Board of Trustees - Regular Meeting

Mel, how are you? How's the Legion coming? How's the Legion coming? Is it as bad as it sounds?

Yeah, I mean, when your foundation gives in, when your foundation calls in.

I think it's closed for a while.

Power's out of control. She's not here.

All right, perfect. Hey, welcome, everyone. Thanks for coming to our meeting tonight, for our business meeting. If you could, please rise and join us for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

welcome everyone thank you for showing up to our monthly business meeting and uh mr campbell let the record reflect that all three trustees are present even mr becker who had a little health scare so glad you could be here with us i'm glad you're doing all right the uh Before we get into things, I always like to go over this so everyone knows. Here in just a moment, we're going to have public comments. And public comments, you have comment cards back there. And that's for you to talk about anything that you want. You get five minutes to talk to the board and things that are on your mind. If you're here for a couple of the zoning cases, which I'm betting some of you probably are, I would suggest holding your comments until we get to that zoning case because basically you're going to have to repeat yourself twice, if that makes sense. So for the sake of that, I would say wait till we get to that zoning resolution case. But if you have anything else on your mind here in just a moment, you want to grab a public comment card back there, fill that out, and then we'll come by and grab that here in just a moment. So Mr. Campbell, are there any correspondence for tonight?

Yes, sir. I have two. The first one is a liquor permit. This is a new permit for Amy's F&B LLC doing business as scramblers. 4375 Ferguson Drive, Suite C, Cincinnati, Ohio, 45245. The police department says they have no objections and Mr. Flaude has sent over the corresponding zoning and it is permitted in that use. Second, I've got a letter from the Cincinnati Snapdragons, thank you card really. Says to our friends at Union Township, thank you again for all your support of the Snapdragons. Our athletes had fun playing baseball this season. Please accept our donation as gratitude for all you do, the Cincinnati Stop Dragons. That concludes the correspondence.

Good job, Mr. Campbell. Appreciate that very much. Okay. Personnel actions tonight. Mr. Taylor, they are both for you, so I will throw the floor over to you, and I'm going to let you introduce the first candidate, sir.

Thank you, Mr. Dills. Stand in front of the podium.

To the podium.

To the podium.

Just turn around the other side.

We're the ones that are going to vote on you. Sorry. We're going to use this video a few times.

After we hear from the audience. Tonight I'm presenting to the Board of Trustees Eric Lautenslager for consideration of employment with the Union Township Service Department. Mr. Lawrence Slogger is a resident of Claremont County. Mr. Lawrence Slogger has an extensive background in construction, concrete, and blacktop, having spent many years in the private sector as well as the public sector. Mr. Lautenslager has successfully completed all pre-employment phases for the maintenance worker one position. I would like to request that the board appoint Eric Lautenslager to the position of maintenance worker one in accordance with the collective bargaining agreement at the two-year rate. Mr. Lautenslager's start date would be September 2nd, 2026. Got it.

Yeah.

Thank you, Mr. Taylor. Mr. Becker, anything for him? Eric? I just want to say thank you for considering Union Township for employment. You sound like you are qualified for the position. Thank you. Mr. Luke, sir?

Hey, no, just we're looking forward to welcoming you to the team. We have so much trust and respect in your boss, Mr. Taylor. And so we know anyone that he brings forward is going to be a great asset to support him and the team. So we're looking forward to having you. Thanks. Eric, do you got your family here?

No, it's okay. No sweat. The Claremont County resident, fantastic. A lot of asphalt experience. You'll definitely be a good fit for the team. The service department is a great group of guys. You're going to love them. So they'll have your back. Everyone's teammanship mentality. So you'll love it. So yeah, we'll welcome the team. So give me just one more minute. And then, by the way, after we get done voting, if you could, hang out to the side just for a minute. And then we got one more in the service department. And we'll grab a picture with you before you go, OK? OK. Perfect. Yeah, no sweat. So gentlemen, I'll entertain a motion for the approval of the hire of Eric Lanslager. That's not German, is it? To the position of maintenance worker one at the step three, two-year rate consistent with the collective bargaining agreement with an effective date of September 2nd, 2026, pending successful completion of physical examination. So moved. Second. All right. Any discussion? Mr. Campbell, roll call.

Mr. Becker? Yes. Mr. Lowe? Yes. Mr. Dills? Yes. Motion carries. Congratulations, Eric.

Yeah. Congratulations. He's new here. Congratulations. Congrats.

Welcome aboard. Congratulations, Eric.

Congrats, Eric. Thank you. Congratulations. Welcome aboard. Thank you.

And Eric, hang out real quick. Either way. Yeah. Do whatever you want. Mr. Taylor, sir, I will throw the floor right back over to you, sir.

Thank you, Mr. Dills. Tonight I would like to present an employee for consideration of promotion. I would like to present John Cascaden for the position of maintenance worker two. Mr. Cascaden has been a service department employee since 2006. During his tenure, Mr. Cascaden has worked in all facets of the service department. He has also became a certified playground safety instructor and has also received a certification in parks and recreation management from the NPRA. Because Caden also has an associate's degree in business administration and has successfully completed all facets of the promotion.

He didn't test it for his weight. So, no, we're thrilled that you continue your service with us. So thank you for that. John, you got your family here, right?

Yeah, a little wife and two little Montrealers.

Please, point them out. Point them out, please.

I'm on the third row. She's still in her uniform. Yeah, I saw. I saw.

Our dispatch? Yeah.

Well, good, good. John, good people, man. 20 years you've been with Union Township. Appreciate you very much, and no doubt you're a leader within the team. And I know Mr. Becker has, I have. We've seen you downstairs at the gym many, many times, getting out after 12 noon for lunchtime, like clockwork. But you always step up and help people. the whole team whenever needed. So appreciate you very much. Also, I heard Mr. Taylor said you went back and got several certifications, education while you've been here for the past 20 years. Appreciate you very much. So no doubt we want you to stay here and retire with us. So you're doing a great job. So appreciate you very much. Yeah, absolutely. So gentlemen, I'll entertain a motion for the approval for the promotion of John Cascaden Jr. to the position of maintenance worker two at the step five year rate consistent with collective bargaining agreement effective date August 12th, 2026. Selma.

Okay.

all right and by the way says they're going to clear up for a second if anyone has a public comment card miss air is going to be walking around right there if you can hand that to her this is not for zoning cases just just public comment she's going to grab those anyone oh it looks like looks like jude's got one perfect all right okay All right. Perfect. Thanks, Mr. Okay. I've got a few of them. No sweat. All right. No particular order. All right. First one. Is it Mark? Is it Blackham? Is that correct? Mark, sir, come on up and then just do me a favor. You have five minutes and whatever's on your mind, just state your name and address for the record. But you are good to go, sir.

My name is Mark Blackham. My address is 4257 Englishwoods Court, Fiji, Ohio. And I come before you to express my concern about the automatic license plate readers that have been placed. I work in IT and I'm concerned about the information that is gathered and how it's used and the access to that information. I don't know if there are any procedures and policies that are in place that would protect the citizens over people. And the other point that I have is that one of the cameras was placed in the property . And I'm concerned about the privacy. So it's kind of pointing in towards my backyard.

Okay, thank you very much. Anything else, Mr. Blackham?

Is there any policies or procedures that we have that affect our citizens?

Now, there are other agencies that are allowed access to our cameras if we allow them. And the best way I can explain that to you is if another department, another state is looking for a stolen car that they believe might be in Ohio, specifically union township, they may ask for permission to access our camera system to see if that particular placement through union township. And we would typically grant that.

And how often does that happen?

Quite, quite, quite, quite frequently.

Do we have other departments around the country request access to our cameras?

But that doesn't mean that they have access to every still shot of every car that's been through Union Township. That just means that they are allowed to see if the plate or the car they are looking for has been through Union Township.

So in short, the positive side of that is criminal activity that could be associated with the plate is what is looked for, like an algorithm?

Right, I mean, I don't know how much you know about the cameras, sir, but they're not surveillance in the respect of there's an officer sitting at the station watching the cameras and it's a live feed. They strictly take pictures of cars as they go by. So imagine a still shot of a vehicle with a license plate on the back.

Does it even maintain visual images, or does it essentially... strip the license plate so that like strictly if your officers another entity is looking to find a license plate number that that's the only license plate number that's going to hit if it hits because it came through that camera if they give us a license plate number yeah and is this camera in a in a neighborhood or is it on a main drag it's on um

Okay, because there are HOA cameras that are not controlled by the township. These are township cameras. Okay.

Yeah, I believe I know the camera you're talking about.

Those cameras, they're not positioned. We don't have any in neighborhoods. They're usually along thoroughfares. However, I can't guarantee that the camera that's aimed at a thoroughfare doesn't catch a house or two in your neighborhood. I think I know the camera you're talking about, though. Is that one of ours or is that an HOA? That's one of ours. Our cameras are only, the township leases are only on thoroughfares. Think Old 74, 125, Mount Carmel, Tabasco Road, they're not back in neighborhoods on township streets.

So what is the retention period on that?

30 days. Okay. Yeah, so those still shots that are taken are captured for 30 days. So if you drive by one today, you're place captured for 30 days, then the camera overwrites it. So we have 30 days, a 30-day look-back period on those.

And that's the information that's going to be filed?

Correct, correct. I'm sure that if we did a breakdown, we could tell what plates for what period of time were captured in our system if we did an audit on it. But we trust that the system overwrites it every 30 days. And it's a pretty easy check. I mean, we can check if we've looked for a certain license plate on a certain date. If it's still in there 30 days after 30 days from then, then we'll know the system's not working correctly.

I just have concern in general about it and gathering information about our citizens. I would expect that if I was in a prison or incarcerated. But in our environment, I don't expect that to be something that our government would be gathering information about, the citizen and the movement and those types of things. Frankly, you're probably looking at this for I've heard investigations and stuff criminal activity. Our area is a very low crime area. That's one of the reasons why I live here. And having that extra surveillance as a citizen is just something I don't really expect to have here in my community.

I completely understand, hear your perspective on it, and I'm definitely open to continuing to hear, you know, your type of concern, community's perspectives as well. I agree with you, too, from your own individual perspective as We live in a safe community. I guess I have somewhat firsthand experience where my wife's car was stolen out of our driveway in the middle of the night, and the license plate hit on flock cameras that were along Beachmont Avenue somewhere. I think it was Beachmont Avenue. Cite me to that specific fact. It was somewhere east of here through Anderson Township. And between that and having a locator on the car that I thankfully had with some other possessions in the car, it made it so that the team was able to recover that car within five hours since it was stolen, which is miraculous. But that do recognize when you're in that, you know, criminal activity comes to your doorstep.

Yeah.

Me either. And I'd chat with you as long as I could too on, I carry this in my pocket, right? I carry this in my pocket, like pretty much everybody else here. And this hasn't, camera microphone everything so yeah with you it's not right right i'm just telling you i i hear you and completely understand and that that's type of technology that has been accessible to be able to um outside of our jurisdiction talking so yeah mr black i'll just say this and then uh and then i'll i'll be good but um

It solved a lot of crime very fast, very quickly. If we do the old school way, that's fine too. We can absolutely do that and pull them down. I don't have a problem with that at all. If someone was to break into your car and you capture a black Toyota Camry, but that's all the information you have at 11 o'clock at night, We can run that data type in black Toyota Camry and from 11 o'clock to 1115 or 1130 to pass any of those cameras. We can narrow it down and just help the detectives. Oh, there's the license plate. Let's track the address. Let's go knock on the door. It would help solve. It does help solve crimes a lot faster. However, if the community of Union Township feels like. it's it's they don't like them they don't want them um that's that's fine we can we can take them down um i don't think that's the sort of anyone else is going to die or hillary must be going to die on i'll tell you um i just don't want to make a knee-jerk reaction because i'll tell you all the surrounding police forces have them for the most part for the most part and and we would be the only ones that didn't then then the question goes well then do you want us to access if your house or car got broke into or someone hit skip and they left Do you want us to access flocks in Anderson, Miami, Hamilton Township to try to track down the criminal? Or is that unfair? Should we not do that because we took ours down? So those are questions that we need to ask. So I don't want to make a knee-jerk reaction, but I will say if the community of Union Township solely feels that this is a violation and it violates our Fourth Amendment rights, then roger that. We'll pull them down. However... However, we cannot complain when it takes three, four, five weeks to solve a simple break into a car when it could have taken two hours. And the biggest example I can give is the Mason shooting that happened. Guy got 22 bullets put in him, and it was because of a flock camera and tracked down the guy on 275. And they got him real quick. Would have happened that fast if they didn't have flock cameras when that car passed that plate. So questions we all have to just think and ask ourselves. But for me, I'll speak for me, it's not a hill I'm willing to die on. If the community doesn't want them, we'll pull them down. However, I will say it does help solve crime pretty quickly. But all good. I hear you loud and clear, though. Yeah, no problem. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you. Good question. OK. Now, Mr. Taylor, looking at this one, this one might be for you. Just so you know, so you might want to take down this name and address. I got a Scott Shielman. Hopefully I'm pronouncing your name right. Shielman?

Are you going to get free 2016? You said not to do the case.

Oh, I see your case number. Yeah, you're good. I don't need this thing. You're fine. Yep, never mind. You're good. OK, perfect. Sorry. OK, let's see here. John Hunt. Mr. Hunt? Oh, gosh, okay. Yeah, you're good. You're good. No sweat. Oh, our good friend, Ms. DeWitt. Jude, come on up. Ms. DeWitt, you know protocol. You go on ahead. The floor is yours.

Good evening, gentlemen. My name is Jude DeWitt. I just wanted to congratulate all of you, including the police chief, for a wonderful police night out. It was great. It was. I was helping with the food, and around the back of the concession stand down at the bottom of the building, It was, now I know that that was all reworked this year.

That plan was all reworked.

It needs some smoothing, it needs some, it still needs a little bit of work. We had trouble walking down the hill. We did it with small children. The kids were tripping. It just needs some rework, so I just wanted to let you know about that, and I'll be back in the spring to remind you to have something done.

Which part of the park specifically?

Behind the concession stand.

Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Michelle, are you good on that? We got you, Mrs. Good call. Yeah, yeah.

But that was really the only problem I saw, and I came to ask. But I just want to let you know, I'll be back on the screen to make sure it's done. Yes, ma'am. But we had fun, and it was all really well done. Thank you so much.

I appreciate the kind words and encouragement. Thank you. Thank you for volunteering. Thank you. Okay. Last call. Is there any other public comments at all? Anything on your mind? All right. Seeing none, we'll close public comments. All right. Department reports. Let's start with our fire chief, Chief Clemonster. The floor is yours.

Thank you, Mr. Deals. Real quick, just an update on today's storm that came through. I know a lot of residents are currently without power. Notification from Duke is that 40,000 residents within Claremont County are currently out. It could take up to 24 hours to get everybody back up and running. So just an update on that. We handled about 25 to 30 emergency calls with trees and wires down within that hour of the storm. So it was a pretty busy day for the fire department. um so in the month of july fire department responded to 231 fire and service calls 667 ems calls which totals 898 total calls which was average of 29 calls per day made patient contact with 604 patients and transported 489 of those completed 808 hours of training took part in 13 public education details Hosted ride time for EMT paramedic students in a total of 78 hours. Completed 48 life safety inspections and 16 inspections in conjunction with Claremont County Building Department. And that concludes my report.

Thanks, Chief. Mr. Baker? I'm good. Mr. Luke, sir?

Chief, if anyone's having a... pain in their jaw, pain in their left arm, chest tightness, sweating, what should they do and how fast should they do it?

Yeah, all of those are some serious symptoms, which our recommendation is to call 911 as fast as possible and get somebody, get a professional on scene to mitigate the situation.

Okay.

Well, nobody told me that.

Okay. Should someone in that condition then also drive themselves to the hospital? I'll leave that. You don't have to answer that. You don't have to answer that. I'll leave it at that. I'm good. Thanks, Chief. That was pretty funny. That was funny. Good opportunity to ask the fire chief some questions.

You're good. You're good. Thank you, Chief. And then our police department, Chief Reese, sir.

Thank you, Mr. Dills. In the month of July, the communications section handled 5,332 calls for service. Our records section processed 572 court-related documents for juvenile and adult court. We processed 148 court notices requiring an officer's appearance in court. handled 173 records requests, and redacted 36 body camera videos. And the area public relations officers conducted or participated in six events, including two active shooter response trainings for area businesses. We participated in the Fourth of July Parade and Shaler Crossing, hosted a bicycle safety event in the polo fields, and participated in a quarterly outreach program with Eastgate Walmart. and we conducted one safety talk at a senior living facility. In the area of operations, our officers took 367 incident reports, 100 crash reports, made 554 traffic stops, issued 176 citations, 354 warnings, made 98 criminal arrests, 91 traffic arrests, and served 83 criminal warrants. In the area of training, our officers attended 80 hours of training, in the month of July. Currently, within the police department, we have three open police officer positions and a open dispatch position. Um, I just want to close by thanking our residents, uh, as Mr. Witt had noted, it was another great police night out, uh, probably the highest attendance we've had. And I also want to thank, uh, my fellow department heads, uh, Mr. Taylor and chief Clements, um, just the touch of the, the, uh, tower truck and the flag, uh, helping with air care landing. It really it's the police night out, but it's really a township event. I just appreciate the help of all the other departments and making it a success. And lastly, to echo Chief Clement's comments today, was an absolute mess. I stopped in our dispatch center, and I'm really proud of our dispatchers. They handled a really tough time, incredibly, including one dispatcher who literally got a phone call while I was in there that a tree came down and totaled her garage. We had extra help on today. She didn't leave. She stayed there, and I heard her tell her fellow dispatchers she wasn't going to leave them in that mess. So I'm just so proud of all our people. They work really hard for our township residents. That concludes my report. Thank you.

Thanks, Chief Reese. Vice Chair?

Yeah, a couple things. So first off, kudos on Police Night Out. It was once again a great event. On the call-out reports, there was one particular case I want to ask you about. It was child endangering that occurred on July 14th. It's a little girl, two-year-old, severe burns. So two questions. How is she? What's her condition? Is she recovered or not? And what happened?

Yeah, so this was a young girl in this case you're mentioning. She had second-degree burns. Long story short, no criminal, no neglect involved here. This was an apartment complex. The family just moved in. This is a younger child that got into the bathtub, turned the water on, and the maintenance, unfortunately, had the water heater settings very high. The girl's doing fine. We got her to the hospital, treated her for the burns, and she's okay.

All right, good. Yeah, that's easy to happen. Okay, thank you. That's all I have, Chairman.

Mr. Logan? Hey, quick question, Chief, with, again, an interest to hear from the community and just really keep the pulse with that. Like Trustee Dill said, flock cameras, If the community wants them or if the community doesn't want them, fine either way. Would it be impactful or difficult in the reporting if, you know, I'm not sure if there is a count of when a flock camera's use in the preceding 30 days, like, benefited solving a crime or apprehending someone or, like, Yeah, there's probably nothing ever positive. I know maybe historically, too. Now there's a lot of discussion about flock cameras and people are looking where things are at. And I understand there's a police perspective of criminals avoid those cameras as they can. So I don't know how much of that help is positive for the discussion to hear from the community. But yeah, as far as just a count of utilization, is that something that.

Yeah, good question. And we're trying we're doing a much better job now because this is such a polarizing topic of tracking our success stories. I can tell you these cameras are used every day for minor misdemeanor shoplifting where they get to take off in a car to major felonies. We are solving real crime every day with these cameras. And I wholeheartedly believe that the township is much safer because we have these cameras. But I do understand the effect and the impression that they leave on the community. We're solving crimes every day with them.

Is there the ability to have utilization?

Do you want a hard number of how many crimes we're solving monthly with them?

Just consider if that's a value add to the discussion or if the residents would want to know it or see it at a trustee's report. I don't know if Becker or Dells would have something to add to that concept, but it's just a question. I don't have a metric to say go find now, but if you're open to seeing if he comes up with something or, hey, here's how it's a pro or a con or this utilization rate of the flock cameras. It's been used 30 times in the last 30 days and solved 30 crimes.

