City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening. I'd like to welcome everyone to the city council work session special meeting of Tuesday, April 14th. Call the meeting to order and ask for approval of the agenda. I move to approve the agenda as presented and ask that everyone be mindful of time so we can get through the agenda efficiently and a journal of a reasonable hour. Second. All in favor? Yes. Yes, sir.

Okay. So, first on the agenda, we have public comment. If you would like to make public comment, um you'll raise your hand when you come up to the podium. State your name and mailing address. Keep it under three minutes of kind and respectful comments. Is there anyone that would like make public comment that's in the audience? Raise your hand. Hi. Hello. Okay. Even though long meetings have been accepted as the norm, we need to acknowledge that drawing out meetings are bad public policy. I'm going to quote councelor Loser when he said in a previous meeting information about me is not transparency. I'll go one further with neither is a filibuster of an agenda. Last two Tuesday's meeting was had 18 agenda items and by hour two we'd only just gotten to the third item. This meeting standard is more than is more the norm than the ex exception. There should be an aotted time for each item that will all stay on schedule. Presentations are often just reading from the packet that's already available for counselors and citizens to educate themselves. Poor meeting structure and lack of a clear actionable agenda leads to disengagement. It's been proven study after study that long meetings drain productivity. You experience brain fatigue and you cannot maintain a high level of focus after around the 1 hour mark. Without a timed agenda, conversations become unfocused, circular, and alus often waste time. I have a joke in my shop when I'm watching a city uh meeting and someone talks I say hey I was watching the shows as a number one fan of city politics and you all have managing to lose the top one of its top viewers I often uh take breaks watching chunks I imagine the city staff council would love to make things run more efficiently also who's considering

adding a time agenda in the future meetings maybe add this discussion to the next agenda let's keeping everyone engaged interested and awake It's just good public policy. Thank you so much. Thank you. Anybody else nodding? Is there anyone on Zoom who has raised your hand? Yeah. Randy. Randy Neil. Can you hear me? Can

uh Randy Neil, PO Box 1092. I was disappointed in last week's ebike discussion, and I understand it's not fair to expect counselors to be fluent in all topics, but it would have helped for uh to have a a better staff report. The bike shop owner brought this topic up 6 months ago, but it was clear there's been no understanding of his plan or the bike ecosystem within Cana Beach. Many of last week's points were misguided. Can a beach really can't support more than one bike shop. No one else is coming. Mike's bikes barely scraped by. And once he closed in 2014, the bike the town had no bike shop for over 10 years. No one came, not even the seaside shops. There is no winter business. The fun cycles became the ugly stepchildren. They get moved from place to place dismally over the next couple of years. Ian came to town and made a business. fun cycles, repairs, and some regular rentals. He has some good ideas. Now he has a few people coming and asking for a service. Ebikes, the new regular bike. Will it be a big business? No. Storage space is limited. The capital cost is high. It's $1,500, $2,000 a bike. It's not in his best interest to put ebikes on the beach. Are they large and heavy? No. Go see some examples in his shop. Take a test ride. Safety education wording via ordinance is unnecessary. It's already required for his liability insurance. Bike usage in town is abysmal. The TSP traffic count data um you know the counts at each of the intersections. For example, Gower and Hemlock, First Street and Hemlock gets 10 to 20 bikes during the peak hours of noon time. Car trips are 870. Pedestrian crosses are over 500.

I've amassed only about 20 names of regular biking locals. Summer visitor traffic has basically been flat for 5 years now. We're gridlocked in summer. This program has very natural limits. Um, you know, wouldn't it be better for bikes to be on trails and think healthy, think the poop pond and Elm or the Ocean Avenue Laurel. This doesn't have to be on Hemllock. We now have at least three buses arriv arriving in town during high season. The point bus plus uh two of the North Coast Expresses. They're advertised leave your car uh at home and take the bus. This is what we want. A simple rental program. It would be perfect. The hotel bikes suck. Um this is what's driving his inquiries on rentals in the first place. AI can estimate the sizing requirements across the five sizes and downtime and size mismatches. A bike cap of 10 doesn't isn't really workable. 10 couples coming off a bus bus might be mean 20 or 25 bikes are really needed. Uh we should be supporting our local businesses and vice versa. A beach whale chair location might be a very viable partnership um with a bike shop. What does a David's chair program need to succeed? I'm sure the tide shut schedule um for a wheelchair program is the same as used for the fund cycles. I know he's uh talked to the police about um um getting the parking aids or the information aids on ebikes. They can cover twice the ground across town. they can get up to Hill stack haystack hill and work the issues there and then they can come back to pedal around for another 40 miles the next day. Um he also approached the hotels to be a support arm for them. Um

but no luck yet. Uh heck he might even be willing to manage a downtown shuttle or the town shuttle. We've talked simple trails and visible bike ma bike maps. I think there's plenty of good ideas to be had. Thank you. Anybody else on Zoom? Anybody on in the audience? Okay. Thank you everyone. So, our first item of discussion in David's chair.

Yes. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Um, councelor C requested staff invite Jeff to share information about the program. David's chair. um he is on Zoom and we also have Randy Schaeer who's the owner of Hexer and Bristol LLC who's expressed an interest in having a David's chair at the shop. So we'll start off talking to Jeff. Jeff, good evening. Good evening. I uh give me a sec. There I am. Okay. Uh can you hear me just fine?

Yes, I can. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me to be a part of your meeting tonight. Uh I think I best start with an overview of what David's Chair is and what we do. Uh David's Chair is a nonprofit organization based in Medford. We provide electric all-terrain track chairs for anyone with mobility issues to use free of charge. And we do that by grant writing and fundraising to buy the equipment in the first place. But then uh our locations are community partnerships based on what a community wants, what's available in a community as far as partnerships. And so we're a small enough organization we can be creative and nimble about how we partner. Uh in some places we partner with a m municipality. In other places we partner with just community organizations. In one place our partnership is with the Elks Lodge. and another it's just a guy who owns an RV park and wants to uh wants to provide access for those in his community. So it it changes depending on the location. So we'd be interested in having conversation about how we might bring a a chair to Canon Beach and make it available for folks with mobility challenges. Um the basic overview is we in order to partner we need three things from a a community. We need a safe secure place to store the chair and keep it charged. It is electric. It needs to be charged when it's not in use. We need a staff or volunteer core that will check the chair in and out and and do some light cleaning of the chair when it's it's done. And then we we do need some funding to help provide this for users free of charge. We do need funding to help with our uh maintenance, our insurance and the administration of our reservation system, but that takes different forms in different communities. So, uh why right the overview for us right now as an

organization, we have 17 locations in five states. 10 of those locations are along the Oregon coast. Uh we have one coastal location in Washington, one coastal location in the redwoods in California and then the rest of our locations are inland. We do uh our locations are function in two different ways. One is a fixed site location where there's a a track chair that lives full-time and is used in that location and the other is a towand go program. We have three locations that are towando locations where people can take the chair and a trailer for up to a week free of charge. So, it's a it's a uh in the heart of our DNA as an organization to provide outdoor access for those who've historically kind of been denied access to the outdoors and a lot of times the beach. Do you have any questions? How this I'm I was hoping this would be a conversation, not a lecture.

Questions? Um so you you mentioned uh there are three things location uh people maintenance and then timing. what what sort of funding is uh is typically required

to so we have uh about $7,000 annually covers our reservations system our uh maintenance for the location and coastal locations the maintenance is pretty significant and then also our insurance so in in considering a location in Canon Beach I believe that uh Randy from the uh Surf and Crystal shop is I've talked with him earlier this week and I think that that might be a location to for us to consider and I believe we've had conversation with the friends of Hastack Rock and they have a grant to to uh work with us possibly provide that that funding that we need but um yeah then none of that has sort of solidified yet and we'd be open to have further conversation. I believe we do have a friends of Pac Rock does have a grant for three years of painting for uh but

yeah that that's u my conversation with Lori Dilly has has uh but their their grant is also for other things too as well right? Well she told me to pass that on so Okay. So yeah, great passing on there is enough funding for three years that wouldn't cost whoever was hosting the chair would cost them anything for change that amount they had is short we can we can subsidize it if it's necessary

or continue it after the brand is over. Yeah. What what is needed for storage?

Uh what's needed typically is an indoor dry space so that it it's not in the weather. Um and it needs to be have access to electricity so that it can stay charged. And the the the batteries are two marine grade batteries that run the chair and they they take a bit of electricity to charge and then a trickle charger to keep charged. And that's all part of the chair's mechanics itself. So it's it's a very small expense, maybe between $3 and $5 uh a month in electricity. Not not very much. And what's the square footage on that? Is there one or two chairs or

was it 8 by10? Is that what you had in the So most of our locations have an 8 by10 tough shed with a 4ft door opening. Um and having a a larger door opening. the our track chairs are 42 inches across and so they're a little wider than a normal uh power wheelchair or something like that other devices. So they do need a little bit wider um door space to to get in and out of a storage space. But indoor inside storage is a is um is what we need in order for it to stay out of the weather. So it doesn't it doesn't need climate control. just needs better and access to electricity, right? Correct.

And your organization actually links the reservations. Is that right?

Correct. We have a a what a reservation system on our website and all of the reservations are managed. Um the res the way reservations look, if you go to our website, you can test it out, make a test reservation if you'd like. um on the front page of our website, there's a link at the top that says request a chair. You click on that, it opens up a page that has all of our locations. If you click on the location you're interested in, it opens up a calendar and shows availability and then you fill out a brief form to request a reservation. Once that's submitted, then the the user will get a automatic reply with a link to our waiver forms. Um, our system is set up that so such that it takes about seven days to to make a reservation. So, it's not something you can do today and show up tomorrow typically to do. It's um it's a little more complicated than ordering at Starbucks. So, um uh so since we're dealing with VI uh distances, we have our our reservation specialist is fully remote, but each of our locations is dealing with volunteers and volunteer coordinator. um the communication and getting the forms filled out. It takes seven days for us to to secure a reservation. Once that's the waiver forms are done, the individual will receive an email and saying your con your reservation is confirmed. Here's the location, here's the time, and here's the contact person for for your reservation. So,

and the insurance for the gates share, you guys as well. That is that is included in the $7,000 annual. Yes. Yep. I'm sorry. What about maintenance? Um, how often I mean, do you send someone out to maintain them? How often does that happen?

