Area Plan Commission (apc) - Regular Meeting

Sorry.

is called to order. [clears throat] Say the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right. Any additions or changes to the agenda. A couple things that are taken off the comp time over 40 hours is off and the commission's 2026 budget is off as well as the additional appropriations listed down here. Okay. And approval of minutes. Approve the minutes.

We got minutes for two two items. Let me list those. The minutes of our last council meeting on Monday at November 17th. Any changes or approval or whatever? [clears throat] Make a motion to approve. Second. Darren, yes. Judy, yes. Scott, yes. Gary, yes. Patrick, yes. Joel, yes. Jim, [clears throat] [laughter]

okay. Next item is our work session meeting of December 4th, 2025. Approval of those minutes. Motion to approve. Patrick made a motion to approve. Anyone want to second that? No. Second. [clears throat] Okay. Darren, yes. Judy, yes. Scott, yes. Gary, yes. Patrick, yes. [clears throat] Joel, yes. Jim, yes.

All right. Next item is old business. Keeps showing up all the time. Mark's a direct not a hurting phone ordinance. We're finally going to solve that. I think I I hope so. You hope so. Um Uh oh. You want to I mean [clears throat] we're trying to solve appropriation for reimbursement of $30,333.34. Susan, um are we're we're [clears throat] wanting to put that money in a fund. Correct. Yes. It goes into a non-reverting fund.

Into a non-reverting fund. Do we know which fund number that is? It's a 4,000 fund. We just I can't I don't know which one to put it in yet. Do we Oh, goodness. Actually should have brought my if I couldn't show you I just really don't want to open up can of worms here. The fund is is available to do now. It is in set aside for that. Yes. Okay. Um set up. Would you take a motion? Yes, I will.

So I mean just to clarify right under your additional appropriations for tonight that is included in that list. So if you have I guess questions regarding that show then this Gary you have it. Oh right. I have that. I'm not so sure. So I guess if you have questions and want an explanation go ahead and take that now. This would be coming and you can make a decision on whether you approve this or don't approve it when you get to all got in your folder. No [clears throat]

in your folder. Should we have that one then? I don't think I have that one. [cough] Mr. President, [clears throat]

I'm going to make a comment here for all the council board members. Um, I've asked a few of the taxpayers that voted for me [clears throat] that I've got a real ethical dilemma as a county council person took an oath to abide by the United States federal constitution and state of Indiana's constitution and all the rules and regulations. Um, I have not received any copies of any ordinances or any material. Matter of fact, I didn't get the agenda until 4:30 Friday afternoon. I don't have any copies. I've not had the availability to read through it. So therefore, tonight on any of these ordinances or anything, I'm going to abstain because I'm not going to vote on anything that I haven't read and comprehend until I understand. Thank you for your excellent. [clears throat]

Thank you. Okay, we'll use this one. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, I don't I don't have any questions about I think it's pretty clear this money was where it was supposed to go, what it's supposed to be used for, how much it is. Um, so with that, I would suggest we move on to the next agenda item and then approve the additional preparation with the others down [clears throat] the road. Was there? Oh, nice. Okay. Okay. Yeah. [clears throat]

I was going to say I did um locate it is it's fun number 1320 the parks and recre monopole non-reverting fund was recently set up now we change it to a 4,000 fund so it's changed it's changed that there was supposed to be a 4 it was supposed to be 4,000 and then I called I called the state board and they did say it was supposed to be a 4,000. Okay. So So we did change it to a 4,000 fund like [clears throat] 30,000.

This this is showing as a 30,000 under the general fund, Julie. Is that right? Is it the first one listed here? General fund 10,000 line 30,000. Yes. Okay. [clears throat and cough] Okay. All right. Anything else, Mark? Good answer. [laughter] [clears throat]

Yes. Does Pope Park ordinance signatures? Okay. So, what else? So, what do we need to sign here, Julie? For the health department. Signatures only. Yeah, we were supposed to have that ordinance for the health. There is an ordinance up there for the health department. Yep.

We told you she didn't have you passed it on our last meeting. Which one is it? Now 17. Are we talking about her additionals? I think so. Right. [clears throat]

[clears throat] It's one of the council bill 21's transfers. Yeah, it's where it authorizes me to do the transfers and on the back of it has this on the back uh page. Okay, [clears throat] one more. So, it's a resolution. It needs one reading and a vote. Correct. You take a motion. Yes. Move we approve council bill number 21 resolution. All second. [cough and clears throat] Darren, yes. Judy, yes. Scott, yes. Gary, yes. Patrick, yes.

