City Commission - Regular Meeting

All right, let's call this meeting to order. Um Jeremy, would you mind doing the pledge for us? Ice to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. We

have Pastor Keith Capey with Club Zion going to do the invocation. Let's pray. Father, we thank you and we bless you that we get the privilege to come to you to seek your wisdom, your direction, and your purpose for this city. Lord, I thank you for our commissioners, our city leaders, and all those who serve. Father, we thank you that you uh are the one we could ask to give them wisdom and discernment. Father, you've told us to do all things decently and in order. We pray for the prosperity of this city uh morally, financially, and uh relational. Lord, we thank you in Jesus name. Amen. Amen.

City clerk, roll call. Commissioner Jackson here. Commissioner Hutcherson here. Commissioner Tamalty here. Vice Mayor Williams here. Mayor Capzy here. Can I get someone to make a motion for the agenda? Move to approve the agenda as written. Second. Motion in a second. All in favor? I. Motion passes 5. Any public comments about items that are not on the agenda? All right. Staff. Oh,

Janice, come on down. Good evening, mayor, commissioners, city attorney, city clerk, and good evening to the new city manager who just um was promoted to his dream job. And I hope uh city manager, it turns out to be everything you ever hoped it would be. And also to the new chief of police, Chris, who was promoted. I don't know Chris very well, but I know he's been here a long time. So, um I'm glad that we have more people on the staff who've had many, many years here in Coco Beach. So, thank you.

Thank you. All right. Any other public comment? All right. Staff reports. Okay. Good evening, Mayor Commission. Thank you, Janice, for that those kind words. Uh, the city invites the public to the second vulnerability assessment public outreach meeting on February 10th, 6 p.m. in the commission room right here. This meeting will provide preliminary results of the assessment process, present maps and tables of assets that are at risk to flooding, and share solutions as well. On July 3rd, 2026, the city will be celebrating the America 250th from 5 to 9 here at city hall. Car's got a fun night scheduled for everybody. We're going to have Carnival Midway games on Minam Man Causeway and the community room is going to be a kid zone with arts and crafts as well. We're also going to have a live uh band on the stage and a drone show at 9:00. uh pool liner project is currently on track and slightly ahead of schedule. The Holiday Lane boat ramp is in fact open. Um bysentennial Park not yet. Uh sewer line repair on South Atlantic is completed and all lanes are open and the next repair is uh scheduled for the North Public's A1A starting next week. That'll be all. That's all I have.

Thank you. Um, see Mandra, the um, bsentennial that that's just due to permitting from a different agency. Yeah, we're just missing a couple seaweed buoys. Correct, Brad? Correct. We're missing two seaweed buoys that are purchased now and they're in route. We're just waiting on the delivery date and that's for permitting. Okay. All right. Thank you. Yes. All right. Um, city attorney. Um, nothing tonight. All right. City commission pass.

I'll see if you think so. Great job on the holiday lane. I know that I think it's a good case study and if we competitively bid things, my understanding is it came in basically 20% of competitive bids. So, um, it's a it's a it's a case study to showcase that we can get new suppliers that do quality work and on time. So kudos to Pelican Marine that did that.

I believe it was like 60,000 compared to uh 290 or something like that. So yeah, that was awesome and and they were quick about it. Um yeah, I just want to say uh thank you to Wes. We we went up to Tallahassee to try to get you guys some money for a fire station and for some gravity sewer lines. Um hopefully it went well. Basically it was just a you know hobnob event where we say thank you for everything and uh but uh it went well and uh Wes was was awesome. We had a long talk and uh honestly super stoked with him uh just this you know just this past couple weeks that we've been we've been working together um exceeded expectations uh immensely. So, thank you and uh I'm excited to work with you for a long time. Anyone else? All right. Uh let's see. Consent agenda.

Okay. This is the consent agenda. Item one, approve the January 15, 2026 city commission minutes. Staff representative, city clerk department recommendation approved. Item two, approve the March 3rd, 2026 town hall meeting at 6 PM. Staff representative, city clerk's office. Recommendation approve. Item three, approve the agreement of mutual aid in fire and emergency services between the Cocoa Beach Fire Department, Florida, and Space Launch Delta 45 Patrick Space Force Base, Florida. Staff representative Justin Grimes, Fire Chief. Recommendation approved. Item four, request to approve extension to the banking contract between Truis Bank and the city of Cocoa Beach for a period of five years expiring July 2031. Staff representative Hannah Juman. Um, finance director recommendation approve.

Move to approve the consent agenda as read. Second. Motion in a second. All in favor? I. Motion passes. 50. Number two. Oh, wait. New new business. Sorry. Okay. This is um item one of new business. Approve the proposal provided by P CPH Consulting LLC in the amount of $199,320 for engineering design and permitting of Ocean Beach Boulevard Park. This is a budgeted capital item. Staff Representative Bradzo, water reclamation public works director. Recommendation approve. Move to approve. Uh second.

Motion and second. Any public comment? Any commission comment? Um, this came in under budget, I believe, right? Didn't we didn't we approve? Yes. 30 300 initially? Yes. Okay. So, 100,000 under budget for this. All right. Uh, all in favor? I uh motion passes 50. Uh, number two.

Okay. Um item two, approve the proposal task order number seven provided by Kimy Horn in the amount of $87,584 for surveying engineering and conceptual design of Minutemen main minute shoreline erosion project phase 2. This is a budgeted capital item. Staff representative Bradzo, water reclamation public works director. Recommendation approved. Move to approve I2 is read.

Motion a second. Any public comment? Any commission comment? Uh, just real quick on this. I I did thinking trying to think ahead. Um, I did ask Brad if we could look into maybe doing some some docks there or at least some some cleats on the seaw walls if we're going to be doing seaw walls. um just on that one on the big the big canal side of Lutheran

on the north side and then on the other side of the Lutheran church for smaller boats. It would be nice to have uh a place where people could bring their boats in and walk into into town and use the uh the bars and restaurants and and all that. So, but the water on the north side is this deep. Yes, that's correct. It's shallow, but I said for smaller boats. So, but on the south side you could bring in bigger boats. So, just just a I mentioned it. Just letting you guys know. Uh any other public comment or or commission comment? I mean, okay. All in favor? I?

Motion passes. 50. Okay. Item three. Discuss changing the city seal by removing the jewel of the Space Coast and replacing it with the East Coast Surfing Capital. Staff Representative Keith Capezy, Mayor recommend recommended discuss and provide direction to the city attorney regarding the drafting of an ordinance related to the proposed change. Move to discuss. All right. Comments. Yeah. Go first.

