Board of Commissioners - Regular Meeting

Check one, two. Check. One, two.

I got that was pretty good. 30 bucks. Okay. Hold on a second. Camera.

Call the Brian County Board of Commissioners meeting to order. Start the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. Any additions to the agenda or changes? I'm good.

I don't have any. I have one change on the ordinance and resolutions. So, I'll move the prosecutor's office bot resolution up to the top before the music center discussion. Um, it's the only change I have. Okay. Next is approval of minutes and claims. I read them, reviewed them. I didn't see any issues that stood out. So, I would make a motion that we approve the minutes and the claims. I'll second. Okay. Ron Sanders, how do you vote? Yes. Tim Clark, yes. Kevin Patrick,

yes. Okay, our first agenda item is the appointment of our new highway superintendent, Sander Pool. Um, as as you know, we've had a vacancy. We posted a position, interviewed the most qualified candidates, and selected Sandra. Uh, the appointment process, a vote to appoint is the final step in in the process. Do I have a Do I have a motion? I'll make a motion that we appoint Sandra Pool as the new highway superintendent. Okay. Is there a second? I'll second vote. Tim Clark, how do you vote? Yes. Kevin Patrick, yes. Ron Sanders staying. Okay. Sanders, congratulations.

Used to see me out there. It's like it's a change. It's that old names thing. So, welcome. And you don't need to read those reports into the record. I I learned. So, that's good. Um, Helmsburg RSD, Kyle Meyers, you're on, bud. Uh, is that mic set up? Thank you, Eric. Is that on? Okay.

Um, Conor Myers. I'm the vice president. I'm Trevor of the Hump Region Service Report. Um, just giving you an update as to where we're at with acquiring or building a new wastewater treatment plant in Helsburg. Um, we actually just heard from SRF State Revolving Fund the other day. Um, we were waiting on a interlocal agreement between us and BCSD. Um, we did not get that agreement. Um, and SRF finally yesterday said don't need it. Um, and for us to move forward with bidding uh, our treatment plant. So, first advertisement for bids will be in the paper next Wednesday. Um, I'll be dropping off the advertisement tomorrow for the Democrat. Um, second advertisement a week after that and we'll be opening bids, I believe, at our June meeting. Um, so first Wednesday in June. I don't know the date off top of my head, but um, it's been more than a struggle for us to get to this point. Um, more so just really in dealing with Brown County RC. um they've made every attempt to delay us um and not really kind of holding up their end of the bargain as we've been going through this. Um back in I know I was here in January kind of gave an update but in December when we had a joint meeting between us the NSRF um the original schedule was supposed to be that we would be closing on funding this fiscal year which ends um June of this year. um uh for us to get a treatment plan or to start construction on a treatment plan. Um BCRSD was supposed to have plans pretty well ready so that they could approach SRF this next fiscal year for funding

for it. um in December they only had 60% plans um and had no easement signed at that point in time and SRF said you're you're not close enough to be able to you know to be bidding this. So they took our treatment plant from what was designed as 100,000 gallons per day uh down to 14,000 gallons per day. Um repeat that for me Kyle. What was it again? Originally designed for our treatment plant was to handle 100,000 gallons a day. Okay. To treat the waste. Um at that meeting SRF basically told us that they were only going to fund us for a 14,000 gall.

Okay. Thank you.

So that'll really accommodate us. Currently we average about 6 to 7,000 gallons a day through our current plant. Um, so I mean we'll be able to at least still maintain our current customers but plus have some flexibility to add on people. Um, the add-ons for us right now are pretty well limited because we're already ex, you know, pretty much at our boundaries or our district or the sewer district. So, um I know, uh I was shocked cuz I saw last week that they posted they being Brown County RC um that they were uh putting the Bean Blossom project on pause and in their post said due to funding. Um I've then since heard um even from SRF that the what they were told was that they don't have the support and being blossom like they thought they did. So that's why they were putting it on pause. Um so I don't know which to believe. I also know they were just given $3.7 million um from Aaron Hton's office uh to do more design between Bean Blossom and Lake Lemon. So, um, our frustration from Helmsburg standpoint at this point is I know there's been a ton of money spent, um, trying to get sewers and bean blossom and then all of a sudden we're going to put it on pause again and I don't know why. Um, I also know that in order for them to even approach SRF or any other funding agencies for a project, you pretty well have to have bid ready plans in place and then say, "We've got plans ready to go. You know, here's our estimated cost or whatever to do this. You know, will you give us

funding?" So, if they're nowhere near if they're only 60% plans and no easements, they'll signed. I don't know how they're saying there's no money out there for them to construct it. Um, and then my fear is they spent a ton of money already trying to do something in Bean Blossom and now they're going to stop that and they're going to take $3.7 million and do what with it? Um, so, um, I also know on our standpoint, um, because SRF changed our design from 100,000 gallons per day to 14,000, um, we have incurred at least another $150,000 in fees from our engineering firm to redesign those plans. And we don't even have that money to pay them. So, they're kind of sitting, they've done the design, we're ready to go to bid, but they're kind of sitting there hoping one way they're going to get paid. And I don't have a way to pay them. But, um, kind of my opinion at this point in time was the reason that had to be done was really strictly due to Brown County RSD giving me some of that $3.7 million so I can pay my engineer for, you know, getting our plans to where we need to be. Um, I know from Hillberg's RSD standpoint, we are more than happy to take over territory from Beam Blossom and Lake Women and we will make this happen. Um, I can't guarantee you time frames cuz that's 100% dependent on funding. Um but we will work towards one getting our new plant constructed but then at least getting plans ready for bid for sewers of bean blossom and sewers of lake lemon and then when we're approached for funding we can offer you know a couple different projects and say we got this one bean blossom we got this one to

start our project towards lake lemon which one can you fund um and go to that highway so it's it's got to be phased out in each direction in several different phases to accomplish it because to try to go even to bean blossom is you know their estimate in December was around $11 million and that wasn't even accounting us having to upgrade our plan again to accommodate it. So, I know through SRF they usually say $6 million is kind of the magic number of what they'll give out as grant funds and then after that it's usually loan. Um, and quite frankly, I mean, even from our standpoint, we can't really even afford a loan even for our plant. So, we're pretty well getting most of our money as grant funded to be able to do it because otherwise then our users rates skyrocket. So, um I know I've thrown a lot at you. Um we've been working tirelessly on this myself for five plus years being on the board. Um and I'm thrilled to death that we're finally moving forward and bidding our project and hopefully getting a new treatment plant cuz our existing one's on the brink of failure at any point in time. Um I'm just kind of hoping that it holds out until the new one comes online. similar. Um, and then like I say, my frustrations then just lie with

dealing with Brown County RSD and just not making any headway with them whatsoever. So, okay. How much did you get funded for the uh for the current is it a a replacement or an upgrade? Brand new treatment plant. Brand new treatment plant. Okay. For the 14,000 or

14,000 gallons. Yes. There. So, our current plant is a metal package plant that was put in around 19 1996. Um, life expectancy on that plant was really only about 20 to 25 years. So, obviously we're pushing 30 years around on it. Um, the new plant that we're building is what they call it's an aeromod technology. Um, but it's really going from a small little package plant to an actual treatment plant more so like what even Nashville or some or a bigger utility would have that's then easily expandable, you know, when we need to. We can just, you know, design an add-on and another train or two or whatever we need to to get to the capacity that's needed.

Yes. Uh, is that the one with like a big round tank with a wand that goes around? No. Um, this one I I know I've seen the designs on it, but it's it's actually kind it's inside rectangular a rectangular tank. Um, but then inside of it is got kind of different cells in there and within that tank that does different treatment processes. Um, and then it does also include a a main influence lift station where everything comes into it and then it pumps from that up into the plant to be created. Is the top covered or open?

It's open. It's it's really it's really difficult to cover um the tanks of a treatment plant um because of the really corrosive H2S gases and everything else. You I mean you cover it with any type of a building, it's going to just eat away. Does that shoot oxygen in it at any time to like

Yes. Yeah. There's there will be a building that's built um on our site that will house blowers. Um, currently we even have blowers right now, but they just sit on top of our plant with a little plastic hut over them. Um, so now they'll actually be inside of a building. Um, it'll be even quieter than what it is now, which we don't really get much complaints from noise or smell from our treatment plant. There are certain days, you know, immediate neighbors, depending on the wind or something like that, they may catch a whiff of something every once in a while, but um but it's it's usually not a consistent or an issue. So,

so Kyle, when we I think you came in either late last year or earlier this year, January, was it January? Yeah. See, time flies. It is the So, the 67,000 gallons a day is what you're operating at. And you're saying going 14. I think last time you mentioned there's a reserve that you try and maintain, right? You don't operate at maximum 14 account. Correct. Once we start hitting 80% capacity, 80%

um even I mean our operator is doing u monthly reports that he has to submit to IDM. Um and IDM will even flag us if all of a sudden they start seeing that we're encouraging that 80% capacity as an average flow coming in. and basically would approach us and saying, "Okay, you're really starting to get close to your limit. What's your plan for for upgrading?" So, okay. And then the other thing that mentioned like the state revolving fund, you said the maximum grant funding that they typically contribute to is $6 million. Is that per project? Is that per phase or is that I mean, it's usually per project?

