Board of County Commissioners - Regular Meeting

As we always do, we'll begin with a Pledge of Allegiance and a moment of silent reflection. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I hope everybody is doing well today. It is a beautiful Thursday after all, and up first on our agenda as always is Priority Carol and Commissioner Kyler. We will start with you today.

Okay, thank you. And I mentioned in closed, and I talked with District 7 engineer yesterday some, and we talked about many topics, but... One of those, and I'll check with CCPS to see where they are with it. I know a Manchester Valley student was hit last year crossing Route 30. And I know there's grants for walks, and that is a pretty rough situation on Route 30. They also have an emergency gate at the back of the school, and I don't know whether they let kids use that or not, but I'm going to check into that. And then the other topic that came up, and I'll get more information on it, but evidently the state of Maryland is advocating that speed cameras go up on different state highways. And the District 7 hasn't pursued it. But their question is, do we, Carroll County, want 140, 97, 27, pick them? Do we want speed cameras? Or will we just as soon not? So think about it and let me know. I want to mention the 4-H Fair. Not because you're here. But 4-H Fair. And it's just such an awesome event. And we love supporting it. And this morning, which hopefully my tie is straight. Rhonda left before I did. She went to Stony Point to pick up our hog. And the fair is two-edged. Hopefully we support the kids. Hopefully we support 4-H and Farm Bureau and all of that. But she's taken probably three-quarters of the hog. into salt and pepper sausage to Carroll Food Sunday. So it's a double donation. So thank you guys for what you do out there. And you're actually benefiting more people. And Rhonda and I are going to, on a personal note, we're going to visit our daughter this week and our grandson in two weeks. And we got Labor Day coming up. We'll be back for Labor Day because of things going on here. But hopefully that's family time and everybody enjoys Labor Day and has a good time. Again, it's two-edged. It's kind of the end of the season for the pools and for different things going on. So it's it's almost a little sad Market Street we did that public hearing and I think nine people came and spoke two or three in favor and two-thirds of them wanting it closed. We did work sessions. We're doing more work sessions. I mentioned District 7 already. We got a public hearing tonight at 6 p.m. and I encourage everybody to get there and comment if you're interested and, uh, information's on the web and hopefully everybody knows about it. And lastly, I just want to mention again, our volunteer fire departments. Again, I know they're having some crab feeds, they're having bingo, they're doing things to raise money and a carnival season's over while it was fun and a good way to support them. We need to keep supporting them. We have 14 volunteer, uh, fire departments, And, uh, well, their property and vehicles probably worth over 200 million. Um, and they've got a lot of volunteers. We couldn't afford just like wrecking parks, just like, uh, many of the farm museum ag center. We couldn't afford in Carroll County with our quality of life to pay everybody that volunteers and, and does for us. So we need to appreciate them and help them. Thank you.

Well said, Commissioner. Thank you. Commissioner Gordon?

Well, thank you. Good morning, Carroll County. I want to bring up first one of the things that I think is on everybody's minds this week, which started Monday, which is back to school. And Carroll County Sheriff's Office was heavily involved with that. We had Deputy Harvey with a video on Facebook. I do truly appreciate all our SROs. I had a great video of him welcoming kids back to school. But Monday started a new school year, and I want to wish all our students, teachers, administrators, and staff a successful and rewarding year ahead. Obviously, it's a great time for our students to learn, but it's also about patience, dedication, creativity, and opportunity. So I just want to thank everyone. Obviously, be safe on those roads out there because buses are back, parents are dropping kids off, and give yourself a little extra time because we are back into school. Secondly, I wanted to mention real quick, the Maryland State Highway Administration is working on a project on Maryland 27 by Liberty Road. in Westminster Railroad Avenue between Tuck Road and Bond. This is currently going on in the evenings. It began, it started this past Sunday, 8 p.m. to 5 a.m. each morning. This will run through hopefully about mid-October, so just be aware if you're, whether you're driving down Main Street in Westminster or any of those other related roads in that area, there are gonna be delays and backups evening into early morning. Just be aware and just keep focus on that. Also wanted to, Chris, if you could bring up the next slide. Wanted to mention something that I thought was really awesome that kind of hit my radar earlier this past week. So this is Miss Frager, who's a recently retired high school librarian who has now set up a little free library, which is chartered here in Westminster. If you have any books at home that could use a new reader, this could be a wonderful opportunity to give them a second home in life and to help spread the joy of reading throughout our community. She's happy to either come pick them up or you can drop them off. The address for this little free library is 17 Chase Street in Westminster. And again, as I've always mentioned, but it's just a perfect example of how our community gets together and works together and does such wonderful things for all of us. So just want to give a shout out for that real quickly. Chris, you can go to the next slide. I also want to mention very briefly Genova's 50th anniversary, so half a century to them. Amazing that, you know, we have businesses, small businesses in our communities and, you know, it's hard to believe it's been 50 years, but I truly want to thank them for all they've done in the community, not only as a business, but they've also given back to a lot of nonprofits and organizations. And anytime we can, we should definitely make sure we support our small businesses because they truly are the heartbeat and lifeblood of most of our community and just want to thank them exceptionally for that. Uh, we can go to the next slide. Also want to mention this one. We've got a uh, member of our carroll county farm museum staff who has just published a book wanted to give a shout out to ann gilbert on her first novel for kids always great to again see things going on in our community that we might not be aware of but just amazing to see that we have so much creative talent and ability in our community so i wanted to share that as well And then I want to mention happy anniversary to Lester White and Shannon White, 71 years. That's quite impressive. They've been an institution in Carroll County for as long as I can remember, and I remember visiting them on Main Street as a kid over the years, so I just wanted to mention that. Last, I do want to bring up one thing. I don't know if anybody saw it on Facebook. County government put it on Facebook. The Sheriff's Department mentioned it on their Facebook. We also put out an email blast. But there have been some scams going around portraying themselves as being from either the Planning and Zoning Department of Carroll County or other possible entities within county government. They're asking for money to pay various application fees or other things. Be sure to just be vigilant as we all should be in any aspect of our lives from any email we receive. But keep an eye on those email addresses because the one thing that has stood out to date is the email addresses are not Carroll County government email addresses. Just, you know, if you can, do your due diligence. We've tried to put it out in every fashion possible. But, again, just be aware. And that's all for me. Thank you.

Very well said, Commissioner Gordon. I will add to that, especially the point about the email scam. If you have any doubt whatsoever, don't hesitate to contact this office to verify whether it's real or not. And again, very well said. Commissioner Guerin?

Yeah, thank you. Good morning, Carroll County. Just briefly, previous two comments mentioned the fact that schools started again And anecdotally, I think I've seen my share already of people not driving safely around bus stops. You've got to stop when you're supposed to stop. When you see those flashing lights, just stop. It's not worth it. I've seen unsafe driving recently for some of our road crews. People complaining about having to slow down and stop It's always farming season in Carroll County no matter what time of the year it is and you've got farm equipment on the roads and I've again anecdotally I've seen People getting frustrated with the fact that they've got to wait behind a combine or something maybe it's a sort of pet peeve of mine a personal issue of mine, but If you live in here in Carroll County, you've got to practice patience. And you've got to understand this is a rural county. We've got bus stops everywhere. Very few kids walk to school. And we've constantly got road crews out trying to make our roads better because it is a public safety issue. So just slow down and be aware. And if you've got complaints about any of those three things, do not contact me because you already know what you're supposed to do. We're all adults. So and I think I probably speak for the other four commissioners as well. So let's be safe out there. We do not need to replicate what is happening in some other counties. There are people getting hit all the time. There's accidents all the time. I know those are different populations. They're more populated areas is what I'm saying, but, um, let's keep Carroll County safe. And that's all for me. Very well said commissioner, commissioner Krebs.

Thank you, and it reminded me, the other night I was at a function and ran into an old friend from the Board of Education who used to be our budget director, and Mr. Brillhart, and we were talking about how he was one of the ones that got the cameras on the school buses, and how he had to advocate for years in Annapolis to get the approval to do that. And when they started seeing the statistics, they had a pilot program, and they started seeing the statistics, how many people were running those those lights, they finally showed a picture of a boy that almost got hit because he went around and somebody passed the arm that went down. And thank goodness, the bus driver yelled out the window and the kid stopped. And once they showed that picture, they passed the bill. And that's why we have cameras on buses now. So it's good. What day was that? Tuesday. I think we had an unveiling of the Bill Murphy Veterans Independence Shuttle. I have a picture up there. There's Mr. Bill Murphy, and he's obviously a longtime supporter of VIP, Veterans Independence. And he's been shuttling people around for a long time, but he dedicated this car so we would have a vehicle forever, for as long as the vehicle lives, to shuttle the people locally within Carroll County. Right now we have a shuttle that goes outside to certain places to take veterans to the VA centers, but this will, he's already got a list of people that he uses, but this sort of more formalizes it, have different drivers, and this will be the vehicle locally that veterans can use to get places. So the Bill Murphy Veterans Independence Shuttle is is one more example of Carroll Countians doing good things for each other. So we thank him for that. Then we had, I'm just announcing the 9-1-1, 9-11 is coming up. The Remembrance Run is coming up in Carroll County. Remember to run, run to honor. Honoring the heroes of September 11th by supporting the heroes of today. All benefits and proceeds are going to Tunnels for Tower. So the leg will start today. This is on 9-11 at Miller's Food Market on Manchester Road at 4 PM. Get there a little early. And they will run the five miles. Whoever wants to participate, they may. The target pace is 10-minute miles. I don't think that's too bad. I think we could walk that. Could we walk? Yeah, I could walk a 10-minute mile. So from Miller's to Lineboro Volunteer Fire Department. We're supposed to end about 4.50. It's open to all runners. We welcome anyone who wants to join them. Let's see. The target pace. And they're there to run with us, honor with us, never forget. They're going to have running flags available for anyone that would like them. Every mile matters. And obviously, your donations matter as well. You have to pay twice as much if you don't run than if you do run. They didn't put that on here. I just wrote that. So they'd love to have everybody come and join us for this leg. So run with them. Honor with us. Never forget. And they're here to honor the lives that were lost on September 11, 2001. So that's interesting from up there. And then one last thing. I saw this article in the paper about data centers. which are obviously the transmission lines are big to us. And I did not realize some of these things, but evidently Governor Moore came out and he's striking an evolving tone on the state's data center, boom, just two years after his administration helped clear the registry hurdles for the industry. Maybe we'll be making a little bit more progress, because I know a couple of years ago, he was supportive of all of the data centers. And as we know, we're shutting down power plants, and we don't have the electric necessarily. So in 2005, actually, the governor vetoed legislation that would direct Maryland to study the environmental, engineer, and economic effects of data center development. But luckily, the lawmakers rejected that decision during a special session, which is very unusual to override your own governor. I'm not sure what the status of that study is, but at least it's going on. There's enough concern throughout the state, electric affordability and grid capacity have become increasingly pressing political concerns. And now the governor is emphasizing that communities should have greater say over where data centers are built. It's sort of a shift in – so the shift is underway this year. He's addressing consumer energy bills because that seems to be a big issue with our consumers. So I think it's a good move that the governor's finally getting the message that we've got to solve the problem of electricity and where data centers should go or shouldn't go. And it's really a statewide issue, and I'm glad that he's on board, so I just wanted to bring that up. Maybe we're all swimming in the same direction for a change. And Carroll County has been leading the charge on this since the very beginning. I thank the Board of Commissioners for doing that. And we'll continue to fight that. And hopefully, we've got some good news about the schedule for the Public Service Commission. It's finally posted. But it's next spring. So we have time. Time is good. Extra time, buying time is good. Hopefully things are changing and we're going to have some solutions and not have to worry about it, but we have to be vigilant and keep going. So that's my update on the power lines and the data centers.

