County Council - Regular Meeting

When you say when you say were who who's who were evaluating that people not not this guy they're all ready to go and then they show up so the commissioners will will hire a new stage why do you make this I'm asking questions and there's no I'm asking I'm simply asking if you don't like the questions you know don't answer them You just said I'm asking Well, you just you just said the commissioners have authority over the contract, right, guys? That would imply for this.

Well, I'm asking a question. I don't agree with everybody thinks you can see my life. Yeah, [laughter] but I joke. Do the best you can with what you got. That's That's correct. Good morning. Good morning. Are you sure? No. Okay. [laughter] Why don't you guys come down here so we can No. No. I I want [laughter] to see the bullets coming.

I dug down. Jim's big. I get on the way. [laughter] Shoot me in the back. [laughter] Yeah. Shoot him in the back of the head. Send me to warning young man. My my best cop friend and you'll understand. Put that gun in his mouth. There it is. I got it. That is harassed that poor guy to death. He killed the judge's stuff. This is amazing.

Shocking. If this is a little bit this has just come out there that this what you want. Yes sir. Must be a big [clears throat] meeting. Did you eat your peppermint? All kinds of people. Let's start the meeting. Say the pledge of allegiance. Aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [cough] [clears throat]

His purpose of this meeting primarily is some budget questions we have and how to resolve them. And Julie and Teresa have gone through a lot of this and we're going to let them clarify some things for us. and Teresa, since the judge is here, we'd like to address her issues first. Yeah. Sorry. No problem. Okay. So, um this goes into the Kum Cap account that a lot of items were moved into and the judge, Judge Mary, you had um four items moved out of your judge. If you'd like to come up here, you're welcome to. Whatever works. You can uh

yeah you want to sit down as you see or whatever you want to do either the mic or sit down it's your call I'll just stand

okay so um did she bring us those copies okay in kumcap out of the judges um I was going to but out of the judge's uh department out of the general fund Um, we moved, not we, um, office equipment and fixtures for $800. Furniture and fixtures for $500. Um, books and other law books for 4,000 and lease agreements for 1300. Those are all now in Kumap. So when you do that billing, it would be the same account number that you're used to using the fund number will be 1138 and then the account line and then all zero. That's how the billing will go for those.

I'm sorry. All zeros at the very end of it. Three zeros, four zeros. We'll send an email to show you the exact account. That would be better. All right. So, that's the only movement that was out of yours. The other Do you want me to go through probation while you're here? Well, I guess I just kind of confused I guess that these matters have always been out of the court budget. Are they now being paid by the county general is what I call it or

No, it's the cap fund. So, um, RED Financial when they work with the Stop me if I say something wrong. So, RED Financial, um, with the council figured that we [clears throat] weren't spending Kumcap money is the way we could. So, it was an area where several departments, any furniture, fixtures, equipment are now all coming out of Kumap Cap. You know that Okay. I'm sorry. I'm speaking more. Yeah. Okay. No. So now

it frees up your budget. It's just not going to hit the your department, the general fund. It's going to be out of a more restricted fund that frees up more county general dollars. So do I still sign claims? Yes. Just they come out of it. It's just going to be built out of a different fund.

All right. So, I guess my question would be that when I got a copy of the budget that Julie provided me a couple weeks ago, I would have liked to have known so that I didn't have this look to say, "Hey, I've got a bunch of zeros here. What am I going to do about these zeros? why I wasn't called or emailed with this information so that I didn't have to go through some motions to try to figure out why do I have zeros here and is this unfunded as opposed to just an email or a call saying hey you're not zero we're just going to move it you need to pay out of this fund so that's I I think the information exchange was deficient and I'm not I don't know who that came from. But I would have appreciated as a department official to have that communication rather than just getting an approved budget with a bunch of zeros in one.

No, you're right. I take responsibility for that. I dropped the ball in the communication process. I apologize for that. Okay.

And if I can bring up another matter regarding communication just while I've got the state. [cough and clears throat] Um, I know that the salary ordinance is a big thing and I know it was a big process, but when we went through the process of going through with each employee, doing the detailed job descriptions, sending them off to the consultant, I frankly expected that department heads would have been provided the opportunity to have some input because what the consultant did was look at information and provided what I consider to be recommendations. And I think that they were important recommendations and this needed to happen. But I our department heads are the people that know what the job responsibilities and duties are. My concern is now that I have a recommendation as I understand it for a part-time employee to now make $4 more an hour than my chief court reporter who has been here for 30 years who has much more significant and important job responsibilities. So these are the that that's just one example. I think court services can give you examples, but I feel like we were not afforded the opportunity to look at those recommendations and see whether they interpreted the information correctly that they provided. And I recognize that it should, in my opinion, should have been a balance between these recommendations based on what this consultant has analyzed and the boots on the ground for these offices that actually work with these individuals. I'm not saying that that part-timer isn't good and doing a wonderful job. I'm just saying that that might create some issues amongst my people. But my problem is that we were not afforded that ability to have input.

Was the department heads were not in included in dividing job descriptions by wish? Oh, we were the job descriptions went in. Right. Right. And but those are those are paper.

Here's what we're finding out. I'll explain some of that. We're finding out. We went to the factor evaluation system with WIS. Some of the wording in there. If you throw in something, we're not sure all the words yet. Throw in a a word like supervisor. Boom. goes way up here. We didn't know what the implications were. We didn't find out what they were in the pay scale until you say that we throw in supervisor. We didn't get by. No, no big deal. But it's not it's they they go across the board and we have to learn to appreciate that. Now, that's why in our salary ordinance, we said, okay, we're going to pass it to get the basis in the whis in the factor evaluation system, but we're going to amend it because we don't we have to get very familiar with what these things are implying. So, I don't understand if it's going to be passed then those individuals are going to start making the funds that are approved or

No, we're going to we're going to have to amend it to you. Do you have any input on that, Julia? So, what's going on? I do. I'm actually working on going back through um taking into account that we like you said, we just realized that the job descriptions are not uh matching what we need them to match. So, we're going back through. We're looking at all over again. And then we'll do an amendment to the salary ordinance I got. Um, and the job descriptions. Yeah. And the job descriptions. So, what's next week look like on paychecks is my question. It's pretty much going the same as it is right now or as it was last year until we can get this figured out.

And will there be consultation with department heads or just some? Yes. Okay. Yeah, we to close the loop on the on the job descriptions because we wrote them up in theory, nice words, but the implications that the system factor evaluation system put on them financially is something we weren't we have to close the loop on and come back and say these words don't work in here. Okay. Well, I'm not [clears throat] sure I completely understand all of that and I don't know that I need to, but I would just, as I said, really hope that there can be some input from people who actually work well, with these individuals to make sure that there's

some parity, I guess, is what I would say. Let's do this. Let's let's go ahead and get some some clarity on that with the pack committee, the personnel advisory committee, which is Gary, Tim, Judy, Judy, and Julie. They've been overseeing the the salary process. Can we get your commitment to send out the salary ordinance to every department head today and ask for a response from them by a certain period of time? and then plan on the council reviewing those or the pack committee. I mean

this has been kind of in your late so just let me finish and then the council can come back and kind of get recommendations from the pack committee directly with heads able to be present and our financial adviser and our attorney which neither are here right now for some reason. So we get this right. My suggestion would be to before any of these department heads and elected officials leave today to go ahead and schedule those meetings next week. Don't don't let anybody leave today without Well, not everybody's here. So, just the ones that are affected. Not every Well, I think every department head needs to review the salary ordinance and their budgets. Well, then can we at least set up a meeting those meetings? Yeah, that's what I'm

Well, I don't know about in this meeting. We got a lot going on. But yeah, schedule. They're reading the salary ordinance now. What's that? Salary ordinance isn't like it was. So they Yeah, they need to see it. I mean, whatever it is, they need to see it, but they they got to know how to read it. Well, then yeah, that's part of the pack committee's work. And

this is a my concern. Um, we sent out these job descriptions and Gary, you mentioned they're in theory nice words. No, they're not in theory nice words. They were descriptions of the jobs that the task that needed to be done to perform the mission. Uh based on that description provided by the the supervisors and the department heads based on that description that went into a classification system. Now we're saying oh whoa you know we're not getting the pay levels or or whatever the equity and pay levels that we that we were expecting. Different problem. Now we're back to the 35 pay rate kind of thing. All right. So now we're saying well there's some key words. Well, if you're supervisor, you're supervisor. If you're manager, you're manager. Now, we're saying the department heads didn't understand what a manager was or supervisor was. So, when we talk about don't talk about theory in nice words. Those are written descriptions of what they needed to have performed to meet their mission per per Indiana code, the statute that governs their department. So, don't think it's a gee whiz, let's just have a couple meetings and and it's fixed. It's not it's not that's not going to fix the problem. So if the job discriminances aren't accurate, you just we just we have a red.

I guess my point, sir, is that these [clears throat] writing a job description is is is it can be difficult. And between that and whether or not this company interpreted the information correctly and whether or not their recommendations are consistent with the responsibilities, I think is something that should have been looked at by people more closely as with close knowledge of the situation.

Absolutely. and and I I value what they did, but I just think it should have been a mix between was some input. [cough] Whatever degree [clears throat] of input the council wanted to give, that's up to you, but I'm just saying. Oh, she's right there. May I say something? So, did you not get those job descriptions back after they were done and review them? Sure did.

Okay. Okay. So that's when that those corrections let me speak those are when those um corrections should have been made and then sent back to uh WIS because they have evaluated those based upon those questions etc. And if you found that there was a discrepancy at that time that's the time you should have sent that back in.

Ma'am I'm not saying there was any discrepancy in the job description. What I'm saying is that the interpretation that is made by individuals who have a system that they believe to be correct and I don't have any doubt that it that it is incorrect but there should have been in my opinion some input from the people who actually have the most [clears throat] knowledge about what these individuals do in their job and the council could ultimately decide that they wanted to adopt the recommendations in whole, but I just feel that there should have been some input by the department heads before and some knowledge shared about what those recommendations were. I I'm not faulting at all the work that was done. I'm just saying I expect that there to be some collaboration or some input from the department heads. No,

I agree with you. And the issue Judy or Judy, what you're talking about is when they when they sent it back for review, my question is is was the salary associated with those that wording involved there? Was it provided? I don't think it was. It wasn't. It was right. It wasn't. A category was created with your new system. That category holds with Bloomington, Columbus, and everybody else in the whole state. Problem is is we have a little different interpretation of it because of our limited resources.

Right. So, you're all kind of correct in everything that you're saying, everybody, all of this. But if you change those categories, if you go through this exercise and change those categories, that changes the job description, and that's where you have to hand it back off to the commissioner's office. Right? So the people who got the review on the on the job description did not know the implications [clears throat] as to salary. That's what we're finding out happened. We made an assumption. It was wrong and we need to review that and know what the implications are as to salary. When when you guys got I wasn't involved in any of this. I'm just asking questions. When you guys got those reports of those categories Yeah.

Did you Was that a work session? Did you How did you guys go through that? The pack committee? No, we there wasn't a pack committee. I didn't come here. No, it wasn't a pack committee. Uhuh. We never seen that.

It's my It's my understanding when WHIS came here. I'm sorry if I may speak. It's my understanding that when WHIS came, they explained that everything that was in those job descriptions was looked at via verbiage and also salaries with the jobs in other counties. So if you have a court reporter in one county, it's they look at it in another county. They even look at large counties and small counties. So they compared it with not I mean with several counties to make sure that they are like the ones that are in other counties the job duties are very similar that type of thing and they based that upon that I don't know how say so those those that money factor system is also paired to those other counties as well. So, you know, if we get back into changing it because so and so is doing this and so and so is doing that, then we're going to be back into that 35

system, right? And and then it's useless. So, I feel that can we look at it? Sure, we can look at it. But, you know, we chose to bring this the lower people up and and that's what we have chosen to do or hope to do. and then eventually it's going to level out. That is my understanding. That's what we chose to do and that these were scrutinized pretty heavily and looked at by WIS and we took their recommendations.

I understand that. I think that the issue with Brown County is that we have a lot of people who are doing more things in their job description than larger counties. Mhm.

And I also know that the individual I'm referring to that got a significant increase, when she asked me about her job description, I said, "You are a unicorn." Because I don't know that any other county does their program in this fashion. And so I don't know that we are an applesto apples county, right? because of the many different things that our employees do and the multiple hats they wear because there are less of them in each office. I know for a fact in court offices that the the things that for example my office assistant [clears throat] uh uh receptionist does are far greater and more varied than other counties because they have somebody that does the jury administration or they have my baiff does double duty. You know I that's all I'm saying is that I think we have some unique circumstances because of our uh small offices. I agree. That's what in the job description.

It wasn't duty. These are the things they do.

Everything was put in. What I'm saying, ma'am, is I'm not faulting your work at all. I'm just saying that some additional uh insight would have been help input. I'll put it that way. would have been helpful in making a decision that kind of met with what what the responsibilities are visa v other people in the office and consistent with their job duties and responsibilities as it relates to others. I could go into some concerns I have with the court services, but I don't want to get into those right now. I think that those can be addressed differently, but we've got people who do what I consider to be more uh uh I don't know what to how to phrase it exactly, but work that is more significant and more responsibilities and duties as related to other individuals that I I don't think there's a parody there. Right.

And that's my concern and and people who work in those offices know these things. That's right. That's what we're finding out. The wording does not play across the board. You're not alone there. Okay. Right. Well, I don't like I said, I don't want to belabor this point. It sounds like you're taking some going to take some measures to include you in the loop as to how to resolve that. All right. Well, I appreciate that. Yeah. Do you want to hear about probation the request with them? That's what I'm asking for so you can tell Jennifer. Uh, yeah. They're not here at the time. Okay. Okay. Are you Who's next? to be how we run a mess. I didn't know it came on the list, but she's [clears throat] going to She brought it to me. She sent it yesterday.

Not over. Oh, I do know about that. Um, okay. This is um jumping a little bit. If you have the this Julie Could you hand this out to everybody on this this report right here, if you go to um different community corrections [clears throat] [cough] or

Well, while they're working on that, I think we need to go ahead and finalize what we are asking the pack committee to provide all the salary ordinance information to every department head.

Schedule a time to get together with any department head that wants to join that has an issue um and schedule that in a way that the council can then hear recommendations from the pack committee after that review. What I hear Julie is the PAT committee will identify the process going forward and then we'll have the meetings at the council or joint meetings with the commissioners to discuss the detail. We'll design the process the change in the process what's need to be reviewed. That's it. That's the responsibility of pack committee. Uh any further discussion for that is in open public meetings.

Yeah. What I would like to do with the pack committee is I think there was some miscommunication or lack of communication between the pack committee and council as a whole. Uh the ball or some balls were dropped uh where you know the the pack committee came up with something. Didn't really discuss it with the entire council. Let me stop you right there. That's not accurate. No, it's not accurate at all. We never ever had I'm their secretary. We never ever had any meeting to [clears throat] do with anything with the salary ordinance at all. Not your salary. The council wrote the contract for WIS. I That's right.

That's right. [cough and clears throat] I brought it up many times during council meeting that we needed to have these job descriptions looked at. I did it over two years. This had nothing to do with the pack committee. No, that was all in council. Yeah, it was something else. Never mind. Sorry. Okay.

Okay. So, in the commissioner's budget, we have a um line item for $30,000 for um juvenile detention. Um in the county, when something happens with juveniles, we do not have a detention facility for them, and we um have to house them in other locations. I can't find it. I'm a little nervous. So, let me I'll give you it's in your report. Where is my juvenile detention? It's in68. Um, we requested $30,000. The the report that you've just been given, Jennifer provided with us. That is historically how much money they have spent annually. We were only granted $300 from council for this line item. And we are requesting um through this whole process that that $30,000 be put back into the commissioner's budget.

