Historic District Review Board - Regular Meeting

Okay. 137 Main Street. Please come on down and tell us all about your application.

I like to put it together, right? That's right. Thanks.

But I'm so I recently opened the canvases mastery 137. The issue seems to arise where there is a distinction between our state campus regulations and historic review board desires. So I spoke to the mayor about this. She did not want me to put up a blacked out area. a list of several other stores in the area. Basically, there's different ways of blocking out. It's illegal for people under the age of 21 to view cannabis. So as a result, most cannabis stores either have a vestibule, where there's an indoor door that's blocking view, or it's frosted glass or curtains. So rather than get into an issue, I put up curtains with the sign basically as a privacy screen so that nobody could see through to see the canvas. There's no actual canvas displayed in the store from the street unless there's a customer in there and we're handing them or packaging them anything. So normally window can be open and people can see inside, which was the preference Mayor had described, that is the work that you wanted. But the screen has a sign in it. And it basically is, I put it retreat back because I didn't know what the setback was for interior versus un-interior. But trying to out the image from the road, I'd have to frost or black out all So that was always my preference. But like I said, when I spoke to the mayor, she said that that was against the historical rules. So I'm here to come and find a solution. Basically, as long as it doesn't allow kids to see it, that's really what the state cares about. But

So all of this is signage that you want.

It's required.

This is all required.

So I put in the state requires the sign that so when I apply, I had to have an inspection by New York State with these signs. And I have to have a plan for mitigation of crowd control. And I have to have a plan for the signage. the signage one and there's also a crowd control one. So this has all been submitted to the state Office of Cannabis Management and it's all on file as being there. So for me to remove it or change it, I have to change it, but I have to have a plan of what you guys want for me to change it.

Some of these signs, like this image, you have two framed sort of eight and a half by 11 or 11 by 17 documents inside.

So this can be just somewhere in the store. It's a foot within the door on both sides. It doesn't need to be within a foot. It has to be seen by somebody entering the store. So that's policy literally says you can't enter under 21. The line below, I have to display the license that I have for cannabis. So that's all part of the requirements. The doorbell sign, I could remove, but that's part of the mitigation plan, but it would not. So I have to have a crowd control measure so people don't queue up outside. So I discussed it with the mayor and the QR code where people literally just scan the QR, set an appointment, and then they come in. It's been working brilliantly. So that's all part of the requirements. You can see it in the picture from the bottom right there. So that is there. And if I'm going to change that sign, then I need another.

And this sign that I also see is in the window.

So that one's in the window right now. That one actually legally is not the official sign. I do have the sign. I forgot the picture. New York State gives me a sign. I am a legal dispenser. I can swap that one out with the legal sign that I have with the new sign. And then this is obviously, that's the sign that is submitted for the name of the location I have. I'm supposed to have that I'm a legal dispensary, the name of the company, contact information location.

This doesn't exist. It does, it's in there right now.

Well, it's not in there. I built it into a screen that's portable. So it's several feet back from the window. And we cover it with curtains. It's only open when we're open for five hours or six hours a day. It's actually only open when we're operating. It's actually closed and nobody sees it. It's behind curtains all the time.

Okay.

And that was me trying to meet the rules of both. But I would prefer a sign in the window and just blacking everything else out. But I understand that that's not the preference of Goldsman.

There's nothing that says, were you to have a, I understand there's space limitations inside, were you to have a vestibule and then a back chamber? There's nothing that's precluding you from having

I still have to have a sign on the outside. I have to have a sign on the outside.

I would imagine you want that.

I don't really care. We're going to have almost everything. The state requires almost everything electronically when it comes to business and people finding us. They're going to find us on Google. We're just going to have the information out there. So I'm not too worried about anything beyond the legal requirements, both the village and the state. If the sign needs to be changed in size, I'll change it in size. If it needs to be moved, I'll move it. It doesn't really make a difference to me. I just want to meet the criteria.

Well, I couldn't, for example, license New York State. I could go on the sign.

So I could do that, but I still have to have, that's only in place of the legal one from the state. I have to have a state one there. So this will actually be gone. I'll do it tonight and replace it with the official state one. So this will be gone.

Right, so this just gets switched out? Yeah. Or this gets put on there?

No, no, it's switched out. I can't mess with the state one.

I think ideally this information is incorporated, at least in my mind, into us in a neat way, at least at a minimum, you know, the stuff that this text, this text is included in. So you're minimizing, you know, what you have to display publicly in the windows, doors, if it is required that it be there.

Okay.

I guess I am a little confused because What historic district regulations do you feel are not complying?

I don't know the specific regulations. I was just told I can't black out the entire front window, which is what I have to do. So I need to prevent people from outside the store seeing inside the store.

And why is that? Because anyone under age 21 cannot see Canada.

So we have a rule that you can't connect. check the exact numbers but I think if you can't cover more than 30% of your glazed area and your sign work on the exterior of the pod can't be more than half of the width and up to one foot tall something like that so there are some parameters and I think in general those are meant to help consolidate signage and just make for a clean storefront right and I think what we're seeing now is you're trying to get all your required signs up and it's becoming a little bit like billboards poster board. Right. And so I think we want to help you simplify, get signage on the exterior and also provide something that isn't blacking out the window. Um, but also I think on the interior then isn't, isn't like the curtains that you have up now, I think something more, more elegant would probably work, um, to meet that, uh, state mandate. I think that's a little bit beyond our realm, but I think it's the interior curtain, I mean. But as we work on this, maybe we can help talk about some aesthetic options to do that. It sounds like the license, your state, microbrewery, that signage in the new form that it will come in is the done deal. And so it's just a placement. And then I think what I'm hearing from these guys is the sign that's on the door with the hours and the QR code. It's just getting cluttery, and there's a way to simplify that and decouple it maybe from the main sign. Do we like this main sign in general? Do we have issues with this specifically?

