City Council - Regular Meeting

Let me All right. Like to call this December 2nd meeting of city council to order. Madam clerk, will you please call the role? Council member Greg, Council Member Sheileely here, Council Member McBride, Council Member Mitchell, Council Member Brady, Council Member Gregory, Council Member Wearing, Council Member Seekings, Council Member Tinkler, Council Member Bowen, Council Member Appel, Council Member Parker, Mayor Cogwell.

Here, I'd now like to ask Council Member Mitchell to give the invocation and lead everybody in the pledge of allegiance. Let's bow our heads. In the 133rd song, you'll find these words recorded. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to death well together unity. It's like the precious ointments upon the head that ran down upon the beard, even their spirit that went down to the skirts of his garments as the do of Herman and as do descend upon the mountain of Zion. For there the Lord command the blessings even life forever more. Let us all be able to assist our brothers and sisters and who is in harm's way and who's less fortunate in this community. And let us thank God for giving us the strength to sit here and make decisions on our brothers and sisters and let us make the decisions that's going to be pleasing in his sight. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Okay, there are no presentations or recognitions tonight, so we're going to move on into public hearings. There are four public hearings. two regarding the distribution of funds from the municipal accommodations fee and two for the general fund expenditures and revenues. Madam clerk, how many people do we have signed up to speak on this? We have two.

All right, we'll give uh a minute each and uh go from there. Well, before we have speak, I just want to remind everybody the rules of decorum. We ask that you be respectful. This is not a question and answer. We're here to hear you on these issues. Um, if anybody does not adhere to the rules of decorum, excuse me, rules of decorum, I will give you one warning. Second warning, you'll be asked to leave. So, madam clerk, please call the first speaker.

All right. And what was the time again? I'm sorry. One minute. All right. Anthony G. Bryant. I can't stop the mics up. Get this mic up. I can't get it up. It's not my job to get it up. We're getting a minute. Need I need to get it up high so I can hear you can hear me. That's enough. Good. All right. Anthony G Bryant 2123 Courtland Avenue 29403 President AG Bryant Group Inc. Now someone's in in 80 80% of this budget is law enforcement. That would be the Social Security Administration Act. That would then be the DSS. That would then be that I got adopted from Bank of America. 80% of your budget. That's 10 to 20 years in prison for me. Take this. Get this in the mayor. Come on. Who's that? Who's going to give it to him? It's your job. Give it to him. Is that your job to give it to him? Give it to him. Now, let's get serious for a second. In terms of his budget, of $18 million or ILA or whoever, you've got a billionaire. Ben Nvar's got a billion dollars. Pier Mano got a multi-million dollars. And all them getting corre all these all this money in here. your 300 your your your billion your $700 million off. You only collected $300 million. You have $700 million in the budget. You're not collecting enough money to collect more money. You go to the county begging for for resing the debt to pay their taxes.

Muhammad Mr. Adris, did you need to speak? Okay. All right. Was there anyone else who needed to speak for the budget public hearing? We'll have citizens participation later. This is just on the budget. All right. Those are all the speakers that we have. Okay.

Um, I now need um motion to approve or any any questions on the excuse me um u the public hearings. Any other comments from council members? And Mr. Mayor, just a reminder, items three and four were amended during Ways and Means. Okay. So, can I entertain a motion? Move for adoption of one through four as amended on three and four. Second. We have a motion made probably second. Any further discussion on this? If none then all in favor signify by saying I. Opposed? Eyes have it. Um now I'd like to get a motion for approval of council minutes.

Second. Motion made properly seconded. Any further discussion? If not, all those in favor signify saying I. Opposed? Eyes have it. We're now on to citizens participation uh which is 30 minutes. How many people do we have? We have 13. All right. So, give everybody a minute. Uh 13. Again, just remind those that are here uh for citizens participation to adhere to the rules of decorum. Look forward to hearing from you. Madame clerk, please call the first speaker.

All right. We will start with our in-person list first. Anthony G. Bryant. And the time is one minute. I know I just unpopular until my mama died. I'm extremely unpopular. And when when someone's at your mama's wake, you didn't even know the fact that you were being investigated observed for your speech and your opposition to the county, to the state, and the feds. Now, what's going to happen in 2030 is we going to have one black person, right? One black person or council saying Julian Divine was the first black man here and Aaron Poke K may be the last. Quit playing with us. Quit playing with black people. This is a total organized effort to wipe us out. Anybody who talk against you, Benaro and all the boys will put you in prison. I bear witness to those documents of that. You want me in jail. Thank you very much. I'm the hope and dream of a slave.

Lisa Jones.

Um, hi. Good evening, Mayor Cogwell and council members. I'm Lisa Jones, director of advocacy at Historic Charleston Foundation. Thank you for the opportunity to once again share our thoughts on the Charleston County sales tax referendum, the potential 2026 tax. As a nonprofit advocacy organization focused on community, culture, people, and places, we support the city's list of road and drainage projects on the peninsula to be funded by the transportation sales tax. Historic Charleston Foundation supports improvements to Lockwood Drive, Hagot Avenue, East Bay Street, Morrison Drive, and the Calhoun Street corridor, as well as design improvements to Hugi Street that improve the pedestrian experience. These improvements have the potential to increase our city's livability and the quality of life for everyone. In general, we support investments in transportation projects that improve resilience, drainage, walkability, connectivity, and good urban design across the city. We are hopeful to place our support behind a county referendum, but we need for it to be specific, transparent, well planned countywide, and our support will be contingent on green space funding, bike and pedestrian projects, transit and trans Charles Wilson, Mr. Mayor and members of council for time tonight. Um, I'm speaking about Zero Folly Road, the annexation, but I'm not actually speaking on that. I'm here in response to it. The last time, uh, this came up, I went on my one week vacation for the year, returned home to tires on my truck and then a few days later a center block through my car open. Today I came home and there were multiple reporters out on the front of my property. I live at 1614

Grimble Road Extension. It's the corner of Folly and Grimble so it often gets confused. Um the hysteria, lack of property rights, uh expectation, understanding and the drainage on Grimmel extension my opinion is what's caused all these issues. Uh banks construction repaved our road three years ago and the flooding has gotten a lot worse since they were supposed to come back and excavate the ditches which previously and the majority of the road have not been done in 30 years. My property is at the end of the road. All the water from the road should drain to my property. It does not. We have an ongoing maintenance problem on Grimble Extension. We do not have a flooding problem and I'm hoping that somehow we can get that result.

