Area Plan Commission (apc) - Regular Meeting

Are you ready, Kayla? No. Okay. Trying to be. We got new cords. And that is I saw some something flipped up there real quick and disappeared. And it's not coming up up here. No. Wait a minute. Mhm. Now, if it will stay there. See, I can't get it to here where I can read it. Okay.

Mhm. And my mouse won't go up there. How neat is this? You know how I feel about technology. See if I can get it off of a different one here. But I still can't get my mouse up there. Well, we'll go ahead and start and then keep playing with it in case you get lucky. Okay. Okay.

And make sure we turn our microphones on. You guys ready? Okay. Um, I call this meeting of the Brown County Area Planning Commission to order on, uh, February 24th, 2026 at 60:02 p.m. Roll call. Okay. Carol Boden present. Tim Allen here. Jane Gore here. Randy Jones here. Carrie Hams

here. Andy Boils was absent. And Kyle Decker absent.

Okay. Thank you. Um before we uh go on to election of officers, I wanted you to review the process of how this meeting runs um the director will present the petition when we get to that point and then the petitioner will be allowed to speak and add any additional information and we'll have five minutes to do that. Um then people who are both in for or at or opposed to the petition will have the opportunity to come up and speak at the podium. Anybody who speaks is going to be up at the podium. You're going to state your name. Um and you will have um three minutes to to put your uh uh notice in. um do not speak to each other in the in the um audience and do not um um realize everything that's coming communication wise whether it's the petitioner or people in the audience is all addressed to the board not to each other not to the petitioner it's addressed to the board this is the communication process um and I don't stick I don't like cut you off right at 30 minutes, but I give you a notice that you're you're coming up to your either your 3 minutes or your five minute time. When you come up to the podium, please state your name and comment whether you're for or against the petition. And uh like I said, all comments will be addressed to the board and only comments related to the position uh to petition will be accepted. Okay. And with that, uh, election of officers. Do I do I have a motion for the position

of president? I nominate Carol Bowen as president. I'll second that. Are you Are you interested? No, I'm just laughing about how fast you did that. She beat me too one time. Okay. Is there any other nominations for uh position? I'll move your nominations be closed. Okay. And with that roll call. Tim Allen. Yes. Jang Gore. Yes. Randy Jones. Yes. H. Yes. I guess I'll vote for myself, too. Okay. Oh, yeah. Next. Next, we have vice president.

Do I have a motion for vice president? Who is it currently? Randy. Yes. Yeah. I'll nominate Randy. Thank you. Second it. Um okay. Any other um uh person to nominate for vice president? I make a motion to close that and roll call. Okay. Jane Gore. Yes. Randy Jones. Yes. Hamus. Yes. Carol Bowen. Yes. Talon. Yes.

Okay. I make a motion. We need to make a motion on attorney and that would be Dave Schilling. Do I have a motion? I move that we uh well, first of all, Dave, are you willing to continue in your service to this county? Yes. Okay. Uh I'll move that we uh nominate Dave Schilling for legal counsel for the commission. Any second? I'll second it. Any other discussion? Roll call. Okay. Randy Jones, yes. Harry, yes. Bowen, yes. Yes. Jane,

yes. Yes. Okay, great. Motion carried. Thank you. And last but not least, secretary for the year. Do I have a motion? That's Danielle, right? Yeah, normally. I will also uh make a motion for Danielle. Do I have a second? I'll second it. Any further uh nominations? Okay, I'll close that. And bro, here. Yes. Bowen, yes. Men, yes. Jane Gore, yes. Randy Jones, yes.

Okay. Um we we still have two um two people who are up this year and they have the appointments haven't been made yet. And so um and both of them have to not be here tonight. We're waiting for the commissioners to complete their appointments. And with that, do I have a motion for approval of minutes from December 16th, 2025? I'll move to the minutes this morning. Do I have a second? I'll second it. Um, any discussion?

And with that roll call, yes. Carol Bowen, yes. Ten Allen, yes. Jane Gore, yes. Rain Jones, yes. Motion carries. We do not have any old business. So, uh, new business, Miss Kayla.

Okay. And we did get it to work. I don't know how we did it, but it is working. This is the staff report for Clark reszone docket number 26-RZ-01. Hearing date, February 24th, 2026. Request is to reszone 2.262 acres from primary residential R1 to general business GB. Petitioner and property owner Jesse Clark. Location 1335 Grezy Creek Road, Nashville is also known as Malo Endeavor's Minor Subdivision, lot number one. The property is located on the east side of the road in Washington Township, approximately 700 ft south of the intersection of Greasy Creek Road and Crramer Road, depending on how you want to what you want to call it. Zoning and current land use. The property is currently zoned primary residential R1 and two access accessory buildings exist. The property has a small amount of flood plane though most of the property and buildings are located outside the 1% annual chance flood area for the affected firm. General findings. One, the commissioner is requesting that the application for reszoning be considered a zoning map correction. He has outlined several reasons that he believes the property should be zoned commercially, including the current tax classification as well as previous business uses. Two, the petitioner per purchased the property in November of 2025 and immediately began operating his electrical business. The petitioner is requesting resoning approval to continue using the existing buildings as the base of operations for Clark Electrical Services. Three, prior to the petitioner purchasing the parcel, the previous property owner was running an illegal auto repair business from the existing barn in a residential district, which was in violation of the Brown County zoning ordinance. Staff was in

communication with the prior owner regarding the violation. Four, when the parcel was on the market for sale, the realtor and all potential potential buyers were informed of the property zoning and that a current violation existed on the parcel due to the zoning district. Five, if reszoning is successful, the business will be conducted in the two large accessory buildings existing on the property. The barn nearer the road measures 100 ft x 40 ft while the barn further east measures 60 ft x 40 ft. Six eight employees are currently employed by Clark Electrical Services consisting of three office employees and five field technicians and apprentices. Although the business is open 24/7 for the for customer emergencies, the office hours of operation are 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Monday through Friday. Seven. According to the Baron County zoning ordinance, general business districts are established to include areas that are appropriate to all kinds of businesses and services. Eight, a change to GV zoning would allow additional uses at the location, including residential, agricultural, light, industrial, and a variety of other business uses with and without the necessity of a special exception. Nine. Electricity is provided to the structures by South Central Indiana REMC. 10. Water service is provided by Brown County Water Utility Incorporated. 11. The structures themselves and the ingress and egress already exist. Some flood plane exists on the parcel near the road and does touch one building at one of the open bay garage areas. 12. Permit number 1476 was issued and approved as submitted on December 22nd, 2025 for a commercial driveway permit from the Brown County Highway Department.

13. An old septic system exists on the property. The petitioner was advised that if any changes are planned to the buildings, a new system would be required. The septic system specifications worksheet was reviewed by the Brown County Health Department on June 9th, 2025. The worksheet indicates that the soils are appropriate for installation of a system if the system is sign designed and built 1 foot above the flood line. 14. According to the official zoning maps within section A18, parcels fronting on Grezy Creek Road are zoned R1 primary residential and FP flood plane. Parcels running along Kramer Road are zoned R2 secondary residential. 15 approximately approximately a half mile north. The Schultz parcel was reszoned in 2023 from R2 to GB. Approximately a half mile south annexed into the town of Nashville and carrying business district 1, which is B1 zoning. The Brown County Highway Department and the Soil Waste and Recycling Center are located also in the TA town of Nashville limits zoned business district 3 B3 zoning exists the fairgrounds 16. The Brown County Comprehensive Plan under overall goals provides quote to consider the impact of changing land use development on adjoining land owners. 17. Supporting policy states that commercial development should have minimal impact on adjoining property, neighbors, or public roads. 18. Under elements that guide the plan, the desire to discourage economic decline and foster economic development are two sides of the same coin and both are important elements in guiding a comprehensive plan for Brown County. Of

the two, the desire to discourage economic decline is for is the more important for without it there will be too few residents to preserve anything. In this regard, existing economic activities such as farming, logging, arts and crafts of all sorts. Touristtoriented businesses, home maintenance businesses, etc. should be protected, encouraged, and accommodated as long as they remain compatible with the desire to preserve. For the same reason, the ability of residents to commute easily to jobs in neighboring counties and to operate mail-based, telephone based, and internetbased businesses in Brown County should be protected and where possible enhanced. IC 36-7-4-603 describes the criteria to be used for res review of zoning requests by the plan commission and the legislative bodies. Both shall pay reasonable regard to A the comprehensive plan, B the current conditions and the character of current structures and uses in each district, C the most desirable use for which the land in each district is adapted, D the conservation of property values throughout the jurisdiction and EU responsible development and growth. Summary. After a public hearing, the area plan commission is tasked with providing a recommendation to the Brown County Board of Commissioners. The recommendation may be positive, negative, or the desire to send no recommendation at all. After a recommendation by the plan commission is certified to the legislative body, which is the board of commissioners, they will then either adopt the zoning request in ordinance form or deny the zoning request during a public hearing. Here are some pictures looking south on Greasy Creek Road from the driveway. Looking north.

