Planning & Zoning - Regular Meeting

The meeting will come to order. There are agendas on the table outside the meeting room. This is a public meeting which public notice has been provided. Proceedings are being broadcast and recorded and can be viewed online on the city of Casper's YouTube channel. First, I'd like to read someformational statements about the meeting. Use of cell phones is not permitted and such phone shall be turned off or otherwise silenced during the planning and zoning meeting. When speaking to the planning and zoning commission, please clearly state your name and address. Keep your marks pertinent to the issue being considered by the planning and zoning commission. Do not repeat the same statements that were made by a previous speaker. Speak to the planning and zoning commission as you would like to be spoken to. Do not address applicants or other audience members directly. make her comments at the podium and directed to the chairperson and planning and zoning commission. I would like to remind everyone present that the city of Casper Planning and Zoning Commission is a volunteer body composed of members of the Casper community appointed by the Casper City Council. The commission acts as a quasi judicial panel making final decisions on some items and recommendations to the city council on others as dictated by law. The commission may only consider evidence about any case as it relates to existing law. The commission cannot make or change planning or zoning laws, regulations, policies, or guidelines. I will note that all commissioners are present tonight. The next item on the agenda is consideration of the minutes from the planning and zoning commission meeting held September 11th, 2025. And I will note that it was amended to note that Anne Rubble is the vice chair and not Gil. The chair calls for a motion to approve

the minutes of the September 11th, 2025 planning and zoning commission meeting. Uh motion by Commissioner Escu uh by Lochek. Have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? There being no further discussion, we will have a vote. Please record the vote

with all members voting I. The motion carries. Thank you.

Next hearings. Before we get started, just reminder to all this evening's applicants that it takes four affirmative votes to pass any item regardless of the number of commissioners present. Would like to postpone their case in anticipation of the possibility of more commissioners being present next month, which is unlikely. Then I would ask you to speak up when your case is announced. Case number one, the case tonight will be CUP 882205, request for conditional use permit for a bed and breakfast in an R1 residential estate zoning district located at 2250. The applicant is Lloyd El Ran Revocable Trust and Susan Elone Revocable Trust. Is the applicant or the representative present? And do you wish to proceed?

Okay, we'll call you up in just a minute. Can we please get stash report at this time?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A conditional use permit has been requested to allow a bed and breakfast in an R1 residential estate zoning district located at 2250 Newport. Section 172830 of the municipal code lists bed and breakfast as a potential conditional use under R1 zoning. The property is approximately 7 and a half acres in size and the surrounding zoning is as follows. North is park historic and R2 which is one unit residential. Both south and west are in unincorporated Nrona County and east is R2 one unit residential and also some incorporated land uninccorporated land. The proposed Ben Breakfast would have up to 10 employees and occupants, and it's estimated that there are 75 off- streetet parking spaces available, all located within the fenced property. The minimum off- streetet parking requirement for bed and breakfast is one parking space per sleeping room, and the applicants are planning on having three to four guest rooms. The municipal code allows up to 64 square feet of signage for uses that are granted a conditional use permit. At present, the applicants do not plan on having any signage. If the commission approves a conditional use permit, the applicants will have a maximum of one year to exercise the permit and once exercised, the permit runs with the land indefinitely. If the conditional use permit is not exercised within a year, it becomes void automatically. Staff did a search and is not aware of any other uh similar conditional use permits in the surrounding area. I have, as the staff report um notes, I've included a one letter of support. also included uh one anonymous submitt of five pictures of the surrounding streets. Um we have no recommended conditions. However, if uh the planning commission uh decides to impose recommended conditions, that is permitted. And I have seven exhibits

entered the record. A is the application for a conditional use permit. B public no to property owners within 300 ft. C legal notice sent to the Star Tribune. E, photo of the public notice signed on the property. E, member of the chairperson, members of the planning and zoning commission. F, public comment from 2231 Miracle Drive. And G, the five pictures submitted by an anonymous citizen. And that concludes my report. I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Thank you for the report and the exhibits are noted. Does anyone on the commission have any qu questions for staff about the report? Yes. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Uh the do are we know if the pictures taken of the vehicles? Is that within the fenced area or is that on the public street? Looks like as far as I can tell, it's the surrounding streets. It looks adjacent to the park. Okay. That's outside the fenced area.