That would be me. So, I uh I'm the operations manager when maintenance is included in my uh expectations. So, um yes, we uh I'm I'm nearby. I actually am in Pacific City, so covering the all of the coast. So, I'm very frequently through during the summer and stop and make regular maintenance checks. I respond if there's maintenance concerns or issues that come up and um then we do we do regular twice a year uh maintenance on the chairs that's a little deeper. The the volunteers we ask to to do light cleaning. We provide a leaf blower usually with our chairs because that we find that's the most efficient way to get the sand out and off of the chair for storage. And um but yeah, the the basic maintenance and then the more uh elaborate maintenance we we provide that.

Thank you. Yeah. Any other questions? So I'm wondering if Randy would like to come up and and short you can sit down. Just don't get too comfortable. All right. Hi.

So, yeah, we've already um been in contact multiple times. Um they first came into the shop last year asking, but I was kind of just had a partnership going on and so really couldn't give him a solid answer. Um David Sher reached back out this year and now that the company is fully mine, I told him that I'd be interested in hosting it. I already rent out beach wheelchairs and I told them it'd be nice for the community and people visiting if we had one to offer for free because I have had inquiries about if we had electric ones or not. So I told him I'd be interested and so we've talked all the details and it doesn't really seem to be any issues with getting set up. I think storage might be the only one that just he said he'd stop by next week, check out the shop where I planned on storing it. Make sure it's big enough. And if not, then we'll probably have to go to plan B and um set up a shed outside. And on the side of the building, there's enough space where we could do an outdoor storage shed in as well. So,

and your um lot from G. Yes. That's Yeah. Yeah, and I I think they'd be a good addition, like I said, for the community and the shop. Um, I'm already trying to build a fleet of wheelchairs. So, I got two now. I'm looking at a couple other ones. And if I could get the left burn in there too, I think it'd be really good for you know I do believe that um funds like this also has expressed interest if something didn't work out that there's another place that has expressed interest in hosting. Yeah. An 8 by10.

Yeah. have storage in or storage inside is less than 8 by10 because I believe that um Randy didn't you say that an 8x10 storage shed holds four units or did I misunderstand that? I'm sorry. I'm Yeah, you asked Randy. I'm sorry. No. uh an 8 by10 storage shed because of the maneuverability is really big enough for just for two. Um yeah. So um but in a number of our locations an 8 by10 shed is what we have just for one.

Yeah. Yeah. And I do believe I got storage inside the shop. I just got to make sure that it's going to be easy to get in and out the door. We're just going to be doing so check on it. Is it is it bigger than ADA like a a typical ADA requirement? It is. Yeah. Yeah. Anybody have any other questions?

Yes. Um, in conversation we had with Randy um he is looking to increase his fleet and as it happens we have two two chairs that are still in the crates and we were talking about doing anou and having him manage the uh rent the rentals. So he's looking to u really provide a broader service which is great. We may be able to work something out. That would be great. Yeah, they've been sitting around for a while. Yeah.

Okay. Anybody have any other questions? So, thank you, Jeff.

Okay. We have the uh open terrace rehabilitation project. Well, I am just going to introduce Dan really quickly and then we'll let some of his team members come up here. Okay. So, this is Dan Brown from the executive director of the community the action team. He and his team today are uh here to give you an update the El Creek Terrace rehabilitation project. So, uh, I'm going to let him and his team, uh, give the presentation. We're all available for questions if you have any, and I'll just let Dan take it away. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Thanks again for having us back. I'm going to have to ste up here. Um, a lot has happened um, in some ways since we were here before. We're going to give you an update on that. Um, probably the biggest update, the biggest, maybe the smartest thing we've done so far is hire Steven and his crew. Steven is with um great development. His wife Jill is also part of that team and she's here as well. And I've got Jamie who seen before Jamie's back and brought Heather our housing program management um as well for any questions that come up later in the presentation and my wife's just here to keep me in line. Um, but we have made, you know, some progress. A lot of it waiting game and Stephen's going to explain that way better than I because he's been here a number of times. Um, we'll run through the presentation very very quickly. Um, a lot of it's just kind of a recap of what we've you've seen before just to kind of bring up a speed and then probably most importantly we'll get into that Q&A and you guys can ask us, you know, anything that may be coming up in the community or things that are on your mind. So, thank you again, Stephen.

Uh, good evening everybody. Stephen McMerry, uh, Dream Development. Thanks for having us here tonight. Um, you know, as Dan mentioned, we're going to jump into a presentation here real quick and kind of walk through the the goal is to get to the Q&A. Uh, just a little bit about Dream Development. We are a missiondriven for-profit organization that works just solely in affordable housing capacity building with agencies like Community Action, nonprofits um and other agencies around Oregon. Uh we uh primarily uh are working in rural communities. We are based ourselves in just outside of Walport in the tiny community of Tidewater, Oregon, just up river. Um, so, uh, we are excited we have the opportunity to help on projects like Bel Creek Terrace, which is a fantastic project. Myself, um, I'm the former housing director of Northwest Housing Alternatives, which is a statewide local housing agency, and also the former housing director for the Clackmus County Housing Authority. And so, uh, occupied rehabs with folks, um, that have been living longterm in properties that need significant rehabilitation. I've been doing for most of my career. So, with that, we'll kind of switch over to the presentation. We've got that. Um, yeah, great. I think you all have this in your hopefully you all have this in your packets real quick. Um, that's able to see that. Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, it's helpful. We both share out there. So, um, just to recap, as Dan said, El Creek Terrace, it's a 36 here in town, 36 unit, um, property located on El Creek Road. Uh, the comprised of 23 units of 50% or less of area median income. So, the majority of these households are serving individuals right now who are earning 50% or less of the area median income. uh tenants who live at El Creek are from a variety of backgrounds, but we have families, seniors, those that work in the

community. And project was originally built in 1994 and is in need of some significant upgrades uh to code, life safety, um maintenance. We we have accessibility issues. There's just a little bit of everything that's going on there. We provided um some pictures. We can go to the next slide. provided some pictures just of of again some what the where the location of the property is and some brief looks at it. Next slide, please. Here's some images. We've got uh I think you know if you look through the pictures, you can just tell that this is this is a property that has been well used since it was built in 1994. It is well past its uh you know sort of physical maintenance level and needs some significant investment right now uh at all levels both exterior and interior and again I want to focus on some of those accessibility and also seismic and structural concerns that we have particularly around as our codes have changed we you know there's some seismic upgrades that'll need to be done etc and so we have a little bit here why is El Creek terrace important from Canon Beach. Um, chances are that t the affordable housing around the state is is a necessary uh part of our state's uh infrastructure and our community needs and there's very little of it in most communities. It's particularly uh tough when we have smaller coastal communities with a lot of tourism. So losing an asset like El Creek Terrace would be a tremendous hit to those that are currently living there or might live there in the future. Housing prices are extremely high. Um and so this is a necessary uh part of the housing continuum and we want to try

and rehab it and maintain it and keep it affordable for the next 60 years. The tenants live there are our people. a plate work in Canon Beach and uh yeah, we're just excited. So, some of the interior upgrades we've been looking at is new sliding glass doors, new interior doors, pretty much a full comprehensive rehab in all of the units. We had a capital needs assessment that was completed uh which is an engineering firm came in took a look at the property identified immediate capital needs that would be required in the next year and then looked at those capital needs over time out for a 10 to 15 year period. The median investment in capital needs for the property um is close to $3 million in the next year, which is why we decided to pursue a larger, more robust funding source from Oregon Housing and Community Services. Uh just kind of jump into the whole thing that comprises this scope of rehabilitation. We're pursuing two different funding sources right now with Oregon Housing and Community Services. One is called through their impact assessment or ORCA which is the Oregon centralized application process. We're pursuing uh gap financing funds or funds that are from the state that are usually statebacked from the sale of bonds and etc. Uh we have that application that is about to be submitted. But more importantly than that, we've also applied for 9% low-income housing tax credits. Those are the most robust vehicle for developing affordable housing or maintaining and rehabbing affordable housing that we have. We're currently in for those um resources right now, those 9% credits right now and hope to hear back from the state here within the next month or so.

So, um, some big scopes of work, like I said, not only to the buildings, but we'll also have to do some temporary relocation. All of the families that and the individuals that are living there would be temporarily relocated while their units are rehabed and then invited back to the property. Those that would income qualify and would be able to come back to the property would be invited back. So what we do is we So So you're going to relocate someone and then if their income has changed,

they no longer have a place to live. They aren't invited back. Um, under the the rules of the tax credit program, if a household has exceeded 60% of the area's median income, then we have to permanently relocate them, which means we have to provide benefits under the Uniform Relocation Act from HUD to have them permanently relocated to new housing with covering their moving costs, covering their relocation costs, all that kind of stuff. So, um, that that's something we're required to do. So, they're not they're they're not removed from their housing with no hope of finding additional housing. We have a relocation firm that's been brought on called Epic Land Solutions. They do these types of relocations um throughout throughout the state. I've worked with them many times before over the years and uh they interview each tenant. they find out the tenants needs and and

do have you spoken with the um I'm just gonna because I think this is I have some sorry questions. So have you do the tenants know this is going to take place now. Do they know yet? So they don't know and do you get blowback from your tenants when that happens? I mean, even if they qualify, oh, we're going to move have to move you out for a month or whatever amount of time that is

as far as the the tenants being noticed. Um, you already talk, but sure, go ahead. So, we haven't quite got the point where we're ready because we don't know we're going to be able to do it yet or not, but like you said, what 30 to 60 days when we know whether we get the tax credit or not. At that point, we're gonna start outreach with the community there um to kind of warn them about what's coming. You're saying it in a public forum now.

