Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

Good evening, everyone. Nice crowd out here tonight. Welcome to the August 2026 Zoning Board of Appeals meeting from the town of Carmel. The board members' names are in front of you on the dais. We have Ed Spadaro, our code enforcement officer, with us, as well as town council, Greg Fulcetti. The way we operate is I will ask you to come up. I'll swear you in. If you have a lawyer, they don't need to be sworn in. If you're representing yourself or any other consultants, must be sworn in as well. We'll hear your case. We'll ask the board members for questions. Then I'll open it up to the public. If someone comes up from the public, please just write your name, address, and contact, phone number, information on that piece of paper on the screen. podium and once we decide a case or once we close a case there's no further input so at the end of the night we'll adjudicate and decide on the cases so you can stick around or you can go home and watch it on I forget the channels 24 on Verizon and channel 95 on Comcast or you can reach out tomorrow Ted you're in the office or I don't think it's on vacation right Is she back? Okay. Or you can reach out to Dawn for whatever decisions we came up with. I'm going to ask you please to speak clearly and distinctly into the microphone because it's being recorded for minutes. It looks like we have a big crowd because of one case. It looks like the theater crew. We got multiple letters today in all support. So although we want to give everyone the opportunity, but if it's going to be the same thing over and over, we understand that. So if you have key speakers, please just keep it to that. I really would only want to hear from anyone who might have opposition, which I hope there's none, or anyone who has just questions generally in the public about it. So please keep that in mind. Will you all please stand and join me for the Pledge of Allegiance? under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right thank you everyone our first case tonight is a holdover case uh joanne mcconnell for variants of section 156-9 seeking are they here tonight i don't think so i don't see her i know i don't see her okay i don't remember getting any verbiage to that i didn't either i texted this morning March. All right. couple mrs. Chris is like I think that's the most we've done like four or five months yeah so what you can do a motion to deny without prejudice also or you could you can just give it over one more month right you guys agree or okay all right so I'll look for a motion to hold that case over motion to hold over second second favor aye okay right and the next holdover case is for michelle montero for 114 old route 6 realty llc are you here this evening okay um so the code requires or allows one acre There's .9 acres provided, so a variance of .02 acres is being sought, and the code requires or allows an outdoor play space. What's provided is indoor only, and the variance needed would be for allowing an indoor space for play space. Good evening. State your name and address for the record, and speak into the mic, please.

Michelle Montero, it's 114 Old Route 6, Carmel. Raise your right hand.

Swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so hope you got it. Yes. All right, bring us into any new factors. I know something else happened, but. Congratulations.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yes, last time I was a.

Very pregnant. Not like this.

I had spoken to Dawn yesterday, and she recommended that I bring some paperwork, some pictures. Is it okay if I approach and give them to you?

Yeah, absolutely. Just bring the mic with you in case there's something that you want to explain and needs to be picked up.

She had told me to come with options of where I would build the play space, so there's three options. I had them all done. Obviously, it is not architecturally beautiful, but this is all of them. I don't know if you each want a copy. You can. If you don't, don't. but these are all of the options that I had created that I believe worked within what you guys were talking about. Which is essentially, I left here understanding that there was no, oh I'm sorry, they're all the same. They're just different options. No, I'm sorry, I'm saying like each packet. Each packet.

So you need one paper per packet. I have option two here.

All right, I mean, for the benefit of the public, this is hard to see. Vinnie, can you pick this stuff up at all or no? With that camera?

So essentially, I made three options for you guys because we had decided or you guys had told me that there was no... or I had to come up with a way to build a play space for the children that was whatever, X amount of feet away and not near the dogs and X, Y, Z. I did, I came up with three.

Okay, let's go through it. So option one is what now?

Right there. So obviously it's much more difficult to see in a photo, right? But this is the street view. I'm sorry. This is my business. In the back is the martial arts center currently there. They are leaving. So there was a daycare center that wanted the space because it was denied. They walked. So now I'm trying to get the variance for you guys to allow me to have a daycare center. So you can advertise it again for daycare use. Yes. So I created three different options. At this point, there have been no inquiries except for daycare centers. Really? Or something for children, whatever, for children. I'm sorry, yes, this is option three.

How are you advertising?

I have a real estate agent. And also, you know, the town Facebook and chitchat and all of that. But I have gotten people, and it's all daycare centers, it's all children, something to do with children. Okay. It's, you know, what it's zoned for, one of the things it's zoned for is a hotel.

But just, Ed, if you can, because last time when Mike said how big it needed to be, it sounded like it needed to be like 6,000 square feet or something. 5,600. 5,600. Which seemed insane.

Which makes no sense because my building is, the building is 7,000 something. Is that correct?

If you're getting into the bulk requirements, the first inquiry is a use inquiry, whether or not the use is permitted, and then you can get into whether or not you need variances from the bulk requirements.

Well, I mean, if you're providing the use, then that variance. I missed what you said.

I apologize.

If she's offering an outdoor space with the proper square footage, which if you could verify that, Ed, of what that requirement is, then that's one less variance she needs, right?

But there's a use variance because daycare is not a permitted use in that zone. That's right. Before you get into whatever the particulars are of how much indoor or outdoor space is required, there's a use inquiry and this came up, Michelle was here probably

I was here two months ago. It was June.

I can tell you I was here. I know it was a prior meeting. But the first inquiry is the daycare as a permitted use in that particular zone is not permitted as an accessory, as a writer special. Do we know why?

Do we know why it wouldn't be? I'm just newer to this.

It's what the code says.

