Area Plan Commission (apc) - Regular Meeting

just hanging out. All fired up. Where to go? Three hour threehour uh funfest. Funfest. That's what I like. Oh yeah. Like my wife said, "What would you rather do? Being doing that and and irritating people or would you rather watch television?" I said, "Well, I think I'd rather go there. It's more entertaining. [laughter] Hey, you know what I found out last night? What? What? I thought you pulled that off. I did. It didn't. Okay. It's not I'll ignore it. Yeah. Yeah. Please do. Just draw a line through.

You ready? Did you figure that out or whatever it was? Hey Julie, we're ready to start 17th. will be prepared for. You've been around with our fireplace. Nobody has. No, not me. Not [snorts] that it's a bad thing. No, I love that smell. Yeah, they are. Isolating yourself from us, huh? I don't [clears throat] blame her. Really? [laughter] She's heard all the comments that she wants.

Harder to hit there with a snowball. Let's say the pledge of allegiance [clears throat] allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, Scott, you want to make an introduction? We've got to do

Yeah. Uh appreciate uh a couple guests coming uh up today to help us better understand [clears throat] this regional economic development uh commission that we've talked about several months ago and I've spared the council more discussion during our budget process so we could focus on that. But we're through that and so I'm going to come back to it. um Monroe County, Owen County, and Brown County uh have the opportunity to form an economic development region. Um, you may recall, oh gosh, last winter, uh, the council, uh, anointed me, that's more punishment than a reward, uh, the responsibility of seeking new revenue outside of property and income tax sources. And that's where the inkeeper tax came in, the uh gate fee came in and this regional economic development commission. So this is a result of what [clears throat] the council asked me to do identify new funding buckets. And so this is one of the three I mentioned all three that stuck out to me as kind of some lowhanging fruit and something that you know we've never been able to access before for the types of things that we are currently behind in funding such as [snorts] [clears throat and sighs] infrastructure, housing, public safety um and employment type of issues. news. Uh we know we struggle with um finding employees to do everything from cleaning this building to building your house and everything in

between. And so um those are the types of things that these economic development grants from the federal uh US Department of Commerce can help us fund. Um, so that's how we got to this point. Um, and we're we're lucky to have uh two people here who know way more than I do about this. One of them, Greg Jones from Southern Indiana Development, Southern Indiana Development Commission, is one of these regional groups. And so, and you've been in that position for several years. I'll give you some a second here to to introduce yourself. Um, if we have any questions, he can answer those, right? He can tell us what his experience is with those

and what kind of fruit. We can determine what fruit we like. That's the beauty of this thing as a county. We like certain kinds of fruit. We [cough] we can determine what we like to eat. Cherry cobble.

Yes. Cherries on the menu. Uh, etc. And so, uh, Greg has been functioning in this role for, uh, several years as the director of that similar regional organization for a southern group of counties. We are one of, I think, six counties in the state that are not a part of this type of region and able to access these types of funds. And so, you can imagine over just say 20 years, all of the needs that we've had that [snorts] we could have leveraged uh bond funds with or reduced the need for bond funds to fund leveraged our tax funds to make those funds go further and sustain our rates. It's it's millions of dollars probably based on the projects we've seen developed that could have been funded in part by some of these funds. So the other interesting part here is the inkeepers tax has allowed us for the first time to have a pool of funds that we can actually significantly match with major projects, right? I mean right now we're working off [snorts] debt to fund major projects. The inkeepers tax can be the seed money for a match to new federal grants for the types of projects that we have [clears throat] deferred maintenance uh on. So, we've got new local inkeepers tax funding and this would be new federal grant dollars that, you know, in my experience it, you know, putting a scenario like that together is is something we have not previously been able to do. [cough and clears throat] I know most of our other counties um in a row is kind of the shining example. They've got the

ability to raise private capital to match for major projects. They also don't have access to these funds and haven't traditionally. Owen County, Marcy Johnson has been before us. Marcy, you recall Marcy several months ago committ chamber economic development. They also don't have access to these funds. They're one of the six counties as well. And they are very much like us.

Uh they have a state park. They have lots of forest. They do have a little bit. They have uh Spencer and so they've got, you know, like Boston Scientific is there. They've got some some kind of some ability to do things, but they're they're also interested in in opening up this new funding source. Um I'm sure I'm missing a lot, but but that's how we got to where we are. Council 18 months ago asked me to look for new revenue. This is number three on my new revenue list that I'm putting before you for your consideration. Kevin is in the background or back of the room here. Kevin Alt, chair of the CVC. Um the CVC has agreed to fund and I think it's up to 15,000 or up to 16,000 uh of the initial cost to pro to accomplish the first step of this process which is for us to apply. We have to be we have to apply. We have to be accepted and in order for us to join this region become a region. And so in order to apply uh we need funds to do that in order to put a plan together. And I probably they're nodding so I must not be too far off course but um and so that's why we're here. The CDC and Kevin I believe it was unanimous vote to move forward with this application.

15,000 is what we Okay. and we said, you know, up 215, we're kind of the they're kind of the last money in because we've got private donations as well, matching this this inkeepers tax contribution. I believe it came from Duke Energy. Is that Yeah, one of the private So Duke Energy for Brown County kicked in $5,000 and then the inkeepers tax is now kicking in the other 15. Uh the council I believe needs to do a new appropriation for those funds or not that that's that's money within our budget. It's money within your budget, but I think Kevin, if the CBC wants just kind of a nod from the council,

we can do that. I'll be coming for you from contract anyway. Okay, Scott. Okay. Okay. Just and you guys will probably speak to this. Sure. That's 20 grand total. Who's the 20 grand paid to and what organization is that approves? Great segue. Who who approves this? Excellent segue. And I'm gonna Yeah, let them because I start Let's start with that. So that money has been raised locally. So we 20 grand private and public match. Yeah. Um and thankfully the other great thing here is Julie, how big from ROI, right? Okay. our our already regional partner that covers several counties,

11 of the 11 um they have initially agreed to help us navigate the process with their staff and all the administrative burden that would be falling on Julie's office [snorts] for this type of activity. And so with that, Julie, how big from ROI uh is here to to help us kind of understand and and I think [clears throat] the from the administrative portion of this, Julie's the expert and from the actual [clears throat] regional group, how it functions, what it does, what it doesn't do. Greg is the expert if you want to target your question, but Julie, I'll pass it on to you to kind of kick us off.

Yeah, let me just answer. Good morning. Um, thank you for letting us join you this morning. Um so just to your most uh immediate question so each county Brown Owen and Monroe um through private public [clears throat] match as Scott said have each would contribute 20,000 total 60,000 and then when we apply uh to the US EDA under the Department of Commerce um to we would then be granted uh if our application is approved a federal match of another $60,000. So $120,000 total. And then that would allow um Ry working with the three counties to then do what is called a sets which stands for a comprehensive economic development strategy plan. Quite a mouthful.

What what what federal department or agency? US um economic development administration. And that falls under what? Department of Commerce Department. Yeah. Okay. All right.

And so, um, we would take that $120,000, um, to, uh, hire a consultant. But, you know, again, ROI convening all three of county county's representation. Uh, we have what is called, and we're required to do certain things. one of which is to have a committee um a steering committee guide this whole planning process. Um and so we would go through that process and um that plan would really be kind of our road map for the priorities that you all determine um and how you want to work together. And then [snorts] one more application of submitting that plan. Um again back to the US Economic Development Administration and they formally approve the plan. Um they may [clears throat] have a little bit of back and forth with this. Um and if they approve the plan then you become what is known as a economic development district and you have that designation by the feds. And then that is truly what opens up your funding opportunities um to apply for certain funds that normally if you're not if you don't have that designation as an economic development district you're not eligible to even apply. Um I will tell you and Greg can probably speak most to this. The uh attractiveness of this is a lot of the federal funding opportunities that can come it could be upwards of 50 to 80% of the project cost coming from the feds. So that to Scott's point really reduces what you would have to come up with as a local. And

[clears throat] so it's just really a means for these bigger projects, especially as it relates to infrastructure, to stack your funding so that the burden isn't as much on you. Um, so so let's go back because I didn't get a chance to write it down and I'm not very smart and I have a short memory. What department with federal government? Commerce. So it's the Department of Commerce and under that is what is called the US Economic Development Administration. Federal Agency. Okay. And basically, let me feed this back to you and tell me if I understand it correctly. Um, yeah. So, you got you've got this you got the 60K.

Uhhuh. but the three counties and then there's another 60k that comes in and basically we're going to the US economic development under the department of commerce and we're basically negotiating agreement with the United the US department of commerce the US com the US economic development which is an agency under the the department of commerce And once that agreement is in place, now all of a sudden you have access to federal funding that you otherwise would have never had access to. Yeah. [cough] Is that is that is that

Yeah, I think that's fair. I would maybe characterize not so much an agreement as you um form that steering committee that's made up of representatives from all of the three counties, right? It's more of you deciding in that plan that you're going to develop what your priorities are for the three of your counties. And it's basically your driven road map [clears throat] on what you are determining your priorities are and how you currently work together, how you foresee yourselves working together in the future. And [clears throat] that's what you submit uh to the federal government.

Yeah. cuz you're you're operating what you're doing is negotiating between the three counties kind of a vision statement if you will. Yeah. Right. And a list of priorities and you're going to the Department of Commerce from a and trying to come together from an I'm going to use the term um uh of a um um my mind just went blank. like a gatekeeper or no economy of scale. Okay. To create Yeah. some capacity

because you kind of take a three count small well Monroe's not but you got Spencer and Brown and you're going to collectively try to develop an economy of scale because then I'm assuming then those three counties are working together right and kind of looking at it as a whole or could you introduce it's a great question to come in. Let me jump in. So, Southern Indiana Development Commission, we're your regional planning commission to the southwest. So, [clears throat] Knox, Davies, Green, Martin, and Lawrence, right? So, those are my five counties. We do regional projects where we look at things as a whole. We also do individual projects for individual communities. Okay?

So, it just it depends on the project and that's really what we focus on. We use our comprehensive economic development strategy which gives us uh uh our large regional strategies but also gives individual strategies. So if we need a bathroom at Scott Park, we you know we list that in our sets. Um if we need an overall housing initiative then we list that in our sets. Um and and so both are kind of put into that and then really it falls on the the regional planning commission, the staff there to one stay trained in all the different federal funds that are available to communities, local communities. Uh and then two to be able to reach out to all of the local communities and figure and work through projects that they have uh in order to move them from just a concept into getting funded for a grant and then administering those funds on the back end. Making sure the project stays to where all the budgets match up and and all the all the paperwork is filed. Um,

Greg, on that point, I'm sure you're appealing to Julie right now because, you know, when we deal with federal funds, typically if it's inhouse in our office and the auditor, it's a heavy burden, right? And it's complicated and and we probably [clears throat] need support.

I can probably So, and the other issue too is that we as a small county lack the intellectual capital that a county like Bartholomew County probably has access to because of, you know, because of Bartholomew County, Columbus, right? And same thing with Bloomington. Bloomington and Monroe because of the composition of the county are going to have the skill sets required in order to be able to work the deal and put the deal together. Whereas we as a county Well, I I don't know, but probably lack the intellectual capital and the experience in working.

I would say you're very similar to a lot of the communities I have in my backyard. You know, you know, places as small as like Alfordsville where we've got or town of Crane where you know there's a couple hundred people there. They still get our attention. We talk to them at least annually if not more than that in talking about what projects they have going on and then we try those are typically a lot of our most used clients because they have the most needs and have the least ability to assist themselves. Uh and so we spend more time a lot of times on our smaller communities than we do on our larger ones. Uh just because they have a larger budget and can kind of handle some of those projects maybe have that capacity. Okay,

Greg. Uh, real quick, Patrick, just to further put a point on that, we've got one incorporated town, Nashville. Then we have Helmsburg, Nawbone, Bean Blossom, that have no incorporated status, no staff, no government, just a census place. Yeah. And you help Helmsburg. Yeah. We've done projects that are like would be the township was kind of the where it was at, like helping out some different fire departments and things like that. township was was uh the organization. Um and then we do some projects where it's like the county is the applicant

and so and then it helps everyone in the entire county. So like one of the programs we we saw was a need for our region that we've done for the last at least 24 years has been an ownero occupied rehabilitation grant where we go after we go out and get HPG funds and then we go out and get Indiana housing community development authority funds or the office community rural affairs funds. either those we match them against each other and then we have a program where we uh fix up it's typically 18 different people's homes in a community. Um and you know typically these are these are folks that you know are living in their homes but have run out of retirement money, have run out of uh whatever else and can't keep their homes up. So, we come in, fix the wiring, fix the heating, fix the roof, and then that allows them to stay in the the homes longer. So, it's like, you know, being in the game as long as I've been, I've been here for 24 years, working for SIDC, uh, 18 as the director. [snorts]

Um, and but we've just learned different ways of of of going about getting funds for our communities. um and really being a partner at the table as they're developing up projects um that are going to steer your community in one way or the other for the positive

question. So, moving aside from the benefits, what what is the gain for the federal government? Because I've been associated with government agencies, it's it's like a quidd proquo. They don't give you something unless they get something, right? So, do we lose control? What what on the managerial aspect? How does that affect affect us in our county government? Putting aside all the good and wonderful things, what do we have to give? That was my question to add to that. Property rights to [clears throat] autonomy, you know, federal government grants and monies generally come with strings.

Absolutely. Um there's a grant agreement and that lays out what those strings typically are. Um, [clears throat] and so with the Economic Development Administration, one of their most popular programs is the public works program. And so it helps out with your infrastructure for job creation. So you have to have a project that's tied to job creation. Uh so like typically you're expanding an industrial park or you've got um an area where [cough] [clears throat] you can't grow as a community anymore because your water capacity is is is at you know is constrained. um then you can go out to the economic development administration make an economic argument to them that by doing this it will help increase job the number of jobs in your area as well as the economic value of of your organization. So the Economic Development Administration, what they're wanting out of this is to see US jobs grow. And so that's the quidd proquo is is

again, you're not really answering my question without all of the fluff that you're giving me here. What what is the direct control over them and what do we directly have to are accountable to them for? Because the government does nothing and and I'm not saying that I'm against this. They just give they don't just give you something for nothing. The federal government expects something. What is that direct and to the point? What are they expecting from us? I think they want they want two things. One, you know, there's always the compliance, right? [clears throat] Right. The reporting,

right? And so that's the capacity issue is where you know ROI would kind of act um as the helpful administrator to the three counties to build that capacity much like Greg functions now for his five counties. So it's always the compliance the the reporting that you have to do but secondly you know you don't get the money unless you put in some skin of your own which is some sort of match. The difference is I think compared to some grants theirs are more attractive because many times you can get them to contribute 50 to 80%. So again your local match isn't as much um as maybe a state grant where you have to go 50/50 or whatever right I mean it just depends. Let me take you through an example.

Beyond that though, I think the point the point is does this um subject us to federal regulations, prevailing wage requirements, um issues like that.

So, prevailing wage uh you know will be a part of the project. You're going to have to pay prevailing wage. you're going to have to do the environmental review which is a called a NEPA uh national environmental protection agency report uh that will come along but there's consultants that assist in those types of projects. My organization we we will do the NEPA if it needs to be done [clears throat] for for a project in our region. Um [clears throat] the in the grant agreement you're going to have by America build America attached in there. So, you're going have to have to try and buy American steel, American products whenever you're you're get awarded for those funds. Um, now your planning funds don't have any of that attached to it. That's only on a specific construction project that you have with EDA. So, you're going to have prevailing wage. you're going [clears throat] to have a useful life clause in there which basically says we're going to operate this in the way we told you we were going to operate it for 20 years. Um and so you know can you convert a water tower into something different like I don't know maybe here you can put into moonshine or something like that but like [laughter]

but you know but uh you really can't convert infrastructure into any other purpose. So that really that clause was really never something that was really going to be maybe take a specific example you know and and yeah like like a project in Helmsburg there's a lot of interest in Helmsburg and None and they don't really have much of anything like they've got water issues issues you know street issues storm water issues housing issues we fixed the storm water issues

we did yeah hopefully mostly but so let's say you do an infra a a project in Helmsburg. You know, I I've heard some of the other concerns about, you know, gosh, is the federal government going to control all of a sudden our zoning or our um are there DEI requirements? Is there a prohibition of what I don't know, but those are the kind of things I think some Yeah. And I just want to add this because I think I just brought up the website because it's US Economic Development Administration right here. It's the actual site. So you clearly I'm going to have to do my due diligence on this agency. [snorts]

But I would I would assume that you know as you go forward over the next 25 years how this agency's managed is totally interdependent upon the current administration. Right? So depending on whatever the administration's in, then that's going to be directly affect what goes on within this agency. So that's something we don't typically by partisan agency. Yeah. Right. For the most [laughter] [cough] years or whatever. What's your experience?

