Planning and Zoning - Regular Meeting

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great good evening I'm going to gble to order this is the Morganton Planning and Zoning commission this is our February 13th meeting uh first thing we're going to do this evening is take a look at old business um if you can take a look at your agendas for the me folks on the on the commission um you'll note we approval of our previous minutes if you had a chance to review those um and then item two is review of city council actions since last meeting uh they met on September 9th 20224 uh and you have to vote oh I have to vote on each one first okay very good all right does anyone have any questions or notes about the meaning minutes from August none okay do I have a motion to adopt those move I have a motion uh a second a second great anyone in opposition to those all in favor I I I excellent approved all right thank you on to the second item um second item for old business is review of the city Council action since last meeting uh the council met on September 9th 2024 uh Miss Miss stated city council approved the following items public hearing to consider adopting the imagin 2040 Land Development plan so they did adopt unanimously the um mag 2040 comprehensive plan and we thank you all again very much for all of your commitment over the 18month development process of that plan we have been um utilizing it as you will see in our agenda tonight and um we have gotten some positive feedback about that as well so thank you any comments or questions about that great I don't have a motion to approve that um no motion okay very good okay very good excellent um okay our next thing we're just going to review is our disclosure of Interest so I'm just going to read that out loud uh any member of the commission who may have a

conflict of interest or a possible conflict of interest regarding any item of business to be discussed at a commission meeting should declare that conflict of interest to enable the commission to manage the conflict and resolve it in accordance with the code that's stated there um this evening we have just one item of new business is anyone have anything they need to share about that very good okay moving right along um I just did want to welcome we have two new members that are on the commission this evening so we welcome back Lou who was our previous member many moons ago um recently retired from the city and is now joining us uh again so we're very pleased to have his experience pleased to be here very good uh and we also are welcoming Greg Smith who's uh here for his first meeting so thank you guys for your service to this commission and being involved look forward to it excellent thank you guys all right um so our first new business is item one uh consideration of an application oh I'm sorry is that correct M okay good consideration of an application submitted by oh actually no I didn't do the appearances moment to do that pardon me great okay before we get into new business uh there's an agenda item we have reserved for any citizen an opportunity to beer before the commission if there's anything uh they'd like to speak out that's not going to be covered this evening previously planned you have a moment to do that anyone everyone's all set in which case we'll move on to the business of the evening very good uh consideration of an application submitted by Timothy L Norman to rezone the property listed at zero Ula Street the property is currently zoned low intensity District mobile home overlay and the application is to rezone to medium intensity District so I'm going to turn over to Wendy to share with us about this item

okay so Chad if you can bring this up on the screen the property is located here um off of Kirky Drive um if I'm I'm going to use the little arrow if you guys can see that to kind of Orient you a little bit because it's the map got really busy with the aerial photos underneath and the hatching this area here is the Burke County School bus garage um this area here is the site of where they are currently constructing the Animal Services Center and then a little further down is the Burke County 911 Center um Vulcan is across the street back in here across Kirk SE drive there is a developed residential neighborhood um on the western side of the property boundary that is in liid there is undeveloped land in mid immediately adjacent to the Eastern side of the property and then there is other land developed in zone CU for town homes and single family dwellings there in Henry's Glenn that joins the property kind of down to this corner and then other vacant land also in zone mid um just sort of to the Southwest here of the property the applicant is seeking to rezone this portion in liid that has a mobile home overlay to miid which is the Zone on the other side of the property and to remove the mobile home overlay from that property um so that is kind of the gist of of what they are asking with the application one item to note um about this particular property is the deed to the property hang on got to find it here um within the deed there is a

restriction that um there's two restrictions actually that and these restrictions I did not write this remain in effect for the lifetime of the last to die of the present residence of the homes on Dogwood Drive Plus 21 years and that would have been for us any when this deed was completed in find the date here 2015 yes um noting that that was on the deed before that so you would probably expect that that continues on to maybe future Deeds there um so these restrictions we're going to talk about apply for I don't know who's keeping a record of the last die of the people that live there but we'll figure it out point is it's not going to happen in anybody's lifetime that's here at the meeting today okay um the restricted property shall not be used any manner to give a right of Ingress in agess from smokerise Drive which is the portion that directly borders um sort of the Northwestern part of the property from Dogwood Drive from Brookie Street or from kiry Curtis Street and there shall be no roads parking lots or other improvements made are constructed on the restricted property except for landscaping which is acceptable to the property owners funding on the west of smoke would drive across the street from those and then the restricted property is a 30ft buffer strip adjoining that that last property on the bottom of Dogwood Drive and Smoke Rise drive so let's go back to the map here so this property along in here and this property here at the end of Dogwood Drive um so that the 30 ft along through there is where you can't build anything and is restricted and and all of that and then you can't have access from smoker eyes from Dogwood from Brookie or over here

from Curtis Street how do you get there so great question this portion over here is actually a 40ft wide right of way out to Kirky drive that is already City RightWay owned there is no Road constructed in it but there is an if unfortunately Burke GIS is down today so I will attempt to show you this on our map but I have to turn off all the other layers so hang on just a second map layers let's turn off all the layers um well not all the layers hang on I need the parcels okay actually it's easier to see there that little strip there that doesn't have a color on it doesn't have a color on it because it's Road Reserve so it's not zoned for property so there is an a road Reserve that goes into and then this property here that's highlighted is the subject property so you would access it that way I do note that um Mr Norman owns this property as well as the properties inzone mid to the east of the property so there may be access opportunities over to there which actually extends to a little bit further um these properties here that border East Union street they're in the same property ownership clearly there's no Road or anything in there but um does potentially give a few more development opportunities than would be if in other ranges of different property ownership of that so um basically

