City Council - Regular Meeting

Um I've laid it out to have uh discussion on what that looks like. So this is construction. This is kind of the timeline that we've come up with on when these projects will be um can can start and completed along with the the bond issuances. So option A, we have a tax rate of approximately $1.15 for the life of the bond. Uh and that would so again the second quarter construction begins on Ed Hooper project and complete 2028 second quarter construction. um with the Ed Hooper project. Um that won't change regardless of the discussion. Um and if we go if if option A is chosen, the aquatics fourth quarter construction begins and then first quarter construction complete in 2029. So we have a 27 and 29 for the aquatics project. Um the difference being the ability to complete the um the easier project first. Um any questions on that? So, mayor and council, just just to clarify, this option A is doing them both at the same time.

Got it. Yeah, I should have Thank you, Stephen. I should have mentioned that earlier. I did indicate one will take longer, but they would start still at the same time.

Option B. So this is a a gradual increase from approximately 74 cents to the highest at $168 and then a gradual decrease until 2048. Uh again the Ed Hooper project you can see will have the same timeline of a 27 and 28. Uh if if option B is chosen chosen then uh first quarter construction would begin on the aquatic project. Um, and then 2030 would be the the uh second quarter construction complete on the project, aquatic project, hopefully to be ready for the summer season. Um, and like I said, the last bullet point option bill would delay the aquatics project by over a year. That's just timed with the uh the bond issuances. So, just an example, a home with a property value of 250,000 would pay approximately 300 per year through 2048. Option B, a home with a value of 250 would pay approximately 420 per year at the highest point until 2048.

Questions and comments. I'm sure you have some questions and some things to discuss. Sure. Yeah, I I'll start. You mentioned that the RFQS are for designer out on the street now. Correct. Do you have two separate ones or are you looking for a a designer to do both the aquatic and that hooper together? We we we think that we we we can get both. Now, if we can find somebody that can do both. I'm not sure if there is anybody out there, but we're probably going to get um um qualifications for probably for the fields separately and then one's for the aquatic. So, you do have two kind of RFQS out there. one for Ed Hooper and one for the aquatics. If I may, we

we combined it into a single RFQ for each project separately with the understanding that we could award one designer both projects or we could award split them up and award to different designers. Okay. Um we didn't want to take a risk of having a really great specialist in aquatics that doesn't do sports fields and vice versa. Let's not limit our field. Okay. There's a possibility that we might find one firm to do both, but I don't want a chance limiting our pool of candidates that way. N and that's just for the design piece. We're going to you can split it up. Yeah, good question. Thanks for clarifying that.

That's good. Um, and then for the construction, you're going to do it the same way that I'm not sure because of the complexity of the two and the presentations of we may wind up with separate Yeah. with separate RFQS for the construction. That's what I'd expect, but wanted to make sure. Okay. Thank you. Any question? Any other questions? Sure. Man, I um so and doing a lot of work with this bond and the last bond. When did we do the the other one with the public safety and rec center? That was 2006.

Six. Yeah. Before any of us were here. But one thing I heard about the 2006 bond as this one's coming out is it took about 10 over 10 15 years for the last project to be completed. There was a lot of projects in that bond. There's like five I think five different things and we started but I think people are expecting this and I would look at Brent here but I'm sure construction costs are probably not going to go down if we keep waiting to put something on longer you know so um and I you know people voted on this it was a 53% I mean so we we won but we need to give results for everybody so everyone knows hey we're doing this you know and I'm glad to hear that it's already in process because people ask me I'm like yeah they're working on They haven't heard much, but now we're getting to the more public part of it to where people are going to be involved at some point this year. But now we're putting it out there so people know that, hey, this is moving forward. We're not just sitting on it and waiting for that. And you're going to see see activity coming pretty soon because it's our responsibility to be fiscally responsible as well as show people that, hey, this is our community. We're proud. You guys want this. We want this. So, let's make it good and let's get it going. And I understand Danny obviously building a field is a lot simpler than building a pool and aquatic center. So as long as we get it going first, but I think simultane you know I mean I understand that's going to be done first but simultaneously getting this going and plus as our city grows more

that piece of the pie is going to get smaller for for the households. You know we have to estimate all this just on our current information. So hopefully uh you know that'll and it'll be leveled out in this first option that you presented. So that'll be easier for people to budget instead of having to change it every year and all that sort of stuff. It would change.