So my hesitency is two things. I like the initiative. Um we can't take the word space out. I won't vote for it if if it if we don't reference the space coast. And I think we if we do change anything, let's plan on cutting it in going forward. Don't pay anything to retrofit anything that's just cut it in. So I think we definitely have to reference space work space up here. So I think it's

I'm not looking to spend any extra money. Uh but I do think that it is antiquated. I don't think it I don't think it describes what Cocoa Beach is as far as jewel of the sea or jewel of the space coast. I mean, uh, reminds me of the Titanic when I whenever I hear it. But, um, you know, the east, if you Google, uh, what is Cocoa Beach known for, it's either the small wave capital of the world or it's, uh, the east coast surfing capital. Uh, if you Google uh, what is what is uh, jewel of the space coast, Cocoa Beach is not referenced. Um, so I think if we have a seal, in my opinion, this is why why I was thinking about it was uh it should embody what what the city is known for, what um what what brings people to to the area. We we have uh Surfing Santa, which is probably the largest surfing event uh in the world. Now, um we also have Ron John's, which is the largest surf shop in the world. Uh we have Kelly Slater, which is the 11time world surfer. uh championing, which is arguably the best surfer that's ever lived. So, uh to me, it just makes sense for us to to do something where uh it speaks to what Cocoa Beach is. Uh jewel jewel of the Space Coast could be anything. So, that was just my my thought behind it. So, um, my take on it is yes, we we I surf, you surf, you know, a lot of people surf, but the surfing facet to Cocoa Beach is probably 5 to 10% of the draw at the most. Um, we are in the middle of the Space Coast.

We're currently the jewel of the Space Coast. If you go out to the country club and you look at the logo that's on the sign entering the country club from back in the day, the logo was Missile Land USA. So they changed it from Missile Land USA to jewel of Space Coast. And the thing about a jewel is it's multifaceted. It's not just one thing. You got space, you got surfing, you got the businesses, you got the beach, you got the river, you got boating, you got kite surfing, you got restaurants, you got bars, you got an excellent city staff as part of those facets. You gota have safe community is one of those facets. So if you think deeper into what a jewel is and the jewel of the space coast is we basically are the jewel. We bring in you know the vast majority of the TDC dollars and we bring in a big majority of the property value money that goes to the that goes to the county. So I believe we should uh not change it and [clears throat] we should leave it the jewel of the space coast for those reasons. So when I did a Google search I think I told you that already but yeah so I Google searched what is Cocoa Beach known for and and that's what it was known for. Jewel Juel never came up in any of that. And when you look for Jewel what what does it have to do with Cocoa Beach? It doesn't show up. Um, I did do a I did do a a survey online and it was uh 10 to one uh everybody wanted East

Coast Surfing Capital. Uh that was out of out ofund out of 110 people surveyed, 100 wanted East Coast Surfing Capital and 10 people said keep it Jewel. I will note out of out of two of those people that said jewel, one sells uh crystals and other one sells uh jewelry. [laughter] So, uh I'm just putting that out there. Uh any other commission comment on Well, I'd say from a statistical standpoint, your survey was not farreaching enough and the data wasn't you you just gave your your synopsis of the analysis of the data that that's not a bonafide survey. I mean, if you want to put it on the ballot, I'll support putting it on the ballot to make the change. And I'll bet you uh breakfast, lunch, and dinner on any day you choose that it won't pass.

I I would be fine with putting on the ballot, too, but I I'll take your bet and I'll raise you a thousand. [laughter] Um any any uh public comment will

Yeah, I I tend to agree. I think it's critical. I think so many of our of our residents are involved in space and our history from a from a Cocoa Beach perspective. Space is is a centerpiece. um even for the nation, right? Um but I agree with you. I think surfing is it's it's in it's in our DNA. Um even for folks that don't surf like that this is a this is a super cool surf town and that's part of the vibe that we love about it. So I I I resonate with both. I would offer less focused on the on the the tagline that we replace the shuttle as as slightly now antiquated symbol with something more uh future looking and recognition in recognition of the types of vehicles that we have going now. So this is less on the the verbiage more on the icon itself. Um I provided a couple exemplars. I don't think any of mine need to necessarily be adopted, but um that would be for my put that would be a key update.

That would be a follow on after this. Yeah. Do you have any input?

You know, I I do. I've been thinking about it. It's like um [clears throat] Cocoa Beach um came from nothing to what it is and where you know we all live now because of the space program, not because of surfing. Surfing wasn't an I say an afterthought. It was it's here. It's always been here. The surf's always been here. Uh but you know the the populace came because of the space program in the 50s and 60s and we actually had to build out our city. All of the canals were man-made. They were they were developed to bring more people in so we could so we could fit more people into Cocoa Beach. Um so I agree with you Jeremy with with Space Coast. It's got to be it's got to be in there. It's it's going to be forever. It's it's actually getting even more popular. We've had more launches in the last five years than we had in the previous 50 years. So, um, and it and that's only going to get grow. Um, with Starship coming aboard where, you know, they're they're suggesting to launch multiple times a day. Um, that's going to be uh interesting. Um,

it's a word. Yeah, it's a word. Uh, very well. Yeah. Well, it's unique to anywhere in the world, right? Actually, um, so I mean, there's only been two places where humans have gone out here in Russia. Well, I agree with you, but it's not here. It's Kenny Kennedy Space Center. Well, or Cape Canaveral. People that did it. They should be the jewel of the space coast if you want to say that way. I agree. And and it's technically not even Cape Canaveral, but the people who are involved. And then I think this is to Commissioner Tumulti's point. Folks, the people the residents of Cocoa Beach came here as residents because of the space program. And I think that's the I think that's the point. Yeah, that that was my point.

It sounds like I don't really have any consensus on. Well, I agree. I agree with But I want to do I do want to hear public comments. I say one more thing, Judge. I agree with you with the with the emblem or design we have. It's somewhat antiquated and and that could be kind of spruced up. Um, and again what Jeremy said, hey, we don't and and you did too as well, uh, um, Mr. Mayor, that we don't want to spend any money. So, if we do change the logo, we've got logos all over the city. Yeah. Basically, and I would suggest that we if we if we do this, if it does go forward, that we only change it out when those signs become

Yeah. antiquated or rusty or hey, they got to be changed out anyway because they're they're falling down and and at that point change them out. So, it really doesn't cost much of anything to to do that. Um we could Joel the mayor and put a surfer there instead of the shuttle, you know. Do we you know, is that something we do? Do we offer to the schools and say, "Hey, let's have a contest and and you know, create a a new city emblem." I don't know. That just makes me want to throw it out there. [laughter] Yeah, like the sidewalk. Like the sidewalk. Yeah, they got taken away. Well, we have control over that though. I don't

I appreciate you bringing it forward because I think it it is an un, you know, an overlooked item. I think you can leverage the branding, but I me personally, we can't delete reference to space. I don't know how it gets weaved in there, but I won't vote for anything that doesn't reference space.