Well, the issue that we don't deal with is the message of the sign. We don't really have any. So the question really has more to do with the construction of the sign and how it's installed.

And the size.

And you said that it's set back from the glass? Right now it's three feet back from the glass. Three feet back from the glass. So, I mean, my feeling is that that's not even a window sign. I mean, I think that becomes a question of, from what I heard you say, you're trying to deal with the issue of visibility through the glass.

Yeah, so originally I had it within a foot of the glass, and that's when I got the to tier 18, 3, or 5. So I moved it back to 3, which is about as far as I can get it back without messing with people safely getting it out of the place. That was to basically just circumvent a code violation. But at the same time, it didn't resolve the overall issue. So I do need to have a way of... What's there right now is legally conducive to both, I guess, the clerk view and to the state but it's probably not aesthetically pleasing. So that's why I'm coming here to figure out what to do. My preference, again, is to cross the glass and just put the sign right in the center and call it a day. But I understand that you guys don't want that. So it really comes down to what you guys want and whether it's feasible.

I want to get the line here with this.

Yeah, I mean, even if it's not, I'm wondering if given what's being sold, if in this situation, this small storefront, if plastic glass up to some datum would be more effectively pleasing. And then maybe the three feet that he's lost, he can then use to make a very small vestibule at the door so that when the door is open, there's less of an issue with kids seeing it.

Maybe a curtain door or something like that.

Yeah, like winter. Yeah, something like that. And then, like, from the glass up to six feet. I don't know. Or just because this is getting a little bit.

Yeah. Well, I guess, too, there are two things that we can focus on. One is trying to consolidate some of these signs so it doesn't look like it's just got signs all over the place. Definitely do that. Okay.

Sorry.

Dealing with the issue about the frosted glass and how that window is presented. Is there a sill under the window? Yes. How deep is that?

It's an area of my house, it looks like.

So, in fact, the door is sort of set back.

Yeah, the door is in line with the back of that cell, yeah. Okay.

And the door then lines up with this side? No, not a sign. Another two feet back from there.

Another two feet back from there. Maybe a foot and a half back. I don't remember where it was. I just measured out.

Okay. And what is the design made of?

It was printed on a latex board or plastic board.

Well, I mean, my feeling is that it's actually away from the front of the building.

Does the curtain cover in front of the door as well? That's a concern because the door is glass so you can see in technically. So you have to keep that blocked off too?

The curtain's there because it's hanging from a curtain rod essentially. And so there's curtains that block the side because the signs aren't perfectly there. But we cover all of it at night. So it's completely drawn so nobody can see into the store at all at night. Including the door? No, the front door has its own little curtain. Okay.

Well, it's the curtain for the doors there during the day. Yes. Right. So the only thing that is an issue is really the storefront window.

But for him, when the doors open, the New York State Code mandates that he still can't see it, right?

Yes. So while cannabis is physically being extradited, The door is open.

Oh, and somebody's just walking in and out.

But nobody, the door has to be closed inside the store.

Oh, okay, got it.

Nobody's, you know, it's a locked situation, like nobody actually can enter. The door remains locked all the time, actually.

They have to buzz in to get to the store. I mean, it feels like a sign in the window and the mandated sign, you know, licensed cannabis, New York State, that you need to have in the doorway. feels okay to me so it's kind of working out what is how big the sign is or where it's placed or what if if we were to say frosted glass up to a point does the sign go above that in a clear glazed area so it actually works aesthetically a little bit differently than normal but at least then it kind of like there's a break in the frosted glass and then the language is above

Because I've walked, I know from opening stores, there's a lot to do. And you're trying to manage all these different expectations. But to buy it right now does feel a little informal. And I feel like, given what you're selling, you want it to be a bit more polished. And we'd like it to be a bit more polished. And if we can forego that curtain, then it would help.

Forgive me. The sun, you want the sign to be covered by the curtain when you're not open. I don't care. You don't care if it's not you. Right. Okay. Right now you just have the curtain.

On the window. Yeah. I have to keep closing. And just cross the glass because it's an extra thing to do that we have to do constantly.

I mean, crossing the glass is going to be that like to execute that. Very well as a professional job on an existing piece of glass, unless we started talking about replacing those two panes of glass.

Film carefully applied now.

You can get it that large, you think? Like five feet across?

Yeah, usually it's 48 inches wide and a professional can apply frosting onto glass. But it would have to be professionally done. Yeah.

Right. It's not. It's like, yeah.

Yeah. We can say no, but it's just then what is the, what I was saying is too. And is that, is having translucent film that is more desirable than like looking back to an informal curtain and like this, It kind of dead space in the middle. It's like terribly awkward.

Yeah. It doesn't make any sense. I'm just trying to roll it. I was just trying to call it the best pollution is between the two codes.

Where does it say that you can't use? I can't find it. Yeah. You can't have vinyl. Yeah. More than 30% of them go. Yeah. No, it's no matter what.

We could have the graphics put on the vinyl if we're trying to keep as much glass.

But would it meet the requirements, though, or the state requirements, if it was, say, six feet high and there was still a clear Area above it?

Outside, inside. There's no specifications in the rules for where. Just as long as you can't see it. As long as you can't see it.

So like if you put a ladder.

But like the average person can't see it.

Yeah, that's a good point. Like this is, you know.

Like you'd have to do the entire window? No, no. It's just the bed.

But what would the height be? Well, it's kind of like steps there. So you probably have a foot right off of the sidewalk higher. the top of it clear.

So how high is this window?

The window goes all the way up. That's probably from the two feet of clear space at the top.

So it would be roughly in line with the height of the door. So it would sort of look like a transom window.

The other option would be having the curtain. There's a little window box we established. Having a curtain in the window box. Do you know Wilbur Flowers, Liesl's space across from Barbara and Rue? It's this blue facade with a pink curtain and it's a window curtain. There's other examples, but she is sort of hiding the space and only showing as much as she wants to.