Charlene Green.

Good evening everyone. My name is Charlene Green. I serve as counsel for a portion of heirs who own the property that's considered heirs property. Um my clients are the um heirs of the late Johnny Moltry and we are actually in support of the development. I believe that council for the developer Mr. Ellis Leon will be addressing you later. My clients though stand behind the project 110%. These individuals have been caught up in litigation for nearly believe a decade now and they're ready for some resolution. We believe very strongly that the project supports the spirit of the area itself as well as the overall intention of utilizing this land for its highest and best use. So on behalf of the heirs of Johnny Maltry, we are in support of the project and we hope that you will lend your favor. Thank you.

Josh Dixs.

Hi, my name is Josh Dixs. I live at 640 Rage Avenue and I came tonight first say thank you for putting together the TST list. We this is something that our region desperately needs and we appreciate y'all uh you know taking the leadership on this when a lot of other councils are still scratching at the surface. And uh mayor I want to say thank you for the project 3500. I think that's the right type of ambitious goal that we need. Uh we need to rightsize our zoning to allow for that type of private investment to come into Charleston. But these are the types of things that we're going to have to do to address the challenges that are coming our way. So, just want to say thank you for what y'all are doing and appreciate y'all service. Thanks,

Rhonda Walters.

Good evening. Thank you for this opportunity. Um, I'm Rhonda Walters. I care dearly about my neighbors, um, the community, and our future. I want to be clear that I'm not opposed of improvements or development, but I firmly believe that government residents and develop developers can work to create create solutions that are beneficial, balanced, and sustainable. Um, specifically, I am opposed to zero folly road and grimble road, the annexation until some things get fixed. Uh these things are strain on existing infrastructure, the risk of rapidly ex escalating density, significant traffic increases, environmental consequences, regulatory circumvention concerns, and increased flooding and drainage. Annexing this property without addressing these issues will severely disrupt longstanding grass long-standing grassroot residential community. I respectfully ask city council to deny or delay again the annexation at a minimum minimum to urge uh and to require the developer and architect to relocate entrance from Brimble Road extension to Folly Road. So the burden will not be on the residents but be on the governing body state local and um our state officials. Thank you,

Ellis Lesman.

Good evening, uh, ladies and gentlemen of council. Uh, my name is Ellis Leman. I'm here on behalf of the applicant relating to the zero uh, Folly Road annexation. Our ask is for your support of that annexation. And I want to explain to you briefly the purpose. The purpose of the annexation is simply to bring the project within a single jurisdiction. Uh Miss Charlene Green on behalf of the Moltry AI spoke in favor of it. I know Mr. Wilson and I've met with him before. I also want to speak briefly to Miss Walters. Um this project has been through six rounds of TRC review. It complies with special protection area requirements. It will be helpful for drainage. And also in terms of the access that's done in coordination with DOT and it's done to basically balance that uh Folly Road and Grimble Road. Um there are many attributes of the project. I've communicated with many of you about it. Again, you've all given a lot of thought. Everyone's had patience. The families had patience. The city's had patience as we've gone through it. It's a carefully designed and considered project that I know the city will recognize and does recognize. It's better to have time of a juris of a project like that in a single jurisdiction uh rather than having it split with the county. So, thank you all for your time and your consideration. Jonathan Alman, Mr. Mayor and members of council, I'm Jonathan Alvin. I represent Donna White who is one of the Moly family heirs. This property is she's this property has been in the Moly family since 1904, over 125 years. There are 60 heirs that have been parties to this litigation that's gone on for 14 years. This is an unusual opportunity for these heirs. This this is generational change for these 60 folks as they've gone through this process. We're talking home ownership. We're talking college

education. This is a a legacy to these folks ancestors that struggled to hold on this property at times when it was incredibly difficult to do so. So, I'd ask for everybody to consider the impact that this sale can have not only on the community, but on these this family that struggled for the last 125 years to hold on to it. And I hope you consider that. And I speak in support of the annexations. Thank you. And now we're going to move on to our online list. If you are joining online, you can press star six to unmute yourself. Lisa Parker,

Jerome Harris.

Good evening. Jerome Harris. I am the co-chair of the human affairs and reconciliation commission. I'm speaking on item N2, which is an omnibus ordinance uh that has multiple components. Um but by introducing the single ordinance you will not give us the opportunity to examine what each of the components are um regarding minority business set aside. So minority business program human affairs emerilation commission and the questions regarding compliance with federal state regulations. I'm asking that this body be on record as to why these amendments are needed and what their impacts are anticipated. uh it is uncustomary for this body not to take ordinances through committee process. This has not u these issues particularly in terms of the reau authorization of the park commission has been under discussion with the mayor and members of council for uh the last 12 months. Uh unfortunately this ordinance appeared uh on the agenda u with no opportunity for uh our body to address it uh nor as I think the minority business uh advisory committee urge you to defer to it at this time. Eene Dhy.

