Planning Board - Regular Meeting

It's preparing spice. It's going to take you then to figure out what to do with the sound. So you live not hearing any new people. So there's nobody in the zoom meeting itself. who did. So, right now, I guess I'm just being sit, but I don't I don't know which one to be shutting off usually, but maybe

right now it seems to be all working. Nobody's complaining and I don't have anybody in the meeting at this moment outside who wants to join. Yeah, but but it is on live. It is on. So, as long as there's a recording, right? Yeah. Why not? So, we can call the meeting to order. Did I have the January 15th meeting minutes? So, here's a scoop on these things. I um cleaned my office this week. Yeah.

And I filed them and then I went to about a month ago I went to like just type them up, right? I could not find that piece of paper for the life of me because I don't like comp plan papers out working on those. I packed up everything to come here. I was going to say find them and they fell out of the comp plan papers. So, I've got them, but they're not typed. What I can do is um type them, send them around, and we can do a a roll call. Um okay. digitally if you want. We can put them on the next week's next week. Let's put it on next week. The next time make it easier. Yeah. Yes.

We don't have a permit law review, but we can I'll ask Erin for one. This is a very slow time. Just FYI. That means people aren't applying for building permits right now. So, we should be on that. You guys all should have gotten an email um a couple weeks ago that when the select board, right, we assigned um a building solar permit number, right? that went out to the Yeah, I got

so under the permit wall review, whatever happened with that guy that wanted to do an addition to his garage, did that fade? Um, well, we saw we saw that Aaron had given him a permit number and we said, "So, what changed? Did we ever find out who the act did we apply with the actual owners?" The name on the permit application, right? U, he said he changed the dimensions of his garage. So, he gave him a permit. Yeah. He did that. He small. He

made it small. when I was in um working on working on Kathy on the comp plan this week. Mhm. Um he showed me that paperwork. He did that. He changed the dimensions and he showed a quick claim deed that showed it was his property. Oh, cool. Okay. So, that was So then it just became a

CEO. Yeah. Good. Y So that's taken care of. That's good. So if we jump down to items in the queue for next steps in your packet, you have this this thing here. There seem to be something confusing about which ordinance was sitting at which stage of the process. Uh so those will add on separately review. That's pretty good. here. You can have mine, but I'll have to sign up today.

Um, and Rob and I talked briefly the other night about this as well. Yeah.

The one of the things, um, we talked about is making sure everybody's clear on which stuff we are in the process. Um, also I reached out to the main municipal water legal services because they're free. And I asked them a question about legal review of ordinance changes. I said, "Is it mandatory that a lawyer has to review every single change on an ordinance?" And they said, "Absolutely not. It is only required for our it's for our comfort at risk management." Right? Right? So, if you're writing a brand new ordinance and there's lots of ins and outs, you're going to want to have some of the employee review it. If you're making pretty minor changes and you don't want to spend the money on a legal review, you don't think it's going to make a big difference. If you want to take that risk, then you don't need to spend the money on the legal review. So, that's an option. Um, even though I said to him, I know we uh that Oxford comma, one little comma can change the entire meaning of a sentence, right? So, you have to be very careful if you're going to do that. So in your packet is this little note. This is the response from the main municipal legal review. Uh it just says legal review is generally recommended. They recommend a generally broken due diligence. Uh but as uh indicated is truly a matter of risk tolerance. I'm not aware of any statutory requirement for legal review of municipal ordinance.

I know that's helpful. That is helpful. I don't know if it's in our policy manual. I don't believe it's it's not in the planning board ordinance that says you have to do that. I don't know if we have that in the policy. any so given that we um sorry yeah I said that's a good question I've had that but yeah well it's a generally accepted practice but I don't think it's required and I don't know if we have a policy around that. So on this this thing um does this mean that we've already had legal review of the sewer ordinance solar ordinance and cemetery ordinance? No. Yes. Well, hold on. Well, is it not your

So, the sewer ordinance had originally legally reviewed originally. Yes. But not not since we had changed. So, here are the key changes. No, not the last. So I just changed that yes. So that so one of the things that people wanted to know is what are the key changes that you're doing to the each ordinance. Right. Which this helps you understand what the risk is moving forward. Right. Right. So on the sewer ordinance itself um we removed all mention of specific fees because every time there's a fee change, you'd have to change the ordinance.

Right. And so we referred everybody to the town step. We fixed some typos and blank spaces because I think we pointed out that someone took the state what the state recommended as a sewer ordinance and they literally cut and paste the town and there's a place in there where there was like blanks. So you're supposed to fill in these blanks for your town. Nobody filled them in. They just left them blank. So and that's the that's the surard we've had for the last 20 years. Okay. So we fixed the type of the blank spaces. We upgraded um food disposals like garbage disposals that you put in your sink. There was a requirement in there because that garbage goes into the sewer,

right? And they were I don't know one horsepower was there was a maximum uh you could put in there 20 years ago. Nowadays, if you have those garbage disposals are much bigger and have much more horsepower, right? So, we upgraded the horsepower to what the most common and that's if you're if yours goes out, you have to replace it. Meaning a lot of these homes have them already. So, they're not going to go out and just replace them. No. No, the in the ordinance the ordinance I think had a maximum oh max horsepower and it was up. Yeah, we increased for the new models, right? Okay. So,

they wouldn't be able to do that. They have no ordinance no longer restricting. Okay, now okay, that's clear. Um, and we've talked about defining the superintendent role as a person or entity operating the sewer plant. So that way any upcoming changes if the town hires a group to manage it, whether the town of Jay manages or whoever they hire, um, it wouldn't change the ordinance because we're calling them a superintendent and it doesn't matter who's behind that title superintendent. So this means that the legal re review was on the original document but not not necessarily the changes. teaching.

