City Council Meeting Agendas & Information - Special Meeting

And they're done. I don't know.

How we going down there? Oh my gosh, we're all beautiful.

Yeah. Yeah. You want to do an imitation? Have to do it. So good. The Lord blessed you today going out. San it's a pressure pump pressure $2,000

but it's no You can burn it. big mile because I didn't comment. um

I'm sorry. Legal is not going to be here. Legal is at another meeting. That's not my understanding. on the early. Okay. Ready to go.

Do we have signage? Good evening. We're gonna start our reading with our invocation and Councilman Hawkins. Heavenly Father, we thank you for the gift of this day. Thank you, Father, for the rain that you sent us this afternoon, the rain that you sent Saturday. Pray, Father, you continue to send it as we continue to recover from this drought. We pray, Father, for your wisdom, your discernment, counsel this evening, Father, as we look at this evening's agenda. Pray that we can guide and direct our city into a path for its future prosperity. you be with us and guide us in all things in Jesus name.

Amen. Amen. All right, we'll call this meeting 6:30 p.m. One, indivisibley andice for one state.

All right. Um so on tonight um we have regular agenda items 2A um hold a public hearing and consider a north city of Bulvari, Texas approving a special use permit at 4,400 US Highway 281 North Sweet One Spring Ranch, Texas 78070 permit the operation of theater stage live performance venue outside as an accessory use amending the zoning ordinance directing the amendment of the zoning map repealing conflicting ordinances and providing a severability clause and an effective date.

Uh page 14 or actually uh page 18 better. All right. So, mayor and council, uh, this is for a requested special use permit to allow um live music to be performed at the library cigar lounge, uh, which was previously approved, the lounge itself, by an SUP a few months ago. Uh, this is similar to the setup they have at Finding the Village. The music's intended to provide ambiance for the uh, patrons of the business. It's not like the goat where there might the streaming goat where there might be ticketed events and people coming in. Um and so the planning and zoning commission recommended approval and uh of the request and and gave them similar hours uh recommended Sunday 2 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. Monday to Thursday 11:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Friday and Saturday 11:00 a.m. 10:30 p.m. And uh the acting is here. Yes, there is any of you have any questions. So,

how did those hours match up with what we were similar? I believe they're the same uh as the ones in the village. Um

Danny, didn't Shakespeare have live music for a brief time? Not legally. I have a question. Yeah. My recollection is that at the time the first SVP was granted, they were asked specifically whether there was going to be live music and they said there was not. So, uh, curious to know, is this primarily because you've got a grand opening event or is this because I guess what I'm getting at, can we off we offer them instead a special event permit for their grand opening if that's the issue? I'm wondering what's changed since their initial request. Um I mean I'll

I don't know that that's not really how I remember it. I thought it was kind of like it was kind of mentioned and then we told at the time well that was something wanted to come back for I think it just wasn't at the time it wasn't but that's just how I

yes we were just trying to get a soft opening which we've been open about weeks and now that we're going to the grand opening we wanted to not something we want to do on a regular basis you know like every week and stuff like the other guys it's not what we want to do just a lot of planning work ours to be more of chilling environment instead of having a big party. Would you you would take any objections to the one time I would have it nice to be a little moreice. This backs up to a residential area, does it not?

Yes. Yes. The difference is there you look on that little thing has a stage right behind there, that rectangular thing, that's a warehouse building that blocks sound. The other thing, too, is we're facing towards 281. We're not facing the neighborhood at all. So the sound for them is going to be minimal compared to some other venues that maybe half and half would have to always planning out the follow right and the notice was sent to all residents in the area. Yeah. I don't think we got any negative response background. Yeah, I think it's a little different being on right not speakers.

I'm sorry.

Is that right? The third um uh was last year. Okay. So twine and this is the second. Yes. Do we have a separate ordinance regarding music? Not currently. I think it's all three special. Um, so outside amplification of sound is a special use permit use. It's not allowed by right, but it is on the use chart.

Probably a good idea. I'm just wondering through this. Okay. So, I'm just thinking about president. Um, any more comments? Any more questions? More comments?

Yeah. Uh, this So, Danny, this follows the property though too, right? Is this one of those? So, it follows the property, but it's limited in that um it has to be tied to one of the allowable uses in the zoning district. So, if the cigar bar closes and nothing else opens up, then the authorization for this ceases until another use that's allowed by right comes in. So, this can't ever become a primary use. Right. Okay. I just want to confirm that as well.

So, I got a question on this on this map. I guess the parking spaces is that parcel part of this property or Yes. So there's a space right behind that that is another parking that belongs to the permanent ranch. So that parking is all that there all the way down there's a road and parking all part of the owner's property. Okay. Permanent ranch uses it now but you guys can do get out. All right. Sounds good.

Yeah. I'm gonna make a motion to approve an ordinance city of Birdie, Texas. Approve the specialies permit at 44 US highway 21 sweet one street branch 780 submit operation theater stage live performance venue outside an accessory use amending zoning ordinance direct amendment of the map ordinances and in effect so the ordinance is drafted that way it is drafted So you can second. Yeah. All in favor?

I approved. Thank you all very much. Thank you. Good night. All right. 2B. Hold a public hearing and consider an ordinance establishing the zoning for approximately 0.201 201 miles land journalery located south and east of the Bell Oaks branch subdivision north of the Montyola subdivision and west of the Centennial Ridge subdivision adjacent to the city of Bertie Texas.

All right, mayor and council uh this um for those of you who were on council back then, we approved development agreement with this property back in January. This is an old non-anexation non-development track. Uh in order to allow for its development, they had to amend that agreement which provided that it will be developed as a 5acre plus uh subdivision. Uh that agreement was approved in January. The property was formally annexed in July and we're just going through the process. Uh now we're zoning it R1 5acre lots in accordance with that previous agreement. question.

It's just the next phase of the process more questions. Nobody signed. Yeah, that's not tomorrow. Joe, nobody signed. Okay, we have nobody. Okay, so um All right. So, everybody's good with good. Okay. Um got a motion for this. I'll make a motion. Okay.

All right. I make a motion two public hearing a zoning for approximately. between one square miles of land generally located about the east of Bellow subdivision north of the Maltto Motel subdivision and west of Centennial Ridge subdivision adjacent to the city of Mardie, Texas. I make a recommendation to approve that motion. Second.

All in favor say item 2C. Discussion of possible approval of an ordinance with city council of the city of Bulbertie, Texas, granting a special event permit to Bverie Music in the park for the use of the Bulverie Community Park on September 13th, October 4th, and October 25th, 2025, and a waiver or modification to chapter 16, section 16.01. And chapter 15, section 25.03.001, 001 speed 3502.008 and 15.03002 and 15.02000917 02000917 coive ordinances of the city of Albertie, Texas to wave food truck permit fees, wave personal liability, allow the use of vehicles to access the gazebo, wave established fees, and operate or use non-producing.

What is it? Use noise producing devices. I'm sorry. Excuse me. All right, questions. Well, I will be abstaining from item two for family man, right? We will come back again. All right. So, Mayor and Council, um I wasn't here at the last council meeting. It's my understanding that there was some concern about not having uh the event producers provide uh insurance. Um did we provide a copy of that? Uh quote is in the my understanding request that they provide a quote which you guys have now. I believe it's $178.

Okay. Not bad. Yeah. No, it's a good good deal. Yeah.

So, at the last uh couple sessions u we were asked as an organization BCPA already association to get a quote, see what the the cost was. Um, as you see, I shared that with the staff. I think you have a copy. Uh, it's it it's not a uh unreasonable amount for a million dollar coverage, but during the process of um getting all the information, the State Farm, they required an address and we gave them that address for the park. They said, "You can't use that because that's how we would hold meetings. The only other thing I could say is like my home address, right?" So, I gave him a home address and that's what it's based on. But that opens up the question of what kind of liability are we taking on personally and as an organization since this is a new arrangement.

I don't know how your insurance policy is work or how they fix that with you at State Farm, but we do know that subsequently through legal and request that we cannot put this event underneath our insurance. Correct. So are you doing this the music in the park or the park board or how are you doing? So BCPA community parks association is the umbrella 51c3. Okay. It was the only organization to start with. Correct.

