City Council - Special Meeting

Thank you. We want to welcome everybody to this special city council meeting being held here on August 25th, 2026, 6 p.m. at Centerville City Hall. This is why this is a special meeting is It's what we call a truth in taxation meeting, and law requires that all that we can discuss in this meeting is just the truth in taxation issue. We don't discuss anything else, and it has to be on a separate night from our regular council meetings. Our regular council meetings are held the first and third Tuesdays, so this has to be separate from that meeting. So we welcome those, the public that are here in person Online, we welcome staff that's here and thank that council that's here. Let's do a roll call of council to make sure that we can take any action tonight, starting here on my far left.

Mecham, present.

Bangor, present.

Hurst, present.

Plummer, present.

Kamen, present.

Thank you. We have four in person, one online, so we have all five councilmen present. So we can proceed with our business. Like I said, this is a public hearing matter, so that means that we have an opportunity to hear from the public as well, too, on this. This is a Truth in Taxation interview. regards to a potential property tax increase and finalizing the 2027 final budget now our budgets in the city were on a fiscal year that means we run from July 1st to June 30th on our budget so this will be setting the budget for actually the budget period that started just under two months ago But state law allows us to do that. And with this truth in taxation, we obviously can't finalize the budget until we do the truth in taxation. So many of you that are here probably have some handouts. We're going to call our finance director up. I think he has a presentation that he wants to present. While he's coming up, he'll be discussing to you Why this truth in taxation? The amount that we're looking to potentially collect if the property taxes change, the fiscal year 2027 budget, certified tax rates and all of that fun stuff, just the kind of stuff that you like to dream about when you go to bed at night. So, Nate, if you would give us a little overview, and I'm sure that the council members will have things to add as well, too, before we go to the public hearing part. So thank you. Thank you, Mayor.