This is the snip from the DNR map. So, you can barely see the the pinkish here. If you can see my mouse, that is the additional um 0.2% flood plane. We do not regulate the 0.2. So, the blue is considered the flood fringe on this map. So, as you can see, it cuts just along the edge of that building there. And then of course this area here by the creek is um floodway. This is the site plan. So here's Greasy Creek Road over here on the left side. It's the first building that you see there and then the second building here. And that is the end of the report.

Thank you. Mhm. Any questions for Kayla? How about cards? Yeah.

Uh 19 were sent and 10 were returned. Okay. Um, at this time the petitioner can come up to the podium and um state your name and you've got 5 minutes to tell us any additional information that was not on the petition or any clarification.

Is there any way I can get a few more minutes? I've got a 20 minute presentation and I wasn't aware that in a PowerPoint. Have you ever watched any of the meetings here before? I'm sorry. Have you ever been to hear or watched any of the meetings before? I have not. I'm sorry, but that's the business standard of practice.

Okay. Um, so I' I've got a uh a PowerPoint together. Um, that's about 40 slides, so I'll try to go through them really, really quick. Um, most of the contents towards the end, so let me get going on this. Uh, go ahead, Kayla. Let's go here. Uh, my name is Jesse Clark. Uh, I'm a resident father and a neighbor, local employer. Uh, go ahead. But, um, um, I'm a licensed electrical contractor. We have, uh, uh, 400 customers, uh, residential customers in Brown County alone. Uh we work on several businesses uh in the downtown area and we also do work in uh uh Barthon County and Monroe County and we take on regional projects as well uh outside of uh those counties. Uh my kids grew up here uh from elementary to high school. Uh been in all sorts of school programs, sports, 4. Go ahead. Um,

I'm trying to keep up with you.

Yeah, I'm trying to go fast. Go ahead. Um, again, uh, go ahead. Uh, there's some of the restaurants that, uh, we service. Uh, there's several that you may notice, uh, frequent. Um, go ahead. Uh, behind, uh, we work with lo local builders in the area. Um, let me uh uh when we work with local uh trades that support local construction, our labor income stays uh in the county. Projects move more smoothly and reliable uh and communication and accountability uh remain direct. Our shop location allows us to stay organized, dependable for our customers, our builders uh all without increasing the intensity of the area. Uh go ahead. uh we on uh would work with out out of county buildings uh uh builders and uh take on those regional projects. Uh again, those uh those those dollars are coming back into Brown County. Um so it's a nice conversation isn't just about the zoning alignment. It's about uh retaining local services, jobs, and keeping money coming back into the county. um uh some of the projects that we've done regionally uh really help us through slow periods. Uh we're helping uh deer run uh on an initiative to help light the baseball fields. Uh part of our giving back to the community. Um whether we get the job or not, you know, it's uh that's regardless uh we're just trying to help get something moving forward there, help the kids see when they play their games. Um over the last couple years, we've given out more than $30,000 to uh uh the local community in in ways of scholarships, uh athletics, the parks departments, uh glass slipper event, uh and discount

labor rates for uh for for those organizations that uh that are people here in Brown County from mentally, spiritually, and physical aspects. Um go ahead. uh on our local employment. This is important one for me. Uh uh including myself, we we have nine people. Uh seven of the employees live right here in Brown County. Um uh we also have a uh an apprentice uh who's doing the high school co-op pathway program, school to work. Um in addition to the nine, uh these aren't temporary jobs. They're they're real opportunities in the skilled trades. We have veterans who have served in the Navy and the Army, a widow who rebuilt her life and supporting herself, a single father working hard to support his daughter. We have employees excited about buying her first home here in Brown County. And we have uh an employee who transitioned uh from the service food service industry when a local restaurant closed. Um we have young employees starting out in life and others raising their family. Um they're eager to grow and learn and experience what I've been blessed to in my life that uh providing for their families and raising families here in Brown County. Uh they're real people and real families and the real lives being supported right here at home. Last year our payroll exceeded 340,000 with the gross activity of approximately 1.2 million. This year with current staff we project 450,000 in payroll. Our our general our generated payroll isn't abstract impact. It goes directly into local households. It becomes mortgage payments, rent, groceries, fuel, child care, school activities, and money spent at local businesses and local income tax. That's meaningful income staying right here in Brown County. Uh

excuse me. Can you come to wrapping up, please?

Yeah. Yes, I I can. Um uh our growth does not uh affect the impact of the area. Uh you'll notice uh on some of the slides if you can click forward uh keep flipping this how the property looks today. Um keep flipping. I want you to notice the double yellow line on Grecy Creek Road. The road set up for two-way steady traffic. Uh we're not making an impact on the road. Uh there's there's there's not much around. I want you to notice all the junk around back. We cleaned that all up. Uh there were semi-trailers and scrap RVs. Uh just a bunch of crud out there that we got rid of and we're trying to do our best to make the property clean. I did that on a computer. It looks long and stretched out. It's building's not changing the structure. We're just trying to give a facelift and reflect our pride of ownership. U keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Please. Please. Uh we recycle. It's very important to us. Uh our our materials are stored properly. Uh we have batteries that we recycle from generators and and used oil from generators changes take it up to Brown County Tire for recycling. Um we have uh uh uh guard rails, guys. Uh I know that uh some people are uh are worried about you know the change in impact um uh why this location works and and what we can do better is to put put some uh tools in place that you know make sure that we're keeping the site clean and that we're that we're uh being good stewards to the land and and good neighbors. Um we leave at uh 5 5:30, you know, we're coming in at 8. Um, this is really hard for me because I'm trying to support nine people's annual income in 5 minutes. Uh,

uh, and be respectful to our neighbors. Uh, uh, one of my neighbors, uh, uh, let me know that, you know, they're happy we're cleaning up the junk and, uh, they're happy that, uh, you know, we moved in. Their concern was that uh that uh you know what what would happen if I moved out and who would come in and that's a good uh it's a good point and and having the guard rails in place uh helps protect uh you know that uh just that um um uh of of all of the 19 people that got legal notices. Uh there's one house that falls within 600 foot building to building range. All the other properties are from building to building or are our our three football field lengths away or better. Um we uh we got field and forest blocking uh that h half of those 18 homes are on a different road al together up in Artist Drive. Um not not affected by the road at all. uh in in in what we do. Um uh what else uh can I say? Uh the town of Nashville put an offer in on the place when I did uh reflecting the the municipal uh intent. Um we had uh this business is uh the buildings have been businesses for over 25 years from from uh from septic and excavation work to concrete work to uh recently the scrap guy and uh and uh that was used for uh furnisher store uh storage from a guy here in town. Uh a construction company stored their uh stuff in there and and was working out of it. Um

and and and uh again uh within less than half a mile as Kayla stated um the uh uh the highway department's right there. Uh there's a local trash service uh company. There was another electrical company on the road before he retired. It was well respected uh just operating less than a half a mile north um for years. Um uh again, uh we bring a lot of economic impact to the county in a positive way. Um we're we're we're using the CRC for for uh apprentices, uh teaching classes down there. We're giving back to the community and we're doing our best uh to to to better Brown County and and and live our lives here. Uh, thank you for your time. And again, I'm sorry I could go through the whole thing, but if anybody would like a copy of it all, I I'm happy to make a copy and and I'm sorry uh and and hand it out uh to anybody who who wants one. My phone number is uh on the website cespowerpros.com. Uh you check us out and give me a call and I'll send you whatever you like to know. And that that's all I got. Uh, is that okay?

Thank you. Thank you, guys. Is this a time we could ask questions to him? I'm sorry. What? This is a Is this a time we could ask questions? Damn. But wait a minute, wait a minute. Do we? Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. Go ahead, J. Are your employees actually employees or some contractors?

Uh, all my employees are actual employees. Uh, we've got uh two uh uh journeymen. Uh we've got uh three apprentices. We've got uh two part-time administrative person uh personnel. We have a creative uh uh directors that that helps with social media and and things and and then myself. And then we have a co-op student. Uh we do uh subcontract uh some work. Uh we use uh local businesses when we do that. Uh uh we had a a local excavating company do a project with us up in Indianapolis. Uh it was like 35,000 uh to them just to help us get the and like I said, we're trying to use local local labor and local money keep the money coming back into the county.