Um you were allocated $3,000. It's $3,000. $3,000. 30,000 to 3,000. Okay. And if you have any questions about That's what I wanted to ask while she was here. the detention comes about and the reasons for those. I mean, I can answer those. Yeah. I don't think I just there's these are needed funds. Yeah. It needs to be put back in. It's an IC code. I mean, it needs to be put back in. Yeah. I mean, I mean, the county is responsible for these fees. Yeah. And we expect

they are generated by individuals [snorts] who are due to their detention. Um, then the court makes determinations about whether continued detention is warranted. There's a lot of criteria I have to go through. Um, and it is what it is. You can see it fluctuates greatly um depending on what the juvenile is involved [clears throat] in. And that's that's that's that's

judge Judge WS um in on September the 11th, uh Gary Hwitt and Kevin Patrick were in my office and we had a meeting and I brought this issue before them. All right. And there were four line items in the commissioner's budget um that we discussed. Kevin Patrick agreed. Gary agreed. Do you remember the meeting that we were in? You were in my office on September the 11th. Yeah. Okay. And so the three of us discussed it and and agreed that we would cut those four line items for a total of a hundred grand.

We have no authority to do that. And that excuse me we have no authority to do that. Kevin Patrick says much also. I talked to him when you threw that out in a public meeting. He did not authorize any any more than well was aware that that had to be discussed. That decision is made in a public meeting. So you can have as many meetings as you want off the rope off the record conversations you want to make it legal.

Tim Clark. So wait a minute. I thought I was under the understanding based off state statute and we created this finance committee for the first time ever in probably in the history of the county and we had we went through the budget and made changes just the same as we made changes and we had several meetings so first of all deal with the judge the judge's issue not I apologize we need to put that back in the budget judge straight straightened out here so we can move ahead on that. She doesn't need to be involved in our processes. As long as it's funded, we're happy. Right. So I Okay. So we we have plans to fund that. Correct, Julian?

When when I spoke Yes. When I spoke with you guys, our proposal that is in that number. So that will come out in the wash, but I did not want her to leave without talking about that if you had any questions for her. I brought it up. So, council, I think, you know, it sounds like the 30,000 that came out through those conts to be put back in. Everybody agree with that. All right. Add that to our additional appropriation list for 2026. Thank you. And that's the 30,000. You mentioned 100. We'll come back. Well, there's four line items that are be going to be addressed. You know, it'll be 27 because we've already got [clears throat] 27.

Anything else? I don't think so. We're good. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. I'm You're talking about probation or that was probation. That was probation. And that is an O68.68. What is that? It's our commissioner's general. Oh, okay. Okay. Who else do you want to deal with next? Is anybody on a timeline that needs to go quickly? No.

You want to do parks and wreck because it's hairy. It's gonna do that. You want to come up? Parks and wreck is um that is on page 10 of this report that you were given. I didn't see that in your report. Is that a different new item or Okay. The report you sent out yesterday like have that up here. No, we do not. You say it's on page 10. Yes.

Is this correct? What's up on the screen? Yes.

Quiet. Um I Brian may want to be involved in this conversation also if you want to. Kevin talking about CBC or Yeah, it's a CBC. Oh, Kevin. I thought it was Brian. Sorry. You can tell them I pay attention to your quality of life stuff. [laughter] Okay. I know basically what you're talking about.

Okay. So, this was just through my um going through the when I discovered our stuff and the commissioners, I started looking at line items. I noticed that a whole section of this fund was missing. So, all of this was moved into 1127. And I don't I think Jackie there's a question as to whether or not salaries can be paid out of that. I don't know the ordinance you have set up for [clears throat] that. I don't either. Do we have an ordinance?

There's Well, everything we do is by the state the state statute. So it's I see

chapter 46. Basically, it's for the promotion and and development of tourism. And it doesn't say anything about salaries. It's all in how it's defined. And state board of accounts can, you know, they don't really have a definition. No one has a definition. It's all in how you do it. What we look at from the CBC standpoint is if this was going to happen, salaries have to be direct directly directly related to tourism promotion. So, you know, do they have a marketing person um within that? What is what is tourism related in the budget out of parks and wreck that can [snorts] be paid for out of inkeepers tax dollars? You can't just push the whole parks and wreck thing over there because it's not 100% tourism related. So, um,

so we moved $182,000 out of this regular budget regular budget and put it into, um, it's a CBC, right? CB I I'm speak You need to correct me. I'm pretty sure that payroll has not moved people out. Nope. So that means that [cough and clears throat] currently you're going to be writing red ink because you have no money in that in our normal parks and recck fund. So any bills, Jackie, this is where I I don't know what to do. I don't I don't know how to fix the problem because they don't know where they're going to have to pay their bills. They they are not in our budget.

The only the only fix is an additional if they're if it's to be paid out to county general. The only fix is an additional. So, but I I thought it was moved to inkeepers tax. But it can't stay there. Why not? What he just said? Well, you didn't say that. Yeah, I didn't say it couldn't stay. We just have to know how much of it is tourism related. So, how are we going to figure that out with parks and rack? Because like Michelle just said, you don't have a marketing person that is well and and I think there's a lot of thing and I think Scott and I have had this conversation is

we need to sit down with Mark and with Michelle and figure out what is tourism related, you know, I mean, okay, they're taking care of the trail. How much of that, you know, can we cover? You know, I mean, there's parts of it that could be done with the approval of the whole CBC. I'm just speaking my part and you know the convention visual [clears throat] commission would have that say along with the county council. So it's not just something we can't just pick a number out of the air and say okay that's what it's going to be. Yeah. I'm not sure what question you're raising or what's problem you're citing.

Well there's $182,000 is what she's saying has been moved to from the general fund to 1127 and not all of that could stay in there. Well, I'm not sure that's true, but I think what you're pointing out is uh and I pointed this out when the council moved this amount several months ago. You pointed [clears throat] out that CBC was still working through what they wanted to do with those tourism related funds and how they wanted to fund them. and the council decided to move forward with I believe Gary's suggestion that we figure that [laughter and clears throat] out which here we are

it's what here we are and um and so um you know there's [clears throat] no we've what you know [cough] not sure if you're pointing at particular issue you're suggesting certain things can't be paid but that's not you know no one's verified I think she's saying the whole 182 20. So you're raising a question about what the council did. We've been told nothing. So at this point, we can't tell these individuals where to pay their bills. We can't tell payroll where to pay out of. So Julie, do you want to help her understand how that should happen? I mean, isn't that kind of Do you know?

Well, well, there's two two things here. One is the immediate payroll. The other is what's what's tourist related. And we would need to sit down and Brian has made up a that is she's actually got this up. So anything that comes out of there has to work has to basically be tourism promoting tourism. Right. That's that's a question that has that's a CB. That's all what it is. So basically your fixing porch or stuff like that could be considered. Well, but I think there's other things in their budget. There's a lot of other and probably people in their budget y that aren't 100% aren't 100% tourism. But yeah,

we could help with but we have but there again we have Jackie we we've been through that five [cough] let [clears throat] Brian speak to I I think to be more blunt than that you can put whatever money you want into 1127 [clears throat] all day long. Three out of five people have to approve the dispersement of that fund to pay whatever bill you want to come out of that fund at the end of the day. Meaning the CBC board to committee. [clears throat] Well, the council reviews and approves the CBC budget. So, you're not out of that loop. Okay.

All right. So we've had lots of discussions with CBC, you know, JC Jimmy back here, quality of life committee, Gary Darren about how in terms how that happened and that, you know, it needs to be fixed and it kind of happened, you know, unexpectedly from my perspective in some ways in the group's way and so perspective and so um we need to figure it out. Yeah, it was not part of our original form one and so well changed after your form one can be changed right by the but I'm just saying that was not part of our you know so when we were going through the budget process it wasn't discussed with

so let's do this afterward wait a Jackie was about to say something we have Jackie in here we don't have her in here very often she has something to tell us I'd like to hear yeah I was just I I googled this because that's the quickest way for me to find it and it it says the funds are restricted to tourism and related development purposes and generally cannot be diverted to fund unrelated general government operations like county general or city employees not involved in tourism promotion. It's got to go towards tourism. We we all understand that. We know that needs to happen. I mean I you know just need to do it.

The finance committee would be the place to do that. [cough] [clears throat] Kevin, um there's 173,201 in labor cost that are in the CBC budget [clears throat] and what I've listened to is the the big issue is the labor costs. Is that a concern that you Well, I think it's the whole thing. All right. You know, it's not just the labor. You got 173 2011 in labor cost. Total supplies there are $5,850 and then the um the total other services and keep in mind the fair board is in the CBC budget as well.

Yeah, that's something that came out of including the fair board and if we get into total other services that's 51,961. All right. And then lastly, there's $650 for mowing equipment. So, you know, Julie, would it be um should we as a council move that all back into the general fund? I believe so. So, it needs to happen. I think we have to. Yeah. Okay. Right. Help us understand that because none of the things that Jim listed promote tourism. But,

let me say let me say one thing real quick. I want to run over the the parks and wreck out at out at Deerrun. We have the we have the disc golf course which is can be used for nationwide. It's been used for tournaments. It brings people in. It has been stated I think Jimmy you said you have noticed an increase in overnight stays when there when there are uh disc golf tournaments. Uh we have the pickle ball courts going in. We we have a pump track that brings people into the county that just brought people in from north of Indianapolis.

Deer Deer Run is a tourist destination for some people. It is something that brings people into the county. It does enhance and promote tourism in the county. Um, I mean, I know there's an argument. We can get into all the legal ease of of that as we go through this, but Deer Run is more tourism than than anything. C, can I just thought, let me finish.

And hold on, let me let me finish something, Judy. um the upkeep, the labor that goes into that, that park would not exist and would not be a destination without the director, without the maintenance crew, without the people to to keep it up. So that labor cost involved at Deer Run and Parks and Wreck is maintaining and promoting tourism. It's not promoting. What I wanted to throw out was it's promoting having a place for people to come to. If we didn't have it, there would be no promotion of of that as a destination. So, I mean, can't have one without the other. I want to inter Judy was about to say something.

All right, Judy, go. You're absolutely right. And to justify that, I know it would take a little bit of work, but you know, when they're out mowing, what percentage of time are they mowing? They're obviously doing that to keep the pump or the the tracks open, the this disc golf, etc., you know, there's percentage of time that's going to be sent spent on tourism and you can I would think that you could justify things that are being done out there in percentages being spent on tourism. It's going to take a little time maybe to figure that out, but even a portion of those people's salary doing mowing or the bookkeeping part of it, the the whole scope, it's going to take time to figure that out, but you can justify it and keep records of it. I mean, it's I know it's going to take a little more time and effort, but you can justify it so that you're not going to get dinged by the state board of accounts.

Yeah, I don't think that's the question we're talking about. You're talking about how to pay them. I think is which is an appropriate question. All the money that what Jim said all the money that was moved out of there. So I mean we you know there's a pay period tomorrow. Uh these funds have been budgeted out of that. Can I ask a question? What money goes into the conviction? Is it all inkeepers tax? That's it. All in keepers. Where does the money from the [clears throat] music center? It has its own. Yeah, there's separately.

Yeah, Kevin. Um, and Julie and Teresa and council. Um, this parks and wreck 231662, you know, I'm going to, you know, needs to be moved back into the general fund. Number one. Number two, Kevin, if you think back here, you know, several weeks ago or a couple months ago, uh the issue was brought up about the CDC having governing documents. Do you remember that? Council passed it. All right. Now, the purpose for those governing documents is because based on a conversation, a 90-minute conversation that I had with Eric Cook and a two-page questionnaire through Eric Cook's office that we sent to the Legislative Services Agency with the General Assembly to get into the ambiguous code, this the state statute for this subject matter, right? and and and in addition to that, I also had a conversation with the state board of accounts and the primary takeaway from that, you know, those conversations was that Eric Cook explained that when they pass the legislations at the state level, 90 the 92 counties all want to be able to maintain their autonomy. So when they draft that legislation, they do it in somewhat of an ambiguous way. And so at issue is is that the if you all will draft a document to define what that couple of sentences are, right? You know, to promote tourism, economic development, right? Define that in the context of Brown County of what that means. Because here's the issue with the state board of accounts. All right? I called

the state board of accounts and I asked the person point D point I said we want to take $550,000 and I want to pay for the ambulance service out of the CVC and keepers tax money and she came back and said well you cannot do that and I said well that's fine can you submit something to me in writing showing what you have in writing from a regulatory standpoint point that speaks to what are the prohibited transactions from the state board of accounts that they will or will not allow when they come in and do audits. And her comment was is they have nothing in writing at all on prohibitive transactions. So, an issue is is if you will all take the time to really wrap your head around on how you want to define that statute so that the CBC then has a guideline that you all use when you go to do appropriations every year because you're going to have over $2 million a year coming in. And then on top of it, the council has regulatory oversight over [cough and clears throat] the CDC budget. And when I look at $1.7 million in appropriations out of the CBC, but I don't have any criteria or factors to go by to determine, well, is this good or bad? I I don't know. So, we don't have anything in place that says specifically this is how we're going to allocate that $2 million every year and this is these are the factors and the criteria that we're going to use in making determinations on who gets how much money. And we do this in alignment with how we've defined the state statute in the context of Brown County. All right. So to me

on that, Jackie, that's what I was saying originally. That was my first question is what does the original ordinance that set up this say? That was my original question. We don't have anything documented on this at all. There's nothing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a there's an or there's there's an ordinance saying we we implement, [clears throat] you know, from years ago back when when this when this the state co when the when the [clears throat] state code became part of Indiana law, we we had an ordinance that instituted that that created the CBC. Yeah. Right.

And instituted the tax. But that based on Kevin, I think you told me at one point, you know, back in ' 86 when Andy Rogers or whoever it was that put this together, I mean, your revenue was 40 grand a year. So the original budget, now it's 2 million. And so now the CBC, when I think of the CBC, I mean, it's you guys are have the ability to grant money that far exceeds what Brown County Community Foundation has the ability to do on an annual basis. It's a lot of money. That's a lot of responsibility.

Who's walking away with what assignments to correct fix this? So, you have you've mentioned a couple things. You've mentioned moving it back into the general fund and you said look at the ordinance and rewrite it. Whose responsibility is that going to? That's we're working on some government governance documents within the CDC. Yeah. Come back to the council. Also, so there would be two issues so that we can take them back into the general fund.

I see there's two issues. One is the salaries and that may change in the year, but the other is is that we would have a meeting, council would have a meeting with CVC and CVB possibly. You've already presented a well you presented something about what's tourist related. CVB doesn't have to be in it, but to decide if there's a percentage that can be I think we have to sit down with parks and rank and we have to determine within their budget what percentage of of every line correct can we move and how do we do that then

and and quite honestly the easiest way is for it to be back in the general fund and then we all we do is authorize the transfer of X dollars to cover those Absolutely. Jack's shaking her hand for keepers tax. We can write him a check. But we can write him a check. I mean that's what I want to say. I mean well that's let's let's figure that out. We don't have let's figure that out. We can figure that we can figure out that. I'm just saying but that's

so I mean that's what a broader group of tourism folks seemingly supported yesterday in our conversation. council Pat Commissioner Patrick was there um tourism leaders you know and and we said hey let's get together with parks and rec should have done the first time and fair board and even highway or commissioner Patrick has been working on this you know uh the covered bridge the salt creek trail the overlook pioneer village these are all tourism related

currently expenses currently funded by taxpayers. And the idea here is to offset some of the tourism burden on our property taxpayers by contributing to those tourism related expenses that taxpayers have traditionally funded and giving that funding, you know, [clears throat] another life for hopefully public safety is the council's priority. And so we can do that. We can meet with those people. Um, but I think the question you're actually raising, which is the appropriate question, which is, is there a problem with paying parks and wreck tomorrow? And I'm asking Jackie that. Is that a problem? And Julie, you have to pay them even if I

corporation goes in the red. The law says you have to pay them within 10 days. Well, right. But I mean, would we pay them out of the currently budgeted amount or out of the general fund and and just replace? That's where you're going to put them in the long run is what I say. Yeah, you would pay them where you paid you're gonna pay them all year. Okay. So, Julie is okay writing those out of the general tomorrow until we get this and then we can get the issue resolved. Well, those same line items are still in the general fund for parks and director, are they? Not correct. So, you're just going to write a little bit of red ink until we get it appropriate. Don't worry to clear it up. We got so shouldn't be a big deal. So, do you need an additional appropriation from us to do that?

