Planning and Zoning - Regular Meeting

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[Music] [Music] and welcome to the February 11th 2025 Planning and Zoning commission uh meeting and we can have roll call please missina here McCracken here Fleming here Ward here lrip here Eng Les Copus okay thank you if you can join me with the pledge please thank you can you hear me out there okay approval of the December 10th Planning and Zoning commission uh meetings for the workshop we had I'll still move I have a motion by Fleming second I have a second by McCracken all in favor I I and opposed okay this time a public comment that's anything that is in honor of agenda so if anyone's out there that wants to come up to the podium and talk to us if not okay staff comment all right good evening Commissioners good evening I wanted to announce that Mike Barry who's an associate planner in the planning department will be retiring next Wednesday after nine and a half years of service with the city so we're sad to see him go so wanted to share that information for our March meeting we

actually just have one public hearing item it is associated with the corter project they are seeking a small zone change request there's a portion on the northwest property so away from all the residential areas where they want to change the zoning and then also change the zoning of the well sites they've worked with the city's water department to figure out an appropriate location for the well so we need to change the Zoning for that and then there's an amendment being proposed to the development agreement so that'll all come to you in one public hearing item in March and that's all I have okay thank you Commission comments no okay we're going to go right into our public hearing um the applicant is Aaron Moe uh location is 2113 East Harrison Avenue the request is a proposed zone change from C70 PUD to a [Music] c17 and Sean's going to give us an update all right thank you chair minina good evening evening planning Commissioners tonight as alluded to we have a zone change request zc25 so this is a request for 213 East Harrison the request is for c17 PUD to c17 the applicant is here uh this evening and will be able to answer questions so the location is the northwest corner of East Harrison and Second Street and all of the legal notice will was provided it was mailed on January 24th published in the calan Press on the 25th and the property was posted on the 31st so we'll begin with the site context uh this is a picture of the site it is outlined in this white dashed line

of the subject property here and here is Harrison and second as a jogs so um to begin it's good to go back and speak a little bit about the past actions and I know this is a very text Heavy slide I'll try not to read it into the record but suffice it to say about 45 years ago there was a request for a PUD I can uh give a little bit more information on that Planning Commission uh they reviewed it on February 12th of 1980 and city council reviewed it on March 4th and April 1st so um it was March 4th they had sent it forward to have some um transportation review done to decide if it was possible or if there was any interest in making uh the street into a oneway and it was determined that it would not be and so they reconvene on April 1st and approved it with conditions there are three conditions um one was the specific limitation on the use in the site layout it was restricted to Insurance slre estate office only it had to maintain its residential character and they were in required to install 8 foot sidewalks um none of that really happened so it's been living ever since then as a PUD um it as you can see here on my slide initially that was zoned c-1 A- PUD which doesn't align really directly with our current zoning that was changed I believe in 1983 when that that transferred to what it is today which is the C7 PUD um but all of the the requirements and

conditions um are still attached to the property um the reason why our best guess is there wasn't much information on this but during that time there was a moratorium for uh because of Wastewater uh the plant wasn't able to handle capacity at that time so there was a moratorium on development so there's a couple of small puds around town during that time that didn't meet the one and a half acre requirement and that was as I understood the way that the city handled it at that time so that certain things could move forward and other things could not so um the applicants narrative in zoning implications so um the applicant has identified that he would like to use it as professional management office within the existing residential structure and then build a caretaker unit on the property uh with additional space on the ground floor to provide some window displays um I'm not sure if the applicant is too aware of this but the uh the caretakers unit is a residential style unit it's accessory to so it doesn't have commercial use associated with it it requires separations and and things of that nature so he'll have to find a better way to do the display but what that falls under under the zoning code for the type of use is a service activity as general Construction Services and here is is the description of of what that is as well as the definition of what a caretaker unit is for everyone and uh we'll move on so um there are four findings that are required for any zone change um we'll move through those right now and finding B1 is that the proposal is or is not in conformance with the comprehensive plan so this is the

context of the entire city and the location of where that is in the city and um this is a the future land use map at the neighborhood scale and you can see here that is um listed as compact neighborhood um suffices to say and I I made a note in in the staff report rep that talks about this is because of the limitation of that PUD at the time and the comp plan you know there's 23,000 plus or minus Parcels in the city of cordelane so when we did the comp plan we did our best to try and use um the the land use that existed as well as what we wanted the future land uses with Council input on you know um protect the single family neighborhoods and so some of those things didn't align perfectly so we gave the applicant the opportunity to make uh the request for CA 17 if he wanted to do that which he he decided to with the understanding that Planning Commission makes the recommendation to council and Council ultimately makes the call so uh this is a description of what place types and what they represent and this is also in the comprehensive plan and then the description of what a compact neighborhood is and there are places of medium density residential areas located primarily in older locations of Cal Lane where there's an established Street grid with bicycle and pedestrian facilities development is typically single family duplex Triplex fourplex town homes green courts and auto courts supporting uses typically include neighborhood parks recreation facilities and parking areas the compatible zoning associated with compact neighborhood is R12 R17 mh8 NC and CC so this is the transportation element

of the comprehensive plan denoting where that is the first one is the bicycle Network there is bicycle Lanes along Harrison and then there is sidewalks somewhat sporadically around there um there is on the subject property east west on Harrison but not north south on Second Street and then the existing Transit Network which is City Link and it kind of lives inside of this portion route a all right so moving on to the goals and objectives um there's goals uh there's different sets of goals and objectives the first category of that is the community and identity so the goal is that citizens are well informed responsive and involved in community discussions I always like to thank the people that came out tonight and willing to listen give their testimony and weigh in on on requests such as this and goal two to maintain a high quality of life for residents and businesses that make cordelan a great place to live in visit so growth and development there's some additional ones here I'll just read the goals as you can check out the objectives is to develop a mix of land uses throughout the city that balance housing and employment while preserving the qualities that make cordelane a great place to live and goal two which is to ensure appropriate highquality infrastructure to accommodate Community needs and future growth last but not least the section of jobs and economy is to retain grow and attract businesses right so moving on to the next finding which is B2 that public facilities and utilities are or are not available and adequate for the proposed use suffice it to say that we had Street and Engineering waterf fire and the Wastewater Department weigh in on this request all have reviewed it and the public utilities and facilities are

available to serve the proposed zone change request next is finding B3 is that the physical characteristics of the site do or do not make it suitable for the request at this time let me move forward here because everybody can read is the immediate area is characterized by a mix of small scale residential and Commercial development on a relatively flat elevation the parcel itself sits at the northwest corner of Harrison Avenue and 2 Street and is approximately 9,411 Square ft in size the structure on the property is a mid 20th Century House retaining most of its original residential architectural style and the site features a sidewalk along Harrison and and a paved driveway along Second Street and with minimal Landscaping on the frontages and mature trees in the northwest corner of the lot those trees are back here so moving on to the pictures here this is the the front of the home along Harrison this is Harrison here so front of home this is the kind of side or or rear depending on if you're on second looking at it or not this is the intersection of second and Harrison along the side and then this is from second looking Southwest towards the home and then looking down Harrison directly so you can see the sidewalk that is installed here and then this red arrow is pointing to the St Vincent depal help center and then doing a 180 and looking towards third and fourth street this is the mix of residential commercial and Civic uses that are off in the distance right so last but not least is finding before is that the proposal would or would not adversely affect the

surrounding neighborhood with regard to traffic neighborhood character and or existing land uses excuse me so um we had city the city engineer Chris Bosley weighed in on this um using land use code based upon what the applicant has said he would like to do with the property and it suffices to say that um it generate about 18 additional trips per day with two additional am and am peak hour and two additional PM peak hour trips uh including the the caretakers unit so the neighborhood character and I I it's very similar to the physical characteristics I won't read this all into the into the record but suffice it to say that Harrison is kind of the East West Route third fourth and government way all lead to the freeway as well as very close to downtown so it's kind of a a good East West movement area for the city vehicular wise all right so um this is the existing zoning map you can see here that this is the subject property it is c17 PUD with c17 next door R12 to the north and to the East and then c17 L on the other side of that to the South R12 and a smaller c17 PUD here on the corner so um the proposed c17 zoning District this is what the definition of c17 is it allows for a broad range of commercial uses as well as a density of R17 for residential those can be mixed and the um the determination for density is based on the size of the lot for

