Police Fatality Public Fact-finding Review - Regular Meeting

Welcome to today's police fatality public fact finding review concerning the death of Percy Hawkins on 10/04/2024. I'm William Jansen. I will be presiding over today's proceedings. This review is being held because the Clark County District Attorney's Office has made a preliminary determination that no criminal prosecution of the officers involved in the death of Percy Hawkins is appropriate. Clyde County Ordinance 2.12 requires a public review following such a determination.

This is not a trial. The purpose of today's proceeding is to present the public with the essential facts surrounding the death of Percy Hawkins. Chief deputy district attorney Parker Brooks will present today's fact finding review on behalf of the district attorney's office. He will determine the witness or witnesses to be called. The ordinance did not provide subpoena power on my behalf and does not allow for any other party to call witnesses.

Monique McNeil has been appointed at to be the ombudsman. She represents the public and the Hawkins family. She will have the opportunity to ask questions of the witness or witnesses. The procedure of the questioning witnesses shall be informal with a view to providing the public with a relevant information regarding the use of force. The rules of evidence shall not be strictly enforced.

Members of the public observing this review may submit proposed written questions and forms located in the back of this room and present it to one of the officers present. I will ask the question unless I determine that it is irrelevant, redundant, or an abuse of the review process. At the conclusion of this review, no formal determination regarding the manner or cause of death shall be rendered. Now, mister Parker, you have any else to add on to that? And miss McNeil, do you have anything you add on to that?

Okay then, mister Parker, you can call your first, witness. Or mister Brooks, excuse me, call your first witness.

The state calls detective Andrew Evans. You

may proceed.

Detective, could you tell us how you are employed and in what capacity?

With the force investigation team at Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.

And when we say force investigation team, could you tell me a little bit about what the force investigation team's duties, what you guys would be assigned to investigate, and what is a common abbreviation or an acronym that we might hear used for your team?

The common abbreviation would be referred to as FIT. We investigate mainly officer involved shootings, in custody deaths, and any critical incidents where an officer seriously injured. And so that we understand what is the kind of purview of your investigation? What are your parameters and what are you looking? We investigate the criminal aspect of deadly force incidents.

Now are you here today to prevent the public fact finding for an officer involved shooting that occurred in 2024? Yes. Could you take us through where that occurred and a little bit of the

able And twenty first

then,

officer involved shooting and some of their details.

There were two involved officers. The first one is officer Trent Zell Allen. Excuse me. He was hired in November 2021 at the time of the incident. He was 27 years old, assigned to Convention Center Area Command. His body camera was activated. He did provide a walk through of the crime scene, which we'll get into later. He did not provide a statement to fit detectives. His weapon that he used is a Glock 19. It's a handgun equipped with a tactical light, and the investigation revealed he fired six rounds.

And when you say investigation, is there something that is is there a term used for the officers' weapons and how it is impounded and looked at after a shooting? Countdown. What's a countdown?

We'll do a countdown on scene. The crime scene analysts will assist with that where we will ask the officer how they keep their firearm loaded. And then we download the firearm, see how many rounds are left in the firearm, and then find a difference of how many rounds were fired. We compare that to evidence on scene such as cartridge cases and video.

Is that also compared to the body worn camera and the subsequent forensic analysis that would be done on both officers? Yes. Please continue.

The second officer is officer Anthony Salinas. He was hired in February 2022. At the time, he was 26. Also assigned to convention center area command. His camera was activated. He also provided a walk through and he also did not provide a statement to fit detectives.

When we say convention center area command, what area does that encompass here in the valley?

Mainly the Las Vegas Vegas Boulevard Strip area. And was this shooting an incident off the strip just briefly? Just east of. Yes. Thank you. Officer Salinas had a Smith and Wesson handgun. Was a nine millimeter also with a tactical light, and he fired 12 rounds.

Could you tell us a little bit about the decedent, some of his details, and any applicable charges that could have been filed had he lived?

The decedent was identified as Percy Lee Hawkins at the time he was 37. He resided in Las Vegas. Had he survived, he would have been charged with a temp murder on a first responder, two counts, assault with deadly weapon on protected person, two counts, and resisting a public officer with a weapon, not a firearm.

Did were you able to recover the weapons that mister Hawkins had on him?

