Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Anyone in the waiting room?

Yeah. Get started. Um I call this uh meeting of the pling to order. No more remarks today. Uh would anyone like to um request a vote to add or modify agenda item? Okay. Um we have any minutes? Um no reports, no correspondences. So we can jump straight to the business of the day, which is our public hearing, 26 Main Street, which change of use. Um can I get a motion uh to open the public hearing? I'll make a motion to open the public hearing on 26th Street. Okay.

A second. All in favor? I I All right. Um I'll go ahead and read the notice into the record.

Please take notice that the planning board of the village of P Spring will hold a public hearing pursuant to 13416.1 and 13417mm of village law on Thursday, March 26th, 2026 at Village Hall. Uh members of the public are invited to attend uh the meeting in person at Village Hall or via video via conference. Planning board will consider the application by Bailey Simpson. Uh the owner of the of the property is Joseph uh the game Jr. Um the subject property is native 48 48.12-1-58 on the tax map is at 26 main Cold Spring, New York in the business B1 district as well as villages historic district. The applicants proposed change of use from retail to dance studio requiring site plan review uh and parking table of village law. Uh the planning board will consider all verbal uh and or written statements from all persons interested in the proposed application in very clear strike above. Planning board will also consider such further relief necessary. All right. Um administrative stuff um has the notice been timely published in the official newspaper?

Yes. Okay. Um, and I believe we have um proof of mailing to affected parties here. Main 13 Maine 21 main 15 Maine 25 Main 37 Maine 43 Maine the street and main 14 a lot I guess depot square because it's on the other side tights on the other side of the railroad tracks

that's a huge property and that I didn't want to I didn't want the applicant to notify one part. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. That looks good. Thank you for the work. Um we have a um an affidavit of signage. We have a copy. It wasn't it's not signed until Yeah. Um and have we received any public comment either in writing, email or person? No public comment.

Okay. I don't think we've made a secret determination for this yet. Um I think we can u someone like toert that it's a type two. Uh sure. A type two action under Seager. Do you want me to? Yes, sir. Sure. This is a type two action under Seager. Uh second that motion. Add a motion. That motion. Uh I think we actually only have to state it, right? We don't have to Yeah, you don't really take it back. Save it.

Um all right. Uh applicant, welcome to the public hearing. Uh the goal of this uh meeting is to explain to the public who is not here but maybe they'll watch later on YouTube um uh what the purpose of uh the application is and uh to help us understand what you're doing and uh the potential impacts it might have on the village. So

okay so the proposal is to change 26 Main Street from retail to a dance studio. There's there will be no uh remodeling of this space. It can already operate as a dance studio. We'll be teaching ballroom and Latin dance uh to small groups, typically private lessons. So, myself plus anest and then we'll have two other people in their room at most business hours. And then we'll offer group classes as well for small groups of people. How this may affect the village? Great vibes, people learn how to dance, fun place, all positive things.

Great. Uh, what are the hours of operation going to be? Monday through Friday 12 to 9 and then on Saturday 10 to 2. Yeah. Hold on.

And I believe we have um an exterior site plan. Um, I know you've taken taken pictures of where the parking is and um the trash. It would be good um to actually note on I think it's noted on here right now. Maybe correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think there's a is trash noted on here right now. No, it'd be good to you can just literally draw it in and and submit it to the to the to the um alert. Um it' be good to have that on record and um and also um kind of you can also draw just note that where the parking spaces are on here as well.

Okay. Um, we have some pictures of the entryway and uh their exterior lighting. There's an extra the front next to the entry entryway photos.

Yes, I see it. Um a reminder to the board that one of the things because the use is not covered um by the parking table explicitly, it will be up to us to determine the um number of required spaces. So, um, keep that in mind when you're, uh, asking the the applicant questions.

And I did bring the parking table from the code. So, if anybody wants to see what other uses require, I have that if you want to take a look. Do we have the site plan for when it became brass monkey? Uh, presumably we do. Yeah. Is that is that from the brass monkey? because I thought theirs actually had like colorcoded parking spots and uh I don't recall. Okay.

How many square feet is the building the space? Well, I know the downstairs is a little over 1,000 square ft. Okay. But there's the building. There's an apartment upstairs that might be an additional thousand. It only use for my right about 1,000 ft for the downstairs. How many parking spaces does,000 square feet need? Well, that that's up to you guys to decide on. Yeah,

we just Do we have to give a number or do we just have to say we're happy with that? Does I mean you you do have to to give a number. It doesn't have to

be zero, right? Well, this thing says that there's space for five. Well, this would be a time where you can you can you want clarifications or

And here those five spots are stacked, right? There's space for five for five cars, pardon me. And the next um mention you have is two spots are stacked shown behind the Volvo. I see those two spots are for Eric and I, not the public. And then there's an additional four spots. Okay. Around the building. So yeah, I don't think we normally distinguish between like our parking Yeah, it doesn't matter as long Oh, it's total. It's just total. Yeah. Yeah. Then there's 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 eight.