Good evening. As you mentioned, tonight we have before you two resolutions, one to set the final tax rate, for the city and one to adopt our fiscal year 27 budget. State code requires that both of these be set prior to September 1st. Okay, so back in June, we received the certified tax rate from the county auditor, along with that the certified property tax revenue. So the certified rate for 2026 was .001137. And that would give us about $2.3 million in revenue. And then we're proposing to increase that by about 15%. So the new rate would be .001314 and would provide about $2.7 million worth of property tax revenue, an additional increase of the $369,103. And we will get into the reasons why. But first, I wanted to start with the property tax impact statement. Um, this was adopted by, uh, council back in, I believe May. And then we revised one either later in May or started June. I can't remember which. Um, so the, the most recently adopted, uh, property tax impact statement is available online as well as a printed copy on this table by the door, uh, for anybody that would like one. Uh, and on that, uh, table is also the County combined ad and the city ad, uh, for our, for our hearing tonight. So again, these are the items that make up the reasoning for the tax increase. If you remember our original discussions, we thought we would do a tax increase for the new officer, the fire assessment increase. And then we talked about doing a general 3% inflationary increase since the public is in prior hearings asked us to increase incrementally and set off for years and doing a big increase. And then the state law changed this year that we need to specify specific reasons. And so this is the reason that was voted on by council. So this is what is on the property tax impact schedule. And we'll get into this a little bit more, but first I want to talk about how property taxes work in Utah. So the first thing this pie chart represents your total property tax bill so all the different Pieces are the different taxing entities that make up your property tax bill It's important to note that when we talk about the increase of the 15% tonight We are only talking about the Centerville City portion. So we're not talking about your entire say $3,000 bill. We're talking about the $350 portion of that that is Centerville's tax rate. All right, so in Utah, property taxes are revenue-based. This means that they're based on the actual amount of dollars that we collected the prior year. So state law says that the city can only receive the same dollar amount in property taxes as it received the prior year, unless one of two things happen. The first is that we get new growth, new development within the city. And the second way to get more property tax revenue is to go through the truth and taxation process and increase the rate, and that's what we're doing tonight. For 2026, we got our new growth figures from the county, and that was that $37,000. And the reason we can get new growth without going through the hearing is because when you think about it, as the city develops, that means that our service needs have increased. We have more roads to maintain, more roads to plow, more police services necessary, etc., So that's why we get that new growth figure. So to calculate your property tax bill, you simply take the taxable value of your property and multiply it by the tax rate. And this will give you the amount of property taxes that you owe. The tax rate is the same for all properties throughout the city, but the taxable value can fluctuate. And that depends on whether you're a residential property or a commercial property. Okay, so each year the county performs an assessment and assigns a value to your property. This is called the market value. So in Centerville, the average home's market value is $610,000 this year. The taxable value is the value at which your property is taxed. As I just mentioned, primary residents are given a 45% discounts. Other properties, their taxable value and their market value are the same. Then we have the certified tax rate. So this is the rate at which your property is taxed as calculated by the county. And I like this image of the seesaw and the teeter-totter because as the city's property tax values increase, your tax rate will decrease, but the amount of property tax revenue that the city gets remains the same. And the opposite would be true. If property values decrease, then our tax rate would naturally increase. the city would receive the same amount with the exception of new growth or if we go through this process of truth and taxation so that's an important part to remember as we look at this so this is this chart shows the history of centerville's tax rate and you can see that that in most cases well in all cases as property values have increased the tax rate decreased with the exceptions of when we went through truth and taxation and those are those years that are called out there so you can see at the end where our tax rate would be without this tax increase and then that red line on the right hand side shows what it would look like if adopted tonight here's a comparison of other property tax rates again these are the certified tax rates any of the cities that have the star next to them those are cities that are going through the Truth in Taxation process. I have not kept up with them, so I don't know how they ended up, how they voted. But this gives you a comparison. I always give the caveat when we look at this that every city's financial needs are different. and every city's revenue base is different than ours. Um, some cities like fruit heights have almost no sales tax generators. Um, other cities have a power, uh, a power fund that can help us subsidize the general fund or other sources of revenue. So each city is comprised differently. Um, but I do think this gives us a, you know, a general idea of how we fall in line with other cities in the, in the county. Okay. So now I want to get into some commonly asked questions about property tax. So the first one are property taxes affected by inflation or more specifically, is your property tax bill affected by inflation? And the answer is no. Again, to adjust the property taxes, we have to go through this truth and taxation. And this is, Part of the struggle of this when you're trying to fund the city is that while we don't get more property tax revenue as inflation occurs and costs rise, we still have our costs to provide the service still continues to rise. So again, just like everybody else, we get a need of increased costs to us to provide the same level of service, but we don't automatically get extra revenue based on inflation. Okay. Um, so frequently we get the question of, um, if the city hasn't raised property taxes in the last couple of years, how come my property tax bill has gone up? Uh, and there can be two possible reasons for this. Uh, the first is that another entity that we saw in that pie chart has increased taxes. Um, and if they've gone through the truth and taxation process and raise their rate, then your overall bill will increase. And then the other possible scenario is that your property has increased in value at a quicker rate than other properties in the city. So remember, as the property values as a whole for the city increase, the tax rate decreases for the city. However, as your property may appreciate or depreciate differently than your neighbors, that could cause you and your neighbors tax bill to adjust slightly. And I know that can be really confusing. Um, so we've tried to illustrate it here. Uh, so in this example, you'll see, um, a city with a total taxable value of 1.2 million. Uh, and so we get that by adding up all of the values of each of the houses. And that's what you can see underneath each of the houses. That's their individual value. Uh, so the city in this scenario collects $1,500 in taxes. And so to get the tax rate, you just take the $1,500 that the city receives, divide it by the total taxable value, the 1.2 million, and then that gives you your tax rate with a .00125. And then there in blue is the amount of property taxes that each of these homes would pay. So that's year one. Then we go to year two, and the county performs another assessment and assigns the new value to your home. So we have the Same city, but you'll notice that the total taxable value went from the 1.2 million up to the 1.65 million, but the city still continues to collect that same $1,500, which means our tax rate decreases to the 0.00091. So you can see in the blue, the new property tax bill of each home. And then in red, we'll show the difference from year one to year two. So you'll see that first house, even though the city didn't increase taxes because their home appreciated a different rate than the city. There's actually went up $40 on their individual bill, but house number three and four had a decrease of $28 and the 2250. Uh, so I know that can be really confusing. If you have questions, I'm happy to break it down further. Um, but those are just some reasons why your tax bill may fluctuate year to year, even when the city doesn't go through the truth and taxation process. Okay, so now looking at our situation tonight, how will it affect the average resident? So the average resident has a market value of their home of $610,000. Again, remember, a residential property gets a 45% discount, so their taxable value is at $335,500. So using the certified tax rate that the county gave us, The average residential home would pay $381 in Centerville City property taxes. As we've talked about tonight, we have a proposed increase of the 15.61%, which would mean if adopted, the average home would pay $440.85, which is an increase of about $59 a year or less than $5 a month. For businesses, they pay for non-primary residential properties. They do not get the discount. The county has told us that the average commercial value in Centerville is the $1,775,000. So without this tax, or using the certified tax rate, they would pay $2,018. And then with the proposed increase, they would then pay $2,332, which is an increase of about $314 a year, or about $26 a month for the average commercial property. OK, so looking at our current financial situation, looking at our governmental funds, we are heavily using our fund balance, which you will frequently hear referred to as our rainy day fund. So as we compiled the budget, again, we've been working on this since January internally as staff. And then we first presented it in our budget workshop to the city council at the end of March in our budget retreat. And we've been refining it ever since then. So this is a big project. But at the end of the day, we still had a budget shortfall of about $1.5 million. And so in our capital projects fund, you'll see that we're using about $1.1 million to complete our projects and to balance this budget. Now while every year we do use some fund balance from our capital projects fund, that's to be expected almost every year. But using it to this degree is certainly not sustainable long term. So that's the concern that we have. Now we talk about service levels a lot. So as I was preparing this and thinking how do we you know, explain service levels. I typed it into Google and the Google AI spit out this definition that I liked. So it says, service levels in local government define the quality, scope, and performance of public infrastructure and programs delivered to communities. They balance community expectations with available budgets, staff capacity, and technical standards. So this balancing part is the challenging part. That's why we're here tonight. That's why we've been working on this since January. is trying to balance what is the quality of life that our residents expect and how do we provide that standard of living with our current resources. And that's not an easy answer because everybody has a different opinion of how to get there. And that's why we as staff and council spend so much time working on this budget to try to find that appropriate balance. So as I was thinking about the average residential household will pay, if adopted, $440 this year in Centerville City property taxes. So I thought about what benefits do our residents get for paying that $440. Again, this is some of my opinion here, but for that $440, you get public safety responding to your call in a matter of minutes. And actually, if this tax increase is adopted, we'll be able to hire an additional officer. So it actually increases that level of service. You get roads that are well maintained and very drivable in any type of vehicle. You get very well maintained sidewalks. No matter where you live in the city, you can get a park within walking distance of your home. Or if you want to go to a different park, you can, again, drive there on those well-maintained roads within a 10-minute drive. You get use of amenities like pickleball courts, tennis courts, basketball courts, playground equipments, walking and biking paths, and even restrooms at most of those facilities. You get events like we just had at the Fourth of July. You get movies in the park, the Christmas light ceremony. the fall festival, the other events that the Whitaker Museum puts on. And with recreating, you get the hiking and biking and off-road trails, and the list goes on. And you get all of this for $440 in property tax. Now, looking at this again, some of these, I would argue, are essential services, like public safety and roads. Some of these certainly aren't essential. like our events or even parks are certainly not essential to government. However, I believe they do provide a significant benefit to the community. Um, I know I went to the 4th of July celebration and enjoyed the fireworks and I went to the parade and saw the, you know, 10, 20,000 people enjoying that. Uh, now is that an essential cost of 70,000 is a essential? No, absolutely not. But do I think it provided an excellent community benefit? Absolutely. So as we look at this budget, again, going back to this service level, this is what we're trying to balance is the quality of life that our residents want. So as we think about trying to balance this budget, what are you, ask me rhetorically, what are you willing to give up? We're trying to do everything we can with the resources that we have. And I think we have a really good team here at Centerville between staff and elected officials that were able to come to this balance. So anyway, there's my, there's my soapbox for the night. But I do think we get a pretty good value for the amount of taxes that we pay. Okay. So looking at this additional property tax revenue, again, it's about 369,000. How will this be used? These are the items that we listed in our property tax impact statement. So the first is medical insurance increases for our employees. This continues to rise every year. So this was about $83,401 worth was part of our reason for increasing this for this property tax increase. The second item is the new police officer position. And this $250,000 for that would include the wages for a new officer and all the benefits, plus the patrol vehicle and all the associated costs like equipment and fuel and maintenance training, all of that. And this would help increase that service level for the police department and their overall response capacity. And then the final part, is the assessment that we get from South Davis Fire. We pay a total of, what was it, 1.2 million-ish to the fire district. They have increased our rate that we have to pay to them by that $35,702 this year. So that is the last part that makes up our reason for the increase. Okay, and then again, this public hearing tonight And the resolution before you is also for the final budget. Back in June, we had to adopt the interim budget, which is part of the new state laws this year. So again, we've talked about our budget in length at various meetings. So I won't go into all the details of the budget here, but just kind of hit the highlights that we've projected our sales tax revenue to increase by about 2%, going from $5.5 million to $5.6 million. Again, this budget does include the property tax increase of 15.61%. In our sanitation fund, we have the fee increase, $1 per garbage can. It was adopted back in June. And then this also includes using fund balance in our capital projects fund, our transportation fund, sanitation fund, and drainage fund to complete some of those capital projects. And then finally, we have the inter-fund loan from our capital projects fund to our water fund in the amount of up to 2.4 million. Since the interim budget was adopted back in June, we haven't really had any changes. The only changes that you'll see on the final budget are related to the property tax. So when the interim budget was adopted, we hadn't received the certified tax rate from the county. So now that we have the certified tax rate, We've updated that line to include our new growth. And then the other thing that changed with property tax is that for the interim budget, the new state code required that we put the additional tax revenue in a restricted account. For the final budget, since we'll have an adopted tax rate, I've combined that into just a single property tax revenue line. So you won't see that additional restricted account anymore. And then because of that new growth, the amount that we transfer to our capital projects fund has increased by that same $37,000 equal to our new growth. Okay, so again, our staff's recommendation is to adopt the resolution setting the real personal property tax rate at .001314 for the general fund and adopt the other resolution adopting the final budget And just a quick note to remind you about our public hearing. We've had a couple of changes in state legislature this year that says we must allow everybody that wants to comment a reasonable time for comment. So I think our, our typical three minutes satisfies that. And then we must allow virtual comments. So I know Jennifer's watching the zoom. So if anybody wants to comment online, they're able to, I think we're just going to ask them to use the raise your hand function. so we're not interrupting each other. And then we also had to allow written comments to be submitted up until the end of the hearing, and that's all been posted on our website with instructions on how to do that. So anyway, that's all I have prepared for you tonight, Mayor. Are there any questions I can answer?