One other question. When before you bought this property, where did you operate out of?

Uh before I bought the property, it's a direct question. I was operating out of a uh a barn that I uh was renting from a residential customer uh of mine um down the road uh off of uh uh uh Battle Branch Road. Uh contractors like us, it's hard to find anything available that's within zoning. I I know local guys, and I'm not going to say any names, they're working out of storage sheds. They're they're working out of uh their own houses. And uh it's hard to it's hard to grow in Brown County with and have the space we need to do it uh that's not infringing on a downtown area where where uh you know we don't want to interfere with the tourism and and and most most general business uh zonings in the county are set up for uh for retail and we're not retail you know we're not we don't have foot traffic and uh uh yeah those those uh those uh those spaces are are are limited for us as contractors.

Thank you. Any other questions?

Yeah, Mr. Clark, I have a question for you. Um are you proposing any kind of storage outside or all the storage of equipment and vehicles will be inside the buildings? So, I've got uh uh three service vans that park out front and I've got a cargo trailer and uh I've got my personal camper which I can move off the property if I need to, but uh uh those are the main and I got a work truck used for hauling our trailers. Most of our equipment stored inside. Uh I'm open to any suggestions. If I need to park the vehicles around back uh so they're not seen from the road, we're happy to do so. Uh uh right now we we try to keep things around the back of the building. Our employees park off to the right. The three service vans are in the front. Um uh like I said, there's very little work going on at the site. Uh we get in our trucks in the morning, we leave and we come back at the end of the day. I'll be there doing electrical bids or or taking calls and uh the admin uh uh people will be doing payroll and taking calls and setting up work orders and things like that. Uh sometimes they're not there at all like work from home some days. Um but uh but yeah, it's uh during the day uh you know we do get deliveries uh we're open to having select delivery days. Uh Cintas comes on Monday and drops off our uniforms. Uh right now I'm staging for a job. So I had a few more deliveries come in. Uh we're doing a a sewers facility in Indianapolis. All those dollars are coming back to the county. Um so your most of your work is going to be offsite.

Absolutely. Service based business. It's just like you actually go to the customer to do the service work and that type of thing. Correct.

You're not bringing anything back to this location for repair or service. Uh, no. No. Unless it's like a a lamp that a customer would like repaired. Uh, sometimes we work on antique lamps for for people in the county. But, uh, other than that, uh, you know, we're we're out uh at at customers homes, uh, doing room additions, generator installs, troubleshooting, uh, why why the light doesn't work kind of thing. And we're working with local builders on their projects. Uh we do have material stage on site so we have to load up our trucks in the morning and head out unload at the end of the day. Can I have one more question?

Sure. I think one more. When you have deliveries of of materials and that type of thing, what kind of vehicles are delivered? Are they delivered? Semiis or smaller trucks or

Yes. Uh sometimes uh uh bigger box trucks come uh when when I order from the local supply houses uh that comes on a little Sprinter van. Uh when I ordered for the big jobs, they've been coming in and uh here lately on on pit Ohio trucks which are kind of bigger. Uh the regular for the road cuz I was asked that question. uh uh you know the garbage trucks go up and down the road and and all the you know town vehicles. Um but yeah, they do come in and uh before I was having them drop off stuff over Fair Hardware and paying $20 for drop off. I'm happy to continue doing that uh if that's what it takes to keep the bigger trucks off. Again, uh those are few and and and and far between. Right now, we're staging for a job. Uh those uh we got 90% of the stuff we need for it. So, there's not going to be any more bigger trucks uh uh for a while, but we try to take on one bigger project at a time while we're while we're doing the service calls and and and such. I I know it's been uh from getting all the crap out from the time I'm sorry all the stuff off the property from the time we bought it and and the end of last year to to now it's it's been a lot of movement on the site. Uh was trying to get that stuff out of here. just taking a lot of time and money and and uh the weather didn't help, but it was it was uh if anybody's roing by there, it was it was pretty rough shape. We're doing what we can to to make it better.

I have some questions for Kayla and Dave for right now. Um, Kayla or Dave, what like as far as in like the zoning the use table, what would this kind of business like where would that fall in the table as far as like allowable cuz I just I don't know that I see anything spec you know it's not so it wouldn't in my opinion it would not fall under the professional office which I think Jesse and I talked about uh let me get my ordinance pulled up here if this thing's going to be nice to me.

Yeah, I just know to his point like this is some contractors have a lot more big equipment and outdoor storage than this, but this is definitely something that people encounter where it's yes, it's trucks coming to a location to start, but it's not big jobs happening. It's not a lot of storage. Mhm. It just, you know, I didn't know where we were kind of slotting it. I agree with you as far as how professional office is defined. It's not necessarily that, but because it says where did I just read that? I'm just trying to, you know, understand the

um if you don't mind that we do uh as far as the office side of things, uh we do do our payroll there, our scheduling, right? Yeah, we we uh we do our work orders there. Uh we we have our safety meetings in the morning. Uh and we talk about our plan. Yeah. I'm just looking I don't know. I'm sure in this process you maybe looked at the zoning ordinance more than you ever wanted to. Yeah. And and I don't know much about it. Uh um well it just so there's like a use table that says where things are allowed, when special exceptions are allowed, and there's like definitions that say what those things are. So like for example, so I just went under sorry go ahead.

Well, I just going to share kind professional office the building or establishment for the provision of professional services typically provided by but not limited to doctors, lawyers, architects, financial adviserss, stock brokers and engineers. Um but that use is allowed in like an R2 with a special exception. So that's kind of why I was asking where it so I just but I agree. It doesn't. Goodness gracious. May I say something else? Business uses general business. So that is on if I can find the page number here. 73 of the ordinance. Yeah. I mean, I guess that seems like the most likely catch all

appropriate of what's in the ordinance currently. It just I'm just thinking about how this is an unfortunate like gray area kind of not clearly defined. and the petitioner and I spoke about that too at length.

We're open to any any uh uh suggestions or zoning that you guys come up with um with things we can operate uh here. It's a great location and it fits our long-term growth without having to expand on the property or expand the buildings. Um we fit into the comprehensive plan pretty well, I feel. And uh uh we're retaining the jobs. Uh uh like I said, uh the reasoning to general business is what I feel is like our direct path. Uh but again, we're open to any suggestions or or what what we respect the board's judgment. Um evaluation.

To that note, Dave, what you mean? you know, the petitioners talked about like being open to restrictions or guard rails or whatever, but and I know there's some ability for us to make that, you know, make certain recommendations, but in general, you want to make if you're going to recommend a RESO and you want to be recommending it with like the acceptance of all the implications of that, right? I mean what realistically would even be guard rails that and not even realistic you know just like in practice or how we should be looking at a reason.

Yeah. I mean you can certainly put conditions on there that would address the types of concerns any uh any impacts this use might have on neighboring uses. And some of those uh some of those types of conditions might be suggested by public comment. Yeah, it's it's given. But yeah, I know like for I'm sure we'll hear from the crowd like my concern with GB is it's not this particular use. It's the example. It's the next next the next if we already can look back at three different business uses

incorrectly on this property before now. It's like that's that's the um the rub with a GB reszone is that it may you may have every intention of holding on to it for the foreseeable future, but GB just opens up a lot more.

Some of the guard rails that that I I thought of uh and were happy and already doing is is daytime business hours um any landscaping that suggested to blend in better. Um, we don't need a sign out front. Uh, we don't need a light a sign. We don't need one on the building. Uh, we know who who we are and what we're doing and our customers know who to call. Um, uh, we can limit delivery days, you know, one one or two days a week. Um, I can park the vehicles around back. Um, we we tend to to to fix up the exterior, make it look better. Um uh this is this, you know, this is where we want our long-term growth to be. We we don't want to uh have have to try to find another place. It's it's a long time to find that in our budget and and what's around here and we don't want to relocate outside the county. We really don't.

Yeah. Yeah. I definitely understand the difficulty in finding a suitable property. Uh, one more question, Dave and Kayla. Um, I know, you know, I understand for something like this like to go for the reason is the most straightforward and like least complicated maybe option, but can you refresh like what is the process or what's the suitability of something like a PUB that allows for different zoning uses but is a lot more like constrained? uh that the PUV is designed to be used for multiple uses on the site, sometimes by multiple owners.

