Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

Good evening, everybody. This is the Carver Zoning Board of Appeals. We are meeting tonight on July 23, 2026. It's about 6.33 p.m. I'm sorry, what did I say? You said July. I'm looking at July on this paper. August 4, about 6.33 p.m. We are in meeting room 4 this evening. And we can all observe as we sit here that Area 58 is present and recording this meeting. We're happy to have them. As is our custom, we will attend first to administrative business and the initial item that we must consider is a review and approval of the meeting minutes from our previous meeting of July 23, 2026. I have distributed in draft the meeting minutes from that meeting of July 23, and I ask board members if they have received all of those minutes.

Yes or no? Yes.

And does anyone have any changes, amendments, or modifications they'd like to make?

No.

All right. Do I hear a motion? I move that the minutes be accepted as written.

And do I hear a second to that motion?

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Okay, so those meeting minutes are approved and now part of the official record. We have a short meeting tonight. This is a quick turnaround for us since our last meeting of July 23, because we wanted to bring this back before the board, this one case that we have on the agenda tonight. That's public hearing case number 86-4-3, the petitioner being Darren Holliman, H-O-L-L-I-M-A-N. Mr. Vice Chair, would you care to read the public hearing notice into the record?

Petition was filed seeking a special permit in accordance with sections 290-2-2.4E3. 290-5-2.2 , 290-5-3.1, and 290-5-3.3 of the Carver Zoning By-law for property located at 243 Meadow Street in Carver, Massachusetts. Assessor's Map Assessor's map 86, lot four dash three, so is the constructed detached two-story, two-car garage with ridge height of 23 feet to include an unfinished attic, total square footage of 1,710. 700 square feet is allowed as of right in a residential agricultural district.

Well done and rid with feeling. All right. I observe the petitioner is present tonight and the significant other of that petitioner. You can sit right where you want to or you can sit in the hot seats. That's pretty close. I don't know if you want to do that.

Okay. We note that there was an email received

and placed in the file from a Michelle Mott. You know that name?

Yes.

Who is Michelle Mott?

She is one of the architects at the firm that we used.

Okay. Has everyone had a chance to review that email? Yes. The email that I'm referring to, there are back and forth emails over July 23, 2026 and July 24, 2026. If everyone recalls, we had an issue at our last meeting because we did not have a drawing. which I observed these are the drawings. Is that right? And we did not have an accurate square footage count. So I'm going to distribute these.

We've all got one. Oh, you already got this one. I guess it's mine.

All right. So let's go over this. And I ask the board, please. to ask any questions that it wishes at this point.

So I'm just looking at the calculation of the upstairs, the 370 square feet. Is it somehow notated on the drawing? I kind of looked at it. I didn't see where that begins.

There is an upstairs and a downstairs total square footage. And then in the email, I asked for the calculated with the 6 foot 6 inch height requirement. But I don't.

Okay, so I guess my question is, and I must say my memory might be failing me here, but do we typically see where that is designated on the drawing? I'm not sure.

I don't remember seeing it on the drawing. Okay, yeah.

No.

That's a good question, Mr. Poirier. What else? Ms. Spencer?

No, I don't have any questions. Thank you.

What are the pictures?

I don't know what I'm looking at here.

Okay, so these two pictures are from my neighbors, because you asked for pictures to see from my neighbor's view. Your neighbor is this house over here?

No, that's our house. That's your house.

Where is this taken? From your neighbor's property? Yes, that was taken from the front door pathway and the side door. So that's the decking outside. That's what they see at the moment. And then with this picture here, that's our view. There's a huge pile of... mulch there, because this is basically the area we use here. If we'd known it was going to take this long, we would have used this area here, because that's our veggie patch. We do a lot of tomatoes in there. Could have used some tomato soup, but sorry. That's about where the garage is going to be. That's basically where the garage is going to go, around here. We had to take these four pines down, because the two of them were diseased. So we had to take this down, because the neighbours were a bit... I don't know what's coming down on the house, so... Okay. That's the view from the neighbors. Two views from the neighbors. That's correct. That's what you asked for. On the 23rd.

Yeah, they have those tall, I don't know if they're used or are they used? Yeah, so we had talked about trees and I was like, they're not trees, but I can't quite remember. We call them conifers in the UK. So they have a little bit of blockage.

And they're still growing.

Yeah, they look nice.

What else, Mr. Barrington?

And the neighbors are well aware of what you're doing. Yes.

We mentioned it because we had one for Thanksgiving. Okay. We're very close.