So I want to point out a couple things. First off, about your third or fourth chart, the certified tax rate, There it is, right there. That, for the most part, just for the people that are here, is for their knowledge to make it clear. that you see those years that it's declining, that's because probably property values have gone up, right? Correct. Because in Utah, and there's a few other states like this, I don't know how many, your property taxes will stay the same other than what Nate showed, those rare situations. even if your property goes up or your property goes down, that rate will adjust. So the only way that your taxes can be changed by us or any of that pie chart that he showed the county that school district, the sewer, whatever, is through a truth in taxation like this where you increase the rate. So as your property goes up, that rate's going down, so your taxes are staying the same unless you have a certified tax rate increase. The other thing I wanted to point out, and Nate didn't cover this because it's not really part of the, it is part of the meeting, but not part of his presentation. I just want to point out, for those of you that haven't looked at the budget, our budget for our city is not completely funded by property taxes. We have just under a $14 million budget, and of that, 2.7 million is property taxes. Obviously, $5.6 billion is sales taxes. That's the biggest one. And you have building license fees. You have franchise tax fees, that sort of thing. And I also want to point out that a lot of what you see going on around the city right now, we do our best. to make sure we get grants wherever possible that the construction on main street the construction on 400 east we had pipes that were council approved early in the year to do those projects and a lot of quite a bit of that money comes from grants we apply to as well too so obviously some comes from this And also improvements you see like pickleball courts that went in, quite a bit of that was done through grants and then through the RAP tax, which the voters approved years ago and they approved again last year. So that stands for recreation and parks. So there's money that goes to that for that type of purpose. So I just wanted to bring that out to you. uh... one thing we didn't discuss is uh... well no we did discuss it but did you go over uh... of how much we're proposing uh... is proposed on the truth in taxation did you discuss The new property tax impact schedule that the legislature requires us to do. That's new for all of us. That was an exercise that we had to all go through new. Now there it is right there. So we had the legislature played around with all sorts of bills with property tax. One thing they settled on was in this truth in taxation that we had to do these property tax impact schedules. Even though there could be increases in other areas as well, too, we're required to pinpoint areas of why the proposed property tax increase and where that would go to. You could look at our budget. I'm not necessarily a big fan of this because of what legislature passed, but they were doing their best. You could put a number of items here that make up that $370,000. But our property tax impact schedule, that's what it shows that this increase would go to $250,000 for police and a new officer. That's just not the officer. That's a vehicle that goes along with it, equipment, all that sort of thing. $35,702 to the fire assessment increase. And then medical insurance coverage for all the employees that's gone up. And those total almost 370,000. So that's what we have pinpointed that the use is for. So of where these funds would go to. So other questions for Nate or clarification that council wants to make or staff wants to make? Nothing? OK. So I guess at this point in time, if there's no further questions. I guess we could go to the public hearing part and hear from the public. That's your opportunity to hear from you. And then we'll take notes and we'll try to respond to your comments as well as we can. And then we'll come back to have further discussion after that as well too. So like I said, this is a public hearing matter, truth in taxation, property tax increase, and fiscal year 2027 final budget. So that public hearing is now open. All we ask is that you state your name and where you're from for the record.

And also, Mayor, really quick, for those on Zoom, if you'd like to comment, use the raise your hand feature on Zoom, and then we'll call on you when we're ready.

So those that are on Zoom, I don't know if you heard our recorder, Jennifer, but use the Raise Your Hand feature on Zoom, and I will have her look at those to get you as well, too. But we're going to open it up first to those members of the public that are here. So that public hearing is now open.

Good evening. My name is Doug Hansi. My wife and Judy and I live at one residence of Centerville for the last 51 years. We live at 112 East Jennings Lane. I'm 75 years old. I still work full time. I own a technology business that works with very large corporations and medium sized businesses and I have customers in four major business segments and I work with people from the sea level down to line workers. My reason to being here is a massive frustration with property tax increases here and in the county. And it's as a way of using to resolve budget needs and manage increasing costs. My frustration should echo with each of you who purchased a home And as inflation drove up the value four to five times what you paid for that home, it becomes a little aggravating. California used Prop 13 to protect people from drastic value increases that froze property tax realistically to the purchase price. not the appraisal price. I'm not a fan of California government and consider one of the very few redeeming successes of that 66 state. Judy and I live in a home with a two-car garage we built in 1988, which today would be absolutely impossible for us to afford to purchase. Here is my harsh reality. I'm trying to retire. And your property tax increase added to the Davis County increase are more money, that is more money than I will make in retirement per month. Think about that for a moment. The property tax is now going to be higher than my income per month. Your truth in tax packet is very revealing. On page 94, Centerville has had four tax increases In the years 2017 through 2026, four tax increases for property tax. People at this rate, Center for Leadership is likely to continue increasing taxes every two and a half years. I said I work with major medium to large companies in Utah and surrounding states. For-profit businesses cannot spend money like a municipality does. They have to make a profit, which means working with equipment they have to produce to make their products. For example, I have three customers. One customer alone has 600, 600 barcode printers which they produce. It's in an automotive business. These printers are aged from 6 to 18 years, but yet they run those printers, continue to use those, even though they've been end of life and end of service life because they still process the product properly. They don't run out and replace it just because a new one is on the horizon. You can't make a profit when you do things like that. You're all aware of the Public Works garage door openers issue. I'm I had asked a councilman, and I pushed him into a corner and said, tell me about what's going on. I was dismayed when I understood that the Public Works garage door opener, that you had one that failed. And because of a supply chain problem, you couldn't get the door open. So all of a sudden we decide we have to replace 10 door openers. 10 door openers we have to replace. In business, we buy a spare unit, we put it on the shelf. When it breaks, we fix it, and then we order a spare replacement. That's how we make a profit in business. If we were to solve problems any other differently, we wouldn't make money. It's the mentality it takes to be profitable, not running to replace something just because it's aging. I drive a 2017 Toyota Camry with 262,000 miles on it. I run to Sacramento for business. I don't even think about road worthiness. I get in the car and I go. Why is it necessary in our community that we need to replace vehicles so frequently every three years or so? Consider the mileage. Consider the replacement cost. I'm talking about budget items, not just the property tax. People, with respect, I encourage you to think about running a municipality. It should be more like running a business. Employees should be paid a COLA increase like Social Security does. Even an increase near inflation is considered reasonable. But high-wage employees in the city should never, ever receive wage percentage increases higher than the lowest employee does. Finally, property tax is not a solution to your budget problems and why. Centerville hosts major big box stores which bring a lot of out of town. In fact, when I go into a big box here, I don't see anybody from our community and I get around a little bit. And I look at that source of revenue coming in here. People do not stop shopping because the sales tax goes up a little bit. I'd like you to go back and consider the budget. I'm not asking about that items that were shown up here for the property tax increase because I think that you need to go back and look at wants versus bare bone needs in your budget, your overall budget. Again, with the exception of the public safety need. Like in the business world, every employee of the city should consider how I improve my work ethic with tools that I have. Most companies that I work with, major companies, have incentives for their employees where if they come up with an increase in their performance, they get rewarded for it. That's how we succeed in business. Let's recognize the importance of this property tax thing. There are a lot of families in this community who bought a house in the 40s, the 50s, and the 60s, who paid for that house, who worked their heart out, and who never had a decent income their entire life. And now we are, ashamedly, in Davis County, the state of Utah, and in the city, charging them a property tax rate on something that is so outside of their income capability. to support the property taxes. Ladies and gentlemen, I respectfully ask you to do not approve this property tax increase. I think you need to go back to your budget and figure out how you find a way to cover those things that you want to do. Lastly, I encourage you that you listen to people in the town. Sincerely listen to the people in the town. and not just the well-to-do constituents or something that you think that you like or that you would like to. Listen to those people. If they have different points of view, you might learn something from them. Thank you for your consideration, and I respectfully sign off. Thank you.

Is there others that would like to comment?