My experience is we've had 24 years working with them. Wellif my agency goes back over 55 years. Um, and EDA has been one of those agencies that is trying to do economic development, right? I mean, it's in their title. And so, you're you're u so like right now we've got a project with the Westgate Crane where we're doing new wells for a rural uh water system, new wells, new lines in order to help for uh industrial growth out at the Westgate Crane Technology Park. That's an EDA project. Now, for your smaller communities, they probably don't have a job creation element attached to a water or sewer or storm water project, right? But they do probably have some sort of economic hardship, whether per capita, low per capita income or low unemployment rate or high unemployment rate, sorry. Um, and so that would make you eligible for going after from grants from the Office of Community Rule Affairs. So those are actually federal funds that come uh from the housing and urban development and then get passed to the state of Indiana and then the state of Indiana through the office of community rural affairs doss out that money to to non-entitlement communities. Um, so non-entit,

we're non- entitlement. You're non- entitlement. Bloomington is an entitlement community. You're non- entitled. Um, and so dos those those ladies out where you have to kind of compete for those different projects. But if you have if you can put together a good enough project and have experienced grant writers [clears throat] uh to put the project together, then you are, you know, more likely to get funded. You've forgot more than I ever know about this subject, but I want to make a claim and then I want you to tell me whether or not my claim is completely out of line. Oh, this will be fun. Or [laughter] make two. All right. All right. I'll make Okay, he will. [laughter] We all know that we've got 38 trillion in national debt.

Sure. The only way we as a nation can dig ourselves out of the hole is we have to grow the GDP. Mhm. If we do not grow the GDP, we run the risk as a nation of this thing collapsing in on itself. Fair. Fair. Okay. That also holds true for the states, the individual states. So when we get into the subject of economic development, really the driving factor on economic development are the government structures because they have to be able to increase revenue. Now politically through the media we language it as well we want to add jobs while that's important for you know all the peasants

you know we peasants want to have jobs so we can eat and own a house and you know live the American dream but in the grand big picture you have to this for example I read that [clears throat] when I took office in January of 23 that as an elected official one of the primary responsibilities is economic development that you're supposed to work try to support.

And so what we're doing and and and it's like with Indiana, we've got what 6.8 million people, right? And I do know we've got we have 31 counties with less than, you know, that account for about 7 and a half% of the state's population, which is a little bit over a half a million people. And the challenge with those counties is that you look at the cost of county government, you look at the cost of the school corporations, you know, and if you use a hundred million, you're talking $3.1 billion to try to cash flow local government and schools that these counties are not producing the GDP. So this issue is is what you're what what we're saying is is that we've got to we're coming together with Owen Monroe Brown County because then that opens up intellectual capital that we currently do not have access to. And then what that does is that opens up the door potentially to be able to apply through grants through this United States Department of of Economics. Is that

is that perception? Yeah. You agree with what I just said? I want to tattoo parlor near where we can get that put on me. So I I will say I I I'm not going to challenge you on that. Well, you can. You're more than welcome to. Yeah. What I would say is if you could broaden your your understanding of what economic development is because it's not wholly about the GDP. the debt is. Yeah. But like it's not our communities are not fully our economic development initiatives are not about growing the GDP. Okay.

A lot of times it's about making sure that people when they turn their water on it turns on the toilet and flushes it. You know, we're we're bring it back to a little bit more basic. Try and create the amenities that make people want to live in your county. Um, you know, and I I know that you've got a lot of amenities, especially here in Nashville, but it also then drives out people from living here because people start buying up the houses for for tourist rentals.

Tourist rentals, right? Um, you know, so it's it there's a lot of things that you can support in economic development. Could be child care. I mean, that's been one of the biggest initiatives that I've been working on lately is trying to trying to help the region out, just understand child care and what do we need to do on a statewide level to fix child care initiative so that the communities can do something about it because right now it's affordable child care is is you're unsure of who you're leaving your kids with a lot of times. So, um or there's no structure to it. Um, you know, housing has been the latest challenge and how do we get more developers that want to come into our region? So, we've done initiatives to work with ROI on that of like how do we bring developers to to grow from a two home development a year to a 10 unit development a year? How do we start making incremental development that way? [snorts] How do we look at our zoning for some of our communities? Because the zoning actually is restrictive from allowing, you know, uh accessory dwelling units or um or even to rebuild the same home that was there that got demolished, you know, on on that same piece of property. So, it's like looking at all of the things that make up economic development, make up a community, um that is economic development for us. EDA, their metric is jobs.

That's what it comes down to. Whenever I have to make a justification in grant, I've got to figure out a way of making a jobs argument. Okay. [clears throat] That's just who it is. Um Yeah. But if you don't have the foundational covered, the foundation covered, right? You're never going to be able to add anymore, right? Period. I mean, it's I will stress to your because that you just helped me shift a little bit there. Yeah. Because you're right that if you don't have the It's like basketball. If you don't know how to dribble and pass, you can't play basketball. Yeah. Right. You don't know how to take the ball, you don't I've been to some of those games. Yeah. [laughter] [clears throat]

To just a couple of your concerns that several of you raised. You know, just so let's say we get the designation from USCDA for your [snorts] three counties. just because you have the designation. You can be as active in applying for things as you want or you can sit on the sidelines. I I don't I want you to feel comfortable in the fact that you still choose as a county or a community on whether or not you pursue grant funds. You can do it in partnership with Brown and Monroe or if it's something again based on the plan that you all work together and that you labeled as a priority but you can do it yourself as a county or if Helenberg wants [clears throat] to pursue something separately as a township for

so Brown County doesn't have to worry about giving up its autonomy. No. No. Let me put a question on that point. Let me let me ask. So let's say None wants to do something impactful to that community and they get into it and their sponsor if it's the county or the township or the fire whoever they get into it and they read the grant agreement they're like we don't like that we don't like that we don't like that. What are their options at that point? You don't take the money and don't sign it. Yeah. Okay. Let me I'll give an example. down to even less than the county decides [cough] it's [clears throat] the applicant can choose.

I mean, most of the requirements are construction requirements. They're not how you live your life afterwards. Uh I will say there's there is one grant that's a clearance grant that will kind of make you hold your property for 5 years without really doing anything on it. you've cleared a brown field and so you're at least minimally better for having that brownfield cleared and that property will sit there for five years [clears throat] until you're out of the grant agreement. But for the most part, everything's construction related on on that grant agreement what I was telling you the prevailing wage and the got to have an environmental review and you've got to do all of these different provisions. That's just cover your butt uh stuff that the federal government wants to do to make sure that people don't think there's waste, abuse, or fraud going on in their organization.

Give you an example of that. Okay. About 15 years ago in Elvisburg, the volunteer fire department wanted to build a new fire department.

So, they speced it out. They went out looking for grants. They ended up getting I believe it was a federal grant. They had to drop the size of it to twothirds the size of what they wanted because the constraints on union labor blah blah blah all the other things hoops they had to jump through. Turned out whoever got the contract I think they ended up subcontracting to Amish people who subcontracted to Mexican people whatever. But the fact was is the constraints were put on it they had to drop the the size of fire. Now the concerns they're having here is let's say you say child care. Somebody comes in and says you want to have regulated child care. Well, let's say you got some nice people out there doing child care. All of a sudden, will that influence that they have to get shut down? You talk about zoning or things of that nature [clears throat] where they may have to get shut down because they don't have you you have one entity that is now getting a grant and it's doing something. Uh will that influence them? Or let's say you're going to kid can't have a lemonade stand anymore. Those kind of constraints. Those are the things that we're concerned with. Does it because this is a free free willing community.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't I I would say I would not have those concerns. Now, I I understand your argument on the child care because that does raise concerns where you're sitting there going like, "Well, wait a minute. If we help subsidize the child care, like aren't we taking money out of all the other child care organizations that have been in our community and that kind of stuff. um in I work, you know, I live in Davies County, so I know those numbers a little bit better than other counties, but they currently only have 49% uh of child care covered in their county. So, there's still 51% of the children that aren't that are figuring it out, whether it's a parent or or or a grandparent or a neighbor or, you know, that is part of a daycare. And really there's only one entity that meets the standard of the path to quality in the state of Indiana. So there's four path to quality with child care and there's only one entity that meets that and that's the head start agency. You have to be be you know in poverty to be able to have access to that. So really, you know, there are, you know, if you do set up a child care, all it's going to do is raise the standards. And if you set it up in such a way that you're you're trying to help the other agencies in your community, so like if it had a training center for people to come and get get training to to move from level one to level two to level three of those past quality, then you're starting to raise the level of education for all your kids before they get to the schools corporations. So there's, you know, nothing's black or white. We've got to figure out ways of being able to make it work so that it meets with the core values of your community. And and your core values aren't handouts, right? Your core values is how do we make this work for all of our [clears throat] citizens?

So what's the annual administrative cost do we know? So my organization we have a very low cost because this is this let me before you go to try to answer that you got ROI I'm all too familiar with who ROI is right and then you got your organization out of Lot right and then you set up this EDA so the EDA is a separate contract I'm assuming between Monroe Owen and and Brown yeah and then those three counties have a separate contract that contract then bolts up with ROI and then your organization correct well I don't know where I fit in

I'm looking at I'm trying I'm trying to understand the organizational chart so so you get the sets let's take it by steps you get the sets complete and you form an economic development district which is a separate corporate nonfor-profit corporation not for profofit or you could set up under the Indiana code that way it makes it a government entity okay well see I'm I'm I'm a government entity with no government funding. It's the best of both worlds, right? So, uh Okay. So, you know, the way I'm funded is I get membership dues from my counties. Um and then I take that and I use it to go after a partnership planning grant with the Economic Development Administration. Okay. And so that's and so

and we can talk about this later. I just off the top of mine, what's the annual cost? Just 20 grand, 30 grand. What would you guess per county? Yeah, I I I'd hate to answer that because you're you're trying to stand up a brand new organization. Okay. So, we can address that down the road. We can address that down the road. All right. But you're standing up organization. So, you're probably going to have to hire this entity we create. We're all going to have to pull in money for the operating cost of this entity. Correct. Yes. Okay. All right. That that's good. We can stop to get the services that you want out of. Yeah. Yeah, but my organization B state, we have a $4 million budget, right? For [clears throat] a government $4 million budget, no government funding, right?

We get ours from doing project, [clears throat and cough] right? And so it's the the dollars off of those. So there's a you know, the EDA project in Green County, there's that's a five $6 million project. Uh we get some administrative dollars off of that project. So, so let me let me do this just in it's it's a quarter to 10 I just to save time here Scott.

Yeah. The ne one of the steps that I think that the early on [snorts] is we as a community with the CDC and would have to have a conversation and sit down and have a conversation of how we want to structure it at the county level and then how that relationship with this new organization we're going to establish how that works and we're going to want to hammer out that internal structure because right out of the gate we want to address you know how do we it's not nothing's It's the 10 staffle theory. There's no such thing as a free lunch in life. So, there's going to be some cost to this. So, we're going to want to know internally here as a county, how do we cash flow those year-to-year operational costs and then how does this organization within the county then work in conjunction with this new EDA organization and how what's that organizational structure look like?

And so, we've got to work on that internally. And I think that can be a key part of when you're doing that comprehensive economic development strategy plan the set right because the consultant can take us through different models. Yeah. Okay. How it might work best but that would be kind of the next step would it notense. Actually, I think you know what ROI, who I work for and and myself, you know, I don't think you need the answer right now because I think it's going to be part of Really? I got it all figured out. Well, good. [laughter] Sorry, I'm just joking.

No, no, no. But I you know that way you if when so basically you know we're at the point where you know you you as the council are comfortable with the you're part of the local match. We turn in our just initial application to draw down those funds to allow us to do that plan all three of you together in which all three of you will have representation. I think that's a crucial part of that plan is how what do you want that to look like? Where are you guys comfortable? Right. Right. As a Yeah. Before we cut a check, we I think we to me personally, I'd want to at least you don't have to have a permanent

decision made, but you'd want to have a collective pretty good idea of how this is going to work, the framework for it before you go cutting that check. Yeah. And you can you can even, you know, you can even go through that planning process, right? Turn it in. Yeah. Wait to get your answer that if you're going to be declared an official economic development designation

and and then from there, you know, you can um further decide how you want it to work. So there's there's multiple points where you can uh you know find those answers, have someone show you different models that may work best that you're most comfortable with and then decide. Um but I I think what I want to emphasize is for all of you because I get that there's a comfortableness level, right? that is exactly

um you know you're the stewards of the taxpayer dollars and you know you retain I guess for lack of a better word the ability to be in the driver's seat and decide you know what you want to apply for what you don't want to apply for you set the priorities um as part of that planning process what that model would look like for that future organization so you know I I I want to, you know, give you comfort in that and I think that's I'm not speaking out.

Well, can I clarify something? I think you know this the community economic development strategy which is what CBC and our private funer has accumulated funds to proceed with that will it sounds like if I'm hearing this right that will help us determine what this regional infra organization looks like how it's built what it focuses on who the partners are etc but then also um Um it develops the strategy for our focus and we talked about some of the areas where you know the region as a whole you know public safety, housing, infrastructure, workforce etc would probably align across three counties. But I guess my question and Greg, you mentioned this, you've got a a budget for that organization obviously and and and in our case with these three counties, I could see Monroe County having way more activity than Owen and Brown. And if that activity generates administrative revenue for the district, does that help offset Brown County's contribution? It it does in my area.

It does in your Okay. Right. So, my my uh county contributions uh outside of projects is probably about 5% of my budget.

And like, you know, when I go and I speak to my my counties at the end of the year and tell them about all the great things I've done, I I do a financial analysis for the x number of dollars you've given me. This is how much have been returned to your county. Typically, it's $200 for every dollar that they put into my organization. So, it's a great return on investment. They're always uh you know excited about that. Now, I will say, you know, you're you're starting a new organization. New organizations take more money to get started than existing organizations. So it's just but you want to you ultimately what you need to do is find an organization that you trust because you won't use them if you don't trust them and they won't be able to coordinate communication amongst different elected officials or communities uh and counties if all of those communities counties don't trust them.

Yeah. Part of our concern was being Bloomington is so much larger, we get dominated because we're just small. Is that going to be the structure of the organization that's going to determine that? You alluded to the fact they look for smaller projects to do. So, so more than likely your [clears throat] larger project, your like larger EDA projects may come out of Bloomington, but your smaller Oakra projects will probably come out of your rural areas. And so, just different grant funds, different federal uh projects. We've talked about this, Gary, and Julie, you can kind of clarify, but um Marcy from Owen County and myself from Brown have been talking with the

Monroe County economic devel. And one thing that Owen and Brown uh get out of this is a majority in terms of the smaller rural county focus. And the majority majority has two counties, but has three counties. Each county is going to absolutely be equally represented with the number of people on the board equally per county. But then you look at Monroe and Marcy and I and and right with the Owen right with the Monroe County person like she gets it. She's hearing us say like look owner Brown we don't want to be dominated by Monroe. We don't want to have to [snorts]

you know follow that you know path. We don't want to be but then we looked at like wait we're actually majority. This is where it gets into the legal ease within the operating agreement, right, that has to be established that that currently does not exist. And so that needs to be negotiated out as you go forward with it. So it's just part of the process. So I would I would ask you to look up Indiana Code IC36-7-7-1. Okay. Wait a minute. What is it? IC 36 I Hang on a minute. IC 36. Yep. Yep. Yep. One-1. Okay. So that sets up regional planning commissions and how they how they how they function. Okay.

So um and it even you know gives some uh some revenue how how to revenue stream it. So like ours when we originally started 55 years ago is it was like 25 cents per person for the county. Uh so like places like Martin County that would be like $5,000 you know. So it's like not a huge amount. So, we've had to change those numbers over time. Um, but you know, that will tell you how to set up a board if you want to be an actual governmental entity, regional [clears throat] planning commission. Seven members per board for for each county, right? So, so for a threecount area, it's 21. Uh, for my [laughter] mine, I have 30 I have 35 that are elected officials and one governor appointment. And [snorts] so it's, you know, and they all have equal representation on my board. No single community dominates anything. Um, it really comes down to those those communities that are hungrier for projects get more attention.

