City Council - Regular Meeting

same thing with more. I don't know what more means, but it says more on here. Uh at uh the North Idaho College Library parking lot. So, in order to celebrate that, get your free tree, get some planting going, and join us in celebration. Thank you. Did you want to say anything about the compost? Well, no, I'll wait till next year. Okay. All right. Well, remember I'll remind you. Yes, Christie.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just wanted to update council that park and wreck met last night. Uh we had a number of um agenda items that will come to council. There's not going to be a general services because we're doing a budget workshop at the end of the month and so some of those items are going to come directly to us on May 5th. There's one item that we did table. It just needed a little more um added to the staff report. There will be some reach out to police and fire for input from them. Then it'll come back it and I'll just give you a reference uh some usage of our parks and it'll come back to park and wreck for review and then it'll come then it'll probably go to a general services and then eventually make it to all of you. But I want to give a shout out to our interim parks director Adam Ross. He's doing a great job. The the committee really appreciates his leadership and uh I look forward to many more meetings with him.

Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, Dan English. Yeah, just to say that well and I'm the liaison to the library and we've had some very good meetings and um you know as you can imagine we get a lot of different messages and stuff and today I got one that uh meant a lot to me that said to me that uh just want you to know that I'm going to be um you know tuning in tonight to the meeting and you know, hope that it'll all go well. You treated each other right and he said that he um

good Dan

prays for the city and its people every day. Thank you, Dan. Anyone else? Okay, I have a couple of things to say. Okay. So, there have been questions regarding the appointments coming up and I was just going to remind everyone about the process we went through and that the responsibility for making the appointment was agreed upon to be Ron Jacobson's and that's what came forward and that vote failed. And after that vote failed, uh Ron and I sat around like what do we do? And so we kind of said, well, let's kick it down the road and have the next guy deal with it. And we were good with that. Then there was requests from council members to revisit the items. So discussing with our legal department, I was like, well, how do you put these items on the agenda? And since Ron made the appointment of Greg Jagger, the language is that Ron is making that appointment. I was also request to put Dave Hagar on the agenda and I am making that appointment u through Idaho statute. The uh the hangup for this and just to let you know before we get into it is that I will not be voting. I believe the statutes say that I cannot break a tie on this type of appointment. So I would also like to see consensus on council. So I don't want to see a split council again. Anyway, there's that. The other item which is Did

I ask you a question? Yeah, I have a question for Amy has a question. Um, when you say vote failed, when it's a three-3 tie, does that is that a failed vote or it just dies? Uh, nomenclature, right? I think it is. A three three vote is uh essentially a defeat of the motion. A tie is okay. That the motion does not pass. Thank you. Yeah. So, it just and and you can say it either way. It doesn't to me it's it's it's one way or the other. I would also like to Mike if you could put the picture up

on the screen. I know we've had some technical difficulties. I blame Windows 11, but anyway, I will read this. I don't know. Oh, there it is. Very good. Um, please join us in extending our heartfelt condolences to the family of Kenneth Earl Timmons. Ken served with the Cordelane Police Department beginning in June 1971, dedicated three decades of service and retired and retiring as a respected police captain in June 2002. He was widely known for his strong commitment to the community and for always being willing to lend a helping hand to offer support at any hour. We honor his many years of dedicated service and extend our deepest sympathies to his family and loved ones during this difficult time. I also have an appointment to make which I cannot break the tie again. This will be appointment of Bruce Martinek to the urban forestry committee.

So moved. Second. We have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? All those in favor? I I I. Any opposed? The motion carries. Moving on to item H, our consent calendar. Mr. Mayor, I'll make a motion to approve the consent calendar as presented. Second motion a second. Any discussion on the consent calendar? Roll call, please. Evans, yes. Sheckler, yes. Miller, I. Gabriel, yes. English, yes. Wood, yes.

Very good. The motion passes. Moving on to item I, other business. Going to start with resolution number 26032 which is approval of a letter of agreement with Kenan Johnson and Paddlepub CDA LLC for commercial use of the city streets for recreational transit. This is an item that has come to council before and Kelly setters will be delivering our staff report. Kelly, hello. Good evening. So, I'm here to um go over a pol tr trolley pub proposal from Keenan Johnson. And you are familiar with this. You approved it last year

um for um operation of the trolley on city streets to have alcohol. Um so, we have to have an agreement um approved by council. So, there's two tours. There's a family friendly tour and a 21 and over pub tour. So, this would run from seasonally from May to October. And the tours are Monday through Sunday and they're 2 hours long. And all tours begin at uh Jeremiah Johnson Brewery. The scenic tours run daily from 8 to 3:00 p.m. and they also um stop at the carousel and they go to Fort Sherman for a brief moment. This is the map of that family tour and the alcohol establishment tour. There are four um pubs that they have chosen to um take guests to. And everybody on the trolley has to be 21 years and over. And the guests can bring their own sealed beer and only drink it on the trolley. And they cannot take it with them when they stop to visit these pubs. And here's the tours. They're going to have four tours a day for that. And here it the map kind of changed a little bit this year. They added the backwood bar. So they're going to go all the way down East Sherman and back. So that's an addition from last year. So with that, I ask council to approve a letter of agreement with Kenan Johnson for commercial use of city streets for recreational transit. And I stand for any questions you may have. Um, Kelly, I do have a question. If you could back up

two slides to the map that shows the inebriated journey. Um, so they're going down is is going down Fifth Street. Is that the new thing? No, that's the same. So they did it last year. They have to go down Fifth because of fourth is the one way going north, right? So they have to go down fifth and around. But we didn't get any complaints or anything because that's residential. We didn't get we didn't we had one complaint from someone on Montana Avenue and that was resolved quickly by Kenan Johnson and we never heard of another one.

