City Council - Regular Meeting

I can't

[applause]

Good evening. Sorry, nobody's in trouble. Uh, sorry to make you jump. Good evening. Welcome to tonight's Cowell City Council uh town hall meeting on the railroad quiet zones. Thank you for that. Uh we appreciate each and every one of you that are here. We do know some had to leave yesterday and are back today. So, we'll make sure we prioritize those that uh had to leave early yesterday. Um just as a refresher, this town hall is to hear your input. That's one thing I talked about time and time again. We want to make sure we hear you no matter your vantage point. Uh we do ask obviously especially we're here on a Friday night. We actually had a really good meeting yesterday. So we ask everyone to please be respectful. Right? We have differing views and we want to make sure that we listen quietly and be respectful to those differing views. Tonight we just want to reiterate that we must refrain from clapping, cheering, booing, or other disruptive behaviors. Obviously I will warn those in violation and end the meeting if it were to get out of control. We did allow clapping last night for a gentleman that was 100. So turning 100. So that was a joyous moment. So there will be caveats to that. But um just be clear, please, you know, respect everyone else. And also please be respectful to council. They are here on a Friday night which is not normal in two nights in a row. So they given plenty of opportunity for you all to be heard, including the comments that we've been getting through email and such. Um, if you wish to speak tonight, please make sure that you've written your name on the sign-in. Is there still additional signins out there that are available? Okay. Um, we do have the sign-in sheet so far and then if you come in or you know someone coming later, please make sure they sign up and please indicate that you want to speak. Um, each speaker will given three minutes to address the council. Remaining time is shown and the clock behind us is on the wall. The city clerk will announce, sorry, I will announce when your time is expired. There's one clock up here. Of course, we'll be

watching the one up here. Um, please keep your comments relevant to the issue and don't repeat, you don't necessarily have to repeat comments that are made by others. Of course, you do have that three minutes, but if you just agree with others, that's also okay to say that. Um, one important thing I want to stress is, you know, once again, I know we have differing views, but please don't attack council directly. Just stick to the matter. Um, so don't call them out with their names. Just generally address us and address me specifically. Um, tonight's session will be from 5 to 8:00 p.m. Another caveat to that is if we do run out of speakers, we'll give it a few minutes, maybe take a recess, and then if no one else has come forth, then we'll go ahead and end the meeting at that point. So, we're not here all night. Um, other than that, we are going to start out with two presentations. They're going to be a little more brief tonight. I would ask both presenters to be brief compared to last night. Um, it is on record on video if you do need to go watch the longer sessions. But first, we'll start with uh Bruce Mills, our cobalt deputy director of transportation. And just so everyone's aware, councelor Allgood did have a pre-planned event tonight when we were planning this. Um there was some finagling going on with scheduling the basis of what was going to happen in the meetings and such and we were not able to meet the scheduling of all to be here. So I take responsibility for that for councelor all good not being able to have um time tonight because he has a pres-scheduled event. Other than that, uh, we'll go ahead and begin with Mr. Mills. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council, and citizens. Uh, I'm going to be very quick tonight, so I'll go through these slides pretty fast. We know the qu a quiet zone is where the the horns would no longer blow. The gates, flashing lights, and bells would still occur uh at these crossings. There are uh three quiet zones currently in Idaho. Um, so we'd be the fourth. Kuna is interested in potentially being one as well. And there are a little over a thousand quiet zones with 5,700 crossings in the United States. To establish a quiet zone, I'm not going to read all these steps, but there's a lot of steps, a lot of applications, a lot of back and forth with the uh the Federal Railroad Administration and Union Pacific and particularly. So, at this point, we've gone through all the permitting process. We received approval from the FRA last August and obtained bids for the project and we're at that point right now. [snorts] Uh in 2014, Caldwell began um looking at quiet zones. The cost seemed prohibitive at the time, so it was kind of put on hold. Uh resurrected somewhere around 24 and uh that's what's happening so far. website. Uh we're proposing seven different crossings that are shown here. There are 17 trains on average from Union Pacific that pass through each day. Uh roughly half in the night and half in the daytime. Uh the mitigation if you're going to do a quiet zone is you have to propose some way of making it safer if you're going to have them stop blowing the horns. So uh our proposal is to put in concrete medians as you approach the tracks so that people cannot go around the gates which is the most common accident that happens at gated intersections is people try to

run the gates um get there ahead of the train and fail. Uh we have to close off any nearby streets and put up lots of warning signs. Uh are they safe? Well, the Federal Railroad Administration did a study in 2020. Uh, and it basically came back, they they studied quiet zones before they were put in an after to see that the accidents changed. They found no real virtual difference. And in the type of quiet zone we're putting in, they actually found a roughly a 40% um decrease in accidents. The one thing to keep in mind is even with a quiet zone in place, it will not be quiet all the time. If the engineers see anything on the tracks that they see as a hazard ahead, animals, people, vehicles, anything, they will still blast their horns uh as they go through. So, uh, one of the things that was talked about quite a bit last night, uh, both by the council, by by the, uh, citizens was pedestrian safety because, you know, the the quiet zones have lots of, um, requirements for the cars, but really little for the pedestrians. So, uh, in looking at some different options, um, that other states have done, and there's a lot of these down in the state of Utah in their quiet zones. Bruce, can you give me just a minute? Just to clarify, this is new information from last. Correct.

This one slide is new information. Yes. Refresher to council. [clears throat]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, so yeah, I'm addressing that um those comments from last night. So, um this would be a relatively inexpensive option to put in at the five of the seven crossings have pedestrian um sidewalks. And so, for those five, this would be a a pretty cheap way to put those in. I would estimate it would be, you know, maybe 40,000 or under probably to do all of this. I also believe I I've reached out to Union Pacific but did not get an answer back yet that it would be relatively minor to make this change, not a major you got to go back to square one and start over again. I'll know that on Monday hopefully, but I wasn't able to get it for this meeting. Uh quiet zone. The benefit is that obviously there's a lot less um horn blast. So it's it's uh it's quieter for all the people that are near the tracks, residents, businesses, whoever. Uh especially when the safety measures are put in. Um that will definitely help so people cannot no longer go around the tracks. Uh the schedule uh the bid we got was about 163,000 and with some of the other costs we have to pay um it will come out to about 238,000. If we do these pedestrian improvements that could add another 30 40,000 in into those costs. Um as far as maintenance costs, there really are no maintenance costs other because what we're putting in is not maintenanceheavy. Concrete isn't isn't very maintenanceheavy. signs. You may have to go and replace a sign once in a while, but but in any event, um and there are no annual fees to Union Pacific. Uh the implementation, depending if there's a decision soon, it still might slide to July or something like that, but sometime this summer, we should be able to do it if we move

forward. Uh what's next? after the workshops, then we we need to consider whether we're gonna the council needs to consider whether to award the construction contract or not. And that's with that I'll stand for questions. Uh thank you, Mr. Mills. Council, councelor Stodd. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Bruce, uh do you think that the city's going to put those uh barriers up for the pedestrians or will somebody else do that? Is that part of the contract then? Oh, I we would put it in the contract because anytime you're working within 25 ft of the tracks, you have to have a railroad flagger. They cost about a,000 bucks a day. So, we would want to do all the work at the same time.

Okay. So, all that would be in the contract then. Yes. For the whoever you choose. Correct. If we would do a we would do a change order to the contract. Okay. All right. Thank you. Yes, sir. Any other questions from council? Just to clarify on that, would we have to adjust some of the sidewalks? pull out sidewalk and readjust it to make that little jaunt back. Yes, I believe we would either with concrete or with asphalt. We have some of them that are asphalt and some that are concrete. So, it would require a little bit of a bump out. Would you say generally we would stay under the 400,000 that we've appropriated for that? Oh, absolutely. I this if we're at 240, we wouldn't spend anywhere near that 160. Okay.

Yeah. Any other questions from council? All right. Is that anything else? All right. Thank you. All right. Next up, uh, Mr. Steve Roomba. And just to clarify for the crowd. Steve is a former railroad engineer. Um, he gave a presentation last night, but he's not speaking on behalf of the railroad, just providing insight from his previous experience.

