Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Okay, we also have John Queenan, Melissa Foote, Dominic Briscoe. So we have a quorum. We don't have the minutes.

We're gonna have to skip that.

So just a quick note before we get started, I would like to thank Jackie Elfers for her service. She was a longtime planning board member and chairperson until just recently resigning. So I think we all owe her a lot of thanks and appreciation for all the hard work she did. So I just wanted to note that. This is the first meeting without her present. OK, so our first item is to just discuss MuniCollab under other business software system.

Yes, so right now where we are is I'm in the process of adding all of the existing projects that we have coming up. This is actually going to help out a lot I feel like currently, when we have an agenda, we have projects and applicants, I have to send to the planning board members separate emails. It could be a lot. This way, when we use MuniCollab, everybody will be alerted by an email. once the applicant has been given has submitted the information sent to the planning board members and everything will be up online also the great thing about it is that it's going to be i think it's going to be very helpful to the residents as well um it's going to be on the website we're going to have a press release that's going to come out soon um and there's also going to be training for the planning board members as well as town board members and also um members within the town like the clerk the assessors finance um it's it's just going to be a lot easier so instead of sending like five six seven emails to everybody with large stuff it's gonna be a much easier process so um By the next meeting, hopefully, the press release will have already been sent out and we'll all be on a good page.

Great. Thank you. Any questions? Okay, our first agenda item is work session for 450 Leroux Road. Lot line change, proposed driveway easement, new driveway garage. So if the applicants could step forward and present an overview.

so right over there there's also um yes so there were a lot of documents that were submitted um so i just if you could let me know what you want to pull up right now i have the survey but yes i think you should pull up our proposed design which would be uh sheet l2 all right so on that So it's this one. Not the survey, but it's here. This one, 1.2 conceptual lot line. Yes.

OK, so this is the conceptual plan. Up in the corner are the two. lots uh the the first one is has direct this is joan ostra's current house has direct driveway right onto larue road there's another drive that she owns another lot right behind her house that is a flag lot it currently has access and a driveway off of Spruce Hill Road and Joan would like to age and live in her house and right now there's several, it's one flight down to the driveway from the main part of the house. So she would like to put a new driveway in and parking area and she would access it this way and here's the parking area and she would put a garage right in this area. She would like to keep this lot behind for resale and perhaps her son would like to purchase a lot. Right now both lots are under the two acre and The lot that Joan's house is on is 1.2 acres. We're at 54,287 square feet. We're proposing to change the lot line from here to here. And it would result in the lot being 64,330 square feet. So it's approximately 10,000 square feet larger. than it is currently. And then the lot in the back owned by LaRue Road LLC, which Joan owns, would be reduced by the 10,000 square feet. So it would be from an existing condition of 1.9 acres, 82,992 square feet, to 72,949 square feet. So, we were wondering if the board would entertain such subdivisions and if so, we're happy to provide per test and all the other information needed in order to accomplish this.

I ask John Queen and our engineer to address first.

There is an easement, and we can provide that information.

Correct. I just want to make sure that that easement covers access from the parcel to the house.

Okay. Yes, we will confirm that.

The ones right up here? That was an existing condition that's been there since Joan built her house. But she would probably take it down anyway. Yeah. You were entertaining taking it down. area of the enormous section of the zone pillar, which gives them reduced setbacks. So that would just have to be sorted out. You know, you're extending the driveway into the .

yeah the desire is to do do it now so we would we would work out the details it's been it's been

98.9 just noted that based on available mapping it looks like there's some wetland areas there's several locations on the plan regarding drainage hiking Thank you.

the intent for the agency at this particular time.

Yes, that's correct.

I think that we submitted it. We submitted the survey for that property prior.

Yeah.

It's right there.

And that's coming off Spruce Court.

Yes. Yes, okay. Spruce Court goes through the third party line.

It's hard to get oriented, you know, at the inset.

Right. It's a driveway off of a driveway. Correct. Is that correct? It's off. Right. Yes. Okay. So the end of Spruce quarter is a cul-de-sac. Yes. And then there's someone's driveway and then these driveways will be off of that person's driveway.

That's correct.

Okay. Just making sure that I, yeah. Cause I had questions about that too.

Sorry. Sorry. Yes. Yes.

Mike, no questions. Anything else?

Yeah, I just wanted to, so it's, is the grading prohibitive for the flag lot to access LaRoe?

Yes.

Okay. Because I was wondering, I'm like, well, it's a flag lot. It has frontage on LaRoe, but I haven't been past there. It would require a very long driveway too. It's a long driveway, obviously, but it, you know, so it sounds like really the, the reason that you want to add that driveway off the driveway off the driveway now into the existing home property is for grading purposes so that it makes it easier to navigate yes to be able to put a garage here that would be on the same level as jones first floor of her house got it that way there's no no no no flight that you have to go up to get to the to the house correct which makes sense okay now i get it okay thank you sure no no other questions here thank you is there any do you need any other information from

No, I think that it's clear that we have to determine if you want to go to get a variance or whether we want to make sure that other lot is viable as a standalone lot with a septic. Because right now, we would have to make sure that there's adequate space for the leach field.