residential and so um this District should be located adjacent to arterials however joint access developments are encouraged so um another very text Heavy slide I will not read all of these in here I put this in here to show what the uses are of c17 um there is a note in here that talks about the theoretical maximums of the buffer yard requirements as well as some of the limitations that are based on size of lot uh parking setbacks Heights those sorts of things that that limit development based on on what the size of the lot is right so the land use map here so you can see currently that's a a single family home next door is a Civic use lots of single families duplexes nearby with commercial flanking on the north south arterials and this was more towards the beginning of my staff report I put it towards the end because it went along with the zoning and the land use is prior zone changes in the vicinity and what those were and the so the way that this works is zc stands for zone change the second number is which number it was in the year which is the last two digits so from 1987 to 2018 um these were the requests green denotes ones that are approved the blue are is one are the one that was withdrawn and then red is is denied so the Planning Commission will need to consider this request make appropriate findings to recommend to city council to adopt the C7 zoning or not to adopt the c17 zoning so with that that ends my staff report I'll be willing to answer any question Sean Sean I got a quick

question sure um besides c17 which is being uh requested the we have a piece uh paper in front of us uh neighborhood commercial um would that use that they want to do as far as a um an office I'm assuming according to what information we have in our package and then a um a caretakers unit which is basically a c Adu would they be able to put a accessory use similar to that CU I see here on their accessory uses under a neighborhood commercial it's an apartment for residential caretaker so I'm trying to find out what other zoning application might work without blanketing a c17 yes and there's a few different ways a good question and um there's a few different ways to accomplish something similar to what he's requesting so NC and CC are somewhat similar um the scope and size of the building that you can build is a little bit different but there's hours of operation there is it's done by floor area ratio so the size of the lot determines um the the how much you can build on there there are some limitations to use and so when I when I put this up here it's not real clear in the ncn CC if if the general description of service activities that General Construction Services would be allowed it talks about retail um very limited retail and service uses so I would assume that that would be able to fall under there um one of the limitations though is that the caretaker's unit or a living unit would have to be on top or

below grade it cannot be at at the ground level elevation so so it would have to be a on top or below of one of the general construction service buildings let's say or another building that's there cuz I believe we I that was going to build maybe and the applicant can answer this two buildings or something I believe yes for my my understanding reading his request and his narrative is that he wanted to convert the existing single family home into kind of the office space where things are done build the caretakers unit and have a little bit of like showroom there but I'm that like I said that probably won't work the showroom needs to be where the commercial use is at in that building so when you look at the same two and then you have prohibit specifically prohibited industrial warehouses and outdoor storage of goods I mean then they aren't really compatible right well the general description here of service activities is is the services so the way that the city code works is that you have these categories of use so you have a commercial category which is like a retail that sort of thing service category is more of like something that you would do repeatedly for someone like their taxes or haircuts or you know those types of services This falls under a service activity so as I understand it it would allow um the other Avenue getting back to Chairman ms's original request the other Avenue would be a zone change to c17 L which is a very limited commercial that does allow for office space but it doesn't allow for the general Construction Services which would require a special use permit as well so that's a whole another step

taking another trip back to Planning Commission okay go ahead yeah Sean if I could ask on the applications you listed right at the very end all these different zoning actions since 1987 were they all on this property oh no that that's the map here are you speaking of of this one uh right to the right there you're listing of the different zoning actions yeah so this is the subject property right and then it's kind of hard to see maybe I can get this a little bit bigger that's okay but the corresponding zone changes like zc 587 got it thank you here second thing is uh to the South and across Harrison from the subject property and a bit to the West is another uh c17 PUD it looks from the property because I used to used to live in the area like it's an old U old facility looks like petroleum fueling or something going on there I assume that's been there for years and years correct I couldn't find much information on it okay I have one other question you have to Sure forgive me I'm from the sou I'm real slow okay take your time the C the c17 Pud why can he not do what he wants to do Under the current zoning um because it's not specifically selling insurance or real estate so the Pud really really locked it down due to that Wastewater Mortor when going back to the 20 uh the 1980 resolution it said for those uses and keep the building right correct it was that specific use keep the building residential build a parking lot and and side Bo okay thank you very

much can we do that again though I mean we're not used to a c17 PUD but could we modify the current you modify the Pud restrictive yes yeah you know staff talked about that you know amongst ourselves um and we looked at it and it was such a a strange action that we didn't feel comfortable with modifying a PUD that wasn't an acre and a half because it doesn't meet the the minimums that the city it was almost like a stop Gap that was used back then and so we felt it that it would be much better to bring forward the request to Planning Commission and Council and have them decide is it worth it to have the zone change at whatever the applicants sought so if we wanted to do or not want to do but if the applicant would want to do a C7 PUD based on what he wants to use the property for he'd have to come back and do an application again and well he wouldn't meet the criteria for a new PUD because the code is changed so you'd have to have an acre and a half so we'd either have to have one of these zoning districts or there's the conditional zoning option in the zoning code we've only done that a few times those are a little challenging because then it's like all a cart and then it's hard for staff to manage over time when there's certain uses that are restricted or allowed on specific properties that's the other option so can we um we can't restrict the property because we're looking at a zone change right now we can't restrict the property Just For What the applicant would want so we wouldn't have a broad C7 Zone in that area yeah that that's what uh Hillary was alluding to here with the conditional rezoning um this happens from time to time staff is is a little bit wary of it because it becomes very hard to manage

over time it ends up being similar to what we have now if you take a look at the city's the way that the city's zoning District our information sheets these are our our typical zones and so when someone comes to us and sits down across from us and says what can I do with my property and we look up the zoning and say R12 you know here's what you can do in R12 the more times that you put these conditionals Lo on there the more staff has to go and try and find which specific Parcels that applies to and give them that information it it's it it becomes quite the task over time and things will fall through the crowd opening a new can of worms perhaps because of giving new and we're not saying it can't be done it can be we just caution not to that to become the norm okay Peter go ahead could you do a development agreement you can it's a very small piece of property usually differ I mean you can it what I it's surround on both sides of c c17 one is a c17 straight through the other one is a c17 l you know and so here this this property is right in between and he wants he or she they want to go to c17 c17 L wouldn't wouldn't meet their needs apparently not without a special use permit okay I I just I I then further to the West that big red dot that is that c17 that is c17 I mean there there's a lot of c17s in here I think way yeah there's a lot of c17 over here I mean and and this yeah I I from just viewing it like this it just seems like a natural progression if you can't do PUD modification you can't do a management agreement or development agreement

it seems like the c17 would be would be proper but having not heard any his comments or the or public comments I reserve that comment making determination I have not are there any details of the plans for parking um and where they would come onto the lot like would they enter off of second or Harrison cuz like peak times a day I think the traffic at the light is backed up past that parcel a lot of times so gave Hillary a glance because we were discussing this with the city engineer today and and how they would access the site um back you know when this was originally done 45 years ago there was a lot of comments about you know his is second you know that residential street that shouldn't have commercial traffic on it or not and you know is it going to bger up Harrison by by approving this and so um Chris said that he would rather have the access from the existing point of access on the site which is on Second Street rather than having the traffic stop to wait to turn into a parking lot off of Harrison however he said if Planning Commission wants it the other way he would be happy to do either okay Sean when what is the c17 to the west of the property if you can go back to your screen that you had all his own changes when was that change to c17 or was it always c17 that's the it appears it was annexed in that way Library it's been that way for many a year okay it was a library before that correct oh that's where the library was yeah that's the concrete Library building okay okay try to demo that yeah okay all right any other questions Sean no all right thanks Sean you're welcome okay we have the applicant come on up is there any specific slide you'd like me to put