Per project. Okay. Now, I've I've heard and I it just I think it depends with them, but a lot of times even when you go for a project like with SRF, sometimes they make you like once you complete it, they make you kind of they're probably not going to put you on their top priority list right away, you know, right after that for a couple years, you know, unless you've got a real true dire need that you're going saying this has to happen. then I think that's when they kind of take the special circumstances of it and look into it and say, "Okay, you know, we could fund you for for something else again." But um but I think you'd have to have darn good reasoning as to why you're approaching them early in a sense to do it. So, but in my opinion, if you're saying, you know, you've got major issues with failed septics or whatever in one direction or the other or really desperate need for it, that's that in my opinion might be a special circumstance that they look into saying, "Okay, we'll fund you for another project."

All right. Well, Kyle, I reached out I talked to the or emailed out to the SRF, the director, Jim McFin. He came back and I was curious on the 85% number. He said, "Yeah, um, they asked the BC RSD to provide all potential customers with an estimate of what their monthly rate would be and request acknowledgement from interested customers to gauge interest. They use this method um in unseured areas and have suggested 85% participation of state fund grants are being requested. So that that that those requests didn't go in. And so then I saw on the and you mentioned I saw on their website that they identified, hey, we're we're pausing or indefinitely delaying Bean Blossom and focusing on uh Blake Lemon because they got that $3.7 million. If I remember, was it a couple years ago? Didn't you both get like free money? I forget what they called it. They call it a loan, but really it was you didn't had to pay back. You didn't both get about a million dollars.

It was forgivable loan. Yeah, we we were received a million dollar one. Um and that was for design of our treatment plant. Okay. and didn't

they my understanding is they received around the same time maybe a few months afterwards they received a little more than a million dollars to do design um for the sewer system to bean blossom cuz even from the beginning when we were both talking with SRF SRF was saying okay your schedules need to be delayed by a year one because we need to have a treatment plan up and running before we can really accept new flow but then at the same time and they wanted to make sure that, you know, if they're going to give us money for a plant that they're really close behind us for putting in sewers. And when that all of a sudden wasn't happening, you know, based back in December when they were talking about schedules, it sounded like they were more like, you know, two years out before they're even going to be approaching SRF with, you know, with a project that they could fund. So having more than 6 months to a year lag and having close to 2 years then that's when SRF's like okay Helmsburg at least needs the plant we're giving them the plant you know and then they even said at that meeting in December that when they were ready for a project for sewers for bean blossom to come to us they would also have to account in their funding request to upgrade our plant. So, which at the time when they were just throwing out numbers, our engineers said it'd probably be about a $2 million upgrade to go, you know, to a bigger plan as to what was needed for, you know, to accommodate that. So,

okay. If the area, if your area was expanded west to include Lake Lemon, and you had the resources to do, how would that work? Um would you would you want to take charge of the any kind of the engineering? Yeah. How would Okay. So you want the whole whole package. You

I mean our preference I mean our preference would be in my opinion I don't think you can just completely get rid of that sewer district alto together because I think if you did that you'd lose every penny of funding that was given to them including that $3.7 million. But in my opinion, the county, you guys, you know, the people that appointed them need to basically take back control of that district. And then you can allocate out, you know, to even us or whomever else to say, okay, we want to take on the the, you know, the district from Bean Blossom, Lake Lemon. Um, and then whatever current projects that are ongoing right now, we want to take those over and see those through. And then if there's funding available right now to for that area, then we want to take that on to be able to start doing the design kind of in both directions. And in our opinion, we would do it more or less simultaneously. You know, our clients being constructed that's going at least be okay, the plans are 60% to bean blossom. What do we got to do to get those at least bid ready, you know, and okay, let's charge forward on that, but then at the same time, okay, what's the phase getting towards Lake Lemon? You know, I know it'll be a lot, but I mean, in my opinion, is as desperate need as it is in Lake Lemon, and I know there is need in Bean Blossom. It might not be the same amount of need, but if you've already spent the money to get to 60% in Bean Blossom, why aren't you finishing it? Like, you know, we've already got the contracts in place with the engineering firms, everybody else to get bid ready documents. Where's my bid ready documents? You know, I mean, finish that out, you know, bid it out to engineering firms to do the design to Lake Lemon and get that going and figure

out how many phases you're going to have to do. both of those projects into to make it reasonable projects to then approach SRF with as time goes on to say, okay, here's phase one of bean blossom, here's phase one lake, you know, and then here's our next phases of it as to what that would look like. So, okay. I guess the final question I have and then um you mentioned on the rates you you did the you estimated what the rates would be and then you you gave options at $1 19250 versus $17. Um then you so you met SRF requirements for contacting your customers on utility rates and getting their acknowledgement and agreement as to what that was going to be that change. Yes.

Okay. I figured that was it. And then I think

we we haven't so at our we had a public meeting in January where we first kind of announced that those two options cuz from the beginning like our as a board as a board our objective was our rates are already high at 9250. Whatever we need to do or whatever we can do to try to keep them at that or even maybe a minor increase that that was our goal. Um, in order for us to do that, looking at the rates and everything for this project, and and when I say this project, this is us getting the new plant and then just maintaining our current customer base. We'll be able to add 10 customers onto our current customer base with this project, but our customers are the only ones that are paying for that operations of that plant right now,

you know. Um, so at that to keep it at 9250, we were basically going to have to turn over the control of the individual grinder station and the controls at everybody's house over to the property owner. So moving forward, something happens to it, you got to call your own plumber, whatever, come out and fix it. If pump goes bad, you got to replace the pump. Pumps aren't cheap. They cost us close to $2,000 just to buy the pump, you know. So,

I mean, our our preference was that we keep maintaining those grinder stations like we currently do. Um, because we know our customers can't, you know, they're barely affording the 9250 a month that we're charging them. But that's what we got to have to to maintain things that if they get hit with a $2 $3,000 bill because their pump just went out, you know, how are they going to be able to pay that plus still keep paying the 9250? So then we looked at it of okay, that's option one. If if you know, we want to keep it at 9250, that's what we'd have to do. Option two is if we keep maintaining everything like we currently are, our rates would have to go up to about $117 a month. So, at our public meeting, you know, we addressed that. We presented that to at least the users that were there, and we even took a vote during that meeting with our users that were there. Every single user that was in the room said, "Raise it to 117."

Um, we also wanted to we still would like to try to get as much input from our current users as we can. So, even in our u our March billings, we sent out a survey with all of our bills to every single one of our users and said, "Here's the option. Here's what we're doing. Here's the options that we're presenting to you. What do you want to do?" Um, out of I've only gotten I didn't only got a handful of responses even from that one. Um, I don't know if I've gotten any responses, maybe just delayed yet. Um, but I've only had one person respond that basically said, "No, keep it at 9250." And then I've got um I think 27 or 28 responses of raise it to 117 and then everybody else is just hasn't responded or hasn't chosen vote. So

I'm curious that question. You had more customers. Does the rate stay the same, go down, go up? if we didn't have more customers, the potential is is that we could reduce that rate over time. Um, again, the biggest factor in that is really just dependent on the funding we get to do those projects. If it comes in and it's mostly or all grant funded, then then we have a good chance to be able to reduce those rates, you know, across the board. Um, you know, if obviously if we got to acquire a loan, we just got to take that into account whenever we're doing that. So,

whatever happened to the SR SR policy where they tried to keep it targeted at $85? That's I get that was a few years ago and inflation's gone up, but wasn't that a goal at one time for them to keep the rates down?

It's still their goal. Um, I think that number has gone up a little bit just as the years go on. But that's still their goal when they're looking at a project from the standpoint of, okay, how much can we allocate as a grant versus a loan to this one. And and even when our rate consultant does their studies, they're looking at several different options of, okay, if if it's 100% loan, rates this. If it's 50% loan, this is what your rate is. if it's, you know, 95% loan and 5% or, you know, sorry, 95% grant, 5% loan, this is what your rate is and and just trying to kind of show them how that rate number goes based on the funding that they're going to give to you. So, and again, that's why if you're aiming for 100% grant, you know, funded, you got to try to really keep it close to that $6 million project and then you stand a good chance of potentially getting it so long as they have that much grant funding available.