Under that umbrella other organizations were created for specific purposes. One of the organizations is the garden and and then when we decided to have volunteers to put on these events, they decided to create another sub entity underneath the 50 umbrella of BCBA called Music of the Park. Okay. We have the checking accounts are linked and but we have our own we manage the own our own uh donations and then outflow of cash for uh you know paying the bands and so on. So it's all under BCPA. That's why I said you know the the quote would be created under the BCPA 501c3 entity. But I again this is the first time I've dealt with that because we've always thought we were under the city insurance. So I don't I I just I I need to do some more research that

I guess what it looks like is that music in the park right is the insured on here. So did you explain I mean did you work that out with them and tell them what it was? Yes. In fact they're one of our sponsors. They've been to our events. They know. I would suggest that you ask them what that liability because we're not at Yeah, exactly. I I I didn't expect I just wanted to say where we're at in the process. Okay. Yeah. So, we think it should cover, right? Yeah. Is this an annual premium or is this That's for That's an outstanding.

Yeah. Yeah. So what I I would suggest that you go back to State Farm and then they probably can answer that question. Yeah, we also have a law firm that's another sponsor. We ask I think though Danny, correct me if I'm right or wrong. We'll need a certificate of insurance signed over to certificate of additional insurance. Right. They get an insurance policy that lists the city of an additional insurance. Yeah. the um the the 51c3 and the parks. Um well,

yeah, they uh they were never covered by the city's insurance. The city was the only one that was ever covered by our insurance. Uh the purpose of this is to give us an additional policy to claim on before we have to hit ours if the city ever is helable for anything. But and maybe that was misunderstanding from the from previously, but the city's never provided any liability protection. Um, no, we never we never thought that. Okay, I just want to make sure that we just assume that something happened. It's just like if you with car insurance, if someone hits you, the preference is to hit their insurance first before you go to yours. And so we generally require people to provide us that extra layer of their own insurance. Exactly.

In case something comes on and that's what was waved uh previously. So I guess my thought is is I mean we don't have a problem with music. Okay. What we have an issue with is the insurance. So if we and like we said if we get the insurance worked out we can get that approved then we have no issue I don't think you know right backing this up right but we do need to get this fixed before that happens. Right. So what's So if I need to see some more time to figure out the Okay. the the personal exposure for the board members. Okay. So your first one is

what is the first one? The first one is September 13th. Yes. So I I I anticipate that we should be able to straighten that out. Do I have to come back in here and ask again or do you The ordinance has been revised to take out the exemption for that. So if you pass the ordinance, they still have to provide that before we can authorize them to use the park. So you can pass the ordinance, then if they don't provide it, give everything. Okay. But you would have to come. Okay. So subject to our receipt of a certificate of initial entry and it's already the draft say that. Okay. Okay. Um All right. Any questions from anybody? I think it's great work. Yeah, this is exactly

everybody's covered. Oh, wait. There was one question was um legal said that we needed to review the waiver.

No. Uh, I think there was a mistake or confusion that they didn't understand that we already had one, but our previous attorneys drafted. Okay. And they've already signed that we have that. So, good. You don't have to worry about that waiver. Then we're okay. Okay. Um, anybody else have a question? And I guess this is the one they accept over. All right. So, they'll just need to fill it out. Oh, I included the one that Mr. Grove. Oh, I haven't seen that one. I don't That's the one I reported to you earlier. Oh. Um, so we already have

we already have one. I think he thought either that we didn't or that the applicant had drafted that and it's the one the city's attorneys gave us previously that we Oh, I know what he was talking about. I remember he said that the one that we had the waiver instruction that we had, each person attending would have to sign it. So, he did one that was just Oh, that's fine. Yeah, it's just for music in the park. Music and park. Yeah, they don't have to do it. Takes place for the other one. Actually, I would think that State Farm would sign it because they're the insur. They're the insurer. No, you would sign that. The park would sign that. This isn't an ins. This isn't an insurance. Okay.

Okay. It's just the waiver. All right. Um Okay. Questions? Anybody? Good. So, I'm a little confused. Just to clarify, are we now asking them to sign the attorney provided whole harmless clause? Correct. In place of what the headline pre correct, which is the one that's in our packet. They'll sign this one and then they'll also produce the the certificate of insurance. Additional insurance. Correct.

Thank you. Thankbody. Okay. Right. Yes. I make a motion that we approve uh the ordinance uh waving or modifying chapter 15 and chapter 16 of the city ordinances as listed uh subject to receipt of the certificate of additional insurance and execution of the release and harmless agreements. I'll second.

All right. All in favor? I Moving on. 2D. Consider and take action on an interlocal agreement between the city of Bulbert and Kal Independent School District for the provision of law enforcement services. Yes. So, we

Yeah. So, we inserted exactly what the city attorney recommended that we insert and that's what we did. And coming back for you, we we did update the numbers to the current numbers because last time we didn't have those. So, it should be a current valid contract at this point. Glad to answer any questions if you have any questions. Yeah. As long as we're not discussion, we just needed a good contract. Anybody have any the contract's great? I mean, I ran through it. Everybody feel comfortable what they read? Yes. Okay.

No, they have they have not signed up on yet. Supposed to go I think this this Thursday, I think, if I'm not mistaken to the to the board to their board. I make a motion that we approve the division of law enforcement services as presented to council. Jason, all in favor?

Um, thank you. All right. So we are going to um going to

we're going to do executive session with legal counsel who's going to be calling it. So and we are discussing wait 38 pursuant to Texas government code uh 551.071 consultation with the attorney. The city council will meet in private consultation with the legal counsel to seek the advice of its attorneys about pending or contemplation litigation a settlement offer and on andor on a matter in which the duty of the attorney to the governmental body under the Texas disciplinary rules of professional conduct of the state bar of Texas conflicts with chapter 551 of the government codes with um number one is going to be amendments to chapter one of the city's code of ordinances and two the fro and werta versus the city of Burnie Access to Charles West CA number 524 CV 00708 OLG in the United States District Court Western District of Texas San Antonio Division

Call this meeting to order 7:30 p.m. 10:30 p.m. So we are number four action item after executive close session. We're going to consider and take possible actions on items discussed in the executive session. So item one amendments to chapter one of the city code of ordinance. Uh, I'll make a motion that we direct the city manager to add the amendments to chapter one of the city code of ordinances uh to the next the next schedule council meeting on September 9th for approving. A second.

A second. Um, all in favor? I.

All right. Um item two uh Franco Alerta versus City of Bulver, Texas and Charles West CA number five colon 24- CV- 000708-g in the United States District Court Western District of Texas San Antonio Division. Madam Mayor, I move that we approve the mediated settlement agreements with Tana and Maria Franco and authorize the mayor, city manager, or designate to take any other actions necessary to fulfill and complete the final settlement and authorize the mayor to execute all related settlement documents.

I'll second that. Okay. All in favor? I motion All right. Anything else from this part of our meeting is All right. 7:32.

All right. This is going to be the next one. Wait, you know, [Applause] dude. They're all looking at you.

So that so we're gonna go ahead and open this meeting to order the joint city council planning and zoning commission meeting workshop and it's at 7:32 p.m. Y'all can sit up here. So um all council members do a roll call. So state your name

Jason Francesca Wson Ted Hawkins

and then letting the voting state I'm gonna get up. You ready now? Okay. So, um, basically what we wanted to do is we wanted to call and do a a workshop with y'all. Short workshop. And, um, some of y'all are new. Some of y'all haven't been through this before. And so, council wanted to have the opportunity to work together for um, with council and answer questions for y'all. And also you can answer some questions for us and figure out how we're going to work a little bit better um and making more of a you know better way of us working together from one week to the other. Well, that would be two weeks but okay. All right.

And also if you have any questions about your role or anything like that, city managers and all this help. Okay. All right. So, who wants to open? I'm gonna let y'all open. Ted, you have your list. Ted was on planning and I was

first wants to go first. I don't really have a list, but one of the things that I frequently noticed when I was uh chair of planning and zoning is that there were some significant discrepies discrepancies between decisions that we reached in planning and zoning and decisions that were reached in council. And I'm not sure if it's because we didn't understand the implications of some of the decisions that we made or the president for some of the decisions we made or other things like that. But I thought it might be one thing would be useful to try to get us a little bit more closely calibrated because many times I found that decisions made of planning and zoning put city council in a position of being that guys and that's not necessarily where we wanted council to be. coming from planning and zoning, I don't think it's your desire to make us look like bad guys when we are trying to interpret or um let's say take decisions that you have made about whatever and then bring those back into the city and how do we do it? It seems like we should be more likely to put one accord. We may have different you may have a take that goes a little bit this way or we may have a take that goes a little bit this way on council just because of different pieces of information that are available to us. But we don't want the position of making planning and zoning look like they're not quite up to it. And you don't want the position of putting city council in a position of like we have to be bad guys to do just interpret decisions that you make. So how we get more closely calibrated so that we're tracking equally, let's just say parallel. There's always going to be differences of of opinion and how we do things, but we do want to track parallel. I think I think and I think that's a a good goal is to track parallel and then we'll the space in the middle that's the space that we negotiate the difference between planning and zoning and the difference between city council. Those are just my

thoughts. Throw that out there. Okay. How how do how do we do that? I don't know. Um but I think that would be a goal. It's why we're here to work together, right? Franchesca.

