County Council - Regular Meeting

breakfast. The school they don't teach them that those aren't donuts. They're crime fighting biscuits. That's just a Marian County Patrick. No, that's a nationwide thing. Oh, is it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Who are we waiting on? has gotten weird on you. I miss it. To the flag of the United States of America, to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Oh man, that's pretty good. Scott, you're the last one. And you say, who are we waiting?

Well, we kept waiting, so I thought there was somebody else. Why you it was I know last time that I actually tell you what you need and then you guys everybody take their lithium today. Is that what I need? Yes. Lithium carbonate work elevator. Does it just What's it do? You ever take We still want to kill people. You just don't have the energy. Yeah, but it didn't take much to do this. Yeah, but you got to pick it up. Yeah, that's true. It's pretty heavy. I've seen guys on that stuff gain 300 lb in a year.

Oh, I have an extra one. Shocking. Yeah, I'm trying to get down. I'm I'm hovering between You're in trolling weight. 225 and 229. Trolling. He'll be out there trolling chicks. No, not anymore, man. I'm basically married now. Oh jeez. What? That make you happier? Maybe for a while. Anyway, but I will. Stick a fork in it. My corrective action. What? Nothing. That's great. You saw the Facebook post. I did. You look serious. It's a great institution. If you like institutions, did you hit the like button? What I put on?

I don't think you did. Maybe I didn't freaking face. Yeah, that might explain a lot of his animosity, huh? It is. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's asked his wife because I'm not living with you. It took me at least 5 years to figure out. Well, I can't wait around too long cuz I'm old. Well, that's true. I know. And I'm not trying to start a family or anything. Well, you know, Yeah. Life is good. It always is in the beginning. Even this job was great in the beginning. Yeah, that's sure was what that first year was pretty good. Nothing like cheering you up.

Year two, year three, year four. It's my job. Make everybody happy. It's a club. Show how not to behave or not. Well, I social club. Yeah. This thing scares me, man. It really does. Yeah. I did. Yeah. School closed it. Yeah. Just closed because of the club. Yeah. Hey man, I made it up 135. I wonder on the slabs. They're not open. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But I got the excursion. I didn't drive a VW. Okay. Well, good luck getting on. No, man. I opened the door. I was just open the door and look at the Oh, you let the water out. No, look at the running boards. Hey, as long as it's not coming over those running boards. Maybe they're water boards. And it's excursions, so who cares? Oh, dude. It's going to feel like water board by the end of it.

It's, you know, that thing's a beast, man. Weighs 8,500 lb. Diesel or gas? Oh, no. Diesel 7.3 L. Oh, international motor. You're kidding me. No, that the engine and it's worth more than a truck. Wow. And you know that. Oh, it's a brood. Did you get a new pickup or something? No. I've had this thing since I bought it. No. No. Yeah. I've had that thing forever. It's only got 132,000 miles on it. Hopefully she lets you keep it. Huh? Hopefully she lets you keep it. like she hasn't said. Yeah. Well, it is early, isn't it? Still once you say I do, she'll say I don't. I'm not. No. I'm not getting married. There's no way. Practicing that line to I heard all that before.

No, I'm not. Huh? Practicing that line to see how we receive. Just testing the waters. Got a one word vocabulary. No, that's funny. Mcmorn star. You know who they are? No, I figured it was a McDonald's cup. Mcm morning Morning Star. They make those vegan burgers, don't they? Morning Star. Yeah, that's what they do. Meatless. Yeah, I think they're They should just call them boogers. She's already got him on a no meat diet. Look at this. Yeah, I've known her forever.

I notice you got the ring in your nose now. Yeah, boy. She's really got a hold of him. Well, that's a right. That's for the bold the thing they I got to start working out too. All right. Anybody have any questions or concerns about salary or anyone? Anyone? Sir, are you asking? Yeah. Okay. Um I just Julie just took me off to the side and so I'll share with you what I shared with her. Um and this is really just Is it about salary or this is a disclosure about salary organs? Huh? About salary organs? Yes. Yeah, because that's labor cost. Okay.

Okay. And labor cost are Yeah. Labor cost and employee benefits are the two biggest expenses that we got. Yeah. Period. Right. Okay. So, specifically with regards to the the uh it's not what I shared with Julie and then she asked me for me to send her an email. Okay. Kind of outlining this.

Mhm. is that what I personally and if you guys don't want to do it, do whatever you want. Uh because I'm just one out of seven. Um I want to see I've got 2025 labor cost because I did that work the month of July last year. Took me all month to do that Excel spreadsheet that I emailed all of you guys. Then I want to look at 2026 salary ordinance that you all passed and I want that. And then I want WIS uh and their work that they gave us they used a target goal of 50% of external correct so what I want to look at is I want to see okay here's 2025 broken down by department and of course fund because most of the labor costs are all coming out of the general fund because there's 25 departments and And I want to look at 2025. I want to look at 2026. And then I want to look at that 50 that 50%. Because then we can go through and look at it by department.

Mhm. And know, you know, because to me, what I want to calculate is the story problem goes something like this. Here's where we were. This is where we want to get to. How in the world do we pay for it? because and then I'll share this with you going forward from this day going forward made my mind up. I've spent hours thinking through I sent an email to Ed. I have a rule as a financial planner because I'm a financial planner. That's what I do. I have a 9050 rule

and a 9050 rule that I have. So when we do the budget, I'm going to benchmark the budget against the 9050 rule. The 90 rule is that our annual dispersements shall not exceed our annual receipts at 90%. Period. So our operating costs should be at 90% of whatever that forecasted receipts are. Now on the receipts clearly we need to do our homework. So I to give you an example I went back and printed out all I've got them with me the general fund all the receipts over the last I think 11 years is what gateway goes back you know and so we need to analyze our revenue side so that we're very clear of where that's coming from and what we can expect it to be in 2027. So we've got an accurate number because the target is to be at 90% of that. Now why 90%. Well, have you all throughout your lifetimes through the media Dave Ramsey in the financial medium median and to give you an idea uh 70% approximately 70% of the American public live paycheck to paycheck and have very little in the way of short-term cash reserves or money in the bank. And at the personal level, you've all heard that the average household should strive to have six months worth of savings, six months worth of expenses in the bank.

Emergency fund.

Emergency fund. Right. Okay. So, because that's only six months. So when we get to the cash reserves and my my primary focus, you know, are our our levy funds. Okay. So especially that general fund because it it has to absorb you know almost half of the cost is our cash year in cash reserves should be at 50% and that 50% is year in cash reserves 50% of your annual dispersements because if you hit that you've got six months right and keep in mind you know if you just take the general fund you know we're 3000,00 000 plus over uh red ink, you know, or in other words, our dispersements are projected to exceed our receipts.

Darren, I have it all. Okay. Do you do you have it? Oh, I've got it all. Yeah, I've got it all documented. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've got it all. Say that again, Joe. I I quite catch what you other words, and this is, by the way, a very long disclaimer. It's like that fine print at the bottom. Yeah, it is what it is. I'm just telling you. I'm just telling you. Okay. And if we're going to have a disagreement, let's let's flush it out. Last part. You're talking about structurally balancing the budget.

I'm talking about receipts. Okay. Because I'm using government language. So you have receipts. That's your revenue that comes in the general fund, right? And so if we've got 10 million coming in forecasted for 2026, we should only be spending 9 million. What I'm not doing is I'm not taking the 10 million and then adding three and a half million in cash reserves, which is your personal checkbook accounting. Because if you take the average household, you know, if you've got $1,000 a month, if if if you look at the end of February and at the end of February, you had $1,000 in your checking account and you know you're going to have $3,000 in income from your employer, that gives you four grand, right? So, the average person is going to look and say, "Well, hey, March, I'm good. I've got four grand. I got $3,500 worth of expenses. I got an extra $500 left over at the end of the month, right? But then isn't that going to cause problems for for April?" Because if you had $1,000 in your checking account at the end of February and you've only got three grand coming in, that gives you four grand, but you're going to spend $3500. So, by the end of March, you're down to $500. And if April holds true of March, then by the end of April, you have zero, doesn't it? Okay. So, I don't when I look at our budget, I don't the cash reserves. I'm not going to take those receipts. So, say 10 million. So, 35, you know, 3.5 million in reserves, that's 13.5. Hey, we're spending 106. We're good. We got plenty of money left over. I don't look at it that way because to me, you know, if if we're spending more than we're taking in, then you're gradually going to burn those reserves down. I It's just a matter of time, right? Now, maybe you'll have one year in there where something happens, you get a little extra money, but over time, you will inevitably bleed down

those cash reserves. And furthermore, those cash reserves should be at 50% of expenditures. So, we should have like right now, you know, in a perfect world, which we don't live in a perfect world, we ought to have $5 million sitting in the general fund in cash reserves. 4.3. Okay. Well, that's the first time I've heard that. Okay, that's good. To tell you last time. Okay. We're burning ready. I have it documented for 26 year.

I have documented for 2026 her read and my math. I've done all the math. Okay. Okay. And I've got it. Matter of fact, he's got it. He and I sat down and went over it. Okay. So, right now, based on a $10 million, you know, $10 million receipts for the general fund, we're spending over that right now. And keep in mind, you know, this is this is March. We still have 10 months left. So, that you know, anyone that comes in here and says, "Hey, we need more money." And you all do additional appropriations, then that just compounds the problem. that gets stacked on top of that, doesn't it? If you do any additional appropriations for the general fund. Okay. So, you know, 4.3, wonderful. That's good news. I'm glad to hear that. Okay. Uh but the target is 5 million. Now, why is it 5 million? Well, if we can hit that 50%

because that's 6 months of emergency. It's six months. Yeah. But here's the thing. How much do we have in the rainy day fund? 200. It's less than 300 grand. It's like 285,000 two 287 something like we we need to build that back up, right? And and and and then and and so you know that rainy day fund, we ought to have $5 million in a rainy day fund. Now, why would we want to have $5 million in a rainy day fund and $5 million in cash reserves? That's $10 million. That's one year's worth of receipts, right? Because this county has gotten into a habitual habit of renewing general obligation bonds, have they not? If we didn't then we would be writing red income.

We have to borrow the money because we don't have any cash, right? Okay. Because we Okay. So, I don't like borrowing money. I don't I don't either.