It would be interesting to see the crimes that have been solved, especially, I mean, I think of the Venezuelan nationals that were knocking off of Sharefax, I think three different times. They got busted all three times. With flock cameras. With flock cameras. I mean, that's great stuff. And there's more and more stories like that. And I think a compilation of those kind of stories is great for the community to want to hear that. Yeah.

We can certainly do that.

Imagine the data pool's got to be by that auditor, that investigative sergeant. Yeah.

If it does not put too much of a stress or bandwidth on the police, because you are three officers short right now, I say absolutely I'd like to have those stats. But if you can't, you can't, I understand as well. That's right. We can do that for sure. Thank you. Thanks. Great question, Floyd. Chief, I'll say I'm looking at your total calls, 5,484 total calls to your dispatch center. That is a record for the year. That's the most we've had was in July. And the stat I always like to look at is how many traffic stops we had when we had 554 traffic stops. Obviously those are variable for running a stop sign to, you know, getting pulled over doing, you know, 85, right? but citations was 176 but warnings was 354 you know so that's I just I love that fact that we tried to not be hard-line police officers and understand you know things happen and let people offer the warning I like that so but but I will say I agree with You and both you and Chief Clemons and Mr. Taylor, which you're coming up next. But all three of you, your team did a great job preparing the land, the landscape, and the parks to get ready for a police night out. That's our biggest night of the year. Great job to your team. And then both of you, both, I mean, I think you all had just about equal amount of staff there. So your firefighters and police officers were greeting everybody nicely and smiling and out and just giving them tours of the trucks and equipment and everything. Yeah, just a really awesome night. Great job. You handled yourselves top notch. So good job both of you. Appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Well done. Mr. Taylor, your service department, sir, you are up. The floor is yours.

Thank you, Mr. Dills. In the cemetery division from July 1st through the 31st, 16 burials were performed, generating $29,552. 18 resident graves were purchased for $36,000. Two-column barium niches were purchased for $6,000. Nine foundation orders were purchased for $2,934. The total amount generated for the period was $75,986. In the Parks Division, weekly mowing and trimming and landscape continues on all township buildings and within our parks. And in the Roads Division, the Road Department patched a total of 96 potholes over 13 township streets, and a total of 23 work orders were completed on multiple township roads. And that concludes my report.

Great. Good job. Mr. Becker? Mr. Logan? Good, thank you. Mr. Taylor, your team's doing a good job. And then I think Mr. Kiskaden, 20 years is well overdue for a promotion, so good night for him. I'm glad to hear that. Okay, Mr. Flaude, Planning and Zoning Director, sir, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Mr. Dills. The inspection and violations this month, there were a total of 38 inspections, 18 complaints received, three of those complaints being unfounded, eight warning citations issued in the month of July, three 15-day noncompliance letters with one 30-day violation letter, There were a total of 10 resolved with and without action complaints, 496 illegal signs removed, 12 miscellaneous issues resolved for a monthly total violation of 19, and one nuisance filed within the month of July. The activity, we had one change of use, seven signs issued, one temporary sale. We had seven single-family homes. issued five additions, four decks, eight accessories, and 11 pools and fences for a monthly total of 44 permits and a total revenue of $8,225. And that concludes my report. Mr. Vice Chair?

I'm good. Mr. Logue? I'm good. Thank you, Mr. Flaherty.

Mr. Flaherty, great job. You were busy. Nice job.

All right.

Lastly is our Township Administrator, Mr. Wright. Go ahead, sir.

Thank you, sir. I'll be brief with the zoning hearings we have. Not much to provide on the old 74 schoolhouse, the black box and sidewalk systemic safety grant. Stage one plans have been submitted to ODOT and that's in process. We have applied, as I mentioned previously, for transportation alternative funding for the I-COLTS sidewalk expansion. It's basically from Walmart kind of getting us down to Ivy Point in that I expect we will do well. on the scoring but okay i canceled their august meeting so we'll have to wait for good news until september hopefully uh when they score those projects uh unfortunately odot did not approve our systemic safety grant application for summerside road but again we uh i am relatively stubborn so we are going to reapply as They liked the project, but there was a lot of need. We did, however, receive about $150,000 in CDBG funding to advance a portion of sidewalks on Summerside Road. So we'll be working with the county through that process. 2026 road rate road resurfacing projects are underway roads you'll start to see milling and filling activities uh the bulk of the activities today have been curb replacements throughout the county again we we save a lot of money through this program uh so a little bit of delay is worth it because we are able to stretch our paving dollars farther every year um Work continues on the safe routes plan. Mr. Woodruff and Mr. Flaherty are all over that. I do have news on the OPWC project on Elmont. All of the easements have been secured. We're waiting on utility relocations, and the county will be bidding that out. There will be a separate sidewalk addition that's not included in the OPWC grant because of the way that they score those projects. If you put a sidewalk in, they penalize you. I don't understand why. But anyway, we'll be bringing that to the board for that when we get closer to a bid award number there. Just a couple other items. We will be bringing a GED 9 expansion to you to add an additional facility to that. And we have a couple of nuisance resolutions for the board and the hazard mitigation plan Just a couple of late ads. We did have a then and now certificate for park water usage, and we also added we have an OPWC joint application authorization with Miami Township for slide repairs. The county's not doing slide repairs, unfortunately, this year. So if we band together with another organization, we tend to score better. We're looking specifically at Baldwin. Last item, there's an item on the agenda to transfer a fire truck disposed property to the CIC for economic development purposes. And that is something, if you recall, we use the CIC to acquire equipment, but we also use it to dispose of equipment. So that really concludes my report.

Thank you, sir. Vice Chairman? No, I'm good. Mr. Logan? I have nothing. You're good? Okay. That's right. Good job. Thank you for the report. Okay. Public hearings. Now there's four of them. I'm betting you are most here for two of them out of the four. So we put the two easiest ones first so we can knock them out and those folks can go home and then obviously the latter two at the end. So, all right. Public hearings. Okay. And... Public hearing case, Union Township overlay case 3-26-0 is an Oscar. Mr. Flaude, would you like to go and explain that one, sir?

Thank you, Mr. Dills. This application is located at 1118 Ferris Road. The applicant is Mike Shibesta, and he is requesting... approval from the union township board of trustees for an overlay district plan consisting of five new structures one of them being a 2500 two-story structure for a shop and office use while there'll be four additional lean-to slash additions to the existing structure the applicant is additionally seeking relief from the 10 foot and 20 foot m1 zoning district minimum setbacks per article 6. to have the minimum rear and side yard setbacks be at 3 feet 6 inches. And this project is located in the Buxton Road commercial corridor. Some background information. The primary principal structure site was constructed around 1988. Since that time, the main building has primarily housed the best business entities in a variety of other light industrial uses. They were recently here in 2025. with another accessory structure that was approved. Some staff review and analysis. This proposal meets the proposed intent of both the adopted comprehensive land use plan and the overall overlay district regulations. The plan proposes the expansion and or addition of preexisting structures or uses such as warehouses, storages in office spaces. No new lighting is proposed at this time. When the time of permitting comes, we'll need it subject to Article 14 of the zoning resolution and any non-enclosed structure generally used for storage should be efficiently screened from the main road via landscaping or fencing to maintain a cohesive level of visual cleanliness. The action required tonight is in accordance with Section 1310 of the zoning resolution that the Board of Trustees is to enter a motion to approve as submitted, approve with modifications, or deny this focus area overlay district application as presented in Union Township Zoning Case 3-26-0. There are five recommended modifications should the board choose to grant favorably upon this application, the first one being that the applicant shall comply with the requirements of all federal, state, and local agencies. All future lighting shall meet the adopted Article 14 regulations of the zoning resolution. Any monument signage shall be compliant with the 2030 land use plan. The applicant shall provide additional privacy fencing and screening for materials should any fall within out of the completely enclosed building and lastly the applicant shall review shall be subject to review of the buildings containing the number of structures square footage location and materials subject to administrative review and approval and that concludes the report for the overlay case 3-26-0 mr do we have any pictures of what these future buildings are going to look like uh we do not have any pictures of what the actual architectural renderings, but the applicant can speak better on this, but it would match the existing buildings. It would be a metal metal construction. Uh, since this is in the M one district and the surrounding buildings are, hold on one second, sir.

Hold on, sir. I'll call you up in just one second. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Okay, fair enough. Mr. Becker, any questions? No. Mr. Logan, any questions? No. Okay. Mr. Folley, for a future, I get it. I want pictures of what the future buildings are going to look like from now on. So tell the applicants from now on I would like to see those. Okay. Just some kind of what they're going to look like, not just, you know, not this. Okay. For any new building, I would like to see an actual picture of what it's going to look like. Okay. Fair enough. No worries. Okay, gentlemen, I'll entertain a motion to open this public hearing case. Union Township overlay case 3-26-0 is an Oscar. So moved.

Second.

Any discussion? Mr. Campbell, roll call.

Mr. Becker? Yes. Mr. Logue? Yes. Mr. Dills? Yes. Public hearing is open at 6.48 PM.

All right. Public hearing is open. All right. So now, sorry, I forgot to follow protocol. So sorry. I'll go and call you up. So first thing, well, first thing, I'll call anyone up that is a proponent of this case. And then here's how I'm going to do this with all zoning cases tonight, just so you know. There's four of them. I'm going to call up usually the person that would like to have this passed. And then I'll call up anyone that's against it. And then I'll call up again so the developer, whoever's purchasing the property, wants to do the project to basically kind of counter or answer any questions for those that are against the case. That's how I'm going to do it for every single case tonight. But just do me a favor. I've got to swear you in. And go ahead and raise your right hand if you could. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God? I do. Okay, great. And then just state your name and address for the record.

Mike Shabuska. Our business is located at 1118 Ferris Road. Emilio, Ohio 45102. I live in Aderson Township. Fireside drives.

Perfect, yeah. The floor is yours, whatever you'd like to say. Okay. Yeah.

So it turns out it's a very expensive process to even start to think about building a building. So in this case, I failed to put the two side pieces on last year when I put the first building in. Yeah. So on this particular drawing, all the way to the corner there next to Dave's driveway, the white strip. Without your approval, nothing can happen. After that, you're looking at $6,000 to $8,000 for a water management study. You could spend $10,000, $15,000 before you could even ask the architect to draw something. So you're the first step. In this particular case, I had an agreement with that I would show all my future plans. So the yellow things are things that we may do down in the future. Each one of those would require the initial zoning application for that particular structure. So this is strictly to get the dimension on that proposed structure now and with the water management issues, the chances get slimmer every day there will ever be built.

Okay, I understand.

The building has to come out partway into the detention pond And even though there's never, I won't say never, this week proved it, I've never seen water above the grass in the detention pond. There was two feet in there because Ferris Road backed up and filled our detention pond on that end of the building. A little further complication, the dock. At the corner of the yellow was the original detention pond, but the contractor builder didn't tell us that. So more complicated. So I'm simply trying to get the side corrected on the east side. I'm doing the west side so I don't have to come back next year and waste your all time.

Sure.

Got it. Any questions about the process of the approach or anything?

Vice Chairman? No.

Okay.

Mr. Luke? Not at the time. Thank you. All right. And you might not know this, Mr. Flauty. Currently, because I heard it said, what's the current setback and then what's the setback that they're asking for?

So there is the side setbacks of 10 feet and then the rear setback of 20. And overall, they're asking for 3 feet 6 inches. Inches, so it's a reduction of like 16, yeah. Okay, okay.

The back is already done last year, so we're really talking the two sides.

Three, not worried about it. Okay, perfect. And then a total of five buildings? Five buildings total. Okay. Can you describe, first of all, what kind of business are you in?

I do commercial real estate, and I'm a systems engineer, so I do IT stuff.

Well, I guess, what do you plan on doing with the buildings?

I rent out 95% of the building to Kepa Electric. Okay. They're the neighbor to this side. Sure. They've expanded that, and we've kind of joined the two properties, so we've probably created, I don't know, 75 jobs there. Fair enough. Yeah. You know, parking's an issue.

I have 60 spaces, and it's still not enough. That's a good, bad problem. Well, Mr. Shavesta, appreciate you investing in Union Township. You're growing. I appreciate that. Thank you for that. Yeah, all good. That's all the questions I have for you, sir. I appreciate you very much. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Is there any other proponents to this case, anyone that is for this case? Oh, please, come on up. The floor is yours, please. And by the way, just so everyone knows, every zoning case, when you want to come up and speak, I've got to swear you in every time. All right, come on up, sir.

then just raise your right hand and then sir do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth i think about the truth to help you god i do great uh state your name and address my name is dave flourish i own the adjoining building 1120 ferris road perfect i also live in anderson mike and i discussed this yeah he got me on board with what they wanted to do and it's also my also my best interest also to have that setback change my ingress into my place, if my building has to be set out 20 feet from that line, it's going to really limit the size of the building that I can build. Got it. Perfect.

I'm on board. Fantastic. Well, I appreciate the testimony. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you very much. Okay. Is there anyone else that is a proponent of this case? I see none. Is there anyone that's against this case? Opponent? Last call. All right. No sweat. Okay. All right. Gentlemen, I'll entertain a motion to close public hearing case 3-2, 6-0 as an Oscar. So moved. Second. Mr. Campbell, roll call.

Mr. Becker? Yes. Mr. Logue? Yes. Mr. Dills? Yes. The public portion of this hearing is closed at 6.54 p.m.

Okay, gentlemen, discussion. Mr. Becker? Yes. Fair enough. Mr. Logue, any issues, concerns? I have none. Okay, good. Likewise. Gentlemen, I'll entertain a motion for the approval of Union Township Overlay Case 3-26-0 as an Oscar for the approval with modifications as recommended. So moved. Second. Any further discussion? Mr. Campbell, roll call.

Mr. Becker? Yes. Mr. Logue? Yes. Mr. Dills? Yes. Motion carries.

Congratulations, Mike. You're good. Oh, you got it. No sweat. They're working together. Oh, it's the same problem. Got it, got it. Maybe I'll change my mind on this one. Okay. Mr. Flauty, sir, over-collate case 4-26-0 is an Oscar. I don't anticipate this taking too long. You go ahead, sir.

Thank you. thank you mr dills this is property located at 1120 ferris road it's directly behind mr avesta's property the applicant is special touch landscaping and they're requesting from the board of trustees in overlay district plan consisting of two enclosed storage structures. The first being a total of 10,000 square feet with a second being 6,000 square feet. The applicant is seeking relief from the 20 foot setback in the M one district to have a setback of three feet, six inches in the M one district located in the box Buxton corridor. The subject property sits on 4.77 acres and again is zoned M1. The principal primary structures were constructed around 1991 and 92. And the applicant intends to improve the property by constructing the additional structures for storage, as noted for the existing landscaping business. Staff review and analysis. This proposal meets the intent of both the comprehensive land use plan and the overall district regulations. Surrounding properties are M1 industrial. and it is consistent with supporting the goals and recommendations of the box box Buxton Road commercial corridor. Again, if any new lighting is proposed, it will need to be in accordance with Article 14 of the zoning resolution and any detention proposed for the site containing any water from any additional proposals on the property. The action tonight that is required is in accordance with section 1310 of the zoning resolution that the Board of Trustees is to enter into a motion to approve as submitted, approve with modifications, or deny this focus area overlay district applications as presented in case number 4-26-0. There are five recommended modifications should the board grant favorable consideration to the overlay application. One, that the applicant shall comply with the requirements of all federal, state, and local agencies. The future lighting plan shall be with the requirements of Article 14. If there are any proposals of signage, it shall be monument-style signage. The applicant shall provide additional privacy if there is any visual outdoor storage areas to the main streets. And the applicant shall be subject to review of the buildings containing the number of structures, square footage, location, and materials subject to administrative review and approval. With that, that concludes the report for overlay case 4-26-0. Good job.

Vice Chairman? No questions. Mr. Logue?

No questions.

Okay. Gentlemen, I'll entertain a motion to open public hearings case overlay case 4-26-0 as an Oscar. So moved. Second. Mr. Campbell, roll call.

Mr. Becker? Yes. Mr. Lueb? Yes. Mr. Dills? Yes. Public hearing is open at 6.58 p.m. All right.

We'll start off with the developer, landowner. You're more than welcome to speak. I've got to tell you, I have a gut feeling you're not going to have any problems, but you're more than welcome to come up here and speak. Now, since this is a separate case, I've got to swear you in for this one as well. All right. You swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and about the truth, so help you God? I do. Great.

Name and address for the record. 1120 Ferris Road. My name's Dave Flourish. Been there since about 91, 92. Mike helped me out a lot when I moved in because I had no water and no electric, so he's been buddies ever since. When he did his building, he told me about the change in the setbacks. I got really excited because it greatly changes my ability to make my building bigger. When you start setting yourself back from the fence, it kind of crowds things in there. So that's why I'm here.

Yeah, fair enough. What line of business are you in? Law and landscape. Oh, fantastic. OK, so no, I appreciate you investing in Union Township, and we're just happy to help. Sorry it's a little bit of a process, but no, I appreciate you investing in our township. Mr. Brecker? No. Mr. Logan? I'm good, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you. You're all good. Appreciate you, sir. All good. Is there anyone else that's a proponent of this case? Okay, see none. Opponent? All right, let's go and close it. Gentlemen, I'll take a motion to close public hearing overlay case 4-26-0 as an Oscar. So moved. Second. Mr. Campbell, roll call.

Mr. Brecker? Yes. Mr. Logue? Yes. Mr. Dills? Yes. Public portion of this close at 7 p.m. All right.

Any discussion, gentlemen? Seeing none, okay. I will, gentlemen, I'll attend a motion for the approval with modifications as recommended for Union Township overlay case 4-26-0 as in Oscar. So moved. Second. Mr. Campbell, roll call.

Mr. Becker? Yes. Mr. Lueb? Yes. Mr. Dills?

Yes. Motion carries. Congratulations, Dave. Okay, so what we'll do before we get to both zoning cases, they're both kind of similar, kind of. At 8 o'clock, I'm going to have a hard cutoff so we can take at that point a two-hour break, which is in one hour. And then we'll break for five minutes, you know, whatever, five, seven minutes. Also, I want to say this. For those that are against the case, in the event, hypothetically, it is approved, I would like for when you – you don't have to – but I would like for you to speak on maybe something you would like. This is now your opportunity. Assuming it's approved, it might not be approved, but if it is approved, this is your chance to negotiate. For example, in the past, what I've done is I've had the developer over here and I've had residents say, You know, I want a landscaping buffer. I would like a white vinyl fence, six foot high vinyl fence, so I don't have to see these houses or I don't have to see whatever. I would like this or that. And I'm going to tell a developer, hey, I'm going to put this in here if you want me to approve it, you know, kind of thing. So this is our chance to negotiate where both sides win, both sides lose a little bit, and it's compromise. Or you don't have to at all. That's up to you. So when you speak, that's your opportunity to say, hey, if it is approved, I would like to see this, this, and this, okay? So with that being said, and by the way, The floor is yours. You're allowed to talk, you know, as long as you want. Just know, even if we're in the middle of this case, in one hour I'm going to call a timeout, five-minute break, and then we'll come back. So, okay, just so everyone knows. Okay, gentlemen. Oh, no, let's not open it yet. Mr. Flaherty, sir, zoning case 3-26-Z as in Zulu. Go ahead and introduce that, sir.

