Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

So, it's nice. You're going to be the new vice chair. to be a doctor about seven years before that. Yeah, you love me where you [laughter] did it.

He asked me, I said, And then he came back and said, "No. The email that I got at 4:30 was Steve. This was You're heading at 4:30.

4:30. That happens to me a lot. So because that's tried to feel like I don't have the 1252 and at home I moved it over my computer

but hello How are you?

Hello everybody. Hello. [clears throat] There's got to be a reason why [snorts] you know my assumption was Oh, it doesn't matter. The email comes it goes to both devices. [snorts] It's supposed to go mail. [snorts] Yeah. All set, gentlemen.

Yes. Sure. Okay. Thank you. Good evening, everybody. This is the town of Carver zoning board of appeals meeting for January 29th, 2026. It's about 6:34. We are in meeting room one. And tonight we begin with approval of minutes from our previous meeting of December 16, 2025. Has everybody received draft copies of those minutes? Yes. Everybody have a chance to review them? Yes. Yes. Anybody want to make any changements, amendments, or modifications there too? No. Do I hear a motion? Motion to accept the minutes as written. As written. Second. Second. All in favor?

I. And those minutes are in fact approved. Next on [snorts] our list tonight is discussion and vote of election of a new vice chairperson as the previous vice chairperson has moved from the area. So, [snorts] we are currently without a vice chairperson and that makes me feel naked up here. So, um does anybody uh want to be heard with regard to who should be our selection for the next vice chairperson of the board? Don't everybody talk at once. I can't be both. Come on.

Come on, man. Let's go. I'm waiting. Well, if if it's one of the men, I guess I'm the guy stepping up. Wonderful. Does anybody uh have any other ideas? Mr. Bington has volunteered because he is a manly man. [laughter] Anybody want to be heard? Everybody confident in Mr. Bington's ability to become the new vice chairperson? Mr. Porer? Absolutely. Okay. Do I hear a motion? I'd like to make a motion. We look for a nomination or just a nominate motion to vote on his

Let Let's do the nomination. Okay. Nominate uh Jim Barington as the next vice chair of the zoning board of appeals. Do I hear a second? Second. All in favor? Now I hear a motion to uh vote on that nomination. Second. Second. All in favor? I I So, do we now need to vote or is that it? I think we're good. I would like to um commend Mr. Barington for stepping forward to take the position. I'm sure he'll do a fine job.

Yes, we all do. Mr. Bington, I'm glad you voted for your own election. That's good because we needed your vote to uh achieve a pora. Excuse me, Mr. By the way, we do have a new Can you turn off that blow up cuz we can't hear You can't hear a thing? Not a thing. Well, I want you to be able to hear me.

No, you're you're going to the TV people at home, not over here. That's See, this is his first official act as vice chair of the the board. Hurry up about it, would you, Mr. Vice Chair? It's on off. I feel it takes a moment for it to run through.

Okay, thank you very much. Now, in another 20 minutes, you can't complain that you're cold, though. [laughter] That's right. Because this is what happens. It's a It's a feast or a famine in here in the winter time. You either can't hear, the blow is going, or it's a little bit chilly. Okay. So, for those who couldn't hear in the audience tonight, Mr. Bington has just been elected the new vice chair of the committee in view of the fact that the former vice chair has moved from the area and is no longer part of this board. Okay. And we also voted to approve our last meeting minutes. That's it. Now we're going to move on to our continued public hearing. We have a short agenda tonight and I ask the new vice chair to read that public notice hearing notice into the record please. Public hearing case continued 29-9 B1-R petitioner Ronald Manard requesting a special permit and a dimensional variance pursuant to sections 290-2-2.4 E3 290-2-3.2 and 290-5-2.2 2 of the Carver zoning bylaw for property located at 21 Shores Drive in Carver, Mass. assessor's map 42, lot 20R so as to construct a detached 1,024 square foot garage. 700 square ft is allowed as of right and a rear setback variance of 19 ft. 50 ft is required in

the residential agricultural district.

Thank you for that. And I observe Mr. Manard to be present this evening. Good evening. Happy New Year to both of you. Come up to the table. And you want to make sure that you move that uh portable mic very close so we can all hear you because the official first action of the vice chair of this board has failed miserably. This heater blower is still on. So I urge everybody up here to please keep their voices up. I'll use my lawyer voice and you folks as well if you could make sure that you keep your voices up and uh I observe uh Miss Leighton moving around. If you would like to move into that chair right there on the fine

on the on the side table. No, the closer you get to me, the more I like it. Oh, okay. [laughter] I'm here. Thank you.