Ultimately, yes. Let's add that to our list. parks and receted for the amount of parks appropriation, but there's no concern about this is more of a technicality of how this carries itself out once we get a paycheck. No, we don't want we don't want you to either. Yeah, [laughter] I don't want to do that. What other other parks and wreck? Did you have [snorts] other thoughts? [cough] What do you need for me to help? I I do. I'm not done with parks and

um keeping in parks and wreck. You the commissioner's office with doing an ordinance for the tower monies. We stopped that process when we seen that you moved all of this out because it would it wouldn't have been it would have made sense to do an ordinance when it was putting money in a different account. So, we are going to move forward with that ordinance coming out of the depositing it into the general fund for parks and wreck. I'm asking. Wait, is that I mean that sounds like what? Um the tower money should be deposited into a non-re Yeah, non-revert. Yeah, nonreverting account. You approved that a couple meetings ago. Yeah, I thought that was already that's already done. Ordinance isn't done,

but I never got to read the ordinance. That's what I'm talking about. So, commissioners need to wrap that up. Will you email me? Okay. Okay. So, we'll work on that and get that done. Okay. Got a question, guys, on chapter. Is anybody looking at revisions of chapter 14 of the inkeepers tax? And I've talked about this before. Typoo county u is is a pretty good example of how they distribute that revenue from the inkeeper tax. They have a quality of life category as well. Um ours is very bare bones. I I'm Has anybody looked at that on updating that for that chapter 14? Is there any effort going on to do that? In what way? It's been a while.

That solves a lot of problems. If you had a if you had a quality of life uh group like Typoo County has in our ordinance, this problem goes away because you define what quality of life is and you're doing it now. So just look at you go out and look at the IC codes. Every county has an inkeeper tax has their own specific code. Some re Tim what you're recommending is that the the Scott could get a hold of Dave Hall or Eric Cook and we go and ask for that specific state statute that speaks to Brown County to have that rewritten. Well, you guys need to read it first.

No, I know. I've read it. I've read it. I've read it. Before you guys open up a can of worms, the inkeepers tax, remember county still has its own statute. We're the only county that really gets to have its own. So, we get to really kind of define it ourselves. So, we need to work on getting that defined. Now, if you decide in the end that you want to go back and have this amended at the state level, we need to make sure we have the exact verbiage we want to say. Yeah. because otherwise they very well could screw us right when it gets down to it. And right now we're we're open to what we do. It's all in just defining what we're going to do.

Right. And Kevin, the way I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, that is 100% the CVC's responsibility. And the county council has no statutory authority whatsoever over the CVC board. The only statutory authority that we have is to approve your annual appropriations. Correct. Yeah. Correct. And appoint members. Yeah. And appoint board members. Devoid of that. This is your bailey wick. The CBC's, you know. And I think we can come to Yeah, I think you can just work open up and I've read the tip one and it I mean there's ways we can do that

internally without the rigid rigidity of it because quality of life. Absolutely. get some language in there that you can live with and we'll pursue that'll be and you don't ever have to talk about this better. I I don't think so, but your deposits will continue normal your um reports do and we'll get you guys. Thank you. Um is the same thing with while we're talking about this surprises to hell. fairgrounds.

Yes. So, okay. So, that's another 35,000 was taken out of the commissioner's budget to go into the CDC. And Jackie, is the fairgrounds considered um I I guess it depends on if you rent fairgrounds out periodically for campers to come in and park their campers while they're in Yeah, they do tractor shows. To me, that would be Jackie, there are things that happen at the fairgrounds that could be tourism related. Yes. Well, when we're writing a check to the fairgrounds for $35,000, how much of that $35,000 is tourism related?

Correct. Because if I'm saying that's your at your attorney's opinion, right? So, you need to have a similar discussion with fairgrounds parks, right? Well, we need to see their books, too, because we don't know how they're spending that 35, right? They need to distribute it appropriately. Right. Can can can we just agree to move the $231,662 which includes the 35 grand in park in in the fairgrounds back into the general fund until this issue gets resolved? Not in it entire vote today. Huh? We can vote today. Yeah, I know we can vote, but I'm just Yeah, but we need to draft the the resolution to do the appropriations.

But I'm just saying to there's a lot of money questions. I don't think from a CDC standpoint we're opposed to right doing any of this at a level. It's but it's got to be determined and we got to figure out what that is. Yeah. And can I ask a question on the C legally per statute? Do the five members on the CBC board have a legal fiduciary responsibility? Yeah. See, that's why this governing document is so important. Absolutely. Absolutely. so critical to cover yourself.

Yeah. So, I'm going to propose that we take this the third the whole thing that we moved out of the general fund, put it in the CBC, including including the uh fair board and get it back into the general fund until the CBC addresses that and gets some resolution on this and gets it in writing. It should be a priority. A huge priority. Yeah, we need It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. Jerry driven though priority. All right. Yeah. Now, do you guys have your own legal person that you work with? We've been using the county's attorney. Okay. So, Susan Beavers. Okay.

It's anything they're going to have to It's going to require a financial report. If they get anything from Keepers Tax. Yes. So, they'll provide a financial report. CBC board would have to provide a financial report. Yeah, makes sense. CVP [clears throat] one couple things to think about. Um if one want a question is it do do you want your operating expenses to be dependent on tourism?

Um I I'm asked it's a rhetorical question. You can think about it. Well, but hang on a minute. Let me Can I just respond real quick with my immediate thought that just went through my head? The general obligation bond when we when we you know, we wrote a $4 million four-year general obligation bond for capital improvements and the language in that note that, you know, it the county cannot use that money for operating expenses. That's right. Okay. So if I use that as a benchmark, then my thinking is to kind of and I'm just thinking off the top of my mind, so bear with me. The thinking is is the inkeepers tax money should not be used for operational expenses for county government.

Correct. Yeah. I mean, that's my rational. I'm just first time I've ever thought about it. So yeah. Yeah. Um because that gets right back to the governing document. But let let's even say that let's say that half of the fairgrounds was used for or half of the parks and wreck was tourism. We come up with some some language whatever and we determine half of it is is but you have a five member board. I'm not going to be on forever. Nobody nothing on forever. There's going to be new people coming in eventually and if it's on their budget because they are looking they're looking at what's the highest and best use of the money. We have to be good stewards,

right, of the money that has been collected. And it may come to a point where, well, it was a good idea back then, but now parks and wreck is not quite as touristy as we thought it was. And then it's an emergency because now it's being pushed back on the on on the county government to to [clears throat] take out the shortfall. Just a [snorts] flaw. Yeah. But that governing document has to be anything that the county does to me it's a living document meaning that we can we're going to have to edit rewrite edit rewrite edit rewrite. The CDC really needs to get that governing document put together define what things are set before we do anything else and that has to be

yeah the only thing I would ask where I get I've had a few conversations in the past with other council members on this subject matter. Uh to me when you get into you know ambulance services you get into you know sheriff deputies dispatch um you know the there there's when we get into that public safety where I get stuck on public safety is that can you have a thriving tourism sector and have not have public safety. What would hap like for example what would happen if if all of a sudden for whatever reason rumor mill ran rampant and the word got out don't go to Brown County because it's dangerous right it's dangerous and and so wouldn't that have an impact on how many people are willing to come down to Nashville and Raven County because we don't have that public safety uh in place to make sure that we can provide ambulance services you know we can provide to help take care of the tourist.

I have some links to studies I sent out in that email. Yeah. To me's there's a a safe destination how it impacts tourism. I mean it does and and it does. Yeah. And to me it would be, you know, I can make that argument and then if I come over on the other side of that argument and try to attack it, I really run into and I'm open, you know, how could how would you attack that? So no, public safety is not a part of tourism. And so I it to me as you write that these are this is what's going to be so difficult for you all when you go to write discovery document you know it's not just a black and white no it's not there's a lot of gray area there is right yeah right it's a difficult subject you got to make sure right right yeah

an example of that state put put new stoplight out at the entrance to the park they call traffic control device we provide traffic control to tourists right what's the diff so those are the blur that have to be resolved. But the same token, when you're talking about ambulance service, if you got one, maybe two ambulances available and you've got a big event where there's hundreds of people, thousands of people in the park, [clears throat]

Joe Bobbed out out here in the country has a heart attack and he can't get an ambulance, that's impacting the people that are supporting all of you so that you can all make a living. I think it's about time that we start thinking not just of you folks, but the people that actually live here. I I get the whole thing about the whole economic development, but the county is not only safe and you're you're we're liable for the people that live in this county, the con our constituents. We're not we we're not obligated to just the people that do the economic development. We're we're also supposed to be providing for safety. And if we're taking away from safety so so that that everybody else can have a good time, that's inherently wrong. Inherently wrong. Another another point of that that I found out yesterday that blurs that is is that when we respond to a tourist [clears throat] home, it is [cough]

it's a county residence. Right. Right. But it is not we're not servicing a county resident. We're servicing tourists. So these are things that are I think the argument should be put on pause until we get the data to support what we want to do going forward as far as that goes. But that's not something we need to look at as far as a governing document. I would like to reiterate what he said. I don't know that it was caught. I think it's very important to watch what is put into when it comes to salaries, what is put into that convention bureau. If down once something gets out of county general for any period of time, it's hard to go back.

And I think that's what he was trying to say. We need to be very careful about what we move out of county general because it could be a day where tourism just falls apart, right? And you should have a regular review on that because proportion may change. It also could be that we have more regional tournaments here or something and it grows. So one way or the other, but even if proportion changes in a year that it drops tremendously, can we get it back in the California general? Yeah. The idea is to protect those not those long-term expenses. We need to be very careful pulling them out of county general. Yeah. So, we want tom

we want to safeguard those and accentuate those kind with with these additional knowing we can get volunteers. Jim, back to your point earlier. Um, and I I have I have pushed for that that we're we're careful on what it it's strictly focused on parks and wreck and the f you know like like you said operational expenses of the county at all. None. I do not want to try I do not want to get into where we start intermingling that. I want to focus strictly on deer run parks and wreck and the fairground because that's the only aspect of this that it really is tourism. Well, and public [clears throat] safety, which we've had that discussion on. So,

once again, we need to get our our CDC documents in order and make it an extreme priority. Mhm. And then we can take the next steps. Yeah. Have fun. Jim, back to your comparison with debt service and inkeepers tax. I mean, if if you follow that line of thinking, the CVB would not exist. It's mainly operational. All the marketing, all the stuff that's been done over years. Well, let me finish. Okay. All right. Go ahead. That's operational. So I don't and I don't know why you compare it to debt. It's like a weird comparison. No bondkeeper tax. Yeah. Like weird comparison. Well, no. No. And no operations would eliminate CVB.

No, right. But but hang on a minute. The CVB fits I mean it fits like a glove in the whole visitor center promotion because the CVB is all about promotion of tourism. The CVB was created to promote to promote all of their so the CBC easily fits within the definition the tax. We're going we're going to move on from there. We'll resolve that with some meetings to set up to do that.

Okay. So, there's quite a bit of homework for all of us to do in parks and wreck. So, we'll move on from that. [clears throat] Um, I'd like Eric has some things going on. So, we'll bring up highway next. Jackie, this is needs your guidance. Well, I think I think the restricted stuff is fine. Okay. So, I think I found everything. That's fine because that's says restricted. So, that stuff should be in 1176. It's just a The only thing I haven't seen is covered 1134. I scroll through here a quick I have I can't see it anywhere. What is that? 35,000 30,000

It's in there, isn't it? Somewhere Eric the cover bridge fund um that you had asked for $30,000. Well, no. Uh let me hang on a minute. Proposed um it it appears the advertised budget was for $30,000 and we approved it. Okay. So, you have you have the $30,000 see this paper? Well, I've got it right here based off of this report. This was the actual adopted budget. Okay. I don't Can I have I can email this budget to you. Yeah, I can. I've got it. Or anybody else on that, J? Uh November the uh it's it's November the 17th. So, this is the actual adopted budget. I have the PDF. Can you please?

I certainly can. I'll email it to anyone that wants it. gateway. Yeah, because I know I know why mine was confusing because I had all the individual funds taken out and we went to one fund in 1176. I think it'd be better if Julie printed it out of gateway because that's where it's actually that's its final destination. Okay, keep in mind the gateway and this should match. I know they should, but gate gateway is the government. No, I know. I got copies of gateway here. Mine look just awful because I have four four accounts in one. I'll email it to you when I get to the office. Okay. So, you're all you're completely good. I think I'm okay. Yeah. I think our confusion was it looked like it was taken out of 117 then it was put in 1173. It wasn't.

It was just moved from one fund number to the restricted the one fund number that we want. So, $25,000 for Culver. It's in there. You have the ability to move your appropriations between the two. Mhm. Uh [clears throat] 1173 and 1176 throughout the year without council approval as long as you're moving it straight across and the sum of the two do not go greater than what they originally appropriated.

So if they appropriated $50,000 in the nonrestricted fund and you're going to put it on a project that's restrict that can be used for restricted Yeah. you can request a transfer of that appropriation straight across those funds. Um, and that as long as the two the sum of those two fund appropriations don't exceed what they adopted adoption. Okay. It's on the last page. Okay. Right here next to last. Okay.

I I think I'm easy. Well, this is where I mean this is where it's going to get more um intricate. So, do we need to have a break? Is everybody still focused? Can we take a break? 10 minute break. Okay, good.

County tourism. Correct. Thank you. That's correct.

Okay. Um, go back. Well, jail come up. Who's doing jail? Gary, can you pull up? So, this is another um line item where things got moved out of um the general fund department for jail into Kumcat. Um Gary, if you go down on that sheet right there. So, um, we had $18,200 moved out of the jail into Kumap. So, it's on page nine,

Teresa. Yes, sir. Moved from the general fund into Kim Cap. Yes, sir. So, moved out of the general fund. Correct. Yeah, which again um on these moves made in the budget, it we're a little more educated on cube cap now after all of this and it is a smart move. It frees up well here it's freeing up $18,000 in the general fund. Yeah, these are capital outlays which you'd want to see in the cap. So what's the question on that?

This is just informative at this point to tell the jail that this is moved. This is part of the budget that was moved they didn't know about. So when you pull line items out of fund A and you put line items in fund B, the area of improvement moving forward is that the council, if anything like this is done in the future, the council has to reach out to the department head and the auditor and make the auditor and the department head aware aware that this block of line items were pulled from general fund and put into the cube cap.

Well, the cube cap is a commissioner fund. Okay. And we had a huge um cap, not a huge, we had a substantial cash balance in that fund, but because of the restructuring of the budget that you all asked us to do this year, we created [snorts] a threeyear, fiveyear, you know, I see. So when you moved all this stuff into Kumcap, you were counting on Kumap having money going forward and then all of a sudden you see this money coming out which [clears throat] depletes the cash reserve balance which messes up your 5year forward looking correct. So can we see that plan? I mean, that's a key piece. We if we can't see it, we don't know to respond how to that it's there, right? That you have Well, again, if you're going to move the million dollars in the budget, we should we should be

Yeah, that's fair. We should talk about it. There's even we just need to see so we can to answer your point, Jim. Yes, it would be that department. And then it would be the auditor, you guys, and the commissioners because Yeah. Because I think I I see where you're headed because I just looked at this report here, right? Yes. Because you've handed that out. And then in the last two previous commissioner meetings, you've spoke to the issue of the council. I forget how you stated it, but the council, you know, cut a million one. I think the number that you used had not cut, moved.