Mayor Fitz Gibbons, if I might just build on Council Member Herman's comments there because I think it's this is really the intent of this study session this evening. and and 2006 is a great example of uh really what I would consider to be our last general obligation bond that we got voter approval on that had multiple projects in it. But it was clear to staff at least when we were out on making presentations on the factual informations for the general obligation bond. It was clear to me that a number of our residents uh had had not necessarily that they did not know what the plan was in 2006 because that program and the scope of the projects were intentionally uh developed to basically be sequenced that you we would do what we would do one we would issue the debt on that then we would go to the next project and start it and issue the debt on that next project. And we did that starting with the public safety facility, with the with the um the Vista Grande Library, with the Lancola Center, with the golf course improvements, and ultimately it culminated with the rec center. And and there were there were a few different discussions that took place when we came up to the rec center on that sequence. But essentially, we had that entire program was built to take one project at a time. We have multiple projects here and and really what we're what we're looking for is not necessarily a decision tonight, but a direction on which on which direction the mayor and council would like us to proceed so that we can continue putting the planning components together for this uh 2025 general obligation bond uh process. And so, but but Councilman Herman is right that it there's different expectations in the community today. Do we ultimately do it all at once? Do we do we run them concurrently or do we run them systematically if you will one following the next? That will have an impact on

tax rates. That's why we asked Mr. Ggo to add that information to the slides this evening. Okay. Thank you, Larry. Is there any any other questions? Just comment just it's my opinion that we need to run them concurrently with option A. Um just let's let's get these things done. Nothing's getting cheaper. Um it's it's going to get more expensive as we get down the road. let let's just go ahead and and run them concurrently is my opinion.

And I agree with with uh council member um Dugan as well as council member Herman that we do both at the same time and let the people know that we we mean what we say and we say what we mean and they'll see us working on both ends and that we'll get it done. it cost a little bit more or whatever it may be, but at the same token, we're getting it done instead of delaying or dragging it on for year after year after year, you know. And then I I know by but um uh Daniel, you said that basically 26 is the groundwork.

26 is where we preparing to get things done uh in regards to where things going to be laid out. And then 27, I think a 27 is where we begin to design. I believe that was on that that slide, right? Uh yes. So um well we plan on hopefully getting construction started in 27 as well. Yes. So um that's that's what what our plan is at this point. So um design will happen throughout this next 26. Yeah. Once we get designers on board, we'll be working them hopefully to have that completed by first quarter of 27. Right. And having shovels in the ground is our is our our uh that's what we're we're looking at as of now. Can you put that slide back up, Danny? optioning. Oops.

Just so we There we go. Okay, there it is.

Yeah. Again, um Ed Hooper project wouldn't change regardless of what what because that would start first anyway. If we're not going to do them at the same time, we would start Ed Hooper first um and then wait for the aquatics. But if we want to do them at the same time, this is about the timeline um where um we would be able to finish the different public engagement, a lot of the different things. Do you know what's what's the pool look like? What are public what are the amenities we're going to have? What kind of diving well are we going to have? We're going to have one meter pool or one meter boards, two one meter boards, how big is the the um the play area, zero depth area. Those are all discussions that need to happen and and and not to mention the where it's going to be next to the the uh the rec center because there's a lot of ways people are going to come in and use the pool both for public swim. So that's a big discussion we're going to have is when we have public swim, we're going to have, you know, a few hundred people in the pool and the whole pool is open. So we'll have a a recreation pool, we'll have the the the main pool um in different areas. How is that going to work at that time? But then when you talk about the different times when we're just going to when kids are in school and we have regular swim time in the mornings where we have water X classes, how are those people going to come in? Are we using the same entrance, different entrances? How do we do that? um are are all going to be part of the design process that you'll see in these public meetings on on how that's going to work. So, that's those are a few examples of why why it does take a little bit longer on on how that's going to work with the current rec center um parking and everything else. So,

okay.

And I think we have to remember how we got to this point, you know, to go out for the bond and the demand that's there with a growing community. um our um you know athletic teams and and all all the you know different people using these amenities are are strained. I mean there's there there's definitely a need. So that's why we went out for the bond. And so I agree with all with all of you guys, you know, as far as option A. I think when when the bond was out and we were, you know, pro promoting this and um discussing it, we we didn't talk about a phased approach. Um, when we were talking to people, when I was talking to people about the bond, I would, you know, talk about a $67 million bond for these two projects. So, um, yeah, we know the tax rate's going to go up. You know, we we've discussed that with people and and so that, you know, I think that's what we, you know, talk to people about. So, I I'm also good with option A and um and and just continuing to keep the community engaged. I I'm happy to see all the engagement, you know, that you have in all the different phases. It doesn't hurt even if it's something as simple as parking lot and dugouts and you know play areas. I mean it's still good to get get the input. Um and we have to you know Matt talked about you know we the the bond passed you know 53% and so we have to convince the the other 47% of people why we're doing this and how it's going to benefit them. Um, and so I think it's going to be really really critical through all these stages to communicate, keep the, you know, public informed and engage as many people as we can. So I'm I'm also um good for option A.