They're a little bit, I don't want to talk about it. He helps out a lot.

John shouldn't be on the ladder anymore. He retired last year. He can't quite click his heels, but he jumps in the air like all of them. They have horses there.

And I don't see him here complaining. No. Ms. Dahl, what you got?

I don't have any questions. Actually, the drawings answered what we needed as far as for the footage. And they look very well done.

And the email explained.

Yeah, the whole calculation and how you got to that, which is great.

Is the cupola included as part of the height of the... Yeah, that's going to be...

We talked about whether or not we should print the email back and forth from our contractor, because I'm not happy with the height of the cupola. I think it's too tall, and I think it looks not .

Well, but is it taller than the peak of your house?

I don't think so, but it won't be that tall. And our contractor said that since it's not structural, we might have to redo the plans just for the cupola. He said that's something that we can work with later on. But I don't know how tall our house actually is, though.

a condition could be one he says over 30 about 30 feet yeah and uh does the proposed garage comply with all required setbacks yes yes how do you make sure did you i did actually ask

So where we wanted it, come over if you don't mind. It doesn't completely show it, but there's a huge tarmac drive all the way up here. was hoping to have it somewhere over here, taking over this one. Where the other shed is. Because the drive will go all the way up, but we're going to be spending a lot more money because we got to have it here, obviously, because you guys have said. I did actually ask him if it was okay, if we got plans to be slightly over zoning by, is there a leeway? I know you're shaking your head there, but he actually told me that, you know, there's a leeway of anything up to five or six feet. There's no leeway. Hang on a second. I'm just going to say, sorry, sir. But he actually said to me a week later, after I got both drawings, because I asked the guy to draw within the zone and just over the zone, which would have been three and a half feet, and he refused to say that I had that conversation with him, which I'm glad that I got both drawings done.

Yeah. So basically, yes, it will comply with all the requirements. And I believe that's the one that we submitted.

Now, obviously, we're going to have to put a lot of time in. We're going to figure out the right way.

We can do it.

What's going to happen with the shed?

That's coming down.

Yeah. Coming down.

Mr. Barrett.

I'm good.

So maybe I'm a little bit unclear. Is the height of the cupola 23 feet? No. Well, is the... Well, because your petition says a garage with a ridge height of 23 feet. But the picture shows a cupola, which is obviously above the ridge height.

So is it... We don't have to have that.

I think the cupolas are cute. Our neighbors have a shed with a cupola on it. I think it kind of fits in with the character of the area. If the problem is the height of the cupola, that's definitely something, whatever you guys recommend, we can work with.

Because like I said, I think it's too tall. It does look huge on there. Even her family would say, well, that looks terrible.

We refrain from getting involved in mandating design changes. If you want a cupola, have your cute little cupola, but it cannot be above the height. The height of the cupola, the peak of it, cannot be above the peak of your roof.

Okay, that's fine.

Okay, so you're going to have to... When we vote, and if we vote yes on this, we'll condition... the decision in a way so that it's very clear to your people and yourselves what it is that we expect.

Okay. I would expect that.

Yeah, that's just fine.

Mr. Poirier, what else? I'm all set, thank you. So you're going to have some exterior lighting on this garage, is that true? That's correct. Yes. No indoor plumbing, correct?

No, no plumbing.

Interior heating may be placed sometime in the future?

Yes.

Yeah, maybe a heater for the workshop or anything.

It will not be used for residential purposes? Absolutely not.

Our mothers would be offended.

So would your husband. All right. Do you have anything you want to add before we go to a closure of this hearing? While they're thinking, is everyone satisfied with these emails of July 23 and July 24 that I referenced before, that according to the architect, the actual square footage, first and second floor, The usable square footage on the second floor now is a total of 1,410 square feet. Everybody satisfied with that representation?

Yes.

Yes.

Mr. Poirier? Yes.

Okay.

So before we vote to close, you folks are going to need 710 square feet of relief from the bylaw. in your special permit, which is basically double the size that's allowed as of right. We went through this last time. The 700 square feet in the current bylaw for garages, the limit of 700 square feet, in my view, is unrealistically low in this day and age. So what we do is we speak to people to make sure that the square footage that they're seeking is really Consistent with their needs and does not offend the existing bylaw by too much. And we've had people, as we've told you, that come in with monstrous garage requests over 2,000 square feet. Because they want to put construction equipment in there and other man toys. Yeah. Does anybody have any comment about the amount of relief, 710 square feet, that they're going to require? No. Ms. Spencer?