Okay. So, just from the back of the napkin calculation here, assuming 80% of this 14,000 and you said 92 customers currently. Now, currently we have 64. 64. Okay. So, there's another 32 to add to this. So, you if you go with your 80% capacity, you're looking at 85 customers you potentially could build in the plant capacity. Yes. Okay. Okay. Well, Kyle, address your question on on on the boundaries thing. Hang on.

He's got a question. Sorry. I don't know that you ever even got there or I missed it, but with the Brown County Regional Sewer District, they never got far enough along to say how much their monthly fee would be, did they?

Uh they were being given some number because we both hired the same rate consultant. So, they were given numbers all along as we were. Um and the way that it was working out is of that rate, you know, this is the amount that is needed to treat the waste at the plant and then this is how much is needed, you know, to do all the your administrative, your bookkeeping, whatever for the customers and the collection system. So the treatment rate was the same rate that we were applying to our customers as what they were applying to their customers, but then they would have additional costs on their end based on how are they going to maintain and operate their collection system, how are they going to do their billings and all that kind of stuff. Um there was talks of like, well, can we help them out? And when we were looking at that and talking to like our insurance agent, things like that, our insurance agent's like, "Well, you can't have your people go work on somebody else's stuff cuz that's they're not insured to do that. You know, it's got to be your assets." So when we went back and talking with them, we're like, the only way if you want us to basically have our bookkeeper doing the billings and our operator and stuff and our maintenance personnel maintaining it, is that anything you put in the ground then has to become our assets in order for us to do that. And they didn't like that answer. Um, so now they're basically going to end up kind of doubling or, you know, adding more expense on their end because now they got to hire their own maintenance personnel. They got to hire their own bookkeepers and that kind of stuff in order to do that. So their rates probably if that's the way they wanted it and when we were trying to do this interlocal agreement, that's how we

set it up. We were basically treating them as a wholesale customer. you know, okay, if you're sending this many customers to us, here's your monthly bill every month. You divide that out however you need to between those customers, you know, and then then those numbers were looking different like our rates were going to be different from what their rates were going to be. I don't know what that number was, but okay, I know they were getting it. Well, isn't the same scenario going to play out? Okay, they they put the bean blossom on hold, they go over to Lake Lemon. is that's not the exact same scenario going to happen there. Yes. And then want to tie in that your insurance company's going to say that

they're gonna have to hire their own personnel to maintain and operate that system and we're going to treat them as a wholesale customer and say here's your treat here's the the rate we're charging you every month to treat that waste. So then it's going to be higher rate than yours possibly. And then our rate won't really change. your rate what our rate probably would not change. We'd have to maintain what it is because ours is based on us maintaining our current collection system plus you know are treating the you know the waste from our customers. So

okay that you're assuming the customers go along with whatever the higher rate it's going to be for that particular service in in Iowa. Is there any feasibility that if they're down around Lake Lemon to possibly start their own sewer plant down there instead of pumping it all the way back this way? They can, but we did a study I want to say four years ago. Um,

the Apple Morgan Hometown Engineering. Um, basically SRF just paid Hometown Engineering to do do that study to look at, you know, okay, if you need sewers in Bean Blossom, you need sewers in, you know, Lake Lemon and Helmsburg already has a plant and they need an upgraded plant, you know, what's the most feasible option in doing that? And they looked at, you know, well, if you put a plant over at Lake Lemon, then it's this much. If you put a plant in at bean blossom, it's this much. And what it really came down to was to regionalize and if we've already got a plant up and going and you know and upgrade it that we were more or less the central hub between them all

you know that you're you're more ideal is send it all over to Helmsburg and upgrade our plant as necessary and then you know maintain and operate basically the whole thing. So

the conclusion from that study for the Brown County RSD was to create a new plant in in Bean Blossom. Okay. if you recall. Um and then uh they couldn't acquire land. Um didn't have support of the land owners to acquire land for a new plan, Bean Blossom. And then they tried to get the park land um land that was deed uh to the state that deed back to the county deed park and tried to get park land put a new plan in and DNR shut that one down. So at that point the bean blossom sewer project that's that's been on in the dream for 20 to 30 years kind of died to have a a plant in Bean Blossom and then then the the magic was okay let's have Helensburg be the be the regional hub for for treating waste and so then they still kept at that time the whole idea was to have a separate RSD for bean blossom and then it came that then you had two RSDs one to collect and one to process and you know I I never quite understood kind of the logic of that. Um but that's kind of where we're at. So I'll give you a little history. It's a bureaucratic challenge on the territories and be glad we'll take a look at that. Um little history on the Helmsburg RSD. The commissioners petitioned IDM to create uh the Helensburg RSD in 1995. The commissioners petitioned IDM for the knob plant 1997. Uh we appoint the we appoint the the uh board members to Helmsburg Nabone IDM allowed them to have uh their customers elect their their board. So their customer elected the bean blossom what was unique is the council petitioned ID them uh to create a a bean blossom RSD the county council and then the county council appoints four of the five members commissioners appoint one. So the bean blossom that was in 2006. In 2013 the the then bean blossom RSD petitioned

the county commissioners at the time asked the bean blossom RSD to expand their territory. So the bean blossom RSD went to IDM and IDM approved it. That was in 2013. Then the name changed from the Bean Blossom to the Brown County RSD happened in February 26. And I believe and then the point of that one is when Bean Blossom the goal was to to get service from Nashville. Um and then Evan Worling was the president of the RSD at that time. And so Nashville wanted to tie annexation to that and blew it up. Um blew it up. Um and that that was the end of that one. Then Evan tried to get Evan Willing tried to get a need study done in the bean blossom area called a boots on the ground. I don't know if you remember all the all the Star Wars battles that went on during that. The boots on the ground and uh and the health department shut that down. They and the state would come out, they do an assessment of the area, they give an estimate on what the need would be. There was no repercussions. If they found out you had 100% failure, they would never say anything. They wouldn't hold you accountable. Um it was just kind of a free um objective independent assessment. But so they refused to do that. At that point, Evan Worling and and probably three of the four at least four board members I believe resigned. Then Judy Swift Pad took charge. She joined that board. She asked to do start with the need study. She got voted down and then they they uh elected a new board president uh that that's pursuing the course of action they have up up until now. So a lot of dynamics. the Brown County RC got that $39 million phase one project from Woodland Lake to you know to uh to Lake Lemon and then of course they got that's targeted for Bean Blossom and then you guys got your chunk you know to have a have a storage plan and then now appears like the wheels are coming off that whole grand design. So we need to kind of reook at that from a

bureaucratic standpoint. We got the council, you know, appointing the Brown County RSD and then we're appointing you guys and then we we deal with ID them and and then of course SRF and the whole point is you want to provide the best value to our customers that you possibly can, right?

And if it gets to the point where the the the fees are exorbitant, um it it won't go. I think I forget the county that basically dissolved an RSD when they they thought it would be a $100 bill and it was a $200 bill and the people stormed the castle and and they dissolved the RSD. I think one of the first times in county history and the county absorbed $1.6 million of a commitment from that RSD that got phased out. I don't think we'd had to do that here if that happened. You just transfer the assets. But anyway, my point is by giving you all the context, it's a bureaucratic challenge. Be glad that we'll take that on. We we discover these things all the time. So, it's been pretty interesting and and so we'll take a take a hard look at that. But can't thank you enough and and housework folks for for taking this on. I mean, I know you burn a lot of time, you know, in there and there's it's almost a thankless job, but but I think you get rewarded eventually up in heaven, you know, for doing these kinds of things. So, that's that's where I think your benefits are going to come from someday. So, thank you, Kyle. Appreciate the brief and and we'll do what we can to kind of work our way through this this

we're happy to help in any way that we can and provide any information necessary, you know, as going forward with this. So,