Originally, I had the curtain in the Well, window in that space. And that's when I got hit by the code violation.

Well, to do with, with, with maybe the, I mean, I could be wrong. But in my mind, it in on our end of things, it would be less to do with like the placement of the curtain and more the amount of signage that was placed all over.

Yeah, like, have the curtain set back. Also, right, because it could be on the door so that you have a little bit of you could hide the barcode on a, like on a framed card on the, on the cell or something.

Well, but that's going to be multiple sign.

Well, but it feels different.

Can you add to, so the New York state permit is what is it? It's small. It's probably a foot by six inches. So is there a way that you can incorporate that? I currently have it actually, I think in the side angle of the, of the, in your picture. So like, is there a way where you can incorporate, Nicholas Matsakis, This and this information into a single eight by 11 or some kind of single Nicholas Matsakis, Really small Nicholas Matsakis, If I put all of that in there. But you are Nicholas Matsakis, I mean, this is really big.

Nicholas Matsakis, People are usually standing from like six. And they're probably going to have to walk straight up to the window, which now gets me into people seeing directly inside. So the curtains are not 100%. Again, the frosted glass is by far the best for me because I don't have to worry at all.

Well, the curtain is hung in line with this doorway at the height of the door straight across. You can't see through. You're not going to see.

One straight curtain all the way across.

Exactly. So if you did a solid piece of fabric, you know, all the way across that area. I don't know if that's more exciting, but at least a translucent film. Good to you guys. I don't really care. Yeah.

And then you can hang this, some sort of this sign. I mean, I know, can you put a QR code on that sign?

I can add to the sign or make another sign that's not an issue and add that information on it. I just don't know if it's going to be more...

I feel like this kind of information... with all of this text and this kind of very graphic thing with an already like mandated, this is what the permit looks like. There's no way to change any of that. To me, all of that kind of ugly information belong together in a single spot on the doorway. And if it requires people to take a couple steps up to zoom in on a QR code, I mean, I do it at my house all the time and it's on the TV and you're like, you zoom in and the link still works. So that doesn't, in my opinion, seem overly burdensome, but I think that that information It's not nice to look at, but you need to have it. And so let's try to put it all in the same place in the most kind of discrete, which seems like the door. And then like, like Lauren said, a version of this sign that maybe is, I mean, I don't think that's an issue size wise, but I guess we would have to six square feet. I think six square feet.

Well, the thing is that it was three foot behind the,

We're not talking about it being in this recessed area. The curtain is going to be in line with that doorway. Yes, exactly.

So I will have to now, if I do make it translucent, I now have to, or if I do put a curtain there, I now have to bring those other signs on the sidewalls to add those to it. So now I have the hour sign and the policy sign.

You don't see them when they enter the store. But they're right inside the door.

Yeah, they can see them when they enter the door. They'll open the door and they'll see it.

Yeah. Well, they're there now, so.

They're there now, but the sign's back. So I guess, yeah, I guess they won't.

I don't know if this is helpful. This is a plan view of your store. So you have the stook. And then you have the door that's inset. You have the window with a little window display box. And the squiggly line just north of that is your current curtain. So if you get rid of that, and then you put a curtain just at the end of that window display box. And then you can put things in that. You could put some pretty plants in there. Not all types of plants.

Things that evoke a different type of green leaf. I'm completely fine with that. And I'll work hard. So that's not, well, that's easy for us. So I'll put that there. I will still have to put, because the hour sign was always visible. You need hours.

Yeah, you totally need your hours. That's fair.

So I'll have to incorporate the hour sign somewhere in that section.

Maybe on the door. A lot of people put hours on their door. Yeah, that's a good, definitely on the door.

Okay, so why not combine it with the QR code? Why not?

You're trying to put this in with the permit?

Yeah, they want that one on the big side. But, I mean, I can... Yeah.

I'm thinking this could be with the New York State permit, which is probably about half of a page.

Well, the New York State permit is its own permit. It's own sticker. I can't touch it.

Because right now it's in that frame. Addresses the issue of hours of operation, right? So, I have to display my hours.

appointments so they can actually make an appointment.

The appointment time actually is not the same as the hours of operation. You open up before we take appointments. I know.

Like if I was running a store, I wouldn't want someone to have to sit down and do our code to understand what my hours are.

So I think I know this is inside. It's within the within the first with the notes that I see that you've created. Okay, so people can

Maybe in the side window in that door area. That could be an option. That's really like this wide.

So your permit is half of this. It's the bottom half. And that is a decal that actually sticks like a car registration to the glass. Is that correct?

No, it's flipped upside down. The decal that they give me. So that's my license. I have to have the bottom one. The bottom one doesn't have to be an external license. have to have this has to be visible that's that one's just the authenticity from the village that's the top one and then the one that i don't know if you can see it from your side view picture on your on your computer but in the side of the it's there so it fits like that five inch area so it's like it's only maybe five oh that's already in the little skinny i've had it sitting but i don't have it sitting on the front right now so that has to be there but it takes it was supposed to go into it just leaning there it was supposed to replace that other sign this one So this one can go, is what I'm saying.

But it's in this side glass that we don't see. Oh, OK. So that feels fine. So we don't have to address that, right? It's just, yeah, it was just more a sign.

So what we're asking is, so this is going to go away. Your other thing can stay in that side panel where you already have it. These two could be combined on a smaller sign on the door, the QR code and your hours.

Yeah, the hours are inside right now. I could do that on the door sign.

That's saying you have to be 21 and older.

Yeah, so that's how I was getting around the one that's inside the door. So this information... That one will be, when I combine the sign that you want, which is that one right there, the top one, when I combine that one with the QR code on the one sign on the door, then I don't have to worry about it. But the hours are The sign's going to be bigger. That's really what it should be on the door. But not that much bigger. I think it's an 11 by 17 right now. I could probably get away with like a 16 by 20 and get all that information.

But this policy also has to be...

