Charter Review Board - Regular Meeting

Excellent. Thank you. So we'll call to order the 02/19/2025 charter report board meeting. Mhmm. The board, please call the vote.

Chair Vavo? Present. Vice chair Forrianza. Present. Board member Albo. Here. Board member Menzies. Present. Board member Riziv. Here. City attorney Zach Mahaffy. Here. City attorney Cheryl Heiber.

Here. Thank you. Alright. We'd like to remind everyone to please silence your mobile devices to help with sound quality. Make sure to speak clearly so that microphones can pick up your voice. This meeting is being conducted live with a quorum physically present. The material for today's meeting is available online at coconutcreek.net. Anyone wishing to appeal any decision made will need a record of the proceedings and for such purpose may need to ensure that a verbatim recording of the proceedings is made, including the testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is to be based. The audio of this meeting may be requested from the city clerk or may be heard online at coconutcreek.net.

Thank you very much. As we said last week, we're gonna pick up the charter and start reviewing section by section. I guess I did wanted to bring up the the list of I assume everybody received the list you compiled.

Everybody should have received it, and there should be copies on the desk

for you. So I guess I'm just bringing

it up if you haven't if you didn't

see it via email yet, we were provided hard copies of it. And I perused it. I didn't dig into it too much, but I did peruse it a little bit. And we might maybe reference it. At point, I don't know sure during tonight's meeting. We'll go through it and just review it and see if there's anything that we feel like is Is it is it large is this largely just what I I'm perusing it. It looked like it was largely points of individual commissioners brought up and then some supporting maybe documentation or references.

It is some issues that you've raised, some issues that the commissioners and the mayor raised, and and any issue that's on there, it is relevant sections of the charter or References to where there are discussions or items about that in the city code Which is why the board's section the sections of the city code on boards was attached 14

issues on their relevant charter sections.

Just to That's what I saw. Yeah. So as as at each of us individually tonight, over the week for next meeting, whatever, if there's anything we individually feel like we

mentioned

that is missing from here that is I think it would be important just to bring it up so we can make sure everything is memorialized in one document and this is the

And and that would be helpful because it doesn't you know, if just one person said something, it may not be on here. It's it's primarily focused on issues that you you seem to address as a board. Excellent.

Thank you. Yeah. And I I think I saw a few examples of things that we were talking about, but then a commissioner also brought up and it might just say commissioner Wasserman Yes. Or for example or something brought this up, which is which is fine. Alright. So we picking up I guess we can get right into the charter. I think we're at Section 4405? Course.

Yeah. That's where you said you wanted to go.

We have to we need a motion to approve the minutes in the last meeting.

The minutes were not available yet.

They're well.

So they are not

Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up. We just don't have them. So next week will probably approve.

Well, we definitely will have minutes from for next week. We may have two, but I I've only seen one. So right now, I

think there's only one.

Okay. No. I got to do that when I was running the meeting. The doctor in my parliamentarian yelled at me. Hopefully.

Publicly. Yes.

We would need to approve the minutes, but since we don't have them, we'll save that for next time.

Let's not to highlight it. So in section four zero five and and and I know that since we've we've popcorned around a little bit on the chart, we're gonna get to some sections that we've already discussed a little bit. But section four zero five is discussing removal of commission commissioners.

City manager by the commission.

And again, I want you to keep in mind that the city manager, just like the city attorney, both have employment contracts, which also have some language talking about removal. I will say that for the city manager's employment contract, it doesn't necessarily talk about the process as much as the basis for removal in the contract. Here, it talks about kind of the process as far as the amount of time and that sort

of thing.

Should so should there be a conflict between the two, how would

they resolve? So, arguably, the well, hopefully there's not a conflict between the two. The contract is between, you know, kind of the current city commission and current city manager. So to a large extent, I think that an argument that would be that would be controlling over any conflicts in the charter so long as it's not conflicting with state law. Because sometimes the contract, if it's more recent, which in this case it is because Sheila Rose was just appointed city manager last year, it may have more up to date references to state law than the charter does since it's such a lengthy process to amend the charter and has to be done by referendum.

So, yeah, in in previous con conversations when we were discussing this discussing this, I think we were we talked a little bit about the length of time this process could take if it was, I guess, fully followed and all the all the up to dates were up to time periods were up to forty five days. The suspension, initial suspension can be, then there's days for response. And and that our conversations in my notes, our conversations at one point went to I didn't really resolve the conversation, but we talked about if there's an egregious an egregious situation, should that process be able to be expedited and shortened.

And I can tell you in her employment contract, does provide for basically firing, you know, whether it be for cause, without cause, you know, misfeasance, malfeasance, that kind of a thing, very expeditiously, much more so than in here. I think the intent of this is to set up a situation where it provides for kind of due process for the city manager to be able to appeal a decision by having a hearing in front of the city commission much like the statue recently changed to provide for that kind of situation for police chiefs. It's certainly up to you all if you want to remove this. I would suggest that, you know, I'll need to take a deeper dive at, you know, in looking at the city manager's employment contract just to make sure it doesn't leave any holes Mhmm. By removing it.

And then if you wanted to add to it, you know, I also wanna make sure that it's not gonna conflict with the because I believe it was a I think they agreed on a two year contract. So roughly I mean, her contract would be up it's eligible to be renewed, but it would be up it was two years. Right? Or was it three?

I thought it was three.

Okay. It might be three. I'm sorry. Okay. It was a three year contract from last April. My memory is just not quite sure. So, it still would be in effect even once this goes by referendum, this being the charter changes to the voters in November 2026, presumably. So we would just want to make sure there's not any conflicts. So depending on which direction you go with it, mean, it through, let us know what you'd like to see, and then, you know, we can reconcile that with the contract to make sure that it's not going to create any inconsistencies. I certainly can provide you with a copy of the contract at the next meeting. I'm sorry. I didn't think to bring it for this one. Yeah.

Was only interested in I guess, I was I was just interested in exploring it in an egregious situation. Somebody's caught embezzling money from the city. I'd I'd love to see the city commission at least have the ability to make this a quick quick process and not have it stretched out to

actually four or five months. If you add up the days in a year, they can suspend the manager for up to forty five days. And if you add the not less than 15, no more than 30, and then you have the times for the rate of supply, heal, etcetera, it doesn't add up to the forty five days. So theoretically, the person would be on suspension for the entire period of time that the process would be going through going on.

So this could be concurrent?

Yeah. So you wouldn't have to worry about here somebody who is suspected of embezzling money who's still in their position. They will be suspended for the position while the process is going on. And I think it looks as though we finish up the process or could finish up the process before forty five days runs.

Right. And we might without specific like, hey. The numbers, it it it seemed like we're trying to or there hasn't been feedback around, like, a quicker whip here. Right? If even if the problem isn't with the if it's just a a disagreement. Right? Hey. Something with the the way you're running the city doesn't necessarily have to be egregious. It sounds like they're historically right. The commission tried to trigger this. It didn't even get to this point, but it's almost even, like, the step before this. So I think we talked about, like, cause and loosening that up a little bit. I don't know if that would speed things up, but perhaps less friction.

That's probably the contract calls or just calls, I would think.

Well, in here, in removal, the first time we talked about, like, the cause, and you had actually brought up Just calls. Yeah. It's a different definition. So just kinda my 2¢ on this one that it seems like the commission having a stronger, faster mechanism for overriding, I guess, decision, that I don't know how much the changing these days is gonna do. Right?

In reality, c moves it pretty quick. You know, you if they take that initial resolution, they deliver it within three days. The city manager has five days to basically file an appeal and then see if he that city manager doesn't file an appeal Mhmm. They can do something in five days.

So this mechanism is actually quick. It's almost a that it's been slow to get to the mechanism is kind of what I'm getting at.

Well, the problem is under Sunshine Law, you can't have two or more commissioners talking about something that is within their purview that would require their vote without a public meeting. So really, it's just a matter of

public meetings.

A public meeting. Yeah. Being scheduled to make that happen.

What's the notice requirement on public meetings?

So for public meetings, you know, generally, we provide notice seven days before the meeting. However, in extenuating circumstances, like if it's an emergency, you know, if there's a natural disaster or something, basically, the statute says, or as soon as practicable. So if there's a situation where maybe maybe, for example, the city manager has broken the law, you know, maybe drunk driving or something like that, driving under the influence, then in that instance, the commission could consider and have a special meeting called much sooner.

Okay. Understood. I wouldn't believe that point too much. Thank you.

So why is it that structurally the city clerk is? Right? Because they're part of the staff of the city attorney.

The city manager.