I'll be their assistant attorney. The person I'm speaking to is Joanna Leighton, who is a longtime member of the RDA, well known in town for her charitable activities and volunteerism, and we're happy to have you here with us tonight. Okay. Now, Mr. Manard, what would you like to tell us this evening? So, taking your directives from the last meeting on 1216, we went back and we did some updates. Um, in your packet that I left in front of you, there's a number of different items. One being an updated plot plan. There's actually three scenarios. The original plot plan that was submitted, a secondary plot plan, and a final plot pan with tonight's date on it, today's date on it. Also, as part of that uh packet is a ZBA synopsis letter, similar to this one, two pages, essentially tells you how what the approach was, what we're recommending based on what our goals collectively are. Um, renderings of the garage, what it actually looks like. So, you'll have four views of the front, back, and sides. A material list of what it's going to take to actually build it. a usable square footage calculation per the ZBA request last time for the second floor and an aerial parcel view showing the woodland buffer on the three sides of the lot which in my estimation is instrumental in maintaining the privacy and minimal line of sight from the road. So it gives us the most amount of protection uh as far as viewing the the uh garage. The

we have uh received all of these. Okay. and they have been distributed to all board members in advance of tonight's hearing. They were revisions. So I would ask you to maybe take a moment and look at just the letter. Tell us about the revisions.

Okay. Essentially in a nutshell, um we had exercised our abilities to [clears throat] move the building to its extremes in an effort to try to maintain a 50-ft rear set back and the 30 foot side set back. In the process of doing that, we had multiple revisions. Three of those you see before you tonight. The first one was obviously um a 31 ft rear setback. Thus, we were asking for the 19 foot of relief. It was maintaining a 37 ft side setback at that point. Revision one in the process of this um diligence on our part. We moved the building to its extreme to the back of the house. That meant that we not only moved the building from the street which gave us 48 feet of of side setback as opposed to 37 and [clears throat] it also gave us 33 feet of setback from the rear setback as opposed to 31. That was revision number two. In the process of that, in order for us to obtain that 33 feet from the 31 and also increase the setback from the 37 to the 48 off of the road, we rotated the building a little bit. We put it on the an access and we rotated it. What we found though in doing that was we were encroaching upon the septic system with one corner of the building. Not only that, we will also [snorts] present ourselves with a problem as far as usability goes. Our goal is to make sure that the building faces the same uh primary street logical address that we've assigned it as the house. So the the front of the building is essentially the the on the front plane of the house

as well. In a scenario number two, because of the rotation of the building, it made it impossible for us to actually pull into the building even using a 90deree turn. [clears throat] That's where revision number three came in and what we're asking for tonight. Revision number three, essentially slid the building, rotated the building back slightly, went back to a 31 ft set uh set setback on the rear property line, but also increase the the setback from the side property line or off of when I'm shores to 44.5 ft or approximately 50 ft off of edge of pavement. So that is that is us trying to achieve what you were trying to achieve as well and and increase the setbacks to whatever degree we could.

That's that's in relation to the plot plan which is the applicable plot plan. Now it's labeled number three in your packet. And if you compare it to one and two which is also stapled right behind it, you'll see how the building shifted. That's what I was missing.

You'll see revision two in the first one that we submitted. [clears throat] So, as I understand it now, Uh you're looking for a special permit to construct the proposed [snorts] detached garage in this case. Correct. Based upon the fact that you are oversized under the bylaw. Correct. And secondly, you're looking for a rear lot setback variance of 19 ft.

That's correct. due to soil conditions that is to say septic and leeching field constraints. Correct. So there's a lot of explanation from you but that's really where we are with this. Is that right? That is correct. All right. Now first of all let me commend you for coming back with more detailed information. first time I think the consensus of this board was that we did not have enough um despite your best efforts and this is the first time you've come before us so we don't expect you to get it 100% correct on the first goound but this is pretty close to being 100% on the second goound so

well well I happened to meet with the building commissioner after the first meeting and asked him the level of detail that he needed and went through exactly but that's important because once this leaves us assuming that we vote in favor favor. You're going to have to go to him to get the building permit signed. Correct. Um in a special permit. So, um just make sure that he understands that if we vote in favor of this tonight, it's proposal number three, correct? correct or rendition number three because you got a lot of information in here and for the file you need to be very clear with him which plan that you're working under.