Right.

So that's a decision we'll make, whether to pursue the variance or pursue it after we figure out where we can get a leach field.

And to be honest, I think that analysis would be relevant both to the planning board and the zoning board.

Yeah, so it makes sense to go ahead with that first.

What I would suggest, though, as far as a matter of procedure in order is that the board could actually make a motion to refer them to the zoning board of appeals.

That way, once you complete your own analysis to your satisfaction, you could just make that

And assuming we get the area variances, it seems like this is a viable project. Because just so that Joan doesn't go and spend, you know, lots of money trying to figure this all out and then for the board to not like our concept or that's why we're here with the concept first.

The board is free to give feedback to them. You can't give the ultimate answer. We understand that.

But if they think there's a good possibility, that's why we want to attend this work session, to determine if we should proceed further.

The only concern that I have is the driveway easement, because what you're doing here for both of your clients' lots is relying on an easement through someone else's property. for both of those lines and if that is if you are comfortable with that that's a risk that you have to take right i mean it's not i don't want the board like future neighbor relations exactly i don't want that to be a problem that we get dinged for like oh you should have caught this that this was not really good um that's all i'm concerned about it's an at-risk kind of thing that you guys have to do completely right Oh, of course, of course. Right, right. No, I get that. And that's why I just wanted to bring it up because it seemed, it seemed as a person who might want to buy a piece of land, it's a concern, you know, that my driveway goes over somebody else's driveway and I want everything ironclad. But that's on you, not me. Understand.

Yeah.

True, true. There could be something done.

Yeah.

No.

That's good. Thanks, John. Chris.

Thank you.

there i mean we we can't make a commitment oh we understand we completely understand there's no hostility no we and you pointed out the points that we have to um analyze thank you um okay thank you very much Our next item is application for minor subdivision, Bell Station Corp. on Bell Bell Road.

Hi everybody, I'm Zach Lenches. I'm Brian's son. We kind of just want to reintroduce the project. It's been I don't know when the last time we were here. 2220 22 I think something like that with this with this one. Yeah, I know that the ports turned over so. Here will. Bring it up and I just got the email. Do you copy of that?

I think that we are missing a couple of pieces.

I think you might be missing two. I think I need page three. Yeah, I think I need page three.

We have one. Okay.

Can you zoom in to the front property? I just want to see something. Now, could you go to page three? Oh, there's two.

This one's three?

That's two. Yeah, go to three. It's a little more descriptive. okay so what we've done with the with the plans and everything is we had to do a archaeological study i know is that what you call it joe um they found so we this was originally four lot subdivision or five lot subdivision this lot here up in the front we just kind of gave up on because there was too many locus of identified remain indian flex um the second lot uh we're like like we're trying to keep that one and then this is a third lot and then a fourth line back here currently we're working on the avoidance plan as you see this section here has a bunch of fines in it um so we're just working on that now but this is our plan and if john wants to take her away

So I was trying to get oriented on the map. Yeah.

Somewhere between the last time you were here and today, Chippewa State Historic Preservation was hit on the property for potential archaeological resources, which we've undertaken. They call it a one study. It was a one study that came back positive. We did some further investigations and actually found

Yes.

And now they accepted the areas that you're trying to preserve and you're looking for an avoidance.

Correct.

So I guess in the interim from 22 to now, that required you to move for one month.

Yeah.

Now we're at a four lot subdivision of the same property. And looking at it, I don't know if a lot, I don't think you have a lot here.

I believe that's a lot. Two.

So that would be one new lot here.

opposing two flag lots, beginning over here.

One flag lot is this lot. Second flag lot comes to the rest of the property. The property also contains a They have a lot of range and size. This is kind of the AR thing, kind of just switching kind of confidence with anything.

that's where we're at and i just stopped back at the bc so to another jurisdiction kind of thing?

Well, it's a little convoluted because the state new wetland model control. So the informational wetland mapping that they provide now is informational. But those wetlands are now, those boundaries are used by the state to determine whether

So we'd have to rejuristic for this as well.

Well, you basically send it up.

Yeah, we just did it on Pond. Yeah.

I believe federal wetlands are still 25 feet, but streams are 50. And there cannot be any structures, I believe, within, I think, 100 feet.

So this one?

That one. I'll go . That's why the DC there is impossible. Stream. Oh, OK. Right. Zoning code has also been revised now with the requirement to calculate buildable lot areas as defined in the zoning code, which includes a subtraction of all lands that are not buildable, wetlands, floodplain, lands under water, with steep slopes, and these still have to be deducted. So that if you have a gross lot area, and you have a net, the net has to be .

What is steep?

I think it's greater than 30%, I believe. You have your consultant check. So for instance, one or two of those thoughts The property contains the cemetery, the burial ground, compliance code, different section of the code that requires a 100-foot area of no disturbance for structures, as well as it gives the planning board the discretion to basically require fencing, plantings, or visual screenings .