My name is Craig Preston. I live in Centerville. I can't pass up the opportunity to come before you. Come around frequently. I just want to give you a perspective of where I'm coming from and my people of my similar situation. I've lived here in Centerville this time for the past five years. And I don't know what you call it, but my property taxes have gone up almost 33% in those five years. This happens in a couple of ways. One is, yeah, you talk about this, these things. You got the mosquito district this year going up 15%. You got South Davis sewer going up. You got the fire district going up 16%. Centerville City is asking for 15% more. But then you also have new entities that are now taxing entities. It's not the city, but it's the overall impact on me and the city. People in the people who own property that's what's make my property taxes. I'm sure go up I haven't gone back and looked at it, but it has gone up 33% of lived at the same house Yeah, the county raises the level and I have questions about that and we have little discussions every once in a while with them We need to understand that I'm on a fixed income with Social Security. I get probably an average of two to five percent a year and out of that I Medicare goes up about 3%, so the net impact on me is about a 2% increase on my income. So I don't understand this no inflation effect. Somewhere it's built in there. And you do have an opportunity, as was mentioned here, in looking at the city budget and what happens. Being involved in the general plans, I don't know how much that costs to provide produce, and I don't know how much it's going to cost to implement. But you as a city council have control over that expenditure. And all I can do is ask you to be very conscientious and not look at it as just 15%. I mean, 40 bucks a year, whatever it is it's supposed to be, but that's not, my portion on my house is going to be up on that, oh, $60, $61, but my portion is going to be bigger than that. It's not just a $61 a year here, but it's everybody's $61. And I'm sorry that I missed. I saw Robin after the South Davis Fire Assessment. I was going to show up at that and found out that I had the time wrong and nobody came. I don't know how much of an increase that is, but it bothers me significantly that South Davis Fire is asking over a 16% increase themselves and then coming to you, the cities, Asking for a significant increase that is outlandish and that's one of those things that I don't know I can't remember when it was but that's no one was separated out. We made a new taxing entity and whoa Here we go You know this this fire district thing that's not a big meeting and obviously when I found out that I was Nobody came and I was dressed right in the parking lot as everybody else was driving out. I was very disappointed that I'd missed it So I just want us to know that this is what it is. You do have an impact. And it's everybody's 15% impact that makes my taxes go up 33% in five years on the same house. Everybody adds up. You just put it all together. That's what it is. Please be conscientious. Be aware of what we're doing. Be reasonable in what you're doing when you implement this general plan and how you spend the money. It's your money, but it's out of my pocket. I would like to have some input on it, and thank you.

Thank you. Others that are in person?

Hi, I'm Diane Witten. I live on Center Street in Centerville. I just want to reiterate how important it is to stick with the budget, because my salary doesn't increase if I need something. All the prices have increased in everything. Groceries are outlandish. Gas is outlandish. I'm barely making it by. And I know I'm not the only one. And I can't go to my boss and say, hey, I need an increase in my raise. I don't get it. I've already plateaued in my work. I'm not going to get an increase at all. And so if there's an increase in my grocery budget, I have to cut down on something else. I can't just keep going how I am. And so I'm asking that you really seriously take a look at the budget and say, is this a necessary expenditure? Or is this a want? Because there is a huge difference in that. And I know there's some underlying padding going on. I took over doing my dad's bills and the Centerville City bill for his household of one person and my city household bill for three people with a son who uses the hot water heater for every shower were exactly the same to the penny every single month. So there is some padding going on underneath. And if you're going to do that, it tells me that there's a little bit of discrepancy in what can we get away with. I would like to see more honesty. I would like to see some serious budgeting, because that's what I have to do. That's literally what I have to do. I don't want to see any more increases. I'm saving every month trying to afford taxes. My house is paid for. I'm saving every month to pay for insurance on the house too. And then if I have a medical problem come up, that comes right out of my savings account for the taxes, and I'm scrambling to save enough for taxes again. It shouldn't have to be this hard to live in such a good community. It really shouldn't. We've got good people here, and I'd like to keep it that way. But it's outpricing. It's outpricing people. And instead of saying how much lower are we than other cities in taxes, I'd rather have us look at what can we do to be even lower and make it more affordable for our citizens to live here. I'm happy to do away with some amenities. I volunteer to pick up trash on trails. I've done that before. I'm happy if our community reaches out to, does a community clean up? Instead of asking for the parks and other public servants to clean up, I think we can step up and volunteer. If that helps cut money in a place that can be cut, and then that money can be pushed over to where you really need it. Anything to save some money so we don't have to raise taxes would be really appreciated. Thank you.

Thanks, Diane. Anybody else that's present? Do we have any raised hands online?

No raised hands. We have two folks online, one online now. but haven't seen a raised hand.

So no comments from online? Okay, seeing nobody else from the audience or online that wants to comment, I will close the public hearing and let's see if we can't respond to some of your questions. First up first off I'm going to call Something that Diane said in regards to tax rates on water fees Can we help out there help her explain? Help her understand those how those water fees work This is a part of property tax by the way water fees are separate from property tax, but I It can give you a feel of how the water fees work.

Yeah, so for water, everybody's meter gets read once a month, and that determines how many thousands of gallons of water has gone through that meter. So every house will get, there's two parts to your water bill. There's a base rate, and that'll vary base. Well, so it's the same for every of the similar size of meter. So all three quarter inch meters will pay roughly $35 on a base fee. And then your usage is the second component. Um, so depending on how much you use, there's a multiplier. Uh, I think the first tier, so from zero to 5,000 gallons, I think it's somewhere around a dollar 60 per thousand gallons. Um, so if you feel like, uh, you mentioned your, uh, we have one situation where there's one person in the house versus multiple people in the homes. uh... one situation could be that you have a leak going on you'd be surprised at how much a dripping faucet or a running toilet can consume water uh... so if you have a concern about a leak please call us and we can our public works our water department can go out and help determine if you have a leak or not uh... so that's something that we can help you with or if you have other general questions about your bill uh... please call us we're happy to answer those questions

So that helps with water fees. It helps you understand there. Doug, I'm not a fan of how California runs their government either, but one thing that you mentioned, yes, they did freeze property taxes for existing homeowners, but anybody new that's buying a home makes up for that. That's correct.

If you buy the home, you pay the taxes.

You bought it. It's murder for the new people that are buying so you know there's So I'm not going to comment one way or the other, but I just want that to be known Council what other things that were brought up that?

We could touch on the prop 13 if that's a little bit more mayor I do have mother-in-law or my in-laws are in California and prop 13 the grass is not always greener as I analyzed their utility bill and for their property tax bill compared to their neighbors. They pay 100% of their property taxes. So when the gentleman next door moved in at $700,000, he pays $7,000 a month or a year for his property taxes while they continue to pay $1,800 a month. But they have so much debt because they have no money from the property taxes that their property taxes are quite a bit because of the bonds that they have to take out because they don't have any money. The biggest downfall of the Prop 13 is that when you leave the county, you then pay that new rate. So you pay that higher amount in the new county. But what's one thing that doesn't move counties? And that's commercial businesses. So Disneyland hasn't moved, so their property taxes have been frozen. So the residents are stuck filling in that gap of what commercial is left behind. So right now, there's a lot of legislation in California to undo the damage that Prop 13 has done. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Other things that were brought up, council, or staff that I might be missing to help answer their questions?

We had a question about the garage doors. Can you just clarify the amount of doors? It seems like we reduced it.

Yes, we did. We are not replacing all of them. I think we're only doing two, if I remember right.

Garage doors went from four to two, and one of the arguments that has been shared is that Leaving it on the shelf is definitely an opportunity, but you lose the warranty if it's sitting on the shelf. So buying it and installing it, you get the warranty, whether it's one year or a limited warranty. And so if you have it on the shelf, then you lose that warranty. I'm just making an argument of one of the reasons why it's important.

Sure. I understand. Businesses, large businesses, put them on the shelf, but the warranty expires.

Let us continue. We're not just debating back and forth. Let us answer the questions for now, Doug.

Another question was a discussion on replacing vehicles. Do you want to address that?

So one of the advantages of local government, we have access to state contract pricing. which is pricing that is better than what's available to the public. So there's a balance that you try to strike when purchasing a new vehicle and selling of that vehicle. The longer you hold on to it, the less value it has. So there's a balance that you try to retain as much value, and we analyze when's a good time to sell it to retain its value to recover as much as we can in its value to help purchase the new one because we have access to state contract pricing. So that's, I don't know, Nate, if you have anything else to add to that.

Yeah, no, I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but that model has served us well. We just sold a couple of vehicles in public works that were about four years old. And the difference between our purchase price and our sell price was only a couple thousand dollars. It's $500 a year, essentially, in the leasing of that vehicle. So when we can sell a vehicle at the right time where it's still somewhat new... you're able to get use out of it, but still recoup your original purchase cost almost. And I think our team's done a good job at trying to balance that. Now certainly there's vehicles that get a little more use, like our parks vehicles. Those certainly do not get replaced like our admin vehicles would.