Oh, the city manager. Sorry. I guess why why aren't any other positions called out here? Why is it just the city clerk?

Believe because the city clerk handles elections as well as the fact that the city clerk is responsible for keeping all of the records of the city and has very specific duties and that are different and distinguishable from a lot of other positions but I would defer to our wonderful city clerk to see if he has anything to add.

No, I mean, that my thought process is the same. It's in line with our city attorney's comments. You can argue that the city clerk position is a long standing position in the history of government from the maintenance of records going back thousands of years and in most charters, that position is specifically annotated out And whether it's under city manager or whoever it's under, it's usually classified as a charter officer Okay. To be specifically provided for.

Are are any other city manager, or delegates point out any other charters? In

our charter, no.

Not in our charter, but any other example of those.

Well, yes, as we've discussed in the last meeting or maybe the meeting before that as some commissioners brought up the possibility of a police chief who, in many instances, answers to the city manager. In some cities, they answer to the city commission, and that's spelled out in the charter.

So so in that case, I was Margate was an example. It's the police chief reporting to the commission, But are there any other examples maybe where the police chief is still reporting to the city manager? Just their duties split out?

I'm not aware of any. We can certainly look.

There are a lot of charter provisions that call out specific or identify kind of the departments on the city and and or the directors of those different departments, but it just identifies them. But often then, it still gives the city manager the ability to revise those. Okay.

Anybody else have any comments about the section related to city clerk, including including the city clerk? I might be awkward, but yeah. No. Any anything that you could see that we're discussing there?

No. I mean, think the wording and the responsibilities are clearly annotated Mhmm. And explained very transparently, so I have no recommended edits or updates at this time. Awesome.

That would be remiss if I didn't take advantage of you sitting next to me. Thank

you. You're very welcome. That's a pretty clean section.

And And a few of our commissioner comments touched on this section along the way.

And Kathy has provided to you the section of city code that provides more specificity with regards to boards and committees. And I think it might be helpful to note that on page two under division two I say on page two of that document under division two section two-eight it talks about really on on page three, the top of page three, it talks about the requirements for the parks and backboard and suggests experience in any of the fields, fitness, health, athletics, recreation, parks, and provide some level of specificity with regards

to

recommended experience for those board members. And then in addition, in section 13 dash 16, which would be on the last page of that document if you're looking at a paper copy or online, it does provide under 13 dash 16 b composition and it does say the planning and zoning board. It says shall to the extent practical represent interest, specialties, and qualifications in any of the following fields, architecture, construction, engineering, environmental science. So there are some specific I don't necessarily wanna go as far as to say requirements, but it does say shall to the extent practicable. So so there are some recommended fields of experience and and backgrounds for the makeup of at least those two boards I know that was brought up in discussion as far as wanting to have some level of requirements or experience.

Yeah. The I think the word interests was in there, and I thought that was kind of a catch all to kinda

Parks and rec, I think.

Make eligible almost anybody.

And I think part of that is because some years you may have a lot of experienced people applying to the board and other years you may not. So it provided the commission with that level of flexibility where they could appoint somebody that maybe has an interest in architecture even if they don't necessarily work as an architect. That kind of a thing just to provide the latitude to be able to appoint those people without having to amend the code. But if that's something that you would like to address, we can discuss it here and make those recommendations. And that most likely would be to the code versus the charge. I

think one of the point, I think Alex, you had brought up was that maybe not the whole board. Right? Maybe one position, like a rotating manager, like, you could have someone with interest come in and be exposed to it. And then next year, when they run into it and again, they come in with more experience.

Yeah. I I mean, if if it was a stronger requirement, probably wouldn't have even applied. So

Yeah. I yeah. And I think I'm just zooming in on that example. I think yeah. I don't think our city would have been better served had it not I

think if it was all five people who had zero Yeah. Architecture and construction, like Mohammed said Yeah. Like, then I would be like, okay. Well, I guess we're all figuring this out together.

Right. And then I guess to what extent I guess, I I would imagine the commission should be considering that as they make their recommendations. Right? So, of course. Well, depending on who's nominated.

And there's three very inexperienced board members and two commissioners are up to nominate two new board members to join in there and they're aware of the current composition. I mean, hopefully, and I guess that's what this language does is it kind of spells out recommended guidelines. Mhmm. If I was a sitting commissioner and there was three green, I'd say green board members in planning and zoning and two of them don't show up to many of the meetings, I would be thinking like, I love to nominate for some somebody I better I should work work a little harder to try to find somebody who's a professional industry in the industry has some experience because collectively, the commission is responsible for that. The composition of that board.

But The term limit, is it two across the board, but I think Park and Recreation is the only exception. Right?

Yeah. They're all one year terms right now, and that's in the code in the general the term of office expire. That's in 02/01/1991 b. The term of office of any board member shall expire on the date of the second regularly scheduled city commission meeting in April of each year of every year. So they're they're all one year terms. They can be appointed multiple times. Apologies. That's what I meant.

There's there's no How many times can they be? There's no limit. There's no alright. Because I wonder

I mean, I don't know.

This needs to be on the charter, but could there be, like, like, how we voted, right, you to to be the chair and Alex to be second in command here. What if if that's not a vote amongst board member more of a hierarchy that's set? So

let's say

and the reason I'm bringing this up is I'm the least experienced person here. Right? So if they're all of us from my level, maybe this discussion will be that fruitful. But what if there's requirement to have a certain level of experience and you can have a position like me where you agree. Right? Maybe a tiered approach that you have to serve a couple of years couple of terms to to kind of lead the board. And we got lucky you have some experience.

I mean I'm okay discussing that. The only thing I can think of though is how does that play out when like if one of the requirements was you've had to have led a board before, it really shrinks down the the candidate pool for who a a a commissioner then could nominate to serve on the board. So

be too

strict. Yeah.

Yeah. I can't then it becomes like you have to have experience for a job, but if nobody will hire you without experience, then you're gonna get experience. Get the experience.

Same thing. Well, no.

I I mean, I'm not saying you couldn't be on board. You just

you're trying to figure out a way for them to be.

Or if you had room slots and veteran slots.

Yeah. Room Basically.

Good way of putting it, yeah. Two tiers. Yeah.

Which Experienced board members or if you've had any board experience and no experience.

Especially for, like

because that would that would help keep it fresh. Right? Because you don't almost always have to break somebody new in there, but you also have to hopefully bring people that been either been there or done something somewhere.

Well, freshmen also you want people to have the experience. I've served for several years. They also know the the ins and outs.

Yeah. So I'm saying you can balance with those if you had, like, some sort of

But since we're only nominating one person from each district, then if you don't have two or three candidates Yeah. That would break up. Experience, then you're automatically in trouble. Now are people usually reappointed? Because it says here they can be reappointed reappointed to certain of the wars, whether it's Parks and Rec or it's supposed to be a TV show. Good name for a TV show. Or or to the planning and zoning. Are people generally reappointed or do they leave at the end of the term?

Generally, they're reappointed if they want to be reappointed. That said, it also depends on each commissioner as well as their board attendance. So if you have a board member who fails to show up, they're probably not going to be reappointed. They may not be eligible for reappointment. If you have somebody who moves out of the area, resigns, what have you, they get a different job, they're not going be reappointed.

Oftentimes, so long as the commissioner is still in office, they will reappoint board members that are doing a good job that show interest in being reappointed. If the seat changes on the commission, then oftentimes the new commissioner will want to appoint their own board member. Does that make any sense? Somebody who they know that represents represents their interest, for lack of a better way to say that. But I do want to point out that the application for serving on a city board, as you may be aware, does provide not only for your experience, but also for you to list your experience, but also what type of civic engagement and experience you might have to show that you're engaged and committed to serving the city, whether it be through Citizens Academy or volunteering for the city and those kinds of things as well.

And the commission considers that, as well as it does ask the question of whether or not you've served on that board or any city board previously. So that way they know, you know, if you are kind of a veteran or rookie as Alex had pointed out.

So is it does each board have to nominate someone within their district or is it an at large nomination?

Each commissioner, I believe that they can nominate at large for PNC and Parks and Rec and Civil Service. I think the only time they have to nominate someone from their district is for the Charter Review Board and Registry Review Board. Yeah. So

for these rookie veteran slots, right, if it's that large, like you're not handcuffed to just your district, right, you can go from the other pools. So it's a little looser there. I just don't know, like, how are the commissioners, Hey, I did a rookie last time you get it this time. I'm like, are they probably gonna chip around?

You got an old hand.

Is it a rotating blind?

That's a tough one to draft. I I think.