Very well said, Commissioner. Thank you very much. And I want to thank all my colleagues, as always, for their hard work and their dedication and involvement in everything going on in the county over the course of the past week. So very briefly, I want to touch upon three quick things. Commissioner Krebs already very capably talked about the Veterans Shuttle, that Veterans Independence Project, in conjunction with Bill Murphy, uh... the cal art foundation uh... bunch of guys from uh... vip including frank valenti jason sidok mike pennington uh... and commissioner gordon and commissioner krebs and myself were in in attendance for that unveiling as well as celine steckel from citizen services and uh... you know for anybody who doesn't know bill murphy not only is a veteran but he is a really really upstanding guy he's long been a role model and a pillar of the county between his military service and his community service and that shuttle is going to be very instrumental in helping to get our veterans and some of their families around It really is an amazing thing, and it shows you what this county and what our citizens are capable of doing. We do things unlike anybody else, and that is to say we do things with style, with class, and with dignity. Second of all, I want to, as Commissioner Kyler had mentioned as well, I want to remind everybody that tonight at 6 o'clock p.m. here in the county office building in the Reagan Room, that is room number three downstairs, is the public hearing for proposed amendments to our planning code. Those include proposed amendments to Chapter 155 cluster subdivisions, proposed amendments to Chapters 155, 156, and 158 regarding changes related to accessory dwelling units, and also proposed amendments to Chapters 91, 155, and 158 regarding changes related to retirement villages and retirement homes. And then the last thing Commissioner Krebs also alluded to with the 25th anniversary of September 11th, obviously at the Public Safety Training Center next week, we will be having our own commemoration of the 25th anniversary of September 11th. And we will be posting details about that in the next couple of days. Everybody is invited, encouraged, and welcome to attend. And I would imagine that the media center will be filming it as they always do, right?

We strive to be there as much as we can.

All right. And I promise there is a reason why I brought Rich up in the media center. Commissioner Gordon, I believe you have some kind of certificate of recognition. I do.

If we could have Mr. Turner and anyone else that wants to come up forward to the table, please.

We don't have enough chairs, but... Okay. I'm just pulling.

You can pull them up if you want, by all means. Did you like that segue? I did like that segue. That was quite a good one.

Hey, nobody wants to sit in the middle.

They found out about that, Chair, but that's okay.

So obviously all of us know, but I want to just give you a second, if you could, just to give the public that's watching any just general information about what the Community Media Center does, because obviously you all are a huge asset and a wonderful addition to our community. But just to give just some general overview for anybody that really might not be aware of all that you do.

Thanks very much. Appreciate the opportunity. And the Community Media Center, over 35 years, has been providing services to the county, making it possible for individuals to come in, learn how to use the current tools of media technology, and create their own content, transmit them by various means, including our cable channels, as well as over the internet. And of course, our own coverage generated by our staff, covering various events, including municipal meetings. now sports coverage, and ensuring that we can see the best of what happens in our community. So they can find that content at www or at communitycarrollmediacenter.org.

And tell them, and everybody should know this, physically, where are you? Because to me, you come in through Westminster career, you know, it's confusing.

Right, yeah. In terms of where we're located, probably a lot of folks pass right by us and not sure that we're actually there. Don't realize that you are there on the Westminster campus. school campus next to the high school and to the career and tech schools so that we are right across from the Carroll Technology Center, Career and Technology Center.

Well, as you mentioned, you know, the public has the opportunity to come in and use your equipment and technology to better understand how to create media. I had the honor of seeing that a number of years back with the Boys and Girls Club when they came out, and it was just absolutely exceptional. They got to, you know, one minute they're standing there behind the green screen and they're, you know, swimming with fish. I mean, you name it, you guys can do it. So it's impressive. But then... The one thing I did want to mention that the Community Media Center does quite well also is that you also are sort of the keeper's repository of a lot of content, specifically being about our veterans. I know that you've recorded a lot of different histories, be it the former students at Robert Moten. So we're very, very blessed to have and fortunate to have you all keep that because We think about objects and we think of documents, but sometimes I think the most valuable history is getting that actual spoken word and that video of those individuals because it's great to have the written, but to have them almost as close to being there to me is invaluable. So I want to thank you all for that as well. Thank you. So we have a certificate of recognition for the Community Media Center and recognition of the 2026 Hometown Media Award from Alliance for Community Media Foundation for the production of the 128th Carroll County 4-H and FFA Fair. The community media center was selected as the winner of in the community events, parades, and festivals category access center professional. On behalf of the citizens of Carroll County, we want to congratulate you for your wonderful work showcasing our county and this is signed the county commissioners. I do again want to just say you all do a wonderful job and thank you all, your staff, your volunteers, your board. You're an invaluable asset to our community and just want to say thank you.

thank you um you know we're honored to be here today and give thanks and recognition also to the many partners and individuals who made this national recognition possible first let me recognize our board one of our board members bill eccles who's here but also introduce our the community media center of carroll county's board chair theresa bethune

Thanks, Richard. Thank you commissioners for acknowledging this great achievement. The team worked really hard as well as the fair committee to get to that point. Our vision at the community media center is an engaged, informed, and inclusive community connected through digital media. And if ever there were an example of Carroll County coming together and showcasing the best of what we have to bring, it's getting this award. So thank you to all involved and thank you for the recognition.

At the risk of being one of those tearful actors on the stage of the Oscars who gets the playoff moment, I do have, I want to give thanks. My first thanks are to you and your predecessors who saw the vision and importance of having a nonprofit media center who would ensure that free speech and local media by and for our residents mattered. Thanks to the digital architects like Gary Davis, who could not be here this morning because of a scheduling conflict. that had the vision for fiber connectivity among our amazing community facilities, including the CMC and the Carroll County Agricultural Center, that would save costs and enable live programming showcasing the best we have to offer. Thanks to Carroll County Cable Regulatory Commission and their administrator, Carol Shalva, who is here, for their steadfast support, including funding of television production equipment and matching funds. Thanks to retired administrator Roberta Windham who continuously supported CMC in our mission and gave me reassurances that we would continue on. Thanks to the Carroll County's Office of Technology and Director Allison Deacon for upholding the promise of fiber infrastructure and connectivity that along with Info Pathways made the concept of live programming from the AgCenter possible. Thanks to the very talented and dedicated production team. Rachel Camel, who is among us today, is here representing, and the volunteers who spent over 525 hours producing over 43 hours of wall-to-wall coverage, presenting presenting and generating over 70,000 views on cable and internet streaming. But wait, there's more. Because this national highly competitive award, our Emmy or Oscar, wasn't one just because of the amazing partnerships, technological innovation and creativity, it was the content. Carroll County's youth showing their best in breeding, raising their animals at the 4-H and FFA fair. And so thank most of all to the fair board and clubs who are the ones who really made this national recognition possible. And I want to wholeheartedly thank fair board chair and vice chair Crystal Dell and Bradley Thomas. I don't know if you want to say a couple words at all or?

No. All right.

We definitely appreciate the partnership. Thank you.

Well, thank you very much for coming in. I'll just say very briefly myself, you really do a vital and really important public service for the community. And I think for me, more than anything, you do it in such a professional way. You forget that you're watching a stream from a nonprofit. You might as well be one of the big cable news broadcasters or something. You guys do a phenomenal job. whatever it is you're covering, whatever you're documenting, you are recording history. And I certainly appreciate and respect that and thank you for everything that you do for us.

All right. Thank you very much. And you said it, but CMC is one of the jewels of Carroll County. Involved in MABE and now MACO, Carroll County works together better than any other county in the state. And you guys are an example of that. So thank you. And the two behind you, I've never seen you not want to talk. So I like this.

I want to grab a photo. Let's do it. I want to have them come up. Maybe we should stay up. Yeah, we'll stay up here.

You need to bring everybody up. Yeah, bring everybody up.

Well, I'll let a taller one. Did you squat down a little bit? Yeah, we got you. You're good, brother.

you thank you very much congratulations all of you congratulations thank you very much congratulations congratulations congratulations thank you very much thank you guys thank you congratulations thank you thank you for coming in thank you thank you congratulations so you're the reason they work so well with the neighbors

Hi. Nice to see you.

Now, also speaking about September 11th and emergency preparedness, whether it's man-made or natural, disasters and emergencies are going to happen. And so I believe, Commissioner Guerin, you have a proclamation. I do.

It is Carroll County Preparedness Month, and I see Director Hawkins and I see some of your crew, if you want to come on up to the front. And I'll go ahead and start off with the proclamation. How's that sound? Is that all right? Okay. Okay. As Commissioner Bigliotti mentioned, planning and preparing for emergencies and disasters of all kind is the shared responsibility of every community, every business, every family, and every individual. And Carroll County Preparedness Month, in coordination with National Preparedness Month, provides an opportunity to highlight the important role of individuals as they prepare for emergencies in their homes, businesses, schools, and communities. And the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the Carroll County Department of Emergency Management and Communication urges all Carroll County residents and business owners to take time during September this month to create an emergency supply kit, to make a family or business emergency plan, to remain informed about different threats and the appropriate response to each, and to get involved in preparing their community and their own homes for emergencies. Therefore, the Board of Carroll County Commissioners recognizes the importance of preparing for potential emergencies and is proud to observe September 2026 with appropriate preparedness activities and do proclaim that September 2026 is Preparedness Month in Carroll County. So welcome, Director Hawkins.

Thank you, Commissioner. It works out very well that September is National Preparedness Month and Carroll County Preparedness Month now. It has started in 2004 was the actual first National Preparedness Month. I don't remember for sure whether the commissioners have been doing a proclamation for that many years. It's been a long time. I know it's been at least since I have been here. We certainly appreciate all of the support for getting the word out about public preparedness. I have with me here today Jacob Hill, who is our Assistant Emergency Manager. To my right is Grant Yost, who is our Emergency Management Technician. And Brian Kernan is our, yep, he did move up forward. He is our lead for outreach. Grant and Brian have worked very hard over the past year or so to increase our public outreach, and this is part of that. I'll turn it over to Jacob to talk a little bit more specifically about what folks can do in the community and how important it is for everybody to take a role in their personal preparedness.

Yeah, so National Preparedness Month is a great opportunity to take those small steps when they matter the most during an emergency. It's a good opportunity as well to reinforce that personal preparedness or preparedness in general is not just an emergency management responsibility. It's a community-wide responsibility. An effective emergency management relies on a prepared community. The theme for 2026 is America's Stand Ready, I believe. And that really focuses on that self-preparedness, self-reliance, and the ability for communities to come together when it matters the most, which we do quite well here in Carroll. In celebration of preparedness month, we are kicking off our fall offering of our Ready Carol Citizens Preparedness Program, which is a free four-week program for community residents to come and learn about preparedness, how to build a kit, how to build an emergency communications plan for their family, an escape plan, things like that. We also have our partners coming in from fire and EMS to talk about fire prevention, simply how to use a fire extinguisher and things like that. The third week, we have our partners from the Sheriff's Office come in and talk about target hardening, crime prevention. And then that fourth week, we have some community volunteer organizations coming in and talking about what they do and give them a chance to recruit community members. So that's a great opportunity. We encourage everybody to sign up and come and learn a little bit about emergency preparedness. You don't have to come to all four weeks, but we encourage you to do so. Those dates are going to be the 9th, the 15th, the 23rd, and the 30th at the Public Safety Training Center.

And just as a reminder, even if you can't make Ready Carol, it is one of the options that you have. You can always go online. We have a Facebook page. We share a lot of preparedness information. There's a lot of information at ready.gov, which is the national level. That's a DHS and FEMA website. But basically, we want to make sure that people remember they need to make a plan. right for their family, just a little bit of planning. Jacob mentioned it doesn't take large actions, but small actions over time really make a difference. Make sure that especially if you have folks in your family or or even in your community, maybe a next door neighbor, you can help them learn or prepare You can save some money on putting a preparedness kit together, right? So if something's on sale, canned goods are on sale at the store, buy one, get one free, or a reduced rate, do it a little bit at a time. This week, buy some water. Next week, buy some canned food. You can do it a little bit at a time, and it's not as much of a lift. But those small actions really do make a really big difference when we have a community-wide event or even a smaller neighborhood level event. And if you have medical needs, if you rely on any type of medical equipment that requires electricity, make sure you're thinking about ahead of time, how am I going to power that equipment if I don't have commercial power? And there's a lot of resources out there that are available. I mean, you can go out to the Internet and just do a Google search for battery-operated power supplies. There's probably literally a million hits that you'll get if you go out to Google and do that. but look at your particular situation look at you know and think about what you would do if you didn't have water or if you didn't have power or both we talked about water and power a lot because they are prop and food obviously but those are the things that you really need to think about how am I going to get through two or three days without having those items in place with my family and then you take the steps to prepare for those and don't forget your pets and don't forget that

Very well said, and I want to say thank you to you and everybody for what you do for us anyways, but also thank you for coming in to do this every month. I think it really is important that we are prepared. And the other interesting thing about it, too, and we've seen it with previous storms as well, when you're prepared, or disasters for that matter, whether they're manmade or whether they're natural, if you're prepared, that means you're not taking away from emergency services. But the other aspect of it, too, in our county, and we see it every time that there's an issue. You have people, civilians, stepping up to help with operations. And so it's when you're prepared to take care of yourself, you're also prepared to help other people as well. So thank you very much for the reminder every year that this is important. Any other comments?

Just thank you.

Thank you for your support.