they're asking to make this green color the same as the yellow color over here but to um remove that mobile home overlay let's turn all the other ones off y so to remove that mobile home overlay which does not have down in here as well um so access would be um a of interest for later they said we'll address that they' address that at the time of development as to what that would be I do note both Kirky and since I mentioned East Union are both um North Carolina DOT roads and any type of access onto there would be subject to them though we would expect both of them to have capacity for what ever type of development might be allowed there that is in that mid Zone um they have access to our public water system they have access to sewer there's actually a sewer line running roughly along this Creek line through here um from Brookside there so and would have access to um City Electric that is just being hooked up to the Animal Services Center that is going to there at the moment um in your packet there is permitted uses comparison um going from Li to M allows by right for a compliant application any of the uses in zone mid and if there is anything that's in liid that's not permitted in mid which I'm not sure that there is there should be a couple of random ones there that well I don't know if there's anything permitted in liid that you couldn't also do in mid

livestock yes sorry the very first ones with the um that's as a principal use or a green a nursery itself um so you can do any of those things um while you're while the applicant which I believe Alan is representing tonight May um you can ask the applicant what they intend to do with the site if anything but that is actually not necessarily relevant to your decision because they could do any of the we just like to emphasize that they could do any of those things um if you give them uh the power to do that you would need to judge the likelihood of for example somebody wanting to develop I don't know I'm going pick one here um a home pawn shop in the middle of that place you know does that sound like that would be probably a a use for that site um there are also then in the next um table to the comparison of the densities their base density is the same um of those if they if the development were to utilize performance standard points they would be able to have a little bit more density in the mid than in the liid so from six dwelling units per acre to 10 dwelling units per acre however to earn that much density you have to earn more performance standard points which the um CL um understanding that is you have to give us more nice things so you have to give us more Landscaping um you have to give us more infastructure points with um sidewalks and decorative Street lighting or evay Chargers what whatever the selection of that is and um more building design elements on there um then you would have to otherwise so typically for example if a house was built on there um I wouldn't be able to tell you under state law what that house

looks like um but if they um were to choose to develop it with utilizing performance standard points there's a series of items they'd have to meet for design of that house that are generally recognized as positive and um well-developed um design features above and beyond what would be required for um just normal development there um so and of course the same thing for non-residential density if they wanted to develop um an important thing to note for both liid and mid is that if they develop non-residential things in that District then they already have to do those performance standard things with the nicer um building design elements in it than would be typically required otherwise um the comprehensive plan that we've talked about a couple of times tonight so the area we're talking about this Loop here is the end of the of the drive on Henry's Glenn and then this little tiny Road right here is that access out to kirsy so the property is sitting in here and that is in the um mixed density mixed density residential neighborhood which is the highest density of um neighborhood development in there residential type development so it allows for smaller neighborhood scale type commercial uses which is similar to the mid Zone which would cap a residential use sorry forgive me a retail use at 3,000 square fet um so not large scale type development we're not looking at a Walmart or even like a regular siiz Dollar General type thing in there it would be smaller stpe resale if they were be to be able to develop that that's still kind of the expectation for that mixed density residential neighborhood if there was any um non-residential development but in residential development we would be

expected this entire area in here to be able to go to smaller lot sizes to develop whether it's um town home hes or condos or smaller lot single family residential development or even larger lot single family development would still be allowed um in there so a whole range of those uses so would be consistent both with um what they're proposing to change into to the mid and also to what anyone in the surrounding area um would be able to um ask for if they were to be asking to rezone as well on those pieces um and yeah um they are going to keep the airport Hort safety overlay there is not proposing to make any changes to that nor to the Watershed protection overlay as part of this so it would still be consistent with the um current um zoning in those two places are there any questions anything that I've may not been clear on or that you have a have you heard from any of the neighbors of the resal of neighbors here um I I I have spoken to one neighbor and um explain and I know Jackie has spoken to one and explain the things that we've talked about here about those restrictions and things so um after you we have questions for me and then after I think Allan gets a chance to speak here representing the land owner then they'll be able to to speak to us as well but we have had a couple of calls as is typical with any rezoning ordinance when people see the signs or get the notice and have an opport opportunity to explain um the application to them but would welcome any questions that they have here that um haven't been addressed otherwise well can I ask uh under the current zoning classification what is the just the sheer number density wise at that at

that zoning classification then we jump up to M what's the maximum total number so this is 28 point something acre 20 acres sorry 20.6 Acres So currently they would be able just under base zoning to do 41 units of residential development under um I'm going to drop the point six and say under the max the performance standard zoning um 6 times 20 so um whatever could be that is thank you it's been a long week people and the difference in the maximum for the other would be 200 um now um if I can show you one more thing on this map here if we can go back to the um's see this is the Contours on the site so if you guys are familiar with ele uh elevation Contours the closer lines are together the steeper it is um so there is quite a bit of slope on on some portions of this um that may dictate development um that is May perhaps a little bit different to um some of the other uh surrounding neighborhood that um would need to be taken into account regardless of what is developed on the site it's also the creek and there is that line between the two properties is a creek um Basin down there there are um in the Watershed ordinance 100 foot buffers required from the creek um there are some limiting Provisions where you can potentially ask to construct um some retaining items and things in that