Sure. Okay. One question. You mentioned okra grants, things of that nature. We're finding it difficult to get grants because we've got a poor LMI. Strangely enough, this county is remote and somewhat poor, but got a big chunk up in the northeast section that's got a lot of money. So would this affect that at all with the federal grants still look at LMI those issues? So LMI is what what it is but

but if you have if you if you have a a student administrator working for you for your projects then they can try and design a project that meets a constituency that has a low LMI and then you can go out and find that. [cough and clears throat] That's my concern is can we lower it sub county local? You can you can get it down to the block group if you need to. Okay. So So can I call you? Yeah. Okay. [laughter] I got a question. Are you born and raised in Davies County? No, I was born and raised in Green County and Linton. Okay. My family DNA is buried in Davies County.

Okay. All right. Anyone going to close it? One more question to we're establishing an economic development district district. Yes. Is that classified as a federal economic development district [clears throat] under this? I am, but I will say they don't put any real provisions on me other than what is in my grant. But that's always subject to future administrations, future I mean, it's Well, I guess that's my question. Are I don't feel it on I don't feel it at all on a daily basis any of those any of those provisions that would be coming down.

But we're always subject to it if we and I'm always subject to to remove them. I'm not I'm not against the point. And just want to clarify that we would be a federal economic development district. Yeah, they would designate you. Um, but the specifics are always in the grant agreement that you can decide as a district as a federal district, then that would subject us to, you know, say a future administration wants to tighten tighten it grip mandate other certain

other certain provisions. I mean, I guess that's always a possibility. Um, but you can always just then say we do not want to be recognized as a district anymore and go through that unwinding process. Yeah. And and I'm not arguing. I just want I want to know that. Yeah. No, I'm just trying to answer, you know, and I would say like right now we're EDA is shut down, right?

Um, and so the we've been asked to change some of our language at times from um from resiliency using the word resiliency to readiness like in some of the changes have don't always sit well but they're not big enough that it's a major issue. I mean we're still doing the same thing. It's about terminology a lot of times. That's been the most I've seen ever of any of the federal organizations telling us to do something one way or the other. Um, and I would I say like Julie says, you can unwind it if you need to. Um, really what you're trying to do is set up an organization that gives you access to more federal funds and more state funds as well and more local funds as well. Like how do you coordinate all of those things together for a good project?

Um, and you want access to all of those different funds. You don't want to have one one set left out because it it could be the very much the the gap filler that allows you to do a major project. So, yeah, I appreciate your time. I and your drive all the way up and over. Um, and you know, I know Julie, we you specifically put a lot of time into just getting us to this point where we we either move forward or we don't. And I know the CBC has has already approved that funding. It sounds like they do not need an additional appropriation from the council. And so um Julie Kevin Alt in the back is

uh who will work with Julie our auditor to provide that funding for you just to simply apply. This is just to apply to see if we are accepted and if we are accepted we decide if we're rejected we don't. Um and those details can flow out. Um strangely Bartholomew and Jackson are two of the other I think of like six counties that are not in a region. Bartholomew County doesn't need to be. And we we talked to them and as early on and said, [clears throat] "Hey, Bartholomew Jackson, would you like to join with Brown Owen?" And they said, "Nah, we're" and and if you think of regionally, they're kind of in their own world there kind of with manufacturing and

Bartholomew is their own region. This is their very own thing. First, they said, "No, not not

Barthomi County ranks number six in GDP per capita in the state of Indiana. And they've had a longstanding economic development [clears throat] program. It's $2,500. This was 1990 money. I don't know what it is today, but they've been, you know, and they've done a fabulous job." Uh, so the only thing I'm going to interject here is I would like to have some preliminary conversations with the CDC before we go cut any checks to do because what's let me ask you this just we submit the application to this, you know, US EDA, you know, what's the probability that we get rejected? [snorts]

I mean, I wouldn't think we'd be pursuing this if there was a high probability that we're not going to get approved. Well, most of most of the time you submit something to this is nice about EDA. You submit something to EDA, EDA is going to look at it and say this line here, you switch that to that. But there's a 95, let's say, is there a 95% probability that it will be accepted? EDA wants to have every county in the government in in all of the US covered under regional plan. We are their eyes and ears for federal projects feeding information back. That's right. We're feeding them information so they understand the needs within the the whole country as a whole.

Right. Okay. So the only thing I would like us to do just a little bit of due diligence Kevin if you're open to this is to have because I would like to be involved in this conversation. All right. Is there's I would like to have some conversations you know uh about it before we go cutting the checks. Kevin, I know there's there's been a lot of conversation already. Yesterday, we had even more conversation about a local economic development corporation, which is another really great and I understand those. Kevin, can you get with Jim and like in the next week you guys talk it through and Jim, if you got questions or concerns. Yeah. I I would like to have Yeah. Kevin and I to have a conversation. Yeah. Okay. Because there's some other Okay, sounds good. Yeah. Thank you.

You're welcome. [clears throat] No, thank you. One problem to think about is if we can get full statewide coverage, right, right, all regions in in the state of Indiana, then that would make a better mechanism a lot of times for the state to dole out money to to regions rather than them hold it and then right [clears throat] do smaller projects. That's been the goal of regional planning commissions is to try and get the state fully powered. Yeah. Because you're trying to work together collectively. Correct. Right. We need the state as a partner. Well, and more importantly, I think what you're trying to say is we are the ones that always lose because of this. If we are not in a region, we aren't what they call it's like Bloomington's this entitlement community.

They don't have to compete for checks. They just open the mail and a check is in there and then they decide what inherent we have to me. My big takeaway today is is it's it comes down to intellectual capital, you know, and this is an opportunity to where we could if if we manage it correctly, manage the relationship and build the trust, right, that we can leverage intellectual capital that we currently don't have access to today. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. You said the goal of EDA is to get the entire state. As we you said, Columbus has no interest in it because Columbus is pretty much Well, they didn't say no interest. They just said they don't want to be a part of our three county region.

I'm not fine. Well, they're not. But it's worth it's a conversation we're pursuing. I'm not going to terminate it. And what's this? And I'm glad you're talking to what's the CBC's what's what's in it for them. Well, yeah, it does. Um building things for them today we've ever been. They're having conversations about setting up a a a private economic development corporation. Okay. [laughter] There's always something right. And if you if they're going to move in that direction, then that need we need to gain clarity. What's that look like? How's the structure? How's it set up? Blah blah blah blah blah. There's a motive there.

Well, yeah. It's not I don't think there's ill intent quality of life or whatever their initial might be it flows the money can flow easier to those regions [snorts] including us which we're the ones always holding the donut you know like I think about transportation dollars that way is like where where that might be the first mechanisms to to go after and help with some whether it's just helping with community crossings grants applications that kind of stuff or those types of things but we need a hundred million to Start. [laughter] Okay. All right. Let's start there. That'll get us started with a goal of maybe 300 million over the next 10 years. Okay. We got other stuff to go to.

Thank you guys. Thank you. Look forward to your call. All right. I'll shoot you. Careful what you ask for, Greg. Can you go quick? How long you take? I'll make it quick. How long? 15 minutes. Oh boy. Kevin is going to talk take a little longer. Go ahead. I've already got it on a piece of paper so we can just go over really quickly. Um, and what this is is these are funds after we financial went through our accounts. We had a lot of things are years old and things that they would like merged together [snorts]

uh made into zero balances, close out funds. And this is a request for that. So um Julie and I went through line by line and fund by fund and I went through the state to find out what could be [cough] coming not [clears throat] be co-mingled and this is a result of it and I thought I would just come to a work session for any questions and then I'll come to your next meeting with the final numbers and lines um and the official paperwork after it's been advertised. Okay. Right out of the gate. Uh, okay. [snorts] There's only two funds in the health department budget. 1159 1160. No, there's not. Huh?

Multiple. There's multiple funds. So, these are actual funds, not line items. Funds, not line items. All right. Throughout the years. Throughout the years. All right. Throughout the years. Years. Okay. Like it's She's We're working off the sheet that Rita gave us. Yeah, I know. I got a copy of it. Okay. Yeah.

So, the first one is the health support clinic funds. Um, that fund number is 414. Um, it's a sister fund to 416. What it appears to be, and what I've saw and read through it, it says that it is refunds, reimbursement funds that were build out and then came in and were sent in this fund for $8,1959. I would like to transfer those funds to 4016 health support clinic that we reacted with um you as council and that's the one that we have used to make

for the roof and and that we're using for the um also to support the clinic. So I just want to move that money over to the other money uh the other name of the fund is the same thing and close out 40

14. Okay. And then 802 and 803 are both city readiness. And we have a city readiness now that we use which is 9118. So um whenever auditor Malry came in, she saw that all those old accounts [clears throat] were in there. So she established 9118 for the even years and 9119 for the odd years. And so what it was supposed to be was that they would feed in to the negative balances because these are reimbursement grants. We would pull down the money from the state. That grant fund would go in dormant as the money was coming in to pay for the year prior and then we would use the active year of the year that was in there to start pulling down again. But what had happened was there were a lot of other little funds that people had started and didn't finish and started and didn't finish. So I would like to combine those fund monies $62 and $3,1346 to fund 9118 and zero those other two out. And then we have $8106 public health coordinator uh federal grant um for $286. And now that fund number is 9119. Um and then the fund balance I would like to be transferred to 9119 and then close out and then 1159 uh department appropriation. And so [snorts] this would come out of the 1159 because somehow it was long before Julia and my and anybody else's probably sitting here. Um, it was an immun immunization fund and I kind of think Judy by looking at it what it was is

when they switched to the vax care somewhere along the line whenever Judy took over it didn't ever get I don't know it it just has a negative balance of $2,32641. I'd like to appropriate the money out of $159. Um, pay that off and zero out that account. Okay. And then um the last one is so 8236 has a negative balance of what you want to transfer. Yep. That I went it's not a line. It's just the whole account. The whole the fund is so we can just zero it out and get done with it. Sort of.

All right. So now $159 appropriation of $53,59962 cents to fund 9114 health base grant fund. So this again was one of the funds that got they didn't use anymore. So what happened was um they started using 1159 for the full appropriation of funds for the um actual uh public health coordinator position. And instead of having $25,000 out of 1159 and $25,000 out of 9118 where it was supposed to be, um they put it all in and on the tax role. So what it was supposed to be was then it was supposed to be transferred over and made whole. But you cannot co-mingle federal funds with that money. You can't take federal funds and put it in tax money. Now, you can take tax money and cheer up that negative balance and zero it out, but [snorts] you cannot take the money to reimburse it. So, what I'm I don't think that this will be the full amount, which you can read it down here in this paragraph because once I get done doing all the editing because the state of Indiana are sending me all of the deposits for the last 10 years and when they came in. So, and I have to trace them to the accounts. I think that it will be at least maybe $10,000 less. So, what I would need to do is zero out this 9114 because I also talked to Doug because they're still pulling that payroll out of that line or out of that fund. And so, Doug said for this year, we just need to do a correction of funds and get it out of the right fund

and then take that 9114 and zero it out and get rid of it so it can't be used anymore. So, that's where I am on that one. And then down here at the bottom, I'm going to ask at your next meeting, um, the fund we 1160, which is the HFI money, um, we had you guys carry over from last year to this year a total amount. Okay. What I would like to do is take $45,16162 of that from 24 to 26 to next year because I want to be able to pay for my um environmental specialists that we have hired u and all of the payroll benefits taxes for that position out of that 2024 money which has already been okay by the state. I also sent it to you when I sent in all my budgets that I was going to do that because you don't see that position in the 1160 or in 1159. So, I wanted to let you guys know that that position was still going to be there for your salary ordinance. Um, so I want to carry those funds over. So, that'll have to be advertised and then uh voted on in the next meeting. And then my last is just a little question. I did hear that $11,000 was going to be taken and borrowed out from our funds to share up the um budget for next year. I just need to someone to give me instructions on how I make that request happen and request the funds back for next year because it's what you guys say I need to do. So,

well, I don't know that [clears throat] it was 11,000. [cough] I know from what Jackie had said that the health fund was going to be short. It was not going to affect you until the like April. Okay. And it may not affect you at [snorts] all. Okay. Okay. Because your budget their first quarter will be covered. Okay. Okay. What happens is when you get your property tax, not you, when the county gets their property tax settlement in in June, that's when it affects the money that comes in to you. So, you would be just living off of your fees because all of your money

all of your money that comes in through fees would be supporting you and there may not be enough money to support your funds from like April, May, June. So, we may have to do what's called an interlocal loan from the general fund to get you through April, May, and June. [cough] And then when [snorts] that tax money settlements and all those come in in, you know, after they're all paid in May and the settlements done in June, then pay that back. Okay. So, you would happen in her world. It would, but I just

But keep an eye on it. make sure you know that your if your balances are getting low, just keep an eye on it. But it should all happen there and then we'll have to, you know, make sure that we're doing [snorts] what we need to do, too. But, um, you shouldn't have to really do anything. You shouldn't have to request it. It should happen auditor us. Okay. All right. Okay. But if you see us getting low, you can always come to us, ring our chimes, her she says more of a cash flow issue. Yeah, you may get b you may get tight on cash until June and if you run short, let us know. Yeah, we'll have to do an interlocal loan. We'll see that on our Yeah, on our reports. Do you need anything else from us? That's it.

That was great. [cough] If you have any questions, shoot me an email. Um I will advertise this. I we'll get with Susan and I don't have any questions. I was there. Okay. All right. Good. And then we'll I'll present at your next meeting. One one quick question that could be answered a lot faster than typing under emails. Okay. Uh the second the last paragraph fund balance 1160 45601 162 cover a short call a shortfall. Is that a recurring shortfall for your Okay. So we went from $353,000 in HFI to 90.

Okay. So I had to try to figure out how to pay payroll. So they knowing that this had happened, state of Indiana's been putting us through different trainings and how to how to fund these funds, things that we have. And so one of their suggestions were if you had money from 24, you should try to see if you can get council's approval to take that 24 and carry it over to 26 to pay for that payroll, which was in a capital fund money, and they said it was fine. It can come out of there and just go over into that. So that's being clean up.

That's it. Yep. And so it's just going to come out of 24. It's a non-reverting fund. So I was a little bit confused on why do we have to keep going back to council because it's just going to move over anyway. And they said because it's where it is in the lines and you got to move it back to the lines. So that's being a payroll. So the short N Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Uh how about we take the monopole issue and solve that in five minutes? Uh, Mark, would you like to come up? Yeah. Get you back to the parks. How much time do you think you need? 45 seconds. Okay, perfect.

45 seconds. [laughter] Seconds. Great. Yes. Burning and noting.

Yes. the fund was set up initially supposed to be set up as a nonline. So, um I think at the last council meeting we talked about in order to do this appropriately, there would have to be an ordinance established the commissioners to have this set up to where [clears throat] we would receive the funding into [snorts] this fund. And then also there would need to be a resolution passed by council to transfer the 8,000 that's currently in that general fund line uh into the newly established non-revering fund. And then finally we talked about um once all of those were agreed upon

then there was the question on reallocating the $3,33.34 that had gone back had gone into the general fund into the general fund the last couple years. So, if I'm hearing you right, we need a fund of some kind to be established to put the money in. However, Susan wants us to do that or maybe the commissioner do it. And two, we need a transfer of funds from general into that.

Yeah, let's let's back up. Okay. What what I just handed all of you is an actual email that I received from Lori Rogers, right, [clears throat] from the state board of accounts. And what this email speaks to specifically is what I said at the last month's regular meeting that first and foremost the auditor needs to set up a 4,000 series fund. Jackie Clemens interveneed and I because I made the comment that the commissioners need to establish an ordinance. All right. And in this email from Lorie Rogers, that's exactly what she says. Now,

what's exactly what she says? Well, read if you I can read the email if you want. I can read the email if you want. Just [clears throat] what we're dealing with. Here's the documentation. This is from Lorie Rogers. This is not Jim Camp. It is the state board of accounts. Okay. All right. So basically, you create a a 4,000 series fund is what they refer to as a home rule fund. So this money that's sitting in the general account, we need to simply do an appropriation out of the general account over into this new fund that we established. A transfer probably No, it's it' be an appropriation. A new appropriation. Appropriation. Okay. Just so that our language is accurate. New appropriation.