thanks, sir. Yes. Thanks. Thanks. All righty. Um, next. Ah, Helmsburg, the upgrade to Indian Hill. This is another one of those kind of bureaucrat nightmares that we just keep at it. Um, we just got informed that we didn't get the uh the $400,000 grant um from the Department of Transportation/ Federal Railroad Administration. It was one of those first come first serve. And man, we were fast, but we weren't fast enough. And yes, it was kind of funny. It's like a feeding fury, feeding frenzy. Um I never saw criteria that the first ones in were the first ones to be granted it. And so obviously we we made it in but not fast enough with others. So they're going to have another bidding process in the fall and and by God we're ready this time. So I think we can stay there overnight and then make sure we can deliver that before anybody else, you know, get our line out in the highway, you know, to get get our our application in the door. But in the end term, um just don't want to keep waiting on maybe we'll get funding, maybe we won't. Um and so u we'll look for sources of funds. You got the sock factory money sitting out there 230,000 if you recall the sock factory was sold for 400,000 about 160,000 went to a storm water project in Ellensburg and so this may be another opportunity to put some of that money towards opening up uh Indian Hill Road and the railroad crossing that allow access to 45 um and also the other part of that money if we're looking at I'm trying to confirm the $400,000 estimate for for an engineering study so we can bid uh be able to bid bid to work out and find that money, but first you got to have a plan. And so the other part may be uh money left over in the uh capital improvement bond. So we're looking at that and then I've been in contact with

our legislators, been in contact with the hiking groups. People can't wait to get this thing opened. Um um so the demand's not going away. We've got a lot of support. It's just buying in the money and and and taking it and trying to trying to get the money to start this thing going. So, I'm going to pursue alternatives other than a grant. If we get additional funding for the PER, then we we can apply for money to to do the actual construction to bring that that elevation up. So, it's just uh wow, it's amazing. A 15 second decision costing us years and and millions to to fix. So, that's where we're kind of at on that one. Um the next is the bridge inventory rating inspection report. Kevin, I'll turn that over to you.

Yeah. So, sitting on that corner table right there is our bridge inspection report. Yes.

Now, and it's it's been moving from draft and we're going to have a recommendation from you here in a minute about approving that, but um basically that's a 700page report that's been created by Eegis. It is um two-year project in essence what it is. So their interim the first the first round of their inspections came at the end of at the end of last year and then the bridge report final finality statements a little bit more time because they want go through and look and draft and approve. I will make a correction to Miss Mitchell in the last meeting. I said that the load rating on the Mount Liberty Bridge was 16 tons. It is not. It was 16 down to six in the last and now it's been downgraded again to three ton. So that's why we're looking at that bridge on our list of next replacements. Um and again like I said the design activity is already underway. Clark de has been contracted to go through that exercise and provide the specifications for it. So given that I went through about 400 pages of it my eyes got tired. Um my plan is that that's approved tonight that we will make a digital link available for all those documents so the public can see it. My plan is also request that we put it on the commissioner's web page along with the highway department web page. So I guess is there any questions from the board as far as content on the actual report? Can we make the vote uh contingent uh the motion contingent so we can look at it? I doubt that there's any hangups in it. Uh uh you said you got 400 pages looked through would you be would you entertain that?

I struggle with that because we've had this report since the beginning of March and they gave us digital versions of it. We had printed reports that's been available. So I'm again I don't I'm concerned about the data not being clear on it Ron or Well then you know if you feel that way go ahead and make the motion. Yeah I mean I'm I'm pretty comfortable what's what's there I mean a lot of I was actually kind of surprised in going through that data was actually the low rating how much that cost us that report. So the old the bridge inspection total is $460,000. That's what it's said. And then the thing about it is is 80% of that's paid by the federal government.

Wow. So we've got 20% in it. So I think our part was when we issued the contract when they issued the contract was 80 I think we're at 86,000. Um since it's varable, huh? Since it's got variable money involved, I' I'd like to move forward. Okay. Yes. because we need to go and get our actual fund recovery on that. Um, so as that part of it, so I would basically if there's nothing else, I'd like to make a motion that we approve that report so that we can make it available and move forward. Okay. Second. Second. Kevin Patrick, how do you vote? Yes. Ron Sanders,

yes. Tim Clark, yes. So, just to clarify, we'll again make that report um available on our on the two web pages. Teresa says you're going to try and get that. She's got the file. So, hopefully we can get that taken care of tomorrow. Excuse me. Can you ask a question about that content in the report? Sure.

Sure. Come to the podium. I'm Michael Fton. I live on Lamin Ridge. I'm just curious. Not too many years ago, we switched over to the iron graded bridge bridges. Is that working that well? Are they? So what I've seen so a few of the bridges that that are engraded what have the substructure was not necessarily galvanized and those particular bridges require a higher degree of maintenance than most because it takes pressure washing and then as if not mistaken some of them depending on how the embutments are built and how the beams are set. I'm not seeing huge problems in this report with rated bridges. There's a couple um like it was the point that I was going to make with Ron was is I've seen bridges that have been built in the 1930s and 1920s where they're still carrying the maximum load rating which is well over 80,000 lb. Um I'm seeing bridges built in the 1980s and the 1990s and they've got 1610 weight limits on them. So I don't know what maybe we had some stronger building mechanics back in the earlier years of this. Um so given that I know that the they are we are in maintenance aspect of it doing a better job now of maintenance going out and actually cleaning with last week the highway department actually took and proceeded with recommendations from that report before we finalized on putting rip wrap to you know ensure that we don't have scouring basically removal and undercutting of the actual footings and bridge abutments and that kind of stuff. So, so I don't see it as a huge problem, but I do know that we're actually doing um on I think Mount Mariah or Mount Mariah a replacement one of those ridge where we're doing the underructure replacement. The decking will be the same.

So, Mhm. How many criticals you got? If I'm not mistaken, I'd have to look. I don't know off the top of my head. Where's my thumb drive? Yeah, take a guess. The criticals actually went up by three. So you have three all together? Four. They've gone up by three. So now they're on a So they're in a total of 11. No, I don't think Please don't say 11. I don't like that number.

Give me Give me just a second. Let me see if I can pull it up. I thought there was eight and then they added That's what I thought. Numbers running together. shirt, Sandy.

What I was sold, it's always in the first few pages of the on the record. So category posted limits posted limits closed which we don't so we have is replacement and I don't know if it was that critical but right now in the replacement area they got nine. Thank you much.

Uhhuh. And so, just so you know, Mount Liberty Road is number one. That's being replaced. Elkinsville, we have gotten a federal grant to do the engineering studies for that's number three. Um, Gatesville is one that's not on here, but being fixed as part of it. There's a second bridge in Gatesville, so they're kind of all over the county at this point. Okay. I think the biggest Elkinsville is about over four years out, isn't it?

The actual Elkinsville one. Yeah, they're actually the proposed to bid for construction is probably not going to occur until sometime late 20 29 or 2030. And that one's going to cost us more money because it's the inspection because the federal inspections are much higher. And INDOT's going to manage that project. No, we'll manage that project. It'll be it'll be federally funded. I thought because it's federal money, INDOT had to do it. No, the money is being managed through INDOT to us. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, INDOT manages all of the federal funds for transportation, but it's being funded by federal dollars. Okay. One more. So, do we have any closed bridges? We do have one. It's out at the bond cemetery. And then do we have weight limits on the on the other nine? Um, not all of them. Yes. Yes, you do have weight limits on them except for two. Are you going to fix that or There is no there's not a requirement put on it. Okay. Okay. At this point in time, the report would have identified if they needed it. Okay.

But they've identified basically the structure. So it's not gone to the critical part of it. Much past that. So the other seven then have weights on them. Thank you much. Mhm. Okay. Moving on. That's it for Bridges. Yep. That's all I have. Next is the prosecutor's office. The bill operate transfer resolution. Kevin, you want to kick that off?