Okay. Number two, keep in mind and I've validated this. This is an act. I'm not going to make a statement unless I can back it up. And if I do, then I'll preference that's a subjective anecdotal opinion. January 1 of 2030, county won't have any debt. None. zero. School corporations will because they got their $6 million football field to pay for it, right? But the county won't because that general obligation bond expires, right? That 4 million that we borrowed. And then also the debt on the the justice system that expires. So the county won't have any debt. So that's a really good thing unless what? Unless somebody comes in here and says, "We want to build a $10 million new highway garage." And then the issue is is whether or not the council is going to go ahead and approve that $10 million 30-year long-term debt, which I don't want to borrow any money. So, in my mind, it's basic math that, you know, if we spend less than we take in, we build our cash reserves, fill up that rainy day because I pulled the statute on the rainy day. What I need to do and I haven't done is go down to the recorder's office and see if they can find the ordinance because there shouldn't have been an ordinance that was passed when the county established that rainy day fund. I think state statute I read uh that we can put 10% in that per year. So it's, you know, this what I'm talking about, this is something that, you know, it's not going to happen overnight, right? I mean, this is something you have to work towards, you know, but what I will say is, as you all know, you know, this is an election year, you know, I'm running unopposed. So I'm assuming unless something happens come November, then I'm going to find myself in this seat for another four years. And I am not going to take responsibility for if this county hits the wall. Not going to do it. Okay. So I don't because I have had, you

know, two or three conversations with Rob Norris with the DGF and what I've he's told me and educated me on is that a municipality or political subdivision cannot become insolvent because the deal GF will not allow. We've discussed that before, right? So let's not go over that again.

Right. But if so to me we're you know the big behag is this labor cost issue right and so because we got labor cost we got unemployed benefits and then you got all the other stuff toilet paper and copier paper and all the other stuff that you know we have to we have to buy every year right you know so that's why I email with Julie and that's the report one page two page at the most report that shows 25 26 50% % of external so we can understand the overall cost and then back in because we got to back into it and say how do we move this thing forward because the goal is to what get everybody to employ at 50% external right that's

have you done have you run a projection on that how we do that without the without the go bond well it's basic math get a calculator out and a legal we can't do it without the go bond well it that's a limit limiting belief. No, that that that right that's a limiting belief. We have okay we have capital expenses. We have the the Darren we have it stuff that has been paid out of that. Then fine do what you want. Just if we not have the bond then that would have come out of our cash reserve. We're not we don't have the money. We have to do the bond. That's what I'm saying. I don't want to borrow money. So how are how are we going to cover those expenses? You got to cut expenses. Okay. Let's cut the IT department. You got to cut expenses.

We're going to cut the IT department. Okay, Darren, I'm not going to sit here and engage in this. That's the story problem. Okay, it's a very difficult story problem. Are we going to fire half the staff? We got Darren, we're not going to solve it. You You keep saying that we need to cut expenses. You have not come in here with a specific expense that we can cut or Why don't you work on it? Because I'm not saying I'm not the one saying we have to cut. So, you're okay with status quo? No, I want to tighten everything. Tighten what? Our budget. We are What do you want to tighten? We are within What do you want to tighten? That's the thing. We're We're pretty much at bare bones now. We don't have fat to cut.

Okay. I don't I you know, I'm going to disagree with you on the bare bones thing. Okay. Propose a solution. That's what I'm saying. I want you guys to Why is it that I got to come in? Because you're the Why is it It's not my respect. It's not my It is a problem. What is the problem specifically? Why don't you guys go work? Huh? Why don't you do the math? I have. Well, then put together. So, you're the one saying we're writing red ink. We are writing red ink. No, we're not. If we were writing red ink, we would not have 4.3 million in cash reserves. You're using a particular part of the budget.

My red ink is real simple, Darren. It is it's receipts divided by dis what's your annual dispersements and your receipts. When I say red ink all I'm referring to I'm not looking at cash reserves. We're not saying more than we're taking in really. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, I've got documentation in in my briefcase. I'm getting some documentation on

eight out of the last 14 years. Eight out of the last four. Eight out of the last 14 years the county general has written red ink. Period. Straight off a gateway. I'm not making those numbers up. I've got it. Okay. So, historically, the county has written red ink. Now, we have back before we got before we got the health the health insurance thing solved. Okay. That was the big thing that was killing us. We got that solved. Okay. So, what are you saying? Just status quo. just keep doing what you're doing. What do you say to remain diligent? I'm just telling you where my head's at. And the goal that you want, you want to I want $10 million.

Yeah. You want $10 million in there and then you want to eliminate the coupon, which I want to get rid of debt. No debt. And I want $10 million in reserves. We can't do it. The math doesn't Not with that attitude. You can't. No. The math that attitude right there, you can't do it. The math says we can't do it. Okay. Be careful with your beliefs and your assumptions. Okay. It's not belief in assumptions. Well, it is because what you've already said that there's no way we're going to do it. So, I guess I guess you're right. It won't ever happen. There's no way it will ever happen. That's what you just said. Here's how we do it. Like I said, we get rid of the IT department. We go back to notepads and pens. Um the meeting. If you're not here, then too bad you missed the meeting. Um that's my disclosure. I'm not going to engage anymore. I'm done. And we eliminate and we eliminate half the

I'm done. I'm not gonna engage. Let's stop this. This is not productive. It's waste of time. All right, seller audience, what do you have? Uh, you have the actual papers in front of you

and I have kind of put a timeline on how we went about discussing everything and who was where at the time. So after we got back and we did the salary ordinance and we got it recorded, office holders began to contact me and wanting to know why they didn't have a say in this. That some of their people were being way overpaid that this was I had to explain to them that there was always an amendment. we can always do amendments and then I set up times for them to come in and meet with me as well as uh at times Darren or Gary were was with me in the office or both. Um, so once the salary ordinance was looked at, it came to the attention that some of the hire dates were not correct because they were using higher. Not that it was on purpose, it was because people switched offices. So then they put in that date when they switched the office instead of leaving their original hire date, which is what should have been put on there. That is pretty much what happened. So we had to go back and take the original hiring date. Um, also, uh, a lot of the people that we just talked to were like the judge, planning commission, um, parks and wreck because a lot of the people were being way what they felt was way overpaid or some of their stuff was not correct. So, we sat with them, we listened to them, we put things in that they asked for, which truly wasn't that much.

I get my notes out. The judge had the judge was had um one of her people were did not have the correct amount in for her. So we had to didn't have the correct job description. The benefits of this D.

And some of the angle changed as well like different people are in that position. Maybe start with uh how they got this set up. Okay, let's start with the planning department. Um Kayla came in as a very we call it insistence that Uh Logan did not fit the bill of what his money was. He's not doing near the stuff that Lonnie's doing. And he was being like overpaid or she felt to me he was being overpaid. So

So just to paraphrase what you just said, what I think I just heard is the the um salary or the what's it called? the salary that the job description the job description wasn't in alignment with the actual responsibilities that employment. So the job description basically overstated and so what they did is artificially inflated the the income. So we're talking about the code inspector and the building she felt that he was more of a comed rather than what they had him listed as.

Yeah. Having been in that role, the building commissioners a boatload of responsibility and the code inspectors less. And so if they were imbalance, then she that's an obvious error, you know, and on the job description. Not I'm not sure if it's a job description. It's the judge said this better than anybody in our county. We're a small county. people, some people do more than a larger county who has all the numbers that can do it, right? We we don't have those numbers. So those So people that we have are doing more than what these other counties

So we have people within these departments that wear multiple hats that aren't necessarily part of that job description. Correct. Got it. So if we could I'm sorry. So just continuing with the planning and zoning. So are what's the results of that conversation? How do I see that on this sheet? Okay. So well that she's not totally done yet. Okay. Okay. So that's just the actual numbers at the moment. I don't have any of this stuff. I'm going to make another finish it and actually have everything listed out the input reflected and I want to actually spell out what was changed, how it was changed, who requested the change.

And then could we add benefits and the cost of benefits to those changes to this because that's about half of it, right? I mean, if we've got 276,000 in additional salary with no health insurance, retirement, you know, taxes, Scott, then then we're seeing half the cost there roughly. It's actually over half a million if you add benefits. So, I think we need to see that that number also in here. Jim, are you still going by Jim or is it Jimmy Dean? Jimmy Dean. If you take which is your real name, right?

It is my legal name. Yeah. Yeah. Great. It makes me feel like a little kid. I know. That's awesome.

Jimmy Dean, if you take the the commissioners have an additional appropriation before us currently. And if you take that that position, I think it's 425 423 something like that. And I've got it. I've got it in here. I've done the calculation. you end up with basically 65,000 a year. Okay. So if you mentally I'm just kind of shortcut a mental shortcut if you take a pay grade assuming that they're you know assuming they are a on the individual group medical so not family or anything else assuming then you've got to ramp that annual salary up uh 138%. It's about you're going to add Yeah. Because you got 11.2 two in FICA you got or excuse me in Perf 7.65 you've got you know was it 14 grand a year for group medical you know

that include tax fully burdened fully burdened correct taxes yeah everything yeah it's all yeah it's yeah because you got unemployment work yeah you know the the the fight taxes the life insurance is in there right yeah so so 438 it's called 40% yeah if you hit it 1.40 40. That's going to give you a pretty good estimate of the annual cost. Julie, I mean, assuming Jim is right, which is a dangerous assumption. Uh, we could final number. We don't want to do the whole fully. It's like an easy way to get to the number. If we're just looking for ballpark, would it be times 38% or add 38% to the salary number? I'd be okay with that if

Yeah. It gives you it's a quick and easy down dirty, you know, gives you a good estimate. Okay. So, sorry. You were talking about judge next. Yeah, the judge actually was talking about one of the employees and the salary being um 50 some,000 but it should have been 4853045. What are you looking at? Um the judges Oh, this is court. This is not going to tell you.

No, that's fine. That's fine. What I'm telling you? Yeah. Okay, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. And then per the state, um, Jennifer Actton was incorrect. Um, and a couple other people in her office was not correct. So, we had to go back through that from from their calculations and rework those from the state's calculations. So, Julie, can I ask a clarifying question? You can. Where ICWIS? Yeah. Is that the sal what was adopted for the salary ordinance? That's what's in this new one. Yeah. Okay. All right. And then when I look down at the bottom,

if I get this right, it says, okay, uh the salary ordinance that was passed uh was increase labor cost to 276 206. That's correct. Had we have and what you've done is for a benchmark, which is good work. Had had we have implemented a 3% across the board, that would have been another 203. So the reality is is this what you guys did with the 2026 salary ordinance is a delta of 73 grand times 38 plus 38% 73 grand is all you spent additionally had we have given the three% which we didn't. Yes. Got it. Okay. Well that makes sense. So Jim just one clarifying question to your clarifying question.

Yeah. The form ones remind me we did not include the the the raises at all. It was a flat. Am I right? There was no increase. Zero increase in the 3%.

