City Council - Regular Meeting

All right, it is 5.30. We'll call this meeting to order. Thank you, everybody, for being here. The first one, this is how unprepared I am, actually. I've been in meetings all day. Did Natasha give me a list of somebody that was supposed to pray? Oh, fantastic. Would you say who you are as you do this?

You bet.

Can you hear me? Yes.

My name is Jeff Disney. I'm an elder at Sunrise Church out on Iron Springs.

Jeff, thank you for being here. And I apologize that I didn't get my paper off my desk. I will never forget this.

You're going to get a black mark in heaven.

No, I got too many black marks. Thank God for grace, right? Let's bow our heads and pray. Lord God, King of the universe, thank you for humor, first of all. Thank you for your son, Jesus, who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him, all things were created. and all things will be judged. Lord, we pray that all the leaders inside these walls will be filled with the knowledge of your will in all spiritual wisdom. May all these leaders... make decisions for cedar city always having the best intentions for the people of cedar city lord move in their hearts and their minds to govern with integrity and not for dishonest gain but for the good of the welfare of the citizens of this great city lord help them to be articulate in their words and have good recall in the issues they have before them Lord, move in their hearts to be quick to listen and slow to speak. And Lord, that they might be willing to challenge their own bias for the thoughts of others, that the best ideas and opinions might come to the surface and be honorable in your sight, Lord, most of all. Finally, Lord, may we all, most of all, love you with all our hearts, souls, minds, and strength and love each other as ourselves this evening. It is in his precious name of our Lord Jesus Christ that we make these petitions. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Thank you.

Who is? Oh, Ken. Thank you, Ken.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, thank you. Now we can move on to the stuff that's on the paper I have in front of me.

Mayor, I would move that we approve this work meeting agenda for August the 5th. Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed?

Oh, one question. Oh, so yes, pause. Item number seven, I thought we were deleting that today.

He did ask to pull that off, right? Drake asked to pull that off.

Yeah, they did ask to pull that off. Oh.

That's correct. Okay, so I will amend the motion to approve the work meeting agenda excluding item number seven under staff. Second. I'll second.

All right, now all in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. Okay, staff comments first. Traffic signal projects update.

I'll go ahead and speak to that one, Mayor. As I think most of you are aware, if you've driven by either of our traffic signal construction sites at Kitty Hawk and Bulldog or the one at 600 South and 1100 West, The underground is in on both of those. The signal pole foundations are there waiting for poles to put on the foundations. And that's the case at both intersections. But the orders for the steel, for the poles and mast arms through UDOT is, anyway, I think the manufacturer's just having a hard time keeping up. And so with all the projects going on around the state, we're waiting our turn to get materials. So those will be completed as soon as we can get the materials to complete them, is basically the status of those.

And no realistic expectation of when that is?

The order was placed first for the Kitty Hawk and Bulldog intersection, since that one started well before. The latest we're hearing is hopefully in the next two weeks we'll have those poles. That order was placed a couple of months before the 600 South and 1100 West, so we really don't know what to expect on that one. So that intersection will continue to operate as a four-way stop until we get those materials and get them installed and tested and get that signal activated.

Okay. Mr. Fugle, I thought, correct me if I'm wrong, but when we discussed the 1100 West traffic signal, the urgency for that was to try and get it completed before school started. That's correct. Did we not anticipate this issue with the polls?

Well, it's... I mean, in the past, those materials, I mean, as we work through with UDOT and their stockyard, with those, their stockpiles, that has generally been pretty quick turnaround. But the manufacturer just can't keep up. And so we're delayed on that. So the intersection will have to continue to operate as it has for the last period of time since the four-way stop went in until we can get those poles and get them installed, unfortunately. Yeah, the contractor jumped right on it, got everything done that they could get done before school, but we just don't have the poles to be able to stand them.

That's understandable. That happens. Okay.

Any other questions there?

Just let's get regular updates on the timing if they ever define it, please. Very good.

Thank you. Okay. Next one is 100 East Roadway. Driving range netting.

Jonathan Stathis, City Engineering Department. I just wanted to give you a quick update on the 100 East project and also the netting, the driving range netting. So the 100 East project is close to being complete. Actually the south section from 625 north to 900 north is open. Oh it is? You can drive down through, I drove down through there today. It's striped. The section from 900 North going north up to Knoll Street is not open yet. The reason for that is there's some utility boxes that still need to be moved. We've been working with a couple of the utility companies for several months and unfortunately they've been delayed as well. We have been in contact with them this week and they're supposed to have that done within the next couple of weeks. And then we can get that last section finished off with the north end and get it tied in and get it opened up. So we're hopeful that's going to be done within the next few weeks. But the south section is open. I know the APA school is getting ready to start next week as well. So that should be able to function fine to be able for their drop off. The other thing on that is you will be seeing a final change order hopefully soon. A lot of that is for the work that was done along Jay Smith's property, which he's already paid for, but it just needs to be officially done as a change order on the project. So you'll be seeing that soon. As far as the driving range netting, we're working on a study to see exactly how tall it needs to be. We should have the results next week.

Oh, so it hasn't been ordered yet?

No, it has not been ordered. And so part of the delay has also been we've been working with the Forest Service. A portion of the netting is on the Forest Service property. Ken, I think I had an exhibit on that. I want to pull that up, thank you. But the Forest Service says we can get started. If they haven't officially approved it, we can get started on the construction, but it would be nice to have the official approval from them. So on the exhibit you can see, so the portion right through here at the north end of the driving range, That's on Forest Service property. And then it'll turn and then head south. Down to 675 north. So that's the proposed alignment for the netting. Like I said, there's a few things we're just trying to get finished up and then we'll get it get it bid and get it ordered.

If you want to shorten the study time, I can go out there with my driver and show you just how high.

I was going to say, we can show you how high a ball can go.

Yeah, me too. We'll be your huckleberry.

Jonathan, any idea that once the study is completed, how long it'll take for construction of this netting? I mean, I'm just concerned with the road opening now and cars going by there.

Yeah, I think they're saying once they get the materials, it's about two months to get it up and installed. So we're probably looking at, from today, we're probably looking at about four months until we can actually get it totally complete. Wow.

It's going to have to be a little bit higher than the netting that is on the other side that goes on... Right on eight there. Nine, I'm sorry, nine. Because there's a lot of balls that go over that net and they're constantly going right over them.

Sounds like Waldo and I shouldn't be hitting the driving range.

Don't be driving your vehicles down there. The other question is the road is open. Is the trail also available and ready to be used alongside the road? Yes. Okay.

and I saw people out there using it today.

Okay.

John, just so we don't get caught in the winter, in case we have one, is there any way that the city could, I just hate to be putting all this in if the ground's freezing and all that, so if we could get the poles or whatever expedited, maybe the city order them, but whatever, would you consider that so that we don't, we're not out here, four months is gonna put us, December, Things are changing fast. Just in case we don't, so if it's going to be a delay, maybe we order that parts and then, just so we get it in before weather hits. It's going to hit this year.

We're praying for record snowfall, so it's coming.

It says we're going to have it. It's the worst in El Nido.

We'll see what we can do on that to expedite things.

Any other questions on that one? Not on that one. No. Okay. Thanks, John.

Do you have the next one, too?

No. UDOT. Ken, you're taking this one? David's not here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. I'll take this one here. What we're looking at, and don't pay attention to what picture's up there. I just liked it, so I put it on my title slide. That is not Cedar City Main Street, as you might guess. but we can dream, right? So UDOT has started a new concept study on Main Street, and the best way to probably kind of let you know what's going on is to back up a little bit for the elected officials we have who weren't here when some of the previous work was done and just briefly review that. So we had, there have been some things that have been done previous to this current study. So we had the Cedar City Solutions Development Study that was done by Avenue Consultants that looked at all of the SR 130 or Main Street Corridor here in town as well as Highway 56 going out to the west, the 200 north portion as well as what goes further west, and really just looked at what do those roadways need to look like out into the future in order to handle the traffic that comes through. So that was one study that was done and I'll talk about that as we go through. And then there was kind of as part of that and with some follow on to that avenue consultant study, we had Blue Line Designs who did some streetscape planning for that downtown section between 200 north and 200 south. Okay, then kind of another piece of the overall discussion is that we brought an access management agreement with UDOT through council, what's that been, a year or so ago? A little over a year ago, I think. We brought that through. That also talks about some of the elements that come into play with overall what is the future of that roadway. So some of the results of that, the solutions development study made a recommendation for what the cross section of the road should look like in the downtown area. We're talking there about having bike lanes with a raised separator of some type. between the bike lane and the vehicle travel lanes, wide sidewalks on both sides in that section of the roadway. They had this little graphic in the report kind of given a 3D sketch of what that would kind of look like. We would continue to have two lanes of traffic each way, nothing changes with that. They looked at in the study whether just a three lane section, just a center turn lane and one lane each way could handle the traffic. The results of the study said no, that's not gonna handle it. They're talking about a planted median, like I said, to protect it on street bike lanes. There'd be a lot of new trees that were in that plan. So that's all part of what was looked at on that part right there. When we get outside of the downtown area, we'll have a little bit more room to work with potentially. So they've shown the lanes just a little bit wider on that. The sidewalk, six foot sidewalk on each side, that's per our city standard for arterial streets. You know, still have the buffered bike lane, but without it being a raised separator. It would have a striped buffer between the bike lane and the vehicular traffic.