Uh, any public comment on this? Yeah, go ahead. Rick Anderson, 1800 Minutemen Causeway. Um, I absolutely agree that space has to be involved. I mean, I I grew up following the space program from 1500 miles away and I was I was just in awe of of what was going on around here and and and of Cocoa Beach and and it's synonymous with the space program. And I I I think if anything, we need to embrace that more. Um, there there are no signs of the space program anywhere around here. No streets named after astronauts, no capsules. It It's almost like we've forgotten that history. And And I think it's more important even going forward to embrace that history because Bvard County is changing. We're becoming one of the engineering capitals of the country, if not the world. There there there is talk that Bvard County be could become the next Silicon Valley. Um and that's the amount of technology that's that's growing into this area. And I I I think I I think that branding ourselves as the surfing capital in the middle of all this technology and everything else is is is just not a good image for the city. Um I'm not saying that surfing is not important. It is. Um but I but I absolutely think that we have to em embrace ourselves as as the center of not only the space corp program but of technology. Thank you. any Oh, Janice.

I love this subject. Spending money. I also Google and um it said changing the city logo is anywhere from $260,000 to a million dollars. Number one, we're going to roll back the taxes next year. Remember that was a promise to the tax.

We just said phase it in. We didn't say spend money on new stuff. So, um, also about Googling and reading AI, Ron Jimena branded and I I'm picking on the branding thing that was that I read that the mayor wanted to change the brand. Well, Ron Johns did it. I heard you complain all last year and maybe the year before about all those signs from Daytona to Cocoa Beach that Ron John's put up. Go to Cocoa Beach and surf. So, um, we we've already been branded in that regard. As far as the space center, um, when you Google or read AI, it says famous people who live in Cocoa Beach. Well, of course, Kelly Slater. Does he actually live here now? No. But I know he's from here and spent a lot of his childhood and his teen years on Fourth Street North. But it also said that Buzz Aldrin lives here. Buzz never lived in Cocoa Beach. He a satellite beach resident. Um Hulk Hogan, an acquaintance of mine, late acquaintance of mine. Um he never lived in Cocoa Beach either. So,

but he was a bouncer at the anchor club. Well, all right. I met him personally. Oh, really? Oh, okay. I dated his girlfriend. But he but he had [laughter] that that was a very risky thing to do to date his I got to meet him face to face. Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, he was quite a character and um now he's the late Hulk Hogan from the former canal zone, Panama Canal Zone. That's how I know of him. So, um

the history of the logo is a resident artist um designed that logo and I think it's beautiful. I love it. There was a very subtle change around 1990 uh 2000 actually it was between 95 and 2000 to change it from the rocket to the shuttle and I know who did that and nobody noticed that that had happened but if you change the wording I really do think that if you got got off of an airline somewhere you came here and you took a poll contrary to the Google poll and you said well what do you know about where you're going are you going to Cocoa Beach? Yeah, I'm going to Cocoa Beach, but I'm really here to go to the Space Center. So, at the least you would have to change that. I love Jewel of the Space Coast, but because it puts us number one, but make it something like Space and Surf. Thank you.

Thank you, Janice. Any other further comments? All right. Well, that concludes the comments and so just to clean up a motion for Mr. Tumult, Commissioner Tumult, a motion to discuss, I'm going to make a motion to deny the name change as stated from uh the jewel of the Space Coast to East Coast Surfing Capital at this moment. Okay. Second motion and a second to deny. You made a You made a negative motion to deny nothing. Well, let's just do it. [laughter] Negative motions are very confusing. I tried, but

All right. So, we got a we got [clears throat] a a motion to deny a name change at this point. Uh, all all in favor? I I All right, [clears throat] let's see. I'll get it right sometime, Tim. I know. It's Where am I at? Very confusing. We're at item four. Number four. Okay. discuss and provide direction for staff regarding the 2026 Cocoa Beach Air Show, including a request for inind sponsorship and preliminary direction for the 2027 Cocoa Beach Air Show. This is an unbudgeted item. Staff representative Wes Mullen, city manager, recommendation, provide direction.

Move to discuss I4 is read. [clears throat] Motion, a second to discuss. What What kind of money are they talking about and what kind of inind [clears throat] sponsorship? I guess it's in my papers. I should look a little closer. We've got a representative here, Commissioner. Okay. Yeah, come on down.

Thank you, Mayor and Commissioners West and Terry for getting this on the agenda. My name is uh James Tuller. I'm with the Air Show U and representing Air Dot Show Coco Beach. Uh April 11th and 12th, 2026. Cocoa Beach feature in the Navy Blue Angels. Maybe I could get this to flip. Is it gonna flip?

It's not flipping. There it goes. Residents can watch uh signature event for the community. Residents can watch for free from each boats, balconies, and backyards. It's a patriotic and inspiring event for local residents of Cocoa Beach. It will be the signature event to commemorate America's 250th. creates uh s significant economic impacts for hotels and local businesses. It is the largest event of the year in Bvard County. We uh put a placer ID graph on there for last year. Obviously with the Blue Angels, they they tend to draw about 30% more than a standard uh single ship air show. So that is uh to look at as well in the 2026 uh air. Oops, we'll go the other way. Our aerial uh football field spans over two miles from Sheper Park to Minman Causeway in front of almost every Cocoa Beach hotel. Week of schedule, Wednesday, the Blue Angels Wednesday, April 8th, the Blue Angels will come here. They are staying at Patrick Space Force Base. Um so they will start flying on Wednesday, Thursday. Friday they will do a dress rehearsal. Saturday, the only really affect with the with the park will be 8 am. The park uh parking opens 9:00 am gates open 12 o'clock flying starts 3:00 flying done 4:00 gates closed 6 p.m. normal traffic. This will be Saturday and Sunday. Monday site dismantle aircraft uh departures. What we're asking for from the city is uh providing kind support for police, fire, and public works for all areas outside of the event site, Lori Wilson Park. Use of Sydney Fischer Park as an event parking lot for volunteers, vendors, and ticketed guests, and use of park areas to advertise event in weeks prior to the show. My contact is on here if anybody wants to take it down. I'm a local resident satellite beach and again, thank you for the opportunity to talk. But um

back up one. I just asked Okay, just go back one. Just ask the city manager to to you know, we might have to might not be able to decide tonight unless we already have numbers of what that inind support for police, fire, and public works for all areas outside the event site would would cost the city. We have an approximation of about 30,000. That is correct. Okay. Yeah, that's from past events. So, it's relative. Well, it's actually a little bit lower than past events, but we're adding for the inflation from last year. So, it's about 30,000 commissioner.

Okay. So, so um unlike previous years when Brian Lily came up here and asked us for 50,000 plus inind support, this would be quite a reduction and therefore I I will support it for the uh not not to exceed $30,000 worth of city expenses. I got a comment. So, bullet item number one is 30,000. Is that correct? That's provide in kind support for police, fire, public works, and outside event sites. That is correct. I would just

So, so bullet number two is is uh the park and that parking lot which we would normally rent out if we rented it out. There'd be a a charge for that for a weekend and use of the uh park areas is advertising. That's not that's not a big expense. Um so there's an additional amount there. I agree with you, Skip. Um, you know, if if this is all that it costs the city is the inind support and the use of uh Fiser Park and that's it, we're good. But don't come to us next week or next month or the week before the event and say, "Oh, we need $100,000." Yes, sir. Understand?