All right. Matter of risk versus reward. Do you want to spend a grant? No. I mean, I don't really have somebody look at them like that. Right. I think that's that's what's MMA is telling us. It doesn't look like we're doing anything illegal. So, I think we're okay. Well, you're not sub not substantially changing not changing lots and lots and lots of words and meaning. Well, and I think the solar ordinance that was reviewed last no forget which ordinance was reviewed that got that came back with a very very high legal charge sewer for a very small ordinance. It was I don't think it wasn't the sewer. I don't know.

I don't think it was the solar either because we didn't switch people then. Anyway, I forget which one, but Brian handed me this ordinance and said this cost us like $2,000 to review this or more. And I forget what it was. Ouch. Yeah. Yeah. and our past town attorney, I believe, had been a different rate and was a much lower rate. So now we got hit with an unexpected bill for that initial review. Um, and so like we're the last meeting said, they've exceeded the legal budget for the year. Therefore, they're not incurring any more legal expenses already this year. Yep. This year. Yes. From June to June because we have a large foyer request for May.

Yeah. And as Diane said, I think this law firm does charge more an hour than our previous. So I think we have to make a decision whether for example on the sewer ordinance do we want to determine that we think there's minimal risk to these changes and we can go ahead and schedule a public hearing and move it along the process. It's not So, it's already been approved by the board of selectmen.

Nope, they haven't even looked at it. Oh, okay. So, it doesn't have to be. Well, the process is is after I because we determine that we want to put it out for public review, public hearing, we can choose we can request them to put it on the town warrant at the next town meeting. they can choose to do that or not. If they say we don't want to put it on the town warrant, um in the past we've gone and got petition and got enough signatures to put it on the warrant anyway. So, it's up to it's really up to I mean hopefully we're all working together on it, but right

it doesn't always happen. This must be the old. So those two should be uh they're ready to be reviewed for a town meeting, right? We think the sewer I mean sewer and solar. Let's go back for let's finish sewer for once. We think we think the changes are have minimal risk, right? Do we want to move ahead to a public hearing? I would.

Well, somebody should motion that and second if you do decide. I would motion it for all those in favor. All those in favor. All those in favor.

Good job, D. Okay, then let's look at the calendar and pick the date for the location. Can we group these and then a public hearing for several of them? Um, you can um let's see the date on the calendar for one and then we'll see if we can group. Do we think we're ready with the other ones because there may the others there may

we need to have if papers contacted tomorrow it will go in the notice next week that requires two weeks of notice before that public hear on the 19th. We're looking for the ornaments. So, we could do it probably the first week in March. Probably. Um I'm going to be out of town. I can connect to our meeting on Zoom, but I won't be here. I'm going to be out um from the 6th to the 19th of March. You're coming back on the 19th.

Yeah. So, we could schedule it for March 19th. But I land at 4, so I'll get here quick as I can. But if you still have a quorum. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

But I'm sorry. We were looking at the 5th or the 19th. Well, Don's going to be out on the 5th, right? No, she No, I'm going to be at the meeting on the 5th. I'm leaving on the 6th. Okay. So, I'd be I'd be connecting on Zoom because I'm not in California, but I'm going where you I'll be in San Diego. I'm going with you. So, you want to branch you for the 5th of March? Yeah. Up to you guys. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't Well, we had we had a meeting then that day anyway, right?

Yeah, we can start with a public hearing and then move into Yeah. Yeah, that's fine.

Okay. So, is it easier if we just keep that as one ordinance at a time or Um well I think it depends on how much time you want to put into them. Let's let's go back to the list of possible for a second. Um the planning board ordinance which I can fill out but that's um I think we felt that that has not had any legal review but again we felt like all we had was the alternate role. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's fine. So we thought that was wrong. Maybe we could try to do those two at the same time.

Sure. on a motion. A motion to go ahead and do that. Second. Yes. All those in favor.

Well, so far we're doing the sewer and the planning board. All right. Silver Bernness, we have had um uh I had one question that I wasn't sure about yet, which was the um the adding the appeals board language right after we like scrambled to do that. That whole ordinance this last year has been a scramble because

the language within there was fine. We we could have as a planning board we could have responded to the adminification request and didn't require a select board didn't require the appeals board. None of that was required according to the ordinance and we could have responded right however that would have done would have gone um we looked at other towns solar ordinances none of them have really need to be there and we have some we have a number of ordinances of our own town that do not have appeals for them. So it's not every single ordinance needs to have an appeals board in there.

Um so I think we had it we talked about just submitting that back to the for the next round with just the andor language fixed. Um and the fee schedule took out anything fees. Um we we had considered some language on appeals board but I think the last time we talked we said let's take it out but I just I don't think we voted on that. So, I just want to make sure that everybody's in agreement or not on do we admit the solar ordinance. I thought we did vote on that on taking the appeals language out. Yeah, I think so. We talked about it. Yeah. Yeah. We have to check. Well, let's vote on it.

I think we should take the appeals language out and I move to do that. I second it. All those in favor? Okay. Does not even agree with it. Okay. So, I will um that's just to make sure that the appeals language is out of it. Right. So, I'll bring that up and I'll resend that to the select. Because we already fixed the and or or problems. I think that's what was Yeah. getting back and forth. So, and there's no reason to have an appeals. You shall do this.

You know, I shall not. So, do you um do you want to schedule a public hearing for that? Um, we should, but I think there's going to be more discussion about that in the public hearing for that. I don't know if you want to build that all together. No. Yeah, probably a different day. Probably maybe the 19th. Maybe in April. Yeah. Or maybe in June. Well, so the trick the trick, Lynn, is that if you u it has to go through this public hearing process before it can be put on the town meeting warrant. The town meeting is in June. That warrant is set usually in April or May. Yeah. Oh,

so I know. So that's this is why you have to kind of back up the whole process to get to the same thing. So you could do it March 19th would be a regular schedule meeting. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think it'd be kind of too much for everybody to talk about putting too many in one one meeting.