So we basically had the prosecutor's office. We did a follow-up meeting with the council. The councilman shared with them the approach that we're looking at and what we have for far as proposals and locations and things of that nature. So, the plan at this point is to go through and um and consider using lot build operate transfer which is a different delivery method for the county in a building. So, right now we're using what? Design build design bid build and then we've got some challenges on that. So what I've asked Dan Cartwright who's our owner's technical representative basically take 15 minutes and kind of summarize how that process is going to work. So Dan, if you can join at the podium, appreciate it. Thank you, Kevin. Uh as Kevin indicated, my name is Dan Cartright. I'm a consultant uh for the commissioners. Uh my experience comes with 30 years of private industry uh owning my own company uh as a commercial real estate developer. Uh I've done professional consulting uh for Johnson County Commissioners and now Brown County Commissioners. I've been working with Brown County Commissioners since June of last year. Uh, I was also the town manager of Edinburg and I was a town manager of Bartersville u before I semi-retired and decided to do consulting full-time. So, that's a little bit about me and my experience. Um, I will, if I can, I'll I'll start out and and kind of tell you about a study that we did uh about uh two months ago on all the potential sites and the

buildings that could be used uh for a prosecutor's office. One of the first places that we we discussed and got involved in was with the town of Nashville at their old police station. there was some consideration to use that. Uh those negotiations apparently stalled uh or or or died. And so we went on and so we started to look at other locations um as well as evaluate the existing prosecutor's facility. the existing prosecutor's facility uh is uh it it it's real close to condemnation. It really is. I mean, there's a lot of problems with that building, a lot of structural problems as well as environmental problems. And not only that, it uh does not uh it's an it's it's a safety problem, security problem. Uh and uh it's not big enough to uh satisfy all the needs that the prosecutor has. Um so we looked at okay, what property does the county own that we could build a new prosecutor's office in? We looked at the courthouse possibility of adding an addition onto the north side of the courthouse. Uh in order to do that, it would take a two-story structure uh attached to the courthouse and uh the whole looks of the courthouse would change. Um we when I say we, let me back up for a minute. We met uh Kevin, myself, the sheriff, the prosecutor, and the judge met to evaluate any of these things, all all

these locations after I did the research on them. Uh so the other option is to uh look at the law enforcement center. uh it makes sense from that standpoint that prosecutor's office might be best to be out at that location. Uh so I looked at the property uh based on aerial photographs and and and dimensions and we're looking at the potentially around 3700 square ft. Okay, that was based on a design that uh was done two years ago. Uh 20254 2024. Uh apparently the commissioners hired uh an architectural firm to do a conceptual design and spent a lot of time with the prosecutor to come up with what size of a facility they would need and what the office layout might be. Um, so we looked at, okay, will will a will a building 3,700 square ft uh fit out there at the jail? Um, there's a grass area on the northwest corner, northeast corner of the parking lot. Uh, part of that grassy area is in a 100-year flood plane. the majority of it it does not. So, first thing I had to do was identify where the flood plane was to see if the building would actually fit at that location. It will outside the flood plane. Uh to do that, it would take some modifications to the east side east end of the parking lot, but they're not huge modifications. So, that that

would be a good location for for for this building. the sheriff, the judge, and the prosecutor all three agreed that's where we need to build. They did none of them like the idea of building on the side of the of the courthouse. Um so we did we did do studies or we did we did discuss this in length with the uh affected parties before we got to the point of where we said okay let's do it through a build operate transfer agreement. So let me tell you about the build operate transfer agreement uh for political subdivisions. Uh political subdivision identified as a a a state, a county, a municipality, a town. Okay. Um it's u it is actually been the go-to process now. Uh it's very active. There's multiple counties. Uh state Indiana state of Indiana has done B. See of Indianapolis has done B. The closest B that I know of right around this area here is uh Edinburg uh in the the fire station they built a year ago. Uh but uh Morgan County has done uh a B some bs. I believe it was Morg it could be Morgantown or it was in Morgantown or it was Martinsville uh that did it but in that county. Uh so there's been several projects. So let me tell you what it is. It's a state statute uh that u peranatanic code 5-23 uh it identifies the procedural

requirements to do a b build operate transfer. You hear me say b during this presentation several times. Um, and what it amounts to is you through through Indiana code 523, the political subdivision can actually negotiate with a developer. Okay. The first step to do that is that the political subdivision has to adopt uh the b statute as I identified in in Indiana code 5-23. The commissioners have already done that. You did that about a month there? Yeah. It didn't mean anything except for now if you choose to proceed with the BT project, you can. Uh what that what that resolution did is that if we decide to proceed with the BO project, we will follow the rules uh in the Indiana code. Uh so that step has been done. uh anytime after that statute has been adopted by resolution, then the uh political subdivision can u can put out a request for proposals. Okay? And that's what we're here tonight for is to discuss putting out a request for proposals for B project. um when the B projects first of all it's not it's not a public letting it doesn't have to be public information on the proposals okay it's a negotiated it's a negotiated thing with with with the developer when the proposals are

received there are certain criteria and as in the request proposal that Barnes Thornberg has prepared for us to look at tonight you'll See there the first step is we we uh receive proposals from qualified developers. Okay. Uh once we do receive those qualified those proposals from the qualified developers uh they uh they must give to us include in the proposal their experience with the b process, their experience with construction, their ability to finance the project, the construction of the project. uh identify three other projects that they have successfully completed using the BO project with names and phone numbers and contact information. Uh a a detailed uh approach uh of how they're going to how they would proceed with this project. Um and that would be that would be how to uh approach the site selection which we basically have already done. Uh the design coordination, the construction, the delivery, the risk management, the cost control, everything associated with it with the design and the development of the building. Um, I've had I've had the question thrown at me at this point in time when I've talked about this to other companies. Okay. Well, how do we know that they're going to design something that we are not that we're going to be satisfied with? Well, there's a committee that is formed. Okay. And that committee is going would be involved in the entire design to sit down with the design. you know, more than likely that design well obviously that design uh committee

uh would include the prosecutor and possibly I don't know possibly the judge but uh and also representation from the commissioners. So the first part of the project is the scoping period. So what we would do is we would look receive the proposals, evaluate the proposals, check the references to the record, their background, their financial capabilities, etc. And then we say, okay, this company here we believe is is is the best company. So we would say, okay, we're entering to a we're entering to a entering into a scope period. Okay, the scope period is nothing more. It's not a it's not a resolution. It's not the award of a contract or anything, but hey, we want to work with you to get to the point where we can actually pass a resolution and uh hire you. Um all the risk is on the developer. Everything I talk about here, the risk is on the developer until the project is completed. uh when I say risk I'm talking about the financial risk primarily. So during the scoping period what the what the developer would be required to do is to do all the feasibility study the conceptual studies that has to be done regarding uh environmental concerns uh the flood plane concern uh the u stability of the ground to build this facility on all that pre-engineering stuff before the actual construction documents are done. That could cost thousands, thousands, tens of thousands of dollars, okay, to do that,

which would be the county's responsibility. It was built if it was built the normal way of of designing a designing a project and putting out for bid. Um it would be their responsibility to hire an architect an archite then they it would be their responsibility to give us a conceptual design of the facility. So we know what the facility looks like. We know what the exterior elevations would look like. We know what the floor plan basic floor plan would be and we know the location the site plan of the location of actually where that where that building would be. uh and uh the most important thing it's a they would give us a guaranteed maximum price. Now when I say guaranteed maximum price there are no change orders. Okay. Every project I've been involved in the traditional way there's always change orders. Okay. Uh and a lot of time the change orders are because are because the designer uh overlooked something or made a mistake and then there's a change order and you who pays for the change order is the municipality or the public entity. There are no change orders. It's a guaranteed there's no change or a guaranteed maximum price uh during the scoping p price period. Okay. clear up to that point in time. At the end of the scoping period, at the end of the scoping period, we have a guaranteed maximum price of what the project's going to be. We have a location. We have a site design, a site plan of what where it's going to look and where and where it's going to sit and what it's going to look like on the overall project, overall uh law enforcement center. We have a we have a plan a building plan a layout plan that

is satisfactory to the prosecutor and the commissioners. Uh and we have a a detailed detailed approach on how this is going to be funded during construction. Okay. There's multiple ways to for them to do that. The list is too long to even get into right now, but it's no cost to us. The only reason why it could possibly be cost to us if we decide to draw down the bond to make payments. Again, that's a negotiated thing later on down the line that we talk about. But there's no cost. Basically, there's no cost unless unless the commissioner decided made the decision to to uh to cover some of those costs. But there's no cost. Um we select this developer that we choose after we get all this information. Uh and that developer then would give us a uh performance bond a performance bond to complete the project and complete the project uh with a guaranteed maximum price. Um then there would be a resolution at a public meeting at at the commissioner's uh meeting to um award a actual agreement with this particular developer that we have selected. Then there's the construction period. During the construction period, we're not spending any money. The county is not spending money unless it decided to pull down its bond and do progress payments. but it doesn't have to. U there's no cost. Uh after the construction is done, then

there's a final walk through. Okay? And again, there's been no change orders on this project. The only reason why there would be a change over the project is if if uh Brown County decided they want to go with a a more expensive stone facade on the outside of the building, let's say, or or uh add square footage or add a basement or whatever that wasn't originally planned, then of course there's a change order. But as long as it is according to the conceptual plan of the schematic place I should use I guess uh there'd be no changeovers to the project when this walk when this walkth through haps happens final walk through uh we look at everything. Okay. We look to make sure that the paint on the walls are the color that we wanted. We make sure that the carpet is is the kind of carpet that we want. We want to make sure the door grains are is what it is. We're going to make sure obviously that the building is the right size. We're already going to know because we're involved in the design all the way through the design concept. But then after we're satisfied with the building, um it uh then then the county commissioners accept the building and and and then if if they haven't already used some of the money to to uh help finance the construction for the developer, which is not a requirement, u they haven't spending money. So you got a building completed on your property and you got no compl. Okay. So there's an unbelievable amount of risk for the developer. If we decided at the end of the project, believe it or not, I've never seen this happen. I don't know anyone that even knows of this ever happening, but according to the statute,

if we decide we don't want the drilling, we walk away. We don't do that. But that doesn't happen.