So Kent, just really quick, so what... On the north end and on the south end, what is considered downtown and non-downtown? So on the north end, is it 200 north or does it go all the way to?

Yeah, so in the study, the way that downtown was defined was from 200 north to 200 south. Okay. So that was something that was developed there. In that study, they also looked at medians. They had some information in there about why medians are important, what the benefits of those are, and had some key locations identified in the study where the medians are perhaps most important that they go. Now this gets followed up by the access management plans. I'll kind of defer to the discussion of where the medians would be to that portion of my run through. But then from Blue Line Designs, there's a lot of information in their report, a lot of detail. This is kind of an overall view of that 200 north on the left to 200 south on the right. and just kind of a snapshot picture of what that would kind of look like. But then they did go in, in that study, there's a lot of discussion in there about the materials, right? You know, the rocks, the trees, the shrubs, you know, a lot of different things and including, they have a lot of sheets, I didn't want to throw all that on the screen for this, but the reports available that shows where all the trees would go and those kinds of things. So those are the two studies that were done and that's been a little while ago now. The blue line designs I think finished up about a year and a half to two years ago was when that was completed. Now, in the access management agreement with UDOT, there are a couple of key things that are identified there. One is where could all the traffic signals go, right? And this list here includes all of the existing traffic signals along Main Street and what ones could potentially, what intersections could potentially be signalized if they're warranted or justified in the future on the basis of traffic volumes. So we start down at the south interchange there, the one that's about to be rebuilt, and then we've got just right next to it there by Maverick, the Cedar Boulevard, and then you can see as you go through those, all of the signals as we go to the north. 400 South is one that's identified as a potential future location, one that would be an acceptable location to UDOT if it's justified. Also, 900 North is one that that could be. Now, the 900 north in the agreement, it says that that one is contingent on 100 east being extended to 900 north, which it now is. So that kind of removes that qualifier. But still, if it meets traffic volume warrants in the future, that one could be signalized 1600 north. is the next one, that's the one right by Jones Paint and Glass. And then Canyon Center Drive, which is the intersection where the Ag Credit building is. So those are the locations that there could be signals added in the future. The other thing that was kind of important that came out of this, and this picture is not in Cedar City on the screen, it was just kind of additional, hey, medians, this is kind of, but anyway, I just didn't want to have text only, so I threw a picture in that isn't Cedar City, but it's a raised median. That agreement that we have identifies locations where medians are anticipated to go, but where the priority locations are which would you know, likely indicate where they would go first, right? So on Main Street there, starting down towards the south, from the old Highway 91, now Cedar Boulevard, I forgot to edit it on here, sorry about that, to 400 south, that's an area where we would expect those, but the priority portion of that segment is kind of the 800 west to 535 south, that stretch through there. is where we have just a ton of driveways, a lot of conflicts that go on in that segment. That's an area where medians would likely go in first. Between 400 South and 1045 North, the priority portion is Center Street northward, and of course we already have some between Center Street and 200 North. And then you go from 1045 North up to DL Sargent, is an area that we would anticipate or that is anticipated in the agreement to have raised medians at some point. And Fiddler's Canyon Road to DL Sargent is kind of the priority portion of that. And then up at the far north end from the north interchange to 3000 North, The big issue there is that 2400 north intersection that's right on that fairly sharp curve, fairly steep grade. It's a really challenging location for the highway operations. And so there's some median improvements there to eliminate left turns at that location.

Is something like that. Ken, where is 24, is that about where,

Where the truck stop is. Pardon? 2400 North is where you make that. You're on the curve. Oh, right, right, right. You make the left into the truck stop and down to the bus stop. Got it.

Yeah, kind of running between the school district bus garage and the highway there. So those are locations that are addressed specifically in the access management agreement between UDOT and the city. So that's kind of just to give some background. Now what UDOT is looking at now, they've hired Mainline Engineering to come in and take all of this information and actually do some conceptual design layout throughout this corridor for what this could look like and are there areas that right away needs to be acquired to implement these plans. A lot of those kinds of things they'll be looking at, looking at what kind of impacts there might be that we need to try to figure out some solutions to as we try to come up with actual design drawings to implement all of this. So that's really where we're at today is we're looking at at all of that. That's what the consultant is looking at. And there's no construction money attached to this study. This is really to come up with what does it all need to look like, how could this feasibly be broken into phases in some kind of priority basis, and then go after funding for the phases This is a plan that could take a number of years to fully implement improvements throughout the corridor. So that's what's being looked at. I didn't have a slide of that because nothing's been developed yet. But they're looking at the typical section, trying to apply that to actual dimensions out there. to come up with a plan. Now, one of the things that we've kind of discussed, and Justin Christensen, the UDOT PM is here, and he can jump up and answer questions if you have any for him, but one of the things we've talked about is, you know, there was a lot of public involvement that was done earlier, a lot of comments received that went into that avenue consultant study, right, and to the work that Blue Line Designs was doing. Right now, the idea is we're trying to come up with how does this section fit in? How does all this work? We're recognizing that there will be raised medians, but this study isn't intending to come down to final decisions on where every break in the median would be. That's gonna be a design decision with accompanying public involvement in the future as these different segments that are identified go into final design and you know depending on funding source and may need to be environmental studies all those kinds of things right that would happen at that point there would be a lot of public involvement at that point so so right now it's looking at you know the the in terms of where medium breaks would be, that's more conceptual at this point. Those decisions would be made later and that would be accompanying public involvement at that time. So I don't know what questions you have. This is going on. The study just started. The kickoff meeting was a couple weeks ago. Yeah, so it's been just recently that this project has kicked off. We want a council to be aware of this so that if you hear some rumors about, oh, UDOT's doing something on Main Street, well, right now it's just a study, but it's a study that can lead us directly into formulating some construction projects that can be designed and constructed later.

We don't need to do anything. You're just letting us know.

We don't need to do anything right now. I just wanted to give council kind of some background on this and let you know that the study is going on. It's underway. Mainline is working on the study currently.

Okay, any questions? I just had a question, and I'm not sure if it's you, Kander, or perhaps the gentleman from UDOT, but when these raised mediums do go in, wherever they end up being and whatever priority, obviously some people's favorite turn-ins into some of their businesses or hotspots won't happen. So will there be appropriate accommodations for U-turns and things like that to get back to those businesses on the other side? I mean, that's gotta be taken into consideration.

Yeah.

Do you want to address that, Justin? Sure. And then the second part of that, while he's coming up, I just want to say I'm glad you showed a picture of raised medians that wasn't strictly concrete, or at least it's colored concrete, because I think there's a lot of ways we can look at doing raised medians.

Yeah. And the idea of that is, I mean, a lot of times when we have raised medians, we're just trying to fit it in between traffic lanes, and all you can get is a strip of concrete, right?

Right.

Most of the, and there will be some of that as you go in, but wherever possible, the idea is to let's make this something more attractive, something where we have some type of plantings or something else that will give us something that's spruced up, something that's an aesthetic benefit rather than just concrete.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Justin Christianson, Region 4 UDOT project manager assigned to this concept study. I want to thank Kent for doing an excellent job of giving us the full picture as we see yet another study.

I know. Yet another study. Could have paid to put the medians in.

Yes, yes. So, Councilman Phillips, so where this is conceptual at this point, I can't speak to every location. No, and I didn't expect you to. Yes, during each phase, we will hold those public open houses, and we will try to identify those locations where it makes the best sense to have those opportunities. We are working with the fire department and the police department to identify some other options, you know, so emergency vehicles have access to some of those streets that have just a single connection onto Main Street, and so that we aren't reducing their reaction times. We do wanna be sensitive to that.

Sure. And some of these pictures, you're taking out a lot of parking spaces. I would hope that you would consider some places, we're gonna have to add parking or a parking lot or a parking garage, or we're gonna have to do something It'll be really nice to have a downtown that you can't park at. So I hope that you are looking at that also, because no place to park is no good.

Yes, there will definitely be some of those impacts, and we will be looking at that and working with the city as well.

Yeah, and a lot of that was discussed in all the public involvement that was done as part of the Avenue Consultant Study, because that study recommended eliminating all of that parking in favor of bike lanes. right, these buffered bike lanes. And so at this point, you know, UDOT is looking at how do we implement what already came out of that study that involved a lot of public input.