buffer but ideally but any type of actual development would need to be 100 ft off that Creek 30 ft off of yeah Smoke Rise it's it's constraining what you can do on the site as those restrictions do on any site throughout the city and those that overlay will remain uh yes all of those those details would would still be there with the Watershed retention of the Watershed protection ordinance um Watershed protection ordinance overlay on the site so yes and and with the density changes going up a little bit do you anticipate any kind of Transportation issue I do not because Kirky drive is such a large Road and has so much capacity at the moment already that we just don't touch on a a typical basis um that I would not hesitate to say that that road could not handle 10,000 more cars a day and not be or probably very likely more and not be an issue there as far as what do may require if there were 300 homes on this parcel not 300 we say you couldn't do 300 200 at the the intersection there with Cosby Cory Road would be a matter for do um but that is also I think one of the advantages at the moment where um while as a planner you may typically want it to connect to these other streets um to be able to disperse that traffic um as we've heard that that is a deed restriction at the moment so presumably you would need everybody along Dogwood and smok R and all those people that we have to wait to die um to agree to get out of this otherwise right um to agree to release them from that Clause um but that you also potentially if it was developed as a whole um have well even it wasn't developed as a whole you could get over

to potentially Brookside if a road was connected through there and um like I said over to East Union there is um some options for for that as well and both of those could also take extra capacity so great questions um and if if folks were to maximize the density through the performance Bas code code um that doesn't have to be evenly distributed across the property it's just across how does that there's not a rule about that per se that's correct in some terminology except they would need a minimum area for each house um realistically I mean I suppose what you're may be asking is could we do a whole bunch of Apartments down here and then like three or four acre lots back here yes as a subdivision as a whole like you could potentially could do that um um again I think there in this particular case there are probably some sight factors yeah that would would perhaps dictate that um I do point out that if they are doing individual loto Town Homes rather than condos or apartments on that you do have still have that 25 foot minimum lot width which we've been told recently is actually wide these days for a condo uh or sorry for a town home on there but it does dictate a certain decent Siz lot that they would need for that type of development um there and if it was detached homes then they've got that 50 foot minimum got it okay um for those anytime in our zoning ordinance that you go 50 ft or below on your lot size you're required to have alley loaded um lots and not have your driveways off of that so you wouldn't get a development where you see all these homes and then you know every few feet there's driveways there you you would have homes facing the street with sidewalks and things there and then parking around

behind that um as well so okay great I've got a question what about traffic control at Kirky and Union so as I said that'd be a matter for do depending upon what was developed there um and and Dot would assess that at the time of development rather than at the time of resoning but our expectation at the moment is that that could be managed okay regardless of what that is could be managed with the existing one stop sign it would be if there were no if there were significant improvements to be made then that would be at the cost of the developer at the time of development right um so let's say we took this entire and I'm just I want to be very clear I'm not doing math at this time I'm completely making up numbers at the moment but say you took this entire undeveloped area including the area that Mr Norman doesn't own the area that's undeveloped in Henry's Glenn this area back here that the county owns and you developed 1 thousand homes on there you might need a stop light at that intersection but then the people developing that would be required to do that well as long as at that time but we don't have a stoplight at amher and Kirky either so right you know maybe not and to be clear there there's nothing there now there there's a rideway but there is no Street there on this side of Kirky drivey roads on the other side we'll look at that and how the how that would be one of the considerations at the time of development is how that roadway in its location um interacts with Cosby Road whether it's better to have them tee in whether it's better to offset them and maybe I mean the County's not using this little piece here there's some kind of a swap there I don't know that's something that dot will discuss at the time of development but um to be pretty clear any of those use it is our expectation and our professional advice as planners that any of those uses that

are listed there and any combination of development of them would be able to be addressed because you could always have an A signalized intersection at that location that should be able to handle any traffic if it was needed to do so I also want to be really clear for anybody in the public that may be watching or listening to this at home we are not saying there's going to be a signal at Cosby h Road and kirsy drive at this time or at any time in the nearby foreseeable future for that development um I think that there's very likely this could be developed for homes without additional controls there again looking at we don't have that at Amherst and Kirky right at the moment and that or at Amhurst and vinearden there's just stop signs right well my concern would be the excessive TR not excessive but the additional traffic addition traffic yes at at Union and because I go there all the time to see my daughter so I know the traffic situation there you know and that is could be ex by additional exactly and those would be things that um if do has a significant change in use right um and again just be clear I mentioned that only because the same owner owns all of these but um going out to to Union but if there is any significant um change in use and significant um traffic impact dot will require the again the developer to conduct a traffic impact assessment and that will include recommendations for improvements as a um local example um if you anyone's familiar with the new sheets development and and things up and the apartments that are going on near those um you'll notice that intersection has changed over the last couple of years and that's as a result of the traffic impact assessments that had to be completed for that project and that developer was responsible for cost um putting in we did have some very very minor amount of sidewalk and Luffy money

that we used for um the crosswalks on that um intersection but um they will have to do those studies and they you got to do what do tells you right okay which whether we all agree with it or not that good great questions about that can I ask a question um the it doesn't appear there's any manufactured homes in the obvious obviously is an empty parcel um is that just a sort of a leftover overlay or what was set of I'm not in I may have turn to Louis here may have more expertise about why the mobile home overlays were chosen in the locations that they were where your cursor is there's an enormous there is a mobile home park there but as I said you can currently develop mobile homes on Long Dogwood if you wanted to I know that when the 2015 zoning ordinance went in there were initially some mobile home restrictions as part of that zoning ordinance that were removed right before it was adopted and there was ongoing conversation over the course of a year and I think I can ask you I don't know who all else was on the zoning per we attempted to do a study and that was like going up against a hurricane that the owners uh the the manufactured home owners M wouldn't have a bit of what we were proposing at the time but maybe down the road so in 2016 we did add in some restrictions yeah um but not not as what we would have loved to have done try to summarize these and maybe Jackie can yell at me if I get these wrong um in a mobile home overlay you were allowed to put a it's actually manufactured sorry manufactured home overlay you were allowed to put a manufactured home which would be again colloquially think of as a single wide