Or we're not going to have the event. Um, that's just not going to work at all. And so I'm with you. It's happened. Yeah. Yes, sir. Sydney Fisher Park. Yes, sir. I know. And everybody that lives in the city knows that if there's 20% parking capacity in that park, it's a busy day. Yeah. Yeah. So, there's not a big loss for for them being able to use that parking lot. Okay. Uh, city manager. If you have a parking permit, you can park there for free. Oh, now you knew that.

Sydney Fiser. Oh, yeah. Fisher. Yeah. Um, where when when is the next air show schedule? How how far away from this one? So, we have one scheduled for in 2027. Correct. Also, the correct the date on that one, but there Yeah, it would be 2027. You got it. Okay. April April 17 and 18, 2027. We also have the Thunderbirds uh tenatively tentatively scheduled here and that's why we added in this agenda item to discuss if we want to put that in the budget for next year as well. I think we do it one year at a time.

Um I mean I'm not saying when you say preliminary direction I say preliminary. Yeah, let's I' I'd approve but we haven't seen the details of what they're going to ask for yet. I think just for budgeting purposes because this one's unbudgeted. We just wanted to see if we should add it in the budget for next year. Commissioner this year's rate

I think there's a lot of money for for an unbudgeted item for the for the residents. I think this is something that uh I honestly I think what what do we usually do for incind? We usually cap it around five five grand. Uh I don't have that answer for you right now. I mean, that's that's in the code, but you know, I don't know that that's been followed to the tea on that.

I mean, I I love the air show and and it brings a lot a lot of business in and and honestly, I I mean, I'd love to to to give you, you know, the world if we could afford it, but um I just feel like it's a lot for an unbudgeted item. I would I would be okay with it if we could cap it at five grand uh for inkind, but uh definitely the use of the park, you know, that doesn't cost us anything. um you know, whatever you whatever else you need. That's that's just the way I feel. Is this um nonprofit or not for profofit or is this uh

so so when we Yes. So So yes, the air dot show tour and and Be Lily Productions it is a there is a nonprofit that obviously that we utilize for for the we have STEM events on Friday and stuff like that. There is that element to it, but it's forprofit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We don't want Yeah. Not Yes. Let's just Let's just Let's just be honest here. Yes, sir. Okay. So, if if this is a forprofit,

that's that's a little bit different than a lot of the ininds that we do that are events that are being [clears throat] held to the benefit of the city and for nonprofit. And you're trying to lighten the load on the nonprofit. When when you say when you say for profit, that just means generate the discussion that this person

and [clears throat] a whole bunch of other people that are pouring a whole bunch of hours into making this happen and making it run smoothly are getting paid from the proceeds that are coming in for this event. So, it's basically a wash. It's not like they're getting he's he's spending, you know, $25,000 worth of his time and he's going to rake in $75,000.

No, what I'm saying is there's a legal distinction between a a for-profit business and a nonprofit. And and it's totally appropriate for a nonprofit to take salary and payment out. And and I'm not a lawyer, nor do I claim to be one. Um, but I there's an important distinction between a for-profit business that is leveraging inind and municipal funds versus a not for-p profofit. And and and I don't think that that means that because something's for profit, we shouldn't support it. We just I I think it's an important distinction we need to be aware of. It just it's there's a a lot more, you know, hoops and jumps you got to go through if you're a nonprofit. If you're going to pay your people, I don't think it's our responsibility to determine how much money they make, whether it's a profit or nonprofit. From my perspective, the air show is a fantastic event for Cocoa Beach. It brings I don't know how many, 50 to 75,000 people here that weekend. Uh the businesses are thriving. They they I wouldn't guess there's one business that wouldn't want it here. There's if if there is one name it skip, you know, I don't I don't think there is.

No, I agree. I agree with you. So, um I would read as you said earlier if if this is what it cost us um is our inind um cost of 30ish 35,000. Um that's nothing in the grand scheme of things of what it's going to generate for the city. Um just positive everywhere. And I just that's my that's my position on it.

Mayor, I I agree. We shouldn't we need to host the week on a I look at it like this. We have a $50 million general fund. If we can't find 30 grand to fund it, and that's coming from the budget hawk that depicts everything. So, um I think it's tremendous for the area. I'm a huge supporter of it. I agree with your sentiment that we need to get tighter on budgeting things. We know these are coming. I don't like the fact that's unbudgeted, but I don't think we can not host this.

And I just say that the all those businesses, you know, that are going to be supported from this, it's if this event is what puts them in the black for the year and they don't end up closing down and then that they're not paying rent and then the value of the business goes down, you know, that cuts down on the the property value which cuts down on the tax base. there's a ripple effect if you know when we have businesses that go out of business. So I'm going to I'm I know we're going to have public comment but just to clarify this motion. The original one was to discuss. I'm going to move to approve direction for staff regard regarding the 2026 Cocoa Beach art show for the inind sponsorship.

I think we're going early on the art show or we do the art show. I'm talking about the air show. The air show. Art show. Oh, I'm sorry. I I transposed a couple of letters there. [laughter] Oak Beach Air Show, including the request for inind sponsorship and the use of uh the park, Sydney Fischer Park, and the city costs not to not to exceed $30,000 and also to give preliminary direction for the 2027 Cocoa Beach Art Air Show to budget uh not to exceed $35,000. and for next year.

Can I add one thing, Commissioner, please? Uh, what days do they need Fiser? I I want to make sure that we're sure of that, too. Is it just the days of the show or what days? So, basically, just a Saturday, Sunday. Yes, sir. Did I get a second before you started? Sorry about that, Commissioner. Okay. Okay. I apologize. Yeah. I just want to make sure we had the days. Okay. Yeah, I think that's critical. Okay. Um, let's get some public comment if you don't mind. [clears throat] Oh, it's Sure. Come on, Janice. Yeah, you could stay close just in case.

Janice Scott, Cocoa Beach. Um, I have a couple of questions. One of them has to do with how many class A events are we going to have every year? Also, I thought that we were only going to have the air show every other year, didn't we have it last year or now we're going to have it the 20 2026 and 2027? Um, the other thing I just kind of look, I like the air show, but year after year it's too much. Dogs run for cover. The cats run for cover. You can't find them for 10 days. Um, the jets come over my house pretty low. It's pretty loud. Um, I could leave town. I mean, it's not a problem for those couple of days, but when you keep saying, um, Commissioner Tamulti, oh, the business people love it. I'm sure they do. But couldn't you ever say something here? Not just you personally, I'm not picking on you, but just oh about the residents. Now, when this Weston Hotel opens, isn't it going to open before the 2027 air show? You're going to be walking from Country Club to go down to Fiser Park because it's going to be the traffic's going to be horrendous. Any Class A events after that hotel opens, you might as well get your scooter out. Um, so also, um, I think it's important and, uh, Commissioner Jackson, you did bring up a good point about the distinction between for-profit and not forprofit. So, I've been reading a lot about that lately because I'm involved in a couple of things as you may imagine. And, um, you cannot if a not for profit, like for example in Cocoa Beach, they are not taxed. They're completely taxexempt. You cannot you they register with the city from what I understand or the municipality. You cannot charge them a fee for police and fire uh services and on and on. There are several important distinctions

that should be clarified about that. Um a not for-p profofit business they do collect pretty high salaries. I know some of them around Vard made 1.6 2.8 million a year salary. So they're not, you know, people out there doing charitable work, but on the other hand, uh, how they take care of running their business is one thing or not, but I do think it's, um, only fair that the residents know, are they forprofit or not for profit. Thank you. Thank you, Janice. Any other public comment? Cool.