So, I mean, I think that this is this is a conversation that's I have employees that live up there. Um, it's concerning to it's concerning to me that it's we're bringing it up now and they have no idea that I mean, which is good, but they have no idea this is this is going to happen then happen um in their community. I think a lot of people are happy that that renovations will be done because the property has been neglected for some years. Um what is the um disruption period for the how long is the temporary location typically? typically I mean again it's going to be very scope dependent but I would say on average and and I have done many many occupied rehabs through the years and I would say on average with the a property like this relocation is almost always dependent on the available and and that term is almost always dependent on the availability of additional units in the surrounding area and how we get folks to those units. So construction, our construction timeline might be that folks are out of their units for a month or a month and a half or two months depending on the level of what we have to do to their particular unit. The harder part is coordination of making sure that we have an available off-site place for them. So part of our part of our plan here is to for instance I think you all are aware we we there are two vacant units on the site right now. What we'd like to do is if we're successful in being awarded the first thing we need to do is have those units rehab and use them as on-site hotel units and then our general contractor who has also done this many times

before. Her team is made up of myself, Carlton Hard Architecture, LMC Construction. All of us have been doing affordable housing, uh, development and redevelopment, rehabilitation in Oregon for decades. We've all worked on many, many projects together. We rehab those two units to make them on-site hotel units, we call them, so that families, the first batch of families could move in on site and stay there while we're rehabbing a block of units. Now, some folks in that first or second phase in that scenario would have to move off site temporarily. We'll try and limit that as much as we can, but while they're offsite, we're able to then rehab and do the same level of work to another three or four units. So, that future cycles during the rehab, we're the goal is to have then everybody be able to stay on site while they're being temporarily relocated. So they move out of their unit into a rehab unit on site. Their unit gets rehabbed and when that unit is done, they move right back to their own unit.

But that means you've displaced people that are offsite because you only have two vacant units. Um we we would be temporarily displacing. How far how far do you displace people? What what is the what's the proximity there? I mean, if the only place you have to to displace someone is in Beaverton, is is that what you do? So, you're going to take our workforce away? No. I mean, I know that's not your goal, but that's

we typically when we start this process, we typically start to have conversations with the hotel owners from motel owners. Um, we've had we've already had early conversations with the housing authority. We've had other conversations with other affordable housing uh developers and owners in the broader region here. We recognize that affordable housing opportunities from Atoria down to my area down in the Walport area are limited, but this is a community of folks that are also in the same position when they have to rehab their own units. So oftentimes we'll find if there is a local hotel or motel that will do uh allow us to rent in blocks of units. So we'd like to keep everybody in Canon Beach. If that's not feasible, then we'd set up transportation to keep them as close approximately as we can to where all of their services and amenities are. That is something that we work very very hard on. And what we would do is if we can find a a hotel owner or a motel owner that is willing to lease us a block of units, then that's what we'd do. We'd enter for that first one or two phases that you were mentioning that you had concerns about people being displaced. We'd have them move to that block of units here in the community. If that's at all possible, then they're only being dis they are having to leave their unit. Everyone is going to have to leave their unit for a finite period of time. There will be some individuals that will either choose not to come back or will not qualify to come back because the same funding that was financed that got them into that housing to begin with. They have done what was the goal of the housing to begin with. They've been able to earn enough in their incomes to surpass that program. So those are the people that would be permanently relocated. And of those people that are permanently relocated, that also gives us additional units on site that we can

rehab and use as on-site hotel units. And isn't that why you verify employment every year up there is to make sure that you can get your funding or your your funding for those units. So I would like to think that most everybody hear your question. What are you asking? Well, because they verify employment every year. Once a year they verify employment. I'm assuming that's for the funding that they get to subsidize the housing. Um, and to make sure that they're that they can live in that housing that they qualify.

Yeah. the the under the current financing structure of Elk Rick Terrace, which would be uh the the financing that we're proposing to bring in would be the same we call the same flavor of financing and we would just be extending the affordability of the project for another 60 years. So, it was originally financed with low-inccome housing tax credits and other resources from the state. we'd be doing the same thing under the current restrictions and under the current programs that are over Elk Creek Terrace. Folks that are over income are allowed to stay in those units even if they're well over income. We can't displace them. The only and and we're not intending to displace anybody. We I think it's the intention of CAT and everybody. If everybody could come back, you want everybody to come back. But we but if those folks cannot come back because they have well surpassed the income threshold when the new financing comes in, then we're going to the project is going to pay to have them permanently relocated. Under the current program, you can't just evict somebody because they are over income. Um that's not a qualifying evtor. Which is why even though their income even though CAT and OCS are income verifying every individual in there on a yearly basis, even if they're over income, they can't just tell them to get out. And and so we have to have another unit for somebody to go to. And that's the point here. Now, if we can get the financing for the the this extensive rehab of El Creek Terrace, we'll have enough money to help those people move into a permanent situation as well as free up those 36 units to make sure that they're per, you know, flawlessly rehabbed for the next decades and decades to serve this community. And does the would the

financing or would this money um the deed restriction expires at 45? Is that right, Jen? 45 2045. Is that when the deed restriction expires up there? I'm not familiar with that. That sounds very familiar. I I think that I I think you looked it up. I'm surprised you don't remember. Um she can look it up. You're correct. You're correct. So, so does that deed restriction need to be extended or would that financing only be for the next 19 years?

No, that it kind of starts the clock all over again. So, that new financing would come in and that new financing is going to say if in a perfect world if we're if we're able to, we'd like to use we would suggest to Oregon Housing and Community Services that they allow the project to use what are called lift funds and those come from the sale of 11Q bonds. This is a little wonky and I apologize for the shock dock, but that is the most flexible source of financing that we have in the state to do affordable housing. Literally allows us to work with any population. Those those funds come into CAT, come into the project as a loan at zero interest with no expectation of repayment as long as at the end of the first 30 years that the term is of that loan. They agree to at the end of that to reup and keep affordability going. We'll also be bringing in tax credits. The tax credit program says, "Well, we'll see your 30-year affordability period, and we'll add 30 years to it." So, we'll be in it. We'll actually be committing to a 60-year affordability period in total. So, that those deed restrictions, they don't lift, per se, because the deed restrictions never really go away. They'll just be layered with additional deed restrictions. That's in essence what's going to happen. a title report that will be very long.

Thank you. Welcome. Sorry, I kind of

No, I appreciate it. You're passionate about We appreciate it. I just think what what we hope to stress again is we are we are here to save to preserve housing that is affordable long term in this community that's going to serve the people that are already in this community. And that's what we're hopeful to do. That's why we go out and my wife and I that's why we do the business that we do. That's why I've been doing affordable housing finance for the last 20 years. This is um it's extremely important to me and it's a very personal thing and uh I believe it is very very important for everybody to have a shot to have a roof over their head and if we can bring in those the new financing and those new deed restrictions you talked about we'll make sure that they can always remain an asset and always be a home. So if we needed to do something else in the future, we're the guy we would talk to.

Well, I would hope so. I I would hope so. I would certainly love to get the call. Thank you so much. That's good to know. Thank you. So, we do really like Steven's mission driven attitude towards it. He really is sure to do the best we possibly can with the restrictions and we're bound with the funding. Um, nobody wants to displace anybody. Yeah. And I do I do understand that. It was just like that instant Yikes. Totally good. Oh, I have a question. So, what the time frame again is going is going to be late after summer. Is this

I'm going to give you what my best understanding of the time frame right now and and realize that um our colleagues in in Salem and Oregon housing and community services are also a lot of stuff's happened in the last year. So, so um this is this is where I believe we're going to be. I believe within the next 30 to 45 days, we'll find out whether or not we were successful in the tax credit, 9% tax credit application, which is the critical resource here. If we weren't to get it, we still have paths forward for the rehab of the of the project. It's just going to have to probably extend out a little bit longer, maybe into the fall. But let's say we get it in 45 days, right? That puts us we're at midappril, so beginning of June. at the be at at the same time they would be um I hope I get that table 30 45 yeah right at the beginning of June

at the beginning of tourist season we will be applying for but we wouldn't be relocating people that way we and I apologize failure we would then be uh uh we would be submitting our impact assessment the other application that we're shooting for and they would move us towards housing stability council which would probably happens somewhere in the late summer. I would at right now I'd say because they're 9% credits because 9% credits come from federal government and are released by the state. They have a clock. So, uh they have to have buildings placed in service. I believe they'll want to move quickly. So let's say by the time we get to September

8th

8 September or October we will be um we will be preparing for that construction start and we will really be focused on relocation at that point. We'll probably embark on depending again on the permanent relocations that we ultimately have. That's going to be the most time consuming probably the most costly part right up front. We'll probably spend the first 45 to 60 days just getting people prepared for that move and then our contractors will come in sometime again, let's call it early fall, let's call it October and then we'd start. The contractor's overall construction timeline is going to be really dependent on how many units they can get at a time to be able to rehab. So, if we do, if we are able to have more folks elect to move off site, some folks do not want to stay on site even because they don't like the noise. So, if we give them an option, if we can work with a hotel owner or someone like that to uh rent a block of rooms, some folks volunteer to move off site, we can then go a lot faster. I believe construction will take less than a year. Um, even with the scope that we have, that's what we're shooting. We did the one in Scapus. We actually um shipped some families um right back east to stay with family during the time because they didn't want to be outside.

Well, that was cheaper in many ways and they were perfectly happy. They got to visit family they hadn't seen in years.

I had to ask a question about the cost of project. It looks like it's um well 16 million is what it says here. estimated cost 15,900,000. Right. So, so that's what it comes that comes out to well over $400,000 a year. And I'm just curious I and I don't know, you know, what building costs are now, but it seems like almost cheaper and better to rip down, you know, parts of it and start again rather than rehab. Is that not is it that much more expensive or is it less expensive to build you know start again?