Right. So I turn this over to the other board members at this juncture and ask if they have any questions or comments. So, are we still considering Plymouth Street as the front for zoning purposes? That's in accordance with the letter that the building commissioner submitted to you. Yes.

Um, I guess my response to that comment, as well intentioned as it is, is that we're the final authority, not him. So we can he can suggest to us and [clears throat] almost always he suggests in a manner that we find acceptable but we don't have to go long. So I haven't said that for the record. Mr. Bington I throw it back to you and ask you if you want to address this point any further or whether you feel as if you have heard enough on this. Mr. Palmer says that the front should be considered uh Plymouth Street even though the actual address is Winnham Shores Drive.

Correct. Because the front door faces one of uh faces Plymouth Street. Correct. Correct. Right. Because the other issue would be if it is the one shores road as the front of the house, the garage is out in front of the main house, right? Are you planning to legally change the address? No. No.

And that might require some additional relief. You want to check in the book and see if there is a requirement that the structure be placed in back of the house and not in front. Mr. Seems like it seems like we've had we've had I believe it does we we've had other projects like this before and whe I think if it's particularly if it's detached if I remember correctly I thought that was a

so can I as long as we're talking about stuff that we already talked about the last meeting though and maybe I'm wrong I these days I don't necessarily trust my memory very um very much. But um I thought we were in agreement that for zoning purposes. I thought that was our agreement as a body at the last meeting.

I think that that's the way it was going. But Mr. Bington raises an interesting point which is that if we're going to do this, they may need relief because that garage uh that they want to do is now going to be front of the house. No, he's saying if Wenham Shores is going to be the the the front of the house, then it will be in front of the house. Uh in relation to Plymouth Street, it's in back of the house. Is that correct? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Way behind the house. Mr. Bington, is that clearer for you now? Yes. Yeah. I I wanted to make sure we're all on the same page with that aspect as I've been looking at it. A vote that we're going to have to take when we get to it.

Okay. But you're right. We did uh talk about this at length the last time. I don't think it's necessary to have to go through this all over. Okay. Okay. Just want to make sure we will have a vote on this. Okay. Uh my other question, um as I was looking at the design, we're going to have a set of stairs on the outside and the inside. Well, initially we had come to you with only a set of stairs on the outside. I took your advice and actually installed a set of stairs on the inside. So, we lost some square footage on both the first floor and the second floor, which is part of the calculations that are in here as well. Included in the calculations,

and I want to commend you on that because you don't want to be going up exterior stairs in this weather. No, I agree. That's you know, you're going to be calling me because maybe it'll be a case. [laughter] So, there won't be outside stairs, just inside. No, both. Oh, you're going to have both. So if you look at the front of the building, there's actually a catwalk with a set of stairs that go up to it, but also in the back of the building inside there's another set of stairs. We thought we saw you and I were looking at the plans before, which is this side view and also shows it out. Right. Okay. Those are two concerns that I wanted to bring forward just to make sure we were clear on them.

Have those concerns been addressed so far? Yes. Anything further, Mr. Mr. Vice Chair, I'm good, Mr. Chair. Mr. Porer, no, I mean th those were the the items that both Jim and I were having a little discussion about as we looked at the diagrams just so I'm I'm all set, Miss D. No, I guess my my only other question was that you said was did you mention there was going to be a coupula on top? Yes. So, do you have the height of the actual building when it's all said and done? 20 feet. So it's 20 feet right with the coupula to the top.

No, it would have been 20 feet to the peak. The coupula would have been on top of that. Okay. And the height of the house uh the more than 20. Oh yeah, I would say over 30. Okay. Oh, excellent. So, with the coupula, how tall would you say it's going to be? Uh, to be honest with you, I just thought it was kind of cute to put it up there and [laughter] I haven't really landed on it. I would say, what's the average cooper? 18 20 feet 20 in 24 inches tall maybe.