It's currently being used. There's children there right now. It's martial arts, but it's children. So it's an after-school program. There's kids there. Essentially, the only thing I'm asking is can they stay all day instead of after school? It's it's children. I don't I can't tell you the exact ages, but they're they're young kids They're inside and outside It's been like that for five years more because I bought the building five years ago, so it's always been Children they're inside and outside so essentially I'm coming here to ask why can't it just

Can I just read the minutes from the May 28th meeting? Yes. Just a blurb. Mr. Carneza said the problem is the town made it a BP zoning district, which was light industrial before. It's light industrial, wholesale warehouse use, research labs, data processing, business and professional office restaurant, self storage warehouse, entertainment, fitness facility, trade or vocational school. landscape material yards, metal working, laundry and dry cleaning plants, fuel storage, public utility, vet hospital, animal kennel, craft beverage, hotel, and indoor pistol range. Those are the allowed uses. Am I correct?

Correct.

In the BP zone, which is your building is in the BP zone. So that's why we're here.

So, this would be a use variance change, basically.

I don't know if there's any argument of . Usually that application is a dual application often, that it's either something that's been there for the functional use or in the alternative that a use variance would be granted.

Which might have been why they didn't kick you back out because they'd been there for so long when they changed it. They said that they had a variance.

Yes, I think they might have had a variance. They did.

They had a variance, which I understand.

So you're not asking for anything different than what's already existing to a certain degree. It's just because the code changed or it's been updated, it's now... needed to have a variance, a use variance.

Yes.

So this is an interpretation, right? So we need to interpret that first.

No, it's a use. It's not a use.

It's got to be a use. The application right now just says daycare center and looks like there's some bulk requirements, right? Well, hold on.

The application says seeking an interpretation regarding previous variance granted to allow martial arts duty. Now wants to convert to a daycare center. So I think she's looking for the interpretation first, and then we...

Okay, but do you have the prior, that variance that allowed the UMAC? Yeah, do you have that or a copy of that?

UMAC, that variance?

You guys showed it to me. I didn't even know it was... Yeah, I don't know. I don't recall. I guess five months ago, so... By you guys, I mean the town, not specifically. No, no, no, I get that.

You're the building owner. You should technically have a copy of anything.

I'm sure I do. When I was nine months pregnant, I was going to pass out. So I'm sure I do. I just don't correctly couldn't find it.

In an August 31st D&O, it says in August 31st, 2004... It says, applicant application concerns a one-story frame building consisting of 3,150 square feet and situated on 1.12 acres of land. Applicant proposes to construct a two-story extension to the existing building in order to expand his martial arts business.

All right, so there's the facts. So you found it.

Okay.

These are existing minutes from that last decision. It's called the decision in order. So it's the facts of what had occurred at that time.

And the final decision was request for an interpretation on the martial arts studio as a commercial use and as such is allowed in the C-BP zone where the applicant's property is located is hereby granted. So it was granted in 2004.

All right, so with this, the fact of this information, that helps us to decide on this. I don't think, I think the options are better reviewed probably with Ed and the plan, this is gonna go to the planning board, right? So you're probably gonna take those steps. As long as we know you're providing somehow, somewhere, this outdoor play space to comply with the variance.

The last time the issue was, like you said, 5,600 square feet. That's ridiculous. The building is 7,000 square feet. That doesn't make sense. Why would it be an outdoor play space of 5,600 square feet?

I would imagine because of jungle gyms and play items are usually larger in scale.

But was it based on the number of people? You were talking about 28 kids. Yes. So maybe that's why. We came up with that number.

Yes, that is exactly why, but still, it's a gigantic number. You could reduce the number of kids in the daycare. The issue is then you put another, that's another issue for the tenant. That's another limitation for the tenant.

And is that the size of your whole building? Was it based on your whole building or the space that they were gonna be using?

Does that matter? I don't know, Mike just said 5,600 square feet outside.

It said IMAC was expanding at that, UMAC was expanding, and that's why they did it.

How large is the indoor play space?

Their side of the building?

I guess it would, what is it, 3,000 square feet, give or take a little bit.

So a little less than half of yours? A little less than half of mine, yes.

So what did you provide on the inside for playground, for play space?

There's room for, if it's a daycare, we have a downstairs area. It's matted. There's multiple areas. There's little children's cubbies.

I think it's whatever the state requires, John, whatever the outdoor has to be.

It's pretty much a blank space right now, right? It's a martial arts gym. It's empty rooms. So they can play. Thank you.

I think the first question is the use variance. Do we comply with the use variance? Then we'll have to talk about the area variances and the size and all that kind of thing, right? Is this use compatible with what was before? I think is the question.

So the fact that you're looking for the outdoor space, you're providing the outdoor space. That's one line I have to take it off. So I think...

have to interpret this first right i'm going to pull the board right so there's no application is there an application for a use variance is it just an interpretation right now it's an interpretation i'm looking at the agenda i don't know what the application actually said like the interpretation so the bulk requirements just the extent that you're speaking of them are two things they're going to go back to planning And, and maybe the state's going to be involved because it's going to be, it would be a daycare center. Sure. So I wouldn't touch the bulk requirements tonight. If you get past the use thing, you can go back to plenty and might have to come back because there's three alternates that are presented to you. You can't pick one. Then they go to planning. And then planning says, well, that's not good. You have to change it this way. And then maybe the bulk requirements change for how many square feet you're providing or whatnot.

So can we do that now? Or should we wait till the end of the evening when we adjudicate?

I think you'll do what you're going to do. And then you'll do the use part of it. And then any of the bulk part then falls into place behind that one way or the other. All right. But let me open it up to the interpretation and use part.