Please call me Franchesca. Um, I'm maybe the least formal person, so truly Francesca is fine. Um, I'm new here. Um, and I've worked with some of you. Um, I think the goal for me, um, is for you to really do some work up front to vet these things before they get to us. Um the the comprehensive plan is something that really you guys are responsible for advising us on and how the things that are coming to the city align with the comprehensive plan. We're trying to cast a vision for the city moving forward. And I think it's important to take the requests that come before you into the larger context um as opposed to oneoff, right? How does it affect this one person? That's important. Yes. But also in the larger scope uh of how that's going to affect the city in the long term and that includes things like setting precedents. That includes things like um we just know that question just recently came up that involved uh drainage. You know, we can't drainage doesn't stop at the property line. There's a you know, it's a wider issue than just that property owner. And so for myself, um, and I know that part of it is because I'm still learning the road, it would be useful to know that you guys have asked the hard questions and that you've done the work to compare those requests to the larger vision. Um, that you've perhaps suggested that they put a pause on this and go back and work with staff to answer some additional questions, which is absolutely in your authority to do. And I do feel like maybe part of this disconnect is because we haven't had this conversation to say, hey, you know, you guys can you guys can

ask these questions. You guys can push back. You guys can suggest that they go do a little more work. Um so that when we get a recommendation from you, we can feel like it's been, you know, you've put it through its paces. You've really tested it to see uh where it lands in the in the larger context. Um, and I I think that that would help to close that gap maybe between what you guys are recommending and what the ultimate decide.

Yeah, I mean Francesca touched on a lot thinking of um, you know, just, you know, vetting, you know, stuff like that. I was at the last P&Z meeting. I to handle that the right way. Um, it's never a bad thing to get more information if it takes more time. you know, we're all in this together and u makes our job easier when it gets here to the dis with council. But um you know, just learnable sustainability, you know, comp plan it. It's hard line to walk between, you know, having people's property rights in mind and, you know, following our vision for the future of so I mean it's a tough job. and thank you all for taking this on. So,

so one of the things that I want to talk about was the majority of which you'll probably see is variances. I know when I was on planning building, that's what it was. Um, I know that when uh, Councilman Bulock was on city council, he made it a point of bringing up when people would bring variances before. Does this meet the four requirements in the subdivision code for an ordinance? And I don't know, you know, if everybody's aware of I don't know if everybody on this dies here is aware of what they are, but if we read them from a strict reading, I think very few of the ordinances that we grant could be. I mean, I it's I pull it up on the subdivision ordinance. So variances may be granted by the city council for non-procedural items provided the city council determines and of course it's interchangeable city council and TNZ are just in our steps just one one step behind us uh by the city council for non-procedural items provided the city council determines that undue hardship will result from strict compliance with the ordinance. A lot of times when a developer comes and they throw the variance book at us and I want this, this, this, this, and this. Are those all undue hardships? Are those just things that I save some money? You know that? And then it says, no variant shall be granted unless the city council makes affirmative findings as to all of the following. First one, there are special circumstances or conditions affecting the land involved such that strict application of the provisions of this ordinance would deprive the applicant of the reasonable use of the land. So that's the first thing.

What kind of special circumstances do we have when we have a sign variance that somebody wants or some you know any other you know what what is different about that piece of property that would make it so that a variance is something that needed to be granted. You know the variance is necessary for the preservation and enjoyment of the substantial property right of the applicant. That's the second one. Three, the granting the variance will not be detrimental to the public health, safety or welfare or injuries to other property in the area. Now, that's one of the big things we have when they come with drainage and that's what we talk about where you know it doesn't stop at the property line. This drainage is cumulative. What happens upstream? What is it going to do downstream? And I think we need to take that into consideration. And the last one, the granting of the variance will not have the effect of preventing the orderly subdivision of other land in the area in accordance with the provisions. But the thing is we have to make affirmative findings as to all, not just one. And I think if we follow what we have in place in ordinance, a lot of these variances be pretty easily dismissed. And that's just my my take on Alexander.

Yeah, I mean I think a lot of what y'all are hearing, you know, kind of resides in council and just make sure we're kind of on the same page being sitting yall see as well being on council now. I realize how important it is to take that feedback from you guys. You know, I look for it, right? So making sure that we kind of align in some ways like I think Ted said it best. you know, they could be if we're parallel, there's going to be some room in between and just kind of figuring that out between. But being that I've sat on both sides, you know, it's I being on this side like Councilman Hay said, it's, you know, I look forward to seeing what PZ's recommended, right? Because we want to we want to hear that recommendation. We want to know that you guys have vetted either the variance request or you know whatever um application you have in front of you that you guys have done that due diligence which most of y'all are doing. We're not here to criticize that. It's just to make sure we we that that you guys understand that as well how important it is and valuable it is to make sure that those efforts are always being done on those recommendations. just when you know we got agenda items that go till midnight you know it's like it's important to kind of have that that backbone that you guys have looked at it's appreciate you know one of the good things is a good thing tonight seeing everybody here so one of the things is making you know making all the meetings right you know obviously things happen like life happens and all of them can't be there but uh just making meetings a big deal and making sure that you guys have input and say in what you guys are voting on because it it makes the impact for me at least speak for everybody but it makes an impact for me when I read your recommendation or if I need to go back and look at what you guys are reviewing and what you guys have spoken about in the keyn

um and you know I take that into account when I'm reviewing the agenda items. So, um it it plays a big role and you know there's been there's been changes in the city. We've had a lot of city changes, a lot of uh council changes. So, there's been changes, right? So, I think it's a good good thing to have this meeting and you know, we like to hear your feedback, too, because we don't want you guys sitting on an island by yourself thinking that you know that you guys are doing what you think is right, but you may not know it is. So, you know, any kind of feedback like that's we're always I don't think there's anyone on this dice that would be open to having that discussion with any of y'all. So, um you know, just know that y'all guys play an important role and in helping shape this city and you know, that's why we have that confidence built in you guys to to uh be appointed and be in this position. So, we just um look forward to continuing to work with you guys. you guys, you know, have this, you know, we want to see this collaborative dialogue begins to be and make sure we kind of fill those gaps if we need to.

Yeah, we have faith in every one of you. Otherwise, you wouldn't be sitting because we have a bunch of and you're the ones that we said deserve these

I don't have a lot to add except just thank you for your volunteering time. I appreciate all your efforts. I know personally we all know this isn't something that we're paid to do or compensated for. It is a service to our community and y'all have the right stuff to occupy those positions and I trust and respect everything that y'all produce and need. Uh if I do have anything to add just say just remain objective in your conversations leverage resources being Danny Danny is a great resource and then he provides us feedback. I mean it's just you know looking at the agenda items recommend approval but you know if you can expound on some of the discussion and really steer our conversations and debate in a good direction. Um and if you have if you guys conclude in one direction we have to vote the other way. I mean that's a job that we occupy. I have no problem making someone comfortable with a decision that may be contrary to what they're expecting. But we're all doing our jobs here. Again, just thank you for taking the time out of your day and away from your family to do the job for for Boulder.