Well, that's a fantastic question and and it's and it's nuance. So, what I want to be able to do is provide you an answer that's satisfactory while I'm while I'm saying that there's some gray area to this. I believe from what I've read in the capital needs assessment and what's been presented to the general contractor and again the general contractor has been operating here in Oregon doing affordable housing development redevelopment rehab for decades and our and our architects we've all looked at this this is a comprehensive rehab. This is a rehab where we're literally taking the buildings down to the studs because of the way that it was done. So in essence we are rebuilding these buildings. Um, one of the questions always comes up and we will have to go through this analysis depending on depending on the source of funds that's used is if you found an alternative offsite location and had to build that from scratch, what would that cost? What would that look like at that point in time? What we're finding in the marketplace right now where this type of housing under these financing terms with these types of restrictions and all of that kind of stuff is they're breaking about even in cost. The ch the biggest challenge that we have in a in an area like this and I'm sure you this is nothing new to any of you is available land. available land that is also served by existing utilities that is high enough and out of tsunami zones that also is not because of the investors and the lenders involved in this. They're going to look at everything from a risk perspective just like anybody would like any bank would. So they're thinking about seismic activity. They're thinking about all that. We start to put that on any brand new development and costs do start to go up pretty heavily. Now, that number that you're looking at that your total development costs, that's hard

construction costs and soft costs combined. Um, the the hard construction costs right now are coming in at about 250, a little over 250,000 a unit, but that's tearing the units all the way down to outside of putting new foundations in, these are for pretty much new buildings. Oh, and isn't it easier to do get finance or for a remodel to get your permits and everything if you have still have studs in the ground, you still have your foundation than a brand new build? I mean, I think you just explained.

Yeah, I well I had brief conversations. My wife had more conversations I have with the local permitting office, but that's a part of it. So, I would say there there's a level that we get to that we start to deconstruct something to rebuild it and we start to trigger all of those codes that I was talking about. So, it's a building that was built in 1994, but that was in 1994's codes. So, we we have to think about all of those seismic upgrades, all of those energy efficiency upgrades, all of those storm water and sewer upgrades and accessibility. It's a beautiful location. I hope many of you have seen it, if not all of you. Uh, it's a it's fantastic for the residents there, but it's not the most accessible. So, we've also got to think about accessibility pathways and, you know, those things start to add up.

How much funding are you asking for in total?

I put it on my phone so I wouldn't forget. So, uh, in total, so at our total development cost, if our total development cost is $15,900,000, you know, that we're we're tracking we're looking at right now, that's what we're in essence all of the sources that including the $300,000 that's been graciously given by the city of Can Beach. That's included in our capital stack. So, right now we are asking for just under $3 million from Oregon Housing and Community Services for GAP Resources, $300,000 from Canon Beach. There's a program called the Oregon uh Multifamily Energy Program or ORAP that pays for energy efficiency upgrades, uh both water, electric, insulation, things like that. We're anticipating we can get $100,000 out of them after we do the energy efficiency upgrades. CAT will be recontributing some of their own developer fee back into the project of a little over $300,000 right now. And then the the total amount of tax credit equity we're able to generate, again very wonky and I apologize, um, but the tax credit equity that we're able to generate off the the qualified cost of the rehab is giving us about $12 million in equity. And that's equity pricing at at 75 cents on the dollar right now. I wish we were five years ago or one year getting 98 cents on the dollar. We're not in that world right now. So if pricing improves, then we can rely on that tax credit a heck of a lot more than we have to rely on all the other stuff. So it starts to pay for the site.

And back to the big research, just a quick question. Um, oh, I'm sorry. I'm going to get a little megaphone. Um, back to the deed restriction just real quick. Is it possible to get a deed restriction that's in perpetuity or are they always just kind of set?

Well, that's interesting. Um, it is uh it is possible to get that. I haven't I haven't had that occur in a project that had an equity investor and in this case we would have an equity investor. So unfortunately at the end of the day that equity investor is going to rule all um they will be a partner long term for uh they have a a 10-year affordability period. So the way the tax credit works is they put in equity and they get a tax break for their big group of people that last for 10 years and they stay in the project for a total of 15. And so they kind of control how the underlying financing has to work because everybody in affordable housing financing everybody is working towards the whatif factor. What if the project somehow just failed? Which I a little bit of tidbits probably increased a little bit since COVID, but the standing statistic is affordable housing nationwide rate of foreclosure was less than 3%. And that's because there's so many deep restrictions on them. So, could it be done? Possibly. I think that's something we'd have to explain.

Yeah. You mentioned the 15 years. That's kind of what got us to the situation in the first place because the original investor with Love Creek. Um there wasn't an exit clause. It was an early early project. Didn't have an exit clause. So they stayed in 10 years longer than they should have, but they didn't want to put any money in the project. Didn't have the money without them. Need them. Well, first of all, they wouldn't agree to spend anything. They were going to be on for part of it, too. So consequently, we're 15 years late on the rehab. why the property is in such a bad shape. And so these new equity um loans are haven't have that exit clause so we don't end up in that situation in 25 years from now.

100%. That that that is learned the lesson.

Well, and it's it's a it is it is very when I every time I've heard that and I look project documents that is such an unfortunate situation that happened. It's with a equity investment firm that I don't do a lot of business with. I haven't done a lot of business with them like in my career. But you're exactly right. So the one of the first things that will happen is CAT's legal team. They'll have their own independent legal team separate from any legal team that I would have or anybody else would have. And that legal team, we will work together to make sure that the partnership agreement has that exit language is sort of front and center that says at year 15, here's what you know on or before year 15, CAT is able to do this. What we like to do is have something set up where it basically says the cost of exit taxes, which would be taxes to the investor if there were any exit taxes, and a dollar. That's what you have to pay for. So typically those exit taxes um because this is a 9% project we'd have we just have to model that but they don't tend to be that much if there's anything at all and then the investor usually just walks away because you get a first right of the check. Are there any other questions? Do you guys have anything else?

One of these days hopefully in 45 days, right? And you're going to leave a business card. I will be happy to share. I don't do business cards, but I will be happy to share my

What was that question? will move that money into the next budget. Yeah. Okay. Thank you all so much. Thank you.

Okay. Not as good as Okay, that's our agenda. We have Page Academy subd.

Thank you, ma'am. Um this item is actually has two elements. The first is uh that we have on nonpropy we have the school and we have the total bond art. We have two leases. Those leases are very different. In one case we pay all the expenses. In another case we don't pay any expenses to the less less e um payment. Beyond that, there's a recent project that the school did back in um 25 and that is there was a about a $7,500 budget having to do with the uh fire extinguish system and um they are requesting that they be treated the same as what the uh toana arts would be and that we would re repay them or reimburse them for that. And tonight to talk about this, we have Philip Vincent, who's the Canon Beach Academy board president. Who would you like to come on? Thank you. Did I get that right? You did. Okay. I think I I've been spoken by saying there's any questions.

Well, I actually when does this when does the Zoom lease expire? I'm sorry. That was when we started. So they just currently expired from the June first. Yes. Yeah. So this would be wrong to do that. I agree. I don't see why it's getting treated differently than the other. I didn't change from

a city building. I don't know why I'm going back to the minutes like I quote structural life safety like if it's a city own we should be taking care of structural life safety elements of it. and it started last uh July. It was a work session of the city council and this kind of came up and the city council conversation was I think there was agreement then to to bring leases together to be more more uh inconsistent but be cent. So sounds like you know that's what I'm hearing tonight and the sprinkers was something that happened during that time. Um it was we said about $7,500 and um if that was something that city council felt they they could help us with that would be most appreciated just like the roof branch they help with. So much appreciated for that.

And our children are in that building. Correct. Right. Oh yeah. There was a function at the school this last weekend I went to. Boy, I I want to go to that school. I wish I could go. It's such a such a sweet school. Really is amazing. Amazing. Amazing parents and students and of course the staff is is great as well. Thanks. Thank you. So, do we need to be signed with a new expiration date or do we bring let's bring you a proposed lease?

Make sure you're okay with it and then we can talk about the dates. Well, and the lease should basically be able to stay in this whole lawn essentially. Yeah. Well, except for the road the garden club, but and also I mean I'd also like to see us reverse them for the money that they spent on these three that I agree. So I don't know how that has to be at a different meeting that but can we put it on agenda? very soon.

Yeah. What's the what's going to be in the process for that if we uh add this uh $7500? Um I mean that'll be part of new budget or would we like to are we I'm sorry reimburse reimburse them. If we reimburse them we could probably stay into the current year if we wish to we could do that without having to do it inside the budget. So it's just our investment. Yes. as having a formal meeting and approving that. Motion, right?

We have the appropriation. I

don't sprinkle.

Thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank you. Okay. Okay, next on the agenda we have the tourism and arts commission public art policy. Um the artists the came to us with the policy and gave some revisions so they have discussed them. I don't think there's anybody from No. Well, I think you did a pretty good job of addressing all the issues that we had to put on tax.

Yeah. It's on review. Okay. I'm on. So, you want to come up and No, not really. Answer the questions. Come on. I'm really Because I was really the one that did this. Oh, really? I don't I don't think there's going to be anybody.

No, I have no I saw the offering on there for Courtney and other works to I think they did such a good job. This was well written together now it's okay. So we'll hold on.

Thank you. Next. Oh, to have a question for Michelle. Oh, no. Yes, sir. Okay. So, next we have a special med overview.