Moved. Okay. So, we moved it now. So, go ahead and I'll let you Okay. So, this was just to inform the department head because there again there's billing. This creates a a bottleneck for the auditor's office for paying bills for them to submit their payments because they did not know that that money came out of their budget. So, so what do we need to do to It also created a lot of work. This was the the items that Julie spent the weekend before your adoption meeting trying to find those changes that were made. Oh yeah, cuz she was not notified. That's why we went through

So Julie, the night before the Monday when we had the budget, okay, you got into the office that weekend, right? Mhm. Uh because I'm just trying to clarify to recognize where mistakes were made. Oh yeah. So that hopefully we can improve and we don't have the same issue next in in a few months because we have 2027 coming up. That's okay.

Correct. And so because what you and I, if you'll remember, you and I discussed in your office at first you pushed back and then you decided no, go ahead. And so based off your authorization, I had Rei upload form four in the gateway, if you remember that conversation. Do you remember? Yeah, I remember it. Okay. So you g you gave me the green light to tell Rei because Rei had told me that they quite often for some of their county governments will upload [snorts] the budgets and the gateway for form four. If I'm not mistaken, I believe you already told it before you asked me.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I did not. I did not. I did not. How I heard it. Who who told you what? Well, we're go we're going for we're going we're going for it. I had not. I had not. not keep going. I had not I had not they did not I because only the conversation I had with them prior to that was a conversation with Rei about whether or not is it reasonable and customary for them when they're working for their client to upload that form for because that takes a lot of pressure off the auditor having to do that because I think that's a considerable amount of work is it not?

No, it's not. She still has to put it in her financial system. So then you come in on that weekend and then what what caused all the problems was this issue right here of pulling line items out of the general fund, putting them in another fund because now you've got to go in and sort through literally lines and lines and lines of data that I didn't know that you didn't know how. Okay, I get it. Well, I apologize for that. I did not have any idea. Yeah, I'm sorry to create the hassle for you. and and it actually forced her I mean because she has two sets of records to keep she has the the gateway and she has her LA system and those two have to match right

and we've always put it in LA and then uploaded into gateway so that when the auditor's office rolls the budgets forward there is no issue that they don't match what the state board of accounts then has out okay yeah so going forward The auditor really needs to keep that control and it does not need to be outsourced going forward. The auditor is keeping that control. Well, that's Yeah, I know. But you know, in 27 you won't be around and you know Yeah, but I'm here this year. No, I know I'm talking about 27, 28, 29, 30. So, it sounds like

there wasn't really a disagreement. It was more and actually I'm going to back up. I think it was more the tardiness of that activity that was the problem because moving funds that are capital expenses into cumap is a good thing coming out [clears throat] of the general that's a good thing this council intentionally does those things to relieve burdens on our taxpayers budget it was an opportunity just let me just continue that thought and so those activities will occur have always occurred and will continue to occur if we're doing our job the question is when does that occur what communication happens and we know painfully that we were way behind this year.

We were as a council [snorts] way behind as we are sitting here today painfully behind. you were actually ahead of schedule and and we I was trying to get you there but we didn't get there and so the way it happened was was could see some improvement but it's more the timing of that and you're working on a weekend and that's the issue that and that is the council's responsibility council's fault and I'll go ahead and blame the finance committee while I'm at it because it's primarily your fault. There was no is are you are you serious? Um, what reports did you get from your president on the finance committee? What minutes did you receive from the president in a public meeting from the finance committee?

We had two meetings before it was hijacked. You had a meeting that I was disinvited to. I don't want to hear about the finance committee. There wasn't one. The finance committee was responsible for our budget and and you had a member on the finance committee. Did he give you the minutes of those those meetings? We're not we're we're trying to have a constructive conversation. No, Scott. What you trying to do is push responsibility on somebody else. It's the pack. It's a finance comm everybody but role. And wait a minute, Tim, you were on the finance committee. You mean all two meetings? No, no, no, no. You do. You have a telephone, do you not? Mhm. Do you have email? Jim, who's the president? Who was the chair of that committee?

I was better next time. Let's go back to this. I want to go back to this issue. You said you basically had it together. You two were had it together. Then a wrench gets thrown in the work because improper communication and somebody and you should have the final authority of what goes in Yeah. into there. Correct. And we just did not respect that. So these are the issues that we need to put in place for the future and therefore threw [clears throat] a wrench in the works and then we end up quote behind. Is that what we're talking about happened here? Meaning that when Rey and you start trying to justify these matters weekends. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So let's have better communication on that. weekend.

That's how Julia knew when she came to your meeting that you guys were so far over levy in what you were adopting and it's cash operating there. Please can you define for me what when you say we're 360 grand over leving levy. Can you explain to me exactly what that what's your definition? What's that mean? That mean that means that you're adopting more than you can you can. And when when the 1782 notice came out, you were told to reduce your your budget or that they reduced your cash operating balance because you had adopted too far over levy. Over levy means you're collecting more than that 4% growth that we were

No, I understand that. Okay. So on that levy worksheet that we handed you on the adoption night, it showed you every fund and the way it was. And when you summed all of the levy funds together, you were and and I' I've got in here, you were well over levy. Well, and you said that's the first you heard of, right? Because because we didn't have the information came in at the next meeting and said I was correct that we were three.

Okay. But here's the way. Let me push this and you tell me whether or not I understand this correctly. You know, because I talked to Rob Norris with the DLGF and he told me, you know, there are 91 counties, 92 counties in this per Rob Norris with the DGF that are all at the max levy. Okay. Pretty much.

And my understanding is is when you're at the max in a county or a municipal government is at the max levy, you can submit whatever you want to the DGF. They're not going to give it to you. The only thing that you're going to possibly get is that growth quotient which is based off the last six years non-farm payroll and for 2026 that was 4%. So they could increase the the property tax revenue. However, when I look and I was, you know, working on this budget, you know, right now, and this is based off of the November 17th. I will email this out to make sure everybody's had a copy of it, but the general and I was primarily focused on the general fund and the total budget expenses for 2026 is 9,856,663. Rei projected are 26 revenues which includes property tax which is about a third and then the other twothirds is miscellaneous revenue which includes income tax plus whatever the revenue the county generates internally. That number they've got forecasted which it's a forecast. We have no idea what we'll actually receive in 2026 is 10,32 and 10 million $32,71. So as the budget that we

10 million in one year it's Yeah. Yeah. They've got 10,32,71 which includes because what my understanding is what they've done is they've gone into Lao. They've they've pulled the revenues for say the last three years which is property tax. They've they've they've pulled the and the mis what's referred to as miscellaneous revenue which includes your your your uh uh uh income tax and it includes again any revenue to the county generates internal. So for example, your levy freeze.

Yeah. Right. All that. Okay. So we've got basically, you know, to keep it simple, you know, it it bottom line is it left and what I'm looking at and have been trying to focus on is the big picture, right? That's what you have to do, right? And so your revenue is nowhere near 10 million, isn't it? It's 6,218,000. Is that miscellaneous revenue? That is miscellaneous revenue. Okay. But then when you add the property tax in, what's that bring it up to? Well, that's that's [cough and clears throat] cuz property tax isn't included in miscellaneous revenue, is it? No. I didn't think it was. Right. No. So, you're miss you're saying your miscellaneous revenue is is 10 million.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The whole all. So, so what I'm saying, Rey, I'm not saying it. You're correct. Between the two. Yeah. Between Yeah. You're at 90 9.5. Well, and they've got 10. So, we're off a half a million. Here's the issue. Well, that's a projection. It's all a forecast. It's all a forecast. It's all That's what we were over 11. Oh, I see what you're saying. So, you had 9 and a half million, they had 10 million, right? And that's at 500,000. Got it. Prior years actual. Okay. Or Yeah. When I when I project estimated revenues, and they usually use ours, I use a two and a half year average and then project it out at 95%. And what does Rey do?

Probably run 100% I would assume, wouldn't they? I would hope not. Well, I don't I [clears throat] don't know the difference because you don't always get because because I don't think I don't think they were I don't think they were using 100%. Here's the issue right now. Okay. Based off REI's numbers, okay, u they showed us with $176,000 surplus out of the general fund for 2026. But as we've go in and implement these different appropriations, we're now at $82,624 in the red for 2026. I I have a plan. I have I have a plan. So, and if we add the 500 grand, we're actually in the red $600,000.

Let me just kind of level set here. There were two projections. They didn't exactly match. And there's nothing wrong with that. They were actually pretty close, it sounds like. And so it's it's not like it's not very well I mean not in this county half a million dollar at the end of the day the the state will determine what that budget is. So it's like well the state's already approved it because we got 1782 and it's already been sent back. Correct. Yeah. So the budget's approved for 2026. Correct. Can I move us back to

year? Okay. So, if you go to the um since Cammy's here, that this spreadsheet I gave you 1170 um page number three. Um again, when we sat down with the sheriff's department this year going over the budget, um collectively we all worked together to move and scrunch numbers and get rid of account lines to um to make it perform better for that department. Yeah. Number three, Teresa. Yeah. Page three. Page three. Just number three. Number three, other services and charges.

Yes. Number three. I'm sorry. Okay. Um, debt services down there with with the ir equipment. Do you want to explain what that is, Tammy? That's the equipment they use in the interview rooms and in the breathalyzing room. Right. Correct. Is your microphone on? Can Can you turn your microphone on, please? I don't know anything. I have a hearing deficit, so I'm just trying to hear. It's on. Is it on or just Tammy? You want to come just sit down? Maybe that we can hear you better.

It's the system that when they bring sus suspects in it's recorded and then used in court or so it's a lease annual lease or Yeah. And the lease is right now and the equipment is going to have to soon be replaced. But that's what we've always used that money for. It's what? $4,500. I don't have the 15. Um so you 45 4500 for the lease 15 15,000 for the that is if we yeah bought it outright but before we [clears throat] have just leased it payment was the payment was like 4,400 and something when we bought this last system but

so what's the 15 is that still needed or just the lease 4500 is needed? I I think somebody got a bid and that's what it was. Do you know anything about that? I've ever seen it. So, is it four or 15? Are they both valid or is [clears throat] it We need one. We only need one. Okay. And is it four or 15? And we'll split give you seven if you need cuz right now we got 20. One was 4500 and 15,000. We got 19,000 now. And if we need four, so 15 was cut. Well, she was kind of she was about to explain something that might answer question. Yeah. If we bought it outright, I think it was going to be around 15. And if we leased it for three years, it's four. It was going to be both of them in there in prior. And so we need one or the other. Right.

When did we change that? And you said the lease is up. Yes. So the equipment is no longer under. If it breaks down, it's gone. It's obsolete at this point. Okay. So going forward, what is the Are you le are you now into the position where you need to lease to replace it. Okay. 15. Yes.

So, a lot of the things that was done with the sheriff's department in this fund was to do again production. So, like his cars he's purchasing all of all of the if you look at last year's form ones and this year's formons, you can see all the changes that the sheriff partner made. So, that was another keep it encumber type of situation. So, we're not sure what the total is, but we think we're going to need something. And can you come with fund and it's 1170. So, the money's there. We just need a new appropriation if and when you need it. Yeah. Is that how that would Yeah, you still have to do. So, we don't know what. So, this year we got nothing. Is that correct? So, you got 4,000, right? You got 4500,

which is your typical typical lease amount. So, yeah, if we if we get a lease, it's going to be around that, right? And so, but if you don't, I mean, I don't think we care what you do, but we don't want to pay for both. And so, the 15 was cut. I don't even know when or Yeah. who cut it or anything, but the 15 was cut. The lease was retained. So, if you decide to buy, let us know. We'll we'll increase it. But right now, you're covered with the lease if you continue that. Well, instead of let us know later. right now. Did do you have Sounds like they're still working on it. Are you Well, I I don't know if it was somebody got the quote or whatever you want to say for the replacement and it wasn't me. So, hold on. What are you doing at this point right now? It's still it's working.

Okay. So, you you have you hold on. You have the lease paid through this year. Yes, it's paid for 26. [clears throat] No, I mean it we budgeted for it, but Yeah. Yeah. I've not I have no plans to spend that until I get the new system. Do you know who put the 15,000 on your form one for what? Yes. Brad or somebody got the got the quote to replace the system and that's where he must have given her the number but it wasn't approved. It was moved out. It was moved out. Yeah. So you wanted to lease it or buy it? I'm totally confused.

Before we couldn't get very much but what do you want to do now? What what is the best deal? What is the most economical outright would be the best deal, right? Yeah. We had at some point said, "Well, they they'll give you this much money, you know?" Oh, yeah. Let's go with that one. Okay. Well, but it's So, are are you looking into buying it right now? Is that what is that what No, I'm sure that quote we got several months ago is probably no good anymore. So, Okay. And it's not going to be cheaper. It's technology. Yeah. It's probably going to be more expensive. So, the best thing at this point right now is to buy it instead of leasing it. I mean, buying is always better than leasing. Not borrowing money is better than borrowing. But yeah,

if we have the money, we should buy it. [clears throat] Yeah, I agree. So, do we need to buy it? I've never seen a quote. I don't know what it is. So, I'm confused. If we put the 15 grand back in, can you just buy it then? I would say yes. Yes. And that's what would make I agree with you. Better to buy it. Well, but Jim, if it's 4,000 a year to lease and it's good for 3 years, I think it was Well, that was the old system. That's what we were paying, right? It is. We just need more information. You have to continue. That's what we were paying on. Well, then you get into this. What kind of equipment is this? Please remind me. It's the recording equipment for the room audio. Yeah. You have to have a service contract on that stuff, right? Because it goes bad, it breaks or whatever,

right? And so you have to pay for service on them on top of the purchase. I have Yeah. Okay. Okay. So we don't know. Well, you know what? Can I say something? Yeah. We always do additional appropriations. I mean, we just gave the commissioners 149,000 a few weeks ago. Additional appropriations 2025. So, you can always come back in and get more money, right? Well, I mean, the council's kind of like a drive-thru ATM. [laughter] Wow. money. I I don't know what all the contracts are, but there is money appropriated that if you need to buy right now, you could transfer it in and then if one of those other lines run short, you could come and request an additional appropriation,

right? Because we have like a general [clears throat] $100,000 approved for equipment inre in the um lip fund. So, it could easily be moved out of one of these others and then if one of them runs short, right? We've been through this with the 901 or AT&T, whatever it was, contract where every five years we pay it and somehow the money's gone. That's not happening anymore. That is prior issue, but let's make sure it doesn't happen again by saying, "Well, we got 400." That it it is here and that's why we've restructured it with Brad so that that money will stay there. It will build year by year. It Yeah, that's not where you build. I'll take your lead on.

Say that again, Jackie. This year, it's here. So, we don't have an issue there yet. And and you're not sure what you want to do, and that's totally fine. You got money there to transfer immediately if you want it. Uh if you need to come back to us for a different appropriation, let us know. And I don't think I mean, that's non-issue. It's not a crisis. I don't think anybody's going to die, right? Is there something we're missing there, Teresa? Nope. Yeah. Okay. So, we're done with jail. Time for lawsuits. Oh, that was it in the jail. You want to do more? Well, I have a question, though. Okay. Um, I know what I just asked you and you said it was moved, but I don't see it. Um, what's on the next page? I'm missing the proceed.