I mean, it doesn't happen. Um, so that's the basically that's that's the basic process and what what we're looking for. And right now we have uh uh about 24 $2.4 million left in the general obligation bond. And uh this project is going to be a total of Uh million three to million five is what this project's going to be. That would have to come from the bond. U just depending how soon it happens and to what level of design uh that we we we would want. I'm I'm I'm pretty confident though it will not be over five. It could be as low as three. Um, so I kind of rattled along here and I just want to make sure that I uh covered the basics, but what we're looking for tonight is the uh approval to put the request for proposals out for for this B2 project. Again, just because you put this out, just because you receive proposals doesn't mean you're you're you're doing anything. Basically, what you're doing is you get your building conceptually designed free is what it amounts to and then we're going to make a decision and have to be a formal public hearing and resolution to be entered into a contract. But I'll answer any questions if I can. I think I just want to clarify one thing for you is that that is the that is in this basically condition of anyone that gets engaged in this process from the development standpoint any

and that's the reason why all the municipalities why all the municipalities and government agencies are are going this way

well Dan to me from a quality perspective the only way that works is you have outstanding communications and a near perfect process so it sounds like they've got this down to a science that's a lot of risk on the developer It's a lot of risk on the developer and there's very few developers that will that would would would take that risk. But the developers that do take the risk have uh extensive experience doing it and they have a team that they are very confident in and they uh they know that uh once uh once they start the scoping prayer they're going to complete it all the way through you know.

Thank you Dan. Thank you. Questions? We're good. I'm just wondering what the transfer portion means. Can you come to the podium and maybe give you give us your name? Um, I'm Phil McCallen. Not familiar with the B process and I'm just wondering what what the transfer portion actually means. So, the actual transfer portion actually occurs at the point when we accept the building. Okay. So that's the acceptance transfer from the from the developer to the correct. Thank you.

Sherry Mitchell. Um Mr. Cartright's not correct exactly. Uh if you have a maximum guaranteed price you're going to pay it once that project's done. Did you gentlemen do a um value for monies on this analysis? Why didn't you go with a direct bid build? Because we've had horrible experience with that process. Cuz you had overcharges once or change. Change orders. Thank you. Change orders once. Once. I'm asking once. So, in the last two projects that we have dealt with, we've had change orders.

Okay. Um, you could still have change orders here and still have to pay them because you have a maximum out of out of pocket price that you're going to pay anyway. Again, so if you're not going through the exercise of structural changes, square footage and things of that nature, it's not my understanding. I'm sorry, what? So if we go and accept the concept that's put forth with the design that's present presented accept maximum bid is what you're pay maximum bid is what you would pay. There are no changes. Okay. Uh because you're going to pay the maximum bid. You will be paying whatever the bid said bid is.

Yeah. Maximum bid. Yeah. Um you take us out of the transparency part of this. You realize that right? I mean, he did just tell you that that we won't be able to see your bids, that he'll hire a contractor and he'll make an agreement with that contractor. Um, and none of us will have any idea what you're doing. I don't like it at all. At all. Yes. Ron, well, there there could be change orders if

you're just going to pay 1.5. That's all there is to it. So, you're still going to pay for that change order. You're just going to be in a guaranteed price, one little pocket, and you're taking us out of this. We have no idea. We're not going to get the lowest bid. We get the bid that he wants, the guy he wants. We've already paid him $9,000. Uh he's been working on this since what, the middle of 2025. No, actually the other project. Um you've been paying him since June of 2025. Not for this work. Whatever. You still been paying him? Um, okay.

I I have your funds. I have your I have the entire fund. Um, and I did look at it, but we're going to be paying him and then paying someone else. Um, the developer will want what, 7 to 12% on top of the project just to be the developer. Is that about right? You don't know? No, it's not right. I don't know. Yeah, you should know that. You should know that you're spending $1.3 million. Please be careful, gentlemen. Uh, yes, Ron. One thing to the point is when I read that what you're saying about the transparency,

there is none. Well, when I read that, it's he uh he oversees the project. Yes, I know. And it's not he is not accountable to me. You are. Yeah. But he's accountable to the commissioner's office. Whoopde. Then what's your point? If we go design, build build, we're accountable there as well. I don't even know what you're going to be building. I don't even know what it's going to look like. I don't even know how much it's going to cost because I'm never going to see any of those things. What I read was this is a non-transparent transaction here and I don't like it.

What I what I read was that they're to contact him. They're not to contact the commissioners. They're not to contact the county. Yeah. You hired an otr. I'm very well aware. I just wanted to clarify. I got it. Is there anything else, Mr. Um, no, but I'm sure we're going to have lots of arguments about this. Thank you. I I got I got a question. We put out the RFP, we get the response. That's those are that's public information. It's up to you. Okay. All right. So, all the documents we would get, projections, this and that. That's just to hire the developer, isn't it?

It's up to you. Okay. Thanks. Thank you. It's all um if I can just say one thing. I I really don't Well, I I'm not going to ask a question, but the guaranteed maximum price, okay, is a guaranteed maximum price. Okay? That's all there is. There's nothing else about it. It's just the maximum amount of money you're going to pay. Unless, like Ron said, it would change shape footage or some significant structural design. Exactly. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Kevin Snacks need I don't have any followup to that.

Okay. Do we need any kind of vote or so I would basically as part of this I would go ahead and basically recommend them go through the exercise of authorizing the release of the RFPQ. That would be my motion. Okay. Second. I'll second roll. Ron Sanders. How do you vote? No. Tim Clark. Yes. Kevin Patrick.

Yes. Okay. Next item on the agenda is the music center admin agreement second reading. The resolution is number 2026-04-001-00001. Title is resolution of the board of commissioners the county of Brown Indiana approving a second amendment to the administration agreement relating to the music center venue and performing arts center project. Let me just summarize just real quickly uh the key points of this. The only change to the administrative agreement that we're suggesting is to section three um that states that the music center board of directors can contribute if permitted by law 75% of the excess revenues to the Brown County Foundation. The change is for 100% to be continued to the board of commissioners. Um again, if permitted by law, so it's questionable legally. I think if we the new commissioners review this contract today, that's something we would unlikely approve because of the uh uncertainty regarding legalities. Um the county council uh once that money is returned to the to the uh the county, the county council uh when they were pulled on this issue, six of the seven county council members uh wanted to keep things the same. Uh one councilman didn't make a commitment one way or the other. So, in essence, the county council, the money's returned to the county. The county council could write a check to the foundation if that's what they want to do. So, kind of a win-win. Um, what the resolution does, and I'll be this very specific, it authorizes the president of the board of commissioners is hereby directed to discuss and negotiate with the ad agreement parties to effectuate an agreement on approval of the second amendment to administration agreement by the agreement parties again is discuss and negotiate. So that's that's really what this resolution is all about. Um how

that will happen is through working sessions. Um the council does has at least one working session a month generally 9 to 12. Uh there's and in our case and when they start there's not going to be a vote at a working session. We'll talk discuss get everybody's input that has has a a stake in this kind of process or interested but again it'll be a working session. So everybody will have a chance to to speak their their opinions or voice their strategies. So Ron, I know all three of us have a little different twist on how this thing can go. We can discuss that at a working session. Um when it goes through to the point where we're ready to make any kind of change or formal decision that will be at a public meeting. So again, all this does is authorize uh establishment of of discussion and negotiation that we'll do in in a meeting in this room that'll be streamed in a working session. Discussion here. Questions? I just don't want to um take apart a working machine. It u Yeah. Originally I wanted to sell music center. Then I wanted 100%. And I just keep getting educated more and more. I wish they were here tonight. Okay. So they could answer some things. And yesterday, Mr. Clark, I believe you were right about the 1 million being in the capital approvement thing uh plan that it wasn't uh to make mortgage payments. Okay. But they're currently making mortgage payments, paying money in le of property taxes, giving excess revenue. They're paying all their uh the help that they do pay. They're paying the performers. I mean, they got a

working model, okay? And at this time, I I don't want to to wreck or take apart a working machine. And then you know in 25 more years when the loan is satisfied u then it will be transferred to the county and you got somebody you got a lot of volunteers that are working for free. Uh the board to my knowledge don't get paid. They got a few employees out there that do get paid. You got a working model. Um like I said at this time I wouldn't want to do it. Um, I would like to have talked to them some more and you know I don't necessarily want to go out there and even tell them we want x amount of number of the profits. You know I just I'd like to talk to them and see what they would be willing to do. I don't I don't want to force this on because I'm pretty sure they're not going to sign it. I'm not interested in getting in no more legal battles. Um, I like I said last time, I just like to be more diplomatic about it and see what we can come up with.