No, I don't. No.

Okay. Do I hear a motion then to close the hearing? Motion to close the hearing. Do I hear a second?

Second.

All in favor? Aye. All right. So this public hearing is now closed, and we are required... at this juncture to render a decision. And I have a suggested finding that I would like the board to consider. This is the suggested finding.

He's looking at me very intently tonight. Quick question. Well, you accepted the word suggested. It is suggested. For all ears.

It's suggested until we vote. Yes? Do we know if the gentleman here is? Yeah. Would you like to say anything, sir?

No, I'm just observing this evening. Nice to have you here.

I wanted to make sure that there wasn't questions or comments.

If they want a garage, that's a great thing to take a garage. I'm a property rights advocate, and if the neighbors aren't here against it, I say do whatever you can to try to help them out.

So the suggested finding is this. The board finds that the benefits of the proposed use outweigh its detrimental impacts on the town and neighborhood in view of the particular characteristics of the site and of the proposal in relation to that site. Do I hear a motion to adopt that finding? So moved.

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Another suggested finding. The board finds that the proposed construction is not substantially more detrimental than any existing non-conforming structure in the neighborhood. So moved.

Second.

On favor? Aye. Now these are findings that must underpin where we're going with the decision. And here is the actual decision. That we agree to grant a special permit under sections 290-5-2.2a and 290-5-3.3. Mr. Spencer, do I hear a motion to adopt that decision?

So moved.

Second. All in favor? Aye. But this decision will be undergirded with certain conditions, and we're going to go through these one by one so you know exactly what your responsibilities are. First of all, this decision will be subject to the plans of record. We want to lock you into what you have provided us so that there is going to be no enlargement. And so that the building commissioner can understand what it is that you're intending to build out there. So subject to the plans of record. Second, the existing garage at the subject property will be removed before construction commences. Get that thing out of there. It's a shed.

It's in our contract.

Garage, shed. You know, we called it both names the last time because it's small.

There is a garage, but it doesn't face the driveway. It's tiny.

So how are we going to refer to that so we all understand?

That is good.

That's how we use it.

The garage will not be larger than 1,410 square feet. Right, everybody? Yes. The height of the garage will be lower than the peak of the roof of the principal dwelling, meaning your house. We don't want that. garage to be higher. That wouldn't look very good. Next, the garage will not be used for residential purposes. Unless he's a bad boy and you put him out there. There will be no indoor plumbing. Exterior lighting will be angled downward. to minimize disturbance to neighbors. And we've had this come up many times before in the past. Haven't we, Mr. Poirier? We have. And we want to make sure that whatever lighting you do put in there is shielded from your neighbors in a way that is not especially invasive. Okay? and that the proposed construction will comply with all zoning setbacks. You've represented to us that you believe that it does, and we accept you at your word, but we're going to list that, or I would suggest listing that, Ms. Dahl as a condition. Now, I see you're writing furiously over there. That's great, but we have to write something up. And today is Tuesday, so I would expect that by the end of this week, I'll have a draft maybe as early as tomorrow circulating amongst these fine people. They're leaving on vacation tomorrow, Stephen. Who's leaving on vacation? That's why we're meeting tonight. Yes, but I'm not sure that that's especially relevant because it's got to be circulated amongst you people first. And then once it's circulated, I go in a couple of days later if nobody wants to make any changes, and sometimes they do. And I sign for everybody. I would expect that that could very well happen by the end of this week. And then after that, Mr. Barrington has something that they'd like to read into the record so you understand what happens once the decision is signed and filed with the town clerk.

There is then a 20-day appeal period in case someone sees what we've done and wishes to appeal the case. So that's 20 days. After 20 days, you can pick up the decision from the building department and then go to the Plymouth Registry of Deeds to file the paperwork. And then bring paperwork back to the building department to get your permit. And then you're good to go.

All of this is going to be spelled out explicitly in the decision. So we're pretty detailed, and I don't think you'll have any issues with any of these conditions.

Great.

I hope. Mr. Barrington, do you have anything else you'd like to read with feeling? We haven't voted on this yet. No, we haven't. Is there anything that anybody would like to say about these conditions? Many times what we do is vote separately on these conditions, but because it appears that we're all on the same page here, and you've represented to us that you have no issue with any of these things, I opted to just read these seven. I counted seven. And we'll put on these up or down as a group.

Okay?

I'd like to move that we accept the conditions as expressed by the chair.