But Greg, the application has some area variances.

one acre zoning and place space outdoor that's on the application do we have to address the application you can reserve on those if you have alternates that very i don't know if the alternates vary from those the acreage obviously does not but the outdoor area might vary within the the alternates you represent but she's going to she's providing that but i think that's something that has to be planned with the planning board right so that's one less thing some combination of the variance of what she needs so what she only needs a variance of 0.02 acres for um you know, one acre uses as was allowed to the extent that any of its bulk, I would wait until there's some other more definitive plan before the planning board, but you can address the interpretation or the use part tonight and then go to planning and get, get it finalized and unfortunately come back. But that's the only way to do it because that's the best way to do it.

You'll have to come back anyway because you don't know what planning board's going to want. You'll give the planning board time to do their piece, but the planning board can't do anything unless we do the interpretation.

It's been denied here because of the use. That's the primary reason it's front of you. Gotcha. All right.

Are there any other questions from the board members? All right. I have to open it up to the public. Does anybody in the public wish to speak or be heard on this application? All right, that's good. So at this point, you can go back to the podium. I'll look for a motion on the interpretation.

Do we have to close the public hearing first? Greg, do we have to close the public hearing on this?

Yeah.

All right, I'll look for a motion to close the public hearing.

So moved.

All right, do I have a second on that? Second. All right. Now I'll look for a decision on the interpretation. Okay.

So the interpretation is for the motion to allow a daycare center.

Well, seeking an interpretation regarding previous variance granted to allow a martial arts studio. She now wants to convert to daycare center. So someone would have to make a motion to grant this change as the use.

Well, in 2004, the martial arts studio was allowed. They were granted a variance. So the question becomes, but it was the entire building. It wasn't just a small section. It was the entire building. And in fact, they expanded. so that it could take on the entire building. And this, I guess the interpretation is whether a martial arts studio which involves children is comparable to the use of a daycare center. Are they similar? Is a martial arts studio just a camp situation and an after school activity? Would you say that that's also a daycare setting where you have babies taking naps in a place? Would you say that the uses are similar?

That's the question.

The motion should be, a motion to interpret that the 2004 variance was the functional allowance of a daycare center use at the premises. That's what's being asked. That's the first part of it, is the interpretation.

So the interpretation is, given the 2004 decision, is a daycare also... similar to a martial arts studio?

You're being asked to interpret that decision for 2004. So did that decision functionally allow for the operation of a daycare center at the premises? That's as clean and as basic as it can be. And if that gets you to the use, then you can deal with all the bulk stuff. But I think that's exactly what's being asked, that we had this variance. there was kids in UMAC, okay, it had some sort of childcare component. Does it functionally act as a daycare center for that property? And which would then grandfather it in because it's not permitted in, what is it, BP? Okay, so that's the interpretation that you should be considering one way or the other because that's what's being asked. And they can come back and ask for another interpretation. It doesn't work. There's other ways to do it, but... I would adopt that motion.

So did I say it correctly?

I'm trying to narrow it specifically because you're only interpreting the prior action of the board. So the motion should be for an interpretation that the 2004 variance for the property was the functional allowance of the operation of a daycare center at the premises. As you use. one way or another, you can talk about that and take a vote on it because that's what's being asked the way I look at it.

So is a daycare center a functional use of the 2004 decision for the martial arts studios is a daycare a functional use?

Yes. Basically. Do I have a second? Somebody has to second me. I'm for the motion, yes. You have to give me a second. I need a second. I second it.

All right, so I'll do a roll call vote. Julie, you're for the motion. For the motion. For the motion. John? For the motion. For the motion. And I'm for the motion as well. So it carries through. So now at this point, you're going to go to the planning board. They're going to work with you on your outdoor space, figure out what's the best thing to do. yeah the creatures up there um and they'll work with you right that'll be at those meetings so he can you actually i you know i'm not speaking for you but a lot of times people come in and see ed and kind of work things out and what might make the best sense for following everything like you you're going to be taking away some parking so you may be affecting parking here too and you know i don't want to go down that road but you really got to do a little more leg work i would meet with ed if he's willing and able to do so with you to help you to buy something that makes sense before you get to the planning board then you'll come back to us it'll be quick and easy i think because it's a very minimal variance that you would need for the acreage so but that's the right way to do it just to make sure planning is on board okay all right does that make sense yes it does all right have a good night good luck with the new one thank you oh thank you yeah good luck great All right, new applications this evening. Application Daniel Ortiz for variation of section 156-9, seeking an area variance for permission to retain the existing gazebo. Properties located 162 Lakeshore Drive, Mahopac, New York, tax map 74.35-1-14. The code requires or allows 10 feet. i believe that's for the side and what's provided is one foot ten inches so a variance of eight feet two inches is being sought and uh the other variants or the code requires allows ten feet what's existing is one foot point five inches so a variance of eight feet eleven point five inches is being sought good evening state your name and address for a record yeah speaking to the mic just you can point it down to your mouth there you go

Samara Rodriguez Ortiz. Address is 162 Lakeshore Drive, Mail Pack.

Okay, raise your right hand. Swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So how have you got?

Yes.

All right, so this gazebo is not built in, correct?

No.