All right. Well, thank you for this opportunity. I' I'd like to u respond to some things that uh I think were made light of with my of my comments last night. Uh there was a couple of comments about Amtrak engineers talking about how how it's uh really great to run in a quiet zone. And uh I'd like to point out that uh Amtrak trains are uh rarely more than 14 cars long or more than 1500 tons in weight. A typical freight train going through Caldwell is 100 120 cars sometimes more. 800 or 8,000 tons to 12,000 tons. Sometimes a little more than that. There's a lot of slack in that train. Takes a completely different kind of handling than an Amtrak train. I would not put any weight into what an Amtrak engineer has to say about running freight trains through Caldwell. I'll give you an example, a little for instance. Uh I'm approaching Caldwell. Uh I'm on a train uh going 60 miles an hour. It's mixed freight. Uh, I probably got about 120 cars. Uh, I got a signal indication going westbound that tell me I've got to slow down from 60 to 40. The expected movement is to throttle down and go into dynamic braking. That causes a lot of slack adjustment, cause 120 cars worth of slack to adjust. has to be done smoothly with some finesse or we risk derailing the train in your fine city. Very likely I have hands hazmat in the contest and uh I really don't want to have any of that

spilled. I'm watching my gauges to monitor the amperage load and the slack adjustment. It takes no extra attention at all for me to blow the horn as I do this. And trust me, that's a good thing. And excuse me, but I'm going to get blunt. Without the horn, an approaching train is surprisingly quiet until it gets next to you. That is, which do you want me to concentrate the most on? smooth train handling so I don't spill chlorine gas in downtown Caldwell or watching for kids running across the track at odd locations other than sidewalks. I choose keeping the train on the track. That's the best for everyone except for the kid that I hit because he didn't hear or look and I didn't see him. I put the train into emergency stop when I notice the kid isn't going to make it. Kid dies anyway. I go home with an attab boy because I did everything I'm supposed to do. But I feel like a worm and can't sleep for two months. Every waking moment I hear that thud

over and over again. That's the reality about running trains through Caldwell. Now, if I may, I'd like to remind everybody of what it is that uh that you're getting for your money. You're getting less horn sound. This is a train going through. This is what we plan to get rid of. This is what we still have. Let's go for another two minutes in this video. Now, you may you may not uh realize it, but the sound of the train going by without the horn is still going to wake people up. It's still going to make phone calls difficult. I've lived through it myself. I know what it's like. So, with that, if there's any questions, I'll stand for them. Uh, council, any questions? All right. Thank you, sir. All right. We all ready? Um, just I'm looking at the list. There's a couple people that spoke last night, so we're going to keep it to one one time. Um, that being said, we had a gentleman leave last night that had a an emergency. So, we're going to start with Mr. Travis Palmer. spoke last night. I have some other comments that are different. May I speak

later?

Uh let us get through the first speakers first and then we can speak with council to determine you know just we have to look at how many have spoke, how long questioning goes on and then see what time we have left and then we'll we can definitely revisit that. I'll just ask councel at that point. So Mr. Palmer, go ahead and come forward and then you'll have three minutes. Just a reminder, your clock uh is up here and just keep an eye on it. Thank you, mayor, members of the council. Uh, Travis Palmer, Calwell Chamber of Commerce, 101 Blaine Street. Uh, I'll start my time by reading a statement from our board of directors. The Caldwell Chamber of Commerce recognizes the proposed railroad quiet zone as part of a broader conversation about economic vitality and quality of life along the the railroad corridor. A quiet zone is a designated area where train horns are not routinely sounded at public crossings only after enhanced safety measures are installed to meet or exceed federal requirements. These measures may include upgraded gates, warning systems, raised medians, and improved signage and pavement markings to discourage unsafe crossings. Thoughtfully implemented infrastructure improvements can create a more welcoming environment for businesses, residents, and visitors. They can also enhance customer and workplace experiences near the corridor and contribute to a broader placemaking and revitali revitalization efforts. The chamber appreciates the city's engagement with the community on this issue and remains committed to supporting initiatives that strengthen both safety and long-term economic vitality. And then with the time that I have left, um I just wanted to say a few additional things. There is a lot of support for the quiet zone. You might not see a lot of it on social media, but for those who have walked doortodoor in neighborhoods near the tracks to speak to the residents, they overwhelmingly support the quiet

zone. For those who have spoken to businesses in the area, answered questions, and given factual information, there is again overwhelming support for the quiet zone. For those who have taken the time to call communities where quiet zones exist, they will tell you it has been a huge improvement to their communities. According to the Federal Railroad Administration's own safety and risk assessment system, with lower numbers meaning lower risk, as R7 crossings sit today, the FRA's risk index is 28,028 points. With the quiet zone improvements, the risk drops to 17,637 points. If you're truly concerned about safety, we should be listening to the people whose job it is it whose job it is to assess the safety of these crossings. There's always going to be a debate about the best use of taxpayer dollars. And there will always be be an argument that money should be spent on project A instead of project B. I support this project because it brings money back to the city and it takes pressure off of our taxpaying residents of Caldwell. It encourages reinvestment into the most blighted and most distressed area of our city and it costs significantly less than the budget was set for and the return on this investment will far outweigh the same amount of money spent on any other project that I've seen proposed by the city in any recent time. We owe it to the people who live in this area to show them that we care. They've publicly stated that they feel like, and I I'll wrap up. This is almost done. They've publicly stated that they feel like they're from the land that time forgot. We have a chance to improve safety, reduce noise pollution, and improve their quality of life. And we can do it at a price that is far less than most other communities have to pay for these improvements because most of the work here is already done. Why would

we not want to invest in the heart of Caldwell? Let's listen to the experts. Listen to the experience of the cities that have already been down this road and let's listen to the people that live and work there. Thank you. [clears throat] I'll stand you with that. Uh questions from council counselor register. Hello. Um just a quick question. There was a study that you referenced about the safety and the points. Was that specific to this setup or all setups um like with the upgraded gates and the upgraded pedestrian crossings and all that kind of stuff or

That's the information that I got from the city engineer Bruce Mills. Um that was in his presentation. So yes, that that is the the before number I believe was 28,000 and change and the after risk assessment is cut by nearly 42%. Okay. with exactly this setup and then do you well I guess you won't know I'll ask Bruce um later okay my other question thank you do you want to do you need that question answer right now

well so the the question I have um is out of all the quiet zones that you mentioned before um and the um positive feedback they're getting are they set up the same way that we're setting up ours or do they have enhanced safety um I I checked We have six cities in the northwest and five of them are set up like we are. Um, Billings, Montana has quad gates. The others have Thank you. And just to clarify, when you said set up like we are, you mean how we would be set up if they were to be approved at the current design? Yes.

And to to add to that, uh, I spoke with um I tried I contacted a second. Do you have any additional questions? Is do you want him to continue? Did you have additional information? Okay. All right. Yeah, we'll just go ahead and Does any questions from council? All right. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate this. Next up, it's going to be Steve. Sorry, Steve, you already spoke. Um, Jim Hollis, just a reminder, we have the clock up here for the three minutes. I don't have my glasses, so I'm sure you'll let me know.

There'll also be a buzzer. Thank you, sir.