He was armed with a kitchen knife that had a blade length of approximately two. Point seven five inches. And then he also had a metal chain that he had wrapped around his fist consistent in a manner that would be used as metal knuckles.

When fit detectives and takeover an investigation, including yourself and your teammates, do you guys do interviews of the various civilians that you find on scene?

Yes. In this case, was that done? There were several civilian witnesses identified. For this presentation, we just have them identified by their initials to protect their privacy. The first one is FP, which was the decedent's girlfriend at the time, j a n j e q k s e v n c w. And with FP, was FP at least the one who had the most bird's eye view of the entire incident? Do we see her in the

body cam at least? Yes.

Could you tell us about the cause and manner of death and the toxicology for Mr. Was conducted by Doctor. Schaller at the Clark County coroner's office on 10/05/2024. He determined the cause of death, multiple gunshot wounds, and the manner of death homicide. There were positive toxicology findings for amphetamine, methamphetamine, and THC.

And would you take us through, after you start doing the investigation in this case, do you compile a timeline from the CAD and the body worn camera so that we can see the events of the day?

Yes. So the timeline starts at zero 09:58. Person reporting called, LVNPD stated that two subjects were on property refusing to leave. The PR also reported the subjects threatened to commit a battery against the PR. At 10:01, the call was updated that the subjects were pacing in the parking lot with a pit bull and refusing to leave. 10:22, officer Allen and Salinas arrived on scene. Shots fired was broadcasted over the radio at 10:23. At 10:24, medical was requested to expedite. Medical arrived at 10:28. At 10:33, the decedent was transported to UMC, and the decedent was pronounced deceased at UMC at 10:44.

Now the person reporting you referred to there, is it fair that that was someone from inside the casino?

Yes, that was an employee.

And that employee inside the casino fair that they don't see the actual shooting, they're still inside? Yes. Okay. Take us through, were you able to obtain any of the casino video that prompted this initial call for service and the disturbance call?

Is a video

for Before we show the video, I have say the following material is required to be presented in any and may contain graphic images or language. Viewer discretion is advised as graphic content may be displayed on any and all the videos that will be

presented. Thank you. This is video from inside the casino. You'll see the decedent approach the casino employees

a

casino.

Then,

be of to able

a to leave at this point? Correct. And Okay. Those two individuals that we saw there, is one of those the decedent and the other FP? Yes.

You mentioned the pit bull. Is it fair that the pit bull wasn't ever used as any other provocation or any of the basis that caused this first call for service? Correct. So it just happened to be with them? Correct. Okay. Please continue.

Next, we'll move to body camera. The first body camera is officer Allen as he's arriving on scene.

Get back. Get back. And

detective, let me ask you a couple follow-up questions just so we understand. Was this officer Allen or officer Salinas body cam this first? Officer Allen. And up in the top right, I thought you told us it was 10:23 a. M. When the when taking line. Do you see how it says seventeen twenty three?

Yes. That's due the body cameras run off of UTC time, so it's offset from Pacific time.

And is normal? That's the way it's stored? Yes. Additionally, when we saw officer Allen pulling into the casino's parking lot, the patrol vehicle in front of them, who was in that? Officer Salinas. Were they both operating as a single man unit or a two man unit? Both single manned patrol units. We had heard some of the audio, but it was a little faint. When do you hear in the video officer Allen instruct the decedent to drop the knife? Yes. What was the reply that the decedent gave to that command?

In the decedent's words, he replied, I ain't dropping shit.

It was a little fast as far as when after he says, I ain't dropping shit. Do you see the decedent go somewhere? Yes. Where does he go?

He approaches officer Allen's location.

Do you have any screenshots for us that kind of show the weapons?

This is a screenshot from officer Allen's body worn camera. You can see in the decedent's left hand circled is the knife with the blade sticking out. And this next one is the decedent's right hand. You can see the chain wrapped around the decedent's knuckles.

When we were hearing the phrase get back yelled out by officer Alan toward the end, who was he yelling that to? The decedent. Was there also at that point in time was the decedent on the ground? After, sorry, after the shooting was FP in the dog in

Yes. The general

So when we hear that get back, get back, is he instructing FP in the dog? Yes. Okay. Does there come a point in time when we watch officer Salina's body cam where he will fall? Yes. Do you have any stills though of officer Allen's body cam showing us okay. What what's happening right here?