Well, um, get back to what the resolution does is allow that conversation discussion to happen in a in an open forum in a in a public meeting. It's so if they want to come back, if you want to come back and say my position is X at a at a working session, that's fine. If they want to support that, they want to support your position or identify another, they can they can certainly do that. It's it's an open meeting at the Mega League meeting. anybody can come in.

Um, these meetings are streamed. It's going to be a commissioner-led working session and the public as well as the ad as well as the parties on the administrative agreement and other interested parties are free to express their opinion uh regarding any kind of change and maybe the ultimate is the consensus is no change at all. Fine. Um, but we have that in public meetings. We have that in working session to let people have that have that voice. That's all this this resolution is doing. Basically, I'm not interested in turning you loose on time. I don't know what that is. So, any other discussion?

I don't think I have anything. Excuse me, film account again. Um, I'm just wondering what is the purpose of this resolution? What what does this address or what need does it address that we didn't have before? Okay. I identified what the one change. Yes. Identified in the agreement on the on the questionable legality. Um if that if permitted by law um address that and the other part was to get greater public input on on on on options to either reinforce the status quo or request a change.

Well, why do we need a resolution to get greater public input? Because we're changing, we can change the administrative agreement. When you negotiate different changes, there could be more changes or or no changes than administrative agreement. That has to be done at a public meeting. And to have those kind of public meetings, you need a resolution to endorse. I guess if you want an opinion from our attorney, you can documents that can provide that. No, I accept that. I'm I just I'm not familiar with that process and I'm just curious as to why we're doing this now and what the motivation is.

Greg Tagert, can we not talk to them now without a resolution? Are you guys need a resolution to talk to them? This is a formal process before we went through unofficially kind of with a 50/50. I think Ron, you took the we started off at 100%. We said, "Okay, let's do the 50/50." We did it outside of this meeting. Um did it uh the meeting wasn't streamed. It wasn't public. So, what this does is make everything public. Puts everybody on record. You can go to the meetings now. Public's not it's not streamed. Meetings in this room are streamed. That's where these these working sessions going to be. So that's the process.

I think this is a waste of time. Okay. Others. So to answer go back to the reason of why. So there is a clause there which I've said countless times that if it were a clause that I were looking at a contract today would not sign. I wouldn't sign it. Would be willing to sign which is permitted by law. The comment that I'm going to make for myself is the reason that we're looking at this or the reason I'm interested looking at this is that right now we are going to have significant challenges in 2027 and 2028 with regards to funding. And those significant challenges and again I've made the comment in all this in meetings is there are bridges and roads that need to be dealt with. Now, we've had some help from Eduadila to help us identify that there may not be as bad a funding issue as long as we can get really good at projecting our revenues to work these things, but there are still nine replaceable bridges over the next 10 years that have to happen. So for us since we don't have heavy industry since we don't have huge industry in this county and tourism is the biggest part of it and the stream that comes from that is the inkeeper tax. So those kinds of funds at this point can't be allocated to do any of the road or any of the other things that have to be h that have to happen. So where do we go? Well, the only place that I see where I can look at an opportunity to improve our financial standing as a county is at the music center. And I agree. I don't mind to tear down something at the music center because it seems to be functioning. Conversation, I think, is focused on is there any board willingness to move with regards to the distribution or changes and things of that nature.

And so that's where I'm at.

Okay. And then the in addition to the infrastructure, it's public safety as well. I mean, the intent of it raising the inkeepers tax from 5% to 8%. The whole intent was to fund public safety, which the legislature, the way it was presented, said you can't do it with that that particular revenue. Public safety is the sheriff, emergency services, fire department. It's the ambulance service. So again, another source of revenue. And uh so that's, you know, another need for the county. And again, I know what we're trying to do with regards to other activities as it goes through and offsetting costs with regards to tourist activities like finding ways to financially support 4 fairgrounds and those kinds of things with handkeeper tax money. But at the end of the day, I don't know that that's going to be a significant contribution to be able to address the shortfalls. I anticipate that we're going to have

and resolution opens up for public comment. Again, the meetings, the working sessions will be in here. They'll be streamed. people have a chance to to voice their opinion. Is there anybody else in the audience? Yes. Like a comment?

To be clear, gentlemen, so that the public is aware, your resolution isn't changing the admin agreement because you can't do that unilaterally. Correct. Correct. You have to have the other boards agree with you and they're never going to do that. Um, I don't know why you just don't go to them, Tim, and have a conversation with them about, hey, can we change this and then have them agree with you and then get it done that way. Um, because I think you'd get more. What do you say about honey and bees? So, we had to be a little clear about that. We as we as three commissioners cannot engage in that conversation without it being a public meeting her open door.

It would be a public meeting. You could go into the Maple Leaf board meeting and have that conversation and say, "Hey, gentlemen, I've had that conversation with Mr. Herring, me, myself, and I said and said, "Why are you fighting this?" I asked him flat out to his face. I will not answer that for him because that's not my job. Um, but um, your resolution is not going to do anything. You can talk to them anytime you want. you can haul them in here to talk to you um also in a public meeting. But without those other three, and I think that Ron is right that you're probably creating adversaries as opposed to people that you can collaborate with um by trying to push this.

It it it doesn't it's not going to sit well. And if they really really wanted to really wanted to, they could never have excess revenue. They could buy capital improvements. So be careful. Understood. Anything else, Ron? Anyone else?

Oh, the the part that I agree with is we're into we're entering into where I just don't know where all the money's going to come from. And I actually think that the people on the Maple Leaf board understand that we're probably going to need some money. And I've even heard one of them say, you know, we understand we maybe need to do something. And they did. They raised the pilot project and give us 10,000 more. But the other thing that I was and I don't want to get too deep into it, but if their money is supposed to go, that million dollars is supposed to go for capital improvements, I don't see why they couldn't have took the $200,000 that they took from excess revenue for the wetland project and took that out of that fund. I understand that fund would have to been reimbursed

and I can't answer that for them. This stuff's high finance to them.

This this is pretty serious stuff and I'm still learning it. Okay, it's I won't say it's above my pay grade, but I'm going to have to work to get to that pay grade. And they're more than willing to talk to me and be nice. They've been nice. I get along fairly well with most of them. Uh, I'm thinking we can probably do something with them. I don't I just don't want to throw gas on them and light them and I don't want that. I don't not interested. I'd rather we're all part of the community. These are all upstanding people. They're they're reasonable people and I think we could come to something. Ron, that would be communicated at a public meeting at a stream that people can watch and participate in versus your one-on-one offsite

kind of meetings and you can still do that. You can meet oneonone and you can do that. Bring it back bring it back to working session and and and stream that for the public. I've never met any of them on oneonone. It's always at the the meeting. Everybody comes in, everybody talks, they let me get up and ramble as much as I want, you know, and they're nice people. They're they're good people in the community. So, let's let's not poke them. I'm done.

So, so the question that I have is there nice people and all of that. So, we come down to the point of we've had how many conversations at this point with them during that board meeting? I don't know. I've missed a few board meetings. I'll give you that. But other you'll miss them, too.

Excuse me. Uh, Michael Pa, I haven't been to a commissioner's meeting in a number of years, but I do want to say I've been very impressed. I think you conducted meeting very professionally. I would certainly encourage you to have conversations. I don't know how best to approach uh that organization to have those conversations, but I think if you interact with him like I've seen you interact this evening, I I think you can make progress. I think everybody's going to be reasonable. Thank you, Michael. All right.

Yeah. Dwayne persons, I got a quick question. I thought we had a setting commissioner that was appointed to the music center. Oh, give it up. To sit in on the meetings. Is that correct? Give it up, Dwayne. I'm not I'm not your whooping boy. It's a question. No, no, don't go. Mr. President, are you running the meeting or is Ron? I'm just asking. Question. Ron Sanders is appointed to the and he said and we said as much in meetings and he's addressed the fact on meetings and he addressed the fact they don't important people be what's your what's your

well he had he had mentioned that that uh he needed more information and all and I thought maybe that was something you could obtain at the meetings if you were there. Thank you. All right. Anybody else? Close it off. Entertain a motion.