So it's movable? Yes. So as a board... our job is to grant the minimum that makes the most sense and you know works within the town's um guidelines and whatnot so the fact that this thing has not been built in it's movable so we want to make sure we're getting to a point that I think I'm confusing. This is the other one that's in C core. This is, yeah, there's two there, John. All right, this is the gazebo. Yeah, yeah, okay. No, I know there's a shed that's on the next case. So how can we move this gazebo to make it work for you still, for your comforts and your needs, but also to get it away from the neighbor's yard and their side? just speaking to the mic sorry i'm sorry i didn't think it was close to the i don't i'm not sure how it's like the property line that's the side fence yes did have you spoken to your neighbors on that side no um are they here this evening so sometimes people don't they're not worried about it but you know When we have a case like this, we want to grant the minimum possible. So my question to you is how far can we move this away from the property line?

We can move it up.

towards the house right so i mean looking at the pictures and being there the other night i felt like this this you know still need some room to get in between the corner of it and the house but we could probably move this thing a foot or two right does anybody get a chance to go get out there and take a look back towards the pool right can it move back that way or

You want to keep it on the patio?

Yeah, we'll keep it there.

You can pull up Google Maps there.

Up against the side of the house is what you're saying, John?

Yeah. Right here? Yes.

Like bring it up to here?

Yeah, a little more, yeah.

I mean, right now it's...

assuming the first number the 10 feet ed do you have the original um application that first numbers is the side but the second number is for the front yard or rear setback yeah that's funny because it's pretty far from the rear it's pretty far from the front it's really just a lot no it's not no it looks like from the from the survey it's only going to need to side yeah

It's from what? Just one side, right? Yeah.

Just the one side.

Yeah. You think that's a typo on there?

Probably. It's smack in the middle of the yard.

Do they measure twice?

Yeah.

I don't know.

That's really weird.

I should have questioned it when I was out there because it said 10 feet. It's basically in the middle of the property back and forth. Yeah. It's just from the side.

So it's not really a front. I think it's a typo.

Ma'am, did you fill out the application?

Yes.

I'm right here.

When you did it, did you meet with anybody from the building department?

I met with building and then they transferred me to planning, yeah.

Okay, I don't know who Patty is. Patty's on your staff, Ed?

Dawn, I spoke to.

Dawn.

Dawn.

I think it's possible that the gazebo's on an angle. that's why it came up with two different numbers oh so it's one foot one point five foot provided and one foot ten provided so i think oh it's slightly it's not parallel the back is not perfectly parallel yeah i got you but that would be uh that's two points of a of a thing that's so the variance you could just consider the application still the same side smallest variance yeah right for the closest variance

So if we brought the gazebo over like two feet, does that encumber into the house? I don't think so. I think I remember seeing about five feet.

Yeah, it doesn't.

So I'm just throwing that number out there. It makes sense. This thing's not installed or permanently built. have an opportunity to make this a little better than than what it is so um board members any comments i'm okay with that questions yeah so you want to change it all right provide it well um yeah we'll move it two more feet than what it is now so these these numbers are going to change i'm going to have you initial the original uh so put it three feet from the fence three feet okay on both posts at three feet okay and then then you're set

And it's a seven foot variance.

While I'm doing this, anybody in the public wish to be heard on this application?

OK. So.

Three feet, 10 inches.

Three feet, half inches.

And this would come down to six feet. No, we're moving at two feet. Let's make it an even three for both. Oh, yes. Hear me out. So six feet, two inches is now the variance required. And six feet, 11.5 inches.

Okay.

Ma'am, just come on up and initial that.

Just mix it all up. Oh, yeah, she wrote that down. As amended.

I would pencil where it is now, if your husband or your handyman or whoever's going to do it, and just move it two feet from that mark, and it'll be out there to inspect it. All right. I'll look for a motion to close the hearing. So moved. Second. All in favor? Aye. Okay. Thank you, ma'am.

Thank you. Thank you. Good luck.

All right, application number four, Michael Bentavegna. Excuse me, for a variation of section 156-9, seeking variance for permission to legalize shed or garage properties located at 105 Heath Road, Mohopak, and its tax map 74.43-1-63. Code requires or allows rear yard of north 10 feet, two feet are provided, a variance required of eight feet. The code also requires or allows for the rear yard, east side, 10 feet. What's provided is four feet, and a variance of six feet is being sought. And Joel, you're representing. Good evening.

Yes. Good evening, Joel Greenberg, 2 Muscogee Road, North Mahopac, New York.

Raise your right hand, sir. Swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God. Yes, I do. Bring us through it, my friend.

Okay. those of you who have not been out there from the board this is a picture of the uh of this of the shed and as you can see from from the picture here the property line back here is completely lined with arborvitaes which are probably eight to ten feet tall along this property line here uh this is the house next door but as you can see the arborvitaes do come and they Basically, from their house, they cannot even see this. My client has also spoken to both neighbors, and neither one of them have any problem with the gazebo, excuse me, the shed as it is in this location. But as I said, as you can see from the pictures, it is well screened on both the rear property line and the side property line.

Joel, there's no property that they can buy to bring this into compliance.

Lake Secor, I doubt very much. No, there's none.

I know the answer. I know. I'm just establishing the record here. Of course. if that thing had to be moved it's a pretty nice looking shed it's almost a garage right it's slash garage on the application so that would be pretty costly to have to move the reason it was because of the size of it when we went uh to get the application it was considered a shed slash garage but it's a shed right so what would be the cost to have to move that uh probably the neighborhood of four to five thousand okay so that's expensive um all right board members any questions

Joel, how old is it?

How old is it?

Approximately a year.

A year old?

Yeah.

And did the applicant build it?

Yes. Didn't know he needed a permit? I guess not. Or a variance?

Or a variance.

It's always easier to seek forgiveness, isn't it? What's that? It's always easier to seek forgiveness, isn't it? You answer that. I won't. All right.