Okay. So, it's it's a little different. Well, I mean, but it could be like that the existing structures in the parking lot are allowed this GB use. And I think it then defines like the structures, but it could say like the remaining two acres remained R1 or R2 or whatever. I mean, but I get that it's normally more complicated like zoning patchworks, but are you saying like it's really not appropriate for this type of thing at all? Yeah, I think I think the definition in our in our code for a PD, I don't think that would fit. Okay. Um,

that's the way that I understand it, too, is it's more of like a mixed use. You know, you've got retail and then maybe a short-term rental and then Okay. something like that. Um I'm looking at and to uh car was that all you had? Yeah, that is all I have. Okay. For now. Well, to dovtail into what you were saying, I don't think we have anything right now under general business for either operational standards or or design standards to is that just for industrial design or I'm sorry again I don't think we have any design standards or operational standards for general business. I think that only applies to industrial sites, doesn't it? In our

Yeah, there's no landscape buffering um design. Well, no sale, no no future dusting issues, that type of thing. Okay. I didn't think there was. I wasn't sure about that. But Kayla, general business is a pretty wide category. It is. And we I mean if we talk about this we could restrict the use you could to one or two items in the zoning. Correct. Is that right? Um so we can place conditions. Can we limit the use?

Yes. you could accept a commitment from the owner that uh if it is uh reszoned it would only be used for this use that use whatever but that then gets recorded and follows the sale. Yes. And that's like permitted as far you know I know sometimes there's like weird issues in like case law of like well you weren't really allowed to tell me I could you gave me the permission now you can't tell me I can't do all the things that that permission entails. So you're saying that that though is

generally accepted. Yeah, you can ex the planning commission and the commissioners can accept the commitments uh and uh to limit that use, but it would run with the land. Mhm. So, it's a deed restriction. It's a recorded restriction on the deed. Well, and you could you could put it on the deed if you wanted, but it's typically with the ordinance. Well, it would just be recorded through us. So typically what we do is like the ordinance that is prepared for the commissioners, it would be on that ordinance. So then it would go onto the zoning maps as well, it would be recorded.

Is that a binding ordinance? Is that something that the commissioners would have to if found to be in violation? I guess what I'm asking is who is the actually policing of that? um that can be spelled out in the commitments. And so generally um if you recommend that commitments be uh accepted, you know, spell out what those are and then the applicant can prepare those u before they this matter is presented to the commissioners. And then when you say like defining an allowed use, is that word use tied to the zoning table? Like it has to be a use that's in there or it's it could be any use. It could be electrical service provider even though that's not listed in the zoning or you know in our ordinance as a use

like like a service based business. You know what I'm saying? like does it have to be tied to some definition of the ordinance or we could be more minute than that? Yeah, I think I think it's it's something that is offered by the the land owner. So, they're placing the limitation on their property. Um, so I think they could go as far as they want. Um, okay. So I want to make sure I understand this on a reszone. We can do sight specific restrictions or sight specific um conditions.

I I think you would accept a commitment for that uh to as far as use, but if you're talking about conditions like hours of operation and so forth, those can be done as a condition or accepted as a commitment. accepted as a commitment from the petitioner. Correct. Which recorded and binding on subsequent property.

Um one thing that we do offer is uh uh we do offer emergency repairs to our customers. Um very frequently uh you know when there storms we'll get calls uh to restore power to make sure something's safe. uh when no staffing, you know, uh we will come and get a van and go out at night. Uh but most of the time it's just to make sure it's safe. We're not uh we're not opening the doors and gathering a bunch of stuff. We're making sure that they're safe so we can do the repair for tomorrow. That kind of kind of thing. Some some some of our residents and customers have unimportant medical equipment they have to have running. And so I might grab a generator, get their house, you know, get get their priority circuits uh running. Um, one thing I did really well like to say uh is that uh uh the a few years ago uh the whole property got uh zoned to uh uh like a subdivision or or whatnot. uh that from what I can see on the property boundaries and lines, there's only a place to maybe build a house on the property that I own and maybe another house uh uh between uh my neighbors and another neighbor. I don't see where where there's a subdivision going in. Um I said uh uh if if uh if if a house is something that needs to be put on there uh to operate, you know, uh you know, when find the money, we're open to that idea as well to to to provide some affordable housing. Um but again, I just want to run my business and and support our our employees and and support the community. I I I said with with that breakdown that

happened a few years ago, I I don't see many places for for houses to come in unless unless those are being reszone to have more more than one or two houses. Can I clarify that? So that was a minor subdivision. So it was just this lot and then the one other lot. Both of them were going to be just under the 3 acre minimum. So, yes, it's considered a minor subdivision, but as you guys know, a minor subdivision doesn't mean what subdivision sounds like. Where's the other lot? Lot is it lot two then?

Yes. Uh lot two is directly to the east. If I can get my map pulled back up, I will show you. I mean, we're quiet and we're respectful and we operate during the day. Well, just to the east is it's behind it. Does that have Where's the road frontage? Do it. They both have a significant amount of road frontage there on Greezy Creek. So, and I can turn around the map to show it's it's just not coming up there. I'm sorry everybody.

So, this is the part here and then so it's where the the house is. I meant to say south. South. Okay. Yeah. Where the house is directly to the south. Okay. If I would have said the right directional that one. Yeah. Okay. I had two comments or questions.

First one is did you did you check with the planning commission before you bought the property? So, uh, when I brought the bought the property, uh, uh, I was in picking up permits and I said, "Hey, I'm thinking about buying this." And I said, "Hey, it's on the residential, just so you know." And, uh, uh, and and the building department is ones that told me that uh that uh uh there was a person that uh was was getting in some trouble for being there doing their their junk car business and stuff. Uh, I didn't get that information from from from the realtors. I knew it was zoned. The real make sure I knew it was zoned residential. I told her that, you know, I was plan on operating the business. And with the with the building's long history, I knew that it's always been businesses and that uh uh the town of Nashville officially put in an offer to buy the same lot for me municipal type use. So, I thought, well, I wouldn't have any issues. But that has nothing to do with the current designation of that property.

Correct. I forgetting about the town of Nashville because they're a governmental entity and that becomes a whole different ballpark. Right. Um my one problem here. The other problem is is that apparently I read somewhere in here and I can't find it that the assessor assessed the property as general business which they did not check with zoning. So there's a problem there. Nobody ever checked the zoning here. Yeah. Commercial on it and the assessor had no right to do that. They only could do it on what the actual assessment is, whatever's listed here. So, that's a problem I see and I just want to make sure I got that out publicly because that's

like the tax card says it was like business. Uh but but yeah, I knew it was owned residential when I when I bought it uh with with intent to to uh you know, operate uh the business uh whether had to go through resoning or we could just be there uh based based on the history of the place and the suitability for us. Okay. Does the board have any more questions? I do. Just one more before we move on. Mr. Clark, are you operating out of there now? I am. You are. And you've been operating out of there for about how long?

Um, we uh uh moved in uh and started operating uh uh bought it in November. It was probably uh the the first or second week of December is when we when moved in and and uh the majority of our stuff and uh started clearing the other stuff out. Uh we had a lot of supplies we take back and forth from B ranch to here. Um but uh but yeah, I I I've been operating out there since uh middle of December for for sure. Um, and you know, uh, we're we're here tonight to to follow the rules and and and, uh, and establish some that that would allow us to to operate on with that. Thank you. Um, at this time, have a seat. At this time, um, anybody that wish to speak on behalf of the petition, you have the opportunity to come up to the podium. Please state your name. You have three minutes.

What did you say? Opposition or in support of? In support of Oh. Oh, okay. Hi. Is this on? Yeah. Okay. So, I'm You are

I am Jim Schultz. Uh I'm the Schultz general of business on Greasy Creek. Uh that happened a couple years ago. Um one of the things that's gone on in Brown County forever is that uh people without zoning, predating zoning, have used parcels for business. And on Greasy Creek, the parcel in question has been used as a contractor's location for at least 60 years. And so, um, the Rens, Jack Rarden, uh, was the one who lived there and then he passed on his business to his son Tim. And Tim continued with his business there. and there was dump trucks and there was uh various uh pieces of equipment there on a regular basis. Um so it has that longtime use going on. And then um it the thing that bothers me and I I I wrote a different um uh chapter to to um the zoning trying to cover this fringe area when we went through this the last time. And I think I called it like a RBA or something,

I think. So, yeah. And and what I was trying to do in that is somehow we've got to recognize that all of Brown County cannot be gentrified. Okay? It's not possible. There's not enough to envelop land that you can hide service businesses. We were successful in Greasy Creek running a business for 45 years. We had two in two inside employees and as many as 20 outside employees. Got one minute.