Okay. So if we've done this before and there were no complaints then we're good. Yes. And the fire and streets were not I mean police and streets were notified for comments. I asked them for comments. Very good. Council Kiki. Um, just a couple things. This is a um I actually went on this one and I was uh really pleased with how respectful they were of the neighbors regarding music, regarding trash, regarding food, all of that. And so that was just an interesting an interesting um and fun experience. We had another one of these that we approved a number of years back. Is it still operating two?

No. Okay. So, there's just one in town. Just one. Okay. Thanks. Question for you. So, you you went on this thing. Did you pedal and all that? And oh, I paddled like crazy, but mostly because we were talking and eating more than drinking because all of these places will provide food. So, we were just taking food and eating and and I so I figured we had to pedal a lot more to even out by the end of the trip. That's great. Any other questions on this topic for Kelly? Very good. Thank you, Kelly. We'll be looking for council action.

Well, I would um make a motion to approve resolution number 26-032 authorizing a letter of agreement with Keenan Johnson and Paddlepub CDA LLC for commercial use of the city streets for recreational transit. Second. So, we have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? No. None from out there either. Uh, we'll do a roll call. Sheckler, yes. Miller, I. Gabriel, yes. English, yes. Wood, yes. Evans, yes.

And the motion carries. Now we move on to item I two, which is the mayor's request of approval of an appointment of Dave Hagar to the position of police chief. And before we get rolling on this, something I would like to read. Um there has been talk and I don't know if there's any validity to this but there has been discussion either on social media or around that the reason this has become contentious is because Dave Hagar lied and I just want to caution council before we proceed. No allegation that Hagar lied should be repeated or relied upon as a fact unless and until it has been properly investigated and substantiated. If the allegation is to be considered at all, it should be referred through an appropriate internal process. Hagar should be given notice of this concern and an opportunity to respond. He is entitled to due process. If the city council decides not to appoint Dave Haggar, it should be articulate, lawful, evidence-based, non-defamy reasons for this decision without resorting to rumor. Council discussion.

Mr. Mayor. Yes, Christie. I'd like you make to make a motion to approve the appointment of Dave Hager to the position of police chief. Second. So, we have a motion and a second for the approval of the appointment of Dave Hagar's position of police chief. Discussion. Yes. And Dan, I would like to refer to councel on just the process of your appointment and the legality of your you you mentioned it earlier, but I'd like to hear from Randy. This is a deviation from the process that was established when we started these interviews for police chief. So, I'd like our legal opinion on um how to move forward with your appointment.

I can answer that. Uh Idaho statute provides the mayor to appoint officers for the city. The statute specifically mentions the city treasurer and the city clerk. Um these were actually once elected positions for cities in Idaho. The statute also goes on to say that the mayor has the authority to appoint officers as necessary for the efficient operation of the city. Um, this u is used in cities that do not have city administrators to make those appointments as no other official has the authority to make those appointments outside of a mayor, especially in a small city that doesn't have a city administrator. In our city, uh we do not have any city code that um says that that authority has been removed. We have city code that establishes the position of a city administrator. The city administrator's job description which is passed by resolution of council takes that power and gives it to the city administrator. And under other circumstances, if you guys didn't vote that away, you would be approving the appointment of department heads. But when you approved the job description for the city administrator, you gave up that authority. So, that's the way I read the code. Um, the code also says, I read the Idaho Association Association of Idaho Cities manual on appointments, and that's pretty much what it said. Um, and it also mentioned that uh uh I cannot break a tie. So, that's why I'm saying that I can't break a tie. Now, I did email Randy about this and I asked him and he provided examples

of how I cannot do it, but no examples of how I can do it as my memory uh recalls. But Randy, I'll let you go ahead and and uh address the question. Let's see. Should we first we made a motion and a second. Should we vote on that and then have this? Well, actually, quite honestly, the way I view it is we shouldn't have put it on the agenda if it was illegal. I will have uh Randy make his comments. Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, it's not just in the uh job description of city administrator. Rule 26 of the city's personnel rules which were adopted by council many years ago provides that department heads are appointed by the city administrator. Council does not vote on the appointment of department heads. Under the personnel rules, it is very clear that the police chief is a department head. Uh, you did ask me last week about Idaho Code section 50-204 and whether that supported your appointment of a police chief uh by you or any other mayor. I did review the statutes. I provided you with a detailed analysis and my conclusion was that section 50-204 does not give the mayor the power to appoint the police chief or a department head. It does not give council the right to confirm a mayoral appointment of a department head. I later provided you the next day I provided you with an a case from the Idaho Supreme Court, Bunt versus Garden City, which is dispositive of the issue and has not been overruled or changed. It discusses that exact point. In bunt, the Supreme Court said, and I quote, "The historical progression of the relevant statutory sections shows that the legislaturator's intention to limit the officers required by statute to be appointed by the mayor with the consent of city council. Police officers were once included in the category, but were not expressly enumerated in the present version of Idaho Code section 50-204." And the apparent legislative intent was