Welcome and thank you again. Um I appreciate all y'all and I've sat in meetings over the years and watch some of the meetings that are going on and um you know it's really hard to get presented with. Um, there was a I think one of the hardest items for Bindy and for us is when a developer shows up at the last minute says, "Oh, here's my my, you know, my

presentation on the little drive and here, plug it in." Y'all haven't had time to see that, right? Y'all had, you know, they come in, they change it. We have an engineer record that was in the last meeting. Nobody has it on any of our paperwork. You didn't have time to look at it. you're just hearing this guy um come up and do his presentation and that's that's tough, right? Because we get a lot of things last minute. Um but I think that together and working together and understanding, you know, what we're looking for as council has mentioned to you and where you are and how we can assist you or how the city can assist you to getting done what you may have concerns or questions about or not feel comfortable with either. And we just thought it was really good for us to come together and, you know, kind of talk it out, you know, what do you need for for your job to make your job easier where y'all are at now and um you know, and council of what they would like to see when things come to us, right? Um, I I think that if we're I I do a lot of homework prior to council um on on variouses and read and you know I'm studying and downloading stuff and working on all of the different items and um you know and I know y'all are too. So somewhere maybe you know we work together and figure out okay some of this information is coming to council. There's also that reason we decided to kind of push council two weeks to have a second meeting for planning and zoning items so that when y'all have y'all it gives us enough time to review what you're sending to us and then for us to be able to to look at what the decision is there and if we're missing any documentation that we can go and find that. But if y'all had the documentation prior to and it was making interest that saves you know some time too. But how can we help each other and make this better and and do a better job for what our vision is of our city? You know, we have an obligation to our city and

elected officials and we appointed you and because we trust you, we know y'all can do a great job here and we're very excited to have you. So, go ahead. We're here to listen to you.

Thank you for for setting this up and for, you know, allowing us to have dialogue. That was something at the last meeting that you know we talked about. We're like we all really want to talk about what's coming forward in our city and so I appreciate all of you for taking the time and and really sharing your thoughts. I mean we understand kind of when things come to our desk first and coming to you but a lot of us aren't, you know, there at city council meetings to to hear your dialogue and I appreciate I know Ted come to ours a ton of times and we appreciate always having him. So, I'm sure he was able to give some of our our feedback and the conversations that that we had as well. Um, I will say I'm a a little um not taking a bad way, like a little surprised like I personally didn't prepare anything for this.

We want it to be organic. So what I'm hearing around the main thing I'm hearing is and I'm trying to listen through what everyone is saying. I think a lot of the things that are coming forward to you guys, do you feel as though we could um you know deny a little bit more or hold things back a little bit more your time? Kind of what I'm hearing that I don't think it's deny. I don't tell you to do that. Okay.

And and I think what Councilman Hayes is just saying those are the the items to be able to prove and take those into consideration because that's what we're doing. We're taking all does does number one apply? Does number two apply? You know, maybe three doesn't apply. So, why would you know, we go to we don't even need to go to four because three didn't make it. Um, and you know, it's in our it's written in our in our documentation and it's very easy to follow. And I mean, that's what we're using. So, you know, y'all have the opportunity to use that, too. And and we're not saying, you know, by any means, you know, we're going to tell you which one's to do and which one's not. that that's y'all's prerogative, right? But um but I'll you know maybe we follow the wish that I could.

Absolutely. So I really think it's fine all the time.

Yeah. So, but what I look at is like in the past been okay got this. All right, I guess can't really tell Chase, you know, buy, you know, are we comparable to what we're approving for these huge people like Walmart. No, I get it% and so yeah, I just find garbage. Everybody needs one

and we started working on So it almost looks to me like okay here's another one on because there's really no ground to stand off just same thing for another person I was three months ago yeah Greg said it two meetings ago I think you said that every case is dead on the own that's right that really stuck with me because I was kind of getting caught in that It sounds reasonable. We'll just go. I've always seen really fewer degrees. I've been here like, "Yeah, they really need that science.

They need varants because of their the way building's positioned or something crazy. We're not going to get We're not caugh up in that. We've always done it this way. You did it for them. You did it." No. No. That's I'll stand on my head there and you'll watch me, but uh we will not be caught up in that. That's just because it's been done historically doesn't mean it's going to be done that way. Right. You got to use discretion.

And we're using we'll walk in a line. We're trying to, you know, sometimes we feel a little ambivalent because well, you know, like T say you're sitting there, you want to advise because you you have independent thoughts, independent minds, and y'all don't always go sometimes y'all know things we don't know. And so we try to advise, but we don't want to be hardcore about it. you know, we don't want to go uh we want we want to present a united front. We don't want to go in there and say, "Okay, you can't do that and be overruled by Steve Council." At the same time, we don't want to go in there and say, "Oh, we don't mind if you do that." And Steve Council knows we don't, you know, uh one of the things that we spent the most time discussing was the the goat, you know, was the sound organism, the goat. And there was a lot of conflicting information. There was and because a hot spot, you know, had county and speeding people involved and there's poor man that bought a house behind the goat during COVID. It was dead. Then all of a sudden, he's got his seveny old kid that can't go to bed at night because they're so loud. And you know, there's a lot of stuff there. And so we're trying to allow variables that you could discuss, but we don't want to be too open-ended. You know, we want to be able to present. You know, I don't mind saying no. I've seen everybody on this table say no. I don't like that. You know, Fred always good about saying, "Don't know why we want to give a variance. Why would you have rules if you're going to give a variance?" You know, uh, you know, James and Michelle, they are real adamant about the dark light and the water ordinance and the dark sky ordinances and stuff. And you know, Brad will drag them into the ground, pick them up on the drainage stuff when he comes in, you know, because that's his expertise. We have people that can discuss any of these things. You know, all of us have

our areas. What we don't want to do is we don't want to try to not give you an option. We're trying. I guess maybe we're being too open. Maybe we should be a little harder.

If I can speak to that, I'm sorry. I think as an advisory board, we're looking to you to advise us. At the end of the day, the decision is going to be this council to make, but we're asking you to think through all the ramifications and to tell us what you think the best path forward is for the council to make a decision based on the research and the thought that you've put into it. I want to mention too that there we're governed by local government code as well with regards to this and there are some very specific things um you know we can only pass zing regulations in accordance with a comprehensive plan um and those ordinances must be designed to do I'll just read them quickly lessen congestion in the streets secure safety from fire panic and other dangers promote health and the general welfare provide adequate light and air prevent the overcrowding of land, avoid undue concentration of population or facilitate the adequate provision of transportation, water, sewer, schools, parks and other public requirement. So, you know, these are these are not small things. This is the entire community depending on us ultimately, but we depend on you to advise us,

right, to do that deep digging to ask the questions. May I ask what that what that would look like coming forward, too? Because I I do feel like we do that. Could we be a little bit better? guest, but I do feel like we we do ask a lot of questions. We do a lot of research and we do provide an advisory, you know, statement, but is there something more that can come forward in your in your packet that city can provide to you that shows more of what we're advising? And really what has helped out a lot is Danny's interpretation of discussion and how it applies to ours. So maybe some, you know, focus comments to share with Danny or whoever is going to be at the next council meeting.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, you may want to consider doing like like the parks board or does something like that and have a planning and zoning update so that somebody is here at each council meeting. That's not something we require, but something that might help. And then, you know, kind of do a round robin. Okay. you know, James, you're going today. You know, you're you're there. We're gonna show you're there next time. And it's just you're there to go if we have any questions. What was P&Z? What what were y'all thinking on this issue? What brought you that? So somebody can go, "Oh, well, we honed in on the fact of X, Y, and Z." And then we can look at and go, "Oh, okay. I I I see what they were I see what they were doing." I almost see it as maybe if we by speaking to the variant requirements a little better, we can actually make their presentation to us better. If y'all have denied based upon these things here, that gives them time to then go, "Oh, well, well, maybe I need to fix these few things." And then when it comes to us, it gives their application a better better opportunity.

So that's one way to what's the difference between denying and paying because at the last meeting I could have just said no to the whole thing, but I felt like he needed the opportunity to come back a second time and, you know, flush out because, you know, I think it's that I think it's a flushing out. If you think, okay, we're on the cusp of this. If we had more information, it might change our code.

If you wanted these eight things and you're get it, but if he went back and and he talked to his people in Canada or wherever and they said, we really want this and so give them what they want. Yeah. I would like to give that opportunity. But you know, honestly, I think I'm your choice. The flooding downream is just horrific. Well, you want to postpone it. Yeah. You don't want to table it. It was the same. Yeah. Because you know, if they have better more information to clarify some of the things tableabling is has to if you table something has to be taken care of in the next 24 hours. So, you're going to postpone it. They changed.

That's if you want to not have to repost. Just table generally means it comes back at the next meeting table would be a recommendation post. It should say something to that and it should say postponed. Yeah, it should say postponed. Table is something you would table later in that meeting that could happen within the next 24 hours. It should be postponed to another meeting. to postpone postpone to another day. Yeah.

It's all really just opportunity to get more information to clarify. You know, if you have everything that you that you need, if they're not going to give you anything that's going to change like in that situation, hey, I need this, this, this, this. Well, then we just But you got new information at the last minute, that meeting, too, right? So, you didn't even have time to look at it. And you're listening to a presentation there. You should have time to look at that. Right. Y'all need to go back and study what he said. You didn't have documentation in front of you. It wasn't in your package. Yeah.