Okay. Um, you know, going back to the Greasy Creek thing from the south there, you've got uh the highway garage, you got the recycling center surplus, you got the forage fairgrounds, you got Andy's old storage barns and whatnot that were always part of of business on Greasy Creek. Um, you, as previously stated, you have the um uh spicers and and all that going on. So, um, oh, and on the traffic on Brown County, it's already getting semis that aren't going to this place because they go by Starhouse on a regular basis. It's getting dump trucks, it's getting box trucks, you know, it's a throughway, people hauling equipment. Um, oh, and the with conditions or however you want to state it. That's the way that's how ours went through with conditions. You could say, I want it landscaped like this. I want So, um, I would encourage you to impro uh approve this. And I think it's necessary for a healthy Brown County to have be able to have tidy businesses tucked into the community.

Thank you.

And I'm going to go to Ohio. Hello, I'm Julie Gabriel and uh on the fly I've driven up and down Grether Creek for so very 30 some odd years and um I agree with that there has been b businesses there for a long time and everything Jim just said just made sense but also recently since they've been at this property it's already improved Um, I also the semis going up and down the road. It is frequent, but I was thinking of ambulances and the fire truck access using Greasy Creek. So, that road just got repaved I don't know how many years ago for the access for everything that we just brought up. And also, um, there's homes on the west side of the road that I would consider condemnable. So I say this, the looks already the looks are already better than before. I love the term conditions. Put custom conditions on. And it doesn't have to be just about landscaping. You know, there could be conditions, you know, to build a garage in the back to put things in. But when when we're talking about a business, it's not an industry. It's not a factory. They're not going to make socks. It's not going to be a sawmill where there's going to be massive amounts of trucks and hauling and business equipment. Um, I guess that's what I'm saying. It's not like this is a request to become an industrial factory. This is just simply an electrical contractor that's providing labor and taxes to this government.

Hey, the cuckoo clock is going off. Um, what I'm trying to say is I think this is great for Brown County and that's all I have to say.

Thank you, ma'am. Next candidate. Hello, I'm Penny Scrogggins. I did write a letter of support for this and I hope you all have it in your packet. I think everything's been covered that the points I made in that. Um I I think you're on to something when whenever you say let's go ahead and zone it general business but put conditions on it or is there such a way like you do tourist homes where you can leave it residential but allow an exception for Jesse to operate his business? I don't know. Is that a possibility? I mean that seems like it would solve all the problems. I think everybody wants the property to look better that lives around there. How why wouldn't they? Um, and it has been historically used as a business. So, that's all I have to say.

Thank you, ma'am. Anybody else? Yep.

I'm Victor Bongard. live in town and in the county. Um, I'm a friend of Jesse's and I learned about his interest in this property before he bought it. I rolled up there just to see what it was like because I have an interest in real estate myself. Um, and I I took a look and saw that it was very clearly used as Jim Schul said tonight as a business for many, many years. I didn't 60 doesn't surprise me at all. Among other things that were on the property were an enormous derelict semi-trail um probably 40 or 50 years old. Other bits of equipment that at one time might have cost thousands of dollars but now we're just rusting junk. Um I rolled up past there recently and that is all removed. You see that overhead with the picture just a big clear space in the back and that was scrub that was uh you know in fact from a from a real estate a former real estate lawyer perspective pretty alarming pile of asphalt things like that. Um so it's very clear it had an industrial use at some point or heavier um commercial use. Um now the propertyy's clear looks great. It's got the great access and but it was mentioned 7/10 of a mile from Kramer Kramer road but the more relevant fact is it's.5 miles as was mentioned later in the presentation to uh Main Street and and near the recycling facility. So it's a great location for a commercial business always used that way. Um, I think Jesse and his business hit all the points of the comprehensive plan, not only preventing decline, and if you recognize him and you haven't met him before, he was on the cover of the newspaper just a couple of months ago handing out scholarships at the school. He's a fantastic resident and community leader. Okay. Um, and also of course economic development. I met some of the people here. I see Demetrius. I see Branson. I met them. They're professionals because they've come to property that I own. Jesse is not just and master electrician. We're lucky to

have him in the county. He he's very modest, right? Worked for Lily, worked for IU as doing the real heavy duty stuff, the sort. We just don't get many people like that in the county to stay here. And so he's training people to be electricians at his standard. And I've had him do work and it's fantastic. We're just lucky to have this business and I'd love to keep it here. Thank you.

Thank you, Victor. Dex Brent Smith, born here, raised here. You guys heard it many times. Full disclosure, I have family members that were born and I have met um good people. They care about Brown County. Obviously, I'm in support. When I look at it and I'm hearing all the businesses and seeing all the businesses that are run out of homes, which we're saying we're not supposed to be doing, we get an opportunity to turn a place that's already looked commercial for so long. Go ahead and let it look better because he does care about what it looks like. He's going to fix it up, make it better than what we've seen the last several years. And we're not forcing him to find a loophole in the zoning or to just hide it like so many people already are. We're giving it a the opportunity for a company to to work out in the open legally, which a lot are not. So, I'm for we're used to it being commercial or or looking commercial. And even if you turn it residential, unless you get somebody who's really wealthy to buy that, those buildings stay. They're worth too much to tear down. So, they're still going to be there. And you've all been past the residential that have 20 cars in the yard. It could look worse then than what it would as a business. Maggie.

Thank you, sir.

Anyone else? My name is Demetrius Anderson. Um, I'll keep this short. Uh, I was born and raised in southen Indiana. Went down to IU in 2000. That's the first time I ever heard of a Brown County. Me and my me and my friends, we have plenty of jokes about it. Uh, never did I thought I would be leaving leaving in Brown County until me and my wife moved back to Indiana about a year ago. Um, yeah, it's it's it's it's not what I I thought it was going to be. It's actually exceeded my expectations. You know, it's because of people people here uh people like Jesse, you know, uh got me to change my career path. I, you know, was a an apprentice there and I started doing um fulltime uh January of last year. Been went through the CRC to get my knowledge up and getting hands-on experience and it's been a completely fascinating journey and I never thought it was happen in Nashville, Indiana and here I am. And yeah, it's it's it's one of those things where you have an idea of a place and then you actually go to the place and you find out that's not exactly what you thought it was. And I would like to continue staying here and as an employee it will be a lot easier if I can uh work here and live here. Thank you.

Thank you, Sarah. Anyone else in favor?

I guess I'm Hi, I'm Denise Hancock. I'm the person at Valley Branch Grove that rented my big barn to Jesse. Um, he did electrical work for me and he was didn't have any place to store his stuff and we had this big garage that wasn't being used. We let him use it for about nine months and he's very respectful. He if there's anything that you don't like that they're doing, all you got to do is talk to him and he'll take care of it. He kept everything clean. Um they were there 8 to 5. Um he does a lot of support for the county. He supports the schools with uh sponsorships for the sports teams. He does the scholarships. Um he's just a really good guy and he wants to give back to the county and I'd really hate for him to have to move to Columbus or Bloomington because we couldn't get this done for him. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else? Okay. Anybody in opposition? Before we start opposition, can we do a quick bathroom break? Absolutely. We're taking a quick Thank you. We're taking a little break. Don't Don't get in our way. We're

Okay, I'm going to start up this meeting again, please. like this is not um we're going to start with um anybody in opposition of the petition.

Good evening. My name is Dan Seir. I'm an attorney with Pagnelli Law Group. I represent Debbie Rogers. She's a longtime Brown County resident at 1189 Creepy Creek Road. and I'm here tonight as your representative to oppose the reszoning of 1335 Greasy Creek Road from R1 residential to general business. The case is simple. A man bought a residential property. He was told it was residential. He was told a zoning violation already existed. He bought it anyway. He started a commercial business there immediately and is now asking this board to make that okay. That's not how it works. We support what the countyy's own staff report tells us. We don't need to argue about the character of Greasy Creek Road. Item 14 of the staff report settles it. Every parcel fronting Greasy Creek Road is zoned R1, primary residential or flood plane. Everyone except the Schultz property. Item four settles something else. When this property was listed for sale, the realtor and every potential buyer, including Mr. Clark, was told the property was owned residential and that a current violation existed. He knew he bought it. He started operating. Now he's there. Three problems. First, this is spot zoning. One parcel surrounded on all sides by residential. The county's own map says every neighbor on this road is R1 or flood plan. Clark is asking for one commercial carveout in the middle of that. The comprehensive plan calls for protecting quote protecting the integrity and stability of existing residential areas from encroachment by incompatible uses. That's page eight of the 2011 uh count plan. This is that