The only the only thing I will say because I've got it that's that took me a month to do it. Matter of fact, Huitt came in and spent an afternoon with me, which was graciously appreciated to do the data because it was a lot of work. Um, but I had to do that labor cost report because you, matter of fact, you did it. You said, "Hey, departments, you got to be at 95% of your 2025 budgets." Okay. Well, what I had to do is I went through and had to do that analysis of all the labor costs. There was 180 employees as of the end of June of 2025. Um, because some of the form there were inconsistencies. Some of the form ones that they submitted for labor cost, some of the people went ahead and added in a 3%. Some of them were really good and their numbers matched the 2025. Now,

so I had to go in and look at the delta. Those numbers reflect without the 3%. Okay. So, in other words, numbers. So, these these form ones, those form one numbers res reflect without the 3%. You pulled those out of that. So, so this this number, right, this column here is basically 2025 labor cost. Yes. Zero increase. Even if they had it in there at the beginning form one, it would form their form one is a request. I'm just saying you tr you up.

Yeah. Some department heads went ahead and asked for the 3% because if they don't ask for it in the form, the reason I put 3% on there was You can't blame a department for ask and if it was me, I'd be they can get it and they're about to get it. So, plus that. Yeah, we're not going to raise. No, we're working on getting everybody the We're working on getting the structure up to the FS. My point is it's not true that they can't get anything other than what's on the form one. It's not true. You're not getting an extra 3% is what I'm saying. Right. Yes. And that's what we agreed to. They're getting more than that. Some of them could, right? Some of them. because we adjusted.

Yeah, if you read the we are making adjust adjustments to the FS system until we get that to a point where it is completely flatline for for everybody and every every job is properly counted based on the FES system. until then decided was anyone that was below cost of the internal on the whisk forms that we paid for um went up to that particular level. So some may have gotten a $5,000 raise just as Oh yeah. Yes. Because they were underpaid to begin with. Yeah. Right. I I do have another clarifying question. Okay.

Stipens. Yes. uh under this factory evaluation system my assumption stipens winning the pay right because stipens go away stipens no more I'll put the doc right the doc not go away and then there were the ones in my office that are specific to the people that are working there once this year is over those go away yeah so I'm asking the council body that now that we've flipped over to the factory evaluation system. Um, does the council body have a policy now that stipens are no longer Yeah, I believe we si Susan, are you there?

I'm here.

Uh, for for us for the stipens to go away, we need an ordinance to to eliminate the stipens. Correct. I I think it would be best because you have these stipens that have kind of been in place over various years, right? They're not all compiled in one place. And so if that's going to be your policy that stipens rolled into these salaries under the factor evaluation system and the only stipens that are still out there are for those jail officers, right? That's what she was talking about with the DOC. Then I think we need that policy just very clearly in writing so everyone is very well aware there are no stipens that are that are going to be awarded.

I agree. Well yeah and that that may make sense. I would add that in addition to DOC though I believe there are some statemandated assessor stipensated. Yeah. There are state mandated stipens that have to remain in place. Yeah. Yes. But we would Yeah. So all of the ones that that council has created over the years to balance jobs or compensate for another all of that has been put into the new job descriptions. The fees system has caught up to being paid for. That was the only option you had. You can't

it's rolled into so Mr. President, are we is the council body going to establish a policy and then have Susan Beavers draft up an ordinance that you know it's official there are no longer stipens are a thing of the past? I hope so. Except except for the DOJ. Well, do you want to make a motion, Judy? I will. I make a motion that we make an ordinance that uh stipens go away except for the DOC and the state mandates such as assessor those types and that the duties are rolled into the job description to reflect the accurate job.

Before you officially make that motion, do you know where you are on your on your account of being able to vote remotely? Are you talking to me? Yes. I I made a motion. I didn't vote. Well, let's let's talk to Susan about that because I think we could all use a refresher. Um Susan, what? It's it's there's a limit on votes and there is a limit on the types of activity votes that you can vote on. I believe yes, it's budget related votes that are the restraint that you just can't vote at all on virtually. And so Susan, could you cl help remind all of us on that,

please?

Yeah, I you're correct on on the budget related items are not allowed to be voted on virtually. Um, so I don't recall that Judy has voted on any of those. Um, otherwise any uh voting in a virtual meeting, I believe the limit is three. Um, I I mean I could try to pull that up real fast to confirm that here before the end of the meeting. Um, like she said, um, right now she's making the motion, which she's part of the meeting. You see her on screen. Um, she's right in there in person, right? We're not we're not having an issue with that because that's part of the requirements of voting virtually is she has to be able to be seen on screen. Um, so she's made the motion that doesn't count as a vote um because she's, like I said, participating and participating in pursuit to the rule. is is the three is the three vote limit is that per per meeting or is that collective for the year?

Uh that is collective but I feel like and that's why I said I need to go back and look at the rule. I feel like that is um for the sequence of meetings that you're out. I mean obviously like if you're out for two meetings in a row or three meetings in a row I feel like it's collective for those meetings. Once you are back to attending in person I think we reset that clock just a little bit. Um, but I'm gonna try to look at that while we're still on so that I can make sure that that I have that correct and I'll see you on Monday. Okay. And then Susan, I think Yeah.

Well, I guess my my concern on that uh is I think I think while you've been out, Julian, you might be at that limit of votes. That's okay. I just made the motion. Right. But what I'm what I'm what I'm saying I mean this this it's an important motion to make it and I want to make and I want to make sure nothing happens to it on a on a technicality. Right. I understand. No problem.

Okay. And then Susan on the budget related votes. I think it pertains to like technically this stipen you know you could generally think it's a budget related v vote but I think the rule is actually about adding debt increasing taxes and something else. when we say budget related votes, you can't vote on those. And so if you could when you look at that, if you could remind us what those no vote categories are. And you're correct on that. That is the spending more money, right? Okay. Um so she needs to be present in person to be able to vote on those things where you're spending more money.

So this mo this motion which is which is eliminating stipens is doesn't even come close to that. Well, and I think it's even more it's more specific than even just spending money. It's I think it's like specific types of activities and so we just need to be aware of it. Okay. Okay. Motion has been made. I think it was second. Scott motion to eliminate all the stipens except for the DOC stipens for the sheriff's department. Statemandated. Yeah.

Quick discussion because I think Last year in work sessions, we did not take votes and things and take action. And this year, I know you've sent out a full procedural update to the council, but I'm wondering if we have advertised this year that we can that these are official meetings. We can do votes on. That is correct. It was the advertising to the public and I was and we advertised that way. Where did we did we do that in the paper? Yeah. beginning of the year when when this or when that when meeting out it was in an article or a ad or something a legal notice a legal notice. Okay. Okay. I just want to make sure we kind of but I do have that on the fine print of the agenda that

Right. That's right. If we if we don't have to I don't want to do it at work session. Right. This one's a good one because we're eliminating eliminating statements to to me. This is a I'm okay personally with policy issues. So this is a policy issue on additional appropriations that should be at a regular meeting, right? Absolutely. Yeah, I see here. Yeah, you've even got on every agenda like letting public No, that's good. Um, so yeah, good clarification. Thank you. Okay, great. Um, all in favor? All opposed? Motion carries. I obsess.

Okay. Or Sandy because she needs to do the roll count now. Jim, come on. Well, no. That's what I wanted. Do this and then do the roll. That's what we You're going to get this in a formal written ordinance and she'll do her roll call vote when you pass it at that formal written ordinance. Cool. Yeah. So, right now we're just It was just All right. Thanks. Thank you, Susan. Thank you, Susan. He went to check on his son. Oh, okay. He's got driving around the parking lot. Okay.

You're going down through specific.

Okay. So, uh, there were names changed to different for like, um, Corey Morrison is not with the public offenders anymore. Joe pronounc his last name. So, I'm not even correct. Um, we changed that. Uh, let's see. There's others. Like I said, Jennifer was in her end. Mallerie came in and we've done theirs exactly like it's supposed to be and changed that. And then actually on um some of the prosecutors the prosecutor has the grant for different well on the salary ordinance I now have what they pay and what we pay. We pay like 10,000 I think it is.

Okay. Did the council members bring the documentation that was given to us by WIS last fall? I did. Yeah, I've got mine. I have mine. I have mine with me. Okay. Um it just be for me to be completely forthright since that meeting last fall I spent no energy going over this. Okay. So would it be beneficial for us today to kind of walk through these classification levels? That's what today's about

because I'm assuming Julie, you spent a lot of time. So because you spent a lot of time, you're probably the one that's going to be most familiar with these classification levels because the one of the one of the benefits I think and let me say this and then see if you all agree with this statement. This is a subjective statement on my end. So let's just take it for what it's worth. The old system you had, was it 30 payraes? 35 something like that. 35. Okay. And then every pay grade had a hourly amount. Yeah. We had the hourly one number.

One number. So as an employee, if I were an employee, it's easy for me to go, well, I'm a pay grade nine and they're a pay grade 14. And then I can cross reference and see how much more money they make, right? Whereas this system, okay, with this, you know, com computer, office machine, operation technician, LTC, labor, trades, craft, civilian, pole, pole, protective, occupational law enforcement, professional administration technology, executive merit poll. Yeah, it's it's it's

definitely different. Well, not only is it different, but that it there's there's really no way for the auditor's office to really publish a one page like you did in the past with this, is there? I There's really no way you could do that, can you? Because under this system, you know, because it's a point system, right? Yes. Unless we basically publish this into the county or Yeah. But Yeah. which is not because ordinance does state on their how much their actual dollar amounts are as well as their pay.

This is this is our one page breakdown of the does happen of the levels and the pay and the hourly pay for it that you created. It's in the salary. It's in the salary, but it it is a onepage pull out that covers all of it. Okay. We we have the same list of everything like the same the same as we had with the 35 pay raise. Yeah. Because I've not spent any time on that Excel spreadsheet that Julie sent out because it's I got confused because of the way it's formatted. But um Okay. So, and if you guys don't want to talk about this, that's fine. That's part that's part of this meeting. That's part of the salary organization. So that's part of

because I I it would help me to review this with you all. This this this this classification levels to understand it. No, you don't want to do it. It sounds great. If you don't want to do it, that's fine. I say I'll drink the coffee and be quiet. No, I say we do it. If there's any if there's any confusion on it, we need to have we need to have it straighten. My question is if you haven't spent any time on it and you're going to be leading us through it, that may not be a maybe we need

I didn't say I was going to lead you through it in two months. I'm just asking. No, because like right but like for example one of my first questions is right you know as I look at this because it's you know on the surface it's pretty self-explanatory right uh but what I don't know for example you know you got what 31 departments something like that approximately so you know when I look at computer office machine operation technician you know does that you know is that primarily the administrative class which is your auditor assessor, IT, you know, commissioner's office, you know, treasurer, those positions, or does that computer office machine or or am I wrong in in saying what I'm wanting to do is I'm wanting to tag these with departments, but I can't really tag them with departments because you're going to have a you're going to have different people within each department that may

anybody elected is a special occupation. Okay. What's under that? I'm sorry. What did you What is it? It's called Special Occupations. SO So I'm looking for Hang on. S. Oh, that's for chief deputies. Yeah, I don't see it listed here. I'm on page nine that they gave out is what I'm looking at. Page nine and 10. Maybe I'm on the wrong one. Oh, they put vermillion. I think they have a a specialist for the auditor and the electives. I don't really think they have a

the break the breakdown in the WIS study starts on page six. Where's it at? You're on this one right here. Right. Six, seven, and six special. Oh, okay. Cool. Yes. So positions are separated from the classification system for various reasons usually for special terms and conditions of employment rules or laws governing compensation. Compensation recruitment for SO positions are determined by the unique cir circumstances for each position. So Jim, let me um before we do that.