trailer um manufactured homes have to be built after or pre 1994 74 90 no it's 90 something 90 there there's a rule about when they have to be built or not built and we are talking about the again what you think of as a single wide trailer um doublewide homes and manufactur uh modular homes can be built anywhere in the uh not not double wides double wides cannot be built anywhere in the city but modular homes can be built anywhere in the city and you would often be hardpressed to tell the difference on the ground between a modular home and a double wide but there are certain HUD roles that you have to build to to make it a modular home rather than a double wide got it on there so um if you can kind of picture those two different types of development the single wide trailer is what they are saying they would no longer be building on that site but modular homes could still be built there could still be built and and wood and other areas probably not Henry's Glenn because they have other restrictions but there there is a mobile home park there again well my cursor is not on the screen but just behind the 911 center that is there it's part of this application um involving any uh recombination of this property into the parcel that he already owned it is not at this time no okay so I was going to ask to but it would make them consistent with each other MH um except for the mobile home overlay that is currently remaining over the other properties and if I can pop Chad can you put my screen back up I'm going to try to turn some different layers off so I'm going to turn off the Contours and I'm actually

going to see if I can turn off the base district and turn this other one back on not that one one so all of that is mobile home overlay but when you get closer to East Union over here you do lose that overlay um along the east Union front edge and back in Brookside Lane and so forth and also up obviously where the um non-residential uses are so if again we're talking about the entirety of the parcels that Mr Norman owns some of them have a mobile home overl and some of them do not already great other question questions yeah the question that Judy asked whether the parcels have been joined or not what's the difference if they're all zoned the same what's the difference if they've been what was the term use Trey recom recombined if they've been recombined then instead of having one single 20 acre parcel and one 40 some acre parcel and then however much this one is seven or so they're just a one larger parcel is that does that have to be done none of it has to be done she was just wondering if it was going to be done I if it's going to be if it's going to be a large development that will incorporate multiple tracks it's typical to recombine it all into one parcel for development review and taxes and everything else you we we could review it all together if depending upon what any developer will be proposing they could leave them separate that um but if there are individual lots to be developed ultimately that's all going to be chopped back up into individual home lots or individual commercial development lots of some sort unless

you're going to have which is not allowed in miid a ginormous development like Walmart or something you you have very little use for a large parcel of that size all together unless you're looking at park space or you're looking at a really large development and again that really large development is not allowed in this zone so that's that's a a good point I think to make they're not allowed in the well it's not allowed in the existing zone or the proposed Zone that it's going to any other questions from the commission okay then I'm okay then I am gabbling for public comment so I'm going to open that up so there theant yeah if the applicant has a comment and would like to share the applicant representative thank you I guess if you could introduce yourself okay my name is Alan Curtis I am the broker that is representing Mr Norman uh in this application and he regrets that he's not able to be here but he is probably in Japan at this point so they had to leave a day early for some reason I don't know why uh so speak on his behalf um obviously he is a proponent of this uh this change and to to uh you know to bring his Parcels there together to make it more advantageous to Market it uh to a developer uh when developers look at Raw pieces of land they look at what the density could be and what they're able to to put there and get out of it and obviously uh increasing the density is the most one of the most important things for them because uh the cost of development and the more units that they are able to uh put within a parcel of land it means they're able to actually make it happen uh rather than uh moving on to somewhere else that they're not that that they uh since they can't make it happen so uh definitely a proponent of increasing the density there um to

match the other Parcels that Mr Norman owns and to make it more marketable any questions for me I don't have a question for him but I do have something that I forgot to say if you guys will allow me to do so when I mentioned the performance standard points and the items that you had to to do the the nice things to earn those points I mentioned landscaping and um uh infrastructure requirements and building design requirements what I failed to mention was the category for open space requirements that there are minimum open space requirements that you have to have um to develop um and you get more performance standard points that allows you to increase your density if you provide more open space for the site so so um if you had a six or seven lot development you're probably going to pay an inl fee to the city CU you're going to come out at like two or three grand or something for that um for Parcels of this size and if you were looking at residential development the amount of stuff that you have there um would be an expectation of open space that would be provided and again you get more points with the amount of open space that um is provided and there are certain requirements about usability of open space as well it's not your can just be all your leftover bits or your storm water drainage retention so the this the highest slope you know this thing has a high real high slope in that area there if that could that be considered open space um for a I'm going to refer you guys to section 4.5 of the zoning ordinance there's about 10 different options for open space in there and each one of them includes um requirements to meet that option so for example to be be a um a passive Recreation open space there's different requirements than if you're being an active Recreation open space