You showed it in the 2000 series. System automatically puts it in the 3000. It's a It's always been 33300 0. That's what it is. But on this here, it said I'm on the wrong page now cuz I was looking for Oh, inmate food. It's on page nine out of 20. Well, you don't have the page numbers. There are, but they're out of whack. Oh, they're so out of whack. Yeah. Nine. Is that nine? That's eight. Oh, eight. Look at the back of the eight. Does that say nine? It says six. Oh, six. Here. Go back to here. Here you go. Back to this page. I don't have nine. N. That's 12. Yeah, yours are real messed up. Here. Look at Jail.

I just had it in front of me. Page 18 on the gateway. You just gave Here it says inmate food right here. Inmate food, but the next page should should I only have even numbered pages. I'm missing all the odds. So maybe requested zero, but 75 went into that. It's a new line. The odds too. Is that the last batch of copies that were made? Yeah, it must have. That's what general So they put it I see you moved it. It's But that's the same account number that I've always used. Same account number, but a new line item. It's It's the same account number. Same account. I think it could have been It's an inmate food and

75. Yeah. And when it was originally advertised, it was in the 200 2000 series. Okay. Cuz when I looked at this, it's inmate food requested 75,000. Granted zero. So So the auditor moved it into a different This does it by the outside by the crosswalk. Okay. So, no issue there. Where where where is that now? Right here. Jail general uh services and charges inmate 333 750. Zero requested. Whatever reason. That's because because that's the sub.

This is this is where it was requested. It got none. And here's wasn't requested there but it got to 75,000. So it was moved. So it moved into and that was by auditor by council but in a good way. It was a good move. You're glossing over that. Okay. What was it moved into No me one. That was that was okay. So it was it was advertised here not approved here. It was [clears throat] it was just submitted with a wrong number on it. Okay. And then but it's where it's where it should be. Yeah. It's fixed. Okay. There is another question. And it's the same number. Yes.

There is another question about jail. Um, when I talked to some of you council members yesterday, you stated that the opioid money was approved to use for the jail services coordinator. Services coordinator. We talked about a couple meetings ago. Do you know that? No. I would coordinator. So, can we pay that with Yes. Restricted opioid money. Do you have more money? Cuz I thought that money was gone. Well, there's two. It'd only be one year with nonrestricted [clears throat] cuz she's in the jail budget. She's currently in the jail budget, but you're going to take it out of We can.

Can we take that out, Jackie? And move that to the Why would you want to do that? So, the jail reduce the general fund impact. Why would you want to do it for one year? There's no point. It's the general fund. So, just leave it alone. Wait a second. I think going going take him out of the general fund or her out of the general fund this year. She's going to be hard to get back in next year. Okay. I think what happened is when we when we had the when we were the 300,000 360 over levy. I think we had proposed paying her out of the opioid to reduce our over levy, but it came out of your cash. Exactly. But if we're good and we don't need to pay it out, the opioid.

What qualifies for opioid that we can use her in? Because she was a grant and then we didn't get reapproved for her grant. She went right here because they kept her in the grant and they moved her to jail. And if we don't spend the opioid, it just sits drug addiction. Yes. You can use the opioids for it. If we don't use it, I'm not sure that that would qualify for the non-restricted opioid. That's a hard word to say. And if we don't use it, it just sits there and accumulates. So there's no there's no hurry to spend it. No harm about 69. So if we don't have to pay her out the

next four years to pay her every year, that's why I don't want to do it if we don't have to. maint. [cough]

That's your numbers. Let's see. Why couldn't she just be paid this year out of there and leave what's in the other fund just sitting there? So, we're not really eliminating that salary out of the other area. Why can we not just pay her out of the opoid money this year? Yeah, that's what we decided to try to get her back in county general next year. And remember, why can't that money just stay there, Jackie, and not move it out? Just leave it there, but we pay her out of a different area. Is that possible? That's what we thought. That's possible, but then somebody could request a transfer. Yeah, but we don't need to at this point though. If we don't need to, then there's no reason to.

And remember, we don't know what what's happening with levy freeze and all of our income taxes. Yeah. Well, and that's why we want to be more conservative and take pressure off the general fund where we could it was a discussion we had at the time. If you're giving us different recommendations next year, yeah, it's one year, but I don't think it was in the general last year. Well, it wasn't Wasn't somebody supposed to start looking for grants for her again? It wasn't in there last year. So that it wasn't and so we're not taking it out paying. It never was in there, right? And so except you've adopted it. Well, now somehow, but yeah, we we can alleviate that general fund. It's your call

and yeah, we thought we were taking out to reduce the general fund impact. That was our discussion. It was our discussion. You're right. Right. But the conclusion was the opio the opioid money is decreasing every year. It's not sustainable. Not pay her. Correct. Non-restricted if and then we'll have to get her back into the general fund. So we might as well keep her in the general fund so we don't have to and then that opioid money sits there and accumulates and we can use it for for what it needs to be used for equipment. She might need but it can't be because it it's deplet it's reducing every year

but then once that reduces to where it then we have to find there okay so there's no issue there with that yeah there's yeah we can do a lot of things with it including jail services it's there let's just let it the but I don't I don't want to I don't want to next year we may need to take her out and put her in overview but we'll do it then we need to pursue grants because that was the council originally approved that position on a grant level we had a year and a half worth of pay for a grant we didn't get the next year's grant like I said she fell through the cracks and then now she had to land somewhere so they put her in jail so

so here's here's what I'll say about that position and if we could present Miss President move on that's a critical position There should be no doubt in our minds that will continue no matter where it is. Let's move on. She didn't. Okay. She didn't fall through the cracks. She didn't fall. She's not going to fall through the cracks. Oh, no. He's going to dress. So, we're good. Jail. Yes, sir. Um, just this is kind of maybe maybe I shouldn't even bring it up, but I just it's more of an informative. Jim

had a conversation with Ted [clears throat] Adams. Um, and the conversation had to do with fund 8312, which is the victim assistant program fund and a conversation on the 9400 fund or grant. This is grant money, prosecutor investigator grant. So, we figured out why we were in the red. Okay. Got it all right here if you want a copy of it. Uh but based on my conversation with him, he wants to basically take those two payroll positions he's got in those two grants and he wants to move those back into the general fund. So yeah, well I just

he has he has [clears throat] heads up. Yeah. I just you guys ever pay back the 80,000 I just want to make you aware that that So you're going to pay back $80,000 to those grants and add two more positions. Whatever that needs to be resolved. I don't think we've resolved it. It's still hanging in the air. It's not it's not right. So it just So that needs to be resolved. Gary Huitt. Okay. So it it's my Yeah. So I I don't know. Anyway, I just wanted to share that conversation. All right. What's next? Yeah. So Eric did have the quote for the IR court system and he sent it to Colton over there. And the new system total cost would be $69,000 or to purchase

394 for the first year and then $7,46 for years two through five to pay it off. And that includes all maintenance, everything. 7* 5 35 grand is the lease, 69 is the purchase. Yes. Yes. The total cost of this quote is 69,000. Your first year is the 30 whatever. Your next four years after that are 7,400. That's for the per that's for the So I don't have anything on me to say what that would be to 69 up front or is it distributed? So we're we it was nowhere near what it needed to be. So we need to come back to that if you guys need to and you got to probably go through the commissioners get your contract approved or whatever still.

Yeah. Whatever that Yeah. And I guess Eric had it, but I didn't know that. But Oh, so Eric had appropriated. Money should be appropriated first. Say that again, Jackie. The money should be appropriated before the commissioners accept a contract. Mhm. And so the contract apparently Eric has that. No, no, no. He has the quote. The quote for the for the new So we got a quote that IT department has a quote. pain, right? If I could address this over there. I didn't know he was sitting there over there.

Oh, they make me keep quiet back [laughter] here chained to the chair. Uh, so yeah, I worked on the I record system, which is the same system that I worked on for years at Monroe County. the state of our current system is is beyond on its last legs, you know, and it's an expensive thing that they've had to put off because, you know, coming up with 70 grand is hard to do. Uh, as my understanding of that quote that I forwarded is that it's just shy of $70,000 and that is to purchase the system. They've the vendor has broken it down in multiple payments. So, there's an initial year layout investment of like just shy of $40,000 and then it's broken down over a couple of other years.

So, that's that's the explanation of the quote that I got from her. Uh that quote was done in November, so those numbers probably haven't changed too much. Is there a lease option? Have you looked? I did not talk about a lease option with them because in my conversations with the sheriff, he was like, "Man, we've already gone down this road and it's so expensive. I just don't know what we can." So, I mean, I just Yeah.

The the minute you start talking to these sales guys about this, it becomes a very aggressive situation. So, I just got the quote, said, "We'll get back to him later." And that that's that's where we're at. Is there is there um does that include any service and maintenance or is okay for the five for the five years. Now do do are we required to break down the five-year payments to get that or could we pay it all in one lump sum up? I think they're fine if we paid it all in one lump sum. I think I think we just told them that we wouldn't be able to do that. But okay, we could certain I mean I could probably negotiate a discount from that 70,000 if we pay it all up front

and that that was what I was getting at and that's the purpose of is accumulate money to pay for capital outlays like this. Do you normally get multiple quotes for this kind of thing? Uh on this it's a very specialized piece of equipment. Um, it probably would not be a bad idea to get a couple competing quotes. In my experience with having had some experience with this, I think that price is high. I think I could get them to bow or I think that'd be a good idea. I agree with that. So, is this ready for council action or no? Okay. Sounds like all right, you're going to get close.

So, no issue here as well. You still got to put the money in place. the most you want to spend, you can put the money in place so that when the courts come in and the commissioners accept it, you're ready to go. So if if it's that bad, if you think it's going to last three or four months that this Well, I guess Eric's going to know more about that than me. Yeah. Then you know it doesn't need council action, but if if we're thinking that this might fall off here in the next two months council action, uh we got a meeting in two weeks. Can you guys and if we need to advertise I mean do you want to is this an emergency you have to have it in gateway 10 days before then we don't have to advertise anymore we have to have it in gateway 10 days prior

I'm just trying to figure out is this something we need to take action on now or no I don't know the state of the equipment we have but I think it would be wise to replace it yeah replacement sounds like a good idea question is can what is there something we need to do now I mean because it's being brought before us

you have the you have the ability if if you want to put amount in a maximum amount in for advertising purposes. When it comes to your meeting, you can either table it till the next meeting if you don't have the quotes and you can adopt anything under the amount that was put in originally. So if you if you put 40,000 in and it comes in at 25. So she's advertised in Gateway at 40 and it's only 25. When you adopt the additional appropriation, you only have to adopt 25. You don't have to adopt what you advertise.

Do we have to paid it all off? You would put that amount in there or want a little bit higher and then you could [cough] do [clears throat] any amount lower. You just can't go higher. Do you table it if you're not ready? Do we have $70,000 to put in there right now? to pay this upfront. No. Yeah, you do not. So, we have 39. Remember that we changed the the way the sheriffs or that he's purchasing vehicles or [clears throat] we've got two active leases still one active lease vehicle lease. There might be one. So, I mean, no, you do not have that much cash to do that. Do we have 39? Do we have the 40? Um,

do you mean unobligated money or money that can be transferred either? whatever you have unobligated money. So, we could do an additional appropriation and if we're talking the public safety lit, yes, there is unobligated money, but like I was just telling Teresa, that's a fund you're going to have to watch because this year you budgeted uh 1.6 million and you only get in, excuse me, that's the wrong worksheet here. 1.6 [laughter] 6 million and you only give in 1.15 cuz and we had Yeah, we had cash balance in there. Yeah.

So, we had some cash balance in there so we were able to do that but we paid the um and in 20 in 28 it's all going to be back in county general. All right. What do we want to do? Is that part of SB1? Yes. So, is it Why did they don't change anything? Yeah. What are the chances they're going to change that this year or next year? Which Reach me to the subject of the legislation conference that you all need to attend at the end of the month. Yeah. Let's stick on this. Yeah. Okay. So, no action. Okay. So, you are going to get more quotes. I'll [clears throat] revisit the thing with the folks in the LEC and I'll take the lead on that.

All right. And then we can come back and ask for 39 from council and if we can come up with And then by the time the you come up with the amount to pay it off. That would that would be if we can get a discount on paying it off. Okay. That would be great. Okay. So, right now we're just at the point of you guys work together for both. Yes. Okay. So, you're done with me? I think that's it. Is that I know some of my stuff got moved to Lyn and Kumat, but she and I have worked. I know what it is. Yeah, there's no issue. I'm fine. You did have changes to her jail payroll that we've not seen or since the last meeting you were going to you had concerns about the pay of jailers that you were going to and so I don't know if she needs to stick around for that.

No, we've already taken care of it. So what you Brad and I went through it? Yeah. So there was no Brad Hall and I went through it. We're good. Okay. So you're good. Yep. We're good. Thank you. You can stick around if you want Tammy. I mean you don't have to rush [laughter] out of here. Yeah. Excuse me. Thank you. Well, go ahead. Need an excuse to leave. [laughter] Okay. So now comes to the um to the health health fund and the commissioner's funds and the proposal of

well our general well the commissioner the 068 what I was meaning page um which is okay department sorry our Did you guys all get this? Do I have them? I gave you the prosecutor's stuff. That's it. This is the email from Patty.

Okay. So yesterday um talking to some of the council members and going through these numbers to try to explain um thought process and having Jackie here because I I'm just saying what I'm seeing and I don't know if it's legit or if we can do it or what. So we have had a really good year with the health plan. um all of the everybody's hard work to changing the insurance around, it's working and it's reflecting in the numbers that we ended the year with. [clears throat] So by the way, we ended the year in really good numbers. Really good numbers. $971,000.

We haven't heard that for a long time. No, you've been around. We've been pummeled by this fund and and the changes that were made to the calm down to the plans two years ago [laughter] that being reflected here. The the changes to the plans that were made and the fact that we really focused on employee health. Yeah. So we got them in the clinics. You your program, the wellness [clears throat] program that you guys have been funding for years to give people $25 [snorts] for going to the dentist, eye doctor. That's that's this is the proof in the pudding. all of the work we've been doing over the past few years to get to a point. Now, are you always going to have a good year? Well, there were no lasers. Is that what I'm hearing this year? Which is a major part of our success? I mean,

can I can I step in? Can I step in here and please? Okay. First of all, you know, I'll take 100% of the responsibility of the $2.7 million of group medical. Number two, I'll take responsibility for the se the I because uh Jerry uh Jerry Hickman and I discussed it and Hickman, you know, uh we agreed to pull the additional $700,000 because we were only funded about a $2 million level um based off of the [clears throat] F the form ones that were submitted. All right. And so we increased the um you know increased I it's in here somewhere. I'm trying to look for it. You increased it by

$700,000. Yeah. I'm looking for it. This is 405 economic development. Economic development. I'm looking at your lit public safety. [clears throat] So anyway, so now the rationale behind the $2.7 million. Can I stop you before you go into your rationale? So, I don't know what you and Derry did or what you did, but according to the numbers, Yeah. I'm getting ready to explain what what I'm coming from because the what I'm coming what I'm what I'm working with is that I was in your office. You were in there. Tim was there. Julie was there. I think Apex and and Patty Perry was in there. This would have been second quarter, which is the reflection.

I actually have the 2026 plan projections. I have it right here. And on that, that was the only thing I had to go by. So on that date, you know, this is the projected 2026 [clears throat] cost is at the expected was at two 2,400 excuse me 2,690,954. The midpoint was 2,906820 and the max cost was 3,122686. My understanding at that meeting is that the expected there's a you using standard deviation there's a 50 for 50/50 probability on the expected it could go over could go under [clears throat] all right so I used the expected number which is the two I rounded it up 10 grand put in $2.7 million in addition to that you know keep in mind you know the only historical frame of reference I have is essentially January 23 to today because Okay. So when I came in on board at that point in time 2022 we were $586,25266 in red ink and 2021 we were 606224 in red ink of which we got written up for with the state board of accounts which to me that issue has to do with why we are probably three clicks away from junk bond status. So this is this is a really important issue and then when you know and then it shows which I didn't know but it shows gateway shows uh 1231 at 2024 we were actually 510 17925 in the red. Now that's a separate issue because those are your ending cash balances. Uh when I look at the dispersements and I look at the dispersements from 2018, 2018 the the the dispersements for the 4700

account was $2,460,000. 2019 we hit a high of 3,546,000. 2020 we 2,937,000. 2021 2,863,000. 2022 you know 19 2 million bucks basically. 23 it was 2,168,000 and then in 24 we spent $2,634,434. In addition to that, if I remember the last one, I'm sorry, the very last one. 24. Yeah, the 1231 20224 is 2,6342444. Okay.