Right. I think uh that I had last time with that one in particular is that with the variance request a lot of the variance requests were open-ended and if there was any way that with city whenever they receive a variance request that it has to have some sort of actual qualifying information included with that variance request instead of we just need a cotton bill variance. It's you need a cut bill variant for five feet 10 feet. I think you can ask those questions with what we're saying. You have and we did ask those question and that is why we decided to to table or postpone because we didn't have that information and we didn't feel comfortable recommending either approval or denial because we didn't have that information and fairly to to Fred's point he um it would be really hard for him to get that information. I think that was like one of the conversations that we talked about because it is so early kind of in that process. Again, that's not that's not our problem, right? Um, but that was part of our conversation of, okay, well, when does he get that information? Can we have some of that now? Do we, you know, approve it to a certain point and then he finds out, okay, he's going to need another two feet, great. When we have to come back for another, you know, variance request. I think there's some sort of limitations within this variance request that we need to have that city can filter in the board when it comes to

So, can you recommendation to is that the staff function what I hear you saying? I how would you how could we help you make that happen? Really? So Danny, let me ask just question Danny. So I guess what they're asking is before it comes to to them to planning and zoning can if it's an open an openended variance request that they are asking their to be precisely what they're asking. Can we do that? Can we do that when it comes to like cut and fills?

So just the last one was an example. So within the PE request there was a variance for cut and fill. Um but he didn't say to what limit. So technically if we had approved that we could have cut 100 feet. Technically it's on variance so it doesn't follow the variance processes. Council could tighten ordinance. I think that would be fantastic. But um I'm sorry. Can you you expand on that for me, please? Sure. So a variance is when you come forward and ask for a waiver of right

land development district standalone ordinance and anything that's inside it is technically it own standalone ordinance. It's not a w. So we could specify that the PDD cannot be accompanied by variance requests. It can't authorize violation of other city. Interesting. I think that kind of defers defeats the purpose of a PDD, right? It might be more complicated. You would so they would need to apply for the PDD and the variance at the same time forward as

I knew this before because they haven't properly to get that information from the potential developer. He doesn't own the property and he's not going to invest the money engineering to get that information for us. So we have to operate these vague understandings until he can hone in on what does he need and at that point he's so far in may not make sense and that's the risk that a developer takes in the gravestone

and that's for customer service too which is paramount being what we do. Um, but we really can't have the situation where we just run them up with one. The last guy that came up with that that property, he presented a site plan that was approved in what 2017

and it had mixed multifamily commercial. We looked at that and I personally looked at that like, oh, I guess it's the plan for the site when in fact that site plan go out the window. It doesn't matter. And the player was asking for R3, R2 where I would have just stood there and said, "Well, one and we can kind of stop talking about this all together." And I'm wondering that if if that individual or people like him could get that kind of advice from the city just right off the bat, like, "Hey, you're you're headed in the wrong direction here and we kind of steer this." I think the city wants to see this And I'm wondering if that doesn't save him a ton of time and a really late night.

Exactly. And that's the other late at night. That's a front office. Um depending on how tight or that sets the bounds of how the applicant is. So we recently within the last year tied up plan development ordinance. Uh that's why we got all the information that we got this done versus in the past we might have got site plan.

And so if if yall want to tighten it up more, we can do that. If you feel like that still does not and we talking about accommodating a wide range of projects under that though some of them are massive like party ranch and some are sight specific that are really not that complex. Right? You know, but if you want staff to what am I trying to say here? Rebind me, then the ordinances that we're using to guide us the process have to give us the authority. Uh you're limited by state law to some degree also. Yeah,

that's something with respect with respect limited by state law with respect to guidance we can give them. Well, the shot clock we were talking about or something that um but well what we're going to do if they bring in something we're going to deny it if it doesn't comply with our till such time. So the variance could be approved outside of the shot clock time frame.

So but I think so I think to Fred's point it would be useful if when they when they enter because I can see the point right he's trying to decide if he's going to spend the money on the property before he spends the money on the property he's got to have some reasonable expectation is he going to be able to do some version of what it is he wants to do and I understand that. So if I'm understanding correctly, I think you're saying if they enter into that process, is there some mechanism on the city side where we can provide guidance to them to say, you know, you're asking for a variance. I mean, I don't know what that would look like. You guys might know best, but I think whatever you're saying before even gets to you, could there be some process? Like on a personal level, if this individual when he's applying, you look at the plat, you can say, "Okay, well, you understand that the city's overall plan is this and the city really wants to see more of R1 in this location. You're going to have a very hard time pushing through this mixed use bag you got here, while we're happy to help get in front of P&Z and talk to them, I don't know this like if you could be that because I basically would be speaking a lot of what you are talking bad individually and the younger people on your staff don't have your feet. So from what I understand is we're talking about giving more guidance before they come before the city

which is which is the idea which is more which traditionally traditionally a lot of that has been done by the mayor outside council meetings and PNZ meetings. The McCarti project like we're talking about used to be halfacre lots. He's now coming forth with oneacre lots and that didn't happen on a council meeting. Okay. So, I'm gonna be the bad guy and I am just gonna say the mayor does not have the authority to act or negotiate on behalf of the city. But you're talking about giving input. I understand. I understand that the responsibility of the mayor is not responsibility of the mayor. That was a that was a concoction of many years of the way it was done from it was general.

I'm not going to speak I'm not going to speak to that. I'm gonna say okay charge wait. One people one person talks time. Okay.

Don't over talk everybody. Okay. So, I'm understanding what y'all are asking for. And it and I guess maybe we're asking for the same thing, right? Um we'd like to see that by the time it gets to us, it's been studied and you have questions answered and all of those good things. Um you know, I'm just gonna let's just use Chase. Okay. So, they went through P& y'all their signs for Chase, right? and and whatever. I drive over there the night before to be counseling and they had already signs up and they're right and they're not and they're not retired compliance. That's where I'm going to go. Right? So, these are things that you know they came to us, oh yeah, we all approved it, right? So, we why not put that on there? Hey, we're approving this, but these are the problems that we have with it. Tell us what it is. then we know too because we may miss something. Oh, you know what? I zon caught this. There's little issue here. Maybe we need to go and look at this, right? Um or or let's post postpone it until we find out what that answer is, right? Um but I think that that's where we're trying to get to to where we're all working together. Y'all are sending your thoughts to us because we're going to read your thoughts and look at them. We're going to consider them. We do. So, give them all to us, right? and we're going to look at it and we're going to apply our thoughts and processes to it. And then we're going to make the right decision, you know, that is based upon what our vision is for our city and what our constituents really want out here, what, you know, we all want here. We all live here. And so that's more of what we're looking at and and where we would get and and it sounds like that's what y'all would like to get. You know, we have a great asset here. You know, we we Danny is full of information. Y'all can phone. You can call on, hey, hey, you know, this is coming. Let's ask questions. We do. We ask questions. Hey, can you help us with this? Um, I see it's coming up. What about this? What's the history on this?

Where was this, you know, 17 years ago? What was it? Um, do we have a plaque? Do we have a picture? Can we look at it? You know, get educated on it. Give us your thoughts. Then bring bring it to us and then we're going to make a decision up here based on that. We all agree. And if you're gonna send anything like that, email or anything, please have the city manager to so he stays up. Yeah. Keep loop. Message us all. We keep on seeing the same thing. Changing over, you know, right?

You guys don't have to continually look at these things. If you see something so wild and weird, you look at Dan, you're like, why are we even looking at your front office and say, hey, maybe not sail through. I mean to to the to an extent that's human you know what I mean you can't take position speak for us but at least what I tell people when they ask is this is what historically so I can say here's a plan that was presented and council rejected in 2020

here's a plan that was presented and rejected in 2021 for your information I'm not telling you it won't work an applic [Music] But I'm not confused, but I didn't know at with state law what type of conversation we could have. You know,

that's why we did this open. Exactly. So if there is, you know, email going back and forth. That's why I've never sent an email saying, "Hey, you know what's going on?" Because I didn't. Well, there is. They can email us. We can't start piggy backing off. That's that's just give us a nod. It's better to do a blank copy. Just do a BC. Yeah. You don't want to start a email and that way they can't just get reply because everybody else

like after our planning and zoning meetings if we gave you guys you know an email afterward just saying hey here are the main things that we talked about and that we did consider doing this. because I think your package just says we either recommended it or you didn't. I'd like to ask a question about that.