And, of course, the value with that is less maintenance cost. So with a smaller fleet mechanics or contracting out for those services, we're not replacing tires, we're not replacing brakes, or anything like that. So in the long run, the cost of maintenance is less with that model.

And most major repairs are done under warranty?

I have just a couple of things I'd like to say. Number one, I started where you are. So when you talk, sometimes it's emotional for me because I was where you are. I've got you beat. I drive a 2005 car. So there's probably not many people that are tighter than I am. And if you don't believe me, I'll give you my kids' phone numbers because... Growing up, they were never allowed to drink a soda pop, and they never go to a restaurant now, but what they don't order is soda pop, because their mother never let them have a soda pop in a restaurant. So I'm pretty tight. I've been on the council for 10 years. I have voted against property tax increase, and I have voted for property tax increase. But I'm pretty fussy over what I'm going to vote for. So I look at it, and I think it's hard. Sometimes you see what the property tax person is, and this was where I was. And I'm like, come on, guys, find some things to cut back. What you don't realize is we have, just like they said, we went from four garage door openers to two garage door openers. Because we were kind of like you. We're like, we're a little iffy on that one. Well, we worked with our employees and we did. This is not everybody's wish list. We don't let everybody come in and say, what do you want this year? What do you need this year? And so what you're seeing is they have brought in their wish list and Brant cuts it way back and then we cut it back further so that, you know, it isn't, do I worry about people paying their property taxes? Very, very much so. I live in the older part of Centerville, so I live by some older people whose property taxes are going up and it's really hard for them to pay them. And I have my own feelings, but all I can control is the city. I'd really like to see something done for the older people who've paid taxes their whole life. But then again, it's like California. If we lower the older people's, the younger people's go up. Did I have more money? Then I'm on a very fixed income. Do I have money now? So that's another thing. I think we also need to remember When you're asking us to cut things back, I have people say to me, well, you put this in, you put the pickleball courts in. The people of Centerville voted for that. It's a wrap tax, which tells me they want the parks, they want the different amenities in their city. And so when they vote for that wrap tax, it does tell me that they do want that. When you talked about the vehicles, A while ago the sewer came out and they were driving, and I don't remember what they were called, but my husband came right home and wanted one, the fanciest pickup truck out there. I called the sewer department right up and I'm like, what are you thinking? Well, they informed me that the resale value of the really fancy trucks was a lot better than the other one. So did I agree with everything they were doing? No. But then the city brought us this. And after being on here for 10 years, I can tell you our maintenance costs are going down. I'm shocked when they come in on a state level. contract, we buy the vehicles at a really good price. But then we sell them to the average person. So we are only losing a couple thousand dollars on them, and we have no maintenance on them. I mean, we're not having to fix. They're still under warranty, so that helps. Trying to make sure I get everything. Just and this doesn't having to do with the tax increase, but on your water bill I know I was just helping a neighbor with theirs who's Unfortunately had a leak and they've paid $700 more in the last two years and didn't even know they had a leak So I've been trying to help with them, but I was interested to know that we're charged by by the thousand of gallons that we use and the first five thousand is a dollar 68 and per gallon. So if you're using thousand gallons. So if you're using 10,000 gallons more than you said a relative, it's only going to save you or cost you $1.68. But I want to keep that that way because I don't want to charge people. Now, if you've got a swimming pool and you can afford all of that, then I think we should charge this higher end. But then I come up with the concern about these poor people that didn't really understand the water bill. What would it have been if we'd have been charging them more? So I'm trying to figure out. how we can charge bigger water users, but make sure that it isn't the leaps of the people that we're charging. So I do want you to know that I care very much. I think it's very important that we have a police officer. I think I've gone out and talked to a lot of citizens. This is kind of a hard one to say, but as you can see, we don't have a lot of people here. So I think a lot of people feel like we're doing a pretty good job. It's frustrating to me that this room isn't full. I think if we've got a tax increase, we should be hearing from 500 of you instead of just a few. But my only other thing is, you have to know when I talk to my department heads, and I talk to Mike from Public Works, and he tells me that pipe is now, you know, 10 times more than it was 10 years ago. Well, I understand that because my food is, but somehow we have to still fix the water leaks. We have to have wages that compete with the employees. I mean, our employees' wages, I look at sometimes I'm thinking, wow, but on the other hand, I pay more for anybody that comes and does anything for me. I want to keep our good employees. We have excellent employees here. I don't think our health insurance is anything that's debatable. We don't have a choice on our fire department. And I am happy to pay an extra $5 a month if it's going to bring the police department to our homes faster. I've had my elderly mother living with me and I've called the police department and the fire department my fair share of times in the last seven years. So I don't want anybody to walk out of here and think I don't care. I have pushed back. I have asked them to cut back. We have told our police officers in 10 years they ask for a new police officer at the beginning of the budget season every year. And sometimes they wanted to, we've told them no, we've told them no, we've told them no, till we feel like it's now affecting our police officers because they're having to work more. So I'm finally giving into that police officer. In 10 years, I've approved one police officer. So this will be my second police officer I've approved. I'm not just giving out the farm. Like I said, you'll find out I'm tight with the city. Tighter than the employees would like me to be, and I'm tight at home. So, you know, I just want you to understand that this is a hard position, and I understand it more now because I was, for 20 years, I was out there sitting where you are. But I do fight really hard to keep your taxes down. That's why they're going up an average of $5 a month instead of more because if we were giving them what they wanted it would be a lot more. And it is concerning that we're having to take into our rainy day fund. And something I don't know if they want me to tell you or not, but a lot of that rainy day fund came from COVID money from the federal government. So it will run out. Hopefully we won't have another COVID. So that's where we were able to build up our funds.

Thanks, Councilman Maycomb. So I just, in purposes of full disclosure, maybe Council or Nate or Brant or Lisa or the Chief, one of you can help me. So we have this new property tax impact schedule. And we have in front of us just under $370,000. And we're saying that we're short $1.5 million We're going to take $1.2 million. I'm rounding here, $1.17 million from fund balance and $370,000 with the tax increase. We came up with some schedule beforehand that showed we could do $370,000 elsewhere. But this is what we submitted to the state. So my question is this, is obviously the medical increases are going to happen or have. The South Davis fire assessment increase is there. It's a reality. We're two months into our fiscal year, and my question is this. If we do not hire that police officer by the end of next June 30th, like I said, I just want full disclosure, is that something that... were penalized by the state for, you know, because we haven't followed our property tax impact schedule, or anybody know the situation there? Are we required to spend the money that we put on the property tax impact schedule within our next fiscal year? That's a good question one I haven't put a lot of thought into.

Mayor, I did make a couple of phone calls, and no. Again, kind of as we discussed earlier, no, there are no penalties for not implementing exactly what we have. As long as we're making a good faith effort to hire an officer, then we're okay. The challenge, of course, the drawback is if it's used as an anecdotal at the state legislature saying hey look we gave him this tool and and and Senator says they're gonna hire a police officer and they didn't so we need to get more strict or change the legislation to really Get into a little bit more that that's a possibility, but again highly unlikely I think the whole entire point of this was to be more transparent which this this property tax impact schedule It's frustrating in terms of that it's somewhat misleading to the residents in my mind of what we're increasing tax for because there's so many other reasons why we're increasing it. This only shows 369,000 when ultimately we experienced easily identifiable about $670,000 for the property tax increases we could have justified with this increase with all the inflation, right? So this is what we're submitting, but it doesn't necessarily capture the 1.5 million shortfall we're experiencing altogether and what we need to make up for that increase. So we're not going to be penalized this year. However, does it create the argument of the state legislature that they revise the rules and code to force us to take a different approach? That's a possibility, but I think it's justifiable for us. We made the attempt. If we didn't try to recruit an officer, then that definitely looked shady, right?

Right. And that's why I preface my question with we could have put a dozen different items here to make up the shortfall, you know, but this is what we chose for the property tax impact statement. First year for this, I'm repeating myself again, to the state, and I just, if you don't come through on what you're saying, that's what I wanted to question.