Thank you. Photograph? Yeah, let's do it. I think we can go down four.

You're okay. I'm not.

You're going to take this from me.

Forget the lens.

All right. Up next on our agenda, item number two, contract renewal for Evolve Software Project Docs Registered Trademark ePlan SAAS. SAS. SAS. It's called SAS? SAS. It is SAS.

The Office of Procurement and Cooperation with the Department of Technology Services requests your approval to renew the contract with Evolve Software for Project Doc's ePlan software as a service in the amount of $84,445.80. This renewal amount is approved in the FY27 adopted budget.

Good morning, commissioners. Good morning. Project DOCS is an electronic plan review system that streamlines the process of plan submission, review, approval, and tracking. The electronic plan review enables better compliance with regulatory requirements and facilitates quick access to relevant information. The electronic plan submission and review allows internal reviewers, citizen customers, and all additional stakeholder and approval agencies to secure access to plans, documents, and stored data in a way that lets them work together more efficiently, exercise control, and leverage the value of the information they interact with. That's the value of the software for the county.

Awesome. Well, thank you very much. Are there any questions, comments, or direction from the board?

Move the Board of Commissioners to renew the contract with Evolve Software for Project Docs E-Plan SAS in the amount of $84,445.80.

have a motion do we have a second second we have a motion we have a second is there any further discussion um semi off the subject but um we had carol media here and they complimented uh gary davis who has been big with the connectivity between much of the county i want to thank you guys kind of before you um that was the i.t here played a big part of that and uh It's not easy, but you've done well maintaining it. So thank you.

Thank you very much, Commissioner.

We have a motion. We have a second. Is there any other discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right. Up next, item number three, exercise option to purchase through Ag Land Preservation in the State Program or MALF, the Aloha Farm LLC for Karen Hecht and Gregory Eden and Edward Harrison and Jill Turner. Good morning to you both.

Good morning. Good morning. Good morning, commissioners. Good to see everybody this morning. OK. I forget which one it is.

We'll just go there.

Good morning again. We're here before you today to talk about the Maryland Ag Land Preservation Foundation FY27 cycle approval of applications. And these are the ones that have not been approved prior. Um, qualifications for the mouth program, 50% class one, two and three soils, at least 50 acres, unless you're adjacent to an already preserved farm and you have to have a minimum of one lot right to retire. Um, so all the applicants, all the farms are ranked using land evaluation and site assessment scoring. Um, at the state we'll use traditional appraisals to appraise the properties, uh, 40% cost share through an annual bond funding of 1.3 million from the county. So this year we sent down 682 acres total to be preserved to mouth a total of 14 farms. Five were critical farms and already received approval. Six did not receive offers or rejected their offer and are reapplying with last year's cycle approval. Today we're seeking approval for three properties, which the advisory board approved on June 10th, 2026. The first farm is Aloha Farm LLC, located at 7433 Woodbine Road in Woodbine, Maryland. The property is 102.54 acres with 82.9% qualifying soils and is located in the Ag Zone. We're retiring five lot rights in District 4. this is how the farm sits among other easements in the area. Uh, once again, we're requesting final approval with the, for the mouth program for Aloha farm, 74 33 Woodbine road, 102.54 acres with 82.9% qualifying soils in the ag zone, retiring five lights lot rights in district four.

Any comments, questions, or direction from the board?

How do, uh, How do you decide whether it's a mouth easement or not? Does the landowner request a certain one? Do you decide it? Does your board decide it? How does that decision made?

So sometimes the landowner will request a certain program. Sometimes it may depend on their location or money that's available. There's a lot of different factors that can go into that.

OK, thanks.

Sure. Any other comments, questions, or direction from the Board?

Move the Board of Commissioners grant final approval for the Aloha Farms LLC property to participate in the MALF program. Second.

We have a motion, we have a second. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Commissioners. The second farm we have today is the Edward Harrison and Jill Turner Farm, located at 3001 Flagmarsh Road in Mount Airy. The farm is 111.43 acres with 71.3% qualifying soils in the Ag Zone. We're retiring eight lot rights from this farm. It's also in District 4. This is how the farm is located related to other farms that are in preservation. And again, we're here today requesting final approval for the mouth program, the Edward Harrison and Jill Turner Farm, 3001 Flag Marsh Road in Mount Airy, 111.43 acres, 71.3% qualifying soils in the Ag Zone, retiring eight lot rights in District 4.

Any comments, questions, or direction from the board?

Move the Board of Commissioners grant final approval for the Edward Harrison and Jill Turner property to participate in the MALF program. Second.

We have a motion, we have a second. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much.

Thank you again, commissioners. Our last farm for the mouth program is the Karen Hecht and Gregory Eaton property, located at 5701 Bethel Road in Woodbine, 25.21 acres, 62% qualifying soils is located in the conservation zone, retiring seven lot rights, and this is also located in District 4.

Do you count... qualifying soils in within trees, or is that one of the reasons this one's 62%? Because there is, there is a fair amount amount of trees on this site.

Um, it can, the trees really don't have anything to do with it. So it's just the underlying soils. Okay. Uh, yes, sir. So sometimes, uh, we can get into the Woodland groups if they need extra souls to qualify. Um, this farm did not need us to do that. So, okay. probably just more class four soils down in that area. Um, so once again, we're requesting final approval for the mouth program for Karen Hecht and Gregory Eaton farm, uh, located 5,701 Bethel road and would bind 25.2, one acres, 62% qualifying soils located in the conservation zone, retiring seven lot rights in district four.

Move the Board of Commissioners grant final approval for the Karen Heck and Gregory Eaton property to participate in the MALF program. Second.

We have a motion, we have a second. Is there any further discussion?

I'll just mention I appreciate JP and Jackie, your work on these particular properties i know these things take some time and uh appreciate all your work to extend some of the ag pres down to that southwestern part of the county thank you very much for all your efforts we're glad to get the applications really so uh i think we have a few more different places so good thank you yeah i like seeing all the color together it makes it good yeah it's not everybody always wants to do it but it's nice to see them we do too thank you

Any other comments or questions? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner. Appreciate that.

Up next, item number four, exercise option to purchase of the Rural Legacy Program, conservation easement on the Jacob B. Fisher and Mary G. Fisher property.

All right, here we go again. The Rural Legacy Program is 100% funded by state grant funds from the Department of Natural Resources. We have two rural legacy areas, the Little Pipe Creek Rural Legacy Area on the western side of the county and the Upper Patapsco Rural Legacy Area on the eastern side of Carroll County. That's a points-based appraisal evaluation. There are no soils qualifications, and we can accommodate small or large farms with this program. Today, we're working with Jacob Fisher and Mary Fisher, his wife. The property is located in the Upper Patapsco Rural Legacy area at 2200 Fairmount Road in Hampstead. It's 140.905 acres. We're retiring eight lot rights from the property. The fair market value of the land only was $1,474,201.54 per the Rural Legacy points-based appraisal. The cost of the easement will be $1,031,941.08, which equates to $7,323.67 per acre, which is 70% of the fair market value. And this, again, is 100% state grant funds. Here's how the farm fits in with other preserved farms in the area. I'm going to start someplace. Picture across the farm. Beautiful. So once again, we're requesting final approval for the Jacob B. Fisher and Mary G. Fisher property, located at 2200 Fairmount Road in Hampstead, 140.905 acres, retiring eight lot rights at a cost of $1,031,941.08, which are all state grant funds. Any comments, questions, or direction from the board?

Do you know, uh, did they buy the entire property? Mr. Fisher did buy the height tower property all the way to hoods road. And, and I know, uh, they got there before the winter and cooperated with hoods road on their snow fence. They they're already good neighbors.

Good.

Good.

Yeah.

Did you want to make, I can, since, since this is the only one not in district four, um, I moved the board of County commissioners exercise the option to purchase a Royal legacy program, conservation easement on the Jacob B. Fisher and Mary G. Fisher property in the amount of 1,000,031,941 dollars and eight cents.

We have a motion. Is there a second? Second. We have a motion and a couple of seconds. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you both very much.

Thank you, Commissioner. Appreciate your time. Thank you.

Thank you for yours. All right.

Thank you, guys. Yep. Take care.

All right. Up next, item number five, grant approval to submit application and acceptance of award for maintenance training for green stormwater infrastructure. Good morning to you both.

Good morning.

Good morning.

So we are here this morning to ask your permission to submit and accept a grant should it be awarded from the Chesapeake Bay Trust Outreach and Restoration Grant Program. We are looking to sponsor the Chesapeake Bay Landscape Professionals Level 1 Class on Green Infrastructure Training. The Chesapeake landscape professionals presented at one of our county trainings recently, just an overview of the services that they offered. And we felt it would be a very beneficial training to have here in the county, both for county employees, municipal employees, as well as some private sector employees. So we are applying for grant funds, $25,000 to host a two day training. for up to 45 attendees that will be trained on stormwater best management practices, how to maintain those, the importance of them, and what they provide. The hope is that as we have a variety of stormwater practices throughout the landscape, It's not a one size fits all maintenance routine that needs to be done on those. And it'll help staff identify those maintenance needs when they come to a stormwater best management practice.

So this is a two day conference seminar, for lack of a better word. Are these like two 12 hour days? Because if they are, I'm going to recommend Tim Burke represent the county at this.

It's eight hours, two eight-hour days.

Two eight, you can do that, Sam, right? Two eight-hour days?

Yeah.

Lunch and breakfast.

Is this classroom or field or a combination?

So it's our hope that we can offer the training out at Wakefield Valley so that we can have a combination of classroom and then with the park setting there, look at the BMPs that they have on site.

Very good. Awesome.

Any other comments, questions, or direction from the board?

Move the Board of County Commissioners approve the submittal of the grant application and acceptance of award to the Chesapeake Bay Trust Outreach and Restoration Grant Program for the Maintenance Training for Green Stormwater Infrastructure. Second.

We have a motion. We have a second. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

All right. Up next, item number six, grant an approval to submit application and acceptance of award for willow pond replanting.

So in November of 2022, the county worked with the city of Westminster to plant trees in the area of the Willow Pond Stormwater Management Facility. Since the tree planting, some areas of the planting have struggled to survive. The Department of Natural Resources was the funder of the original tree planting, and they have since let us know that they have supplemental funding to help ensure the survivability of tree plantings and other projects that they provide funding to. So we would like to apply to replant an acre, working with the city of Westminster to identify the trees to get replanted. to ensure the survivability and long-term maintenance of this area to establish a forest in the end around the stormwater management facility.

Was there anything specific that affected the trees the first round?

So I think some of the types of trees that were planted did not do well in that upland setting. And then deer pressure is a natural force that the trees have to fight against. the new public works director at the city of Westminster. We have met out there with her and her staff, and she has some ideas for varieties that she would like to incorporate in this replanting of the area. Then we'll also ensure that we have taller tree tubes on there and that maintenance between the contractor that plants the trees and the city is done in a manner to help ensure long term survivability here.

Thank you. Move the Board of Commissioners approve the submittal of the grant application acceptance of award to the Department of Natural Resources Adaptive Management Program for the Willow Pond Replanning.

Second. We have a motion. We have a second. Is there any other discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you so much. Thank you both very much. All right. Up next, item number seven, request to amend the Carroll County FY2027 program open space annual program for the town of Manchester.

Good morning, Commissioner.

Good morning, Bob.

Good morning. So I'm here before you this morning. Back in June, the board approved our annual program for FY2027. Since which time the town of Manchester wanted to change their program, that was in the original approved one in June. And they wanted to update that, their refurbishment for the Christmas Tree Park Pond refurbishment. And it's the same amount of money. It's just they wanted to go ahead and update their scope of what they were going to work on. So I wanted to bring that before the board to go ahead and get approval to go ahead and amend our annual program for FY27.

Any comments, questions, or direction from the board?

I just have a question about open space money in general. So the towns get their own open space money, and then we get open space money. How does that work?

So we get an allocation for each of the fiscal years. Of the county's allocation, 25% of it goes to four of the municipalities, and they alternate that every other year.

And then are they able to apply for other special? There are certain things I know they can apply for special, but how's that different from that county?

Well, they're eligible for community parks and playgrounds. That's only for municipalities they can apply for that.

And I think they're very good about applying for that stuff.

Yeah, that's more competitive, though. For community parks and playgrounds, it's very competitive.

I know our county, they've always been, at least most of them, very aggressive in going after that money and done a lot with it.

Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. Any other comments, questions, or direction from the board?

Move that the Board of County Commissioners approve an amendment to the FY 2027 program open space annual program for the town of Manchester, changing the project scope from a new pavilion to resurfacing the existing tennis courts with a pickleball overlay and pond refurbishment at Christmas Tree Park and Piney Valley Park.