All right. Mayor Council, thanks. Uh I'm taking over this one I guess in the back. And so I we just updated this to clarify some uh things. I think really it's about uh structure. And if you go to the the page that has the table on permit required under 40130 that kind of summarizes uh I think what had happened and kind of I wasn't here during the uh the past couple years but I think uh from my understanding um some of the minors and majors I think were needing clarification. So what we did is I just restructured them to put them in a pretty much the same order. goes all the minor major for as you'll see um anything over 50 triggers into a special event permit. But then you have uh some that are on private property whether it's commercial residential and then there's uh public uh property which always will trigger a major because and will need city uh review on. So um the major changes then if you go further through into the application page which is 50 you'll see there that uh we have a the uh applicants are only put in for four times a year 72 hours for that time period and then 30 days between each application. Um and then further on it comes signage which is 110 and I I restructured that to show that it's the minor signage which has been moved up from D to A there. So it reads minor ones major and B. And so then

you'll see the next change major change is under 130 which is the permit standards. And so, like I said, all permits have to go by A. Then B is for minors and um then further down you'll see the major at C. And so, uh it's really just a restructuring clarifying a couple of things that I think we're having problems with. I think of some of the things like the men's soccer and things like that. I think it was because they were being interpreted honestly under the wrong thing under minor versus major when really it was structured better. You would understand uh who was supposed to see the biggest difference is the minor reviews go straight to me. They should be pretty administratively quicker. whereas we major have to have a full review because they may have impacts to city services and to the streets or other things that may need to be closed down or have fire or police review. I don't see any Well, I guess I'm confused by this because I'm trying to figure out I mean, and I think this was what the issue that came up, you know, demonstrations day demonstrations. Those demonstrations I in my view and of course it's not very clear here. says event is a special event organic stretching but then there's expressive activity

and I I see a difference between an event and expressive activity so so when you what would be an expressive activity there would be people gathering spontaneous event public places carrying signs I don't call that a spontaneous demonstration

I a similar concern uh and it's partially dealt with under 4 01.040 but I have a first amendment question about that because uh that's where we make an exception for a short-term demonstration but only uh 49 people. Uh but then C says uh lawful picketing is an exception and it just seems like uh little bit of a contradiction and a little bit of a first amendment issue

and that I have to defer because that that whole exemption stuff that goes to uh to Jody. Sorry, Jody. those things that's um that's why they're written as these spontaneous type of language but the reorganization look good all the changes look good but that which didn't change is my concern and spontaneous demonstration is not an exception under this I I wish I had it perfect with me I can't I don't want to say the wrong thing It isn't our constitutional right to be able to gather especially Yeah.

Y so that the city can't stop that at all. Not there's no first amendment right period and so our constitutional right does that outweigh Jody does that outweigh

I don't want to into constitutional liabilities but uh the case law on this has sort of divided out what considered to be um nonpublic areas is versus public areas. This is about what's an actual public forum versus what is not act actually accessible to the public. So, based on my Johnny on the spot understanding of uh First Amendment restrictions, as long as there's reasonable um they're reasonably related, substantially related to um a legitimate government interest, the restrictions are generally okay. But obviously the burden is on the city to defend those. So normally any any time place manner restrictions related to assembly. Um what I've seen in my experience have been related to public health and safety. So that's generally if there's a purpose to the restriction that's what it generally falls under. And so I don't know about lawful picketing, but theoretically, I don't know where it came from or why, but theoretically it might be a limitation on picketing within government buildings for the health and safety of of staff and public patrons. So something to that effect. Shooting from the hip here. I'm not saying that was the intent, but that is theoretically access acceptable.

I think it would be the the the question. So if you have a let's say you have a political I don't remember what you want to call demonstration. Okay, political demonstration it's that is spontaneous to the well it's not completely spontaneous not like everyone woke up in the morning and said well I'm going to do this but you know it has planned um nationally for months um under this it looks like we need to have a permit

well what what is seen what's what's the ticketing as it defined in our city code. But I think that that would be my read as well. That would fall under that exception. Typically thought of it was against an employer against something.

So are you guys uh warning, you know, say type of uh not truly spontaneous? I remember that. I don't think that is. So, uh, you know, how is your definition? If they're wanted to congregate like that in a public space and they're expecting 50 or more, you know, is that what we're questioning here? Constitutionality of that or, you know, it seems to me that that should be I think so. I I don't think that we should have to get a permit for absolutely not.

And I can see if if organizers called the city and said, "Hey, we're just giving you a heads up that this is where we're going to be." And you know, we'll keep the walkways clear. We'll beep. We know our goal is to be peaceful. It's a peaceful demonstration and that I believe is our constitutional right to gather in that way. And the city can't stop us from doing that. um can't stop anyone from doing that. Yeah. And um I think that um that's now if the police were marching down the street that's that's different. They're just just walking on sidewalks and through parks carrying a sign. I guess

or in some ways compromising public safety that picking um don't even I guess that's the exception that it falls under is picking. I just it's just funny lawful painting would be you're following all other laws except for the gathering portion seems so you're not blocking traffic you're not creating publicity is such a funny word for for a demonstration yeah I certainly don't understand the definition of

picking versus the the demonstration uh so so say it was Uh what's wrong with B if I mean with uh if that were it should be say it should say spontaneous duration uh you know instead say short term uh what what's wrong with that definition? Well, it says 50 or fewer persons. Yeah. I mean a couple Yeah. And and in in other words, if you were to not uh uh I mean, if you were to scratch that 50 or few, then that would be better. Yeah.

You know, because that's really what we're talking about, spontaneous demonstrations. And then you don't have to build that equity. Even if it's lawful spontaneous demonstration, right? I mean, even though it's planned, it's still spontaneous because I don't know. You don't know how many people are going to show up. But I mean, you know, and you might wake up and say, I'm knocked off. I'm not I'm not even going anywhere near that. You know, I think it's certainly an improvement just to remove by 50 or person.

Yeah. Follow following that under the rest of that line. And uh it does not involve use of vehicles, animals, Walmart vehicles. Just if somebody's driving around with materials on their vehicle or there's support or opposition of whatever is being protested or demonstrated against that constitute using vehicles even if it's spontaneous, you don't have a sign of this is who knows who part of this demonstration that put this in violation. That demonstration in violation of Right. So there's 200 people down there at oil park and dude drives with his sunroof open with you know some sign out the window

is a direct that's not illegal to drive by. No but say scratch

I don't think the demonstration falls. Yeah, because see this says too, if you guys read to number two there, uh, on the next page, so they they would notify the police. And so this is exactly what a king's bed could be, right? They would just notify the police and the police, as long as you're not in traffic, you're not gatherings, not blocking anybody or cause any safety issues, then and they know where that's you're going to do it, then that's should be the grounds you need, I think. So taking 50 or more 50 or fewer I think getting rid of that

and and I'll add spontaneous as short term get rid of 550 or fewer and vehicles well don't take out short term just add spontaneous to it because there'd be people who would argue that the no king's march is not spontaneous it is was planned months in advance so spontaneous short term or is this spontaneous or shortterm Well, and you have animals on here and sometimes they're dogs. You want me to get rid of the animals? How about fireworks already? Yeah,

I think the critical absolutely important. I'm gonna worry. Yeah, I think the critical thing we're going to add to provided that is that it's not blocking traffic flow and not causing a public safety issues. I might add some language in there too that says that kind of thing does not block.

Honestly, I I can't wrap my head around the involve the use of vehicles, animals. There's always dogs there. you know, violence pyro techniques that would talk about like bringing horses in or you know, I mean that's a that's not having your dog on leash, but but people might cons if someone's going to consider it that way that we care for. I mean, that seems to be the important thing is blocking traffic or compromising public safety.

I mean, I think the general consensus in town with the people that live here and that that are involved in this are actually pretty peaceful and if the police showed up they'd do what they were told to do generally I mean we can't control our friends that come and visit and help our client so are you guys okay with those anything else

I have a question on 050 application um verbage it's on the next page the same page I guess um the in the second sentence the city for shop forward private property permit applications for events perform 50 people in commercial commercially zon property for I didn't really understand what that's trying to say it seemed like it flip-flops residential is commercial is placing it seems like should be residential based on earlier in the chart

uh it is Let's see. So, well, that's called a private property per city forward private property permit applications. Yeah. Application prevents more than any Oh, no. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. Should be res. So, wait a second. Wait. It seems so

I will clarify that as well. It should be for um I think that what I was trying to get at private property permit and the uh commercial. Are you saying it's a private property in a commercial zone? Is that

So I'll clarify that that as well. Okay. Anything else? No. Thank you. You can also make changes, right?

Before we get into action. Okay, I'm going to close the session and have a short

Okay. So once again I'm closing the work session and opening special meeting and first item on the agenda is the LGP grant.

Yes ma'am. At the April 7th meeting, Amber Fowler and Bob Lundy presented a PowerPoint presentation for the LGP grant option be used towards purchase of the Holland Family Trust property known as HSA Hill. That meeting council requested additional information to be brought back to the April meeting for consideration. The additional consideration information was provided by Amber Fowler and is a local grant local government grant program 2026 grant cycle webinar. And that's all the information that we have. And I believe Amber's on the phone. She's on.

Yeah. and is working with her or I don't see my good evening Amber.

Did you guys have any Did you guys have any questions about the grant after I sent the additional webinar uh slides and I I guess that's why I'm online tonight just to make sure that in case there were questions that I could answer them or try to answer them. I I had one question or one question about the grade itself. Uh so the with the covenant or the requiring the de restriction that's that's on it um on the on the property is that that the grant that issue um is it specifically said is open um that this is if it's for land acquisitions that the lane is to be open and accessible to the public at large and with the public at large have requirements for some level ADA compliance or anything like that for the existing trailers and if we can't do maintenance to upgrade the trailers on this is that this these dollars at risk either not approval or having to get reimbursed.

Yeah, the grant the grant doesn't disallow trails or maintenance or it does not it doesn't disallow that. I I may not have understood what your question was, Eric. Oh, yeah. No, it's the the the deed rest. So the the grant doesn't the the grant seems to encourage that that sort of activity. But the um the deed restriction that is going with this that we're not to do anything on that property. There are existing trails and it says that to leave them in their existing condition. Their existing condition is not an accessible condition. So rightifier

it it still qualifies for it. Um, basically the idea is that that land doesn't get developed, right? That's the that's the goal of the deed restriction that's currently on it is that you're not suddenly going to put a playground up there or you're not going to suddenly develop, you know, restrooms or other hard structures and things that the land is going to be leftly uh largely left raw and conserved. And so, um, and I think you're referring to because I think that the deed restriction that's with the Holland property was made to marry the John property deed restrictions as well or closely marry them so that they could again, like we talked about in the last meeting, adjoin the properties, you know, how that it would end up being a 14 roughly 14 acre parcel total. And so uh the idea was that yes there would be there would be light trails and that doesn't prevent the deed restriction does not prevent that.