Good evening. My name is Jim Hollis. I've lived here my entire life. I was raised at 1207 Albany, Kitty Corner from the courthouse, right next to the tracks. It was kind of a feature in our house when a train come by and they used to run the cars by uh before they were covered for to protect from vandalism. We used to go see what kind of new cars were coming in. So uh you get used to it. You don't even notice it. So uh before I get started with the quiet zone, it's like uh I have some questions. Why are we considering this prior to a plan or an idea on how we will proceed concerning a master plan? Isn't it? Aren't we putting the the cart before the horse? Without proper planning and forethought, the last four years in city government, we have experienced an absolute mess. Roger Brooks had anou in which he was to conduct public outreach, community engagement, stakeholder workshops, and none of this has ever happened, but maybe the stakeholder workshops. So, the citizens haven't weighed in on any of these opinions or the vision, but now the quiet zone is being shoved through as if the plan has already passed. there was to be various citizen representatives throughout the process. This didn't happen either. This is concerning and I feel that it's time for the city to ask for their money back because theou has not been followed. But now we're here to decide a quiet zone. So the quiet zone isn't uh is a want. It's not a need. We need student safety, infrastructure improvements before we need to silence the flippid horns. One of the counselors was quoted in a newspaper saying that we need to have a

quiet zone for HUD housing. He stated it needs to be noise-free in order to get HUD housing. This is false. And he misspoke again. I spoke with a gentleman at HUD and he shared that they build homes all the time near railroad tracks, under overpasses, by overpasses by 10 lane freeways. According to the HUD website, HUD assisted housing projects located near railroad tracks require specific environmental reviews to manage noise, vibration, and safety hazards. Projects must meet HUD's safety and noise standards and often require noise mitigation if they exceed acceptable decibel levels as rail proximity can impact marketability and safety. And while HUD no longer has specific noise requirements for single family homes, multif family or condominium projects as long as the building is more than a half a mile from the tracks, there is no assessment needed. the correct or full story. Builders must complete form HUD92541. Just about done and they need to have mitigation approval. So, a quiet zone is not required for HUD housing. Roger Brooks is quoted saying quiet zones unlock major investment potential. Without the quiet zone, nearly 400 million potential development in central Caldwell would be stalled or lost. According to Dell King, superintendent for the hotel project, he was adamant that the hotel next to the railroad tracks wasn't an issue nor a problem. He empathetically stated that commercial builders know how to build for noise and vibration mitigation. Is Dale King lying or is Roger Brooks? There is a development along the tracks already. Why can't future development use the same noise vibration mitigation construction? You do not you do not need

a quiet zone strictly for future development as pushed by Roger Brooks. Roger Brooks, where are you? Let's just reframe from uh sir, do you want uh stand for any questions from council? Councelor Stok. Yeah, Mr. Mayor, I was I can't remember who told me it was either urban renewal or maybe it was the chamber that Roger had a couple meetings with residents close to 100 or something it was. Is that correct? I can answer that. Okay. Councelor Stoic, would you like the gentleman to come forward? Yes, please. All right. Sorry, real quick. Do we have any other questions we're going to be asked for Mr. Alice?

Just wanted to correct, you know, the statement. That's what I heard. So, so Roger, when Roger came to down, we offered uh um Mayor Phillips, remember you you came down uh we told you to bring whoever you wanted down. you brought 10 people. Um, we had the north uh corridor. Miguel, can't remember Miguel's last name. He brought about 35. I do have people that registered for that. And so I if you want to see a list of names, I can give you a list of names, but you know, and and that's just the two that I hosted at my office. Thank you. Just a clarification, that wasn't as mayor, but that was back as a private citizen. Yes, there was a

but we asked you quite some time ago 100%. So, um we asked you to bring whoever you want. Yeah, there was a group. All right. Sorry. Next up for speaking is Brent here. Yes. Go ahead.

Always know if it's me when you can't pronounce a last name. So, Oddkin. There has been a challenge to with the way some people write their name. It's hard to read, but thank you.

Good evening. Uh my name is Brent Atkin. My business is located at 7th in Maine, and I host leadership teams and business owners from across the church valley in my space uh pretty much every week. And I also serve on the board of directors for Destination Caldwell and the downtown business improvement district. uh my my employees and I and my clients, we experienced firsthand the disruption of the train horns during our meetings. Um the interrupt conversations and the presentations and the impact the the flow and the kind of the professionalism. So get comments frequently from from clients as the as the horns go through. So it's different than the train noise that was presented on that video. It's also it's mainly the horns that are the are the noise and the issue. Uh what we're talking about here isn't a simple whistlebl federally compliant quiet zones require engineered safety improvements beyond standard gates and lights. Replaces the reliance on sound with physical protections designed to reduce risky crossing behavior and horns are still allowed. So I think that's a bit of a moot point in that regard. Uh this really is a safety upgrade in my opinion. It's also fiscally responsible. The engineering has been completed. The funding's been set aside. Abandoning a project at this stage does not demonstrate prudence. It creates waste and undermines confidence in the city's planning discipline. Sound fiscal management means following through on vetted budget commitments unless there's new evidence to justify stopping them. And this is not an expense with no return. Infrastructure decisions shape private investment. Reduced noise improves livability. Livability supports property values. Property values strengthen the tax base. And over time, the stability created by th thoughtful infrastructure outweighs the cost of installing and maning it maintaining it. Uh the cost of inaction may not show up immediately, but it appears later installed investment and reduce confidence in the city's direction. Growth in the Treasure Valley is not theoretical. It's happening. The question is not whether Caldwell is going to grow. The question is is

whether we're going to guide that growth through thoughtful long-term decisions or allow the growth to happen to us and just uh take what is given to us. Uh infrastructure choices like this signal what kind of city we intend to be. They signal whether we honor our commitments and plan ahead. This decision is bigger than the train horns. It's really about following through on responsible planning and positioning Caldwell um plans and wants to grow on our our own terms. Approving the spending of already budgeted funds for this federally compliant quiet zone honors the prior due diligence enhances engineered safety protections and reinforces confidence in the direction of our city. Thank you for your time. Stand for any questions.

Questions from council. All right. Thank you, sir. Um, next will be Phyllis. Would you like to go ahead? Thank you, sir.

My name is Phyllis Eastep. I live at 2308 Terrace Drive in Caldwell. I've lived in Caldwell since 1995. Um I have a few questions that I would like to ask the council to address, not to me but in your decision- making. First of all, um the number one question that I have because I lost a child in Caldwell is what about the safety? Okay, so we have those nice little cute little fancy things and we're going to have 4H kids walking their car, their cow across the street through that little fancy thing to get to their 4H thing to do at the fairgrounds. That's ludicrous. Sorry. Um, second of all, the safety that works really good at the intersections. We can put down fences and blow horns and everything. What about between the intersections? Lots of people go across the railroad tracks. They may not see it because it's not far close enough. They may not hear it because it doesn't have a horn until it's on them. How much is a life worth in Caldwell for a horn? Now, I believe, and I may be wrong, but trains were in Caldwell before residents and businesses mostly. Okay? And all of the businesses that have come to Calwell knew that there were residents and businesses here that adapted and lived with the sound of trains. Okay, JC Penney and Sears and all those guys, they never had a problem with a train horn. They lived through it. So I don't understand what the problem is except for the only two things I can figure out is the hotel apartment things by Indian Creek and the new hotel. Those are the only two things I can see that really benefit from making it quiet. Okay. The second question is I've asked about the costs from millions of people and nobody really knows but it's going to be something. Okay. And then if we add this it's going to be something and if we don't add this it's going to be

something but we don't have any really hard numbers and I can't do my budget with a maybe because it doesn't balance. So I'm hoping you don't either. Number three is I want to know who proposed this quiet zone for Caldwell, Idaho, one in 5,000 in the United States. And who is going to benefit the most? Is it me, the resident who lives in Canyon Hill, and goes out at 11:00 at night almost every night, and listens to the train horn and thinks, "Gosh, it's great to be home." Or is it going to be some dude in a hotel that's here for the weekend to sell whatever? I live here. Save my country, save my state, save my town. I like trains, obviously. Then again, we're back to safety. As Bruce said, the average freight train, which is what we have, I have not seen Amtrak. The average freight train weighs 8,000 to 12,000 freight tons. You don't just stop that when you can't even stop a a semi on the freeway. You don't just stop that train because some kid their dog ran across it. I mean all the respect in the world to all of you, but this is not just the businesses town. I love the businesses. This is not just the new people. If you want to live in Boisee, hang a pride flag and move. This is Caldwell.