Are you just doing two zero two and the mayor can do whatever? You

know, think that given that the board is a to some degree, it's a resource to the commission, To some degree, they serve.

Yeah. It's a volunteer position.

Volunteer position. It's appointed by the commission. The commission is as is the up until it wasn't I think commissioner Ridell shared. It wasn't too long ago that that board had authority, like binding authority. And over the last, I don't know exactly, eight or ten years yeah it was read it was adjusted for the city commission to have final authority over what that what the board recommended. It was planning. Planning and zoning. Planning and zoning. Yeah. So yes.

I guess, zooming in on that. So if it's kind of incumbent upon the commission to manage the composition of that board. And I would think I've never obviously, I never sat in that seat, but I would think that that would be important to them to be aware of the current composition of that board and nominate someone accordingly. Like, if you had a strong board, that'd be a great time to recommend somebody that you like, but it's kind of green, doesn't really have any experience, and that'd be a great time for them to get involved in it. If everybody's green and inexperienced, the board would probably be limited in its functionality and its productivity if you then went ahead and added a fifth person who was green and lacked experience.

Well, I'm

looking also I think it's that large because it does say each member shall nominate one person to fill each position. Doesn't say one person from their district. Yeah. So they do have to pick and sit, basically.

For all but the charter review and the redistricting board.

Well, did did it say from on that one? I don't remember.

In the charter review board language

It's probably from the district. Yeah. I would think but

it could be at large.

They can definitely for the planning and zoning board in the parks and rec. It's definitely at large.

And 907 and 908 of the charter address, charter review board and redistricting board.

So the other thing is, do we wanna put anything in here to say recommend this to commission's discretion? Yeah. Because they had several things that, I wanna say, wouldn't be good, but they have ideas. Like, they're

discussed it. This commissioner Wasserman discussed the possibility of expanding the term to two years. I guess I should say for clarity, was discussed while commissioner Wasserman was here. I don't recall if he specifically brought that up or somebody else brought it up, and his name is just attached to it.

But Yeah. We talked about term limits and term.

And the idea of more than one serving on more than one board at a time.

Yeah. I broke that rule.

I like it.

And if I could as it relates to serving on more than one board at a time There is a provision in state law that deals with dual office holding that generally prohibits that except for there is exception made for serving on the Charter Review Board and another board Which is the situation

So it would already be someone couldn't sit on two boards currently.

That's interesting to me. While we're talking about the boards, not to move on. I don't wanna move on from it just yet. But why we discussed it. I'm I'm trying to remember why. Is it just that the two boards are mentioned in the charter? Not why necessarily. I don't know if there's an answer for that. But and it's not required for is it required for there to be the other boards? The public I know the public safety board was isn't that the one that was maybe sunsetted? Public safety advisory?

Communications. Yeah. Or indications and education and Public safety advisory. And Is that the one that was led by And the yeah.

The education. Miss Lopez. The The communications advisory board. So they were all I think it was just communications advisory board and the public safety advisory board. We we talked about an education advisory out at didn't hurt at that. Oh, sorry. I forgot. At any rate, those were sunsetted. I think they were creative within the last, like, eight years since sunsetted about two or three years ago. I think just because they were having trouble filling the boards was my understanding at that time.

There is really no requirement to have any board other than most cities and counties will have a local land planning agency, which is oftentimes the planning and zoning board, which we have. But again, the final authority was is now under the city commission instead of the planning and zoning board. But we still have to take certain types of things like land development code amendments amendments to chapter 13 to the planning and zoning board. I really think of anything else that's required. Mean, under state law, in order to amend the charter, there's really two methods.

Well, I guess technically there's three, but you can have a charter review board set up for that purpose. The commission can do so, you know, with their own free will or you can have the citizens petition for a change to the charter and then you have to follow the required process which results in basically an ordinance and referenda item that gets voted on by the voters. I can't think of anything else that's really required by law. It makes sense to have a redistricting board in there because we do have districts. Some cities don't have districts, so they wouldn't necessarily have the need for the redistricting board.

And that one's a, like, a later section.

Right? It's a nine zero eight. But you could add the boards into the charter. Would suggest that you not take anything out of the charter as far as charter review board, redistricting board, and even really civil service board. Civil service board is also, I guess, a statutory construct.

Although it just gives a nod to it in here. It doesn't really say much thinking about it. That's under five zero three.

Five zero three.

And that really just provides for a mechanism, I think I mentioned last time, appeal any hiring, firing, or demotion type decisions decisions of civil service employees, which is most employees except for union employees and not what we call administrative officers, which is not management.

Well I guess I do I think I see a distinction though of the boards that were that are detailed in the charter in terms of their maybe level of importance or functionality as compared to other boards but I love the idea of a few more boards and getting some more people involved and putting an emphasis on some areas but maybe that's an area one of you used the terminology, and I don't remember what it was, but kind of making a recommendation to the commission to consider something.

And that's something that you can do. You'll do a final report, and you include any kinds of recommendations in there that you wanted to. And that generally is why they create a lot of boards, to get additional citizen involvement and input and, you know, more voices heard.

Yeah. We seem to have pretty good participation in the Citizens Academy. I hear, at least in my circle, pretty good amount of residents talk about it. And and I think just being involved somewhere is just a logical next step. If if for some people that have gone through the academy, show them the desire to learn more about the city, take taking time to go through it. The city allocates time and budget to putting it on. And

And when they disbanded the boards, they created the ambassadors program as an alternative. That program was done initially, I think, monthly, and then quarterly based on attendance. And it included an educational program about the city and operations, various things going on in the city, and was used to engage with the community, to get communication to go back and forth, educate the people who participated, provide them information to take out into the community, and provide a venue for those people to provide information to city staff. So that was a program that they utilized fairly successfully when they did get rid of the boards.

Did the education work? What did we had that at one point. We still have it on an ad hoc basis, the education.

I'm not sure if you're right now.

What is it really?

They were actually very active, And it might can get a summary, then provide a summary to you of kind of their activity. But they were extremely active in the schools and with all of the Coconut Creek schools.

Was there a reasoning for Sunseting that?

I think it had more to do with just the amount of staff time that was involved. Their main focus tended to be really putting on this team political forum every year, which was you know, it would have a theme. It involved all of the different high schools from the area. And they would kind of come up with a teen version of a town hall where they would ask elected officials questions and engage the audience as well. And the audience was often other kids from their schools in order to help keep teens engaged, and civics and that kind of a thing.

We do still have, which is something that existed before that board was created and after it went away, but Lunch Bunch program, which is a joint meeting that happens, I guess, what, quarterly or so during the school year that provides for the school principals, all of the school principals, the city commission, oftentimes even our state and federal legislators will come as well. And it provides us with the opportunity to communicate directly with the and usually our local school board member will come also. And we're able to provide them with updates regarding development and new and interesting things happening around the city, and they provide us with information and communication about everything from the latest test scores to other types happenings and events and clubs and, you know, tournaments and things happening in the schools just to help kind of bridge the gap in communication and make sure everyone's on the same page there. And that's been very productive and helpful, and that has continued. But I think that the team political forum, which really was kind of the focus of the education board, just got to be a lot of work to put on every year.

But I've really looked at education, actually, with the the schools themselves. I mean, again, gotta plead ignorance, but I know up north in the counties outside of New York, each town had it, or each town or village would have its school board, and the schools would be that school district. And here we do it county wide. So the elected officials are elected to the Broward County School Board. Correct? Right. So there's no Coconut Creek. Correct. So curriculum decisions like that, tenure decisions, etcetera, don't go to a local I guess, there tenure down here?

I'm sorry?

Is there tenure for faculty in Florida? I'm not even sure.

There is. But, you know, and I forgot to mention this, the city also is part of, and this is kind of a unique situation that evolved from an agreement between the city and the Seminole tribe wherein we created a an education foundation, and there are representatives of the city, the Seminole tribe, as well as from the school board. There's one representative of the schools who sits on that board, and they help determine the city gets certain dollars as part of a mitigation agreement having to do with the impacts of the casino on the city that was worked out in like 2011. And basically, that board decides what to do with that scholarship money, which is around, I think, 250,000 a year. And so they will have regular meetings and discuss, you know, giving money to the schools to help fund different programs.

The schools have to apply for it, as well as for students, as well as for test prep and those kinds of things. So the city is also still involved in that as a result of, again, that ongoing agreement that we have with the Seminole tribe. So it just, again, I think kinda got to be too much.

Also Mainly because of budget?