on that one sure right Aron I'll just state your name the city you live in and I'll swear you in sure Aaron Mo I live here in C Lane uh do you somly swear and or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the whole truth nothing but the truth self you gu absolutely go right ahead um yeah thank you for having me here tonight just want to clear up a couple things um after the discussions um becoming more aware with what the proper uses of the proposed building that I put on the property we would only be using it as an accessory caretaking unit there will be no business operations taking care in the accessory caretakers unit uh that is very necessary for that property because of the help center next door um I love St Vincent dep Paul in fact I donated $35,000 to St Vincent dep Paul this year um but there is a serious problem with having vagrancy in that area due to the nature of what they do there um we've had people sleeping um on that back fence line before um I lived in that property when I first moved here um moving my business up here into cordelane um expanding from Boise um so love being up here um I enjoyed living there um I looked to make it a rental property but I don't think that's the best use I think the best use is a small business or professional management office with a caretakers unit to properly oversee the property so that the security is there we've had beer bottles thrown into the property I had three kids living there that's not an appropriate environment for that to be happening um so due to that I think this is a great use for the property um I think I've provided a plan for adequate um parking in front of the accessory caretaking unit I think I could fit three or four vehicles in front of that another three or four vehicles inside the bottom of the accessory carry taking unit if they ever wanted to store vehicles on it but I don't see that being um something I would be seeking to do um so we we'd have two PE uh parking places on the right side of the building

for the uh professional management office there's only two offices in that um structure so adequate parking will be provided um happy to provide any other questions um but certainly think you know it's been pretty well thought out um when I presented this to the city um I was excited about the opportunity to create a nice wide um you know sidewalk I think that's a problem there um also I it actually I I would like to see um you know a blinking crosswalk there because you know the amount of traffic that goes by at 35 Plus miles an hour on a 25 M our road would blow your mind I mean it's uh we have 35 mph all day long I bet 45 M hour um more than once a day so um I brought those concerns I offered to pay for that um also so um you know I'd be interested in knowing what the cost would be and to front that cost um so yeah I'm really looking forward to improving our city um you know I'm a business owner I started my business uh actually right when covid started moved it out of Colorado came back to Idaho very grateful to be here um but yeah this is definitely a plan to try and make this the best use um and I'm you know put my mind to it and think I came out with a good use so happy to answer any questions at this time Hill I got a question as far as um the application for whatever structures they're going to have to adhere to all the parking regulations and the amount of spaces and correct y everything everything that goes with the regular permit zoning code correct okay questions go ahead Phil thank you for being here I get absolutely in your application indicate there will be two businesses there nope just one business so I don't know why that was actually Mis um represented and goes on to say you intend to use the existing building for that use yes sir and then add a separate caretakers quarters are they being combined into one building or how is that going to be

done yeah so into the back um so if we were to look at the property um right oh Rich sorry yeah we're going to have this we it right up here I have it right here on the screen you can use the mouse up there um yeah I I see thank you so much um so we would be looking to put the accessory unit as far back in this left corner as possible to provide as much parking up here and um an access in and out right here was the ideal plan um if we had to take out this garage to provide access that is possible um but I I personally don't think it would be the best um you know in I mean if we're just having a caretaker in and out a couple times a day I just don't see the amount of traffic U flow presenting an issue uh from that exit can I ask you a little clarification on the business what kind of traffic does people coming there is there a lot of that or is it strictly on the phone or whatever yeah I own direct siding um so I do mostly inhome consultations right now so this will be our physical um really just like a design U meeting place um we actually in three or four years hope to have a place in a very you know I mean what I would say like a a big um you know truck yard we're not that big right now like I have a couple trailers there those will be moved as soon as this this starts I mean um if we can get approved and get you know um when I hired an architect to start this project a year and a half ago he thought the plan that he made and I spent some money on was good to go so we were a little surprised when this PUD came up and I heard from the city that we couldn't move forward so we've been kind of stuck um in a situation where I haven't been able to do anything um because we just didn't know what we could do and how to handle it um so we're here now and certainly trying to just get the ball moving your idea is to

convert the existing residents to an office use build a caretakers facility in the back closer to uh St Vincent dep Paul yes sir and you would have your parking and access in the area between the existing building and St Vincent dep Paul coming off of off of a okay all right thank you more additional parking I guess I have a question on the use a little bit as far as like sighting materials and things like that they're not on site nothing there will be maybe one company vehicle parked there but there will be nothing else no trailers no nothing I mean we just we we um we we're not even we those will be gone as soon as the development starts period okay cuz I think that would be like a neighbor concern concern that we've heard of as parking and that is fair I I I I do understand that we we also were trying to divest of a property and Boise to basically get moved things around so I apologize but yes so there won't be like um you know big trucks with shipments coming no Building Material no nothing received nothing's shipped um it will purely be as a real estate office kind of would be a place to meet one client at a time um or for people to come in and make an appointment um that that is 100% and it so so I take it you're going to be remodeling the existing house somewhat or the existing house we did all the siding on the outside and uh but yeah we we have about a $75,000 plan to bring that up to a nice you know uh modern look so okay great so if they are just using it for an office use for I mean it's not selling real estate but improving real estate is there is there a way we could use the existing PUD we could not build the structure that we want with the oh you couldn't build the access we would like that to be removed because I mean frankly we do not see any investment um

we don't see why we put any money into the property if we can't have a caretaker um with the I mean I've had bottles thrown in um while I'm in the back yard so um I would like to have somebody living there if I'm going to put any money into the property I'm have security cameras it's going to look good um it's going to be beautiful um I think it fits the the density and and the development plan and vision for cordelane especially with Trader Joe's and kind of all that happening down there I think it'd be a great fit okay okay any other question around if no okay if we have any other questions we'll ask you thank you uh I have Laura Dawson she does reach to speak she didn't indicate yes or no on the application La you you want to come up La hello oh are we us Laur but I'm going to talk it might be out of order okay I'll tell you why come up are you barar or Laura Barbara okay Barbara so go ahead you're on the list to we've already got caretakers on that street we don't need anymore and so far what I've seen is that property has deteriorated you have to face mic ma'am hello Miss face the mic because we can't the property has deteriorated since he's been there the fence is broken down I watched him break it down myself and it has not been corrected so the property looks terrible so uh and we already have caretakers already there we've already got St Vincent and down that street on First Street we've got all the other caretaking facilities there we don't need another one I'm not and I I'm just I'm not happy with the situation there the parking is

horrible people can I've had people he's had I counted him 11 people living in that house now are they going to where are these caretaker facilities going to be well let me clarify something and I have the applicant come back later I'm I'm not sure it's a caretaker like an assistant living establish let me let me finish please I I don't believe the intent of the caretakers unit and I might be wrong on this but I'll let the applicant explain this I don't believe that his intent is to have a Assistant Living place there that has a caretakers which is which is pretty common in an assistant living place so we'll have the applicant Aron can come back up and explain that to you but I just wanted to clarify that maybe that'll help you out a little bit that will help okay but also the parking that's been there so far has been a nightmare the the residents that are living there have nowhere to park I've even had then I live across the street I've even had some of those people park in front of my house because there's not enough room because there's 11 or 12 people living in that house and I can't we can't address that right now perhaps the the appli well that's a problem for us well I understand what's I understand what you're saying uh and um we'll let the applicant kind of explain why there might be 11 people living there right now I'm not sure well they're not there now but they have been in the past for quite a long time they were there I don't know where they are now okay but this lady right here she lives across the other Street and that parking issue affects her MH very much so and she's going to probably want to come up here and talk to you about that

so yeah I I would like to understand exactly what this is going to be there what the business is going to be what they do and how is that going to affect the rest of us in that neighborhood we let we'll let the applicant come up and explain that again to you thank you appreciate it um I have a Laura Lori Dar Dawson you to okay hi Sean hi John no and I'm sorry I didn't swear the other lady in but uh do you solemly swear and affirm that the testimony you about to do you solemnly swear and affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the whole truth nothing but the truth hope you right okay go right ahead my name is Laura Dawson please call me Lori I live at 221 East Harrison Avenue I've lived there since 1987 and I've seen lots of changes my concern was something different that I thought was happening I didn't realize there is a proposed caretakers unit it's been a c commercial property for a long time different businesses and it's had there before I don't know what kind of needs the people are going to have but that was a bad situation it I'm not I wasn't I wasn't prepared but I'm deeply against having people with special needs living across the street for me especially if they have autism or whatever because they run out of the home and they bang on the window they used to scare my mother and I and I couldn't talk to the I was a prisoner in my own home but anyway but my concerns I wanted to have was because of the area and the growth I have there's parking this is what I was going