Yeah, go ahead. This this is from in.gov. It's their careers about they use the FES system also at the state and federal level. Yeah. Because FES is the federal it's federal government. Yeah. Created it, right?

Um comma, coma, whatever you want to call it, clerical office machine operators and technicians. These are these are positions that would be clerical in nature and may not require college training or specific professional training. The following are positions that would be considered clerical. Clerical assistants, account clerks, store clerks, secretaries, claims takers. Executive ES we don't have the assignment. Labor, trade, and craft. We have that. These positions would be considered general labor or maintenance and help maintain and repair state facilities. The following are positions that would be considered general labor maintenance. Building custodians, auto mechanics, maintenance, repair, ground swirl, and highway department. Uh, professional, administrative, and tech technological act. Occupations that require specialized or theoretical knowledge through college training or through extensive work experience that requires ongoing training which provides comparable knowledge. The poll to the protective occupations law enforcement. These are positions such as correct correctional officers, security guards, arson investigators, and conser sheriff's department. And the special officer that or the special occupation that you you just read,

that's a breakdown of of was highway in there somewhere. Yeah, the LTC LTC and that's all that's all in here too. And so it I guess I'm um and so in this salary ordinance vote, I think what we're saying is we're okay with those declarations of the fees, you know, point system with these specific on that end of last year. But I mean with the salary ordinance that's where where it is actually approved and once it's approved which we actually did. We approved the salary.

Yeah. The only mistake we've made we've got to make correction which is let me finish. Let me finish. Once we correct the the changes that Julie's got in those designations within the F fees system, then we will have essentially every employee graded and and therefore in very rare cases, which I don't expect to hire any new positions. I mean, I can't imagine us hiring a new person for doing something new, adding to government at this point. I mean, but if we did, I mean, it sounds like the commissioners are asking for one,

you know, if we did, then and only then would we have to go back to this and, you know, based on the categories you just described, it's pretty straightforward. you know what category they're going to fit into and then there's a little but and so I I guess my suggestion is we rather than going through a full evaluation within the whole system all of us spending the whole all of our time including our attorney's time on that when none of us are experts on it to boot this may not be effective but if we focus and I assume this going to be at our next meeting with the changes that we actually need to discuss to the actual positions that are being brought forward. That's going to be the best use of our time and our attorney's time and you know everyone else's. So I just like to keep us focused on today's but we're not talking about that.

Yeah, we are. Do we have those positions the the the FAS system is in the salary or covering everything in the salary ordinance is getting all the confusion cleared up. So yeah. Do you not have a copy of the salary ordinance? Well, I do. But what we're talking about is the changes that are being made to the salary orders, which I don't think we're seeing here. No, that's what she's going over. Yeah. Well, verbally, right? We don't have anything. I don't have the actual changes. I plan to actually put them on paper, give them to you. Unfortunately, I had to I've spent a lot of time on the AFR uh for the state to get that in. And now that I'm doing my corrective action plan for that, I put that aside and start working on this.

Give me a call when you do. This will be finished hopefully by next week out, right, Darren? We're going over it. You're going over it, but you don't actually have them. What factors? What factors affect the salary? The numerical thing. the commot type stand actually the the actual what they refer to as the uh commot and the um pat a those affect your salary whether you're a b c of one or abc is the other I mean if it's a comma a it's one thing if it's comma b it's another if it's comma c it's another

what controls abc is that the fs numerical Yeah, that's the that's the pay grade within the within the class. Okay. And then what what other factor if you throw supervisor in there in their job description, doesn't that affect their their position or their salary? I think that's one of the things that we did find out that how they how the job descriptions describe what that person does or labels what that person does. Wasn't that the problem with the parks and wreck? Not parts and wreck hand uh received the money and all that that they they got these names but they weren't really issue

and the courthouse had an issue with that with the Yes, they did. And so in those specific cases, when we see those pay requests from the departments, which we don't see today, we're not able to discuss the specific amounts, which is how we use the FES system. That's what determines the amounts. I mean, we can't I mean, we could just spitball this today. We don't even have numbers. So, we got the number we got and it has the numbers in it. Okay. So, could you lead us through how we would grade these new employees she's talking about? They're not new employees. They're old. Well, I mean, the new the new A month the new declaration. That's what she's going That's what she's going over. She's going over the list of I mean we have

Yeah, just we don't have anything to see and there's no specific numbers, right? Or is there I have specific numbers. Can we see those? Well, Scott, can I'm going to inter Well, hang on a minute. I'm I'm getting You're getting me completely confused. Okay. Um because I you know, one We've got we have April, May, June. July 1 is form one day.

Mhm. So to me, in my mind, April, May, and June, beginning with today's date, because to me, this meeting is an opportunity for us to get extremely organized till we can map out our agenda for these special session meetings for April, May, and June. And the topic of the subject is labor cost because per a conversation with Lori Rogers several months ago, you know, the salary ordinance should be completed, right? Actually, before we even go into July,

but you can't do that for next year. I don't know how you would do that. And I don't know why she would tell you that. Well, she Well, here's why. Because if you think about it, you got to do the budget, right? Yeah, but the that's where you get your salaries from the budget. Well, now wait a minute. Who controls the comp who controls labor cost? The department is or the council? Well, council does support.

Okay. So if the council, you know, to me the council is the only elected seven member board to rein in the spending from the 31 departments. Because if I were the county sheriff, I would work you guys so fierce and I'd have a brand new $150,000 G-Class Mercedes-Benz for my daily driver. Okay? And I work you until you gave me enough money to go buy. All right? So, I don't blame the departments for asking for as much money as they want to get, right? I mean, that is their prerogative and they should. The only thing to keep the spending in control is the council body. And what we've agreed is that we want to go from 25 to 50% external. Have we not? Didn't we agree on that? That's the goal.

We're working toward it. Yeah. That's the end. Begin with the end in mind, right? at issue is how do we get there, right? So, what I also heard someone say is that no cost of living because instead of giving a 3% cola, we're going to use that as a way to step up and begin to move towards the fees. Yes. Correct. Okay. Yes.

Where I'm need clarification just for my own little pea brain. All right. Is I know I think there's a I do know this in the general fund there are 25 departments that are funded exclusively with the general fund highway they got their own health department. You got 1159 1160 blah blah blah blah blah. So what I am looking at is I'm saying by department for how many employees do we have in each department? So for example, Julie on 630 of 2025 we had 180 employees. That did not include community corrections because I don't really care about not that I don't care about community corrections but they're funded with at the state level.

State level. Now if they were funded out of the general fund that'd be a different story. So they're probation is what we're told how to fund them. Yeah. So they we set them off to the side kind of the highway department too because the highway department they I think they got 11 different sources of funding sources

you know and then you got the health department with 1159 1160. So we've got you know we can isolate these areas right and then because I think what would benefit us all is to know by department. All right. How many employees? And then of the employees, how are they classified in here? So in other words, when we get done, what we're looking at is saying, okay, we got 35 KOMOT employees. We got, you know, 76 LTC employees. We got so much. And then you can look at it and say what that cost is on an annualized basis. You see what I'm saying? Because what we've got to me, you know, the approach because what I'm, you know, really trying to speak to is a pro follow a process is we have to back into this thing and we've got to understand because if you know, if we've got, you know, let's I'm just pulling numbers out of the air. Let's say it's $8 million of labor cost. But of that 8 million, 35% or Cobbot or let me give you a better example, uh, because I know this for a fact. The most expensive department is sheriff deputies,

period. Now, you got a couple of RNs sitting over in the health department that are expensive, right? Highway department's fairly expensive except the highway department, they've got their own 11 funds, right? They don't affect the general fund. They don't affect economic development fund. They don't affect Right. Probation's probation's up there, too, right? Because what to me I would want to know is you know as a percentage you know how many not only labor cost as a department level but then subcategorize it into you know how many employees do we get this because then you got that bandwidth in between that right the question are you talking about next year's salary ordinance or the one

I'm talking about we have an opportunity right now this is this is March we you know I would like us to get this whole thing done before we ever get to July. You say this whole thing. Are you talking next year's or we're working? We got to work on 27 budget. Okay. I don't want to wait until last minute. Right now we're getting we're getting 26es. This is as we do 26. We're we go okay we got to do 27 and start working on 26 27 is to actually have the salary ordinance and the budgets done the same night. Well, let's first things first.

I thought we were here to talk about this year's budget. It's on old unfinished business. The salary ordinance, the salary ordinance we're looking at is this year's 2026 salary ordinance. The changes I'm talking about are the changes for this year that we're supposed to be working through. And and I hear what you're saying and I think that's where the the missed the off is you're you're wanting to talk about next year and and it's but we've got to No, I want to know where we are for 26. And then once we once we but we once we understand where we are for 26, okay, then we can use a formula to go in and adjust 26 for 27. So we have is pretty much going to be a carbon copy of 26. Yeah. And we got to go through adjusting.

But if I hear but if I hear you correctly, what what you've done for 26 and I'm just going to pull numbers out of the air is let's say you went in and said, "Okay, we got these 15 employees with these different departments and they're different areas and we need to bump them up." So we bumped them up, but you left everybody else alone based on 2025. Yeah. So now we got to go in and kind of analyze that and say, "Okay, how do we," you know what I'm saying? We have to tweak that within about the range of an equivalent of the 3%.

That's what that's a good benchmark. I agree with that benchmark. Yeah. So what what we're shooting for in 20 in 20 for the 27 salary ordinance and budget is taking the equivalent of 3% and using that 200,000 to adjust the current FPS system to get the people who are still lagging back up to okay I think Julie has what what's right right so Julie if you got these numbers that that change and I don't know there's 10 positions that talked about it. We haven't heard anything about it. Okay, here's you. You've got your list of everybody that was changed, right? Julie has the floor. Start at top. Go.

Well, let me finish. No, I want to know what the bottom number is in terms of changes. Like, what's the bottom number? Is it 200,000? Is it 400,000? It's $276,200. Yeah, it's right here. Well, that's the bottom number. So the amended salary ordinance has all the increase deliver number. Yeah, it has all the changes. Well, that's wh this says whis that this is the 26 but here that's what we based it on. Scott and it includes the conversations you and Darren and Gary had with department. So it already includes those. Okay. I thought we did focus. Yeah.