to delete police officers, including the police chief, from the requirement of mayoral appointment with city council approval applicable to other officers. Garden City had made the office of police chief an appointed officer. Uh, and so therefore, the Supreme Court held the 50-204 applied to Garden City. You also brought up Meridian as a place where the mayor appoints department heads and I went to the Meridian uh city code and the city code of Meridian uh provides that the mayor appoints the department heads in Meridian. Uh again, Cordelane has designated the police chief as a department head, not an appointed officer, and has given the power to appoint department head solely to the city administrator. The only appointed officers in Cordelane are the city clerk, the city treasurer, the city attorney, and the city administrator. I also reached out to the Idaho Municipal Attorneys Association uh and the attorneys for every city that responded uh indicated that and agreed that the mayor could not appoint a department head unless the city uh had designated them as an appointed official pursuant to 50-204. The mayor cannot assume that power under 50-204. Therefore, it is the uh opinion of the legal department of the city of Celane uh that a police chief uh cannot be appointed by the mayor. Um and and such an appointment would be a violation of the city's own adopted policy and also that the method of appointing a department head is not

supported by state law, particularly Idaho code section 50-204. And so here you have the crux of the matter. Here is what goes on in the city of Celane. You have an unelected city attorney who butts heads with a mayor. And that's this whole story with the police department and city attorneys. See, he didn't give me advice. He vetoed me. And he doesn't have that authority in statute. I have the authority by statute to make an appointment. He's using a resolution, a personnel rule to tell me that I lack authority. He's not backing me up. And in fact, I have hired private counsel because I've lost his faith. I have no faith in the city attorney not to advise me as the mayor. I believe he tilts the table. This is 10 years of documentation of city attorneys attacking our police chief. That's what happens in this city and that's what this vote is really all about. It is about a power play in city hall by unelected officials who want to overturn your choice. I am the mayor and I have authority to make this appointment and it is my opinion that the city attorney and others have poisoned this council and biased them against me and against the police chief. And I know this is pretty heavy duty, but I am tired of this I'm tired of having a city attorney who doesn't

tell me what the law is, who tells me his opinion that's biased, that he tilts the table, which is Mayor, I told you what the law says. I was giving you my opinion. Do not interrupt me. Do not interrupt me. Do not accuse me of doing something unethical. Why are you pissing on me? Why do you do this? I am not pissing on you. I am giving you what the Idaho Supreme Court says.

You are not telling. When I asked you last Thursday when this when this agenda was approved, I said, "Do you have an issue with this item and you said you did not? That's in the minutes. Why didn't you bring it up then?" I had given you my opinion. And I did not want to embarrass you in front of other people. So, you're going to embarrass me in a council meeting? You may. You decided to continue with the motion despite legal counsel.

This is the You guys see the that's going on right now. You see the push back from the city attorney. You wonder who's been poisoned up here, who's been told not to talk to the police association, not to talk to the the interim chief, who's been told to ignore things. This is what's going on in this city and I'm trying to fix it, but I'm getting push back. I have a legal right to make this appointment and if you don't like it, you can sue me. Excuse me, Mr. Mayor. What?

I respectfully ask that we return to some decorum and respect for one another. We're here to do business tonight. We have an audience full of community members and teammates and I respectfully ask that we try to control ourselves and conduct business that's best for our citizens. Good luck. I am going to pull the council right now. I would like to know individual council members starting with Kenny Gabriel. Have you been contacted by Chief Hagar or the police association? And did you return their contact?

I have not been contacted by Dave. I have been contacted by the police association. I have not spoke back to them. Mr. Mayor, I'm not sure I owe you an explanation. I owe them an explanation, which means a ton to me. And what you're trying to do is demean my love for this police department in this city. And I find that incredibly disrespectful. I have not spoke to them, Mr. Mayor, because the last thing I want to do is make this almost impossible situation worse. That's why you weren't told by anyone not to speak to them.

I was not. I was told that there was given all options and what would this look like if I did not. And I made a decision out of respect to them and respect to the process and the last thing I want to do is drag Dave Hagar through the mud. The last thing I want to do, Miss Miller, have you been contacted by Dave Hagar or the police association? Yes. And

is this part of the process of the mayor? Um, I I this is a very unusual situation. I have no problem with it, but it's very unusual that this is like a cross-examination or or or some sort of trial here. And I I felt like you earlier said, we're not going to be defaming people. We're not going to be listening to all of this other background noise. I I have not. Okay. Miss Evans, have you been contacted by the Police Department association or

Yes, I have been contacted by both. I met with Don Craft. I know he's out there somewhere. Approximately two weeks ago. We sat down and had coffee for about an hour. Um, and I was contacted by Dave Hagar last evening. I was in a meeting at the Chamber of Commerce and I texted him back that I get back to him and unfortunately I went right into a another dinner commitment and then worked all day. So, but I did respond to him via text. Thank you. Christy Wood, have you been in touch with the police association or the chief?

Yes, I have. Um, they've reached out to me to speak about the leadership uh role they would like to see filled. I've also throughout my history as an elected official and certainly here on council. Anytime an association member or the body or a fire union member or the body or lake city association contacts me as an elected official, I return their call and I meet with them. And Mr. Sheckler, have you been contacted by the police association or Mr. Hagar?

Uh, Mr. Mayor, yes, I had the pleasure of meeting with the police association representatives, uh, Don Craft and Johan. um who uh we probably met for an hour or two over coffee or lunch and discussed this very deeply. Um it was a very informative discussion and I appreciate their service very much. I also uh have not been contacted by Captain Hagar, but I have also not been contacted by Mr. Jagger either. I have not been contacted by any of the applicants. Um and and I have not reached out to them either about this. All right. Thank you. And Dan, same question.

