Area Plan Commission (apc) - Regular Meeting

Everybody ready? Okay. Um, I call the meeting of the Brown County Area Planning Commission on March 24th, 2026, Tuesday at 6:00 p.m. I'm CPM, 6 p.m. to order. Roll call. All right. Carol, present. Tim Allen here. Jane Moore here. Randy Jones present. Carrie Hamus here. Andy Bole here. Okay. You want to do the next part or do I do the next part?

Um, the commissioner's appointments to APC. So, Andy Boils and Kyle Deckards were both reappointed and both terms expire January 5th of 2030. Okay. 2030, which seems like a long way away. Uh, yeah. I guess it's really only like three years though. Um, next is approval of minutes from February 24th, 2026. Do I have a motion? Motion. And then I'll make the motion. Okay. And then a second. I'll second. Any discussion?

Roll call. Carol Bowen. Yes. Tim Allen. Yes. Jane Gore. Yes. Randy Jones. Yes. Carrie Hamus. Yes. Andy Boles. Abstain. Motion carries. Um, we have no old business and now we're down to new business.

All right. This is staff report for William E. Julia A. Smith minor subdivision. Docket number 26-P1. Hearing date March 24th, 2026. Petitioner is Connor Barnett for foresight land surveying. Property owners William and Julia Smith. Location the the parcel is located just south of 8822 Sweetwater Trail, Nineveh on the west side of the road, approximately 5,320 ft south of the intersection of Sweetwater Trail in Ed Road in Hamlin Township. Zoning and current land use. The 2acre property is zoned secondary residential R2 and has an existing driveway, shed, carport, and septic system. General findings. One, the petition is requesting approval of a one lot minor subdivision to create a legal building site. Two, the 2acre parcel was created from a larger tract in 1980. This means that the division was not flatted prior to 1978 when the subdivision control ordinance came into effect. and the lot requires a minor subdivision to create a legal building site. Three, the property has approximately 200 f feet of road frontage on Sweetwater Trail, which is a public road. Four, the Brown County Health Department issued permit number 35247 to allow a three-bedroom 3-bedroom presby system on July 11th, 2025. Five, South Central Indiana RMC provides electrical service to the property. Six, water services provided to the property by Brown County Water Utility Incorporated. Seven, the owners wish to build a three-bedroom home on the property. Eight, the plat the plat appears to meet all requirements for a minor subdivision to create a legal building site. This is looking southwest from the driveway,

northeast from the driveway. and then the copy of the plan. That's the end of the report. Okay. Are there any more questions? Kayla on GIS. Is that parcel 110 just below that or? Um, so you're on the public GIS. They are numbered separately. Oh, okay.

So I don't I don't see the numbers. Where's the existing parcel to new partial comparison? Um, so the petitioners also own the property to the north. Gotcha. Yeah. So that's the new parcel. Well, but it's already existing. What you're saying is it was like created but not recorded or approved appropriately essentially. So it's existed but not like beneficial. It's not it's not been platted. Okay. It wasn't platted prior to but it's obviously been used that for that purpose for Yeah. This is just like dotting the eyes of whatever legality.

Yes. Can you put the what they're proposing to build? I don't have the house plans on the presentation, but on on your last map, the last map you had there. You take it back this. Yeah. What they're proposing to build where it's going to be almost right is right in front of the carport. Well, I can't tell which. Okay, that's all all that stuff is gone. All that laptop stuff up there is all Okay. Gone. So, right in front of when you talk, you got to talk. Come up to the podium. Sorry. Because then you got to be in the microphone. Okay. Okay. Okay. The petitioner said right in front of the carport here. Yeah.

Is that accurate? I've got my Can you see my mouse? Okay. You guys can see it up here, too. Okay. That answers my question. This might be a better photo. So, you can clearly see the carport there. Mhm. So if it wasn't platted, what what was it? I mean, was it just So it did not So the the subdivision control ordinance came into effect in I believe October of 1978. So this lot was split out from a larger lot in 1980. Okay.

So it wasn't and it doesn't meet our 3acre minimum now. Right. So it was right there at the new implementation time of the new Okay.

Any other questions from the board? Cards. Uh 11 were sent out and eight were returned. Okay. Anything else? Petitioner, want to come up and um speak towards the petitioner? Thank you. Is this on? I don't think so. And of course, we just checked the batteries, too, right before. Is it on? No.

It shows that it's on. I don't hear anything.

Green means go, right? Mhm. Can you come up to this microphone here? Absolutely. I'll get out of your way.

If you want to sit, sit in the chair. Okay. Yeah. We don't We don't want you to hurt your back. Yeah. No worries. Uh, good evening everyone. My name is Connor Barnett with Foresight Land Surveying. Name Connor Barnett with Foresight Land Surveying.