This is the delta between those two. Right. Had we've given a 3% on that number right there, that's so $73,000 more. Yeah. It cost us $73,000 to implement the Right. Right. Right. Well, and then you and Gary and Julie had conversations with department heads. Some departments went down, some went up. And you've already updated this. This isn't the original one we saw. This is an update. That is the current with all the changes. So when you said when I read WHIS I read it's what we've already looked at but it's actually a new draft the WHIS summary.

Yeah actually I got it wasn't clear right and then I see updated or amended salary ordinance at the bottom which is actually amended with Right. And so they're named three different things but we we need to stop calling it the WHIS fees. Please call it from here on out the f FBS. So that's what that's what I want to but we're stepping out of the original which is the only thing this group has seen and this is a new whis. We don't see the original whis or fs we studied. This is a new one and I actually sent you out that is that is this that is the

already sent all of you all the new ordinance. Well, but then you've amended you know through your conversations with department heads. No, this one is the last week or whatever has it all in. This is the salary. This is the salary. When is that? When did that come out? Our last meeting or No, I I sent that to you. Jeez, that's it's been a little while. Two weeks. Oh, a couple weeks ago after you had the department. Okay.

Yeah, the department had meetings. That's why once I got it all all t fixed from what the department heads or we discussed then I sent every one of you the newly revised amendment and those department head meetings happen January. Yeah. So so and then after those so this is draft two of the salary ordinals. Mhm. This is the current even though we're calling it Yeah. three different things. Yeah. Okay. This is the current amendment. Draft two. Yeah. Draft. Right. Draft one's already been recorded. Yeah, we voted on draft one in December. This is the amendment and the salary ordinance. It says amendment.

Yeah, this is amending the salary ordinance that we had talked about implementing the fees system because we needed to do that and then we were going to come back and amend the salary ordinance with the corrections after discussing what the department has. Gotcha. That's what I should have put at the top of the paper. Amended ordinance. Excuse me. I thought it was the original and it's not. So, no, that's not the original. That is the original form one stuff, but it's not the original amount. Okay, that helps. Thank you.

You want to go ahead and go down the list of changes that were made, specific changes? Mhm. I don't really want for actton. Leave names out. Just go. Thank you. Um, let's go with the position probation. Let's just go that probation. There was a a change of 81 628 to 8920 220. There was a change of

79028 to 79 128. There was a change of 58773 to 58873. There was a change of 42 05376 to 41954. Most of those were based on Is that a sheet that could be printed out? Can you print that? You really don't want my chicken scratch? I mean, yeah.

There's no way to follow otherwise. I mean, I don't know how we follow. Wait, are you reading numbers, but I can't They don't actually add. Did you say what was the first number you read in probation? 81,000 or something. Yeah, probation. Remember, we have to go by the state what the state says. Also, their longevities were not correct. So, am I looking at this right though, Julie? Should I be I'm trying to follow you. Hold on.

The the form one the form one say the original budget submission was 277,000 and then the what I'm calling out on the right side the amended fees study is 313 that's only you know 40,000 difference but I thought you said the first change was 80. So, um, it's just hard to follow what you're what you're talking about here. Just jump right. All right. This is the state form that we have followed. I think they broke it down how we have to do it. Gotcha.

This is the changes that were made. This is longevity. These were changes in the longevity. These were changes based on that here. This one went from 42 to 41. Ours went from 81 to 89. Gotcha. Okay. That's what you were talking about. Yeah. It's It's easier when you see this paper, but And then like this one went up $100. Mhm. This one went up $100. Okay. You see what I'm saying? Gotcha. And are they going to fit in our fees point? Yes, because it's based on this is based on this is based on longevity, not the fees. Okay. The fees. Okay.

Those changes are all long longity. This is how the fees this is this is your base pay here. So then you add your longevity. These are your hourly rates. This is all in the salary orders as well. So the all those changes that you just went through are longevity based changes. All of these ones except for hers which is she went from 81,089 based on this and this is the statemandated statemandated. So we had to step out of the fees system for that one position. The rest are just longevity pretty much. Yes. Corrections. Yep. Got

except for a couple there were a couple like I said that you have all the everything in there for uh the court. Yeah, I have this one. They had her at 50 uh 04432 and the judge came in and we had a conversation and I I got my notes over there. Didn't couldn't find them at the time. Dar, do you have your notes with you? I know you took some. I thought I did. I'm wondering how we can let everybody go through this and see cuz you can't these unless they're looking at what we're seeing here. They're they're not going to follow.

Well, there's not that much to follow. I think maybe what you do is say and I I've been I've been over Gary and I No one else is seeing the three of you are the only ones that's here for basically n% of the changes were based on longevity. Yeah. And that's where I think you go through you say, "Okay, look, we had and we don't I mean, can we just to go ahead and agree? I'm trying to I mean, we're never going to get through this, but I like to summarize, but what if the council just agrees like if you if you saw a longevity variance like we just we just you just we don't have to go over it, right? You just say, "Hey, we had five variants." It's very It's a very short list of changes. So, I just I just want her to present the changes that we made. It is very It is a very short list. That's the extent of it right there for one.

Yeah. But I mean that's pretty much it for the whole other than name changes. It's basically longevity that's been so that's what I'm trying to get if if that's true and the rest like we don't need to hear your longevity corrections like it it just well there were some there were some pain like the one one the one that I mentioned in particular was the was the baiff. He was classified as based on the the baift oversees the entire security of the courthouse. Um and his pay was basically in line with the uh front security.

So that was a bump up because there was uh the supervisor or whatever was was left out of his of his job description. So his job description is based on just you know basically a security guard in the court in a courthouse. So So in that case he coordinates everything with the juries. He he oversees every bit of the So that one had to be that one had to be bumped up. There were several that were bumped down because they had supervisor in the job description when which is when it shouldn't have been. When you say bumped down, did you drop below their 2025? No, no, no. Nothing was ever dropped below. I was going to say

it was an an adjustment down from Do I look like I have a death wish? Yeah. What was the bump up for the for the baiff? Uh, let me find And was it more of a comparison to other employees, the reason for the bump or the reason for the bump was he was mclassified. He was mclassified. So he changed category. if he change categories. So any category changes we should hear about and then any like decreases maybe just you know and and again these every single change that you've made was supported by the department head.

Yes. Is that a fair statement came in and met with Julie? So no other changes have been made other than what the department heads have reviewed and accepted and supported. Correct. Correct. Correct. Okay, that is good. Except for longevity ex and that's just kind of a policy thing that we and yeah, that's we're going to have to address the longevity structure at some point too. C can can I ask a side question? Yeah. Um we have to and first of all my personal goal with this is to related to the salary ordinance.

Yes, it is. So that's in the context of the salary ordinance. I'll keep it in the context of the salary ordinance. You know, first of all, my goal is to get to the point to where I've internalized the system. So, in other words, I know it forwards, backwards, and sideways. Number one. Number two, if we create, let's say the county creates a new position. Mhm.

Okay. Do we internally draft the job description? Can we do we have the capacity to draft the job description? Number one, once the job description is created, then do we have the internal capacity to score that position or are we are we dependent upon Wagner, Irwin, and Sheiley to do that? No, we're not dependent on them to do. So, we have the capacity to score it. We we actually need to find out what how to do their grading system, but yes, other than that, we should be good.

So, would committee score it or would we as a council? We council because we are the council is responsible for labor on a committee. So now we work with the department head work with the department head like with you if it's your office clearly definitely walk worker 80% input from you on that role and responsibility of that new position. We have learned that you have to be specifically careful about how you're labeling the position. Yeah. Language matters. Yes. Correct. Okay. And some of what happened in these was the disconnect. You know, uh, WIS was just looking at paperwork. They didn't have a scope of the job. The people what they're doing. Well, they had all the job descriptions.

Right. But that's what I'm saying. They were just going by the job description. They weren't just by what we provided. So, they they couldn't make any Right. No, I know. But I just I guess because the core of my question is is that I would want us as county government to be able to handle that internally instead of constantly being dependent upon Wagner Irwin and Helium to turn around. Right. Right. Yeah. They didn't understand the difference between a highway supervisor and a parks and recck supervisor. That's the issue. Okay. when they when they ask for the job descriptions or the departments to give the job descriptions. Well, yeah, this guy supervises our our summer help. Well, it's not quite the same as supervising supervising 24hour emergency.

Exactly. Multiply classify them the same way. And this is not anything on on Wagner and Shield. It's not anything on the It's just it was we knew there were going to be it's a steep learning curve. There's a lot very steep and that there are going to there going to be changes in tweaks and it's going to be more of a as we go what is the process like you just give us 5,000 3,000 10,000 the the bay how much of a bump up oh he went from he's at a he's at a C he's at a C which is significant bump up yeah 40 what he was

yeah his base is 4516 now And what what did what was he at before? Do you still have that? I have it somewhere. You don't have to go dig it out, but Well, I thought I had Is it like 3,000 5,000? What are we? Okay. Wait, he was the same as the security. The security is whole A. Yeah. Which is 41712. And the baleiff was classified at whole A also and he is not and he went from 41 to 45. status is a lot different. 40 46 238. Okay. Yeah. Let's see. I'm going to do the comparisons of that. Yeah, it's about 5,000

of how the first ordinance was done and how the second ordinance so you'll know how much they were bumped up or how much they But that's a good example of why they're bumped up. Obviously, that's a perfect example of why they're bumped up. Yeah. And that's what happened with Parks and Rex's person, too. He was he was put as a major supervisor which which bumped him way up way way up and and so that needed to be brought back down. We brought it back down and then we

uh he they critiqued what the others were based on their job description or their how what they do at the office. Gotcha. Is there office managers a compat? I'm sorry. I'm comm your credit card. What's that? You just gave your son your credit card.

Yeah. I need to go talk. You got any cash on you? Yeah. Will Will you adopt me? I do, but I ain't giving it to you. It's my emergency fund. This has definitely been a major learning. It's huge. It's huge. It's huge. It's definitely I don't envy the next person. It's hours and hours and hours and hours of work and it has hours and hours and hours. So aside from um stipen changes you know or longevity changes you had how you know the the bay list I would say we had maybe

just go through the list of the of the job the job itself that that had any okay we had the environmental specialist at the health department they changed him up from a comma A to a comet B he went up to 20.12 per to 41 85376. Up from 39. Okay. Mhm. Yeah. He was making 39. Then the environmental specialist, same thing. They went from an A to a B and he's making they're making the same amount. 39 to 41K. Yeah. Okay. Couple.