Rick Anderson, Cocoa Beach. I think that if it's capped at inind um services at at $30,000, I I think it's a bargain. But I but I would be aware of as I forget who pointed out that coming to you a month or a week beforehand and and wanting more money. Um hopefully if we consider now putting the 2027 air show in the budget, that may be an incentive for the uh producers of the air show to not do that. Um but if if if it is only 30 to $35,000 of inind, I I'm completely in favor of it. Question for what would can you elaborate on that? Did they come back and we kind of held us hostage to host the event and said, "Hey, you got it." Yeah.

Cancelled and they canceled because of that. Yeah. I I wasn't on the commission then. No, but good point is it's not our It was a It was like 100 grand. Got it. They went to That's when they went to Melbourne. Yeah. Yeah. It's much better here on the beach. Of course. Yeah. John Deville and Cocoa Beach. Folks, I've got a way you can make money on this deal if you think about it. This gentleman, put your map back on there for me again. What's that? Show me a map up there again. Yes, sir. Can Hold on. I can't. You wanted the uh the sight line map? Yeah. Right. Too important tool. It's too small to see in a far distance for old folks like me. That that's what you wanted. I can't really see where they went on the left hand side exactly where that is. Sher Park. So if you look over kind of on the left, right.

Yeah. It used to be up to the pier right on my street. The last few times it's been right where it is now. Right. You look back on my street in the north of that, those parking lots are not full. Move it up back toward the pier like it used to be. Get the city parking in the streets, collect that money. I guarantee it'll be more than that $30,000 will counter fit with that to balance it out. So the city can make profit out of that to take care of 30 that you donate to it. Think about that. Move it back up to the pier like it used to be. You got more people using the side streets to pay their parking, right? you got your money coming in from that? Pretty easy to do that.

Thank you. Uh any other public comment? All right. So, um I think I think you've got a consensus here that you're probably going to get what you want. Um, and since my vote is not going to impact anything, I I am still going to vote no just because uh I it's not budgeted and I I I love the event. I totally support it and I'm going to be there. If you whatever you need, you let me know. I'm going to make sure I can help you out. Uh but just kind of out of principle, I'm I'm not going to vote on this one because I know it's not going to affect you. Uh okay, every all in favor.

I I oppose. Nay. All right. Motion passes uh 41. All right. Okay. Item five, adopt ordinance 1711 on first reading, an ordinance of the city of Koka Beach, Florida, regulating temporary signs, amending section 5-04, prohibited signs to revise some types allowed to be displayed in public rights of way, providing findings, providing for conflicts, codification, and an effective date. Staff Representative David Dicki, Development Services, recommendation to adopt on first rating. Move to adopt I5 as read. Second.

All right, we got a motion in a second. Uh, any public comment?

Olivia Cape, baby. Um, hi. I'm Olivia Capisi. Um, and this seems pretty harsh over here, pretty restricted. Uh, some of the stuff are am I'm going to be concerned about is this 4T from here to here? Are they going to be finding me? That's one of my concerns because this is an extra large. Um, and then uh the 25 ft from the intersection. I mean, putting aside 25 ft from the intersection, I mean, it's not in the intersection. That's I mean, it's kind of half the way the block over there. It's not going I mean, it's not going to even help me at all. Um, the other concern that I have about here, three signs, poor event. Three signs sometime. I mean, believe me, it's my least favorite thing to put designs. It's like I hate putting designs, but I have to. Three signs are not going to make it. Sometimes I have to put eight to 10 in order to make it to the place. So, three signs is not even uh is not even going to work. Um so and and then the other concern I have over here is one sign one for each travel direction. What is that? That means that I only can put one going this way but in the other corner further away I cannot put it that way. So it's just very restricted in my opinion.

That's it. All right. The current sign you have in your hand? Yeah. Per the current code is illegal. I don't know. Yes. Um Dave Dicki can tell you that it is and incite the current ordinance because the signs have to have you can have open house on it, but you have to have the name of your reality firm on the sign. So that sign is illegal. Okay. The currently real quick, is that true, Dave? Do you know? And is that something that [snorts]

you want to just move aside? You can you can come back here. Good evening. Um, city code enforcement staff really doesn't look at the content or the message of a of a temporary sign. We're frankly forbidden to do that. We have to regulate um by size, location, that type of thing. So, it can say pretty much whatever it wants to say on that sign. Uh, we don't really regulate it by by message and content. real quick. Uh I believe it the code said four square feet. Was that the Was that the the limit size

per Yeah. Is is that might be 4.1 or 4.2? Is that is that going to be an issue? You know, we have our officers have discretion and they are not out looking to cause problems um or to sight people. So, um, if it's 4.1 ft, I don't imagine our officers are going to be pulling those signs.

Okay. And then real quick, ma'am, to your, uh, question or your, uh, so 25 ft from a from an intersection basically is from that wall to this desk right here. Are you're saying that that's that's not uh that's that's too far away? [clears throat] Yes, sir. That was brutal. Did you not have a discussion about that? No, we No, we didn't. She She She is She is just a resident to me right now. Right now. [laughter] Wow. Um, brutal. Homestead. Sorry.

And And what do you think is an acceptable amount of signs to be put out that's not going to be overburdened for the residents? I mean, to be honest, without being ridiculous. Yours invites the three. Yeah. Yeah. versus a tree. I mean, I'm 5 feet. So, I mean, I'm not good with math over here, but that's 25 ft. It wasn't from here to there. No, it's it's from here to there. That's about 25 ft. So, four, five. So, four feet. So, what I'm thinking is you're going down A1A and you want people to turn at 4 Street South.

Yeah. You want that sign at least 25 ft before the turn because if you put it right out the intersection, by the time people get to it, they're already passed it. So, I would think you'd want it at least [clears throat] 25 ft before the intersection. I don't know any realtor that do that or other people.

And one one other question. I know we're I know we're uh I'm giving you a little liberty because of who you are. Um how how many signs would you like to see? What do you think is realistic? realistic is between 8 to 10 to the point to the house. No poor intersection. It's just that there is some houses that are further in. Let's just uh towards the end of minimum to like those houses. You're saying if there's like four streets to get to where you need to go. If there is only four streets to get to if I only can put two, I will put two to get to the point. Uh, but so that see three is not is ridiculous.