Really more just staffing. Just with everything going on with Main Street and we started our own fire department and lots of other things, I think that the focus kind of came off of that. Plus, I think the schools were getting a little tired of having to also orchestrate on their end the students students every every year year to to participate participate in in the the team political forum. And so just that piece of it was stopped, I think, just a year ago, right?

So I've seen lot of activity, especially on LinkedIn and social media around it. I've never seen younger generation participate and be proud of their participation in those type activities. So I like to revisit that and see possibly the day, this you know, our school does a great job, but, you know, it's it's a maybe a whole different topic, but it's it's so hyper focused. Between those four walls, you don't get have the experience on pretty much anything. You graduate high school, you have

nothing. Yeah.

The process activity Hold up

on that.

The activity you were describing with the students, the labor intensive one, my words and my ears, it it kind of reminded me a little bit of a governmental version of like what Junior Achievement does in the business area where high schools will go there or middle schools I think maybe go there, they assume a role for the day, then one manages the bank and somebody else, they're gonna put together marketing plans and they get some kind of hands on business. I both of my kids went through that process of visiting junior achievement and not a direct I mean, I can certainly see the value, but I get that it's labor intensive as well, but I'd like to see.

I'm monitoring that as we had that up north with internship programs, basically, where types of seniors work in a business. Mhmm. I mean, the next week and the

I format can definitely change. It doesn't have to be a political form. Right? But having a board coming up with creative idea ways, both practical and budget, you know, economical to put something together, but definitely get the younger generation involved. Yeah. I just got an email on my way

in here today to go to the vocational school on Coconut Creek Parkway. They have a culinary program, and going in there and speaking students and having students ask questions and talk about the application of what they're learning in the real world. And I thought, well, that was kind of interesting. I just gotta check this

It's hands down the best. I set up a board at HSMIA and, again, hospitality related. You can have the book experience, but having someone like yourself you're a digital owner. Right? The nitty gritty detail of running a business and just being able to ask those questions that are not gonna be found in the textbook in a manner that they could comprehend. That provides a lot of value.

If you're interested in that kind of thing, I think actually tomorrow in Chambers do you know

what time it is? The mock meeting? Yeah. I believe it's tomorrow at nine.

And it's Atlantic Technical? Correct. Atlantic Technical School is having kind of a mock commission meeting where students are participating as as mock commissioners and there are like 90 students signed up to come So and watch there was some interest in that. And, I mean, that's not part of a board or anything, but the city commission had just decided to support Atlantic Technical School. They made the request. Atlantic Technical School did, and, you know, we're accommodating that to help teach the students about government and that kind of thing. So you can do those kinds of things even without a board. But anyhow, just I'm mentioning it in case you're interested. Yeah, thank you.

And the city does do a pretty extensive it did do last year a pretty extensive high school internship program that operated throughout, I think, every city department almost, almost every single department. And they also are always in the local schools for local government day, both commissioners and staff.

Okay. Yeah. So I think what I you hear say, Mohammad, is if there's any any opportunity for us to enhance the educational experience, the the output of the schools in our city, it's worth discussing and Yep. Seeing if there's something we something we could do. And I wasn't I wasn't aware of what you what you just mentioned about the internships and I guess I guess that could speak to one of the other boards was a, like, a public information or a community engagement.

The one that Yvonne It was communications. Yeah. Communications advisory board. Yeah. Something like

I'm sorry. Communications outreach advisory board. Thank you. Well, I I have it written down. I couldn't find what page

it was on.

There were six of them at the time. It's hard to keep track of them. Sorry. I me at camper left. We can't remember what

the six of them was. Alright. Well, moving on, I guess, from qualifications to serve on the board in article five brings us to article six of financial procedures. And I should say, read through this once. First pass, I didn't have any real comments to it, but we did discuss possibly with mayor Welsh.

What's it? Lapse and appropriations.

Sheila. Sheila. That's okay. Thank you.

She and and at PewDay Lake will be with the finance and administrative services director. We'll be back next week to discuss that in lockdown.

I'm fine skipping this entirely knowing that, Until for now. Until next week. Makes sense. And and unless we have the benefit to talking about if anybody has anything that's worth talking about without that's fine too. But and I had a couple questions about one question about typing, but that would make more sense for me. Bless

you. Thank you.

You did you said you had a question about Yeah.

I mean? I'm looking for it now. I don't know what page I heard it on, but just as the the dates on the budget worked, and but I'll find it and have it prepared for next.

I know it starts off with the August.

Thought I mentioned I mentioned something once about lapse of appropriations. I don't remember what I just recall that the first meeting. Don't why.

Yeah. We we needed more clarity, and Sheila and the finance director are coming next next session. For

that too. Okay.

Yeah. Think there was some appetite to not have the appropriation lapse after five years. Mhmm. Yeah. And have it continue perpetually or five additional years.

Yeah. For capital expenditures, specifically.

So question on just the structure. So the budget is annually, and then is the five year capital improvement plan also annually or does it?

It is. It gets updated annually. So some things will fall off and other things either because they were So it's overrule. Right. Or because it expired per the charter and then new things would be added each And again, you know, the capital items are kind of large dollar items whether it be buildings or fire trucks or, you know, those kinds of things.

Yeah. Wanted to I remember my question. I wanted to learn more about the the increase in the city revenue from property taxes each year. I wanted to kinda understand how that how that's forecast or accounted for and impacts the budget. Is it always allocate are they are they're always is it always is the money is the increase in property tax revenue always spent? Is it or always accounted for as an expense in the budget somewhere? Or is the budget ever set and The surplus, basically. Yeah. Like

That's what I was wondering. And could it be

You know, just in my personal finances, if I make more money next year than I made this year, I don't have to increase my expenses. I'm allowed to just put some money in the bank for the future. And I don't know how that works at all at the government level.

You obviously don't have a five year capital improvement plan. I know. But I think Craig makes a good point though. Budget is continuing to go up on both sides, right? And is the increase in expenses fed from, I guess, prior surpluses? What happens when, I guess, the city has a surplus? They roll it into projects the next year? Or is there some other decision making? It's just sitting in the bank.

They bank it. Normally, my experience has been if they got it, they'll spend it. Right. We're trying to apply it to expenses for the next year or project

for the next year. Right. Capital improvement plan. Yeah.

So it's capital improvement or whatever. If it's there

Hiring people.

Yeah. And then and then conversely, what impact is there to the income of the city when we don't go through a period of five years or ten years of significant real estate value increases. The last several years have been pretty great for our real estate market. Every time somebody moves, somebody else buys and the house gets reassessed and the property value or the property tax go up and a large portion or some portion of the property taxes, lion's share of the property taxes I think go to the county and some portion of it comes to the city. So money's flowing really well as properties are going up and I'd like to think money's put aside for when we go through periods of time when the property values aren't increasing.

I guess it comes down to setting millage rates.

Well, you're 2,007, 2,008 Right. Where the values went down. I would imagine that when we took in the taxes, might have gone might have gone down. I don't know. I don't know whether nothing

changed or were recessed. Or might have just changed the mill increased the millage rate

to still So it stayed about

the consume the amount of income. I I don't know the answer, but I I wanted to ask a few questions along

those never seen real estate taxes go down.

It's not

Less far. It's very different. I've never seen them go down. Not Dreaded.

They can go down without knocking it for more than just 400, probably. Yeah. I guess, I mean, I thought about this too, but if somebody hasn't moved in a while, right, the next person that buys that place is gonna pay 75% more in property taxes than some of you who sold their house fifteen years ago. So it kinda resets on a rolling basis though. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, the millage rate, I I I don't know. Think it what is the comparison of millage rates in the budget where Coconut Creek sits? I could've swore I saw it. I could've swore I saw it in the budget.

Like where it sits county wide, like Yeah.

Ranking? County? At least county, maybe even state. I think it also said that commission increased the military's lead as well. So

Yeah. We did I think I don't know what the proper term is, but no. We we increased I don't know if it was in the millage rate or, like, a special type of additional levy when we raised money for the firehouse and

some other capital. What impact do you special that was an assessment.

Couple years ago when we created the fire department, there was a fire assessment fee that was established roughly twenty twenty one ish. There was millage increase this last budget cycle to help basically pay for the new fire station that needs to be built for to take the place of temporary Station 113. But Pedigay Lake can better answer all of the questions that you just mentioned earlier. So Could you much more specificity. That's awesome. And she'll be Good. The next meeting.

Could you spell her name for me? Sure. Wanna make sure I say it properly.

P e t a dash capital g a y. Got it. And then lake, like a body of water. Got it. And she's the director of finance and administrative services.