I make a motion to table it. Until I can go to the 28th meeting. Uh they're obviously not here. Um I would not feel comfortable voting on that tonight other than the table. So the 28th meeting is at what point because again if you go down that path anything that has to be discussed between ourselves because again that's a public decision has to be addressed in here. So what's the plan?

Well I can go to the meeting they I'm sure some of them's watching it u talk to them see if we can get them back in here because basically they've not showed up. they've not showed up to the talks, you know, the se the ceasefire or whatever you want to call it. Let's let's get them back in on to the table and talk to them. So, let's schedule it for the um first meeting in May.

So, schedule Well, you lost me here. We can call them back in. That's the point on the resolution point to have the working session um that we can all attend. Um there's no votes that'll be taken at the working session. So that's a chance for people to to have an honest conversation and it does and open to the public. I don't know why everybody's afraid of of doing that. I made a motion to table. Is there a second? No second. So motion's not carried.

Wait a minute. No, I'm not. Again, it's a frustrating point about this. I have an understanding and I want to engage in this, but the frustrating part about this is is you've got a board meeting that you can go to. There's other business obviously that can take place to me in this particular situation. Are they willing to have a dedicated meeting to meet with the commissioners to come for have this conversation? I I can only assume that they would.

I can't guarantee you anything as far as what they're to do right now. And if that doesn't happen, are you going to be willing to move forward with this approach? I will be um willing to see what happens then. Let's get them back to the table. You want me to predict the future? I can't predict the future. I have a gut feeling. Have a gut feeling that they'll they'll talk to us. Aren't we getting back to the table in a public meeting in this room? No.

No. Are you You're just trying to rush it through so you get the power is what I'm saying. And I don't want to turn you loose on them. I don't know what that means. I've been in meetings with you that didn't end with

that's you know we have again we're at a point to where we have no control. If they don't agree, you're not going to have it anyway.

Motion's made to table. Is there a second? I'll second that motion. Roll call. Tim Clark, how do you vote? No. Kevin, no table. Kevin, Kevin Patrick, yes. Ron Sanders, yes. Well, I want to basically place places a burden on this is that if we're going to look at me or if you want to engage and have them come forth in a meeting that's one-on-one. That's what I want.

Oneonone just like we have. So again, the point was made is we don't need to necessarily pass a resolution to get to pull them forth and have a public meeting. And if we cannot make that happen before our next meeting in May, then I'm my attitude is we proceed forward with this resolution. You're saying the one meeting sir in here? Yes, sir. That's fine. That has to be advertised. It has to be advertised. It has to come here. So we don't there's not a date yet. I would basically say that we can set a date and if you want to reach out I assume Kevin Alt is still the president of the board. Let's have him have that engagement. That's my condition on that one. The timeline for that within the next two weeks.

It has to happen before the the meeting in May. All right. That's what I would like to see happen. That's fine. And if it doesn't then we'll go down a different path. All right. Anything else? All right, move along. Um, review process. Um, Teresa. Oh, okay. Um, I have uh budget updates are that the form ones are due July 1st. Did they move that back to the normal time, wasn't it? Yeah. Okay. Good. I thought June one was a little early.

We did. Yeah. Okay. So, um we are going to start gathering information in May and June. So, be prepared to um start looking at budgets when we have our admin. And there is a new um auction website that the county is using now. I wanted to tell the citizens about it. It is called Public Surplus. We currently have six or more vehicles on there from the sheriff's department. Um you can go online, look up Brown County government as the um entity and you will see it on their website public surplus. Um we had a oversight in sending out property taxes. So want to tell the citizens and remind everyone that dog tax was repealed by the council last year for the year of 2026. So, those notices went out in people's tax bills and you need to ignore them. There is no dog tax. If you've paid dog tax, they go to the treasur, Julie.

Mhm. Go to the treasur's office to discuss a refund. Okay. Or our office. Either one can direct. And um I will be asking to add to your agenda in May a discussion about an ordinance website to have all the county ordinances put into one database and so that citizens can go to our website, click a link and they would be able to see any what in all of our ordinances. They would be able to do a search. You would be able to see the updates. um you pay a yearly fee when that happens. So it's I suggest you also add resolutions to that.

That is their ordinance resolution resolutions. Um and it does have a yearly fee. The first year is higher $600 for the first year and then it's $495 every year after that to maintain it. So that means after you have a meeting and you have an ordinance passed and signed and it's recorded, then we would send that to that company and they would put that on our in our database. Okay. So um have one quote. I called another company this afternoon for another quote. So I will be wanting to speak with that. Are they willing to do the research on all the active ordinances? Yes, they do. And that is a

4,000. Well, that's the whole project. It's a four It's a little over $4,000 to start that where they take all of the ordinances from all the years past, create the database, and then they maintain it, which is a great idea. And then that's the that was the how much was that? 600 to start, 400 after that after the initial investment of 4,000 or whatever it was. Okay. And we've already worked with this company before. When Glenda Stockdale was auditor, she had all of the ordinances put into a book with this company. So, they already have a database with us started. So, um it would just be picking up from 2014 and moving forward. They still have that.

Do they have record of how far back they went in search of ordinances and things of that nature? I called Glenda and asked and she said it was all of them. Really? They Oh, you do know what? I mean, I have a record of it. Do we have the books? Oh yeah, we have the books. I got one in my office. But um Nashville, town of Nashville uses this database. Um Bartholomew County uses it. Princess Lakes uses it. They gave me a whole list of um surrounding areas that used this current database for ordinance data. Okay. So, um wanted to put that bug in your ear and they put me on the agenda for May. Great. That's all I got.

Then we have the distribution of funds. Would there be money left over from that close out? Oh, okay. Um that um well, the distribution of funds for the dog tax to pay the um Purdue extension the way the contract the ordinance was originally wrote um is going to change from our last conversation because now we have a printing bill to pay for the paper that went out. Okay? So, my numbers to you will change. I'll get those to you next week. Okay. Thanks, Teresa. Sandra, anything? Yeah. Um, Trent and I are gonna dive into the bridge inspection report. Now, that is with the microphone.

Oh, my bus driver, of course. So, Trent and I are going to dig into the bridge inspection starting tomorrow. We're going to go out look at some of our critical and some of our rehab and try to get a list together on the top five of each one and get a plan together and come up with where we're going to start. Okay. And I just want to reiterate you and I and I'll I would prefer that you kind of look at your calendar. But I would still like to sit down and go through at least a couple hours a week to look at the actual one start out with the 2026 budget so that we can yes put identifiers next to those and then obviously you just heard that form ones are due in July. So

around the corner close experienced that in a much more realistic environment. Kevin, were you going to say anything on the small vehicle plan for replacement? No, that was basically just coming to you guys to look at that and basically to authorize them to proceed forward too. All right. Okay. Uh other alcohol tobacco commission. Thank you Dwayne for your report. Appreciate that. Thank you.

Ongoing business. Um we're going to meet a joint meeting with the area plan commission on April 28th. It's going to be again a joint session. We're going to go over our suggestions on changes to the comprehensive plan. Uh the upgrade in Pumpkin Ridge Road. the uh contractors meeting with property owners kind of as we speak. They've been doing it over the past few weeks and the first public information meeting will they're targeting for the June July time frame. So they kind of open up uh tell tell you what the plan is going forward. Um that's about it. May 20th we'll have centerstone here on the on their count. They'll do their 15 minutes where we're at.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Um any further questions from the audience? the ambulance contract. Is there any information that the chair? No, we're we're digging into that. We're in the process of collecting the data and reconciling it and and looking at options. So, that's ongoing. It's a it's a challenge. Yeah. So, all right. Shar was like that it was the ambulance humane society policies for capital assets that whole section. Was there anything else? No, it just wasn't process.

There's a slight change in the humane society. They had given us a contract and when we went back and actually measured it against our typical contracts, it didn't have a termination clause. So Martin Thornberg, I don't know if James did that or Stephanie did that, put together two items that were going to basically go back to them and put a termination clause in as it relates to that to where both parties have the opportunity to terminate. And then there's a recommendation on prrated reimbursement if we choose in the middle of the year, but we haven't talked to them about that yet. Okay. All right. Legal, anything, James? No, I just wanted to make sure you guys had uh addressed the contracts and uh otherwise nothing from us. Okay, great. Thank you.

All righty. I'll entertain a motion. Motion to adjurnn. Second