So So thank you. Anybody else? Next, I would ask the applicant to come forward to the microphone, state your name and address for the record, and explain your application to the commission. There you are. Okay. Good evening, uh, chairman and planning and zoning commissioners. My name is Alicia Chiron. My address is 6893 Mary Hester Road here in Casper, Wyoming. And with me today, I have um my in-laws that I am representing, Sunonny Ran and Susan Ran, who are the owners of 2250 Newport Road. This evening, we're requesting your favorable approval for a conditional use permit to operate an elite bed and breakfast in an R1 zoning district. As you know, the McMurray mansion was originally built in 2007 by Mickey and Susie McMurray. Mickey and Susie were longtime Casper community members and philanthropists of Natrona County and across Wyoming. I feel as though everyone in this community have been touched by the many gifts of Mickey and Susie. The home was built to boast Wyoming and support the community. It was a home that was built to bring the community in. Sunny and Susan Ran purchased the home in 2021, which we now call the Ran home. After several years, and knowing the home is a staple in the Casper community, we as a family have thought that it would be great to create an elite bed and breakfast to host locals as well as travelers to Casper, including the recruitment of physicians, new corporations to the community, corporate retreats, and more. We will always have a host on site when guests are staying in the home. The most guests we will host in the home overnight at one time

would be 8 to 10 guests in three to four rooms. It is required as a bed and breakfast to have a minimum of one off streets per sleeping room. And with the many acres surrounding the property, we have plenty of parking to accommodate this requirement. We will work very hard to keep all visitors of the home parked inside the fence and gate. I would like to address the pictures that were sent in anonymously by a neighbor regarding an event that we recently held at the home. On October 2nd, we hosted Advanced Casper, which was a meeting that included city council members, county commissioners, city officials, and top business leaders. And that was from 7:00 a.m. to 8:30 a.m. There were about 15 cars parked along the park side of the street outside of the gate, which is public parking. I recognized that and I apologized to the concerned neighbor that sent in these pictures and told her that we had more attendees than what we had planned on. The property does have a total of 17 acres that cars could be parked on, 7 and 1/2 acres within the city limits, and about 10 acres within the county. I simply want to bring to attention this is not a party at the house. It was very much an intentional meeting that benefits our our community that we hosted. Along with that, we have hosted small events benefiting nonprofits, events for the governor and our own family functions which have upwards of 30 people in attendance. These events are not every week or even every month. Again, we will be very mindful about having all visitors park within the fence and the gate moving forward. Again, with the information submitted, we are requesting your favorable vote for a conditional use permit for the Ron Home to be an elite bed and breakfast, which will continue to be a home that impacts our community and visitors to Casper. And I stand for any questions.

Thank you, M. Any uh questions? you talked about events and you know as your home you can of course have guests and parties and all of that. Um, but I believe the city if you're going to um do events for the public or sell your services your sell your wares as an event place, you also have to have a conditional use permit um to have events. Yeah, we we had met with the fire department and the city and the health department and right now we're going through a life safety plan to determine the occupancy of the event space, the banquet space in the basement. And so we have hired an architect to complete that life safety plan um in hopes that if we have to sprinkle the house, we absolutely will not do that because we don't want to change the beautiful architecture of the home. But we first have to do the life safety plan with Heiden Bond Architects and get that to the fire department prior to moving forward. Um question then. So is your intent to make it into an event venue because the the article in Oil City News indicated that you said this is a new event venue. So are you intending to use the space that Mick and Susie used to have private functions to be a public rental space?

We I think eventually would like to get there. Um, our goal right now is just to get the conditional use permit for the elite bed and breakfast because we would like to do corporate retreats there where people can stay and have meetings, but at the same time, that space has been utilized for events of 30 to 40 people plus. Our goal is to not have more than 50 people in the home at one time. But again, in order to do that, we have to make sure that we pass all the fire and safety before we even think about coming forward with a multi-use permit because again, if it's going to require us to sprinkle the house to have 30 people in it, we're not going to do it.

Are you part of any of the subdivisions in that neighborhood? Because I know Meadow Winds and Centennial Hills have prohibitions against bed and breakfast. I don't I think I'm my own entity. I don't have an HOA. Okay. So, you're not part of an association surrounding? I am not. Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.

Now is the time when we ask members of the audience to come forward and either support the case. Please remember to state your name and address clearly into the microphone for the record. Anyone wishing to speak in support of or opposition to the case, please come forward now. Hello, my name is Marjgerie Claire and I live at 4931 Dexter. I am the person that sent the planning commission the anonymous pictures, but I did notify them that I was sending them. My reason for sending the pictures when I first got the letter about the bed and breakfast, I wanted to know what that entailed. So, I called the planning commission to ask them, you know, what it entailed. And in our conversation, I said that I lived in that area for 18 years. We see the mansion and the planning planner asked me uh if how about how many cars could they park in the area? And I said, "Well, I'm sure they could park at least 20. you know, I don't stand at my window and count them, you know, but you do walk by and you see it. So that morning I was walking, you know, in the area. And so I thought, well, I'd send pictures to show how many cars they could park in there. It wasn't to be cranky or anything like that. I was just trying to give them information of what could, you know, what they could park there. I have talked to.