Call it two feet. So, now you're going to be at approximately how much when you go to the peak of the Koopa? Uh, 22. In the house, it's what? Um, maybe somewhere between 20 and 31. Maybe somewhere in there. Try to guess somewhere what? Between 28 and 31. 28 30. Call it 30. Sure. Okay. My turn. Um, lighting. You going to have interior lighting or just exterior lighting or both?

Um, both. So, we've actually included lighting in this particular view and it shows you where the receptacles and where the LED lighting would be inside of the garage. There will be out external lighting in the form of onion lanterns by the doors. Um, angled downward, right? Yes. Yes. Go like this. We want the uh light to be angled downward as much as possible because we don't want any disturbance to the neighbors. I didn't realize onion lighting had an option to go any other way but down. See what you can do. Okay. Right. They go down. Yeah. Is there anything further that any member of the board would like to inquire about?

Anything further that the petitioner or Mrs. petitioner would like to talk about? Well, Mrs. Petition lost her voice and I'm sure she'd like to say a lot, but that's not happening tonight. So, um, just that I think we've worked really hard with trying to to meet your needs and our needs and consider the neighborhood and the neighbors and this is the best what we can offer at this point in time and I think it'll be last best offer. Last best offer. Miss Leighton, do you have anything that you want to add to this? Well, I personally sent you an email. That email has been received and distributed to all board members.

Okay. I just thought it was a I felt that you people he brought it up again and your question to these people are you willing to change your address and my two documents or that one document clearly shows 1985 is as well established by then the building commissioner as it is today. On the top of that page, it says to Wam Shores Drive. Yeah. Which is the mailing address. And it's very clear in Ron Rod Palmer's letter, which I sent also, which I got a copy of,

he said it what he is calling zoning only. That's it. Yes. So those two are should be separated and there should be I feel no continued meion. changing your mailing address. I don't think he intends to change its mailing address. You keep asking them. Well, I didn't ask that. Some other board member here asked. Well, it's it's like an inflection that you have. It was just It was just a question on my part if they were going to actually physically change the address or not. That's all. I don't think we're arguing over much here. Yeah. No, it doesn't. No, I mean, that's a that's what the town assigned us back in the day, and we're satisfied with that. So,

no. Yep. I had the same problem. I had an assigned number when I moved there and then they changed it later when they updated for the EMT. So, I know that things can That's because the cops were trying to find her. Yeah. [laughter] All right. Now, um, Miss Leighton, would you like to address any other issue pertinent to this petition or are you good? No. I thought Well, I thought there was going to be more of a setback, but I guess they can't make that happen. Yeah. what what they thought that they could give us um was 17 ft and now it's going to be uh I think I have this backwards 19 17 now back to 19 we were shooting

about what you're going to need we were shooting for 17 but as I mentioned the bond allocation would not work move it over two feet so it's going to be 19 ft on the relief if we yes originally originally They had started, you've heard that there have been revisions to this plan and they thought that they could find a couple of feet more and then decided because of septic conditions in leeching fuel conditions, but mainly septic that they couldn't really do that, right? So, we're back to the 19. Back to the 19, correct? Okay. You clear?

Yeah. I just hope he puts a couple of windows. So, I just thought looking at tall a tall barn, I could see a break in the in the back side of the building. Well, when you go over there, if you happen to look out, he's a very handsome man. So, I don't think his wife would appreciate. [laughter] And let the record show that Mr. Manard now has approached Miss Leighton and is showing her some of the handouts that were received by this board earlier today. You're not going to see that because the dog will still be in the back. Well, this part we'll figure something out. We'll put a big tree there for you. No, you put a window at least.

So, I want to thank you for um working through this situation. It's an odd situation. Yes. [clears throat] Beginning with the street and the proper designation and then the relief and you're going to need combined relief if we grant this both special permit and variance. So, we don't always see that. We've done it before, but it's not commonly needed by petitioners. When someone comes in, it's usually a special permit or a variance or two, not both. So, if everybody is done speaking about this, I ask that uh we entertain a motion to close the hearing. So moved. Second. All in favor? I.

Hearing is now closed. No more evidence will be taken and we move to the findings of this board. And I'm going to read some suggested findings which will underpin our decision. Can I ask why you closed the meeting before doing this? I beg you pardon. Can I ask why you closed the meeting prior to doing this? Not the meeting. Just the discussion. Yeah. Just discuss we close the discussion period. Okay. Yes. The the public hearing the discussion. So here's the first finding that I asked the board to consider. The board finds that for zoning purposes only, street frontage in this instance shall be recognized as Plymouth Street.