This is the decedent chasing officer Salinas with the knife in his right hand. At this point in time, has officer Salinas fallen yet? No. Not at this point.

When we listen to officer Salinas' body cam and he falls, does something occur with the audio?

The camera malfunctions during and after the fall. So the audio will be distorted in his video after officer Salinas falls on the ground.

Could you take us through officer Salinas' body cam? Detective, with regard to officer Salinas and officer Allen's body cam, there's a period of time where there's no sound and then the sound picks up. Is that something you did or is that something with body cam?

The body cameras are recording on a constant thirty second loop. So when an officer activates his body camera, the first thirty seconds prior to that activation recorded without audio and then the audio starts where the officer activated his camera.

With regard to the beginning portion of officer Salina's body cam, are you able to hear the decedent and FP saying something or screaming something that you later learned from FP's interview?

Yes. We'll get into FP's interview, but the decedent makes statements saying that he is the son of God and he was gonna do this for his father and things of that nature.

Okay. And in this still screenshot, what are we seeing?

This is the decedent charging towards officer Salinas with the knife in his hand raised.

Just prior to officer Salinas falling. And whose vehicle is this at this point in time that we see on the left?

That is officer Allen's vehicle.

So we've already circled all the way around the parking lot and now we're in that street area. Correct. Could you take us through some of civilian interviews?

The most direct civilian interview was FP, the decedent's girlfriend. She stated that she and the decedent were evicted from their apartment a day prior to the OAS. She explained that the decedent did not trust the police. She believed the only narcotic used by the decedent was marijuana. FP and the decedent went to the casino to get ice water and to look for shade. FP and the decedent got into an argument with the casino manager when they asked for more water. FP and the decedent left the casino and stayed outside. The decedent became upset and began pacing outside the casino. FP claimed the decedent was not suicidal, but when the police arrived, the decedent stated, I'm gonna go out for my father no matter what. The decedent also made comments claiming to be the son of God.

His officers drew their firearms. The decedent charged with life.

And we talked about that son of God comment. Is that the Yahuwah that we hear screamed just as the body cam is picking up? Yes. What is, you mentioned this term earlier, walk through. Explain what a walk through is.

The purpose of the scene walk through is to assist the crime scene analysts and detectives with developing an understanding of the scene, including identifying the officers' locations at the time deadly force was used, identifying items of potential physical evidence, and recreating a timeline of the incident. The walk throughs done with the officers are voluntary.

Can you take us through some of the details that you learned during the walk throughs with officer Allen and officer Salinas?

Yes. The walk through was done through the attorney where the attorney would make a statement and the officer would confirm the statement with the answer yes. So both officers stated they responded to a disturbance call and observed the decedent had a knife in his left hand. Officer Allen drew his duty weapon and ordered the decedent to drop the knife. The decedent charged at officer Allen who was standing by the open driver's door. Officer Allen discharged his weapon at the decedent who was right beside the driver's door. The decedent ran around the front of officer Allen's car towards officer Salinas' car. Officer Salinas observed the decedent with a knife and discharged his weapon at the decedent. The decedent circled around officer Salinas' car and reappeared near the trunk. The decedent ran towards officer Salinas with the knife still in his hand.

While officer Salinas was moving backwards, he discharged his weapon at the decedent. Both officers discharged their firearms to protect themselves and their partner from deadly force being used against them.

Now, had an officer involved shooting, would crime scene analysts be deployed to a scene like other scenes? Yes. When crime scene analysts are deployed, do they take photos on the ground and are other photographic images deployed on that kind of day?

Yes. We'll also take drone photos. Could you take us through some of the crime scene photographs? This is a drone photo of the scene. You can see where the two patrol vehicles stopped in the parking lot when they initially made contact with the decedent. The cones identify various pieces of evidence that were located on the scene.

What piece of evidence are we looking at in this photograph?

This is a street view photograph. The circle is the chain that the decedent had wrapped around his knuckles that was dropped on the ground.

And roughly where is this chain dropped in relation to let's say the patrol vehicles and where the decedent comes to rest?