Yeah, it's good to see everybody again. Um, again, I'm here representing Julia and William Smith. Kayla did a pretty outstanding job of explaining what's going on. Again, this lot was created right after the adoption of the subdivision control ordinance. I assume it was just missed when it was recorded, but it doesn't meet um the conformity of the existing subdivision control of the 3 acres or more. So, we're at 2.04 acres is what this measured. Um I I don't believe the petitioners or the the owners are going to have any issues meeting zoning setbacks. They've got septic approval, driveway approval, um electric. I think they've got everything they need to go ahead and get their building permit. really just more of a technicality as far as getting this minor subdivision approved hopefully tonight. Um, more more than happy to answer any questions you guys have.

Was that something? No, I just can't believe you made Kayla stand. How rude. You weren't here earlier. She's doing an exercise that way. Okay. I don't the This is pretty cut dry in my opinion. I don't really have any questions. Okay. And you may go have a seat. I appreciate it. Thank you. Just don't take my company chair. A different seat. Okay. So, we're bringing it back up. Does anyone have a motion? I would make a motion to approve docket number 26-P1 as submitted.

Do I have a second? I'll second it. Any further discussion? Roll call. Carol Bowen, yes. Tim Allen, yes. Jane Gore, yes. Brandy Jones, yes. Sarah Hammond, yes. Andy Bole, yes. Motion carries. What do they need to do now? So, we will both um you and Danielle will sign the flat tonight and then we will give it to either the homeowners or the surveyors and they can take it from there. It has to be recorded within one year, but I know you guys are looking to get a building permit anyway, so it will probably be more like one day,

I'd imagine. I assume you're Williams, Julia. Yes. Okay. Can I ask one question? Is it too late? Are you guys going to live there? Yes. Yay. Okay. All right. Okay. So, next we have discussions, announcements, and inspector reports. Does anybody have any questions on the the reports and donating and everything else? Did you say donating? Zoning. zoning

like you know the zoning inspector and then building inspector reports. I have a question about the hard truth hills. So they built that but they're not going to use it for what they're planning on using it for. Is that what it is or so how I understand it and I talked to Chris Curtain. It's been a couple years since I spoke to him about it. So there is excuse me Chris Curtain. Who is he? He is he works for Hard Truth Hills, Red Truck LLC and okay, Big Woods Pizza. I couldn't remember all three of them.

Um, so they're planning to get that parcel reszoned. They haven't done it yet. They thought it was already zoned. They went ahead and got a what they thought was a commercial building permit. It was just over the line from where their general business B3 property is. So, they're not using it currently. They went ahead and built it because they had all the materials and the permit. Um, they do have to reszone before they use it. Okay. It's been going on some for several years. Yeah. So,

and I have not heard that they are using it. I've had my my ear to the pavement. Okay. I've been trying to make sure. So, is there a compliance issue here with this? If they were using it, there would be the construction itself does not constitute any violation. No, it would be the usage afterwards. Yes. Okay. I assume they went through building inspector here on the Yes. Okay. All right. Were you able to ask the commissioners about the uh comprehensive plan or what?

I was. Um, so if you look at your new weird looking agenda that I just set up there, the sideways. Yeah. Um, so we don't have any docket items for next month. All three commissioners would like to come to the meeting so that way we can discuss in in a joint session. And then I saw they did not approve, you know, upheld our recommendation or however you would say it and didn't reszone that property from last month. Is that I mean has he been back seeking other remedy or is that um No, he and I had a conversation directly after the meeting. Um

the commissioner's meeting or our meeting? After the commissioner's meeting. Um and we both decided we needed to cool off a little bit. things got a little bit heated so we both decided we needed to cool off a little bit and he's supposed to contact me later this week. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail at that time. I didn't hear what the question was. I asked so the property from last month with the electrician the commissioners did not they upheld our recommendation and did not reszone and I was just asking if that I can't imagine that then he's just dropping it. So,

yeah. Um, his attorney has advised that he's going to look for another way through the BZA. We even spoke about this at last month's meeting. I don't see I don't see that avenue. I think he's looking for another way through the BCAA. Is like as far as a variance, a special exception for something, but he has hired an attorney um that represented him at the commissioner's meeting as well. It's an unfortunate situation really. It really is.

Yeah. I I'll be on vacation during next month's meeting. So, I'll just say this now and somebody can remember. But like the commissioners know that, you know, the comprehensive plan not being done holds up all this other stuff. But like that last month I feel like is a particularly good example of how our zoning ordinance is not supporting, you know, the real issues that businesses and residents like

Yeah. And I've had conversations separately with um Tim Clark and with Kevin Patrick basically saying we need to get the ball rolling on the comp plan. That way we can continue rolling on updating ordinances and doing the things that we need to do. we need to wait on the comp plan to do that. I think that at one point we had decided that we should because it was kind of the chicken and the egg laid out more clearly like especially with like zoning like that would have given us more of I don't know if Greasy Creek was like identified as an area where we want more commercial or

well the unfortunate thing is the company that we hired to do that research kind of picked the obvious obviously the state highways are going to be the best for general business that's yes but we also need to identify other opportunities that can be best case best use case you know what I mean and and plan for the housing shortage plan for you know whether that's multif family or whatever

but we have a lot of things that we can work on and I feel like as a board and if if we're going to be here even if it's once a month for a couple hours. I'd really like to to get some things ironed out and and effective like for the future and and not just say, "Hey, I was on the board for 8 years and nothing to show for it." Like I really would like to done.