Yeah. If that includes like the parking spots that are right there for like there's four even in the lot. I I personally don't think there needs to be too many spaces. I think that that would be definitely enough for what I see. If it's if we wanted to say five, I'd be fine with that. If you wanted to say it might be it might be useful for folks to think about you know forgetting what's available um just going through the exercise of for the use of a dance studio. What what do folks think is an appropriate number of spaces to service that without putting undue burden on the village

and and so just for reference um most of the uses that are listed in the code require one or two per thousand square feet. Mhm. I would think that people going to a dance studio would would a lot of couples would be going. I think there would be one car for a couple. I don't think it's going to be a big uh it doesn't look like a big studio. So that's why I say, you know, I think that, you know, five or under would be fine for me, but that's just my thought. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I've seen thinking four.

I was thinking four, too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I think fewer, but you know, fine. I think uh I would I would be probably at most two. That's five. Something else that might factor into is its location on Lower Main Street where you don't have the same uh parking demand like you do up here. So, should we go with three? I'm good with two. I mean, I I'm just saying if but since they had five, I only said five for that reason because I don't want them. Well, I just remember from grass monkey they had a big spot back there.

Yeah, I'm good. She's the number two's good with me. I can note my pen that I brought this time. Um I I have the overseas purchases are being stored and unpacked. Oh, I must have not removed that from brass monkey. Packages arriving. Okay.

Sorry. Thanks for catching that. Um if uh when you are uh submitting um updates to this one, you could also just submit this one with the total square footage calculated for All right. Any more questions from folk from um we're going to open the meeting to public comment now. Do

we have anyone eagerly waiting to come online? some juice here.

Okay. Okay. No written comment. No one here to make a public comment. Um, yes. If someone would like to make motion to to uh close public public comment on the record. I move that we close the public comment on 26 million. Second. All in favor? I.

All right. Um, this is pretty straightforward. Um, it's returning to previous use. uh plenty of parking from my perspective. I think in our previous suggestions we said um two seemed like a reasonable requirement for this use. Um we also discussed uh updating a couple of the um documents. Uh so I think those would be kind of the the approval would be conditioned on the on the village receiving um both the total square footage here and uh this updated with garbage and parking. Yeah.

And uh does the board want to include as well uh the usual conditions approval from HDRB as necessary and uh payment of any uh fees and just Yeah. Who does signage? Who approves signage? Have you come up with something? Have you? Depending on what it is, it it is HDRB or um it is subject to the uh to the signage code in which case uh it would be kind of like the building. Okay.

We haven't submitted uh for signage yet. are still going back and forth with a company to get some ideas and then we'll be submitting that. So hopefully, okay, depending on what that is, if it if it needs to go before the HTB uh historic district board because that's that um this approval will be conditioned on their on their approval. So we can be done with this part, but I won't be able to give you the thumbs up until that is uh approved and I have that in writing. Okay, for this a heads up. Okay. Um, what was your timetable for uh opening?

We were hoping for and I was hoping for April. Uh, but I need to get the sign approved. Correct. Okay. Well, you have to get it approved. You you depending on what signage you choose, you may need to get it approved. Just all signed. No, no. We could put something on the window. Yes. Okay. So, if I submit that, would this be like that? Yes. Cool. I can do that. Yeah. Really, all that means is this um doesn't approve any signage that would be subject to HDRB approval.

Okay, I can definitely do that because that's something we want to do anyway to do the window. Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. So, a photo uh and like a a like even just a design and description would be sufficient but just something that kind of makes it so that if you do something very different we can we can say what you're describing okay yeah that's easy enough I'll submit that with everything uh um any other comments folks.

No, it was a dance studio. It became retail. It's going back to a dance studio. Yeah. It should all be that easy.

Yeah, it should. All right. Um just we have a number of conditions here. Um I will make that would be best. All right. Um, I'll make a motion to um conditionally approve uh this application subject to the following conditions. Um uh the updates um specified uh to add square footage to the floor plan, total square footage to the floor plan, the uh garbage and parking locations on the site plan. um that the applicant provide uh signage detail or approval from the HDRB um and payment of all fees and escros to the village. That's it. Move it up.

That's the end. Okay, I'll second it. All in favor? Hi. Hi. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Good luck. Good job, everyone. Um Bye. All right. So, um, did, uh, did everyone get a chance to read or at least scan, um, 134-12? Yes. Yes. I I read a good bit of it. I did not complete all of it, but I scanned most of it. Okay. After. Yeah.

I think I think there are probably a couple things that I don't There's a lot here. I think I don't, you know, we don't have to bite it all all off at one. Um, I thought maybe it would be useful for me to talk through the structure of the chapter and um, and then maybe we could drill into specifically the process. There's a there's a nice um, flowchart that we have and we have Jonathan here who can help clarify uh, any of the pieces because it is um, an extensive process. uh uh a lot of this uh chapter I made recommendations for. So now I'm not seeing I'm seeing exactly how much trouble I've made.