to talk about the parking um the garbage the unnecessary garbage the um the trash pickup that I've had to do on my side the street sweepers don't come up and down the street because of all the cars the drains the city the the drain on the corner of the northeast corner of Harrison and second and the drain by my house because of the trash and the non- sweeping I've had to go out there and maintenance myself and it's just ridiculous um but and then there's leaf pickup that we have to worry about in the fall and it's like so I I I'm just concerned about all the extra activity because last summer I did more but that was great I mean I have you know if it's the same people coming back you know we got a system you know nice people eron's great but I'm just concerned at what how's it going to affect the neighbors whatever is going to be in you know having a business out of there is fine but it it affected us so much with the library being changed into the help center there's men shelters women shelters and the Saving Grace for me is the Heritage Health they help the homeless people cuz they were living in the street in the alleys over by I mean sniders left because they couldn't handle the homeless um some of them are by victim you know they lose their job or whatever it's not by choice but some choose to be that way and take drugs and it's scary they walk around the neighborhood in the middle of the night and they come up on your property and they steal things so we just don't need anymore in the neighborhood you know and it's just you can't make a left on a Harrison it just it's just it it just needs some sort of solution in that area like a patrol or you know um come stay with me

it's like it's changed so much and I'm not I'm not opposed to anybody better in themselves but I'm just concerned about what's going to happen to the neighborhood because it just keeps getting more and more um things but but the parking and the the okay my time's out oh go ahead all right okay any questions no we'll have the applicant come up and address some of the issues and stuff yeah it's got to be it's yeah I I lived in that house I'm going to I'm going to probably sell it and move or maybe rent it out okay thank you thank you thank you you're welcome thank you I don't have anyone else to uh before I anyone else here that didn't sign up that wants to speak on this if not Aaron come on up and you can address some of the issues ma'am can you hear us okay while you're sitting back can she come closer yeah if she needs to hear a little bit perhaps hold on good job Tom [Music] oh thank you oh cool give us a second or two eron does that help you Lori can you hear us okay great sorry we didn't catch that before all right Aon go ahead you can

address what you sure just in regards to the accessory um caretakers unit just clarifying what that is um yeah we just want somebody to be living on the property um somebody that will be employed by us um so that it is safe and contributing to the safety of the actual neighborhood um so um just want to clarify exactly what that is we want to contribute to the safety in that area um And in regards to the parking um yeah I mean I do apologize there's been cars there for sure uh five or six I believe at most um but yeah at the at this time we want to convert it from a rental to something that we'll have two cars during the day for business um if there was a Third customer there maybe a third car um and then an accessory dwelling unit um person so that is the anticipation um I believe that would solve uh the issues um I mean in regards to anything else yeah I mean we bought the property we've spent quite a bit of money on architecture trying to do something with it and you know it's been our frustration as well that we've not been able to make the improvements and really clean it up so we filia it's almost taken two years of working with the architect Scott Cranston downtown calan very difficult um to have had that experience um how long it took um but you know it's just what happens sometimes when you're trying to make something better it takes time um so um you know I apologize and I look forward to uh improving this property thank you all right hold on Aon perhaps we'll have a question for you is is it presently being the house that well it's currently unoccupied we plan to once this is approved hit the gas and get everything going if not it'll continue to be a rental um I don't anticipate to put any money into it if I can't do that and get what we want to doet you had a question yeah yes I do c question see if I

understand this correctly currently the property is zoned C1 a PUD whatever that is and that specifies the property was reowned uh with specific limitations that the site layout and used be restricted to REM ing the existing house into an insurance real estate office so that's the way the property currently sits if you want to do anything in that property it has to meet these requirements is that correct that's as currently okay that if you want to do if you want to do anything else you have to have a zone change and the zone change can be either c17 or c17 L you have somebody right next to you that's c17 you have somebody that's right next to you to c17 L my feeling is that that people feel more comfortable with the c17 L than they do with a c17 c17 l is a little bit more restrictive is there anything that does the c17 L meet your requirements um without reviewing them right in front of my me right now I could not tell you that if if our accessory accessory care unit is still um per then I would answer yes all right so what you want specifically is an accessory Care Unit yes correct and if that falls under c17 is that not correct c7l and Hillary I'll let youl can or cannot do based on what the applicant is well I guess it might help to have Sean come back up as well but it sounds like the applicant indicated this evening that he doesn't intend to have that display window or retail sales after we were informed well before this meeting we had no intention and I thought we made that clear so I apologize that that was not presented clearly so cuz the c7n does allow the

caretaker's apartment and it allows service uses including administrative professional offices so I guess the question would be if that would work for his use without having to that additional special use permit yeah I I you know my professional opinion is is if he's using it as strictly as an office space for people to show up open a book similar to interior design or some other things like that then that's more of an office space if they're doing their books if they're running their company somewhere else you know going to the house to install the sighting it's not stored on site no outdoor storage of goods then to me it's it's more of an office space type use so Aaron if you can come back up I'll ask you a question on Bas so it's it your office space c the existing house that you're going to convert into your office space is that what it's going to your intention is 100% okay and then the the the let's call it the apartment not a caretakers unit because that I think g a little confusion here it's going to be an apartment that you're going to rent out or whatever you're going to do so that that person is living there can police your property as well as your office office Absolut space so that hopefully the reoccurrence of things that have happened in the past won't happen again in the future absolutely and as our neighbors made clear it's it's it's just a regular occurrence down there I mean you're talking I mean every week you've got people yelling and screaming walking by at night you know we slept your carak is can only do as so much well they're on the second level so they'll be removed from potentially you're I understand I'm trying to get what the int ention is for the use of your property go so that perhaps the

neighbors can be a little bit more comfortable sure okay so are you aware of the SE seven have you reviewed the c7l the I mean I have not I know that NC and CC also fit my intended use before um if you want to take a minute and go over that and see uh what you think highlighted the milary professional offices there the caretakers apart there it does that would be just fine with us as well and we really are just really trying to take act action with this we we want to get this from a PUD that we we didn't understand when we purchased the property to something that we can move forward with so that's you know that would very well fit our intentions as well okay so you're aware as long as you're aware of if we put forward that the 17l yeah it's just me probably fit well in that category okay but Mr I can also point out that all your intentions are good but tomorrow if this has changed 17l you can sell it tomorrow and whatever is permitted under 17l will go on there I mean that's that's by right that yeah I mean that's fair that's it's nice for us to talk about the details and it's nice for you to commit but it means it doesn't mean that that has to happen if you made change the owners whatnot so we we we have to deal with what is under 17 l or 17 so you feel more you feel comfortable c7l that's um let me ask it's becoming a little difficult because I mean the city came back to me and said are do you want to go with c17 you know I'm just trying to to to do I mean for me it's like I want to do something here and both of these seem to fit they both have the accessory Care caretaking Unit if this seems to fit the neighborhood's Vision better like I'm for that like that's that's cool with I mean 100% like but we're trying yeah the difference between the C7 it's a broad spectrum sure

c7l it's not as broad but I'm not intending to sell the property um immediately I'm not intending to maximize my value I'm intending to use this as a professional office so I would leave that in into you guys to say hey what's what is your best terms and vision of it I mean to be honest it works for me either way so Randy let me ask you this since we have a application for a change from c17 PUD to c17 can we make a recommendation um to a c17 l how do we do this uh if the applicant is willing to do that you are making a recommendation to city council as to the new zoning and you can do any anything as long as the applicant is willing and it's in the in the same ballpark okay so if because if this depending on where this goes then it goes to city council for the final stamp yeah and if we make a recommendation for c7l that recommendation goes to city council if you're in agreement to that and um I'm hearing you are yeah absolutely okay so that goes to city council and hopefully they'll take our recommendation and then it'll move forward from there sounds great okay um can I ask one more question about the caretaker's unit it would be above the garage absolutely yeah so and maybe this is a little bit to Sean or Hillary um so Community commercial you could have the caraker unit above the garage without a special use permit is that correct we yes we did that for which was the one on Fourth Street right so we allowed it over the garage for that one and he could still have his office and that is still the mo more restrictive than c7l it would allow both of his uses but still be more restrictive for the