It has to be seen by somebody entering the store.

So we've established that it could be right inside the door.

It could be right there, yeah. But my goal is to deter 21-year-olds, anyone under 21, from even trying to get in the store.

So is there a world that your hours... the QR code and must be 21 and older and be on a single sign in the window.

On an 8x11?

That it could.

Yeah. Really that it could.

I don't know. You have the option of up to 30% of the glazed area.

But I think basically what we're saying is it has to stay, all of the sign has to stay on 30% of the glazing. And we want to just reduce the number of signs to the maximum of three.

OK. Preferably one in the door window, one in the window, and then the New York state required one on the side.

And a curtain, not a film.

So this is what she's doing. OK. Where it's an opaque curtain, right? Yeah, something like that. And then your sign itself, the interior doesn't ..

My feeling is that if it's three feet back, it's not. So then we're talking about it being a foot back, right? No. Within a foot.

Within that foot.

Within the plane of the door.

Yeah.

No, no. The plane of the, sorry, can I take that back? That door window display, the curtains be here. potentially the signage.

It's 25% of the glass. It's 25, okay, thank you, not 30.

Yeah, I don't know, I think it's 30.

No, it's 25.

Oh, I kept looking up.

It was in the actual... No more than 25% of glass area may be covered permanently.

Okay. But we need to see the sign... The dimensions of the sign and confirm the location.

Dimensions of the sign are two by three. We don't know the dimensions of that glass, but it looks like it's probably six foot tall by five foot across.

So the total width of the store is 11 minus the door, which is 30 inches. So somewhere.

Yeah, more than that. We just want confirmation of that, I think, the exact dimensions for the records, right?

But if it's six square feet, that is, we're talking about 25%, right? One quarter of what was the area that we- We just very roughly-

What are we? More than 30 square feet of glass. OK. But 4 into 30? 24 feet would be the 25% mark.

So I think we just need to be 100% sure that that is the- Or a photo marked up with dimensions showing what you're proposing. would be helpful in labeling the materials of the location.

OK. What kind of material do you need it to be?

I mean, my feeling is that this is an indoor site. This is not an exterior site. So I don't feel like we need just the dimensions.

The dimensions called out of the sign and then also the glass, and then it can be very clearly a pass muster.

And then for the sign in the door, you want me to stick the 25% of whatever the glass is at the door?

Yeah. Well, but as part of your door, don't you have glass on the sides?

No.

I know, but what is to the side light?

That is a very skinny pane of glass.

But I mean, as far as the calculation of 25%, I would think that glass area should be included. Because theoretically, you can have something like the hours of operation as QR code on that side light.

He's going to have the New York State permit, the small one on the other side.

So his total glazing area and the total signage area should be under $25,000.

I'm not going to come close to it. I'm aware of that. On any of the sides.

I mean, for the hours. But you see, the thing is that his permit does not need to be in the window. His permit just needs to be inside the building. So that when he's inspected, he can point to it and say, there it is.

So that'll stay inside the building. But there's one state. It has a QR code from a state that they can look up that it's a licensed location. We'll put that one in the side window. It's really small. It fits there. And then I'll leave the one that's six square feet where it is. Just put it in that first foot. And then curtain, is there a color that I need to go by? So I'll put a curtain. I'll have the other signs that are there all put into one on the door side.

And that should not be a piece of paper stuck to the glass.

Okay.

We should talk about what that is, correct? Good.

Usually people come in for their sign, like their business sign, and then they add all the other stuff after. I mean, some people just have

I can just make it a framed glass piece. All right. What I would like you to do is submit a request or an application for this signage. And we'll take a look at it and see if it agrees with it. Next month is close enough. We can probably vote on it next month. Okay.

In the meantime, if he keeps his existing sign and moves it, forward and to put the curtain up.

If it made the difference to you and it would be better.

It was the code violation that I moved it back. It was originally in that section. So I'm fine with it being there. I just didn't want to break any rules. So I just moved it back to the interior to meet the rules that you were specifying. And essentially, I think it looks better if it's in the window against the window. And I just put a curtain up there. So that's what I'll do.

And then it's about 8 inches, do you think, the window bay?

I'm guessing between 12 and 18, yeah. Yeah, but I'll put it against the glass.

Not the curtain.

The curtain will be in the back. Yeah, and that way the plants will go in front of it.

Is there a requirement for how high to sign it? We don't get into that. That is up to you. What I would request that you do all the calculations, measure the area of the glass and so on. and show where you're putting in various signs and submit an application for that. At least we have a record.

Okay.

All right. Abigail, the stuff I gave you today, do I need to change that now? The COA, the appropriateness stuff, there was supposed to be a to change the application.

You need just an additional drawing.

I didn't know if you wanted me to change the actual narrative.

I'll send you drawings of everything. Thank you. Before you go, can we vote on this now?

If it's 25% or under, that's all we have to really say about it, right? Maybe approve it if it's under 25%.

I don't especially like voting on something which we haven't really seen. And the thing is, is that according to the regulations, when he submits it, we .

I'm fine with voting it next month. I'll do whatever you guys want. I'll put the sign forward.

I really don't. I mean, I think you understand what it is that we're looking for and what we care about and what we don't. Yeah.

So if you can limit the number of signs to just the three signs and keep it aesthetically pleasing, which I agree is, to me, makes more sense than what I've got going on right now.

Yeah.

All right. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay, 14 Main Street.

Yeah, I'm going quick.

Got us on the river. Going once, going twice. He left me.

Was she on the call at all?

I don't believe she's on the call right now. She wasn't earlier either.

That's important. So it's this one over. I think that was for the previous movie content. Oh, yeah. Temporary vinyl sign. Yes.

All right. So has she, and this was in August?

Unless she wrote in January. It's like a wooden card sign. Now she wants to keep the vinyl and frame it.

There was some indication earlier this month, but I think.

Here we go.