You're on the rope, Joel.

Anybody in the public wish to be heard on this application? Okay. I'll look for a motion to close the hearing. So moved. Second by Claudine. Second. All in favor? Aye. All right. Thank you very much. All right, application of Brewster Theatre Company for variation of Section 156-9, seeking multiple area variances regarding two parcels. The property is located at 69 Glenida Avenue, Carmel. Tax map 44.14-1-2 and 17. uh too many to read here but mostly parking i'm sure you guys are going to go through that so i don't want to be too redundant here i usually do it as courtesy for the public and and the minutes here but um good evening you guys both going to be speaking i believe so you want to go first okay i'd state your name and address uh bob dumont bruce the theater 69 glenada avenue

And ma'am?

Stephanie Fox, architect, 11 Roseland, Brewster, New York.

Thank you. All right. Raise your right hand, guys. I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so I'll help you God. I do. Just a reminder, there should be another microphone up there if you want to handhold it and that one. Oh.

Do what? Did someone take it?

No, it's not there. No.

All right. We can take turns.

Yeah, okay. Again, it's being recorded for minutes, so we want to try to speak loud and clear.

Sure. So I can go over each of the variances for you so it would be okay? Please. Okay. So just to give you a little background on what the project is. So the building that we're talking on, the properties that we're talking about used to be a floor cage tea room. Recently Brewster Theater Company purchased the property and we've been in front of the planning board for a few months discussing a site plan application. And once we sort of worked some of those details out, they denied us and referred us to the zoning board. As discussed, the majority of the variances that are being requested are either existing non-conforming conditions or having to do with parking. The first is the lot width. The required width is 75 feet. Existing is 49.55 feet. Obviously the lot's not going to be able to get any bigger, nor is it getting any smaller. So we're requesting the variance of 25.45 feet. IN TERMS OF OFF STREET PARKING, CERTAINLY THE THEATER USE IS AN ASSEMBLY USE. THE TEA ROOM WAS PREVIOUSLY A RESTAURANT, BUT THE THEATER IS A DIFFERENT TYPE OF ASSEMBLY USE. AND SO BASED ON THE TOWN OF CARMEL CODE, 48 SPACES ARE REQUIRED. I use the term loosely, spaces are provided. We're proposing 11 spaces on site, and that is just to provide a handicap parking space so that and and to make the spaces actually conforming um to what the town code requires so there's a slight reduction there so we would be requesting a variance of 37 spaces in terms of access because property adjacent property is a residential structure we're not allowed to have parking within 10 feet i should it should be noted that the parking that's been there forever Pretty much goes to the property line. We're actually improving that condition by, uh, providing, um, a plant, uh, a grass strip and some, uh, fencing. Um, and so the required is 10 feet existing is zero feet. Um, we're proposing 4.5 feet. So we're requesting a variance of 5.5 feet. Um, in terms of drainage and surfacing, um, the code does require that, um, commercial spaces have a paved lot, but there is a provision in there, um, for phasing. Um, and that's at the discretion of, um, both yourself and the zoning board. Um, as mentioned, that's been a gravel lot, um, probably for at least 30 years. Um, so you can say that maybe it's impervious, but I would beg to differ that that gravel has been packed down for so long that it's pretty close to. impervious. Um, and so what we're requesting is, um, to only, um, maybe pave a portion of the lot, uh, where, uh, the handicap space would be, and then the apron that's, uh, leading, uh, to the street as well. Um, in terms of, um, parking again, um, we are requesting, uh, to try to, um, to appease the, the, the 48, the variance of 37 spaces We've made a lot of headway with local businesses where we would be able to share some off-site parking. And we've secured agreements with those businesses to provide enough off-site parking to meet the variance of 37 spaces. Bob will tell you a little bit more about that in a little while. And then in terms of a loading zone, every commercial building requires one loading space. There's none existing now. We don't really feel the need for a loading space. And honestly, that lot on Fowler Avenue, it's a trade-off. Do you want a loading space or do you want parking? Because there's just not that much room there.

So what kind of loading would be needed? It's not like a business selling wares and whatnot, so it's...

really just material coming in for set building and so basically the i'll let bob to speak to it a little bit more but i mean basically you know um if you've ever seen you probably maybe you haven't seen a show there um it's it's not you know when people think of a theater they think of broadway right like these huge backdrops and all that um they're very creative they usually um do everything on wheels and it's based It's built with 2x4s and sheetrock and things like that. It's not like extractor trailers are coming in there and dropping off materials.

It's not constant. For one play coming up in six weeks, we're going to build one set. It'll be one drop off of material. That's correct.

Correct, exactly. Okay. And, you know, there is, we are obviously providing a dumpster, but we've done parking or traffic studies that will allow, you know, the garbage truck to come in, empty the dumpster, turn around, because again, you know, the back parking lot is really, a limit use. The shows are every six weeks or whatever it is over the course of two weekends and things like that. The rest of the time would be for the Brewster Theatre Company members that are practicing or building sets and things like that. It's not so many people as it would be safe for a performance night.

So that's what it is. It's two weekends every six weeks, basically, except for the holidays?

It's two to three weekends, depending on the show. So every six weeks is exactly right.

When do you do your set building? During the day?

Right now, it's mostly done on Saturdays. Because you're all volunteers. It's all volunteers. That's not to say we do it on Saturdays, Sundays, because basically our current environment, that's all we're allowed to do. So that's not to say that... Obviously, this will be our place. There wouldn't be some set building, but usually with that, you might be talking a handful of people during the week. People come on the weekends to volunteer.

I was just more concerned about the noise.