Second. We have a motion to be the second. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much, Bob.

Thank you. Before we start the next subject, I'll get with you, but I actually got a voicemail early this morning from Hampstead Lions about Leicester Park and the pickleball there and them talking about wanting to coordinate. So I'll look at it, talk to him, but I'll throw it in your lap. OK. Thank you.

All right. Up next, item number eight, we will move into the work session for recreation and parks field restoration.

Good morning, Commissioner. Good morning. Good morning.

We're going to have little handouts for you. Homework.

Homework, huh?

Thank you.

That doesn't sound very recreational. Thank you.

Is that this? No, it's different than this? No.

All right. Well, thank you for carving out time for us today. We do have a presentation for you. And I will.

Hold up the screen.

Is Chris going to pull it up, or is it on there? It should be on the bottom. There it is. Yeah, there we go. OK, everyone can see that? Everybody hear me OK? So we're here today to kind of want to give you an overview of the relationship that the Department of Recreation and Parks has with our local recreation councils. I'll go over it fairly quickly. I think you guys probably have already seen it. And then we will get into the big question with the fields. So you can see our mission up there, connecting people, parks, and programs in support of a strong, healthy community and natural environment. So why we're here, Carroll County Department of Recreation and Parks. And go to the next screen.

Yeah, there you go.

And our recreation councils have a long history of working together to provide quality recreation opportunities for our communities. As recreation needs continue to evolve, we need to assess our current model, identify challenges, and explore opportunities for improvement. So the desired outcome is a clear understanding of where we are today, the challenges we face, and how we can create a stronger, more sustainable recreation system. So our vision, we're committed to enhancing the quality of life, promoting a sense of community, facilitating lifelong learning for all ages and abilities and encouraging an appreciation of the natural environment and local history. So our philosophy of the department, we believe that recreation and leisure pursuits contribute to the overall happiness, wellbeing, and quality of life for citizens of Carroll County. We are committed to preserving and protecting our natural and historical resources, and we will strive to provide quality opportunities within the constraints of our available resources. So that next slide, slide four, is just kind of a broad overview of our organizational chart. So as you know, the director reports up to the Board of County Commissioners. And underneath the director, we have two divisions, Division of Recreation and the Division of Parks. And underneath the Division of Parks, we have our community parks, Hat Bigger Firearms Facility, Hoshua and Bear Branch, and Piney Run Park. And then underneath the park side, we have three recreation councils. We have the Carroll County Question Council, we have the Friends of Oshawa Bear Branch Council, and then the Pioneer Run Park Council. So then underneath the Division of Recreation, we have the Sports Complex, Charles Carroll Community Center, Community Recreation, and Adaptive Recreation. Also underneath the Division of Recreation rests all the other volunteer recreation councils. And we have eight youth recreation councils. And then we also have community coordinators. Six, actually five, part-time community coordinators. And then off to the side, you'll see the Friends of Carroll Recreation and Parks. And they report to the division, which reports up to the department.

So you said five community coordinators?

Five part-time.

Five part-time. So they share some rec councils?

No. And I'll get into that in a minute. Thank you.

Sorry.

That's OK. So if you look at the next slide, slide five. So the eight volunteer rec councils, each of those, as well as the ones that are under the parks, all have their 501c3, and they all have to have an elected executive board. And then underneath that, they have program chairs or coordinators. Those are the boots on the ground. Those are the people out there coordinating the many volunteers that we have. Then we have the volunteers, and then we have the program participants. Now the Friends of Carroll Recreational Parks are their own 501c3. existed before our rec councils were required to become a 501 . So that served as a mechanism for fundraising for the rec councils before they were required to become their own 501 . So the history, under the Maryland Annotated Code, county governing bodies are authorized to establish volunteer groups to support recreational parks programs. And that's where the Board of Commissioners came in, authorized these rec councils to exist. So we have 11 community recreation councils serving their local communities throughout the county. This year, in FY26, we had 3,196 volunteers. And those aren't positions. Those are strictly volunteers. So one of those people could be serving multiple roles within a rec council. Eight are youth-focused. And then we have Pioneer Run Park, the Friends of Poshwell Bear Branch, the Equestrian Council. And then in 1995, that's when the Friends group was formed. It was originally formed as the Carroll Association of Recreation Councils. And then in 1999, it was renamed the Friends of Carroll Recreation and Parks. And then if you look at the overview on page seven, So we have our 11 councils. Five have an extra part-time position. Those five are Winfield Rec Council, Westminster Area Rec Council, Central Carroll Recreation Council, North Carroll Recreation Council, and did I say Central? I said Winfield? Central, North. West Carroll has one. So those are the five that have the extra part-time position. And then as you know, the Board of County Commissioners appoint the Recreation and Parks Advisory Board. They serve as a four-year term, and they help advise the department, which then helps advise the Recreation Council. So that's kind of like the flow chart. Anybody have any questions before I move on? Commissioner Kyler, did that answer your question?

Yeah, and holler if you're going to cover it. So the Rec and Parks Advisory Board, they evaluate capital projects. They evaluate self-help projects. Self-help projects are funded all by us. And self-help is more money than us.

Yes.

OK. 80%?

80%. 80% is funded by the.

And then the council comes up with the remainder.

Oh, yeah. But it's no open space money. The open space money is all capital projects and acquiring property. And they do a five-year plan evaluating that or?

For, you mean the advisory board?

Capital projects, yeah.

We go each year, four of them. Usually that's in the July time frame, where we're going to be bringing up for the following year.

OK. Thank you.

OK. You're most welcome. I just had a question about staffing. So how do you determine staffing? I just noticed they're different. So is it by how many people they serve, how many programs? How is that determined?

So originally, when this was prior to me, I believe all of the rec councils had a part-time position. And as things changed and needs changed and the processes changed, for example, they used to have to drive around and deliver flyers to schools, get use of facility forms signed. There's a lot more involved than you see today where everything's electronic. So the department determined that there was not a need to have each of these part-time positions with each of the councils. So as positions changed, somebody left, they just weren't filled and were taken on by the role of a full-time position. Does that answer your question?

Well, I just was looking. It seemed like there's 11. You said there were 11. One, two, three, four. So they all have a part-time and a full-time.

They all have a full time, and only five have a part time.

So why is the only one that doesn't have a part time is Freedom. That's the biggest.

We were having a difficult time filling that position as a part-time position. We recently just combined it with another part-time position, so they will be getting a full-time person to work with that council. And you're right, they are our largest council.

Well, that's why I was wondering. I guess we've sort of been waiting for the allocation, the report about numbers of people in the programs. Is that going to come?

That's today.

Oh, that's this. OK. So I didn't know if it was based on that, because there are a lot of different. You have different volumes of people to take care of. That's why I didn't know if you based it on volume or you based it just on everybody gets the same thing, no matter what the volume. OK.

Right. Does that answer everything right now?

You add? Yes.

OK. Great. Thank you.

And then historically, and you mentioned it a little bit, they had a lot more duties. Some of the individual rec councils were supplementing the pay for some of them. The county was paying them, and some of the individual rec councils actually paid them something, too. And I don't think that's happening anymore. I don't believe that's happening anymore. Because you've beefed it up.

Either. Yeah. I don't believe that's happening anymore. OK, if there are some more questions right now, I will move on. So our role as the department, recognizing that volunteer organizations join together for the common interest of providing recreational-based activities to their local community, we provide priority usage to the Carroll County Public Schools and their facilities. We permit the use of county fields and county facilities. We provide the ability to apply for self-help grant funding, which is supported by the Board of County Commissioners, provide direction and assistance in the operation of the Recreation Council, provide basic mowing of the recreational parks fields, and we pay for electric use at any of the park sites. So the volunteer rec councils provide many, many benefits to the citizens of Carroll County. The biggest benefit, I think, to having these volunteer-run-based programs is the reduced cost to taxpayers due to limiting paid staff to oversee programs and facilities. They have the direct involvement of citizens, which they would not be able to do the programming that they do without the many, many volunteers that they have. They're able to use community-raised funds for projects and ensure that they stay within that local community. And then they provide the financial resources and volunteers necessary to support the successful operation and the delivery of their program. So Recreation Council goals and objectives. So all citizens in Carroll County who meet the basic program registration requirements have a right to participate, offer recreational opportunities at a reasonable cost. And I kind of want to highlight the recreational opportunities, because that goes back to one of our philosophies. of recreation and leisure opportunities tie into the overall happiness and well-being of citizens. So that recreational aspect is extremely important. Recruit volunteers who can act as role models, mentors, and facilitators. Programs, practice games, and other events should be enjoyable, challenging, and a learning experience. Volunteer coaches, referees, and others in leadership position shall lead by example through the promotion of fair play and good sportsmanship. And programs should always focus on the enjoyment of the sport and not the score or winning. And I know that's sometimes hard because a lot of competitive people out there.

There's a question on this slide. Yeah. So the first one says all citizens in Carroll County who meet the . How do we do it? Some of these councils have people from other counties playing. How do you prioritize the Carroll County citizens versus somebody from the other counties? He runs on the border. I mean, I know Mount Airy has some overflow, and I know we have some.

I'm going to give you an analogy that our previous director, Jeff Daggett, always used when we talked about our local recreation councils. So he always said that we give them the framework. It's like we give them the house. And it's up to them how they decide they're going to paint it or what they're going to put in the house. So we've never told them how to operate their program, what programs to run. when they should be running them. We've always let that be determined by the local area and the local area needs. Now, I will say that for the department, when we go out and do community recreation, we open our registration two weeks prior to anybody that is outside of Carroll County. We've not made that a requirement. You said outside of Carroll. Outside of Carroll County. You do two weeks prior. So Carroll County residents have two weeks before anybody outside. So they have priority to register for programs. We've never made that a requirement of the recreation council.

Do we have a problem that some folks can't get in? I just thought I remember at one of your events somebody was having a challenge. Because Mount Airy is part in Carroll and part in Frederick County. And we want to make sure that. The Carroll County citizens all have a chance to have an opportunity.

I can speak to the fact that we've recently required any program that is a part of a rec council that is not a true county rec council program to sign an MOU. And we have several out there that are their own 501c3s. And they are part of the rec council, so they can get use of fields and use of school facilities. Mount Air Youth Athletic Association is one of them. And they've signed an MOU, which took effect in September, that they had to open registrations to county residents first before they opened them to outside organizations.

Unless they want to share some fields in Frederick County. We have the opposite problem. We don't have enough fields, so our kids are going to Howard County. And I guess they've got plenty to welcome us, because I don't know that people are getting turned away.

Well, and I do know that they have to pay for those fields in Frederick County. They don't get them for free. Well, they should. May is not getting them for free.

So their citizens come in and use our fields, and we don't charge them extra, but we have to pay to use their fields? It seems like if we're going to open registration to their folks, it's usually higher registration to cover what we have to get their fields for.

I see what you're saying, where you are. As a resident of Mount Airy myself, I live off of Main Street. I'm a Frederick County resident. Right across the street is a Carroll County resident. It's very difficult down there in the Mount Airy community, because there's four counties that come in and merge there.

I'm just suggesting that if you If we're going to welcome those folks in, they shouldn't charge us for the fields. Anyway, that's up to them, but we're going to make sure.

Well, and I think that also comes down to perhaps the cost of doing business. So if Mount Airy knows that, hey, I'm going to have to pay extra to rent these fields or rent these gym space, then unfortunately that's passed on to the user, the person who's participating in the program. So it's part of the budget.

We don't charge for our gym space. That's what I'm saying. We don't charge. I understand what you're saying.

It's a tricky thing. It is. It's very tricky and very sensitive.

I don't know about the rec councils, but I do know in Howard County they have a resident discount, they call it, for the adult. I know we have a lot of people that play pickleball that come from Howard County and Baltimore County. But in Howard County, you look up their places. First of all, they're more expensive. But they call it a discount, which is charging people out of county more. They have a discount for in county.

They do it.

They have to do it kind of opposite than we do. Well, it's always better to call something a discount. You get a discount.

Then they'll charge a charge.

Frederick County has the same problem with that as well, because using all the facilities, but they have to pay as well.

No, you understand what I'm saying. I just think you've got to make sure that we've got limited space. And if they're going to charge us for it, you want to make sure that we're getting some equity. Equity back. It shouldn't be for the student necessarily, but maybe it would incentivize the county We don't have to charge them. We're in some ways accounting to not have to charge us for the fields.