And I'd like to also mention, you mentioned how how many teams are using our fields right now. And just to emphasize that, you know, as you all know, we implemented a fill allocation guide. So, um, instead of just people coming in randomly and filling things, we had to go to a place where you had to turn in your your request at a certain time and then we had to divvy it up. And unfortunately, a lot of people couldn't. We tried to make it as fair as possible, but there's fields that if you want twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 6, you may not have gotten that all the time because we're so packed. So, we did that to be fair to the community. Um, so we try to um se spread everything out as best we can. Um that's we're we're at that point and obviously we're still going to be there for a couple years but we're doing the best we can to accommodate all the teams that are participating as we're growing we're seeing just more and more um requests for sports field. So this will this will come at a it's

can't come fast can't come fast. So being you know being part of the operator for these you know I wish they could be built next week as well. I really do. So, you know, we're we're I'm glad it's do coming first anyway, but it couldn't come soon enough for the operations of our department. So, right. And it's also going to give us time to to manage through the operations piece because that's going to be huge with in upcoming budgets. Yes,

madame mayor, if I can just address that. Uh and and obviously the council heard me say this during the budget retreat, but um I think it's important to to make note of this as well that we anticipate the staff anticipates working on a financial an operational analysis for the council to consider because there will be operational additional operational costs that will come. Obviously, general obligation bonds cannot be used to fund that. Uh we'll have to find our our revenue streams, other revenue streams to achieve that. But having the council aware of what those operational costs are in advance is going to be important as well. Okay. When when do you think you'll have that, Larry?

Mayor, I I anticipate that we will have it the first half of the new fiscal year. So, sometime December, January time frame. Um, we have not we've just only had preliminary discussions of that, but but I think that the teams can work uh very quickly to put something together and and evaluate that. Right. Okay. Thank you. My goodness. Um Daniel, I got a quick question for you. Um how confident are you on this timeline? Is this a fairly conservative timeline? I know construction cont I mean construction always tends to drag out. Is this a conservative timeline or is are you pretty confident on this or is this like one of those things where you're just throwing it out there? It's like we should be here. This is where we're seeing it right today. We should be here on where

Okay, Ted, I got to get Ted's opinion on this one. with the utility. I mean, we got to look at that these construction always had a tendency to drag on. So, it's just like uh I mean, how conservative is this? So, you know, just just understand that all of this is an early proposed schedule until we get the the designer and the contractor on board and look at what's realistic. This is our best feel for an aggressive schedule. Yeah. For an aggressive schedule.

The I'm sitting here been pondering the public outreach. What does that actually look like? Um, it can take all sorts of different methods from from comment online to public meetings. And I like dot polling public meetings, not unlike what we did on on Florence Street. That was extremely useful and left people satisfied that they had some input. So, I kind of anticipate what we're going to have is a dream big, what do you want,

right? question session that we're going to pare it down to what we can do and then start presenting details that they can pick one thing versus another thing rather than just leaving it as an open free-for-all through the whole conversation. Of course, okay, good question though because we get asked that all the time.

Yeah. And I guess the important question is we're we're moving forward regardless of how we're going to do this and we're pushing forward and will we run into some issues with utilities possibly. Um, for example, I know Morirana had some issues with the dive well. Um, when they built theirs last they they completed last year and they it delayed the project a little bit and they had to spend a little extra money because the soil where they were digging a little deeper, they had some issues. So, they had to rectify those situations. So, those things might come up with us as well. Um, you know, we don't know what's 20 feet down below certain areas um in the aquatic center. So, it goes a little deeper. So, there's a lot of those different things that may may come up that we just don't know. Um, we're not aware of at this point. So, and they were fully into construction when that happened when they started digging and found out there were some issues that that they had to uh address. So, there was things like that that may come up um that we are just not aware of at this point.

Do you know how long it took them? I mean, I don't think it was a major delay. I think I don't think it was a major delay. It was just some of the cost. They had to bring in a different team to to rectify the soil issues. Um, so it wasn't a mage delay, but there was a definite cost to it um to to make sure it was could support. Um, do you know what the time was for them to was it a two-year project?