It's in a woods. It's all covered in trees.

And it's going to be right next to where the proposed driveway is.

There's a farm driveway there. It's been there for forever.

Correct. And that's where the new driveway will be for the flag lot. Yes. Is that correct? Correct.

It's the same driveway or next to it?

The driveway that is there was there. It was a farm road.

Right. Is that?

That's where the driveway is.

That's where the driveway is going to be.

Yeah.

The board's still depending on how much your grading is there or tree cover, they can still potentially require screening. You kind of need to demonstrate that lot three, which is the front yard setback typically measured from the rear lot line of the front parcel. So if that makes any sense. It's just that the way that the lot is shaped will have to determine where that measurement gets taken from. Comment six. in mind as we move this forward, whether you're going to want signage or fence or some other permanent boundary to that proper area. Soil testing is required to administer the septic systems, one per, one deep test per line.

What was missing is sheets three and four, which- We did the soil, we did some of that, but we're going to have to do it again anyway, so.

Okay. but i didn't see any information like sheets four and five which i believe have yeah the design well water testing should be considered for the project for the code in section 96. consisting of the required components of the general permit for stormwater will be required. Once I know what your area of disturbance is, that'll trigger what's required of us. Your jurisdictional wetlands and watercourses need to comply with section 98 of 13.1, those are the button offers and deductions to the zoning code. The board may wish to consider discussing a tree survey you'll need to submit or revise

Yeah, I just I was looking at the do we don't have a grading a proposed grading plan.

We have it. It's just not. We don't get some right.

Okay, that's fine. Because when john was talking about the calculations for buildable lot area. i'm looking at the grading on the existing grading on a couple of those lots especially that middle one is pretty severe there's it's a it's quite a slope in there and so that may cut down that may you may have to change your lot line to get the right area there and that's complicated because of the wetland and the stream everything so yeah that's that's a lot i don't know where that house is going to fit in but i i'm worried about that that's all that one yeah okay

All righty. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, we do have that. Okay. Oh, board discussion. Yes.

Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you. I just wasn't sure what we were discussing. I thought I had printed out the resolution.

I don't know if that was necessary for you.

Yeah, that was problematic. I think the issue on that one is whether or not they need to come back. I'm looking at that going, they're right.

Whether or not they need to defer to the building inspector.

Yeah, so our next item is discussion regarding 509 Belleville Road. The proposal changes to a warehouse off of Rue Road. So again, John, I'm going to just lean on you to give us the basics.

I think it's drained west to a pond. They moved that down and completely switched it to drain east. I just don't know if that creates any problem or if it ends up at the same point. I mean, I didn't really have all the information, but that to me was the bigger change than the locked doors.

Is it discharged onto the neighbor?

Yes.

Right, right. Besides the stormwater facility,

My only concern is that the neighbor, if erosion starts happening there, then the neighbor is not happy.

Or their analysis, they were reducing flows or whatever, keeping flows in check going one way and the other way, and now we're sending everything to a different spot. Or it could be there's an established

I was just looking at, is there a neighbor on that side? Because it goes downhill, it gets a little bit wet, and then you hit the railroad tracks. I'm just looking at... I know they're on control of this property.

So usually you want to avoid a pipe discharge.

Sure, yeah.

That's the only thing. resolutions had at the bottom, like this shall expire in so many years or so many months. It's usually about three years. Until I see the original resolution.

So what if the code changes? Does that trigger?

I take your point. That is a much bigger issue then. Yes. Anybody have any thoughts on that?

I'd like to know why the change in the drainage was made.

Yeah, so sorry, we're just passing out some very important figures here. And I would think that we at least have a couple of the questions answered before we decide what to do next. I would think so, too. In drainage in particular. Yeah.

So can we ask for that?

Or maybe you have to resubmit, just ask for answers to those questions.

I mean, you know, You could go either way, you could ask them to provide more information and that way you can

or you can make a decision. I would ask for the further information. Oh, yeah. I would too.

So would that be like at the next meeting where we have another discussion or would it just be like me as the secretary sending out?

You know, I think since he's the building inspector, probably the best thing for him would be to reach out directly

direction from us without taking action.

Well, if he deems it just to be a field change and it's acceptable, then it's within his purview to do that. right yeah right you may have a reason why yeah details like uh you know what's what's the flow coming out of that maybe it maybe it's negligible correct right or it might be you know we didn't want it you know and the pond the pond is there but that's on the other side of the property line isn't it someone else's it comes just on his yeah corner so you know

Is there any other business?

Motion to answer executive session.

well the good news is that people planted all those and they keep growing so they are a renewable resource we're ready okay um i'm gonna do we need a motion of this yeah motion to motion to come back into vote come out of the executive session all those in favor aye Those two adjourn. I'll make a motion.

Second?

Okay. All those in favor? Aye. Motion to adjourn.