Wait a minute. I want to answer a question. But when we do this and you by law, everything else becomes an open record act, right? So if you don't put something in there that you don't want to be responsible for sharing later, we're all transparent on anything that gets there and what we discuss in our emails and everything else. But just letting you know because that's part when it does come back to council. Anything that comes in to us is open records, right? So, um you need to know that, right? Um and this is part of all this learning process, you know, how you send documentation and all that other good stuff. Um but you know, we we want to hear from you. We want to know what's going on. We shouldn't be two separate identities identities when we're working together for the same purpose, right? And we want to be able to do this. Um just information so that y'all know I've been meeting with CPS and and Texas Water Company and um you know Kalistd um you know everybody that I can meet with you know we need to know what our infrastructure I touch all the engineers we're talking um we want to know where our infrastructure is going to be and what have what where are we going to be in 10 years you know CPS right now we have a very infrastructure today. If the wind blew, we were off and on electricity out there, right? They have a plan to come out here and they're going to do some work with us now that we've talked about it. But y'all need to know that information too, right? Or or that how wide is the fire truck, the new fire truck that we got when somebody's asking for a variance of 20 foot less on the street and now if there's two cars on the street, the fire truck can't get up and down the road, you know, and you're going to improve that variance. We all need to know that, you know, because all of us are making that decision as much as you are. And these are things that we're going to have to work to and work through some some building relationships with these different entities and have them come to

our city and everybody be a part of that meeting and hear what's going on and what we're up against and what we're looking at. You know, we're going to battery power down here. CPS may not be able to give us electricity. I've been informed in five years. So, we're going to go to battery battery power. They brought up everything. They're closing their plant at Calary Lake. They're closing three different, you know, TPS units out there. They're doing everything they can to supply it. But we're one of the 31 so, you know, cities that they that they serve. And, you know, we got to know that. We got to know what we're going to do. We're going to add a thousand homes up here. Well, wait a minute. Did somebody get some information from CBS to figure out how is it going to affect the rest of our city? How what are we going to do? You know, what about texttop? We'd have somebody out there telling us, "Oh yeah, I was plucked to text and um this is how my room's going to come out." Well, guess what? Your plan isn't even going to be executed for seven years. And no, you have not talked to text. I already know because I spoke to the engineer, right? So, we're up against this and we all need to have this information and we're going to have to get to a place to where we're sharing that. It was great when this was a small town and we didn't need all that. We're not a small town anymore. We're a big city and it's just gonna get big. I mean, we have San Antonio moving this way. We have, you know, it's coming this way all four ways. It's coming at us and we've got to be in touch with these people. We need to know, we need to study, you know, what's coming in front of us because these people are coming in with everything. Oh, well, that's the way they do it here and that's the way they do it there or that's how you did it 10 years ago. Well, guess what? We're not who we were 10 years ago, right? and we're working towards a future that we all want to keep here in this town, right? And that's what we've all been elected upon. Um, you know, people are worried about the infrastructure. You know, what about people aren't paying attention. A road may have cost, let's say, we had to repair 1863, you know,

from 281 down here to downtown Bertie. That may have cost us $2 million three years ago. Today, it's $10 million. And guess what? Now, we have 18ers going up and down that road. So, how much or how much time is that going to last? It's not going to last 10 years anymore. It may only be three years and now we're going to be pumping in $10 million into it. We need to take all those things into consideration. And if we're not working together and talking and hey, you know, this is before I'm a little bit worried about do you have any information on it? Where can I look for? I may not, but I may say, okay, wait, let me make a phone call. let me find out, you know, or or Danny can or, you know, because we're all sharing these phone numbers and and contacts. But that's where we're looking, right? And that's why I think why all of us are here volunteering our time, you know, and working towards a future that we all want to leave for our grandkids or whoever our children or anybody that's left here for, you know, 15 or 20 years. So, if I can just interject, I was trying to read through the local government code with respect to uh planning and zoning commission, and I absolutely could be wrong about this. Um, so I'm going to preface this by saying that, but my understanding is that the final recommendation from the planning and zoning commission must come from the chair in writing signed by the chair. So, that's something I'd like for us to look into. But to the mayor's point, I think it would be useful if you're getting staff input, you know, as these things come before you, if your recommendation comes from you on behalf of the committee with some discussion about how you arrived at your decision. So that what we're reading is not just yay your name, but the thought process that went into uh how you did that. I know that that's extra work for you guys, but then you've

got to write something. But one thing that we might consider is requesting from the planning and zoning commission is a written report on the things that they put forward to us as part of the package that staff puts together uh for us. And that might give us some insight um of the kind that you're talking about. I'm comfortable with that personally. Um, that was one of the main thoughts and ideas as we've been talking that I think be helpful. Um, I'm willing to do that.

Um, I think there's an issue with anything that commission has voted on and and I know that the local government talks about reports from the commission, but I've never heard it interpreted that that had to be assigned document. Well, maybe that's something for us to

that's going to complicate our process. Um because if we have to hold the commission meeting, hold the deliberation, vote on something and then wait for the commission to produce report then u when are we going to get that report and how are we going to ensure that commission uh all believes that the rest of the commissioners believe that that's actually accurate and have all of that ready by we usually post the next morning for council. So, um, the that the commission absolutely can in I can't think of an example, but I'm sure somebody does that. Uh, but they probably have more time.

I think the best way to do is just show up to PNZ meeting or watch the live broadcast. That's what there's a there's a an potential issue with that. We just completed newly elected um official training. So, we're experts on this uh that our mere presence at a meeting could invalidate their ability to be independent uh as independent adviserss. And so, that's the reason I don't go to meetings because, you know, not that I'm not interested. Um and so I don't know if he, you know, listen to the recording after the fact. I don't know if that's sufficient insight. I I don't I don't know. Just one or two of you or more of

I think the point is they want you guys to be able to be independent. you know, if we're sitting there staring at you because it's really a nice glove. I'd like it if you came right in front of me, but but you know, it's a great asset to have, you know, somebody like or Joe or Ted there, Dave Bullet, man, when he's sitting in the back of the room. It's great to have him. He can stand up and go, well, this is what we were talking about at that time. And I really thought it was a great idea when when I guess it was the mayor that came up with that one. y'all came up with the idea of having one of us come to the city council meetings so we could clarify and I believe Ashley does most anyway but

maybe but you know that that's a that's a a really good thought as to you know because sometimes and we've seen it sometimes the the client the citizen will stand up and say something that is completely off the wall I've seen him do it in front of Danny you know Danny like no no that's not what I said and that's not what happened, you know, and so it's nice sometimes to have one of our people at one of your meetings so we can

sure flesh out that. I mean, I think if something are up to I I think it's a good thing, like I said, to have a standing item like the chief gives his report, you know, parks gives their report, finance, somebody gives a report, have somebody in case we have questions. But it is good because like I said, they're lying to us about other things to say, oh, you know, I don't know if you call it lying or you know, they're spinning their story, whatever they want to call it, but you know, and it's not and they may have said something. Oh, well, and it's, you know, maybe that's not what you

and so it's nice that if somebody was there, you know, and say, yeah, I do have something to say about it and say about it in your report or however we want to communicate, but we'll something that we're going to need to work on. This isn't going to be like decided tonight. This is our first meeting. This is something about opening the door and about us letting you know that we're here for you and you you know whatever y'all we don't want y'all to feel like, you know, y'all are out there on an island by yourself. Not at all. You're highly I value your opinion. That's why I want to go to your meetings. I've sat in your chair and I want what comes from you to influence my decision

because wisdom comes from a group of people not just from one person. The more wisdom that we have that we can share and how we deal with the issues that come before our city. I think the better decisions this council we have to make. Yeah, I think a report I mean you're going to get it's going to be one-sided be coming from one side of the party. So you don't get the deliberation, you know, the public comment. I mean, the best way to do it is just watch for watch. Yeah, I like that. We added the Zoom. That's I watched the last one. It's one of the best things we've done.

Vice versa, and you know, another good thing is when are the people who get up to talk? Okay. By the time they get up there to talk to you, you should be telling them you got five 10 minutes to do your presentation and that's it. Don't keep going because your meetings are going until oh my god and they feel so sorry for y'all. You it's like 11 12 o'clock and you're just going too late. They should come in and be able to limit you know where you're going to stop and that's I know we're able to limit you know three minutes for public comment for the actual applicant. Are we able to learn a presentation from I don't know question. Yeah. I don't know.