All right. And in addition to that, if I remember correctly, maybe I'm wrong, but I believe it's it historically over the last 24 months, we actually passed a resolution and I forget the I think it was a million we wanted to maintain in the 4700 count simply in reserves. Correct. I remember council passed that project and and and we wanted to be able to get the rainy day fund to a million five 2.5 I thought two and a half

well be better two and a half yeah because I personally you know and I'm just you know personally you know my my sole responsibility as a council member per state statute uh very concerned about our credit rating we have to do a good job managing our expenses We need to free up discretionary savings to build our cash reserves so that we don't have to be dependent on short-term debt financing for capital improvements and lastly be able to stabilize our income tax rates and our property tax rates because we're already at the max levy. So what I'm scared to death of is I'm not scared about 26 27. It may get a little ugly. Don't know. But if if the county if you look at the past five years and you throw that in the next five years, you know, you guys are doing a wonderful job getting organized. Tim, you're doing a great job. Um, and my concern is is at some point in time in the conversation is it says, "Well, we got to increase income tax because you can't increase property tax, but we can increase income tax." And so we're at 2.554. I'm paying 3.05%. 05% state income tax. And personally, I'm a taxpayer and I really don't have any interest in paying the state 3.05% and having to pay the county another 50 basis points, you know, and now we're sitting at 2.8 2.9%. So, I'm real concerned about trying to maintain and stabilize so we're not in a position down the road to where we're going to continue to increase tax, increase tax because we're not we're not paying attention to [clears throat] our expenses. [cough] So that was the rationale behind it. I put in the 2.7. We put the 700,000 uh into that economic development fund which shove that one up

where would put us in red ink. Okay. Uh and I don't know what the 1231 2025 cash reserve balance is going to be in the 4700 account because I'm assuming this is January what? 7th or 8th. We probably haven't received all of the fourth quarters. We have. Have we? So where are we setting 971,000? Okay. So [clears throat] so do that everything that you said every person in this room is on board with so I you know so it's up to you to how what you want to so we've met our million dollar reserve and we budgeted for the expected health expense right midpoint right

and so what what do we need to do here? Okay. So, that is where um again you you have so many irons in the fire. So, you raised the the 1112 fund by $700,000. That bumped that up to 1.105 million coming out of that fund. Correct. I I It looks good that cash reserves were there. Are we I mean Jackie am I my Okay. Um [snorts] okay so that yes on the commissioner side in the department O68 we also contribute 1.1 million there. I know.

Okay. I know. So right now you're sitting with your rollover what you budgeted and what you did. You're at 3.6 million that's going to go in there this year. Whoa. Hang on. I'm at 3.6. Yes sir. Yes. Wait, what? Your cash balance plus what you No, let's take the cash balance out of it. No, that's rolling over. But we voted on a resolution to maintain a million in reserves. What does that resolution say? That you got to cut everybody off at the knees in one year and get your million bucks? You guys can do whatever you want. You're telling me No, you just do.

No, no, no. I am not saying anything. I'm just simply saying is that I'm right now. Can I Can I just tell you what we've the figures we've done and then you can cut it up? Well, wait. Just did we budget for 3.6? No, we budgeted 2.7. We budgeted 2.7. Where did we get to 3.6? We got a million in reserves. That's just a cash reserve. But an issue is what happens if you know my understanding if we go and Google do an AI Google health care costs what 16% increase every year. All right. And if we go back again, I am not discounting that million dollar or plus is is great and that is a huge goal and we should we hit it. We hit it

at what expense? So that's all right out. Go ahead. Yes. So basically in a nutshell with this right here, you you've got $3.6 million that's going to go into the health fund this year. What I'm suggesting is to on the commissioner's budget department 068 that 1.1 million rather than appropriating 1.1 million only appropriate 405,000 where are you wipes out the reserve potentially

could potentially wipe out the reserve. Bear with me. And then 27 you're going to have a problem. 28, you're going to have a problem. It gets worse as we go forward. Ugly, right? I don't You need to let her talk before you I'm just trying to follow you. What What line item are you looking at? The 1.1 or Okay. So, on in fund 112, that's where you guys added 700,000. Okay. start off by telling you that your pl your budgets are a million dollars off. Sure. Commissioner,

so what we're what we're saying is that you move money around and and if Okay, so if you only appropriate 405,000 out of the commissioner's budget for that healthcare, right? the other items in the budget that [snorts] were taken away such as the $120,000 for the HSA for Well, that's got to be put back in. It's got to be put in. Has to be put back in. So, where are you going to get it from? That's what I'm saying. Listen, let me talk. You have your turn. Let me talk. All right.

So, if you with that you took money, you took $73,000 out of the corner budget, right? You had it in their department, you moved it to kumcap and then it didn't get approved. So the corner's building, the corner's equipment, the corner's vehicle, there's four four line items in the corner department totaling 735. I know that. So that needs to go back. Just bear with me. [cough and clears throat]

Cut it up later. Um and and the other items which are on here, they're on that summary sheet that I gave Scott. Um that totals almost 400,000. So, what I'm saying is is that if you only appropriate 405 into the health fund, that 700,000 that's in the general fund that you know you're not messing with, if you fix those shortfalls in the budget, you're still going to come out ahead $351,000 that you can throw into the health fund. She's saying reduce the reserve contribution.

Yes. to to make up for what you pull from our cash reserves another 400. Three or 400. Which one? What's the total you're asking? What is your cash roll over this year? Is it five? Yes. So, okay. So, her general rule of thumb is to roll over 500,000 in what? The general fund every year. Okay. So then if this scenario plays out using round numbers, you would have 350 that you would have in there. And if you paid the um

centerstone out of the opioid money that we talked about, it's a one-year thing, too, though. Correct. Um, that's another 128,000 that would stay in the general fund, but then next year it's got to go back in. But again, that's money that you can move from the general fund into it's just a matter of moving the money around. I know what it is. I know. What I'm saying is that yes, everybody agrees that we need a million plus in that health fund, right, as a reserve, but you have a salary thing that you wanted to end. It's a real problem. You have so many things that you wanted to do. I know, Teresa. It's a mess.

So, this isn't the year to rat hole a million bucks. It depending I mean it well it could it could it it could be the year if we can find money to do because then the pain is done and going forward we're set until we get hit with high medical claims. Yeah. No, I'm I'm saying keep the reserve. Oh yeah, I know. Yeah. I'm saying the pain the medical pain this year too that you budgeted I'm sorry Darren. You want to show that? Go ahead.

No, the pain this year is putting that million dollar reserve in the health trust fund. That's what I'm talking about the pain being and it's causing pain. But if we if we can do that, if we can stick to it and find some maybe the opioid money we can use to pay the senator. [clears throat] I'm I'm just throw I'm throwing I'm throwing stuff out there. Put band. Put Hold on. Put band-aids on the stuff that we need to put band-aids on to stop the bleeding. Then next year we we already have the million dollars reserve in the health in the health fund, the health trust fund. It's just getting to that point. It's getting Yeah. getting to that point. Get through the other

and it could be painful, but then we're done and we don't have to worry about the pain again, Jackie.

Does that make sense? I told Teresa earlier, just because it's appropriated in those funds or excuse me, in those line items doesn't mean it has to be moved into the health trust fund. It can it can be moved in increments over to that health trust fund. And if you have your million at the end of the year and you still have some left in the budget, then it's it stays in County General or edit, whichever one you're taking it from. So just because that 2.7 is appropriated doesn't mean that 2.7 has to move into the health fund all at one time.

In other words, if we come in Mhm. You instruct how much you want to go in quarterly. You look at it at that last quarter. Are you where you want to are you are you think you're where you want to be at the end of the year and and in your last meeting at the end of the year. Instruct the auditor to move to get to to or to get to your million that you want to have. And then that's cash operating that you have in the ensuing year. if you don't use all of the basically 1.1 in county general cuz like what Jackie said once you put money into that fund you can't take it out into the health fund

correct in the so it's obligated it becomes a liability account non-reverting it's non-reverting okay well the only thing I mean you know I'm indifferent on it okay my my biggest you know this is a fear-based statement uh is the standard deviation on the annual medical claims is a standard deviation. It's a riskmanagement issue. Correct. And [clears throat] I think the only reason we have this reserve balance in the 4700 is we got real we were really fortunate in 25. Correct. Period. It was really a nice surprise. So I and what scares me

remember too we budgeted midpoint this year for the first time. No, I so it's you know as all of you because I'm sure you guys all you know I'm not saying anything that you guys probably haven't already thought about. It's just that you know if we get two or three four people and something happens and we get hit with some astronomical bill. I just don't want the county sitting here going oh my gosh we got this we done that. We've done that year after year we get burned. That was the first thing I got hit with when I came in January. It just burned under budget. That's why we need budget appropriately this year at the midpoint. Uh it's and that's what we've done with the reserve in case we have lasers. So it's kind of a so the council can we all can do whatever you want. I'm just one person out of seven.

Encourage you just get your Jackie not Jackie um Patty at Apex because I spoke with her about this. Well, she's given her new numbers. So based on these new numbers, then these make the old numbers I have are outdated. Well, it's a little bit lower if I heard it right. So here, let's How about if we do this? Give me a second. If I go over here and I look at this because you guys got this. This is what we received in that meeting wherever right here. Apex Apex Tim you and I because I think this was the day we agreed to do that four the four thing for you know was it spouse

single family we changed right so this was the first of of uh this is probably second quarter I think of 25. All right. So what I did take if we take 2026 was expected projected 2026 cost 2,690,000. That's where I got the 270. And now she says in order to fund the plan to expected it's now 2.4 million. Okay. So that is but that's only 300 grand. There's your 120 that you can move into. Well, we got to do the HSA. We don't have any choice on that. It has to be done. There's 120. Still have 180. Well, that's expected. Not many.

Well, we got three and a half million reserves. Three and a half four million reserves on the general fund anyway. So, it's not like we're going to go broke tomorrow. We get We get cash. We get cash. Jim, is the expected the midpoint or the expected is the expected is the 50/50. It is not the midpoint. Standard deviation. You understand? Standard deviation. Yeah. What's the midpoint? It's it's the Oh, the midpoints. This was 2.9 and it's 2.648. And then that standard deviation Yeah. the standard deviation, it's an 80% probability that you're overfunded, right? Okay. At the midpoint. At the at the midpoint, right? So, we could probably shave that off a little bit. We could shave it. We can shave. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying to get rid of the

No, I know. I know. Jackie, out of there. I'm just using round numbers for your HSA. Let's do that. [clears throat] That's a safe. It's going to an HSA out of the, you know, a health related. I mean, you guys got the Okay, here's here's her sentence that sticks out to me. What is it? Yeah, I see that. On her in her email, the sentence that sticks out to me.

So, while it may seem like overkill, it is money in keep reserve for bad years, especially since we were coming off a really good claim. She just said exactly what's in my mind. We had a really good year. We were very fortunate to have that good year. I would like to take advantage of that good year tonight for how many years? Yeah. So that's what I'm saying. I've been here. There's a few other items before you. So yeah. I know. We never finally we're finally like Yeah. So there [cough] other items that were very to get to get under to get under lumpy. They cut health group health. I know.

Yeah. That was that was to the tune of 800,000 right there at the [clears throat] Always a surprise too. surprise. We had a different health insurance system at that time. That's what we re-engineered. That's what's proven out. So whether or not we've got the doom and gloom out there with the new system we have in [clears throat] place, it's questionable, right? I agree. Well, she says right here, as Darren said, you know, this reserve money is for bad years. I mean, she was with us when we talked about the $9. She was pointing out we could have bad years and probably will. Well, that's that's a fact. Yeah. [clears throat] That's why we had extremely good years. Yes. Like this year. Yeah. Yes. Could this continue in future years? Yeah, hopefully, but probably not. I mean, okay, so back to this taking of this cash. So, if you do 120,000 to get the HSA money back in there,

right? Um, and you cut 50,000 off of computer equipment out of Can't we use the GO bond for that? No. To buy computer equipment? No. Or for the recording equipment? Do we do we invest that money [clears throat and cough] in the health fund? You've got 900,000. Ask Andy. And Andy, do we invest that money on the health fund? You probably use it in total monies. It's total monies. I don't say, "Okay, there's the 4700 fund. I'm going to take that money and I'm going to put it in an investment account." It does not work that way. That was part of what we undid. Correct. We undid

when we undid the trust fund that we eliminated that need for you. Last year, last year. Yeah. I mean that that's tied to what we did, correct? It's done. Okay. Yeah. So 50,000 for computer equipment. That That's not a go. Why do you say we can't fight on the go bond? That's a Kevin question. Kevin the dollar with the go bond. I I can't I can't speak that language very well. I'm sorry. It's a capital expenditure, isn't it? Yeah. Um well computers you don't have you have an itemized list in that go bond currently with your ordinance about what that spending is any changes to that has to come from the council.

Well we can do that. So then we could we could fund we could fund their we could fund the uh I well you're getting into prosecutor's office money here too. That the remainder in that go bond right now is the prosecutor's office and that's a whole another how much is left in there right now? Well, we have two $2 million for prosecutor's office. Was it 2.1 something like that? Yeah. So, so the commissioners, just so you're aware, the commissioners were they had that town council meeting to try to attain that other building so that they could free up that cash to do the windows at the courthouse. And I again not improvements, not my can I just real quick and just a quick statement

before before we do what what is what is the balance of the go bond right now? What um we actually just finished that up yesterday. [cough] That's a [clears throat] good number that Doug has if you just put the claims last claims through. So, we got the number and if I'm remembering that right, that's a commissioner set of projects based on asset planning that is presented to the council and we approve it, but it's not really our set of projects. It's it's driven by the commissioners. It is absolutely a joint venture. Like I said, the board we're in charge of the spending, but you guys are in charge of the

I mean, you're you're over the buildings. you decide what needs to be done and we just kind of we established some oversight on it in in in the spirit of cooperation with the commissioners. We didn't want one or the other. We proposed the prosecutor the bill for the prosecutor on 2.1. Right. Who did? You did. No, we didn't. Yeah, you did. Were you coming up with that? No. No, it was that was that was that was anyway. Anyway, that's the number that was established commission. Oh, you mean the total number? No, the the commissioners Pitman and Blake and Geratoss because Gerats was working million. Yeah, one single office is both.

Okay. So, anyway, back to this. We have to figure out a way to get Eric if you want to speak on the subject since both of these items are yours. You have lease agreements for the IT department and we have the computer equipment for IT department um for a total of 60635 that was taken out of the budget. We got to put it back in. We need to put it back in. We got to put it back in. Hold on. We got I mean, if we can that was the whole purpose of the go bundle. Yeah. Was to fund this kind type of stuff. This is news to me. So I wrote made a note and you know I'll pursue it. So I'm saying I mean that's we have that available. The other thing that you took out for it was security improvements for 15,000. That is a um

go bond and I think some I think some some of this got taken out to use for the go bond. Mhm. Um current total on the go bond $3,598. Oh, you guys haven't spent hard. So we have 1.4 that's not that's not reserved for these fund. You can every line item of every project is in there because we haven't paid for the AC for the jails yet, right? Um it's it's in it's in but we haven't paid all the correct we haven't paid all that so that hasn't that has not been deducted from the go bond yet it's in the go bond numbers appropriated

but it's in process so we're not going to pay for it until it's done why don't we put that back is is that [clears throat] accounted is is the is that account come out of that yet so that still has to be deducted from the 3 five that with the commissioners what they have done. You have the $2 million 2.1 basically for the prosecutor's office. That's where we're at. And that's part of that 3.5. Correct. Part of that. So of that 3.5, that's everything remaining. 2.1 of that is set aside for the prosecutor's office, which leaves 1.4. And of that 1.4, we've got a million of it that still has to pay for that.