the difference in those two being generally in an active space you need room enough and width enough for a kid to kick a ball around all of those kind of spaces whereas passive might be more trails in wooded areas and things um there's a section for adopted Greenway Trails there's a section where yes you can use a limited amount of that for your storm water drainage features um but you may want a at certain points for that um playgrounds are are an option um as our again just wooded open space so there but there are specific requirements set in the zoning ordinance for whatever type you space you choose okay kind of those width requirements how it's able to be used and to make sure it is um somewhat usable for those types of space so um for me I mean to interrupt Allan but um as he talked about didn't see triggered that I had not mentioned that other performance standard requ requirement there anyway continue that's it unless you have questions yeah and do you uh as a broker do you have already active inquiries yes for development there yes we do good help to feel a need for this city hope we hope questions if you have any other questions thank you so much thank you apprciate it um yeah if there's any any other public questions or comments ments you're welcome to or or against or against yes or if you don't mind call me just name and address if you can just introduce yourself um my name is um Judith Ford I actually live on Dogwood great um I just have a question with I'm sorry what Jud for Ford Ford um in removing the mobile home overlay does that mean like trailers cannot yes ma'am okay um I guess my big concern I've I've lived there for almost 20 years now right where the area they're talking

about developing right we have so much nature out there like it's just this little pocket of a nature retreat in the middle of the city I mean I love the fact that I'm like a mile and a half from the center of the city but we have I mean we have Birds we have cranes we have Hawks we have foxes out there we have everything and if you overdevelop that area all of that is going to go away we have a pond behind our house that is naturally fed from the Kataba River we've had otters out there right and I'm just worried about the damage to that piece of nature out there you I mean I understand wanting to develop it and selling it but I just don't want to see it overdeveloped and have all that lost right there in the middle of town thank you yeah that's a good point um maybe could you speak a little bit to like the Watershed overlay and if there's some protections there or how that might that overlay um in where theone also I don't know that's an issue as well so okay great question let's turn both of those layers back on um so that I can make sure I'm speaking to the right um section so water shed flood I think there is only a very small minor section of the site that would be in the where' the water shed go um that would be in the flood damage prevention ordinance so if anything no it's all on the other side I think the difference for the flood damage prevention ordinance again we're talking about this parcel in here um I believe in the new updated flood maps that have not been yet advertised nor adopted by the state this tiny little bit of flood area might come across the street a little bit but that's what we consider the 0 um 2% um flood zone which there are no restrictions for in that there is that blue line stream that runs through the

and subject to the Watershed ordinance in the um ws4 paa Corridor overlay which is the um Lake Ro s WS 4pa um Corridor overlay section of the Watershed um you are limited to 24% development of 24% of the site with impervious area without introducing a storm water control measure on the site and then you are further restricted to not being able to go over 70% % um development of the entire site with impervious area so um things that impervious area are your house a paved Street a paved driveway gravel that is driven the pawn is actually considered a an impervious area under state of North Carolina rules because it gets compacted so much that is hard for the water to infiltrate there um but other natural areas if there were areas with big river rockstone and things that that you could go through there so there would be um for a total overall de if development so let's just take this parcel here if it's 20 acres you couldn't develop More than 70% of that um under the Watershed ordinance as it says today and if you developed more than 24% you'd have to put in specific storm water control measures to make sure that um the drainage was appropriately dealt with in that area so what was your comment on the 100 foot there is a 100 foot buffer required from the edge of a blue line stream under the Watershed ordinance this is a blue line stream yes it is the specific wording I'm going to see if I can remember where that is in the Ordinance do you guys pray for it here um

there's a see if I can my head about buffer area required yes a minimum 100 foot vegetated buffer is required for all development activities that exceed the low density option um otherwise you have a minimum 30% buffer if it's low density presumably development of this is going to be that high density no new development is allowed in the buffer except for water dependent structures and public proiv projects such as road crossing so if there would did build a bridge or a Greenway and their perces should minimize activity of direct water runoff surface water and maximize utility the utilization of storm water best management practices it does say desirable artificial stream bake or Shoreline stabilization is permitted um so it's protected 100 foot on either side of the street yes there would be if if there were desirable artificial stream back or Shoreline stabilization requested we would have to dig further yes and tongue twister into what that is to whether or not that is desirable um or be required so for example if you needed to build a retaining wall to keep your development there would that be suitable if you have this wall here to stabilize the land above it and below it um that's not to say you would have a house developed in that area but would you need to stabilize the bank somehow in that area if you did remove vegetation from uh around it in other areas um that is a question that would depend entirely upon what was proposed as to what was um required there I I do believe that if you wanted to if put anything else like say you did want to propose a house in there you'd need to go to board of adjustment to um exempt

yourself from this particular requirement but in part to to excuse me her question M you know we're protected basically around the stream for a 60 yard wide stretch um a uh 200 ft 66 yards you know two3 Wendy do building inspectors um note buffer violations when they go on construction sites or is that something that only the code enforcement officer responds to so for this particular type type of development that I would expect in here there's going to need to be access to get to it which means there's going to need to be some form of roadway or something developed probably before the the um there'll need to be roads water sewer electric and all of those kind of things put in um beforehand and then that would be our engineering department and you guys if it was a subdivision of other lots that included those New Roads because a subdivision with new road has to come before you and then has to go to City Council for that approval and then it would need to be developed before we would sign off on a final plat to get that subdivided so any of those kind of features that would come close to that area would be developed by us um and and I'm saying this because I don't know if there might be a road at the edge of that 100 foot buffer versus if there might be part of a person's house or lot that was there um The Next Step then for developing the thing on the lot would be to get a zoning permit for that thing I'm assuming that the per that the this already has permits and it's I just want to explain it for the the people here in the a TR to understand when there's a violation who Flags it okay well let me explain the process for these people because it depends on who it is where you're at in the process as to who how