He wants to keep the vinyl fine with lighting around it. And I think neither is better. And we can send a follow up and request that she attend the next meeting.

Let's just sort of finish up with 14. But have a seat. Sit down and listen to our brilliant conversation. So what she's saying is part of this process, we revisited the original signage concept in depth. Our initial vision was for a hand-carved wooden sign designed to be single-sided. However, after further evaluation and multiple discussions with our design team, it became clear that adapting this concept Increase the science weight directly above it if it's placed. This raised concerns about the feasibility, but also about the long-term impact on the bill.

Yeah, this is January. But she's not here. So she has not submitted anything to us since then. She's asking if she can keep the vinyl. And the answer is no. And no other, nothing else has been submitted to her.

Well, because at the very last sentence of the letters, Is let me know if you have any question.

Oh, that's Fine that's gonna wouldn't that's right.

I think she thought that's the existing vinyl that used to be like on James ties and four corners or more than that for like a three month

period while this new sign was supposed to be being made last year.

The new sign is getting retrofitted with a wood earring. I don't particularly want to give this any more attention tonight because she is not here.

And she hasn't said anything.

And she's asking us to approve something while never fully submitting an application or just writing emails. And I don't think we can do that.

I mean, she did submit an application for the first to get an appropriateness.

But everything has been done through email. And we can't review. We can't.

I agree. All right. So, Abby, tell her that we would like for her to come visit us.

But maybe should we tell her, too, that lights and vinyl won't be approved? That she has time to participate in that with me, if you mean?

I mean, it would be helpful.

I don't know if she's visiting us just for us to say, we saw your image a month ago and we weren't.

The current signage was approved on a temporary for temporary basis. Only the existing signage does not mean designs guidelines and use submission application should be submitted.

Right?

Well, I saw it does look like she appears because she did confirm receiving the first version of the agenda when it was scheduled for the third Tuesday. I think it might just be scheduling things that I could follow.

OK. Do we deliver that information in that follow-up?

Would you feel comfortable with that, just saying, hey, take a look at the design guidelines? Because I don't think vinyl or lights are going to pass. And how should this 159.168 remain?

Well, I guess I'm not totally convinced that this is not acceptable.

It's an illuminated vinyl system.

Okay.

I'm not going to remember if there's anything acceptable about it. It does not meet a single, I mean, materiality alone. It's disqualified. I know it puts a sign.

But there's no illuminated.

I mean, the ways that we could go spin off of that.

Yeah, no. All right.

All right.

Okay. I'll concede. We don't want

It was approved temporarily a year ago, and that's really the bottom line, is it was never approved to be a permanent sign. It was very clear that it was not approved to be a permanent sign. But we haven't been taught about whether to even approve it for a temporary approval for this reason. It does not pass muster, and a new application for a new sign should be submitted. Okay. Absolutely.

All right.

I'll defer to the rest of the board members. Okay. So 14 Main Street, not present, to appear. Meeting. Okay, 55 Main Street. He is not going to be here, right? Yeah. Okay. 159, 63 Main Street. So tell us all about that little enclosure in the back.

Okay, you guys did not want which I can totally see because the window being blocked on this with this piece water issues that were going into the basement. The architect and me got together, and the only thing we could figure out was to do something like this last piece, which would bring the roof all the way across, still enclose that section because of the water problems that I'm having down there. There was nothing but mold through the whole basement. And since we even did this, it pretty much HAB-Masyn Moyer- mediated most of the water I still getting getting a little bit but it's Okay, we can manage that because it's in that lobby section of it. HAB-Masyn Moyer- But so that's why they were putting the roof all the way over, you still would have to put the side on the side because of water with the winds and everything with the blowing going so that's why. HAB-Masyn Moyer- A wall on the side coming down. And I think this has it where the walls on the other side and then the staircase would still go up, but it would be one big piece of roof so that it would keep the window open and it would be conforming with Bill. That was the only solution that we could come up with.

All right, can you hear that.

There was there's a window many from because of a little. First, the window was not affected, but it did not make any conforming with the system. The window would be enclosed. No, no, the window will still be open. It won't be enclosed. Actually, they're not even using the window because the storefront has stuff in front of the window.

Are we talking about the same window?

The little window that's directly next to the door? Next to the door.

I don't know.

Because I think this is, this is an enclosed space. Yeah. So this would be in that would now be interior. Yeah.

Right. I don't, it looks like it's blocked or somehow. Yeah, because it's not actually shown in this drawing. Right. But

Here.

I thought it was going to be high enough that the window would still be part of it.

Right up against the door. But if this is a wall. Right.

Yes. The window is a wall.

I mean, if you're going to extend the roof within that space. If you're going to extend the roof, it'll cover that, you know, that addition is going to cover the window.

It would be within the unit, but it would not be out to the light, if that's what you mean. But it would still not be affected. It just wouldn't be within the light. And they're not even using the window because they put something up in front of it. So there's not light from there anyway.

I think you wouldn't even see it, even if it's underneath the roof line, because it's literally right under the roof line.

We tried to configure a couple different things. So that was the only thing that could come up with don't keep the water out.

Issues as far as proximity to the wall.

Yeah, we don't know the answer. No. site plan or survey.

No, but that was always there. An existing placement and the build code doors were all doors.

Yeah, you're removing the window. Your drawings are showing that you're removing the window.

We can leave it in if you want. I didn't know they were... Alright, what's the difference between option one and option two?

It's all one. So that was just the first proposal. Actually, well, there's something a little bit. The front part going all the way over to this, to the stair going up.

Presumably no wall that way. Like this instead of Yeah, basically, this is showing one additional wall. And I think these two faces on the next

You can see it. There are two enclosures. There's an enclosure next to the stair. Here the enclosure is extended to this wall or to the stair going up.

There was a wall on this side of it.

Yeah, the wall, and then the other one has it with it.

Here, and there, and the door.

And I guess my question, do you have any issues as far as leaving this open and water getting back?