I'll make that motion. Are you a second? Second. All in favor? I. Next proposed finding board finds that the benefits of the proposed use outweigh any detrimental impacts on the town and the neighborhood in view of the particular characteristics of the site and of the proposal in relation to that site. So move second. Second. All in favor? I I. Next finding. The board finds that the proposed construction is not substantially more detrimental than any existing non-conforming structures in the neighborhood.

So moved. Second. Second. All in favor? I. One more finding. The board finds that owing to circumstances relating to soil conditions, shape and/or topography of the lot or structures, but not affecting the district generally, a literal enforcement of the provisions of the bylaw would involve substantial hardship to the petitioner. Relief may be granted without substantial detriment to the public good and without nullifying or substantially dergating from the intent or purpose of the bylaw. [laughter] So move. Second. Second. All on feder. I. These are the findings of this board

decision. I suggest the following. That someone make a motion to grant a special permit under article 5-2 section 290-5-2.2A and article 5-3 section 290-5-3.1. N290-5-3.3 of the Carver zoning bylaws to construct the proposed detached garage not to exceed 1,46 square ft. I'll make that motion. Do I have to say the whole thing that you just said again? [laughter] I was going to say

and [snorts] I do have that square footage number off of your correct um geometry. Correct. So I I'll make I'd like to make that motion. Second. Second. All in favor? I. Now, that's for the special permit, but you need more than the special permit, don't you? You need a begins with a V.

Varants. So, I suggest that a motion be made to grant a rear lot setback. Remember, we're we're basing this on the front being Plymouth Street. a rear lot setback variance under Massachusetts general laws chapter 40A section 10 and article 5-2 section 290-5-2-2B of the Carver zoning bylaws for dimensional variance of 19 ft right 19 ft owing to soil conditions that is to say septic and leeching field constraints

right let's just 19 ft right that's what we You had 31 and correct away. Right. So 19. [clears throat] Okay. Thank you. Anybody want to make that motion to grant the rear lot setback variance 19 ft? Make the motion to grant the rear lot setback variance of 19 ft in accordance with the bylaw. Second. All in favor? I.

Now, we typically attach conditions to our decision. I'm going to go through these conditions one by one and ask for board votes. First, the decision is conditioned on the garage not being used for commercial purposes. So moved. Second. All in favor? I second. The garage will not be used for residential or living purposes, even though she may want to throw you out of the house from time to time. Anybody want to make that motion? Second. Second. All in favor? I

three. The garage will only be used for the storage of a personal motor vehicle and other personal property of the petitioner. So moved. Second. On fair. I. Fourth. Radiant floor heat will be allowed on the ground level only. Right. There's only one. Well, there's a little floor above there, but only on the ground floor are going to be putting radiant heat. So, why why that limitation? Because that's what you told us. Okay. I don't remember saying that. I remember that. Uh we asked you about heat and you said there would be a radiant floor on the first floor.

Yeah, but I never said that. I may not consider putting heating on the second floor at some point. So, what are you telling this board now? you will not accept that condition. I'm saying that I don't want to be limited to just the first floor because I had because I'm not it's inconclusive whether or not I'd ever use heat on the second floor. I' I'd rather not have that limitation put upon me. So, you would feel better with the following condition. Radiant floor heat will be allowed in the interior of the proposed garage. I would appreciate that. Do I hear a motion? So moved. Second. Second. All in favor? I. Thank you.

Fifth, a spigot for delivery of water to the ground level only of the garage will be allowed. So moved. Second. [clears throat] How are these minutes going to get written? I don't know. All in favor? I sixth. The garage will not be wired for electricity. Do I have that right? It will be relied. It will be wired for electricity. Yes, it will. How would the lights work? Do I hear a motion to allow that condition? So moved. Second. All in favor? I.

Seventh. Uh the garage will have interior and exterior lighting. The exterior lighting to be angled downward as much as possible. So moved. Second. All in favor? I. One more. subject to the plans of record and drawings which are incorporated herein and made part of this decision with special attention to the plan number three. Number three, which is dated in handwriting 12926. Do I have a motion? Motion.