Alright. So I'm I'm good with kinda punting this section till next week. Sam. Excellent.

Almost 600.

That brings us to section seven zero one.

Basically using Broward County registration and elector criteria. Correct.

Just to

Does anybody down in Broward County say, nah. We'll do it on our own?

I don't know that they can at this point, Ken.

I don't think so. I've I've never heard of such a thing.

Still worried. So it's a state law reference, and they there's some wording change here.

Are you referencing in 07/2001? Yeah. Yes. In 2016, it was changed. I don't remember the exact specifics, but it was changed in order to make it consistent with state law.

No. Alright. Well, was wondering, I don't think

I believe there was oh, the mayor had mentioned something about as well as vice mayor Raley and commissioner Riedel. They all talked about the date of the elections. Yeah. Which is 07/2006.

And then I forget who one of them didn't wanna change, but the rest, they wanted to change in

a line at the November election. Kusha Murphy liked March, and I think two other ones stated November. I'm not sure if the other two. Could have been three other ones, say, in November. And then there

is a possibility that the state mandated to be in November for some and I think our city clerk also mentioned there was a cost analysis done that it it would save money to happen in November, right?

Based on the current projections and then again, making some assumptions, you know, projecting out four, five, six years. I'm pretty confident there would be a cost savings, but that margin being narrowed as every year it goes by, those have been unforeseen things that are hard to project.

So this state does have the authority to say that all elections will be held in November, even municipal elections like ours?

They do have the ability to preempt certain state laws or issues in the state law, and that is one of them. Obviously, it would put the city in a little bit of a bind because we would then have to change our charter to be consistent with state law. Hopefully, they don't do that before the new lineup in 2029 because that just complicates matters quite a bit. Further.

I know you can't speak for the state, but what would the state's like, what's their dog in that fight? Like, what's their reasoning to get involved in when a municipality would wanna hold their elections?

That's my understanding is but yeah. Yeah.

I tell you, I've been yeah. I've been chewing on this one. This one really meant nothing to me a month ago. I've been kinda chewing on it, it caught caught my attention. And I've been asking people pros, cons, pros, cons back and forth.

And people mentioned a bigger turnout in November, which is a pro, probably a pro. But then there's that kind of the confusion, the all the extra stuff on the ballots, the state stuff, the national stuff, the county stuff. Personally, distill more it and I'm just sharing my thoughts but I love the idea of a march election that just focuses on city stuff and accompanied by like advertising and forums and referendums and educational things, and the and I don't know how possible it is, and I know that the cloud of the state law kinda looms over it. But in my life and in business, anytime I find an area where you can be uniquely better, like differentiate yourself a little bit, it's always intriguing to me. And so to me I thought that kind was of an interesting thing to I've I've just been chewing on it.

Also, the I would love any opportunity in any area to protect the city from partisanship. I think on a national level, there's just such a polarization of politics. We've seen it, I guess, little bit locally here, and it really stings of this polarization. And I think for that reason that maybe it's recommended or the state's considering it. There's just a November for me feels like there's a it's a conduit to bring the partisanship and the big party things into the election. I was always buying objection to it because I saw that happen. You know, whether it's people I've talked to

seem to be more and more, you know, feeling they they'd rather keep a separate election. They keep the all of the election in in the city separate from the national and all of the other BS it's called.

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Okay. So you had I've had similar conversations with people. Just asking. Just I'm just trying to understand the

then there's few you know, it's it's probably three to one, I would think. There's always one who thinks it'll be better to go and just join in with the with the state or the, you know, the country. But and the others all think it'd be better city the size of Creek could keep their own election and just concentrate on their own people running and, you know, that kind of stuff.

And they could see us doing a better job as a city than every city should in terms of getting out the vote and communicating with people the importance of voting in a local election. I mean, I understand what, you know, what commissioner right Riddell said that, yeah, we've got 10% turnout. That's abominable. It's inexcusable. But I think if you can communicate over and over to people the impact that local officials have on your life, And these are the people who are fixing your roads.

These are the people who are raising your taxes. These are the, you know, this Mhmm. So they're the ones you should come out and vote for. I know that's the battle that I fought before was that, oh, it's just twice we have to go out and vote. We used to have three because we had a school board election that was separate. So arguing people said we have voting you know, we have poll polling areas, polling stations every 50 feet in this town. Why is why is it such a problem for you to go out and vote two or three times in a year? That was really the biggest complaint. Oh, I don't want to do this.

I've actually flip flopped. I was all about March, and then I saw our ballot, and I was like, man, I would've rather have done this in November. So I totally understand, though, like, okay, you want your specific issues. It's like, you can't have your cake needed too when you don't have that many issues or only three candidates to pick from. You know, three items in one row.

You can't say like, oh, I would have rather moved this, there's no flexibility there. So I'm just kind of going back and forth on it. I think would obviously punt it with any change until after the cycle. But, yeah, I was all about marching then. Was like, well The other thing, I guess, it's part of the election timing, is the registration, I guess, of candidates?

Is that still the same timeline as it would be for November, when elections occur in November? Because I feel like and maybe even not Kenneth, but I feel like I saw a lot more about the ordinance being on the November ballot than I'm seeing about this March election. And even, like, Coconut Creek emails, communications at the recreation center, whatever it might be, I feel like there was a maybe just the November election, a bigger, like, lead up timeline. And so am I accurate in saying or are the timelines the same, I guess, and when issues get out there to say, Hey, this is only an upcoming election?

Yeah, so going back to the November referendum for 2024, we implemented a whole new promotional strategy that was never done in the history of the city of Coconut Creek. And I'll argue, probably pushed the boundaries of what cities, even in the state of Florida, have done. We looked at what other cities did, and we took the best of the best to put them together. So November was essentially the test. So we took that and tweaked it, and we even pushed the envelope more for March.

Okay. So the timeline was about the same, and the metrics were the same plus more. So, what you're seeing, it should be more for the March election. The fact that your perception is different is kind of interesting because our metrics are above what we did for November, and the timeline was even slightly sooner. So that's interesting feedback that you're providing too.

My time perception is all messed up. Right now, I have a two month old at home,

so there might be a

little bit of bias from

my side.

Time is meaningless for you right now. So so is sleep.

So my note I'm taking is I'm starting to promote twenty twenty nine elections tomorrow.

Just kidding. And from what I understand, that's largely you, by the way. The all the increase in emphasis and the awareness, that all comes out of your office from what

I understand. It's a team effort. I mean, talking with community relations, getting feedback from our city manager, getting feedback from the community, other clerks, or what other cities do. I'm very big on data mining and trying to take really good ideas that I don't have and then putting them in a pot and like, okay, what can we do with this? Try something different. So

Well, the people I spoke to all mentioned your name, and some of them mentioned some other ones.

It's the girl's got cookies. Yeah. It's all it is.

So and then on this point, on this on this topic, another thing I came across was the November election, the polls are open for a longer period of time requiring more staffing maybe or manning on behalf of the candidate or from a candidate. Is that correct? Are they open for

Well, you have early voting for the November elections that you don't have for the March elections. For the March elections, you can vote by absentee ballot or you have to show up on the day of. So, yes, that would be correct.

So right. So the opinion I was starting to form in my head was that November elections would better benefit candidates with deeper pockets than March elections. In some in some instances, the March elections wouldn't require as much financially necessarily for candidates. And I thought the November election's costing more that partisanship and money coming from parties, and I, you know, I hope we never become a city where the Republican party and the Democrat parties are funneling large amounts of money into our local elections to try to but everything's becoming more partisan. So and and I'm admittedly a rookie, I'm not even a rookie, a novice at this stuff, but just anywhere in our process that there's an opportunity if I see a little light on to try to keep our city local, I wanna try to explore pursue it.

I don't know if this is a good example of one, but it was one to me worth just discussing a little bit.

Do do you think that party affiliation is absent by having it in March? Like, truly instead of just a sign board.

Well, to my knowledge, the the candidates aren't listed with a party affiliation at the local level. But when I go to the November election, I'm either researching all of these things myself or I'm pulling out my little voter guide from my local democrat club or republican club or christian coalition or Jewish federation, whatever my my bent is. And they break down all of the candidates, all of the issues, and I go, okay. Well, I know who I'm voting for for president. And then kind of once I get beyond that and and maybe the senator or whatever and then I'm looking at my guide because I see people show up at the polls with these things and they tell me who to vote for for the seventeenth circuit judge and for the county dog catcher and the city commissioners and and that's kind of where I've seen the partisanship injected the local level and they will tell me to vote for this city commissioner or that city commissioner based on what their party affiliation is and they know what their party affiliation is because they see where the money is coming from.