Good evening, council members. My name is Eileen Dhy. I live at 1650 Bryce Road directly across from zero folly road and the proposed Gribble Road assemblage. I want you to picture what my family experiences during heavy rain. Bryce Road transforms into a rushing river. Standing water floods Grimble Road extension. Ditches overflow because they're not properly maintained. And our yards become impromptu retention ponds on a regular basis. This is what happens when we approve development without fixing existing infrastructure issues first. And now you're being asked to annex a property specifically to bypass county protections designed to prevent town homes in floodprone areas like ours. I've been speaking up about this development for eight years. Seven years ago, developers came to our house with contracts in hand trying to solve their drainage issues. If they're still struggling with storm water planning after all this time, that should tell you something. Please don't make our flooding worse. Vote no on this annexation. Thank you. And that was everyone that we had signed up. We did receive some comments online. We had 55 comments in opposition to the annexation of Zero Folly Road. We received one comment and three letters of support um three letters in support of the annexation of Zero Folly Road. We received one comment in support of funding at the Calhoun Corridor improvements through the county transportation sales tax. One comment was received in support of requesting the Charleston Housing Authority to name 275 Huji Street in honor of Council Member Robert Mitchell. We received two comments requesting deferral of the ordinance amending HARK and NWBE and requesting that it be reviewed by a standing committee. And we received one comment in support of adding Judge Arthur McFarland's name to the Ruben Greenberg Municipal Building. And that was just a summary of the comments. All the comments in full were sent to council before the meeting.

Thank you, madam clerk. [clears throat] Um that concludes uh public comment or citizen participation. We are now on to petitions and communications. We have one appointment for commission on arts, Michael Smith, who is the CEO of the Charleston Symphony. Can I entertain a motion for this new appointment? Motion made, properly seconded. All those in favor signify by saying I. Opposed. Eyes have it. Thanks to Mr. Smith for his willingness to serve. We now uh next item is community risk assessment standards of cover for the fire department uh which is being brought straight to council due to time constraints. Can I entertain a motion for this?

Move for approval. Second.

Motion made, properly seconded. All those in favor signify by saying I. opposed eyes have it. Um we're now on to the presentation on the final TST priority package. Uh this should be um old information for a lot of you, but just do want to get it all into one package. Uh the plan will be to um send this off to the county within the next two weeks. Let me just go through briefly. um what those priorities are. So there we go. Working now. Uh so again, we all know that the uh TST is projected to raise about 4.2 billion. City of Charleston's approximately uh 50% of that, a little under. So when we were establishing a general budget for what we didn't want to go over so we're not getting more than our fair share so to speak you know taking money from North Charleston or Mount Pleasant we used the number of approximately $2 billion. Um we tried to break this somewhat down by population but also really took into account where we have growth projected to occur um uh in certain areas and we can provide those projections here. We're it's still a bit of a work in progress. Um these are just talking This is an interesting slide that I think is you haven't seen yet, but uh we we'll send this around. It just talks about the commuting patterns for a lot of different um uh areas and parts of the city, how many people in in the county really, how many commute in versus how many commute out. It's pretty astonishing and a few examples. Um and part of our effort, this just highlights

that we need to bring employees closer to jobs and we need to uh bring um housing closer to jobs. That that's a much cheaper way than spending hundreds of millions of dollars on infrastructure. Um so here are the priorities that uh the final list and this is again largely for just road improvements. Uh but on John's Island, we've got the Maybank widening. This is really an ongoing effort that's happening now. We hope this will, you know, be done in advance of the 26 sales tax, but this is widening um the the lane on going off of John's Island between uh River Road and the bridge so that you don't get that backup at at Fenwick. Um but then getting into the more uh u future uh developments that are needed may bankank southern pitchfork and roundabout so that there's better flow there. Uh the main road at Maybank Chisum to plow ground making significant improvements there based on some county plans that um have been presented as well as uh other neighborhood groups on the island. And we've got Maybank Main Street improvements. This is really from River Road to uh Main Road or Bohickot and it's safety improvement, sidewalks, uh intersection improvements and then also shoulder widening and intersections on River Road. So, um that kind of sums up the the efforts on John's Island, James Island, um Folly and Maybank turn lane. This is something again that probably we're hoping to fund sooner rather than later or might not need to be part of the TST effort itself, but that's adding where you you can turn not only in the right lane coming off of the Maybank bridge, but the left lane, the middle lane as well, turning onto

Maybank. Um, just all you need to do there is reduce the uh the plant median there to allow that turn radius. Riverland Drive and Maybank intersection. That's one that's been discussed um at length making it more safe. Harbor View Road partial raising and other safety improvements. And then of course Folly Road improvements and uh complementing the RSA uh work that the DOT is moving forward on Peninsula Road projects, Lockwood Drive and Hood improvements. Um that is primarily flooding related to keep water off the road. um uh but would have uh uh pretty significant impacts on those major arteries in and out of the peninsula. East Bay, Concord and Morrison Drive. Again, primarily flooding um related infrastructure needs. Calhoun corridor again this is a routine [laughter] conversation particularly uh not really across the city but potential especially downtown. flooding improvements on the Calhoun corridor to protect the medical district, but also some road safety improvements as well. And then UG Street improvements and that would be connecting um ultimately the battery extension on an east west corridor uh primarily for bike ped and making that much more pedestrian friendly and safe uh for folks. Um uh of course again we don't want to want to make sure that these are the what we've just gone over are the road projects alone. Um we are working on and working with many of you all on specifics for green belt projects with bike pad projects with sidewalk and paving projects. Those are going to be um because they're not generally speaking not major uh initiatives. these would be more ongoing, but do want to get kind of a master list on that so that we can again send that to the city to the county uh just to let them know

what our priorities are and what our needs are in addition to the list that we already share with them and work with them on. Um so uh again, we we're looking to have each of y'all's input on that for the final package. But in terms of the ballot initiatives that would be defined on the ballot, at least right now, it would be mainly focused on road improvements, uh, and then, uh, general percentages or or, uh, support for these other efforts as well. Uh, Councilman Sheileley, did West Ashley get left off? What?