Make a motion for second. All those in favor for March 19th. So then let's go over to cemetery. You're going to need in there. Can you tell them? Absolutely. Okay. Set her free.

I like this. I have to say that. I really like this new one, but it is not Canton because, and I know most of you aren't involved in the cemetery like some of us are, but our town sex is not a town employee. He is a third party person, meaning the funeral homes face him. The town does not. We don't. All he does is comes and checks where the the town sells the plots. He comes to double check who bought it, where you are, where you can be and all that.

Is but he will not. So it's got in there about keeping records and all that. I know he won't. He'll quit if he has to do that, but he's not. The office needs to be the one still in charge of selling plots, keeping the records, all that. Okay. Okay. So, let's go through the list of duties under cemetery sex. Yeah. And we can separate out. He just digs. He just digs the holes. The holes. He digs the holes and then he turns in the certificate of cream or the paper he gets with the

ashes or whatever. Then he turns that into the town office. That's all Larry does. Okay. So, this has none of that's changed. That's been in the ordinance forever. This not No, not these duties. Has not. Okay. Not the old one. No. No. He doesn't. And has never had to submit regularly. He does prepare and maintain the updated flat map office. Does it? Has they just sold one yet? busy. Oh, he does the supervising the internments, opening, closing of each grave, embodies in the graves.

I hope to God we don't have that, but yeah. Sorry. Okay. Does he prepare any kind of cemetery activity? No. No. And so it deliver what certificate does he deliver? Oh, you have to ask. Certificate of burial. Yeah. burial content as it comes with your remains like a jail certificate thing

sort of. It's on a big just like your marriage license or your vehicle title. It's on that type of legit legal paperwork that he fills in of where what cemetery they got, you know, they now live in and all that. he has to document and he can't fill that out till once they're it's done.

Okay. Okay. So, under section 11, recordkeeping, let's say, let's take all the record keeping stuff out of that first paragraph and let's put them all under 10, which is record keeping, and put in there the town office will be responsible for maintaining map and record related to the town. The town office don't annually provide copies of map and records. Yeah. for inclusion in the town. So the the town shall update copies of maps and records as needed.

That's too responsibility. So he does the second section doesn't provide regular reports either, right? No. All he does is turn in that paper. Yeah. That is something for that certificate. Yeah. So was he appointed or hired? Yes, he is appointed. Okay. Yeah.

He does it for Canton and Jay. I think those are the only two towns he does it for now. for overseeing the following aspects of all. Okay. So, here we go. Okay. Supervising. in the open side county. Okay.

So he wouldn't be the one preparing an account of all cemetery activities. That's office, right? The office. Yeah. which you know they keep a record of the vital statistics like of how many pass in town and all that. Who has the record that says lot number 42B has Mrs. Brown in it? Oh no. Which cemetery would you be talking about? The office under court. She buys a lot. I could buy that lot and let you be buried there. Buried there. Yeah.

But there's no That's why you talked about the section 8. It needs to be documented because like I said now the other cemeteries we have maps of who resides where. Pine Grove to a point is the only map is of who bought that. Because you know I by a lot say I have extra space I died Diane really can't come in and say oh I'm going to be buried so keeping track of who's in what us check the obituaries daily

besides my mom I mean and her find a grave website me I will flat out tell you because we've just had a read an obituary somebody passed that's going to be in Pine Grove. Okay. We know they don't own a lot because we know everybody there. His grandparents own a lot. Well, they just So then we check with some of the rest of the family that's still alive. Did you guys know this? Is there room? cuz we know there are several babies in that lot that are unmarked. Oh.

And I I don't mind working in cemeteries, but digging up I'm that's bad juju. So we've double checked with family on that situation. So but the town doesn't keep track. The sant doesn't keep track. Just keeps track. Yes. Yes. Because Pine Grove back in the day was an association. Okay.

Till everybody but one passed away. Then the one lady that was still living and secretary of it brought the box of what paper she had in and said, "Here you go, town." And all they kept track of was who bought the lots. Is that the one down here on 108? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we've Yeah. So, but like I said, all the rest of you can't keep track of that. Somebody has to. You should. They should have. Yes. In my book. Yes. But like the rest of our 13 cemeteries, I can tell you as far as we know who's in all of them,

but time and I mean I So, as we expanded that last year, I cleared all those trees. I know it moves into a new section. Can we institute some perhaps new procedures? Yes. Yeah. And that's something we are getting in my opinion close to open another lot or two or section or two because you think about how many we have left and how many available I've done reporting how and my parents are buried there. Yeah. With doobie noise. Yes. because I had to check that lot to see if there was room for one more altar then. Who? Kathy asked a couple years ago. Oh, that was for me.

Oh, because Kathy's going to be buried in I mean I want to be buried there. No. Yeah, we had to go check for Kathy. We have any questions that come in to the office as a rule with occupancy? They get referred to me. So, do I have to do anything special? As long as your family does. Okay. Well, I just didn't know if I have to do something. And what? So, I have started. So, we were just discussing the ordinance. Yeah. Yeah. But for No, but that's something obviously your family should have. Okay.

Well, I I got a question. And it says Canton Mountain. Legend has it. Supposedly there's one up there. Nobody knows. There is. Well, yes, there's people Batman's been pray to where they pretty sure it is, but there's no stones visible because there was a village up on top of the map back in the day. Oh, yeah. Cuz see, I have right here mountain cemeteries. Yeah. Where where is it listed in here? Oh, here we go. Legend has it. Legend has it. Yeah, that was But it's okay.