Yes, I did call them and ask them what their purpose and I did ask them if they were planning on venues like weddings or big barbecues or parties or things like that because I was curious. just because, you know, one or two parties or something would be fine, but you're not looking forward to going out to look at the mountain and sit on your patio or deck and listen to a big party going on three or four times a month. So, and she did tell me that she, you know, there would be someone there. And so, I did ask the questions. I'm not against it. I was just asking qu questions and I did send the pictures because I was trying to show how many cars could be parked there. So, I'm the anonymous person,

but I'm not anonymous. I'm not I'm not an anominous or I'm not like that and I did visit with them. So, I wanted to make that clear. That's why I came to the meeting. Any any questions, Miss Claire? Thank you. Okay, Mr. Rome, would you like a rebuttal? Um,

not a rebuttal. I just wanted to let Mark we me cars have plenty of concrete the gas house and to the main house that we can handle at least 50 cars with no problem. And I sent out a letter to my other three neighbors that that's been addressed and that will not happen again. Okay. Thank you. And the other thing is a lot of those cars that park there a lot is they're there for families or their for the busy there which is good. Sure. So that's all I had. Anybody else wishing to speak in support or opposition to the case?

See nobody else wishing to speak on this case. The chair hereby closes the public comment portion of the public hearing and calls for a motion to approve. Approve with conditions, deny, table or postpone to a date certain. Discussion will occur after there's a motion and a second. And I would note that to make a motion to approve there is some language as well as if you want to make a motion to deny. I note that the planning and zoning commission has considered all the relevant factors of this including the staff report. Additional use is consistent with the spirit purpose of the intent of this title not substantially impair the appropriate use of the neighboring property and it will serve the public need convenience and well for the conditional use to be with adjacent land uses the areas of it location on this basis I make with

okay we have a motion to approve Move by Commissioner. We have a second. Second by Commissioner Escu. Have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? just need to ask for we're only considering the bed and breakfast portion of this discussion, but if they're going for the business venue, rental venue, does that come back to us or does that go to another commission?

Mr. Chairman, that's a good question and it it's somewhat of a gray area. um what does a bread and be bed and breakfast entail and and does that include meeting space typically and for how many people and um I would welcome the planning commission's suggestions on how to deal with that. I think in my opinion I would um say that a commercial event venue is probably different than a normal bed and breakfast and would require either an updated conditional use permit or or a new conditional use permit. Um, and I'm happy to listen to my legal counsel counsel as well. So,

Mr. Chairman and Commission, I agree with that assessment. Bed and breakfast versus an event venue seems to be a very different thing and um different factors would come. Section 17, 12, 220 G, and H depending on traffic circulation and the other factors that are mentioned in your staff report. So, I would concur that an event venue would require a second conditional use permit for that. Um, but the bed and breakfast is the one that's before you tonight.

Okay. Any further questions? Any further discussion? Um, so are we going to make that any kind of commercial anything commercial other than a bed and breakfast have a come back for another? I think that's only implied by the fact that all we're doing right now is approving a bed and breakfast. A lot of times it goes straight to the council. Correct.

Mr. Chairman, under 171220 I, the commission is allowed to impose reasonable conditions or modified or modifications um based on the factors that are listed in your report like traffic and streets and such. I think that um that list is not exclusive. It says that it's not. So, you certainly could amend the motion to include a condition that any type of venue um driven occupancy or use would require a second conditional permit, conditional use permit.

Currently on the table, we got a motion to approve the breakfast. Would you like to amend your motion to explicitly? Mr. Chairman, I would like to amend it to have the condition that if an event space is going to be solicited for the residents in bed and breakfast that it come before the planning commission for an additional conditional use permit. Commissioner ask you, do you support that amendment?

Okay. Any further discussion? I just go back to the fact that when they were the testimony was being given, they said already that the intent of it was to have a bed and breakfast that was also a corporate retreat. So they're already implying that it's going to be used as a business. And so I don't think we're in a position to approve a business in a neighborhood. We have just placed on that use permit that would have to come back to this commission. Mr. Chairman, you need to vote on that amendment. You have the amendment first and second. Now you get to vote on whether the amendment passes. Can we please vote on the amendment to see if that passes? Please cast your vote.

Please record the vote. All members voting on the motion carries. You're welcome. Mr. Chairman, I think I think the question is the scale um if it's four guest rooms with two people per room and they're meeting in the morning, you know, over breakfast or if it's a um an outside event that's bringing people that are not staying there. Um that's that's the difference the two different things. So, I'm not sure how to uh address the other

council. Mr. Chairman, I would suggest that by the applicant's own testimony, they said they intended to do eight to 10 guests with three to four rooms. So that could be the way that you tie the condition to say that if the bed and breakfast is being used for more than 8 to 10 guests in three to four rooms, they need to come back for second conditional venue. And to handle that, you would just amend your motion again. with it also being a home and they're just letting the community use that space without a fee. How does that work as well?