I have a question though, Jackie. If um if they move that IT stuff out of the general fund into that goat bond, will we end up in it? I mean, can we keep it in there for how long can you keep it in there? The go bond's only good for so you reappropriate it every year. You have to appropriate that go bond every year, right? Or before you spend it. Okay. Is that what you're asking? Well, I'm asking like to put it's going to have to go back into the general fund if we pay it out of the program [snorts] next year or or the next year. So, that's a Oh, for operations. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I don't want to pay for operations out of it. I'm talking about I'm just thinking about what you capital earlier. That's for

Yeah. I'm not talking about Yeah. I'm not talking about operations. I'm talking about purchase of the computer, the IT equipment, the uh I record I record capital expenses. Yeah. Okay. And then there's just a little piddly one. 500 bucks we need to get back into the budget. It's an IC code for vaccinations. So that was just something that I that you guys just didn't have to worry about. What else? That that's Can I I realize that? So this is the $15,000 line item for the security stuff. What What did we decide we're doing that on that?

You're going to need quotes. No, no, no. That's the I record. Okay. Sir, I think the question was is that a go bond design? I don't [clears throat] know that we can take that out of the geo bond because that so that line item pays isn't buying equipment. It's not buying um licenses. It's buying service from a guy that comes out and services our [clears throat] already existing investment. So, it's an operational expense. Yeah. So that that can't that no that that cannot be made up. Which one is that, Eric? So that's I don't know the line item, but it's a $15,000 security maintenance or improvement or something like that. So I just wanted to point that out.

Well, it's not going to put us in bankruptcy court. So let's just go ahead and do it. Okay. So again, there's not a lot to show off the

Let's do this. Let's get back to the group medical. So, we take the 700 grand, get it out of there, fund the group medical for 2026 of 2 million. We've got basically a million in there. The based on Patty Perry, the expected the expected is 1550 2,432,000, right? So, let's just round that up and say it's 2.5 million. So worst case scenario, hopefully if we keep the current funding rate for the group medical at 2 million, free up the 700 grand in the fund, right? And we end up we end we end up Okay. All right. Hang on a minute. Hang on a minute. Hang on a minute.

Go ahead. Well, I'm I'm trying to we and if we end up for 2026 at 2 and a half million, right? Then we've decreased our reserves by a half a million, which means a reserve in the 4700 count 1231 to 2026 potentially half a million bucks. So, okay. And it's it's good. I mean,

well, we're we're still in a black starting to come. We're still in the We're still in the black. We're still And the other thing too for this year, keep in mind we had we got and I forget what I forget what fund it was paid out of, but we had the $550,000 AT&T bill. Um that is also we use some of our cash reserves and that's all taken care of. That's all No, I know it's all paid. Yeah. So that's not going to show up. I know. So next year we won't have the 550 grand. So thank you for bringing that up. So when I was telling you about 1170 where we were using our method of we know we need to roll over this much money to that as one of those account lines so that we will not So you set it up for you can escrow that over the next 10 years

you cannot roll over an account I know I'm just I'm talking dollars I'm sorry except for except for roll over except for except for correct pardon except for I'm good with that I just do that and the last how do you escrow that kind money, you know, it's coming due. You trace it in the you trace it in the cash operating balance. Okay. So, you just taught me something. Okay. Well, that's what's got that appropriation dies, right, at the end of the year, right? Which is what's gotten us in trouble in the past because by the time year seven, eight rolls around, it's been forgotten about, right?

And so then we're scrambling with our hair on fire trying to come up with a half a million dollars. I want to fund that 50,000 every year into a non-reverting fund. What you want to have in the cash operating balance at the end of every year by 50,000 more than what you had last year, right? Until seven years from now, somebody forgets it and then we've lost it because we have, you know, this extra money. We're not going to even throw that out to the universe. The county is never going to go back to that timing. This is all going to be documented in I mean Darren I'm wondering Jackie there's

there's QCAP is not the only cumulative capital fund that we can use for this type of purpose right aren't there other ways that we can have a non-reverting capital cumulative cap to just safeguard maybe even the rainy day could be a cumulative I mean you can put 10% of your operating budget in rainy day every year now could we pull I mean that's probably not the best place to put like 911 las or is I'm asking for other options so we don't end up can we can we [clears throat] establish a non-reverting 911 fund that we fund 50,000 every year no or some other method you cannot move money from one fund to another yeah so how do we do that what's the best way to accumulate is it cash

but you see where that's risky right I mean it's like we can spend it's not risky I mean it's part of your well but we can still spend it if [laughter] we needed right which is not bad we would have to come you. Well, yeah, we have to budget it, but the only the only way it can be the world, right? But that's assuming all of us are going to be here 10 years from now and everybody remembers it and there's no human error. You have to maintain the documentation. That's what's never done. I know, but that's that there then you're introducing you're introducing human error. It's got a book that you transition to the next human. Oh, do you like read it and follow it? You read it and follow it.

I worked around and so whomever is leading the council to know that and educate as you go through each budget cycle. It's part of a budget procedure, a policy, an SOP, processes, processes, process document, and those have been perfect throughout the county. It's an internal control, right? But that's always been perfect throughout the county, hasn't what our goals are, too. Helps because man, I think we're done. All right, let's let's me recap what I think I heard Teresa outline for us. The end of the day, too. All right, everybody. Well, let's let's finish this. Yeah.

Uh 120 for the HSA. which was talked about being removed. The council removed it and and it's back in. So 120k. We had to do that. 50k for computer equipment which could come out of the go bond. Uh 13 and a half for lease agreements which could come out of the go could come out of the go bond which commissioners have authorization for in some at some level. 15k for security is operational. Probably not out of the go bond. Yeah, that cannot come out of the building.

So 120k for the HSA plus 13.5 for I'm sorry plus 15 135 plus $500 for vaccinations. That's $135,500. Is there something I'm missing? Because I thought we were at a million $135,500. Yeah, it wasn't. $135,500. Is that where I'm reading this right? Well, because now we know that we can do different things. Okay. So, it's not enough. Where do we need to take the $135,500 from council? You You need to pay. You need to pay it.

What else? A gift. Jim, 135,500 out of the health reserve fund or oper like where are we pulling the 135 from? They've got HSA securities. Well, HSA money needs to come out of the general fund. Okay. Okay. I mean, unless they can pull it out of the economic development. No, but what we're talking about is reallocating part of that million dollar reserve from the health fund. No, what we're talking about is cutting the premium back. It's 2.7 million to 2 million. Please come up to the podium and state your name and your I mean, they're not your pro. Well, no, your solution, right? No, but I don't

Mary's got a we got and this. Hey guys, everybody, hold on. Hold on. Listen to my chief deputy salary on the salary ordinance or not salary, his hourly pay is 12 cents less than the treasurer's chief deputy. And I don't think that's okay. And I was just questioning. Say that one more time. We have to lower the treasure.

The the Okay. Because in the past, now if everything's different now, okay, fine. But we were all the same like [snorts] treasure, [clears throat] auditor, not auditor, um reporter. And now it's a little different, but so AJ's my chief deputy salary or hourly pay is 1952 an hour. And excuse me, who who are you? And I'm Mary Smith. I'm a reporter. Okay. Sorry. I forget people don't know me. I've been here forever. I haven't. [laughter]

He hasn't. Sorry. Um, so anyway, no, it's just like our our deputy positions were always paid the same. I don't know. Now that's not what happened anymore. Trying to find you here. Um, so well on the salary ordinance, it's we're on page. [cough and clears throat] We don't have the salary ordinance. Yeah, I'm looking for recorder here. Sorry. Do you have a Do you have an account line in the salary? You don't have accountance either, do you? No, but I know what she's talking about. Well, the question is did his did his go down or did the others go up around him faster?

You're talking about 12 cents an hour. Is that what we said? I don't know what they were. We got While we're thinking about that, let's wrap up the 1355. Um, I'm going to talk with Jackie because she's kind of she's if you look at the salary, though. salary. I need to clear she's talking about this chief. Go ahead. Let's go. If you look at the salary ordinance, the chief deputy um recorder makes $40,686. And I'd cut that six cents out there. It will be.

And the county treasurer first deputy makes 40,85683. And I'd cut that 83 cents out of there. I would never have pennies in the salaries, but that's Well, that's that is about $248 more. Yeah, $248 more that the from the county treasur to the recorder and the salaries. They should be the same. Yeah, I think they should be the same. We should talk to them about that. Let's see.

I got a call. I'm going to talk to her. So, it's discrepancy there between quarters and treasurers, first deputies. We're we're skipping we're [clears throat] a little bit out of our channel here. We're we're skipping to salary or we still got budget issues. We still got budget issues. I want to know about the $700,000 back. Hold on. Hold on. Let's We've got this now. Let's Let's go ahead and get this

resolved and then we'll jump back to that. So 1355 is what we need to find, right? It's not and that's all that's a expensive cup and it's weak. I mean I don't but my wife need some

Jackie is educating on the on the 700,000 that you evidently have decided hold on a second. Are we talking salaries or are we talking I thought they were done. [cough] Yeah, we have clock. Okay. So, is that is that going to be something that comes up on our next meeting? We're going to have that by that by that time. What the Yeah, there's amendments. We know. Well, there's going to be a lot of coming up on this next meeting. That's what I'm saying. Is that is that going to are we going to have those amendment amendment? Okay. But you got to pay tomorrow, right? And so

you can always you can always back. Yeah, we can make adjustments. Yeah, we can we can make adjustments. That's minor. Good. If somebody's overpaid, they can make an adjustment on the next payroll or vice versa or underpaid. But we don't want to car carry that out too long because that accumulates too long. Yeah. So Jackie gohead. So on the on the reduction, Teresa was wanting to reduce the money in the edit fund and pay it out of county general backwards. Backwards. I wanted to reduce the money out of the county general out of county general and and pay it out of edit.

Here's my reasoning for the commissioners that that's probably not the best way to go. If you reduce the county general appropriation, that reduction is going to go into the cash operating balance. Anybody can come come ask for that money. The recorder, the treasurer, the assessor, the auditor can ask for a piece of that reduction that we did because it's sitting here in the cash. If you reduce it in the edit money, then that can only be requested by the county commissioners because that's a commissioner fund. Because that is a commissioner fund.

Okay. And since the group medical is basically a pretty much a commissioner's obligation, then if you need additional money at the end of the year, you could use that reduction out of the other fund. You don't even have to reduce it. You could just

say we're only going to pay 405. Leave the 700,000 there. And if you need it at the end of the year, it's there sitting there for you. There's no additional appropriation. There's no and the council would say yes, we're going to go ahead and spend that. Other than putting that 700,000 in the cash of the general fund that allows everybody to take to ask for it. That's just that's make us whole. Well, so all of these these changes, the 120 and the 15 and the five and all this that we were just discussing, where would that [clears throat] money come out?

Well, part the 102 they talked about coming out of the group medical and it's going down to HSA, right? Yeah. Mhm. Money that they put into the economic development is going into it's in the fund that be transferred into the medical. You've already transferred. We have not transferred it as. Okay. But that's why I'm saying you don't have to do all of it. You could just be part of it and

and it would still and it still would be there if you need it at the end of the year. If you have a big claim come through or something happens and you want to try and and you want to get to that million dollars or three quarter of a million because we went a half a million. We're at half a million. We're thinking and if we have a good another good year, we'll put another 250 in there and we still have 350 sitting. That's that's my number. I'm glad you said that. So, okay. So, I'm still not understanding where right now where would we transfer? Well, I mean, you look to see if you can transfer within and how much money are you talking um

outside of the HSA? Outside of the HSA, not much about Well, they never gave me a decision on the corner's office, the 735. What do you want to do? Where are you? You're asking for a vehicle. C council members. Council members, just the only the only thing if there's a need, I guess my concern is 50 grand for a brand new vehicle for the coroner's office. You know, do we not have another vehicle in inventory that we could put in there? Our department's got several Jeeps. Huh? We went down that road. Have we? All of our shoddy vehicles. Yeah. Um, planning and zoning has ran through two. We gave one to the We can't throw it in the back of the trunk.

We've actually been pretty good. Well, you could. You'd have to cut it up first. No, there is. We can [laughter] believe. Why not? So, all right. If Okay, I guess here's my question. Are you convinced that it's a bill? It's a huge need. Not an I want, but a need. We've already cut it and we got to pay it. Like it or not, it has to be paid. Okay. So, to answer that question, I would say that the the building equipment and all that we could probably keep out. Okay. Because we could probably find that within something, right? Because did we buy a new refri freezers last year, too? Add a couple freezers. Got that

and it was generator and we did some other stuff. Supposed to buy a vehicle last year and he never got to it. Okay. Now, can the equip can that come out of go? whole another year. Yeah. That car because we're going to finance it. I'll lease it possibly. No, let's pay cash for it. Let's pay. Let's Yeah. Let's I don't want to lease any cash. I do not want to waste money. Yeah. So, you think everything but the vehicle is needed? They're [clears throat] hard on that vehicle. All right. Let me ask you this. So, we're down to 50,000 for the vehicle. Yes, sir. So, if you just do 50,000 and then the other um the 15 and the five, you're five 70 grand. Whatever.

Let me ask you this. How much are you anticipating having in savings from the gas line that was not calculated right? We didn't calculate the revert. You got money sitting there and you said you get back the end there, but there's 20 30k, right? It'll be it'll be from

Let's buy a used Crown Vic. Throw it in the trunk. Who's going to brag? They had a lot of That's what the mob used to do, right? Throw it. You just throw the body in the trunk. So, we didn't spend it. So, now take it home. Cut it up. The small person have to cut it out. Well, they're talking that we can discuss policy here. And we got to go back to what we were talking about when the judge was up here about the meeting and what statute covers the fact that three guys in a room make financial policy for the county. How does that play out? We can't do that again. No. Right. No.

So what that doesn't play out. So it's got to come somehow before the council. is

well my recommendation would be for the commissioners definitely commissioners auditor council for you all to this I'm just talking on the thing of my head map out 20 2026 what are the dates what are the deadlines where did we screw up this year right because I I mean and I'm going to say this just real quick I really apologize probably didn't handle things very well not using this for an excuse But, you know, Christy got ill July the 8th of 2023. Died twice to the emergency room. You know, two years later, basically, she dies on May the 30th. June the 19th. I had the memorial service. I had no [snorts] business taking on those responsibilities. I should have never have done it. It was a huge mistake. I'm having difficult times now because, you know, actually, I probably should have resigned from the council when I found out that Christy had cancer because that was time I didn't spend with her. So, I apologize for it, you know, but I, you know, to me, Tim, I'm just gonna piggyback off of what you've recommended in the past, you know, get a policy in writing, timelines, right? Job, you know, everybody's role, how we communicate with the departments.

Well, and that of all this, you know, we learned a lot. We learned about that we're not utilizing cap the way we should, right? We actually even learned in the highway department how to spend 11736 better. I mean some good did come out of it. It's been janky and I gota tell you I wasn't really happy with you and I apologize. I apologize. Let me let me summarize on process. Um the council approved a budget when you admitted you didn't know what was in it. Okay. And then Scott, you you had a no, but we had six months to work on the budget. I had no idea on what changed on our budget. None. Absolutely none. That's why we did the spreadsheets. That's not okay.