Joel, yes. Jim, you have a stain on there. [laughter] Okay, next item is job classification ordinance [clears throat] signatures only. We did this at November 17th meeting first time. So I just need red read the titles. Susan,

yes title only. Council bill number 14, ordinance number 2025-11-17-0000, an or an an ordinance adopting County of Brown, Indiana job classification system. Make a motion. I'll make a motion. I'll second. Made in second. Sandy. Sandy. Darren. Yes. Judy, yes. Scott, yes. Gary, yes. Patrick, yes. Joel, yes. Jim, same.

All right. Next item on new business is a salary ordinance, second reading. My understanding on that is we probably have a little more work to do on that. We do. All right. That would probably facilitate, if we're going to [cough] do it this year, [clears throat] another meeting by the end of the year. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. And [clears throat] that can be a very short meeting. And I presume the prime time of that would be close to the end of the year as possible. Is that true? [clears throat]

which would mean ideally two weeks from today is the 29th. You have a problem with that Judy? You going to be gone? 29th. What's the emergency on this? Is there emergency particular on the classification system? Well, we're talking about salary. I just I just jumped talking about salary ordinance. Yeah. Has to be it has to be in place by the first of the year. We didn't do that last year. Hell, we didn't vote approved the salary ordinance until you know probably second quarter of last year. So last year we only control so much.

I understand that. I understand that. But, you know, I, you know, based off the information that I received from Rey and you guys at that last special session meeting we had here a few weeks ago, the numbers, the math doesn't add up at all. So, you know, I'm real guarded on that salary ordinance. I number one, I don't have a clue what's in it. Not a clue, you know. And uh and and let me ask you this, Susan. Sure. [clears throat]

The salary ordinance, does that supersede I guess maybe supersede is a term? Does the salary ordinance actually legally from a legal standing standpoint? Does that override the budget? What what has what has more legal standing? The actual budget that we passed as as opposed to the [snorts] salary ordinance. Your budget is just your appropriation. Your salary ordinance is how the auditor pays your employees and who they pay. So, for example, how many positions the salary ordinance could have a position in there that perhaps there was never an allocation done for a position in the budget. Correct.

And you could slide in a position in the salary ordinance and that position the salary [clears throat] ordinance would take precedence over the budget, would it not? In theory, they could probably fill the position and then come back [clears throat] and either transfer money or something of that nature. Ask for an additional. Yes. Okay.

I mean, I don't I don't know if there's a question in front of me. Everybody looking at me.

Well, I mean, the only reason I'm bring you know, the numbers didn't add up. Um, when we passed the budget for this year, we had $176,000 worth of service in the general fund. That was it. [clears throat] Now, we took out I took out of the commissioner's budget $120,000 because they had said they were going to terminate the HSA contributions. So, we've got to add do an additional appropriation for 2026 for 120K to put that back in. Well, if you take 176 minus 120, it leaves you what? 56,000, right? So, that would put us at 56,000 in the black. So, [laughter] we're not even into January yet. And we're going to start writing red ink pretty quick. And so I think we need the council, you know, our responsibility is to pass a balanced budget and keep the county in the black. Correct.

It's, you know, correct. Yeah. So, and this salary [clears throat] ordinance issue and this new, you know, factory evaluation system that we've voted to adopt the ordinance to implement, now we got to go to implement it. And I'm just to the council. We need to be very careful with what we do and make sure we all understand the consequences [clears throat] of what we're not what we're going to do. Jim, question for you. Make sure I'm on the same page. Maybe help other council members catch up.

Are you suggesting possibly that we set that salary ordinance at a rate that [clears throat] is a structurally balanced amount? So we, in other words, we were what 110,000. we were the budget that we passed for [clears throat] 2026, you know, based on I'm using the numbers that Rey provided us for the November 17th. I've got copies of everything here with me. Um, we had 176,000 and and keep in mind I'm talk speaking specifically, all right, to the general fund because keep in mind when it comes to labor cost, the general fund has 66% of our labor cost comes out of that general fund. [snorts] And so we got to be careful. You know, 26, 27 is going to be difficult. 28 can be difficult. 29 and 2030 scares me to death. All right? Because we're moving in the wrong direction. Because it's real simple. If you spend more than you got coming in, if you got any savings, you will eventually burn down zero. Correct. [cough] [clears throat] So, I don't think the county taxpayers want us to be bouncing checks because we don't have enough money. Jim, could I just I'm not sure I heard what you're saying. Are you suggesting and I think it's not a bad thing. um that the salary ordinance that is currently in front of us as it sits that implements the the certain increases as as suggested by WIS study is causing a structurally imbalanced budget currently and you would like to peel that back to a point where it is structurally [clears throat] no my concern for me personally is that based off the reports [clears throat] that Jerry Hickman gave us at the last meeting we had the special session