Thank you. Thank you. Any questions from council? Very good. All right. With that, we will move on. Thank you. Um, Donald,

thank you. Uh, Donald Eep. I've been a resident of Caldwell, Idaho since I was born. I live at 2308 Terrace Drive. My parents were business owners. As a matter of fact, I believe their businesses, Farm City Bookkeeping, was on the railroad tracks at 21st and the Railroad. My mom worked her entire life at the OK Livestock at 21st and Railroad. And so as a little kid, I played on the railroad tracks my entire life, smashing pennies and coins. And that's just part of a good childhood memory. I'm having trouble being able to make a decision for or against this quiet zone. And it's because as a city government, I'm seeing some maybe flaws in the behaviors that have brought about us, brought us to this place where we're at right now. Did I fail to mention that I'm a behavioralist counselor and that's what I do for a living, did for a living until I recently retired? Um, I was a licensed social worker and a and a certified counselor. And it seems like there's been some meetings that have been held in discussion about this process outside of the city domain. There's been, according to some of the information I've gathered, a hundred or yeah, $111,000 of city money, taxpayer money, and a total amount of $169,000 of money paid to an individual under a contract to produce a visionary plan for what's going to happen here. And that plan has never been released to the public. However,

the plan is completed from resources I've had that have told me so. It's just some of the stakeholders which I believe destination Caldwell Chamber of Commerce, City of Caldwell and some prominent business people, Mr. Carpenter, Mr. Jenkins, Mr. Pilot. A decision was made to hold that plan from the public view because it was quote said to me, it was too controversial for the public to see. I'm afraid that there may be if this plan goes through or if this goes through without having seen that plan that there could possibly be some malfeence in there in the expenditure of some taxpayer money without having held that contract viable prior to this decision having been made because the decision is based on what is in that plan. That might also help some of the citizens see that maybe some things need to change here. And that's why I propose and this will just take one second if you're willing to allow me to continue.

Go ahead and continue.

This would take just a meeting of the minds of a couple of the prominent people for it and a couple of the pro I can't lift this arm. couple of the prominent people against it coming together to discuss the common ground in it then discuss their issues about it and maybe sit down to discuss what are some of the possible solutions. Now that also was a process that was built into thatou for Mr. Brooks to have done that. So again, I'm thinking you need to back up in your process and use the process properly and eliminate the distrust amongst the citizens of Caldwell and make it very transparent what needs to happen.

All right. Thank you with that. And uh any questions from councel? All right. Seeing none. Thank you, sir. Mr. Mayor, sorry. May I just make one more statement quick? Uh, no. We got We have to move on. I appreciate you wanting to, but yeah, we have to move forward. Um, all right. Uh, Miss Julie Yamamoto. Sorry. Did you speak as Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, Miss Debbie Guyire

saying not to testify, but I am in favor of it. Thank you. Um, Elaine Carpenter, please come forward. Mr. Mayor and honorable city council, Elaine Carpenter, 1102 Grant in Caldwell. I sat in a council person's chair albeit many years ago. Thank you for your service to Caldwell. This is not an all always an easy task that you have signed up for. Our bishu our big issue back there was irrigation. People can get pretty upset about water. Our meetings on that issue declined into a freefor-all with no respect and decorum displayed either from the audience participants or the mayor at that time. I have totally appreciated the civility which has been shown in these hearings last night and tonight. I'm a bit of a historian, so bear with me. The train and nostalgia. Yes. My family homesteaded between Wilder and Homedale in 197. The train with its steam locomotive and distinct whistle brought my forebears to Idaho. It later transported the egg crops they raised out of the area. It brought in farm equipment and literally the Sears Robuck house ready to be assembled. that was our family home. Caldwell exists because of the railroad.

Times change, but the trains is still a very important part of our town. We are also more aware of things like water pollution, air pollution, and forgive me if I say noise pollution. We are bombarded with noise in our lives. Early in our marriage 60 years ago, Johnny Cash performed at Simplot Stadium. Really, I don't know if anyone else was here, but can you imagine the scenario when his performance was interrupted with a passing train? He stopped midong, made some apppropo comments, and if I remember correctly, he mentioned the train song that he was famous for. I hear a train coming. Of course, Simplot Stadium erupted in laughter. Caldwell Economic Development took responsibility to save our Caldwell depot from destruction by the UP. We managed to negotiate with them after they demanded that we move it 12 feet down 7th Street away from the tracks. Have you ever attended a meeting in that historic building when the train comes through with the whistleblowing? Our business operated for 43 years with the tracks immediate I'm almost done. I know it's going to go off. Our business operated for 43 years with the tracks immediately behind the building. I cannot count the number of times we had to pause conversations in plant or on the phone because of the trains horns of the trains passing through. A quaint touch but not really conducive to a professional business climate. I fully support the creation of a quiet zone through Caldwell. It lays a foundation for our future, for residents, for businesses, and for those who choose to come to our town from out of town. We

worked for years to have this happen. We have become a desirable destination in the valley. If the UP, which is notoriously difficult to deal with, is comfortable signing off on the Caldwell Quiet Zone Plan, so am I. After hearing citizen testimony, it seems to me that the pedestrian safety issue has been brought up numerous times and deserves thoughtful consideration to be included. The logistics of this course of course would need to be worked out whether now as a quiet zone is implemented or as a phase two with a commitment on the part of this council to include it in the overall plan. Thank you for the opportunity to speak.

Thank you very much for your comments. Uh any questions from council? All right. Thank you. All right. Next will be Devin Hammore. Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Devon Halammore. I'm a resident at 811 South 6th Avenue. Um, and I spent a lot of my youth growing up in Caldwell. [snorts] I've previously submitted comments um on the proposed quiet zone. So tonight, I'd like to focus on one additional perspective that I think is important to consider. As someone with a background in conservation, I want to highlight the impacts of noise pollution, not just on people, but on the livestock and wildlife that call our community home as well. Repeated loud noise like train horns can trigger stress responses and livestock, disrupting normal feeding and resting behavior. For wildlife, sound is essential for communication, finding mates, detecting predators, and caring for young. When loud human noise repeatedly interrupts those natural sound cues, it can increase stress and cause animals to avoid otherwise suitable habitat. Noise pollution is something wildlife managers increasingly consider when creating healthy landscapes. Reducing unnecessary noise through a quiet zone would benefit residents, livestock, and wildlife alike, and it may also help position the city for grants or funding opportunities that are currently harder to access because of existing noise conditions. Tending to livestock and wildlife has always been part of Caldwell's identity, and I think efforts that reduce unnecessary impacts on animals reflect our community's values of stewardship and care for the land and animals we depend on. I also believe it's important for Caldwell to be known as a city that follows through on plans and commitments. A significant amount of

work toward the quiet zone has already been initiated and continuing forward is an opportunity for us to demonstrate our integrity and consistency as a community. Projects like this involve long-term partnerships and follow-through helps build trust and strengthen our reputation as a reliable partner. Thank you for your time and for considering continued progress toward the quiet zone and responsible sustainable stewardship. Uh thank you for your comments. Any questions from council? All right. Thank you. Um next up, Mr. Chris Trle.

Uh my name is Chris Trael. I live at 2019 Fairview Avenue. Um and to make this quick, I'd like to ask a question from the body. Where is the what basis type are we following under under the uh 49 code? Because this will really cut down on my speech on the numbers I have. Council doesn't know what basis type of safety precautions we're falling under. Okay. Do you guys know at least what type of uh Draco? I think that would be a a question for Mr. Mill. No, it should be a question for my city council.

I mean, you guys are the ones making decisions. I hope you guys are the ones reading the regulations and the rules. Um, but so I'll just go, okay, I'm blown away by this, but anyways, I'm going to debate first some of the things that were brought up. It was mentioned that cars are the number one accident. Nobody gave you numbers. Nobody gave you source. That's not true. From the United States Department of Transportation, Federal Railroad Administration, pedestrian people walking crossings are the number one cause of casualties. And where do they happen at? Not at the crosswalk said we're talking about putting up barriers. they happen making it a shortcut across the way and I have numbers on those. I have a six-year study from the same exact organization. They studied 333 quiet zones put in. Group one, group two, group three. Group one was one year before, one year after. Group two is two years before, two years after. Group three, three years before, three years after. Group one, 109 quiet zones. Group two, 113 quiet zones. Group one, 111 quiet zones. [snorts] Since nobody knows what type of stasis we fall under, um casualties rose 15.9% for new wayside horns, 100% increase in casualties. Pre sorry my rule pre- rule 7 200% increase in casualties overall for year one they had a 32% increased or no sorry that's incorrect. [snorts] So, under basis type, since we don't know what type of basis type protocols, the council seems to know what they're putting in 22.39

alpha I 8.3 increase in casualties. 22.39 alpha 2100% casualty increase. 22.39 alpha 211 125 in uh casualties. 222.39 alpha 3 78.9% increase in casualties 22.39 B41 alpha 42.1 and 22.41 22.41 41 alpha. There was not enough uh study in those. There was only two of them in that six-year period. What I'm getting at is this is another fiasco of I'm going to finish my statement. Another fiasco of parking meters. We didn't want them. You put them in the hotel. We didn't want it. You put it in the railroad quiet zones. How much is a kid's life worth when they're playing on the tracks? You guys seem to want it. We don't. It was heard. Well, the majority isn't here. If the majority is too lazy to come here and speak to it, guess what? They don't care enough to have a quiet zone. You were all elected to represent us. Remember that. You're not here to represent the hotel manager that wants a quiet zone so we can get more business. And notice, we get three minutes and I'm sure they got a hell of a lot more than three minutes.