encroachment. Second, general business means more than Clark Electrical. The staff report is clear. A GB designation opens this parcel to all kinds of businesses, services, light, and industrial uses, and other commercial activity with and without a special exception. This board wouldn't just be approving an electrical contractor. It would be permanently reszoning a residential parcel to general business with no control over what the next owner does with it or him as he grows. Third, the impact is already not minimal and Clark's own photos prove it. The comprehensive plan requires that commercial development have minimal impact on adjoining property, neighbors, and public roads. Look at the photographs Clark submitted with his own application. marked commercial trucks, multiple vehicles, eight employees, daily traffic, around the clock emergency availability, a commercial driveway permit pulled in December 2025 before this board had approved anything. That's the impact before approval. It doesn't get smaller after 40 or more neighbors signed a petition against this. That's not a minimal impact. That's the community telling this board exactly what the comprehensive plan requires it to hear. So, in conclusion, Debbie Rogers and her neighbors aren't against Jesse Clark personally. They're not against his business. What they're against is a commercial operation running without permission in a residential district on a road where every other property owner had followed the rules. Clark was told about the violation before he signed the closing documents and chose to proceed. the comprehensive plan, the zoning map, and item 14 of the county's own staff report all point in the same direction. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Okay. Anyone else? Hi, I'm Debbie Rogers. My family owned this property in the late they bought it in the late 1960s. So for 60 years, I'm very familiar with this property. I'm very familiar with every other person who called themselves an owner. I guess I'm not I've been told that some of them didn't own the property um but used the property. Um the last um owner trashed it after I complained to Kayla, after uh Brandon Harris complained to Kayla who lives on up on the hill behind that property in uh Tim Rarden's old home. um many times and when a investigation was finally done, there were 22 cars on that property. There was a semi-tra that had belonged to Malows when they ran a concrete company and I was told that he had to use that semi to um to move his father's office from town. Well, his father's office wasn't quite that big, but that semi-tra stayed there for 3 years for the last um and and I I lived 500 ft from Ron Bishop's home, which is the second

the second um parcel in that subdivision. So Ron Bishop also hears every single noise that goes on, sees every single thing that goes on. And my biggest concern right now is I haven't heard from any of these people that there's any concern about the residents. the residents. There are 48 signatures with addresses on that petition. And um thanks to um to Kenny Hammond, we got that done in a short period of time and he was amazing. Um, many of the neighbors are here tonight and um, I think you need to hear from the neighbors. I am opposing general business zoning for any property on in a residential neighborhood. I think that general business belongs on a highway, not in a county road. In the last two years, there have been more semis than I have seen in 50 years on that road. There is another property on at 370 Precinct Creek that calls itself a mobile vehicle semi repair business. And I didn't know for quite a long time where the semis were coming from, but now I do. This opens it up for that property at 1335 to be a lot of things to build. He mentioned building more houses. I've

heard from a neighbor he wants this storefront which would be bring customers to that property. Need to wrap it up, ma'am. Okay, I'm going to hand it over to someone else who knows about um properties adjacent to Greasy Creek that we're still dealing with 7 years later with the same complaints we had in 2017. Thank you. Next, Lance. Well, thanks for the introduction. You're welcome.

Hey, my my name is Lance Miller and um I'm I'm not here really to speak against the business here. I'm really also opposed to any kind of spot zoning. Uh uh hard the hard truth development went in next to my residence. Uh it's been 7 8 years ago now and we are still trying to get a reasonable moist level in my backyard and sometimes in my home. Um it's it's again it's not this business. Uh I I don't have any problems with that per se, but it's on down the road. It's unforeseen things. And even if you put conditions, um, you know, a lawyer could come in here 10 years down the road if the propertyy's sold and argue to get those conditions removed. I I just am not for any type of uh spot zoning like that. Um, I I will say I I'm also on the town council. Uh, I'm not here in that capacity, but I will say that there was no formal offer put in to buy that. there was an investigation. I called Dave Rudd this afternoon, another council member, to make sure I wasn't crazy with that. And he said, "No, I I just uh was saying if that would be a number, we were doing some due diligence on a maintenance building." So, I just did want to throw that out as a correction.

Thank you for your time. Thank you.

Hello, board members. How are you tonight? My name is Brandon Harris. I live at 1345 Greasy Creek. Uh my wife and I have lived there since June of 2010. Before I start, I would like to ask permission for my neighbor, Mr. Ron Bishop, who owns the parcel directly to the east of the uh parcel that we were talking about. Um he wants the council to know that it has not been brought up that all of the illegal businesses that the historical uh narrative has been brought up have never paid him for all the electrical that he has been providing. So those barns were set up and he has been paying the electrical. So, he is looking into council now for the thousands upon thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars that all of those previous companies uh just neglected to to let him know about. Uh the u other couple things that he wanted to say is that um enforcement is an issue that that he's looked at. He's lived there I think since 2017. uh he has submitted his own complaints um and his main thing is well you know what's the point of zoning maps or special exemptions if there is no enforcement uh for my wife and I I feel I I I feel on the exact same page as Mr. Clark when we moved to Mount County we were also promised that the Raran property was a zone business property and that it had been a trucking company Beth's trucking to be exact. um they were in financial um hardships. We bought the property. It ended up taking an extra 6 months to close because of some debt that they had put onto the property. Long story short, I had the My wife and I own a a automotive restoration company. We have mobile trucks. We have multiple employees. I was in this same spot. I

got denied. We had to take it on the chin. Uh we had a realtor promise us that it was going to be easy to come in and get a reasonzoning. Um nothing against realators. We all have to do our due diligence, but when you move into a new county, uh just like Mr. Clark is stating, you do kind of hope that some of the advice you're getting is is good advice, but at the end of the day, it's still up to you. You you sign the paperwork. Um with that, I would like to read a statement, please. Members of Brown County Rezoning Commission, I respectfully submit this statement in opposition to the request to reszone the 2.26 acre park parcel located at 1335 Grezy Creek. This property lies within farm and residential community where surrounding parcels are zoned for residential use and agricultural character. According to Brown County zoning principles and subdivision regulations, special exemptions are intended to be applied narrowly and only when a parcel does not meet established requirements. In this case, the former approximately 10acre parcel that fall below the standards of size requirements under the ordinance. The exemption was represented to the community when the Malo, Steve Malo and Justin Malo were good friends of mine. Uh the community did talk about how it was going to be broke up into a subdivision at that time. Uh the concrete business was only there, I think, temporarily as a as a uh a place similar to Mr. Clark where he just had his equipment stored, but he was not running any type of retail business. The semi that was dropped there in the back was actually designed because they were planning on building a home there and so that was going to hold some of the equipment at the time because the brown barn had been rented out by another local contractor at the time. Property was purchased in late 25 by Jesse Clark at the time of sale. The myboard listing marketed by Miss Mrs.

Frogggins of Bear Real Estate clearly identified the property as a residential parcel. Mr. Mr. Clark is an established businessman, which I respect. He performs residential and commercial electric contacts. I'm not sure. We had a small conversation, but I believe he's lived in the county since 2019, may maybe longer, but notably, he's a a long-standing resident. However, he's not seeking to resone his own residence for business operations. studies requesting that this small already exempt residential parcel be converted to general business classification to accommodate a company with multiple employees and commercial vehicles in the immediate Greasy Creek residential corridor. Clearly, there's not too many realators that would say that a property that all of a sudden becomes a general business located next to uh R1 that those R1 properties are not going to suffer depreciation. As we all know, Zillow is pretty much the number one when it comes to shopping and most people look down uh from a GPS level. So, all of the members that have signed the petition, you have 50 plus that are on there. I think what you're seeing um board members here is that we're finally fed up. This property has been illegally ran for years and years, ever since I've lived here. And um when I sat on boards, it feels good sometimes. Yes, ma'am. Uh to be able to approve something, but as as we all know, um trying to enforce things in Brown County is an issue. Um it's concerning the work has already begun on the building, you know, to convert it into a retail storefront prior to zoning approval. As an experienced businessman, Mr. Clark is aware that proper zoning authorization needed to be done. It's one thing when I was on council if somebody came in and they were a brand new business owner, you kind of give a little bit of a lenience, somebody

that's been doing it a long time that knows that they have to get certain requirements should know. Uh so with that, I respectfully request the commission deny the application to reszone 1335 Greasy Creek Road to General Business and uphold the residential integrity of the Greasy Creek community. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. Anyone else? Can I leave a There is one on this chair. You might have been in back there, Jim.

Good job, guys. Don't worry, I haven't set the clock on you yet. That's okay. You may start now. I am the Kenny Hammond that walked around and got this petition signed. Almost everyone that signed it was very enthusiastic against the reszoning of this property. I've lived there. I was born and raised there. Lived on Earth Creek my whole life along with the rest of my family. We would not like to see it go commercial. That's all I have to say. Did you give your name? What was your name? Kenny Hammond. Kenny Hammond. Okay, thank you.