Well, especially since we're not a brand new town. We've got quite a few older, wiser generation around here. So they're going to want a place to park. And so let's throw in a parking garage or extend one or do something. Just give us a place to park. I like trees, but I don't care about trees if you can't park.

But you want to park under a tree.

Yeah, park under a tree. But I want a place to park. Don't take out all the parking.

Well, if there is no parking, there is no people, right? I mean, you just drive by a street that is beautiful and keep going on your way because you won't be able to shop downtown or do anything. So we need to sort that out.

It might not be on me, but right behind or something. We've got to do something.

Right, yes. As I said, we want to build upon these previous studies that have been conducted by the downtown district, these businesses who have kind of made some of these decisions earlier on. We do want to consider those and continue to work with the city.

And I would just mention that when we get to that point, those decisions on where the median breaks are gonna go isn't gonna be easy because obviously every one of those decisions has an impact on someone. And in fact, we may have some instances where even a public street doesn't have left turn access. Good example of that is 860 West. We have 860 West that runs by the high school on the west side of the high school where it ties into Main Street. It's offset a short distance from 860 West that comes from the other side of Main Street. That's a very dangerous location right now with the conflicting left turn there, people trying to get into the median to make a left turn going northbound, conflicting with people getting into the median to make a left turn going southbound. And so some of those things in the interest of safety, there are some decisions that aren't gonna be very popular that are gonna have to be made, but that'll come as part of the detailed design of each of the segments.

The question I wanted to clarify, too, is working with UDOT on our interchanges. So we do these raised medians. I'm assuming UDOT has everything cement is what we pay for. And then anything that we want to do to pretty it up, we get to pay for and maintain? Depends on the contract.

I was going to say, I'd have to look into that, get a little clarification for you on that one. For maintenance, it's always been one of those. Gotcha. I would suspect that's probably how they'd run it. Okay.

Waldo, did you have another question?

No, just, I mean, we need to put, obviously, safety over aesthetics, and also we need to be careful not to hurt the businesses that are up and down that corridor, all the way from the south to the north area of the interchanges. This one over here on 2400 North, if we put a race median up there, there's three different businesses that will cease to exist because they can't get in there and have access in the big trucks. I know you guys are looking at all of that, but we need to be sensitive to it.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you.

Mayor, I had a personal privilege, and you just kind of jumped, you just went right to staff comment.

I did. There wasn't anything on the agenda, so you can speak up any time.

Personal privilege. Sorry. You're good. I have two items here I wanted to bring up. One of them is the West Canyon Park ditch. We've had some injuries again, some pretty serious injuries over there. So I think we need to revisit that. And I know we had a discussion a few months ago. So I just want to bring that up so we can get it on the agenda to talk about what are the next steps and what do we want to do and how do we go from here. Because we kind of left it in limbo that we would not do anything, leave the signage up, let people try and get through the summer, and we've done that. But now there's been a couple other pretty serious accidents, so we just have to.

We probably need to get on the agenda and just have a discussion again. I feel the same way, but we'll see where it goes.

Then the number two is weeds. Sage Drive is looking terrible. and then from Culver's to Dutch Brothers. And I'm not talking about that funny space, I'm talking within the sidewalk itself. So I want us to address that since we talked about trying to control the weeds in our budget this year and I wanna make sure that's on somebody's docket.

I see Mr. Marshall furiously taking notes. Thank you.

Those are my two items, thank you. Perfect, thank you.

Okay, we'll jump to our business agenda. Number one is a public hearing considering a zone change for residential dwelling, two unit R22. Who's here for this one?

Uh-oh.

This is standard plumbing supply. Yeah, I'm happy to discuss it, but yeah, I don't see him.

All right, looks like this one gets moved to the next work meeting.

It's up to you. I'm happy to discuss whatever you want.

I mean, I don't think it's a big issue, but I think we do need to. Well, I think we should have the public hearing because we have. Oh, yeah, we have. But if they can, I think we should have the discussion if they happen to be here next week. If they make it next week, then we consider it at that point. But they got to come to one of the two meetings, in my opinion. If they happen to miss one of them, that's one thing, but they've got to come to one of them.

Okay, so this one, from my understanding, is fairly simple. You've got standard plumbing that's on the main street portion of this lot. It's all one lot. The south portion of the lot, however, is currently R22. They want to switch that to CC to match the rest of their property and the property that's all to the west and the like.

Yeah, the new one, yeah.

They didn't really give us a whole lot of details on what they're intending to use it for. Right now, it's already used for storage for the business anyway, so it's not like it's changing in that regard.

Yeah, I mean, this one... Well, there's no access to it, is there, from a... No, it's on the back.

No, you have to go through Standard and Columbia.

Yeah, it would come through their lot or an adjacent lot. I'm assuming, if you pull up the map, are those homes right adjacent to it on 860? Are they all zoned, aren't you, too? Is that how...

I believe those are zoned R22.

So it's just when they bought this piece.

Yeah, the general plan already has the entirety of their parcel as commercial.

Yeah, it's.

Okay, any questions? If not, I'll open the public hearing. Is there anybody from the public that would like to speak to this zone change? Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing.

I would move that you put this on action for next week. I have a motion. And who's the second?

Robert? Councilman Cox.

All in favor? Aye. Any opposed?

And Randall, can you reach out to them and say we would like to see somebody if possible? I'm sorry, the second is out. Councilman Cox. Councilman Cox.

Okay, number two, public hearing to consider a general plan change from rural estates to business light manufacturing and from central commercial to high density residential to heavy manufacturing in the vicinity of 800 North Iron Springs Road.

Mike with Platt Engineering.

Welcome back, Mr. Platt. Is it good to be back? We haven't seen you in a long time.

It's been good, hasn't it? Especially for us. I know. I know. Well, I told... and that probably you'll never see me do a general plan change, but never say never, here I am, but this one makes sense. This is a precursor. I've been meeting with the mayor, we met with Paul, we met with Randall, we met with the city engineer, we met with the county. We're not going to get into the future development, the annexation. Today, we met with all the entities and And if there's any questions on the annexations, future development, we know the sewer is coming. We are working on putting together a presentation that Warren happy to put together the third week in August here shortly. So you can see what's coming down. This is strictly the general plan change. And if possible, I'd like to keep the questions just to the general plans case. We'll show everything in a couple of weeks of what's going on.

So is this a general plan change for property that's yet to still be annexed into the city?

Yes.

Oh, okay.

So the county's plan and the city's plan do not jive, if that makes sense. I'm sorry? The current zoning in the county and the city's general plan do not line up.

I'm so surprised.

Oh, what a shock. But we're setting the stage because, like I said, with the future developments, what we want to do with, and if everything goes according to plan, then. And this is one less step that we have to do to make it all work. We want to get ahead of the curve, if that makes sense. So we just want to change these general plans to industrial heavy manufacturing on the east side of Iron Springs and industrial heavy manufacturing to business light manufacturing on the west, because you do have some neighborhoods around here. And so we want to kind of buffer that from the heavy duty manufacturing that's going to be right along Iron Springs Road.

Remind me again, the acreage, what are we talking about?

It's about 120 acres.

Can we look at this in, can you pull this up on the general plan map?

I tried to go out there today to look at it, but of course we're in the middle of road construction on Iron Springs and one lane roads.

It takes forever to get through.

Yeah, I just gave up.

Yeah, currently it's this right here. And the city has a hodgepodge of general plan anyways, so...

So does part of this take into the turf? Is the turf farm part of this? No. Okay, so it's everything just west of the turf. Yeah.

It does butt up against Iron Springs Road.

Yes. And according to the county zoning, everything that you're asking for the city, it actually is in the county.

It is, and currently it's zoned, I'll use the word very correctly, in the county. Yeah.

So right now, you just want to know if we would be.

You need to turn your mic on, sir.

Right now, you just want to know if we'd be okay with all this. Yes. Okay. I don't see a problem with it. I don't either. Yeah, let's put it on the agenda.

It's what's out there already. It's what's going out there.

Yeah, it makes sense. You want to put it on the agenda, Scott?

Well, we got to open the public hearing first, so. Any other questions for Mike?

I know, but yeah.

Okay, seeing no more questions for you, we'll open the public hearing. Anybody want to speak to this one? Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing and entertain a motion.

I'll make a motion that we move this general plan change from rural estate to business and light manufacturing and from central commercial and high-desi residential to industrial heavy manufacturing. in the vicinity of 800 North Iron Springs Road that we move it to action for next week.

I have a motion. Second. And a second. All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay, thank you. Next one is a discussion on insurance policy for the flock cameras.