Can you send out study? Hold on just a second. Hold on. What's that? Can you send that? Yeah, gladly. United States Department of Transportation. Just recognize council register. Oh, sorry. Yeah, I should know that. Federal Railroad Administration. Uh, it was released between April 2019 and September 2020, and it was a six-year study that took place from 2012 to 2018. 333 quiet zones. Okay. And one thing I would like to point out, we're only putting in barriers, right? Wrath Rath. Yes. That's

Rather supposedly did the same thing. That's the only one I can find numbers on in Idaho. They said they were only putting in barriers, $500,000. Ended up costing $12 million. So, if you guys think this project is going to cost, as a former senator, if you think this is going to cost $400,000, I got a bridge on 10th Street, come see me. I'll sell it to you. So, um I have a question. [clears throat] Uh sir, do you would you like to answer additional question for council register? Sorry. Yeah. For the do you know what caused that increase in

the lack of uh safety features? There's the horn going away. That's been in uh all of these the safety features. Remove the horns. Um and that's what's been removed. The horn is not there to sound the oncoming train coming. You might have kids running along the tracks. I mean, I did it. Where? How many 80 kids? Well, I'm just I guess what I'm wondering is did they provide any reason why it went why their budget went from five 100,000 to Oh, wrath. No, I couldn't find too much information. You know, it's one of those government screw-ups that we like to hide. So, thank you. All right. Any additional questions from council? All right. Thank you, sir. Yes, sir.

And then next up, um All right. I think the remainder is all nos. Um Nicole Trle, would you like to speak? I wasn't going to, but I changed my mind. Okay, thank you. Would you please come forward? And just a reminder, we're going through all the people that have not spoke yet and then we'll question council which is the last remaining if they would like any additional input. Go ahead.

Nicole Trle and I live on Fair View and I just hearing things today. I wasn't going to speak, but I um I get emotional about the trains because I had a friend who was killed, her family um by being hit by a train and it was in Utah and they were on vacation there and after hearing the presenter speaking of Utah having a lot of quiet zones, I tend to wonder if that's where their car got stuck on the tracks and and like the first gentleman that mentioned when you're doing all these other things as you're coming through a town, maybe he didn't see their car sitting on the track because one thing that goes through my mind all the time is why didn't they get out of the car and run my friend or husband and her two kids and um you're just like why didn't they get out and leave and all I can think of is maybe it was one of those quiet zones and the train did not see them and that's what happened to them and so I just think too the horn is such an integral part any of us hear a train horn you look up like without even meaning to it's just drilled in when you see that you look up and it makes you so much more aware and other barriers that signs. I don't know, we've see them driving around, you'll see a sign, but after you see it a few times, you don't even notice it's there, but anytime you hear that horn, you're going to look up. And I think it's still such an important part of noticing a train coming. Thank you.

Thank you. Any questions from council? All right. Next up is Kyle Mallister. Please come forward and just remember the clock

for three minutes will be up there. Thank you. I'm Kyle Mallister. I live at 3020 Village Green Street. Um I just want to let you guys know I'm an employee at Canon County. I'm not speaking on their behalf, but I have a background in public safety. And one thing that happens a lot are that the the gates malfunction and we see lots of calls there where um people [clears throat] will go people will then try to drive through or around which I know they're trying to prevent that but my concern is when people see the gates about to close they're going to try to get through real quick and with the new technology I think they're going to be stuck. they're not going to be able to get out of it like they have like they can currently and that might result in a fatality. Again, that's [clears throat] just what I no one's told me that, but this is kind of what I see coming down the line. Um, also [clears throat] another concern just like with the cost, I see so many calls with intersections that are dangerous and I feel like we need to focus more of our taxpayer money on fixing crossings, fixing dangerous intersections that don't have lights, things like that, because that's where we're seeing a lot of our fatalities. And [clears throat] also just having lived in Caldwell much of my life, there's an issue that I've noticed [clears throat] how nostalgic it is with the trains here. They have like a train show every year now and people come here just for train spotting. And I feel like losing the horn would also would also [clears throat] lose a big part of our heritage and why people come here to [clears throat] or to to train spot and to just enjoy what we have here in

Caldwell. I guess that's pretty much it for now. Any questions for council? All right. Move on with Debbie Simpson.

Okay. All right. We'll move on. Uh K Arnett K, please come forward. Announced it correctly. Impressed.

Thank you for writing it. [laughter] My name is Kay Arnett and I currently live at 5200 Midway Road, trailer number 34. But back in 2010, I was a resident for a short time in Hardy Estates. Granted, the trailer I was in was probably the farthest from the tracks as you could get, but never once did the horn bother me. It was the vibration of making my whole house shake that frustrated me more than anything. I'm 70 years old and to me a train horn signifies safety. I have seen the result of kids who have been walking along the track and they're alive because a train coming up behind them sounded their horn. That's a wonderful feeling. It's not so wonderful when you see the aftermath of a car that got stuck and they couldn't get out in time. I've seen both. I would not want to live in a city where I couldn't hear the trains on Midway. We're a good mile, mile mile and a half probably from the tracks. But I still listen for those train horns every day, every night because they make me feel good. It's just a wonderful feeling when I hear those horns and I wouldn't want to live in a city where those were silenced. Thank you.

Uh thank you for that. Any question of council? And just for perspective, I think that's less like maybe even a half a mile where you live. I grew up in that same mobile home park um back in the day. So yeah, you're much closer than you realize. Um next up is going to be Michelle Bratton. Hi, my name is Michelle Brandt and I live at 901 Cool Water Court in Caldwell. Um, I understand that I may not fully comprehend your job responsibilities, but if you're asking citizens to unite and avoid division, I strongly advise this council to lead by example. There seems to be a rift among some members and a significant control issue. The council must set a standard. I may not seek personal recognition as some received yesterday. My husband and I are passionate about Caldwell and we dedicate our time to volunteering at the Elks and have worked extensively on the venue hall on on Arthur Street um using our woodworking skills. We've also made numerous efforts to volunteer at the Rice House through the housing authorities website, but unfortunately we never receive any response. Since my family has moved here um in 2001, Caldwell has transformed into a beautiful town. We often visit Indian Creek and downtown. I agree that it has potential to grow, but thoughtful and strategic planning must be implemented before considering this quiet zone. However, it is too late to halt the growth um sprawl by building in downtown Caldwell. Toll Brothers will soon own three of the four corners on Homedale with 1,05 houses along with other

various subdivisions throughout the city. Um, a May 2025 article from Duke University that I researched states that quiet zones are considered less safe because they eliminate the crucial safety feature of the railroad grade crossings leading to increased um crossing accidents over the past 5 years. There have been 938 accidents at quiet zone crossings resulting in 163 fatalities and 297 injuries. These accidents account for 8.8 of all crossings with fatalities compromising 13.2 and injuries at 8.7%. Union Pacific does not support quiet zones because the rem the removal oh sorry because they remove the immediate high decibel warning of train horns which are essential for alerting distracted drivers and pedest pedestrians. I couldn't find the reason behind the limited number of quiet zones na n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n nationwide, but available data suggests that costs and safety concerns are significant factors. A family I personally know who are living at the Tillian apartments reports that train horns do not neg negatively affect them. I grew up in Nampa's north side and actually missed the sound of trains and their horns. And I have no lasting trauma or fear of train of train horns for my childhood. And many people I grew up with cherished the nostalgic sound. In conclusion, beyond opinions, money, control, or the desire to defeat Eric Phillips, this issue fundamentally revolves I'm almost done. around the safety of the citizens and the children, the children who will be showcasing their animals yearly at the Canyon County Fair. I sincerely hope that the council would not want to face the consequences of a death if the quiet zone is implemented. Thank you. I was nervous.