Okay. Well, I'm just saying I've seen the signs and it actually says the address. So, you see openhouse, you see the name of the realer and you see the address. So, it points that way and now I got the address. So, real quick, number of signs in the distance are the two your two concerns. Okay, you can sit down. Thank you. Um, Jane Veester. Yeah, we've got another. Yeah, Jane, let let me hear from you.

Jane Vester, Cocoa Beach. Uh, yes, those same concerns. 25 ft like you said, that's okay. Turning in. uh five foot setback kind of concerns me a little bit. You know, according to this, there's also a 5-ft setback from the pavement when when applicable. Okay. So, when applicable. Okay. Very good.

Um time limit is only Saturday and Sunday from 10 to 4. So, no signage, no open houses during the week. Um we do broker open houses also. A lot of times those are in the later afternoon after the brokers are done. You do those a lot of times 4 to 6. Um so no signage. So I guess no again no open houses during the week. I don't know. It's hard to is that how everyone does their business? No. you know. Um and then again the maximum number of signs just an example would be um four street four street um south. Um so I put one on Atlantic Orlando Boulevard and I'm on Yacht Haven. So I'm done though. That's my three signs. So where do they go from once they drive down from Bard? How do they get to where the um the open house is? So, just a couple more signs, even six even.

And real quick, too, since since I gave her some liberty, um he wants to ask you some questions as well. So, as a realtor, do you expect these signs to generate um just, hey, oh, there's an open house sign. I'm going to go to that open house. They do. I mean, is that is okay. And I asked at my open house. [clears throat]

So my point in that is because you know your bro when you have a broker open the brokers are coming there because you send them an email and you they have GPS and they know exactly where to go. Um yeah I get it for for folks. Hey you're going to have folks that just oh I want to see that house. You know they or their neighbors and they oh yeah let's go in that house and check it out. Um they're not there to buy it, but they're you never know. Uh but that was interesting. So I I've seen a lot of signs, but I've never just like, "Oh, I'm just going to go to that open house and check it out." But I mean, I guess that happens.

If you're in the market for a house, you definitely want I guess you would, but but you would also, if you're in the market for a house, wouldn't you be online checking that on your phone? Exactly. And you're advertising it out there. And when you do that, oh, there's an open house on Cedar, uh, you know, whatever address on Cedar and oh, I know where, well, I know where that is. I can throw my GPS. I don't live in Goa Beach, but I'm going to go there. I mean, to me, it's hey, you just need a couple signs. It's almost like putting a balloon on your mailbox saying, "Hey, the party's over here." That's illegal, right?

It's illegal. I know that's a that's a federal offense, right? I understand that, but but it happens. Um, but that's my point is just, hey, it's at that location. Oh, when you go buy it, oh, there it is. Almost only need a sign in that yard almost. You know, I would think nowadays with the amount of people that use the internet and social media and how big Space Coast area realers are that they could have a link on the top of their web page that said open houses. And when people went on to your web page, they click open houses and it would tell them this one and this one and this one and this one and this one on these days and here are the addresses. And you get more traffic from that than people driving around that are going to the store or somewhere else and seeing a sign and saying, "Oh, I think about maybe I might buy a house today." You know, you know, people that are in the market for a house that want to go look at houses either they see the sign by and they drive up and down my street day in and day out looking for a real leader sign so they can take a picture of it so they can call a realer so they can make an appointment to look at the house. So,

and I'm sorry I'm cutting [clears throat] you off, Skip, but um this isn't about us telling y'all how to do your business.

So, you know, I apologize for that. What it is, our business is to reduce the clutter on the streets in Cocoa Beach. And that's what we're doing with this ordinance is reducing the clutter. And it's not just the open house signs. It's the pressure washing signs. It's the all the other little signs that all of a sudden pop up all over the city that we don't that that this ordinance would be able to hey, we can just pick those up and and take them and not throw them away. You know, we're going to put them somewhere, right? I believe so. That's the plan going forward. So that's the idea of this is is to reduce the clutter, not to tell you how to do your business, which sometimes we go off on tangents and do and apologize for that. Um, but that's my perspective. Thanks.

We don't leave our signs out. They're out for a big difference amount of time. I I understand that. I agree with that. Can I answer Can I answer the um I do have to say last weekend I did an open house and I asked my people, "How do you hear?" Um, I had actually two people come to my open house because it was so cold last weekend. Both of them came in on the sign and one of them is coming back again this weekend because they had their younger child and their dog. They were out walking and actually came in on the the sign. So, it does they they do work. There are people actually out biking the weekend before had some people that are out biking saw the sign come in. So,

uh, appreciate that and I am going to comment on some of this after I hear everybody, but, uh, I have personal information that I understand what you're talking about. Um, any other public comment? Yes.

Ricky Anderson, Cocoa Beach. I'm just wondering how much clam it seems that this all was triggered by a little bit of maybe overzealous code enforcement pulling up signs and I'm just wondering how much clamoring there was with regard to real estate signs and I agree about the pressure washing signs. I'm wondering if lumping all signs into one category is a smart idea or maybe we should maybe m maybe maybe we should take a like a step back and may maybe another moratorum or grace period until maybe we can sort out the different various kinds of signs and maybe maybe um you know maybe get a little more the public input in that because I'm just wondering how much clamoring for change there was among the public when it came to real estate open house signs. Now, yes, I've seen them where they've lined the street and there have been 20 or 30 of them that and that's crazy. But, uh, again, I can see the the realtor's point of view that if something's at the end of Minutemen Causeway, a sign on A1A and somebody's going to drive a half a mile down Minutemen Causeway and it could be a mile and a half down there. So, it just seems like maybe a little more flexibility, may maybe another grace period until the until the proposed ordinance is thought out a little bit better. Can

I comment? Thank you. Um, let let me just see. Okay, go ahead. Comment later, right? You're going to have discuss. Yes. Yes. So, the motion was to approve. Is that correct? Yes.

Okay. So, I'd like to make an amendment and hoping for a second in section 5.04. 104. Uh item or sub paragraph Q E the maximum number uh the maximum number currently is three signs and I would like to revise that per my amendment to five signs. I'll look for a second that and no change to the setback 25 ft. No change anything. I'll second that

the amendment. Okay. Uh, we got a motion in a second for that. Uh, Dave, real quick, um, while I've got it in my head, uh, is there is there a particular reason for the 25 foot? Uh, do you have a like So, there's a reasoning behind it.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what we refer to as the visibility triangle. Those are the dimensions of the visibility triangle. And that's really about public safety. It's about keeping because when you start cluttering up that area in that area of the intersection, you get cars and pedestrians and bikes that are um that that it's it's just a visibility issue. You start having signs in that area and cars are coming into it and you have pedestrians and bicycles through it. Excuse me. it just becomes a little busy and any busyiness with cars versus bikes and pedestrians can end up not a good thing. So, it's just it's about public safety.

Okay. And then, uh, city attorney, uh, can you explain why we can't single out certain signs? Yes. Um I really wish we could but the US Supreme Court probably about 20 years ago um deemed essentially that if you have to the words on the sign to determine if it's legal or not legal then that is a first amendment violation.