Yeah, that's the problem. Because if this thing is not kept on both sides, the wind starts blowing and the water starts coming down.

What you're saying is option two is your preferable one.

Right. But I guess my question is really this area here.

That's kind of weird space.

That's a vulnerable and water can build up in there because you have the stairs going on.

It gets a lot of water, which I was shocked. When we started to gut the basement wall, it was full of mold because the water kept seeping through from the stairs.

And then you're getting ready for us.

All right.

So before we get to option one and option two, do we have any comments concerning the construction of the of the addition. In other words, the materials and the configuration of the addition, the enclosure.

I think one thing, and someone just mentioned it, the site plan. I understand this foundation was previously for a bill code door. But I think we wanted to see the site plan in relation to the overall build. When people have fences, they often need to show the site plan. And since this is a substantial addition, and it's still close to the sidewalk. Something that shows the overall context in relation to the sidewalk with the Mentons. Like when fences go up, that's something that we have.

That was grandfathered in, in that section. And if there was someone going up, there would still be grandfathered in.

Because it was the Bilko door.

Well, talking about Bilko doors is a Yeah, totally.

But I mean, it's built up on a cement base.

Right, but that's still a completely different thing than an addition to a structure.

But would that still not be grandfathered as far as if it did wind up going over? I'm just saying.

Yeah, I mean, if you were fixing or replacing them in kind, it would be a non-issue because then you would be grandfathered in for the bilko doors. So if you were just replacing them with new bilko doors that were more weathertight or something, not an issue.

Right, but that's a problem. in kind and we wouldn't be having any of these conversations so it's the fact that it's an addition to this to the existing structure yes it's within a footprint that you know so let me just ask you this yeah and i'm just checking if let's say okay we got what's there and you guys are fine let's say with the layout what we're doing if that does not meet The setback of what you have to the sidewalk. What is my next step?

Yeah.

Because I can't take that down. I got to do something. I'm not going to destroy the integrity of the building.

That's a zoning thing. So the site plan, I think, would be helpful to consider. consider the options. I definitely think that the proposed options are much better than what's currently there. I agree.

And I agree that we got to get one roof to make it more uniform.

But the window goes away.

Is the window that important there? It's not even used in the store.

Well, it is, it's next to it's, it's there. And it just to clarify that the window is in fact going to be at window opening to match surrounding wall finishes.

Okay, it's just it's a consideration because it is there and it's going away. So that is that is something to consider.

So yeah, I mean, I could put the window on the side. of the piece that we've lined up. You know what I'm saying? If you click on the side of the enclosure as a window, which would still look nice.

That's enough.

Yeah. And make it look a little more.

Well, that looks like a stained glass window.

It is.

All right. Any other comments concerning?

Let me ask you this. If this gets approved, and then I find out that with the survey that I get to, it doesn't meet, and I would go to them to get the variance. Can we even do that? Let's say this is proved on the condition that if it doesn't meet whatever with.

Yes, we can do that.

Only to say it so we can keep going.

Well, the question really is, is that. Is it a variance or is it the village? office or the village selling the, you know, the property.

Because, because the variance. You guys got an emergency door here. I'll let you ride onto my property. We can have a trade-off.

Well, the reason I asked the question is that, um, you know, um, obviously the building itself is on the property lines.

Yeah.

So, you know, the question is the, There is no setback requirement, as long as it's within the property line.

I don't. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know the zoning law around.

Well, if the building is on the property line, then, huh?

The front lot line, right?

Well, this is a corner building, so.

Correct. It's not five feet, is it? No. It's not five feet.

It's zero. Well, it can't be because it's on the property line. In other words, it's right at the sidewalk.

Well, right. But I'm saying for the code, at one point, the code was following, like, it's actually a setback, and so everyone kept on getting stuck because they're building short on the property line, and so the code was changed to accommodate existing buildings. And I just can't remember if it's five feet or zero fees, but additions are different than existing.

Okay, I think that is something that we can leave the building department to address because all of the buildings along Main Street have zero setback as far as the property line at Main Street. And typically, when you have a corner, both sides are considered front lot. So I think that we shouldn't get involved in the whole issue as far as the setback. I think that what we ought to do is take a look at what we have in front of us now and just make a judgment based on that.

And if we do vote to approve something, though, we should say in the language of the permit.

And I can go up to them and discuss.

I mean, I think that maybe I propose option one, where the door is centered on its structure, its closure. yeah and the original kind of iron railing above the steps and all of that is just staying exactly the same as it is right that's not i wasn't changing anything that's not but but the way that the second option is drawn is that your wall goes kind of right up to those concrete steps and it maybe are you saying to not have the wall on the one side No, I'm saying option one, I believe, is my preference aesthetically.

Anybody have any other comments? Does anyone agree or disagree with that? Well, I think that's a valid point.

Yes, he's saying that. Well, we can just send that to people.

The window can be incorporated to the side. But I can put it to the side. As you would go down, you would have it from the street side. That window could be put in there. Sitting above the window, but on this opposed left side.

There's another stone glass window on that left side already, right?

Yeah.

Higher up?

Yeah.

So it's sort of a back of house element that's very front of house, right? So it's calibrating how informal or formal this is in relation to the rest of the building, and what materials are used, and outside of the doors, et cetera, et cetera.

So what do you think? I think that's awesome. the window in relation to that rear door, the original intent and the original design of that is completely lost with the shed roof overhanging that door. And so in my mind, it's no longer kind of serving its original purpose.

But would you want it on the side?

Even aesthetically from the exterior looking at that, it looks You're looking. Are you looking at the street view? Yeah. It just, to me, it looks very much like, okay, this has been a kind of remodeled opening that's just been hodgepodge. Yeah, there's this old window there, but it's so awkward looking. It's partially covered.

It's right up, you know, to the where the window is meant to be like an elegant, nice moment. And this is the shed that's attached to the back of the building that's anomalous. Right. Already.