pulling from memory. Um I'm unclear on the this this salary ordinance what the additional labor costs are going to be above and beyond the 2025. I I've [laughter] got the 2025. I know what 2025 are, but I don't know how much additional above and beyond what this salary ordinance is going to be from the 2025 total all-in labor cost. Number one. Number two, the other question I have is, you know, this increase, whatever that increased dollar amount is, you know, who who's that going to? What departments? What employees? How how did we determine it? Okay? Because [laughter] you got to remember if [clears throat] we all make a decision, you know, and I'm not saying I'm opposed to it, but I just don't, you know, I don't know what the cost of that is. Not only do I not know what the additional cost above and beyond 2025 labor cost is, but then you got to factor that [clears throat] in to the reality that we've only got, you know, as I said to Susan, we've got 176 grand in in in surplus in the [clears throat] general fund. I know we have to we're going to have to do a a an appropriation of 120,000 out of the general fund to put that back into the commissioner's budget for HSA contributions. All right, keep in mind on this budget tonight, the commissioner's office over spent their budget, so they're asking for another 149,000. So that comes off the reserve. So, we don't know exactly where we're going to be 1231 to 2025 as far as cash reserves in the general fund. And and and then also keep in mind that that, you know, if we've only got 56 in the black and if this this this uh salary ordinance puts us in the red, any additional appropriations we do for 2026 [clears throat]

is we're just going to continue to add to that deficit, [clears throat] right? And I think it's imperative that each and every one of us is acutely aware of where we are come January 1, you know, sometime in January, so that we know if we do any additional preparations, everything that you add is going to add to that deficit. All right. Okay. I got a question. What changed since our work session on the fourth? Thank you. [clears throat] Because you advocate my assumption. My assumption my assumption was signed the ordinance.

Here's what's changed is my assumption was is that I would have received a copy of the salary ordinance well in advance in order for me to address and answer those questions. Rather than that happen, what you know, I didn't get the agenda until 4:30 yesterday afternoon and I did not receive any copies of any [clears throat] ordinances for me to review prior to tonight's meeting. Fair enough, Jim. Why don't we just push it to our year end meeting? That'll give you time to review it. Does that work? Well, I think we all should. Yeah, we're right. Yeah. Okay. Is that [clears throat] acceptable, Julie? Susan, I think that's what Julie and I suggested. Intended. Okay.

It is what we suggested. Let's uh set up a meeting. We've got some options. Try and shoot for the 29th or 30th. 29th is a Monday. We like Monday, so we want to try and have a short meeting at uh what time? Possibly 8 morning. 10 a.m. is a good time.

Okay, wait a minute. Gary, you know the 30th is coming up. Next week is Christmas, right? So the 25th is on Thursday. That's Christmas holiday. You're saying on Monday the 29th. And let me ask this. Today's the 15th. Susan, how soon can I get a complete PDF of that entire salary ordinance prior to any meeting? Can I get an advanced copy of a complete document? Sure. I think what Julie and I told Gary before the meeting is that I think we have questions about four positions within the county that we needed some clarification [clears throat] on from the council.

No, from who? between her office and maybe the department head, making sure we're tracking who's receiving [clears throat] what stipened, things like that, so that we're we have their total compensation for 2025. Correct. Okay. What departments [clears throat] are these? One of them is probation, one of them's community corrections. Community corrections wasn't on your spreadsheet because you said it was grant funded, but so that wasn't included. Pardon? One of them is bar. What about the prosecutor's office? One of them is prosecutor's office. to the prosecutor's office, right? Yeah. Because we still had two federal grant issues that we've not resolved,

right? So like, okay, so you've got those four positions, but could you send that document out and then in the email list those four positions into the department so that we're aware of what you know whether you're having to get some uh closure on it. I'll forward the email that I sent to Julie yesterday at noon 12:30. Yeah. I mean, if you can send that out to all of us. [clears throat] So that would give us enough time. Gary should give us enough time to review that document

so that then when we if we do if when we meet on the 29th that that meeting can be a you know 60 to [clears throat] 90 minute meeting. How about the 29th at 10:00 a.m. That's fine. That's I'll put that with everybody. Yep. 29th to 10. Sounds good. 29th at 10 a.m. we'll have the meeting Monday. It's going to be easy to to miss this. So hopefully we get a reminder. Okay. Okay. that [clears throat]

there's another item on the agenda that I think we didn't show up formally here is the incumbrance policy which Scott asked for our last meeting and Susan put one of those together. It's a resolution. [snorts] I'd suggest suggest we review that and put that on the next meeting as well because it is unless Susan you want to kind of maybe briefly overview that today just to give us a heads up or

I mean it it really is just um a policy on your carryovers right so that the auditor's office can receive invoices with a claim attached that gets put in the year 2025 they must receive it by December 31 so that it gets put in 2025 and then they have until the end of January to pay that claim. I mean, it's just getting your expenses in the year that they actually occur as opposed to those rolling over into your 26 budget, which [clears throat] right where you had originally budgeted from and, you know, expected those expenses to come out. Um, if you don't want to pass it tonight, you don't have to.