When I hear transfer, that's from line item to line item to line item. when an appropriation is what you're taking money out of a revenue source and dumping it in something else. So nodding her head. Well, Teresa has I think it was you Teresa that told me that you made the claim. Did you find an ordinance on this subject matter? Yes. So you the commissioners have already passed an ordinance? Yes. Back when this all took place. Okay. Okay. And it's been recorded in the recorder's office. Yes. I didn't realize. So, all we have to do is very simple is Julie needs to set up a 4,000 series fund. Correct. Get Julie needs to get a copy of that ordinance. Yeah.

That ordinance needs to bolt onto that fund because I'm assuming the ordinance speaks specifically to what parks and wreck can do with this money. Yes, it does. It actually clarifies and justifies everything he said. Okay, perfect. Okay. And then we need to pass an ordinance. No pass or how do we get it done? It's already passed. You don't have the to do another ordinance. Yeah, it's already So the ordinance has already been done. So all you got to do is set up the Yeah, but we got to do the appropriation. So but the appropriation has to be advertised. So it' be the December meeting before we can get him in. Yeah. Right. But we just need to do the appropriation for the amount and that's something that you got to draft, right?

And then I could transfer the money that's in the other account. There's our totally sir. All right. So, Julie, you're going to advertise an appropriation. Okay. And then in December, we'll we'll we'll pass it. It's over with. And [snorts] I'm sending him the form request. So, so there you go. Excellent. Thank you. That's it. Done. [laughter] Turns out you're right. After all, we need to drag you through all [clears throat] these meetings, but you know, let's just listen to Julie and none of this would happen. Go ahead. Go ahead. Are we sure we don't want to argue about this for a little bit?

We need to revisit this [laughter] [clears throat and snorts] again. Uh 30,3334. Oh, it's less than And I'm assuming the auditor's office 3334. Yeah. But can the auditor's office reconcile and make sure that number is accurate? Yes. All right. While we're on funds, Kevin, you already mentioned about setting up a uh music center pilot or a music center excess revenue fund. I think we've talked about this before, but just

so as as you receive excess revenue from [clears throat] music center as you do with other funds, maybe the remote fund, things like that. It would be nice if the county had a fund that that went to so that you as a council and as the county commissioners know that you have X dollars in this fund to use for a project. So it doesn't just get dumped into the general fund and you don't know [clears throat] where it's at. I mean, yes, you know what it is, but you don't know where it's at or what it's been spent on. you know, I think it's it's something that you need to use it as a pro for a project, whatever that is, you know, and I would do the same thing like to see you do the same thing with the pilot, you know, and I know that there's a discussion item here, but um, you know, I think the pilot could go into that same fund. I just think any of those music center funds should go into a fund that you as a council and the commissioners know what it's for, what it's what's there, how much it is. Well, where's it? Is it currently going into the general? Is that what you're

saying? It goes [cough] That's a problem because I don't know it's a problem, but you as a council and the commissioners don't really know how much it is or that you've just spent. I mean, it's just spent on your daily operations, and I would like for you to see that it's used for something, you know, and I don't know what that is, Scott. So, it's more So, the problem is more that you want to know what we're spending on. I don't it's okay can I intervene here on this okay first of all I support I support first of all can I ask the question approximately estimated I mean how much money are we talking about this year what we know it to be currently on an annualized basis

well I think you know it's 65,000 is what your pilot's going to be this year it's been 54 55,000 the last two or three years well but excess And then your excess revenue is going to be in the area of 65 to so 120 grand somewhere around that neighborhood. All right. Combined, right? Because this issue that he's raising and I've I've said this in a pack meeting earlier. All right. That it's the same issue with the the parks and wreck

that what we do is we know we're going to have this revenue coming in, right? We create a 4,000 series fund. We develop an ordinance that speaks specifically on how that money what that money is to be spent on. So if we make a decision that that is there to subsidize public safety, then we put it in writing and that way you clear it up. The problem now is you got 120 grand rolling in and you don't even know how much you got coming in. Number one. So I completely support that. It's what it's the correct way to set it up so that we alleviate any sort of confusion down the road.

Yeah. I mean, I've been to council meet heard you say, "Well, we can take that [cough] fun and transfer it over." And I think it just be and you know how much is in that fund. I just think it'd be nice to know what it is and that you can use it for whatever you want to use it for. Well, I don't care. [snorts] You know, I'm not I'm not picking nickels and dimes. I just think you ought to know that you've got 120 150 or you've saved it up over three years and you got $450,000 in there to use for something. I agree. We buy police. The pilot pilot is like it's like property taxes. And so do we want that also? We don't want it to go where it would normally go. We want it to go. Well, first of all, we don't have to make a decision right now, right? I'm just we're talking

you don't have to merge those in there. I mean, but it's not that much money, right? Right. And I take to me the approach would more, you know, be more so because you keep in mind the original conversation to go from five to eight was to raise that in order to be able to offset some of the cost for public safety. Right. Correct. All right. That was the original purpose. That was the original conversation. Right. So, this is revenue that we've got coming in. Right. And that revenue we we ought to make a decision. Uh, you know, I don't know how many police cars we have to buy every year, but it's fairly 12 fun. I'll be telling you that early. We Yeah, it's fairly We spend a lot of money every year having replace a year maybe.

Yeah. I mean, we we spend quite a bit of money every year replacing police cars, right? So, you know, this is not a lot of money. It's not. And you know, and if we want to, I mean, if it's going anywhere, public safety would be my guess. If we want to say that's all we can spend it on, right, which is what we would do. Here's the problem to your question. Here's the problem it solves. We got the general fund right now. All the all the excess money from the from the music center. This just dumping into the into the general fund. We don't have a name on it. We don't have a dump on it. What this does is it sets up a fund so we can see we have a name. Music Brown County Music Center excess revenue, right?

Pilots. That way we have an account. We can track this is how much has come from that. And here's the account. Yeah. Keep in mind if Keep in mind keep in mind keep in mind. No, it's it's attractive. You do, but you don't. It doesn't really matter because the reality is is if you use 120 grand from this bucket to buy some police cars every year, that's going to decrease the demand on the general fund. Yeah. So it all washes out. It might not go the general fund. It might be the rainy day fund. Whatever. That would be a good idea. Kevin, right now we can't put any money in the rain because any money because we were not understanding the facts. It's not going into the general. No, it's been going into the rainy day fund. Okay. The problem I see is you as the council

but the rainy day fund hasn't grown at all. She's been time she gets that check, she puts that money in there, which is a great place to put it. I can't do that. I like that. I haven't done it since about the excess revenue, but Okay. Well, that's a separate subject for a different time. So, so anyway, yeah, that so maybe that's the problem we're trying to solve for is we choose where it goes, right? As council, whether it's the general, whether it's rainy day, whether it's public safety,

let's choose where we want it to go. And I I pick really any three of those. I mean, general's going to public safety. I mean, that's where our growth is in terms of expenses. I mean, but also keep in mind in the general fund, the miscellaneous revenue, which is what this is part of, all right? you know that that is a certain percentage of the overall re you know that 10 million a year in in revenue because the general fund is made up primarily of income tax all right primarily and then property tax and then you have the annual miscellaneous going into the rainy day fund does that but right now different

well but hang on a minute right now if I were if we would have gone in for 2026 and yanked a million out of the general fund transferred into the day [clears throat] fund you want to talk about red ink we'd have had major red ink so we're not even in a position right now to where we can even appropriate any money out of the general fund into the radiator because we can't afford it. Okay? Because first things first, we're trying to prop up the 4700 account to get the 4700 account in the black and try to get some, you know, reserves built up in that. So, it's it's anyway, good idea. Yeah. What did we decide? So, we're going to make a non-reverting fund in the 4,000 so that we can put that money in there.

Well, let's decide. Yeah, let's not do that until we get the ordinance drafted of how what we're going to do. And maybe you don't. I'm just saying this. No, I think nice for you to know what you receive and where it's going. The money needs to be seated. You start looking through these reports at the end of the year or when you get to budget time and it's like, oh, we don't know what that is, right? It'd be nice for me to know where it specifically is coming from. It's a good way to say, hey, this is what came from the music center and hypothetically that revenue should grow spent it on. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, we'll do that. We don't need to discuss it. No, we don't. No. Thank you. Susan, is that a council ordinance or is that a commissioner ordinance?

A non-reverting fund typically is set up by council. Okay. So, there we go. Can you set that up for us? I mean, now wait a second. Are we deciding do a non-reverting fund? I mean, first of all, let's not make any decisions right now at all. Okay. I'm just not sure that kind of binds our hand. The only decision we need to make the only decision I think that we need to make today is that we're going to agree to just simply move forward in this direction. Yes. And we'll hammer out just determining set up a 4,000 series fund. Set up the ordinance. All right. So, we're not doing it. We're going that way. We're just making a decision. We need to move in that direction. put it on reverting that it will keep in that position.

All right. Next item on our agenda, I want to see if we can take you available to take a 10-minute break, Kevin, or you got to run. Do we need a break? Do 10 minutes. You want a break? Take a break because what's

finished their cigarette? Hurry up. No, it's a discussion. A committee discussion. Yeah. We don't have forever. We're not going outside. [laughter] I'm sorry. What? Since when? Months and months and months ago. Really? So that's your problem? Is that my problem? [laughter] That's what happened. What? What are you trying to say? Start smoking it. No, don't. No, I'm kidding. All right, Joel, you've been awfully talkative today. Um, he talks to me. [laughter] We could solve all of our problems real quick.

So, we're just bleeding money. All we have to do is fire this council, keep the damn money here, okay, and spend it other ways. We we we we spend so much money trying to have these really brilliant people come in and tell us how not to spend the money. I think I've heard you echo that before. We we pay pay big bucks to have people come in and tell us how not to spend big bucks. How not to spend big bucks. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Well, it's just a oversimplification of a problem, but let's just let it flow. Let's turn it loose. No, no. Uh,

yeah. Well, I think my friend So,

so I find ways where they can cost this year. [snorts] Okay. We have not request and use it to release because 61,000 started and eliminate some of that. So% increase this year when I was talking% Where did you go?

for 800,00 I love

Now it's letting me if I'm on the network. Why is it not letting me pull up my shouldest just writing down here. It's a solution to a problem. million projection.

Yeah.

So that's the case. going to be transferred out of

nobody [laughter] I'm not saying it's going to be a solution every year right we can transfer it [clears throat] after it's I'm talking the nonrestricted so we won't be able to do that every year because we've accumulated that much in there when it comes [clears throat] to reason.

I pulled everything I could find on it. I talked to he told me that we were required by that money and which I already knew that. So he I don't like he's just not I don't know if he wasn't engaged in my questions. I don't know what the problem was

when I called him repeatedly. I have an email. This is the request to tell them address. [laughter]

You tell me please. It's not an ongoing solution, but it's a solution. Is that money? We're set to get money all the way out and it decreases every year. This is just accumulation that does not

Okay. There's like there's $79,000 in there right now that I want to suggest we use for Melissa's money to help relieve Brad because she miraculous things. That's in the red. It should be able to relieve that to

you probably back to Florida, [clears throat] aren't you? I haven't been to Florida since March. We're going to It just seems like you have. No. No. We'll We'll go after Christmas. Yeah. [laughter] Okay. Next item. I know he didn't. I pulled him. He thought he did. Outside. Yeah. Let's give Darren a second. Gary. Well, we made some highle decisions out there. [laughter] We can't decide anything legally today. I copied them straight out. Really? You want me to? I think you're a good starting point,

Aaron. You don't have to take care of the folk after we can start there'll pick it up. Can I pick up just real quick on the last thing we Sure. did just And Jim, you did. We were just discussing. We were having a cigarette break back there. You were outside and we were still working. Uh [laughter] there's the pilot that property taxes paid by the music center. property tax in lie of or in le of property tax. Property taxes, right? Okay. It's it's like everyone else pays property tax. Everyone but the state. I know. I know. Okay. Everybody but the state. We have that we have excess

pays property taxes, right? Those property taxes go towards essential county services, roads, public safety. That goes into the general fund, right? Which are roads. There's no road money. That's where property taxes go. Okay. Property taxes don't pay for roads. whatever. Okay. Sorry. Property taxes go to essential public services. It goes into the general fund which are essential public services. That's basically

um the excess revenue [sighs] can be thought of as more of a um kind of a a a revenue that is coming from an outside source that can accumulate over time to become something more significant. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, you know, I think we should take the property tax fund revenues off of the music center that should go towards like everyone else's property taxes go to, essential public services. Put it where essential public services, property taxes usually go. on the excess revenue side, treat that as a essentially a cumulative capital revenue fund or put it towards economic development corporation contribution so that we can make that fund more significant over time, leverage those dollars like Greg was saying, $200 for every dollar you put in. Um, I think we should split those and and and use them in that way. But it sounds like we I mean this thing came out of nowhere. I don't know why it's even on our agenda. But we need to talk more about it, understand what we're doing here because if if we take pilot property taxes out of our general fund, out of our out of our revenues, which are already short, okay, we're basically taking it Well, pick where you want to take it out of. You want to take it out of sheriff pay? You want to take it out of health department? you know, we're we're kind of subtracting from something we already can't fund. And so I just hesitate to take property taxes that everyone pays that are being generated by a tourism business out of the property tax pool. It it just seems like we're creating another state park kind of arrangement, which is

we're actually making this too complicated. I think so, too. It's all revenue from the music center. That's all we need to do is part of it property taxes and Julie Julie right now historically property tax but this goes to another discussion we're going to have to have me as one of the board members of the music senator discussion we need to have this right I mean it's probably going to during your term you receive this money from the maple leaf management the money comes in I don't know if they pay you by check or UAC it is huh It gives us a check. Okay. Where do you allocate that money?

We've allocated it before into the rainy day fund. Okay. But then you made a comment earlier that somebody told you to stop doing that. Yes. Okay. So, so to the general fund. So right now currently as we what's true today and true for 2026 if nothing changes this little bit of money which is [clears throat] not very much you know as a percentage of $24 million it's an itty bitty dollar amount of money. Okay it's pocket change.

It's pocket change. All right. And it's been going into the general fund. the general fund and that would be in miscellaneous revenue because the general fund is comprised of miscellaneous revenue which is what this money is that's coming in and the bulk of the general fund is income tax and then because you can remember the school corporation basically takes 60% of the income tax. All right. And the other you got income tax, miscellaneous revenue, and then you got property tax. Of that $10 million, that $10 million funds 25 departments. Your department's funded out of it. Commissioners take a big chunk. Law enforcement that the the jail sheriff deputies, which are basically bulk of the general fund, is labor cost.

Okay? Okay, you got labor cost and you got employee benefits is what that's paying for.

So the reality is is that if you simply you can leave it like it is. All right. I am in agreement with because agreement with Kevin. If you pull the 120 grand and you no longer deposit that into the general fund rather than you put it into a separate fund and then that separate fund is used to buy police cars. I'm using that as an example. Scott, what you've just done, it doesn't really matter whether you're buying police cars over here out of this $120,000 a year fund or you're paying for police cars out of the general fund. You're paying for the same expense.

What's the point? It's more of just a statement we're trying to make. I think I I think the value of the value the the intrinsic value of what Kevin's proposal is at least Maple Leaf they understand specifically how this money is being spent right now. It goes into the general fund and it gets lost. I don't think we as a Maple Leaf care. Okay. Yeah. So that's not the problem. I think you as a council should care. Well, I do care, but I care about the big picture. I care about the credit rating. I care about the cost of county government. I care about what our our trying to stabilize our taxes. So our taxes I mean if you want to go and go where it's at that's fine know what it is.

The easiest thing the path of least resistance because I don't think it really matters at the end of the day is you just it's more over the excess revenue not the pilot. Right. Right. Right. But to try to segregate this then that creates more work in your office to try to track this stuff because it's easy for us to sit here and talk about it but it's a completely different subject. Well, they always will come in two separate checks. They're always separate. Yeah. Yeah. So, so yeah. So, I mean, what we've been doing is just stick it in the general fund and at different times

and and it's all going into the same bucket, it's all miscellaneous revenue, you know, and if there comes a point to where we've got our cash reserves begin to grow, then we can go in and pull some money out of that and stick it into the rainy day fund. Because obviously for me personally, the goal would be to build the grainy day fund to the point to where we don't have to use the county credit card when it comes to capital improvements visav a $4 million general obligation bond. Okay. We should not be in a position where we have to borrow money to take care of capital improvements. That's insane. Primarily what this is is an exercise in tightening up on internal controls. It's an internal control. It's policy.