Um yeah, well of course we got yeah that memo from police association and I probably you know I might have talked individually and uh I have talked with Captain Hegar. In fact I um stopped by there today to see him and uh just offer my encouragement. I mean it's no secret that you know support him and um so yep thank you that's my question

Mr. She Mr. Mayor, you indicated some disagreement with uh legal counsel's opinion. Um I'm quite aware that opinions uh are multitudinous and many people have different opinions even in the legal profession. Um it do you accept or reject that opinion and if you reject it would you like to have an independent legal opinion? Uh I got that and the independent legal opinion I obtained told me that I have full authority to make appointments that uh city personnel rules and city resolutions do not supersede statutes. Um now there is an interesting point in that city code can but we have nothing in city code that supersedes it. on that question. Is that an independent uh opinion? Sometimes uh as an attorney, I think they make a decision of who's their client. Um is it a independent one where they are um independently analyzing the law objectively or are they providing that an opinion as an advocate for a client?

That's a good question and I like the way you put that. Uh my question was put out flatly. In other words, you know, does this statute give a mayor an authority to make an appointment or does it not? And that is backed up by the Association of Idaho City's description in their mayor manual of what the mayor's authorities are. Are you willing to share that opinion with the public or with uh council? currently. I asked uh my counsel today and I was told that I was that it's still attorney client privilege. And then so are you the client? Yes.

Okay. Um, are you seeking a independent opinion from legal counsel to provide an objective opinion to the city of Celane where the city of Celane is the client on this issue that's outside of Randy Adams? I I would entertain that. Sure. Okay. Do you have further questions? No.

Thank you. And I do admit that I get very passionate about things. I get really wound up and I can get real excited, especially when I think I'm being abused. So, I do have something in common with our current interim chief and our former chief when it comes to butdding heads in city hall. And you saw examples of that, Mr. Mayor.

Yes, Christie. May I just bring up past presidents? If we're going to talk about um city personnel rules, resolution, state law, past presidents, in 2014 when Lee White was hired, the situation was very similar. We the mayor, Steve Woodmeer, was dealing with an interim city administrator, Troy Thomasson, and the mayor made the appointment of Lee White. I got to correct you on that because the mayor did not make the appointment. He made the offer. Oh, I see.

There was a that was another thing that Randy told me again arguing against my authority to make the appointment was that that uh vote was to make an offer to Lee White. So, um yeah, we're in uncharted waters here. Dan English. Um well, we've got a big vote coming up here and uh you know, it's not going to just impact tonight or us, but down the road. And I guess I'd ask each of you to be thinking of, you know, when your children or grandchildren asked, you know, in that moment of truth, how did you vote? And I'm I'm very comfortable with um with my vote and we'll I'll sleep good with that tonight.

Yes, please. Kenny, Mr. Mayor, help me with this for a second. If you believe through other counsel, I'm going to back up a second. By no means I can speak for myself, do I want to work against you under zero circumstance. So, if you've heard something about me with that, put it away cuz it's the farthest thing from the truth. But if you have the ability to make an appointment, why are we voting on it? Oh, because that's what the statute says. The statute says the mayor may make the appointment with the approval of council. That's why I can't vote on it. different than if the city administrator makes the appointment. It's strictly the appointment then

because the council then has uh surrendered its responsibility to a city administrator because you've got to look at it from a practical standpoint. How do people get appointed to positions in the city and in a small city where there's no administrator you know the clerk can they appoint? Can someone appoint themselves? Does HR hire and then that's the appointment? uh in a small city, the mayor makes the appointment according to this statute. Understand?

And like I said from the Association of Idaho Cities manual, we can write city code if you want to. That would remove that. But that would be city code. What we're talking about now is policy. We're talking about a job description and personnel rules which are adopted as a resolution and policy. Understand? And therefore, I feel I'm okay to make this appointment. My suspicion now is that the vote is going to be no based on the allegation that I don't have this authority. And that's really a question that I think the public needs to know. Does your mayor have the authority? Does a city attorney have veto power over an elected mayor? Mr. Mayor, yes.

I I personally don't feel like what our city attorney said was vetoing. I think you asked a question. And I think he answered the question and he drew specific facts as to what his reasons for his answer was. But one thing that you just said, I'd like to find out what your thoughts are are that if there isn't a need for the city administrator to have a vote of council to approve his appointment, why was it not just appointed originally?

Because the contract we signed with Mr. Jacobson said he needs a vote. There was a concern and you know I'm not going to judge the concern but I accepted it which is that they did not want an interim city administrator coming in here and just randomly firing people or hiring them. They wanted a process. So this wasn't specific to the administrator position. It was specific to Ron Jacobson.

Right. Ron Jacobson I agreed to this process. Ron and I were on the same page. We are on the same page regarding what happened and I support his decision. I don't think he was um I don't think he was out of line. He did what he said he would do. He's a man of integrity. I don't question that at all, but that was part of the process. And then it was a tie. And so the items were asked to be put back on. Would have preferred them not to be, but they were put back on. And here we are.

And I will tell you that I did have a conversation and it was the same as when I explained my original vote um with the with uh Don, the head of the local And I did my convers my contact from uh Dave Hagar was that he wanted to discuss uh rumors or lies or something about him. And I got that call in a meeting. I had a long agenda today and I didn't feel like I wanted to get into a gossip mill. I haven't paid attention to that. I don't really know about it. I don't know a lot of this background noise until emails later on today that were going back and forth. So, I didn't feel like it would be beneficial or productive for me to get into a a some sort of a gossip mail fray over something I didn't have any information on.