Yeah, they're fine. Um, no. Uh good call there. Um we got some IT issues here. I uh so West Ashley is in there. We will make sure uh that is circulated, but it is the Magwood fly over at Glen McConnell. It is 61 improvements. It is um road safety improvements to um I believe Oldtown and then pretty significant improvements u intersection improvements um uh safety improvements uh to US7 in widening as well. So it is actually the largest share of our allocation. So not sure huh 1.115 uh in terms of allocation. So thank you for catching that um because that would have been a little embarrassing. That's a That's a typo here. Um,

yes. Um, when we say Highway 61 improvements, which which part of 61?

So, it would be a couple things. One is we need to raise 61 coming off of the bridge because it's underwater uh pretty uh routinely. And then also, um there are uh again road complements to the road safety audit that was done by DOT. You know, they would be doing certain safety improvements. We would want to be making sure that those are complemented with beautifification efforts uh so that it's um not raised concrete medians and the like. It would be more akin to what you see on the c the September Clark Parkway as well as uh US7 North in Mel Pleasant. Okay. Yes, sir.

I I'm doing a mind mail with council women Parker. Um is anything in there for Rethink Folly Road? Well, yes. If Go ahead, Counciloman Parker like me too. So the safety project that he's discussing with SCDOT that plays a big role in Rethink Folly, but yes, I mean I the county I'm sure as they funded and phase one is supposed to be started already, but I believe that'll tie in as well. Yeah. But thank you for double checking on me.

Sheila had already got me on West Ash. My finger my finger was like this. Right. Right. Um, again, one of the other things that I just wanted to mention here too in terms of we've been we've been having very constructive and positive discussions with a lot of the advocacy agencies and conservation groups and I think we're very much aligned in terms of priorities for green belt funding and uh really looking at uh protecting the urban growth boundary and and making strategic moves um along you know around the outer ring and truly creating a green belt around uh the city of Charleston really going from the Ashley River um uh to the northern part of the city uh all the way down around to James Island and to the harbor. So um you know this just gives a visual of kind of the general area that we're looking to target properties for this green belt initiative. Um and of course there would be also infill opportunities for parks and u strategic purchases there for urban infill, greenfield spaces, parks and the like. Um these are just here you go. West Ashley's on there. See we didn't forget it. Uh uh but but this just highlights some of the roads. Um what we're doing here is you're seeing some of the first drafts that our uh civic design center is putting together so we can have visuals to complement um and data to complement the uh uh priority the the just the road projects themselves when we submit so that it's pretty clean and clear as to what we're talking about. Uh next steps are again we're looking to uh validate pricing generally speaking. I mean this is these are not fully designed most of these. So um we're trying to just make sure that we're not way off um in terms of general budget pricing. I think it's important we talked about working with the um our

community partners and the advocacy groups on these uh smaller items which again don't mean to be dismissive over and they're equally as important. It's just uh there's a lot more of them to list and and go through. So looking forward to working with advocacy groups on that. And there's been real I'll give compliments to the those I mean a lot of these groups that there seems to be um organization and thoughtfulness going into this and um I think that'll result in a comprehensive plan and strategy that will be um well received by voters come next November. So we just again want to complement their efforts. Uh and then finally, as I mentioned earlier, uh one of the major next steps is we're going to sit down, I think in the next two weeks, I'm not sure the date has been set, um with other municipalities like uh Folly Beach, Lake, uh town of James Island, the public service districts, and the like just to make sure that we're kind of collectively aligned because our roads impact them and and u we want to be good neighbors and good partners. So, um, with that, we'll then submit a final package for you all to review, um, at the next council meeting and that we will then submit to county council for, um, what our priorities are. Any further questions on this?

I just have a quick question, Mr. Mayor. Can you go back to that um, graphic you showed where in and out, the commuting in and out? I think it was like second or third. It goes backwards. I don't know. Sometimes. Shoot. Can we go back? Anybody? There we go. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. One more. Two more. There we go. There we go. So, two questions. One is how do we compile that data? Where does that come from? [laughter] The cog. The cog.

Council. Okay. I mean, it's really it's super fascinating to see sort of the movement around the city of Charleston. There's a ton of movement and the importance of the interconnectivity. And I obviously I live and represent the peninsula, but if you look on the peninsula numbers, it shows 50,000 in and 9,000 out every day. On top of that is another 25,000 tourists every day. So you got 75,000 in every day on top of a population of 25,000. I mean, it's really important. And I think you think about the little stuff like sidewalks, how important sidewalks are in and around the peninsula and getting flooding relief when you got 75,000 people a day coming in.

No, it's inc. It's pretty fascinating information and I think one of the things when we talk about the sales tax initiative, uh I think that is often misunderstood is, you know, a lot of people hear the word tax and they're just like, you know, I don't want any more taxes. But um in terms of we're in a bit of a unique situation here in that we have so many people tourists of course that come in and fund help fund our sales tax but the COG has some great data here that's relevant um in that Dorchester and Berkeley County have a significant number of out migration into Charleston County for work. So people that live in Dorchester and Berkeley County come to Charleston County to work and they buy gas and they go shopping and they eat lunch and and so that's when you combine those two. Um the county has uh a statistic that says almost half of the sales tax funding that would be generated is funded by non-residents.

Right.

So you know we're getting a roughly 50% discount for our road improvements. And as we've all discussed and I do want to give a shout out to you, Councilman um seekings for shephering the four transportation meetings where these were were vetted uh over the past six six to eight weeks. um that this is our primary for uh funding source for our roads and traffic I think we can all agree is the number one complaint we get understandably from our all of our constituents no matter where you live in the city. So um this is the solution to it. This is the funding mechanism and it's it's incumbent on us to again be very organized and thoughtful about um presenting our priorities to the county. So I appreciate the effort. Yes, ma'am.

Thank you, M. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. On that point, I am curious. I know this is a a little deep, but I I can't help myself. Um, Fi's numbers that seems a little low from what I've heard from at other meetings are and and are they taking into account our James Island? I mean, there's only one way to folly, right? I'm just curious the statistic. It might help because this is something we struggle with on the state level is there's only one way to fally and obviously the tourists. The beach creates a an enormous impact to those roads. Yeah.