This is what we need. Julie and we've got to pay it. I mean, to me personally, I don't have any control over the revenue. [snorts] None. But I do have control as a county council member over expenses. And this is an expense problem. We don't we do not have a revenue problem. And I can prove that. That's not just some kind of hyperbole. All right. We have It's an expense issue. So, and so, you know, that's where we are. So, you're saying leave it as it is. Yeah. I I think right for now we can you know for now just leave it like it is anymore because it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. What matters for it matters so you know how much you've gotten from the music.

Let me give you an example. I pay out well I won't say how much I pay out. I pay out a lot in [snorts] federal and state local taxes. Okay. As far as I'm concerned all of my money I pay to the federal government goes to the highway system. I think it's a great idea. [laughter] I think it's a great idea to put it in one area so that we can Yeah, it's a great idea, but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't it doesn't really matter. I know, but I [clears throat] also think it's a great idea so that we can track it and show where Why is that a problem? It is tracking. Well, no, it's not. But that's up to us paying attention. We know where it comes from and where it goes. Well, I know, but this would make an account line to receive that money in the general fund.

Whatever. Let's move on. What's the next thing on the agenda? Let's Let's Let's not We don't need to Hey, can we just move on? Let's not get in the We're in the We're in the weeds here. Yes. Get out of the exact lost our funds, right? So, let's just move forward. What's next on the agenda? We'll put a line in there, right, Julie? Yeah. Whatever. [clears throat] Yes. [laughter] And how do you turn that into a million? That's my question. Okay. Well, that would be that would be the approach that I would suggest is you invest over time. You let it accumulate. Not the property tax. You let it. We got bigger fish to fry.

All right. The next item is is they're talking about a 50/50 instead of a 2575 split. Who's talking about that? Whose agenda item is this? This Gary's agenda item because he was at the [cough] center board meeting that came up, right? and it was considered as though let's all discuss it before we implement something. Right.

Well, Ron brought it up at the meeting. They entertained it and we figured let's put it through the system before something goes formal on it. Ron brought it up at our last music center meeting to take the excess revenue from a 2575 split to a 50/50 split. And in that conversation, he also I think he was looking for a compromise trying to get the 50/50 in and said we could even do away with the pilot. That's where some discussion came in and got [clears throat] his motion got a second. Actually, I second it, but it got didn't pass only because they wanted to table it to the next to our next meeting. It will pass at a 50/50 split. I think the rest of the board also doesn't want to do away with the pilot either because it's too separate. Ron was just looking for and so it came up and Gary was there and

you know I don't know that and Darren can speak too but I don't think the the consensus of the board was don't do away with the pilot but let's go to a 50-50 split. How much money are we talking about? Well the pilot $65,000 this year. I'm not talking about pilot. We're talking about excess revenue. This revenue is going to split it somewhere between 150 and $180,000. So you're 350 grand a year in excess rather than a second. That's what it's going to split at. So you're going to get 90,000 of that. So So the total so projected total if we forecast excess revenue out of the music center for 2026, how much money are we talking about? Or do 2025 because that's the real number

or 2025. What was the excess? It'll be about somewhere between 75 and 90,000 depends on how that's apart from the pilot. That's apart from the pilot. So we're only hang out 50. That's what the county's portion would be. Okay. I'm not that's my was not my question. My question before the split is what's the total dollar amount? Between 150 and 180,000. So it's peanuts. It's just a little bit of money. [clears throat] That went down though, right? That's down. That's Well, it always is. And that and that's why I don't No, last year it was 280, wasn't it? Total. No, last year it was it was under it was under that under that. It was 280 the [clears throat] year before. Two years ago. 267 two years ago.

So we're down trending. So So we're not downtrending. There are capital expenses at the music center that have needed attention. capital capital expenses that invest in the profitability of music center.

So even if it were 200 grand, right? 200 grand that that would mean, you know, right now the county would be getting at 25% 50k and the foundation be getting 150k, right? And if you go to 5050, then you're talking 100 grand to the county, 100 grand to the foundation. Correct. Okay. The inkeepers tax revenue is there to promote

development. A county that imposes pursued section shall create based on the state. Let me see that opposes a sectionist shall create whose purpose is to promote the development and growth of convention and visitation in the county statute. So the statute reads and the CDC is has complete discretionary control over that. Right.

Okay. Before we even I don't know why we're even bringing this up because I don't think it needs to be addressed right now because what I am going to want to address is that the council voted unanimously several months ago and we encouraged and recommended that the CVC create a governing document

and they're working on that. Okay, because that needs that first things first, that governing document needs to be done. All right. Number two, I'm going to hand these out. I'm going to give this to you, Kevin. Um because another thing somebody stuck on the agenda here was something to do with this inkeepers tax that the CBC and the the the parks and wreck because currently in the 2026 budget I believe you guys put the line items for parks and wreck. Say it's on the agenda. I saw it somewhere. It's not on here. This is all this whole conversation. It's not on the agenda.

Well, But somebody put it on there. Didn't you put it on there? Look at it. I don't know. Somebody had it on there. Something to do with the freaking the the budget and the CBC. Oh, I know. Well, never mind. Yeah, I got an email from somebody. Never mind. Maybe bringing something up that I shouldn't have brought up. Um, but what I just handed you, what I [laughter] what I just handed you

is before we even begin to address these, you know, this issue, this this this thing that's on the agenda, we need to back up and we need to get the work completed to create this governing document, right? and what factors are going to be used by the CBC board when it comes to issuing grants every year because you all got 2 million bucks coming in or will have once everything gets into the pipeline basically on an annual basis provided our occupancy rate stays where it has and has been for the last three years. So, what I did is I drafted this document and I had a 90-minute conversation with Eric Cook and there's and what we need to do because it and and what happened was is we I submitted these questions and and I'm not want to have you guys can read through this on your own. Um we have got to create this document and we have to define the state statute what I read off earlier whose purpose is to promote the development growth and convention visitation of the county that that the first of all Eric Cook in this 90-minute conversation told me that the challenge the general assembly has is that we have 92 counties that all enjoy their autonomy. So when they go to work on passing legislation, they typically will write it in a very ambiguous way. And then once they write the legislation, it's kind of up to the county or the municipality, the political subdivision to go in and do an interpretation of the statute. So they can take that a little step further and define it in the

context of the [clears throat] county. So when we look at the state statute for inkeepers tax, you know, we should define, you know, how do we define whose purpose is to promote the development, growth of convention and visitation in the county. Number one. Number two, the problem with the state board of accounts because I had a conversation with the state board of accounts and I asked them specifically, can I go in and take and use inkeepers tax and pay $550,000 a year for emergency services? And she goes, "No." I said, "Okay, that's fine. Can you submit something to me in writing?" She goes, "No, because we don't have anything." So, the problem with this statute isn't the statute. It's really with the state board of accounts. Because the thing I find interesting after conversation with Eric Cook and having a conversation with the state board of accounts is they don't have any prohibited transactions. You know, the state board of accounts should have a document that they should adopt and approve that speaks specifically for all 92 counties what is prohibited, what transactions are prohibited. And you know what? They don't have that in writing. So, I have a very difficult time when you're talking to two or three employees within the state board of accounts and they make a subjective anecdotal statement, you know, and I'm I'm supposed to take that as gospel. No, I don't think so. So, what I want to see us do is let's clean this up. And the reason I really want to see you all get this document in place because if you got two million bucks coming in a year and you told me testified back when Andy Rogers started this whole thing that was 34 grand, you had no money. And so over the last 45 years, this thing has just grown exponentially. To me, when I look at the

CBC today, I think of the CBC as almost like the Brown County Foundation because going out to cover the CBB. Now, what I don't know is, you know, of that million dollar a year budget for the CBB, what percentage of that money is used for marketing by ad space to promote the county to get people in to maintain our occupancy rate? Right? Because if we don't maintain our occupancy rate, then these the local shops in Nashville aren't going to have the traffic they need, right? The restaurants aren't going to have anybody in there. So, it's it's the occupancy rate that's critical. That was the whole premise for developing and creating the music center. All right? And the music center was to replace the place that burned down. So, that's the history. But going forward with $2 million worth of revenue coming in, you know, how do we allocate that revenue? And furthermore, how do the if we don't have a governing document using the criteria andor factors that the Brown County Community Foundation uses when they have to make decisions to issue grants. That document needs to be in place number one to clear up this debate of what we can spend money on and what we can't spend money on. That has got to be resolved. All right? And if we got to go in and file suit against the state board of accounts, then so be it. All right? But we need to clearly define how that revenue is going to be allocated each and every year. Number two, we need to do that. Why? To protect the five board members. And number three, that needs to be implemented because what I object to is having the council andor the commissioners making appointments to the CDC based on political biases. So, I want money spent on X. These two people aren't going to give me what I want. So, I'm going to replace them. And if what we're doing is constantly replacing CBC board members because

you've got your own personal hidden agenda and you're going to go in and try to replace board members, you can't develop the continuity you need and the intellectual capital that you need in order to be able to manage that $2 million worth of dispersements on an annualized basis. So this document is critical to the success of this county. And then furthermore, lastly, and I'll finish with this, how many nonforprofits do we have in the county? 101 or 104.

Okay. So, you know, thank God the county government doesn't have to fund the nonforprofits, right? So, we have we're blessed to have this revenue source coming in both from the foundation and from the CBC [cough] to help support the nonprofit work which is instrumental to the quality of life within our community. Is it not? Well, and that's what's been good about the quality of life board that's group that's been working on this is we have it's it's been a great work group and looking at all that and that's you know they're kind of a sounding board for the CDC too and it's all the you know the grants will right

kind of work through that group and so it's right and you know we're look and with people John Elliot from the from the community foundation you know we could potentially see somebody else from the foundation on they're, you know, weighing in as to, hey, we can do this, but maybe you could do this. And it's so it's so we're not overlapping, right?

And see, to me, this this funding source for the nonforprofit community and then plus all the volunteers because you're talking about a lot of people that volunteer their time and energy and they don't get to paid a dime to do that. All right? So they're doing it out of the goodwill of their heart because the one thing we as a county lack is it would be nice. Bartholomew County would not be where it is today if it wasn't for the Miller family. It would not be where it is today if it wasn't for Dick Johnson. It wouldn't be you know Tony Morvak who owned Applied Laboratories. He gave a million dollars downtown to renovate the ice cream place. I can't think of the name of it. Ericas Zakaros. Yeah. So, Bartholomew County has had a lot of private equity with residents that have an attachment to the county who have given an enormous amount of money. We were blessed just recently I read that the individual that's the retired CEO of Lilies, I think he cut a check for 250 grand to the historical society. So, we don't have, you know, Joe, you know, Mr. big that's worth, you know, $10 billion to come into the county and say, "We're going to give you this, we're going to give you this." But in place of that, what we do have is we do have the inkeepers tax. We now have the music center, right? And it's working. It's working really well. And so, let's not tinker with it. But how can we improve? And the first things first is let's get that governing document done. Okay? And can we get, you know, because you guys need to draft that that needs to come before the council and [clears throat] clearly the council and the CDC board, we need to agree on [snorts] that document. And then as we go forward, then when you guys make decisions on how you're going to allocate those resources and then when you turn in your form ones, we can go and say, "Okay, I see how they did that because here's the,

you know, here's the here's the scoring system that's used, right?" And it keeps everybody honest. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Jim. Back to the 50/50 split. Any problem if it goes to that? No, I don't want to leave it. What? Leave it like it is. I think he just it was just a because he just brought for a discussion. Let's There's no reason. You get your act together and then we talk about it later. It's not even a council decision on the understand. That's a that's a music center.

It's part of the agreement and the council signed off on the agreement if I remember correctly. But I believe in that agreement the music center has the right to can may change yes the split and that doesn't that doesn't open the the agreement for any amendments. So it's just it has to be this but it may change. Right. Right. Yeah. So we're looking at you know so it's not our decision. They don't even have to ask you permission if they want to give you 50. The issue was is trading off pilot for 50/50. That's off the table. Yeah, that's nothing [cough] to do with pilot. That's something that we center have agreed to do.

There's nothing in writing. Five years from now, if you got a million coming in, okay, let's have a conversation. I hope it is. I hope it is, too. Here's my issue. I am a voting member on the M on the the maple management board. So, as the council representative to that board, I would like to get the opinion of council. Leave it as it is. is mine. Well, that's yours. So, there you go. That's the only one I've heard. Well, speak up or I think that's something you have to bring up. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, are you asking the council think we need more money? [laughter] I'm just asking his opinion [clears throat] because I've got my opinion on it. He wants to represent us. That's what he wants to do.

I mean, what's your opinion? What did you have something? I I just want to I want to clarify what I think the question is because I think I'm confused at what the question is and maybe everybody else is too. I thought he was coming Kevin came to talk about splitting from instead of 7525 where the county only gets 25% of the excess profits to splitting 50/50 not talking about the pilot actually correct separate from the pilot. I I actually did put this as an agenda item. Gary did exactly the pilot is out. It's separate. We get the pilot. This separate issue. Right.

But part of the discussion of 50 [cough and clears throat] was instead of 2575 go 50/50 and eliminate the pilot and eliminate the pilot. Well, that was a discussion that Ron Ron Sanders brought up. I bet you did. Correct. So, is that the question you want to get [snorts] answered from the other council members? Go to 50. Well, Kevin, if we did that, if we did that, isn't that less money for the county than more? Like, why would we do that? I know what your opinion is. So, you're asking we want less. I understand the question. I don't understand the question. Well, I'm sorry. All right. So, so, so Kevin, as I understand it, Ron was looking at a comp he was offering a compromise in order to get the 5050.

Yes. Which you don't want to do. If we could do 50/50 and give up the pilot. So Kevin would be in favor of if I'm reading it would be less for the less but he's you know he's talking I understand I I mean he was the conversation give us the pilot no it's a dead that's why we tabled it to act on our next at our next meeting it's a dead issue you guys are willing to give us the pilot and 50/50 that's it that's what I'm seeing as the consensus of the board you decide 50/50 if it stays 2575 Right. We're accepting of that. Yeah. So, let's keep going. Next item. I mean, you're asking us for input. My my opinion was leave it the way it is. Thank you.

Let's not mess with it because we we are okay. Let me put some numbers to it. So, he's saying leave the pilot and leave it 257 there. That was my that's my opinion as as a board member. Right now, the excess revenue for the year will say it's 160,000. So we put 75 that the um community foundation gets 120,000 county gets 40,000. Now there's the pilot of 65,000. So our 40,000 plus the 65,000 gives us 105,000. So we're basically 50/50 almost right now pretty much. Yeah. If we do a 50/50, the 160 was 80 to the community foundation, 80 to us plus the 60 plus 65

plus 65, which gives us 145. Now, [cough and clears throat] if we do the 50/50 split, eliminate the pilot, then the pilot becomes excess revenue, rolls back into [clears throat] the music center funds. So instead of 160,000 excess revenue, we have 225,000 excess revenue. We do a 50/50 split on that. That's 112,5 or yeah 112,500 versus 105. It's pretty much a wash. We're going through a big exercise really for nothing. So yes,

right now my my view on the pilot is it gives us every year a consistent a consistent block of money from the gamekeepers or from the music center that goes into our fund and we can say, "Okay, we can count on this every year." If we go to a 50/50 without the pilots, then it's subject to just strictly excess revenue. If music center has a big issue that comes up, they got to replace the roof, then all that excess revenue goes away. And there is no excess revenue. Do we still get our pilot? If we keep the pilot, that's why that's why. So if the excess revenue, if the excess revenue goes to zero, we still get 65. We still get our 65. Why would you want to change that?

Exact. That's my point. And furthermore, last week the dollar amount you're talking about is peanuts. It's really It's who cares? Pretty much insignificant. Are you using your million dollar capital fund to make the improvements that you talked about this year? Capital improve. Yes. But at the end at the end of the year that has to be replenished back to the million dollars before there's any excess revenue. Correct. I'm just because you talked about what if we all of a sudden put on a roof. You have a capital fund, right? But that has to be replenished at the end of the year before excess revenue. So that eliminates excess revenue

understands that that capital isn't necessarily coming out of your operating. You have that capital transfer money from that account to our check writing account, write that check at the end of the year, then we move that money back before any excess revenue. So So it does affect us. Yeah. And you know what? Rather than playing games with this puny amount of money, the reality of it is is our focus ought to be on the financial statements with the CVB, it ought to be on the financial statements of the Maple Leaf Management because do we as a council have a right to be able to pull the financial statements and look at the financial statements of Maple Leaf Management? It's all public if you need to. Okay. I'm just

We don't hide anything. It's all right. Yeah.