Thank you, Mr. Dales. This is a request. The name is the Oaks at Ridgepoint subdivision. The applicant is Chris Henninger at 1062 Clough Pike. The action requested is for a total of three parcels totaling 23.63 acres to be rezoned from our one single family. to an R4 single family variable residential district in order to allow for a proposed concept plan subdivision development consisting of 58 lots for single family dwelling units, landscaping elements, entry monument sign, and open spaces. Some land use and zoning characteristics in the general vicinity is residential uses with the exception of institutional uses such as Clough Pike, Baptist Church, and the West Claremont High School to the south. In relation to the 2030 Comprehensive Land Use Plan, it indicates that the proposal is not located within any designated corridor. However, the use itself would be supportive to single family residential character in this area of the township. Single family residential development goals stated within the plan calls for a single family dwelling densities up to four units per acre which this proposal achieves with a gross density of 2.5 2.45 units an acre Moving on to some of the background information. This area has been in the R1 single family zoning district since the institution of zoning. Since then, the properties have been used for agricultural and or residential uses. according to the auditor's site. Some staff review and analysis. I wanted to note that the staff comments have been revised since the zoning commission recommendation from the June 24th meeting. With relation due to the road layout, the new lock configuration shows seven homes being ended in a cul-de-sac off of Ridge Point Drive and an additional 51 homes being accessed off of Clough Pike. to be ended in a cul-de-sac. This differs from the previous plan, which included a through street through Ridge Point. And there was talk back and forth with the zoning commission on whether or not to have it a through street, have a lock-knock box for emergency services. And as we went through the process with the developer, they came up and We came up with this idea of doing the cul-de-sac to complete the street and the subdivision back there off of Ridge Point with seven homes and a cul-de-sac, and then the 51 additional off of Ridge Point. Some additional information with this application is the proposed street and trees are throughout the subdivision with additional plantings being provided. Some of the lots have changed with the new proposal since the total amount of lots have gone from 60 to 58. Some street lighting has been proposed. The lighting shall be consistent with Article 14. An entry monument sign is proposed. Consideration should be taken for the site distance clearance onto Cleft Pike. Lastly, going back to the zoning commission, they recommended five modifications. The fifth modification was the sample proposed home facades. The applicant, we have a proposal from them to pull up with the proposed homes. So lastly, the action required tonight is in accordance with section 650 through 659 of the zoning resolution that the board of trustees is to enter into a motion to approve as recommended by the zoning commission. approved with additional modifications or deny this zoning map amendment and accompanying concept plan as permitted in Union Township Zoning Case 3-26-Z. Staff has made additional recommendations due to the new road layout and lock configuration that per the Horizon 2030 plan to add a pedestrian connectivity between the established and existing Ridge Point subdivision drive to the new development and lastly efforts to maintain the same previous preservation areas which appear to have changed slightly to have them labeled as preserved and to pay attention to the screening to the existing residential areas from the proposed development. With that, that concludes the report for case number 3-26-Z. Thank you, Mr. Flaude.

Vice Chairman, any questions?

Yeah, I do have one. So, Mr. Flaude, hypothetically, if we were to approve changing the zoning from an R1 to an R4, and the developer, for whatever reason, it could be any number of reasons, may choose not to build anything at this time could several years from now new board maybe a new developer maybe not choose to build apartment buildings on this property yes i think that would be a hypothetical that could potentially not an r4 no no no no it's gonna be r3 pd is apartment

Oh, yeah, so. What does R4 allow then? Sorry.

Condos?

Yeah, so if you're asking if you approve this to an R4, they come back, yeah, sorry, I misunderstood the question. So this development, what the R4 variable structure does is it creates a formal plan. So what you are approving is the concept plan in front of you. If there are to be any changes to that, you have to come forward. The applicant will have to come forward with a new set of plans and have a new set of approvals to do any changes from this. That would be adding a lot, changing from single family to attach single family that that would trigger coming back to this board if they were to approve. If you were to approve the art for tonight, the development has to be per this plan in front of you tonight.

Okay, so if we approve this tonight and then, you know, for whatever reason they can't or choose not to go forward, five years from now they decide they want to come up with a new plan, does it revert to R1 between now and then?

It would not, but a new R4 plan would have to go before the board.

Okay. And then so how different could an R4 plan be if it's not this one that's before us?

I mean, the hypotheticals can range, you know, depending on what would bring in, but if they would go from this plan to attached, if they would go above the 58 number, you know, again, it's variable structure, so the possibility to change is...

Basically what I'm going to do is if they change from this plan, it's got to come back to the board. Correct, yes.

It could be a future board several years from now is my point. That's all I have.

Mr. Logan, any questions?

Just a little bit. Mr. Becker, is the concern about action tonight and then develop or not being able to move forward? I guess I'm just confused about the concern. I want to make sure to hear his concern. We're not debating this right now. We're just asking Mr. Flaherty. Okay. I'm just trying to understand his question. No, I don't have a question for Mr. Flaherty.

Mr. Flaherty, so basically let's look at this property as an overhead there. And so... I'm going to say up, because it's not north, it would be south. So up from the property, or I should say to the left. Let's do the left. Left of the property of the square, what is the average lot size? Right there on the left. Right through here? Left, left, left. Outside the property, existing properties. These through here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they range. In the community to the left. So just the ballpark.

So they range. Along Clough here, we do have larger lots. Those were cut out previously, you know, as Clough developed through and then all along. So the existing community back behind that is existing subdivision, especially you see where Ridge Point that is R2. So the existing lots within the R2, there's a minimum of 20,000 10 000 square feet so you're roughly a little bit below a quarter of an acre but you might as well just say a quarter of an acre so those lot sizes uh on the bottom roughly are a quarter of an acre ballpark the ones where my cursor is at here they're around a quarter of an acre okay ballpark give or take a little bit yeah all right and then uh what about for the left These, they vary. They're going to be a little bit larger as they're cut out. I would say half an acre to quarter of an acre. One acre.

That's all the questions I got for you. Thank you. Do you have any pictures of what these houses are going to look like?

Yeah, let me pull up their presentation here.

And by the way, I might be stealing their thunder if they want to show theirs. We've got... Okay. Are they going to be going through their PowerPoint? Is that their plan? Yes. Okay. I don't want to steal their thunder. I'll let them do that. But every single time we have a building, though, I want to see a picture of what it potentially is going to look like. I don't care if it's a shed or if it's a massive complex.

Okay. Fair enough. Okay.

Any more questions for Mr. Flaude? Good. Let's open this case. Gentlemen, I'll entertain a motion to open Union Township zoning case 3-26-Z as in Zulu. So moved. Second. Any further discussion? Mr. Campbell, roll call.

Mr. Becker? Yes. Mr. Logue? Yes. Mr. Dills? Yes. Public hearing is open at 7.12 p.m. All right.

Good, good. Same thing. I'd like to start off with the developer if they're here, or their spokesperson. And then we'll have you come through. Perfect. And then you saw what I had to do, so let me get you in. All right, raise your hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and about the truth to help you God? I do. Great.

Please state your name and address for the record. My name is Doug Smith. I'm with Abercrombie & Associates, the civil side engineer for the project. The address is 8111 Cheviot Road, Suite 200, Cincinnati, Ohio, 45247. And then the floor is yours. Good evening, gentlemen. Also here with me tonight is... Brian Henning and Paul Metzger with Arbor Homes, a big builder in this proposed development. And then also in the back row, next to go back, is Ed Ferugia with Beaver Creek Site Management. They're the developers for the project. So we'd be here to answer any questions you might have. But I'd like to first off and state that We're excited for this development, and we think it'd be a nice addition to the township, provide nice housing. The R4 provides an advantage to allow us to preserve some of the natural features, the existing pond that's on the site, as well as the stream that's to the, I don't wanna say to the south, I guess, and the woodlands along it will be preserved in open space. We have three open space areas, meeting the 20% requirement. We're excited about it. It's a similar lot, similar product as the adjacent residence, as well as the Magnolia Trace development. This is down the street off Shaler. This will provide the same type of housing, which we think is all very successful and has done well in the township. I can say that during the The zoning commission meeting, there was concern about access. We had a through street. Craig, I don't know if you could pull up the old plan. Yeah, let's see. So this is the plan we presented at the zoning commission that had a through street from Plouffe Pike to Ridge Point Drive. The residents on Ridge Point Drive had a lot of concerns about the through traffic and the cut through. At that time, we proposed a gate, some bollards or some things of that nature. So basically, Mr. Wright, Mr. Flaude, Our team met with the county engineer. We discussed our options. And based on the public input and what we felt was going to be best for this development, they developed and reduced the lots by two lots. We went from 60 to 58 units. And then we terminated Ridge Point Drive in a cul-de-sac to eliminate that through traffic. That was acceptable through the county engineer. That's how we kind of ended up with the plan we have today. We do have water and sewer availability. There's water and sewer available to serve the development. I can have Mr. Henning or Mr. Metzger talk about the product if you'd like, if you'd like to know more about the housing plan.

oh let's uh mr rusher any questions uh no but i do want to say that my prior question you know about potential apartments and what the developer could do it had nothing to do with any of you in this room it was really just a hypothetical in my own mind about zoning in general so no offense was intended the only comment i might add to that is is um craig correct me if i'm wrong the r4 it's a variable type housing but it's single family type housing

It's not multifamily. The R4 is a single-family residential type of housing. It's just whether it's single-family or attached is my understanding.

The multifamily would have to be in the PD district. Yeah.

So no matter what, it would be a single family residential product.

I don't have any questions.

What was it? Mr. Luke? No. Thank you for the presentation on it. I'm going to ask a few questions, but I don't know if it's going to be necessary for you or Arbor, the builders. or it might even be for the Ferugia family. But first question is, and if you can't answer it, that's okay. I'll go through and you can answer it. First question, how long was the property on the market until you all bought it? Now, that's probably a Ferugia question. Okay, so the cancer. What's the average ballpark price of these homes? Ballpark. That would be an Arbor home. Roger that. All right. Are you all willing to... add any to work with the residents again in any event we approve this if we don't then this is no avoid but are you willing to work with the residents if they come up and say hey we would like a white vinyl six foot fence to put up there so i don't have to see Any new homes? Are you willing to put up maybe some rolling hills or whatever? Are you willing to work with the residents on that to create buffers?

I can't speak on behalf of that. On behalf of Mr. Ferugia, I know that, yes, we'd be willing to work with the residents. We've already been in discussion with some of them.

All right. Fair enough. And then what about traffic count? Did you all do a traffic count study?

We did. We did a traffic count study. We prepared a traffic impact study, and we presented that to the county engineer, and it's currently in review and being processed. do you have any more information on it yeah it uh it it basically says that no turn lanes are warranted on club pike no improvements are required to club pike and the development is you know the the surrounding roadways are adequate to serve those development with no improvements okay fair enough okay uh mr smith that's all i got appreciate it thank you thank you and then uh uh and then any other yeah if you're part of the development team yeah come on up please i'll swear you in

All right, please raise your hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, anything but the truth, the stuff you got? I do. Just state your name and address for the record.

Edwin Ferugia. Address is 7861 East Kemper Road, Cincinnati, Ohio, 45249. Please go ahead. To address the couple questions you had for us, as far as how long the profit is on the market, I don't know. We typically get things... before they hit the market and then as far as buffering goes we are happy to help whether it's landscaping or a you know artificial buffer like a fence or something like that in a place where it's needed we're always open to that we want to be good neighbors i don't know yeah but uh before we always always allow my vice chair to go first question do you have any questions

The ballpark, and I know this is probably an Arbor question because y'all are building, but do we know the average price of the homes yet, ballpark? All at Arbor. Okay, one more second. I'm sure you probably footed the bill for the traffic count. Can you give me any more insight on that? Because I'll tell you what you're going to hear tonight, and it's probably no surprise to you, is during rush hour times, I drive Clough every single day, so I can personally say, there's times where Clough's fine. Clough's fine. It's not a problem. Then there's times where Clough Pike is a disaster and you avoid it at all costs. However... Whether you all like it or not, that's actually a county road. We don't own that road. That's a county road, which they really need to expand it and probably make it four ways. But anyways, regardless, their concern is going to be the traffic count and folks trying to turn left on Clough at 7, 8 o'clock in the morning. I can guarantee every single person is probably going to come up here and say that. So any thoughts or suggestions on that?

So I don't know the exact counts offhand. However, what I do know about the study is we used a 10-year time period for the study. With the traffic counts they generated, the way the traffic study works and you all may know this so they submit the our engineer who's doing the traffic study submits a memorandum of understanding to the county yeah the county agrees this is what we're studying after that there's a volume submittal and We are our engineer submits, you know, says these are the volumes that we're going to use. The county says, OK, we agree with those volumes. They can either increase the volumes, decrease the volumes with Claremont County in our experience that they typically like to increase the volumes of the conservative matter. So we got approved on the volumes. We did the traffic study. There was no using the ten year period. There was no trafficked in there was obviously there's impact but there's no improvements deemed necessary uh currently they are asking us to stretch that out instead of 10 years to 20 years this was just as of i think a couple of days ago so that's what we're working on right now it's all like it's all i can ask for is you get you got the factual data if they say it's it's good then it's and then that's that's all we got so um i think that's all i got appreciate you thank you thank you appreciate it sir thank you yeah i assume the builders yeah

right raise your right hand and do you swear to tell truth the whole truth about the truth so if you go i do great brian yeah brian henning uh 90 50 center point drive got paper copies if you guys want any um but yeah uh so average price is going to be 360 000 to 550 000. these homes are very customizable by the kind of home buyer so it really depends on what they select ultimately. One thing on traffic is this will be a 55-plus targeted community, all homes are ranch homes, so there might just be a little less traffic coming out of this neighborhood than versus a typical suburban neighborhood with families taking kids to soccer practice and all that. We've got five floor plans. Each floor plan has five different elevations. They can pick a variety of colors. We have a anti-monotony policy where essentially no house next door or across the street is allowed to have the same elevation or color scheme. So essentially that just kind of keeps kind of a design rhythm that takes away the monotony essentially. So yeah, that's about it. I don't know if you guys have any questions for us. Happy to go through kind of our company history or...

anything else you guys want to say mr uh mr becker anything no mr luke i like that destination line it's interesting yeah yeah no it's nice a lot of a lot of communities are looking for that 55 plus housing type okay so so just recap the uh so your target market to sell these homes is 55 plus age range yep uh price range is ballpark 360 to 550 000. And they're all ranch. So basements, no basements? So the customer can select a basement. But basically, they're not going to be two stories, it sounds like. They're all ranch.

They could be. So essentially, a customer can either select to have a basement or a second story. These are the elevations of the home. The second story is essentially almost like half story.

Got it. So yeah. Okay, and then assuming, hypothetically, if it is approved, when are you all planning on breaking ground?

That would be the developer, but we would say as soon as possible. I would guess spring. We are constantly pushing these guys to... That's okay, that's okay.

I think that's all I got. And then, hey, I would... Once the folks come up and speak, I would be prepared to just answer any questions or concerns they might have for whoever is best suited for that one. Thank you, sir. Is there anyone else that is a proponent of this case, that is for this case that would like to talk? Okay. Anyone that's an opponent? Come on up, sir. And by the way, I don't need cards for this one, so you're okay. That's just for public comment. But go on. Come on up. Dave, I'll swear you in. All right, sir. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth of the month of June, so help you God?

So help me God, I do. Name and address for the record, sir. David E. Muse, 1071 Clough Pike. sounds like i need to get in the golf cart business because it's 55 and older that's what's going to be thriving in that community over there you know what i mean i got to start selling golf cards i think so okay thank you to the board of trustees for having this opportunity for the community to speak before you cast your votes on the zoning change from r1 to r4 for the subdivision to be known as the Oaks and Ridge Point. My name is David E. Mews and I am with the Union Township Republican Central Committee. I represent voting precinct T. Yes, it's true, only Republicans voted me in this position in our last primary. I told John Becker, who asked me to join and run for election, that I would listen and try and help with concerns that all voters in precinct T had, no matter what political party they did or not belong to. And now, here is my first representation from Union Township voting precinct T. I, or no one, wants to stand in a landowner's way of selling their land and providing for their family. But what we do ask is for them to think about the neighbors they had while growing up and the person that gave you the land and how they loved Clough Pike. They called home for many years. I first off want to speak about Clough Pike between Shaler Road and McMahon Road. It is one of the busiest and dangerous stretches of road in Union Township. This section is at its peak congestion during school bus pickup in the morning and workers going to work. And it starts all over again when all schools let out and workers are going home. This will make it impossible, impossible for those wanting to leave from Oaks at Ridge Point Subdivision. That traffic will not let them out. We on Clough Pike know because we cannot get out of our own driveways. I asked our police chief, Here today, you remember trying to get in and out of the old Glen Esty High School in the morning and when school let out. A police officer was needed to direct traffic and that is what will be needed to help those at the Oaks at Ridge Point get out of their subdivision. A police officer, five days a week, two times a day, That may be what that part of Club 5 needs. Might be good. But with how the police and Union Township's budget is stretched as it is, we must come up with another answer. The only solution for the entrance to the Oaks at Ridge Point subdivision on Clough Pike could only be used as an enter only heading to Shaler Road. And when leaving the subdivision, only turning right on Clough Pike heading toward Shaler Road. The real answer is to put an entrance to put an entrance to the subdivision on Shaler Road. The developer had concerns about the creek at the zoning meeting. Upon observation and Apple Maps, there is enough land to make the needed entrance for the subdivision. an estimated 500 feet before the creek, more than enough needed. This is the best time to tell the developer that they must put the main entrance to the Oaks at Ridgepoint subdivision there because they will have to pay for it now and Union Township will not have to pay for the mistake later. Just think, 58 homes, mom and dad have cars. One car for the children. That's 180 cars trying to get out on Clough Pike in the morning, going to work and school. The traffic will not let them out because they've got to be someplace as well. So that's 180 cars back up in the new subdivision that was not planned well. The developer wants to change R1 to R4. The Woodmont subdivision that will be behind it, including Ridge Point Drive, is R2. Why not change R1 to R2 and not R4? Mr. Trustees, before we leave here today, I would like to end just a few concerns of those about Gulf Pike. They would like to see, this is my constituents that have gotten with me, and they would like to see a right turn on the red light, that's a three-way light, at McMahon and Clough. They would like to see no turn on red. That would give the subdivision a chance to get out. And that would cut down on the road rage. There's quite a bit of road rage there. The cars, when they try to get out of their subdivision there, cars are upset and they ride their bumper and they two all the way down. Another thing would be great is to change the speed limit from 40 miles per hour to 25 or 30 miles per hour in that stretch from light to light. I hope I've presented all of my constituents' concerns of voting pre-CT well. We want to work with the trustees and the developer on this project. We feel that the matters that we have put before you are not out of this world and can be done where all can be happy. President Ronald Reagan was once asked about his deal-making and how he went about it. He stated, both sides must come away feeling they came away with something. If only one gets everything, then the next time you sit down across the table with that person, they will remember. And Mr. Trustees, before you cast your vote on changing the zoning from R1 to R4, I'd like to speak for 30 seconds before you cast that vote.

Back there. It's not really how it works though, Mr. Mayor. Meaning this is your time to talk right now, then I call up other people.

So it all comes down to safety for our community and for our new neighbors that will arrive when the Oaks at Ridge Point subdivision is completed. That's all we want from our trustees and the developer. If both parties will not work with us to achieve these goals, which I know our trustees are wanting to work with us, and the trustees okay to the zoning change from R1 to R4, then we must do as the law permits. And we have been working on, as a group, in precinct T, It's called a zoning referendum. Once we have our needed signatures on a petition, the matter of keeping the properties at R1 or R4 will be voted on the 2026 November election and be voted on by the people. So that will hold up Your groundbreaking development will not happen.

Thank you, Mr. Mews. Mr. Flaherty, can you throw up a good overview picture so I can see the houses on either side and also the road sun?

Yeah, you want a little wider one?

I just have a feeling we're going to be referencing the map quite a bit. You had one in your presentation that was good. Yeah, that one's fine. Can you maybe just, yeah, that's fine, that's fine, that's fine. Okay, perfect, okay. All right, is there anyone else that would like to talk on this project? Yeah, sir, I see you in the back, come on up, sir.

All right.

No problem, yeah, you're okay. And then I'll just raise your right hand. And, sir, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and about the truth, so I hope you got it? I do. Great. And then just state your name and address for the record.

My name is Scott Sheeman. My address is 1069 Ridgepoint Drive in Batavia. Go ahead. Yeah. Good evening, gentlemen and Lisa. Starting off, I hate to just be an opponent for everything. I was against the new subdivision going through to Ridge Point. So accolades for the solution of having a cul-de-sac. I think that solves at least one of my concerns. So that's on a positive note. Thank you. Concerns that I have are several. If we, can we, is there another, let me shoot this up to you guys moving past. Can I bring, approach the table? That's okay.