you would get there so we would not approve a zoning permit that would allow something to be built in that buffer so that's where another layer of I guess review officers and who might catch what is being developed there and then if they got the zoning permit for it and then you go to the building permit you you'd need a building permit for the same place on the lot that is at the zoning permit um ideally they would not be close enough that you are worrying about it being too close in the buffer but then at that next step once it starts Construction yes it would primarily be the building inspectors that would say Hey you put this house in the place that you said you were going to put it on the zoning permit and on your building plans um as always though the code enforcement officer would step in if there was a complaint from anyone a neighbor a um a a concerned citizen that hey we think we've built something in there then the code enforcement officer would come in to look at are we too close to a boundary we did have a situation recently where a neighbor well recently a year or so ago where a neighbor was concerned about that and both our building code um uh building inspectors and our code enforcement officer went out to investigate was that house this was a question of whether the house was being built within the setback or not and they both work together on that along with the contractors and the surveyors um for the lots for those does that include true removal and not just building footprint the um the inspection removal and inside the buffer um during construction during construction um let me go back to that buffer area it requires a buffer I'm not 100% sure I need to dig more into the water set ordinance as to what is required in that buffer well doesn't doesn't the state require because of the disturbing greater than an acre of land you got to come in with a erosion control plan yes sir and I'll guarantee

you they Hawk that like a whatever so then if you're in violation of your erosion siment control plan that's something that DEQ would look at and but that's only for development of an acre or more correct which is this is but this any development on this site is probably like I I don't think somebody's going to buy this site and just develop one acre so they're going to develop the whole site and they'll need that erosion plan to do that once you have so if we go on down this pathway that everybody and everything has been developed and Bob has his house here and his houseing includes the portion of land that includes that 100 foot buffer and he goes in there and starts cutting stuff down and putting gazebos and you know accessory dwellings and all that kind of stuff in there illegally um that will be up to someone to report to the city because and the zoning and code enforcement officer would then go out and look at at that so again there's all these I guess different triggers of where a violation could potentially occur and different people that may be responsible at those times for catching that um we do not hire the co enforcement officer or task him or her with driving around the city trying to find violations just um to be clear for everybody and because a lot of these do occur in the rear of yard that you can't see from the street we're not allowed to go on your property without um certain permissions of that but we do respond um quite quickly to any um complaints that are filed and um address those yeah great great questions there yes any other comment yeah any other public comments or questions you please if you can just uh state your name and address and go for hi uh my name is Donnie palmgren p a l m g re n uh I live at 119 Dogwood Drive um and what I wanted to say is is

is to kind of restate that what we really love about that neighborhood is that it's it's it's very wooded um all the houses currently around Dogwood and smoke Drive I think all of them have at least an acre of land around them or more so there's a lot of woods and buffers around all of our houses and I I think it's fantastic that no Road's going to join up with Dogwood and Smoke Rise we appreciate that and I'm glad that we've got that 30 foot buffer zone but 30 feet is not much when 30 feet away there's there's an apartment complex you know I mean suddenly you've changed the whole character of the neighborhood when when you know here's your road and then 30 ft on the other side of it there's there's a big apartment complex right there um I would really appreciate keeping that low density buffer in place there so that way that big plot of land uh could still be developed and and it it needs to be because I know we're having a housing crisis we all know that but it it could be developed without changing the fundamental character of our street in our neighborhood you know we could still walk our dogs as we do every day up and down smoke rid you know and not have somebody's apartment building like right there you know it would be because said 30t is not that much when you've got that kind of density construction and residence just 30 feet away from you thanks thank you for your comment that may may I have a follow-up question I guess for Wendy have you calculated allowing for that 30 foot setback from the property line there all the way back to smoker o to wherever that goes and the 100 foot setback from the creek how wide an area is it that's actually I have not I will try to do that Burke GIS roughly I've not Burke GIS is down today so um I would like to

bring it up to be able to show you the exact um measurements here um but I will this gentl I will bring it up to show a couple of different um options there here so if we look here I hope you the average distance looks like it is let's move this one here okay yeah good it looks like to the creek from Smoke Rise is about 545 ft so if you had 130 ft off of that you've got about 400 ft wide there um uh to be able to develop um Lots uh in that area um at 10 dwelling units per acre um if you did T I'm going to get this wrong in the math I tell you guys it's been a long week um my point I was just trying to figure out how much um again how many density that was that you how many acres you would need to get a lot of development there my point is just that a a a very large portion of this acres is not developable at all correct and B whatever is there there still has to be access so you you've got to have a road which is going to take up another which would have to be a minimum width of 40 ft taking up another chunk of that space so if we took 40 ft off of each side of that um because you would be looking at Pro well you'd take another 60 ft off um to develop you'd have um 350 3 350 um would you want an apartment complex to stretch there or would you want something more like Town Homes to be there again a one large

building I'm going to say would be much more difficult to construct on that slope than individual homes or a connected set of town homes from structural building design reasons you don't typically have I mean you might have some large hotels somewhere hanging off the side of a mountain but from a practical developer getting a return on your money standpoint it's more likely to have individual homes or town homes I would think in that location than it would be to have um uh um apartment large the other factor in developing Apartments is that you need one owner to retain ownership of that and being willing to own it and to rent it um over time and to manage it which is sometimes a burden on an owner or developer versus being able to sell it to individual owners which you can do with um the streets will become the cities if it was developed with streets but then you could sell it to individual owners ABC both with town homes and with single family lots and then um the individual management of those pieces and those homes goes to individuals like developmental long dog dog wood Etc um versus having an apartment comp I guess what I'm saying is I think it's probably unlikely you get a large apartment block there um whether that looks very different to town homes or to um individual smaller lot homes I take um uh Mr palen's point that development there I think is is probably what we're talking about rather than the apartments but I do think having a structurally and then econom IC developmentally I'm looking atck here who does development and Eric that probably seems to be less likely options