Hi, Scott Hammond. Um, again, I've lived on Grace Creek Road for 57 years. um opposed to this. Nothing personal yet. You never know who's coming in next. Just as we talked about the other businesses that have been there been there illegally, they should have done their you know and then this all would have been taken care of before. If it was could have been so again opposed. It's not personal toward him. It's who could be there next and what type of business they could bring in and change everything about the road. That's all I have to say.

Thank you, sir. May I say one one quick thing? do is actually what you brought up Carol Brandon Harris again. Uh in 2023 uh the parcel u as you said was assessed as a corporate tax that was done as a penalty because of the illegal business. Uh so the c the council should know that as soon as that was done the property was put up for sale. Thank you.

My name is Keith Baker. I live 1169. with a lane which is actually Grezy Creek. Uh I'm I guess 601 ft away from the property. So I didn't get an initial card to reply to you guys. Um been there since 2005. Uh I just for the record I'm prior uh council president in Brown County. Uh and also I'm the current president of the township advisory board for Washington Township. I'm not here in that capacity but I think most of you know that my volunteer efforts in the county I currently sit on about 10 or 12 boards. that's in fruition for me because I can't say no. But, uh, it's important for us. I have 4 and a2 acres, uh, on Grz Creek, the third driveway on the right. Um, that that maintain a residential area for us. Um, it's key. I'm really concerned that somebody was loud enough to move in and operate illegally uh, with a business and I think they're rules for a reason. uh I don't love the idea of business here but I think someplace else uh for instance knob owners or an industrial type of area is where you need to put a business not in a residential area so I'm against

thank you and my name is not Hammond

Hello my name is Lindsay Harris I live at 1345 Grezy Creek Road um my parcel is adjacent to their parcel um that is being requested to be reszoned. I am against it um due to property value um general business in the future um is what my concern primarily is. I do appreciate the cleanup that has happened to the property um but I am against general business.

Thank you. Debbie Fairy and I am a Hammond. My family has lived um at 1531 Breezy Creek Road since 1978 and Mr. Clark has done a wonderful job of cleaning up the property. It's nothing against him. It's what can come with a GB zoning. Lots of things that totally change our neighborhood. So, I am against reszoning to GB.

Thank you. I'm Doug Beard. I live at 115 Greedy Creek Road. been there since about two years ago and moved in the area because it was residential. I did not anticipate any changes down the road and am opposed to making any changes to general business of currently residential zoned area. Uh those of us who are on that road are there for a reason. Understand Mr. Clark wants to run a business and make a profit, but that should not stand out above the wishes of the people also who live on the road. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else? Well, if not, I'm going to bring it back up to the board. Okay. additional question for Mr. Clark. Did I ask him to come back up here? I guess he heard you. I guess he did. Thank you. Uh Mr. Clark, um there's a there's a septic system on there now, right? Yes. Yeah, there's septic system uh on on there now. Yeah.

Okay. And uh you are aware or have you been made aware of the fact that if this does get its own general business and you'd be running a commercial uh I can't hear you, sir. I'm sorry. I got hearing loss. Sorry. Okay. If this goes through and you're running a commercial business, sure. Then you would have to go through the Indiana State Department of Health. Are you aware of that for the septic system and not the local county health department?

Um I I'm not aware of that. Uh no, but I I can I can uh find the support I need to to uh make sure that we're complying with uh I I know like when I do fire alarm jobs, I know stuff has to be submitted to the state uh in that respect for like when we're doing fire alarm jobs for for businesses and things. So I'm aware that some paperwork has to go through the state. Yeah. Yeah. This is just for information for you only because it is commercial. It would have to be handled through the HD and state department of health. Sure. Okay. Thank you. Um do I have a chance to to rebuttal or is that

Go right ahead.

Okay. Um uh uh again tonight uh you know we're here in capacity to to help our neighbors uh uh provide service. Uh we want to be respectful of the area. Um I I know there was a lot of hands up here tonight. Um it seemed like not that long ago they put a cell phone tower on the property. I don't know what the workings were there uh and what the what the impact of the neighborhood was. It was before I was here. Um, also um I uh I heard from another guy that you know respect me as a businessman who uh also saw that property as a place to operate his business and and wasn't allowed to at the time. Um and and again that uh they saw it as a business opportunity as well. Um, and to be clear, uh, again, uh, my realtor did tell me was zone residential and and not only her listing, but the listing, uh, agent before that, but if you read the listings, they both mentioned that there, uh, you know, would be good for a business. Um, uh, regardless of that, uh, you know, I was told it was residential and and I understand that fully. That's why I'm here tonight. Uh, I want to get in the line. I'm not trying to do anything sneaky or or or preemptively. I'm looking for a place to go in this town. I I did check nobone. I I did look through all the places. I knocked on doors. I I I asked if there's any space to rent. Uh, you know, I talked to several several people in in the None area. Uh, all all all were were filled up. Um, uh, we operate east and west. uh from uh mostly 90% of works here in Brown County, but we do Bartholomew and and

Monroe. Um so we need to stay along this corridor as much as possible for financial uh sense. Again, we're trying to uh uh lien the community and I appreciate all my neighbors uh you know, saying that uh you know, they appreciate what I've been doing out there and and that they respect me as a as a as a person and know that we're we're trying to run a a great business. Um again, locations are limited in this county for service based businesses to operate. Um we again we got companies that that my colleagues with other other electric companies uh other builders that they're running out of storage sheds, they're running out of out of uh out out of their garages. Um and and uh whether it was me here tonight or not, I mean that the infrastructure that we bring uh the dollars that we bring in um uh are are are directly impacting this community and uh we need a place to to exist uh responsibly and and and legally. Um, I like I said, I I didn't buy buy this property to see what I could get away with. I I bought it uh knowing the history and knowing uh that it would suit my needs uh to to uh to to operate successfully. And that's that's really about all I got. Okay. Lord,

look at me. I already talk. Well, Andy's not here, so you're just

I mean, I kind of voiced all this earlier. I'm just Yeah, I can understand the predicament that you're in with finding a space. I can understand that it's a business that is relatively low impact when it comes to that. Um, yeah, you're based in the, you know, I I get all that, but I also see the point of the residents and in general spot zoning is something we try to avoid because, as you can see, part of the case here tonight is the proximity of other similarly zoned properties. So once you start placing selectively around you, other people can come in with that same argument of well now I'm the neighbor to this property that's zoned as such. So um yeah I that's I don't know I I I don't love the GB reszone in this area. I understand the challenges of placing restrictions and having those be acceptable to you to be able, you know, there's also a thing where it's like you've got to be able to run your business as well in whatever property you're in. So, I don't I'm still mulling over in my head.

I'm sorry. I got to make this very Did you get permission to talk? Oh, no. I did not. I'm sorry. We were looking at each other talking. Okay. I was just trying to address you. I'm talking it specifically about if he's got something to clarify. This is we pretty well closed with discussion here. This is the board speaking. Sure. Thank you. Yeah. Sorry. I was just trying to respect your presence here and address you and I get that but so I don't I'm still mulling over my feelings here. Master Tim, I'm going to take it. We don't have any zoning maps that show zoning in the area. Is there is everything around here is zoned residential? Is this cell tower zone residential?

Uh yes, there's a special exception on it from So can we do like a special exception on something like this with conditions or not? So we looked at that option. There really isn't a special exception that fits with this type of business to the other option would be like a PUD, which I know which says it can be a mix, but it doesn't have to be a mix. Yeah, we were looking at the

for the condition. It says it can Yeah, it can be a mix, but it doesn't have to be. So that I think I'd be because everybody's against I mean there's a lot against the GB reszone. I It doesn't sound like everybody's against business. Exactly. But I think some concessions like landscape mounds, whatnot might be, you know, but it's got to be agreed upon by

I do have a snip of the zoning map if you guys want to see it. Yeah, I think because somebody used a phrasing which it would be helpful to clarify that property fronting Greasy Creek was all residential and flood plane where like the proximity of the highway department, the fairgrounds, all of that, those are all on other roads technically. Yeah. from that perspective. Um, I was looking on like the real estate listing site and just at like commercial listings and is that like old Jehovah's Witness location? The church they're allowed,

but I didn't know if it was zoned as commercial that I believe is R2 cuz it's far enough up, but it's it's not a commercial business. Okay. It's churches are allowed in any Yeah. Yeah. I just didn't know the property could have been zoned something that the church wasn't like. So, I've got two copies of these that I can hand around. You guys have seen our big giant zoning maps. I don't want to bring them in. Yeah.