So trails can be developed. I mean right now the it is accessible. There are kind of trails and then you get up there and it's just kind of a uh you can wander around a little bit and uh uh so is any kind of trail development allowed? I think I think it would depend upon I mean I'm not the this deed I can look up the deed con I mean I've worked on it a bunch with the Holland family and obviously I'm familiar with the John deed restrictions as well but I would say that the idea is that the things aren't paved they're not they're not it's not like a formal um I would say that the trails need to stay as close to natural as possible is the goal for this forest preservation project and as I think I stated in the last meeting, Oregon State Parks had said that once these two properties were adjoined that they would have volunteer staff that would help clean the trails and make them more accessible and all of that and that that would be part of the project.

But I guess what I thought Eric was asking, he just was trying to make sure that that that would foreclose us getting the grant. No, it would not. It would not. Right. And then the other question, I don't know, it's it's probably a question for for us or um or city staff, but uh it says that we're required to help post assigned at the property saying this is funded by LGBT grant. Where would that go? What's what's the at the top?

I I I just was trying to picture where that would go. Visible spot that's that they require.

How big does the sign have to be? They have they have a specific signage supposed to order or you can make your own match your existing signage on site stuff. sound designion or just one of it's not really just one of the accesses to the land would be good enough. I mean they they want that credit. Yeah.

Probably the most used access point. Yeah. Not not putting him smack in the middle of the robing forest. Clearing out a new space, right? Pouring some, right? Yeah, those are those questions.

I only had question about uh the timing of this. Um, and I don't know what page are we on here. can't tell what page of the slide, but uh the LGP advisory committee uh committee will meet via Zoom in late September or early October to hear project presentations for large grant requests greater than $100,000. So, sounds like we're going to be in this category and they're not even going to start talking about it until September or October. the grant. So, so it's usually July, August is usually when they convene and they talk about they make decisions about what they're going to fund and then they announce it. Sometime around September they announce that you've gotten it or you've been approved and then around October, November is when funds are techni are typically released.

What do I not understand about that slide? Then uh committee will meet via Zoom in late September or early October to hear project presentations for large grant requests greater than $100,000.

Yeah. I'm just Gary, I'm just telling you about the last grant that I worked on with Atoria. The timing it was the same grant type as this. And the way that it worked was we submitted the grant same timing around June is when you had to submit and then they get back to you after their review. And the timing is is kind of broken up into those I would say kind of three sections which is you apply then they obviously have to review everyone and then they let you know sort of late fall that you've gotten it. I I think it's there's some uh acronym that I don't have in front of me right now. um some sort of confirmation acronym that they use around the acknowledge that you've gotten the grant and then at that point you wait a couple more months and then you get the funding. So

any we'll be passing that closing date that we agreed to but with the promise of funding it sounds like they would probably extend the closing date. That's that's exactly right. Right. So you have on so with you're correct on the timing because it's a large grant. So as large grants it's not just the application you actually have to do the presentation. So you're right kind of on the timing but we can mutually extend the closing date

on this. So, we would come back to the um to the council and we would ask to extend that closing date if if we were looking at that we were going to actually we're in the running for the grant. That would be my recommendation because we can essentially automatically extend 90 days beyond the June 30th date which gives you the September 30th. By that time you probably have a pretty good idea and then you can mutually extend beyond that if both sides or both groups agree on. So that's how you get to that time.

Great. Okay. Any other questions? Anybody like to make a motion? I move to authorize Mark Morgan and Mike Morgan and Fowler to submit an application on behalf of the city to the local government grant program to seek the funding to be used toward the purchase of the Holland family trust property known as Haystack Hill provided that a memorandum of agreement between the city and Mike Morgan and Amber Fowler is approved by council before the grant application is submitted. Second.

Any further discussions? Okay. Council Hayes. Yes. Council President. Yes. Council. Yes. Councelor H. Yes. Mayor. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks. Okay, next we have the main inclusive park design and construction service selection review committee. Definitely. Um I passed out the you know review sheets just so you know this is the end product that they will give us the ones that are working through the the selection process. They will be looking at each um company. They're going to supply information. It's going to include photographs. It's going to include uh explanations of their philosophies that sort of thing. and then um people will evaluate based on these five criteria. So that's where we're headed. And you have five people that have um submitted, three submitted um prior to the deadline, two submitted prior or after the deadline. It's a total of five. And you could have uh up to six. Actually, you could probably have more, but it starts to get unwieldy. Um but up to six people on the um the committee and then um we may want to have some staff members.

Oh yeah, you have six. You could have in other people plus a couple staff members. That would be okay. True. Uh, how many staff members were on last the last lecture period? I think it was three or four. Yeah, I think three. Yeah. And then I think it was a total of five. Do you have an issue with the number of staff? Oh, okay. I don't. No. Um I I just I think it's important

to remind the people that applied that this isn't about what's going to happen over there. It's about picking the contractor the the right or design. Yes. Right. Um so it's not it's not about we want to keep this, we want to do this. It's just about picking the right person for the job and fitting that criteria. So, did you feel like any of these applicants didn't understand that?

I think there was a lot I think there was a lot of community people that asked me about getting on the committee and things I want to see this done. I mean, before Yeah. But on top of people who yeah who put it in complications, is there any part of that that you see by by what they don't seem to understand what the job is? I go ahead, Gary.

I'll I'll say yeah, I think I wonder if Ginger uh understands that. I mean, she mentioned things about ideas about how uh best space might be used. preserve the area for wildlife. But I mean, I'm not I'm not thinking that anything includes her from doing this. I just wondered if she we didn't we didn't know who we were and so

well I was invited to say a few words and I and I thought I would be here to answer any questions that that anybody had about that. Um it is part of me that it's a design uh review. Okay. Thank you. Okay, this process is one that I've been through lots of times as a nursing instructor and you're you have uh criteria that you use that's it's processes very we're selecting a designer based on their qualifications and who might have the best experience related.

I haven't done it for a design for I I said that in in my application. I haven't had this specific experience before. Yeah, but the process I'm familiar with. Yeah, I think I don't think I don't think there's that many people in the city who actually had experience picking a park design, you know, just a but there are people in Oh, there were people who the other applicants there were several who had been involved in this process. I think it's a really nice mix of people. I do too. I know. Yeah, that's one of the things I was glad to see was it how many because I didn't know where you went. Was it one person that you were looking for or and it sounds like uh everybody could make a contribution?

I was just concerned that uh you might get in it's like oh what we have to look through all these packets and just decide on the qualifications for something. But as long as you understand that I'm uh and my only my only concern with all of the applicants is just making sure you realize what a grand commitment it is. Yes. Because of the because of the nature of the designs, because they're in depth designs, they're going to submit their work. It's going to be about this thick with with all of them. All of them. They are not submitting designs out of the park. Submit,

right? How how um how many fms are that are We generally get four or five. Mhm.

And then when you're looking at it, you're looking at the kind of work they've done before, their philosophy, the team that's sitting in front of you. Those are the kind of things you can see on that sheet that you'll be rating. But you won't they're not going to come in and say, "We would necessarily do this, this, and this." And you kind of see who the winner is. So that's this is the the task and this is the product that you you would produce with a number in the score and comments along the side if you wanted to talk about it's a like I said it's a process we use in um in my work as a professor all the time both in applying getting looking at applicants for the for who might get into nursing school and you have these criteria and you look at their whole application and you score and then you get the I mean it's very similar to that.

Well, I do like this group of applicants as a whole based on we've got longtime community members who know what this community is about. Um, you know, we have Beth Holland who, you know, is going to understand that we don't want uh, you know, a landscape designer that doesn't really understand native landscaping. Uh, and we've got Don Stassmate who's

so more than qualified to do this uh, not only for his uh, design and architectural work, but his work on Native American projects and his understanding of the complications that that comes with archaeological and cultural and so I don't I don't I don't have anything against either either one of those two applicants aside from their not following construction the deadline of the deadline that staff came in a day after and then came in three days after the deadline. I don't know are they on either one of them?

Yeah, I mean ability to follow instructions yeah that's kind of a big one for me and I think we need to be careful too that um maybe somebody doesn't feel like they get on this committee because they have an ulterior motive and they want to do something different then what we understand it's possible but I think when you have four or five other people it's going to change out the scores right balance

I do have a a a strong interest in in the park and I want to be I think that's a positive for me that I live very close that I'm there every day twice a day I'm out there two dogs walking in the

Yeah park and I get out there at least twice a day that's in one side of my property it's just at the end of spruce street so I can stand on my deck and look and there's I mean I can see who's at the picnic tables down there and um and on the other side of my property it's right at the corner of Antler and Beaver and I'm looking at the building. So, I'm impacted by anything that takes place in that in that area and I'd love to have a voice in what that outcome is.

Well, a lot of people will have a voice in what the outcome of the park design looks like. This is about selecting person who does the design but then it's going to be a major process of of design options get something in the door. Thank you for tuning in. Yeah, I appreciate it. And thank you. Always nice to get new people to submit their applications for things and I don't know what to do with the ones that came in after deadline. I mean, obviously we need people on this committee. Uh

well, I just it seemed very confusing to me. I this was a conf with the counseling. There was sort of a remember I was sort of railing that only one person had had applied I was so disappointed and the impression I got was that a lot of people didn't know unless they listened to that meeting with this office. So I'm willing to not worry about the big um couple days late on this. I know I like parties too, but you know this was not the most it was a little confusing and so I think that's fine. I'm not

and do we want to extend the deadline and get additional we don't need because if we have three staff members and five citizens that seems like as big as we should get. Yeah. I think that's too big. It's too big. I think it's too late. I think that we pick three of these and pass three staff members.