We got the we got we got the definitions done. Um but I I I am excited and I wait in hopefully anticipation of having a more detailed comprehensive plan. I would ask that all of the members really take 30 minutes this week if that that's all you can spare and think about the problems that we we hear about every week or every month. The stuff that you you've heard people talk about that we've buted our heads on. There's nothing saying that we can't develop our own list of things that are most important to ask the commissioners to address like in the comp plan or whatever, but we can continue to do our own, hey, let's look at the the version that we have. How can we improve on it? How can we make it better? Like, let's not throw away the data that we have. And let's use the previous I know um Mr. Clark's mentioned a previous study several times. I've never seen that. I'd love to see. I mean,

I haven't seen it. It's all data that that can be used. Um, but boy, I'd really like to get some stuff get our comp plan and our ordinances. Yeah. So, we're not living in the 19. We're not running in circles, but we run it in a circle and we want them to update. More of a spiral, you know, like at least you're going somewhere. I don't think we really need telegraph office in the zoning ordinance any longer. Yeah, you guys may disagree. That's fine. I don't think we need it. There are a lot of very outdated things. Well, I think the plan, quite frankly, I think the plant that we put together was a pretty good plan. And uh I'm not comfortable with tail wagging the dog. We need to guard against that. Yeah.

Just because there's one or two that's not very happy with it doesn't mean there's anything really wrong with the plan. Could there be improvements? Probably. There can be improvements to everything. Um, one thing I think we probably should look at and one thing that I had problems with and always have had problems with, and this is probably my 15th year now going on planning commission work, not here, but here in other places, is going from residential to GB, general business, and what general business allows. That's a big door that's opened up that we can fix. And that's something that I think we probably might want to look at and try to readress that somewhat. Well, just like the town has various levels of business zoning.

Yeah, that I think that scares people and I can fully understand that. I appreciate that. Um, so I really think that's something we probably ought to revisit and look at as to how broad we really want to make that right and just as a case use from last month like it's two acres. It's flat. It's it's not in flood plane. It's not in flood plane. Like that's rare as h right? You know what I mean? Like I get what he's saying. Um and I I hate that there wasn't a way for us to make an exception or an allowance.

Although in the same breath, if that were the case, it would have been done decades ago with that property. If that property would have been if it were GB, it would have sold 10 times by now and for a lot more money. So it

and I've talked to Jim Schulz about adding another zoning district. I mean, this is probably a lot further in the future than any of us are probably going to be here, but basically like the town has a residential buffer, which is residents and businesses that aren't going to negatively impact the neighbors. Something like this might fit in there if it was more of like a residential business zone with additional not full GB, you know, allowances, specific uses that are allowed by right in right there's got to be a midpoint because it's either residential or it's any of those more than a home occupation but

not less than. Yeah. But we can we can develop that in the ordinance, right? Like we can we can we don't have to fit square pegs into round holes, right? We're we're a bunch of oddshaped holes in this county. Yeah. I think in the comp plan it was called the heritage district. Heritage Use District is Heritage Use District. Which all that means is they want mixed use with storefront and apartments above along major corridors. That's what every other town in the state has done.

I don't know that that's I'm not saying it's bad. I think mixed use has its place for sure, but I don't think anybody is going to be real excited about seeing, you know, three or four story strip type buildings going up along 46. So, well, in a perfect world, you'll have commercial development zones and um hopefully all your development, commercial business development will be directed into those locations if possible. Right now, every county is different and and Brown County certainly is. It's when you get into people that want to reszone into bring a business into areas that are completely enclosed or encapsulated with residents residential areas.

Sure. And I I'm a this county is I think what our company was trying to do was probably to direct us in that going with the major major highway corridors and stuff. I think that's one of the things that they will cause transportation and egress ingress and that type of thing. Um I think this is a perfect example. We all know what we're talking about.