So that's two. And let's see. Let's keep going. went to from Parks and Rex. Um, their office administrator went to combat C which put her F4 44 36432 in alliance with others at doing the same type of stuff. Okay. Like a 4K bumpish. Okay. And I think she was that's the parks. So parks and wager had the one um yeah they had the um labor. What's the other one?

Oh code enforcement. Yeah. Yeah. They moved him from they took him to a comma B which took him from 44728 64 I would just say the 44k because yeah 44k they took him down from 44k to 42k which was his form ones were 38692. Okay. So he he got a 4,000 bump but not quite as much as was originally Yeah. Okay. Right. I probably should have already read this but on the longevity Mhm. Is that still the what is it a buck for every year$100? Is that still the same? Yeah. Well, it's no longer right. We are going to be updating that at some point. Yeah.

Oh, wait. It's correct. Correct. We did away with siphons. Are we still doing longevity or no? At this point, we are, but it's going to be it's going to be changed. I thought I thought the fees system included that. Not longevity. No, not longevity. No. There's part of the FPS system where you can do a time a time in service kind of like yeah kind of like what the military does. They have pay grades like an E when I got out I was an E5 at six years. So your E5 you've got one year, two year, three year, four year, six year. Yeah. So there's the pay grade and the time in service, right? Our time in service is our longevity,

right? Yeah. Now, let me throw this in because it just came to mind. This is my little pea brain. What a a a concern I have for us as a county and let me see if I can language this the right way. You're so humble pea brain. I mean, this is just Well, I'm kind of a pe you know. Yeah. And so anyway, so my little pee brain is that in my head is it says, okay, a couple years ago, maybe trying to remember, I did I sat down and did it and it was like half, not quite half of the employees in the county have less than five years. Yeah.

Okay. And then when I looked at the employees from say, you know, 15 to 20, there's not very many. Of course, the minute you start looking at that, then you get into Perf and then I start asking, why are we paying into Perf? Because we got this massive turnover, right? Mhm. So to me, how do we This is part going back to our initial conversation, okay, that we tabled. Okay, the story problem is all right. Turnover is extremely expensive. Mhm.

And what I've heard over and over and repeatedly is that our turnover, part of it has to do with we're not competitive with regards to other surrounding counties, etc. Correct. In compensation. Okay. That's what the FDA

So, I'm going to say some of that turnover is due to that. Some of it has to do with culture. So, for example, the, you know, the county council because that's the only thing I can speak to, you know, follow through with us being extremely organized, doing what we say we're going to do, blah blah blah blah blah. So, there's a cultural issue and then you got compensation. So, the the the story problem is is how do we shift and implement the fees system, right, to where we are now at that 50% target, right? Will that help us reduce the turnover? Because on the other side of the turnover and I don't mean this and please you know YouTube okay this is not a derogatory statement all right is that you know when I ran you know I had at one point in time in my life managed had a couple about 150 employees and there was a certain department in there to where because of the nature of the business you always had turnover. So, I was constantly having to recruit, recruit, recruit, recruit, recruit because I would recruit people that were new because I wanted to train them myself, right? Because if you bring somebody in that's been in a different county, they bring bad habits with them. All right? So can we increase you know and move towards this full implementation of the fees system but at the same time hopefully that will reduce some of the turnover because we can be in a position to recruit a far more effective employee who actually wants to be here.

That's one of the goals I'm saying is that the whole point of all of this? Well, I'm just I'm just lang I'm trying to language it because that's what's going on in my head because that's why we had the urgency to implement. Yeah, you guys did fine. I have no pro issues with what you've done. You're this is not a critique of what you've done. I'm you know because keep in mind I'm you know I'm very you know in my mind I'm looking at 2050 because I'm old and I know how fast the next 24 years are going to go by.

And so you know let's look at 2050. Are we making progress right to reduce the turnover? How do we increase productivity? Because if we can increase productivity, we could potentially be able to reduce headcount which then lowers the cost, right? But to be able to reduce headcount, you got to increase productivity. But the challenge with that that's completely interrelated in your recruiting and finding the right kind of people that want to be here and want to work with and kind of go and move around you know that you know so it's it's a complex story problem but I just want if I don't language it that's where my head's at.

I think that makes sense to me goal. I think that's a great goal and I I hope that we can maintain employees, but you know, statistically they're saying that people only stay in jobs five or six years, which is kind of sad really, but you know, I think county government is a great place to work. We offer many opportunities that other corporations don't. So, I think that's a great goal.

Yeah, you're right, Judy. It's the turn of the the the because the other the other Judy, let me throw this out at you. You know, my understanding from what I've been told historically is that your local government uh I own a construction company and so my wife comes to work for county government because she's coming to work to get the employee benefits and people would stay for a long time. But now, you know, that's the baby boomers, the the well, whatever that what's the people grandma and grandpa's age because I miss them. They're not around anymore. They had a different work ethic. Okay. Right.

So, people people born 1935 and back, you know, I miss those generations. Yeah. Cuz now we're stuck with the baby boomers. Um, but this new generation coming up, you're right, that they they're going to they're not going to stay very long. And if that if that fact pattern is accurate, then we get into then it comes back to the Perf thing, which is 700 grand a year. Yeah. You know, so it's just a complicated fascinating story problem. All right. All right. I agree with you. We got about 15 departments to burn through here. Let's keep moving. Do what now? What do you want to do? Let's just Maybe it's not even that. Let's just get make sure we get through all the changes. That's why we're here.

Okay. So, we have a change in clerk's office with longevity went from 100 to 400. Okay. Is that it? All right. Next, uh we have uh public defender. We had a name change. public defender name change. Okay. Anything else? Nope. All right. Yep. Uh we had a dollar amount change in health department. A couple dollar amount changes in health department. What were those? Um we went from 3970489 to 4185376. 39K to 41K. Mhm. Okay.

Here. which if I get a couple thousand. Yeah. And then we went from 39 same 84 just 804 89 to 41 couple thousand. Okay. That was the health department. Okay. And those were on the health department side. Those similar changes. What were those? Do we know why they were wanting that? Uh yes. And it's just stuff that shows up on Facebook. remember health department. Yeah. What? Yeah, it was the health department. Um, I think it was they they went to

Well, let's get let's come back to that. But yeah, you're Well, I have the rest of my notes downstairs. I thought I'd put them all in my binder. I checked it off, but we'll we'll come back if we can. Uh but the let's go to the clerk's office. We did the clerk. The clerk I mean the courts courts we did the bayiff. Okay. The court but uh one of the courts was 50,000 50,000 who went down to 48,000. Okay. And that was because of a job cl job the uh uh job description classification that bumped yes that particular position over

the actual and it was inaccurately that was that was dropped back down to be in line with correct with where it should be. Okay. And then now probation. Um so is that all for circuit court? Yes. Okay. Yeah. There were three three changes total there. It was one was the baiff. The other was the and that was that one. Yeah. I don't remember what the other one was. I don't have any other ones on there. Here's this one. Unless it was longevity. It might have been a longevity. There was an office person that she wanted to that's um an office person that bailis

well that person is tell they bumped somebody down $3,000 on the heard yes she was but they didn't go down actually go down yeah she didn't go down what she was artificially overinflated by the fees system. Yeah, they put her like the chief deputy and she wasn't the chief deputy. So, we kept them saying she went back down to Yeah, she didn't go down. All right. She didn't go down from where she was. I'm not going to get I'm not I don't have a death wish. Actually, it sounds like instead she I really don't like she went up less. Yeah. Is more accurately.

But as the years go by, she's they go up the if they get 3%, they get 3% till they get where they're supposed to be. Okay. So, okay. Got that probation. Okay. Went from 81 to 89. Okay. What's going on there? Um, state state requirement. Gotcha. Okay. And and longevity. And longevity. Okay. Um $100 in longevity. $100 in longevity. Uh and then um too much in longevity. So, it was reduced down to one of the Gotcha. Okay. And they do not want an office manager for community instructions. Okay.

Have my notes. Then we have another one. Well, I already did that. What department you got there? Hang on. I already did that one. So, I'm going to this one and have we've done the planning, but I'm going to go over it again because you don't have it. Uh, we took a a person and went to a comma B, which went from 44 to 42 with still having a significant raise. Okay. Recorders department. We took the uh from 41 508 to 41756. And that was this tiny difference between the two. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So, we made them the same.

Gotcha. Um, and then I do see Well, this is where I I honestly don't think that was a correct on I think for one or on the um because he they should have been the same. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, I see where I'm looking to. Go ahead. Yeah. Okay. So, um then parks and wreck um we went from 40 to 44 That's pretty much the changes. Okay. Got them. Have more changes on that, but that's all I see right now. Um, can I interject on the health department because I had stepped out.

Yes. Um, I believe that with their certifications, you know, we had those trainer positions. Oh, you may be right. Yeah, it was those training uh cert certifications that they had to get and then we had promised 39 to 41. We had promised them we've already got it and that is where we are. We're good. Cool. All right. Got health department, planning department, parks and recck. What else? That's it. Those are the only changed departments. So I have clerk, recorder, planning, circuit court, got another one,

probation, public defender, parks and wreck and highway or I'm sorry, health department. Eight departments prosecutor or was that just the prosecutor have a change? I don't think so. I don't think he had a change. We were just making the only thing I did was put on there um how much was what that's how much was paid cuz I didn't have anything written down on prosecutors. I think we were just the only thing I did was verified what the countyy's paying and what that grant's paying. Yeah. And talked about their grants. Their grants their grants are going to have to go away. We're just gonna have to roll them from the grant

back into the general fund because the grant the t the the time spent I know I've already talked to Ted about it. There's two grants. Yeah. Right. So they've got to go away. They go back to the general fund and then they just I get it. Okay. We'll also have a a new amount that we're going to have to have to do an additional appropriation shore up shore up these accounts right for Yep. for those. I actually got two reports meeting. I should have the correct amount that we'll need to shore up those accounts.

Yeah. The other thing too, boy, I I just uh be mindful of um cuz this last three years has been a extremely valuable learning experience that it's next to impossible. I could never go to IU and learn what I've learned in the last three years. But it's been a 10 on the frustration meter. Okay. Yes. Um the uh but I had an interesting conversation with a prosecuting attorney that because of his certification whether or not they file now but it was this

felony charges Chad against someone's getting the same

because they don't have enough money in their budget. And I boy, I tell you what, when he told me that, I just sat there and went I'd never looked at it from that perspective before. And at this specific situation is that this individual that they had charges, they brought charges against, um, they were going to have to hire a full-time interpreter because they didn't speak English. And this and it was a question whether or not he had enough money in his budget to cover that cost. to be able to file. And I after I hung up the phone, I sat there and thought personally, I want my prosecutor and law enforcement and our justice system to have enough money so they can do their job.