Good evening, Mayor, Council, and staff, Darren Adams with the Police Department. As you know, over the last two weeks, we've had eight of our cameras destroyed, five that were cut down, poles were cut down, and two wires were removed, and then one, the camera was just stolen off the pole. This happened a few days after the renewal contract occurred. And so I just wanted to bring this to the Council as an option, Obviously there's a fee schedule that Flock has where they will come out and repair those and or replace. They offer this as an option as well that you can purchase the insurance which they would make retroactive and then you can see from your packet there the amount because of the proration of where the contract is and implementation fees when we first set up the cameras. The first year would be $5,340 which would take us from now until July of next year and then After that, it's $25,000 a year for the life of the contract. That is two years. Questions?

Councilman Schmidt first.

Do we have any idea who was doing this? Is there any other cameras in the area that we could pull? No.

We have some minor leads that we're following up on, but as you know, the cameras, we're not able to search images on that. So even if somebody was standing in front of that and we could have a suspect, they won't search for people.

So they actually do what they said they do?

Yeah, that proves it to everybody.

It's kind of a roundabout way to get confirmation of that. I'm very disappointed in our members of our community that participated in this act of vandalism. There's no way to... to behave in a community like ours, so I just want that on the record.

So Chief, I mean. Sorry, Councilman Phillips. Sorry, go ahead.

I just wanted to ask, the 25,000 that is the quote unquote insurance, does that cover any damages on any number of things? I mean, they could wipe out every single camera and.

They would come and replace all of them at no extra charge.

Okay, so this is more of a, I mean, a user fee almost. I mean, we're paying them to take care of their equipment.

Yeah, there's a fee schedule that they put in the contract initially, so it's so much for a camera replacement, it's so much to move a camera if we want, so much for the pole, and that obviously adds up. I think the estimate for the eight that we're going to repair or replace is in the neighborhood of $23,000.

Now, if a camera breaks just for hardware purposes, is that still on us?

No, well, that would be on them. If it was an issue with the camera itself, if it was vandalism or damage, but if it's an internal issue, that's internal.

So this is a vandalism-only insurance policy?

Yeah, damage, vandalism, destruction.

Yeah, I mean, it could be a normal car accident. In that case, I would hope we'd go after whoever's car hit the pole. But, you know, Chief, I mean, you and I talked a little bit about this on the phone. And I don't know still how I feel about it. I don't love it just because I think, you know, as we've talked about, right, this is a pretty fresh scab. And we're poking at it again a little bit here. And I worry that it almost gives people I don't know, it feeds into, in my opinion, a little bit, the people that have vandalized, which again, I don't like it whatsoever, but I'm worried that when they find out there's an insurance covering it, they're just gonna... Do it even more because it's not coming out of the taxpayer's pocket app now. It's coming out of FLOX insurance policy.

Just tell them we're going to change the camera to show everything around here.

Well, you go ahead and tell them that. So I don't know. We had already talked about that. And of course, the funny thing is I was in the insurance industry for 10 years. Insurance is like legal form of gambling almost. Because some years we might need it and some years you don't need it. So this is definitely a hard one. And so just to clarify, because you and I talked a little bit about this. So it falls in conjunction with the actual contract. So if we say yes now, this will take us until July of next year.

Yeah, the 5340 would get us to July of next year. Then it'd be $25,000 July of 2027 and July of 2028.

What would be, I mean, what's the cancellation before one of those contract renewals? So like if we say yes to this one, when do we have until to, if we say, you know, we don't want to renew it next year at the 25,000, what could we do? How would we, how do you cancel?

I think that contract is specific to the overall master services agreement. There'd have to be some sort of a breach for us to cancel.

Yeah, because it would be tied to the contract, right?

Correct.

Well, and so that contract we've already, I guess, that's my question. So since we've already signed or we've agreed to the contract starting in 27, right, that's what we did, that's what we voted on.

So it actually starts now and goes to 2028. The new contract starts this month, the renewal, and goes two years.

Okay, so we would be, by saying yes to this, if we said yes to this, it would be the 5300 and the first one of 25,000.

Yes, if you see, this is just an amendment to the existing agreement.

Gotcha, okay. So can I assume, Chief, that in addition to vandalism, this will also cover things like if we had a tornado and the cameras were ripped off, or we had heavy snows and the the thing was buried and short circuited, whatever, it'll cover all of those damages.

Any damage, vandalism, destruction?

I'd like to, in my mind, I hate to keep talking about vandalism, but it's always good to protect the city from having to spend money either on vandalism or other types of damages on an ongoing basis, one where you've already voted for these cameras to be up there. So my opinion, we need to buy the insurance.

I probably don't agree with that but sorry not to be disagreeable but I think the flurry of vandalism is probably over and I hope the good people of Cedar City step up and if they have a problem with it let's go through the proper process to rectify it as opposed to resorting to vandalism. That's just elementary, childish, whatever you want to call it. And I think that little flurry may be over. I'm willing to say let's, especially the one concern I have is this policy is actually written by flock to ensure their own stuff and I'm not real comfortable with that either. So I would say let's just see what it brings and go from there, and maybe we'll look back and wish we had.

It's like any insurance policy, right? Well, one of my questions actually was that idea of when you're self-insuring, that's really what Flock's doing. They're providing a policy for their own stuff. Have you looked into is there any kind of a policy that you can get that would cover them outside of going to Flock?

I haven't looked at that, only because they own the hardware. So that could be something we could look at. That may be a question for Flock that I could get an answer for.

Yeah, I don't know if in the private market there's some kind of a soft or a hardware policy.

Yeah, I'd be a lot more comfortable with that if that's the direction.

I don't like giving them more money, and I tend to agree with Robert, too, that I've had people try to reference, they know there's going to be more tea in the harbor before this is over, and I... I just, I hope that the citizens in general recognize we have a functioning, genuine group of elected officials that listen. And for those that are out there believing that they're rights are somehow been violated in a very open and transparent process that those that were elected to represent the citizens made a decision. I hope that other citizens that know of who they are will come forward and punish them for stealing their tax dollars. It's not the Sons of Liberty fighting against a tyrannical government. That is not a fair comparison, and to me it's somewhat of an offensive comparison to the Sons of Liberty. So I would, instead of giving more money to flock, I would instead ask citizens to step up and help us catch the guys that are taking their tax dollars. And we're gonna review the thing in two years and we may not have flock cameras anymore, right? But we have a fair open process with people who genuinely are serving and trying to do the best they can for their community. So let's honor it rather than try to tear it down.

Thank you for saying that. I couldn't have said it better myself.

So, well, with that, Mayor, I would just move that we put this on action for next week and we'll decide. But I do appreciate, I mean, it's good to know we have the option, right? I mean, we talked a little bit about that.

Yeah, that was my purpose, just to bring information.

Right, right.

Appreciate it.

Appreciate it, Chief. Thanks, Chief. Thank you. Oh. To put it on action, yeah. I said put it on action and then we. Second.

Motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, thank you.

The answer is no.

Thank you for keeping us on track, Amber.

Mike Phillips with the Fire Department.

I just got the...

If it's a Ford, no. If it's a Chevy, then yes. Well, funny story. I'm out. I was telling...

Three of our vehicle fires have been ports, and then we were really looking for some insight and guidance, and then one got struck by lightning on the freeway, and that settled it for us. Lots of happens when we're all aluminum, they melt. Aluminum melts. Lightning came from above a vehicle going 87 miles an hour. All right, I'll agree to it then. So what is this truck for? This is just a new squad truck. Squad truck, so it's just a cab chassis, then we build the box and put all the equipment on it, so it's just the

So these are the quick response. These are like the ones that saved my house. Yes.

Yeah. How do we know when looking at this bid if this will sort of match the overall budget for the process? Because we're kind of doing it in chunks. It looks like getting the chassis and then. Just it works out? It'll work out.

We've done it. Because how many of these squad trucks do we have? Well, there's two of them right now, so this will be the third one we're building.

And he wouldn't be buying this if he couldn't put the stuff on it, so he probably knows what those parameters are.

The box that's going to go on it is probably about $62,000, and then the equipment that goes on from there.

And are these ones with the heavier box, are these still gassers? These are diesel. These are diesel because they carry the heavy box. Are they a dual rear wheel? Dual rear wheel. Oh, so these are a dually. Okay. So they're heavy. Okay, any questions? And our local bidder didn't want to do it. He did. No, local bidder did not.

Local bidder, I thought they compared and that's who you're going with. No, they chose not to match.

They chose not to. It's going with Young Chevrolet. So we're going with Young Chevrolet out of Salt Lake or wherever. So he wouldn't match? Nope. Nope.

Mayor, I would, unless there's any further discussion, I would move that we put this item on consent for next week. I have a motion.

Second. Give it to him.

And a second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. I'm keeping score, Chief.

Okay. There we go. Darren buys the Fords. Even teachers circle the problem.