And what we picked, Mayor, I think is justifiable in terms of we're talking about a new position. And as we discussed earlier, there's a difference between a funded position and an unfunded position. This is going to be a funded position. Therefore, I believe it's fiscally responsible for us to fund the position. We have building custodians that are unfunded positions approved by council. but we're talking about a new ongoing expense that is going to carry forward and putting in here potentially a software program that we use one year and then taking and we don't continue forward. I think that's more misleading to the public. These are ongoing, justifiable, and as I've shared with council in the past, anytime we have a new expense, we need that new revenue to support that new expense, particularly a new police officer is the argument. South Davis fire assessments we've been seeing Well, every year since we joined with South Davis Fire, and before we've been able to absorb these increases with property or sales tax increases or other revenues, but sales tax is not increasing. Post-COVID, spending habits have changed substantially, and that has caused our sales tax to be somewhat stagnant with only an increase of 2% this year is what we're forecasting. So again, we're kind of in this new normal of figuring out what the spending habits will be and what our revenues will be, but our expenses keep skyrocketing with whether it's pipe or asphalt or equipment or whatever the case might be. So we've been able to do a good job of absorbing those increases it's now starting to come to a head. As I've jokingly said in the past, we found all the change in the couch cushions and found where we can make sure that we're a little bit more tight in some areas and reduce our expenses in others. Department heads, I really appreciate what they have done going through this exercise with me to make sure that we keep our increases as minimal as possible this year. But we have found all the change in our couch cushions and But a new police officer, that's a whole different ballgame. That has to have its own revenue source to be sustainable. Anyway, sorry. I could keep going, but I'll stop there.

Well, Mayor, may I make a couple of comments with respect to that? First of all, I applaud our state legislature for for trying to provide a revenue in the Truth in Taxation law where expenditures and designations for what that increase is being guided toward are to go for, so that our public knows. I do, and I understand the complicity of how many items are increasing in our city, and we're identifying three. Okay, I will say and I want to say this because we have a state representative here in our audience. I But I'm a little worried and frankly concerned that when we choose which ones we identify there, of course it's palatable to the public that medical insurance is increasing. We've got to raise taxes to cover it. Medical insurance has probably increased every year for the last 20. We've been able to absorb the increase in the insurance with our tax rates. Until now, it is increasing. We've got to cover that somehow. But why did we pick that one to put on the list? That worries me a little. That's a real palatable one. Of course, the South Davis fire assessment. The fire department has been necessitating and requested assessments to us for years. We've absorbed those assessments in other years. And so to include just those, I love that we're getting more transparent. I think we can get even better by doing things that enhance the transparency because there are some areas this council knows very well as we've been through budget debating that Councilman Bangerter is not going to be supporting this increase. And there are reasons that I believe we could tighten our belt in areas I've suggested 132,000 of them very little of that was was Acceptable to to the other members of the council which disappoints me But I appreciate like what Robbins just or a council member making me just pointed out there are some legitimate needs I would be supporting a tax increase for a police officer. I have vetted, I've looked into that thoroughly. I understand the number of reasons that Chief has pointed out and I give public safety a huge priority in governmental provision of services to a city or county or whatever. And the sentiment in our country of defund the police just aggravates most all of us with rational thinking. And so there is a sentiment that's turned to where maybe we need to support our first responders, especially our public safety and police officers. And given the situation Centerville's in with having to cover shifts that are uncovered, The increase in the need for public safety with our big box stores and more vandalism, what is it? It's not vandalism, it's theft, shoplifting, there's the word. And those things, I want our city safe and I want our officers safe and have enough. So I can see that. I would have supported... a smaller increase that would have included the ability for us to get a police officer. Some of those other areas, and by the way, Nate, you pointed out well, some of the services that are provided by our city, there are some that are decreasing. Cinderella City used to be able to provide a cemetery plot for residents who passed away. We can't provide that anymore. And we've had a citizen vote on that who supported a bond to even do it. And the challenge there, not been lack of desire. Property acquisition is a big deal. But that's an attribute or a service that our city doesn't provide anymore. There are other areas of our city where I think we could do some belt tightening. And we've done a little. I think we could do more. So I want to... public to understand I wish more people were here it would be so helpful to understand their perspective and for theirs to understand our difficulty in trying to meet these needs and our frustration when it is seemingly seen as once but sometimes appropriately identified as once rather than needs and I wish we could I wish it was an easy choice to make. It's never an easy choice to make. But for those reasons and then some of the things I do believe we need to do haven't been incorporated into our budget. I want to mention one other thing. I applaud staff for identifying, it hasn't been brought up once here tonight, about the impact of this increase on our business community. Staff went to some extra effort and Paul, or legislator Cutler, if you'd be aware, when the truth in taxation notice went out and it identified how much an average home in Centerville would increase, it used the same number for a business. It used the number of average home, $660,000 or something. Okay, a business at 660 would pay, it was about $100 more. Well, the fact of the matter is, thank you, staff, for identifying as my request that the average business in Centerville values property-wise, 1.7 million. So the impact on the average business in Centerville is $369. that's a big difference and to any businessman and then it's compounded that doesn't that's not an expense you pay this year and you're done with it as we raise taxes that's an expense they will pay from here going forward forever because taxes we know never go down and then it compounds as they're raised going forward so our but our businesses aren't here I get it you know they're Most of them were only thinking they're paying $100 more because the notification was a little bit misleading. But that's where we're at for that reason. And then our city, I also want to point out for those who are forthright and taking enough time to be here tonight, this isn't the only increase. Our water bill in this budget is going up 7%. And last year, storm drain fees went up 50%. And there are challenges, needs that need to be met. Sometimes we need to tighten our belt a little tighter. I know, I'm the old guy on the council. I'm conservative and I... I live with some thoughts from the past and I know expenses are greater in this day and age and I'm one who believes that incremental increases are more palatable and more appropriate than big large 15 point whatever percent is a large increase. COLA BEING AT 2.9, I THINK THERE'S JUSTIFICATION FOR SOME INCREMENTAL, MAYBE YEARLY, BUT I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING OUR PROPOSED BUDGET OR OUR...

THANKS, COUNCILMAN BANGER. FOR A POINT OF DISCUSSION, AND I DON'T WANT TO BE COMPETITIONAL, BUT I DO WANT TO ASK YOU ONE THING. YOU DID IDENTIFY $132,000 IN AREAS WHERE WE COULD CUT WITHIN OUR BUDGET. And some of that we did cut, but let's pretend that we didn't cut any of that, okay? Then 132,000 is about exactly what medical insurance increases and South Davis fire assessment increases are, just a little bit more. So you just stressed for us how important a police officer position is, you support it. So does that, based on that theory, would you support a 10% increase to cover the police salary?

Would that cover the police officer allocation, Brent? 10 to 12.

Yeah, about 10, roughly. Because let's say that you got all that $132,000. We did take some of it. But let's say you got all that and we've we've that would still leave the police that you on support So that leaves that like he says 10 to 12 percent that we still have to Do a tax increase for you to fully fund that with with this budget, right? With with an increase to fully find out with an increase because I just throw that out to you because that sure is an option out there and just if that's important to you, to state that, hey, I could support a police increase in the 10 to 12%, but not a 15%, you know, so.

With that, Mayor, I appreciate that, but also I'd need some direction from council where you're cutting that additional amount from in the budget today.

Right, yeah, right. I'm just stating that just in theory, if you did that, We didn't eliminate those $132,000. We eliminated some of it. I'd have to go back through the notes of that.

And to clarify that, part of that was the garage door openers that have come up tonight. When they were first presented, it was nine garage door openers for $20,000. Okay, now, we did come down, but you said 42. That's not quite accurate.