Which James Island is majority residential. Um so I'm curious how the COG identified those. I know I'm looking at you. Um I'm I'm curious how the COG identified those numbers and if there's something if they can get a little deeper into that because that nitty-gritty you know those numbers I mean it just seems seems light on folly because we've heard higher numbers from meeting um we're glad to work with and COG's been very um very open and and transparent about getting us the information.

It's wonder and it's wonderful information. I guess I'm just also trying to put the the spin out there for James Island is that there's only one way to folly. So are those is our eight are our 8K compliment, you know, is that included with Folly's numbers? Am I making sense? In terms of the population, I understand that we're saying 8K is coming to James, you know, coming to James Island. But what's coming through because that thorough, you know, that road is a big What is the road harvesting? Right. I hear Yeah, great point.

If you look at West Ashley, the same thing. You got the same number of people in and out. You think, okay, well that's static. Well, actually it's the exact opposite. You got movement all the time, all day long through West Ashley. And for James Island, they take the brunt of all those people who are coming to Folly Beach. The number that's surprising me is I didn't think anybody ever left Folly Beach. They just stayed there all the time. Edge of America, baby. Um, that's right. Okay. So, this is with the uh amended version to make sure that uh West Ashley is included in this. I would like to have a motion that we move forward with this general um list with the final package to come for um Yep. for uh for uh the next council meeting.

Motion made. I get a second. Second. Motion made. Probably second. Appreciate everybody's work on this. No further discussions. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. I. Opposed. Eyes have it. Now I got to figure out where I am. All right. All right, we're on council communications. I'd like to call on council member Wearing.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, I want to thank you and the colleagues for item that Council Member McGregor and I put on to recognize honorable former judge, municipal judge. I guess once a judge, always a judge. Uh, Arthur McFarland. Um, in uh consideration of adding his name to our municipal complex. Uh, I withdrew that earlier today because being the frankly gentleman that he is. Um, back in the day I used to be a pretty good wrestler. Um, so he didn't offer to get in a wrestling match with me, but he did get in a debate with me and uh, I lost. Um he served uh as municipal judge for a total of almost 34 years but served as the chief municipal judge for north of 31 years uh for the city. So Mayor Rally was mere 40 years and for almost uh not quite but almost 34 years Arthur McFaren was either the municipal judge or as I said north of 31 years the chief municipal judge. Now go back to the period of time of Charleston. Charleston wasn't like it is now. Okay? Charleston was great need of revitalization, public safety. We did not have a police a professional police force as we do today under Chief Walker. When um when uh Chief Greenberg was brought, it [clears throat] was earthshattering. Um but crime was certainly a priority as it is today. But converting that police force from what it was to I believe today we have over 90 percentile of our um and our chief is here but over 90 percentile of our police force has a college degree or better. Every city can't tout that.

Okay. Um, Judge McFarland came to me and said, "The significance of Mayor Rally and Chief Ruben Greenberg working together should never be undermined." And he thought it would somehow detract adding his name to the municipal complex. Um, he even reminded me that he was the keynote speaker at the event that recognized uh, Chief uh, Greenberg. [clears throat] uh they have a family relationship in that his daughter uh Arthur McFarland's daughter uh he and his wife's daughter is uh Chief Greenberg is actually uh his the godfather and Chief Greenberg never had any children. So after taking a mental weapon like that, you know, I uh I withdrew uh and it's called Councilman uh Gregor withdrew the uh nomination, but it shows you the quality and integrity of the of the judge. Um somehow I know we'll come up with uh something that's um a proper recognition for the judge. And the reason I say that is 33 years of um being on a bench in one of Charleston's most historic cities should never go unrecognized. And to date it has gone unrecognized. So, um, instead of one person thinking about it, maybe I'll get, uh, as a matter of fact, um, when I spoke to the clerk about the withdrawal, she, um, she to and I told her I lost the debate. She said, "Well, now you know why he was a chief municipal judge for more than 31 years." But anyway, I I I I would solicit not only the 13 members of council, obviously led by the mayor, but um let's think of something

magnanimous to name after Judge Arthur Mcfallen. So, uh I told him, we go to the same church. Uh we part of the Catholic mafia in this town, but I um I told him he's going to need to go to confession for the way he abused me yesterday. in that in that debate. But anyway, um uh so thank you for the consideration, but I'm sure we'll be coming back with something that would be more appropriate. One thing that he did bring out, and he's brought this out to me before, but on the sign that says uh the Greenberg Municipal Complex, it doesn't say Ruben Greenberg. You know, we had a number of famous Greenbergs in this town. Actually, Ray Ray Greenberg was president of medical university

for a number of years. So, which Greenberg are we talking about? I think it would be very appropriate. I don't think we have a portrait to u Chief Ruben Greenberg in the municipal complex. So, if we can make those corrections moving forward, I I'm sure uh the judge would be very happy with that. But, we'll be back with something and hopefully we'll have more of a combination. And when I do enter the next debate with him, it won't be by myself. There we go. Thank you.