Yeah. I mean, honestly, it's not like we're building houses. No, yeah. We might be cutting a two-by-four, but it shouldn't be an issue at all.

so in in the drawings there's 40 there's almost 90 seats um yes so assuming couples come in one car would you not need more parking than when what you're asking for

I think we went according to code there, so that number was given to us.

I'm just a little concerned that you might go over what you need, but, you know, I guess, how do you contend with that? People can just find parking where they can on the street?

Yeah, I think so. You know, when we came out of the planning board, you were required to have 46 spaces. So we had 11, as Stephanie said. So we went out, we contracted with two other vendors. Putnam Housing Corp has given us some parking. And Wenco Parking, which is behind the restaurants and all that, they're giving us 20 spaces. So if we needed more, yes, it would be on-street parking. And what we did provide... was basically, hold on, to the planning board because they had asked a similar question is, you know, what's gonna be like? Where are they gonna park? So we basically went out, we took some pictures, and I'm happy to bring this up to you. So we took some pictures of, hey, what's a street look like at show times? So this was, this is not the exception to the rule either. I was there multiple times. It's free and clear of parking. There is plenty of parking during our show times because they are all off hours. We do shows at 7.30 on a Friday. Saturday, 2 o'clock. On a Sunday, church is out, you know, before then. So the street is pretty bare.

However, you do have the restaurant crowd.

We have the restaurant crowd. You know, you'll have some George's. You'll have some of the restaurants there, but they have the parking in the back.

Well, George's isn't open for dinner, right?

Yeah. So, you know, those are the streets at, like, 7 o'clock. I mean, that's what it looked like, so... The planning board made us measure the streets, so there's 65 spaces just on the street, two blocks left and right of it.

The other thing just to note about the on-street parking is that currently they're in Drew Methodist Church, which is less than a quarter of a mile down the road. If there was an impact on the street parking, you would see it 100 feet away. So, I mean, they're just moving down the road a little bit.

We're literally moving down the street.

I hope to move down the street. My big concern is you have letters, but we don't have anything in perpetual agreement, like by means of legal binding, easement, or what have you. Greg, what's the proper term? Help me out here.

It's an easement. It's usually a parking easement.

yeah so we we want something you know if we do approve this tonight we'll get to the planning board but before it gets approved totally we would want some kind of professional agreement make that a condition for approval but again it seems sort of detrimental to go through the legal process of hiring an attorney to create all of these easements and things like that without knowing whether or not we're going to get any of these approvals

Understood. I'm just telling you that's where our mindset is.

Feel free to make it a condition of approval, and same with the planning board. But, again, we have good faith right now, which I understand is not a legal binding, but we have good faith agreements.

Okay. That's good. Right. And when you say an easement, are you saying like a permanent easement to parking?

It's just like some kind of legal binding document, notarized and perpetual for 100 years or whatever the case may be.

Yeah. So then the issue becomes is what happens if we can't get that, that 100-year agreement?

cross that bridge when you get to it, but like she stated, you don't make those arrangements yet until you get a little further in the process.

Okay, because what we have are just contracts for both.

You do have contracts. Look, good faith is what it comes down to. You have something in writing, you could always, you know, not that you want to throw it in their face, but hey, we have this agreement and you're going to renege on it.

Right, right.

Someone also could sell the business and the new person may not allow

You have to be written into the deed that way. That's a tax, right? That's a lawyer question. That's a good point.

What if they have an agreement with the housing department, whatever, and they sell the property and it becomes a new owner? They run with the land. It's an easement.

It runs with the property. That's right. It would have to be an easement.

The flip side is I just said that if they're... If they're agreements for a term and they're not easements, they're essentially licenses, then you could limit the duration of your variance to the term of the parking variance. That's the other side of that. The perpetual easement is cleaner and it's a smarter way to do it.

I'm not sure if it would technically be an easement, right? Because an easement transfers with property versus some sort of legal binding agreement that would terminate should the property change ownership.

But that's what we're saying, that when you have off-site parking, you either want a bulk variance of saying you want 11 spaces when you need 48, or we want 11 spaces and we have this other parking, and that parking should be in a perpetual agreement, which is usually an easement that is recorded against the properties, that you're allowed to park on. That's typically what's asked for from either board.

And in terms of parking, if a new use came in, if a different use came in, then they would have different parking requirements. And so then they would need different variants or a new variance.

Yeah, no, we're talking about the agreement you would have with the housing development. That changed hands.

Provide scenarios for the future.

That's unfortunate. We have to think of these things, right? That can come back to bite us.

Is the street parking an option?

According to what the code calls for, right? That's the parking spots that are being required for this use.

Right. And would the variance speak to using on-street parking?

I don't think it can be considered.

This is not part of the property. It's not a given entity.

Right?

So is the only way... We get through this to have easement, to have a parking easement with some of these neighbors.

Well, you could also grant department variance for less parking than what's required. I mean, there are plenty of businesses that are on Glen, I avenue that have zero parking. So I would have to assume that they came and say they needed five or six or 10 or 15 parking spaces that they don't have because they don't even have access to a parking lot that you've provided a variance for. a certain amount of parking for those spaces.

So that's at your discretion, but you know, but there's not, not even one restaurant or anything that has the capacity for a hundred plus or minus seats. You know what I mean? So your need is much grander than any other business in that.