So maybe it doesn't get incorporated. Yeah. It's drawing kind of a decorative attention to something that really doesn't warrant that kind of decoration.

It may have served a purpose. It was just a bill code door. But now that you have this enclosure, All of a sudden, it kind of looks.

It's still not lighted. No? It's still not lighted. When you're putting up on this thing, you're putting up . I think it is exactly the kind of weird stuff that you see all over the cold spring, where you're recycling elements. I think it's totally fine to do that. I would like to see it used in some way.

Oh, it would be. But I'm just saying that we don't put it there.

I think I kind of agree with Kate, actually, in giving it more thought and that it's such a small, small little structure that it...

I'm having, in general, I understand the programmatic need for this structure. I'm just having a hard time accepting its existence. And it will be covered on the side that will just be this odd shed attached to this building.

I can't change it any other way. I'm done right now. I'm not going to change it. I would change for what you guys want. But other than that, I can't.

It was big. It's a big problem. And I had to stop it.

A lot of water's coming through there. I don't even know where some of it comes from.

Are you also proposing to remove windows, the basement windows, and remove charging? No.

I'm putting in on the windows, which was on the other plan.

It's not the basement level.

The basement level's going to have new windows, too.

I don't see any windows here.

They just aren't on here. I'm sorry. I didn't see you. You just didn't include them in the plan. Yeah, they're there, but then they're not going to be gone.

Yeah.

I didn't know we did that.

Asphalt shingles will be matching the roof real quick and

I'm going to be doing the same type of siding, even though it's an asbestos. So they have a fake asbestos siding that would match.

Will you be using this roof shingle or what you did on the main building?

On the top. Well, the top you can't even see because it's black. It's black rubber. The only thing is I put, I put. The mansard. On the mansard side, I wound up putting slate like that looks like the rubber, but it's a slate.

Okay.

I wouldn't be putting that on this. I would just put a black.

A black.

Asphalt shingle.

PVC soffit and fascia.

That would just be PVC. Basically a composite wood so that it doesn't rot.

The issue I would have is that there are certain things which, if it was set back a ways, we could probably allow it. But I think you're talking about something which is very close to somebody walking by.

I'll tell you what. You can't tell the difference. I have it on so many . Yeah, you can. I have not been able to. I'll take you to one of my buildings and you tell me you can see that's PVC. I bet you when it's painted, you cannot tell.

We don't allow other people to do it.

Well, it's just you can't tell. And as home buildings, you want to make them as maintenance-free as possible.

I understand that. I guess my question is that we're talking about something which is right there in your face.

If you want it in wood, we'll make it in wood. It doesn't matter to me.

I do it in wood. Yeah. The door.

What is the proposed door?

You want a different door? I'll put a different door.

That's the door that's there. Right. What do you want? Wood? We can't really make out what that looks like, that current, that door.

OK, I'm asking the board right now, option one or option two? I've heard that option one is differences, the fact that we were sitting in the middle of the implosion. Option two is lead over the stairs going up.

Option one and a lot of those states are better. It looks less immersive. It looks like it's too diminutive. It's a little...

I think at least that when it's centered on that, that

Maybe to call them aside for a minute since we should talk about this.

So I hear two option ones. Lauren?

Oh.

Option one is better.

So this line has moved over to where she is. The wall goes right from the stairs.

So then the door is no longer centered on the space. It's like a bigger enclosed space.

Do you hear anything? And now the question of the window.

Do we want the window relocated to another place?

I would love for it to be relocated at some point or incorporated in some way. But I agree with Kate sentiment of sort of decorating something that would not that really should be kind of diminutive to the overall that it should be included there.

All right, Kimberly.

What? That's the street view. Maybe two. Less stuff going on.

Lauren?

I would like to see the windows saved, posting less windows saved and used.

Somewhere else. Oh, yeah. It will be used somewhere. I'll just have to figure where.

And all would. And the doors would. OK. That's fine.

on the soffit and the door.

And nothing is changing other than the roofing material for the section of roof or the posts and all of that over the door, the exterior door up the steps.

You mean that that section there? Yeah.

The only thing that's changing is the shingle.

It's going to, yeah, that section is just, the roof's going to come all the way across.

Yeah.

But all of that will remain the same.

But the posts and like, you know, that stuff that drops down off of it, that all on the rail, the broad eye railing, that you're not touching any of that.

No.

Yeah. Um, I guess my question is, uh, New pressure treated four by four post primed and painted. And I don't see, I see one post being different zip as opposed to the other.

I think that's here. No, it's the drums.

The gutter?

The gutter? Isn't that the gutter? On the end?

Yeah, there's one post on that. There's another post that... Are you saying one fatter than that? Yeah.

Well, then we'll make sure that they're both... I don't know why he did that. But we can make everything, of course, uniformed, which is good.

But these posts are not the... This post will be there.

Well, that's a whole new... Sorry, did that exist?

Yeah, in other words, you've got two posts right now. And are you replacing those posts? He said no.

No, I think unless when they're putting up the wall on the one side, No, no, there's someone at this store.

This is, in other words, you're replacing an open area with a wall.

Yeah.

No, it says proposed left side. That's showing the exposed railing. All right.

And on the proposed right side. The proposed right side.

One section would be closed and the other section would still be open.

Oh.

Make a roof. Which coins at all?

It's a big addition.

Otherwise, you're going to, we're still going to have the same problem with the water. That was why we were doing this to the limit.

I think the best of your, an enclosed vestibule to an ultimately exterior door that you step up into might feel like a little bit 1980s, like a little bit weird. Because that existing door has existed with a shed roof.

Like the existing conditions is this, right?

It's closed, closed, open. You walk up the stairs, you go in the door. Like that, like pretending there's no basement. Like if it was just the front, this door.

That's still happening to me. You're not showing that, though. You're showing it closed. That's the proposed right side. That's the existing right side and the proposed.