I

see the judges. The judges. Don't know who the judges are. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Who who did you vote for? I don't know they had a dean next to their name. Right.

That was say. Yep. So yeah. So yeah. So the March election is absent to all that stuff. Yeah. So a lot of that stuff, anyway, most of that stuff. So

And I think you you find that with with the November election. People would tend to gravitate more towards the party because they're looking to that support. And that's and that's state, if it's dominated by one party, we'd say, well, here's an opportunity for us to get more members of our party elected at the local level because people will do that. They'll walk the party line. So let's push this through the party control legislature.

Question. Other cities that have their election in November, do do they have to have affiliation with the party? Like, when, like, the ballot, does it have a D or

a R or whatever? No. So local government elections at the city level are supposed to be nonpartisan. Yeah. Now that being said, most candidates are affiliated with a particular party, but the idea is that you're not electing based on their party status. You're just electing based on, you know, whoever you think can do a good job.

So my concern was, to your point, was that, okay, you know, people that are not aware of their city, you know, representative of who they're voting for picking just who the Asian was. There isn't any, then that nullifies that point. And So just From experience, I've been living in the city over twenty years since I was little kid. I went to Lions Creek, went to Monarch, went to FBU. Now I got my kids going to Winston Park. I never voted at

the city section. Not at once.

Hopefully this year will be the first time. There's no guarantee. And I got two little ones. If they get sick, I might not make it. And that's just that one day. And I'm trying to be as informed about the city. I think all of us, since we're volunteering, right, as much as we can be. So the way I see it is even you there's a point about ballot fatigue, I think that was mentioned. Even at that, I think it makes sense for us to be in the November election. And if that gives us a chance to save money on top of that, the amount of people that might be conscious, but they're just not coming to the March election, but they would vote.

And sometime,

and this

is my perception only, is that I feel like people that are showing up is that 3,000, I think they mentioned 3,500 or something along those lines, that are voting at the city election. They might be so involved that instead of a party affiliation, they might be some other way influenced. So that's my take on that.

Yeah. Yeah. And I and I don't yeah. I don't think yeah. I think the party affiliation part really only kinda matters from the outside groups promoting, supporting, financing, endorsing everybody.

But

to me as a voter, the candidate that knocks on my door, asks me some questions, asks me for feedback or input, shakes my hand, and hands me their campaign card on the way out. That's the person that's probably getting my vote in a given city election, whether it's November or March. Like, I'm not I wouldn't be I personally wouldn't be over overly reliant on outside information. But as you said, we're we're probably a little more active or intentional about city things than than most of the residents in the city.

I mean, the the people who vote in in the November election, if you're voting for a city city officials or city referendum in the November election, are you voting because you know who they are? Or are voting because you just happen to be there because you went to vote for president, senator, and governor? Right. So does that make you any more informed? And even if there's no r or d or I next to the name, sometimes it's just ballot placement.

Placement. If republican, let's say, is always the first or democrat the first, whoever happens to be first, there's that assumption again, I'm doing this from experience. Remember, there's that assumption, oh, yeah. She must a Democrat or she must be a Republican because she's in the same position as the others. And they they vote the party line. It's it's unfortunate. I would love to see a 50%. I'd love to see an 80% turn out local elections. Anyway.

Anyway.

I had a question though about seven zero two. Election precincts. Would that be the same as districts? How are they differentiating?

What is it? No. I believe

that actually has to do with where you vote, which is established by the supervisor of elections.

Because we still have the right to establish our own districts districts with with our our with our redistricting board as opposed to the state stepping in. So Okay.

It's a naive question. But is there a way I I swore there was a way to opt in to always get your mail invalid, that right. I had to had to request this one again after, I guess, I thought

Yeah. Challenge has stayed long. I have changed. Yeah. And we've been trying to push that information on our website, the. CocoGram Mhmm. And, you know, every media that we can. Because it it's a hard thing to explain for people to understand it because it's a lot of verbiage and a lot of technicality with the state being. But the message is Get your mouth. Exactly. Just do this and put the minus February 27. Yes. So that's the message you're trying to get out there. But he started communicating that stuff.

I'm not people, you know, without

a doubt. But we're trying to do our best. I know at least

35 set up for automatic Pardon me. Sorry. Because we

are recording at home, so we just have one talking at a time. Sorry.

So three how many am I right? Was, like, 3,000 or 5,000 mail in ballots that were previously requested continually and then when the state law changed the number went down to like just a few 100.

If I were caught, commissioner right now is the one that shared that statistic. I don't remember the exact mechanics but it was definitely significantly lower at the time you mentioned the statistic but there is no time to request a ballot.

And I think now that number is been growing.

I would hope so. Quickly. Yep.

But I think it may be around a thousand now or something like that. But, you know, it continues to grow.

Now will we have to do that every year? Request a mail in ballot. Each year, we're gonna do it again.

I'm not sure.

That's something to with the charges. That was a question.

Right. I I'm not sure. I probably shouldn't know that answer, but sorry. I didn't know it offhand since the law just changed. We'll look into

it. That's what I'm struggling.

So I believe if you request the ballot after 01/01/2025, I think that's because the deadline was 12/31/2024. Your vote by mail is good from 01/01/2025 to 12/31/2026, would be my understanding, based on the state law.

So two years. So for twenty seven election, we'd

have to

request again.

That is my understanding. Correct.

The filing fee for candidates, does that need to be in the charter? Is that a state a state set dollar amount?

So

the way it works is that typically, and I can't speak for all Broward County municipalities or municipalities in the state of Florida but typically, there's two filing fees. There's the fee that is set by the municipality which is typically in the charter which is the fee you see here for a $125. Then, there's a state filing fee which is a percentage of the city commission salary which gets remitted to the state. So there's two filing fees for most municipal elections in the state of Florida. Unless there's some odd ball municipality that has a third fee or some administrative fee.

I'm not aware, but that's typically the structure for municipal elections. And the reason for the $125 fee, and I'll defer to Terrell to correct me on this, is to handle the administrative paperwork and auto qualifying and the work that is put into that is a fee to cover that, but there's also a realization of the fee of not making it so substantial or too expensive that you're deterring people that want to run as a candidate to create some type of a barrier for participating in that process. I'm sure you explained much more verbosely than I just did.

I think you did a

wonderful job explaining it even though

I might use more words. With that said, I will say that there is also the possibility under state law to seek a waiver of that fee, but you have to obtain so many so many signatures in order to do that.

It's called an affidavit of undue burden.

Right. You know, if you said I I don't have the money to do it but I still want to run. That is still available to you as a candidate as well.

Or the other way the state the way the state fee is you get a certain amount of signatures of registered voters. And if they sign that, you can waive the state fee as well. That can be

done as another mechanic. Interesting. Yeah.

Yeah. My question, I didn't realize that it was that it was the local fee and then a plus an addition on into or plus there. So I just thought maybe it was just stating what the state law was. That makes sense to me. And there's gotta be I'm sure the $125 barely scratches the surface of the cost associated receiving an application. But it's got to be something, right?

It is a market in my opinion.

To your point, Justin, is that an election assessment, that fee that you were talking about?

Correct. So when a candidate shows up to pay the qualifying fees, they draw two checks on their campaign account. One check is $125 which is our city election assessment. Then, there's another check which is the election assessment reference in this section which is 1% of the city commission salary. We take in both checks. The 125 stays with us. We remit the 1% for all the candidates to the state and pay them. Hopefully, that explains Sure. That clip. Mhmm.

Okay. Yeah. So it's gotta be something else. K. We're at the risk of 10 guys leaving happy hour down the street one day and saying that's all fill out forms to run for office.

It's probably up. A $125

at least deterred a little bit and the state feel deterred a little bit more.

Commission now. This is interesting. All elections shall be nonpartisan. So, technically, you couldn't have a candidate say, I've been endorsed by by the Democratic Party

or Republican Party. So you can sort of. There is a requirement on certain electioneering communications that if, for example, if such and such party is putting out a communication to saying that they endorse such and such party, then that is permitted. And there has been more of that in recent years. This language just tracks the state law providing again that for local government that the election, the seats are nonpartisan versus some of the other higher level offices.

So again, the idea is that the public is not, you're not gonna have a primary, the public not voting on whether or you're Republican or Democrat or other. It really is just, you know, you're voting for the candidate. But sometimes, again, they may be backed by a particular party.

So a party can put out the pamphlet, you know, paid for by the Coconut Creek Democratic Committee or Democratic club or whatever.

Yes. And that has happened in recent years in several cities nearby.