Craig, give me a better picture than that. The one you had was fine.

I just want to be able to reference it. That's perfect, yeah. Okay.

All right, the first thing I would want to talk about is the, in the cul-de-sac, having the seven homes. A couple things come to mind here. The first one is, and my house is next to Lot 52, I don't know whether, that's my house right there, and Lot 52 is right here. like fifty-two is uh... one of the smaller lot it's got a fifty eight foot frontage uh... according to the uh... design requirements yet five feet on each side of the of the home which means it's forty eight forty eight feet wide maximum and uh... if you look at the geology topography of the of the land water from this area here flows down this way toward where you have a retention pond slammed and um it the creek starts probably just to the back of my house uh on on the on the edge of the property uh in fact i would say a little bit on on my property and and maybe 10 or 15 feet into lot 52 and it comes down as kind of a wedge that culminates maybe 40 feet, 50 feet behind my house in the beginning of a creek. And my concern is, is if you look at the topography of the land, it all slopes on 52 from the club site down toward my property. And I don't know how you would ever build a foundation to a house without pushing the dirt around in a manner that would move the water towards my house and my property. So that is a major concern, a water issue. You can't walk through that area without waders, even when it's dry out. As you get further down from my house, you do need heavy galoshes to walk through that area. The other concern I have is you do have seven homes in that area, in that cul-de-sac. We have covenants that we had to sign in order to get title to our property. Everyone on Ridge Point, whether they live up to them or not, had to sign the covenants as part of the neighborhood.

For the HOA? Please? For the HOA? Is there an HOA in your neighborhood?

There is no formal HOA. So that whole thing needs to be rationalized and normalized because you're going to be adding seven houses into an area that has defined covenants that someone could legally take a neighbor to task on it because they signed off on it. And then the... My neighborhood's like that? There are things such as even what fences can be used in that HOA, I'm sorry, in the covenants. And normalizing those is really important, otherwise it's going to be real messy going down the road. last item is and and you can see it better on the thing that i passed out there is my driveway is is on the side right toward uh lot 52. i for the life of me i don't know how you would build that cul-de-sac or or anything without blocking my uh blocking me and and i'd like to understand how you would manage that because uh you know i i can move my car down a little bit But I'm not 40 years old. It could be that I need a life squad. The people next to us have had the life squad at their house several times. And we just can't block off that end of the street while things are being built. There could be, and let me propose a suggestion. You know, instead of everything just being what you can't do, the cul-de-sac could be designed and the preliminary design and build coming in off of Clough, Lay it all out, and then when you finally get it all laid out, then before you put the curb and the final street in, that's when you switch it back to Ridgepoint. And manage it properly. I think that's a way to do that with minimizing the pain and agony to the three or four houses down at the end of the street. So that's kind of where I'm at. My concern is the water. How you would manage that water with a 48-foot frontage on a house with five feet on either side in the midst of the beginning of a creek.

um the covenants and uh my driveway that's that's it anyone have any questions mr sheman sheman right sheman yes yes uh vice chairman any questions no mr luke uh not currently machine by the way by the way please i want to commend you because not i don't want to say all the time that's a blanket statement but more often than not, typically residents will come up, no, no, no, no, no, no, right? And you have come up here with a positive attitude with other concessions and also solutions. And so I wrote everything you just said down. And so I just wanted to say I appreciate that. Because I am a pro-liberty kind of guy. I mean, if it's your land, do whatever you want. If you want to sell it, sell it. If you want to develop it, develop it, as long as it meets the township rules. And so I just appreciate you doing that, by the way. Can I keep this for the time being, please? Sure. I've got it on my computer. And then developers, whoever's going to talk, you all need to plan because he's 100% right. I'm looking at this, and I'm looking also at lot number 58 across the street from you, which would be category to your left. I need to hear a plan and what you plan on doing because I will not have this man be inconvenienced whatsoever. I need to make sure that's crystal clear and addressed and for the lot across the street from him. And the reason why you do R4 is so you can not have every lot size the same size because that makes things difficult. So R4 is actually a good thing when it's used properly. And I think these builders are trying to do it properly. However, So that is a small lot size and I do not want dirt or water or you to be in or your driveway to be blocked at all period. So I have your back on that a hundred percent. I know these two guys will as well. So I'm just speaking on their behalf right now for what it's worth. Thank you for pointing that out. So I appreciate that. And, um, and that'll give these guys some times to prep for a response to that because we're not going to allow that. I'm not going to allow that. So thank you for your time. Thank you. I appreciate it very much. Thank you. The, uh, Okay. Uh, anyone else that is a, uh, uh, not proponent, uh, again, against this, against this opponent, geez, what is wrong with me? The opponent of this case, please. All right. All right. Will you please raise your right hand? You sort of tell truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.

So if you got a name and address for the record, miss, can you say your name one more time? Susan do you do that? Okay. Okay. so a lot of us here were at the previous zoning meeting where this was all discussed and oftentimes the question came up what is the difference between r1 and r4 it's it's hard for most homeowners to understand that and most don't and we come to those meetings so we can get facts that's what we count on you guys for so i can tell you that the description of r1 versus r4 that was given by the zoning commission was extremely misleading and highly biased. Okay? And let me give you an example of what they said. In R1, typically, the houses would be on cookie-cutter, half-acre lots. Now, every time they spoke about R1, they used the word cookie-cutter. But with R4, we are allowed to vary the size and shape of these lots. Some can be smaller, some can be larger, there can be fluctuation, there can be diversification, rather than just this cut-out subdivision that we used to see all the time. In an R1 traditional neighborhood, the lots are cookie cutter, and variable means the lots can fluctuate in size. Now, R1 neighborhood, example, Chanticleer Woods, Crystal Creek, drive into one of those neighborhoods, do you see cookie cutter? Do you see unvaried lot sizes? It has nothing to do with that. You want to see Cookie Cutter drive into an R4 neighborhood, drive into Weatherby Farms, drive into Magnolia Trace, nice houses, but boop, boop, boop, boop, boop lots. So the zoning commission said, they said specifically, we are trying to encourage R4s. They kept referring to the Horizon 2 2030 as backing up this ability to build our force. And let me read you from that report, because I'm sure that most people don't even know it exists, let alone have read it. So there's a section in there called Land Use Recommendations, Residential Development. And the report specifically says, this comprehensive land use planning document shall continue to recommend single family large lot residential development as the guiding principle for new family development throughout the majority of Union Township. Now, it goes on to talk about little pockets where there might be the possibility that higher densers might be appropriate. But this is not one of those pockets. And even in the documentation that I received here today, where the zoning commission is saying further, adjacent land use characteristics nearly mirror the proposed development plan. Well, take a look at the township zoning map. What do you see? You see yellow, yellow, and yellow outside of the development for businesses. R1 and R2. There are very, very few R4s here. I mean, so that's not true. Their description of R1 and R2, they're clearly biased. So who here is to stand up for us? Because that's not what the community wants. um so that's my first comment okay my second thing i'm a real estate agent so when i heard when i hear about a new builder that i've never heard of before i'm i'm going to do my homework so at the last zoning meeting they said that the price range for this neighborhood was going to be in the 600 000 plus price range i see they've got that down so did anybody ask Does Arbor Homes build $600,000 houses, let alone $600,000 neighborhoods? So I started with AI, Google, because that's where you start, right? I said, what kind of homes does Arbor Homes build? Nick came back, Arbor Homes builds affordable stick-built single-family ranch and two-story houses featuring open concept layouts tailored for first-time buyers and growing families. Their properties range from budget-friendly starter options to larger plans with semi-custom structural choices. I'm like, okay, that doesn't sound real. So I got more specific. I said, does Arbor Homes build $600,000-plus houses? And the answer came back, no. Arbor Homes does not build houses priced above $600,000. Their business model focuses exclusively on affordable entry-level and mid-range production houses maxing out well below that threshold. It talks about their target demographics. Arbor Homes intentionally develops in outer suburban rings where land costs are lower, utilizing tax incentives to specifically keep homes attainable for first time or moving up buyers. So now I'm getting a little concerned. So let's go to their website, right? What does their website say? So if you go to their website and you look at their mission statement on their website, this is their mission statement. To increase home ownership for those that didn't think they could afford it. Now I'm getting kind of worried about this subdivision. So I thought, okay, let's take a look at where they are in Ohio and what have they done or they built. So they are building in about 20 neighborhoods in Ohio so far. And it really is true. They're in very outer suburban rings. They're in places like Washington Courthouse, Plain City, Lithopolis, Bellefontaine, Vandalia, Tip City, Pequot. New Carlisle, okay? And then I looked at, and this is all information from their website, I looked at what are the starting prices in these neighborhoods. Here they are. 250, 370, 240, 230, 260, 320, 240, 230, 240, 280, 270, 350, 270, 330, 280, 300, 270. Now, in none of these neighborhoods are you going to be able to build a $600,000 house because you're not going to start at $300,000 and put $300,000 into upgrades. I mean, that just doesn't happen. So I said, okay, well, you know, they're headquartered in Indianapolis. So let me look at what they're building in Indianapolis. So they have 31 home sites in Indianapolis and only two of them start above 300,000, one at 300,000 and one at three 50. They have nine home sites in Louisville. None of those home sites start above 300,000. So. Okay.

Can I ask you a question on interrupting you?

Yeah.

I don't know if you ever shopped for a new home to build from scratch. So if you ever, this goes back to a Mr. Flaude issue, because you know all those garbage signs that those home builders put up at all the corners of busy intersections, and you see the illegal signs that are removed in his report. A lot of those are like those home builders, right? Which we hate. We all hate. But I'll say homes starting at $300,000, well, that's literally like a bare-bones home. But once you add the countertops, the special floors, the special, you know, finished basement or whatever, then the price ticks up to $400,000, $500,000, $600,000. So, Mike, I'm not, I'm just asking you the question is, is it, say, starting at building or are these homes currently built and they've been on the market and I'm just curious about that, because you know how the starter package is bare bones.

Well, I looked into these neighborhoods, and the homes were priced around that. Now, even if you get into a $300,000 neighborhood, there's no way you're going to put $300,000 in upgrades into that house. It just doesn't happen. And one of the ways that builders keep their prices low is they use standardized flow plans. They have... volume discounts that they get from their contractors and their providers so that their quality is pretty much all the same. That's how they make their dollar here. So it's extremely far-fetched for me to think that this is going to be a $500,000 neighborhood. and then on top of that they want tiny little lots that are not um like anything else that's around it i've got a real concern now is this the kind of neighborhood that's going to add value to this area and and how do you guarantee that is is that really your question to us yeah to require the board to

require a higher value, higher dollar builder to build here? I just want to make sure I get the question or concern written.

Well, I'm just saying that we all want a neighborhood that adds to the value of the community and not detracts from it. And so from what I'm hearing so far, I'm not seeing this proposal as the type that is going to add to this community. So I'm very concerned and I think you should be very concerned as well. And I know that's why we're all here. So we're not opposed to building a subdivision there, but let's make it the right one. It starts with you and you approving R1 to R4. That's a big step here that just isn't reflective of the community. So I would like to ask you to take that into consideration. And I would speak on the Clough Pike thing, but I think you have enough information on that.

I don't want to interrupt you again. I'm sorry. Are you finished?

I just want to say that with the Clough entrance kind of thing, I think Union Township is getting a reputation for letting builders come in, build whatever they want, forget about what impact it has on the surrounding areas. And, of course, when you bring that up with the zoning commission, you know what they say? Oh, not our problem. That's a Claremont County thing. But it is their problem and it is your problem because you are approving these subdivisions. So you have a great opportunity in this instance to ask the builder to step up. It's going to cost him a little bit more money. That's why he doesn't want to move the entrance to Shaler. But it's going to cost us a lot less money in the long run. So you can do that. You can say, hey, Mr. Builder, go back and change that entrance. you know, and make the builder, when possible, step up and take a little bit of responsibility for the impact, the negative impact that he is having on the community. Let's have builders that do that.

Are you finished? I'm finished. By the way, you don't think about things until they're brought up, right? So this board had no idea. We just didn't think about it. For example, do you remember when we voted on the truck weight and you couldn't have a commercial vehicle in your parking driveway? Silliest and I'm using imagery, I would like to use a different word, but I'm saying silliest rule that we had in the township. You have a minivan, legal, you slap a company sticker on the side of it, illegal, you couldn't park in your driveway, and I'm like, What? Are you kidding me? And so we changed that rule to where, hey, if you want to start your own company and have a pickup truck, and now you want to start your own plumbing company, slap your logo on it, you should be allowed to do that. Now, can you have dump trucks and semi trucks parked in your driveway? No. But we didn't know that until it was brought to our attention, and we immediately, as this board rectified it, changed it so that we allow folks to have more liberty and freedom to start their own company or whatever, right? But we didn't know that until it was brought to our attention. So I did not know that folks thought the, the wording and the explanation of R1 to R2 to R3 to R4 was trickery or playing favorites at all. I don't want that. So this is Mr. Flaherty's lane. So Mr. Flaherty, can you make a note? Let's try to bring it up to look at that, the wording of the differences between R1 to R4 and make sure it's clear cut. I don't want it to seem biased whatsoever. Let's just check it out and look at it, if that's okay. And then I'll tell you this, Mr. Dubac, Mr. Becker voted no on it. Mr. Logan voted yes on a housing development project. And it was funny, because those houses were $500,000 to $600,000, and it was from a different builder. And they have continuity. They have history of building $500,000 to $600,000 homes. him and i got chastised because wait hold on we can't they're like this community doesn't want five to six hundred thousand dollars we want more affordable homes like two to four hundred thousand we got ripped for this and we're like okay and then now and so and so and so uh and so you know if it is 350 so the argument we heard the last this couple months ago was guys this is union township this isn't indian hill or terrace park we don't want 600 000 homes we're like Okay. And then now, and now you're, you're saying, excuse, so you don't, you know, it's, you know, it's tough and I get it. This is what we signed up for. It's tough because we made that decision. You might've liked that decision because those homes are going to be half a million dollars plus. And hypothetically, these homes are not 600,000. They are more 350 to 550. That's going to make you unhappy. And so it's like, geez, no matter what we do, you know, I mean, I don't know that they're going to do 550.

So they referenced Magnolia trace, which is right down the street. Right now, Magnolia trace has not been able to sell new construction over 600. Okay. There's one house, I think out of 60 that sold over 600. Now, this is Drees and Brookstone Homes. They build half a million dollar houses. They build million dollar houses in million dollar neighborhoods. They have a background and they have an infrastructure to support that. They can't even build that high a level of house. How is somebody like Arbor Homes who doesn't have any infrastructure to support that, who's never done it before, how are they going to do it? so i question it i know there's not much you can do about the quality but you can do something about the zoning make the lots larger you know i mean what's wrong with minimum setbacks you can't the only thing wrong with it is you can't stuff as many houses in there That's it.

I understand. You made one comment about, I wrote it down, about some of the tax incentives. I don't know why, I don't get on Nextdoor at all, but folks tell me about it. People will say, oh, another tax incentive, another tax incentive. We have never given out a tax incentive to home builders or businesses. It's just not something that we do, but for some people have it in their brain that that's happened. These folks are not getting any incentive from us. No, I know that. So just so you know. Yeah, I understand that.

But you do give out TIFs. You give out TIFs to apartment buildings and all sorts of stuff like that.

Which, conversation for a different day. And I'll tell you, it keeps the money in-house so it doesn't have to go outside the township.

But it keeps that away from people like that.

You wouldn't believe it or not. That's exactly how they've survived. It subsidizes the budget. TIFs have kept those alive, have kept them alive.

The TIF can go to the physical building, but it can't be used for salaries or equipment.

Let's let Mr. Wright. But that's another day. Does it do it? No, no, no. It's fair. It's fair. And, and, and the record of multifamily timeout. So, so a TIFF is 32nd elevator.

Okay. The TIFF freezes the property value at the base prior to the improvement. All the improvement goes into, it's basically a separate pile instead of the pie being split up 50 different ways. It gets, it all comes to the township. We have obligations to either make the schools whole or provide alternative compensation, depending on what they want. We do both. Aside from that, we have the ability to deploy the TIF revenue specifically in support of safety services, and my May 26th work session presentation demonstrated that we provide more than $3 million annually in safety services funding from our TIFs throughout the township, and we're permitted to do that. It's our largest expenditure from the TIF aside from debt obligations that support things like this building and other public projects and our compensation to the schools.

Can TIF money be used for policemen or firemen's salaries?

They can. It's technically... It can? Yeah, you can use it for salaries and definitely for police capital expenditures. We typically use it for capital expenditures to offset the hit on their levied funds, which are police 9, 10, and 20, because with the salaries... you have to keep track of that and then eventually you basically, there's some, you have to basically refund it and that it's... Because I read that the TIF funds cannot be used for those purposes. You're looking at post-2005, post-2005 TIFs. So those are typically TIFs that are adopted 57097, I actually just sent this to somebody, 570973. CTIFs, which are, I call them area TIFs, not district or parcel TIFs. That's what I call them. Parcel TIFs are specific projects. Area TIFs are larger residential, they're actually called residential incentive districts. We don't have any post-2006 residential incentive district TIFs. We only have, we have 2003s and 2005s. And all of those are eligible to fund police and fire expenses out of that. Okay, good. And then the 570973B TIFs, which are the commercial TIFs, which apartments are taxed commercially, so they pay a higher effective millage rate than a residential property does. I believe in West Claremont the residential effective rate is about 56 mills, and the commercial rate is 67 or 68 mills. So commercial properties pay a higher effective millage rate. For example, I've seen multifamily values as high as $155,000 to $156,000 per door. So a 200-unit apartment complex could be appraised as high as $30 million to $35 million. i think the union was generating more than was it more than half a million almost six seven hundred thousand don't quote me i gotta look it up but it's a lot of money and from that 55 goes to the schools the township retains the other 45 of that under a typical make-whole agreement. And those are used specifically to backstop safety services and to keep the amount and the levy requests lower through that economic development funding.

Well, that's great. And thank you for that information. And that's the kind of information that we look for when we come to zoning meetings, when we come to this, to get the correct information. So thank you for that.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. And I'm done. Good job, by the way. Oh, you're good, you're good. Okay, it's 8.07. All right, let me call for a quick recess. Gentlemen, I'll entertain a motion to recess at 8.05. So moved. Second. Any discussion? Mr. Campbell, roll call.

Mr. Becker? Yes. Mr. Loeb? Yes. Mr. Dills? Yes. For recess at 8.05 p.m.

All right, Mr. Campbell, I will entertain a motion, or gentlemen, I'll entertain a motion to exit recess.

So moved.

Mike?

So moved. Second.

Mr. Campbell, roll call. Mr. Becker? Yes. Mr. Low? Yes. Mr. Dills? Yes. We're back in session. At 8.18 PM.

Got it. Perfect. OK. Thank you, Mr. Duback. We'll move on. Is there anyone else that would like to speak that is against this development?

So come on up. And will you please bring your cards up? I know Mr. Dills said didn't need them, but that helps me, because I'm trying to keep those.

I apologize, but Mr. Campbell needs to write down your name and address for the record. The card's helping, so I apologize for that. That was my mistake.

And the reason we do that is if there's follow-up or something, we need to get back with you. We got your name and number. Thank you.

Please accept my apology for being wrong on that. Appreciate it. No, thank you. No, thank you. All right. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and the book of truths you hope you got?

I do.

Is that your name and address?