Well, I I think it's a it's a absolute worthy effort. Appreciate you bringing it to everyone's attention. Look forward to working with you on an appropriate uh um opportunity uh for Judge McFarland and to honor his years of service and continued service because he's still very much engaged in the community and certainly will work on uh figuring out how to make sure uh Chief Greenberg is Ruben Greenberg is properly recognized in the building that houses his name. U. So, thank you for those comments. Um, there's one one other item on the agenda. Um, Council Member Appel called me about proper recognition for our colleague, Council Member Mitchell. Uh, and speaking with Council Member Mitchell, um, and talking to him about 200 275 Hug Hug Street or 275 Hugi Street, he reminded me that he once lived there as a as a young man. uh he lived in that housing complex and he just said not too long ago that um he's very serious about affordable housing. He put his life into affordable housing. Um and he's a Quincy example of a person that needed affordability, moved out with his career, bought himself a house on the peninsula that he still lives in. Actually, it's not too far, right around the corner uh from this location. And so obviously it's the housing authorities u property but uh council member pel and myself and certainly others here uh would like to have a resolution going forward to the housing authority to uh bestow the name

of council member Robert Mitchell on 275 Calhoun Street which is a 30 plus million dollar uh housing complex that uh will be part of the project 35 numbers. So, um, now we could have done that without him being around the table and done this in January and all of that, but, uh, it's nothing like having your colleagues recognize you while you are in their midst. So, Councilman um Mitchell, 24 years, and I I would tell you all to I ask you all to reflect on your years of service knowing the time that it takes. Um you've been there almost two years, right? Uh it takes a little bit of time. Uh it gets beyond you don't do it for this uh compensation. anybody who uh offers uh the themselves for public service uh you do for the love of your community. Um and some of the ways that council member Mitchell and before him uh council member um Lewis, I mean they are out on these streets 2 and 3:00 in the morning in particular when tragedy occurs and family needs them at the very most. Um so that kind of respect um do you have the words to give? Um you thank God that that type service came your way because it could have been done in somebody else's community. So we do this to congratulate uh and we offer this to congratulate uh and for other generations to know that a good man came this way. Thank you very much. That is my motion.

Motion made, properly seconded. Welld deserved. Any further discussion? If none, all those in favor signify by saying I.

I. Mr. Mayor and my um colleagues, I thank you all for that. But I mentioned to them that I don't need nothing named after me. And they said, "Oh, no." I said, "I don't want anything named after me." I said you know God have blessed me right now Mr. Mayor get a little full. But I started in this journey when I was 14 years old. I marched with King. I marched with Abani. I marched with Carz Scott King. The last march I was on was the nursery strike in 1969. And that's when uh they had the curfew. So I always been in the community always thinking of others, not myself. And that's the way I was and I'm still that way. That's why they see people I'm out in the community 1:00 1:30 and anytime something happened in the community, someone a suicide or homicide, there's nothing I can do personally because I'm not the policeman. I'm not a police officer. But I let the family know that I'm concerned. That's a human being lying on that street. And if I don't hear about it, Mr. Jones will call me and say, "You hear about this?" They said, "No." He said, "There's something happening. I'm out there. I'm not asking nobody to do what I do." That's what something I wanted to do. I always consider myself as a community person, strictly community. There's nothing big about me. I'm right from

what they call back of the green or gats and green. That's where I grew up. But I have seen so much things happen in the community. And we have to be out there and be concerned about others, not about the self. So when they mention talking about naming thing, I said I don't need nothing to name about me. I said the legacy I'm leaving behind is going to be there forever. I said everything in district 4, my hands was on it. It's not for me, it's about community. So I tell my colleagues here, it's not about us sitting here. It's about the people we are serving. We are only a servant of the community. And the most high have placed us here to make decisions of our brothers and sisters which is everyone. So we are supposed to be good servant of the community. And I always mention to you all you all heard me say if you think you're not going to be a good servant get up your seat and go home and that goes for me too. So that's why I run 100% in the evening at night and people say you need to stay home. My sisters and brothers and said, "Bobby, get up for that council. You've been there doing too much." I said, "No, not yet. I'm" I said, "God will tell me when it's time and it's time. It's time for me to sit down and relax and move on." And that's what I'm going to do. I'll be here. I'll be around. But we as council member and my colleagues say, "I'm just going to see keep serving. We have a long way to go. Things are changing a lot. But we have to be about the changes that's happening to and make sure that we are all in this together. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. And too late on the uh renaming, sir. [laughter] Yes, council. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just wanted to follow that up and with what you said. I mean, I'm on my way out as well in my four years. I'll get choked up, but it has been an honor to serve with you. I mean, 24 years. Um, it's a true testament to what you mean to this city and what this city means to you. And it it has truly been an honor to serve with you. So, thank you.

All right. Um, moving on now, we've got a few more items to go through tonight. Um, we've got consent agenda items. There are three committee reports. Um, no, we got we got special facilities, human resources, and TNT. No actions really needed on these. Um, anything any of the chairpersons want to comment on that? Um, now we'll move on to committee reports then. If not, um, we've got, let's see, I'll call on Councilman Mitchell for community development. community development committee. We met and we had uh on the uh I got on November 20th. Now along with the community development, we also had a council workshop dealing with the so far as affordable units. So on on the community reports you'll see one two and uh I think it was uh six they was approved unanimously by the committee and then we got into the 3500 uh so far as affordable housing piece that the mayor explained explained the same thing he explained a few minutes ago going to the county pertaining to 995 993 and 995 Morrison Drive and also getting in touch with the uh ILA but the property on Morrison Drive. So these are the things that happening during the um immunity development. So if anything else have uh Mr. Mayor, you have anything else to say pertaining to that?

I think we covered a lot of it earlier. Right. That's what I was saying. So I move for approval. Ask someone to give a motion for the approval for the uh my committee report. So second all those in favor signify by saying I opposed. Eyes have it. Now, while Councilman uh Chairman Greg's out on ways and means, I'll ask Vice Chair Seekings to provide the report. I just move for adoption of the report as amended and then as amended. We have a motion made, properly seconded. As amended as amended, all those in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed, eyes have it.

And that concludes all of the first readings. Yep. All right. So now we are on to uh second readings. We got 24 bills up for uh second reading. Items, 23 and 24 are as amended. Um we can take uh all these together. If I could get a motion. U motion made for approval.