Second. All in favor? I. These are your conditions. Now,

Mr. Uh, Bington is new to this, so I'm going to read what we usually say at the end of all of these things. Any person agreved by this decision may appeal to a court of competent jurisdiction pursuant to Massachusetts General Laws, Chapter 48, Section 17, within 20 days of the date that this decision is filed in the office of the town clerk. That's for your benefit. These folks up here can tell you that I'm very quick on writing decisions. So, I would expect that by the beginning of next week, this condition will be this decision will be filed in the office of the town clerk and then the 20-day clock starts ticking. I don't expect anybody's going to be appealing this. Nobody has spoken out in opposition, but this is a a time period over which we have no control because it's state law. And at that point after the 20 days, that's when the building permit can be applied for.

I would I would assume that that's the position he's going to take with you. Keep in mind also that this decision needs to be recorded in the Plymouth County Registry of Deeds in Plymouth. You know where that is, right? On Street. Yes. So, congratulations. It's been a long road and many conversations and uh I guess persistence in this case was beneficial to you both and to us here on the board and we wish you the best of luck going forward. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time. If you have a garage warming party, please invite us. [laughter] I like all different kinds of pizza.

Thank you for doing the extra work on that to show us exactly the lengths that you kind of went to. I don't think you're going to be building anytime soon with the weather and the ground frozen. No, it would it would figure the last three years they haven't seen a snowflake and now clogged with it. Right. Right. I don't know what the latest and greatest weather report is for the weekend, but four to six. The more snow in southeastern Massachusetts than is nothing. And I hope you're feeling better. Thank you. Thank you. What did you say? [laughter] Sign language. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Have a good night. You too. All right, we now need to speak of And thank you, Joanna, for coming in. I hope you were entertained. Oh, yeah. You are always entertained. Thank you. I've known you for a long time. Yes, you have. You're a great gal. Thanks for everything you do for the job. I think we'll be doing a campaign again, too. Really? [laughter] You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I do. I do. Good night. This is yours, Derek. Oh, thank you. We need to talk about our next hearing date because

I believe that we now have three cases in the queue, all filed and ready to go. So, um I think it's likely that I will have this decision drafted tomorrow for distribution among them. And at about the same time, I will send you emails with all of the uh documents pertaining to these three cases in the queue and supporting um documents relative to those three cases. Okay. But let's talk about a date maybe later on in February because we've got to get uh all of these now published and we have to allow time for that. So I'm thinking the end of February since we're already last week of February for me is out. Why is that?

I'm on gone the whole week. Well, you're going to be subpoenaed. How about Thursday the 19th, which is the week before? No, I don't think that's going to give us enough time soon. Okay, we may have to go into March then because of Mark's schedule. So, what about the following week, the first week of March? I'm good each day. And what about you, Miss Doll? So far so good. Uh, Wednesday's not good for me. Well, pick another day then. Uh, weren't you the one that wanted us to meet on Wednesdays? No, actually that was one of our former beer uh board members. Ah, are you good on the the first week of March, Mr. D?

I think so. I mean, Mon Monday, Tuesday, or Thursday? I I'd rather it not be Monday. We can do another Thursday. At least I think we're going to have this room available. Sure. And there will be, I think, three cases. I know of two uh that I've reviewed already and I think there's going to be a third one. So, this will be a longer evening and I'd rather that it not be on a Monday, which is my real busy day. Sure, that's fine. So, what do you think about Thursday? I don't have any problems. Thursday works. Is this going to interfere with your workout schedule, Mr. Bington? Um I I'll be sure to go earlier in the day. Yeah, we don't want you to get

Is our new member going to be able to join us on that day? And we certainly hope so. And I will tell you that we do have a new member now. We have a fifth who has been duly appointed and approved. His name is Joseph Sullivan. He has a very good background in property management and has said that he uh appears uh has appeared in front of many boards in communities in our area. So, I think he's going to come ready um ready made into rock and roll with this board. Good. So, what is that first Thursday? It's the 5th. March March 5th.

March 5th. Okay. And I will reach out to him um and let him know that March 5th is a day that he must be here. Y and I think that basically finishes the business that we had on the docket for tonight. Does anybody have anything else they want to discuss? No. No. No. Do I hear a motion? Motion. Motion to with a Sorry. Second. All in favor? All right. Good night, Carver. Good night. That's it.