that looks like the open space percentage it could be the open space percentage comb them and making an open space um again but that is why we list the possible uses for you right the um possible um developments and talk through these sides because again once it is that person's I suppose if they wanted to go build a Chick-fil-A in the middle of it they could but um I I do need to let you know that if a compliant application comes in I cannot refuse it if there was a non-compliant application come in depending upon what they're asking for it would either go to board of adjustment if there was some sort of variance while not being able to vary the things in the deed it would have to go to them and they'd have to prove a hardship to get that variance if it was an alternative design measure it would come back before you um for a recommendation to city council as to whether or not that's something their alternative and they would have to have an alternative not just an I don't want to do it um to whether or not that would be suitable and those would all be public meetings in which all of the um the the neighboring surrounding people would be back invited to and be able to comment then on more specific designs for that development of those is the contour map readily available yes it is online um there that the mapping system I'm using is the city of morgington zoning website so if you zoom to to the property and then you go to the little button at the top that looks like a stack of books is the layers and the elevation Contours um are you click the little eye if the eye is visible you can see them if the eye is not visible they go away um so it looks like we're this is a more detailed contour map because I'm zoomed in are those two foot two foot um no those are yeah those are no those are

two foot those are two foot whereas before we were looking at five or 10 foot Contours so no it's pretty steep it's fairly steep um however I do note that it is on Dogwood Dogwood is just as steep on there and and we have lots of lovely people here tonight that are from Dogwood that their lots are as Steep and and have those houses there but may give you an indication of of what's suitable now are you able to tr I think it would be remiss to not mention that they would be able to grade into train Contours with erosion and proper erosion settlement control proper stabilization proper um uned uh retaining whatever would be needed for that even anybody's been B the new Urgent Care on Burmont or the Dunkin Donuts there there's retaining walls as those are kind of bent long for those moving dirt's expensive moving dirt is expensive yes sir of those not to throwing doubt but I've been fiddling with the gis while we were talking here and it looks to me like there's nowhere near 500 ft between smoke I don't know I mean that was that was Google Maps I was trying to measure on I think oh here's a measuring tool here I'm coming up with 300 ft okay here's a measuring tool on ours that I've just done because again I don't usually use that I was going on the low point so yeah that looks more like 300 ft you're correct Lou which means I don't actually have the blue line you actually have only a very narrow developable path through there great catch just pointing that out that it's it can't be too much yes the density restrictions they pertain to the entire parcel not to the buildable portions of the parcel correct but that's why you got to recombine them um so if so they pertain to the

entire portions I would say that I don't I don't have an exclusion for what is buildable or not um but it would be overall so for example someone could take a large parcel and cluster development in a section of it in a flat section of it and then leave the the other portions of that um yes so so they that that is an option to to put and and any well I don't want to say any developer CU you always have people that might do crazy things but any developer that wants a good return on their money is going to develop the more developable parts and in fact I would go so far as to say that's probably why this parcel of 70 some Acres when you look at all the different Parcels there 70 80 100 acres when you look at all the parcels not just owned by Mr Norman but owned by the other surrounding property owners that are undeveloped are undeveloped because we developed a good land in morington first and now this is what's left um places with creeks places with hills on them are what's left city property that we own um and other places is not developed because they've got creeks and and steep slopes on it so people go for for the better flat land first and then and now we're getting to where there very few of those types of parcels left in morgington but we do have um opportunities with um these types of parcels though they are trickier to develop and would not get the same yield that a flat parcel of this wood yes thank you for that Lou I did not know that there was a measuring tool on this one but now everybody else does too you can go play around with it on all those pieces if you have one more comment if you do you mind just coming up to the podium to share your question or comment if you could just state your name and address thank you my name is Mark carile and I live at 118

Dogwood and I've only been been there for uh since June but uh like Donnie and Judy has mentioned um the nature the beautiful area and it's the other thing so what worries me is if we change the the zoning so that allows a whole different type of businesses um and if we're doing it for marketing purposes so that the property can be sold to a large larger development it opens up when I looked the lady that I talked to this week showed me a the the chart of the types of businesses between the two zonings and it opens up a lot of types of businesses that that would be you know besides the the congestion and the traffic and all of that but it would the noise as well I mean an outdoor event venue or a micro Brewery or all of this type of thing um I guess what worries me is changing that zoning we're we're it's wild wild west we're opening it to we don't know what we're opening it to I'll be a lot more comfortable when I can find out what we're doing but you I believe you mentioned that once we change the zoning when they come in and say hey we're going to put a a school or or whatever now to your point flattening the whole zoning thing and dropping a school down there may not make sense um but a Chick-fil-A or whatever so I'm just hoping we can preserve that and I just appreciate what yall doing for us thank you there is a I'm glad you mentioned that table of permitted uses again because um Chad if you can bring up my screen and I will show the table

of permitted uses um for a lot of these uses over here on the far right side of the screen there are these other sections of the zoning ordinance that provide limitations on those uses um and if we look at the office and service um uses 344 retail wholesale again just to be clear here on retail would have to be less than 3,000 ft Building inside fully closed but would also have to look at 345 um 346 and 347 for a lot of these and if I could just point you to some of the requirements um the first one being that they need to have direct access from streets that meet commercial standards and major or minor arterials the same with 346 for recreation venues major or minor arterials and um the Dogwood for example would be a residential street vinearden May classify as a collector Street May would be potentially a stretch um I would say kiry is definitely a major arterial so when if you were to have that type of use you would have to build either and none of these actually are coming up as collector streets um so a collector Street would have to be at least 60 to 100 ft wide a major or minor arterial is going to look like Kirky drive so to have one of those uses off of that street they would need to build another street that looks we'll say at least like Union Street um through the property to be able to access off of it so a develop so while it I'm not saying it could not happen a developer would have to put a heck of a lot of money and a heck of a lot of engineering into that type of street on those types of