Neighbors that's correct I believe it has a little bit more buffering it does have more buffering and I feel like when you look at c7l these are not your uses Aaron but um you get into a boarding house group dwelling um Community Education you know some more uses that require a a significant amount of parking or like a re religious use um but Community commercial which fits all of his uses that he's currently wanting which would get his project going without a special use permit um would also limit the uses for the Neighbors um to really it says retail personal services commercial and professional office Medical Dental daycare residential above the ground floor only and a park which I think you guys see all this on this I feel like that one is probably the best of the balances between the two the neighborhood commercial could also work as well but I feel like those meet eron's needs without a special use permit and also kind of fit the neighborhood maybe the best I agree and uh let me ask Aaron a question are you familiar with the community commercial I mean generally speaking um I believe Sean KK mm did we not look at that before was that the one yes so initially um before we gave Aaron the the the opportunity or the you know what you want it to be we sat down and looked at the future land use map and those CC and NC are allowed under um what it the community let's get back up here real quick so as the compact neighborhood yeah and so that

particular future land use does allow for and CC okay so we're we're but since it was c17 PUD and that's the way existed today we said you have a choice if you want to to make those calls but be aware Planning Commission and city council make the ultimate determination okay so yeah I mean I feel like that one fits the neighborhood the best it gets him going right away which is good for both ways both parties and um it kind of protects the neighborhood a little more than the other uses even probably even neighborhood commercial cuz it does not allow gas gas station okay um Phil go ahead it just seemed to oh hold on Phil had a questioning I don't have a I don't really have a concern with the office type use the area there along Harrison is rapidly changing and I think a few years it may be totally changed I would want to make sure whatever we do keeps that change to the Harrison Frontage you have St Vincent's to you you have commercial or similar to commercial across the street at Third Street on Harrison you have an office on both sides of the street both north and south and to the extent that you want to do the office shoes I don't really see that as a problem my concern is the zoning vehicle that we do it through now I'm not big on spot zones and all of a sudden to say we have this commercial area or this NC area is a spot Zone and I have a hard time with that but something Peter brought up earlier are you able or would you even consider providing a covenant limiting the uses to office type

uses but I don't think we can do that with the zone change of volunteer it Randy can you give us a little light on that we do a c177 it's going to be whatever c17 allows falls under the conditional zoning and and that's not really applicable here so no we can't restrict no if you sell it tomorrow that c17 is wide open so yeah okay uh Peter I'm well just it's you know we we went back 46 years I'll go forward 46 years you know you don't have to be a weatherman know which way the wind's blowing on is will come back sometime but if you look at this c17 is all this stuff is red you know it's moving that way you know and I I understand what you're saying about you know smaller but it would seem to me that that the proper Zoning for this is either c17 or c7l uh uh consistent with what's going on I I would I would like to continue with c7l I I have considered it and um I mean I did not actually know that that was going to be an option but it just seems to me the most reasonable thing to remove the Pud um to go with an l i mean the it just to me uh it it just makes sense but U that's what I would like to continue going with okay would you be willing to do a neighborhood commercial uh I mean at this point I I mean I don't know what difference it really provides um I I'd be willing to take another look but it just you know we we it wouldn't it wouldn't prohibit any of your uses it would just prohibit the options that are by right yeah NC and CC so you wanted me to consider CC again um NC or CC probably NC is probably the the best one because it does uh restrict it from being a gas station

uh which doesn't apply to you but could be a concern of the Neighbors in the future cc is no gas station yeah you would be troubled to fit a gas station on that you would be I mean but I think that just that you know puts that as a specific what am I limiting myself to the top seven why don't we take give yourself a minute yeah so you know you and go over both of NC and CC and see which you're most comfortable with and I understand what um commissioner McCracken is saying because we have it in front of us and we've looked at it so there not that much of a difference but so take your time no I think we're going to continue with a c17 l i mean if I was to ever sell the property I don't think it would be in the best interest to limit um a new owner to not be able to do duplexes or anything like that um given the fact that that is permitted in c17 now and not permitted in in NC and CC I just I mean I can't tell you right now that you know someday when C Lan 50 years from now becomes dense enough that that won't be a better use of that property um okay so to me I can't make that call and I I think that the the you know restricting Property Owners um you know given I think what is pretty pretty it's a c17 now um I mean I'm for sure okay with limited I I I I mean for me my intended use is going to play out uh for a number of years but um to to limit the the future owner to that I that's your guys's call um I would feel more comfortable if you have a very strong recommendation I I would proceed at that point um with ACC but uh unless it's a that's clearly what you guys think is

the best use I I think c17 L is the best use the property from my analysis and um let me ask Hillary this on the c17 L it has more uses let's say duplexes and home uh occupation boarding it's a whole list of things they if someone wants to if this goes to c17 L and this shes goes in there and then someone wants to come in and put duplex housing up there would they have to come back to do for parking or allowed if they wanted to do retail or something that's in that special use permit column they would have to come back otherwise it's permitted by right they just have to go through the process work with staff make sure it meets all the code requirements okay okay any other questions all right I'm going to close public testimony on this and bring commission for further discussion and a motion so what we have before us yes is to change it to c17 L if that would be your motion but that's yes we can change it to c7l we can change it to and if it is changes 17 now the the applicant agrees to that he he supports that he is we're in if we do c7l we we are and the applicant and the and planning zoning are consistent yes the applicant mentioned he prefers c7l but again we can make any type but that's yes yeah we don't have to just limit it to c7l we can do NC we can do CC so more discussion i i i motion don't believe appropriate to change it other than c7l I think

was we' commented it sort of spot zoning I don't know if spot zoning is a it sounds like that but you just look what's around here it's all c17 c7l but anyway well I see the c17 L's uh L uh gives the opportunity at least to do duplexing duplex houses which which is in some of that area there are some duplexes I believe um for some of the properties that have changed um the NC really just takes away let's say the duplex um opportunity so well the lot's not large enough to boost it to a juvenile offenders facility it's not big enough to be a hospital um so the s the size of that lot by itself is too small to do uh an exploded uh rehabilitative facility or religious assembly c7l or c7l goes on and extends it past what we really are seeing here is trying to let it stay and fit into the current neighborhood and try not to do damage to the adjacencies um but there are a number of fa Civic activities that are allowed here but that size lot unless it buys adjacencies has no potential to be those heavily impacting facilities so I think c7l fits nicely currently it doesn't harm the adjacencies and the residential size and feel of the neighborhood and it gets away from the free-for-all of a c17 c17 is just too explosive at this point in time it may shift in the years ahead but I think that we're better fit for c7l rather than um trying to push it into these smaller NC and CC uses um I there

will be code related sidewalks uh demands and probably driveway demands and curb cuts and all that but this gentleman can achieve what he wants without hurting the neighborhood too badly I think you'll take care of the parking which is a big issue when you've got a bunch of I saw the street it's it's got a lot of cars on it a lot of people packing two and three and four cars per house so I think that he'll also address that um and I think that the approach is light-handed so I would say that c7l would make the sense anyone else discussion motion I'm willing to make a motion sure um okay this matter having come before the Planning and Zoning Commission on February 11th 2025 to consider z z c 1-25 request for a zone change from c17 p UD to a c17 l on a parcel measuring 0.213 Acres the applicant is Aaron Moe the location is northwest corner of East Harrison Avenue and North 2 Street commonly known as 213 East Harrison Avenue uh the planning finding of facts the Planning and Zoning commission finds the following facts A1 through a15 have been established as more than probable than a b not basis as shown on the record before it and that includes posting um the notification to the public posting it in the newspaper um notifications throughout um various sites in the city uh A8 surrounding um 213 eth Harrison Avenue is characterized by a mix of historical development and gradual transformation the area is predominantly residential featuring early to mid-century homes in a variety of architectural Styles including Craftsman Bungalows traditional cottages and ranch style homes A9 the comp plan