And I will say that generally speaking, I believe that if you are looking at the recreational opportunities, the ones that aren't the club sports or the highly competitive programs, those kids are going to be playing where their friends are. So they're going to be playing with their friends that they go to school with. So I think you're looking at perhaps the higher level club sports or those other program opportunities and offerings from the rec councils where you may be getting out of county participants coming in based on the level of the team. Or maybe even the program's not being offered somewhere, and we're the only place where they can get it. Rugby comes to mind. I don't know a lot of.

It's a new sport everybody's playing. Girls are playing, I think, too.

All right. Slide 11, I believe, is where we are. So volunteer recreation council governance and structure. Recreation councils are directed by the Department of Recreation and Parks, which follow guidelines from risk management and the county attorney. They have to have established bylaws and have an elected board, establish membership and voting requirements, establish procedures to amend their constitution and their bylaws, follow their approved meeting dates, times, and locations. These are all open meetings. Anybody from the community is able to participate in these meetings. And the executive board must approve all new programs or extensions of programs. And that last bullet point is, in my opinion, critical because that board, that rec council, knows what space they have, what space they have available, and how bringing in something new may impact. So I have an example. We had a softball program that was their traditional spring sport and they wanted to move to year-round so they started advertising and taking registrations for a year-round sport not realizing that football was in the outfield in the fall and then at the last minute they're scrambling trying to find space had these discussions been talked about internally within the RET Council, they probably could have figured out, you know, how to mitigate that and probably share the space or realize, oh, wait, you know, we don't have our normal fields. We're going to have to figure out where else we're going to need to go. So risk management compliance. So a full-time employee. is required to attend the recreation council meetings. All council volunteers who have contact with youth, handle money, or hold a board position must undergo an annual background check. Volunteer training will require every three years for program chairs, coordinators, or board members. And those are the ones that I call that are out there leading other volunteers. If you imagine you have a coordinator that's coordinating soccer and they have 20 adult parent volunteers, that coordinator needs to go through the training, not the 20 adult volunteer parents that are just coaching, so that they understand all the requirements, such as accident reporting and the heat index, daily heat index information that goes out and those types of things. They have to review, and this is self-paced, child abuse, neglect training, concussion management, stop the bleeding, hands-only CPR. Those are online courses. It takes five to 10 minutes to watch a video. If they want to get trained, they have the ability to get a first aid and CPR AED training through the department. They have to sign and abide by the code of conduct. That's for volunteers and the parents. The volunteers need to sign the county waiver and then inspect the equipment fields and facilities before they're used to make sure it is safe for their participants. So use of facilities. Let me go back to, oh, this is the one. So use of facilities. If you want to look at section one in your folder, You'll see the Carroll County Department of Recreation and Parks priority use of school facilities among recreation councils. And then behind it, you'll see what we call the home schools and facilities. So those are the facilities that are assigned to each recreation council. So each recreation council and program must work through their assigned community coordinator or their full-time liaison to request use of facilities. And that's because I don't know if Mrs. Smith, volunteer coach for a basketball program, what council she may work with. So it needs to go through the proper channels to request that. Council programs are assigned to their local facilities, which is that document. Council programs will secure private facilities. So department staff will not help them get any private facilities. So if they're renting private facilities, they'll need to schedule that and then make arrangements for rental payment. And then each council is responsible for managing all aspects of its programs in a safe, effective, and responsible manner.

Can I ask you a question about some of these? Yes. So on these schools, they're obviously all different. I know there's some that have. Childcare. They do daycare. Correct. And they use their gym, so they can't get in.

After school programming. Yeah.

So how do you balance that out? Let's say basketball season. How do you know if there's really availability for the programs for the council? Because if the school has daycare, and let's say the daycare lasts until 6.30 instead of 6, or I don't know the timing, but you haven't done this for so long. I don't have long practice. Let's say practice is an hour. So how does that work?

So Carroll County Public Schools have priority use of their own facilities. So they moved to an online scheduling process. It's called Event Manager. And anybody from the community can go on and see the forward-facing calendar at any school and see what is scheduled in that school during that day, time of week, be it inside or on the fields. So once the school system gets their usage into that calendar, we have deadlines on when we have to request our space by. And it's either approved or denied based on the availability of space. So if there's an after-school program and they're in a gym until 5.30, 6 o'clock, we're not going to be able to start until 6.15, 6.30. We also find that, especially in the elementary schools, that if there is, let's say, there's a performance on a stage or in the auditorium, it may be affecting parking at the facility. So we're blacked out because they have a program going on in the school, and the gym may not may not be used, but there's no place for our participants to park to get into the facility. So we run into that. And as well as, I don't know if you've heard about the Whittle equipment that travels through the elementary school. So it is this gym contraption that takes a while to put up. So it goes in a gym. It's there for two weeks. And then it's taken down and moved to another school for two weeks. And we can get the calendar from Carroll County Public Schools, but it hits every elementary school. And generally speaking, I believe it affects the same rec councils yearly, because that's when they're scheduled. So for example, Central Carroll, every winter they get it. It's not like the school is saying, OK, Sandy Mountain had it this winter. Let's put it at a Freedom School.

They don't rotate?

It rotates around, but I don't think they rotate seasonally. Does that make sense what I'm saying?

What I'm trying to figure out is if, this just came to my attention, that certain schools have daycare, I guess, are they for-profit daycares, that they actually get the space and they

Yeah, I can't answer that. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe you're right. I don't believe the schools are running it. I think they've contracted it out.

So obviously, we need the schools for these practices. And if they're not available at different times, let's say one's available at 6, but this one has a contract till 630. Is there any way that we can make sure that there is similarity between schools when they're doing the, I don't know if the school system does the contract or if the actual school does it, because from what I'm understanding, it shortens the time, the amount of practice time that they have available to school because they're different. So this elementary school might stay at 6.30, this might stay at 6, because they want to have time to clear out, and if they could just maybe get them out of the gym and say, hey, can you go stand? If somebody's late picking them up, they still hold up the gym. So they can't schedule it. So it'd be nice if we could have some discussion with the school system to make sure that they at least realize that the council can impact on the council. The impact that they're having. And if they're only, you know, if they could just get them out of there by six and then you could have.

Or even if, you know, they move to the cafeteria where they're not in the gym and they're doing board games or something where, you know, they don't have to have that open space running.

Especially in the wintertime when they're doing basketball, whatever the schedules are. Right. But I just think. there should be an opportunity to have a discussion with them about they're holding up the whole gym for a handful of kids because they haven't been picked up yet and they can't schedule a practice. So then you can only get two teams in one hour and then If you do it too late for elementary school kids, it's past their bedtime. So you have a very short window. And that's a concern that I've heard that it seems to be different. And maybe they're not aware of it. And if the school system will be aware of it and say, hey, you can only be here until, I'm making the number up. I'm not sure if it's six or not. But it would be some consistency so that they could get their full schedule. They'd have equal time in all the schools that supposedly are assigned to them.

Right, I can certainly have that discussion with the Board of Education or my contact with Carroll County Public Schools.

They would just be cognizant of that. And if it's possible, if it's just a handful of kids in there, that they could ask them to go to the cafeteria or go just sit in the lobby for the last 15 minutes so that they could actually have their full allotment of time.

I can certainly do that.

Any other questions on that slide? The only reason I'm asking that is because I found out, and I've been out of the rec leagues for many, many years, but when I hear some of these costs that these parents are paying to play basketball because we have to rent space. I go to church, $185 for registration. I used to be like 15, but I'm dating myself. But $185 seemed like a lot. And if you have two kids, that's a lot of money because they have to rent space. For rec, we should be able to provide space. And if we can free up some of the, I'm not sure how much it is, but if we can free up some of that elementary space and let the practices be.

And it really should only be the elementary schools where the after school is happening.

Yes.

OK.

Thanks.

The next slide is just one. I'm not going to go into details. This is just one, again, inventory, just in a different view. So it's kind of chunked so you can see the REC Council and the number of sites that they have. One thing to note, there are some shared sites with other rec councils. Linton Springs Community Room is a shared space at Linton Springs Elementary School. Linton Springs Elementary School is shared between Winfield Recreation Council and Freedom Recreation Council. I will say that they share the fields, but the gym use at Linton Springs is 100% Winfield. Another shared facility is Century High School, and that is shared between both Winfield and Freedom Area Rec Council. And then we have Pars Ridge Elementary School in Mount Airy, which is shared by Woodbine Rec Council, which is where Mount Airy Youth Athletic Association resides, and the Winfield Recreation Council. I'd also like to say that the high schools with the programs that they have, we do get limited space in the gyms and in the high school and on their playing fields, basically because of the programs that they have that they're running.

On the facilities, in the book, you list Panther Plaques under North Carolina Council. I don't think you have it on the slide.

Thank you. Thank you for pointing that out. So the Pantherplex, as you all know, was the North Carroll High School, and it was sold. And we had an agreement to pay rental usage for the North Carroll Rec Council for five years. So we are coming up on, we've paid or four and a half years so the end of this calendar year not fiscal year but the end of this calendar year should be the end of that that payment period so if the north carol rec council is going to continue to utilize that space they will need to to pay for it and rent it and that'll be under private that that would then be under private straight it anymore the the council has to The council has been organizing it. We've just been paying that bill.

And it's confusing. And unfortunately, they had it sold and that fell through. Actually, the group forfeited their deposit. They're ready to try to sell it again. But in theory, the agreement will be up before. Because I was worried, does that agreement pass to a new owner? and uh but that's yeah it's only half a year left it's probably not an issue and then uh you list uh leicester park which doesn't really have much facilities it's it's a park but it's more of a passive and pickle bell

So Leicester Park does have one multipurpose field. But because of the regulations and the access and the availability of parking, it cannot be used for competition. So it can only be used for practice. And I will say that North Carroll has started using that space. They've realized that they need that space. And I'm not 100% sure if it's because they're not using the Pantherplex. I'm not sure the Pantherplex kept those fields up and usable.

Not really.

I do think that they were mostly using the gym space.

Their original intention was to upgrade those fields. I'm hoping a new owner maybe wants to do that, but the current owner isn't interested in field use. People walk the track. And when Ron Schroers was there, they had some football games and all in a stadium, and he focused on a little more. Of course, he's been gone for a few years. So, yeah, it's private, but like you say, it was a past commissioner's put a...

put an agreement in right so it's coming coming to the end okay thank you if you want to turn to section two this is just another inventory of the inventory of county fields that is separated by what are multi-purpose fields and what are baseball softball or what Our rec councils have identified as small sided multipurpose fields, meaning you can't have like a 11 v 11 soccer game on it. But you could have little kid clinic preschool or grade school kids playing on it. And then also shows the lighted fields that each council may have at their disposal. And there are not very many lighted fields out there. So of course, the lighted fields would allow extended use a grass field versus when the sun goes down. And that's just something you guys can look at at some point in time if you have any questions about that. So the field inventory conditions, we asked the rec councils to come back and give us, and this is in section three, what they thought their fields were. And we also had them rate the Board of Ed fields. So we had them rate them fair, good, poor, or not usable. And as you go through your packet, It's broken out by rec council. And then on the left side shows the parks, the county parks. And then on the right side are the school parks. And it also will show you the size of those fields. So that kind of matches up with that last document that you looked at. And again, just please note that this is not something we went in and evaluated. We asked the councils to evaluate what they thought the conditions of each of their fields were. And I think that will come into play later when we get all the rec councils together.

How does it work when it's a school-owned field and a lot of these school-owned fields look like they're in poor shape? So how do we deal with that when it's a school-owned field?

The school will not do any maintenance on their fields, especially the middle schools and elementary schools, because they're not using it as They're using it as a PE field for physical education. They're not out there using it as a playing field.

Do they allow the rec councils to improve the fields?

They would, yes. But it would be at the rec council's cost.