My name is Alex Lambros. I live at 1069 Clough Pike. I'm the only resident on Clough Pike that didn't get a notice. on this development. It doesn't matter because I got enough information. I recognize the reality that people have the rights to develop their properties. However, when they purchased the property, regardless of how they obtained it, they knew it was an R1 property. They're asking for an R4, which is Legally they're right, but how it was done is what concerns me. Notifications were sent out. Some people got it, some people didn't. The association didn't get it on the development. And when they made the presentation last month, they had none of this information. Different designs, different, completely. They put the notices out. Did everybody get them? I didn't. Did they put signs out? They put one sign out in the woods, in the subdivision. Nothing on Clough. Nothing on Saber. How will people know what's going on? IF THEY DIDN'T NOTIFY THE PEOPLE. AND WHEN WE ATTENDED THE MEETING, THE ZONING MEETING, THE PEOPLE WERE PRETTY NICE. THE WHOLE BOARD SYMPATHETIC, BUT WHATEVER THE CITIZENS BROUGHT UP, YOU DON'T GET TO SEE IT. NO RECORD WHATSOEVER. NOW, TODAY, WE'RE COMING OVER BRAND-NEW DESIGNS. brand new, everything. We don't know nothing. How can we come up here and ask for something when we don't know? It was never presented to the people. And if you look at your own forms, we all took an oath at one time and another to serve and protect. We're serving the public. The public don't know what r1 is m1 whatever they don't know what it is what the rules are my main concern between r1 and r4 is the spacing between the houses particularly in the backyard r4 allows you to only have five feet for a backyard What are you going to do, shake hands with your neighbor every morning? Those things need to be in writing. It was a complaint about the subdivision. That subdivision road is only 24 feet. It's not wide enough. Now you change the rules, I can identify the problems. on it are for changes once you take a vote here if any changes is done it doesn't come back to you one person makes a decision it's not that comes back to the board and the board votes on it for the changes your own bylaws says one individual does it and they will notify the board it doesn't come back and start all over again for a new and if you look at your paperwork i'm sorry Okay, if you look at your paperwork on 326Z part four, the Township Zoning Commission and the Township Trustee may request other county, state, and federal agencies such as the Claremont County Planning Commission, County Engineer, Water and Soil Conservation, Claremont County Water and Sewer District, and Ohio OPA to review and comment on submitted plans. At the meeting, we ask for storm sewer because on Clark Pike, it does not work. And I guarantee you that. You can drop a gallon of dye in front of our houses and you can dump water and let it storm and it ain't going nowhere. The storm sewers do not work at all. Sewer system, you got an eight inch sewer system on Clock Pike, 60 years old. You got the creek back there with two natural ponds. Do you have an EPA report? We hear a lot of reports coming in. I came to your office to look at them, I can't find them. It's all hearsay. I have to see everything in writing. What I recommend is, because the way the process was done, send it back and give opportunity to the people to look at the new designs. I can't even talk about it because I don't know. This is totally different of what we saw two weeks ago. How can we make recommendations? How can we ask for stuff when we don't know? They didn't have no pictures of houses. They told us they're gonna build up to 6,000 square foot homes on a 9,000 square foot lot. Watch it on TV, on YouTube. It's too many unanswered questions. Stuff that people ask for, You, the board, don't get to see them because nobody wrote it down. They thought it was a big joke about the gate, which is the dumbest thing I ever heard. You're going to put a gate there? Ain't no fence. What's the sense of having a gate? Just to block the street? Then drive around it. It's too many unanswered questions to the public. They're so fed up and they just don't trust you. That's the reality. I recommend send it back, give the people an opportunity to digest it, see what they need, and then come back. We got plenty of time. They already admitted that they won't do nothing until next year.

Mr. Boomers, do you want me to address a few things you talked about? Yes, please. Just so you know, they're not 6,000-square-foot homes. That would be like an Indian Hill-style home. That would be a monster home, just so you know. They're not 6,000. But this is the first. Well, the zoning was first, and then it comes here. And the county won't take a look at it unless the township says, yes, they have previous in their town. That goes for all of Claremont County. So no matter where you were to build in the county, If the township's not going to approve it, vote it down, the county's not going to look at it to begin with. So the first step is here. That's the first step. And then the engineer and the county, those folks look at it after that. So when they approached the zoning, they came with their plans, and then they heard the residents and they had the zoning board's recommendations. That's why they changed it to accommodate the feedback they got to give us these plans. That's why they did that. So the gate you're talking about, they did that for those two guys over there for safety services. that they didn't need the gate. So the gate was actually to help for safety services for that. And then they did away with the gate because they realized they didn't need it. And actually, I thought the adjacent neighborhood didn't want the gate at all. So that's why they didn't put an end cul-de-sac there instead of having a gate drive through. So therefore, the road doesn't go through the neighborhood to the right. just put in cul-de-sac there it was a game but from my understanding the feedback they got was from the residents that live in that current neighborhood they didn't want the gate and so they they basically cut it off that's why that's why the plans are different tonight than they were so i mean you could say you don't trust any of us up here but no no no you don't trust any of us they send the plans first for zonings zoning makes recommendations then they modify them to bring them here and that's what they're doing now so i mean so far everything they've done whether you like them or not as irrelevant, they've done everything correctly up to this point.

Does that make sense? It's as I stated before, it's not a matter if they did, you know, correct the problems or the issues. You had over 30 concerns at that meeting. Not a one of them made it to your report that you got in front of you. Who are we serving? When you met with a contractor, you met several times. Your guideline itself says that you met with a contractor several times, okay? You send a notice out to the people that you're going to do it, but you don't give them any kind of information of what their rights are. Nothing. You know, and what happens is, they say, they attend the meeting, and I tell you, very simple. The only thing everybody got very clear, if you don't follow our recommendation, what we're going to do, we're going to strip the land and put houses on it. You don't blackmail people. He's from out of town. He's coming in here to make a profit. There's nothing wrong with it. He has the rights to. It's his land. But if he wants something changed, he has to cooperate. We asked how the houses look. We didn't have no pictures of, see, what kind of house you do. How can we have input on it if we didn't know? How can we prepare for it? It's an unfair. Now, the bottom line is, the reality is, you can make a choice. And you got a hard choice to make today. Either send it back, vote for it, or turn it down. You know, that's your choice. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes right now. But the difference is, These people don't know what to do next because you're not providing that information, don't you think? You should have a piece of paper, a guideline for every citizen to look at it and say, okay, they're going to do this, but I have the option of doing that, you know, to protest it or support it. You're leaving them out in the cold. It's very simple. Union township, precinct T. The last election for governor, you had 601 people voted for the governor. Either way, whichever party it was, there was 601 people voting. According to your own township rules, to put a referendum in requires 8%. of that vote, that's 47 people. People should know that, that's all they have to do is get 47 registered voters to participate, to put it on the ballot. Now, this is where you come in. Would you assist the people to put it on the ballot, if you vote yes on it? so they can meet the language. They got 30 days to do it. Would you provide that service to the public to put a referendum in?

I think that, I think that I completely understand your personal, completely understand your, your, your perspective and question there. And yeah, you're absolutely right that there's a legal, uh, path for referendum. Mm-hmm , uh, but I also believe that that probably stretches beyond the limit of the government here. I'm gonna ask that question because hold on.

Yeah, I understand.

Is it here? No, here's the question. Like here's the very black and white question with that you'd be asking. if Township Resources can support or oppose a ballot item. And that's a very dangerous, slippery hill that is an issue.

No, I'm not asking for that. I'm not asking whatsoever of that. What I'm asking for is the legal language that you need specifically for Union Township Precinct T exclusively to vote on this one to remain R1 or to change to R4. That's all I'm asking is to provide the proper language.

Clean referendum language. Yes, that's all. So, yeah, and also probably another item there is I don't believe it's just to precinct T. I think it's a, you'd have to collect signatures for the total, was it 35% in the last gubernatorial for the township?

No, no, no, no, no. It's not the township voting.

I'm not here to litigate that. Yeah, but what I'm trying to say is... I've looked at that previously as an issue for residents. I absolutely understand and absolutely have shared that in the past that referendum is a right that residents have. Absolutely. And to make it clear.

Basically, what you're trying to tell me, if I come in as a businessman, okay, and I want something from you, you're going to bend over backwards like you did with them. You sat down. You had meetings with them. You didn't charge them for it, okay? You turn around and wrote up all the designs and the paperwork, okay? And you didn't charge them anything. And now the citizens that be paying your taxes, and most of them are retirees on a fixed income, asking you to represent them and provide them with the necessary tools to defend what? They will guarantee when they purchase their properties. And now you want to change the rules And you know it, and I know it, senior citizens can't afford to fight you. The only thing they can ask is put it on a referendum.

I'm not looking for a fight from anybody, and I'm not trying to change any rules with anybody, sir.

I'm not asking you to change the rules. I'm asking you to use equal rules to both sides. You're leaving one side, the taxpayers, on the cold. And you open the roll, the carpets out on the other side, make it even that's all. And I hope you consider my position and you go from there.

Thank you, Mr. Glenn.

Do you have any questions for me?

Thank you for your time.

Appreciate you. Yeah.

Miss come on up. Just raise your right hand. And then do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so I hope you got it.

I do.

And then just do me a favor. Say your name and address slowly so Mr. Campbell can grab it.

There's a card that I turned in.

Someone has. What was your first name? Margaret. Got it right here. You're good. But we still need it for the record. Go ahead and say it.

I think I just put Margaret Zedan, but legally it's Margaret Richardson Zedan, 1088 Ridgepoint Drive, Batavia 451. Yes, ma'am. Um, uh, this isn't really opposed or for more comments and questions. Um, first I'm grateful for the call to set because my B it might be concerned living on Ridge point. was a road coming through with maybe 100 and whatever number more cars trying to get through that. I do want to make one comment because some of you up there probably agree with me. I'm still very active and I drive a lot. Just because I'm a senior doesn't mean I drive any less. I just want you to know. And my neighbors are in and out of their houses all the time, just as often as the young folks with little kids. I'm sorry. I don't need a golf cart.

I appreciate that.

I just wanted to know. OK. So the water issue was already brought up. It's on both sides of that cul-de-sac. So I think seven houses is going to be a big issue to take care of that so that that doesn't impact. I'm concerned that if... because I've seen this even on Clough just across a little later, you know, just just across Schaller when they put in into a new subdivision there, they really raised the ground and certainly don't want the ground raised in a way that's going to shed water into either other people's yards or homes or the like the Clough Pike residents right now who that water doesn't drain. I'm extremely concerned about another road coming off Clough Pike in the short distance of a light, the distance of maybe a house and a half and the exit we now can take to get out onto Clough. Maybe, there's only about 10 houses between us and the next light. Just to kind of give you an idea. And somewhere in there, another entrance onto Clough. I just think I'm concerned. I think that's dangerous. I just think it's dangerous. If there's a way of doing Schaller, or Schaler, however it's pronounced, that would make a little more sense to me. It seems to have a little more room without some of the difficulty that we're already having. And wherever that new one goes in, there's not a left turn lane. So if they want to turn into their subdivision from there, it's going to be extremely difficult to do that, especially if that's the only way in or out for them. So I'm not certain. There are times getting in and out is difficult. is really difficult and we really depend on those lights. I think someone mentioned about not having a right turn on the red. Because we really depend on those two red lights so that we can get out even to make a right turn without having, and times you're still kind of gunning it a little bit currently just to get out safely. And I know there have been a few accidents right there. I think that's it. I didn't have major, somebody answered the question about the housing. I certainly wouldn't want houses lower than, you know, 350 just because of what, we just got the new evaluations on what ours are.

I know, I know.

And then I also have concerns about they only have to put five feet between houses. For me, that's a big concern as well. That's not enough space between houses. It really isn't. And I grew up and was born and raised in Detroit. I know what closed houses look like, and I know also what a hazard it is if one of them catches fire, how quickly that spreads if you've only got... five feet or less between buildings. So my biggest concerns are the Clough Pike and that, that glad he mentioned the water and the other, and that's it.

Yeah. I didn't get your last name. So I can't, but thank you, Ms. Margaret. Appreciate you very much. Thank you. I'm sorry. Mr. Baker, any questions? No. Any questions? Mr. Logan? No. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, miss. Appreciate you. Okay. Is there anyone else that like to speak? Yeah, please. Come on up, sir. Perfect. Perfect. You got it. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you. And I'll swear you in. All right. Do you swear to the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so be God? I do.

Great. Name and address for the record. My name is Doug Schaefer. I live on 1060 Cluff Pike. And I have the house right there that's affected by all of this. The house right there where the entrance is at. So I've got right there. I've got the house that is physically affected by all of this, which is fine. I just want to say I truly support all this. I think this is a great, great thing. And the last the May 24th meeting, we were talking about plenty of green space. This is new. The prior plans had much more green space, which would have been really nice. There's a ton of green space back there. but there's a ton of wildlife back there um i'm not too thrilled about having a road right beside me but i know what it is it is what it is but we also have to consider what what's the safety of the people that are back there we're all concerned all of us people at the bridge point one word bridge point is concerned about drainage you should i'm sure you guys hear this all the time i'm not even going to bring that up anymore drainage is an issue But to me, the real issue is the traffic on Clough opposed to the traffic on Buck Buxton. We've all driven down both of them. During school hours, traffic on Clough is insane. You can't get out. If it's 745, good luck. Somebody might be nice enough to stop short of you. You've got about a football field. before shaler at my house and then the new streets going to be right there. Um, so you've got to gun it and hopefully nobody's coming. I've almost been T-bone there plenty of times. I mean, dozens of times. My kids have also too, um, every time this is just during school hours. Uh, when we first moved there 27 years ago, it was just a stop sign. They raised up the land. They took all of our shrubs and trees that were blocking the view. I replanted another 40 plus shrubs and trees out there. Now with this new layout, they're going to have to widen the road because people are not going to be able to turn in and out safely. It's a hazard the way it is now with this plan. The only solution that I see is going back to the old plan. Is it possible we could pull up the old plan? So the old plan It has, you have two exits. If you want to go south towards one 25, you have to turn left out of my house or the new subdivision. Good luck with the school. Like I said, 27 years ago, Glenn has seen Amelia. There are miles away now that school is so close that we can hear the the metronome clinking every time the band's playing, which is great. Fully support it. But the reality of it is is Bach-Buchsen has less traffic than Clough Pike. My solution is you either gun it or you turn right on the shaler, you turn right on the Bach-Buchsen, and you're going to pass up subdivision anyways. So the only solution is to go through the subdivision, and then you can turn right onto Buck Buxton and go towards 125. And that way, the people in the new subdivision, the 60 homes there, will have an alternative route besides turning left And towards 1 25, they can turn right out in a box, which has less traffic. You're turning right out of that subdivision. You have a quarter mile towards Shaler. You got another quarter mile before the next traffic light. You don't have 300 feet before the, before the traffic light at Shaler. Like it is at my house. I know no matter what happens, I'm still have to turn right and turn right and turn right. But I'm advocating for the new people and all the realtors that come in, all the contractors that come in, all the minivan moms that come in. They're going to need to safely pull out of their own subdivision. I don't mind it. I'm a wild man. I've done it and get it. You can ask the people that live there, but it's a reality of it all. Um, I just don't get the understanding of it's going to be a slight inconvenience. Uh, and I understand the inconvenience. All of the traffic is going past my house. All of it. And I've had our land got reduced once already. It's going to end up getting reduced again. So that's another inconvenience, whatever, which is fine, whatever. We still support it. But the only solution that I see for the residents, the new residents for this new subdivision, is to be able to exit on the back side of Bach-Buckson to turn right up to 1.5. That's all that I got.

Mr. Specker, any questions?

Mr. Logue? Questions for you guys. What are your thoughts between the traffic from Bach-Buckson in club pike which one's worse you don't have to even talk about it because i know that there's reports and this that any other but you don't have to talk about it i just want to give you something to think about right yeah i see it every day it's a loaded question i know uh no well spoken you know and thank you keep the old plan handy because i'll probably reference it later on tonight uh mr shaffer first off

Fantastic attitude, given the fact that, yeah, I think out of almost everyone, you're probably the most affected, especially since the main entrance is going right by your house.

Yeah, and we still support the subdivision. We love it. I think the homes that you guys have presented, I think they're wonderful homes, and they're somewhat affordable for this economy.

um sorry to interrupt no no you're okay i i just appreciate your attitude and uh do you hypothetically maybe it's shot down but if it is upheld to be voted for is there anything you want specifically for them to do on your property well i'm already building a fence i got a permit to build a fence a couple months ago i'm doing shadow box fence the the good neighbor fence

I'm being proactive on this. But if they do this other subdivision, because we're bending the knee to the fine people at Ridgepoint, I might just buy a bunch of junkers out there and put them behind my house. Why not? yeah i'm joking no no i'm laughing a little comic relief we have to try to make light of life sometimes no that's good okay um um they said they're already going to put shrubs and trees out there that's about all they can do um do you want me to ask him for anything else i'll put it if they want to pony up for some of the fence i'd be fine with that too but you know i'm installing all this it's it's a beautiful fence okay we'll let them look at it whatever but okay fair enough

yeah yep i don't have a problem with it at all again but i think it's a safety issue yeah i understand thank you thank you sir appreciate you very much um okay is there anyone else that is a please come on i saw you first sir then i'll get you you next come on up sir Yeah, please bring that up, yeah, appreciate that. It helps out Mr. Campbell a lot. Okay, then I gotta write it. It's okay, just talk slowly so Mr. Campbell can get you, okay?

Talk slow, okay, so I tell you verbally, great.

Yeah.

You, verbally, I'll do that.

This nice gentleman right here.

You look quite nice. Yeah, so- You look like a nice gentleman.

Hey, let me go swear at you. Love your hair. Absolutely. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so be God? Yes. Great, and then just state your name and address for the record, but- I know, it's a long night, everyone's got the giggles.

Mr. Campbell, it's Yvonne Delgado. I-V-A-N-D-E-L-G-A-D, like dog O.

Got it.

And then your address, sir. 1122 Forest Run Drive. Feel free to visit. That's a joke.

Yeah.

I think there have been tremendous solutions raised to the issues proposed. I don't want to reiterate those. The traffic, the drainage, the people whose homes are directly affected. I came here to be mainly informed, and I certainly was, and I think everyone's spoken very eloquently on those issues. I'm in full support of the solution proposed, the entrance to Shaler, et cetera, very intelligent solutions. There's just one perspective I want to add from the point of someone who owns no property. Now, don't be... misguided by the spring chickens behind me. But I, unlike them, who are concerned of their property and of their existing value, as they should be, it is their property. I myself will one day hope to be in a position like them where I am concerned of my own property. Right now I rent a home at the address I mentioned with four other people. There's five of us. And yes, it's legal. Five of us in one place. We've tried many, many times to buy a home, but because of the prices of the economy, which I know the trustees can't control, we're outbid every time. We pull together our money, we have a handsome down payment. I get a nice corporate job, that's why I'm wearing the shirt. It's not for you guys, unfortunately. But outbid cash every time. Now, this is not necessarily a request of the developer or anything like that. I understand the prices were lowered. This is just a general sentiment that out of all the solutions you've heard today, I think all of them are valid. I just want to throw in my two cents that I think one solution that won't solve anything is raising the prices. I know some people think, ah, there were 600,000 before. And some, as you mentioned, not to make your heads spin, some people want higher prices, some people want lower prices. If I had property in this existing area, perhaps I'd want higher prices. But I want to bring the perspective of somebody who one day dreams to have property in this area to build a life here with my friends in Union Township, where I intend to stay. As you enter, hypothetically, the negotiation phase after this, the one thing I request for you to weigh is of course the traffic, of course the drainage, but raising the prices back to 600,000 is not something I think would solve any of the problems brought here today, and not something that would benefit people like me and my friends who want to establish a future life here. That's all.

Thank you, Mr. Delgado.

Appreciate it very much.

Thank you very much. Eloquently spoken. Thank you, Mr. Delgado. Okay.

Mel, did you want to come up? Okay, Mel, come on up, sir.

Mr. Campbell, do you have Mr. DeWitt's address memorized? All right, DeWitt.

Mr. DeWitt, I'm sorry. Do you just want to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Yes, I do. Melvin DeWitt, 3902 Banks Road. I've heard many things here tonight, and I want to just restate that your first purpose here is to protect the residents. And that means their general safety, their property, and that is your duty. I disagree with one of the statements that somebody made. It's not you, this board here, that are trying to change the rules. It's the gentlemen back here that are trying to change it from R1 to R4. Now, sometime in the past, there's been many people that have looked over and figured out how to zone these various areas. Why they did that, I don't know. But they thought that they were good. And for you to change, excuse me, I stated that wrong, for somebody to try to change those in the middle of the road is wrong. If they need to be changed, they need to be changed. But before something like this comes up, not in the middle of the game. That's about what I have to say. Thank you, Mr. DeWitt.