I understand that, but we're trying to find an alternative as well. We're trying to make this work. So, but, and I think an easement makes it a bit prohibitive. There's just not enough parking in that area. for whatever kind of business and you know as Stephanie said there are businesses there that have zero parking and they're fairly recent business they might not have the volume we do but even the restaurant that was there you know it's it's hard to imagine that those people really parked in that space behind on Fowler Avenue I'm sure they were all parking on the street

The thing is, people won't come to the theater if they can't park. They may buy one ticket for one show, and if they find out it's too much of a pain, they can't get parking, they're just not going to come anymore.

That's true too. Yeah, I mean, in other areas, to be honest with you, because I think there's a lot of people here, myself included. I was going to say, I don't think so, Rose. Yeah, we see a lot of shows, and I will say the bulk of these theaters are in towns with zero parking. People circle the neighborhood, look for a spot, go to a restaurant, and come in. This is really no exception to that.

It's very much true in Long Island.

Yeah, it's true almost everywhere. Jacob Burns in Pleasantville. You get tickets. Don't meet her, too.

You can't talk.

Yeah, they'll drive around the neighborhood.

They'll drive around the neighborhood, and as we said, there are 65 spots within a level two block radius of this building that in these off hours are almost fully available.

What time would the shows begin on a Saturday night?

7.30.

so you're going to get there around here's the deal we we can't control the change of whoever owns these parking areas that that are giving you the easement we can't change the fact that it may change hands down the road but we can give you what we can now if you have an agreement a binding legal agreement with them i think that's fine we can't control what happens in the future that's on them if if that changes sadly but you know it's a chance that you have to take can i try this from a different angle absolutely um

Why did you put that on the application? To say have the ownership of, did the planning board tell you to do that? These are all from the planning board. That's from the planning board.

Okay. Yeah.

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

They gave us all these points. Okay. It was up to us. We put nothing and say approved. Excuse my fault.

He's an honest guy. That's very funny. 48 spaces.

I like that. No, because if that wasn't there, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. That's the only thing I'm thinking of here. You know, so. But if planning asked for it, then I got to respect what planning's asking. Yep.

You know what I find interesting is the handicap parking. You're going to be down on Fowler and if you're in a wheelchair you're going to have to... wheel yourself all the way up.

So those are... So there's different nuances, right?

So there's different codes that we need to comply with, right? So there's the town of Carmel code that generates the number of parking spaces that are required for our use, right? Now there's the New York State building code that says if you provide on-site parking, regardless of if it's a hundred feet in the air or a hundred feet below, you need to provide a handicapped parking space. So that is to be in compliance with New York state building code, whether or not it is reasonable or efficient. Welcome to New York state.

I mean, that's all I can really say about 30 steps beyond that point to get up to the stage.

Well, we're actually right now. Currently there is absolutely zero connection between the lower parking lot and the front door.

We are, um,

again i never dined at floricade's but i have to assume that patrons never like bob said never used that parking area i knew they had a parking spot i never knew they did either thought it was on street that's right and and it's it's like i said it's very similar to you know you you can think of like georgia's which i know is pre-existing non-conforming but you know they're probably as busy as us and it's all on street parking So, you know, and as I said, there are new businesses that have zero parking. So we just kind of want to be treated like them. We have gone the extra distance to have agreements. We did submit them to the board so that you have copies of them. And we are just, you know, we want to be in the town, obviously. We want to make this work. And to be upfront, we do have a clock. We basically have maybe another year to get this place up and running. We have a two-year agreement with the former owner. So we bought the property from him. He's holding the mortgage. It's two years and we have to basically pay him back or bring it to a bank to get the mortgage refinanced, and the bank is telling us that we can't issue this until you get all approvals. Makes sense. So if this kind of goes on much longer, our option is what do we do with this property? We're not going to get the approvals in time, we're not going to be able to build, and we're not going to basically be able to make the owner hold.

Look, this board, I've been on this board for over 25 years. Rose is almost right behind me. We always work with people the best possible to bring in. We want business in the town. We want positivity. However, our hands are tied when it comes to legal things like that. So you have to understand that perspective. I think I'm speaking for the board where I think we can give you most of the variances that you're being sought. We just... again that legal binding thing is is what's critical to us so if we do prove this we would condition it based on on that okay am I right Greg I mean it makes the most sense right so um board members any any other questions or comments on on the variances just one question uh Bob and

Stephanie, the 18 weekends, is that consecutive, or do you spread them out over the year, or how does that work? They're spread out. They're all spread out.

Yeah, so you'll have six- But it's a three-year row, right, because you have a show. Right, you'll have six or seven main shows during the year, so they are spread out every six or seven weeks. Okay. So you'll have one show run for two weeks. two to three weeks it stops, another show comes in, you might have a workshop in between or something like that, but that's basically the schedule. We don't anticipate varying that. It's an all-volunteer organization, so we're pretty much at full capacity right now.

All right, so I'm going to open it up to the public only if anyone has any questions that they're not aware of or Believe me, today we got 32 letters, nothing like the last minute, which we can appreciate if we got it a little sooner. I'm going to give you a few more, just so you know. I read just about every letter, and we'll submit it for the record. So please, I don't want people coming up and speaking if it's going to be in support. We understand there's a lot of support, and that's great. But I really only want to hear from anyone who has questions about this application and the variances that were being sought or being looked for. obviously, if you have something against it. So, Joel, I think this gentleman was coming up first. So come on up, state your name and address for the record. I'll swear you in.

Good afternoon, good afternoon, good evening. Frank Arufi, 41 Eleanor Drive, Mayipac, New York, 10541. Raise your right hand.

So we're going to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so I hope you got it.

I do.

Okay.