Yeah, let's let's hang tight. We'll we'll get a chance to review that. That would be my suggestion. [clears throat] All right. [cough] acceptable. We'll review that. [snorts] Do that on the 29th also. [clears throat]

Do we need a motion to table these two? Um, that would be good. Yes, that might be a good idea. Okay. Motion to table those two. Uh, second. Yes. Darren, yes. Judy, yes. Scott, yes. Gary, yes. Patrick, Joel, yes. Jen, what are we doing? Yeah, you can vote this way. I can vote on this one. All right. Thanks. We were waiting for a state.

I'm trying to read this, right? [laughter] Okay. [clears throat] Next item is the Maple Leaf Management Group. Have an all [snorts] [cough and clears throat] and I assume this has got to do with the additional appropriation for the appropriation. Can you turn your mic on? [snorts] It's on. It's not very loud though. No, it's not. Mr. [clears throat] [snorts]

Um [clears throat] the the the request is for $300,000 from fund number 9010 which is the Brmpeny ticket tax which is money that's paid in a dollar [snorts] per ticket for each ticket we sell at the music center goes into this fund. That fund can be used specifically for um capital improvements, pay down debt on the music center. Um maintenance,

maintenance, capital improvements, but more but yes, maintenance. Um we are asking for the $300,000 because many of you know in the middle of our parking lot, we have an emerging wetland.

Oh, let me speak. Thank you. We we [snorts] have an emerging wetland and working with IDM and DNR. We would like to unfortunately purchase that back and it's basically done. We're buying land somewhere else that they can turn into wetlands um so that we can have that acre and a half back to turn into parking. Um, by turning that acre and a half back into parking, we project about $100,000 in revenue [clears throat] annually back to the music center. So, the the return on the investment of that would be pretty quick. The overall investment is going to be somewhere in the area of 500 550,000 [snorts] by the time we fill it and clean it up and gravel it and have it [snorts] ready to go. But the fund has more than this in it now. But when I submitted this, it was $329,650 [clears throat] is in the fund. There's a little more than that in there now just because more monies have come in. So, um, we're re we're funding that fund by somewhere in the area of $75,000 a year because we're selling 75 to 80,000 tickets. [snorts] So, that's how much money goes back into that fund each year. So we did use money from the fund back during co a small amount but wasn't very much we used during that questions the additional money is coming from your funds in from that

from that fund. Yeah from the 9010. No no no your cost 550. Oh yeah the additional would come out of our operating fund. Sorry. Well, it will come out of our capital improvements fund, but it has to be re reimbursed. So, it'll be reimbured out of the operating fund. So, with our money, [clears throat] quick 80 grand, dollar a ticket. What's the average attendance on the music center per event? 1,500. [clears throat] Well, I think it What's the capacity? 2,000 people. Yeah, 2,000. 197. You don't fill that capacity every show. Yeah. So the average $1,800.

Yeah. So if you got $80,000 a year coming in at 1,800. So you have about 44 shows a year, something like that. No, we have more shows. [clears throat] We have 78 shows for 2025. Oh wow. Okay. Yeah. But you expect about 80 a year in revenue. [clears throat] That's rough. Rough numbers are about 80,000 80,000 tickets. Just curious. I said 75 only because I was being on the cautious side. So yeah, I'm just trying [laughter] I'm just trying to back in to Right. Okay. But you know that'll be gravel. So $10 at $10 a car. [clears throat] That's kind of what they're projecting about $100,000 a year in revenue. [cough]

It's nice revenue stream. You said Kevin, you said um you're going to purchase acre and all the money won't be just for the purchase of an acre and a half, right? Go towards other improvements, right? Okay. Thank you. Yeah, we just chose a round figure. The money to IDM is about $250,000. [clears throat] Rough rough number. Yeah, it's kind of crazy that you got to buy back your own land. I mean there's other options. The other option is we can go and buy land somewhere and but then we have to maintain it. So we have to plant the plants and maintain that for 10 years.

Very interesting. And it would cost us a lot more than the $300,000 or the $500,000 to maintain that.

It would be an additional cost to the music center to pay people to go out and maintain our wetland that we've both said. and the event. We actually had looked at doing this sooner, but we've been working with the state, our state legislators, and and going through some changes at in the state and through IDM. It used [clears throat] to be a 3 to one swap has gone down to a 2:1 swap. And so, we think now is the [cough] time to take advantage of it because who knows what will happen next time they meet. So, we don't want it to go back. So, it won't go lower than that. So, so Susan, um, so this is an additional appropriation.