Okay, and then we have an appointment. First, I guess, just the recognition of releases and thank you for their service for the library board, Elaine Vickers. and then Chris Barrison from the Board of Adjustments, and then the appointment of, this is somewhat close names, so you have Brent Porter and then Brant Parker for those two. Yeah, that's a mouthful, isn't it?

I know.

You know, Mayor, if I may, I just want to say to Mr. Parker, I mean, this is, I think this is how things are supposed to work. You know, you got involved because of some things that were hitting close to home for you, and you stuck with it, and you've been part of the, you know, you've been part of the solution, and I think this is the fruit of that, that, you know, now you get to help out other people that were in situations similar to yours, so.

Come on up. Give the council a chance, introduce yourselves, both of you, and give the council a chance to ask you questions.

Yep, so Brant Parker. My wife started an in-home daycare. It was a two-year adventure, and so I went to the meeting on Monday, and there was another daycare, and they were having some pains, and so I was very familiar with trying to do that.

Hi, I'm Brent Potter.

Been in town for a few years now and started the Southern Utah Book Festival, so used the library quite a bit.

Got to know Dallin, knew Steve Decker also, so I'm very honored to be suggested for this position.

Makes perfect sense. Any questions for either of these? I just want, Brent, how is the daycare going? Brandt.

Brandt. Yeah, the daycare is up on the north side of town, and we have spots available for kids. We're in the middle of the hay fields, so we're not as convenient for a normal daycare, but my wife enjoys it.

Good.

And I do echo you, Carter, on you particularly getting involved and recognizing and demonstrating that you're level-headed and reasonable and willing to, to try to help people, but still be fair and consistent with ordinance and policy, and I appreciate both of your willingness to serve.

Mayor, I think these are two great appointments through boards, and I would move that we put this on consent for next week.

Second. I have a motion and a second. All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Thank you. Okay, next one is to consider bids for the cemetery renovation phase four.

I think I'm on the wrong.

Okay, here we go. Cemetery renovation phase four. We have recently put this one out to bid, opened bids for it. We have our low bidder is Advanced Construction and Design. That's the company that, they built the Cody Drive improvements for us and I'm not sure what else they have done here in town.

Are they local? I don't know. It's fine.

I'm not sure where they are located, to be honest. But they've done some good work for us. They're the low bidder. We have no reason to not, we can see, award that to them. They certainly are qualified to do the work. So our proposal is that they be awarded this contract. in the amount of $282,664 for this phase of the cemetery improvements.

Okay, Council Member Wilkie.

My only thing on this, and no more than just this, is I just hope it's designed correctly this time. Well, that was my question. I'm sure there's a lot that's behind the scenes, and I haven't been part of it, but I know other people have, and I just wanted to go in there with a full-size pickup and be able to make a turn and not have to do a four-point turn in my pickup truck, so that would be nice.

Did we clarify the type of curbs we're using?

I thought we were using flat curves or modified roll, a little bit of both. Well, that's what we talked about.

Jonathan, do you want to talk to that?

Because we had quite a discussion last year about this. I want to make sure we're not down this road again.

That's all I can do. Jonathan Stathis. Ken, would you be able to pull up the construction drawings, please? I apologize, I'm not quite as knowledgeable.

I thought Councilman Schmidt would be all over this. Yeah.

Well, we already had a major discussion a while ago. I thought you designed it right. It's in the city. Do we have a detail, Jonathan?

Yeah, there should be a detail as you go down. Yeah. Yeah, it's right there. Yeah, a little of both. Yeah, so we have the flat curb. Ken, if you scroll down just a little bit. So that shows the section detail of the roadway. There's a flat curb and then there's just, yeah, the very soft roll curb.

We're trying to eliminate building way up or way down, right? Sure, yes. And then I see there's a few tree spots. Are we putting the trees where we can actually into the cemetery, though, or are we taking drive access out?

So in this particular phase, there's only one bulb out. So it's on that lane. There's the pointer here. So this line here, this is the existing roadway, or I should say the main roadway that goes down past the cemetery office.

Yeah, so that's kind of the back entry.

Yeah, so that'd be kind of the back entry. Sexton's office is down in that corner. Yes, down this corner. Okay. And then the old cemetery house is up here. Okay. So that road's really not changing too much other than just adding that kind of curving on that east side of the road. This is the next roadway over to the east, and we're only putting in one bulb out there.

So you're doing that to make it so it'll be a one-way road. Yes, yes.

So I think kind of the feedback we got was that there were maybe too many bulb outs in the other roadways. So we're just adding one so that people know it's a one way. Yeah, so just to kind of differentiate that, I believe it's one way going south.

I think you're correct.

We are putting root protection on them so the root trees don't go into the road. I believe so, yes.

Can you go to the actual, when we're done here, can we actually go to the decision paper because I want people to know where 6R is located in the cemetery itself.

Yeah, there should be, yeah, the overall. Oh, okay, yeah.

It's that section right there. And as you can see at the top north, that's where all those great old trees are that are all going to be taken out.

I didn't design the road, Scott.

So that road between 5R and 6R, was that part of the last project or that's part of this one? The road at the north end of 6R, right there. That's part of this project. Okay, so that one's part of this one. Yes, it is part of this project.

Because if you notice in the bid documents, there's about $120,000 for tree removal.

So Mr. Ferngully designed this?

So on that, when you talk about on the bid, Does their bid include the 120? Because you got the 120, so who's removing the trees?

I'm sure it's...

It's Wade Orem, I'm sure.

Wade Orem, yeah, probably. Roots to leave. Roots to leave.

So that's a whole separate contract.

Yeah, it's right there.

There's the...

He's pretty much the only one in town who... Well, he's the actual licensed arborist, and he understands. Yeah.

So yeah, as far as this part of it is, my only concern was, and it doesn't even have to do necessarily with the contractor, but it's the design. And again, I don't want to get into the weeds of it, but hopefully it was designed correctly this time.

Councilman Phillips and I had a lot of time.

And it looked good, Phil.

I hope we're OK with it.

They were trusting you on, did you review those plans?

This was Councilman Phillips and I.

You read a set of plans a lot better than Councilman Phillips does though.

But I thought if they took what we talked about and I think it'd be fine. Good. We just wanted to make sure.

All right, we'll trust between now and next week that you've reviewed that construction set of drawings. I will, Jonathan, I will be up in your office this week.

With that, Mayor, I move that we put that on consent.

I have a motion.

For this phase? For the total phase, it's $440,664.

And that's within budget? $80,000 under budget, $84,000 under budget. So far. So far.

But the contract to be awarded is for $282,664. That's what I'm voting on. Yeah, that $440,000 is just overall cost with other things that aren't part of what this action item is.

Correct.

Okay, so I have a motion and a second for consent.

Who was the second? I was. I was going to say, I don't think you had a second. Now you do.

All in favor? Aye. Any opposed?

Good thing you prayed for humor tonight.

Yeah, it was good. I liked that.

Okay. Seven was struck. So eight is consider an agreement with UDOT for Fiddler's Canyon Trail extension.

Jonathan Stathis. So we've been working with UDOT to... get approval to use the box culvert going under Main Street as part of the Fiddler's Trail project. So this is just near the new Fiddler's Park that's being constructed currently. And I believe there's an exhibit. If you could pull that up, please.

I don't even know where this culvert is. Apparently, I don't get out enough, because I have never seen it.

Is this part of the channel that they've just redone?

Yes.

How big is this car? I've never been. It's very similar to the one just up here. Yeah.

How tall is it? The West Park.

I believe it's eight feet tall. I've never stopped.

Have you been through the one up by West Canyon Park? I've been through that one.

That's very similar.

You can walk through it.

So water, though, because I remember when we had one of these rains, I happened to be driving past our new park, and that thing was ripping. There was a lot of water coming down through there. So this will have water in it at times. So it's not always.

And the contract is very explicit about certain conditions.

Yes, it is.

So a few things in the contract that I just wanted to make you aware of. So it talks about, of course, the city's responsible to construct and maintain the trail in the culvert area. If the city does work within the UDOT right of way, then the city needs to obtain an encroachment permit. And we kind of pushed back a little bit on that, but they came, UDOT came back and said, no, anytime you do work in there, we would need to obtain a permit. But they said there's no charge for it. Okay. So. That's fair. What is it?

Sorry, I'm sorry, John. I'll let you finish. Excuse me.

I'll go ahead. So the other, and there is an item in there that gates need to be installed on each side of the culvert so that those gates can be closed in the event of a... Who put that in? That's one of UDOT's requirements.

So they're going to require us, if there's a rainstorm, to send an employee down in an active flood channel to close a gate?

And you're good with that?

Big no on the gate.

Tell them no. So where we're planning to put the gates are further up on the trail, not directly down in the flood channel.

So I guess... Oh, you block the trail up at the top?