The original joint use agreement, which was the facility use agreement in the old days, was based on the fact that the rec councils did a lot of improvements at the high schools and the middle schools and therefore that's why they got priority usage and hopefully it's still the same way north carroll high school well every school but man val north carroll rec council has probably rebuilt the fields our joke used to be when they did spring garden they do they do fields for phys ed And then we make them and we even talked to the school system about some. They put up backstops for our softball field that aren't good enough to use for competitive games. So we replaced them and we got to the point that we'd say just don't put a backstop up if you're going to do a minimal one and etc. The self-help projects in the old days did a lot of tot lots. They've gotten, I remember when self-help changed from 15 grand to 25 grand so it could fund a tot lot. Well, it would have to be 150 now. So yeah, they expect them. At North Carroll, we built the dugouts, we did the backstops, we did the ball diamond mix. The AD would call the council and CJ Miller rolled all the fields for free in that area. I'm sure contractors do it in the other areas. and uh and and some of the contractors uh like white pine and hampstead they they'll help with uh ball diamond mix and and grading for a little backstop or something some of that they do free it's it's uh it's it's convoluted but it's back to our volunteers in carroll county what all they do and And if we don't watch it, we're going to develop a hybrid system about like EMS where we've got paid people and paid money. and volunteers competing. You said, and I liked it, you said you do basic mowing. And our joke about that is they mow it once or twice a month, whether it needs it or not. And some programs, which I understand, some of the soccer programs they care whether it's mode on a Monday or Thursday much less that week you know and and so they do it themselves right and and uh some of them even pay volunteers somebody else another contractor or volunteers will just you know give in kind contributions and the local rec councils probably pay for all the spot-a-pots

We, the county, will put out two Spotted Pots, a regular one and a handicap unit for the general park users. If a rec council needs additional ones because they're having games on Saturday or Sunday and a lot of people are coming in the park at once, then they are responsible for putting in any additional that they need. and the same thing if they use a school site and the school correct schools don't unlock no no and and that's a good point because we have to get special permission to bring those into the schools to the school site and sometimes they say no yeah thanks yeah so on the field conditions are there just three categories fair poor and good or is there excellent I didn't see there's not an excellent I guess was that a choice Yes, that we had a discussion.

I just didn't know. So that was a choice, and there's none that are in excellent shape. Well, I'm just saying, from their point of view.

From their point of view, they had the three and then the non-usable.

So non-usable would be under poor.

Correct. Or it's not usable because something happened. Let's say a portable went up at a school and is no longer a field. So there may be different reasons why it's not usable.

all right um the other question on the well this might come later but i know in the high schools that some of them have limited fields and depending on playoffs and stuff sometimes it goes into their season so how do you adjust for that like if you're playing in a lacrosse season and you've got to have a certain field but you can't get it until halfway through the season. How do you count that for a high school field? Because sometimes their seasons go longer because they don't know. Basketball is the same, I guess.

Or terrain, inclement weather, whatever reason. Well, whatever reason.

But how do they plan for that in the rec councils if the county has first choice, but it's unanticipated? What do they do?

The rec councils would have to look for a space elsewhere. So maybe they're not playing in their backyard, but they've either rented a space, they're going to another facility within another rec council.

Sometimes it's unanticipated. Is that an issue of the overlap, or do they just not use those fields?

I'm trying to answer your question. You're asking if they've had a field reserved or permitted, and then the high school comes in and takes it because their season got extended. Is that an example?

Well, it could be. Or do they, I think it was, I'm trying to remember what school it was, I think maybe it was Century, that they can't get onto a certain time. I don't know if the school system holds it out for that time in case, or do they just wait till it happens? You know what I'm saying? How do you plan for that? Or do they just keep their own use of facilities until through their possible length of season? Is it an issue?

It may be an issue that I'm not aware of. I do know that the schools have to have their stuff in Event Manager before our stuff can be approved. And I do know that we have hard deadlines with the schools. to get our information in. And if we haven't gotten our information in, if somebody forgot to put it in, or somebody forgot to request it, after our deadline, the schools can give that to a third priority user, somebody underneath Recreation and Parks. And if that happens, they will not give it back.

And I'm trying to remember, it seemed to me there was a reason that they couldn't use it, because they couldn't get it till the middle of the season. So in other words, it's sort of, I don't know how it counts in here, but it sort of counted as, hey, this is available, but it really wasn't because they used it longer into the season.

Right. And that kind of speaks to what I mentioned earlier. We have more and more difficult time getting on the high school fields just based on their needs.

We just need to keep that in consideration as to what we really have available and what's not. You know what I'm saying? It's not so simple as you know. Right. You definitely know. We're trying to figure out what that looks like. 100%.

All right, if you want to look at.

I think, can you comment a little bit? It used to be spreadsheets. It used to be, was the AD any good or not? But now it's electronic. So does that still have its problems or is it pretty clean, this electronic system?

So if I can be candid, one of the issues I feel we have as the rec council in the department when it comes to the event manager electronic version is that the high schools are not using it. So the high schools are not putting their information on there. The middle schools and elementary schools have their stuff out there. So the high schools, because they manage, my understanding is they manage a different calendar because they're competing with other schools, not just

that they did not want to have to do multiple calendars and and the high schools I'll hear from probably John O'Neill the high schools are poor schedulers period on any events and it's funny copper mine the old tennis place on on 42. that's their biggest headache is that the high schools don't schedule proper use they they've had games have to Stop in the third quarter because they didn't schedule enough, you know, and when I when I asked them copper mine, what's your biggest issue? And they said how the high school schedules, the the wreck, the others, they schedule pretty well. And again, and I think you alluded to this, Commissioner Krebs, when the rec councils have to pay for it, they're serious about it. You know, the high school's not so much, and it's a shame. And I'm curious that... I was hoping that wasn't a problem with the electronics.

It is a challenge just basically, I think, for the high schools, because to us it may look like a softball field is available, but it's not because their team's using it. It's just not on. It may be on their internal calendar, but it's not on the forward-facing calendar for the citizens to see.

Who does that scheduling? Does it all go through the community coordinator, or do individual programs get on that electronic system?

So that goes through the department paid person. So be it the part-time, the five that have a part-time, or the full-time person that's tied to that system.

So if I'm soccer, I need to talk to the community coordinator. One person.

Yep.

I probably don't have the right terms for people, but you're doing well. Contact them and they schedule it.

Yep.

And I think that's key. And we need to make sure that the rec councils are following that model where they're reaching out to the coordinators because it's the only way you're going to figure out who's using what field. So let's make sure that's occurring. And then as far as the high school goes, I mean, I can only imagine the elimination of the AD positions at the high schools probably isn't helping. That situation either, but it sounds like it was already difficult to begin with so the

Coordinators? Paid staff. Yes. Where are they located? Where are they housed?

So the part-time people, the five that we have that are contractual, work from home. We don't provide them any kind of laptop, any phone. It's all done from home. And the full-time staff, they're housed at one of the county locations. So either at the Robert Moten Center or the Charles Carroll Community Center or the Carroll County Sports Complex.

In the district where they?

Yes. Only reason I'm asking.

I don't know if there's any opportunities. I know in Baltimore County, where I came from a long time ago, I think that they have staff, I don't know if they still do it, that is a joint staff in the school. So that same person, I mean, now that we're doing away with that, I used to think it was a shame for the athletic directors that are scheduling things because they were good teachers, too, and you had to take them out of the classroom and put them in an administrative position, losing their teaching talent. But is there any way to have that person help coordinate at the school and be housed there and have them sort of be dual duty so there's one person? I mean, I know they've done it in Baltimore County a long time ago.

I just think Baltimore County might still do that.

It just seemed like it worked very well.

Baltimore County has... an office at most of the schools they have paid people Frederick County had paid people um that that would cost millions of dollars I think did uh did Linton Spring get a rec room it was supposed to yes they have a community they have a community down I think but that's probably the only one that has one

I was just thinking more of the high schools. But just to have someone that would be, I'm not saying putting extra people in, but it's how that person would be used if it would be more efficient. That they were there sort of with hands on with the high school stuff. So they were, I don't know if it's shared. I'm not sure how Baltimore County does it. I don't know if they need extra staff. But if we've got people in each of these areas, I mean, we have five of these coordinators and we have, what, six high schools? It's just a thought to see how we could coordinate and help them and help us and then it's not two different people. Just a thought. How do we do it a little more effectively?

One last thing on the electronic system. I apologize. And then I've got questions at the end on communications. So I'm back. I'm the soccer coordinator. So I got a schedule through the community person, the Rec and Parks person. But I can look at the system. I just can't manipulate it. Correct. But I can look at it. If I want to see what's open or when I have it, I can look.

Right.

Okay.

Now, you could go in and create your own account, but then the school's going to come back, and they're going to ask you for your certificate of insurance, and they're going to ask, you know, and then that's when they go, well, wait a minute, I'm with the rec council. So then they... But generally speaking, and that's why that volunteer training is so important, is because that coordinator, I think that stuff happens with the mom and dad coach. And it may be a teacher. They're just going because they work at that school. And they're like, hey, I know the gym's not being used right now. Can I have it for a practice? recognize, and I do think that, unfortunately, that happens. Not as much now because of the electronic system, but I do think it happened a lot with the paper sign-off. There wasn't as many checks and balances before. If we want to look at section 5, this is just a quick overview of each rec council and the programs that they offer. So what we talked about, oh, wait a minute. I got one more section to go over.

Section four.

Yes, section four. This is the most important one. This is the one, Commissioner Krebs, you talked about. So section four is a list of outdoor sports only. It doesn't include the indoor sports for this discussion today, of what the rec councils reported their usage. So they reported the programs that they have, the number of participants, where they were practicing, and the amount of practices they had per week. I have that listed for each rec council. So you can see the majority of the councils are either practicing only one or two times a week. And then behind each one, you'll see the field map. So each council shows just the county field maps for the Department of Recreation and Parks. I do have the schools not in this packet. But if you want it, I do have it. I can hand it out to you today. But as you leaf through it, you'll see that some programs may have the ability to practice three days a week.

Is that because they have the ability or they want that ability?

They have that ability.

So how do we know what their needs are versus what? So this means, if I looked at a one and looked at a three, do I assume they all want three or do I assume some might just want one?

I think the groups that are having one practice are your younger kids, the clinic kids.

I guess what I'm trying to absorb from all this, what are the needs? Maybe you can come up with that later. Are we satisfying the needs of what each uniformly? If the younger kids practice once a week, are they all getting there once a week? If the older kids practice three times a week, do they all get the opportunity for three times a week? I'm just trying to make sure. We're looking at apples and apples for... whatever it may be. Because you're right, it might be once a week for a younger kid, but it's hard to tell that.

And I think you need to, you know, it's going to be based on the program and the age of the program. You know, the older kids might be practicing two or three times a week.

But if I were to, somehow through all this, we're going to gleam what the needs are in an equitable way. And I want to make sure that the way we claim it is going to be that they see it that way because they agree with our analysis of it.

You know what I'm saying? So, you know what I'm saying?

Hopefully they've all seen this and they've given you the data. This came straight from them. So when we're looking at it, we're just trying to look at it with an equal kind of eye of what their needs are. And if somebody thinks they need five times more, that's unreasonable. If it's all level, you know. Okay.

I think generally speaking, if you drill down and look at the programs, like the football programs are practicing three or four times a week. Your soccer, your field hockey, your baseball teams may only be doing one or two based on the level or the competition level of that, the age or the competition level.

That changes, I guess.

And it could change year to year. They may have five teams that are higher level one year, and the next year they only have two. So it may change based on the registrations from year to year.

And does it change based on who's got lights and not? Because it starts getting dark. Does that have an impact?

It absolutely does. So the fall, it's getting dark early. So starting in August, they may be able to go till 730. But come the end of September, they're off the field by 630 because it's getting dark.

Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out so that there's somewhere equitably that there's lights. If you have a rec council, you've got this many teams, that they can, when it gets dark at 5 o'clock, I guess that's pretty late now. It's November. That might not be an impact for football and fall sports. It's just something to consider, that they all have that same opportunity.

And not all the fields are the same. I mean, we don't have lights at every facility. No, but I'm just saying within a rec council. Right. Again, that information was supplied by each council. And if you go through and you see if there's yellow, it means that they did not supply that information up and I don't have it to provide you. And that was kind of condensed down, because I do have the information for the majority of them, like each program. Like if they had a clinic and then they had ages K through And then I just kind of wanted to condense it for you because it was a lot of information. I'm happy to share that with you.

I guess we're trying to get to it. What's how many fields based on your enrollment, your registration do you have? If you need an X size field and your registration supports it, how many does it support? I'm worried about the age. It's more about what their needs are on the certain size fields.

I will say the direction that the department has always given the rec councils is you know your inventory. You know what you have. what you can handle in terms of registration. I use an analogy of a swimming pool. If I have a six-lane swimming pool, I know I can only have 50 swimmers. Why would I take 75 swimmers?

Well, it depends on your catchment area. You're not going to turn kids away. If you have Carroll County citizens, you have a big catchment area. That's why we have to make sure we have it done in an equitable way. Because you might be in a bigger catchment area if you're a rec council. Certain rec councils, they're not necessarily overlapping. So I know what you're saying, that it's not necessary. If you've got 1,000 kids versus 10,000, it's different.