This is south of where the decedent comes to rest. The decedent came to rest just behind that gray sedan parked on the left side of

the street there. Was there anything found near his body?

Yes. This is the where the decedent came to rest. This is drone photo. You can see where the knife was located just next to the decedent.

Were all these materials, compiled and then eventually turned over to the district attorney's office during the officer involved shootings review? Yes. Thank you. I have no further questions for this witness. I'll pass the witness.

Alright, mister Camille, it's your turn to ask this officer any questions and you may proceed.

Thank you, your honor. Good morning, detective. Morning. In preparation for today, you reviewed the reports that some of which we've seen and you've discussed. Correct? Yes. There were the FIT report and other reports compiled that you would have reviewed?

Yes.

Did you listen to the 911 call? Yes. We've watched the body worn camera, and you reviewed that. Yes. And all of the witness statements. Correct? Okay. The PowerPoint that we've seen today is not all of the things you reviewed. It's sort of a summary?

Correct.

Okay. Officer Allen and officer Salinas were somewhat new in October 2024. Is that fair to say? Yes. Officer Allen was hired in November 2021? And Salinas in February 2022. Correct. Prior to being sort of put on the streets on your own, they would have been in the police academy, which is about around six months.

Correct.

And then after the academy, there's a period of field training.

Correct.

Is that around four months?

I'd say four to six months. Okay. There's several phases to it.

And that is where they're sort of with more experienced officers before they're sort of let out on their own. Correct. So in October 2024, they would have been sort of out on the streets on their own for about a year to two years.

Correct.

As far as training goes, in the police academy, officers are trained how to deescalate situations. Correct? Correct. They're taught that they should endeavor, ideally best case scenario, to slow down a situation, to stabilize it, and to resolve it as safely as possible.

Yes.

They're taught to use techniques such as verbal persuasion? Correct. They have other resources available to them other than firearms?

Correct.

And they are taught how to transition through their that continuum of force options. Correct?

Correct.

And the reason for that is is safety, right, for the officers? Correct. For the suspects? Correct. And for other civilians who may be at the scene. Correct?

Correct.

We saw from the wide camera, some of these situations can be pretty dynamic and fast moving. Yes. Officers have to rely on their their training. Yes. And that training is important because once the adrenaline kicks in, your brain kinda shuts down. Fair to say?

It doesn't completely shut down. Your your focus of attention does change. Yes.

Sure. So the officers need to sort of rely on their muscle memory.

Correct.

Right? It's important to stay calm under pressure. Yes. And officers are supposed to try to speak calmly when they arrive at the scene?

Yes. Sometimes being more assertive with your tone of voice and instructions is a form of de escalation.

Sure. Does Metro teach any sort of combat breathing or other similar techniques the academy?

Combat breathing?

Yeah. Techniques to sort of bring your heart rate down.

I'm not aware of the specific curriculum in the academy as far as breathing techniques, but there is firearms training.

Is it fair to say that the officer's energy on the scene can can be important? For example, if the officer sort of escalates his energy, a suspect might escalate in response?

Typically, officers respond to the behavior of the suspect and the suspect's response to the officers on scene.

Okay. So kind of feeding off of each other? Correct. Ideally, officers try to slow the momentum. Correct. That's why we hear those verbal commands. Right? Put down the weapon. Stop moving. Those kinds of commands. Yes. To use less lethal lethal options, is it fair to say that you need time and distance?

Yes.

Time to calm the situation down and distance to make sure that you are safe? Correct. Officers are equipped with options other than firearms? Correct. They have weapons that have non lethal rounds?

Not on their person. There are low lethality rounds available in the patrol vehicles, but they're not on their person.

Sure. So in officer Ellen's patrol vehicle, did he have that available to him? Yes. Also, officers carry tasers? The the other officers carry shields in their car? Not every other patrol vehicle is

equipped with a shield. The tactical vehicles have shields.

Okay. If an officer is aware that he may be going into a situation where a suspect is armed, is he able to find an officer who may have that shield in his car to arrive with him?

If they're available, yes.

A shield can provide cover from something like a knife?

Yes.

A car could also provide cover. Control car. An officer can also withdraw from a situation to try to create time to diffuse that situation.

If practical, yes.