As amended. We have a motion made, properly seconded. All those in favor signify by saying I. Opposed. Eyes have it. Third reading on those items as amended. Motion made properly seconded. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Eyes have it. We are now up for bills

for first reading. Um we've got three bills. I think we need to take them separately. Um the first one's a pretty straightforward. Um and so can I get entertain a motion for the item uh N1? Motion made properly seconded. All those in favor signify by saying I. I

opposed eyes have it. Um, so item two is an uh amendment to the city and uh city's women and minority owned business ordinance as well as the HARKC amendment as well as uh general amendments and an ordinance to comply with u current federal law and what will soon be state law. And so we've been working on HARK modifications for its reauthorization um over the past several months. We've gone through multiple different iterations. Um there's still some questions over uh the language on that, but I think we are getting close. Um, and so what but but what I want to press to everybody that um really candidly kind of snuck up on us is that uh if we do not address this um these two uh um u enterprises or efforts, the minority and womenowned business and park as well as some other language that is throughout our code um that does not comply with current federal requirements for grant applications by the end of the year we stand to lose out on significant amount of federal funding through grants. So the major impetus for the timing on this uh is because of that we have an extension on that through the end of the year but not anytime further past that. And this is, I believe, approximately $26 million. Is that an accurate roughly round number on grant funding? Yeah. Okay. It's over hundred million that we

have in grants. So, um this is a significant amount of money. Um and we want to make sure that we are obeying federal law but not uh uh blowing up things that have been ongoing and productive for many many many years. So what has been um in the interest of time what I would like to recommend because there has been some questions from the public understandably and from council members. Uh what I'd like to do and I've talked with Chairman Mitchell about this. I'd like to uh for you all to consider approving a first reading of this with the understanding that we're going to have a special community development meeting next week on Thursday afternoon uh to flush out the language and a few uh reservations and concern to make sure we can hear from the public too and go through our normal committee process before second reading which would be the council meeting after u so two weeks from So again, that would allow us time to get this in place as amended likely uh before the end of the year and make sure we're in compliance with these federal grant applications. So happy to entertain um any discussion on that or I'd like to I' I'll make the motion that we approve with the contingent that we Mr.

May the presiding officer, it' be better for us to make the motion. So I'll make the motion. Okay. Thank you. Okay. What is the motion? To give it first reading and to go to community development for proper bid. Yep. Okay. So, we have a motion made, probably second of discussion. Council McGregor. Turn it off.

Can we separate the two actions? The um uh first reading, right? Um and to uh recommend that it's deferred to community development. Um, and why I'm saying that is that I I I definitely want to support the a deferral. Uh, but I cannot support first reading of what I've seen. Okay. I have a question, Mr. Mayor, uh, to my colleague. If we don't give first reading, how do we get three readings prior to 1231? I I think with or without my vote, it will probably still get first reading.

Okay. The point I'm making is that I cannot support just put on the record. I understand. So just a point of order, if you just make a motion to defer, that would take uh precedence,

defer and to send it to um uh community development. So for clarity, if we defer this, we will not be able to do it in time, but I think I'm certainly willing to entertain the motion. Do I have a second on that motion to defer? We have a motion made to defer. Properly seconded. All those in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. Nays have it. Uh now can I entertain a motion? Well, there's a motion on the floor.

Oh, it's already motioned on the floor. Okay. Learning my parliamentary rules here. Um so we have a motion made by uh Councilman Wearing. Do we have a second on that? Bon seconded that. So motion made, properly seconded. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Eyes have it. Okay. There's one nay for the record. Council member Gregory. Okay. Perfect. All right. So, thank you all for that and look forward we'll get a we'll make sure we get a notice out on the time of that meeting on Thursday afternoon um for anybody that would care to attend community development. Yeah. Yes. Councilman uh

Mr. Before we move on from it, I think we need some clarity in terms of exactly what we just did. Uh because part of the reason why I'm hesitant is because I'm I understand that there may be deadlines. Okay. Uh but I'm still not sure what the certification process is. What are we certifying to? I know we generally when it comes to federal grants we will certify that it is compliant it it is in compliance with appropriate law. Okay. But we have an addition to this which now also includes um something that is not a law uh but an executive order um which is a which is a concern of mine as you and I have discussed. So, I really want to know what parts of the grants that we're getting ready to move forward with $100 million. What are we certifying to when we say including the executive orders? What does the executive order say?

So, we can certainly remove the executive order language from the ordinance. That that's absolutely an option. I think what you under what you need to hear is in our grant applications both in the application itself and when we agree to accept it, there are provisions in it that read specifically um the person accepting or applying for this grant is certifying that we will not operate any little P programs that advance or promote DEI or DEIA. There's no definition for programs. Um it's not capitalized. Um, we've asked FEMA to provide some explanation as to what that actually means and they provided no guidance. So, at this point, we're just trying to cover all our bases so that if in fact we apply for these grants and accept these grants, we will not be subject to a false claims act uh where anyone can file it against the city claiming that we have misrepresented to the federal government that we do not have any DEI programs in place. And if we are found to have a DEI program and have been found to misrepresent to the federal government, um the person bringing that claim is entitled to treble damages of the amount of the grants that we are receiving. And the government has also said in these applications, if that is deemed true that we have misrepresented, they will treat the grant as a debt and will come after us for the money as a debt.

What is the DEI program? Oh, I'm sorry. And I mean, these are the I mean, we're flying blind, right? This is this is the challenge.

Yes, it it's quite a challenge for me. Um, and probably most of us around this table because we're getting ready we we're we're getting ready to vote on something and we have no idea what we're voting on. And I think that we have a responsibility to the residents of the city of Charleston that when we vote, we know what we're voting for. going on. I have no idea, not a clue what it a DEI program is. And how did we conclude then that minority women business as well as HARK are DEI program? What makes them DEI programs? because we mention women, because we mention minorities, because we mention race, is that what anytime we mention any of those provisions, it's automatically a DEI program. And if we if we really take this thing where it needs to go, okay, there are very few very few programs, okay, that does not have inclusion diversity, equity, even some of the federal laws that we certify to that we will certify to those laws, okay, have some of that language. So for me, just so that everybody know what my position is, okay? I don't vote on anything that I don't clearly understand and I think I think the federal government or the state at a minimum owes us that explanation because even if we do what we are doing now, we still can have programs that they may be able to find and say this is a DEI program. you're not in compliance, city of Charleston, and as a result, we're going to hold up all your

money and you're going to owe us. So, I understand caution. Okay. I I don't know what we're doing. Just for the record. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, I think it is a confusing time. Um, Councilman Wearing, when I spoke, uh, Councilman B had his hand up, so I'll defer. Yes.