Contours to make a lot of those other uses um viable so again I want to be clear to the people on the board that that is an option if they come to us to meet these requirements of the zoning ordinance but that is probably something that I should have pointed out earlier so I'm super glad that you um uh trigger me to to remind people of those standards um that if we're talking about a 40 foot wide residential street with carbon Gutter and a couple of sidewalks it looks very different to what a commercial standard Street to be a minor arterial would need to look like so uh again can happen depends on what the developer whom is willing to put in but if you did put a street in at that width um you're going to need first of all you're going to need to get land from Burke County to come out on to Kirky Drive um with that overlay there um and then you're going to need to um again if we're showing that little segment there you'd need to come out here and do some other major work there but then you would get you'd be able to do different stuff but you might compromise your amount of overall development that you could get and the financial realities of being able to build it um to be able to come off of that kind of street so essentially you'd end up with instead of residential type streets connecting over to Union you'd end up with a larger street through there to connect to both of those all of which dot would also have to agree to because they're connecting those two things so um as uh Jan pointed out I want to be clear these are all options that could happen what um I need to assess is the likelihood I guess of those happening and uh given those restriction and those that's why those restrictions are in the zoning ordinance is because we don't want a lot

of those noisy activities off of quieter residential type streets in there but again options if somebody's willing to put the money in great uh you doing one more yeah please of course or as many more as we have if you can say your name and address please Moren Austin i l 126 Dogwood Drive I am the person who it this affects immediately my land is right next door to the forest I agree with everything they've said I'm not going to repeat it I will say if you're going to take a look at this land I think you should go walk it it is an interesting property it's about flat and then it goes boom and it's like a it's like a trough for water from all different sides um I was very happy to hear that Dogwood would not be opened up into uh the new property um I will say I want to thank you for letting me talk because I did not call Jackie to let her know I was going to but I want to say this has been a master class in planning I've listened to you and uh a lot goes into it and I understand that but I really wish you would put on your Wellies and take a walk on that property before you consider resoning thank you thank you do we want to so from here we can take any more questions or anything for the board also noting that whatever decision you make tonight is a recommendation that goes to city council

for the final decision on whether or not it is rezoned and um if whatever recommendation is um we'll go to that next meeting and um all of the individuals here are also welcome to come to that city council meeting and make Con uh representation and comments at that meeting as the applicant will be invited and as well as anyone um uh on this board should you wish to do so noting that your recommendation for against numbers of voting Etc will be captured in the council report um that that will be presented at that meeting essentially kind of having this meeting over again um but um maybe in less detail if you guys have a um a recommended motion or reasons or details for that so um I guess before I get to that is there any additional public comments anyone else questions concerns okay so I'm going to I'm going to close the public comment section and then any more discussion on the commission questions great I will speak as a developer I know y'all have concerns out there but in my view if I'm looking at the property as a developer I'm just looking I'm I'm not necessarily looking to max out the density on that particular spot I'm looking at the whole thing in a hole and I would want the you know all the property to be zoned the same I mean I if I were a developer looking at that particular property that's what I would be looking at I don't think you know the that piece of property on the whole deal is not a you know it's not a a deal breaker but it would be more consistent to have it

all zoned one thing and then you take away the mobile homes and so that's a plus so you know that's that's my thought you know you could maybe even uh you know somebody might want to since it's a separate property somebody might want to develop the other property make a road into that and then put mobile homes in it I mean you got to look at you know when you're looking at just possibilities it could be any different possibilities but I see y'all your you know thinking where hey this is open you know nice open area I'd rather it stay Wilderness but you know chances are that's not going to happen and that's just my two cents worth whether it's reasoned or not yeah whether it's zoned or not any other comments or questions okay so the next thing I'm going to read the proposed motion and then we'll have a vote well we need sorry I'll be happy to do that um recommend to the city council support of the proposed rezone of the old old old Street uh with that a PIN number uh shown on the the Imagine 2040 comprehensive plan future land use map as mixed use residential land and it be zoned uh from low intensity district with MH as AHS and AP overlays to reone it to a Zone medium intensity district with the AHS and the wp

overl and the proposal considered reasonable for the following reasons the development of the site with mixed density residential uses fulfills the original expectations of the image or imagine 2040 comprehensive land use plan for this site the additional density available in M should the site be developed with housing could fulfill a significant Community need shortage preserving the AHS and WP overlays will ensure suitable development is environmentally friendly to the water system and does not obstruct the airspace for food Hills Regional Airport utility and traffic impacts from future development can be managed at the time of development in the form of a motion second got a second okay and then we'll put it to a vote one in favor I anyone opposed one opposed so it passes passes great okay so then we go to city council March third March 3D meeting at 600 p.m. in this room I I would have been very happy to have voted for this if this parcel had been recombined with the other one so we could have been assured that development um rights on this property could have moved to other more suitable developable areas but as it is now there's by right um quantity allowed on that

property that would impinge on some land that probably shouldn't be developed that's fair put that to the applicant great um and then it next have there any other items for discussion evening no okay then I will adjourn the meeting so ad for