Is there some document that this was like based off of? I mean it's very specific about like the percentage of one single family homes, two family. not based on a particular document, but the the village board hired a planner uh to advise uh and provide a lot of um kind of detail and inspiration from other other codes and and things like that. So, okay. But yeah, when you pointed that out, I thought I was oddly specific. Between f like not more than 10% but at least 5%. I'm like, okay. Well,

yeah. Yeah. So, all right. Um I'll I just want to say um I had the opportunity to watch The Walkable City, which I think was a great compliment to looking at the code at the same time. Yes. Yeah. I watch in harmony. Yeah. you if you have a chance to watch it. Yeah, definitely watch it. I think like the maybe we we could talk about that for a second before we dive into the code. I think

um I think you you will see a lot of the concepts that were covered in that talk covered here in the code. Um a lot of the underlying planning philosophies that drove the talk also drove the design of this chapter. uh and uh which is great. I mean I think that like the best case scenario is that we have um a uh planner involved in this project that is already predisposed to be aligned with the with the objectives of the code and I think um uh so definitely encourage you to watch it. I think um that there are things in there that are useful

um they're use useful for me um in that like I had intuitions about why why I like certain designs or like that but provided um I guess more of a of a explanation for what about them what specifically about those designs was was compelling. Um all right so the structure of this chapter is um as with a lot of a lot of uh structure of code basically it starts off by trying to set the stage like what are we talking about what is the purpose of the district um it tends to start off with kind of like highle language um primarily because uh you can't cover every detail in a code so it is useful to have Um,

hi. We're here. Yes. Yes. Great. I'm here to meet that guy. The witness or whatever the I live across the street from the house that's being built. Oh, the house being built. Sorry. What house? Or which? Well, I I'm David Gilbert and I live at 505. This is the plan the playing the village of Cold Strength playing board. Phil. No. No, up the hill. Up the hill. Up. But uh that's okay. Easy. Easy to do. You know where you're going? I don't know. Right by which is weird.

It's on It's Cedar. Cedar. It's the corner of Cedar and Maine at the very top of the hill. When you hit the top of the hill, it's on your left. Cedar will be there. Yeah, it's the biggest. You might double check to make sure they're actually meeting tonight. Yeah, they are. Okay. Yep. Yeah. uh probably got two planning boards in it.

Okay. So um but the but the the kind of the utility of having this both this kind of high level purpose and also this kind of more detailed enumeration of the purpose is that um it's it kind of helps us helps define the spirit of what the village intends uh with uh with this uh chapter and with this um with this district in particular. And so, um, if you find yourself and there's going to be a lot of details here, uh, both in terms of how we're going to evaluate the plan, what the process is, and, um, if a thing to do when you're not sure how to feel about a thing is to go back and reread this first part,

and to get a sense of, okay, how does it kind of compare with what the code suggests is the intent behind it, right? Because like you can have something that meets the letter of the law but doesn't meet the intent of the law, right? And that's that is part of the space with in which we operate, right? Uh we take two legally allowed implementations and help judge which of the two is more closely aligned with the spirit of the law. Okay? So you can use these first chapters as a as a way of doing that. This first part of the chapter as a way of doing that.

And I just to your point I sort of underlined it's um 13433 C. It says provisions of this section contradict contradicts or is inconsistent with the provision of the village of Cold Spring code. The provisions contained in this section shall govern and prevail. Yeah. that that's exactly what you

that's I would say that's that is a an additional clarification that um that this is anything that is specific in here is meant to be specific and overwriting anything else that that exists. So like there's references to parts of this being governed by like different structures are governed by bulk requirements with respect to residential old or business one. Uh, but if for some reason there's something in here like with the with the cottage courts that specifies a different bulk dimension. Mhm.

Cottage courts aren't mentioned literally anywhere else in the code. So uh they they may represent dimensional and I don't remember but they may represent dimensional requirements that that are different or contradict what is in RO in the in the general code but they would hold precedent because the idea is this is a more this is a narrower and more specific scope.

Okay. Um, all right. So, uh, so we have the intent, uh, the uses and density authorized is a little bit, we're kind of like we're winding our way to being more detailed, right? Like, so, uh, we're the uses and densities authorized is kind of describing what where are you? Are you C? Same page. Yeah.

So, uh, basically, we're kind of winding our way. We're starting to describe, okay, what are actually the uses that are allowed here? um what are the what are the densities of that of those usages that are allowed here because it's a large it's a large um it's a large area and um is trying to define um the densities and the and the kind of then it's a mixeduse uh um area like define what are the what are the uses and how uh do they relate to one another in terms of of percentage wise and um and uh I think that's all So um then on uh the following page you've got um some kind of addendum bulk standards. These are like I was saying before like uh these are ways of of additionally defining forms in the district and bulk standards for those forms that would be in addition to uh the bulk standards defined in at the end of the v at the end of the code. Um the um you see this little picture here on uh

35. Yeah, this is page 35. Yeah. So you you see this kind of this is the closest thing we got to the formbbased code. Uh there was uh so formbased code is kind of like it's almost like uh I think some of the most extreme examples are like just like a page of diagrams and which basically just explains exactly what you know what what a lot is allowed to look like.