I do want to share, but you're talking about one-time expenses, right? So that's why we have fund 47s for those one-time expenses. So 20 grand is going to go away next year. So again, we're trying to focus on the items that are an ongoing expense that we see year over year, not one-time expenses. Buying a new vehicle is a one-time expense, right? So new police officer is a year-over-year commitment, and so focusing on the property tax should be focused on that year-over-year commitment. If this exercise has taught us anything, which actually Nate and I have talked about this, we actually appreciated this exercise of the property tax impact statement. Because it gave us an opportunity to really sit down and look at those increases, and then really sit down and say, can we do without? And the answer is, well, no, that's what we presented. We already have done without. We've already cut where we possibly can cut. But so when you're talking about reducing it, we have a $1.5 million shortfall, and it does include the Fund 47 one-time projects in that budget. The issue that we're faced with, Nate, you'll have to tell me what the number is, we need our general fund to help fund those one-time expenses year over year because we do buy two police vehicles a year. And so even though it's a one-time expense, it's kind of an ongoing expense. And so we need the general fund budget to cover those schedules, those rotations that we've built in to make sure we replace those vehicles so they don't get too worn out, things like that. Really, we're trying to do our best to take the general fund that we have left, that we transferred to Fund 47 for the capital projects, but that has, over time, dwindled. And now we have to use a lot more of the refund 47 to balance this budget, which is not sustainable. So again, when you're looking for things to cut, we're talking about ongoing less parks, maintenance, less road repair. We're talking about less public safety, which is a huge, I'm not trying to pick on you chief, but that's $5 million. That's that's half of our budget. And so labor is definitely the most expensive part of our budget. So when you're talking about trying to cut where we need to cut, that's what we're talking about. Not whether we buy a garage door opener or 10 or a hundred. It's about those ongoing expenses to run the city that we're required to do so others Opportunities for that which we never addressed are the possibility of a smaller increase for our employees and But we're doing a compensation study this year right to see where we are And I think it's really critical before we make any knee-jerk reactions we we do need to compare what other cities are doing because that's who are losing our employees to and And you have to be very careful because employees are our number one asset. You start losing employees, it becomes really difficult to maintain a culture. I don't want to throw a city under the bus, but there's a city in Weber County that experienced a pretty high tax rate that has had challenges with employee turnover. And once that starts turning, it's really difficult to overturn. We have a great community. We have great staff. And so it is critical that we protect our staff. We don't need to be the best paying in the state. but we also don't want to be the lowest paying that we're losing our employees to other communities. We want to be fair, fair enough that they stay here because we do have great employees, but that's what we're trying to protect here. We're not trying to be the highest paid. We're not competing against those cities. We just want to make sure we reward those that have devoted their time to Centerville. And Council, I apologize.

We have been through all these discussions previously through our budget hearing. My fellow council members know where I stand. We differ in opinion on some of these things. I think with the police officer, maybe we go with that. Okay, maybe we buy one, we use one of the older cars for the new police officer for this year, and then next year your budgets are in a different situation. I just, there are ways, I don't want to go down rabbit holes of every expenditure. We don't have time or the ability to do that tonight. But I, generally, that's where I'm at. I wanted to make that, identified.

We did do that over six sessions which were all open to the public as well too.

And I respect all of everything you said and if you've seen I'm more on the conservative side but I also have seen over ten years If we lose an employee, by the time we get them up and get them trained, we've lost more money. So I'd rather pay our employees a little bit more and keep them than being paid for what I feel like is nothing, because this employee is all trained, does a great job, and I've got to bring this one. Probably nine out of ten police officers we hire have absolutely no police experience at all, and we're paying to send them to the... And the thing about that is it used to be When my son first wanted to be a police officer, he was up between 150 people for every job. And so he didn't go there because, and now it's really hard to hire a police officer. And like I said, probably at least eight out of 10 of them don't even have any police experience. So am I gonna lose a eight year, a 10 year, a 15 year police officer over a percentage of increase compared to having to hire somebody, pay them their wages, send them to the academy. That kills me. I feel like I'm paying for nothing. So I'd rather pay for the good commodity I have than the unknown commodity that I might be getting. Because it costs me a lot to get them out there.

Frankly, I think because of the experience that we have with staff, we run a pretty lean staff and we're able to do that because we do have some significant experience that, I mean, some of those people are gonna start retiring and I'm worried for us, but you did mention the COLA increases that maybe it should have been less. I felt like, it's not that I didn't hear you or agree with you, I just happened to agree with the city manager that we wanna be very careful about that until we do that rate study because we will be in a situation that we cannot return from very easily. I also want to comment on, I do appreciate that when I challenged you to find where we would cut in the budget that you did find $132,000. I didn't totally agree with every item. You're right, we don't always agree. But that didn't accommodate for the $369,000, and it didn't accommodate for the total of the $700,000, which Brant is right. We had more than that. We just opted to use the rainy day fund. Also, I want to make one comment on the cemetery. Yes, the voters did vote for a cemetery. That bond would increase our property taxes. We are not paying for that right now. So that is, you know, That is a concern for me that we also watch that. People voted for it. We're looking for options, but we have to be very careful with that because that would be a significant add onto the property tax, potentially. I do want to mention, I'm a member of the rec district, the bond for that building did drop off this year. So not, I mean, we did have one thing go off of the property. property tax bill. When we talk about fees, I totally agree with you, Council Member Bangerter, that we should do those slowly, and smaller increases are easier to absorb. In the case of the storm drain fees, those went on for many, many years without an increase, and that's what happens when we don't get those increases. As far as water, because I worked for the State Division of Water Resources. I have watched very carefully what we're charging for our water fees. They have a formula that they use when they do loans for cities and they go into the affordability. And we are meeting and are under the affordability for residents in Centerville. Now that's a modified adjusted gross income. It's not going to be the lowest income in the city, but it is... that's probably the best that we can do. But at the end of the day, I can't apologize for making sure that we provide safe, reliable water. None of us are gonna survive for more than three days without it. So that is really something that we have to consider. I do want to also add that our staff, I was in a committee meeting a couple of weeks ago with one of our committees and Brandt is really good at cutting stuff out of the budget before we see it. Something that we thought was in the budget got cut this year or so.

Oh, sorry.

I do want to say that I do appreciate that it's not an overly inflated budget when it gets to us. And yes, we do cut into it. We have gone through and tried to cut what we can. So I just...

On average, it's about $1.2 million that Nate and I go through the budget and cut out. This year was actually pretty awesome. They did a good job submitting as tight of a budget as they possibly could, and so I appreciate that. And you're right about the cemetery. The cemetery, when the interest rates were good, was about $70 a year for that cemetery bond. Now, the it will be a revenue generator but you have to be very careful about the revenue generation being because you you'd have to figure out that policy about how much you charge for any uh... plots if you want to make it as accessible to the public as possible your rates have to be low but then you're not covering the costs but don't we have to guarantee it with the property tax the bond has to be on a property tax no it's a it's a general obligation bond but nonetheless it's just again something to be mindful of as i've discussed with you all is that everybody wants something and you have all these demands all over the place but nobody wants everything so you're trying to find the balance accommodating so many different interest in this community because you do have people who want more outdoor space but then you have people who says please we just got a quiet neighborhood we don't want to do anymore so you've got all these competing interests and the issue is there's only so much income out there with our residents and you've got to balance that so if we do a cemetery then that potentially cuts away from potentially more open spaces for our kids or a police officer or public safety because you can't do a $70 increase for cemetery and then on top of that have another property tax increase for roads and another property tax increase for parks and there's only so much money. So that's, as we go forward, that's what you're all trying to decide is how we prioritize all these different wants in our community And Centerville has done a really good job being as fiscally conservative as possible. I think we've done a really good job, and staff does a really good job being mindful of that fiscal conservativeness. We have an excellent staff who are always trying to find ways to get grants, mics, getting millions of dollars of grants on road projects, water projects, drainage projects, that our residents don't see that, and we don't have increases. We've been able to absorb these increases in the fire assessment and all these areas because Nate and I have gone through the budget and said, look, there's 20 grand. The padding that was, I wouldn't necessarily say there's a whole bunch of padding, but if there's any areas where we feel like historically that we are not spending that much, we'll take that 20 grand away or that $500 away. Nate loves it when I do that, when I find $100 being like, hey, we're cutting this 100 bucks. So that's what we have done in the seven years I've been here is finding those little pockets, but it doesn't change the fact that inflation has increased drastically, especially after COVID. And that's the crux where we're at right now is that we have failures. Our budget is so dang good and tight that we know where things are going. There's not a lot of padding, but that means we can't absorb these increases anymore. The increases have to be revenue. Revenue has to match the increases.