I would love a great get off track, right? And then they start introducing new stuff again which you don't have, right? And you're just hearing it hearsay or whatever they're doing because you haven't had time to study it, right? Don't let it I think we can materials have to be presented ahead of time. Yeah. At least three business days prior. So you're talking about

I'm talking church I'm talking about with the church when the church came in and wanted to resone that piece of property where that horse farm is and with the first five people that came up were like this is the fact what we like what we don't like and then we had two hours This is the greatest church in the whole world.

You can't limit three minutes. That's how we have it on documentation. Now, keep it at three minute. They have a right to come up and talk, right? If they signed up, they can sign up prior to your meeting before your meeting start. Get your sheet. That's what we've been doing here. And keep them at their three minutes. So we can't call them and say that doesn't have any fact. You cannot say any word. We represent the citizens of everybody right to speak.

Right. I understand. I just was trying it on the mayor used to make sure the list complete beforehand. Yes. You're saying if somebody just wants to come up and they didn't sign up, we don't have to. We don't have you do not have to let them come up

and that has been a big thing because we have that here to where people were sign up. You have sign up before I get them up here. I have it before the meeting starts or within a few minutes, three minutes per person and I call them and you know the list they're signed up and then you have their signature on there and you also know who it was. You know that's easy to say

because I felt the last time what I'm trying to do now especially when we work for crowd is I think some of you may have been there educating them a little about like what the process is going to look like and you did a good job you did a really good job opportunity like when before the meetings start like at the beginning of our presentation have a slide that's there that says if you'd like to speak please sign up that way as soon as the meeting starts that sign up is closed and SA has one She hangs it up on the door and then the fin

and also you you you don't have to accept extra data at the meeting like someone wants back because it's not public information. So should be an agenda by public. It's open to the public. What you're voting on at that time if it's not accurate then then that's new information. it's gonna go on underg you can just say reject it like say that's not what's in my packet that's not what's in the public posted you know online and you can reject it right there because you know that's one thing that that you do not and should not review at that time because you only have the information posted that that you have in your packet

would we be allowed if they were about to present us something new to say um would you like to you like for us to review this. We can postpone it now without even discussing or would you like us to discuss without this information and give them the choice? I think that's perfect. Absolutely. And but don't accept it. I mean because you haven't had time to review it. How are you going to make a decision on it if you haven't review?

Yeah. Don't be put on the spot. I mean PDS are very complicated as you show in the book and and it does need it has room for improvement and we've identified that same signs and you know we have committees going for that to approve it then now that we've got a functioning city now again with city manager in place standing back planning you know we need to start working back on that getting some of these ordinances and the the processes you know refined a little bit better so you don't get like you mentioned 15 variances that could be maybe should be potentially you know this

but it could change you know but just approve it right it's a blanket approval you're right be dangerous I don't think a PDD has to be a one meeting item there is a I wish there was a way for like each of those items on there I mean rather than us going through and saying okay we're breaking down item 22 into 2.2A to a on this variant, you know, and voting for each one. It it because it it felt last time almost like a a bill that comes forward and all this laws. Excuse me. So, let me

let me just say that if you would have read if you read the al there was also wording in there. One of them said only on the perfect rectangular lot. Guess how many perfect rectangular lots are on there? 11 out of the 360. 11. So that variant was going to apply to the 260 whatever and not to this those 11. And it was a big deal if you need to catch it. Yeah. Right. Okay. So those are things you'all have to have time. You can't wait for them to present that to you right there because you're going to miss it. you know,

you've got to study it and and so taking stuff at the last minute and letting them tell you it and walking through it. They didn't read it when they went through it. They didn't read that part, but it was on Is there a way I mean, and this might be a state law situation or maybe going to be tightened up with our ordinances, the PDDs, I mean, I like the idea of variances have to come later if we can allow that. I'm trying to I'm just trying to think of like what's the most um impactful use of the PDD to get like their actual point across, but then we can cover all of the other smaller things later somehow.

Well, the the the developer is going to insurance all so because there's usually a third day period land. So doing it scale like that won't fit within the traditional market of how land is sold. So that's why I'm saying they have to be concurrent. Now you could have a PD that just authorizes the uses that they want and maybe has a side plan and then the variances have to come forward. It's a bit of a loophole right now

and things like the savings when I was when I was trying to figure out why are they doing when I called you why are they doing a PED rather than just doing variances and I did the math like he's asking for, you know, 10 variances that get actually paid per variance in application to the city paying a lot more than just what the application is. So I think that's a little

that's true. So, uh, that's definitely model for choose. Um, we just need direction from council if you want to set it up that way. It'll be more expensive or applicants with lots of more complex projects will have more expense, but you'll be able to consider items. And actually, I think that we did that something similar with the quick trip when it came through because they had a BDD, but they also had some varian stuff that were separate. Y and we considered things had changed on that one. Um what's the impact with if we went that route with respect to like the shot clock?

So the PD is not covered by the shot clock. Shot clock only applies to u to subdivision plants and so um you can see the plat variance before filing the plat uh which is what has happened in the past. uh and the shot clock is not triggered because you haven't actually filed a plat because sometimes the variance changes the plat so much that it's not doesn't make sense to file a plat without the variance get the variance and completely re-engineer and totally change the plat. So that's why sometimes folks will ask for plat variance prior to filing. So I've heard you say that if we if we broke the variances out from the PD application that that would make the process more complicated for the developer.

It will. Can do you have a sense of how I mean I think the goal is not to deny more things. It's just to achieve clarity. example, many of the modifications they were called in the PED were very so if they had been variance requests, they would have had been very precise. And so I think we're getting that information on the second round uh now of more precision of okay, you said that what does that look like as far as what provision of the ordinance you actually trying to change? How are you changing?

And we've gotten that now from the bas. But um if they had done variances from the beginning would have had that. So also though tie your hands because if you go through the variance process you have to meet those criteria and so you don't necessarily have to do that for the PD process. I'm not saying that's good or bad. I'm just saying that's the way you know that's the short understood. You could find yourself with a project perhaps the council wants to approve but can't justify the variance under the variance process it's a risk

master [Music] initial response say no we need to get more yeah we can always postpone it based And so now we're getting more and the idea that something like a massive development 3400 home development is going to go the traditional PNZ council one week apart and get approved. It's not really realistic. Uh, we could have two or three meetings and two meetings on something that

relatively new to this. Um, uh, it was brought up in the meeting last planning my first rodeo. I guess um, I know the state of Texas has taken a lot of power away from the city. Um it was almost thrown at us from the developer that um there could be more power taken away from the city in this regard and almost like a like this is the best plan. Yeah. Is there um can we get briefed on some of the stuff that's coming down the pipeline from the state of Texas? I mean, I know there's I know the planning commission, we're bound by law, right? We just look at what from what I understand. We're looking at black and white and denying or proving. But, um,

well, he mentioned that night. It was a little speculative. I mean, they're starting to do it in a big city, but it's it's just speculation right now. It's been 150,000 and higher population what that applied to. So what they're saying is they're coming after you next. You know this is what happen. That's what they do. That's what they do.

Don't respond to sales. Well, and I understand that, but I think there was some discussion about that far as, you know, we don't want GB to come in there if our um, you know, some of Texas does come down on us and we don't have power to kind of state what we want for our city and we talked about, you know, 10ear plan, but that's where you use your Yeah. Right. So, or all the ideas and all the things that we have in there. We have a tree ordinance. We have, you know, we have a problem, you know, we a road and and the things that they need to be looking at right now is water.

Yeah. Right. And we know that. So there's other ways there's other ways of, you know, just uh working around those things that we still have in our back pockets that we still can apply because that's what our city has approved for us to apply, right? And to use and what they want for their future. So you just got to get a little bit creative about how you look at that. And

I just wanted to be educated because if this is our best, you know, then I don't want you but I also I'm person exist for a reason. You just gota use I mean you know we got the tree preservation. There was something that came across not too long ago. The developer strategically laid out his buildings, his drainage, his roads, everything to protect the most amount of trees that possible. And to me, I mean, that looks like they fulfilled the fundamental reason we have a tree preservation ordinance. So, I mean,

that's the spirit of the whole thing. Exactly. You got to think about it. We are trying to meet the greater picture here. You know, it's not all over. So, I mean there's a reason we have these ordinances. Yeah, absolutely. But, um I was thinking on my head I know power, right? Oh, yeah.