Oh, sorry. I just in in response to that, I just wanted to quickly explain my vote. Um, it's not that I I love the language that's been proposed. Um, but I do uh just really want to thank uh Julia and staff for for working through this on a tight deadline. Um, you know, this is this is the really fun part of being a lawyer where there aren't any answers to anything and you're just making it up. Um, and so I think I think everybody's done a great job uh trying to comply with a novel interpretation of anti-discrimination law um in in good faith. Um I I you know I don't know how we could be expected to read the minds of the federal and state governments. Um I think the federal government or the state government will solve that for us soon I expect. But um you know in in in the interim um you know nobody nobody wanted to come here tonight and radically change uh you know a business incubator program for people who have historically not had a leg up. Um but it's uh there you federal supremacy clause. There's a state uh clause there's a clause in our state constitution and we don't really have a choice. Um you know when they when they pass laws we've got to comply with them. Um, and we are going to do our best to um, keep up with the mission of serving every one of our citizens um, addressing real problems in our community uh, while adhering to what we're being asked to adhere to. Um, and

required to adhere to required to adhere to [laughter] it might be asking now, but there will be a stick coming later if we don't. Uh, but I just want to say kudos to to you all for dealing with a really difficult situation. Council wearing.

Yeah. Thank I would just like Miss um Copelan to push out some of the information that's concerning publicly to us so we can take a look at Thank you for the role that you playing as the uh great interpreter I should say ambassador uh on this issue. But I think it would be great if some of the information that you're actually reading from was pushed out and actually made available to the public. So when we do meet uh at community development uh there'll be more accuracies that would uh the conversation could include as opposed to just seeing it at the first time at the meeting. But

sure again um all right Councilman Gregory

I mean and and as a followup um if we're going to do this it needs to be all inclusive. Okay. I mean, what I'm reading into what you're saying, okay, the women's commission, we have a women's commission. That's not included here in what we're attempting to say is a DEI program. We have disability rights programs. That's not included here as a DEI program. In other words, I just don't want us to play games with ourselves because the ramifications of what we're getting ready to do can be pretty farreaching. And we need to be very clear to me on what we're doing here because some of this general language could really really change things of which I think is a part of the plan. But I just want everybody to know we're not going back. We're not going back. We're not sitting on the back of the bus anymore. And that's where this is headed. And I just think as a city we need to be very very careful of how we frame the language in this ordinance because we have a mayor here that we know where he's coming from. But tomorrow we may have another mayor that may interpret this language very differently. And everything that we do in civil rights, in non-discrimination

can be changed. Just for the record, folks. My vote still stands the way it is. Thanks for listening. Okay. Thank you for that. Um, thank you, Miss Copelan. Uh, so we've taken the vote on that, right? Wouldn't we? Okay. Um, okay. Now we are on to item number three. This is the annexation of Zero Folly Road. Um happy to entertain any discussion on this or if I could entertain a motion to get discussion going. Move for approval.

We move we have a motion made for approval. We have a second. Okay. We have a motion made properly seconded. Um discussion on this item. Um, Councilwoman Parker, do you have anything? I mean, I'm happy to jump in here kind of what my two cents is. This has been something that then I'll hand it over to anyone else. Um, this has been, uh, on our agenda a few different times. This is, if you heard earlier tonight, um, part of a years'slong saga here. Um, and one of the major issues that I think there's been some misunderstanding on is currently one of these properties is in the county and the belief is that if we annex it um or if we don't annex it, then it cannot be developed. And so we did get confirmation from the county that no, it can be developed and will be developed. Um, and in fact, it could actually have a few additional units on it than if it was annexed into the city. Also, if it is uh not annexed in the city, not only can it be developed, but it doesn't have to adhere to as strict of storm water guidelines and regulations because we have an absolute requirement that they not only have to address the storm water that they provide, they have to improve the storm water uh uh in the surrounding area. So, in terms of what our options are, the way I like to think of it is it's the better option of two not great options. Uh, so I think it makes sense to annex it um not to support the development or uh uh a lot of the concerns that have been addressed here, but because it gives the city more control over it and it would have to adhere to much stricter guidelines. And um again this is u not a a question of

whether or not if it can be developed without our vote but um when it would be developed or how it would be developed. Yes, Councilman Se.

So just really quickly I mean from my perspective this vote is simply a jurisdictional question. I mean you want two governments looking at it or one government looking at it. You get one government with a little tighter guidelines on the zoning, much more complete guidelines on the storm water, and you end a piece of litigation that is tying up the people who own that property. Um, and you free them up from that. I mean, I we there's still lots to come on this development, what it ultimately will look like when it comes out in three dimensions. But in terms of jurisdiction, I mean, do you want a split government view on it? Litigation ongoing and you know, it just makes no sense in that configuration. Let's put in the right jurisdictional configuration and figure it out from there. I mean, that's how that's how I'm going to vote and let's get that litigation out of the way.

Fair enough. All right. So, we've had a motion made properly second. If there's any further discussion on this, um, if not, all those in favor signify by saying I. I. I. opposed. Nay. One. There's one nay for the record. Council member Parker and and I can put on the record that I'm recused from this vote. And council member Tigler is okay. [laughter] All right. So, we have one a council member Parker, one abstension, council member Mitchell, and council member Tinkler is abstaining from the vote.

Okay. Um well that all the other items on uh first reading have been deferred. So our next meeting will be in two weeks, December 16th. If there's no further action of this council,