Yeah. So, but I know of several people that have been up there. Yeah. So, so we have no idea what families may or may not be there. Good. And I have so on the top page two, section six. section six. We corrected the prohibited activities based on feedback at last year's town meeting. Y right. So we took out uh if we left picnics, you can now picnic at the cemetery if you wish. Uh horse plays there, the riding of motorized recreational vehicles

um including but not limited to snowmobiles and all vehicles. Yeah. But I would take out with the permission without the permission of the sexton because you'll never get a hold of him on sea at the end of that. Well, would the tech town office get permission? Like what if somebody was an So the head of the ATV club dies and all the ATVers Yeah. Brian, yes, he will be there, right? But all the ATV people see it want to show up in their ATVs decorated with something to honor. I think that should be allowed.

Yeah, definitely. And I've seen motorcycles, you know, so motorcycles is not considered a recreational taken off. Motorcycles are already removed from the Yeah. Okay. Office. Just don't go party in the winter time. Right. Okay. So glass bottles cemeteries on monuments and graves. That's those were all those were all in there before. Yeah. So the thing Ron that we added from the cemetery ordinance that you gave us was really mostly section 8. Y can I ask about can you back up to E?

Do we need to change the permission of the senator in E as well? Yeah the town office.

Thank you. Y thank you. Good catching. I just need I will go through and look for every time we use the word sex and make sure we're not giving jobs for which he's not willing to hurt. I do like spelling it out. Payment in full is required before anybody can be married. Okay. Okay. Where you at? Section seven. Uh DF. Okay. Yeah. You don't walk up to your car with your groceries without paying.

Yeah. Because other towns have had it, which they'll take payments, but somebody starts paying and then okay, their loved one gets buried, then why bother paying it off? And we looked at that ordinance, too. said, "Okay, that the right of internment interment was something that seemed applicable." And because I could see people fighting potentially families saying, "Well, grandma bought that plot. She ended up getting buried somewhere else. There's this plot that grandma paid for. She owns it. Who has the right to be buried?"

Or if a parent wants to deed their right, maybe they now decide they bought two lots. Now they're going to be cremated, put into the same lot. They've got an extra lot they've already paid for. Do they give that to one of the children? You know what I'm saying? So this basically says the right of internment is assigned to the individual who's purchased or inherited the right of the purchasers own the right of internment but does not own the property. Just the right to use one or more specific various sites subject to the policies, rules, regulations. So I don't know. Somebody can't say well we own four plots here. I'm going to put up a she shed on this property, you know, because you own the right to be buried in that ground. You don't have ground.

Yeah. They don't have to. There are a few older deeds for Pine Grove lots that have been registered with the South Paris, but yeah, but no, I mean, you don't get taxed on it or anything, so Okay, section 11. Well, maybe 10 now.

Go back to eight in one second. So, we finished up eight. So, the second piece was um inheritance. So, if you come in and say, "Well, my grandmother wanted me to have that plot of land, you've got to show that right to that inheritance, something that documents them."

Um, but on death of a plot holder, the heirs of such a person must file with the town clerk for the purpose of correcting the record. So if grandma dies and he's for some reason not using that plot, somebody from the family's got to come in and say this plot has now been assigned to granddaughter or that's it. The town has no obligation to repurchase the right of internment from the original purchasers or their heirs. So let's say grandma dies, she's buried somewhere else, we don't need to buy it back from you. That's right. Is there anything else, Robin, from the other ordinance that you No, I really like that.

I just see a must prove their legal inheritance rights to buried rights before.

Um, so opening and closing of graves, nothing changed. Tide stones nothing changed except the last line but we don't the select board does not price the sexton services he sets his price take that and we have one of the lowest priced options around that say excavation burial services are priced by the sex yep Yes.

Okay. So on number 10 now nine then you're done. It's better. So Oh well yeah the sex didn't have the right approve the markers should be put in. So that's in there. No, you pick it in your law says location with headstones, lot markers and corner markers shall be approved by the senator set prior to placement. Is he the one who takes care of that or the title?

No, nobody. You do. You do. It's you and the monument company. You pick you buy your spot and you pick if you want it front, middle, back. So, it should be approved by the individual owner and the That's a given. If we don't That's a given. If the No, you shouldn't have to spell that out. Okay. So, you just said though the the um lawn owner, funeral director, whoever you order your I say funeral director because people here either buy from WS or Finley, whoever they have their funeral with. Okay.

But the the lock markers, the corner markers, who who determines those? the dimensions of your active law. Is that the same? The dimensions of the law. Whoever they call and make go measure it. Okay. Because I've had to exact. So, no, not as a rule. The the uh whoever you buy your markers will address that and show you where they're at. Okay. Well, that should be somebody in the town. be directed by. So, who's it directed by? Lot markers and corner markers. It's on the map by the town the lot map. The town's lot map.

Yeah. Divided by the lot map because when you buy your lot, you're buying a one, two, three by the town's lot map. Yeah. Okay.