Radio for other officers? Yes. Officers also get training on how to handle suspects who may be mentally ill. Yes. And how to handle suspects who may be under the influence of of drugs. Yes. Information that an officer gets prior to arriving on the scene is pretty crucial. Right? Yes. Because once they get there, they have to make pretty quick decisions. Yes. So they need to go in with as much information as they can get. Correct. And that information often comes to them through dispatch. Is that right?

Yes.

Right. People call for help and dispatch is trained to gather information.

Yes.

And then they are to provide that information to the officers?

Yes.

Allows the officers to sort of assess the risks they may be walking into? Yes. You said you reviewed the 911 call? Yes. The officers don't get that 911 call. Right? Correct. They just get what the the dispatch tells them?

Yes.

Here, the reports say that the call was an other disturbance. Is that fair to say? Yes. And then there was a mention of a sort of a threatened battery. Yes. And then the information that came from dispatch was that it was negative for weapons.

Correct.

After listening to the 911 call, that was the EV, the initials, was the call 911 caller?

Yes.

And she worked at the Red Dragon Casino?

Correct.

Okay. So in the 911 call, would you agree with me that she says a man and woman came behind the counter at her work?

Yes.

They threatened a battery. Do you remember that she said she needed officers immediately? Yes. She described the man as wigging out?

Correct.

She said that the man had threatened to, in her words, eff her

up? Correct.

She sounded sort of shaken up on that call.

Yes.

Okay. She told the dispatch that these people were out front of the casino at that time, right?

Yes.

And that they had the man was freaking out? Yes. She told dispatch that the man said that he was god and didn't have to leave the casino. Correct?

Yes.

Okay. She also told dispatch that the man had a chain wrapped around his hand and was threatening guests.

Yes.

She said that the man was definitely on something when the dispatch asked about if he thought they were on drugs. She again reiterated that the man had a chain and said he was going to f everybody up. Correct? Correct. Then do you remember that dispatch asked her specifically if the man had a weapon?

I don't remember specifically. I have to listen to the Okay.

Polygamy. If I told you that she did, would you would you believe me? Okay. And do you remember, if you do, that dispatch or that she said just the chain wrapped around his hand?

Yes.

And then she said it's wrapped around his hand like knuckles. That would be brass knuckles. Right? Correct. Which a weapon?

Correct.

She also said that the man was walking around with the chain wrapped around his arm or around his wrist. That might suggest that he was possibly aggressive.

Correct.

And we know he was at least armed with that essentially brass knuckles? Yes. That sort of behavior that she describes, saying that he's God, sort of being aggressive, suggest potentially a mental health issue?

Yes. Possibly.

Possibly substance abuse? Yes. Possibly both? Reviewing the witness statements, you learned that another witness said that Hawkins was speaking gibberish and incoherent?

Yes.

That kind of information would have been important for officers to know prior to arrival perhaps?

Yes. It's not always ideal for ideally, yes, but it's not always a case where officers have a 100% of the information that's going on at a scene before they arrive.

Sure. But you would agree with me that sort of what dispatch conveyed to the officers didn't give the officers the best information that day?

Information that the dispatcher had.

Okay. But, again, the the dispatch didn't inform the officers about the chain, the aggression, the saying that he was god. Correct. Right. If officers are unclear about what may happen upon arrival, they can communicate and kind of come up with a game plan. Right? Yes. They can decide kind of who's gonna do what when they arrive?

Correct.

They may decide one officer could be have non lethal weapons and one can have lethal. Right? Correct. Risks different scenes require different skill sets. Correct?

Different responses. Yes.

Right. Different means of de escalation. So there's a difference between thinking that you're walking into sort of a trespass minor disturbance scene and a man who's armed, incoherent, saying he's God, being aggressive, right? Yes. On the body worn camera, is it fair to say that Salinas is kind of out of his car first?

Yes.

And we can see through officer Allen's window that Hopkins is sort initially pointed towards Salinas.

Right? Yes. And then diverts towards officer Allen.

Officer Salinas did not have his gun in his hand when he got out of the car.

Not initially.

Right. He had we kinda saw he had his phone. Right? Correct. So he didn't get out of his car in sort of an aggressive defensive manner. Correct?

Correct.

At that point, Hawkins was outside, and he was not charging at officer Salinas.

Correct.