And I appreciate that. And that was kind of what I read earlier is I I want you to make your decision based on facts. And um those are the facts that are laid out. Um, you know, don't don't use innuendo rumors. Don't have to use my rants about it. Like I said, I can get really emotional and wound up in things that I I'm very passionate about. Um, you all received a letter from Peter Urbland. Uh, this is uh Peter Urbland is with Lake City Law and he is uh one of our attorneys that's assigned with our um our insurance company. Um and he would know he's actually handling the one case that is seems to be the hot potato here. I know Dave Haggar only. These are his words. I know Dave Haggar only professionally. He has not asked me to contact you and he is not aware that I'm doing so. As you may know, my firm has represented the police department in many cases and investigations over the years through assignment by ICRIP. In doing so, I became acquainted with Dave Hagar in his capacity as assistant chief. His attention to detail and thoroughess resulted in many positive outcomes on claims both external and internal. Many police departments in North Idaho do not have the resources or the high level of riskmanagement investigations that one sees coming out of Celane. It's been very clear to me that Lee White and Dave Hagar have used our resources well and obviously reflects low crime statistics and hopefully lower insurance rates. Um so the reason I'm going off the rails tonight is that I have a lot of passion for Mr. Hagar. And you're right. If I had the unilateral authority, I would appoint him. But I want to make sure that there is consensus up here with that. You guys get to make the decision. Now, you can argue as the city attorney has that I do not have this authority. I pray that you not use that as an excuse to dump this agenda item. Like I said, this agenda was approved. There was an item on there that was

against the law. one would assume that the attorney would have it pulled. Mr. Christie, thank you. I I've yet to really um discuss why why I've made the motion to appoint Dave Hager as chief of police. Now, there's been a lot of testimony here tonight about Dave's leadership, how professional he is, uh what the officers think of him, what other agencies think of him, what the community thinks of them, and what leadership thinks of him, and it's all been very positive with the exception of our former city attorney, Mr. Gridley. Now, you didn't need to call him out.

Well, he testified. um the the emails that you referred to and the back and forth, that's all public information and anybody's welcome to it, but I do appreciate that you read the letter from Mr. Urban because Mr. Urban is our legal counsel in the case that's pending. If anybody would know about the character and integrity of Dave Hager, it would be the attorney representing us in this case. So, I I know that there's a lot of um you know, which side are you going to be on, who are you going to be friends with, what are you going to do here, what are you going to do there? And I don't want that either. I want a professional like Dave Hager to be treated fairly. That's been my beef through this entire process, fairness. And uh it's turned into more of a campaign than a employment process. And it's been really discouraging, really hurtful. And um I really hope our council will just do the right thing.

And and I do too. And I want you to know that even though I can be a raving lunatic and um it's lack of sleep and not enough alcohol. And but I will support the decision of council. I have set up here as a council member for years

and that's all I really wanted. I just wanted the support and so um whatever you guys decide is what I'm going to do what uh Ron is going to do and that's the way the system works. I can whine about it. I can cry about it. I can call people names and stomp my feet. But you good people are the ones who make the decision and it is my hope that you make the best decision for the city. Any other comments or questions? Anything else? Anyone wants to accuse anyone of anything? Uh, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Sheper.

So, I I took some time to prepare my thoughts and and wrote out my my my statement and um I'd like to read that if I may. Um, and I I may alter this uh after after I read my statement. Um, based on the discussion we've just had, I want to begin by recognizing the men and women of our police department. They serve this community with courage every day and they have earned the respect of this council and the public. I also want to acknowledge the strong support within the department for Captain Hagar. He has earned that support over years of service. We have seen his success in crime reduction and his commitment to officer safety. Nothing in this decision should be taken as a criticism of his character, his truthfulness, his leadership, or his service to this community in any way. I took this decision seriously. At the last council meeting, I voted against accepting the recommendation from the city administrator. I also voted against rejecting that recommendation. I needed more time. So, I heard from prosecutors. I heard from representatives of the police officers association and I heard from other officers to ensure that my decision was informed and thoughtful. Our officers are asked to do difficult and often unpopular things. Whether it is a writing a speeding ticket or making arrest or sheltering a child, they do those things not because they are easy, but because they are necessary. The city is safer because they're willing to do their duty. Uh the responsibility before me and this council is not to choose the most popular option within the department. Our duty is to make the best decision that serves the city of Celane. And historically, this city has operated under a structure where the city

administrator hires department heads. Ordinarily, council isn't even involved in approving that. This structure exists for a reason. It separates policymaking from operational control and ensures that the city is managed by a coordinated administrative team. Department heads must work closely with legal, human resources and other departments and the city administrator is responsible for coordinating those efforts. Other jurisdictions have seen the consequences where actions that are taken are inadequately coordinated with the legal team or where a governing board interferes with operations. Such missteps create serious risks to the financial health of those jurisdictions. For those reasons, I place significant weight on the recommendation of the city administrator and the interview and and the interview panel he convened. A police chief does not operate in isolation. He is part of a broader leadership team that must function effectively together. There may be a broader policy debate about whether that structure should change, whether the city law and policy should be changed so that the mayor makes the nomination and coordinates the efforts of department heads. Uh that's not the decision before us today and I'm not inclined to disregard the historical precedent for how our city has operated in the context of this one isolated appointment. But I believe this is an appropriate moment for the city to consider an external perspective. Strong organizations are built from within, but they're also strengthened at times by evaluating existing practices

with fresh eyes. The successful administration of Chief White and Captain Hagar under his leadership is a testament to the benefits of a welltimed new perspective before us. We have the recommendation of the city administrator. Now, Mr. Jacobson is of course the interim city administration administrator. We may hire a new one in the next month or two. I see the need organizationally for there to be strong cohesion between the police department and the city administration. That includes all of the department heads that the city administrator supervises. That's why I supported at this point in time accepting the recommendation of Joerger by the interim city administrator. What causes me some pause is the representations that you have made, Mr. Mayor, about an independent legal opinion from your attorney. um and the concerns you've raised publicly um about whether or not we can rely on the city attorney. I think Mr. Adams opinion was wellounded. It was grounded in case law. It was grounded in statutes and it was grounded in city policy. But I am not a municipal lawyer. Um, I know that these things are complex and I think this decision is weighty

and I think that uh I'm open to the possibility of if if you want it to obtain an independent legal opinion. Um, I don't think that's necessarily unreasonable given the weight and significance of this decision.