Okay. And and just I'll put my two cents in here. um having uh having lived with a a realer and seeing what she goes through and helping her. Um number six in all of Cocoa Beach, by the way, shameless plug. Um she's uh she's right. The the signs absolutely do work. A lot of times these open houses are just spur of the moment. They might be looking, but they don't look on realtor website. They don't necessarily There's a lot of people that come down on vacation and they're like, "Oh, wow. I They never really even thought about living here, but on vacation, they're like, "This place is so awesome. Hey, open house. Go look at it." There there's a lot of people. I'd say probably 80% of all their traffic is from those signs. Um, so I do understand how important they are. Skip, in my head, I was thinking in my head, my number of that was acceptable signs was was probably around five. So, I I do agree with you there. I do understand that she she may need more, but we're trying to keep the clutter down, and I think that's a good compromise. You know, kind of meet in the middle there. Um, I

have a question for you. When you're done. Yeah, I'm done. Go ahead. So, Dave, just real quick, the way I'm reading these red lines is we're adding a height requirement, a setback requirement, and a maximum number. Are any of those more restrictive than typical with other I mean this is not a tailored cocoa beach specific rule that's way more restrictive than standard actually um the regs that were we we we went out and and pilferred some from Bard County um that's that's what that's what we we're started from. So but no those are not overly restrictive. Those those are typical typical for what you would find in local governments.

And real quick, Dave, while you're up there, um yeah, uh so, uh Jane had had mentioned that, you know, what if she wants to do an open house on a on a different day than Saturday or Sunday? Uh would it make sense to to maybe on the off days to just have basically I don't want to say a permit but a a sign in uh just so the city like maybe they can get an exception for those days where they where they [clears throat] that way the city knows that hey they're doing an open house and they want to have this sign here for these hours. Is that something that makes sense?

Well, I've got two quick comments on that. Uh the first would be it's and again it's not about real estate signs. it's about all signs. And so if we open that

option up for real estate signs, we're going to have to open them up for all signs. So just kind of keep that in mind. It may not just be our our real estate folks who are taking advantage of that. Um and the other thing is that as the enforcement side of this, it's I I like I I'd like preferably I prefer to keep it straight and simple and easy. That's why we came up with that regulation Saturday and Sunday between 10:00 and 4. That's simple and that's easy for our code enforcement officers to go out and and enforce that. When you start when you start adding things to that, it becomes more of an administrative process and it it requires more staff time. I'm and I know we're staff is here to help the residents and help in this case realtors and folks who want temporary signs, but it just it just adds adds complications to the process. So, but whatever the commission would like to do, we will we will happily do it. Dave, in terms of your uh the selection on number of signs, was there a was there a logic behind or was it was it just kind of a

it wasn't? It was what the county was using. Okay. And we thought it, you know, the county is so much larger and you would think that the real estate the signs would would they wouldn't need as many signs. So, um, you know, we thought that would be a good, but I I I can see the argument for more than I think five that that's that's going to be fine as well. So, okay. So, or are we done with public comment? Comment.

Uh, any other public comment? Uh, you can only talk once really. So, but um any other public comment? Yeah. Go ahead. [clears throat] I I would have one question, John Olson, Cocoa Beach. Um I would have one question about uh Skip's amendment. It does that mean if you don't word it right, does that mean somebody can put five of them out in front of one one home or do they have to be in five different places? I think that's a that's a that's a Dave question there. that together.

Yeah, I I think the intent here is to I think the example we were talking about having a home way down at the end of Minute Man. So, the intent would be to lead people to that to that property. Therefore, they would generally be in five different locations. Um, so I I I think that's how we would interpret that. And Dave, the rules are different for public versus private property, right? So, if somebody's putting a sign out front of their home, it's two signs. Well, public versus private for temporary signs are not allowed on public property. So, these would be strictly limited to private property. So, we're talking about the the realer signs being on private property. These five

only. Now, this is right away too. So, the new reg the new regulations would open it up to the rightway. So that is that's what I was understanding. And then to the gentleman's comment, if if it were two signs on private property, that's the limit for anybody putting signs out in front of their house. Correct. Like a political sign or a correct? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Anything would fit under the definition of a temporary sign. Yeah. And there's no time limit on that. Not on a not on personal property. So, this doesn't limit um businesses can now put signs in right away during the during the hours that we're between between 10 and 4 on the weekend only. [clears throat]

Yeah. Yep. That's okay. They're doing it now anyways, but Well, shouldn't Well, right. [clears throat] If they are doing it now, we we have the ability. You know, the way I see it is that if if it gets out of hand, um then we can we can come back to this and we can we can fix it. So, I think this is something that at least try to try to work with the realators and uh if it gets out of hand, then just like the ebikes, you know, stuff like that, we'll we'll have to come back and and make it work is my opinion. Are we So, uh yeah, public comment. Go ahead. Keep public comment.

Yeah. Yes, we'll go more for public comment. John's got something John and Cooka Beach unless they change the law which could be but you cannot do advertising on the state right away. So 520 and A1A should not be advertising on that. The attorney B verify that. Thank you. Any other public comment? All right, public comment is closed and we'll finish with commission comment. So you know every once in a while, you know, John comes up with a nugget, right? So A1A A1A is a different is a different animal than Minutemen Causeway. The signage on A1A isn't up to us. That's up to the state.

So is that the same right away? Can they put those signs on A1A? Is that is that considered the same? Once they're 25 ft from the center line of the the lane, it is now city right away. It is it's within the city right away. If it's not on the 25 ft back from the intersection within the state right away. We're splitting hairs here. No, I don't think so. I do have a question. I think that's I think that's an issue because we going with this. I want to hear that.

We we talked about we've talked about, hey, we want to put these uh different street signs and whatnot on A1A and we can't do it because it's F. It's got to be FDOT approved. That's what that's what I'm asking. We can't do anything. It's can't we can't put any. So this ordinance would not I don't know. That's what I'm asking. Is that rightway different from the city right away? State's never going to enforce it.

Well, that was my next question for the realators and and I think that it's a very important Well, it's an important question, Dave, if per the commissioner's comment. If there is a sign um that is is not in compliance with this ordinance but it's on A1A it's on the state route. Does our code enforcement do enforcement of that or is that up to the state? We will pull signs and state rights of way but is it appropriate for us to do that if it's a state law rather than a city ordinance?

Um I don't know if the state actually does enforce stuff like that. I don't think they do. But does the city have the ability to enforce appropriation from a legal perspective? I think they consider legal aid for the city to We do it. I mean, if the state came and told us thou should, you know, Yeah. They told us people are people are allowed to put signs there, then yes, I think we should respect that. But I doubt that they're going to do that. Yeah. So, so real quick, Dave, unless the city comes to us, uh, I mean, the state comes to us and says, "We want you to pull these signs that as written,

it you're not going to pull the the signs as long as they're within the what you just wrote out here." Oh, I think we will pull them. Yeah. Well, then what is what does this code [cough] this code do? Unless they meet this code that we're trying to pass. Well, th this code would govern city streets, but I think what I'm hearing Dave say is the state law. It supersedes that. And so even if this would allow them, if the state prohibits it, the state is the is the driver. I think I think our attorney might have something to say about it. She

Yeah. I mean, if this if the state came to us and said, "Do not enforce your sign ordinance within the state right ofway," then I think we'd have to back off. Oh, I think but that right ofway is in the city.