Well, I don't, it wouldn't be an additional appropriation. It' be an actual appropriation out of that. It's might be it might determine it's additional, but you're actually just appropriating money out of this. So, we've advertised it as an additional appropriation and

it's on our list. All right. Sounds good. And [clears throat] that will um offset expenses that would have come out of the music cent's operational fund which means the excess revenue that could be generated will be kind of padded because it's coming out of this ticket fee instead of your operational fund. So I mean this is kind of some of this money is going to come back to the community. I think that's [clears throat] right. Well, it s Yeah, it saves us from taking it all out of our our capital improvements fund.

And additionally, what this does is we have a parking lot now that will accommodate um enough cars to cover the attendance of a show. We're not going to have to pay to run shuttles. It's going to cut down on other capital. It'll cut down on It won't cut out the shuttles completely, but it will it will cut them down a lot. Yeah. It'll reduce the need for it. I mean, it's going to it's going to increase revenue more than just the parking fee. So, it's going to increase revenue and cut some expenses, right? Okay. That'll be in our total appropriations here. Thank you.

Don't don't run away yet. Talk about the CBC while we're at it. [clears throat] So you've got some requests from the CBC are listed here. You want to list through those by just go ahead and do we can just talk about each one of them. The total request is 275,000, but I think based on some conversations I've had today, I think we need to just talk about each one of them individually. Um the first one being um $80,000 for a pump truck. At four o'clock today, we had the ribbon cutting for the new pump truck out at Eagle Park. Um I would guess somewhere in the area of 40 to 40 50 people were probably there for

Deer Run or Deer Run. I said Eagle Park. Yeah, Deer Run. [clears throat] Um

very well attended, very well accepted. Um and the project is near completion. It's not 100% complete. Um but the commission visitors commission has said they would support this. Uh we gave them $30,000 early in the project before it got started and as part of a matching fund through Eli Lilly. So that was some of those funds were matched dollar for [snorts] dollar and then the additional $80,000 was kind of to complete the project. Um, so that's that is a request. Um, part of a conversation before the meeting is for the CDC to and I know Jim, we've got some documents to work. We're working on documents that you've requested. So, you haven't seen them yet, but we are working on them. U some governing documents. So, and some of those are going to come through that are going to kind of mirror some of the things that the quality of life group is doing, too. So, um, but I have talked to Mark and I will talk to the parks board just to make sure before we issue any final payment on this pump track that everybody's on board and that they're happy with the actual uh progress of this whole project. So, we want So, that's [clears throat] but there again, I want to get it before the end of the year and even if we encumber this over into next year just so we can pay it out in 2025. So that's the first one. Um pickle ball courts. Um those two are going in at Deer Run Park. Um originally they had asked we have we have given them some money towards those. Um but looking at the use of those, they need to be bigger, more courts than what they were planning to build. Um so that they would be tournament ready. They were going to build six courts, really need at least

eight courts for tour to be tournament ready. Um, we discussed that in two or three meetings uh CBC level and have we said we would fund that up to an additional $50,000. talking to Danny Key who's the president of the Bron Pickle Ball Club today. Um, they've gotten their approval through DNR because they had to take the plan back to DNR to expand this. They got their approval through DNR, but there's still some engineering that has to be done in order to make sure that the level of this doesn't interfere with floodway and flood plane and something like that. So, there's some [clears throat] engineering that has to be done. Um, so probably Mark, you might know a little bit too, but probably looking at spring before we actually can break ground on that. So, Jun, you're shaking your head. So,

I just can't believe the Department of Natural Resources has to approve a pickle ball. Okay.

Yeah. And and well, then they kind of put it back on. they say yes and we'll approve it to this level [clears throat] but then your the county has to approve it but you still have to get all these engineering studies done and that's you know to finish according to Danny to finish the pickle ball courts too just tournament ready doesn't include lights because those are additional 75 or $80,000 but it makes it still ready so we can do daylight things um they of this 50 they would need about 35,000 just for construction to finish it. Um [snorts] the other 15 and my [clears throat] original request for was 50. Before I found out was 35, but now with the engine probably going to need some extra money for engineering, too. So that's why I would just leave it up to $50,000 for for that one.

But Kevin, on both of those projects, it sounds like parks and recck board, you know, it's their property. They oversee the [clears throat] improvements on that property. the board does. And um and so you're going to talk to them about, you know, before we make payments and things, you're going to make sure the the folks that oversee the property and the project. And then we'll um will uh take over control of the property provide insurance, maintenance, and all that, which is somewhat done on the on the pump track. So yeah, but yeah, I'm going to meet Mark and we're going to talk about all that. Good deal. Yeah,

we want to see final invoices and all that, which I would see [clears throat] anyway, but we want to see all that before it's before it's completed. So, is there plenty of space available for the for the addition to make the eight the eight pick the co ball courts, uh, tournament ready, meeting regulation, everything. Is there any other buffer zone around it that needs to happen? I mean, I don't want to I don't think so where it's going to go. I think there's there's plenty of space for that. Okay. It does little thing. It's not crowding it in where it's going. So, pretty cool.