Mh. Um so there is some instruction here specifically for the the multif family uh and uh but that's that's the extent of it here. So we'll we can use that as a guide for evaluating uh those. Um there's a few other details about streetscapes and and kind of the ratios there. Um the lot of a lot of the the kind of the middle of this chapter is devoted kind of exhaustively to uh a very detailed process that is defined um and standards uh that is defined. So uh basically the the process is defined and you can see like a short

um description in the the the chart that's that's detailed here that details

kind of the two uh two well I guess there's three three kind of u uh flows that that exist for different parts different phases of the approval process. Um and uh a lot of this is is describing that in more detail about how that about both what is pro to be provided at different stages and what the stages are. Um the probably the thing that is most uh well in addition to understanding what that process is like um probably the thing that is um most important for you to be familiar with is uh the fourth uh what is this basically page starting on page 42 to was the standards for special use per approval. So this is unlike most other applications that we have and most other parts of the code. Uh this kind of section might be a single paragraph if it if it exists. Uh you can see this is um longer than a paragraph. In fact, it is see half a page about four. Holy god, we're in the 46 or you include the site the final site plan review and approval. It's basically like almost eight eight eight to 10 pages

something like that. So it's very specific in um the standards we are we are meant to apply uh for approval and it's and it's I think the intent of that is to make it is is to kind of because of how critical this bot is to the village um to specify a process that um the village board and then eventually the villagers who uh who participated in the public hearing for the approval of this section. Um believed was going to be uh was going to govern um the navigation of a site plan. Development and navigation of a site plan with the with the developer in a way that was going to um ensure the success and the and the the contribution the development of the site to the village. So there's a lot there's a lot here. Um and the I think the intent is not to give us uh busy work but but to define a process that if we walk in in a rubric that if we apply faithfully uh that the village believes will result in you know a a a good outcome for the the development of the site. Um there's a lot of detail in there. I think it is worth kind of reading over like the different dimensions of of things that are going to be applied. I think we have a couple things to call out that um there is a prohibition of fossil fuel um in the uh equipment associated with homes at all. So um they only do they have to be all electric and they have to meet certain energy standards. they have

to be certified as such. Um there are a lot of public hearings uh in various parts of this and a lot of explicit participation across uh boards. Probably the thing that is most important to call out in terms of the collaboration across the boards is in addition to inviting comment and participation from the village board uh and other boards that are in the uh that are associated with the village. Um we are required to um respond to every question uh comment that is made by the other boards

uh in writing uh with justification. So that will be um you know we'll get a little bit of what the uh what the fewer trail folks got uh last year. Uh we'll do we doing a similar process to make sure we'll do that. But I'm I'm hoping we'll able to maybe um address the the questions with a little more veracity. Yeah, there's some specifics in the right that there's like we open it up for them to respond to us and then they have like what was it 60 days or something to to put their things to they have 60 days to to um to write into comment and then uh

and then we have our time to respond to whatever it is for them. Yeah. Yes. And can I just ask this stuff not besides just the boards, but it's going to be it's going to be one seeker one, right? So then we take one. So we're going to have to have that's that's going to be the states going to going to have to be involved in that, right? Well, so it's going to be up to you guys to decide whether you issue a negative declaration or a positive de declaration. And if you do issue a positive declaration, then that's a whole process in and of itself that you guys haven't done before.

So that that's the other not saying that we will, but I'm just saying that that's besides the local boards we might have to deal with with with the state or whoever. No, it doesn't necessarily involve the state. I mean, there might be some approvals that are part of that like uh just for example, you know, some projects they have to get approval from New York State DOT to put up a traffic light. Uh there's county department of health approvals, sometimes DEEC approvals, that kind of stuff, but the state is not going to uh run the the the secret. That's still going to be you guys. Okay.

And you you'll of course have support. I mean, you're not even going to review this without an engineer to to give you lots of comments. Okay. Good. Right. the the the secret determination triggers a richer process by us to look at deeper basically look deeper at different aspects of the of the um proposal

um and I don't know like are there because we haven't gone gone through it before is there um an additional rubric by which we need to apply to what basically what we're discovering in the in that in that type in the process that we engage with the type two uh I I don't know if I quite understand the well like so so we we determine it's type sorry a type one action uh that triggers a deeper a deeper look in different in different aspects in terms of environmental impact

and uh given that we've not gone through that before in terms of the standard to hold on like what is found in that process. Is it still entirely up to us about how we feel about that information or is it is it is that I guess maybe the question is like is the type one action primarily just trigger additional discovery and and at the end of the day we're still just making the same decision we were before just like now uh everyone agrees that it's that this is an appropriate situation to bring to bear additional scrutiny.