Appreciate you very much. Thank you. Sorry, I was taking notes. Okay, is there anyone else that would like to speak tonight? Come on up, sir. Howdy. All right, perfect. And then, all right, raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and above the truth, so I'll be God?

I do.

Okay, and then just say your name and address for the record, but slowly so Mr. Campbell can grab it.

My name is Jacob Daum, J-A-C-O-B. Last name Daum, D as in dog, A as in apple, U as in unicorn, M as in mother.

Got it. Please, yeah.

I am the second owner of a 72 year old house. I'm proud that I was able to buy that house. I'm 25 years old. I bought that house three years ago. Most people my age, most of my contemporaries are not capable of being able to buy a house. And if I say I didn't compromise, that would be a lie. It is a project house as an understatement. Certainly a lot of work has to be done to it. That house was built after the Second World War. It was built for a family who bought it, who raised their three daughters in it, who lived in it, died in it, had a whole life in it. It's like an 1100 square foot house. The profound amount of what is being built today, not just here, but all across the country, is homes that are way larger than that, don't fit the scale of that, much bigger, often double the size, and because of that are also way more expensive relative to people's incomes. It is not generally possible to be able to be a father with a stay-at-home wife and a child anymore and own a house. It's just not functionally possible. You have to at least have a two-parent income And then all of the extra problems that come with that, like having to afford child care and plan around that and all the other stuff around that, just to be able to raise a family. And so my problem with this proposal wouldn't be that they're not expensive enough, but they're too expensive, really. I'm very much in favor of the diversity of the free hand of the market. Let developers build. If developers somewhere want to build expensive homes, let them build expensive homes. If they want to build cheap homes, let them build cheap homes. But certainly, as a community, if the goal of the township is to bring in and retain the youth to have a literal future, because eventually, all of the older people in the back are going to die off, and you won't have a tax base if they're all dead. So you're going to need people like me who are willing to set up a life here and live here and pay taxes here and grow the community. And it's very much so impossible to do that when there's nothing that you can afford. And when the houses like mine that are fixer-uppers that someone who was 96 years old died in are very rare to find. When it's impossible to start that future, it makes, why would you live in Union Township? Why not go live somewhere else? Why not rent an apartment in downtown Cincinnati? And if you're gonna not be able to own a house anyway, why bother trying? So I think I would encourage the trustees here to consider and favor development plans that include smaller lot sizes, that include lower-priced housing, that include smaller houses. And also, you have to consider, when the only stuff being built and developed is big houses on big lots, you're telling people, essentially, if you want to own a house, you have to mow this much yard. If you want to own a house, you have to vacuum this much floor. Some people would rather like to have a smaller house and not have to pay the extra heating and cooling costs, pay the extra energy bills. and do the extra maintenance. But that lower end diversity in the free hand of the market is quite lacking. And that's not just because of zoning restrictions, which in and of themselves are already quite crazy restrictive to be able to build smaller stuff, but also because of other people who already own stuff who are worried about their own housing values going not up enough, and then usually often later complaining when the precipitous increase of property taxes also occurs. So I would encourage you all to consider and encourage developers to build more affordable homes for young families that can build and start a future here, and maybe we can actually revitalize America one small township at a time. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Mr. Joe.

Thank you, Jacob. Jacob, have you come up to this podium before for something recently?

I have not. This is the first time I've attended a township trustee meeting. But I've lived in the township for six years now.

Okay. I thought I was recalling that you've spoken before. We might have met before, but not here. Elegantly said. Thank you, Jacob. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Okay. Is there anyone else? That's an opposition. OK. Mr. Builders, developers, I'll bring you back up. And please. And I have sworn you both already in, so you guys are both good to go. And then you guys can tag team or whatever you like to do. No problem.

Wow. Well, hopefully we got some of it down and some of you can answer some of these questions. I'll start off with the connection to Shaler Road. The terrain is very steep. The property really drops down. It's about 12 to 15 feet from the property down to Shaler Road. And it's a very steep grade to traverse. And it wouldn't be practical to put a road to Shaler Road. Secondly, if it was possible to put a road to Sheridan, the creek does come, I think it's on the north side of Sheridan, and it does cross over. That proposed street would be approximately the same distance we have it from the intersection now on Clough. It would be about the same distance from the intersection from the light. But the main reason is not to go to shalers is due to the steep terrain is the main reason. So that's why we we propose not to go to the Shaler Road. I guess with Mr. Sheeman, with his concerns, I'd like to say that construction entrance would come off a cloth. And just as he stated, we would build the subdivision. Everything would come in off of Clough. The only things that we would do would be the sewer and water tie-in onto Ridge Point, and then the paving and curb construction would be coming off of Ridge Point. But like he said, the main heavy lifting of the earthwork and things of that nature, we would bring a construction entrance in off of Clough Pike. His water issues. I'd like to, I guess the best thing to do is if I can, can I approach the board and just show them our thoughts real quick on this, on the plan? Sure. It would be easier to discuss. This is lot 52. Here's the call to say. There's a ridge high point that comes this way. Water drains, you can see the finger drains down into here into this lawn. This point drains this way. There's this finger he's talking about that runs across his property. This is, it's a natural, natural drain. All the impervious area would be collected by the storm sewer run down this way. The only thing, we can do a side ditch down here, and we can put a catch basin in here, pick this up, take it to here, and then we would eliminate that flow from going across this water. So that would answer that question. Okay. Got it. Perfect.

Okay.

Let's see. Um, I'll let you talk about covenants and restrictions on the HOA. Um, I guess the only other point I'd like to make is, is, you know, the property is currently zoned R1 and, um, you know, the property could be developed as R1 access would come, could be, uh, come right off cloth. It would tie into Ridge, uh, Ridge point drive. And no approvals are required. There's no approvals required. Only approval through this board. I'm sorry. Approval through this board or these residents would not have an input on what kind of road would be built from Clough Pike to Ridge Point because it's zoned R1. It's approved. They could develop a community tomorrow and build a road from Clough Pike to Ridge Point and develop R1 lots on it. So what I'm trying to say is the access is really independent of the zoning. We're asking for R4 zoning to build, again, as the two young gentlemen say, more affordable housing. We're trying to take the natural character of the land and preserve the ponds, create a community, create an environment that people want to live in. You know, and so, you know, in my opinion, the access, it could be, the connection could be built tomorrow. You know, so I just wanted to bring that up to your attention. With regards to the traffic impact study, there was a mention of 180 vehicles per day or, We did, the traffic counts are as such, the AM peak trips are 47 and the PM peak trips are 60. Those are minimal, they're small amounts of traffic with relation to the overall roadway system. So I just wanted to make you aware that it's not 188 or whatever was referenced in earlier. The rear yards are 30 feet, they're not five feet. And the other comment I think I had was there will be side yards.

Yes, side yards, ballpark. I know they're different because it is R4, but what's the ballpark?

We're proposing five foot of side yard, ten feet between houses, and that's consistent with what was done at Magnolia Trace. I think unless you guys have any questions for me, I'll let Ed take care of some of the comments that he's going to address.

I don't want to repeat everything that Doug said, but when it comes to the gentleman who lives at the end of Ridgepoint Drive right now, we're not going to block his driveway as mentioned. We're going to be coming in off of Clough Pike with our construction entrance. When we go to tie in that sewer, I believe that sewer is on the side of his driveway. There are ways for us to tie in without blocking his driveway. We can have no parking for our contractors on Ridge Point Drive. I know it's a public street, but we can require that of our contractors. And then when it comes to the covenants and restrictions, I guess, that were filed for their neighborhood, there's no HOA, but I guess they had to sign off on some things. For those seven lots, we would be happy to review those covenants and have our homeowners sign off to adhere to those covenants as long as it's not related to some sort of square footage requirement that they're trying to meet or a building material that Arbor Homes isn't proposing. As far as maintenance of their property and things like that, we'd have no problem having our homeowners sign off on that. Um, but other than that, I will let, uh, I'll let our, unless you guys have questions, I'll let Arbor homes kind of take it over with, uh, the pricing and things like that.

We'll definitely have questions for, cause y'all are coming to say you're all kind of one. So I might have y'all, but yeah, please, please come on up. Oh, I'm sorry, gentlemen. Did one of you have questions for those guys? Sorry, okay. Please, go ahead.

Yeah, so we do have a mission around affordable home ownership. So this home series, the destination series, is our higher-end home. We have an arrival series that we came out with in the last few years. It starts in the low 200s. It's pretty sweet, frankly, in my view. I think the two gentlemen in the back might be a fan of those kind of projects. That's not what we're building here. Once again, so we're owned by Clayton Homes, which is owned by Berkshire Hathaway. So we can borrow money at a lower rate than most home builders. Berkshire Hathaway owns a bunch of different building material companies, so we can buy in bulk from them. There's many different ways that essentially we can bring efficiency to the process and cost effectiveness. because of our scale that allows us to build a quality home for a decent price for American families. And that's what we're here to do. Is there anything, any questions you guys have specifically about the homes?

Nope. Mr. Becker, anything? All right. Mr. Logan?

Sounds very market on American.

I do. I want to ask you, so... S the number 600 was tossed out at the zoning case. Yeah. And tonight that number was not tossed out. So what, what are the prices ballpark of these homes? Yeah.

Three 50 to six, uh, five 50, excuse me.

Uh, we have two, um, so Arbor's at Grand and pond, it's a subdivision up in, uh, south Lebanon. It's our, um, Arbor series, which is different than the destination, but similar, more similar than the arrival. And that's an average of 450, 460 right now. The John Charles Estates in Forest Park is averaging around 450, 460. We're about to open a first destination series community in Lebanon proper basically next year. And so we don't have sales figures for that product here.

I'm going to have questions for all three of you. If all three want to come up, that's fine. Go ahead and stay put. Okay, so the question is, okay, if we leave at R1, which would put you at a half acre, how many houses could you fit there, and then can you just jack the price up?

Honestly, I couldn't tell you that right now. I'd have to go back. talk to our marketing team, see what the market could support.

Well, I'm going to ask you to give me an educated guess.

I'm not trying to come across too strong, but it's kind of now or never tonight.

So, so if we kept it the same at our one ballpark, um, just do what we could do some math real quick park. How many homes could you cram in there? That was the R one, uh, give you half acre lots. And then can you just, can you just rub the price up a little bit to make up the difference?

I could not tell you that because I don't know what the R1 standards are.

Mr. Dales, I do have that number. Thank you.

So R1 is a half acre standard. Go ahead.

So it's a calculation if you take 51 homes. 51 homes, yeah. That's flat. Just taking the acreage of... 23.63 divided by the minimum square footage of an R1 lot, which is 20,000. That yields 51 homes.

But they couldn't do that much because you have to make way for roads.

For roads, yeah. So you're looking at 40, 45, 44, 45 homes. Is there a lot with minimum? Yes. Yep. 100. 100?

Yeah, we don't build on 100-foot wide lots. The development cost is too much.

Okay, fair enough. Okay. I know the terrain is not the best, but these folks, you hear them loud and clear. And actually, it's really not. It's really not their concern or my concern. The concern is the residents are going to be moving into there. It's going to be difficult for them to get on a cloth. Yeah. Um, I think you can hear everyone avoids cloth, but we can avoid worst part is it's a County road. we can't do anything to that road, even if we wanted to. And really, then you put a center lane there, at least put a center lane there so people can turn left, get in the center lane, then merge over to the right. At least do that. But regardless, that's a conversation for our county, not for Union Township. So my question is... What can you do to make Shaler happen, to put the entrance and exit there and reroute this plan to make it happen?

I'm going to turn that over to the developer. That's why I said maybe all three of you all can come up.

Is there a question?

It's been an emergency response for me. I'll step out.

All right, so appreciate it if nobody caused any problems because obviously our chief of police isn't here. Don't beat us up. But okay, so hey, is there any chance you can still make your money, do what you want to do? I know the terrain's a little rough, but make it happen to exit out of Shaler. Is that possible? And can the township work with you folks to make that happen?

it's not cost effective to go that way just okay this terrain is just too steep and secondly there's a 12 inch public waterman that runs along the up on the ridge top there that would require more cost uh to relocate that water line got it got it um all right so to go back to

And the reason why you adjusted your old plans to your new plans now, is that because the folks in the neighborhood basically didn't want to drive through traffic? Is that correct?

That's correct. OK. We lost two lots.

Yeah. Is there a way? All right, no, fair enough. OK, all right. Got it. OK, what I want done, and you all may want to talk about this before we vote and give us your opinion, is for the front house. So Mr. Schaefer, he's the one that owns the nice, beautiful house in the front of your house there on Clough. I would like for you all to take care of his fence. Can you all do that?

Yes, I was actually, I meant to talk about Mr. Schaefer when I was up here, but yeah, I'm happy to work with him.

Out of everyone, now the gentleman next to lot number 52 is affected big time, but out of everyone, everyone is entering and exiting by his house. He's the one that's affected the most, and honestly, I can't believe how positive he was, because if it was me, I would be 100% against him if I was him. So I want you to take care of his fence kit. Can you do that? Second part is... All right, here's the part where you may not like it. I need you all to discuss this part. So how wide is lot 52, which is the one closest to Mr. Sheeman right there at the end? Ballpark, do you have a?

It's 60 feet wide.

OK. Yeah, and then how wide is lot 53, the one right next to it?

If you're asking me if I can get a lot next to Mr. Sheeman a little wider, we can do that. We can accommodate that. Do you want me to get 65 feet? I can make it 65. What I would do is I would increase the setback on the cul-de-sac a little bit. and was able to ship those lots around and and pull some distance out of the lots in the back of the cul-de-sac and make mr that lot next to mr scheman wider well and and uh i'm surprised that the homeowner by lot number 58 is not here so i don't want those two residents affected at all yeah he i mean his lot's a little wider now anyway i can tell you how wide his lot is

But I do not want these two residents affected at all, at all, zero, none, non-negotiable. So I don't want any dirt in their land that don't affect their property. Any drainage at all, no dirt, I don't want it. And I'll tell you, our zoning inspector, people either love him or hate him, but he will be on this. And so can you eliminate lot number 52 and still make due and only put six homes around the cul-de-sac?

I don't want to. Obviously, we've sacrificed two lots from our initial plan to make it a cul-de-sac. I mean, I would prefer to keep the lot, obviously, and work with the homeowners on not affecting them. That's really what I would do.

Work with them in some way. You can make it 65 feet?

Yeah. OK. I think that's all the questions I got. Mr. Merker, do you have anything for these guys? Mr. Logan, do you have anything else?

I like the questions you're asking, Mr. Dills, as far as the sacrificing of additional lots. I was just pondering the the previous plan and the road all the way through and the sacrifice of those two lots that you're talking about. But I think that on total more homeowners and Ridge point would not be happy with, with a road going all the way through, but it sounds like it alleviates more traffic concerns that, uh, Mr. Schaefer shared. So I thought that was a pretty valid point, um, for the traffic concerns that everyone has. and the concern that you have about eliminating two lots or so and them not wanting to eliminate four lots in total so i'm saying on balance a road going through and instead of eliminating four that he's asking for just eliminate those two that are closest to mr sheepman and the other gentleman so that was just a a thought happy to hear and anyone's comments on that. I don't know if you can track on that. You like that concept? Lot 58.

How wide is that one?

As they're looking at that.

It's got a radius, so it's impossible. It's 35 feet wide in the back. At the setback, it's 70 feet. But what we do is,

The house is approximately 60 feet deep. So at the rear of the house, we maintain the minimum 60 foot. So if you go 60 feet back, we're we're at 60 feet. So again, we could work with the setbacks on lots 54, 55, 56 and 57. Make this a little larger. There's lots a little pull them in a little bit and get some additional

uh space for lots 52 and 58 and make them 65 feet each we could do that okay yeah okay fair enough yeah go ahead no that's i mean that's not that's another that's another answer the same question so um i don't have any other questions yeah just just there was a couple things in the community that was brought up um and that was following following the rules or changing the rules mid middle of game um Ohio Revised Code 519.12 essentially gives you guys the ability, any landowner, to amend or bring forward plans like you're bringing forward today. So that is kind of the rule book that as landowners, and everybody has that right. Has the township covered any of your expenses given you? Have we given any tax abatements? No, no tax payments. We do. Have we ever given any tax abatements? No. Okay. I just, just to clear up things in the community, because a lot of re a lot of residents, rightfully so place a lot of frustration and anger with with, with taxes and their costs and associate it to poor judgment, decision-making that maybe goes on, um, that they perceive anyway, and other communities. And, and, and so we have to try to be clear about what it is that we're actually doing. So no, we've not covered any of your costs, not giving you any tax incentives. We're not giving you any tax abatements, um, and you're following state code. and we are following state code by hearing from you. Okay, I'm good, thank you.

So the traffic calendar was done. Was any of it done during the school year? Because I'll tell you, West Claremont's not too far from your location. This is why everyone's, right now it's not awful on cloth. It's not great, but it's not awful. But when school opens up, gosh, is it next week or this week? Next week? Next week. We hate Clough Pike. We hate it. We hate no one wants to drive on it. So so when was the traffic study done and what was the school taking into account?

The school was taking into account, but I cannot tell you when the trip. I was not the traffic engineer for the project, so I cannot tell you. If I had to say, I'd say it was not done during during school. School was in session.

Okay. And West Claremont doesn't have busing at the high school, right? So more cars.

If they use like a average. Okay. Okay. Perfect. I think that's all the questions that we have. Anything else? Okay. Okay. Fair enough. Okay. Thank you, gentlemen, very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Okay. All right. Last call. Is there anyone else that would like to speak on this before we discuss and vote? Okay. Come on up, sir. Please. Go ahead. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and let the truth soak your gut? Yes, I do. And then just clearly state your name and address for the record.

Chris Miller, 1072 Ridge Point. One thing I wanted to bring up just real quickly is we're talking about how the traffic is bad on Club. I exit out of Buxton, out of our neighborhood all the time, and it's just as bad during school when people, it's lined up all the way past Shaler. people going in and out of the neighborhood. You can't make a left turn out of there. Same thing with rush hour in the morning. So as far as the traffic being heavier on Clough or heavier on Buxton, I think it's equal, because I drive that road every single day during rush hour, and it's extremely busy and backed up. I mean, you can be backed up all the way to Clepper on rush hour, okay? So I just want to let you know that, you know, having this plan there, I like this plan with the court. You're having at least seven homes there that are exiting out our Buck Buxton way, and the rest of the people will be exiting out of the club. Now, it is tough both ways during the course of the day. Just want to make that point, make that point clear. I know we're not talking about Buck Buxton much, but it's just as bad on Buck Buxton during the school day.

Fair enough, yeah. Appreciate you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Okay. Is there anyone else? Are you, are you, are you wanting to talk or no? Oh, okay. No sweat.

Okay.

Yeah. It's okay. Is there anyone else before I close public hearing? Yeah. Yes, ma'am. Yeah. You got, you got to go to the podium, please.

Come on. How can we do a traffic study and nobody knows what it said?

Well, we know what it says. We just don't know what time of year they took it. I mean, July, this month, okay, July, okay.

And, I mean, really, we're asking questions about the traffic study, and they're like, well, we don't know, we don't know. I just think we should have more information on that.

No, yeah, I get it, I get it. Yeah, I understand.

So with the traffic study, no one in this room is a traffic engineer.

Right.

The county engineer is the traffic engineer. The County engineer has looked at the traffic study. So they have a certified traffic engineer that provides the County with a study. This is how typically goes. The County looks at it. They look at the assumptions. They look at the volumes. Sometimes when they do a traffic study, they will take actual numbers and then they will take background traffic volumes. And they have those counts. They pull from okay. I, they pull from ODOT. They pull from local County counts and then they make assumptions based on the behavior. of the existing traffic and then based on the proposed traffic and then they forward that to the county engineer's office county engineer's office looks at that and makes a determination as to whether additional improvements are needed or not needed and that usually there's a threshold depending on existing traffic existing subdivision whether it makes a connection or not the traffic assumptions that are that are coming from the new development and that's where they make a determination as to whether additional improvements are required specific to that project.