And it's there's there's parking right there. I mean, everything's right there. And actually, it's right next to the bottom track. I mean, there's the pump track and then there's the skate park. And then right next to that would be the pickle. I just want to make sure we don't run into a situation where we don't have enough space. There's something that had that got left out, so we can't have tournaments there. I just want to make sure we're not going to get in. I think I think we're I think we're set with with the location. Okay. Unfortunately, we don't have enough high ground. That's the [clears throat] question may be above and beyond tonight's conversation, but what's the risk liability with that pump track and kids flying up in the air and getting hurt, breaking arms and legs and all that kind of stuff.

Probably no different than the skate park that's already out there. Okay. Yeah. I don't know anything about it. It falls under there's an extreme sports clause that basically [clears throat] as long as you provide the proper signage. I don't have the state. Do you have much in the way of liability on that do you think or um I mean there's sure there's all kinds of liability. Well sue for anything but um but I mean it is it's really no different than the [clears throat] part. Um okay I just we don't have to I just Yeah. But as long as we have the proper signage, it's use [clears throat] at your own risk. If you've got the proper signage, double it just to make [laughter]

sure we'll get we'll get four more signs. Stupid. [clears throat] All right. The next item is $15,000 for [clears throat] application for the formation of our portion, Brany's portion of the formation of a regional economic development district. Um, I'd ask for $15,000. Look like Scott, I got an email today from Julie it's going to be about $4,000.

Um so they've gotten enough other private contributions that's helped cover that. So it looks like we're going to be at about $4,000 not 15. So um and so as soon there again as soon as we get that money to them that can get started. So and that's being all being handled through ROI. So, next [snorts] um the last item is well there's two items. The last big item is $100,000 for um to help for a consultant to help plan and create an economic development corporation for Brown County. Um we've asked I'm asking for up to $100,000 for that. We don't until we send that out for proposal for proposals. We don't really know what the cost is going to be to do that, but to help form create and form a economic public corporation for the county. [clears throat] [cough]

I'm hoping you're guessing way high. [snorts] I think it is way high. Yeah, I would because that to me Well, I think we've talked about probably Scott Brian probably more in the 50 to $75,000 range. 30 20 to 50. Yeah, it's it's high. You got to remember you get what you pay for.

Hang on a minute. Hang on a minute. I'm just you know I don't have any frame of reference in reality when it comes to you know economic development corporations, right? But I do have but I'm assuming that CDC would be [clears throat] a you know non you know Indiana nonforprofit corp number one. Number two, you know, the sticky issue is what kind of of a tax exemption status you can get approved through the NES part of, you know, the Internal Revenue Service. But I do you know to give you know just I am pulling from my perspective based off the history when I worked with Helmsburg and I was on the RDC you know we drafted I facilitated the entire project [snorts] wrote the the you know I wrote up the draft for [clears throat] the um the constitution and the bylaws. Okay. And then, you know, we discussed it in open meetings and then handed that off to Tom Bentman and Barnes & Thornberg, you know, and he did these legal leagues on it, right? I don't think the bill for that was all that much, maybe five grand, something like that. I'm pulling from that pull from memory, you know, and

friends and family discount. Yeah, there you go. Well, we should as much as we paid him every year. [sighs] Yeah. [clears throat] And then he gave everything. Everything was finalized. We voted had the board members got everything set up and then you know we elected a president and then he just [clears throat] simply had all the paperwork completed from Barnes and Thornberg for commitment and then sent off the application [clears throat] to the Internal Revenue Service you know and then they approved 501c3 you know I don't know if the EDC I I don't you know my technical experience isn't enough to determine because there's not either

yeah there's several there's several different but I'm just as I look at because you know to me the the you know the bylaws and you know the bylaws and and the constitution um is extremely important very very important in this EDC you know to structure it for success going forward. So I just hope and pray that we don't have to which is why we wouldn't want to hire somebody that's in that profession to do that.

Right. The only advice I'm going to give you professional advice would be that your board and the people involved in this process. You guys just do the draft. I mean you guys need to do the draft. You need to say you know what do we want in here? Yeah. How do we want this to read? You tell the attorney what you want, you know, and then from there you know cocreate that document. Don't to me I would not just say you know here and then they freak out and send a boilerplate [clears throat] document. Yeah, it's my concern. I'm all in favor of the EDC, but you know, [clears throat] I'm just concerned that y'all set it up for success because once you can get that EDC up and running and get that in place, then that EDC is going to be instrumental with regards to this EDA because to me, if you all don't do that EDC and get that, you know, the governing document with CDC or the CD, yeah, CDC is EDC and the governing documents for that, which is the constitution bylaws. You know, and then you get into this, you know, you get in bed with because basically you're getting in bed with Spencer County and and and Monroe County [clears throat] or Owen County.