Do I hear a second? Second. All in favor? Aye. So these are conditions to the grant of the special permit. Again, all of this is going to be laid out in the decision. And these decisions are, as I said, explicitly drawn. They're legal documents. So I have to get them right for these people up here and also for you and for your people. Where did you tell us you were going on vacation? Okay. Is there anything that you'd like to ask us before we excuse you for the evening?

No, I think you've answered my questions.

Well, it's time to go home and have a glass of wine. I think so. Thank you very much. We're glad that we could accommodate you.

Can I ask a quick question? You've approved all the conditions. Have you approved the permit itself?

Yeah. We granted the special permit under sections 290-5-2.2a and 290-5-3.3. Did we not? Yes. I remember reading those numbers into the record. Yeah. But thank you for double-checking. What's your name?

Steve Bjorkman. So I'll chat with you guys after the meeting. It's not about this.

So are you from Iceland?

I'm not from Iceland, but I've been to the Supreme Court in Massachusetts, and if you're an attorney, you've probably heard my name before.

I have to say that I have been to the Supreme Court in Massachusetts, and I've argued a case there. But I don't recall your name because I have a lot of names in my head and a lot of dates and a lot of numbers. But thank you, everybody. Thank you for your attention. And thank you for cleaning this up for us so that we knew what we were.

We appreciate you taking the time to let us.

You bet. So good luck. Congratulations. Go have that wine.

Have a nice vacation. Thank you very much. Bye. Bye. Oh, thank you.

Now, I have, I think the only other thing that we have on tonight, because this was sort of a special meeting to accommodate them, was a correspondence over other matters that anybody wanted to speak to. Does anybody have anything? No.

No.

I have something.

Okay.

The legislature has just signed into law, or just voted and governor signed into law, as part of the fiscal year 2027 budget, some fairly significant amendments to the Zoning Act of Massachusetts, Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 48. And so I have asked, but I know what these things are. But I asked for a cheat sheet, if you will, from KP Law, because they do these e-updates for various towns and communities that they represent. And they did have an e-update that they could send, and I downloaded that and copied it. So I'm going to pass this out now to everybody. No action is required by the board on any of this stuff. This is for informational purposes only. So we know what we're doing.

So is what you're sending around to us the changes? Yes. Okay.

So familiarize yourselves with that. Going forward, we are bound by these changes. We'll have to get used to the amendments made to Chapter 48. This is to a large extent being driven by the desire of this administration and the legislature to loosen, to some degree, local regulation of housing to expand housing for people who need it, the amount of housing that people need. Because it's often difficult to either construct a new home or And we have seen over the last couple of years an increased number of folks coming to us for ADUs and additions and garages. So these changes will be helpful for you all to become comfortable with. They're not so dramatically different than what we've been doing, but there are some twists and turns with the new law that we haven't had to deal with in the past and we will be dealing with going forward in order to do our jobs properly. You're right, Ms. Dahl?

Mm-hmm.

Mr. Barrington. Sounds good. Mr. Corrier. Will there be a quiz at the next meeting?

I know.

He's full of himself tonight.

I will study this.

Now in the queue we have at least one case that I'm going to be sending over to you folks to begin to review and I think a signed case as well. So two and I have heard through the grapevine that there might be a third one. So right now all I can give you, and I will try to give this to you tomorrow, because there's a lot of material associated with this, the paperwork filed on that one case that I know we're going to have to schedule a hearing on. So let's talk now about our next date, because I don't think we have established a new date. We're not going to do it in August. So this is going to be a September meeting date. This is going to require publication because it's a new case. So we can't do as quick a turnaround as we did for these nice people. Right.

September 3 is a Thursday. September 8 is a Tuesday.

Let's start with September 3rd. Say that again, Jim.

What did you say? September 3rd.

That's a Thursday. September 1 is a Tuesday. Right.

I'm sure he's gone to the next week, the 8th.

Right, and that following Monday is Labor Day. The 7th is Labor Day.

Yeah. What about September 3? Rather than going deeper into September, give these people an opportunity to come before us a little bit earlier? Sounds good. Does that sound all right to everybody?

Sure.

And I'll notify Mr. Sullivan. This will be 6.30, and that's what, a Thursday?

Thursday, September 3rd.

So I suspect we'll be upstairs again. That's all I have. Anybody have anything else?

No. Okay.

Do I hear a motion to adjourn?

I'd like to make a motion to adjourn tonight's meeting.

With feeling.

Yes. Do I hear a second?

I'll second it with feeling.

All in favor? Aye. Thank you, Carter. Good night. Good night.