Okay. So we need a we as a council have direct oversight of the CBC. We as a council because we have direct oversight of the CVC have the right to review the financial statements annually of the the Maple Leaf Management. We have a right to review the financial statements of the CVB. We have the right to ask questions. And what we're not doing is we're not paying attention. And that's where if we're talking about continuous improvement, that's an area that we ought to be focusing in our time and energy on those conversations to understand the financial statements to understand where the music center is at financially. You know, how's it going? I don't know, for example, what's the occupancy? Does anyone in the county know what the total occupancy rate is?

No. No. So, we don't we can't answer that question really. You're not going to get inkeepers to provide that information. That's fair. You'll have a handful of wood. I tell you what mine is. No, it's all right. But, you know, and both of my properties are run the same. But, you know, I think for the county, it's kind of, but we could back calculate that. Get a pretty good calculate it, but what is it true? I know. All right. Then you have to know, you know, what the dollar is. What's the, you know, then what's the about 26? How many rooms do you have? You know, you have what's our capacity? Blah blah blah. Right.

Yeah. Well, let me ask you this just while you're here. You know, since the music center's been in operation from the BCI and seasons, hopefully that st helps stabilize your occupancy rate in those winter months. Hopefully, it it changes our winter months. Has it helped some? Okay. Oh, a lot. Has it helped a lot for the off times? And what's even nicer is we have these midweek shows, so it helps in that midweek. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because that's critical. And probably the big thing is it hasn't changed the occupancy rate as much as it's changed the average daily rate. Okay?

Because what we would normally charge in offse during the week because there are music center shows and we we see far enough out, you know, you can adjust rates based on that. So your average daily rate actually goes up. Okay. Which is why your inkeepers tax will increase. Okay. Tim, you got you got two high five opinions. I'd be interested in the opinions of other other council members. You got two. Leave alone. About leaving alone. Well, you got Darren and and Jim agree leave alone. How about the others? Like I'm curious. Any thoughts?

Sounds like to me it's a a [clears throat] wash. So I you know if you if you are getting rid of the the pilot then you're you're actually losing money. So I think we probably need to leave. question on the table is 50/50. We're not getting rid of the pilot. The pilot is a fixed. So, I I think we need to I think we need to just kind of leave it alone. That's three. I [clears throat] say leave it alone for the moment. Four.

I mean, as of right now with the pilot, we're pretty much 50/50 community foundation anyway. And I like the fact that we're [snorts] funding the community foundation. You know, as I said in our meeting, [clears throat] you know, trust issues with government. So, I want I like this being split in two different funding sources. One going to the going to the county for for for tax relief for the residents because all the money that goes in here is is an offsetting tax relief for the residents. Mhm. and going to the community foundation which which funds needs that we as council have no business getting involved in. [clears throat] Right. But it helps the county. It helps the residents. So I mean it's a benefit, right? Either way,

I think the the pilot stability of pilot payment is important to the county. I I I also think and kind of to Kevin's point and I think we need to solidify this, but if the foundation and this quality of life group coordinate on investments, many of those go to county projects, facilities, and public safety. if those are coordinated. So in other words, if the quality of life group does more of the projects that are not public safety related and the foundation guarantees more public safety funding, I like that. So um there's a way to to make that work. I think

foundation is forming. So I think that needs to be solidified that that will occur and and and essentially the taxpayers see the benefit [clears throat and cough] of those essential projects. I mean that's a that's a Which goes to the importance of establishing a fund where this goes into because we have that fund then and we say here's the dollar amount that went into that fund from the general fund. Yeah. And if if excess revenues hopefully hopefully knock on wood grow you know and excess revenues are now four five $600,000 a year that changes the complexion. No, no opinion. No opinion. Staying out. And the and the intent.

Oh, come on, Joel. We've had we've had the discussion [laughter] that, you know, that the pilot has stick your neck out. Started out at 54, went to 55, now it's 65. The plan is to bring that up to a level, you know, [cough and clears throat] what actually be received from. I think it's good. Object is on the table for discussion. It can be adjusted in the future. So, what's your position, Gary? I'm telling you. What's your position, Gary? You could talk forever and I can't talk for 30 seconds. [laughter] Come on. Something's never changed. Give my background. Just saying that. I think it's good. There's a discussion, but I defer primarily to Darren because he's more involved with it as our representative.

So, I'll go along with that. [cough] My thought is leave it the same because the pilot is a [clears throat] stable a stable number that we get. It's well hopefully the revenue grows. Yeah. And the revenue grows so our excess revenue can grow. All right. What we [clears throat] got next? Status quo. Teresa, you weren't clear on which way you went. What people I said what I had to say. I mean I was pretty clear. I thought status quo. I was pretty clear in what I said. So well what I heard what you said and what I heard is status quo. I don't know what you heard. Tim, are you writing an article for the Brown County managers? What your opinions are. Yeah, I I gave my opinion. I'm not sure what he was wanting us to say. Well, I don't know what you heard. All right, let's move on here.

Thanks, Kevin. Thanks, Kevin. Very much. All right, [snorts] bye, Kevin. [laughter] Dress warm. Wearing shorts, please. Got blanket buns. Yeah. May I have that, please? What?

How you doing, Patrick? You having fun yet? Yeah. [laughter] I love chaos. Joel's going to need therapy after [cough] this. I've got a French bottle of therapy at home, too. So, okay. This is um really small. Sorry. I'm not sure how to make that bigger for you.

Okay. So he what we have done is we every year can you hit your mic or something because I can't hardly hear you. [snorts] Okay. Yes. Okay.

Right now we um every year when we in the August to the end of the year we redo our bonds for the county employees who um actually handle cash and make deposits and dispersements. that is state regulated. It is an IC code. We in the past have gotten by with very low spending on those [cough] [clears throat] insurance companies and we got ourselves up to current standards. We're spending a lot more money on individual bonds than what we should. So, the research shows I've called five counties, not just our donut counties, [cough] um and discovered that most counties do blanket bonds. I've been working with Susan Beavers and Mike Moga and discovered that we still have some research to do, but we're kind of under the wire here to get it done for this year. We currently spend about $7,000 of our um insurance liability money that I keep asking for. This would reduce that cost um overall. So, I don't know what those figures are. The underwriter [clears throat] has our numbers and has given me a quote. There's still some Susan. I don't know how to say the criminal opposed to the shity blanket. Still got to do some rearch research there to find that out. But my request is that we start looking at this. This is going to be a council ordinance that has to be done. It's not a commissioner one to change the way we do our bonds. Um, I did more research and found that we have four categories that need um,

okay,

that that need to be individualized. Our sheriff deals with about a million dollars. So, his bond would be about 30,000 a year. Our treasur um, hers would be the highest where the state maxes you out at 300,000. So our treasurer would be our highest. Our auditor would be individual. That's a state standard of 30,000. So that's a million. And our clerk deals with about $2 million in deposits. So she would be about 60,000 a year. So those would be the four individual bonds that would be set out. Susan, I you don't have the email, but when we talked, you see there, it's auditor, treasurer, sheriff, and clerk. the reporter, the surveyor, the coroner, and the assessor could all fall underneath a blanket bond with rested populace. So, that is my request. I'm not really sure where to go with all this and what questions you may have.

Are we supposed to vote on this on the 17th? I would appreciate it if you did. Um, how much does this save us, bud aggregate bond? Well, because of all the findings we have found in the liability insurance, I'm not sure that our costs are going to go down, but we're going to put everything in the right bucket. Okay, that makes sense. So, we need to vote on this. We're insuring artwork for a quarter of a million dollars and we don't have anything here that would quantify that. So, so that could come on. of the fact that we've been insuring Andy Vaughn for $30,000 a year and she needs to be $300,000 a year. I have to wait on underwriting to give you those numbers. I don't know. Okay.

I do know that we have taken a lot [snorts] of [cough] a lot of cars off of our insurance, but that also goes into the fact that we had a lot of cars that weren't on our But you're talking about bonding versus property. It's all coming out [clears throat] of your same bucket. This is Yeah, but you get those are different contracts. Well, you're asking me dollars. I'm giving you the answer. Yeah, but I was just asking him specifically about bonding and property and casualty insurance is two separate issues. So those are two Yeah, I don't want to drop the coverage for the art piece. I'm looking at 50,000 in art just where I sit in this chair. No, you're not out the window. I've done math. I've done research. I'm done with the art gallery. That painting on the wall out there is probably I'm not talking about those.

I know we have some art, but I do know that we have none of the masters. Yeah, but that's property. masters. They're considered masters, but [cough] all the buildings there's a lot of valuable art. So, I don't want to eliminate that. That's what I thought I heard you say. You vetted it with the art gallery. You have. Can you talk about that more? They came around and did a walk through and looked at all of our paintings and what we have and we have no masters. They have all of their masters. They told me where you would be at for insurance wise if you needed to do that. What was that number? A couple million dollars if we had any, but we don't. Oh, but for the art we have, what did they say?

All the art we have has been donated. So there is no replacement value for it. So if this burning building were to burn down, they would be gone. They are donated pieces if we don't cover them. Yeah. Right. And we have previously covered them for a quart of a million dollars. It's way excessive. You think it's excessive? Have you It could fall under furniture and fix it fixtures, not its own category. I'd just say to see all that go away and never come back if it it was to burn. What she's saying is it's it's not purchased. It's donated. There actually no [clears throat] replacement value. There is no Thank you, Darren. That doesn't mean that's not valuable. No, it's valuable, but there's no other

I am not by any means. Let me reiterate saying that this artwork in this building is not valuable. Don't put that out there. I am saying that it is costing us unnecessary expenses. So, I am doing my job to shore it up and put it all in the right buckets. How much is it costing us? Do you know? I'd have to get the I don't have that. Here's the insurance question. If we if we would lo if we would lose the building and lose the art, are we [snorts] going to get compensated from insurance for the loss of the art? Currently, is there a replacement value or a purchase? Right, Darren. Darren Darren, there would be no insurance payout because there was no purchase value.

Is that right? As a licensed property and casualty agency for the last 35 years. Okay. First of all, bonding is a completely separate issue because to me bonding covers malfeasants. So if you get you an individual that has some criminal act that that creates a massive amount of liability for the county, that's when the bond steps in and tries to make us whole. That's a this is a completely separate issue distinct from covering this building

because you got the Well, [laughter] hang on a minute. If you got to cover the building, if you have your home covered under your homeowner's insurance or Julia has it covered and she has $300,000 worth of artwork, she will have to have an individual schedule for every one of those pieces of art. And that racks up the bill tremendously,

which is why we're at it was a number pulled out of the air. And then the problem that you get into now is once you structure the policy, you better go through and read the contract. Okay. And you better go by what the contract says, whether it's replacement cost or how it's just start, you know, blah blah blah blah blah. You'd have to have somebody come in and value. Oh, I know. Yeah. Which we can't. But what I hear you saying is that we've got this stuff hanging on the walls and it really doesn't have a whole lot of intrinsic value. Correct. And if the insurance company can prove that, okay, they're not going to pay. Correct. Right.

Because anybody they would ask after the walkthrough that I have had done to people, there is [snorts] no major value. And then if you disagree now, you take the insurance company to court. And they're just pieces that somebody thought was pretty and put on the wall, right? So there's which mean I really don't want to end up being that's really commissioner thing. I just Yeah, you can. And that's the commissioner's responsibility. So So this is okay. So So you're going to put this on the agenda for 17 so we can vote and approve it. S and I are still working on the agenda. I wanted to give you a heads up. I cannot give you a dollar amount because again it comes out washed, right? Whatever. But it is a council decision

and all you're doing is going from individual bonds to one collective umbrella. Correct. Yes. Got it. And did you say we had to individually bond somebody? Four. Four people. Okay. the sheriff, the auditor, the [cough] [clears throat] So they still have to be individually boxed. Correct. Oh, I see. Yeah. I have all the IC codes and everything research and stuff. Next. So, who does who is the blanket covering that? Anybody who deposits, transfers, disperses any of our funds. And at this time we have we have them I know I I know but at this time we have them individually covered individually to the So it's going to take everybody but those four put them under one blanket.

Yes. An example of the increase would be like under Mayfield's insurance we were paying $60 per person. Right now we're paying $176 per person. Okay. So it's it significantly changes it. Well thank you for saving money. I save money. I just need to get it in the right buckets. You're saying it's not going to save money necessarily. I don't know. We don't know. The fact is you're getting it. I'm not even going to speculate. Internal control, but I can tell you with integrity that where [clears throat] you're spending your money and what categories you're covered under will be proper. Will be proper, easier to track. That's next. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. All right. Um, what's next? You got me on there.

Dog checks, gas, opioid money, stuff like that. [clears throat] What about the EDC for the cars? Anything like that? You said the police cars are coming out of the EC. Is that correct? Okay. Yes. So I want to correct um Mr. Kemp, the uh police vehicles are not coming out of the general fund. Those are coming out of Yeah, I know. I just use that for example. Bad example. That's okay. [laughter]

Um okay. So on that subject, let's talk about the that fund. Where are you guys at with your budgets? And did you cut anything out of our budgets? because we had with the sheriff's department, we had sat down and worked on them having a budget line that they could grow on and it could go back into that budget line so they could start purchasing cars and not waste money on leasings. Did any of that change? I'm asking for the sheriff because he's ready to start looking at purchasing vehicles. So, he's Okay. Well, have Brad give me a call.

Oh, I was part of that. That is a commissioner budget. I'd like to know what if you cut any money out of that budget. Didn't you approve budgets? Yes. And there there's no way that was a question. Well, because I'll tell you why. I I also have an issue here because nobody has contacted any offices to say anything about whether Thank you. what was gone or what's not. That's not my responsibility. That is your responsibility. Can we get the budget by chance? I would love to have Could the council get the budget so that we can have those conversations? Yeah, you sure can. I mean, we can't give something to someone we don't have ourselves, right? That's pretty much true.

So, let's get the budget in the council's hands so we can see it. Well, has it come back from the DGLF? Because No, we do not have that. Well, because usually we don't pass out budgets. What has No, we're not passing out budgets. We're just handing it to you so you can go to these people and say this is what we took out of your budget or we didn't take anything. Usually what in the in the past what has happened is this is this is what is approved by the DGLF and this is your budget. It's and that usually comes in November.

First of all, we didn't take anything out of anybody's budget that we that they don't that they shouldn't be they should be aware of. All right. Number one. All right. Because number two, why would I have a conversation with a department head if we just approve their form of ones as submitted? All right, so there's really no reason to get a hold of a department unless we do go in and make adjustments to their budgets. Number two, the 17th will be on the agenda that we're going to bring up the issue of what happened at the last meeting. And so we are currently working with REI to get clear about what the October 2nd budget book that was that came out the last version versus what was submitted in the gateway. All right. So we will address that issue on the 17th at our regular session meeting. [snorts]

Thank you for that explanation. So we Okay. Moving forward also speaking with the sheriff's department. Um I don't know if you're aware that Brad absorbed um Melissa Tapman's salary into the jail. Yeah, we're aware of that. Yeah. Well, I know you might be, but I don't know about yours. Um and I've discovered an area that might relieve our budget using the restricted opioid money. We have not tapped into this money. her. Um, this has been the balance I'm getting ready to show you is a collective. It has been here for um quite some time

because I always thought we were still receiving. We do not. Yeah, we do. I got the schedule up too. Um, it's on a redundant basis each year. Yes, it is. It declines a little bit every year. Right now, um, what you're going to see is the accumulation of quite a few years of growth. Um, but since we are working hard to get this year's budget going on, this is your current balance in that fund. This is the um restricted money. She would fall into this category. So, you could relieve the sheriff's

for the year for the year. But this you probably get a cup a little bit more out of this actually if you wanted to because you could use her benefits and things in that too. Can you send me an email with this? Yes, if you would. Restricted portion is [snorts] what's it restricted to? Remind us. Um it's it's very well it's very restricted but she it goes into mental health. It qual she qualifies for she would qualify because she deals with drug and so that would fit. And then if and she's we were getting this to buy and give it up [clears throat] for her. So that would alleviate our general fund.

Now again wouldn't relieve it every year 100% as it could this year but you're getting a small deposit in there every year. I think $12,000 is is schedu. So you could um you could use some of that and then relieve it and then have it send me an email with this. Yeah. And stuff. But this money is not being used to I can't get free op opioids through the health department. No, not happening. It's because you don't pay your dog tax. [laughter] [snorts] Okay. Now, okay. So, I pay my dog tax. [cough]

I I calculated it out to Here's the graph right here. um it goes out. I mean, you're at 20 2032 here and you're still getting um 100. You're getting 14,000 and 34. So, you're still getting cash all the way up to 32. Okay. So, it's going to be it's going to be around for a little while. Still going to build. Yes. depending on how you spend it. You're it again, it's a resource you have not tapped into that is you could use for salary. Just wanted to point that out. Um and I accidentally because herself her salary.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll just pay her out of this opioid fund.