Performed. Section

seven twelve, titling of proposed ordinances. Does that got to do with, like, the ballot language?

No. That actually well, sorry. An ordinance proposed to the electorate, yes. That would have to do with the ballot language, and that essentially, in very vague terms, tracks the state statute. And that it's just not as specific as state law.

It does say valid shall be in the form prescribed by Florida statutes. So for example, the title can be no more than 15 words, and then the body of the item on the ballot can be no more than 75 words. And if you want more information, the idea is you go look at the actual ordinance passed by the government to determine what it actually says.

Determines the languages on the ballot. I've noticed that we have several languages. Who makes that determination?

You mean Spanish and Creole?

I think there were even more if I recall.

I think it depends on which election. I wanna say it's the state. Do either of you have more information on that?

Yeah. So, that's kind of interesting topic to bring up. So, it is the state but there is not much consistency with municipalities for the vow language. So, Broward SOE, Broward Supervisor Election used to provide translation services and they pushed it back to the cities a couple years ago. I will say it it the biggest compliment is that it is inconsistent across municipalities.

In the city of Coconut Creek, we decided to do it at the max level of Haitian Creole and Spanish and English for all our ads and then keep them separate because we feel as a resident trying to combine them because what some cities do to save money is that they'll have a sentence in English and then their translation to Creole and Spanish, and that is repeated and it's staggered. So while you may save a few $100, nobody's gonna be happy reading that because it's not consistent. So we decided to pay a little extra money and have the display ads all English, all Spanish, all Creole, and then that's our ad that we do. It's a ballot from SOE. That translation, they provide on the ballot itself, and we take that imprint, the image, and put it in

the ad. Yeah. That was just curious as to how it was decided. Yeah. What languages?

But if you look throughout Broward County, it it is definitely inconsistent without a doubt.

No chance we got a Yiddish on

that. What

was that?

No chance we get a Yiddish on the ballot.

There's one in the bucket. I

couldn't read it. It's okay. So it's just another sign.

Any other questions or comments, gentlemen, about elections? And how's everybody doing on time?

Usually get to the polling. Yeah.

I know. Third. It's okay. Right?

He has a two month old. He's hiding. Earlier.

If I could ask you guys section eight. I freeze through it a little bit, but other I guess I'm trying to decide here if it makes sense to wind down at the beginning of a new section, or is it the kind is it once we get into it, are there any natural braking spots here soon? Or in your opinion.

This is initiative referendum and recalls, but it's kind of

a meaty section. It's meaty. It's long. I believe we had at least a couple issues raised on it. If you want to go through the issue list at all, then I would stop and do that because it is a Carol's writing. So it's

a Long That's what was thinking. Maybe we'll just break it. Oh, section o one and

a specific direction. Yes. Attributed kind of to us.

Yes. Specifying city manager and city attorney. Mhmm.

Yeah. So there's proposed language and just whether you have a preference in how the second part of it is worded.

For redundancy's sake, I think it's both of them. And which one? Just the very first thing. So the wording Oh. We changed it from all other officers, city manager, city attorney. I think we're good on that. But then there's the option of the pronoun or actually spelled out. I think actually spelled out keeps it consistent and explicit.

Is there a general consensus on that point?

I'm in agree I'm in agreement with you. Okay.

I

think that was brought up by at least one or two of us, I think prior to any commissioners coming in to the room, and then it was brought up by another couple of commissioners and maybe notwithstanding some of the more specific details of how to word it or whatever, but in general I'm in support of a commissioner not being seated and serving on an HOA or COA board. Doesn't mean they can't run for office. Doesn't mean they can't be elected for office, but I think at the point at which they'd be sworn in, I think so. I agree with that.

And if I could only because it came up during the discussions, there was something raised at some point as it related to the spouse. We did some research on that and think that that may be a little too far attenuated to be supportable by law. So, but as it relates to the actual board member themselves, we believe that most likely would be supportable. And we only say that because there were no cases directly on point.

Okay. Thank you. I'm good with that.

Does anybody else have any

I I don't think the officer I don't think it needs to be, like or or just like So I guess you can only be an officer, right? I think we talked about maybe committees and some other things, but I think only an officer of the board makes sense. I agree. If you wanna make a more specific president or vice president. But if you serve

on the architectural review committee of your neighborhood association.

If you serve it in as an on the committee but are not part of the board, I think you can still do that. I think I agree.

Well, we have that. We have several levels. We have people on the architectural review committee or review board to learn members of the management committee. Now I guess in certain situations, and I see, believe me, I mean, even though some people won't be happy with me, I see the reason for this. In certain areas though, in certain communities, I look at mine for example, I could be serving on the board and president of my association board, which actually turns out as one building, within a community that has 134 buildings, and not be on the management committee as I happen to be a council vice president.

So Right. That's the difference. Right? So

so so maybe it would be worth considering Master HOA? Yeah. Or size.

A master or a master association would be the because, yeah, that's what it's We have more community council, for example, is the master association.

You could be but you could be on the board of a 200 home community association that doesn't have a master. But I can see where if you were to the I know, like I don't I don't know this, I guess, but I I know in Century Village, which sounds like what you're saying is similarly Mhmm. Composition, each building of 12 units might be an association. Right. It could be 24 units or something. And then, so maybe the way to delineate how do you have how many units are, like, in a building? Is there

Well, they vary from 16. For example, vice mayor Rayleigh happens to be the president of a 16 unit condominium association as well as of Windmill Community Council. I've got 48 units. You got there are thirty two and fifty six. So it's sixteen, thirty two.

Yep. Forty eight and fifty six units. Minus a 48 unit building. So I would say in a situation like that, perhaps you wouldn't need to step down because you're one building out of a large association and you're right Century Village they're all separate associations but I could see it in the master association because yeah there's an impact.

My community is 61 homes, so it's on the smaller side of the neighborhoods, but I've been the board member or president of it for, I don't know, a bunch of years. And I would, like, I would if I were if I were elected to a city commission office, I would do it on my own just to avoid any potential conflict or appearance of conflict or just to not welcome any additional scrutiny to it. Yeah. I agree. But I can see we're a small a subordinate I guess those buildings aren't really subordinate boards. They're not subordinate committees. They are their own board, but they are really micro.

Where each one is actually independent not well, not each. There's 44 separate associations. Some are multi condominium. There's a number of buildings in each association. Each one is a separately registered incorporated corporation. Mine is Victoria f Condominium Association Inc, registered in the state. So but then there's also the community council, which is the master. I can see it from the master. I personally would probably step down if I ran for commission or

Yeah. And I understand. I'm sensitive to the fact that you're in a unique position with maybe you serve on board with a commissioner who's also on that board and yeah. I don't wanna put you in any uncomfortable positions as we're discussing it either. But

Well, not arguing against

Yeah. I understand.

No. I see what you're saying.

But the current yeah. The current conflict that's kinda bubbling up in the city is completely unfortunate. And I don't know. I think if the commissioner had a crystal ball, she she might have said, you know what? I don't

think it's not

worth describing because it opens up the door for it, right? And all the hassle at the city commission chambers. And I don't know if it's different if it's a See, because there's a lot of single family communities that are they are the master association.

Like, there are

sub associations. Right? So

and Mhmm. That maybe have 200 or 300 homes in it, and there is they are the master association. But they're not referred to as the master association just because there's only one. But so if there was a way to delineate that, but then I think of Winston Park which has a master association, association, but then it's got several, I think, multiple hundred, two hundred, 300 home associations that are under, so they're all significantly sized communities as well. So I think

the way we're set up with so many of these homeland associations kind of many of the associations it makes it difficult to figure out do you set it by size or perhaps the master association would be good if you have a master association, if you don't have a master association, it's not a problem. In your case, you've got 61 homes, it wouldn't be a problem. You that's the master association.

Yeah. I'd wanna protect I'd wanna protect against even in my case. But then but then there's a big wide gap in the middle. Like

I I just keep it general on both like It seems like we're like, obviously, there's a literal example of it now, but in the future, would the character of someone running for city commissioner, knowing historically what has happened, blatantly say, yes, I'm gonna fly into the sun? Or do just like, no. We'll steer your way into safety. Don't do it. Don't don't bring that conflict to the city and public forums.

So I don't know. It seems like a protection for sure. I have nothing for it. I just don't know if it I feel like it should be pulling good enough to say, like, yeah. Don't even don't even think about it because it obviously wasn't worth it the first time. Like, you you said you would resign. Right? So it's it's

a Well

HOA is HOA is

Well, I'm saying is I wouldn't necessarily resign from the board of my building because I don't

see that that would

have an effect. I can see resigning from the master association.