I think another option is if um you want me to be on the staff to be the six or these five can do it and I can help manage the process. I don't think you need necessarily um know the staff members. However you want to do it. I kind of pictured these by the two staff workers myself. Yeah, that would be something.

Yeah, two things. I think Barbara language could be questions for her also. And the RFP I believe says up to six. So I don't know if we have to stick with that or if that's something that can be adjusted. We said up to six. It says up to six. Yeah. So Margo is on if does anybody have questions for her? Thank you for meeting the deadline. She was first. Oh, she was first. Anybody have any questions for Marco or do we know what she'll do?

Her application was great. Yes. Yeah. Thank you for being here, Milo. And condolences to Nancy. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Okay. What do we want to do? So I I think because the RF at six, we shouldn't shouldn't be exceeding that. I I think we need to have more than just a single staff member as a part of it. So whether it's four and two or three and three, I would I would lean to three to three since we have three. their words at least.

I'm certainly not close to think Mr. Never because he's designed. He's the perfect person. I mean, I can't especially with this Native American background. I'm designing uh one of the museums and he's from Oregon and I just uh made American museum. I just can't imagine leaving him out because he was a day late just because he's so well the selection process could have been designed for not right he is selective

no yes I saw his application it's like an A+ candidate is just I I can't imagine especially for this department which has a strong heritage component. It's good to have somebody that's in the business. It's good to have somebody that's in the business with your group. Yeah. So, first let's decide how many people we're not go over six or

Okay. So, we're okay with we're all six people. Now, the question is um how many staff would you like? Anybody? Nobody. I think we agree. Well, I agree. I don't one person number one. Yeah, it does make that up. Yeah. I've always envisioned more community than staff, but I could

Yeah, because this is not again they're not design. Okay, threebody agree with that. Yeah, that's right. Okay. Uh, Don and Ch would be my three.

See, and I'm going I think we need to have I think we need to have some new people. Um, we need to include community members that haven't been included that are stepping up to the plate and um that haven't previously stepped up. You know, I mean, I agree with Don. Absolutely. I I'm thinking Ginger and Nancy. Well, I was I was meaning if we're just talking through Don, Ginger, and Margo.

That's exactly what I was going to say. Ginger and I guess I don't know Mara. The only the only the only reason I know her is from she I believe she was the one that presented the ASAP height petition for adjusting STR. Right? She helped she helped build the skate or

she probably would probably do, you know, at least. Yeah.

Oh, there's Marco. Can you hear me? We can. Let's see. Yeah, I'm actually driving, but I'm driving safely. I'm in California. Hi. Um, yeah, that's why I've been off camera. So, what questions can I answer for you? We just wanted to make sure we knew who you were. I mean, I know who you are, but I don't know how to make sure everybody knows. Okay. You're welcome.

Thank you. suggestion. One of the things that um I hear you saying is if you want to get more people involved and um that there's little not total agreement on who the the people should be. you have an opportunity to um select an entirely citizenbased group to go ahead and make that kind of a decision. It can be managed by staff, but it's possible to go through. Um, and I'm not sure what the three and three does because maybe you've got three staff members that are more experienced doing it, but I don't know if that would intimidate somebody with just trying to go ahead and make a decision on it. So, I'm just saying that there's staff can manage or you could go with the entire group or you could split as you were discussing. My biggest concern would be that a staff member might be more might see an come in and be familiar with them and know that they don't follow through or they don't you know they might recognize

the staff will still be there when after the presentation to talk about what happened staff member. Is that what you're saying? I I guess that I mean that's that's what so

I guess my feeling has been to have more community members than staff just in in some ways for public appearance and I don't think it's necessarily uh true but you know a lot of people in this community treat uh city staff as if they're they don't understand our city And uh and that's why I just had the general thought of uh more uh community members than staff. Five community members and one staff would that we could do do four and two, but as you said that's getting one person

or just the five community members. I mean Bruce just said that because the staff's going to give a presentation after the applications come in anyway. I would like to have one staff member on it. Yeah. And then somebody that's that's there, you know, managing the process. Well, that gives us the vitamin. Yep. The vitamin one. And I that's process. I mean, I would like everyone who's interested and has gone through this much to to be able to be a part of it.

Yeah. But we don't condone being late on your applications for future. Exactly. I think we can get back means so we need so I need to appoint all five applicants that are killer and Holland um along with one staff member use discretion for the park and park design construction service selection review committee beginning immediately. Any further discussion? Okay.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Mayor. Yes. Okay. Thank you very much everyone. Just a quick question. Is everybody okay if I act as the staff member? I thought you were going to manage the process. I've done both in the past. It's not, but if you want me to point somebody else, I'll do it. Okay. Yeah. All right. Thank you.

Okay. Next, we're ready to approve minutes from our March meetings. Anybody have anything? amendments or deletions. Uh I move to approve the minutes of March 3rd, March and March 10th as presented. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? All in favor?

Yes. Okay. Good. Okay. Next we have ordinances and we have ordinance 2603. This was discussed at the uh April 7th 2026 meeting. It was adopted on first reading as a 4 to one. We were not able to do a second vote at that meeting because it was not unanimous and so it's being brought forward again. This is consideration of ordinance 26-3 the ordinance amending canon beach municipal code chapters 10.08.010 definitions and 10.12.010 010 bicycles, skateboards, and emergency merging mobility devices.

Okay. Okay. I just want to say one thing real quick. I um went back after the meeting because I was personally voted against it. Not because I'm against because I'm against biking. biking. I think it's great. I just wanted to see some language in it that included um safety standards requiring that we bike batteries and chargers were tested by an accredited lab or a successor standard for the designates. Both California and New York have this language in place in their ordinance. Other jurisdictions as well. I just go through California New York and um they they also require a safety to be handed to um people who advice I I know that we had a state of said it wasn't necessary to differ and that's all I have to say. That's the only thing I wanted to say standard um requirements and hopefully I'll be wrong. Okay. Anybody else?

So, um I also have had some time to think about um our conversation um surrounding the ebikes in general. And I was thinking about when this first started, the main issue was making sure that we didn't have all those electric scooters like are laying around in the river in Portland. uh and I do understand your concern. I I understand your concern. Um as well. So I I wanted to say that too because I know that I was gave you a little opposition there. Um it isn't that I don't understand. I just am thinking about it differently. Uh, so I'm really wondering after listening to Ann if we're really spending a lot of time tying his hands by only giving him the opportunity of having 10 bites. Uh, if we're going to require all of these other things, I think that we should give him the opportunity to let us know. And maybe he did at the last meeting and I didn't hear him. What would be a better number for him?

He said that was all he could fit in the store. He has 12 bikes now. Bikes. He has 12 and because that's what he said that at the last meeting. So he has 12 now and he's got large, small, medium, you know, different different sizes. I mean, I don't know that he's renting. I don't know any more than he said he has 12. Um, and I know that he looked quite troubled when we were talking about that it was only 10. I didn't pick up that.

Yeah, I wish you would have made that objection here. Uh, there was something he did make the point that you have to get them in all different sizes. So really, he may only have two bites of the same size. Uh, you know, would you get I actually I I would and I actually I was I was actually going to reach out to him. Excuse me. And I didn't have it for that. He's he's not online.

Well, I kind of agree with you because I'd like to ask him now that I have familiarized myself a little more with some of the regulations. Some of them some of them are um accreditations for batteries and some of them are accreditation uh for the entire electorate system accreditation for the entire ederal system. I would like to hear from him if what he thinks about if he thinks it's necessary or because he didn't really say he seemed very

well I know when the electrical system goes out on one of those bikes and what happens it just stops working too that's why that's why New York put in the regulations because they weren't kept up you know or they weren't certified. So, you know, there's and and also I think there's a house bill 3626 is currently being updated to deal with various eigh requirements and of course we want to be in compiance for that but we could even be more restrictive if we choose to not less restrictive on the house. So, I don't know. I'd like to hear about under writer's laboratory global safety certification standards that a lot of these other jurisdictions have put in place. I Randy said that they need them for the insurance, but I'd have to I'd like to hear that from Ian because he's the person who's getting the insurance.

Well, and I think that I think that going to Ian in advance of the meeting and letting him know what we would like Yeah. to hear from him um is going to serve our time so much better and then we'll we'll just have a better idea.

Um but I think that I felt like and I could be wrong and maybe it was and I know that Randy Neil has spoken with him. Um and I and I saw the look on like Ian was like whoa wait. Um, and then I'm pretty sure that Randy probably said something I think in his email or maybe when he was talking today about um, how restrictive it is. And I feel like Ian said something about 30. Um, but it's not but it doesn't mean that you're renting that minimum. No, I just heard him say that. I could be wrong, but I I might not be.

Okay. So, I think that we just find out with him from him what would be more palatable. I agree with Randy that I don't I don't think we're going to see a bunch of ebikes come to town. Um, the main reason that we wanted this was to keep those little chaos bikes out of here. Initially, that was the main reason I believe we started this conversation. It was it was

that Ian asked about wanting to come in and I I brought it up now. My initial thing was I don't want scooters like that. That's kind of like so trying to start regulating and allow somebody local to be able to start renting them in a way that's reasonable. If I just

so if we're discussing changing what is procedurally we go if we have a first reading done on this ordinance done approved what happens to that first reading if we're talking about discussing an amendment to that like what does what does that look like change it second reading we can make amendments for the second Yes, I believe so. We can actually I'm sorry. Joy, can we make amendments to second reading?

That's a very good question. I believe you can for regular parliamentary procedure, but I don't know your specific procedure to say yay or nay, but I I would assume yes. most jurisdictions allowed but you'd have to read it into the record word for word.

So, so is is the discussion then we'll reach out to Ian about that. So let's yeah let's say in public record what we want and so I can come back with wheation I know he worked really hard for it and went to he took a lot of classes and should say would it make sense to have safety standards include because I do not know at all some might not just come in here and start anything but I don't think there's any way that we can determine you know we have 30 stores or we did or we got four a while and we had three I mean you know we don't know what what we're going to end up doing as far as businesses there's no there's no limit number of ebike stores that we can have um so I'm just saying I I would like to see um standards requiring ebike batteries and chargers to be tested by an accredited lab which underwriters laboratories usually what they use and and to the rangers to hand out safety sheets covering covering you know battery safety practices and local access rules what the rules are for beach and just either verbally for handing out a a flyer.