Yeah, pretty much. And so really the the distinction starts with with the um most actions you're just going to get a short form EAF. With a type one, the applicant has to submit a long form EAF, which is like 10 or 11 pages and they're going to have to check whether um you know any of the various categories are likely to have a significant adverse environmental impact. And then an engineer is going to have to look at that and give you guys guidance on, you know, what those impacts really mean because obviously

none of us in this room can say just how significant the impact on storm water is going to be. You know, you really have to be an engineer to to know that. And and your engineer will give you reports and comments on that and then it'll be up to you guys to to make the call based on that. the builder bundle these. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just like normal like you know basically that's what the escro is for. Okay.

Um the final bit of the chapter really concerns itself with defining this kind of new new for us kind of uh construction which or site uh a lot type

is the um the cottage court. Um, so the idea behind a cottage cord is that it's just a number of small uh individual units that kind of ring around a common a common green. Um, it's meant to to uh be inexpensive uh and accessible and uh often um and communal and communal. Yeah. Um, cool. Well, um, John, I didn't I realize I didn't ask you to think about this beforehand. Uh, do you feel comfortable like walking through the general like paces of the process?

Yeah. Do you want to go through the chart? Yeah. Would you mind uh scrolling to that page on the screen? What is it? Um, it's 38. Has anyone voiced a idea of how long this whole thing is going to take? Well, I think 134-38. So, it might be page because it starts it can take a varying amount of time depending on depending on the feedback and what's discovered and how we ask them to change stuff, but

and and the secret will be a big governing factor. If it's a negative declaration, um, somewhat shorter. If it's a positive declaration, that process by itself, uh, yeah, it's going to take some time. I mean, I've kind of just because of the amount of the amount of public hearing and the back and forth and the amount of review we're going to have to do, I've been kind of mentally ballparking. Wow. I was thinking more like six to 12 months. as a ballpark. I think probably even 12 months would be on the the lower side. Not that you're necessarily reviewing this at every meeting. Yeah. Yeah. So they could put a shovel in the ground or

just for you guys from the time you get the application to the time that you issue. Uh yeah, they have they I think once the approval is done, they have up to a year to break ground. So they can, you know, if it makes they're still trying to get their, you know, ducks in a row operationally maybe, I don't know, maybe different times of the year where it's better to do this kind of work. And plus all the outside permits like DO, DOT, that kind of stuff. It's a lot of it's a lot of stuff to have to do. Yeah. Yeah. And we're the ones that make the decision, right? I mean it doesn't get bounced upstairs to the village board.

Well, yeah. Don's going to describe some of the ways in which they participate. Um the village board does not have a say at the end of the day. They they don't have approval right here. They are participating, right? They provide comment. We are required to respond to their comment and justify our comments. But we're the ones that vote on. Yes. Okay. I see. Yeah. Yeah.

Um so the first step will be you know like with any other application you'll get the the application packet along with uh that long form EAF plus presumably with the application you'll get a bunch of engineered drawings and does it before it gets to us normally like the building inspector. Yeah, beforehand. Are they hitting this one too beforehand or is this is this preliminary too early the concept plan stage? Is it too early for the building inspector? I mean, I would think the building inspector will review it. I don't know with how much detail he's going to look at it. Um,

so presumably and ideally the applicant will submit close to everything that you guys need right away. Um, but maybe not. So there's going to be a whole process of reviewing the application to decide whether it complies with every single section in the code and that could take you know a few months just in itself to to make sure that everything has been submitted to even really start the review. Um, so I think the the two darker boxes uh at the bottom are contemplating that process there. And you know, we would hope that a developer going to a project of this scale is going to get pretty close to to complete when they're deployment. You know, if they're submitting an application with no engineered site plan, then you guys don't even really have a place to start. So

yeah, that's what that process is there. um the community involvement in the concept plan design. I'm not exactly sure what that's referring to. Um I think I'm sure they public meeting and so there's a there is a there is a public hearing process but I think this is actually um we're supposed to organize uh who is public

there is a public hearing but before the before the public hearing there is um the planning board shall include a plan for involvement by relevant stakeholders in the concept plan development as well as through ongoing feed feedback and plan development through the site plan review stage. So I think it's up to us to determine what the form of that is. Uh but it you know I guess it needs to meet some standard of like you know that we we clearly attempted to and we we should like there's no reason not to but just uh um yeah I think that's we basically it's up to us to come up with how we want to engage engage the community there. Mhm.

Um and so once you guys have decided that the application is complete, not necessarily that the the plan is in its final form, but at least that the application is complete, then you'll have um well actually first you'll make your secret determination to issue the the positive or negative declaration. Uh and then you'll hold a public hearing on the concept plan itself. And just like any other public hearing, the public can come and comment and give you guys feedback. And I think with a project like this, we can expect that the public hearing is going to be well attended and probably last more than one or two meetings. Yeah. Um I would say so.