I'm the owner of 73 Glenida Avenue, which is- Closer to the mic. Two to the right if you're facing Glenida, two to the right if you're facing, you're back on Glenida. Mm-hm. I have a driveway, it's connected to a parking lot immediately to my right. My only question is that one of the parking lots that you guys rented? It is not. Good luck to you. Thank you. Joel, come on up. I'm ready to swear you in.

Yeah, Joel, you don't have to get sworn again. Okay.

Two for Tuesday.

I think a lot of what you've been talking about is just about resolved. Speak up a little bit, Joel. I'm sorry. It's resolved. I'm the president of the Putnam County Housing Corporation, and we have a written agreement that's in process to allow the Broadway show people to use 34 spaces of our parking lot. We are not open on Friday night until Monday morning, so the times that the show is on our parking lot is basically empty, and we'd be very happy to accommodate them and at least allay the fears that you have that we're not going to give the parking lot.

Do you have to answer to a board, or is it just you as the president?

Well, actually we had a meeting, the last meeting we had, we voted to offer- I think I read that, okay. Yes, so our board has voted to offer the 34 spaces.

Joel is the president of the organization, they're approved, so most likely we'll do a legal- Yes, well we have a letter that's already been sent out, so the process is starting.

Will you grant them a perpetual easement?

Yes, yes. Well, as long as they're in business, obviously, yes.

So then there are only three short, and then I'm okay with that. Yeah.

Thank you. Okay. Thanks, Joel. Anybody else wish to be heard? I need that thank you on the record.

But the record's short. Somebody said thank you.

See, these are theater people. They're applauding. Those have not been applauding.

Sir, name and address?

David Sweet, 13 Glenna Drive, Carmel, New York.

So we're to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so I hope you got it.

I do. I just was listening to the discussion about the parking, and I know a lot of the times when we would park for the Drew Church performances, which is only a few blocks up the street, We would park on the large, massive public parking lot, which is behind the courthouse, which is only about two blocks from the proposed sidewalk.

Which is also opposite hours of what performance times will be. All right. That's a good point. Thank you. All right, thanks. All right, anybody else? Again, we know most of you in support. Just let it be, but... Oh, guys, you got to put your... Sir, just put your name and address and your contact information on that. Joel, we have yours. Yeah, I think he left. Just come on up, man. Just speak into the microphone, please. State your name and address.

Sue Simpson, Two Sunset Ridge, Carmel, New York.

Turn the microphone down to your mouth, please. Thank you. Hold on, I've got to square you in. Raise your right hand. Swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God.

I do.

Go ahead.

My question is about the parking lot itself. You've changed from asphalt to gravel. Are you still going to be doing the drainage?

That's a question for the architect, but I don't think, yeah, it's existing as gravel.

Yeah, it's existing.

It was always existing, right? So what we're currently proposing is a small area towards the front of the building for a handicapped space and the striped area for unloading and curbing. then also an apron from Fowler Avenue in that amount of new impervious area is far below the 5,000 square foot threshold that would require stormwater mitigation

Okay, so it's not.

The new impervious area is very small.

Yeah, it's not going to change drastically.

The whole site is not going to be paved. At least we're hoping to get a variance to not have to pave. I saw drainage in your plans. That's been changed.

Ma'am, you've got to speak into the microphone.

I saw drainage in your plans online. No?

No.

Colort?

No.

Okay. Okay.

You have the drawings right there, right?

When you were planning to pave it, we were never planning to pave it.

All right. That's for planning anyway.

There's actually a comment from Mr. Fulcetti's memo to the planning board that says should we have to pave it, then we need to go through the MS4 process of obtaining. True. Yes. But because we are below this threshold and we are hoping to not have to pave the entire site, That requirement would not be, that wouldn't have to be a requirement.

Right, okay. That make sense, ma'am?

No.

Okay. So basically. They're allowed a certain amount of impervious.

I own a building next door, and I know it's a very swampy area, and when it snows or it rains heavy, you're going to have a problem. I'm just warning you. Where are you going to put the snow? If you put a fence on both sides of the property and you have less space than normally, where are you going to put the snow?

That's a town of Carmel requirement. What? Snow? No, the fences.

The fences.

The fence is it, but...

All right.

We have to provide a separation from your property.

Ma'am, you're better off going to the planning board when this goes back to the planning board because these are items that the planning board would have to contend with. We're just dealing with the variances here this evening, okay?

You don't want a fence. We won't put up a fence if they don't require it.

Yeah, just my recommendation is go to the planning board, please. Okay. Guys, I'm not supposed to have you guys talking to each other. It's supposed to address the board. All right. Anybody else wish to be heard? I know you're all positive. Okay. All right. Going once, going twice, going three times. I'll look for a motion to close the public hearing on this application. Do I have a second? Second. All in favor? Aye. Okay.

That's it.

All right, at this point, there's no input on any application as we adjudicate the cases this evening, so please pipe down. Joanne McConnelly held over one more month until September. We did the interpretation already. Number two, we did already. That's approved. All right, new applications. Daniel Ortiz, I'll look for a motion.

Motion to grant is amended.

Second.

So second. Any discussion? Second. All in favor? Aye. Okay, application number four, Bentavegna. Look for a motion.

Motion to grant.

Second. Second by Silvio. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. Granted. And application number five, Brewster Theater Company. I'll look for a motion.

Motion to grant with the condition that parking easements will be perpetual agreements.

And legally binding?

And legally binding.

Or legally bound? Do I have a second to that?

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Okay. um minutes uh we don't have minutes oh sorry july 30th look for a motion to accept the minutes from july 30th motion accept second second all in favor all right okay and a motion to uh adjourn this meeting this evening second second all in favor aye thank you guys