Right. So that kind of ties up the presentation regarding just kind of an overview of our relationship that we have with the recreation councils. Now I know last spring, Director Hicks shared with you information about fields and locations that the department prioritized that they thought was needed for improvement. So I think our next steps here. We currently have a subcommittee looking at the indoor space. We are expecting them to give a presentation at the advisory board meeting in October. September's our self-help presentation, so in October. And so one of the chair people of the advisory board has been heading up the subcommittee and getting information from the local rec councils try to move a path forward on that equitable space that you're talking about for indoor space. So we graciously appreciate the $5 million in the FY27 budget for restoration of county fields. scheduling a meeting with the department or figuring out the candidates from the rec councils that would be involved in this decision. I know that we've already put forward information from the department on some priority fields that we have. I have that information shared with you today if you'd like it right now. Yes? Do you have one?

Yes, I have.

Because you probably don't remember.

Indoor space is probably a little more tricky, but it'd be nice if we all would be looking for opportunities. It's so much better for indoor space if you can hook it onto something that's already there. And I think one of the best decisions years ago was when they put the extra space onto the Southscope Senior Center. I think it was around $800,000 came from Rec and Parks. And because you're sharing infrastructure, you're sharing your bathrooms, you're sharing your parking lots. So the more opportunities we can use to take shared space and use it, it's very cost-effective. So whoever thought of that 20 years, whenever they did it 20 years ago, it was a wonderful investment. I think we got part of it from the state at that point in time. But I think it was $800,000. And the kids use it every night, and they use it on the weekends. And then the seniors use it every day. They use it for walking. They use it for... a pickleball, and I think they used it for something else on Sunday morning. But my point is, it was very inexpensive. You got all the infrastructure there, because they can close off the doors to the rest of the senior center. So the more we can do those types of things, like with the schools, having the extra gym space. North Carroll used to have the extra gym space. It's economies of scale, because you already have everything there. I don't know if there's opportunities. I know Liberty is getting maybe redone. I don't think that they have an extra wrestling room, but they only have one gym. I don't know what it would cost to add another space onto that. That would be a joint use. But we've just got to think along those lines as we build things. Because like Charles Carroll, it's my opinion that it stands alone. It's in the middle of nowhere. And it's just used by that facility. If that was connected to something else, it would have a lot of joint use. more joint uses. Shared parking lots, shared custodial. There's just economies of scale to doing it that way. So I wouldn't want to repeat doing that again. I wouldn't have done it then, but it's done. But there's other opportunities that might come up as we redo facilities. We do West Middle and Willie. There may be, if that's where the need is. But just as we figure out the need, and we think, OK, how do we solve the need? It might take a while, but a little bit of a plan. It's the same with fields, too. The more fields you can attach to schools, if there's property around it. I know we're pretty landlocked, but again, it's economies of scale. I know there's an extra field between Century and Linton Springs. I think it might be county-owned, but when those facilities were built, that little extra field was on there, and you have parking, you have infrastructure, so it's helpful.

Great.

And I've got some questions about communications and on Liberty. Rec and Parks, I don't think, is involved with the building committee. CCPS will have a building committee that goes through curriculum needs, space needs, whatever. And I thought I've always said the county commissioners can find the worst school site possible in Carroll County and give it to the schools, and that was Man Val. That has one gym, and it's horrible. It has a wrestling room that's actually called a gymnastics room or something, and it's shared. It's horrible. How can we make sure you guys are represented on the building committee for Liberty? Because it's important that they have two gyms and it's not important to CCPS. I don't understand that because then like Carroll County Public Schools uses Cape Horn Park, they use other buildings. They ought to be able to build a new building that they don't need to farm out stuff. And the problem with fields at high schools is they're so hard to get use of. It's nice they're there. So you guys have an advisory board. You have the Friends of Carroll. you have the individual rec councils with your coordinators attending their meetings how do you and maybe it's all of the above how do you communicate with the individual rec councils um my opinion and and you had sent me some information i don't know a month ago um like the friends of carol a lot of people miss those meetings and they're only quarterly And so that hurts the communication to rec councils big time. And then the advisory board, like you said, they're going to present stuff at the advisory board meeting. But some of the councils miss those. Even one of them didn't get a self-help project last year because they didn't show up. And you can't make them show up. But I don't... Does a lot of the communication happen at their individual council meetings when there's coordinators there, or do you rely on the advisory board and the Friends of Carroll?

The Friends of Carroll meeting that's quarterly four times a year is the only time I get all the presidents in one area together. The president does not have to sit on that board. We ask them to send a represent. We ask it to be the president, but it doesn't have to be that person. The Friends of Carroll Recreation and Parks is kind of floundering right now trying to figure out its purpose, because it never really

evolved into what the the bylaws purpose work for they wanted it as a 501 or whatever for donations and business doesn't need to donate to a you know it never it never was what they wanted it to be right and and so yeah it's i can understand that it's tough you know what is their purpose right and i and i'm not sure

the department is in a position to dissolve that yet. Maybe down the road we decide that that's what it is, because we don't need a 501 to get sponsorships or donations.

You need the communication now.

Yes, you need the communication. So that meeting is an opportunity for me to talk with all the presidents in one location. And you're right, it's hard to get them there. We ask more and more of these volunteers. They've got busy lives. They work full-time jobs, too. They've got kids getting to and from practices. So they may not be coming because they're coaching. They're out running a basketball program or a soccer program. So that information, one, they get the minutes, if they read the minutes. And then they also get an email recap. We are relying on that information going to the presidents and the presidents or the full-time staff person getting that information at rec council meetings. But the problem with the rec council meetings is that not everybody shows up to the rec council meetings. So trying to get the information down to the coordinators can become very, very difficult.

Ted, I believe you may want to add something.

Yeah. I'm watching on time delay. So you already moved on before I got here. That's all right. You're going to go back to commissioner. Kyler was talking about wrecking parks, having a place on a school design committee. And do we build extra gyms or larger gyms? Just wanted to point out, I imagine the school system would be happy to have them on the committee, but, um, unless the board is going to commit funding for those things, it has no meaning. I mean, the state is almost certainly not going to participate because we want a larger gym or an extra gym. Now, we do have some history. Back when we were building more schools, we did build some schools with larger gyms than would come as a standard. And with Liberty, if the board said, we want a second gym, I think the order of things would really have to be the board saying, we want a second gym in that school and we're willing to pay for it. And then they can deal with that in designing the school. So if that's a path the board wants, there just needs to be some conversation here about,

how much are we willing to pay in order to get what yeah i and i don't think we should pay we we pay for everything they do anyway um they need two gyms and they need to serve the community as well as their stuff and that was another question i have on your advisory board um years ago when when i was on it the Carroll County public school rep never ever missed and I used to pick on him you know we're term limited and you you're on here as long as you got the job but they would come and that discussion would happen at the advisory board some you know and and uh And I just I personally think we ought to have input into their buildings and they won't like it. But but they use our money anyway. So I don't know why we'd pay for something else. And and Man Valley and I told him that That has a big wide hallway that's beautiful, chandelier that's beautiful, a curving, but they couldn't afford another gym. I'd struggle hard giving them money for a gym when they, trying to think of a good word, squander money other places. You know what I mean? But I appreciate what you're saying. You know, it's always, we get more respect when we throw money.

Well, and I think it's a good conversation to have. Because, again, it's economies of scale. And the times that we have, and I don't remember how that all worked, I remember making the full-size gyms in some of the schools. That was a brilliant idea. Because elementary school gyms, some of those, Freedom Elementary, you hit the walls. But I think all the middle school gyms we made larger. I think some of the new elementary schools were made larger. And that's a smart investment for the amount of money that it costs. So we should have a conversation with them. Ask them. I know my daughter teaches in another county, but she teaches special education, physical education, and there's a few of the schools that don't have an extra gym, and she's got kids in wheelchairs, and she's got kids who are autistic, and it's hard because they're in the general population, and she was telling me we need to have extra space for that population that's not been mainstreamed. I don't know about Carroll County, how they do it, but that was coming from somebody that was... advocating for it no matter where we do it but how do we get involved in just it would be crazy not to at least look into what it would cost and and what it would be a joint it's their kids too I mean just because they're in school in the daytime it's the same kids that are playing ball so we're all in this together so I hope that would they would consider and then we figure out who's what the costs are and what who's going to pay for what and how so so in Frederick County there was a what's called a park school facilities

Any time a new elementary school was going to be built, Rec and Parks was included on it to see if they wanted to go ahead and put in a community room, increase the size of the gym. I think a meeting room had restrooms, had their own entrance, so they had to go through the rest of the school. When I left there over three years ago, they were just finishing one, I think, in the Middletown area. And it was like a million and a half extra. And it did come out of the Parks and Rec budget.

Well, I'll tell you what. A million and a half, we got money. I mean, that is well worth the investment. So how do we get on that conversation? Can we contact them to say we'd like to have a seat at some point?

And we had that in the 90s. ebb valley was supposed to get a larger gym a rec office and uh the linton springs did and then it kind of went out of the budget it was in the advisory board's capital budget um and i forget 800 000 and it could be i'm not saying it's for sure but when we did up valley the enrollment went the enrollment had gone down and we didn't get very much state participation so it's possible

that it was done. I can't remember. It was a long time ago. But I know that school had need, and then it dropped, and we barely got any state participation in it. So it's a possibility that county commissioners might have said, hey, we're putting in more than we were supposed to. So it's possible. But I think it's something we should be trying to, Deb, if you could just get in touch with them, ask if we could have a seat. And then think, we've got to justify it and quantify it. Anecdotally, I think it would be great. But even for the little extra space for the coordinator, or if they could help the school out somehow.

Yeah, the spaces from Frederick County came with an office in there, too. Well, I'm just seeing how it would benefit us.

Baltimore County had a key. I guess Frederick County, you did too.

Yeah, Frederick County had to be careful because we couldn't, oddly enough, we could not be in that separate space during school time.

Yes.

Didn't make any sense. But after hours, then we had the badge access.

Sunday night, you could unlock and go in there. Yeah.

All right, so I want to make sure that Commissioner Guerin and Commissioner Gordon, because I know I think they both have something that they wanted to mention or ask, so.

Commissioner Gordon, or? I just have one really brief question, which you can, if you could supply this later, I think it'd be ideal for the five of us. So under the field inventory and conditions, it lists good, fair, poor, non-usable. You already mentioned non-usable can be for a variety of reasons. Can we get definitions as to what actually falls into those? Well, not just non-usable, but what is good versus fair? I mean, we can all make an assumption, but I'd like to actually see what those specific categories and what falls into that criteria, if we could, when you have a second. Thanks. Commissioner Guerin, anything?

Yeah, to that note, do we have this electronically as well? If not, can we get a copy of this?

I can send it to you electronically.

That'd be great. Thank you. And also, really appreciate the discussion about the construction piece. You have to ask yourself, well, we're already giving them money, so why it shouldn't be that hard to at least start the conversation about additional space when we are building new schools, and we're only doing that right now at Liberty. If I can remember correctly, it's just Liberty High School, and that's just starting out. So That'll be down the road, but it's not gonna solve some of our issues right now. I feel like this is, I appreciate both of you. This is a conversation I think that's in a long time coming. There's always, there's so many variables with rec councils. I mean, so many variables. You're talking about lights, you're talking about parking, you're talking about fields that It may be fair one day, but if you use it too much under the wrong conditions, now it's poor. If you upgrade a field and make it perfect, it won't stay that way because it gets used too much. So, I mean, there's so many variables for, and I, and I've lived through this, uh, in my district, working with the various rec councils, it's been challenging. I think it's fair to say that in the Southern part of the county, the perception at least is that we've got a minute. We could use more space. We could use more space in stores and outdoors. And the subcommittee looking at the indoor spaces, if I can say this, I think that actually was born out of a situation down in Mount Airy regarding Pars Ridge and basketball and and it was important to get a group going, so I appreciate it. Tons of emails on this subject two years ago, very few last year, so something's working, but I'm sure there's always room for improvements. Working together with the groups. Working together, there you go. So I really appreciate that, that's a big deal. But what I want to focus on, and I think what we want to try to wrap up doing is, we've got this $5 million, we've got this report, we've got a very capable, in my view, a very capable advisory board that is willing to get involved and take a look at all this information to try to figure out where we want to use this money, I think we need to establish some criteria for what we do want to improve. In other words, you could improve a field from poor to great, but again, if it gets overused, it's poor again. I think we need to focus on whatever force multipliers we can establish. In other words, if there's a field that's not usable at all, or it's just really poor, maybe that's a place where we need to look to spend this money, because now you're adding an additional field, as opposed to just upgrading one from poor to fair, which I think is also something we need to take a look at. So if I'm not mistaken, that's kind of what you're looking for from this board. And I just happen to feel that the advisory board is the perfect place for them to start taking a look at these fields the money that we have to spend. And I think it's important that we spend it before it loses more and more value. Cause we know how that's working with inflation. So I'd like us to focus on criteria. I don't know if we can all come to a consensus on that today, but I think that's where we need to be moving forward.