Thank you. Thank you. Uh any questions from council? All right. I believe it's Connie. Are you would you like to Connie speak? I believe it's starts with the last of B L E L E. Okay. Sorry. I was say I didn't Sorry, I couldn't see you. Um, thank you for that. Um, let's see here. Do we have any more signature sheets out there that have been signed? Can we check? Sir, I would like to talk. I didn't sign. I got here late.

Okay. Um, yeah. Let's just We'll have you uh come up. Just state your name. I'll write it in. And then uh if you can state your address and then if you're for or against. In addition, at least one speaker was speaking last night. I'd like to claim my time before tonight. Yes, we'll we'll visit that as soon as we finish up.

Um my name is Evelyn Wise and I'm at uh 3206 Starlight Avenue in Caldwell. Um, number one with the cows, anybody who has the same sound happening all the time can ignore it. Your system learns to ignore it. And I think that's why a lot of people here who live by the railroad tracks don't get waken up at night. And I would also am wondering about all the fog we have. What about the kids walking on the tracks when there's fog? If the corn ain't sounding, they don't see it at all. You know, that that spells disaster to me. We have a lot of fog here. Um, and it seems to me like out of the 78,000 people in Caldwell, it's only the people who live right next to the tracks, which I understand the city does have some land next to the tracks, too, that are going to be really benefiting from this. I feel like we have already expanded too much in Caldwell. Where I live, there is, I would say, a church, six housing tracks going in within a mile. Eustic isn't any wider. How am I going to move once they all get full? And now you want to put a quiet zone. So what? the investors can make more money so their property is worth more. I think we need to widen the roads where you've already agreed that all these housing tracks and apartments can go so we're going to be able to move in the

city. Cuz when all this gets full, we aren't going to everything is going to take probably three times as long to get anywhere because of all of the housing tracks that has already been approved. A lot of us people got out there, stood up, and said we did not want the hotel, but yet there it is. Can we have a vote on this? There's 78,000 people in Caldwell. How many really want yes on this? I would venture to say a few hundred out of 78,000 people. maybe a thousand out of 78,000 people. We're paying for it. I would rather pay for lights and to widen the roads we have so we can move around this city once all these housing gets full.

Um, all right. Any questions from council? Have any of you talked about the fog? Have you discussed that at all? last night. Yeah, we we did talk about it last night. Okay. Thank you very much for your comment. Um we appreciate it. Uh next up will be Megan Wheats. And just since you guys just walked in, uh if you aren't aware, uh we do have a clock right here. We'll set it for three minutes and then it'll have a buzzer at the end and then we'll just finish up. Two, so we should be good. Hopefully. I talk a lot.

My name is Megan Wheats. I uh live at 2222 Farmway Road, Caldwell. Um it's a house that's been there for a really long time from a family that had was part of Caldwell's beginnings. Um they in fact are located TVM recycling right by the train tracks. My B uh my business I had in Caldwell was about three blocks away and I was there for about seven years. I don't think I ever heard besides being late to their hair appointment any disruption from a train. So, um, what I would like to start with, and I'd like to touch on the fog situation, because today it kind of came to my brain about, uh, low visibility traffic areas of change in drivers training laws, road rage, and a mix of new safety structures in low visibility areas. What will they include if the new visible change isn't as visible? Is there going to be a sound? Because growing up in the 80s and 90s, it's forced. We were forced with train safety. You went to the Canyon County Fair, you saw coloring books, stop, look, listen. School buses open up their door. You have to be quiet. It worked. The education that they gave us, it worked. Now, I'm a parent. I'm 38 years old. I worry about my kids' school bus quite a bit. Um, these aren't just lines on a map that we can put stuff. They are lines of everyday use from families in Caldwell. I should probably state this so I have it more structured because I could talk for a long time, but uh train horns are intentionally loud because trains can't stop quickly over a mile in some cases. They're often the last warning before a potential crash, especially when drivers are distracted, windows are closed, or visibility is low. Big trucks work the same way. Sound is the last line of defense near a dangerous load and blind spots. Um there's tons of evidence and that evidence was used to create the programs that taught me about train safety and why our I think our school bus uh school buses still have to stop and listen before they can I don't know if that's

in the training or a requirement but I think that would be really good to look into um sorry okay so I want to talk about train horns quiet zones uh many of us grew up that uh sorry the reaction isn't stubbornness it's not retaliation for how the people are acting. It's fear of change because it's a learned safety behavior. Train horns exist for one reason. They can't stop. Quiet zones can sound appealing, but they're expensive, require constant maintenance. Even then, human behavior doesn't magically change. People are still in still rush gates. They will still misjudge the speed, and accidents will still happen. Are we going to put as much time and money and education into retaching of this whole youth of Caldwell to now drive a specific way around these twin spots? because you guys, it was everywhere. If you're not from Caldwell, maybe not. And I don't know if a lot of you guys are current parents at this moment or if you're all maybe grandparents. I don't know because there's a difference between people that live in an area and visitors to an area. And as business owner, I prefer more about people getting to my business alive. So, I think we have to ask, is it for real public safety or convenience and com comfort? Are we concerned more about noise for hotel guests and business patrons or about the drivers and the pedestrians and families who cross the tracks every day? And what is the real benefit if removing the horns does not clearly there's no statistics that show any great change. The only change was in trespass um in the first few months and within the year the data they collected it really didn't change. It was like 2% that trespassing got worse. But still, we were taught like those people aren't going to teach their kids like to go rob a business because what they were taught probably in train education. But I'm not here to oppose progress. I'm here to that we uh respect the lessons that we were taught the hard way and the lives that were lost before they were even taught, which is why they had the horns in the first place. They didn't discredit them.

Horns aren't noise. For many of us, they're a symbol of safety. Is that Yeah, symbol of safety. Let's make sure the decision puts people first, not just comfort. and businesses and thank you for listening. Thank you so much. Does uh councelor register I just want to say that I'm trying very hard to become a grandparent and I don't want to put that on public record. So if my kids are watching this you Yes. that they will they will learn. You just manifested it. It's okay. All right. Any other questions from council? You get ready to teach some driver's training. Thank you very much for that. Uh Mr. John Wheats. He's my support system. Okay. You don't have to speak. We just um you can mark as your opposition. Correct.

Did you want to speak? No.

All right. Thank you. Um we just have we have a yes and two nos that had spoke briefly yesterday. Do we want to have them go and have them speak and we'll just finish up for the night? Yeah. I have some questions. All right. Um, see no objections. Uh, Mr. Bob Jenkins. Okay. Uh, Judy Worth. Yes, sir. Thank you for allowing me to come back. And we'll just we're going to Do you want to restrict it to two minutes or is three fine? Three. Okay. Go ahead. Thank you.

In 1883, Caldwell and the trains became one. Is it a surprise that the horns came with them? It It surprises me that you all think that they were quiet and why it is now that they're loud.

Hey, what are you thinking about? Hey, it's a little p little thing to ponder. Okay, you had 79,000 people here and every one of us are going to have to pay for it because city, state, federal does not make money. They take money. Okay? And those of us who say no are going to have to pay because of those that say yes and they win. So, and just a little bit about my daddy. My daddy was born in 1899. He he swam the swamps and cut railroad ties in Alabama and Louisiana. So I have got a little bit of a tie toward railroad too. Just so just because you did that last night. Well, anyways though, I just was wondering why is it such a surprise that the horns make noise? You built this building right here but beside the train. The courthouse is by the train. The sheriff's office is by the train. Okay, you guys act like it's a surprise and it's not. Anyway, that's all I have to say.