We say in conjunction with Okay. With this. Okay. So this it says the location of headstones, lot markers, and corner markers. That doesn't have anything to do with the headstone. That's that is that are headstone. No. No. On the town's map, the lot markers are on the town map, right? Corner markers. Corner markers. Quarter markers mark your lot. You buy this lot and then you buy the mark. You put them in on yours. It has nothing to do with the office. They sell you a plot. That's it. Okay. But but somewhere on these maps, which I've never seen. Right. There's is that

somebody's got a lock unless you have key. But the headstone placement would not be on. Correct. Right. So, lot markers and corner markers shall be directed by the town lock. Yes. The town. And we say headston and they must be it seems like we should say something about the headstone has to be within your lot. That's a given. Yeah. You only buy that. Well, you know, you say that's a given. You say that very confidently. But buy this huge headstone that's going to go onto your neighbors. Well, that happened a year or so ago. We

So, don't we need to say that? I think yes. Why? And so what does it So you have a backup that it you go to the cemetery and then your your monument company will take care of that. We can only direct so much up there cuz I You're not have to direct anything. Yes. The headstone company can do it. But it's just reminding people that headstones have to be placed within your within your lot. Yeah. Where? Okay. Your rectangle. Don't

go over your border. Because a year or so ago, there were in section 11 and section 12, two bases poured. Happened to go up there and the base that was waiting for it stone in section 11, it stone was on section 12 and one of them was having a funeral that afternoon. Just happened to catch it. Came to the office. They called the family. The family called the funeral or monument company and it got moved before before. Okay. So So that that reads

lot markers and corner markers shall be directed by the town's lot map. Headstones must be placed within the designated lot boundaries. Yes. Okay. So on section 10, which was 11, it says the cemetery section shall be responsible for maintaining maps. You have Oh, you already got that marked, don't you? Look up here. Sorry. That's okay. Let me make it a little bigger. The town will be responsible for maintaining all maps and record related to the town. Okay. Cemetery uses it. I don't want to Is that okay? and reporting annually on deaths for the town's records. Okay.

All elevated memorials. Now, this has been interesting because it only we the we revamped the original cemetery ordinance some years ago and that was specifically asked to be put in and then last time around was specifically asked to be taken out. So what is it elevated? It's like a statue. The tall the statue. Oh. I think the original concern was that people had to put some stuff on very skinny bases and over time they tend to fall over and so it was causing a maintenance problem. But then other people said we don't want that in there at all. But you said they they for concrete bases for them now. Some do.

Okay. If they do that they should be fine. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. I don't think that's uh section 15. How are you going to enforce that? It says enforced by the slug board or their designate. If I decide to go dig a cremate hole for a member of my family in the dead of night and bury somebody in there who's going to which it would only be a cream if I were to do it by the way. How how are you what are you going to do? Make me dig them back up and pay somebody to redig it?

Well, it says in here though that you're not allowed to dig it yourself. There's a section that does say that. But how are you going to how are you going to enforce that? Because I know that's what the old one said. I'm just say I'm just using this or if you read the old one or somebody that he designates. That's the real issue here is we always come up with this against even like um yards that are a mess to be picked up. How are you going to enforce it? There's got to be a way for the town to enforce it.

Who's going to who's going to sit there and watch those cemeteries? Because I know of several and I'm just saying this is what's happened and that was part of why this got brought up again that someone that had worked in their younger days digging graves for the town of Canton, Peru and that had a he was the only worthwhile member of the family.

He was only worthwhile member of his family. His brother passed, was cremated. So why he's done that as a job? Why should he have to pay someone else to dig that cremate hole for his family? Well, because he's no longer doing it as a job. I mean, in reality, that's the truth, right? If he's not if it's not his line of work, then he should have to do no matter whether he's dug holes or not, he should have to do what every other individual would have to do, and that's get the sex tend to dig it. But how are you going to Okay, like I brought my sister's ashes back from Vermont. How are you going How can you Yes, this is what this is. It can't I can't, but I can go ahead and do it. So then,

so why do we even have ordinances? We can run under the state the state mandate. I'm just saying to a point this we're overregulating. Oh. Um cuz I look at it. I've put hundreds and hundreds of hours digging in, not digging, digging, digging in cemeteries, fixing stones and all that. If I'm good enough to go dig up all the stones and fix all this, you're telling me I'm not knowledgeable enough to dig a cremate hole. That's different. Why? It's a lot more vegan. Well, why?

But that's not my job. No, it's not. And it's again in the same situation that the gentleman is in. I'm not saying how to enforce it. I'm just saying did he come into the town office and ask them can I dig my own hole on himself. The thing is you have to have a guideline and this is just a guideline how to enforce it. I mean it says right here district court. You could go to district court but then the town's not going to go to district court. No, we understand that. But

can you okay the original from 10 years ago? This is what the original one said. It said this ordinance shall be administered, administrated, and by the selectment of their designate. That was in the original 110. A designate. So I could be a designate. Okay. Where is it? What what part are you looking at here? Right here. 111. Right. 111. Okay. The ordinance shall be administered and enforced by the selectman or their designate. So that's the same thing it says now, Robin. I don't know what the I'm I'm confused what your question is. Well, because it says back here and that only the sexing can dig holes. And that's the way it's supposed to be. I thought be legal.

No, no. I can tell you other towns that left family members do that. Really? Well, so if the ordinance can be administrated by the select their designate, why couldn't somebody just simply come and say, "Hey, I've got the experience and the skill. The sex is not available. I can dig the hole." They can give them the approval. Yes. Okay. So, they can administrate it. Yes. Yes, I would go with like it is up there or designate. Well, it does say that. It does the ordinance shall be administered enforced by this left order designate. But it Yeah, but a penalties like but if the thing is they need to come out there because you don't want to pay the sex.

A lot of people the people I've known that have done it, they don't come asked, but they should come asked because do they put a stone out there? Do they put a stone? go in a cemetery and start digging a hole in their law. Well, wait a minute. Do they do they put a stone? Yeah. So, the purpose should be them to come if they're going to dig it themselves anyway and they know they're allowed to do it if they get permission from the town. At least the town would have a record who's buried there. Yeah. Oh, they turned in the paper. So, let me ask a question. Qu question. So the last time this was revised um several people in town who were heavily involved in cemeteries had decided this is how it was going to be.