future land use map designated as a compact Neighborhood Place type uh and A10 according to the comp plan the compact Neighborhood Place is described as places that are medium density residential areas located primarily in older locations of cordelan um and A1 staff has identified the following comp plan goals and objectives as being applicable to this matter um community and identity that C1 uh it the citizens are well informed we've brought this forward in full disclosure and we fostered um and included the neighborhood in this conversation uh growth and development we've de we are this is all part of a developed mix of land uses throughout the city and this particular area is just that it's a mixture of commercial residential multifam um duplexes and um this property fits in currently with that um topography and land use um we also are looking at improving infrastructure the uh owner will then um comply with widening sidewalks and improving um the neighborhood uh a12 the applicant has indicated that if this zone change request is approve it intends to use the property for a professional management office in the existing residential structure and build a caretakers or a um a an apartment unit uh to oversee and protect the property and get a good security system that's what I would recommend um however it should be noted that the zone change is approved all uses within the c17 L zoning District um A3 City departments have indicated that water uh Wastewater Etc are all um provided to this area and that s sidewalks hydrants and storm water will be addressed at the time of construction A14 the subject property is

approximately 9,411 ft F feet in size and contains a house and pave driveway off Second Street it's relatively flat with minimal landscaping and improvements will be required to meet our local codes uh city engineer has indicated that I think it's barely 18 trips a day it's not um massive impact on traffic on Harrison and can I stop you on there can you change on a15 if that's where you're at A5 one business instead of two oh yeah one business office and a caretakers or um yeah ad unit yeah um and then finally conclusions of law based on the foregoing findings of fact the Planning and Zoning commission makes the following conclusions of law B1 The Proposal is in conformance with the comprehensive plan policies B2 public facilities and utilities are available and are adequate for the proposed use B3 the physical characteristics of the site do make it suitable for the request the proposal would not adversely affect the surrounding neighborhood character and or with regard to traffic neighborhood character or existing land uses um finally the planning zoning commission pursuant to the forgoing findings of fact and conclusion of law has determined that the requested zone change does comply with the required evaluation criteria and recommends that the city council does adopt this property under the the c17 L zoning thank you I have a motion need a second second I have comment discuss yeah um I still kind of feel like the neighborhood commercials a better fit I feel like even though the lot's small it's not maybe going to be a lot of these uses the outside an accessory use to c7l would be the outside storage of goods when when related to

the principal use and I that little block on Harrison between government and forth I mean you can't you can't take a left off second most of the time a day anyway and so I I just feel like some of these uses aren't really compatible with the heavier activities that may require lots of deliveries and that kind of thing it pushes all of that to the residential streets on the side so um I would still prefer the neighborhood commercial because I think it still achieves Aaron's goals with then protects the neighborhood that would be my um take on it just because of that small section between the two um especially with the elementary school on that street it's just certain times a day that is already a very congested block okay further discussion before I have roll call all right can we have a roll call please Fleming yes McCracken no blue trip yes Ward yes missa yes okay okay motion passes congratulations good luck to you uh if we have a motion to adjourn no we have another thing I have the presentation for you let's see oh I'm sorry I want to go home his brain's gone sorry other business been so long since we had longer than you thought it would great I mean if you want to this week do that commissioner Fleming had suggested since we only had the one item tonight that this would be a good opportunity meeting to give you an update on some of the things that staff has been working on with our working group related to the downtown core and infill and also I'm going to give you an update on our historic preservation commission so with

that I'll start with the downtown core infill working group update you are very familiar so this is for you also for the public um Council City Council had asked us based on a lot of feedback from community members to evaluate our zoning code and our design guidelines related to what's allowed in the downtown Corp and the infill areas surrounding the downtown and so we started work on that uh and I'll kind of walk through what we've been doing so far so some of the guidance they gave us initially was to incorporate a historic preservation perspective to evaluate the development potential of downtown so looking at what's allowed in our current code and what that could look like if we built out under the current code also looking at impacts of the current code on infrastructure and traffic and looking at possible alternatives to height and F which is floor area ratio So currently you can go up to 220 ft tall in the downtown if you can meet all the floor area ratio bonuses and so we've been receiving some Community feedback that maybe that's too tall and that might be taking away from the character of the downtown and potentially could contribute to a loss of some of the historic characteristics of the downtown also evaluating what's allowed currently with the floor area ratio bonuses and looking at other communities to see how they are addressing these same issues and what guidelines and standards they put into place and then of course a big component as we get further along will be making sure we're engaging the stakeholders so the property owners the businesses those that are downtown as well as the rest of the community and getting input from them and doing communication so here is a list of our working group members so two of our Planning and Zoning Commissioners are on the working group so thank you to John and Lynn and then John also is representing DRC he's on our design review commission and we have Jeff lemon on there as well we have

three historic preservation commission members that commission is nine members so we are able to pull in three and not have to worry about kind of quum or having too many people so those members are on there our chair and um um our vice chair so Walter Burns is the chair anelisa Miller is the vice chair and then chanon sardell we have Emily Boyd from the Downtown Association and then we have design professionals assisting us Kevin Jester and John Mueller our city council liaison is Dan gken and then we have staff from planning building streets and engineering and then we're going to Loop in fire and police and our utilities as needed so here is the downtown core boundaries so the bigger boundary here kind of the the dash line is the downtown core and then this area with this fuchsia coloring is the area that's mandatory review of the design review commission so the areas outside of that it would just be a staff review of any proposals that come through and then the infill areas that we're talking about with this working group are the downtown North and the downtown overlay East the Midtown overlay we're not looking at at this time and so here's kind of a closeup of the downtown North it's a little tricky because there's underlying zoning and so you have to look at both the existing zoning and then the overlay and then there's the downtown core that overlaps some of it so we've talked about maybe separating that out making it easier to administer and then here is the downtown over lay East Boundary again there's a variety of zoning districts that are within that so so far we've had 12 meetings with the working group we've been trying to have two meetings a month we've had a few months with we couldn't achieve that but we've been working hard to to kind of go through a lot of material and evaluate the code and look at other communities and come up with some recommendations so we're still working through the process our first meeting

was last May and then we did a check-in with City Council in July and here is the feedback that Council gave us they said we like where you're going we definitely do want you to consider the view corridors and the towers they did like reserving kind of a historic core that would have limited Heights and then having some historic characteristics on the Main Street so looking at how the design guidelines would interplay with that addressing parking kind of our current parking standards and the fee andl of option that you could pay a fee instead of providing parking they wanted us to definitely look at the F bonuses to see which ones could be removed and then if other ones should be added they asked us to also look at should we make Sherman Avenue and Lakeside into oneway street so this was evaluated a number of years ago but this is something that they've asked us to look at again um they want us to incorporate Public Safety so work closely with police and fire as we get further along and then to they liked the idea of us doing modeling so kind of evaluating the development potential using software and also working with University of Idaho architecture program to do some cost savings so that was their feedback so efforts to date we have reviewed our existing code our existing design guidelines as well as there's a number of historic documents that have been done there's been Economic Development studies done for the city for the downtown so looking at those we have outlined some desired scenarios to model so kind of what could be full build that under the current conditions and then looking at some varying changes to height and kind of f or things like that we've had conversations with University of Idaho's architecture professor about getting some of their graduate students to help us with modeling and also helping us with imagery for design guidelines and then we have met with Ali Marino from coutney me Metropolitan planning