And I think he already hands out a flyer. So if he already hands out a flyer, they bring one with him. Yeah. So you could read it. Yeah. And and that other if anyone else they Yeah. So not just him because like I said beforeund times I I trust him totally. I I know him. I know him. he was already, you know, do a great job. I know that I'm not worried about him, but we're worried about other people. And then last,

we also I think we need to know the number of bikes that are palatable for him. Yeah. That's going to work for his business model and about how many he thinks of those he might rent a day. Okay. Anything else? Okay. So, I would like to meeting that.

Okay. Under UL 2271 and UL249. There are two that under those two numbers are the numbers that um other jurisdictions included in their jurisdiction. It's all kind but so okay. Anything else on that? Okay. that we're ready for good and delic um previous public works director George Von Carr and so the city did not have a truck for the new public works director he's currently driving a Ford family van which is like big

a camper van I think yeah and um we have the opportunity to pick up pay about 450 now. Um it probably come in around the time that the budget comes up, but we wanted to find out if it was all right to go ahead. We have the funding if we could go ahead and purchase that vehicle or not

60. Is it used? for him to use it for a special addition additional vehicle into the city of the vehicles. Yeah, it was our our account was unnaturally low because Karen was driving her own vehicle and you said how much?

I I don't remember exactly. I think it was in the 60s but it would be this fiscal year. Yeah, we will go ahead and buy it out of this fiscal year and we wouldn't put it in the budget for next year. If that makes you uncomfortable, we'll just go ahead and wait and buy it. But it'll be a long time for you. Everybody orders their vehicles in September. So right now there's a long wait list. Yeah. Oh,

even if we have the opportunity to buy something and we've got and we've got the money in the budget now and it can be done for this year instead of moving in the next budget, I think we should just do can we do can we approve that during the bill? Yeah. Consensus. Okay. Okay. Okay. Everybody okay? I'll go there too.

Okay. real quick. I just wanted to pass for you planning commission maybe by chance. Oh, really? Yeah.

Yeah. There was there was a lot of discussion. Yeah. And no and no resolution was Yeah. But that was actually that was my good one of my good order questions too is on the STRS. We I How many people have you had reach out to knew asking when Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we were going to come to a decision on that when it to be back on the actually everyone everyone who reached out to me. I don't you should try to get to the point in that meeting where they discuss it because there was over like exclusionary zones and

I I still really think exclusion zones and that's accomplished in the goal than a straight cap. I think we need to do I think we need Yeah, I personally think that we need to do a cap and we need to start with at least a restriction on the east side of 101 and look at density. I think we just need to start with the capital. Yeah, I do too. Just start then we can refine it. like that, you know, especially people in town who want to, you know, are not I mean, well, if we continue, if we continue to allow at least allow it on the east side of 101, we're going to lose more property and we're going to have more upset people over there,

right? Then we also have people in town like just recently a local citizen who lost his long-term rental and has to cease. So anyhow, uh I think a good easy first step would be what a cat. Yeah. Then I think we can talk about all the others. I think you know I can feel like it's an obvious thing. It's an easy thing. Maybe not easy for staff to implement. Uh that's greatly a challenge is going to be happen. Uh,

we just need to get it done. Yeah, I agree. But how did it I mean now it's still planning on started figure but the cap is stalled in planning but putting restrictions and starting working on density isn't but the planning commission definitely discussed that during their meeting have they listen to that meeting either can we snatch it back can we snatch it that get a cap and let them go to work on all the other possibilities because that's going to take a lot of conversation.

It's going to be how many times we've been talking about this for almost two years. So is it possible for us that no your process that's commission makes a recommendation council. So, so I'm assuming your next the longer that they sit on the longer we sit on the higher housing prices and the less and less

people are going to be pushed out of their homes urgision I can ask. Okay. Okay. Um, thanks for that. I do. Okay. Um, Michelle brought up time agenda topics and we brought this up before. We brought it up. We need to get it on the agenda and we need to have a serious conversation. We had a serious but I know we had a serious discussion of that tree.

We did. And where did we leave it? We're not going to have a time. I still think that we need we need I think we need to reopen the discussion. The the discussion we had then was well we'll just be more mindful or 4 hour meeting than a week ago or last month. It's evident that we are so would you guys prefer to have more meetings so that we don't have a

I think we should have more meetings with less going back and forth. We That's what just like Lisa said during our last meeting, we don't have to agree 100% on things. We don't need to argue something to death to the point where we all 100% agree on. That's true. We don't usually do that. And I think that I really think that that is a huge um uh to the legislative process to have time. They do it in Atoria and they do it in seaside. I don't. So, so it's not like and they do it in a lot of other places. Actually, most I have attended many Cas,

but but they have they have an idea of how long agenda items are going to take. Yeah. And it's and it's on the agenda and it doesn't mean that but and some things are going to go quicker, right? It also gives people the opportunity even if we are going to have a longer meeting. It gives people the opportunity to say okay well my agenda item isn't until approximately xyz time. How do you predict that? From what I recall in the past we did have that and it was never right

and people and people got upset because they weren't available at the time they said they were going to be on even more frustrated. I mean with the with the advent of Zoom a lot of those issues you can go do something else keep checking back and seeing how close you get into the agenda item if that's the way you want to do it or if you want to be here in person you look at it we say I'm halfway to the agenda so I find you know I don't agree I would like to look at limiting presentations and I think I think it depends we have streams and we have streamlined a bit.

We're not having somebody that don't want to give everybody that says don't review your slides verbatim. Just give the summary council's already read it and they'll be ready with Amber tonight. It was perfect. She had she gave us the presentation. We could read it and then she said, "You have any questions?" And I think that's that has happened. Right.

Where I would agree is we shouldn't have 18 items on an agenda and have a 4-hour meeting because our, you know, we're no good after 2 and 1/2 hours. We're really not. I just I don't think we're very efficient. Uh and so I think we need to figure out and and I also agree that things like the EL conversation, they have to happen. Yeah. And they have to be long, but not with 17 other items. Well, the EL conversation should have been a standalone meeting. I I feel like that could have been we

we could have had a better meeting. Are you willing to come to more meetings

because if we start I mean I agree with the we could have talked about that. So for topics like that, I mean am I always available? No. But am I make myself available on occasion? Sure. As a general rule, lately most of our meetings have been anywhere from 90 to what 120 minutes is 180. Um, this is fine. But when we start getting into that 9 10 11, you know, 10:00 or later hour, I have to get up at 4:00 in the morning. I have a job, another job. So, I'm f I'm fine with that as long as there's a good balance and it's not just, oh, well, we're having a meeting every day this week because we've got all which I don't see happening.

Well, how how many meetings have we had recently that have gone to 10:00? It has been a little while since that has happened. Way too many agenda items on the meeting. So when we um when you see an item that you think should I mean Jen gives us a great list every month of you know what's where everything is you know in terms of the agenda schedules. If you see something that you think is going to should be a standalone meeting, then we need to schedule a standalone meeting. So you see about it at least talk about it in advance. If you know in advance,

see I thought we were going to do the elk. We were originally going to do something different and then that didn't work out. We But we haven't had that many long meetings anymore. We used to have a lot more uh two years ago we went to and planning commission 11:00 was not that even when we first we haven't much and so I I don't see it as such a big problem. I mean if somebody is upset about they're bored watching it later. Well then either they can watch it in pieces you know.

Well I'm I'm talking about I'm talking about our ability to make decisions. I'm not talking about other people being here or viewing the meeting. I I'm not I'm not talking about that. I'm I'm talking about our ability to make good sound decisions. Um and there is a such thing as you know meeting fatigue and so No, that's true. That's true. So, I think that your idea of having big topics separated out um rather than having several big topics in one meeting makes sense. Bruce, did you want to say something?

Yeah. Um, I don't know if anybody is uh used to or has objections to doing a consent agenda, but as I'm looking at the agenda tonight, the um Ben Beach police update and sprinkler maintenance that could have been written up and then if you unless you had an objection to the way that staff was recommending it, which would be to take it to the next meeting um or to just stop say I have one question, then it would be handled that way. And um same thing with the tourism and arts policy. This is it. This is what you talked about last last month. Go to the next month if unless you want to pull out percentage. We could probably get four four items under those two items took five minutes together.

But even the well the LJGP grant this is the information we provide. I'm just saying that it's a way to go ahead and get some sometimes a heavy item, but some of them aren't that heavy, but you get down from 18. So, it's just another option that you you have if you want to if we have something like the L, which we know is going to take a long time. No, no, I think we would go to a reg a separate meeting for for the So, your consent agenda items are when you get to that area, then we consent as to whether we're going to talk about them or not opposed to having to go through the agenda.

Yeah. that the consent agenda will be litigating and then I move to approve the consent agenda or I move to take one this particular item off and then you covered four items with that knowing that just as it's written it's going to go to the next meeting for you to vote on it. What do you think of that? Um maybe you don't want to decide tonight. I'm just saying as a tool that decisions are leading to them. Yeah, it's hard to think, but it's something to think about. Yeah, something to think about.

But I do agree that by 10:00 last Tuesday, I was a walking crabby lady. Never. Okay, I was going to very briefly bring up the fact that it's 12 days of Earth and um there's things going on all the time. Um but there's a shred of death on Friday. Hill 2 parking lot Midtown parking lot and then uh the parading street fair Saturday. No, what time?

Uh 11 o' and um we're doing tree planting with the academy kids at the at the academy on on birthday and the tree planting is on Saturday or Sunday. for tree planting his birthday which is the 22nd Wednesday. Okay. Anything else? It starts Thursday, but I don't think we're going to be a little probably not. Okay. Anything else?