And uh I know the the code obligates you guys to give written feedback to the other boards. Uh, I doubt it requires you to give written feedback to public comments, but um I don't think so. It might be something you want to consider. I know the village board did that with the um the zoning amendments. Uh but that can be a pretty ownorous process. So, something to think about.

Uh the next step, the planning board's review of the special permit standards and public hearing. I think that's really just um refining the the plan further and you know back and forth with the applicant to see if what they're proposing really fits with the intent of the code. Um because at this point you're just reviewing the the special permit which is not an approval you guys have actually done before. So before you even get to site plan approval, the board is deciding whether really what's proposed is appropriate for the property and fits within the the spirit and intent of the PUD. So before you even really get to the the nitty-gritty of how it's going to be laid out, is the general concept of what's proposed appropriate? And obviously to do that you have to have some kind of a concept plan because you can't just make that decision in a vacuum based on an idea. Um

like graphic studies and stuff like that those haven't been done at this point. Well so they they may be uh to to get to your secret determination.

Okay. Uh so then the HDRB, the village board, maybe the ZBA, they get some kind of time and opportunity to to comment issue you guys their written comments. You guys will respond to that. Um and then at that point, if the public hearing's closed, uh you can vote on the special use permit and like a preliminary approval of the concept plan. And so again, you know, a lot of that process is going to be dependent on the secret determination because if it is a positive declaration, then they're going to have to go through that.

What do you mean by preliminary approval versus approval? So, uh, an approval of the the concept plan. So, yes. Right. Okay. But straight approval of the concept. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Um, and if there's a positive declaration, you go through that whole process. Um there's several different components but basically the first part is scoping where you guys decide you know what is really because the sorry let me back up the the document that is ultimately prepared as part of the environmental review of a positive declaration is uh an EIS an environmental impact statement and the scoping um is how is what you guys decide needs to be included within that impact statement. So, you know, maybe it's got uh some impacts, but they're not really significant impacts uh like on wildlife or something. So, you guys decide that's not really within the scope of of the impact statement. So, that's a whole process in and of itself that's got a public hearing. And once you figured out the scope, then it's up to the applicant to come up with a plan essentially for how they're going to mitigate all these significant impacts. Um, presumably because you're you're asking them to evaluate the impact of the general motions of like like you're not you're not contemplating a specific instantiation yet. Exactly. Because you're still working with the concept plan.

Yeah. I mean, you have to be pretty close to specific. Maybe not every last detail ironed out, but uh so like you know the like for example if if uh I'm trying to remember my recollection is that the the EPA has specific requirements that they have for that site to be developed. Mhm. And in terms of like what like how how deep you go and what you do at the top soil and stuff like that and like that would be a kind of thing that we would would say we need a more detailed report on. Yeah.

What other what are those requirements and what are you going how are you going to fulfill them? Right. Yeah. in, you know, maybe with some of the impacts, there's not really any easy way to mitigate them other than reducing the scope of the project to to mitigate those impacts. So, if you do a traffic study and the traffic study finds that the village streets are just going to be packed uh with traffic, then there may not be any way to to really reduce that traffic because there's only so many places you can put up traffic lights and turn lanes and that kind of stuff. So yeah, that's all part of the the seeker process. Uh do you mind scrolling down? Hold on.

That's a little bit or a lot?

That's good right there. Um so once they the applicant gets their special use permit approval and their concept plan approval, um then they go to uh site plan approval like you guys do with your other applications. I don't think we've really had other than the subdivision on East Bellev, I don't think we've really had any projects that involve construction um or major construction. We had depot square um but same idea where the applicant's going to submit a bunch of plans from engineers. The planning board's engineer is going to review them, give comments, give you guys guidance, and you'll go through the the site plan process. through in a lot more detail than you know you would for most of just your change of use applications because you're really going to be looking at where the streets are going to be, the parking, the lighting, and granted the the formbbased code uh kind of helps with that. It's not like you're just saying to the applicant, all right, you design it and we'll give you feedback. They have a pretty narrow set of standards that they have to design the project by. So

yeah, same idea there where they submit an application, you guys give them feedback, you hold a public hearing. In this case, again, the other boards will issue their comments, you'll issue responses, and same thing. You get to the point where you're ready to to vote on an approval and we'll do a much lengthier written resolution than uh we the the the update to the seeker process, like what kind of updates happen there? Like you're not going to go you can't go from like a type one to a type two.

No. No. So it would really be if between the concept plan approval and the site plan whether anything changed to the extent that you would have to do an amended a determination of significance or amend the findings of the the EIS.

I see. So, so like in a like as an example, if we if we approved a concept plan that had a certain uh density and the actual one like increased it by 10%. But we were already kind of at a threshold that we might say, "Look, we need we need to understand exactly how this this change is actually going to impact." Yeah.