Thank you, Dan. Uh, one comment. Uh, so one of the case law, the case law that Randy mentioned specifically, uh, is from Garden City and that had to do with a termination and specifically it had to do with city code on the termination. The appointment was made statutoily, but the termination was made against city code. I would also like to point out to all of my council, there are seven cities in Idaho that are larger than us. And of those seven, six have a full-time mayor and no city administrator. In those cities, the mayor makes the appointment with the approval of council. Two weeks ago, I met with the mayor for Meridian and he told me that's how it works. Any other questions? We will do a roll call. Joanne

Miller, can you repeat the motion, please? Motion by Wood seconded by English to approve of the appointment of Dave Hagar to the position of police chief. No. Gabriel, no. English, yes. Wood, yes. Evans, no. Sheckler, no. Motion fails. Moving on to item number I3. The city administrator requests the approval of his appointment of Greg Joerger to the position of police chief. Discussion or comments.

Mr. Mayor. Yes, Christie.

I would like to state that this entire thing has not been about Mr. Joerger, but I'm noticing that council isn't speaking about Mr. Joerger. Um, I'm I'm not going to support his nomination because I know what the community wants. I know what the police association wants. And it's going to be very difficult for him to accept a role where he doesn't have the support of the leadership. So, I'm not going to support his nomination. And I Oh, I'm sorry. Does someone else have something to say? Kiki,

I think Christy had some valid concerns in her comments. Um, I have been processing this and uh Mr. Jerger didn't have the opportunities to um rally his supporters in the room or to submit letters of support to us or to uh or to have a a what seems to be a second round of of public uh comment on his credentials. I'm simply I'm coming from the position I did initially because I was on the panel of the interviews and I have the utmost of respect for Mr. Hagar and I believed that myself as a panelist as well as the majority of the other groups that interviewed had Mr. Hagar on top. It's really as simple as that. by resume, by interview process, by conversation. That's what I thought and still think my decision to bring in um these fresh ideas, this new experience and and help continue to move our police department in the positive direction it is. I don't believe that the members of the department lack the integrity to not follow a strong leader. I also believe that um Captain Hagar is going to remain with our team and that the things that Lee White brought to this department aren't going to vanish. And I feel like this was the best thing for the city of Celane. And I did not get into all of the appointments and the the dispute between the mayor and the city attorney and the lies and the gossip. I didn't go

down that road at all. That is as simple and straightforward as my decision-m was anything else. Okay. The I have been trying to work before I exploded like an angry zit tonight. I have been trying to work to smooth relationships in city hall between the police department and the legal department. And my concern is that you are about to bring someone in who is either going to face that same pattern of allegations, accusations, innuendos, rumors, and retaliation that has been the habit in this organization for the past 12 years. Or you're going to bring someone in who's going to capitulate and our city will suffer. That's your decision. Roll call. Wait, was there a motion?

Let's do a motion. Was that Did you make a motion? I'm sorry. I'm ahead of myself. We need to make a motion. Somebody, Mr. Mayor, I I move to have the city administrator the mo we have to be very careful with this. I had to the the motion is to uh the approval of the appointment of Greg Joerger to the position of police chief.

Yeah, I understand. I move for the approval of the appointment of Greg Joerger at to the position of police chief. Second. Any discussion on the motion? Right, let's do a roll call. Gabriel, yes. English, no. Wood, no. Evans, yes. Sheckler, yes. Miller, yes. Thank you. Ron, will you please contact Mr. Joerger and tell him congratulate him and invite him to our city. We will going to take a two-minute recess to clear the room. Sitting recess. Unless he declines the position, that's going to be a whole

There must be more

Christa Hazel, Ed the Priest. You tell when the thing comes up. That's when we're Mike, are we on?

Yes. Is that a yes? Okay. Calling the meeting back to order. We have our final item on the agenda tonight, which is a public hearing for a legislative hearing V 2601, our first vacation of the year, which is a portion of 8th Street Rightway, adjoining the Westerly boundary of Loth 7, Block 2, and Keller's edition staff report by Dennis Grant, street and engineering project manager. Dennis, good evening.

Thank you, Mayor and Council, and good evening. the the applicants Michael and Allison Sterling are requesting that vacation at a portion of 8th Street Rideway up on the it's up on the screen there that adjoins the Westly Brown uh boundary of the property. The requested rideway was originally dedicated to the city of Cordelane in the Keller's edition plat in 1905. The vacation of the requested rideaway would not have any financial impact on the city and would add approximately 1,250 square ft uh to the county tax role. The purpose of this request is to vacate a 10-ft wide strip of 8th Street rightway uh that adjoins a west uh boundary. Sorry, I already said that. 8th Street is developed into an ultimate width and and in this location and the additional rightway can be incorporated into the development of the adjoining property. This portion of 8th Street has an 80ft rideway. The typical rightaway is 60 foot in the city limits. All utilities exist and are in placed and there is no foreseeable use for this additional rightaway. The development review team was informed about this vacation. Uh I did send out 47 certified mailers uh to the property owners within 300 ft of the vacation request. I had one response and uh it was uh four is for the vacation. Um, so recommendation is uh council should approve the vacation action per Idaho code section 50-1306 and vacate the property to the applicant Michael and Allison Sterling.