Owen County. Yeah. Well, Spencer is in Owen County. That's Thank you. Right. That's where I'm getting crossed. Right.

Yeah. you know, and and and because I my concern with the EVA is I don't want the tail wagging a dog, you know, and you got Homeman County and, you know, especially Monroe telling Brown County, hey, we're going to go apply for this federal grant, you know, and then there's gatekeeping language in that grant and, you know, and then we don't do our due diligence on the grant and then we find out we start giving away some of our autonomy, if you will, as a county. That's what really scares me to death, you know, because every one of these grants have got, as you all know, you know, there to me it's it's basically legalized form of, you know, maybe extortion or or [laughter] if you Well, so

maybe not quite that far, but

yeah. Well, so if it counts as if, you know, if we're going to give you that, I just want to express, you know, let's get that those governing documents done with the CDC. Let's get that EDC set up, you know, and I'd really love to see those two set up and in place prior to [clears throat] any sort of agreement with this EDA. And I realize you got to submit the application, but what I don't what I guess what I'm scared to death of from a risk standpoint [clears throat] is that procrastinate, we go in, you know, get in bed with Owen and Monroe, sign that EDA thing, and then we drop the ball and everything else and we don't get it done. And the best thing about the the regional economic development district is that just allows us opportunities for grant money that we would not get otherwise. And so having that in place with an EDC

will be very very beneficial for the county. And you know the RDC kind of hangs out there in limo because there's things they can't do without the EDC. So that's

and keep in mind is you know for those of us that are of age 2050 we'll be here before we know it and that's my concern is that you know whatever we do today can we make certain that we get it set up so whoever's in this room in 2050 know what the intent was you [clears throat and snorts] know in 2025 26 and 27. Uh so we got several things happening here. Um some communication needs to occur between CBC and the property owner parks and wreck on a couple projects. Um we've got [clears throat] um the EDC which I do think is there's a whole lot of space there on that budget. And so, [clears throat] and then Susan, I guess my my question to you, it sounds like I guess my question would be Susan, um, we can do the public hearing tonight. Tell help us because I don't think we we're ready quite ready to leave. So, I I think you have [clears throat] um additionals which are on your additional appropriation ordinance [clears throat] as well as this that Kevin just discussed for the CBC that were advertised for public hearing tonight.

Mhm.

Um I Let me back up one second. The health department additionals that you see on there, that was advertised for the public hearing on December 4th. We held that on December 4th, right? Otherwise, for the [cough] general fund, for the 9010 fund, and for the uh 1127 fund, those were advertised for tonight. So, you um could open a public hearing on those additional appropriations. See if there's any public comment on those. You can close the public hearing. Again, we have certain ones that are ready for approval or denial tonight, whatever you so choose. And then the CBC that Kevin just explained, um, I have that on to to be part of that special meeting on December 29th along with the salary ordinance. Those would be the two things that you would discuss and vote on at that time.

Questions? Um, I didn't one [clears throat] thing I did not see on this additional preparation is the 275 for the CBC, right? That's not the next meeting. [clears throat] So the public hearing for this will be at the next No, it's advertised for tonight. It is, but it's just not on here. Okay. So, we're getting passed anyway. Okay. So, that will [clears throat] be passed or discussed at the 29th. You can vote on that on the 29th. You can hold your public hearing on this 275,000 that Kevin just discussed [clears throat] tonight because that's when it was advertised, right, for tonight.

And then one other question is, you know, I'm not sure we need in addition to this. It sounds like some of the projects like the regional project came down due to that's why I and I think the 30,000 KVs that's what I'm wondering. Yeah. And so my question Susan is we can do less we can do less than this but we can't say we're going to do more. Correct. That that's correct. Okay. Right. Okay. [clears throat] So uh we need to open the public hearing. Is that if we're ready maybe? Sure. For all additionals advertised for tonight. Yes. Go ahead. Do we don't have to technically close the meeting and just open the public hearing? Right. Just open the public hearing.

Okay. The meeting we're now opening a public hearing on the matter of the CBC requests and do I have to say that three times? [clears throat] Any any input on that? All right. Given that should we call say it three times just [laughter] click your heels together. I'll ask put your red sparkly shoes going twice. Any input on that? Going three times. Any further input on that? If you could take a motion to close that public hearing, that would be great. And

I move I move to close the public hearing portion of the CDC's $275,000 request. I'll second it. Darren, yes. Judy, yes. Scott, [snorts] yes. [clears throat] Gary, yes. Patrick, yeah. Joel, yes. Jim, abstain. So, what was again advertised for tonight for additional appropriation public hearing was your Brown County ticket fee fund, the 1910 the 300,000. Darren, I think you need to amend your request. You said only for the CBC public hearing portion, but it to your point, it's also included.