When officer Allen pulls up, we hear him say, well, he's still in the car. Oh, shit. He's got a

knife. Yes.

He didn't call for backup at that point? No. When he gets out of the car, he's armed. Right?

Yes.

He's pointing his gun.

Yes.

And he's yelling.

Yes. Okay.

Hawkins comes towards him, initially, the car door is between them. Is that fair to say? Yes. And then at that point, that is when he starts shooting? Yes. That still shot that we saw where Hawkins is coming towards Salinas, you said that he had his the knife in his right hand?

It was actually in his left hand.

Okay. That's what I was gonna clarify. Because to me, it looked like his left hand. Are you aware if mister Hawkins was right handed or left handed?

I'm not aware.

He also had in his hand the same hand with the knife he was holding onto his hat as well. Is it fair to say?

Yes. At

this scene, there were actually other people around outside?

Yes. There was a security officer, and then there were people that were quite a distance away.

Okay. Including f FP who was close by. Right?

She was she was in the immediate area. Yes.

There were people inside the casino. Yes. And there could have been people driving by. Yes. In fact, did you later learn that an Uber driver reported his car had been hit?

Yes. There

were also bullet impacts to the building?

Correct.

And one of the witnesses, KS, said that some of the shots came at pedestrians?

Yes.

There was a construction worker also nearby? Correct. He said that he saw officers shouting at a guy, but the guy didn't do anything to the cop?

That's what he said.

And then we saw started to run away from officer Salinas.

He at which point? After the OIS?

Yes.

Yes.

But the the shooting continued?

Yes.

I now am going to ask you some questions that mister Hawkins' mother asked me to ask. When officer Allen pulled up to the scene, do you know how many feet from Percy he was when he arrived?

I don't have that specific distance right now.

Okay. How long between officer Allen get out of the car and the shooting?

It was very quickly. I don't have the exact time frame. Okay. But in the timeline, we have the

did see that it was

about arrival.

A minute between arrival and the shooting report. Correct. Okay. So within The

Give him a chance to look at

it. Sure.

The time OIS broadcasted, that's when he says it on the radio. Okay. Officer Salinas and officer Allen arrived at 10:22 forty five, and officer Allen discharged his handgun at 10:23 zero two.

Okay. So about seventeen seconds. I'm terrible at math, so maybe someone else can confirm that. Okay. So very quickly, Okay. You're The next question she wanted me to ask was kind of about that 911 call. There were also some reports that FP was being belligerent as well. Yes. Right? If the officers had known that it was the woman who was being belligerent, would they have made different decisions that day?

I can't speak for what would or could have happened.

Okay. Is it typical to shoot someone who is fleeing? No. How did officer Allen go from getting out of the car to lethal force and not pepper spray or something else?

So officer Allen did give us a statement, so I can't speak for him directly. However, watching the video, it appears to unfold very quickly. Ideally, you would attempt low lethal options first. However, if the time does not allow that, then if the officer feels that they need to use lethal force immediately, then that's what the officer feels they needed.

Okay. She also wanted me to ask, what is the Tennessee versus Garner standard on deadly force with someone who is fleeing?

Tennessee versus Gardner's case law that allows officers to use deadly force for a fleeing felon who they believe is still a danger to the public.

Okay. We've reviewed the body cams, so I think this question has probably been answered, but I'm just going to ask it for her sake. In the video that she saw, the body cam she saw, there was no deescalation or verbal warning. Was there other video?

There is no other video.

But we did see the video today that did sort of have that verbal warning. Correct? Yes. Okay. And then the last question that she wanted me to ask was were the officers disciplined?

I'm not aware of that. There's two separate investigations that happened. There's the criminal investigation and then the administrative investigation and we are not privy to anything that happens administratively.

So, you're not part of that? Correct. The investigation. Okay. I I don't have sorry, Cliff.

Mister Brooks, do you have any additional questions you would like to ask this officer as a result of the questions presented by Ms. McNeil? I do have some follow-up judgment. You may have.

Ms. McNeil. I am finished. Yes, thank you.

Detective, in no particular order, just have kind of some questions I wanted to follow-up on. Let's start with just the time and distance type questions. We'd heard seventeen seconds and we'd heard a minute. Is it fair that at ten twenty three, zero seconds, Officer Allen orders the decedent to drop the knife and that decedent is at the car and shots have been fired within two seconds. Yes.