If you had to if you had to resign, would you be upset, I guess? You say, you I'd know probably

be happy considering I wouldn't

be talking to myself. That's not

the Why isn't my cable working?

That's the other part. Right? Would you would you be upset or feel slighted to to have to to have to resign? Or is it like a valentrost is off my neck now?

Hard to say. So

I mean, that step only comes in, like you mentioned, if you were swollen. Right? If not If you win. If you win, basically. Mhmm. So if not, then I think you go back to it and still serve with the community. So in my humble opinion, I think it's a safe bet protecting the city's resources as well as the the candidate that's, you know, potentially can hold up this.

So what I'm hearing is consensus to draft it. I think, for across the board, and then you can add it from there Yeah. I think based on what I've heard.

We still got time to

Yeah.

We'll we'll we'll draft. We'll bring back language Yeah.

So draft.

Just like like we did with this. Here's some ideas based on what you've said. Revise. Yay. Nay. Did we hear you wrong?

Yeah.

Tell you that.

Sounds good.

For putting this document together, Bradley. This is very good. You're welcome.

My notes. I started looking at my notes for issues, and

I realized I couldn't read them. Good qualification. Qualification.

I have access to a lot of people's notes. It helps. What's that page?

That's on here. Right? We jumped ahead conflicts with qualifications.

Oh, we skipped you. It was Got it. Yeah.

Do wanna add it in? I Oh, yeah.

If I remember correctly, we were and we were talking one of the qualifications. Maybe it was registered voter or something, and then I think it was brought up maybe that that's already a state requirement Uh-huh. To be approved. Correct. And I thought about any other qualifications. It was kinda just tossed out there, Citizens Academy or serving on a board, and I don't know. I didn't really have too much of an appetite.

Yeah. You really

I'd love for there to be a way to get a more to get the most but I but I also think I'm I'm probably being a little bit more influenced by the current that current thing that's going on now because Here or naturally? Yeah.

Good point. Yeah.

Here, probably mostly, but, yeah. You know, where I'm thinking but here are my thoughts, the thoughts of anybody in the city or the board of this board, but just man, I wish there was more decorum. I wish there was a little more professionalism. I wish there was but at the end of the day, I don't think I I can't think of a way to create that. I I think that Yeah. That just plays out.

And I don't think I'm not even sure legal people know that, but am I. Can we, in fact, establish criteria for eligibility that go beyond with the state or with the federal government? I mean, right now, there is no qualification to be president of The United States, other than the fact that you were a natural born citizen, you're over the age of, whatever, 40.

I think it's 35.

35. Okay. Well, we don't have worry about it, so. But that's it. You don't need a college diploma, you don't need any education at all, you don't need any public service, there's no requirement of any kind. So I don't know if we can even say Probably. Coconut Creek has a higher requirement as The United States does. I'd like to say we do, but you know my my politics coming out here. And

that's a very valid point, and and that is consistent with the case law that we've researched. There really are quite a lot of limits to what we can do as far as imposing qualifications that may be viewed as obstructions to running for office. We do already have a requirement that you must be a resident of the city for at least one year, and that has been upheld. That is in addition or different than maybe, you know, what is specifically required to be president or, you know, even at the state level. That has been upheld through several cases.

Two years has been, in some cases upheld, in other cases not upheld. I know that was something that was tossed around. We believe that we might be able to amend the language to say basically like that you're a continuous resident Not necessarily like a seasonal resident, you know to clarify that I'm sorry I think we say I think

we say continuous resident in the district Forget I apologize. No. We just changed 12/12. That was two years. Months. So

but otherwise, it just says primarily domicile for a minimum of twelve continuous months.

Does it say that?

It does say that under three zero one b. I guess I mean, that really pretty much does address that.

And domicile also means that you maintain your dress. Correct. At once, you could go off to California for seven months.

Well, I think really it means you have to be domiciled for six months in a day. But, yes, is anybody checking physically whether or not you're present at that address? Probably not. But I'm not really sure how we would draft that to ensure that either. So even if we put something in there, I'm not entirely sure how well it could be enforced.

I hate rules that are unenforceable.

Yes. So, I mean, then it would be kind of by appearance only. Beyond that, you know, we tossed around the idea of different types of education requirements, etcetera. I really don't know that that wouldn't be to be arbitrary and capricious, especially because at our higher levels of office, it's not a requirement, and there's really no case law that permits us to do that. So I think we may have, you know, what we are allowed to have there.

You know, as far as making somebody go through Citizens Academy, I think that may be something more that could be imposed as a requirement once they're elected. I don't think there would be an issue with that, but requiring it as a qualification for candidacy, I think, might be a problem. But

then you have to put that in as a way to as a reason for moving a commissioner if they're elected and then decide, I'm not going to Citizens Academy. If they don't do it by a certain time

Right.

Then they would be removed. So that becomes you've got to add that section.

True. And then there's the issue of what if for some reason we don't have Citizens Academy that year. Maybe it's not at the budget or maybe the staff person that heads it up, you know, retires or maybe, you know so you just get into logistical issues that come up. I do think the conflict language we were just discussing is okay, as mentioned earlier, and we will draft that. Again, we already have the one year primary domicile requirement. I don't know that there's really much more that we can require.

And then you did mention, pushers and lightning to me, once somebody is elected, there's a bevy of things at the county level or state level workshops or trainings they have to go through.

Correct. They have to undertake state ethics training, county ethics training, as well as Sanjing Wan public records training. And we also always throw in there some extra training as it relates to social media and discrimination and, you know, those kinds of things.

That's to protect the city. Correct. Right. I think that's certainly valid.

But they are required by state and county laws to have at least eight hours of that training once they're first elected. And then after the first year, it's four hours each year, essentially both at the county and state level, but it can be handled contemporaneously if the course covers both, which most will attend a course that covers both for obvious reasons.

And

it even has a requirement that there be at least two hours of that as public or basically half of each of the requirements requires public participation because they don't want all of the training to be online or somebody's just, you know, yep, I did it.

Item number two here, term limits. Is there a specific

I think we just talked about the cycle kind of resetting the term the turn limit, and I think it eventually be out there. But I think such a small, like I don't if small, but it's gonna be set anyway. I don't I don't think there's much to change here. Think it was just kind of a discussion item and a quirk with the reset.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't don't love the way it was done, but it's not I don't think there's I don't have any desire to to reopen that, I guess.

Of of the potential people who could exploit this, we've met all of them. And I don't think I don't think it's an issue.

Candidate conduct. Fort Lauderdale example. I don't remember the Fort Lauderdale example.

He just used the verbiage from the Fort Lauderdale city charter as as what what he would want.

Charter. Talk about things that are not approvable. Correct. Here's a $100 to vote for me, and when the person goes in the voting booth Right.

Right. Promise I'll approve your development. You can't prove

that that you gave the $100 and you can't prove that the person voted. Right. You can't prove either end of that.

Somebody actually came up with a nice day in some local election where they gave them a half $100 bill. If I won, I would give you the other half. Wow. Yeah. They went to jail by

the way. But

it was an original idea. Cost of three to five in Sing Sing, but it was an original idea.

So number number three guys, is there value?

What's the is the wording of state law any different or has the same effect?

It essentially has the same effect. I'm sure the wording is a little bit different, but it prohibits paying for votes. I don't have it in front of me right now if you wanted to bring it to you.

This may be a good one to wait until you next week when is here and and Sheila.

And was the emphasis there? Was it the requiring it to be a different auditor? They About the same auditor two terms in a row?

Or two audits Five years.

Yeah. Five years. Yeah. Mhmm.

Yeah. They changed it to three from three years to five years. I think and and the problem is there's so limited firms. The number of firms is limited, so they were having troubles sometimes finding them.

It wasn't that that could be a different person in the firm, in the same firm who had access to lead auditor. I thought we discussed that.

Right. Yeah.

Serious. Yeah.

A new lead auditor. Yeah. Okay.

Day. It's What the Ramadan, so fasting is coming the whole month of March. So I'll be available after, like, right around sunset. After that, I I will be available.

And that's the whole that's the whole month

of March. Well, I

think Yeah.

If we can get the room earlier, we're happy to meet earlier.

Yeah. I could do it to you.

I know we have

That's up to you all.

I think daylight savings kicks in first weekend in March anyway, so that might help. So you say after sundown, you're not available.

Well, few minutes before, I have to get

Well, yeah. So

Are you okay for Kippur. So you're okay for the next meeting on February 26, which is Wednesday at six. You're talking about March.