And so they said no additional?

The county said this configuration results in no additional improvements.

How come there was never a counter on the road?

Hold on. Dave, Mr. Meeves, you've got to come up here and talk if you want to talk.

okay well so a couple of reasons so the county already has counts related to bach buxton and shaler because they've had to study all this area for the bach buxton shaler roundabout projects which are supposed to hopefully let in 27 and i think there's been public comment period they've had that open for public comment I know the county asked us about some fire AMS concerns about that project about access and whatever so they're working through that federally prescribed process so the county has counts they have existing traffic counts they take traffic counts throughout the year when I work for the city of Loveland they had traffic counts they have traffic counts on all parts of the road they have a very sophisticated data set the county looks at traffic all the time. They count it. Okay. I counts it. Oh doc counts it. County engineer counts it. And the other thing is the counters. Are you thinking about the little strips? They don't use those anymore. They use camera counters.

They're like laser beam cameras.

You wouldn't see them. They're very small. They don't use, those are old school. I I'm with you. When I see those, those are old traffic counters, strips.

My grandparents have owned that house that I live in since I was 14 years old. I've sat on that porch, well, pardon me, since I was 12. I'm 64 years old. I can do any traffic study better than any of you.

Any of you.

And that is the most dangerous stretch of road I've ever seen. And I've never seen a camera. I have never seen a leprechaun out there counting. OK? And looking up at this, you only got one way in off Clough and no way out. You let a gas leak or something, and that subdivision needs to get out of there quickly. Best of luck. There's no way to evacuate. And he says, oh, I've got to cut 12 feet, shave it down. I thought he was an engineer. I'm not being sarcastic. It's OK. It's OK. He's got 12 feet to cut down to go on Shaler. I mean, I'm getting a little upset here. I got 11 gram babies. We got people on that street. That's dangerous. Chief, I hope you get two officers out there like you did at Glen Espie High School because we need them. OK.

Is there any other discussion? Okay, now close. I can't.

Is that right? If it was 35 miles an hour, and it's 40 now, and people, with it being 350 feet from the traffic light, they're blasting through there. They're trying to make the traffic light in both directions. So they're going 50, 55. It's like pulling out on a 32. I understand. So you're exactly right. If the speed was lower a little bit, that would help out a little bit. Fair enough.

Okay. All right. Is there anyone else? Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. All right. Hold on. I lost my agenda. All right. There we go. Okay. The gentleman will entertain a motion to close the public hearing for Zoning Case 3-26-Z as in Zulu. So moved. Second. Mr. Campbell, roll call.

Mr. Becker? Yes. Mr. Lowe? Yes. Mr. Dills? Yes. Public hearing session is closed at 9.31 PM.

All right. Gentlemen, it is now time for a trustee discussion. Vice Chairman, sir?

Mr. Chairman. He knows what I'm going to say. I guess I'm a broken record. I've been saying it for five years. I have never voted for a housing development. And there's a couple of reasons for that. One of which, a lot of what we heard tonight, a lot of the grievances, it's all part of it. Part of it also is is I value our zoning that is ER, that's estate residential. Was that minimum two acres, I think? Estate residential and R1. And I don't want to see that diminished. So unless there's a compelling reason, I've never said no, never to a zoning change. I've never said no, never to a housing development. But in my mind, there's got to be a compelling reason for me, I guess, to go against those values that I hold, the values many of you all hold, and the platform I ran on when I ran for this job five years ago. What's that? Go ahead. So with that, Mr. Chairman, I intend to vote no on this.

Mr. Luke, sir? Heard a lot of eloquent speakers tonight. I've got four pages of notes. Try to balance the state code of what landowners are able to do with their land and bring that forward. I know we've been asked to basically deny based off of the pricing. It's nothing we can set. We can't determine the pricing. We can't pick and choose winners and losers. I believe in American values and free market. And what I see what's presented before us is a landowner choosing to do with their land and trying to work with the community where they can. where, where the community members live on their land. And, uh, we've seen great, um, I think interaction commentary by like Mr. Schaefer, uh, very, very impacted, uh, by this right there on Clough Pike. Um, and the developer. wanting to work with Mr. Schaffer for that screenage and the fencing. And as Mr. Wright eloquently spoke, we're not the traffic engineers, we don't have the engineering authority. That is not something that is in our jurisdiction and power to be able to do. Other residents here may, may agree or disagree with perspectives shared tonight. And absolutely right, there is a statutory pathway to follow the referendum, any type of vote, and hear from the community, and I'm all for that. That's exactly why I was elected and am in the position to try to balance the fine art of governing, which is not just black and white, and you don't get to just be black and white when you're trying to govern. It is complex. At times, I wish it could just be very simple. At the same rate, I wouldn't want to just give the landowner a very easy way to come to the township and earn costs. But is also right also taking care of being conservative values for you, the residents and where time and resources go. Um, so with that, it's pretty clear, uh, that there's a plan that is ready to move forward, uh, tonight, um, that has been presented. So I think that's the last of my, my, my comment, uh, to it, Mr. Dills.

So, uh, Mr. Baker, one question is, uh, so Ridge point drive that, that neighborhood right there, and then all the houses to the south of that picture. And based off what you said, you would vote that down as well. So half these folks in this room wouldn't have a home if you were their trustee. Because those lot sizes are the same size. And actually, they're a little bit smaller than the cul-de-sac. Now, the rest of the homes are a little bit equal, maybe a little bit more. But the cul-de-sac ones are actually a little bit more than the rest on Ridge Point as far as land area. So you would have voted all those down to the right and to the south based off your logic.

Yeah, they would have built it on R1 instead.

True, yeah. I wish they would have been able to afford it at the time based off that because obviously more land, more cost.

More parking on the street.

That's true. Yeah, that's true. So I'll say, I've said this almost every time we have a housing development come in, whether it be multifamily or in this case, single family residential. One thing that when it comes to housing, Mr. Becker and I, and of course, Mr. Logue, we all agree that we do not like multifamily. We don't, we don't, we don't, unless it's a mixed use. And there's only one apartment that I voted yes on. It was because it was mixed use, meaning first floor retail and second floor apartment buildings. That's the only way I would ever be considerate right now at this point. And so, you know, when we got elected, residents said we need more middle class single family residential homes. That's been clear. And it sounds like there isn't really that many people against this development. It's just the fact that it exits out on Clough Pike, which I happen to agree with everyone because I drive Clough Pike twice every day myself. So yeah, and it's unfortunate because pre-COVID, $200,000 to $250,000 was your average middle-class nice house, and that $250,000 has now become, gosh, $450,000, $500,000. But this isn't going to attract riffraff. I mean, you're not going to buy a $500,000 house and cause problems in the township. You're just not. This isn't affordable housing, meaning Section 8, it's... It's a good development. I do hate the fact that it's on cloth. I hate that. I hate it, capital H, hate it. I don't like it at all. But it is a good development. So gentlemen, I both want you to hear this. As far as this, I'm going to put in here my contingencies that lot 52 and lot 58 need to be 65 feet wide. I'm also going to include that they need to pay for Mr. Schaefer's fence completely. So just so you know. It doesn't really affect you, Mr. Becker, but just so you know.

All the motion would include that.

Yeah. Yeah. Say it again.

When you wrap up, I have one comment or question. yeah that's all i got mr wright is there a pathway for the developer to pursue a special assessment on these homes i don't know if it would generate enough for traffic improvements on cleft pike but

So the answer is maybe. It all has to do with the amount of the construction cost. And I know there have been other neighborhoods where a special assessment district has been formed. And again, for the benefit of the audience, a special assessment district means the people in the development are paying extra. They're paying more. into a special assessment district over a period of time to either backstop bonds or reimburse expenditures or to provide funding for future improvements. And so there is that mechanism.

Do we do that before and after? It's an after the fact. It's an after the fact.

It would not be really germane. There are avenues if the developer wanted to do that. Road improvements are very expensive. I will just tell you. I don't remember the number for the box books and roundabouts, but they're creeping up on $12 million. So that gives you an idea.

What I will say before we wrap up is I don't want one single complaint from the two neighbors living next to lot number 58, lot number 52 at all. I appreciate you putting the cul-de-sac in. I think that appeased the folks at Ridge Point. Yeah. OK. We good? OK. All right, gentlemen, I'll entertain a motion for the approval of Union Township zoning case 3-26-Z as in Zulu with modifications as recommended, including lot 52 and lot 58 65 feet wide and a fence fully paid for for Mr. Schaefer.

So moved.

Second. Any further discussion? Mr. Campbell, roll call.

Mr. Becker? No. Mr. Logue? Yes. Mr. Dills? Yes. Motion carries.

Okay. Moving on to our second zoning case of the night. It'll be Union Township Zoning Case 4-26-Zulu. Mr. Flaude, you're up. Go ahead. We'll wait until the folks access. Thank you, Mr. Dills.

This is for a zoning map amendment for 4-26-Z. It's called Bishop's Grove Subdivision. The applicant has submitted an application requesting that two parcels totaling 4.77 acres be rezoned from R2 single-family detached residential district to the R4 family variable residential district in order to allow for the proposed concept plan subdivision development consisting of 18 lots for single family dwelling units landscaping elements screening entry monument signage and open spaces Some land use and zoning characteristics. The current land uses in the vicinity are mostly consistent of residential uses with the exception of some institutional uses such as the church across the street and Crocker Auto Parts the West. All adjacent parcels consisting of the R2 family detached residential in the area. The adjacent Willowbrook and Shepherdwood subdivisions consist of lots with an average width of 70 feet and a depth of 130 feet. With the Horizon 2030 land use plan indicates the proposed development is not located in a designated corridor. However, the R4 district allows for creative design yielding the greatest green space in retaining vegetation compared to the traditional zoning. The square, the single family dwelling densities are up to four units per acre. and the proposal readily achieves that through a density of 3.77 units an acre moving with some background information the subject properties The subject properties have been located in the R2 districts since the institution of zoning in 1959. The principal structure was built in 1937 according to the auditor's site and has several nonconformities. In addition, these properties have been in violation of the zoning resolution multiple times in the recent past. and has been resolved by the zoning inspector. Some staff review and analysis of the application shows that the proposal yields the zoning map and conceptual plans are consistent with the R4 district regulations and adopted single family use recommendations. The there are 18 single-family housing lots located within this subdivision with a width of an average lot of 50 feet at the building lot setback line and 100 feet in depths. Some of the open space, there are four additional lots to be dedicated totaling approximately 1.39 acres or 29.2% of the total site to be maintained by the HOA. landscaping buffering screening and pedestrian access is included with a 36 inch high mound consisting of white and white and pine trees and has been proposed along the adjacent properties to the north and south The areas that have been indicated here with vegetation should be labeled as preserved. The installation of a sidewalk should be along both sides of Bishop's Way and along the Shepherd Road as consistent with the 2030 plan goals. Some lot configuration and orientation. A minimum setback should be set for the proposed lot to ensure Enforcement with the zoning is consistent throughout, and a signage package should be submitted so the proposed monument signage can be in accordance with Article 9 of the zoning resolutions. The Zoning Commission recommended approval for the site with seven modifications. This was unanimous in case number 4-26-Z. And the action required tonight is in accordance with section 650 through 659 of the zoning resolution that the Board of Trustees is to enter a motion to approve as recommended by the Zoning Commission, approve with additional modifications, or deny this zoning map amendment and accompanying concept plan as presented in Union Township Zoning Case 4-26-Z. And that concludes my report.

MR. Good job, Mr. Flaherty. By the way, for all you folks that have been waiting for this zoning case, just apologies for the delay, as far as I know it took. But no matter what, I like to get every single person a chance to voice their thoughts for what it's worth. Okay. Vice Chairman, any questions for Mr. Flaherty? No. No, I'm good. Mr. Logue? No, I'm good. Thank you. Mr. Flaherty, you mentioned HOA. Is that a new HOA or is it going to be a part of the existing neighborhood there?

It would be a separate HOA for this subdivision alone. It would be created in the deeds and covenants for these two properties in whole. Perfect.

And then the houses to the left and the house underneath, ballpark, what are those average on those lots?

The existing homes, those are in the R2, so they would be around the quarter of an acre lot. Yes, correct. All right.

Okay, perfect. That's all I got. Okay. Gentlemen, I'll attend a motion to open up public hearings zoning case 4-26-Z as in Zulu. So moved.

Second. All right.

Any discussion? Mr. Campbell, roll call.

Mr. Becker? Yes. Mr. Logue? Yes. Mr. Dills? Yes. Public hearing is open at 9.47 PM.

All right. And first thing is we usually have the proponent up, so it would be the developer, if you'd like to come on up. And then I will swear you in. You swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so be God? I do. Great. Name and address for record, sir.

Tyler Gibbs, Maddox Development, address is 4026 Buck Buxton Road, Batavia, Ohio, 45103. Mr. Kim, would you get all that?

I got it. Perfect.

Okay, go ahead.

I'll take that, too.

I'll get it to you after. Okay. So Maddox, a little bit of history on Maddox Development. Maddox Development is local to Union Township. We're located on Buck Buxton Road. own several commercial properties in this township, including the building that we worked out of in the Kennedy's Land, the shops at Kennedy's Landing. Maddox Development is also responsible for building several truly affordable houses in this township since 2018. Some of those houses are on their second owner, and they sold for $335,000. We sold them for $315,000. Maddox Development is not the builder in this case. We are developing it for other builders. So what Maddox Development looks for is we look for infill lots. For example, we did on Traction Lane over by Speedway on Traction Lane. There's an infill lot there. We split it into two and put two houses on it. We also look for troubled properties, I guess you could say, houses that may have burnt down that we can tear down, rebuild and redevelop. So that's kind of our specialty. And so this particular lot came up. I let it be. It was for sale for two weeks before I before I looked at it. It was still available. So we looked at it and this particular lot fits all of our requirements that we look for in a development. It is the house is abandoned. There's nobody living in it. As Craig said, there's been several zoning issues with this lot in the past few years that have been resolved. But this is what we look for. We look for these kind of lots and clean it up a little bit. So we came up with a pretty decent site plan. If you ask me, I might be biased. 18 lots. It is currently zoned R2, so the density is a quarter acre per lot, which in this case would be 20 houses or so. Um, and so we hit 18 and we also, um, were able to design this to have green space all the way around the entire perimeter there, the backside and the, uh, I believe that's the west, uh, with a mound. We have a green space in the middle with a gazebo, um, obviously a monument sign. We have two retention ponds and one detention pond, um, to help with drainage in the area. It's a relatively flat lot. And so Carl Hartman, he could not be here tonight. He fell ill earlier today. But he had drawn up a very good site plan for this lot. So that's all I have for right now. Anyone want to answer some questions?

Mr. Pressure? No. Mr. Logan?

I'm good right now. Thank you, Mr. Maddox.

Or Mr. Gibbs.

Mr. Gibbs.

Maddox is my middle name.

the uh regardless how the vote turns out uh you know appreciate you invest in the township because you own kennedy's landing and also your other business is located here as well right yeah we uh we're located on buck bucks and we also own the building that we're in the old kdp electric building fair enough yeah yeah appreciate your investment here in the township yeah thank you very much but uh no questions for me at the time appreciate it yeah thank you sir okay is there anyone else that's a proponent of this case uh are you for this case yes oh please yeah yeah please come on up yes All right.

You got it. Thank you. All right. Appreciate it.

Thank you. Appreciate you. All right. Let me go and swear you in. All right. You swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. So what have you got? I do. Great. The floor is yours, sir.

My name is David Lamb. My address is 1192 Emory Ridge Drive. That is a Batavia address. I am speaking tonight from the perspective of the family trying to sell the property. So I am the son of one of six siblings. who inherited the property when my grandmother died in 1995, we have been through about 10 years of probate complications. We just reached the point this winter where we could list the property. The family is not in a position to maintain the property. We are aware that the house on that property is an eyesore. that some of the other debris on the property is not only an eyesore, but it's a safety hazard. If anybody trespasses, we know that for the good of the community, this property needs to move on. The family's not capable. Um, so from a seller's perspective, we're looking for support in moving this property and letting everybody in that community move on. Um, weeks ago was the zoning committee hearing we heard a number of different concerns from the local the neighbors of the area one of them was traffic i think this this uh the trustees have established the traffic concerns are more in the county's area so i would say you know any concerns with traffic kind of be deferred i would you know i'd hope they would go The other concern was related to the use of the property. One of the things I learned in the zoning, and it's funny, we've had a lot of conversation about R1, R2, R4, these are things that are foreign to any of us that don't deal with properties. One of the things I learned in the zoning committee meeting was that the plan that the developer has come up with actually meets the density requirements for I think it's the R2 rating, the current rating. So even though they're applying for R4, the density rating, when you factor in the green space, actually still meets the current zoning for that property. And I can defer to the zoning committee for clarification on that. I'm by no means an expert on that. So from the seller's perspective, is we have a need to move the property. We're looking for improvements for everybody on Shepherd Road. And then as long as the density requirements, the zoning requirements are met, we're hoping there's no obstruction to selling this property. One last point I want to make, just noting it, I believe, I assume that a petition that was turned in to the zoning committee with about 125 signatures was pulled together by one of the competing bidders. We also learned in the zoning committee meeting that the information that was given to a lot of the signees at the time, not intentionally, but because of a misunderstanding of zoning, a lot of the people that signed that petition may not have gotten accurate information on the zoning rules. But my concern is that the person driving that petition could be using that to keep the sale open and prevent the sale to the current developer. With that, I'll close.

Did you have any questions for Mr. Lamb? No.

Mr. Lee, any questions for Mr. Lamb?

Not currently.

I appreciate your speaking.

By the way, sorry for your grandmother and her passing, by the way, Mr. Lamb. Okay, is there anyone else that is for this case that is a proponent? All right, seeing none, I can kind of tell where the room's at. Okay. Is there, is there... All right, if anyone that is an opponent of this case, that is against this case, please come on up, sir, yeah. And... Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, yeah. Okay. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and then both the truth shall be God?

I do. Great. And then go ahead and state your name. Thank you. Excuse me. Justin Birch, 997 Shepherd Woods Court. Um, First things first, I just want to say thank you, Mr. Dills, for allowing everybody to come up and speak. I know it's late, pushing 10 o'clock. I have been getting texts, Mr. Wright, saying they were hearing you ask Mr. Dills to wrap this up, which you responded, it's their right. So thank you for that. Absolutely. Thank you, sir. Good evening. I'm here tonight to voice the collective concerns of many residents regarding the proposed rezoning from R2 to R4 on Shepherd Road. While we understand the need for the growth, development must be harmonious with the established character of our community. One concern is the unprecedented increase in density. CURRENTLY THE SMALL PRIVATE AREAS ALONG SHEPHERD ROAD AVERAGE JUST FOUR HOMES EACH. SO WHEN YOU OFF TEALTOWN ALL THE WAY DOWN, IT'S ABOUT FOUR HOMES ON EACH ONE OF THE OFFSHOOTS OF THAT. IF THAT MAKES SENSE. THIS PROPOSAL CALLS FOR NEW 18 HOME DEVELOPMENT. THIS ISN'T JUST A MINOR INCREASE. myself and those back on willowville and many residents down shepherdwood's court it will feel like a mini brooklyn dropped right in our backyard which is completely out of step with the existing neighborhoods down shepherd road another major concern is the loss of privacy right now the mature trees natural brush provide a buffer between our homes this property and the Willowbrook community behind us. This development would remove most trees and add a three foot tall berm around the perimeter. This berm simply will not replace decades of mature trees that currently provide any sort of privacy for residents all around. Approximately 21 existing homes, including 12 on Locust Grove Court, seven on Shepherd Woods Court and two on Shepherd Road, we'll see our privacy significantly decreased with this potential to rezone to R4, allowing more flexibility of homes on their respective lot. These new homes won't have to adhere to the setbacks of the 30 feet, 30 feet and 10 feet respectively, per the zoning documents that are online. potentially putting new homes even closer to our existing properties, diminishing the privacy that is already in danger. We're also worried about traffic and safety. The road leading to this development is narrow. It has no sidewalks, and there is only one entrance and exit. ONE NOTE THAT I DO HAVE, I HAVE ALREADY HAD TO SPEND OVER $200 BECAUSE MY WIFE WAS FORCED OFF THE EDGE OF THE ROAD YEARS AGO HITTING A TRASH CAN THAT WAS OUT THERE BECAUSE IT WAS SO NARROW. IS THAT ON SHEPHERD? THAT'S ON SHEPHERD ROAD, YES. AND A SIDE NOTE WITH THAT, MANY TIMES WE ARE CONSTANTLY PULLING OVER TO ALLOW CARS TO PASS. So family, children, walkers, cyclists, we all use this road. Increased traffic creates additional safety concerns. We also need to consider the impact of the, excuse me, continued residential development on the West Claremont School District. It seems there has been a recent shift in Union Township toward fitting as many residential communities as possible into smaller pieces of property. but if we stop to consider the cumulative impact of that growth on our schools, 18 additional homes may seem like a small number when considered on their own, but when combined with other new developments, these homes mean additional students to the West Claremont School District. This affects class sizes, classroom space, staffing, transportation, and other school resources. We urge the trustees to deny the rezoning request. We're not against the development, Bar none period, full stop. We're not against it. What we are against is shoving 18 homes into a 3.7 acre lot on a already narrow road to bring. If there's 18, at least two cars for husband, wife, partner, spouse. Now you're up to 36. They started having children. You're, you're climbing way up very quickly. Again, on a very narrow road already. And I would like to just say during snowstorms, plows don't really come down Shepherd Road very often. There are some low spots. There's a lot of ice. It gets pretty dangerous at times. And I'm not just trying to exaggerate that either. We do agree that the current property is an eyesore. full stop, we agree with that. But again, it feels like the goal is just to cram as many homes as possible. I'm sorry, I misspoke, I said 3.7 earlier, as many homes as possible into a 4.7 acre property to maximize the profits of the developer that doesn't live in the community. Currently there is a privacy fence, a six foot wooden privacy fence that is,

Craig, can you pull up a better picture of that?