I was originally trying to figure out how to fund the centerstone because we are required by law to pay centerstone every year. That has historically been coming out of the commissioner's department 0068. Um, it was 119. I think I have I had to ask for money last year and I believe I had to ask for money this year. Next year, I finally got the numbers from them. They graciously provided us a letter. They increased it 5%. So, we need 161,000 for next year. So, right now in unrestricted opioid money, you have 61 in there that we could use towards paying this bill this year. So, it's kind of it would wipe this out.

That bill's out, which we have to pay. Yeah, we have to pay them every year. So, um again, this would not be an ongoing solution. It could help relieve what's coming out of the commissioner's department, but it would be a relief for the 26 budget to [clears throat and cough] It would take it out of our current what we requested. Doesn't the health department have a lot of oversight of those funds or No. No. Say this. Shouldn't they? There are restrict I mean both funds have restrictions. Yeah. What do you mean restrictions on how they're to be used?

Even as this you couldn't pay this but you couldn't pay center directly out of this fund. I would have to ask permission from you to transfer this money to the general fund and then it would have to be paid that way out of it. So you can't you can't just pay it right out of there.

Yeah. Well, the only thing I'm going to say is um you know my takeaway from this year is you know I'm talking to the council members is you you've got all of these you've got you know all 30 let's say you got 30 departments [snorts] you have all these various funds we have all these line items. We're having this conversation right now and the challenge with it is is we can work on trying to do the best we can to determine the appropriations for the following year's budget. The challenge is is how many people's fingers are playing around with the data. All right? So we can't have multiple people from multiple areas going into the system and changing numbers because when you got that happening people making decisions and moving this from well

who's doing that? Yeah. Who's doing that? We can't do that. So you can't do that. So So well you're bringing up proposals for changes, right? Which is great. With these changes, we need to first they need to go to REI, right? Because we've hired and we're paying REI money to oversee our budget. Correct. Okay. Okay. So, any proposed changes that we're going to make, we need to keep them comprised so that we can accurately track the data. That's on you, not me. I'm just bringing this up to you.

Well, I know. I'm bringing this back so that any proposed changes because you're you're going in, you're doing your job and that's great, right? But we need to, you know, get a policy in place, you know, of kind of a process that we follow so that everybody's on the same page and we're not, you know, Yes. Let's all be on the same page because so good. Don't stop. Don't even start. Okay. Please, please don't start. We'll address it on the 17th. All right. You're dang right. We will. Yeah, we certainly will. So, I do not appreciate what you did to us on that last that last meeting. Okay. This is my time, please. Yeah. So, go ahead,

Teresa. That is my proposal to help relieve. It would help our commissioner fund and it would also ultimately help you guys. It would help the sheriff's department because you were trying to find funds for him. And can you get send us a you know send all the council members an email with your request and what your proposal is with the appropriate attachments so that we all have that. Okay. [cough and clears throat] Then we can work on figuring out what we need to do to get it implemented. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Because I don't know your time schedule. I don't know the I don't know your job. So I don't know when you have to know those things. That's why I'm bringing it up. I'm sorry it's late.

No, no, no. That's all right. But just yeah, just get it to me if you could get it to me fairly quick and then that way we can get, you know, work on, you know, what we need to do to get it implemented. Okay, I'm [clears throat] going tell you one thing right now. You are not the auditor and you need to stop acting like it, Julie. Hey, back down. No, no, I'm not. Better drop it. No, I'm not, Julie. I'm not going to back down. Okay. The auditor does not control the council. I'm not trying to control me. And that's not going to happen. I'm done with it. Well, I don't care whether you're done with it or not. This together rough edges. There's no question about that. So, we'll get them straightened out. But I can't tolerate the errors anymore in your office.

There's a lot of people can't tolerate a lot of things from each other. I'm sorry. The what errors, huh? You're part of the error. If you want to start slinging mud, you can start those out. Yeah. Discuss 26 is going to be a total review of the whole and I'm not going to allow you to bully me. That's right. We're not going to bully anybody. We're going to be nice to each other.

Okay. I gave you I gave you paperwork at your last meeting to review so that you could make a decision for me on your [clears throat] next meeting. I wanted to come to this meeting to request your questions and to do any explaining that need to be done and legend and some other cash that I found that we don't need. So, um, did any of you happen to bring this referring to your homework? Did anybody else bring theirs? So, I put it up on the board so that you can see it because I kind of figured I wasn't going to make another 100 copies of this. Um, got it.

So, obviously cleaning has been on a a big thing for us. We do not have enough money appropriated for the cleaning. This should not be brand new information for anyone. Everybody knew that we underbudgeted this for 25. So this is my audit for our last quarter of the year. What we need to finish out the cleaning contract. So that is what that is. Any questions on that or concerns?

No. Now this is the lovely liability insurance that I'm not going to go into the weeds with again. Um this is again um shouldn't be a surprise for you guys. I had to ask for, I believe, $63,000 last year to finish the year. Um, again, we knew that 25 was going to be a shortfall for us. This is my This is everything. I have audited um Liss Mcnite. I have audited um our insurance agent, which the name can't think of the name just escapes me.

Alicia.

Thank you, Alicia. Greedy. Um, I have audited all those numbers. I have went through and found out what they are invoicing us up to 1231 of this year. So, this 83,000 is only like a $2,000 cushion there cuz it was like 82 and some cash. So, that is why this number is here. I will tell you that in diving into the insurance, we have discovered that um we I just got a bill that I wasn't expecting for $20,000 for the um 4 fairgrounds because we cover their liability on on a state. So, it's we're still learning in our office what all that liability insurance coverage is and what all those avenues are. Um, not really sure that I agree with everything the county is paying out to all the different entities, but that's above my pay grade. So, that's where this $83,000 um request is coming from. That will get us through the end of the year. Hopefully with our audit, they are taking stuff off our insurance. So it will in the third quart in the first quarter of 26 which is the third quarter of this payment because it goes happier to happier um we should start seeing some reflection for next year but I again I won't know those numbers until everything comes out in wash okay [clears throat] gas and oil I requested 26,000 um audit another audit that we performed with the highway department Sandra Pool I have to give kudos [clears throat] for this we couldn't figure out why commissioners were constantly falling short on the fuel. We discovered that it was simply a depositing issue. So Sandra gets all the fuel down there. She bills for diesel. She bills for gas and the commissioners pay for all the gas in the county. When she was billing all of

those entities, they were paying her bills for the gas that they use, but they was getting deposited back into the highway fund, not relieving the commissioner's budget. So I do have another transfer request that I am asking the commissioners to do or not the council um is to move from 1176 the highway money 47,000 to the commissioner's line to relieve the fuel. So I will not need this $26,000. So it's all legal. We can Yes, it's all legal. It is strictly a reimbursement.

Yes, we we were depositing it incorrectly. So, I raised this question in our budget sessions about the increase in the gas. Um, there was an increase in the request from the commissioner's gas line for 26. That's what Yes. And two 2026. And so, I'm wondering if we need to reduce that. Now, we will need to reduce that because um this will Yes. now that we know the deposits are being done wrong. So basically everybody's been paying for gas and the commissioners haven't been being reimbursed for it. That's why we were falling so short that they reduce that budget in the commissioners gym.

The [snorts] gas budget was and I questioned this at the time and and we learned since this wasn't correct and so we need to decrease that. It's like 20 26k or something 25k that we can pull back into for savings uh to reduce our structural deficit. Yeah, I've got gas, oil, and lube. 65, I think. I got gas, oil, and lube. It's line item. It looks like it's line item uh 22100. Yeah, I requested 237. 237 grand, right? And it went up. I forget how

when that number was Keep in mind that the only people that are reverse re that are paying their fuel bill that we would be reimbursed for are the town of Nashville, the Nashville Police Department, the health department. I think that's it. It's not like I'm going to get tons of fun in the back, but I will get some. Town of Nashville fills up at the highway department. Yes. Huh? Well, they pay us. They pay us back. But yes. Yeah, you pay us back. How do we track what? They have that. It's a beautiful system. I'm telling you, she's got it under control over there. And so we're not getting ripped off. We're not getting

No, they got numbers on the pump. No, she goes certain codes everybody has gallons and everything. So they know how much it is all audited. Well, you know what? I We buy all our fuel off of Premier Egg is what I've been told. Yes. And what I've never seen is I'd like to know over the last five years how many thousands of gallons of diesel fuel did we buy annually and how many thousands a gallon of gas pool has all those numbers if you have any questions [cough and clears throat] about she has a beautiful and I encourage you to go so I can go back the last five years and just see what the total she's only been there for a year and a half so she can't for anybody else but I can tell you the other Megan was over there Pita was over there

right but my point is is with this is forecasting what the expenses are going to be from one year to the next ought to be based on the total gallons used for the previous year's average. Yes. Because all you got to do is then just simply estimate what fuel costs are going to be for 2026 and that tells you how much money you got to have. Right. Again, not [cough] I just want my money back. Yeah, I know. I do too. Yeah. I don't want Yeah. So, right. Yes. I encourage you to speak with her because she's got it under control. Okay. All right. Yeah. I'll get a hold of her. So that 26,000 right there in that line item, if you allow me to to transfer the 47, I have to advertise it. This is brand new information.

Okay, wait a minute. Hang on. Let me get back to So you're talking about 22100 gas, oil, and lube. We budgeted for 26 237,000. Correct. And what are you asking for? I am tell I am asking for the $47,000 that is trapped in the highway fund. 1176. Oh, Highway to be transferred to the commissioner's 0068. 0068. That's the commissioner's department. That's their That's their You're taking money out of the highway department and flipping it over to the council. Yes, because my money has been deposited over there. Money.

That way I don't have to ask you guys for money for this account. It's going to the wrong place. You will put that on a Right. But I'm missing line. It should be going from line item to line item. It's It's not It's It's a fun to fund. That's why it has to be advertised. Yes. Here's what Jim, here's what happened. You have been paying for gas and there is a refund coming from the gas company, but it's been going to your neighbor. So, what she's saying is, can your neighbor give you the What I'm missing is is I didn't hear you're pulling money out. What fund is the money coming out of from the highway department? 1176. 1176, right? Okay.

And then you're proposing we try trans transfer X amount of dollars out of 1176 department to what fund and the commissioners general. Yes, it would be the general. Okay. All right. That's I was unclear. Here's all the numbers you want to see. I was I was unclear on that. This is this is an example of what she had for September everybody that she build and what they build us. All right. All right. So, Jim, to add a third thing because the gas budget for next year was overestimated due to this. So, 237 was overestimated. Yes. By how much? To reduce that for next year or else we're just adding I

I don't know yet because it's not everybody. It's not all the fuel. It's just a few. So, this is brand new for me. All right. All right. Just getting it. I don't know what that savings is, but it will be there. And we can't reduce that until after we get our 1782. Correct. Okay. Uh 17. We already got 1782. You were talking about the final budget, right? No, that is the 17. That is 1782. Okay. Moving on. Uh the next item, litigation. More than they need. Um [laughter] I requested 20,000 for that. More than they need. I have two bills that I can't even process unless somebody gives me permission to write red ink. No,

they have called me and asked me for payment. So that is say that again. Who's what's happening? I have two bills for litigation that I cannot pay. I don't have the money to pay them. That is why that is on there. This is an additional appropriation to that line. Yeah, you got 20 grand out here. I do not have permission to write. [cough] Therefore, [clears throat] I am not paying a bill. I'm late. was the litigation tied to employee issues.

Okay, Susan, these requests that Teresa is requiring, [snorts] do you have to draft an ordinance for us to pass with all that's in there to change make these recommended changes? Not an ordinance. It's an appropriation. Additional appropriation. So, Julie's going to advertise it. It's been advertised. And then we'll have an additional preparation to bring to your meeting so you can pass it on the 17th. That's why we did it. So we're not scrambling at the end of the year. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. But I guess my question is is so you've advertised this. We've done all the proper forms. Okay. And then this shows on the docket for the 17th in the form of an ordinance or just a resolution?

Additional appropriation. It's just an additional appropriation. But okay. Whatever. And then next year you might even have to actually I mean if we owe it we owe it. We owe it. You got to pay it. Yeah. Hey, I don't have Yeah, the only the only other Go ahead. Sorry. I've moved money around in our budget.

That's another thing I'll tell you. Okay. Um multiffactor IV. Um this is we had the $7800 right there. This was monies that we wanted rolled over from 24 into 25 that never got moved. So, we need that to pay out our current bills for our IT department. That is what those are. Publications. Um, again, new discovery for us. I did not realize that the commissioner's office was responsible for everybody's advertising and advertising has went up. I know Juliet, we please educate me because I don't understand it either. [cough and clears throat] Everybody's got line items, but why we're paying it, I don't know.

Plan Commission has their own. We are currently I don't have the money to pay uh several bills with them right now. Again, they [clears throat] are calling me for payment and I will be writing red ink if I process those claims. So again, this to me is one that should be able to be done pretty quickly because it's again money that we knew we were going to need in 24. We told everybody we needed it moved in 25 and it never happened. So can we get this split out to whose office is what and then maybe it is it's all in the paperwork I gave you all the itemized thing. Couldn't you have could could you have paid all this and just wrote red ink?

Yes. But I was told not to write red ink. Who told you not to write red ink? I did. They did. Okay. Because we haven't paid Rei for the last five months either is what I was told recently. So we've got five months worth of invoices. We've [clears throat] not paid off [cough] that we've not paid. So, and then the other thing, this is just your department. This these are the commissioners. This is just the you the commissioners, right? Yes. All right.

Okay. So, the next [cough] line item on here is centerstone. I told you that we knew that we underbudgeted centerstone for 25 $25,000 um to finish out the bill for the year. [cough] If if it changes where like if they give me permission to take center money out of the unrestricted is that okay? I mean could they give me permission to take it out of this rather than just a make it a transfer rather than an additional appropriation? I mean because the unrestricted funds sit in their own fund it would be an additional appropriation. It's just an additional appropriation out of the unrestricted fund instead about a general fund.

Okay. So that's an option. You all understood what she just said. Um and it engineering. This is another one where we [clears throat] had funds aside and unspent in 24 that we needed to be transferred to 25 so that we could pay all of the invoices for this year. [clears throat] That's and I gave you again all of this is the form we fill out. This is all of the I tried to write what all that was already.

So on that note, I also gave you guys a just to let you know what we were doing. I gave you the we have transfers that we just need to be done within the funds. Um, my question to you is on the bottom of that form, it has a place for your office to fill out whether or not it's approved or what it when it happens. Will I get those forms back? Because that Okay, that would help me answer my commissioners. Okay, so the total there and overspending and commissioner's budget was 148. 148 with that 26,000 still in there. I would subtract that

126 over plus the other two kind of transfers out of the opium fund were were discussed earlier right sheriff's jail service coordinator and well the this is 25 numbers that I'm dealing with here what I proposed with the opioid 26

my point is Jim 3 400,000 floating around here. Let's get in front of reading and make sure it makes sense to them and we shouldn't be transferring money to in different ways to different funds in a more effective way. Like this is a great way to put them to work, you know, because I mean you identified two places we could put the 360,000 out of opioids, but that doesn't mean those are the only two places where it's needed to offset property tax funded items, etc. Uh, and so I want to make sure we're capitalizing on the expertise of reading. Theresa, have you had any conversations with Jerry Hickman andor uh Reagan?

I do not know that I had permission to speak with them. So now I have to let's put in front of the net because I mean I'm going to bring them in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's too much money to just randomly select where it goes. My my concern for the whole county is basically data integrity. Bottom line. You know, it's, you know, the challenge with the data integrity is the more people you got people's fingers in this thing making changes. You know, again, let me reiterate it's hard. I do not have permission to make changes. I am just saying this. No, I know. I But you're proposing changes. Yes. Right. I will do that always.

Right. Okay. But it keep in mind, you know, when you you you know, when you you asked me earlier last week when we had a meeting about, you know, whether or not I had a time to review, you looked at this and I told you no, I did not take time, right? Because, you know, to be honest with you, you start going through this, your eye starts glassing over. Yeah, but that's I understand that, but that takes, you know, time on my end to really sit down, cross reference, make sure it's accurate. [cough] you know, and I'm sitting in here basically trying to play forensic auditing, you know, to make sure and it's it's very difficult. It's very trust us too.