organization about traffic modeling based on the scenarios we have looked at the development standards we spent quite a a bit of time on that and looked at the F bonuses and we have looked at our design guidelines as well as other communities and I'll show you an example of that um and then as I mentioned for those overlay districts we've discussed it might be a lot easier for everyone if we just created separate zoning districts instead of having three different zoning districts with an overlay on top of it and trying to figure out how that works with the code consistency and then we also looked at outdoor lighting considerations at our last meeting so we've been busy so one of the other things that um Sean and Mike Barry have been doing is we've been working on trying to do a base model and create what we call a digital twin so it's working with ezri software which is you're familiar with our GIS map we can see a lot of you can look on our map on the city's website and see the zoning layers and partial information well there's all this technology available now where you can actually create basically what looks like here 3D modeling and you can build it up and you can do it based on existing plans you can turn around you can look at Shadows you can look at sight lines you can look at all these different things so they've been looking at some different scenarios and so this image here and I'll show you a few more is kind of what exists now as well as what's under construction currently so we have the Sherman tower for the resort we have the Thomas George here and then the Marriott is here so that shows those three here's the same thing just kind of a turned view so we're kind of looking this way is east here's another one looking more directly east this is Sherman Avenue here and this would be that Sherman tower for the resort and this would be the Maria and then a couple of other funds and areas just to kind of look at we're going to discuss this more tomorrow with the working group but you know looking

at could you what if we added some 110t Towers on Front Avenue what does that look kind of the massing and the shadow lines and all of that and here's somewhere what if we you know under the current code or even if it intensified could you get even taller than the 220 ft what that looks like so where you know where Towers could be placed kind of just theoretically and what that looks like and here's another image of that so just thought it'd be fun for you to see some of the behind the scenes um with Mike's retiring we're going to be needing to lean More on University of Idaho for having them help with this because this is a big lift to learn the software and to do the the modeling and Analysis we have been looking as I mentioned at other communities design guidelines and one of the ones we really liked is Callis spell they have done a nice job of addressing historic preservation but allowing modern architecture to be built so they're not trying to create a false sense of history but allowing things that are compatible so you can kind of see the scale and the size and some of the design elements really fit well with the historic architecture but it is modern design and so looking at you know what they've done to incorporate that in terms of language and imagery so we have a lot still to do so here's kind of a list of our next steps so mentioned previously we want to look at what are those boundaries and how do we address the infill areas look at the parking uh in addition to parking ratios and that fee and lie of we've talked about too there's some developers that have done parking that they're required to do but then they turn around and lease it out or charge more for their renters and so should that be something that gets addressed as well with the code because if they charge more then they park on the street or have to get parking permits elsewhere if it's cheaper so that's one of the things um we need to do some additional modeling to really truly come up with those scenarios and then once we have those scenarios f figure out what does that look like for Ed types the square footage and then run that through the

traffic modeling and run that through for impacts on utilities and traffic when they pay fee and Lee of parking how can they pay fee and Lee of all parking um they can can they we haven't we've had very few developers that have taken advantage of the cost of it is and we're we probably need to look at what the actual cost of fee and louv should be nowadays I mean our fees are based on 15 years ago or more for the fan Lou of but it's it's very expensive to to do that okay um Also let's see already mentioned want to make sure we look at the allowable Heights and that looking at the oneway roads and what the impacts would be to traffic for that making sure we get input from Public Safety stakeholders and then once we have all that kind of put it together in a a draft get more input from the public and others and then bring that to this Commission and then to city council for consideration of both the development standards and the design guidelines um we've also talked about it would be great to have some of the University of Idaho students actually package up the design guidelines because that was something that previously we had Mark Henshaw and his company they put that together for us and found the images and we thought that would be a nice student project so with that i' stand for any questions I got a quick question on the fa artillery or CU I know presently what we have right what kind of input were you getting to say like what can you increase the fa FS or what are you going to give us if you want more F ARS so I mean what was kind of the discussion on that and then um also uh expanding the area for the um design review right besides what we have right now and or maybe I don't know if the discussion was to um lower the square footage of some buildings because I

think there are some that if it's over certain a largest square footage yes it'll go to the design review there's been any discussion on square footage changing for design review based on buildings and stuff I'll answer that one first we have not addressed that yet so that's very preliminary kind of discussion but that would be something that would make sense because you're right if it's a very small thing maybe it doesn't need to come for commission review and it could just be staff so we'll look at that but that would be yeah very good input we would want from this commission and from the working group the other one on the floor area ratio So currently there's things that are you can get a bonus if you have Recreation space so if you're provide a gym within a facility that's only for people that live in that building that can be a bonus um so there's just some things that it's like do we really need that there's water features there's some other things that we thought do does that make sense and Council said we don't want those as bonuses but other ones we talked about that would be really important would be Workforce housing how do you incentivize that no one has ever taken advantage of it it's currently in the code but how do you so you have to make it a bigger bonus and how do you trying to figure out realistically what does that look like to achieve that so it's really kind of just a overhaul of the F bonuses and looking at other communities to see what they've done but we've allowed some kind of neat ones like even public restroom would be a new Option even like an indoor public space so some communities have like a really neat kind of Atrium space as to the public so it could be year round space where you can kind of go in there and you know get out of the weather so there's some different ones we're looking at incorporating and then if you get rid of the overlay you'd get rid of both overlays and then just re have a downtown Zone um we've talked about doing so the downtown core Zone and then possibly instead of the downtown North that would just be maybe like North or I don't know Downtown North zone or whatever it would be and then downtown east maybe we aren't into that yet but um we just talked about

it'd be nice to simplify it because it's I mean it's similar to the application today where if you have these little puds that was a random one but or like overlays for someone purchasing the property that's very clear what the restrictions are on it um when you went to the one of the I think it was the last of the little map slides um it looks like right by the entrance to the City Hall parking lot is like one little that little parcel little two Parcels at the bottom is there a reason why those are separate um the property owner I believe it was this one kept asking city council to include that in the downtown east but they're all downtown east even that one is our new mut Museum site right where the White House has been relocated so oh okay that's that property but so this one is kind of an unusual boundary so yes even looking at okay do these making them make more sense yeah would be nice and then we talked about too with the downtown east should that also include kind of the East Sherman area that we've discussed so that then you know becomes bigger it's a bigger task but those are some of the things we've okay discussed as well you're welcome go ahead Peter Mr jar I think that this committee that Hillary's on is working on this is excellent and you're it's to me it's what was going on is similar to how we how Atlas was started different uh uh it was similar Atlas wanted Waterfront we wanted to do something to have Waterfront for the public and the city went through a process a rather elaborate one and it resulted in open Waterfront for the city and other and buildings in this one the city has a desire to keep this this our downtown area in a certain form in a

certain fashion in a certain way and we understand proper rights and so forth but still we were going ahead to try to see what we can do to keep cordelane like like cordelane and your group that you're working with that's working on this is going to be a lot of work a lot more but it's well taken and and you you're to be complimented on taking a task like this on because it it it will be uh uh two meetings a month it may be a lot but you're going to accomplish it's a small investment I I you're be congratulated look forward to seeing the next report thank you okay with that I'll um go on to the historic preservation commission efforts if I may yeah were there other questions okay oh I'm sorry Phil go ahead yeah hillo just out of curiosity I mean I know everyone complains about height and they think 20 story buildings these are horrible we got to abolish them not my game but that's another story but is there anyone looking at the height of the apartments around town liit of four stories if they were five they'd have to be sprinkled which makes more cost but may also generate more construction and more buyers and actually bring prices down somewhat but I just think you know it's either the four or 22 is just kind of a dichotomy that doesn't really work very well I help we have not yet looked at the zoning outside of kind of the downtown area to determine that that would be something that could be discussed with this Commission in the future So currently if you're doing multif family you'd be 45 ft tall would be kind of your general one unless you do the R34 density increase to get to 63 feet tall so that would be kind of the unless you have a mixed use commercial building where commercial is more than 51% then you're can be unlimited but that's not we haven't seen that happen but you're

right that could be something to look at to incentivize additional development okay I will talk about the historic preservation commission efforts briefly so as you're aware that commission was formed in 2019 with the goal of preserving our historic buildings and neighborhoods and there are a number of Duties I won't list or I won't say them all that are listed on the screen but these are from our code but I put in bold the ones that really are relevant that they've been very active in in terms of designating or recommending designation of historic properties and historic districts and then making recommendations in the planning process under processes undertaken by the city recommending ordinances and actions they have recently we've been working on a demolition review process so they can enter properties and take photos for documentation and then also taking public comment and testimony on issues of historic importance here is a list of our commission members and in addition we have a city council Lea on so Kiki Miller is our liais on key accomplishments so we not only we were kind of formed quickly we became a certified local government and had our ordinance all in 2019 and then we quickly thereafter we received Grant funds and we worked on a historic preservation plan that was adopted by City Council in 2021 the commission itself wasn't directly involved in the Hamilton house preservation and getting that listed in the National register of historic places but they were instrumental in helping kind of provide that support and doing a review of that nomination that would go to toward the state historic preservation office and then to the National Park Service for final listing uh last year was the first year we started celebrating may as preservation month so that's kind of a national event and so we'll be doing that again this year and we started a heart of History award programed two years ago and so last year that was rolled into the the