Commissioner Guerin, and so you're saying the $5 million should be evaluated by the Advisory Council also, but what about we specifically gave enough money, I think, to do the third phase of that part. Should that go through them too, or should they have everything?

Well, I think it's fair to say that. I mean, so you're talking about Krimgold Park Phase 3 money. That's a separate amount of money, this money for field use.

Specifically for that. They can't change that, but should they?

Yeah, there is a there is a framework for phase three, which already existed. It's a master plan. So and I mean, of course, like I would imagine that probably gets shared with the advisory council at some point. If it hasn't, I'm sure it already has or it will. But I don't think there's much question as to what phase three will involve. But if we need to tweak and change things, certainly or if they can speed it up. Exactly. I mean, that's why I think the advisory board and you know, you're very familiar with the advisory board.

I was on it.

And you were on it and people are willing to put in the time and effort to to so you know, in terms of the 5 million, and trying to make some tangible improvements to, you know, whatever fields fall within that criteria, I think the advisory board is a great place to start. And they've got a lot of information. Now they've got this packet, they've got this. I think that I just want us to be careful. I just want us to be careful that we don't get in the weeds too much on this. Because again, there are so many variables. The biggest one being regional availability. North Carroll may have a bunch of empty fields, but nobody's going from Mount Airy to North Carroll to use a field.

We're paying for fields.

You're paying for fields.

We're paying at Pantherplex. We're paying at the other copper mine facility for both fields and indoor.

So, but my point being, even if there's a field available someplace, you know, you can't expect parents to get in a car and drive for an hour. So now it's this region, there's so many variables. So I think we need to be careful.

But that's a good point. The electronic system, does that help with that? Can I, if I'm the soccer coach at North Carroll, can I look at Westminster's? Can I look at...

Absolutely, you can look at it.

Yeah, you can.

Yeah, so, yeah, hopefully they'd say, wow, there's a field... 20 minutes away, not an hour. Yeah, that's a good point.

So, you know, it's not easy. It's not an easy thing for us to try to fix, but I'm glad we took the actions we did in this last budget. I don't know when the last Board of County Commissioners did something like that, but we did it, and we did it in a big way. We allocated a lot of money to trying to fix this problem, and, you know, I'm glad we're here where we are, but I just want to make sure we're giving Rec and Parks and everybody the...

some guidance of what they need. If I may, I'm sorry. Commissioner Guerin, I think you have a point there. I don't think we're going to get to it today, but my suggestion for everybody would be these criteria about what we're looking for, we email to Bob and Lee so they can compile them, and then once they have a list, we can discuss it in the next open session that we have and determine that that's the list that we want to move forward with. So I think that was a sound idea that you had.

I was just going to mention for Krimble, while you're on it, It might be better for like you're the people that you are going to use crim gold down there. They might want to relook at the plan and just see and sort of sign off on it or see if there's things that have changed. The people that are actually going to be using it, whether their needs change, you know, you're Jordan and yeah, that's probably an evolving discussion.

And we've had, we've had meetings and if there's any changes, um, that we need to make, we can certainly do that, because I think it's still early enough, but I do want to get started.

You want to make sure that, just because it's a 10-year-old plan, that this is still what their needs are. And I'm just looking at Hodges Park. I'd also ask that group. I rode over there. I'd never been there before. I've walked by it forever. I never drove back. It's a mess. You have a picture of it right here. So on some of these, like if that was filled in years ago and it took a bunch of money, if it's going to cost so much money, the question is, is it worth it to do it there, or should you try to if there's somewhere else. I've been on, I've tried, I talked to the state, I had a call with their people for Springfield, all their, see if anything was available at the hospital. They've done a major tree planting thing down there for hundreds of acres. So they put, they're nice trees, but it's taken up a lot of space. The only other space that's possibly available, and I haven't had time to ask the rec council to go look, is there something around Freedom Park that is behind it that they still, the state owns, that could be connected to it? So just, bring that up because I again I'd like to see more things right around where they already there so you can just add a little road and you've got parking and you got some you've got some things there already so if if indeed you know if something is already poor and it maybe isn't the best place to do it because it might be the best place to dump the money if there's nowhere else maybe that's what you've got to do but don't just do it because it's there you know look at look for maybe other opportunities that might be more long-term efficient and ask even the Freedom Guys to go, I've tried to look at Google Maps, but I've lost, my attention span for it, after I had the conversation with the state, there's a few things possible down there, but not actually on the Springfield side, unless the veterans thing doesn't go through, but we're praying that that goes through, so don't want to touch that for another 10 years, but you understand what I'm saying, don't, I notice there's a couple other fields in here that are poor, and they're not being, or not used, and if they're not used, are they not using it because they're poor, or are they not using them just because they don't need them,

Yeah, Hodges Park is a unique one because of the, like I said, that was a previous landfill. I know. I'm just saying, don't just feel. They put the dirt on there. It keeps on sinking.

It might not be worth it. We could put solar. If it doesn't work, maybe put solar farm there or something.

I know Freedom does use quite a bit of it, and they do the best they can with it. Okay.

And to your point, Commissioner Krebs, when that list was put together, we did not go out to the rec councils and ask, is this what you think is a priority for you?

And I think that piece is missing. And the other thing is, in the long term, I know in Loudoun County, where my granddaughter plays, Every one of the high schools have beautiful turf fields. My granddaughter is seven. She said she'd never play on grass again. But they use those all weekend. And the little kids play sideways. And they have just tape that goes on the ground. So they can have four games at a time. And so it's used constantly by the community. So I don't know if there's a long-term plan. The school system sort of valued that a number of years ago. But it's something to think about, because we do overuse these fields. And then we put lights on them. And when you put lights on fields, they're going to be overused. Because they're grass. They're never rested. And so putting lights on a turf field at a high school where they could be using it, and then the community could use it on the weekends, it's just a conversation that might need to come up again to have them regionally. And there'd have to be a plan for that. Right.

All right. Well, thank you, everybody, and thank you very much. We will get you the e-mails with the criteria that we think might be considered, and then we'll talk about it again in open. Not next week, though, because not all of us will be here next week, right?

That's correct.

The following week.

No, no, no. Yeah, next week. Right. There's two that will be absent.

Right. Okay. So we will not schedule it for next week.

Okay. All right.

Thank you very much. Thank you. All right, up next we will move into the public comment portion of our...

I probably have more questions, but I'll email you. I'm happy to answer them. And I will email you about Hampstead lines. Okay.

And we'd like to hear back from what the rec council says about all this. Have they seen this yet?

What's that? Have they seen this documentation? Well, they will. They will. Because we've got to get this group going with the advisory. And that will bring in some representatives. So we've got a plan for that. I think, well, I say we. I think Rick and Parks has a plan for that.

Deb, do we have anybody here for public comment?

We do not.

Matt, do we have anybody on the line for public comment?

No, sir, we do not.

All right. Thank you very much. We'll now move into the admin open section of the agenda. Does anybody have anything today for admin open? All right. Hearing none. I need a motion to approve the closed minutes for cybersecurity from August 27th, 2026. We have a motion. Do we have a second? We have a motion. We have a second. Is there any discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Uh, we will now move into agenda review. Good morning, Wanda. How are you? All right. So first up, agenda review for the week of Monday, September 7th. Monday, September 7th, county offices will be closed in observance of Labor Day. Tuesday, September 8th, 10 o'clock a.m., Board of County Commissioners open session, which is a work session for retirement zoning codes. There will be no public comment at that, but everybody who is interested in streaming or attending is welcome to do so. 4 o'clock PM, Chamber of Commerce Leadership at Best, I'm sorry, Leadership Carroll PM Connections Class of 2027 Reception at Best Western in Westminster. And then at 7 o'clock PM, AgCenter Board Meeting at the AgCenter in Westminster. Wednesday, September 9th, Farm Museum Board Meeting. I will be attending that. Thursday, September 10th, 8 o'clock a.m., Board of County Commissioners closed administrative, followed by open at 9 o'clock. Item number one, Priority Carol. Item number two, Contract Award for Courthouse Annexation Envelope. Envelope. Roof Window Replacement. Item number three, contract renewal for geographic information system software maintenance and support. Item number four, spending authority for Chesapeake Employees Insurance for Carroll County Volunteer Emergency Services Association, followed by public comment, admin open, agenda review. At 5 o'clock p.m., the MML quarterly dinner for the City of Westminster, Commissioners Kyler and Krebs will be attending. And then Friday, September 11th, 2026, 8.30 a.m., the 9-1-1 commemoration ceremony, 25th anniversary commemoration ceremony at the Public Safety Training Center here in Westminster.

I'm going to scratch from that because it's the only weekend I can go see my daughter.

Okay, no worries. So Commissioners Gordon, Kyler, and myself will be attending Saturday.

And I can get information if somebody's interested. At dinner the other night, a guy invited me to Upper Coast thing and touring the new building down there, and that's in the evening because I told him I can't do it in the morning. He goes, and I'll forward everybody when I get it. It's in the evening. They'd love to have us.

You mean the fire department?

Yeah. Thank you very much, Commissioner. Thank you. All right. Saturday, September 12th shows nothing on the formal calendar. Sunday, September 13th, Commissioner Kyler has the podcast. Does anybody have any corrections or alterations for the first week of our agenda? All right, hearing none, I'll move into the second week of our agenda, the week of Monday, September 14th. Monday, September 14th, 3 o'clock p.m., Transit Advisory Council with Commissioner Kyler. Tuesday, September 15th, 9 o'clock a.m., Planning and Zoning Commission with Commissioner Gordon. 12 o'clock p.m., Former Students and Friends of Robert Moten High School Lunchbox Talk at the Historical Society with Commissioners Gordon and Kyler. Also at 12 o'clock p.m., the judging of Carroll County Arts Council exhibits for Commissioner's Choice Award. I will be attending that. And then also at 2 o'clock p.m., the Veterans Advisory Meeting with Commissioners Gordon and Kyler. Wednesday, September 16th, 2026. I don't know why I'm reading the year. Wednesday, September 16th, MDOT Consolidated Transportation Program Tour. All of us are slated to attend, that is at 2 o'clock p.m. 5 o'clock p.m., Carroll County Community College Board of Trustees meeting with Commissioner Kyler. And at 7 o'clock p.m., Emergency Services Advisory Council with Commissioner Guerin. Thursday, September 17th, 8 o'clock a.m., Board of Commissioners closed admin, followed by open at 9 o'clock a.m. Item number one, Priority Carroll and the Aging Your Way Expo. I guess that'll be a presentation on the pending Aging Your Way Expo. Item number two, approval of resolution for consideration of bond authorizing resolution. Item number three, text amendment for chapter 158, cluster subdivision. Item number four, text amendments for chapters 155, 156, and 158, accessory dwelling units. Item number five, text amendments for chapters 91, 155, and 158 for age-restricted housing. Item number six, request approval for bylaws for Veterans Advisory Council and Commission on Aging and Disabilities. Item number seven, approval of bylaw revisions for the Emergency Services Advisory Council. followed by public comments, administrative session open, and agenda review. At 3 o'clock p.m., the James D. Ball Athletic Complex kickoff celebration at the community college with Commissioner Kyler. Friday, September 8th, yes.

At 6 p.m., from 6 to 7, that is the Arts Council actually giving the commissioner award that we all judged. I want to try to make it there, but... um at the community college there's two games following the thing so uh um i'll put me put that down and put put me down for that what um what what day is that um thursday the 17th thursday the 17th

All right, and I've got it on there. Okay, so I've got it on my counter. So yes, I'm gonna go to the community college thing, and then I'll probably go to the Arts Council since I'm already up here.

And Wanda, if you could add me to both of those as well.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right. Thank you, everybody. And then Friday, September 18th at 1230 p.m., the Manchester Fire Department Chiefs Crab Feast. And then Saturday, September 19th shows nothing on the formal calendar. And Sunday, September 20th, Commissioner Gordon has the podcast. Are there any other additions, corrections or alterations to the second week of our agenda?

The Manchester Fire Department's Crab Feast. Can't be that day. I'll have to look and what the date it is a I'm not here, so I definitely won't be there, but be. I don't think it's that day, but let me double check.

I know I have those emails, so that will be pending then for the Chiefs Crab Feast. Does anybody have any other alterations or corrections for that week? All right, hearing none, I need a motion to go into closed for land acquisition and then to adjourn thereafter. So moved. We have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. We have a motion. We have a second. All those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? All right.