But then the rest of this will be open, so will this side.

We want to make sure that there won't be a wall on the...

The right side's going to have a wall. The right side's going to have a wall.

The right side of the stairs. That won't. That's what we want to make sure.

So it's drawn wrong. This is incorrect. Oh, he put it as there's a wall? yeah what we want to make sure is that as far as my understanding wasn't what i told the steps to the basement are enclosed yeah the rest of it is not going to open the way that it is that the one side is going to have the wall because that's going to be to the base the wall this side between the base and the stairs yes yes that's not but then but then that other side's supposed to be open it says here new stud wall siding to match existing and it's sure the drawing has to be changed on the other side so i i mean we're not there's no problem with that because we're leaving that open anyway yeah Okay, I will be able to have a water issue. That's not going to matter.

Railing on each side of the staff is staying open. Yeah, that whole entryway is staying open.

Yes. Okay. So those will be the existing posts. And essentially, you just can extend the roof. Yes.

And they're going to be of course painted and all which they got everything.

But that's not what it's shown.

Apparently, they wound up putting that side piece which they weren't told that

Okay. All right. So do I have a motion concerning this application with the following changes?

See the door. Let me go down the list. And is there any lighting being added? There's a light there. There's a light under the porch. There's just a light under the porch, but no other exterior sconces or anything like that?

No, the light's above.

So that's just staying. Yeah.

All right. So that is the following application or the application as submitted with the following changes. The PVC soffit and fascia is to be wood. The doors are to be wood. The window, you know, that's the notice. But the reason is the wall on the right side of the stairs going up.

There are no walls on either side of the steps going up. No, I have one on one side.

I have one side has one side on the one side of the step.

I'm treating the two entries as separate. The one going down, fully enclosed. The one going up, fully unenclosed.

I have to mark up the drawings and your drawing shows a wall here. And that is not going to happen. Exactly.

Did we all make a decision on one or two, though?

You went to two. I think I best said two, but

I think if you're doing all of this, just make it one thing rather than having this little bit.

Then your wrought iron railing is essentially going to be abutting a solid shale wall.

Like a metal network.

Maybe if you recenter the door. If you recenter the door. The door to the basement in version two, the second. The door is centered now.

It's all centered on the stairs. I couldn't re-center it. I'll be over here, and the stairs are over.

The stairs work, if it would work or not.

OK.

So do I have a motion concerning the application?

Go back to talking about option one and two. Kate was a one. I was a one. Kimberly?

One.

Oh, OK.

I mean, I'm a two if the door was re-centered, because it is less of a two.

So it's entered to the stairs. OK. So I need a motion. Are you a one? Huh? Are you an option one-er? I'm an option one-er.

Can the stained glass be salvaged for ? OK. Yes. window opening.

All right. Do I have a motion?

We don't.

We need and shingles back. I'm just hearing this and agreeing it. Well, the next person, when we ask them .. Yeah, we need to see the cut sheet.

Is it that you're looking for?

A cut sheet for the doors, the wood doors. Like a wood door. I'm sorry.

A wood door, whatever shingle you're using, the brand, you know, the cut sheet for the shingle. And then we understand that you are kind of matching the existing shingles and painting the wood, you know, as the rest of the building. So I don't think we need that. That's all right. The shingle and the door.

Got it. Is it here? I mean, it's here.

Probably you have whatever the gutter you used for. They got shitty gutters on there.

Yeah.

They're white crap gutters. Anything will probably be black gutters.

It'll be a new gutter because it's a longer one.

It'll probably be a new gutter. Yeah.

Where does the gutter fill?

Ideally, it'd be on the That's a good one. Far aside from the sidewalk, but I think if this property slopes down, he has it drawn in front of the corner. It's the white element, I think. I think that's that white thing you see.

Well, hopefully it can tie into the building gutter, right? I don't mean tie in, but I mean, the building gutter looks like it's going... When I was in here, the building got our building in for just spill right out of the sidewalk. It's not going into a drain.

That was what I think it'd be much better here at the ground slope. So it would just feel really worried.

Well, that's the daughter's book, whether the leaders builds here.

Okay. No, isn't that going into a drain?

Yeah, one goes into a drain underground. I don't know if I can tie the other one into it.

I have to say. If that was possible, I think it would be. Yeah, if you can, I think that would be a proper. Rather than have it spill. Okay. Okay.

So you want me to show you which door I'm ordering? Is that what you want? You want to show which door?

And just the shingle brand.

And the brand of the shingle.

Yeah.

Which will be black shingles architectural.

Of the parking. These shingles.

Oh, those are asphalt shingles. They're going to be the same asphalt shingle, but they're not asphalt. I mean, not asphalt. They're copies. I can get, I can bring you one of those samples.

Oh, just the parking pipe or parking.

I mean, I don't know what it was originally for.

Are we talking about that yellow part? Yeah. That's the pipes for the no parking. Okay. Somebody ripped one down already because they left the parking.

Okay. So, Now, the question that I have is that what we would like to get from you is... Now, does the door...

It's fine to have glass in the door, correct? I just wanted to... Yeah, I mean, I think as far as the number of

your plan is to replace the windows in the building, right?

With whatever we agreed on last time.

I think it's two over two. So I feel like getting rid of those divisions and having a single pane of glass, just one rectangle pane of glass rather than have those divisions on there since the rest of the building will be larger pieces.

All right. What else do we want spec sheets on? We have the door, the roof shingles. The siding. The siding is supposed to match the existing.

It could be the asbestos siding, but not asbestos. You don't think it's the asbestos siding?

Okay.

Okay. Can you have your architect revise the drawings things and the middle of the things that we are asking for? And we'll take a vote in the July meeting. When is July meeting?

You're looking option one. And what else did you want him to change on this drawing?

Well, he's got to delete the... Oh, yeah, to the right. Right. You need to put a note.

That's called out up here, too. It's a new stud wall.