Yeah. Period. Yeah. It's a priority. Yeah. Right. I mean, I don't know how you guys feel about that. Sheriff's department is I mean, it is it is the safety department. I know. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I don't want to have to worry about somebody stealing my stuff out of my garage. Residents are residents through their tax money to be insured of a safe environment. Well, that with, you know, within reason, right? So, public safety public safety is pretty much number one. Paramount has to is it? I mean, is that It should be. Yeah. I mean, I don't Well, you're going to be biased as hell because of your background, so I'm not going to ask you, but yeah, public safety is always the the priority. We got one more change. One more change. No, I have several more. Several more. Okay, let's keep going.

Okay, so this is emergency management. It went from 56 to 58. And then I just found another thing on that for Corey cuz it was Chad. So it's now from because of Corey's longevity, you have to put in is now 59. So we've got a a right. Good deal. Okay. Thank you, Emma. Then we have um in the sheriff's department they had taken one of the sheriff's deputies and moved him from America B to America A uh and moved him down from 64 to 60.

Um and that is not my doing. That is their doing. It was just a that was a deputy role. Okay. Mhm. I think his role changed so they moved him took his gun away. Demoted him wrong. Okay. 64 to 60 guy. And the prosecutor came in and his secretary doesn't want secretary. He wanted her to be an office program manager. An office and program manager. And then the victim's ad which is a change we had made to that before. It just it didn't get reflected on what we had. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So, what was the change in pay? There's no change in pay.

No change in pay. No, just take down. No change in pay. Okay. I'm going to head all my own field. Okay. Take care. Be careful. You guys later. All right. Victims advocate. Yeah, that's um on the salary at 41. She's actually at 44830. She has 1,600 as longevity. Where are we again? Sorry. Victim's advocate. So, under the prosecutor. Okay. Yeah. That That's the one that's split from 41,

but she still has $1,600 in longevity. She split from the grant and the and Okay. Okay. Now you're done. So 1, two, three, four, five, six already know about Caleb. She took him from a a civil pole a to a civil poll. Yeah. So we had 11 departments that we just reviewed. One of them didn't have a pay change. It was just uh actually that was well there's two of them and the prosecutor. Yeah. Yeah. Public defender just had had his name his name changed as Right. Cory went to the prosecutor's office. So,

so there there really wasn't a lot of changes made and over those 11 departments in my department. I have one in my department. I don't know what happened. Actually, the only thing I did was put their their stipens on there because this is their last year for them. Period. They will not there'll be 12,000 back in the budget next year. Say that again. Would you detail it for us? They were given the you guys gave them stipens based on the person. These people will no longer be there. So those stipens will no longer be there. Yep. They'll be

because of the book they took on extra work spread. The bookkeeper went away and spread out over everybody else. That's one. Well, we'll have Is your office fully staffed now? No. Okay. Can I float an idea? Almost. Can I float an idea? Yeah. Or just float a thought. Go ahead. Keep in mind I'm big picture, right? I want to see big picture. So when I came in here, all I wanted to see was okay, you only you you increased at 276 total labor cost is what you did over 2025. And but if we'd have done a three, which if we hadn't done the factor valuation, odds are high probability, we'd have done a 3% cola. Mhm. Okay.

So, the reality is is you bumped it 73,000. So, whatever. Not a big deal. Now, here's what I just calculated. Just I'm in way down in the weeds on this. Okay. All right. If an employee, let's just hypothetical, is it $20 an hour? Okay. And we've got to get that employee at based on the factor valuation system to 25. So, if we can get them from 20 to 25 an hour, now they're at that 50% external, right?

Okay. And we're going to use their 3% cola concept, right? Takes eight years. If you did the 3% COLA every year compounded on $20 an hour, it would that take that employee, it would take us eight years to get the fees system. Well, and then and then in eight years, but in eight years they'd still be way behind because somebody else has gone up higher. Exactly. Okay. Now, so I'm just going to float this out. All right. Is that you know because keep in mind I'm very process driven on my thinking. Okay,

Julie, hold on. I got the approach Darren Wright down because I'm kind of focused on how do we approach this thing, right? How do we how do we how do we how do we how do you stall it

is a you know you know to me we've got to have 25 26 full-blown implemented here's the overall cost big picture right then now it gets to well how do you get there well now we got to go in and bust it down by departments and by classification to look to see where those bands are right and then we got to look at the delta between where are they today versus where they need to be, right? And then do we go in because I think legally we can do this is we draft up a complete in writing approach, right? Get it in writing and where every year we this is what we're going to do and we may have to go in and wait some positions may have to be an increase at six. I mean, we're going to have to factor in those percentages.

Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Well, that's what implementing the FES was, right? We got we got to factor and but we got to look at it not only as a department, but we got to look at it individually to be able to factor in how much of an increase do we get and then how much of an increase is that annually? How do we absorb that into the general fund and some of the other funding sources? And it's not that some people unfairly went up more than other people. It's that the people who went up more started out at a level that was grossly That's fine. That's fine. That's That's fine. I don't have I'm not I'm I'm not worried. I'm just I'm I'm stating that for the record, but I'm not worried about

the past. I'm worried about today or not worried. I guess it's to say my focus is moving forward. How do we move forward? And how do we, you know, if we make a mistake, fine. We make a mistake, we learn from it and improve, right? We don't, right? So, I just that's where my head's at is trying to looking at it and you start out big and then you got to drill down to kind to run the math to see how and see what I don't know. Do we want to take five years to get there? Do we want to take three years? What's how do we get there? How do how soon? I would love to. You got 4.3 million in the general fund. Fine. Just go in there and spend it. No. No. Well,

I think that's why they were doing I know. I'm just being a smart Alex. So, yeah, I'm just being sarcastic, but yeah. Well, let's let's Jim, can you can you uh shocking? Yeah, you can say that quietly. Let's do this. I'm just being sarcastic. YouTube TV. Yeah. Let's take the Let's Let's focus on 26 salary ordinance here and the difference that we're now seeing. Let's add the benefits to it. So, can you get me the 38% three and a half million, man? Now the 30 the 38 like the increase that we're seeing here. Give me the benefit piece of it. The 38% add fully burdened to our cost increase here.

Well, you got to ramp that up. Just take that. Okay. What's the number? What's the 26 number? I got it right here. Is this 7 million? So 7 058632. Going to round it up. Right. Times 1. Add the DOC's. You're 9.7 million all in. Well, this is just gross. Just big picture. It's let's not get in the weeds. Let's just big picture. If I take 7 million, gross it up 38%. But see, now that's not really fair because we may have we may have 180 employees, but not every employee state is on group medical.

I was actually just talking about increase. I was just focusing on the increase in our budget that we're seeing here and adding the benefits of the increase on the total on the 7 million. Yeah. Some of those may not be a an increase because we already pay health insurance for them. They're just getting 2,000 more. So, if we use 38%. I'm trying to use We can I can ask we can add it in. Perf taxes. Okay. Hang on a second. Let's Yeah, let's just Don't forget you don't take when you're using these numbers. Don't use the DOC's typing. No, no, no. You got it. Right. Right. Right. Right. But a good round number. Just a round number. And do we pay on the stipens? So Scott, let's here.

You've got Julie, you got 7.65, which is your FICA, Medicare and Social Security tax. Okay. And then you got 11.2, right? Mhm. That's 18.85. So at a minimum, we can hit it at 18.85. Yeah. I think that's it. No, no. You got you still have unemployment. You have workman's comp. You have life insurance in there. There's some there's some nickel and dime stuff that you add in, but it's not it's not the big one really. The big one, well, actually the big one, think about it, is Perf. Perf. Yeah. It's 11.2%.

Okay. So if I take if I take 7058631 right times 108 1.1885 yeah it's 8 8 $8,389,000 8.4 million round 8.4 4 million. We can't do it that way. So, what you were looking for, Scott, was the was the all-in cost of the 276. Yeah. Just the increase. Oh, on the 276. Just the amendment that we are talking about today. It's 380 with all Okay. with all of the payroll taxes. And that's number 328,000. Yeah. 328.

Okay. So, that's the number we're trying to solve for today in some ways. Was it 1.38? Huh? 1.38. 1.38. No, I just used 18.85 which is 7.65 plus 11.2. So 320 exclude health insurance. What' you get? I included the health 328 grand. Okay. So 328 is the new hit on the budget. Right. That is reflected by these amended numbers. Correct. Which puts us at And Darren, you're going to get mad. Is this salary ordinance related? No. Yeah. Salary ordinance. Oh, everything's interdependent. I mean, there's nothing that we don't do. I mean, everything's connected to this to this to this to this.

So, there's not, you know, we don't have I mean, before you before you jump on that, anybody have any more concerns or questions about the actual salary as it is right now? No, I don't. No, I don't. I think we beat it to death. Yeah. Scott, did we get all your questions? Oh, I think we burned through the 12 department changes that the council had not heard today. We all know what those are now. Um, we now have a number associated with it. A total number of increases. Yeah. The only thing, Julian, I'm going to email you later when I'll sit down, take my time, and and I'll email you and then if you guys don't like it, you tell me to go pound salt. Okay. Whatever. And then I'll go away. I won't I won't bother you. Well,

yeah. Right. I won't. Before we get to that, we have we have everything. Are we ready to vote on the salary ordinance at our next regular meeting? Didn't we already approve the salary ordinance? Yeah, this is the Oh, and this is where we're going. We're going to be done with the 26 salary. Yeah, I'm okay with it. I'll I mean, I'll support it. Okay. And then we're ready to start. Yeah. Because now that I understand what's in here, which you did, I'm Yeah. I just And just I cannot from an ethical standpoint vote on something you haven't seen. that I haven't had time to review it and understand what the heck I'm putting on. I just can't do it. I can't I want to have That's why I want to have So I'll just abstain and go vote.

Yeah. So we've had 12 department. Right. Yeah. So I'm No, I'm way good with what you guys have done. You've actually done a good job and I appreciate all the hard work you put into it because you put a lot of work into it. We take about a 10-minute bathroom break. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll email you. But like this this this this the 276 206 and keep in mind I'm you know I'm just email because my first question what percentage of that is the general fund. You see what I'm saying because what I do in my and correct me if I'm wrong and push back but here's what's in my brain. No the general fund there's 20 there's some other stuff. I'm gonna go out with him.

So, he's got Don't finish your sentence so I can read you. No, I I'll email this to you.