So, Council, I believe we've tried to answer the questions that were brought up in the public hearing. You've all had a chance to comment, other than Councilman Palmer, and I'll let you comment. But I'm trying to get us back to what we've got to get back to. We have two resolutions in front of us that we have to decide on tonight. At the start of this meeting, I said, We have, this is what we discussed in this meeting. We don't discuss, all this relates. I'm not saying we're not staying on topic, but let's get back to these two resolutions. Councilman Plummer, yes, we have not heard from you. Thank you, thank you. I don't have a lot. I want to give you your floor time.

I don't have a lot because really what's been said is how I feel. I would like to sustain what Councilman Member Mecham has said, what Council Member Bangerter has said. I agree with so much of what you say. I appreciate Council Member Hurst's questions and I would just like to say that I understand and I feel for our residents. I too feel that sometimes our taxes are feeling like they're, they're getting out of control as we start seeing 33% increases over five years. Sir, I absolutely feel that that is something that we need to take a look at and perhaps that's something that, you know, at the state level, you know, people reach a certain age or people's income such as Social Security that's taxed. Things of that nature can be looked at at the state level to alleviate some of those taxes at certain times in our lives. And so I think that from that perspective we can say that we can only hope for some uh... change at the state level but this point in time i would like to say that over the last few years and getting to know the people that work in the city they are very honest and they do due diligence to uh... make sure that we are not frivolously spending money uh... that we are doing the right thing with the taxpayers' money, focusing in on public safety and the roads and the infrastructure underneath the roads that is so important to our way of life and our our standard of living. And I believe that that is something that I feel we're all blessed with here in this city is something that many people from outside of Centerville look in and say, wow, that's such a great place to live. And I am truly grateful to the people that work here for doing those things that will make these this situation less difficult because yes I don't want to raise taxes and I believe that tightening our belt is actually something that I do in my home I will tighten my belt I think that at this point we could tighten our belt but what would that do next year in the year after Incremental increases for this I think are better than holding off and waiting for the 15% increase. So ultimately, were faced with the difficult decision to pass a steep tax increase. I, too, would be inclined to really just focus on the police officer and say, hey, let's slow down this a little bit. But as our city manager stated, that's only postponing what we are going to need to do which is find other sources of revenue or decrease or the expenses and we we tried that we we had six meetings on that and I feel that we did our due diligence in that regard so with that being said I I will support the tax increase for the police officer. I've been very, very upset and I've stated as such about the fire assessment and how it has gone up without much notice and that they also have the ability to raise our property taxes because they are that taxing entity. So for that, I'm... a little less supportive of that, but I do see that that is still needing to be funded. So where do we fund it from? We either need to raise the taxes here or somewhere else. So what I'm going to say is that in the medical insurance, that's just one of those line items that we can't change. guess what I would like to ask as we just get some clarification is if I could ask the chief are we feeling that because I actually want to just dovetail on to what the mayor had asked about with the if are we going to be able to get this position filled this year? And what's your confidence level in that? And are we fully staffed at this particular moment in time?

OK, so yeah, I think we'll get the position filled this year. The question is whether these positions are staffed by someone out covering a shift and being effective as a police officer. That's a whole different question, right? Because you lose an officer, then you go through the hiring process, you identify someone, you send them to the police academy, they get out of the police academy, then they go out on the road for three months where they're paired up with a training officer where they're not effective as an officer yet because they're together, there's two of them together, but they're filling just one position out on the road one car they're responding to all the calls themselves and so the i believe yes i believe we'll get the position filled but the question is whether they're going to be out on the road on their own effectively replacing that person you know replacing that position that's always been our heartache and you've talked about the struggles with finding certified officers When I went through the academy, I self-sponsored, and a lot of us paid our own way, took it as a college class, we came out. And that's just how it was before, and now you're very limited in who you can pick up that way, and most times you sponsor people through the academy. And so we lost an officer in June of 25. That officer's out on field training right now, and he's slated to get off end of October, beginning of November, on his own.

And that's what we did pay their salary while they were in the academy. Right. Right. Even though they're not in shift.

And I do want to clarify for the record that our recruitment that's ongoing right now for an officer is for the officer who resigned and not necessarily to fill this position. Just so you know, again, because we've instructed chief that he can't hire recruit for this position until tonight on whether or not you approve this position. So we're not forcing your hand. that we, hey, we're already in the process. The position he's recruiting for is a position, existing position that was unfilled at this point.

You did ask for fully staffed. Yes. We are not, right? We had an officer resign and go to another department this past week.

So we're looking at seeing at least, if this was to pass tonight, you will need to hire two police officers to be, what you would say, fully staffed. Correct. With that additional office.

Okay.

Just for everybody's information, while I've been on the council, there actually have been years that the medical insurance went up nothing or almost nothing. I was shocked that there have been years that the medical insurance did not raise very much. I wished I had the years and the amounts, but I don't.

It's a different time.

I'm saying that there have been years that we didn't have to absorb that because, you know, it was...

Thank you. All right.

Mr. Mayor, I'm sorry. Can I make one brief comment? I know I'm like a disembodied voice coming from apparently the ceiling. Yeah, there was just a reference made to the property tax increase for the mosquito abatement district and as a representative on that district, I just wanted to comment briefly. The property tax increase was 25%. And as you'll recall, When I brought this to the council, that sounds like a very significant number, but what that equals was 66 cents per month on a $600,000 home. And the reason that we pushed that through was because we desperately needed to construct a new pesticide storage facility. And my understanding is that the Mosquito Abatement District has only raised property taxes twice in the last two decades. So I just wanted to, as a representative on that board, just address that comment. And that's all I have. Thank you.

Thanks, Councilwoman Hammond. All right, everybody's had a chance to comment.

Can I just add one more thing? Just for the people in the room, I think it's really helpful to know that many of these boards, like the Mosquito Abatement District, the South Davis Sewer District, the Rec District, all of those have representatives from each city, which has been very helpful because we as a council often know what... the property tax increases are that are coming. And we do try so carefully to try and balance that. Like if we know something big is coming from one, we try to limit. At least I feel like that weighs in. It's been helpful to have that information from the various council members that serve. I don't know if that helps at all, but I think that has been a very helpful thing that we do have elected officials that are serving on those boards that kind of see all of the impacts to the property tax statement.

One other thing I will add is since I've been on the council, we have not had an increase in our compensation. I've absolutely not taken any more money than we were paid. I'm still compensated the same this year as I was 10 years ago.

But with the pie chart, following up with what Councilwoman Hayman said, your 60% that goes to the school district, we don't have any representation there. That's true. Okay? We do on mosquito abatement. We do on garbage. We do on sewer. But your biggest chunk of your pie, we do not have any representation or say there. All right. So with... trying to be fair giving everybody their time uh that so uh i'm looking for motions uh on resolution 2026-23 and 2026-24 i'll make a motion that we adopt resolution number 20

setting the real and personal property tax rate at 0.001314 for the general fund for Centerville City, Utah. Do we need to do two separate, or shall I include them both? I'm okay to do both? Okay, and that we adopt resolution number 2026-24, adopting the fiscal year 2027 final budget.

Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second to that motion?

I'll second that.

Do we have a second to that motion? Do we have a last minute for further discussion? Okay, if there's no further discussion, then I guess we'll vote on that motion. Let's start to my right, Councilwoman Hurst.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Councilwoman Hayes? Aye. So that motion passes four to one. All right. Seeing, well, yeah, because we're Truth in Taxation, we do have no other items on the agenda. So seeing that, I would look for a motion to adjourn. So moved. All right. We're adjourned. Thank you.