Took us about what Teresa and I probably took a day or two and another half day to roll it up. You had 10 days after that October 20. 10 days to figure out what the hell changed. That was a matter of sitting down and what we did is we looked at what was approved, what we submitted in the form ones, and what changed. And you look, damn, there goes there goes a million dollar transfer. You didn't you didn't budget for a professional legal. We've got outstanding bills for that already. You didn't even know it. Nobody asked me. No one asked us at all. No one got back to us and asked us at all about any of these changes. If you want to know what the 3, five year plan, we could have had that conversation. This is all rework. This should have happened before the budget was approved. Lesson learned. I think we all learned a little bit, but it's outrageous to me to be surprised when it comes to this budget. How [cough and clears throat] Scott, how often have you have you talked about lack of capital improvement planning and budgeting? There's 40,000 you you unbudgeted there.

Yeah, that's that's for crying out loud. And then look at professional HR services. We've never had that. We've never had training for people. That cost us a significant amount of money this past year by not having that kind of training, that policy confirmed. And you know, it's just again on the attorney retainer kind of stuff, things pop up. I mean, we're making all these changes to these contracts. We're in in conversation with these. If there's a technical issue, it's not covered in our retainer. We got to use another partner uh there. If that continues, can we look at options for doing that? It's less expensive. Yeah. But we're not there yet. It's a matter of discovery. So, we've got two attorneys now working on issues that we were required to address. Okay. No question about it. It's not negotiable. But yet, that's unfunded. Nobody asked us. And so if you wanted a three to five year plan, yeah, we could have done that, but nobody asked us. And so that's what we expecting u once we submitted the form once for you to get back for everyone, all the departments come back and say, "Hey, here's what we're changing and why and here's what we're learning." That never happened. Okay. And the finance committee is is it has never worked as is I think what we were expecting. And I'm not and I think we all agree that doesn't need to be in Seymour, Indiana if it's to continue. And do you guys even know how your budget changed? Do you know you have 130,000 in professional services?

Yeah, I do. Yeah. We've never had that for the council. I've gone attending these council meetings for 2016. We never had that kind of expense to put the budget together. What did the budget cost us this year? 80,000 100,000 for RED be involved and develop a budget for the county. That's just outrageous, isn't it? Well, hang on, Tim. Be fairminded here for a minute, okay? I've not seen the invoices for REI for 2025 [snorts] and what they charged us, but what I am aware of is they spent a two months taking care of payroll in the auditor's office. Took that 30,000.

That was expensive. And then we had they also went in and Caitlyn Schaefer went in and did quite a bit of work with reconciliation of all the funds uh in the auditor's office as well. So you had Jerry Hickman, which was the council, you had the the the whoever the people were that did the payroll, and then you had the cost for the reconciliation. Not saying they didn't do the work, but did they need to do the work? Um, what was that gap that we needed to pay that kind of money for that? We never have in the past.

I mean, in the past, if you guys recall, this thing, this budget thing was settled maybe about a month after the final hearings when everybody presented their budget. I mean Dave Chryser was famous for that is when they presented the budget we had a number we had a target to hit and then when people presented their budget he goes scratch that scratch that scratch that scratch that done. The problem with that is we always scratch the health insurance fund because it always overthrew the budget. Yeah. Or something else that was we always knew it needed 700. We'll take that out. We balanced the budget but yet at that point we never never anticipated be proactive to put that in and make the changes that we did.

Finally we did on the health insurance. That's a systemic change and and I think we expect we have a higher probability that maybe maybe that will be uh more stable than what we've ever had in the past because we changed made systemic changes to that which is a positive thing. So I'd like to see that projection expect a million dollars in there based on on past history. I'd like to see the actual analysis, written analysis and discussion to say that we all agree. Can anybody here explain to me all the stuff that we talked about when it came to health insurance? I mean, I've got to see it in writing. I've got to see the I've got to see the analysis. I've got to see the projections. And if you had the projections, we'd say, "Okay, are we on target of hitting that projection or not?" And I know if anybody saw my presentation back in February when we first had after the first finance committee meeting, I I did a presentation. I took the goals that we had for the county. The commissioners or the council identified and and briefed that and said, "Hey, here's where we're at." And then things just came off the hook and and Jim, I with your personal circumstances, we can certainly understand that and thanks

and say, "Okay, um but going forward really need to look at that. I want to be able to present at least monthly here's where we're at and here's the strategies we're taking every month, right? You know, maybe some months don't change, but at least you raise people's awareness saying, "Hey, here's our target. Here's what we're doing. Here's the changes that we're making by year 1, year two, year three, year four, year five." Never could do that. Never got that information out of really because they were chasing different things. Um, and and again, it's that kind of process. And when it comes to the budget, that's very defined. The state defines very hard targets. We just need to back up. You take those hard targets and back up and say, "This is what the hell we got to do. before we get to this point. It's actually pretty simple. It is pretty simple.

It's pretty simple. It is pretty simple. We can over complicate it very easily, but we got to just keep it simple and stay focused on the hard deadlines. But I mean, you know, you just all the things we're doing here were great. It should happen back in back in summer. Yeah, absolutely. Should happen back in the summer. It should be happening next month in our next meeting and every meeting thereafter with different department heads, different budget matters. Can we get the two to three year cumap planning? I didn't even know that existed. So, I didn't ask. It was brand new, you know. Yeah, we I didn't hear about it. I tried to listen to meetings. I didn't see it anywhere. I would have asked, but I didn't know it existed. So,

I'm sorry. Can I add one more comment before we pause and I agree with you totally. Um I just I just did get a response on the uh tourism. Um, there's a statute 6-9-18-4. Wait, hold on. What? A response from who? State Board of Council. What was the question? What is it? The question was, can we spend visitors bureau money on salaries? What was the statute again? My question was, can salaries and maintenance of a local park be paid from inkeepers tax?

The council was saying is saying without the people maintaining the parks, the parks could not be promoted. That was the statement that was made. The response came back. She gave me the statute and she highlighted um money in in a convention visitor and tourism promotion fund or money transferred from such a fund under subsection B may be expended only to promote and encourage conventions, visitors, and tourism within the county. Expenditures under this subsection may include but are not limited to expend expenditures for advertising, promotional activities, trade shows, special events, and recreation. Recreation.

Yeah. So, that's the code site. I just wanted to give that to you. One other thing and wait just Okay. But I mean, you're talking about parks and recreation and a recreational facility. You can't have that, right? So recreation is kind of like what it takes to have a recreational Well, you can't have like recreation with no and that's where you go to your attorney to to get your but that's that's the statute for you. What was the statute again? Uh 6-9-18-4. Okay. Yeah. And we've talked to multiple, you know, Jim's had I don't know how many conversations. We have multiple attorneys from multiple like your attorney attorney. county attorney is the one that's going to defend you in a court of law. Yeah.

So, what what direction your county attorney gives you is the direction you should be able to follow. So, thank you for that. Y blocking you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um I don't have all of you. We'll get to Julie and she can shoot it out.

So, the last thing I wanted to bring up was all the changes that are coming up. I just want you to be aware that the county share in the in new income tax um is 1.2. That's what the county is entitled to uh in the base and we're fighting to keep that because cities and towns are wanting part of it. But the we had an analysis done by uh policy analytics and to stay revenue neutral with the current income taxes that we collect our rate would have to be boon or Brown County's rate would have to be 1.2844. So we currently aren't revenue neutral with the 1.2. Now, there are some other options in there and they're still working on things, but right now there's legislation that was testified against and for yesterday that anything a county doesn't use of the 1.2 the city can pull.

So, I just wanted to make you aware that currently that 1.2 sitting out there and this isn't until 28, but it's still something we got to we'll have to adopt it in 27. So, it's in our near future. I did see that, Jackie. Just real quick on the revenue neutral number, the 1.28. I saw that and we're one of several counties in our district that have that kind of offset. There are 15 counties that the 1.2 won't fund. Yeah. If they do what AI is proposing, taking it to a 7, there are 63 counties in the state of Indiana that would not fund or would not be revenue neutral with their income.

Well, that was my question. When you say revenue neutral, you mean like a structurally balanced budget or what? what you're collecting today that 1.2 you would not be able to collect it in in that year. You're going to you would it would take 1.28 to collect the same amount of money that we're collecting today anymore because of the distribution your levy freeze and that's because of the distributions that are going to start there won't be any distributions out of it. You get to keep the whole 1.2. I highly encourage you if you have the opportunity, if you can't come both days, at least come Wednesday of the legislative committee uh conference, policy analytics is going to be there to discuss all of this. What day are they there? Remind they're there Wednesday.

Wednesday. Wednesday the 28th. And it'll be it's it's morning in the morning. Okay. Yeah, that's the second day, right? Yeah.

I highly encourage you to go online and register uh and come. They're also going to be talking about um uh house the joint resolution that is yeah that's out there to open the constitution and eliminate the elections of the auditor, the recorder, the treasurer surveyor, everybody but the sheriff and clerk and you guys neither of you boards. And we're having a class on Tuesday morning on how to re how to communicate and rebrand your county or educate your county constituents on rebranding.

How seriously is that bill to eliminate elections being taken by anybody? I mean, is anybody pretty serious? Well, it's been it's been in No, I mean, at the legislature, is is it just the one guy being radical about it or does he have other people on board? She's not very well known. I am not familiar with the legislator. She's from Delaware County. Oh, she's from Delaware. Are there Are there other legislators on board with that?

I don't know that yet. It just came out last week. But if you There was a lot of discussion uh late in the summer and early fall of the elimination of county assessors. And this is kind of just another ploy to get in there and start eliminating. And the big issue of that is is we lose all cross, check, and balance. Yeah. So, those things that I think are pretty important. If you can't make it crazy about this,

if you can't make it to the Tuesday morning class, it is going to be recorded and you can still register for it and watch it online later. It'll be a week or so later, but we've got Ball State University coming in to that class to discuss communications that you can do both social and on social media and and um publicly to help brand and and educate the people on what your office does and what the county stands for as a county. So, just some things I wanted to bring up to you. All right, back to the seventh and am I understanding this right? We don't need to do anything 700. So there's nothing we need.

So that's an internal transfer then. Well, you'll you'll trans you have to transfer the 120 from the HSA to into HSA from the general fund. Do they have to vote on that today? Um can they vote on that? We can't unless they're not going to pay it. So they can vote on it at their next meeting. Okay. And then it that takes it really down to 600,000 that's going to sit in economic development and just sit there until you decide if you need it. And if you don't need it, then it will stay in the cash balance. So what does this economic development fund? What does this do to the 4,700?

Well, it does what Jim said. You'll have a half a million there instead of a million transferred into you got you got you have a million in there. It's a bucket. You're going to pump another two million in it. Now you got three million and you hope that our claims are only 2 and a.5 million. So we're we're reducing that by 7. Well, we don't know because you don't know what the claims are going to be. It's not going to be. That's why not that's why I say don't reduce that appropriation. Leave it there. Well, I thought you said we can control that. It can change. They can the commissioners. They can't spend it with they can't transfer it anywhere without you guys.

Okay. So, I mean, as long if there's a good reason you come to us and and we need it, we we can use it. you haven't but you also can look at it in October, November and say hey I think we need to put part of that in usually put it in okay so the only action need is 120k trans is a health issue anyway yeah that's I like that kind of so the 700,000 in the 700,000 in um ABC edit was the 700,000 we put into the 47 700, but you're going to take 120,000 of that. No, in the in the edit fund, he doesn't have this.

In the county general fund, there's 1.1 million appropriated. We're going to take 120,000 and move it into the HSA from Did you say general fun? From the commissioner's line item, Health Group Medical in the general fund and put it into their line item HSA in the because that's a h 100,000 in the edit fund. They will only transfer um 45 405,000. [clears throat] No, they'll have to do 525,000 to pick up that 525,000. The other 11 105 I think is what's over there

will just sit there in the appropriation and then the council and the commissioners can look at it later on in the year and if it's needed instruct the auditor to move it on. So, how is how is this how is this affecting 4,700? It will affect, as Jim said, instead of having a million dollars at the end of the year, if everything goes like it did this year, you'll only have a half a million if you don't move any more over. So, instead of the 3.6, we're putting we're dedicating 3.1. No, no, no, no. Stop. Okay, let's back up here. Let's back up.

I'm with you. in the 2026 budget with the 700 grand that was added to the 405 and the economic development fund plus the other monies 100 grand coming out of the health department highway the the money coming out of the general fund out of the commissioner's budget all that was $2.7 million. Correct. Okay. So, what we're not going they're not going to do is they are not going to transfer those buckets of money into the 4700 account because if they transfer those line items that we appropriated those funds to into the 4700, you can't get them back out.

It has a check valve. It's a oneway. So, all we're going to do it has got a check valve on it. All we're going to all they're going to do is they're going to transfer 2 million into the 47 and leave everything else where it is and then if they need it they can access it and do whatever they want. So when they come back to us for more of that money we've got to keep in mind and recognize that we are further reducing the reserves of the 4700. unknown is we don't know the client but what I'm saying is everything I know but but as it comes to it if it comes to us in future meetings that's what we got to remember we are further reducing it quarterly the reserve yeah yeah and the the only request then just is this is a disclosure okay

you know I'm a troublemaker right yeah okay that's an understatement I'd call it I'm a troublemaker all right you know independent as hell and by you know bullheaded blah blah blah Um, Robert, I'm having ethical issues personally. This is a personal problem. Has nothing to do with you guys. Okay. Well, then leave us out of it because I don't want to hear. So, the only thing I would, you know, you don't have to, but I cannot bring myself to vote on something when I haven't been able to read it and digest it and understand it. Yeah. In advance.

Okay. So, we have covered so much stuff today and you I'm assuming you got to put this into a a resolution so at our next meeting in January we can pass all these appropriations. Correct. That's what plan is. Okay. [clears throat] Is it too much to ask just to have one page two page you know here's the department blah blah and just it line you know lines it through so you can look at you know exactly what we're doing. You know, I'm going to send you guys a bill. Huh? I'm gonna send you guys a bill. Okay. But you've already got that stipen we're paying you, so we're good. Well, let's take And I made your job a pay grade 14 back in 2024.

Yeah. Well, let's not split hairs, but use your gas money instead of taking all of 120 like put your gas if you can. Yes, that's going to be that's come. Yeah. So, that's going to be a push that can come back. Yes. Well, that'll have to be an additional. Is that an additional then? And that does that become too big of a pain? I mean, I don't want to. So, yeah, let's just put it to work. You're right. And I move we adjourn. Yeah. Be second. Thank you. Okay. I just want to tell you a last little thing. Your river boat currently is at 385,000 and your rain day is currently at 231. How did the river thought we used that for something? I don't think anybody touched it all year. It continues. It continues to get distribution.

We took the money out for the grant. That $500,000 grant. I'm getting us confused. What grant? Well, that the one that you just got you kicked in. That came from Riverboat, didn't it? That was Yeah, that was what it was. Yeah, we used it for O. Yeah, right. That's what you just said. We're 400 grand on a river boat. That's why it's not Yeah. Well, that's a nice surprise cuz the river boat I'd like to see you guys use that for grant matches. We want to repair the river boat. That's what we did. [laughter] All you got to do is find a whole another We don't have enough time for that conversation.

Yeah, but don't you have to get that one road back open in order to get to the river to get on river [laughter] that we found that I wanted to tell you we had budgeted 161,000 for centerstone and when we finally got the invoice it was only 128,000. So that's another savings that we didn't know was going to come down. Well, that's because I stopped going in there for psychological help. I [laughter] need you to You want to go back a little? We weren't going to bring that up. He stopped going in and talking to him. You put that back thing, so we didn't. [laughter] All right. So, we journed. Are we okay? We're doing okay if you're okay. Thank you, Jackie. Thank you.