Yeah. But I I think there Let me just say this. Is there not Can we all not agree that there are ways for all of us to improve going forward? Yeah. Right. Okay. I agree. So if when we have conversations instead of tempers and passions getting out of control if we could all simply just let's agree that it's a work in progress right how do we improve and just start framing it in a continuous improvement because I think one of the challenges is is that each and every everybody you know everybody here wants to help right yes

okay and when Somebody calls you and says, "Hey, can what do you think I should do that makes you feel good?" Right? So, we all want to help. We all want to contribute, but the challenge is it's it's the vast amount of information. I mean, you got 30 departments, you got all these freaking funds, these line items, and all this stuff. And it's really hard to track. So, it's it's that flow of information. Who does what? How do we you know, what should it go? You know, because you you're over here going, I didn't even know I didn't know I had approval to talk to Rei. Why wouldn't you not have approval to talk to Rei? Because it's council's Well, see, so it gets back, right? It gets there's a So, we need the council needs to improve that. Right.

Right. A lot of internal controls the SPOA on it. All right. But we haven't done anything. We're priority. We're prioritizing that. We have to get it done. We can't sit here and talk and talk and talk and talk. Be nice to have been able to talk [cough] with absolute facts rather than correct. Yeah. And all I'm going to ask going forward, I've got another year on my tour duty. All right. So, you know, and if they all want me to continue to, you know, if they want somebody else, you want to take it, go for it. And Joel, step in and handle it.

Joel, then we're going to have to work on define our processes and make sure, you know, who do you contact for this? Blah blah blah [snorts] blah. So, that chain of communication is in place and we all, you know, we're all on the same page. Well, Teresa's I mean what happens when the chain gets screwed up is what happens with Ry. [clears throat] Well, then we need to step in and fix it, you know, because because to me Well, yeah. And Julie, cuz what I'm doing right now on the 17th of the month, you know, I picked up the phone and had a lengthy conversation because I do not I don't know what happened, okay, and why we had to experience what we experienced Monday. But I don't want that to happen ever again. Not a good

Not a good thing. It was not a good experience at all. Okay. So, what can we do going forward and what happened and where was the disconnect? I think he needs to work with me. Well, then let's address that issue. Well, then let's address that issue and what's [cough and clears throat] that look like? But because our finance committee meeting Well, or no, why don't we because what I take away now is what we probably ought to do [cough] is we'll set up a meeting with Terresa Goian. You me, Jerry Hickman. That's okay.

And have the four of us sit down and discuss this [cough and clears throat] and where do we need to prove? How do we improve it? I would also learn a lot about all of All right. So, let me let me work I've got a meeting next week with Hickman, but let's and but I just going forward continuous improvement. How you know, we're going to [clears throat] have disagreements. We're going to have temper flares. We always have had that's going to happen. You you know you you throw a temper tantrum. You get over it and then you come back and go, "Okay, how do we how do we move forward and how do we make sure this doesn't happen going forward?" But which gets back to Gary that we've got to start writing this stuff up,

right? And documenting it. But then Scott and I talked about it's one thing for us to write it up and document it, but if we don't ever pay attention to it to where we go back and go, "Okay, what did we decide we were going to do?" You with me? If we don't pay attention to it and follow it, then it's then why even create it? I I have questions before you all leave on on your next meeting schedule for next year. You give me that cough, I'm going to kill you. Me, too. You need a you [laughter] need a donation for a new [cough] lung or something. You need a new donation for I could have cancer not even know on some of your work sessions. I want to know if you want to change some of these work sessions so that you can vote

during them. Susan, you got an opinion? That's up to you all if you want to have two regular meetings. Yeah. In your month. I think that's the question that Julie is asking pretty much. Well, let me ask let me ask the council this. I personally operate off of I'd rather have it not need it than need it, not have it. Yeah. So, what's your float? What we want to know is do we want to change these to actually regular or we could if we wanted to. Yeah. Because if we if we could if we could if we wanted to because what we're addressing is is you got a quadrant one problem. You got a major fire needs a vote now. We need to address it.

Correct. And if we have the ability to do that, that's right. Then and if it's already advertised and we don't have to worry about, then why wouldn't we just default to having where we can have the liberty, we don't have to, but right, we we already had that. What we set them up this year was that they work. These would be work sessions if and it would not be it would not be typical [clears throat] to to vote to make take an action or a vote. I know in the work session unless we had to and if we had to we would make sure to advertise that. Yeah. But hang on a minute. I don't think

so what you're ask what you're asking is instead of having to at the last minute advertise it as taking an action just advertise all of them for next year as we may take action both. We have the option. Any downside to that? I mean, it's just public notice, you know? I don't like the idea of things appearing on the agenda in a work session that were not previously posted and voted on it. It if they are significant important, if it's minuscule operational,

you know, that's one thing, but if it's a significant item that we think the public would like to speak to or address, I I don't like those things. I prefer I prefer to keep it the way we have it now for the sake of transparency. Yeah, like that. Yeah, that's how it is. For the sake of transparency, if we're going to vote on something, it should be our at our regular monthly meeting. And to Jim's prior point, we've already got a policy on this and we said work sessions are for discussion. No voting. We've already got a policy. All right. Can I ask you make the exception that we could take votes on an individual basis if an emergency,

right? I think we should in the interest of that general, but Darren, what has to happen? Julie, what do you have to do? Susan, what has to happen? All right. When we have We got to have 48 hours notice. So then that throws the pressure on you. So if if we got a special session meeting coming in on Thursday, all of a sudden something on Friday rears its ugly head and now we got to put out a fire on Thursday which is going to require a vote that requires you to do 48 hours notice. 40 you can vote before you can vote.

So if we got these these work session meetings so we're not spending six hours in a regular meeting hash things out. If we have some emergency that comes up like that anyway, we'd have to call a special. Let's talk about an emergency right now because we got to deal with vote centers. It's not an emergency, but let's skip Gary. There's an assumption that it was on the agenda for our last official meeting on Monday. And I was told that well, we didn't need the council did not have to be involved in approving the new voting centers. Then I was told afterwards, yes, we do need to be involved. We need to take a vote on it. So, it's on the agenda today to take a vote. You have an we have an advertised for you to be able to take a vote for today. So there's an example.

So let's get this is a very good example right here Susan. So catch us up here because we've already passed one. [cough] [clears throat] This was a month two months ago. We were asked by chair of the vote of the election board Mark Williams to take a position or an action on vote centers. We did that I thought. Yeah. That was to support them going forward with that. Yeah. And we we Would you like me to call the clerk? Well, I Yeah, because I think there's a a timeline here. And so we need to know what we passed. Yes, this could be that. And Julie, would you ask your staff to pull that what we passed up

so we can see it? because maybe we've already completed what she needs, but if we haven't, we need to know. [sighs] Oh, I don't know where any Well, I've only got one staff member that knows anything that's going on down there cuz Sandy had to go to a doctor today. So, can we jer maybe go maybe we need to go pull that? I have one pull what we passed in our last I have one more thing on mine. How you It's a dog tax. We have to Susan and I are working on your dog tax ordinance. If you're going to eliminate that tax Yeah. before starting January 1, you have to do the work now. And

let's do the work now. So, thank you. Um, we have one drafted. Susan, we can't vote on it now. Let's put on the agenda for our next meeting and deal with it then. 17. Yeah. Okay. Okay. and she still has one. Oh,

it is all the same topic. Smarty. Um, she still has to do the distribution this year. So, we have $30,000 that we do to the Humane Society and some of that money has been going to the Humane Society out of the dog tax. It hasn't been distributed as your ordinance currently states, which is to produce. So, that needs to be looked at by you all. I don't know what information you want to. Do we have to disperse by the end of the year? Okay, hang on a minute. I got Perita on the phone over here. Oh, okay. Good. So, what do you want me to do? Go back. Go back to your voting centers and I'll wait. Well, here find out what date.

Hey, Pita, you're on the speaker phone. Okay. I promise not to say bad words. All right. Pita with Pita that it's Scott the council passed I believe something two months ago upon being presented something by Mark Williams um it was an ordinance or a letter of some kind and we passed it I believe Hold on I'm digging for it on my desk I'll tell you I'll tell you exactly what it was oh for the love of Pete if you could see my desk. [laughter] I I know what mine looks like. [clears throat]

Um, it says council bill order number five, resolution number 2025-0000421-00001.

That looked like it was recorded on 422. Oh, that's my son's birthday. Um, 2025. Okay. Uh, Susan, what was it? Go ahead and read it to us if you can. What was the title?

It says a resolution approving the designation of Brown County as a vote center county. Whereas Indiana Code 3-11-18.1 allows counties to adopt a vote center model. And whereas the county council of Brown County approves the designation of Brown County as a vote center county. And whereas the county election board has the responsibility for properly drafting a vote center plan for Brow County, which plan will effect upon unanimous vote of the Brow County Election Board and proper filing of the plan with the Indiana Election Division. Sounds like they affect it finally. Susan, what do you think?

Right. Well, I can tell you that when Mark Williams gave me this, since it said resolution at the top and all seven signatures were on it, I sent it to the IED, which is the Indian election division. And um they're using it, so we're good. I don't need anything else from you. Awesome. Susan, do you agree? I I do. I prepared that earlier this year. It it's you know it's the election board that has to approve it and get the plan approved by the state and that's Pita's job and I think the election board has done that. Yeah, the election board. After the election board does that though, we don't have we don't have any further here. Let's do this. Pita, read the last vote to approve that.

Correct. Read the read the last what? Last sentence one more time because I think that Go ahead. solidifies it.

Well, okay. There was more after that last sentence. It says, "Now be it resolved by the Brown County Council of the County of Brown," which you guys might want to watch your typos because I had to scratch out Jackson and write Brown in [laughter] um that Brown County is approved to operate as a vote center county on the required approval and filing of the Brown County Vote Center Plan. This resolution shall be effective and in full force from from and after its passage as by law provided. Okay.

So, you've passed your portion of what you need to do in order for Brown County to be a vote center. There's no final order. And then page two two says adopted by the Brown County Council this 21st day of April 2025 and it has all of your signatures plus Julie's Kita. Our attorney is advising us that we have executed our portion as needed to execute the vote centers. Perfect. I agree and concur. Okay. This matter is now closed. All right. Thank you. Bye. Thank you for Thank you. Goodbye. Goodbye. You need transfer approval for the 30k. Now I need to know where

we already have that in in our budget to spend. Um I don't know you were there, right? Bill, Patrick, I need what? You were there with the humane society and Yes, I was at that meeting that was already agreed to to give them a portion of of last year's. Right. Correct. So, they requested 35,000 a year instead of 30. I don't know where you guys are with that. Um, I think we approved that and that was already we I think we approved that. That was brought up before the I think we approved it, too. Yeah, I think I think that was brought up here and we approved that. Budgeted for it, I should say. Yes.

Okay. So um the so then for the auditor's sake the funds that are in the dog tax right now will go to the proper way of Purdue extension. Wait a second. What do you mean proper way? The current ordinance has you guys paying Purdue Extension out of those funds not the humane society. Uh I think we need to revisit that. Okay. Especially positions. You have November and December. If you're going to do away with this and do a new ordinance for January 1, you this needs to be on the front burner. Yeah, we're not going to do a dog tax anymore, right? Correct. That's the just

that's the ordinance that we're working on right now. The ordinance is good. That's what you talked about before. Yeah, that you guys said you're going to charge $100 a dog. [clears throat] $75. That's one question. And you're working on the ordinance. You'll get that to us at our next meeting. But the other piece that you're talking about is where does the residual funding go? And I don't think we should predetermine it goes to Purdue Extension. We already have an ordinance. We have not been following the ordinance. Oh, no. Well, okay. Let me say this. If it's going to Purdue Extension, we should [cough] reduce our [clears throat] budget allocation wherever it's coming from elsewhere from current sources. Does that make sense?

Would this be something I can talk to about? Yes. So, let's alleviate 30K somewhere else and use this instead [clears throat] of tax funds to fund extensive. I think we should put it in the opio. Yes. Okay. We got 30,000. [cough] By the way, real quick, Teresa is bringing up multiple issues from multiple departments, very complicated sources. She is not to be shot as the messenger. She is to be thanked and appreciated and she's raising issues that if these were not raised would become [clears throat] much bigger problems down the [applause] road. So, thank you. We need to make sure

the other thing on the agenda was incumbrances over 2026 came up at our last meeting on Monday. We discussed it just briefly said we should have high scrutiny by council. My [clears throat] voice has died. Yeah, this is for carryover funds. Teresa, go ahead. Well, okay. So, I [clears throat] have questions about this because I don't understand that because we did away with them when I came on board with the county. So, you approved in your last meeting to allow incumbring of funds. Yes, they did. Well, we said we were inclined to do that and would discuss it in this work session and approve it with formal policy at our next

question is are you if you if you pass this in in November, are you allowing us to do this for 26? Question one, because that's going to make a big difference on all of our budgets and what we've all worked on. You mean for at the end of 26 or at the end of 25? end 25 because we have a lot of funds where we've already realized that we needed to encumber money and our goaround of that was to carry over like what I brought up in mine saying that [snorts] we we asked for funds from 24 to be moved to 25. That's basically what encumbering is. So we already have some of those that we know we need. How are we as your people you encumber the money to pay for a specific

I get that but right now we're calling it carry forward. Are we going to have a form to fill out? Are we going to have this? Let's do this. We have to have permission from the council. You've already got You've already got a meeting with Ry to discuss several hundred,000 in transfers. This is right in line with that same discussion. There are other transfers that you could or may not want to do that may benefit the county's budgeting process that need to be discussed with Rei. And

the sheriff's cars are going to be huge money to build every year. kind of discussion and so let's add that to the list. And Jim, I we need you to dig in here with Julie and Jerry. Uh because we got half a million plus in the play [clears throat] right now. Transfers going all over the place. Our budget is banking on carryovers. We'll get it resolved. Okay. Jim's gonna I have one last question. Thank you, Teresa. Where are we on the salary ordinance? Susan, I was working on it actually this morning before I came here. I was hoping to have it done so that you could take a draft with you right now and I did not get. That's fine.

So, I want to get it to you next week so that you can have time to look at it and tell me if there are errors. Okay. Say next week. Yes. But we could pass it in December. Could we not? You absolutely. Most people do pass it in December. Let's pass. What do you guys think? Let's pass it in December if it is completely and thoroughly reviewed and act. Right. Well, that gives us enough time to review it, correct? If there's any changes, it gives you enough time to make a change. Let's actually review it. Let's just We'll put that goes Gary on the agenda December. Let's review it as if we're trying to pass it in November. That's fine. I just don't want

No, [clears throat] I Let me finish my thought. Boom. [laughter]

Let's [clears throat and snorts] review it like we're trying to pass it in November. That's fine. That way when we have the emergency come up in our November meeting and say, "Oh crap, we can't pass it now." We still have, in other words, do a November mark. Point out the disconnect that I just learned. So the Humane Society's money comes out of our budget being the commissioners, right? And if you guys passed um and agreed to pay them $35,000 a year rather than the 30 you raised it, there was no communication back to the commissioner's office that that would increase in our budget. We budgeted it. What is that disconnect? How could we fix that? We budgeted it. Yeah. Okay. We're paying for it. We didn't know that you Yeah. And furthermore, as we go forward trying to put in the budget.

Yeah. But again, our budget, so why would we not? Teresa, Julie, County Council, as we go forward trying to wrap up 25, can we start working on 26, 27? What I'd like to see us do, Julie, Teresa, council, is let's look at 26. Let's map out January through December with specific deadlines. So, and then let's address this so that we can stay on top of it and we're okay and we can got a process to follow so that 26 27 is a piece of cake.

I can tell you that I did appreciate the timelines that you had this year and it it did feel a lot more comfortable trying to figure out but like if you could back it up even a month that would be even better. Okay. Well, and then the other [laughter] and also too what do we need to do to improve it? long list, Jim. Well, can you start right now? Actually, what do we need to approve? We have it in when we were supposed to have it in, right? But let's It was Everything was going pretty smooth. Yeah, but Scott brought it up and you brought it up of the individual meetings with We're going to do that. How do we I got to ride along with the sheriff's department.

Oh, really? second [cough] [clears throat] ever. I've done one before, but I was in that beta. You all have to do open enrollment. You just never know. No. No. So, I got to I got to run. I got to go home, let the dogs out.