It's not even seventeen seconds is still in the car driving into the parking lot. Fair? Correct. And so at the point in time when the decedent is given the order to drop the knife, he covers whether it be eight yards, 12 yards, he gets to the car and the door within two seconds? Yes. Within three seconds, is it fair that all the shots have been fired by officer Allen? Yes. Now, there was a question asked about a car could provide cover. Do you remember that? Yes.

Fair. Car could provide cover. Have you ever heard a car referred to as a death trap? Yes. Explain the V of a car and where officer Allen was in a v and why that may or may not be cover advantageous, disadvantageous.

Where he was at that particular moment inside the door jam, he has limited options as far as his movement. So his only options are to move away from the car, which would then eliminate any barrier between him and the decedent.

So although a car could provide cover, that particular position with the door open is one of the worst, fair? Correct. And fair that you have to get out of the car that way. That's the only way to kind of get out of it. Correct. There was this question about the personal reporting calling 911. Do you remember that? Yes. Does the personal reporting also call her own security service? Yes. During your investigation, did you determine whether or not the security service showed up and what, if anything, occurred?

Security officer decedent became belligerent with the security officer and the security officer reported that the decedent struck the rear of the security vehicle with an unknown object.

And then just parks in the parking lot and waits for police to arrive there? Correct. The question about mister Hawkins holding his hat. Fair that at some point is holding his hat while running officer Salinas, right? Yes. Is he initially holding his hat when officers arrive in the parking lot? No. Is his hat on his head? Yes. Is he bowed up with a weapon in each hand?

Yes. The other question that and I just I I wanted to understand your answer. Do you remember when miss McNeil was asking you about officers sometimes one will be lethal, some will be low lethal? Yes. Is it fair that that is I just want to understand are you saying that in a plan one might be lethal, low lethal, hands on, and one might be the voice? Or are you saying that in a given moment one could be lethal and one could be lethal depending on their vantage point. What were you saying there?

When time allows, officers will come up with a plan where they assign roles where who might provide lethal coverage, who will be hands on if handcuffs need to be applied, who will use a shield, who will issue verbal commands, when time allows. When time doesn't allow, if both officers perceive a threat, then both officers will respond with whatever force is appropriate for that threat.

So in a particular moment, if someone and and we're not saying lethal or low lethal is justified this or that. If one officer is using lethal force and believes that that's appropriate, the other is not deploying a bean bag at that point in time. No. I mean, assuming that's he has other options to it. Correct. Okay. That was the only things I I wanted to clear up. Thank you, judge.

Arthur, you have any further questions, miss McGill?

Just just one follow-up. Okay, go ahead. When we were talking about officers come up with the plan, one might be lethal, one might be low lethal. That's made before arrival. Right?

Yes. If time allows.

Right. And that's when that information that they get becomes very important. Right? Correct. So, they have the knowledge to come up with that plan.

Correct.

Okay. I have nothing.

See sitting behind you, mister O'Neill, turned to me that there are family members and friends of the the deceased. You wish to confer with them to see if they have any questions they would like to have asked of this officer. I'll give you some time to do so.

Yes, sir. Thank you. Okay.

On. Alright. We're going take a short recess because I have to review these over look at these questions to determine if they are, allowed to be answered or asked of this, officer. I personally reviewed the questions that were presented by the family members and friends of the decedent along with Ms. McNeil and Mr.

Brooks. And I approved to have all the questions that were presented, to miss McNeil to be asked of this officer. So you may proceed.

Thank you, your honor. This is on behalf of Marquise Sturges. Why when they saw a knife, why didn't they step back, protect themselves, and call for backup? Is this not something that the police practice?

The officers didn't give us a statement, so I can't speak specifically to why they chose to do what they did. However, you can see that this unfolds very quickly.

Okay. Does the Red Dragon have cameras outside?

They have a camera outside. It does not point in the direction of the shooting though.

Okay. And this is from Cynthia Hawkins. Is it true this isn't the first time these seem to be addressed to officer Allen, but I'll just read them the way they are written. You pulled up to Percy Hawkins with guns drawn, 08/05/2024, officer Allen.