That's where the gray area comes in. Any homeowner has the right to have people over that they're just having as guests, not something that's rented for money like the definition of the bed and breakfast. Thank you. Does anyone want to make an amendment to the original motion to swiftly state no more than 3 to four bedrooms or 8 to 10 guests? Anything more than that would be considered a um promotional business.

Mr. Commissioner, I don't understand why we'd have to make a motion to do that since it's already implicit in the ordinance that that's what you can do. That's them boundaries are already there. Correct. Those boundaries are not in the ordinance under bed and breakfast. Bed and breakfast definition silent about the numbers unless you use the second or third definition of bed and breakfast that's in the ordinance. I know it's it's not explicit. And by their own testimony, they just said they've they want to do corporate retreats at the site, which would go beyond just bed and breakfast. Correct.

Which they said that they would they're doing a life safety plan to see if it meets the standards for the health department and the fire department to do so. And then they were going to reapply. The health standards and safety standards are different from the conditional use permit, the ability to use it. once they have a condition, they'll meet those standards of the fire and health and safety, but it's a different issue entirely. So, that would be addressed later.

Mr. Chairman, maybe we could ask the applicants to clarify what corporate retreat means because if they're saying corporate retreat is the three or four bedrooms that are people are staying overnight and meeting in the morning or something or what whether it's a corporate retreat means people that are not staying there coming in for a meeting or a mixture of the two or some people that are staying there but other people coming to meet them and then that becomes an event venue not a bed and breakfast. Yes, I'd suggest clarifi clarifying everything. Mr. Ran or Mr. could you uh help um answer some of these questions for us here? You let her answer.

Yeah, thank you for letting us clarify, chairman, and and commissioners. Again, our goal is to let them stay in the house and util space to have meetings. We as a corporate retreat, that's essentially what you do. We wouldn't be bringing in any additional guests. And again, we're going through the health department, the fire department to see if we have to sprinkle the house, we will not do that. We won't have any events. And you're right, Mr. Escu, in that we um have only hosted events charitably. We've let people utilize that house and an expense to us. We haven't not charged anyone to use the house and we still would. Um, and so I agree that that's a gray area, but you should be allowed to let people in your home without charging them and without a conditional use permit. But I think the overall goal was I'll give you an example. The health department contacted me today, Department of Health with the state to see if they could have a leadership retreat there. They would rent the three rooms at the house and the Airbnb guest house and have a small meeting there. And I think that should be very doable when they're renting the rooms. They should be allowed to have a meeting there as well.

And we're not charging for the facility. We're charging for Thank you. Thanks. And any any questions? Okay, thank you very much. Thank you guys.

Any further discussion? I guess my thing is is we're approving the bed and breakfast, but I want to make make sure that before it gets turned utility of any sort that the public gets a chance to because it's only been sent out for a bed and breakfast and the public has the right before it turn before it turns into any kind of commercial facility to come back. And

Mr. Chairman, I I think the motion that's on the table address addresses that with um saying that prior to it being a commercial event space, they would have to get a second conditional use permit. I agree. Great. Any further discussion? Okay, please cast your vote. Please record your vote.

With one vote with one member voting nay and all the others voting I. The motion carries.

Your application for conditional use permit has been uh approved. City staff will be in touch with you shortly to complete the paperwork. Thank you. There are no special issues tonight. So, we'll move on to the next item on the agenda. The chair calls for any communication from the commission. I will note that I am taking a temporary job with the city of Casper for the next three months and as such I will not be attending planning and zoning probably through the January meeting. We'll be back for the February meeting. I think Miss Rubble will be here other than November.

Other than November. But according to Craig, there are no cases currently on the agenda for next month. So that may be an off month regardless. Will you be able to come to the Christmas party? I I would hate to miss that. Yes. Well, I I like Never mind. I do like the honey. I was I was just gonna say you're going to miss out on honey if you don't come. No, I I didn't during an open meeting. Any communication from the city planner?

And their council leazison is not here. How about from the oid liazison? Hanburg. Is that what it is?

Any communication from anybody else present? The final item on the agenda this evening is adjournment. So

I'm not quite done yet. The next meeting of the planning and zoning commission is currently scheduled for Thursday, November 13th, 2025 at 6 pm. I've got a motion to adjourn by Commissioner Rubble. Second by Commissioner Hutchinson. Any discussion? Please record your vote. Please cast your vote. Please record the vote. With all members voting I the motion carries. Meeting adjourned at 6:30 p.m. Thank you all.