It's not likely power will be coming back to the cities anytime soon unless there's some change in government. We did have a a meeting with uh with some people a couple months ago just to find out what it would actually take to try to manipulate legislation in the state of Texas. And it's almost an insurmountable task

to try to move legislation through Texas that would be beneficial to our city or or any small cities, which is why we're affiliated with the Texas Municipal League and they have a little bit more leverage perhaps as a larger organization. Still to your point, after a legislative session is completed, I would also appreciate a briefing of some sort and maybe we could just sort of make it a standing thing that as these things get passed, yeah, maybe we have another workshop where poor Danny has to stand up or or Mike Castro and give us a kind of a breakdown. This is what it means for the city of Liberty. This is kind of what

uh we're up against. This is what is, you know, this next deadline September. I mean, I'm waiting through all I think there's 140 bills out of the last thing. Can I interject? So, do do they have access to the TML legislate? Is there a way I don't know policy? Yeah. Doesn't provide a broadcast or a video of it. to go to. That's my question. This is kind of what it was.

And I'll just say because I'm leading through it right now, the the summary that is very dense and legally and it would be lovely to have bills that

the mayor prom does it and she's been presenting up to our council of mayors and maybe I can ask her to come over and give us a presentation. be offered and she's really good about it and that's all she does. She follows so I I get updates of what passed and how it affects our small little Hill Country towns and so she said she could come and do a presentation and we can try and set that up so everybody can tell it would be public. Um, you know, it's just like we're gonna have a Oh, and I guess did Sandra that the fire hasn't gone out yet because I guess I did. But we're also having a Texas Water Company's coming in to do a public forum for Birdie only. It'll be a public forum. So, that's going to be open here next month. Um, so yes, we can start doing those and have them come in here and she can she can probably give us a good legislative update. She does a really good job because she's watching just what's happening to our small towns in folk.

Would it be possible to have council again? What do you mean? Because we used to have council legal counsel at planning and zoning. That was a decision that the current attorneys made that is not entitled to legal counsel. That's we used to have city attorney. I'd say that's the city's decision. M it was nice having it was so when these things did come up where there was some sort of hey are we allowed to say this or not it was nice having there was value to that oh absolutely I get it

you know what I'm ask we will ask and find out what the history was I don't know what the history was at this point but we can call and find out what was going Mr. Castro, with all your knowledge, you have anything to add to our group here? Not that I haven't already said. All right. Thank you for asking. Yes, sir. Do we have a code compliant person? We budgeted for one. So, we will be getting one. We we have the planning department is currently our planners are actually working doing that interim.

Okay. So Danny and them interim are handling that and we have I know there's a lot a lot of hats. So I know the mayor mentioned Chase Bank said how do we comply?

Well, it's about time because the chase sign's still there. Yeah, I drove I drove by a couple days ago. We called it on. Yeah, the one on the window was still up. The window maybe, but all the freestandings that we told them that was there they were supposed to take down. That's the best way to handle it right now. I just I report everyone I see. Take it on yourself. Yeah. Yeah. We didn't approve or we didn't recommend anything that they didn't do. They went against our

they ordered a bunch of extra banners that weren't uh vinyl stickers like those are still there. They usually end that presentation. You don't show me that. Well, 2700 28 78. Yeah. Was that chasing? Was that seven or whatever it was? The dental 77. Yeah, we we've got a lot of that. McDonald's has about 47 signs up. You know, they literally have We have Chick-fil-A signed everywhere. They're in Walmart's parking lot.

Chick-fil-A had a big old cow on the roof.

I didn't say anything first for a period of time because I thought it was for So, how Let's go back so we can get out of here. How else do we go? Um, I wouldn't I wouldn't mind boring these conversations. So, when we know they're coming forward, we kind of keep the list of things that come up in questions that we have. I know we talked a long time. I know you guys were saying earlier about there's committees for improving the ordinances and things like that. Um, I would love to have more of those conversations as well. I'll also mention there's always the opportunity for council to consider an item. Yeah,

we don't do it often, but if it's a major item, then call a joint. They would all have a discussion of vote. I would say too, you don't need to wait for us to ask you your opinion. If something comes up and you all feel as a body that there's something we should be thinking about, let us know. Yeah. For something as complicated as a branch, that would be appropriate could be a joint meeting or something that could be that complicated. We'll have to see what the looks not something.

Yeah, since you already had a meeting on it that complicated at all. Not really because we're going to have another meeting which I suspect we're not going to come out with full resolution at and that could be their third and your first, right? What is it? Do you don't you have a schedule? I mean when is that with are they coming back to the city? Uh not not at the staff level. Have you received the the email documentation from him but further explanation of we've received it um and we've been going back and forth trying to get it polished. Okay. And getting a more precise

and we see the water paint. Um, you know what? Let's try. I was gonna ask Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You got it. Um, let's not talk about specific development in here. Um, you can always make a phone call.

Maybe future future items. Okay. So, we're just talking here like how we can work better together and um continue to to have this. We can do these quarterlys. That works. We can figure out how to make that happen so that we can go through this and talk. But, you know, we're here for y'all and you know, we know you all are here for us. So, let's just figure out how we can do this better. stick to, you know, what we have to be able to to pass or not pass, you know, any variances and look at the whole picture. We'll be sharing information with you like what we're getting like through CPS and um we're building that relationship with them to where it's it's actually pretty tight right now and so they they're giving us so was it decided that we're going to listen to the meetings the planning and zoning meetings the zoom meeting or is actually

for me I'll either sit in the back back there and have fun and you see when I walk in I sit back there in the back and I'll come in and or I'll listen to it on um you know on Zoom say we always see we always

and I'm not there by any means intimidate anybody you know I just like to hear what you're talking about let's come to some city council meetings and I think that y'all decided that we want to add the you know report. I think that's a great idea. Yeah, I think it just makes sense. I mean, do we still like concerns of the report though, the complications of that?

So, I I do have some concerns about um about that uh from a legal standpoint, anything council receives part of part of the case that we challenge. Um and so a simple motion approval denial or approval of condition something like that is very simple bring forward a written report um that includes discussion of things that may not have actually explained the decision but want to include in there can now be held against us because it's in writing um because if you have one council let's say one commissioner says something inappropriate I don't like that kind of person with those kind of things

and then the commission votes to deny it but the others did it because they don't like flooding. Now we put it down. We can say well that guy said that but there's no evidence that government sure understood. Coming before the and you know you mean like the commission approving the report? No, no, no, no. We're not talking about one member saying this is my what happened. That's great. Okay. Right. But something that's official. This is the commission's position and it's more than that motion to vote. Um we've got an issue of timing and then we've got an potential issue with increasing the opportunities for legal challen

like we do for the other. So, no, what I'm hearing is no report separate from what comes forward already, but maybe having a member of planning and zoning attend city council meeting in case we have questions. Is that permissible? I don't think so in the past and I forget who chairman used to be oh even before that I'm not going way into the past now would come to every meeting um and give a report on what they felt the commission did uh do that for a long time and is that okay yeah I mean no one's ever attorneys

so is that similar to the other reports chief and and financial were they coming forward before the agenda items? I'm just getting a broad blanket. It's up in the in the report section and in the past the chairman or one of the other members would come and say we consider these three things. They're on your agenda tonight or maybe concerns if they had concerns or this this this is why we dial. I don't think there'd be anything keeping us when we were actually at that agenda item from saying for example, hey Ashley based on your recolle

maybe the takeaway here is to figure out okay so this was our first meeting to open this up to get the ideas we're going to have to work out the little parts and how we want to do it, fine-tune it. But, you know, one, we wanted to say, you know, congratulations for being on the board. Thank you. We appreciate everything y'all are doing out there and we're here to work through this and to work through towards, you know, the vision of our city and, you know, work for our constituents here as much as you and um I think we can do a good job working together. Okay? And we'll work we want to have the open dialogue. We need y'all can call phone number you can call.

What would be the best way for us to share or together? Um, we can't you know what I'll put together an email that I'll send you all out a list of the contact information for the people on the board to to city council. Yeah, but didn't have their they had their emails. Yeah. Um, and if you want to share your your phone number with somebody, by all means, that's up to you because I'm not going to share. Just be aware anything that you said. Yeah. Not only public record, but come back on.

I hate to be that voice of reason and not expound on it. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So, but I appreciate y'all's time. Promise we would be up here. If y'all have anything else to add, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And uh we appreciate

we'll set up a date to meet again. [Music]