Very good. Are there any questions for Dennis? This is a legislative hearing, so there will we will be hearing from the public. But if anyone has any questions on this uh vacation, usually Dennis, these come forward because someone is concerned about setbacks and they want to build something and it's in this particular case. Yes, because uh it is an 80 foot wide ride right away. And we've had two in the in the past uh 10 years, we've had two just to the north on 8th Street that's been approved. And I know at least in one case they wanted to expand their garage or something. So yes, that is correct.

Very good. Seeing no questions, I will open the hearing. We have one person signed up. Katherine Canel, she is in opposition and she would like to testify. And as this is a legislative hearing, you do not need to be sworn in.

Okay. Um, good evening. Um, my name is Katherine Kinsel and I live on the adjacent street on 7th and I saw this um topic brought up at the last city council meeting and my concerns um have to do with um vacating the property to one property owner on 8th Street. Um, 8th Street has a dead end at Lakeside and the Dead End up north at Brian Elementary School. And it, um, on both sides of the street, wide street, but both sides of the street there's 15 to 20 feet beauty strips and they're treelined. Um, this particular property is at kind of a curve and so it doesn't have it's its property is grass all the way to the curb. So there's no existing sidewalk at this point and it's currently used has um some vegetable garden boxes kind of in that space. My concern is that if you vacate to one property owner, then um from what I counted, there's something like um there's something like 58 houses and 42 driveways on that strip of 8th Street. And if you give property, public property to one property owner so they can improve their property with buildings, um, garages and ADUs, as is mentioned in the staff report, then who wouldn't want to have another 1,250 ft added to their property without having to pay, you know, for the property? And yes, they'll pay taxes on it, but they're not buying that land from the city at

current market value. And so it's kind of a sweet deal, but if one person does it, you open the gate for every other homeowner on that street to be able to do it. And um so that that's my thought on it is it just seems like um and not to mention with those blocks north and south on that roadway, the traffic for all the additional housing um garages, um expansion of, you know, how big the households become. All that traffic's got to also go somewhere. and it either goes to ninth or to seventh because eighth doesn't have any throughway.

And I don't know why the hardcape still there down at 8 and Lakeside. I've been asking that. But um as you increase the density to downtown and the housing on Lakeside got increased and Sherman and all these different areas and you discuss um the comp plan where you're talking about building heights for the new in the downtown area. Um, at some point you have to bust open and increase traffic flow. But this will actually increase the use on that street which will then translate into the use in our neighborhoods and stuff more than it already is. And it's already kind of a lot of uh use. So that's all I have to say.

Thank you. We have any uh questions for Miss Consel? Yes, Kiki. I just um you know, you may or may not know this, but I'm looking at it. Are there any sidewalks along this or Dennis, you might know this one, too. I

um not on that particular block. That block I think there's a block and then there's a couple more houses and then the dead end at Brian Elementary. And at at that dead end, those houses, I think that's probably where the garage expansions are because that street is basically non-usable to the public. It's a drop off kind of place. Um but um south of Hastings um I think is where there's the sidewalk and the beauty strip. I mean it's pretty wide spaces on both sides of the street. So by the time you add the 15 ft of green space and a sidewalk and then the property owner's yards, there's a lot of cushion there. And you know, for whatever reason, they donated it 120 years ago. I doubt it was just to hand it over to whoever got lucky enough to own a property adjacent to it.

That's Any other questions for Miss Canel? Thank you. And can I please take out my sidewalks and put trees? We'll talk.

Thank you. Okay, I'm going to close the hearing and Dennis, if you could come back up, I'd like to ask a couple of questions. So, this um so Canel brought up the point that uh this guy's basically adding to his property and not paying the city for it. What how does that work? So, uh, Randy could attest to this, but per state code, um, if property is given to the public during the plat stage, which approved plat was in 1905. In this case, by state code, we cannot sell it. We have to give it back to the

the property owner, the current property owner. It's not the same property owner that of course in 1905 but that's that's what the state code says. So that's what we have to abide. Now, if we purchased a piece of property, then we could sell it. But since it was given to the public or the city, uh we have to perate state code give it back. and and he didn't pay there's there were fees involved with this too to go

Yes, there's an application fee uh $1,000 application fee and then he had to hire his consultant to uh to do the process that he needs to do the the exhibits and and uh talk to the title company and get me the mailers because I had to send out the 47 uh certified mailings 47 of them that uh they're what $11.37 a piece. It would be nice to, you know, send out an use a 80 cent stamp, but so that yeah, there is some cost involved with that. And um I tried to this is a kind of a vicinity map that was provided. H it's not very easy easily seen for the sidewalk, but there uh she was correct. Kathy was correct. There are uh areas that do have sidewalk and areas that don't. This one does not, but um per our sidewalk code, when they come in to do an addition or whatever, that may be changed. Yeah.