Waiting for your point. Come on, your highness. Would you please? We got to get back to the office. I mean, are you at a menu? You order lunch for No, I'm trying to shut this down. Hey, can I take a Can I have a question? No. Julie, are you back to official meeting? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Back to official meeting. Yeah. I and because I do not understand this at all. Okay. Okay. And this is kind of off the subject a little bit, but when we you got net assessed value, right? So because the assessor does that, right? And the GIS people. So they they do this the total total value of all the real estate that's privately held

in in Brown County, right? Then when you have like the the health department, they've got 1159 that 1159 is funded with property taxes, I believe. Is it not? Yeah. Part part of partially partly. So some of the revenue that comes into the because I don't understand the funds and the revenue and where it all comes from. I'm starting to learn on the general fund because I'm starting there, right? But here's what I don't know. If the if the highway if the if the health department let's say they just man spending money like a you know a sailor in San Diego on shore leave right

do if if if if they're taking more of that property tax levy then does that decrease what the county may get you know or for example Hamlin Fire Department I think they get property tax because they're a taxable entity right their own levy They have their own le and I guess I guess my question what I do not understand there's there has to be a maximum property tax number right because we're at the max levy and then from there it's all split out and it's split out it goes different from there the h the Hamlin fire district is their own levy above ours they do not

so they don't if they spend more money and their levy goes up it doesn't take away from our levy but the health department would take away from our levy wouldn't I think to a point it would. Yes. Okay. Well, they have their own separate levy, don't they, Judy? We have our own se they have their own separate levy. Absolutely. So, um but you know, they also take in their fees and those kinds of things, which is a balancing act between the right. But then that goes into miscellaneous revenue, doesn't it? Well, the general fund goes into the cash goes into the cash balance and that's how they balance their their their funds. Okay. Yeah, we don't need to blate. I just had a quick I I I do not understand that

and I would like to know understand that and I thinkward council has tried to hold it around 15% too. So well don't you got too much to do right now. I know. So don't worry it's just it's not important and urgent. It's important not urgent. Okay. So I don't need to solve it today. So just it's just in the back of my head. Right. Okay. Yeah. We can do this offline. Thanks. Sorry. Go ahead. You had something else you were going to No, that was it. I think I think Susan was going to talk to us about voting virtually. Maybe she's still around. Susan, are you still there?

I am still on here, but I I have to be honest, I haven't looked it up yet. I didn't know you would be done at 11:17. Yeah. And Darren, Darren, on that with Susan listening right now, I will throw this in. Okay.

What I would And you're the person that racks up the hourly labor cost for lawyers, not me. If you don't want to do this, then don't do it. Ordinance versus resolution. Ordinance, as I've looked it up, trying to study it. I think I understand it. Not sure. Ordinance has legal standing whereas a resolution really does not. Ordinance should be used on any additional appropriations of which we should vote at a regular meeting.

Yes. Resolution on the other hand that I'm going to use the example that could be we've got a department that wants to take a line item that begins with a three and they want to transfer money out of that threeline item to a fiveline item within their budget. Well, that's just an internal transfer that requires our approval because the departments can take a threeline item to another three-line item and move all the money out and push it down here and they just tell the auditor, "Hey, that's what we want to do and there's nothing we can do about it." But from going from a line item three to a line item five, that is when a resolution would be used. Is that a

because that's a that's kind of an internal transfer. It's not an additional appropriation. So I what would be beneficial for us going forward is to have have you know if at your request to have Susan come up with a one-page something simple ordinance this is where it's to be used for resolution can be used for this. So it just clears up any misunderstanding going forward. That's all. Does that make sense, Susan? It does. Yep. I'm writing notes. So So is that a fair request or I just

Good. Okay. And also on ordinances. Um uh Julie had a a formatting question on our ordinances. the way the way we uh the way we construct them where what was your concern was that we we get just a a block of what's

Yeah. So we don't know where it goes. I mean it's just basically it's almost like professional services. Well, okay. What professional services? So what you'd like on the ordinance is spec specifically where where the on the ordinance ordinance itself specifically where the money is coming from and what line it's where it's going.

Okay. So I mean not just just in this one little category you put like let's say we're having we're asking for five different amounts of money but so we add those amounts of money together because they're all in this one little thing. So, we put that money in there. Well, I don't know. You know, I've got to go back through the ordinances then and figure or not the ordinances, but my request and figure out how much is what that went into that and who which ones it is. So, I would like Yeah, because a little bit

to add to that and I'm very very very very grateful to you for the email that you sent out. I believe it was last week with the supporting documentation meeting this stuff that you required that department to fill out these forms that went through and explained every additional appropriation they were requesting. Okay. The only thing is is then what I had to do, okay, to make sense of it is I had to go in into Excel, take those and then bust it down by [ __ ] by general fund so that I could look at the total. Are you with me?

And this is where you know when I'm telling you the red ink thing is then I use the math to calculate where we are right now based off the budget that we passed. Okay? And then just to clear things up on the red ink, the challenge to me with this this budget process is that if the math if if the math going into the budget isn't accurate, then you can take this and throw it away because it doesn't mean anything. So because everything in here, the budget is all based on assumptions. Every bit of it is, right? It's a full and actually I I if if I was, you know, king for a day, I would get rid of the word tell the DGF that get rid of the word budget because it's really not a budget. It's a forecast for next year is what we're doing. We're having to forecast receipts. We're having to forecast dispersements. And the challenge with those forecast, if the assumptions aren't accurate, then the whole budget's worthless. Right.

Period. Yeah. Okay. That's all I have to say about that. Susan, the question on on ordinance, was that did it did we explain that well enough? Yeah. Um I mean I can I can try to see what we can do with that. Um, I mean, generally speaking, the DLG GF when you upload that to gateway, they just want to know what's going in that right

line. It was most it was Yeah, it was mostly though for for Julie's tracking efforts in the auditor's office where where they actually have where they they actually take the money from a line. Yes. She was wanting she she was wanting the ordinance to have specifically which line it was coming from and what line it was going to.

So on the emergency transfer ordinance or emergency transfer resolutions which are the transfers that come in front of you, right? That don't stay in the auditor's office and are just within the same major budget classification. These are the ones that Jim was talking about. We're going from a two series to a three series, right? Different budget classification on those emergency transfer resolutions. Those are identified on there, right?

Yeah. So, additional appropriation is just the DLGF wants to know what you're additionally appropriating to that line item, right? So, you know, your forms from that Julie has, right? She has these forms in the auditor's office that she's prepared your additional appropriation request. you know, has, you know, when it's gone in front of council, when it's been sent to the state. Um, I mean, generally speaking, like everything coming out of of general fund, I'm not breaking that down by department because the DLGF doesn't care about by department. They just care about what you're additionally appropriating to the general fund.

Right. Right. And and I might be because I'm I'm rephrasing what Julie asked me, so I may not be asking it right. It It's fine. We'll just We'll just work with what we have and go on. But Okay. Are you okay with that? Yeah. Okay. Just work with what we've got. Okay. Thank you, Susan. Anybody have anything else? Well, uh, can we take a few, we got, you know, 30 minutes, 25 minutes left, uh, and just talk about April, May, June.

The the um budget schedule, budget hearing, the schedule for the year for the budget. Well, what I'm I get right now I mean the to me in my mind is that we've got April, May, you know, we've had today's meeting which has been productive. the the the of of focusing best continue this conversation so that by the end of June we don't have to worry about labor cost for 2027 we've solved it okay

Mhm. with this fees system. That way then when we come in and then you know go through the process of reviewing the form ones we don't have to address that we can begin to focus on all the other things right because on the form one there's four categories that the DG sets up right so you know how many rolls of toilet paper you know copier paper all the you know all the other stuff and because that way then because if we can use if we can use our time for April, May, and June. And then by the end of June, wrap up this labor cost, this fees thing to where we're done with it. We put it to bed for 2027. So we know exactly what we're going to implement in 27 budget. Then we can focus on everything else and then get the October the ordinance is done and the budget's approved and we just move on to 2028.

Yeah. Ed, Ed, Julie and I have been sitting down working on the on the scheduling out the budget process going Well, my hope is including the council on that. The talking about the council's budget process. Yeah, we're not finalizing it. We're putting together a timeline that I'm going to bring to council. I'm not setting the timeline. It sounds like a committee, you know, Scott putting together auditor information for her timeline. I've had communications with Ed. Okay. So, he's keeping me comprised of what he's doing. It's not Ed that it's just talk about the budget timeline for the council that people sitting here.

No, that will be council driven. But what Ed's what he's doing is putting together statutory statutory timelines and we're not and what I hope he's able to do okay is based off Ed's professional expertise as a CPA because he's basically a forensic accountant

okay is that and I'll just use this I'll share with you you know he you go into a manufacturing facility and you know they have 500 100 employees and you find out that he he gave me two examples. He went in and found out that for the previous year they had purchased I think 8,000 10-in crescent wrenches. Jeez.

Right. Okay. And then on another case, he went in and found out that they had, and don't hold me to the numbers, but let's say they had, you know, 70 welders. They were buying 250 to 300 welders jackets, and they were buying the most expensive, right? So, they had money going out the window that nobody even nobody was tracking. So based on what I understand that he's doing is he's going in you know and he's an expert on Excel he is

he's I know he is and he's pulling the data out of Lao and hopefully when he work does that does his magic he can find areas to where we can go that's expenses out of control how do we rein in that expense and that's what he's doing yeah he's working with the auditor on auditor specific stuff and I've been sitting Yeah. Yeah. We got a $250 an hour guy in there doing work for proon doing great work. It's not who I'm worried about. I just want to make sure the council is of its timelines and included in discussions about its budget responsibilities. Yeah. Everything I'm coming from that last year and it didn't work.

No. And that's I am not going to do that this year. What's going to happen? Everything is coming to council for council to decide. Good. Council is going to set it. But we we need to have some spoonfed I know discuss and we're going back to the main participate. Yes, there's going to be here's what we're doing. That's why I said committees are gone. There are no committees. Council is it is the committee. I'm tired of getting taking the blame for last year. Okay. We're not quite done with the other I'm over that. We're still Let's move on meaningfully. There were three other people in that finance commandation.

Yeah. Forget the little groups together. Yeah. It was not. We're not that big of an organization. No, we're not. No. And you made that point. I thought that was excellent. Yeah. Congress has a bud budget committee of 38 people. We're seven, you know. Yeah. If we can't solve between the seven of us. No, but we can work on improving our reporting. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I just don't as a body of seven, we don't need to, you know, see that we need committees. It's okay with me. Yeah, let's let's do it. All right. Anybody else have anything? No. Motion to journ. Second. Third. Cookie. Cookie. Anyone?

No. Thank you. Thank you. Trying to quit. Trying to quit. Really? Why don't you eat it? I need extra. She wants to keep that boy figure. Yeah, that girly figure. That's right. Girly figure. You know the fact that girly figure, dude. I'm down. I mean, I've lost 34 lbs. Okay. Yeah, but you're you're trolling. You're trolling. You're trolling for chicks. I'm not either. He's tired of being fat. He's highly motivated. Yeah. I watched one of those YouTube videos and saw myself sitting over there. Yes. And I looked at myself and went, "God, what a fat pig.