preservation month celebration and then currently we are finishing up the Garden District nomination to the National register of historic places that is uh very soon going to be going from the state historic preservation office to National Park Service and we hope to get it listed early this year the commission was also involved and worked closely with staff on efforts and Community activists on helping preserve the Roosevelt Inn and so worked closely with Randy Adams on coming up with a facade easement to help preserve the exterior of the structure and require that the new owners would preserve that then also worked with the commission and staff to bring forward a temporary moratorium to city council so that was adopted that expired in December and then we've had some recent success with doing some salvaging so you guys saw some photos I believe and there was some in the paper and commissioner Fleming wrote a little my turn in there about that so these are the Vault doors from the Johnston building which was a Bank building built in 1905 and they are pretty impressive doors so they have both been salvaged yeah they are gorgeous so we also have a new demolition review process so we've had our first meeting with an applicant and trying to provide input um we've like to have the discussion with them to say is it possible to preserve the structure and if not would you consider some input on the new structure so they're not going to say no you can't demolish it but they'd like to offer some input on how the new structures could be more compatible with the historic character of the neighborhoods and Hillary on that is that more of just a discussion recommendation because I believe I read in the paper or heard that you know the the um person who was going to change that building just said thanks but I'll consider it but you really don't have to

do anything that's correct on that particular case as far as we we have not received any requests to do a variance um that was a recommendation of the commission to the applicant to consider doing a variance to reduce the sidey setback to allow the garage and the driveway to access off the side street to make it fit more with the neighborhood and I think based on timing and cost process the applicant um decided not to at least pursue it for applying this month um so I don't I don't know if it's going to happen but um at this point seems are they the unlikely the histor commission looking or the um discussions to say all right put a little more teeth into something like that how can you have so one without taking their rights away say well yeah we'll let you demo but we want to see this instead of that um the commission at this point is just kind of evaluating the process and trying to figure out you know how to improve it and then if if that is a desire definitely have to go to City Council and get their okay blessing they'd have to change the code to have it be that way at this point it's just a recommendation um they get to review the ones that they select to say if it was built prior to 1960 and it is of historic significance we want to review it as a commission and then before they can demo it we have the meeting and then also there's an opportunity to enter the property take photos and recommend salvaging of important items so but it's yeah it's just a recommendation at this point right and is there anything on the would the historic commission have anything to do with the new perhaps overlays downtown on Sherman since yes so that's so three of them are on that working group for that very reason to make sure that we have that that interface and getting their input on that okay great I'm sorry go ahead no problem and then another one we recently had just a very small stakeholder meeting with some Property Owners along the government way Corridor because

that's been identified as an area that has a lot of historic integrity and the neighbors are really cohesive and have done some things in the past to protect the trees along the median and so kind of visiting with them and getting their input on you know what what are things they'd like to preserve and what changes concern them in the neighborhood to see if they might want to do something related to Historic preservation so can I ask you another question real quick given what you just said you know like um government way and some of those historic looking type of existing homes and new homes going in there which we've seen that they don't match too well they're nice houses but they're not would the further discussion on the design review guidelines expand to any of those areas that the uh historic preservation commission is looking at to say Hey you know here's some design guidelines can we have discussed so there's some different options so city council when we brought forward the historic preservation plan and they adopted that it has some language in there to look at the option of doing historic overlay zones and within that we anticipated it might be similar to an optin where the neighbors would say we want to have this designation and it might have certain design criteria you know not super specific not saying what color you know exactly what you know finals or things like that but just are there certain things that they might want to consider so you know if there's an alley use the alley for that maybe the accessory dwelling unit has to look like the primary home certain things like that are basically we're going to be asking some of the neighborhoods do they want to do that or not so at this point it's really up for discussion it I don't anticipate it would become something that would be a design review commission item okay but it might be something that would be in the future either or something if they opt in and it gets that designation either staff would review or maybe historic preservation commission but the commission really wants a light touch but wants maximum effect right so it's

this whole balancing act like we want to protect property rights but we also want to make sure that all of the neighborhoods don't change so significantly people don't recognize C Lane yeah I have a question kind of related to that on the Garden District um so their application and you can maybe clarify because I don't know if I have all the details right but the the there's a boundary that was submitted with that application and it's not approved yet but there are contributing homes and not contributing homes and so the contributing homes are pre-1 1960 is that right um they so it's 50 years or older so for the demolition review we chose prior to 1960 just so we' kind of limit um but for historic preservation for the national register it's 50 years or older is historic is a contributing home so and well so okay so there's a couple different parts so so yes it has to meet kind of that age but also it has to be a certain architectural style that's representative of cord Lan's history and hasn't been significantly modified over time so there's different ways that the we bring in an expert that helps us do this analysis and they kind of identify so there might be a home that was built in 1940 but it has been covered and has this huge addition and so now it's non-contributing because it looks nothing like it did when it was built so it's not really helping contribute to the historic character of the neighborhood so in that application my understanding is the amount of contributing is like the low 50s like low 50% so it's kind of confusing so the total number is over 60% are contributing in order to be a historic district you need to be 51% or more um for the national register the National Park Service added within the last year that you have to evaluate out buildings as well and so when you average those it brought it into the 50 percentile for contributing and so that makes it really tricky because there's a lot of out buildings that even if they were built in the 1920s are not contributing because they're dilapidated you know so

it's it becomes kind of a weird math so I guess with for the example the one that went before the historic preservation commission right was one home on a double lot correct and so that one home was contributing and it's going to be torn down and have two homes that are non-contributing that's correct so if we're already really close to that buffer I guess is there some urgency in having an overlay to protect that before we get into the not qualifying I guess numbers on that um that's a good question because that I guess that's a concern like when they're getting torn down to build two non-contributing homes and we're already really close to that percentage so I guess I would just encourage like you know some movement on that before we I I know it was really close I was kind of surprised how close we were to that not um qualifying number great question go yes H as I understand it if the house was built before 1960 it is considered to be potentially historic I just have to say you have any idea how disconcerting this for me knowing my age we've all had those conversations because it's actually 50 years or older for the other yes yeah um so we also are working with a consultant and tomorrow will be a kickoff meeting for downtown reconnaissance level survey which is evaluating all of the structures in the downtown area and this will be great it'll really interface well with the work we're doing with a working group to understand what exists now the characteristics of the buildings the heights massing all those different things and then the age and the architecture and all of that so that's exciting work here's the boundary of that survey

area and then for preservation month there's already work and discussion underway about what to do this may so we'll continue with the momentum we've been building and do another reception do the heart of History Awards if Garden distri gets officially listed we're hoping it'll be before May so that can be celebrated with some tours and an event and then doing some additional Outreach and then working with Museum of North Idaho and the cutney County's historic preservation commission and then this is the kind of the last slide so as noted the HPC we've had Representatives working on that downtown Corp and infield working group to make sure we have that communication and then we are discussing the historic overlay district and then also are there other changes to the zoning code without doing an overlay that maybe we should be looking at you know we're starting to see some maybe not some so compatible development in our residential areas there's the shop houses and some other things that would really fit in a historic district and lot coverage and massing and some other things that might be worthy of looking at separate from an overlay District so um with kind of all that in mind we have had a request from our historic preservation commission to do a joint workshop with Planning and Zoning Commission in March to really start kind of talking about those things and so we'll be working with your schedules and theirs and get something on the books great that stand for questions thank you any questions for Hillary nope before we let her go home thank you okay thank you Hillary that was great I really appreciate it thanks okay now I can have a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn I have a motion I have first and I have a second all in favor have discussion but no thank you no all in favor okay we are a journ thank youu did you call did you call

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