Yeah. But in terms of enforcement [clears throat] and Commissioner Hutcherson, if I'm misstating your question, forgive me or correct it, but on A1A, even if we allowed them to have signs, if it were within the state right away, we would still have to pull those. Even if they were compliance with this ordinance and they're on the state right away, we would still have to pull them because you're not allowed to put them in the state right away. Am I correct? We're not I'm I'm not aware of a state statute that tells cities to pull signs that are located within a state right of way. That was my first question. I thought we said that we'd do it [clears throat]

that we would that we would if there were like five of them or if there were seven of them along there. Yeah, I think we would be pulling. Let me take a shot of this. Dave, I think what you're saying is you would enforce this regardless of where the signs are. City, city property, state property, we would enforce the city ordinance. Okay, just an example. City ordinance. You're driving down A1A and in the median at 520 in the crack of the sidewalk, somebody puts up their pressure washer sign.

Code enforcement is going to take that sign down. It ain't gonna last a day. It's on state. It's on the state road and everything, but they expect us in mutual aid to to to police our own city. Yeah. This ordinance says no median. I'd like to make one quick comment. I mean, the the the intent of these codes again is public safety. And just because it's state rightaway versus city rightaway, that public safety concern and issue does not go away. So although we don't have specific permission, I don't think I've worked anywhere where we've had specific permission from the state to pull to not or or two. It's just a a a practice.

So here's a here's a question. Um obviously the number of signs I get, but the the 5T were applicable. Um and you're saying it could be a certain distance from the center of the road or whatever. So the the whole point of the openhouse signs is so that people on the road can see it and if you're going to pull the signs because now now we can't put them on A1A that the PE that defeats the purpose of of this we're not saying we we're not once this once this ordinance passes put them on A1A once this ordinance passes we're going to treat A1A right away even though it state just like a city right away. So, if that's one of the five, can I call the question?

All right, I understand now. I think we're all on the same page. We understand. Okay. I a little bit. Okay. I I Those were my questions. I have comments. All right. Go ahead.

Um I want to reinforce and agree with Commissioner Tumulti that we do not need to be telling people how to run their businesses and what is effective, what is not. That is not our role. And I think that's important. Um so, thank you for saying that. I'd like to reinforce that too. Um this is not just about realtor signs right in terms of uh me uh where we are allowing businesses any businesses any signers political campaigns need to abide by the same thing

if we are going to ask businesses to jump through the same hoops and I know we give ourselves leeway and we say hey you know what we're going to give ourselves a moratorum is, man, that would be too much work to have to go get my signs and take them back up and put them back out. But I hear the mayor saying it's a heck of a lot of work for our realators. It's a heck of a lot of work for our businesses who were trying to make and so I just think if we're going to put in aside an ordinance because of safety, because of clutter, and then we say, but not us. We got to be careful. Becky reminded us at the last meeting when we considered this that it's a state rule for 30 days prior to an election that

there aren't any uh rules on pl actually hold on guys real quick. This this is a kind of a mute point because Saturday it's a moot point because you can only have two signs on the main highway on the main road there max and only on Saturday and Sunday between those hours. You're going to have what four, five candidates maybe max. You're talking about a couple signs maybe if if somebody chooses to do that. It's you're talking about two days on the weekend between 10 and 4 if your candidate can be on the side of the road. Only two signs.

What I'm saying is it needs to be consistent. Yeah. Did I I think I think what you're remembering because I did say a lot of cities and a lot of them do um have their [clears throat] own ordinances that say for 30 days before and two days after um any election in the city then Yep. just basically we don't enforce our temporary sign ordinance, right? Um or we don't enforce our sign ordinance. And to my knowledge, the last one that and in fact I spoke with the city manager personally and

I see signs where they should not be and he said and and and I think this was reasonable and I think this was exactly in line. So I'm not I'm not picking on him. I think it was but we said we're not going to enforce it. I don't even think there was a resolution. We can check the record. But there were many signs where they were not allowed to be and we didn't enforce it. Wasn't that the size of the sign? No, I thought that was the size of it was loc. It was where they were being placed as well. They were not on personal property. I agreed. And I remember that when I placed my signs, I had permission from the homeowner

and they were on their property inside of their property from the city right away. Now, if a lawn guy decided he was going to pull it up because he had to mow there and moved it closer to the street, the next time I went by, I'd move it back to where it belonged. And I think that's excellent. But for people to just stick him in a little strip of grass between the sidewalk and the curb, that's that's game for getting pulled up.

Yeah. And I think it should be. What I'm saying is we do a moratorum and we allow political candidates to do what we are expecting our businesses to have to deal with. I just want to I think that that either we be overt about it and say yeah, we're not going to hold ourselves the same standard or we be specific and direct and say we're going to have to live by the same rules because it it should cut both ways. I I don't recall any, but you know, if signs were in, from my perspective, if there were signs in the rideway for anyone, I thought they were illegal and they should have been pulled. There was no moratorium. I don't recall that at all. I mean, somebody would call them out. Um, I agree there. There's no there's no special exemption for political signs.

I think that's should follow the same rules. So, I mean, that's ridiculous. Like Skip said, it, you know, if we put signs out when we're running for office, it's, you know, you go talk to somebody, you put it on their property during that season. That's it. There's no putting signs on right away. That's I mean, if you put them on a rideway, people actually frown upon that and they're going to they're probably not going to vote for you because of it. I'm not going to dig it up and show pictures, but second question on I'm going to finish. Second piece to the ordinance as it stands on private property. Two signs.

How many of us on our own private property had more than two signs in the last election? Just saying. We need to be consistent. I've never had any. I know you had one. That's one of mine. [laughter] That's one of mine. My wife would That's a fair point. That's a fair point. We I'm sorry, guys. We already we already public question. Yeah. So we're approved at the five the amendments the five five which which doesn't include the two that they could put on their personal property. Vote for the amendment first. Wow. Okay. Increasing quantity from three to five is okay we let's vote on the amendment. All in favor of the amendment I I

I nay. All opposed. So uh was that one nay? One nay. Okay. M it doesn't matter. So, I was going to say, all right, motion passes 41. All right. And then let's vote on the actual amendment. Main motion. I mean, the main motion. Can I ask a question? Commissioner, is it that you wanted more or less you want to keep it at three? I'm just making a point. Fair enough. Okay. Uh, all in favor of the main motion? I I I. All opposed? Motion passes 5. All right. Uh we are adjourned. I love it. Sorry Carrie. I