Yeah, so basically somewhere up here before it gets down into the flood channel, there would be a gate. and then the same thing on the other side.

What is this gate? What does it look like?

What's the gate for?

It's to stop pedestrians from going down through the culvert during a rain event.

Oh, but what about logs and rocks?

So this is a little bit, I don't know if you can tell. This is actually a gate that's on a trail in St. George. So the gate is actually up on higher ground. It's a little bit higher.

It's not down in the flood channel.

Yeah, it's not in the culvert.

I see.

And so I just ask people, the flood channel's actually further.

Okay. I mean, obviously, if a person wanted to easily walk around that gate, they could, but at least it's our way of telling them, hey, don't go down that path.

Robert Adjusum.

I'm just wondering if we really want gates. Then you're notifying people, hey, we're responsible to tell you when it's safe and unsafe, and common sense should tell you if there's water in there, it's unsafe. Yeah, I agree with Robert. Short of, you know, children. But then, you know, we don't have one up here and there's water that runs in the one there. So I'm wondering if that's really a direction we ought to go with the gates, to be honest.

Yeah, I would agree with Councilman Robert. If we put the gate and then let's say somebody doesn't close it. Yeah, then we're liable. Then we're liable for it. And it's two seconds to walk around it. I think Mr. Incredible has something to say. I'm not in favor of the gate.

Ken stood up like he's got something he wants to say.

Ken Nelson with Leisure Services. I don't like the gate idea at all because I don't see any difference between what we currently have for Coal Creek under Little League and Main Street. It floods every time. That's the reason you don't go under during a rainstorm, but it's not required for one of us to go tell people not to go under that one under Little League right there to the south of the reservation floods.

Do we have signs because what I'm thinking is I mean it'd be very easy to put just a sign up that said this is an active flood channel use precaution in high water. I mean at least do we have anything like that at any of the other culverts?

Did you have this discussion Randall with their attorneys on this contract?

No, I didn't talk to him about the fence part of it. I talked primarily about what we were needing the encroachment permit to do anything.

I mean, we lived in Vegas a long time ago, but they used their flood channels for recreation and for skateboard parks and for everything else, and you just knew when water's in there, you don't go in there.

I think you push back on the gates, no gates.

We did go back and ask if we could just put the signs up and they said no, they wanted the gates.

Jonathan, let's go above them. Who's the next guy above because that really is dumb.

We're not asking them, okay? We're not asking them. We're telling them we're not putting gates in.

Yeah, but we're also going through their box culvert. It's their culvert. Yeah.

Well, it's in our town.

But I agree, I think we should try and go higher if we need to go higher.

If you have to, go to Senator Vickers. He knows the head of Utah really well.

Carlos is in Cedar City right now. He's at the Utah One Summit right now.

So let's push hard to get that.

Something that we should put on Randall as opposed to Jonathan to talk to their, let's do that.

Because the legal side, there's really good arguments to say that it creates more liability, not less.

Jonathan.

Yeah, so we made, as staff, we made multiple runs at UDOT on this. And I don't know that it's the UDOT personnel that have any concerns about this. It's the AG's office who they have to get approval from on the agreement that wasn't willing to bend, even with signage or anything else we proposed. So if we're gonna get this overturned, I mean, we either have no path, go through there, or it's gonna take some kind of an end around the AG's office to get us there. Okay?

I'd involve Senator Vickers. We can get state reps involved if we have to. Sounds like the council wants to try and end around, so.

Are there any other examples of gates like this in their other covers that they've done?

I don't think we use any of their codes. Well, I'm just talking about in the state.

But that's just it. We do use their culverts. We go underneath Main Street right by Brad's. If there's no gates there, we go underneath Center Street up by the West Canyon Park, and there's no gates there. That's just in Cedar City. If you go to St. George, there's culverts running under a ton of UDOT roads, and there's no gates there.

And their trail systems, yeah. Yep. Okay, we'll brainstorm on the end around on how to work on that one. You can come on up.

I have another question from Jonathan.

Mary Pryor, I just wondered whose money it is, UDOT's money or the city's money that's doing the trail expansion?

Cedar City. Yeah, we're the ones that like trails.

Okay, so do you have a total of that anywhere? But you're not getting any money from UDOT?

We're just getting approval. We did get some money from UDOT. As I remember, it was about $400,000 or something, didn't we? $420,000 or something.

And how much of Cedar City's money? Do we know?

We don't. Not sitting right here.

For just this particular piece? They were putting up enough money that they were going to say they had to say so.

Well, they have to say it because they're covert, but... We're going to lean on them. Any other questions for Jonathan?

I have a question. Jonathan, on item 3 under the license, UDOT hereby provides a non-exclusive license to the city. Down the road, could they have other businesses, other people be using this covert and it's going to interfere with the trail? I don't know what that would be necessarily.

And legally, the answer is yes. If they need to get under there, say, to access something underneath the road, say there's a utility there or whatever else, yeah, it's UDOTs.

Okay.

But we're not going to have, I don't know, a soda business wanting to put a little stand down there. Now, UDOT doesn't usually let people run businesses in the middle of their property. They also want to protect their rights. I know that was a far-fetched question. Yeah, they just want, we can't block them off their own property. No, I understand that.

That's their goal. I do understand that, yeah. Okay. Got it. Thank you.

Okay. Anything else? This would be the hot button item tonight.

Yeah. Just a couple other things that have come up when we reviewed it. One of the items in the agreement says that UDOT can give the city a reasonable amount of time to relocate or remove the trail. We tried to get a firm definition on what that time frame would be, but they didn't. give us anything, they just said a reasonable time.

That's not a big deal, they're not gonna move it. They have to have access, I mean, the water's coming there, they're not gonna change the entire creek coming down. Yeah, that's a pretty little risk. It's gonna have to stay there.

The difference though is that yes, they'll keep the water flowing, but if they wanna block us out from this, this is reasonable notice, they'll just end our trail.

Well, then we can just go up and over, around, or figure out something.

But I think the goal is that they would prefer us not using the crosswalk a ton because that slows down traffic on Main Street.

This is a mutual.

This is a safety thing.

We want to get kids to and from Canyonview High School and Canyonview Middle School that don't have to cross SR 130. Exactly.

Yeah. One of the things the agreement does reference the final construction drawings being attached to the agreement and so that will need to be done once the construction drawings are complete and we're getting very close to having those done. But those are the main things that we were concerned about. Like I said, we did go back to UDOT to try to get some of these things changed but they weren't willing to change those. But we will go back to them on the gates.

Thank you. Can we put this on action?

We'll make a motion and we'll put it on action.

Yep, and then we'll decide next week if we're... That's a motion. Yep, add to motion.

Second.

And a second, all in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Great. And discussion on upcoming water projects in back of January.

Boy, Jonathan, this was quite an epistle.

This one actually has your name on it, though. The others you've been filling in and cameoing for somebody else.

Jonathan Stathis, so I apologize, I do get a little wordy when I start writing, so I apologize.

No, spoken like a true engineer.

Let's see, Ken, I believe I had a presentation, if you could pull that up, please.

I always preferred picture books when I was a kid.

So I'll be going through this. There's quite a bit of information here, so if you do have questions, please let me speak up. Otherwise, just wait till the end and we can discuss it. So as we got looking at all the projects we're working on right now, there's also been an issue come up about having backup generators at all the existing water facilities. And unfortunately I think I was out of town on vacation when we had the power outage. I must have missed it because when I got back I heard about it so I apologize. But obviously that's becoming more of an issue with not just outages but planned outages when there's potential for fire danger. So it's obviously becoming more of an issue. But we wanted to have the discussion about backup generators in light of the other projects that are currently in design. And those, the two main projects are the pressure reduction and chlorination project, and then the Cedar Canyon Springs filtration plant project. So we'll be discussing those projects first and then we'll get into a little bit of the overview of the system and then discuss the backup generators. So just a quick reminder of what this project is. The State Division of Drinking Water came down on us recently saying that the city has to chlorinate all of the city's sources and We've been able to accomplish that except for what we call the North Quichapa wells that come in along Highway 56. And the reason for that is that we run very high pressure coming in from along Highway 56, coming in from Quichapa. And so this project is going to reduce the pressure which will allow us to chlorinate and also make the connection to the water conservancy district.

And as a note on that, I was with Jonathan in Colorado at a conference, and we met with people, and we said, are you sure we can't chlorinate this? And we told them how fast our pressure was. They literally laughed at us, and they said, no, you guys are crazy.