Yeah. So um do you think we should simply take out the penalty section? Yes. Yes. Okay. That's a simple solution. Now here we have no um there is no appeals section in this one because they felt like the town did this or is it it's done period. There is no dealing thing. Do it.

We can take out the board of appeals altogether. I mean we can put one in if you want to because the old one had one in. We decid I think when this was done a few years ago they said no it just the town minister said you're done. Period. You don't get to reveal anything. This is not like there's a lot of problems here because the town can decide. The town simply decides. I don't know what's the reason for appeals language, but Okay. How do you feel, Don? Oh, I don't think appeals board.

Yeah. No, but I'm I'm reading this section over and over here and I'm because it basically covers the the the the violation and provisions of this ordinance. That's the whole thing. Yeah. It's not just about digging your own grave. It's not about just digging your own grave. You can't go throw a rager in a in a cemetery and be okay with it. There's going to be penalties. Yeah. So, how do you really want to re you can't administer enforcement and appeal? That's what this is. It's okay. Well, we're taking we're not if we're not putting an appeal section in every

Where's the part that says it's okay to dig your own? It's not. It's a designate that have come out of that. The ordinance shall be administered and enforced. Okay. But that covers the whole ordinance. This the designate here is the select board can say Mr. Sexton you can decide if this guy can dig his own hole. Yeah. Okay. So they could he could they can delegate that accountability.

Okay. So do Okay. Okay. But where it says that the des okay that that that part of it should be where the sex is the one that digs the holes that statement should be in the other section. This section is basically saying if any person violates any provision of this ordinance where no I don't know why it says where no specific penalty is imposed by main law. you're deciding shall be punished by penalty. So you're talking not about just digging. You're talking about anything that's in this ordinance if they don't if they break the ordinance rules, I guess you'd say, then they could be punished.

Oh, you mean like snowmobile under So not that we would probably do that, but can I for a second? It says the se cemetery section shall be responsible for overs supervising all interments. Yeah. If he wants to hire somebody else to dig the hole and he does that covers that part of it. Yes, he does. Including the opening closing of each grade, supervising removal of vital grades and preparing a various certificate for submitt to the town.

Okay, so go back to section 15. How do you want to what do you want to do there? Because that has to do with the whole ordinance. So we have an ordinance. Okay. We do have an ordinance, but it's okay to go ahead and break that ordinance because nothing's going to happen to you is what you're saying. We have a lot of them like that. Well, that's the problem, though. Yes. I mean, we have had reports of suspicious vehicles up there in Pine Grove and all that. We've called the sheriff numerous times and that's taking care of it. Well, you could also encourage I mean, as a town, we could vote to spend money and put security cameras in the cemeteries,

but then who's going to like maintain them? Have security cameras on these buildings. How does a how does a I don't know that. How does a penalty get assessed? Who assesses it? That's it. Are you going to if you find me whatever it says $550 for burying my whoever how are you going to get that money? Are you taking me to small claims court? Are you putting a lean against my property? You know, where does that go?

Well, it said become purposeful in a civil action in main district court. So, you'd have to sue someone or file that these penalties have been assessed and this person has has not paid these penalties. Now, I'm going to take you to civil court to get those penalties. And that's what was written there initially. And the thing is, if the town has to take them to civil court, you've got the ordinance to back it up. I mean, you've got that statement to back it up, then the town should the burying people part. Yeah. People are having a reacher. Yeah. So basically riding inappropriate vehicles through the cemetery and attacking all the time like let's let's put the like ourselves but that's just

don't we want the opt do we want the option to say hey Mr. for motorcycle man. All you do is you don't get to do this anymore. 50 bucks, please. Oxford County. I'm just devil's advocate. We've done that both ways. I'm playing devil's advocate. Like, who's sending these bills out? But if we don't put that in there, what's to deter? And say, okay, say they were penalized 100 bucks and they didn't pay. Then you just okay at that point you take them to civil court right

um and if it's the ordinance and you can show proof that they had done that done what they weren't supposed to this the town of canon shouldn't incur any legal fees. Our thing is what we've done before is we just call Oxford County a name, you know, and I understand what you're saying, right? But we've nipped it in the bud, a lot of it, before we ever got to this, that's okay. You can continue to do that. But if it gets to the point where you it it's not working, you have to have something to fall back on. I mean, what what would the county charge him with? Is that fast or

I don't know. Yeah. Depending on what they did, trespass or like when they had a bunch of damage done down to J Hill. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Might be vandalism. Vandalism and all that. Do you want to How do we want to respond? The one the time we had a vehicle that was parking and visiting elsewhere. Oxford County, these are no penalties. Waited and said, "Don't Well, for instance, it says in here that you're not maybe a warning the first time, then the second time throw throw a penalty at them. Okay. What do you do to put he said? Yeah. Dan said it says in here no glass containers. Somebody goes out. But I know some

leaves a six-pack empty balls. Well, that's not acceptable. Now something's got to be done. But how do you know who put I don't I do drive through a lot. Yeah. But how do I know who put that on? Well, you don't. But if you see it, you should be able to do something about it. Security camera should go off. That way you can catch the person. No, the town can't put security cameras up on every cemetery. No, you can't. And no one

of monitoring it. And I know like some of your older people still put like lilacs in a glass jar on a grave because that's what has always been the family tradition. So you're going to stop them and I mean they go back and get it once the flowers die. So writing ordinance how you're going to tell someone they can't what they can and can't put on their grave. No, you can go up to one of them and diplomatically say due to the circumstances and possibly this glass thing getting broke and someone some child could be in the cemetery pick it up and get cut. Would you mind using something other than glass? Okay,

we need to use something other than glass. I'm going to task you with an idea. So for two weeks before Memorial Day, go up there every day and watch and see. Well, I mean, do people get copies of these ordinances at all? They do when they buy a plot. That's it. I mean, you could put an a onepage notice in the next couple criers, too, to say, "Hey, FYI, as we're approaching summer, as we're approaching summer, we um you know, we've done that.