I'm not aware of officer Allen's specific call history and who he contacted.

Okay. So that wouldn't have been something that you

reviewed? Something I can't answer.

From arriving to the scene and exiting your car, how long before the first shot occurred?

Again, back to the timeline. At 10:22 forty five is when the officers arrived, and officer Allen discharged his handgun at 10:23 zero two.

Was he already shot, when you say he was charging towards you, a premature reflex fight or flight?

I don't know at what point the decedent was shot specifically. Obviously, the bullets go too fast to see on camera, so I can't answer at what point specific specific bullets bullets hit hit him. Him.

Okay. Have you had any disciplinary action against you since the shooting and when?

Again, like I said before, there's two separate investigations that happened, so I don't have any knowledge of any administrative actions that were taken.

What did you do to deescalate and address the situation?

The when the officers arrived, there were verbal verbal commands issued that is a form of deescalation.

What nonlethal weapon did you use before using deadly force?

The officers did not use a non lethal option.

Do you feel the first shot was justified on the wrong target?

Our role in fit is not to provide recommendation on justification or unjustification. We simply provide a report to the DA's office with facts and circumstances of the case, and the DA renders it a legal opinion.

Okay. Did you have time to reevaluate after each shot?

The officers again, the officers did not give us a statement, so I cannot speak on what they evaluated.

Would OC spray have been an efficient nonlethal option if you were within a reasonable distance for a knife?

If time and circumstances and other resources allow that, however, OC spray is not a 100% effective tool.

Isn't it correct that trespass call turned something else was for a belligerent woman?

There was female a involved in the call. Yes.

Do you feel that the amount of shots fired in a short amount of time frame was excessive?

Officers are trained to shoot and address a threat until the threat is no longer a threat.

When you saw Percy run around the car, shouldn't the shooting have stopped Tennessee versus Garner?

Again, if the officers perceived that there was still a threat, that was their decision based off their perception.

Do you feel handcuffing Percy while he was gasping for air delayed the medical attention he needed?

It is common and it is trained for officers if they feel that a person still needs to be secured for the officers and for medical staff to be safe. That is a common practice.

There were were there no clear verbal commands or time allowed to comply before gunfire?

There were verbal commands before the gunfire.

Isn't it true the first shot happened at the front of Ellen's car prior to him reaching the door?

You'd have to go back and watch the video specifically when and where they were. But Percy was within close range to officer Allen when shots were fired.

And would that have been shown on officer Salinas' body cam?

I don't from that specific angle, you probably wouldn't see you're not gonna see where officer Allen initially discharged his firearm. Okay. From Salinas' angle.

Your honor, that's all the questions.

Alright, mister Brooks, you have any additional ask this officer?

I have two, judge. And just to clarify, miss McNeil was just reading the questions as asked. The one question I wanted to ask, when you answered is, that that is, is, discussing OC spray versus a knife, was that just kind of hypothetically OC spray is a tool that can be deployed on scene?

Yes, it's an option.

Is a knife considered a lethal force? Yes. So, does an officer ever have to respond to lethal force with OC spray on principle?

No, it's not a requirement to escalate your levels of force. So, don't to start low and end high. You address the threat with what you feel is appropriate to bring a resolution.

That's that's only clear clarifications I want. Thanks, judge.

Mister McNeil, do you have any additional questions after this officer?

I don't, your honor.

The purpose of today's hearing was to present the public with the essential facts surrounding the death of Percy Hawkins. Monique McNeil was appointed by the Clark County manager as the ombudsman to represent the public and Hawkins and the Hawkins family. Miss McNeil was given an opportunity to ask questions to provide the public with relevant information regarding the issue of force in this case. I was appointed by the Clay County manager as presiding officer to preside over this public review. I too was given an opportunity to ask questions to provide the public with relevant information regarding the use of force.

Prior to today's public review, the Clark County District Attorney's Office provided to miss McNeil and myself copies of the law enforcement investigation regarding the death of mister Hawkins. The documents provided by the prosecution are considered public record. If you miss any proportion of this review or would like to obtain a recorded transcript, a video of the entire proceeding is available on the Clark County website at www.clarkcountynd.gov. That concludes the police fatality public fact finding review in the death of Percy Hawkins. Thank you.