There's no way. Yeah, 350 PSI, there just wasn't a way to do it. So the infrastructure that we're looking at as part of this project is a pump station, what we call the West Pump Station. That's going to be what we're planning to put it as at the Y, and the Conservancy District has property there that they've said that we could use. We're still kind of working out, we'll have to work out some agreements on that, but in concept they've said that we could use that property. And then there would also be a chlorination system at that west pump station, and that's where it would chlorinate going into the system. Also at that location, there would be a connection. The Conservancy District has a water line that passes right through there at the Y where we'd be able to make a connection there to their system. And they have a new four million gallon tank that would basically set the pressure for that pump station. And then that pump station would pump up to a new water tank at what we call the 800 South Tank, which is located on Cross Hollow Road just across from Silver Silo. And then from there, that would pump up to the Cross Hollow Tank. So we're basically going to have two steps to get up to the Cross Hollow Tank, whereas right now the wells have to pump all the way up to cross-hull the tank directly, which is what's causing such high pressure.

So it goes from the wells all the way to the 800 South, or is there one more in the middle?

So the middle one would be the west pump station. So it goes to the west pump station first, and then to the 800 South.

Okay, and the west pump station is going to be a wet well type, or what do you call it? It's not going to be a tank, it's going to be a...

It's going to be an inline pump. It's going to be working off the pressure of the Consumers of District's new tank, that 4 million gallon tank. So that's the first pump, is the west pump station, and then it goes to the 800 south and then up to Cross Hollow tank.

Are you building a tank on 802, the 2 million gallon tank?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Well, hopefully the Conservancy District will build it.

Yeah. Well, that's ours.

But I meant, aren't we going to work with them to? Future infrastructure. Okay. They just seem to be able to get a lot better pricing on them than we do. That's all I'm getting at.

There's also a pump on that 800 South water tank. Yeah, there will be all the way up. Yeah, there will be a pump station there where that new water tank is that will pump up to the cross all the tank. So as we're as we've gotten into design, we've found that there's some key decisions that need to be made to move the design forward. And so that's why we're bringing this specifically to the city council. So one of the first things we need to discuss as part of the project, one of the first things that we need to do is we need to go in and rehabilitate the quichapa wells that feed into that transmission line going down Highway 56. And the main reason we need to do that, well, there's several reasons. One is to reduce the sand production. Those wells tend to pump sand, but hopefully can improve the flow rate, reduce the drawdown level that we're seeing in the wells, and then we're gonna perform flow tests on the wells that will help us to design the smaller pumps and motors. Because as we reduce the pressure, we're gonna be able to downsize the motors that we're running at those locations.

Jonathan, will that information help us when we want to do the backup generators? I mean, will that data say, okay, then this is really the size we need, not this size?

Yes. Okay. Right now, we've kind of made some assumptions as to what we need, but, yes, that will tell us what size backup generators we need as well.

So, Jonathan, when you're talking about the Quichipa whales, do we have to rescreen those?

No.

So don't they have the small screens on them now?

Two of them do have the smaller slot sizes, but then two of them have the bigger slot sizes.

So the two that have the small, probably not a lot of sand reduction.

Councilman, they're not hearing you online at all.

Sorry. Okay, so the ones that have the small screens, they won't need quite as much rehabilitation as the large screens, right?

That's right.

And the large screens, then you're going to take the large screens and put smaller ones in it?

We weren't planning to do that. We were just planning to go in and do the swapping, do the surge block development. We've done that in the past. It does help to reduce the sand production as we get the gravel pack to move in and consolidate. If we try to run smaller, if we try to run screening in it, we're going to have to downsize. Downsize. Yeah. And so that's where it gets difficult because then we'd have, you know, we may lose flow rate because we have to go to smaller pumps. Just wondering. So we're hoping to get the best that we can. We know that with a couple of those, we may not get down to zero sand production, but hopefully it'll get better.

Whose prices are these cost reductions and is this the engineer's estimate or is these people you've talked to?

This is the engineer's estimate. Okay. This is one, yeah, the 1.1 million for the rehabilitation is from A to S. So really what we need to decide right now is, well, we need to really move forward on this starting in November, and the reason for that is that's when we start shutting wells down for the winter. And so we need to do that rehabilitation from November to about March because that's when we have to start the wells back up. And so we don't currently have money budgeted to do this. We were planning or we were thinking of kind of rolling it into a bond as part of the larger project. But the timing of getting the bond is probably may not quite work out. And so we'd like to see if there's a way that we can at least get started on this sooner before the bonds in place. So the cost is 1.1 million. We currently have about 2 million in unassigned fund balance in the water enterprise fund. Another option would be to reallocate funds from projects that are already budgeted. Um, or we could temporarily assign funds and then backfill once we have the bonds issued. So those are just some, some options that we have to fund to fund it.

What does, have we, does, does Terry have a recommend? I know she's not here tonight, but does she have a recommendation on which one of those options we should do?

I haven't asked her. I didn't ask her that.

Paul, what are your thoughts?

So the unassigned fund balance in the Water Department of $2 million is not a lot of money in the scope of what we asked them to do in a year's time. If something went south on them, that money would not go very far. So I would be hesitant to use the unassigned fund balance

What about just temporarily?

Well, if you're going to use it, do it temporary and backfill with bond proceeds. But then you're paying interest on money that you have. My recommendation would be you have money allocated towards a project to find a well in the north. I would take the money out of that and reallocate it to rehab these wells.

That's what I was thinking.

Which one is that on this? $3,000.

$3 million. $3.3 million.

Where? Oh, right there. Culinary well.

This is a list of all the projects that are on the books currently, but yeah, it's the three points. That have been budgeted, yeah. Yeah, that are budgeted, yeah.

So if we're going to do that, and this is pretty critical, can we qualify the well people that I don't think this would just be an open bid out for everybody. I think we need to put out stuff and then we qualify two or three that will actually, would be okay if they got the job. I don't think this is something we wanna just put out as an open bid, low bidder gets it. I think we should be qualified. You can do prequalifications, yeah. Yeah, you can.

You can either do prequalifications or give it greater weight. You know, cost doesn't have to be the only thing you consider even when you get responses back.

I think we need to do something. This is really critical for our town, so I really don't want to see just an open bid.

And obviously a super detailed RFP helps that because...

Yeah, we could require qualifications to come in with the bid, and they have to meet.

Just do it beforehand, and then they're not bidding it out. Okay.

Whatever process you want to use, just pre-qualify some bidders.

I understand that this is just the first phase, and I know this is a work meeting, but do we want to make some recommendations before we go to the next one, or do you want to go through the whole presentation?

Let's hear the whole scope of it. One of the problems that I see is we don't hear the whole scope of what we're looking at. And we make decisions on a narrow issue that affect the whole picture financially.

Fair enough. Okay. So, yeah, we talked about, and I put this list in the packet so you can go through it and kind of see what all the projects are. The next item that we need to decide on is what building material to use for the pump station. So we have the two pump stations, the west pump station at the Y and then the 800 south pump station. So the two options that we're looking at are either masonry or a pre-engineered metal building. Of course, with masonry, there's a lot of advantages. Longer life, more energy, better safety and security, and a better overall life cycle cost. There are a couple of disadvantages. It is a higher capital cost to begin with, and it can be difficult to reconfigure later if you need to add on to it or change it. With a metal building, the advantage is it is a lower capital cost, and it's easier to reconfigure, but The disadvantages are it has higher energy costs, a shorter life, rust potential, less safety and security, and the life cycle cost.

I was going to say, is that $633,000 for both of them or just for one of them?

That's for both. So the additional cost would be $633,000 for both.

On either of these buildings, is there anything that has to be lifted up through this roof?

Yes, yes, we plan on having a roof hatch for those because the pumps would need to be lifted out, yes.

So in that case, it might be more advantageous possibly for the CMU, just the way that the roof's going to be designed versus what the... A metal roof and having an opening that big could cause leak problems and a few steel structures. So, okay, that's why I just wanted to know if we had a hat come through.

Yeah, we plan on having roof hatches. Let me show you a picture of, so these are a few pictures of some, these three are recent ones. So this is the golf course pump station, and you can see, it's a little bit hard to see, but these do have roof hatches where we can lift the pumps out. Excuse me, this building has roof hatches. I believe this building also has a roof hatch. This is the 200 North pump station there by the tag and go. Tag and go, yeah. So these are both masonry block buildings. And we tried to construct them out of, you know, these have split-face masonry to make them look nice. This is the pump station by Maverick at the South Interchange, the Square Mountain Pump Station. This is also masonry. But this one was built in 1994 and it's still in very good shape, you know, with the masonry. Is that not a one? This is a...

Did you go over to SUU archives to find that photo? Was it a hand sketch?

I had to dig through our closet and I found a picture of it. Wow. This picture was taken in 1996. This was even before I started, so that was a very long time ago. But it was built in 1967. So you can see the metal buildings, they just don't seem to last as well as the masonry. Oh, yeah.

Well, with the conditions we have, these are not real big buildings. Right. And so I think, to me, a CMU building would be better suited for this size.

That's the closest Jonathan gets to trying to persuade you to do it a certain way.