Yeah, it was it was Yeah, it was definitely Theirs was aquatics and the rec center um together um but yeah, it was just over two years for them to get through their entire process. And we'll be visiting different sites during the design process. a team of us will be be going to uh Morirana just recently. Um Queen Creek I some of the cities that I showed you in the study session. Um Queen Creek just finished theirs last year. Um Surprise just finished theirs this last year. Um one's being built in um in um what is the south southwest southwest Phoenix area? Talison. Okay.

I just recall what that is. Um so there's a variety of places that we plan to visit. Talk to the operators. you know, what what what was the benefit of the designer, what you know, the different contractors, the pluses, the minuses, really have conversations with them um on how things worked out for their their community is is are important pieces that we'll be doing is on on our end. Just best practices and what they learned through the process and everything. Yes. The the lessons learned are going to be very important. Absolutely.

Big focus is going to be on operation and maintenance. Yes. And When we started the rec center and there was an idea that we might have an aquatic center in it to begin with, I went and toured a number of aquatic center facilities and talked about what went well, what went poorly. Um, pump well designed. You you break a valve, you you fill your pump pit with the water, you just lost all your pumps. You just lost your whole aquatic center. So there will be fail safes designed into it. I don't want to build to the best practices. I want to build better than what they've done so far. Yep. Good.

And that's where Ted's expertise will come in place. Where I'm coming from, I've operated a lot of different aquatic center and I really want to push the operational piece on what's better for the city, better for our residents based on what they wanted. Also cost savings. When you have different things, how many lifeguards does it take to station? Where do you open? Where do you put the staff? Those are big things that a lot of times people don't think about. What kind of changing rooms do we have? Where are they located? What kind of what kind of locker rooms do we have? Are they divided during public or when we don't have regular public swim or we just have do we share locker rooms in certain areas? You know, those are all questions that are they're going to be coming up um and making sure operationally we're able to do it. Are we put in the changing rooms where staff can't see them? It may seem simple to some people like yeah we just put them over here but if staff can't see them those are all things that are going to take take time when we go into the design factor and and work through some of those issues on what we can do for the best for for both the rec center the rec center users as well as the aquatics users incoming outgoing that type of thing. So,

right. Okay. Questions? I remember when we built our rec center, we went and toured four or five different I don't know, quite a few different ones. I'm sure you'll do that to help with those best practices. And sounds like you know what's going on in your world in Arizona. So, that's good. A lot of them have been happening. So, you can find out what what works and what doesn't. I've already reached out to a number of them. Uh both Morirana and Surprise um and Chase's building. They've already reached out to tour those facilities. So, um they're just waiting for us to send them dates on on coming over. So, and they're more than happy to to to share um their facilities and talk about their facilities.

Good. Okay. Any other questions, comments? I guess not. So, I believe we gave direction or how everyone feels. Okay. Madame Mayor, I I'm not sure if Councilman Huddleston has any questions at this point. He was he's been on mute. So, I'll I'll pause, but I do want to cover a couple of topics that I think are important embedded within this related to the tax rate. Okay. Councilman Hudson, do you have any questions specifically at this point? You may be on mute. Okay.

Did we lose him? the the important message that I uh I want to make to the council on on the tax rates that that we're proposing here and and really the timing element is that essentially there's a couple of key components to this. Number one is that we are still issuing the debt related to the McCartney Road project that was approved in 2022. So those get embedded into the rate. And the second component is the really the timing. If we would we would very likely be looking at four bond issuances if you would have run this sequence in phasing one project then the next. But it's highly likely that under this particular option we will end up only issuing three three issuances one each year. One in 27 128 129 to ensure that we've got the capital to to to uh fund these projects. So that's what's driving that. I just thought it would be worthwhile to mention that uh to the council. Obviously, the the general obligation bond issuances come back before council in a resolution. Um and typically the rates are established each year during our budget process. So, I thought that'd be important information, mayor.

Okay. Thank you. Okay. So, no more question. Nothing else, I don't think. Okay. So, next steps, you're going to you'll come back to us once that um that May 8th date do. Yes. So we'll we'll the May to come we'll get the qualification request for qualification will be turned in and then we'll be interviewing okay um we'll get a panel together we'll schedule that interview them and and make a decision on the best designer for for one or two um for each facility and then come back and then work with them to to get um um a proposal and then come back to council to to to um for a contract. Right. Okay. So that's how that's the next step of this process. Yeah. I'd anticipate something probably mid June.

Okay. Thank you. And then Ted is obviously continuing to work utilities things as during this entire process. Perfect. All right. Well, thank you. Yeah. Thank you guys. Thanks for being here. Thank you. Okay. Any nothing else then with the So, we'll go ahead and break. We have 25 minutes. Break until our general session. Bob, are you there?