Uh, thank you for that. Hold on just a second. We'll refrain from clapping. Does any council have any questions? All right. Thank you. And has any more signers come in, which we're going to get to, Miss Roberts? Just a second. Okay. With that, um, our last speaker will be Nancy Roberts. I was going to comment on that, but thank you,

Mr. Mayor. Council, I do want to say as often as I have been here to complain, I appreciate the new council. I look forward to doing a really great job. Have nothing against you so far. [laughter] Okay. to start the conversation. I'm Nancy Roberts. I live at 823 Albany Street in Caldwell. It's the North Caldwell historic districts. I'm less than a quarter of a block from the train. The train does not bother me. I think these trying to cross the tracks could be a come a problem soon. So, parking, we cannot afford to lose any more parking. Been complaining about that for years. I go through town every day and there are things I want to do and oftentimes I leave because I cannot park anywhere and I want to know if the parking lot at uh 9th Avenue in Albany will be safe if this measure goes through because you'd have to close the east and west entries and exits to that. There is one entry exit on Albany Street. I don't know if it's far enough away from the track 60 foot. We can answer that after I finish. And the longtime North Enders are still telling me that they have been waiting decades for the things that they need. And those would be street uh lights, lighting, uh sidewalks, and um covered bus stops for their children so their children can be safe while waiting for the buses. And um they're always told, "Oh, later. Oh, later. We'll bring in business." and this new business will give us more money and then we'll do it. Well, it hasn't happened yet. And um they're still calling themselves Oldtown and Northtown, not garden center. And uh what's the city done with their money for these decades

where they need the work done? We need infrastructure done. We need our sewers fixed. We need everything expanded. Um, we need consistent rules and procedures for these meetings. Um, I and others have been cautioned to not address specific council members by name. And yet last night, council members addressed uh several specific commenters in this meeting, issuing long winded compliments about their contributions to this city. So, what about the others comments? other commenters who were not so recognized, are they just so much chopped meat? Uh are their comments not or are they less worthy? And so having avoided uh that in last night's meeting would have given probably enough time for everybody to speak by 8:00 because it was a lot of extra comment. It wasn't asking questions, a lot of it. And uh as I said, I appreciate the new council. Uh Fourth Street is going to be abandoned. Uh a block of Albany has been given to a local business, so we can't travel down Albany and get to Fifth Street anymore. And [snorts] um Fifth Avenue, uh we did that. Arthur was broken up for the plaza. And I love the plaza, but it's a simple fact. It is another street that doesn't go through town. And so we are getting very bound and we need to have and more parking um for the mobility challenged. We've covered that really well. I really appreciated tonight's added comments about um the new prices. Last night it was said it somebody said it would cost $400,000 for one pedestrian crossing. This evening said perhaps 40,000. Big

difference there when we could afford that. that there will be maintenance for all of this stuff. And if you want to look at what the maintenance has been done by the city so far, how many times did we replant Centennial? Because with trees, they wouldn't water and the trees they had to tear out even at the new parking lot. Um, maintenance is a is a problem in this town. So, those were my extra comments. Uh, thank you for that. Uh, questions from council. I just want to

councelor register. It's my understanding that the $400,000 pedestrian gates are different than the ones that we saw today. So maybe we can address that. The difference in what they look like. I I think the 400,000 or the more expensive ones, I should say, lock. Um I don't know, maybe you can address that. Um just real quick, do we have any more questions or do we want to move to some of that information um from Mr. Mills? Do we have any more questions for Miss Roberts? Not for Miss Roberts, but I do have a question for the engineer. Okay. Seeing none. Thank you. And did you think you might have an answer as to whether or not the uh parking lot at uh 9th in Albany and Kimble in Albany?

We're going to get to that right now. Um just to clarify some of that information. Thank you. No, thank you and appreciate the questions. And if you do have any additional questions, please send them in and we'll get answers for those. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments. Mr. Mills, would you like to come forth? Yes. Uh the uh parking lot north of the track, excuse [clears throat] me, need a drink of water or something. Parking lot north of the tracks um uh by Albany is not within the 60oot area of the gate arms. So the medians will not go up that far. They will still have their full driveway access. So, just to confirm for the question that was asked, we don't have to worry about that being affected the entrance and exit on that. That's correct. All right. Thank you. Did you hear that, Miss Roberts?

The uh just he clarified that that parking will be fine at the 9th in Albany. Sure. Thank you. Proceed. The the other question uh regarding the gates and the costs. Um it doesn't matter. We don't need it up anymore. Um, so, so the, um, if we go with, Pardon?

No, no, I don't think so. [clears throat] So, the the gates we talked about last night that were two to 300,000 per crossing were uh, electric automated gates that would come down just like the gates that go over the road, these would go down over the sidewalk area. Uh but the gates we're talking about as a as an option um tonight uh are just offset chain link fences that basically redirect and bring the the pedestrians attention to the to the crossing. Um and those are the ones that we're talking maybe in the 40,000 range for all the crossings combined.

Uh any additional questions from council? Uh, council council register. Oh, sorry. Just one other question that I was thinking of. In the other quiet zones that we've researched, are those also um freight train? I I lost the word. Um, or are they passenger train? I believe they're a combination of them. Uh the smaller towns like Lrand, Pendleton, uh they're much more freight trained because they're on the main east west. Uh the ones like uh Salem, Oregon that are going up the west coast, they're a combination where they have freight trains, but they also have passenger rail.

Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Sorry for that. Um any additional questions from council? Uh, sorry. Questions from council. Uh, would the Would you come forward, sir? See? Yeah. Correct. That's what you're asking for. Yes.

This will be from council council register. So, I just I I was listening to your testimony last night and then again today and I've had some questions and I'm probably going to have a hard time getting to the question because I'm not exactly sure what my question is. So, just bear with me. Um because I I'm struggling with this decision. I'm just going to be honest um with everybody and transparent um because I do see the value in progress. They see the value in commercial investment, the relief for the taxpayer. I think we're putting a lot of faith that the turning off the horns is this magic answer and that all of a sudden everything is going to change. So, I have concerns there, but more so um I have safety concerns that I can't seem to get out of my head. So, one thing that you talked about last night was proactive versus reactive while you're driving the train. that when you are um driving the train and you have to blow the horn because you know they don't have a quiet zone. It's just a very proactive thing where you're just automatically doing it. And then when you uh know that there's not a train horn and you have to stop that then it becomes a reactionary measure to if some you see something on the train track, a vehicle, a person or whatever. and that in that proactive state, you're just doing it over and over and over again. And I worked um in public safety for a very long time. I was a dispatcher um for decades. And I could do CPR instructions in my sleep, right? But the minute that something changed, the minute that something changed out of the pattern that we were consistently doing over and over again, you immediately within minutes had to pivot and react. And with that came human error. every

time we always there was always some mistake somewhere when we came out of the pattern that we were in. So I think what I'm curious about in your opinion is the human error part of this where we keep hearing that um conductors can blow the horn if they see something. It to me it feels safer if it's in a proactive way. if they're just automatically doing it as they go down the track, as they have to react. It's the human error part that I'm concerned about. So, you talked a little bit about what happens um while you're driving the train and all the things that you're looking at and all the things that you're doing and the computer system and the this and the that and whatever. How concerned are you about the distractions within your I don't know what you call it. It's not a cockpit, right? It's a

work environment. Your work environment, your area. How concerned are you about everything that's going on and the human error part of it if it's not if you're just not automatically blowing the horn?

Well, I'm very concerned. Um Caldwell has a lot of access to the tracks for pedestrians. That's that's to me is has been the biggest issue going through Caldwell. Um, and I feel very much like reactive uh use of the horn is going to always be not as good not as good as as doing it proactively. Um when I was working uh leaving Nampa on a train uh that was 50 60 miles an hour uh which we we'd be doing that by the time we get to Caldwell. Uh Caldwell was kind of a a tense place to go through. uh using the horn, that's not a big deal, but there's a lot to see. Uh there's a lot of potential activity. Um, as you're operating the train, part of the responsibility of the crew is to visually check the crossing uh, gates that they're operating correctly while you're doing everything else. Of course, watching for anybody going around the gates or through the gates or people walking on the adjacent track, which is very common. and then they decide they're gonna cut across. Uh [clears throat] had a lot of instances that kind of thing.

I think what I'm like kind of getting that there's a lot of multitasking just like there was going outside. And when you add another level, there's a lot going on inside and and and if I've got a a green light to go, uh I'm just going and I'm not having to adjust my anything much going through Caldwell. But if there's other traffic ahead of me, uh, or I'm going to be stopping ahead going into into the next sighting for traffic coming the other way, I'm going to get, uh, restricted. Not restricted, that's bad. I think I just have one. I'm gonna have to I'm going to have to slow down, right?