Uh when you try to go in and everything's a square peg and all of a sudden somebody wants to put in a round peg. Uh that's pretty difficult a lot of times. But I can think of several of the petitioners over the last few years that were trying to go from R1 to GB and why they were trying to do it and if there were another allowance that weren't full availability of GB but had limitations still placed on it for a smallish business plan,

right? cuz I guarantee you the service industry, by that I mean anybody that you need to come fix something at all, it is very important to have locally because when you start calling companies out of Columbus or Bloomington or Indie, I've seen what they charge. Like it's

wow. I mean that would certainly help our local economy. I know. But, uh, you know, I I think that's that's something that needs to be looked at and addressed and and thought about intelligently. I I don't think anybody up here is on one side or another. Like, I don't think this is a this side or that side. I think it's, hey, let's let's have intelligent conversation, present good ideas, and then make a decision and move forward. Like, yeah, that's always good advice. And I think we did that in the initial development. Um, again, I'm I'm uh

I don't know if it's possible like to get some kind of feedback from the commissioner, you know what I mean? To have something in advance to consider or is it just the conversation that unfolds here in April? I've been working with Tim on and and I asked him kind of just point blank, do you want to scrap the whole thing and start over from scratch or do you think that there's something from plan A and plan B that we can use to make is there a plan B? The plan B is like our draft,

but he's mentioned a couple times that he'd had the redevelopment commission was working on a comprehensive plan. Um, I I think that the redevelop mission redevelopment commission can they can't really do that without your all's input. Well, and I'm not a like I'm not saying they could have drafted something, but then it can't go anywhere. Yeah. What they would put together, this is probably more for today, but I don't think it would probably meet statue requirements the way the law is written. They can have their own internal plan if they want to call it that, but we don't want two trains on the one same track heading in different directions. that that just doesn't make any sense. So kind of money

and I was going to say too I mean where they want to come up with their own plan completely and deep six this one where they going to get the money. I guess that's their problem. Yeah. Okay. So there everybody wants more public input. So that's something that Tim and I have been discussing back and forth. Um I didn't plan for that in our budget for this year. Bro, is cheap and so is potato salad and drinks and a fire station and that's you just say hog roast. That's I'm telling you. Well, the commissioners they have a lot they have access to more money, right, than ours. I mean, yeah, we ended up where we were because that was what we could afford to pay for like Exactly.

Yeah. Well, I'm glad it's happening because the point is it doesn't whatever their problem is, great. let's then how do we move forward because just sitting on it isn't solving anybody's problem. So and going through the right process you know not skipping one chunk to do something else but doing it the appropriate way so that we do come up with a final document that actually works. Yeah.

Well and that can be easily altered and changed with time like predetermined time. Like I I feel like that was one thing that we were missing in our comp plan is this needs to be revisited in x amount of days or years or whatever and it just needs to be a normal hey are we still good with where we're at on everything cuz all you have to do is vote and reapprove it. Like that's that's the easy part and if something needs changed or we see something else that comes up it's living and active. It's not just what we have now. Yeah.

And one one other thing tagging on you Andy would be not right way I went to okay let's divide the the plan in the third so we do we we look at look at it three different times in three meetings sections so that we're not so overwhelmed. Yeah. You know and and and you'll pay more deep attention to detail on that. you like, okay, I'm only focusing on this. And then then that works a lot easier than reading, you know, document like that.

And that's what I was about to say, too. It is honestly easier to get public input on a document that has been formed than just when it's just open to everything. There's nothing to give feedback. It's like overwhelming and it's not focused. And so even just to start the pro, you know, to Carol, okay, we have something. Give us feedback on this thing that exists, right? we can move on from there. But we always used to operate on the principle of don't tell me what you're going to do, show me what you did. Like I feel like we've been talking about this for years. I've literally been I realize it's been eight years that I've been involved with this board.

Chris was trying to get this started whenever I started here nine years ago. Yeah. So, just trying to start the process of the plan. I'm I'll hold public events. I'm I'll volunteer. Like, we'll do like I'm just saying like let's Yeah. The county fair is coming up, Tim. Make a move. Well, this meeting coming up on the 28th and is that I assume a public meeting? Yes. Okay. Yeah. It'll just be a joint session. So, like we don't have to ask for public comment. No. But if we just want to feel out, you know, hey, this is what they feel like should be changed or this is what you guys feel like should be changed or

so the the publication on the notification basically will just be the same as we always do. The only thing on the agenda will be discussions with the commissioners concerning the status of the existing compreh in the Democrat or have it posted in three locations. But I'll figure that part out. Okay. Okay. And I'll try to get some focus points to send you guys like when we send our regular board packets some focus points again not to overwhelm us. Yeah. Like keep It's easy to get overwhelmed when you're looking at 400 pages.

I will I'm sorry to miss it. I'm glad you got this on the books though, but I'll try and like get my comments together just whatever feedback and you can always watch on YouTube. I'll be in Mexico. I'm not watching the uh time. I'm not watching this. Watch your surroundings. Yeah. Make a motion to journ. I second it. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Thank you. 6:30. We haven't hit one of those in a long time. Not too bad. I was looking at the clock thinking thinking like you guys were kind enough to