Well, but Gary was Gary was it doesn't include that. That's a different fund. The area was pretty particular in when he asked if there was any public comment on the CBC fund. So, should we open a public hearing for the music center funding yet or no? Right. The Brown County ticket fee fund. We need to do that now. Yes. Okay. Yeah. All right. We're going to open a public hearing and Brown [clears throat] County Music Center request for $300,000 to improve their parking lot from their ticket fee fund. any um input on that matter? Just as a matter of Could you go up to the podium here?

Hard to stand up sometimes. Sorry. The official name of that fund is the Brown County Entertainment Facility Admissions Tax. That's the That's the state statute. Our local fund name is different. state statute of the what that bill is called. Just go by the 9010. That's 9010. Okay. [laughter] 1910. Thank you. It'll confuse. [clears throat] Any further input on the [cough] music center request for the third time? Any input on the music center? I move to close the public hearing for the music center uh 9010 to 9010 fund. Take a second on that.

[clears throat and cough] I'll second. Darren, yes. Judy, yes. Scott, yes. Gary, yes. Patrick, yes. Joel, yes. Jan, [clears throat] stay. Stay. Say no. Oh, stay. Okay. [laughter] I move we Oh, nope. Sorry. You need to appropriate deal with your additionals. Oh, the health stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this has been going down. That's right. Right, right, right, right. Trying to keep you on your motion. That's right. Would you accept a new mot? I think I have to read it first.

Okay. Yeah, go ahead and read it and then we'll [laughter] do that.

Yes. Additional appropriation ordinance 2025 number 12-15-003 [clears throat] council bill number 19. Whereas it has been determined that is now necessary to appropriate more money than was appropriated in the annual budget. Now therefore section 1B it resolved by the county council of Brown County Indiana for the expenses of the taxing unit. The following additional sums of money are hereby appropriated out of the funds named and for the purposes specified subject to the laws governing the same. General fund 1,000 line number 30,000 other services and charges $30,000 and 300 $30,334. This is for the parks we discussed earlier. Next item is health fund 1159. This is line 30,000. Other services and charges $55,927. That's for the health department. And the next item is Brown County ticket fee fund 9010 which we just discussed uh 4,000 line 40,000 capital outlies $300,000 for Yeah,

just one one clarification. The parks and wreck item was $30,334 in case I didn't [snorts] hear that right. Sorry for the reduction. It was actually $30,333.34. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate that. It's actually on here. Correct. Just just trying to save [laughter] since we're not making pennies anymore. [laughter] Oh, that's right. That's good. The next nickel. Okay. Okay. [clears throat] Now, can you take a motion?

Yes. [snorts] I move we approve additional preparation ordinance 2025, number 12-15-003, council bill number 19. Take a motion in. Take a second. Second. [clears throat] Darren, yes. Judy, yes. Scott, yes. Gary, yes. Patrick, yes. Joel, yes. Jim, gotcha. All right. We second read. Oh, second reading. Oh, okay. Sure. We didn't we didn't approve unanimously. Can we do that? Oh, he abstained. Yeah,

he abstained. Actually, it because I was a little bit prepared for this at your December 4th meeting, I went back to find that statute. There's a specific line in that statute that says it does not apply to additional appropriation ordinances. Oh, is that right? Interesting. It does. I And I will find it again. I will cite it for you. So, a no vote would not trigger a second meeting. Correct. On additional on additional appropriations. On additionals. Yes. Okay, that makes sense. All right, so second reading. Should we should we do this now or do we want to go ahead and make this part of our December 2019? I'm asking everybody. Okay. Okay. [clears throat]

Make a motion to suspend the rules requiring a second meeting so we can second that's for the parks and wreck monopole, the health fund, and the music center. It second do that. Darren, yes. Judy, yes. Scott, yes. Gary, yes. Patrick, abstain. Joel, yes. Jim,

abs. [laughter] Wow. [snorts] That was a boat song years ago. So here that let me get over here. Read it. Just a motion to suspend the rules. Now we have to do a motion to do it. Okay. Motion to uh Oh, we got to read it the title at least to get D will allow you to do that. No. Yeah. Go ahead. So this is the title. Title only. Yep.

Okay. The additional appropriation ordinance 20252-15-00003 council bill number 19. Second motion to approve. It's moved. [clears throat] Second. Anyone? I'll second. [clears throat] Darren, yes. Judy, yes. Scott, yes. Gary, yes. abain. Joel, yes. Jim, abstain.

I know. [laughter] Now, would you take a motion? Will the Clark doesn't mind? I'll let you motion. Let's all abstain from just [laughter] cool.

Thanks. Holy kind of attractive.

Thank you. You're welcome. Are you asking what track is? What's the track? It's a It's a It's a biking.