And Mr. Sheer, you have a question. Does this change the setback? Uh can they build closer to the rightway now because they have that extra 10 ft? That is correct. Y um this rightway goes the whole length of 8th Street. That's why it's so wide, right? Yeah. So back in 1905, this was probably on the outskirts of town and maybe that was going to be a a thoroughare at one time. I I'm not sure why that's 80 when everything else is 60, but um yeah, that's a great observation. Yep. the whole length of that there's a pretty wide planting strip basically at least a substantial length of that on both sides of the road

for for uh I don't know how many blocks but wherever that sub Keller subdivision ends it's that stretch maybe eight blocks or 10 blocks I'm not sure exactly how many but but it doesn't go clear downtown is is the point so I think this could though potentially disrupt that the continuity of that planting strip for all of the neighbors that have that that that street where they kind of enjoy this long boulevard. The the sidewalk will still be in the existing uh 60oot rideway. There's just excess uh rightway and in those nine or 10 blocks of the killer edition. Okay.

Um and the two properties to the north have already came in front of the council and got approval for a vacation there. And Okay. And uh and and some do have sidewalk and some don't. But I I'm not sure exactly. You kind of see it on there, but it's it's difficult. If I zoomed in, maybe we could see that a little clearer. If you'd like to see that. Okay. But it shouldn't affect that. No. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, Kenny. Dennis, I don't recall. We don't do a ton of these, right?

No. Last year we did one about a year ago, but in previous years we have had four, five, six. It was crazy there for a while. And and this year, for whatever reason, there there are uh two well there's four that have talked to me about it. So there there may be around four or five this year in different locations around the city. Kiki, go ahead. Unless you're done done, Kiki, did you get I'm done. Thank you, sir. Okay, Kiki.

Um thank you. What's running through my mind is that there was a um discussion about areas that the city engineer had come up with and said if this is within a school zone then if they pull a permit then they have to put a sidewalk in. But there were other areas that they didn't have to put a sidewalk in. So how does this vacation affect whether a sidewalk has to be put in there or not? Well, there is plenty of room for a sidewalk and for and in this case in this property, I believe there is not a sidewalk. So, if there's an improvement done per our uh policies and and standard drawings, they may or may not have to put in a sidewalk in this case, but there is still plenty of room to put in a sidewalk so it doesn't take it away.

That's right. Yeah. Any other questions? Oh, yes, Christie. Uh, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Dennis, how does this benefit the city? um really uh tax dollars. It's not going to be a bunch of money, but tax dollars.

And do you foresee as Miss Kensel um stated that now everyone on that street is going to come forward and want a chunk of land from us? Uh we've already had a few that have come forward, but uh a lot of people don't want to pay extra taxes, so they won't do it or or they don't want to uh maintain it uh because it's in the city right away. Although per code, we don't maintain sidewalks in front of properties, but um no, I don't. Thank you. Any other qu? Yes, Dan English. Well, I would just make a motion to dispense with the rule and read council bill number 26-107 once by title only.

Second. Motion in a second. Any discussion on the motion? Roll call, please. Gabriel, yes. English, yes. Wood, no. Evans, yes. Sheckler, no. Miller, yes.

Motion carries. Clerk will read the title. Council bill number 2610007 an ordinance of the city of Kurdane vacating a portion of public right ofway located in the Keller's addition to Cordelane plat recorded in book B of plats at page 114 records of Kney County Idaho generally described as a 10-ft wide strip of land being portion of 8th Street right ofway adjoining the west boundary of lot 7 block 2 situated in a portion of the northeast quarter of section 13 township 50 north range for West Boise, Meridian, City of Cordane, Kney County, Idaho, repealing our ordinances and bars of ordinances in conflict here with providing a several beauty clause and providing for the publication of a summary of this ordinance in an effective date here.

And I would just like to remind council that the motion is to dispense with the rule and read the the council bill once by title. If this motion fails, the clerk is required to read the entire ordinance. Thank you for the reminder. And we will be moving on to the next item, a motion to adopt the bill. Mr. Mayor, I'll make a motion to adopt council bill 2610007. Second. Motion and a second. Any discussion on this motion?

I I just wanted to say that um and maybe there's there's something I would be missing in it, but if a sidewalk still would have room to be put in, um I don't see what other use the city could have for this piece of property. It's not like we can go, you know, put a park there or, I don't know, park vehicles or something. So, it it doesn't make sense to me to not, you know, to hang on to it when we could get a little bit of tax value for it and it isn't going to impede any of the city use by not being able to put a sidewalk through there. So, it it doesn't it just didn't seem to me that it's something that um if it benefits the land owner, well, you know, so be it. Very good. Any other com? Yes, Danny.

Just that um it just so happens that I drive this route very often on my way down to my office and uh I instead of going down 7th. I will do this sometimes and I consider that the scenic route. So yeah,

Mr. Mayor, one of the reasons why I think it's the scenic route is those sidewalks are separated a little bit further away from the street and that planting strips wider and you have some uh houses that are set a little bit further back and you know my concern is just for the continuity of the neighborhood and the potential for this to be disrupted. I know I appreciate the response from uh staff. Yet I I'm just concerned that if we were to do this in every case that you'd start to see disruptions to that continuity. Very good. Anything else? All right. So, we have a motion and a second, right? That was our discussion. We did have a motion and a second, right? Okay. Good. All right. It's a night. Roll call, please.

Gabriel. Yes. English. Um, no wood. No. Evans, yes. Sheckler, no. Miller, I. Mayor votes yes. Motion is carried. Now, we need a motion for a recess to our um budget workshop. Go ahead. Mr. Premier, I'll make a motion to recess to April 27th, 2026 at noon in the library community room located at 702 East Front Avenue for a budget workshop. Motion and a second. Thank you. All those in favor? I. We are recess. See you all Monday.