Yeah. So, if you were to issue a negative declaration initially, um maybe you would just issue an amended negative declaration that concludes that despite this change, the impacts can still be mitigated. Uh maybe it pushes it over the threshold and now it's a positive declaration. maybe it was already a positive declaration and because of the changes you have have to mitigate the impacts uh in a slightly different manner, something like that. So, it's just checking back in to make sure that your original secret determination and review is is still applicable to what's now being proposed. But we could always push that back to them, the applicant, right, and say, "This is going to push you into a positive declaration. Do you want to continue with this? you want to work with us to go.

Yeah. And presumably they would not want to do that. They would rather adjust the project to avoid having Right. I just want to make sure that that's that would be an option. Yeah. Um so I think that's pretty that rounds out the the site plan approval. Can I can I ask a question about the the um HDRB where where they are separate up here with their comments that come in? Sure. um for I know there's a certain um designation for Main Street and visible from Main Street. Um

obviously they have say over what goes on on the village proper but um is there anything that I know it says that we would supersede anything that that if we they're just making recommendations to us, right? They're not holding us to a certain No, I I think the idea is to get their input early in the process so that if the applicant does go to them afterwards, the project doesn't have to be redesigned because it's something that the HDRB just can't approve. Okay. All right. Thank you.

And then do you mind scrolling over to the left just slightly, Abigail? Um, John, I'm curious like the I'm It's obviously laid out here, so we'll be doing it, but I'm curious how if you have experience with how the public tends to understand the fact that there are like so many different types of public hearings. Like I would imagine if I'm just like not paying much attention, I was just like, "Oh, I hear there's a public hearing about this development. I'm going to show up." But how do how do people deal with that? How do they help the public along about what the purpose is? Is there a lot of preamble in those meetings to help instruct the public on how to understand what's going on?

I mean, I think it's always kind of a challenge because it, you know, you don't do this on a regular basis. It's a pretty complicated process and people often don't hear about it until it's progressed further along. And um one thing that I find tends to be a point of friction is the secret determination by law is supposed to be made before there's any public hearing. So sometimes members of the public will come to the public hearing, you know, having a strong opinion about what the secret determination should be, but it's already been made.

Yeah. Yeah. And because of that, sometimes you boards open the public hearing beforehand, but then you'll have people saying that, you know, the board was wrong for doing that because the law says that they're not supposed to hold a public hearing until after. And if they open one, there is at least a kind of escape valve written here, which is the community involvement. Yeah, that is technically before we do the secret determination. So, uh I think that may be a thing for us to consider when we're structuring that of like um maybe we can take some um that's only

kind of backsolve some of the structure for that from the elements that we're going to be using to determine the secret to make sure that if we can kind of prompt the public to bring issues that are that would impact that determination to the to the forefront early. And it's a little tricky too because you know I guess the question is do you invite the public to the meetings you know really advertise the meetings and ask them to come but tell them they really can't comment yet because it's not a public hearing. Um I don't know that's that listen for grumbles when the state

I mean I think my my impression of this is that this is like maybe this is wrong but my impression is that the community that planning board sponsors community involvement in concept plan design. My impression is it's something similar to what uh the village board did for the talk basically like you know it was Kathleen was running basically running the meeting explaining to people what were there and then handed the mic over and uh and uh the develop and and the the planner gave gave his talk. So I think that there's it is that's that's a probably an example of a of a facilitated bit of community engagement, right?

Yeah. As I've worked on projects in the past where the the board opened the public hearing prior to the secret determination, people came and spoke literally for hours. Uh they didn't get the secret determination that they wanted. The project uh got approved against their wishes and they sued the planning board and said that they opened the public hearing too early. even though all it did was give them more opportunity to speak and Sure. Yeah. voice their opinion. So, it's it's kind of a lose-lose.

Could Could there be, you know, something as Jesse suggested, but maybe on the other side where we just hold meetings, but it's not letting the public speak. Just explaining our process and what it's going to be from from point A to point B all the way through and say, "This is how we're handling it." and just want to be, you know, forthright. Just make Jonathan speak for two hours like everyone was gonna be happening. We just kind of hang hang back and Yeah. And I think we do that and we could put something out and say as discussed at the beginning of this process and then maybe put it on the website and refer people to that when we do that. I I don't know. I'm just

thinking about how we could navigate through because we might get accosted at food town if we Henry know it happens, you know, if we if we're not happening. Yeah. Regardless. Yeah. No, but I'm saying but it it would be good and say we've already discussed this and we told you what our plans are and and it's all on the website and and we're gonna and we know you have a lot of thoughts. Keep those thoughts in mind. Write them down. When the public hearing opens, you can submit them. You can come and speak. Does the fact that it was an EPA super funds site play into this or do we we just say well it's been okayed so that's not our

that's that was the example I was trying to give earlier which is the APA defined some guidelines about how it could be developed okay and I'm and I was saying that part of part of a deeper investigation on our part might be that we want to we want to better understand what those requirements are and how they are going to go about fulfilling them, right? And then evaluate how they feel about the how they're going to fulfill them, right? So, um, and I think it's ultimately on the applicant. I think the planning board is essentially going to be saying, you know, we'll we'll approve this, but that doesn't supersede anything that the EPA has determined. So, it's up to you to make sure that you're complying with

That's true. Though I though I think my my feeling is that the village ha it's has a vested interest in understanding what those what those process and approvals might be not not only to know what the applicant is planning on doing with respect to them but to know if we need additional assurances beyond what is required and you guys don't want to have to go through the process twice because you approve something and then the applicant realized it doesn't comply with the EPA's guidance and they have to come back. So, I think it's in everyone's interest to to get it all sorted out.