I know. I know. I'm just saying in inform people and if they violate it, I mean, you said most people are respectful. They're not going to trash everything and we put it to be perfect by the ordinance. It used to say, you know, your fl your summer flowers have to be picked up by November 15th. Yeah. Go. Well, whenever we don't have snow, go look how many don't have never picked theirs up. I mean, and we've put it out there and put it out there.

You're pretty passionate about this. You're both pretty passionate about this. How do you want to resolve this? You know, I'm just saying to a point I I understand the enforcement, but you could look at this whole ordinance and any of our ordinances and it's like what's the point if if how how I don't have a leg to stand on? No, but how much can you regulate what I do with my loved ones grave?

I mean, where my daughter's buried in Indiana. Yes, they it's a cemetery association, so we can't use shepherd hooks. Anything during mowing season, which they obviously have a lot more mowing than we ever do, it cannot be in the way of them mowing. So, everybody's very respectful. But here, the thing I don't care what you do. No, I mean, I'm just saying you're you are writing giving your feedback. But I'm just saying you want to make a motion to put it in the enforcement. We want to do this. It's just how how can you enforce any of it because we see

you could say that about any penalty we get in any organ. And that's where you beat get tired of beating your head against the wall. I Yeah. I think leave it as as a backup. I mean if if something really really really bad happened, this town would have a leg to stand on. I mean, all this minor stuff. Okay. But if say say somebody went in there and vandalized a bunch of the stones and got caught that's a lot of money. Yeah. And then and then I just think it I I don't know. Okay. Let's uh have a vote then. Make a motion to leave. A motion to leave it in. I second that. I leaving it in. Yeah.

Only help out with Well, it's just it's just a security blanket. I mean, okay. You can't enforce it. Well, if it was something really really bad, then you guys are the cops. Period. Okay. But then the cop then it's in there. I just I guess I'm having a hard time about it. We can find somebody, you know, $500 or whatever. If they have done something horrible to one of our cemeteries, it's in their mouth. You know, some minor violations and stuff like that. Nobody's gonna Yeah, nobody's going to be sending out violations, I suspect, for things like that.

The select word feedback at the last meeting when we brought this forward a few months ago was that you had a new order from another town that you had a lot of sections you wanted to include. So, we've looked at it. We've included that stuff under the um uh permit. Yeah. Um and a couple other things. Is there anything else from the other ordinance we would like included this that was a big thing I and it was said since then come up here so it's good section six so people will be going to be here long I think that's because you as a town you have to say no no no glass no alcohol on every town property

yeah yeah doesn't and yes Somebody would want to be able to find somebody $500 if they took over a headstone. Hell yeah. I would say hell yeah. Wasn't there years ago a situation where somebody is in the Peru town of Peru where they were stealing headstones many years ago. What? So I mean things like that. Bad juju. Bad bad juju there. I don't understand. You don't dance on gray.

Well, why people vandalize? What do you What What do you get out of vandalizing? Stones over. I don't get back. I'm getting Can we go back to the or this chart now? Yeah, we're back on. I'm back on the chart now. Um, so clean that up a little bit. Look at it. So, we got that one done meeting. Yeah. Should should that go to the board of selectment for uh I think we went through the whole thing at this time, didn't we? So that's um right. Do we believe this needs additional legal review? I wouldn't really think so.

I'd say do as little legal review as necessary. I don't know about that the you know who owns the plot and well she I think that taken out that came out of town. They probably already did that legal

and we're copying it verbatim. Yeah, it' be fine. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? Do you think it's worth a legal review? I don't. No. No. No. I mean, if we're putting in something cuz No, that's off the wall. Really? But

I mean, do we have to send it to Bristol board before we set it for a public hearing? I mean, we'll do it simultaneously. I mean, we'd send them Okay. the updated version. Okay. And I have to please let them know that we're scheduling a public hearing on these dates. So, you're going to do the sewer and the ouch cemetery ordinance, right? March 5th. Oh, okay. And solar and cemetery

35 and then to um make a motion to go public hearing cemetery ordinance. You make a motion before it to go public hearing. So what's And then So that'll be on March 19th. The cemetery is on March 19th. Yes. Okay. So the soul is on March 19th, right?

That's 19th. 19th. Okay. 19th. Okay. Got it. Uh, cluster housing. There's a couple pieces I still have to check on. Pull that out. I don't know if we can bring that down, too. But we have a couple more. That one's new, isn't it? No, we we're pretty well through it. No, it's not new. It's a revision. It's a revision to an existing ordinance. Y Thank you. All right.

They do something in we're going out of that next Friday. Open my notes. Okay. I thought we could talk about

All right. Well, that gets us through. Now we're done. which so in our so this is our work schedule and checklist that we have on this Google sheet. It also has the uh I am providing to the select every couple weeks. Every time I go to their meetings, I give them an update on this where we are on the sheet.

Okay. So, do you have anything we can read? Um once we have We're getting close. We are getting We are really getting close. I mean, it's I know the world has asked to have as the chapters are completed have them provided and we said yes as soon as they're available since you I just know how horrible the old one is. Well, there's two different parts to this comp plan, right? One is the inventory which is all this history.

I don't even know if people need to see all that ahead of time because it's just it's really the next piece which is going to be a while before we get to the action plans and accountability. That's what we do with all this. Thank you. If people want to start reading inventory, that's fine. But if they start saying, "Well, that number of population isn't right for that year," then no. Yeah, that's not what we're asking you to do. You're not asking to edit those numbers. We're asking you to think about those chapters in the context of what the action plan is going forward. So, see, because I Well, I know the one I've heard the most concern of is the new one about the agriculture. Well, yes. Yes. Yes.