And and that there's things going on involved with that. And that's my main concern. So, one question for you. It's just a yes or no. um you're already doing all the multitasking in your area. You're already looking out. You're doing all that stuff. Does taking the train horns away then add another layer of multitasking to your job that is really I would say it does it adds Yes. Thank you. All right. Any other questions from council councelor Stoddock or councelor DMA? Any other questions? I just got some comments overall after everything's done. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Um, no more no more people that signed up. Uh, sorry. I'm It's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um, do you guys want to give it a few minutes or just go ahead and jump into comments? All right, let's move into council comments. Uh, councelor Stodd, I just want to correct some of the

Okay. relative to public meetings. There were some held uh with the public. Uh, I attended one at the library, I know, and there were several other ones uh that were held, too. So, I don't know where the idea came from. There were no public meetings held, not only with us, but with the public is what I'm saying. So that I have no idea where that came from. Uh relative to our government, I just want to remind everybody that I for one uh did not vote for the hotel after I got all the information on the parking leader uh meter. I voted against that. I voted for most of the uh projects that have been uh presented to us west of farmway because to me farmway was a line in the sand between egg and and development. So I don't you know I hate to have somebody put a blanket over all of us and say you you know your your your government is a ry and you vote for things you shouldn't vote for. Uh on this train issue relative to safety, I for one have had four different reports now on percentage of safety. Mr. Draco gave me one. The engineer that just spoke to me gave me one. Mr. Mills gave me one. And Mr. Brooks gave me one. And they're all different. So which one do you believe? See

and we depend on Mr. Mills to give us accurate information. Not saying the rest of you don't have accurate information, but all the numbers that were put up here last night, for instance, like I say, Mr. Tles is the fourth one I've seen relative to blowing the horn. Uh this lady over here talked about the fog and everything else. And it's my understanding that it's mandatory for any uh train engineer to blow a horn, no matter if he's in a quiet zone, if he's between uh train crossing or uh uh commercial vehicle crossings. Anytime he sees danger on a track, he has to blow that horn. That's mandatory. So, it's not just by quiet zones. It's wherever there's an issue. And if I'm wrong, correct me. Uh Um, let's just we'll just move forward with comments. Yeah, we'll go and wrap it up for the night, but we can

if you'd like to submit information by email, I'll forward it on the council. [clears throat]

And Mr. Traco, if you were here last night, you would you would have seen that uh much of the oppos opposition had a lot more minutes to speak and then vice versa. And you weren't here last night. The only time that the uh folks that were for the quiet zone had a little bit more than three minutes is because the council had questions of them. So again, if you were here last night, you would have you would have known that. The bottom line for me here is taxes. You know, we get a lot of complaint about taxes. We've got about 9,000 I mentioned this last night. I think we have about 9,000 projects that the uh city council has approved. Not just this council, but the one before. 85% of those are residential and only 15% of those are commercial. Now, where do you think the taxes come from?

Homeowners. Homeowners. And if we don't shore that percentage up where there's a lot more, not say not more, but the the commercial percentage of that and industrial is closer to that development of residential. Guess whose taxes are going to go up? homeowners taxes. I live in the Valley View School District. I've got three bonds right now. They're 25% of my tax [snorts] every year. And the more residential developments that we Okay. And it's up to each individual councilman here whether he likes or he doesn't like the development. Uh most of that's in the Valley View School District. And your taxes are going to continue to go up because we have overcrowding right now. And you think that's going to go down with more development? No, it's not. So, you know, we're we're stuck here between, at least I am. I'm speaking for myself. We're stuck between a a rock and a hard class here. Do do you prefer your taxes go up or would you like to have your taxes go down a little bit before we bring more commercial industrial business in here so they can share that burden of more streets, better sewers, better lighting, better stop signs, and all that stuff? That's a question you have to ask yourself

because if it's because if it's no then when the city comes back and says look we need a million dollar increase in our taxes because of the the maintaining the streets and everything. I hope none of you come up here and say complain about taxes because you know we have to get that ratio close together and by by doing this quiet zone uh there's supposed to be more commercial industrial coming in is what we've been told and that'll help our tax base out and I'm a tax guy. That's what I've ran on for the last three terms. I'm a taxpayer advocate. If it's good for the taxpayer it's good enough for me and to reduce our taxes. This city needs more commercial industrial development otherwise our taxes are going to continue to go up and I don't like to play taxes any more than anybody else and especially with the school bonds. So that's all I have. Thank you.

Thank you councelor Sodic. Um councelor register and just side note I know some people had raised their hands. Um you can always send in comments uh to comments at cityofall.org work and uh we'll take those and funnel them to council or other staff if we need to. So, please feel free to utilize that venue. That's why we created it and we can try and get your questions answered. There's just rules and process we follow up here uh instead of interjection. So,

so I wasn't really going to make any comments right now, but I think I want to um because I am struggling with exactly what councelor Stoddic just said because of the um help to the taxpayer. But what I struggle with is if the development that's going to be affected by the quiet zone is really going to make all that much of a difference to help the taxpayer because we do have other areas in the city for commercial development. And in looking at the Roger Brooks plan and I and I don't think anything is set in stone. I have not heard that it hasn't been adopted. Um, there is, if I remember correctly, and you can correct me on this or anybody, that there was a very large apartment building that was suggested to be put in very close to the tracks. And I'm wondering if that's a big part of this. But in addition to that, um, we've heard about the hotel um, on 21st and Mr. King was here not long uh at the last meeting and he was talking about the quiet zone a little bit and he said that again that commercial development knows how to mitigate the sound. Um he also said in that statement that he was in favor of the quiet zone with pedestrian gates. So, I appreciate the work that Bruce did today with finding the option of pedestrian gates, but I still am concerned that it might not be safe enough. Um, I'm going to tell you a little story because this is what's really bothering me. Um, we hear a lot about economic vitality and I agree with that. I wish there was I wish this was an easier decision to say all that there was some sort of guarantee that if we silence the horns and create any kind of safety issue at

all that we're promised all of this stuff is going to happen and it's going to make it Caldwell come out of the dark into the lightness. And I just I just don't know if that's that's the case. But when I was dispatching, um there were a this was when I or very early on in my career out of state um and there were a couple of kids that were playing on a railroad track and I don't know if the horn sounded or didn't sound, but they got hit by the by the um train and officers got there and couldn't do anything. And one of those officers came back into dispatch and we were sort of talking about it and I asked him,"Well, what did you do when you got there? What did you do?" And he said, 'The only thing that I could do was get on my knees and pray. That was all I could do. The kids were gone. They were sliced in half. There was nothing left of them. And so when I think about that and I think about that versus economic vitality, I have to wonder what is more important, taking that risk or increasing our commercial tax base along Indian Creek. And that's I'm having a really hard time with that. So, if we could wait for this plan, have the conversations with Roger Brooks, we don't even have an economic development director yet to guide us um from a city perspective. if we could pause for a minute because even though we have a lower bid that we're considering, I think that with the changes that we're making with the gates, with the conversations that we've had, maybe it's worth waiting, deciding if we're going to adopt the project, how we're going to pay for that, are we going to have to create a URA, who are we going to hire to execute the project, how much is that going to cost, and Then at that point, we can

send the bids out again with all the updated stuff that we've come up with with Roger, with our economic development director, within conversations with the community, and then make a decision instead of rushing it through because in my opinion, I feel that the former mayor put this out for bid before he left office to tie the hands of this council. And I I want to be respectful, but that's what it feels like to me. And I don't want to be rushed into making a decision that could cost even one life before we decide if we're even adopting the plan. And that's that's it.

All right. Anything else from council? All right. Um with that, uh thank you. We've had two nights of comments. We've also had a lot of comments submitted online. Uh there was a lot that were sent in by Mel and we thank each and every one of you that participated. This is one thing I truly believe in is particip participation in governance. So thank you no matter your vantage point. Uh if you're for against or neutral uh I do truly appreciate it. Um we'll have a conversation I would imagine as a council on what uh comes up next with that. There's a lot of good information. appreciate council comments. Um, tonight this is not any decision being made. Currently do not have it scheduled to be on the agenda, but we will have a conversation later. And with that, tonight's workshop is over. Thank you for coming out.