I mean, one thing, I don't know if I speak for everybody here, but I speak for myself. I mean, one thing we've kind of talked about all along in this project is if we're going to do it, let's try to do it as right as we can from the get-go. We're going to have to bond for it anyway, so let's do it as, you know, so.

I've been hearing, I won't say who says it, but we barely have enough money to do it once, but we always seem to have enough money to do it twice. So let's just fix it. Let's just fix it the first time. And one thing I would like to add is, You know, I've been in the excavation business a long time, and I really despise going into a hole or something that is so tight that you can't work. So if we're going to design these, let's make sure we have room for the people to work around them that they actually have good access. There's nothing worse than trying to stand on your head and take a bolt out. Give them room.

That's particularly true, I think, in the Cross Hollow one because there will be development all through that Cross Hollow area eventually, and we've got to make sure we can get in and out of that building, whatever it is.

And work around it. Give them room. Don't make it so tight that they have to hold their breath to get around the corners.

All right, so you kind of go where we're feeling. Let's go to the next one.

This is just, yeah, they also hold up better when cars run into it. When a car runs into it, it definitely holds up better. Geez.

Is that a Ford? Did that just happen?

Is that a Ford? If they were a Ford, there'd be no building.

So anyway.

So at the 800 south pump station, the flow rate that is going to be designed for current conditions is 6,800 gallons per minute. And that's going to pump directly from the 800 south tank up to Cross Hollow tank. There's also a planned future tank to the south, kind of Iron Horse development. And that tank's going to be at the same elevation as the south tank. But in the future, we're planning to add pumps that would be able to pump 3,000 gallons per minute to that other future tank.

So we, I think Paul was there. I don't know if Steve was there or not. We went on this tour down to the Water Conservancy District. And when you say here to upsize or build accordingly, they have done a phenomenal job and they've got excess that's ready to go The pumps aren't there, but everything, piping, building, layout is all done. And I thought they'd done a beautiful job and way cheaper to do it like that.

Yeah. Yeah. So you just want to make the building a little bit bigger so that we can get the three additional pumps down the line.

Well, you would probably add, there would probably be some plumbing in there too. Yeah, sure. You'd pre-plumb it and then cap it for where you know another set of pumps is going to go.

Electrical areas, I mean, I was pretty impressed how they had planned ahead. It's not there yet, but everything is ready to just put it in.

Yeah, so we'll just be able to drop the pumps in later. Yeah, that was great.

I think we did something similar to the wastewater treatment plant. Yes. When we originally built that. Designed for expansion. Yeah.

So that's another question to consider. And these would be the cost?

The answer to that would be yes.

OK. Thank you. That's good.

The next thing we've been discussing is the type of chlorination at the West Pump Station. We've looked at two different options. One is liquid chlorine, and the other one is what we call on-site generation. We're kind of leaning toward, as staff, we're leaning towards liquid chlorine because it's a much lower capital cost. It uses storage tanks. It's very easy to maintain. There are some disadvantages to it. We have to have the chlorine deliveries come quite often, and then it does have a higher life cycle cost over the whole life of it, but that's partly because of the liquid we have to order. The outside generation has a much higher capital cost, and it has a much higher energy cost.

When you say much higher capital cost, are you talking?

I think it's about $600,000. More? Yeah.

Oh.

Yeah. That's pretty significant.

Is that the new benchmark that we get to use in conversations with you and use the word must or much? Yes. $600,000.

It's kind of like cowboy money. But how soon? I mean, but when it has the overall, the other one's cheaper. So, I mean, when's the break even? I said it was about 17 years. 17 years?

17 years it would break even.

So about the time you replace it?

Yeah, exactly. That's one concern with this is there's so many moving parts with it. In 17, 20 years, it could be.

On the on-site one, you mean, if you make your own? Chlorine is going to eat it up no matter what you put in. The second one, is it like pellets? It's salt. It's salt. I've chlorinated a lot of lines. I have regular chlorine pellets.

Whenever you talk, lean forward.

Regular chlorine powder, if you just put it in the water, it will not dissolve very well unless it is agitated. So unless it's going to have something that's going to take the pellets agitated enough that it breaks down, I'd rather go the liquid to work better.

Does one of them make the water taste less bad? Because it's already affecting my daily intake of water.

Yeah, I know I have that at my house too. Unfortunately, we have to suffer through a little bit of chlorine.

And either one, if we get the state to back off their requirement to chlorinate, does it change the system in any way? Can we just stop using it and we're okay?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

So these chlorination systems, is either one of them one, or both of them ones, that if we no longer have to chlorinate so we can just stop doing it, water still flows through? Which one's easier to turn off? Is there one easier to turn off than the other?

Probably liquid, because it just... You just dump it in. We just don't get deliveries anymore, you know. and we'd be able to just remove the tanks.

Okay. Jonathan, Matt, can we just get a head nod? The liquid one is what you prefer?

Okay.

You said staff. I wasn't sure if that was just engineering side. He snuck in about half an hour ago. Yeah, staff would prefer, yeah, in discussions with the water department. Okay, next one. Okay, so this is, so I would like to discuss a little bit about the backup generators, and this is just for this specific project. And so these generators will be installed as part of the project. So to go full redundancy current conditions, and when I say current conditions, I mean what we need right now. There is, as we talked about, there is going to be some upsizing of the pump stations for future. So 5 million and then 5.5 for the future conditions. And that is one thing I wanted to talk about. It's just amazing. They have said if they have to design for those, there would be a change order on the design.

Is that just for the generators?

Yes, that would be for the generators of both. And they want how much? $78,000.

So when they say cost estimate, that $5 million, how many generators is that including?

So it'd be six generators. That would be four generators of the four wells.

We just met with Wheeler the other day. We could have this thing, my understanding, we could have this thing designed, built, and done for what, 450,000? A generator. So I think we need to do a little more talking on this. I'm not going to pay some engineer $78,000 to design a system. Tony Barney can design this and work and do it in his bid. This is ridiculous. And we can get them for about $500,000 or less. Electronic parts, the generator, installed, fuel tank, ready to go.

Who's the engineer that gave us that? This is crazy. This is A2S.

So without getting swept up into the cost aspect, the big decision we need today is Do you want to do a fully redundant system so there's backup generators on every single well and every single pump, or do you want to do a strategic system so if there's a power safety shutoff, we have strategically placed backup generators on specific wells and specific pumps so that we can keep water flowing into our tanks, get through the power shutoff, recognizing that it's going to be a temporary shutoff. If there is a power shutoff that lasts months, we're in a whole world of hurt and a whole world of other ways besides this. If you go with the strategic system, the overall cost is going to be less, whether it's designed by outside engineers or Mr. Barney or whomever. That's the main part of the discussion that I think we want to have.

Also recognizing

This isn't the only opportunity we're ever going to have to buy backup generators. Right. If it's a priority for us, we adopt a budget every single year. And if it's a priority for us, we can put money in budgets for backup generator systems.

And we can always add them later, right?

As we move forward.

Well, they're about a year out. The last one we heard was 55 weeks out. Could I ask Matt, I think, to?

Yeah.

So Matt's familiar with the system a whole lot more than anybody else. Can you kind of talk through that, what Mr. Bittman was saying? Where do we really need to be that's effective, efficient, and affordable?

Well, go back 50 years.

Matt Baker, Water Department. I just want to read a statement that me and my guys put together. The Cedar Water Division recommends installing permanent backup generators at all existing wells, booster stations, and future booster stations. I've heard that twice. Current booster stations and future booster stations. Generators should be sized to meet both current operational requirements and anticipated future pumping demands, ensuring long-term system capacity while eliminating the need for costly generator replacements or upgrades as the city grows and additional pumping capacities required at future booster stations. A system-wide generator installation will significantly improve the reliability, redundancy, and resilience of the city's water distribution system, providing backup power at every critical facility. We'll allow water production and distribution to continue during power outages, planned public safety power shutoffs, equipment failures, and other emergency events. If a well is taken out of service for scheduled maintenance or an unexpected failure, the system can continue pumping water from other operational wells within the same pressure zone, maintaining adequate pressure flow and uninterrupted water service throughout the distribution system. The level of redundancy minimizes the risk of service interruptions, strengthens emergency preparedness, enhances fire protection capabilities, and improves the overall reliability and operational resilience of the city's water infrastructure a fully integrated backup power system also provides operational flexibility by allowing maintenance activities to be performed without compromising water service and ensures the city can continue providing safe reliable drinking water during both routine operations and emergency conditions investing in a system-wide backup power program will help safeguard critical infrastructure improve disaster resilience and ensure the city's water system remains dependable for existing customers while supporting future growth

So your answer is the cat's meow, spend all the money it takes to make sure that you don't have any stress when power goes out again.

Yes. You can sleep, I can sleep, my guys can sleep.

Yeah, Robert first.