We got some direction from the state agriculture um group on writing that. Uh that's great. We've asked all the farmers in the town to contribute to that and they contributed zero information. So, we'll be happy to draft and share it out because I know what Brad had presented back when I was still on the board and part of that was very outdated.

That was my concern of just looking at it and like Um, so to catch you up on the stuff that I've been working on with ours, um, public facilities and services had recreation embedded within it, if you remember. So, I've taken that out and put it on its own document. Yes.

Now, and it's about I would call it 50% complete. I think it needs to be beefed up with more ideas. But I think that at some point, you know, we've had all these working sessions to like come here and work and get things updated. But I was hoping at some point we're just going to sit together as a team and read through and say, "Okay, what is this missing compared to the checklist?" Does we have a checklist for each section that we've gotten from uh Yes.

Yes. So each section has to have these things in it, right? So that it's close. These things are close, I think, for sitting and reviewing. Um the public services stuff I've started reaching out. I've copied you on the next people. Robin and I are meeting on Tuesday to talk about solid waste. So that's Yeah. Um it's yeah it's like there there's not enough words in that section right now. Um but I did work with Aaron to update all of the equipment

y that we have. Um so let's see that's recreation and public facilities. Is this does that include like school age children the the town recreation for the teams and stuff like that? I haven't gotten any. No, I've gotten as far as writing an introduction and then literally just pulling the sections out

and kind of word smithing some, but that's the kind of heft we need to add behind, you know, some of these things. There's family recreation and then there's children recreation. There's different steps of it. Um, like I said before, the existing and future land use, I'd like to redo those once we have these other documents in a better draft form. Um, and then one of the things I asked Diane to help me, this was actually your idea. Mhm.

Um I think it would be used in both existing land use, future land use, maybe recreation, but um to pull together a map of the town of Canton that identifies all of the land that the town owns. Exactly. Yeah, that'd be So she's pulled all those things. She's putting all those PDFs into AI um from J J O'Donald, right? And um we filtered out all the town kit and stuff. So she's working on that first and it's going to automatically print the map and highlight color in the areas. Yeah. Yeah.

It'll be interesting that we know you. Right. Yeah. Right. We could talk about potentials then. Yeah. If you had a visual like that. Yeah. Did that woman ever drop those maps off? Oh, she said she was going to mail them. Um, but I I'll reach out tomorrow because we never rescheduled the next few working sessions and so she wanted to come in but she couldn't come on the holiday. You couldn't come this past Monday. The next our next meeting is also a holiday. It would be March. So you want to work on I just put an growth plan, right? Yeah.

So put your new draft into that folder. Scroll up. There is a man. There's no So, we need to make a folder for economic growth. You know how to do that? Nope. Nope. Okay. Folder there. There you go. That does it. Yep. Perfect. Um, okay. So, then I can just drag and drop. Yes. Yeah. Okay, perfect. And then from there on out, come here to work on it. Okay. So, you're always updating the one that's out on the drive. Yeah.

Um, and you were going to get for me the population of the students, Canton students. Just a reminder. Thank you very much for that. So, I can update my chart. I think that's all I need. I'm still just kind of I'm plunking away at it here and there, but you know, the ones that I have, I think they're almost ready for us to sit and brainstorm together. Okay, what else needs to be in here? Right. So, we have a working session. Um,

this is another um I can copy it and then paste it.

We have open it. 16th, right? Is our next one. button.

So, we have two since visit Monday from 4 to 7 is a working plan. You say 215 right up here. 16th, February 16th. 16th. Yeah. The day before our planning board meeting, we're going to have an Oh, no. on the 16th. Same week. That's also holiday given it's President's Day and it's full vacation week,

which is it 16th and then the 25th. Oh, just show up when he stay for three hours last time. No, I'm just happy to kind of work on

Yeah. So, probably at our next meeting on the 19th, we'll have to set up schedule for March. Okay. And it would be fun if we could get anywhere near by April having like public engagement on the action. I think so, too. I think so, too. Come spring. Yeah. Now, I don't know that we'll be ready by town meeting because that's got to be done by early May. Yeah. And it has to be public besides the confirming sessions. You got to have a public hearing on that. You got

I feel like there's a lot that's at the town meeting. So, and if you really want engagement in in something this big, maybe something separate from the town meeting would be anyway eventually it'll have to be voted on at town meeting at a town meeting. Doesn't have to be on the June town meeting. Um, we could call one though. You can hold a special town meeting time. Yes. But I just I think some people got a lot of ideas about engagement and how we get how we can get some feedback because I don't know everything and people have a lot of ideas, right?

I'll teach you about the transfer station. I can't wait all about Tuesdays. That training I have to go to on Monday. Oh yeah. Are you going to be running it? No, but we are out of compliance with D on his trainings. He's very expired. So, one is now up to date and him and I are going to do this the second out of three Monday. Okay.

It's quite exciting. You have to save when you walk in there. You have to hit finish. be saving automatically. I have that same question. Um, but no, it should be because I couldn't find it. Could hit control S word. Okay. Um, but no, it should be saved automatically. Okay. Is there any other new business? Any other public comment?

Oh, what? Now you go quiet while I What's going on? It's like So, we'll just go over the uh the meeting minutes of the next meeting. You're right. to approve this minutes from this meeting of this.

Well, all I have to say is go fast. Yeah. Uh motion to adjourn. Second

if not guess what you said. Thanks. Yeah, there's a running bet amongst the kids in the house. But uh what time you get on the uh the state as if they're