And we could set guidelines during the construction process as well, right? Because we can say that these have to be adhered to visit independent somebody or something to make sure that they're adhering to these. Yeah. Yeah. You'll probably have pages of conditions. Yeah. I'll have to be talking for a while and reading up all the conditions at the end. Yeah. I think you said three conditions for that project. That was one of the easiest ones. Yeah. It'll probably take a couple meetings just to to iron out the conditions. Yeah. Couple meetings just to read them. Well, that's it. Yeah.

Um, and so this last step, uh, I guess is a little bit, um, unusual, but, uh, I'm not not exactly sure what the the thought is between like this final approval versus the the the prior approval for per for site plan. Um, and then the the HDRB will have to go through, I guess maybe the intent is for the HDRB to approve first and then they come back again uh to the planning board for final approval rather than how we do it now where you guys give your final conditional approval and then send applicants off to the HDRB. Did the village have any kind of representative? Perhaps the um code enforcement officer so that once the dust settles and you start digging things up and you're starting to actually build to make sure that uh the developer is in compliance.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. They should. Oh, but it should be somebody one of somebody that represents the village, right? Yeah. So, it would be the code enforcement officer. So, they'll have to um before they issue any certificates of occupancy for any of the the structures, um they're going to have to ensure that what's been built complies with exactly what's been approved. Do they wait until what once it's built or do they go to the site and kind of see what's going on before you know everything is done? I would think they would they would go regularly before

it's probably a like like a lot of constructions where you know you finish the electrical but so you need to get that inspected before before they put up the walls otherwise you can't see the electrical kind of thing. Yeah. And that was my point with the condition that I said that that I think that's going to be one of the main things that we really got to do because it's not just when it's done. It's if if this site is being dug up, we need to Well, they're going to trench for the utilities at a minimum, right?

And they've got to get Yeah. per all separate permits for all that work. And I think another safety valve um in that regard is I don't know specifically what the code says for this but um site plan approvals and especially use permits do expire and often it's not very long after the approval maybe a year. So in other words if they don't start on construction let's say within a year of your approval they have to come back for an extension request maybe they only get one or two and then they have to come back for reapproval. So that way if they delay the project for whatever reason and two or three years down the road the conditions in the village have changed, you know, there's there's still um some checks and balances on what's being built.

It's not a blank check for them to come back in 10 years and and build what was approved now. Yes. If anyone's uh anyone daunted by the by the process and now is the time to retire best joined the sport to make sure we the process. Yeah. So, um Well, yeah. So, this will be this will be a long process. I mean, the good news is that means that at no point should anyone feel rushed,

right? um you know it's going to take a while to get through all these pieces and um uh it's going to be I think you know take take the contentiousness that we got from the um the three apartment application and extend you know garage thing extend it over a year and uh had 10 times as many people. Yes. With 10 times as much anger.

Yeah. So, there's a lot to navigate here. I think that, you know, this is stuff that we'll have to, you know, kind of help the public dig part of our job is to help the public digest this stuff. Um, that includes the process and the project. Um, but it's also to help them understand what are what are our reasonable expectations for them in terms of engaging with this. The fact is it is a private parcel. It is legally allowed to be developed. Doesn't mean it can be developed in any way that the that the developer wants, but

it is allowed to be developed. And so, um, our job is to help navigate the concerns of the developer and the village and the villagers. Um, and so this is not a this is, you know, isn't a process where somebody's going to come in and and say, well, I don't think it I I don't think it should happen or I think the village should make a, you know, uh, a geothermal plant there. It's like not that's not that's not that's not what this process is about. And and you know, you we're going to have people are going to come to this from all sorts of angles, with all sorts of of of expectations. a lot of them are not going to understand even the ways in which the village code has changed in the last few years. I think um even at the meeting the other night uh where they where the where the planner developer I was sitting next to somebody who was saying you know that that uh you know that there was going to be it was going to be basically a giant parking lot because of the way the old the way the code was. And I was like, well, the village could actually change pretty substantially, you know, three years ago. So, um I I don't I don't think there's a chance of that happening. And um so, uh we'll have to go slow and with some compassion, but but also with some, you know, try to bring some clarity and some certainty um to the process as well.

And I I should have said before, Abigail, we can end uh the public portion of the meeting. No, we can keep going, by the way. Yeah. What is your plan personally as far as these uh events