Yeah, on the aerial. Thank you. Once you turn into, well, to the, if you're staring at Bishop's House, which is the top right corner, little white building, to the right of that there is a six-foot wooden privacy fence that is constantly falling down currently. So one thing that we are worried about is what's going to happen with that fence all the way down, uh, that privacy fence. It then turns into barbed wire fence that comes down my property, neighbor's property, another piece of property, and then around to the private drive. Who's going to take care of that. Is there going to be another fence? What's that going to, uh, what's that going to look like?

All this, Mr. Patroll, this fence you're talking about, is that on the existing property?

That is on the existing property. That's correct. All right. And the last couple things that I do want to say, we have spoken with people that know the developer. They're even against it. And we also know people personally that have put bids in on the property that were denied. whatever it doesn't matter I just want to say or have that on the record that other people are bidding on this that they were just going to have it as a single-family lot they were going to use it for green space they were going to build a home on it not turn this into again a mini Brooklyn and then the really the only question that I have is what are the setbacks on the home if this hypothetically did get rezoned to an r4 mr claudia want to answer that one yeah so looking at what i am

The setbacks for the holds would be the minimum front yard setbacks of all proposed lots should be 25 foot. The minimum rear yard setbacks of the proposed lots should be 15 feet. This combined with a landscape buffer, so the landscape buffer to the rear of this, so you can see that along through there, makes a combination for roughly 30 feet in combined setbacks.

So from the very, the property line to the house would be 30 feet.

So if you're looking at it here, this would roughly be, we would keep it contingent with 15. So you have 15 roughly, then another 15 to get 30 in there. And then the front would be combined to have a standard of 25.

What about, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

So you can kind of see within this plan how all the setbacks vary, those dashed lines. We would just keep a standard setback for there of 25 feet from the front, 15 from the rear with the additional 15 feet in the back to make a total of 30. And sorry, what was your question?

uh what about the lots that are smaller on the right hand or excuse me on the left hand side around the cul-de-sac and then also on the far right hand side heading back towards that

We've got 30 feet here, we've got 25 feet, 20 feet, 25 feet, 25 feet, 20 feet, so roughly. And then you have the buffering of the mound throughout here.

What about on the side where the berm is on the far right side?

See a little strip and then... Yeah, so this one's 10, 15, and then the mound in between there.

And how wide is that mound then?

The mound would be, so we know it's 36 inches high, and then it would roughly be... It would roughly be, let's see here, I would say, what, four feet in width to offset. You know, you can't have it too steep. Otherwise, it would just erode through there.

So about either 14 to 19 feet from the berm or from the property line where the berm would end or that development to the back of the house of a, of one of the developed homes. Am I understand that correctly? It'd be between 14 and 15 feet on that side.

Yes. It looks like it's 10 feet. And then the width, which is, yeah, I would say roughly around 10. So we'd be at 20, at 20 feet, 20 feet around there. Yeah. Thank you.

One second, Mr. Bush. Mr. Baker, any questions?

I do. And Mr. Flaherty might want to chime in on this as well. So I'm very familiar with Shepherd Road. I've even picked up garbage along it, the whole stretch, all the way down. Now, as the chairman pointed out, the area is zoned R2. But is it my imagination or are, even though it's zoned R2, Most of the lots are much larger than the minimum for R2. Does anybody know the answer to that?

Yes, these lots are smaller than a typical R2. What's made up with this is...

I'm talking about the current Shepherd Road.

Oh, yeah, Shepherd Road. If you look at the zone map, the properties around are R2.

Yeah, but that wasn't my question. are you seeing a lot surrounded are smaller and bigger is that your question i'm saying although they're zoned so you know prior to this i was spending some time looking real hard at the at the schematics of you know the the property sizes it appeared to me although it's r2 a lot of these properties are much larger than the minimum for an r2 mr becker if i could i've been here a while uh i've looked at

Probably 300 subdivision plats in my career minimum. So those lots, that's Shepherd Road. If you look at the yellow there, and then you kind of see the curve where the lots sort of, they sort of line up, they don't line up there. You can kind of see Shepherd there, and you see the frontage there. Those lots to the south there, those are approximately, with the exception of that one weird-shaped lot, you guys see it, there's two larger lots, and then kind of a, I don't even know.

Put your mouse on the curve there.

Yeah, so those are probably, those two lots there next to it are probably somewhere between a third of an acre and a half an acre. And then that weird little, you see that one that looks sort of squarish with the corner cut off of it? That might be a little over between a quarter and a third. And then those lots along the front edge to the south, those are quarter acre lots. Those are R1 lots. The lots in Blackberry and all that, those are R2 lots. I'm sorry. We've talked to R1, R2, R4.

So all the ones there on the curve are R2, which are quarter-acre lots.

Yeah, those small lots on the bottom of the picture there, on the bottom right, those are quarter-acre lots.

You can see it very clearly. Maybe I'm wrong. I felt like the question was about how many houses per acre.

Yeah, R2 is four units an acre, and he asked what size are the lots on Shepherd, and I think the answer is it's all over the map. You have large lots. You have small lots. In this particular area, you have some quarter-acre lots. And then literally across the street, you've got two and three-acre parcels.

And I think that's the answer I was looking for. It's all over the map.

Yes. All right.

Thank you.

Above the minimum.

Yeah. Because they're built above the minimum. Yeah. Mr. Logan, any questions for Mr. Birch? No. I'll say this to you, and I should have probably said this to the previous one, but it didn't come up. You brought up West Claremont Schools. Y'all can bring up West Claremont Schools. We, however, are not allowed to. Now, in our brain, we can think whatever we want, but we cannot speak about making a decision based off anything and take the schools into account. That's out of our purview. We're not allowed to. So we might think it, but regardless, we cannot talk about, oh, overcrowding the schools, so therefore I'm going to vote no. I just broke the rules, and I can't do that. Just so you know. So you all can, but we cannot. So for what it's worth. Thank you. Mr. Burch, good job. Appreciate you very much. Yeah, thank you. And then, Mr. Taylor, will you take note that Shepard, he's saying it's too narrow. If we could somehow put that in the budget in the future, I don't know when, but in the future, also snow plows as well. I've heard that just saying, hey, the street doesn't get as plowed as much as it should. I don't know. I don't live on Shepard, but still, just check it out. All good. Thank you, Mr. Burch. Appreciate you. OK, is there anyone else that is an opponent of this case, that's against this case, that would like to talk? Yes, Miss, I saw you at first. And then, sir, I saw you getting ready to get up. I'll call you on next. But no, Miss, come on up. You were first, yeah.

All right.

Oh, very nice of you, Mr. Campbell. Appreciate that. All right, let me swear you in. Okay. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and the but the truth, so be God? I do. Great. The floor is yours. Nice to meet you. Name and address for the record.

My name is Tanya Butts Hamilton. I live at 4733 Shepherd Road. And a lot of my questions were already answered just listening to what other people said and what your response was to it. First, let me say I'm not opposed to development there. I'm just opposed to the R4 development there. One of the problems I found when I went to the zoning meeting is they tried to tell us that their rationale behind it being acceptable to go to R4 was that the population density would be the same as if it was developed as R2. They tried to say that 20 houses would go in on R2 or could. I actually wrote a letter to each of the trustees. I don't know if you got them. Just suppose I'm a developer. I would also have to allow access road. So I try to say that at most they're probably going to get 12 houses in, maybe depending upon the configuration of that lot, maybe even as low as 10. So the argument that they gave us that that 18 was better than 20, actually is more in our favor, that 18 isn't as good as 10. My lot is two acres. The lady who lives behind me, hers is 12.43 acres, and that butts up against the Cincinnati Nature Center. One of my greatest concerns was the decision decisions that you make on this lot. How is that going to affect all the other green spaces and developments back shepherd in the future? Now, I know that doesn't set a precedence because you have to take each lot into consideration on its own merits or its own topography, you know. But if you allow this are for to go into place, It's got to make somebody's argument easier in the future for saying, well, you've done it before. You did it up here. Look at the number. Just like you were asking, how big are the existing lots? Well, somebody's going to say, how big are the existing lots? I'm one of the people that actually brought this to the attention of the Cincinnati Nature Center, and they seem to be quite interested in it. And I used to know Bob True, and he had told me a story about one acre of land that his client had that was undevelopable. And they wanted him to approach the Nature Center and see if they were interested in purchasing it. And he said, oh, I didn't think they would be interested, but they were. He says, anything that prevents future development helps to prevent future groundwater contamination and maintain their ecosystems. Now, where we're at there, we're right on the Nature Center. So the things that you do here, might they influence things in the future? And my dad played at the Nature Center when he was a kid. We're talking 70-some years ago. So 50 years from now is not inconceivable. And you would hate to say 50 years from now, boy, I wish we wouldn't have allowed this much development to go in around the Nature Center. But it's not too late to make that decision now. Now, some of those lots are actually almost a tenth of an acre. You also have the Shepherd Wood, I believe is the name of the subdivision, that is just beyond it. And those are some pretty nice houses that went in back there. That letter I also made sure we distributed it to all those people because I thought they wouldn't be too appreciative to know that a lower income housing may be going in, you know, up the street. Now, when I initially, they told us, I had heard that it was going to be like $260,000 was going to be the approximate value of those houses that were going in. And luckily I got to speak with Tyler Gibbs at the break we had, which he's a real nice guy. And I'm not, again, I'm not opposed to development, and I'm not opposed to him being successful. From what I understand, his purchase of that property, and I can't swear to this because I haven't seen the contract, is contingent upon the changing of the zoning. There's also other offers. on this property to the owner or seller of that property, which would then clean up that house that's there. So that shouldn't sway one way or another. So if you were not to change the zoning, he isn't out anything. He's just got to look for another property that's going to meet the criteria and the zoning of whatever he wishes to make the profit margin that they'd like to on. Now, then I heard earlier they were saying for $300,000 to $500,000 homes, who's going to buy a $500,000 home on a tenth-acre lot on Shepherd Road? I think that was, yeah, somebody, that doesn't sound accurate to me. I also question the infrastructure on that road, not just how wide it is because it is narrow. We have had so much repair of the water sewer lines constantly re-digging up there because it's all old. And so you're adding more development into it. Because we've already called them like five times to come out with a sewage leakage that they've re-dug up right in front of my house. I'm all the way back around the corner. If you go there, I'm the pretty blue house on the left-hand side. And that was my grandfather's house. I've lived there, caught the bus there my entire life. And one older gentleman here had said something about they put... They zoned it for a reason. Who decides that now we don't want to maintain the zoning? And I understand. developing, but it's zoned. I don't see the benefit of going to R4, other than it benefiting the developer that he's going to make the profit margin that he's looking for. It's certainly not helping me, my family. I just put an $80,000 room addition on my house back there. My kids are going to inherit this, my grandkids. And yeah, this affects the future. I know that, and I can't say that, but the particular company in question that was buying this also worked with the Chamber of Commerce on a lot of different projects. He even helped on developing their offices. On his website, the Chamber of Commerce is saying, thank you for helping us with the developing of... So it just makes you wonder, does he know somebody so he's got a better chance to get this to persuade you that way? I certainly hope not. And then also, there was one other thing I was going to, the property values, if they go in, it's going to affect all of us over the next 10 years, 20 years. 30 years. And just one other little comment that I wanted to make about how we all got notified about this. If it wouldn't have been for somebody coming around and trying to sign a petition because there was 125 names on it. I wouldn't have known about it. And they did stay within their guidelines that they had to notify the people that were adjacent and across the street and whatever. But I also found out that Kevin Siler got a letter. And he lives even further down the road than I did. So how is it that he got a letter of notification but I didn't? Are you picking and choosing who you're giving them to? I mean, that kind of lends itself to think that there's impropriety to that. I mean, was it overlooked? Was it got lost in the mail? Or is somebody doing something that they didn't want everybody to jump on board with this? What I'm saying is in the future, I think that if it's going to affect everyone on that street, everyone on that street should have received notification and they did not. So that means I think that

not just this one any other one is there a way to change that so that if it you know everybody lives on that residential street if they're zoning on it being changed i think everybody on that residential street we hear you on that that's my recommendation for future that was one thing this board was able to take initial action on um was exactly that concept because it did used to just be the adjacent property and we we pushed for it to be widely expanded so that people do receive letters and that signage goes out. There should be the posting and signage that are out. I saw the list of letters. That's tough when you start to say, how far do you go? Is it two miles radius? Is it a quarter mile? We had that discussion.

One of the longest get-in roads in Claremont County or Union Township. One of our friends is a postman. He was telling me that.

We end up doing that. We end up saying, here it is, Shepard and and then we turn around at Clough Pike and everyone at Clough Pike says, I didn't get a letter. I'm like, well, Clough Pike's this long. So I appreciate it. It just upset me.

No, thank you so much. And again, the lady behind me is getting ready to sell her property. It's 12.4 acres within the next six to nine months. And whatever happens back here, could that influence how much could happen behind me coming up in the not-too-distant future? So I've already contacted the Nature Center. I think they're interested in purchasing that. And it was because of all of this that it brought it to my attention that I started to get some concern. So beyond that, I don't think I have anything else.

Thank you. Mr. Flaherty?

Yeah, so Mr. Flaherty, can you comment on the letters that went out, like how many residents or how far a radius from the property? So we have a list in the

If it's based on radius, somebody behind me got one, even further down got one than me.

In the inclusion plans, we can see the radius of 200 feet around the property, and that's who the letters were sent to.

200 feet around the property?

Yes.

Why would Mr. Schreiber? That's what we decided on. Yeah, that's true. Mr. Becker, that's that was that was per our decision to expand it because it previously was just the next door neighbor. I remember that. And we wanted to be like the pure person across the street. And we're like, we had that discussion, this exact discussion. Like, it's going to be difficult because we expanded from the original.

Yeah.

But Jason, unlike I remember, someone's always going to feel like they missed a letter. So, OK, thank you.

That's all I have to show Jennifer.

no i i do appreciate that thank you thank you miss appreciate you very much yeah okay is there anyone else that's you know i said i was gonna call you next sir so please yeah right here in the front red shirt yes sir hey okay come on up good um perfect okay and then uh oh you got your card perfect yeah mr michigan was fine thank you sir thank you yes all right let me go and swear you in I'm going to raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? I do. Name and address for the record, sir.

My name is Jeffrey Bond. I live at 4634 Shepherd Road. Octavia, obviously. Now, I raised zoning at the zoning meeting. I raised several concerns of mine. And some of those have even changed more. The traffic, that's one. And we're not talking about 36 cars. If I had four sons and each one had a car, and my wife had a car, and I had a car, okay? That's six times 18, not two.

That's one.

I drive down Chevrolet Road every day, and it is narrow. And yes, you do have to slow down. You do have to move over. You're going to add another 60 cars to this? That's one concern. Someone raised the point that the signatures that were gathered was a ploy by a possible purchaser. I disagree with that. Mr. Crocker's daughter and his son live adjacent to me. Why wouldn't he be concerned about this development? I would be if they were my children and grandchildren. We have all kinds of pedestrian traffic. So now we have another concern. And it's 35 miles an hour on a dead end street. They seldom drive 35. I guarantee you that. I back into my driveway to make sure I don't get hit. Now we'll talk about my newest concern. I came up to the zoning and they were gracious enough to print out Something that I hadn't been made aware of at the zoning meeting. If I can approach you for just a moment. They printed this out for me. And it has all the addresses on it. And unfortunately I only have one copy. But my address is 4634. And you will see that This is my property. Along my property line is a drainage ditch, creek. It starts here. This is Cindy's property, Mr. Crawford's daughter. That drainage creek drains everything. Here, all of this. All of the development over here, all of the development over there, flows into this creek.

Good north?

That was a question, is it good north? Where does it go from there? It goes back into the junkyard. This way. Is that north? Okay.

Yes, it flows north.

Now, on Friday, at my own expense, because it was narrow, I had it expanded to slow the flow down. And again, I'm sorry, I only have these few pictures. Friday last we had an unusual amount of rain. I know you guys will all agree with that. So now, you don't see the creek because it is flooded. It has flooded my neighbor's yard. It flooded part of my yard. Even though I expanded this just so we could slow the flow down.

When was this picture taken?

Friday last. Friday. Remember we had like three inches of rain in an hour and a half. I've got this storm drain that shoots water up in the air. That is unusual, and I will not argue that. We've had no storm drains on Shepherd Road.

Everything in my neighborhood comes into mine, and it shoots up into the air.

It comes up in my basement a little bit sometimes, too, because everything drains into this creek. That's exciting. Oh, it's insane. So now you're going to add 18 more houses that are going to drain into my creek. according to your zoning draw.

Your house is where?

My house is right here. 4634. So it runs right there. That's my newest concern, and that's because of this. The flooding that we had, and it was an unusual rain. But now you're going to add 18 more houses, which is 18 more gutters, which is 18 more basement drains, etc.

There's no storm sewers on Shepard?

No, there are not. I did not know that. No, sir. They're all either front yard drain, and in fact, when I had my The county engineer told me I had to slope it so it would drain from the street into the creek that runs on the property line of my property. My other concern is the actual community that we live in. The vast majority of the houses on Shepherd Road have half acre lots. Not necessarily all. Some are larger. Very few are smaller. So now we're going to put in housing on eight acre lots. So this is not going to fit in this community. It won't look right. It removes a lot of the privacy of several of my neighbors. They talk about expanding green space by making it R4. That's a wonderful concept, except that that's already green space. And yes, I'd want it to be developed, but not 18 houses. Nine or 10 houses would fit really nice. They would be able to save a fair amount of the existing old forest that's there. and still have a development. I'm not against the development at all. I'm against the scale of the development. And like I said, my newest concern is the drainage on my apartment. That's about all. Oh, one more thing. These poor gentlemen here, they put the development that they want, how are they going to get in there to put out a fire that has a house that's five feet next to it? You're going to put three firefighters and a ladder in between there and drag the hose in? I don't think so. I don't think that would work at all. I don't believe the fire chief would force those four guys in there unless he had no choice. With the rezoning that's being proposed, he would have no choice. Thank you, gentlemen.

Thank you, Mr. Brown. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else that's an opponent to this case? Sir, come on up.

Yeah.

I got you.