I'm scared they'll get broken. So, this is just kind of a snippet of this one, too. But we are in section 18. So, here's Kramer. So, here's Crazy Creek and it's showing R1. Yeah. All the way through here. Yes. Were you seeing R1? What the heck? Uh, there's a legend at the bottom. So, this is what R2 looks like. All right. And this is what R1. Oh,

so we're in section 18. So here's Kramer. This is Kramer's R2. See how small these dots here are? These are our one on this side and on and on crazy. What's the vertical hatching? Is this Spicer? That is Schultz. Oh, okay. Yeah. Is that the old farmhouse thing? Mhm. Okay. And the cell towers in this vicinity. Right here, I believe.

I'll get you copies of these, too. If anybody else wants a copy of these, I can provide that to you since I can't pull up anything on the monitor.

Huh? I mean, yeah, pretty much. I mean, I was want to see the zoning then other any other options versus a reszone and but you're saying conditional uses is not an option. The only other thing would be like a PUD. So when you say conditional use, are you talking about like a use variance? Yeah. We can't do those here. Okay. And we've I think we've talked about this area plan versus just plan commission. Yeah. I'd like to make one comment. I don't know how many people are aware of this. We we have been updating definitions and we're working on ordinances.

Okay. which is all part of the comprehensive plan trying to update everything. So, um the comprehensive Sorry, I didn't mean to ask this though. The comprehensive plan that got the draft is just kind of dead with the commissioners or they still I don't know that they've called time of death on it. It's kind of just sitting Okay. and waiting to die. Okay. All right. Pastor Randy.

Well, I think there's three things, well, two things that I think really impact this. One is a reszone is never to be taken lightly. That's a major issue for any planning commission to look at and consider. And we're looking at going from residential to general business. So, I understand everyone's concerns in here because if it is opened up to general business, if you look at our development code, it's going to allow for a number of things to go in there under general business classification. Some things are restricted or would require a special exception, but there's a lot that can go in just basically launch. So, I understand where you're coming from on those concerns. The other thing I'm a little concerned about here is the spawn zoning. We hear the word put and there is an instrument that can be utilized for that, but basically putt is also a type of spot zoning. Um, spot zoning really kind of gives me some heartburn and I think with most professional planners it does as well. Um, so you need to be very careful with that. I the other thing too is that and Mr. Clark, first of all, I want to compliment you on cleaning up the property. I've heard that now a number of times from people, so I think it's great that you've done that. Uh we need more of that in Brown County.

Sure. Um, the thing that kind of boggles me a little bit is the fact that you were aware of the fact that this was already zoned residential, but you did make the conscious effort to go ahead and transfer your business to that area and run it out of there even though it was not zoned as general business. You indicated that to me on a previous question that I asked you. No, you can just I'm right now I'm just kind of I am correct in that.

Yeah. Yes. I I was aware it was uh zone residential and and I was aware of of the the prior use and and I didn't know that it would be a problem uh to to run the business here until I bought the place and and was talking to the building department and said, "Hey, there was there was a complaint filed from the prior tenant Okay. Well, okay. But you were aware of I was aware that it was residential. Yes, sir. All right.

Um I'm kind of like Cara. I'm I'm still cogitating on this. Um so I think at this point that's really all I have to say. Miss J.

Well, I'd like to compliment you on what you've done to the property for sure and everybody else in this everybody in this room agrees with that that it's it's greatly improved. I I wish either you'd have done a little bit more research or given more thought about buying a residential property and assuming or hoping that it would be zone commercial in a residential neighborhood. I mean, I I I wish that had gone differently for you, but um it, as it's been said in here, we don't none of us really like spot zoning because there's a lot of it in this county and we've tried to nip that in the bud and not not allow that to to continue. And that really is what this is about. Um it's just unfortunate that it that it's surrounded by residential even though there are some commercial properties nearby. Um that might have been an oversight or may may shouldn't have happened. I don't know. Water in the in the bridge. But um I'm I'm struggling with this too.

Uh I will say that when I drive by there from from from uh uh Main Street, you know, and you're going to speak and I

I knew she was going to say that. I just thought I'd go ahead. Uh I like to say that, you know, when I drive from Main Street to to the property, uh you less than a mile from Main Street, uh you know, again, I'm passing the fairgrounds, the the waste management uh uh district, the highway department, uh a church overall before I get to to to my property. Um again, u uh Andy, so place have businesses. This was a business. Uh there's businesses up the road. Uh it's a double yellow line. Uh it's a main main thoroughfare and uh uh and you know uh you're right. I should have done some more research u uh I bought the property on faith uh to get this resumeone. Um knowing that there's very limited spaces in the county already. You know, I've looked and looked and looked uh uh the places that are available aren't aren't suitable. Uh we're not we are not not not running that retail storefront. Um we come in, we get our trucks, we leave and come back and go home. We are not running the storefront. somebody if the customer drops a check by uh you know that that's uh invited uh but uh usually even even billing's done through credit cards and and mail. Um we've serviced uh a lot of homes up and down Grezy Creek and Wet Lane as well. Um um uh again I uh I feel like uh we fit into the comprehensive plan. We belong here

in the county. Uh this is a great place for us uh and and the community. We can get to places fast when needed. uh you know, we bring economic impact uh not only through our charitable giving uh and and our community outreach, but uh our payroll uh is important uh and and uh the programs that uh I I put the apprentices in are important to maintain u here here in this county. uh uh we need more uh more allowance for for service based businesses uh to operate um and uh and sustain and and cultivate and develop. There's a lot of residents in this county and businesses seeking out town electrical help uh because there's nobody here at a capacity that's running legally. uh and those that are here at a capacity that can do it are in the same boat I am uh finding a place to operate.

Okay. It's up to me now, huh?

Okay. Well, so I'm going to make my comments. Um some which you've already heard and some which are um a little bit different. Okay. Um, I do appreciate that you have a good business and the kind of business we kind of we would like to have in Brown County and that you are an involved community member. Um, that that is really good. But with the spot zoning and the number of tourist house that we have in different areas, which those residents in those areas have had issues with too much business, if you want to call it that way, the tourist house and not enough residents or affordable houses so we can pull families into Brown County and and young families and also there's a lot of opportunity for um um and I'm not putting down your business at all, but other other kind of business that can be done in a home and nobody would even know it, you know, as far as working on um um internet services and and commercial services all done on the internet kind of stuff. Um and I'm going to finish up with this to this is something I say to my patients uh on a regular basis to every decision there's a consequence. sometimes good, sometimes not good. So um you bought the property and now you're suffering the consequence of making that decision it with the appearance that I feel that you did not you did not follow through to double check on uh the property um zoning and I know when I bought my property years ago and stuff one of the things we checked very much uh if um there was going to be any issues with the property and stuff because my my particular property happens to be in the next township out of this whole housing

area that I'm in. And that was one of the things that I had to be concerned about, you know, because it's like, all right, how does this affect me? How does this affect our household? Um, and stuff. So, and there's been some there were some things then that people did not realize and and had to be adjusted. So um at this time um the board is going to contemplate finish wrapping up and then I guess we will make a motion. Okay. While we're thinking can you remind like what happens we make whatever recommendation

and then what the pro like tell them because they need to know there's a next step they still need to be involved whatever. Okay. Yeah. So whatever decision is made tonight is not the end of it's not the end all be all. So the planning commission can decide to make a positive recommendation, negative recommendation or they can send no recommendation at all to the Brown County Commissioners. So that's a board of three. So whatever decision they make tonight, I will then certify to the commissioners and then um they will post their agenda for it to be heard and then finally determined at their meeting. So, this goes to another commission from here.

And we've learned the hard way in recent history that they don't they can do whatever they want. Whatever we recommend, they'll get their vote. So, we don't always get And theirs is the final. Theirs is the final. Yes. Is there is there more time there for me to go through my slide or is it uh the the same five minutes? It seems like a very short time to to represent. That's up to what their rules of procedure say. Yeah, that will be up to the commissioners. Yeah, and I don't know I don't know what they are. I I really don't they you can contact the commissioner's office in advance and ask what that would be. I

I can get a copy of who the commissioners are from the building department. Yeah, they're on the website. I just go in the office and say how Yeah. How's it structured? How structured? There's at least the secretary that's in there during that day. When's when is there when will this come? Before that.

Um, so we will certify it. I'm trying to pull up the calendar in my head here. So, their next meeting will be the first Wednesday and then the third Wednesday of March. They typically don't hear reasons during the daytime meeting, which would be the first Wednesday. So, I'm going to bet that it would be the second or the third, I'm sorry, the third Wednesday of March at a night meeting that starts at 6:00 in here. I can't guarantee that because I don't make their schedule, but as soon as I know, they'll have it on the the calendar for their meeting, too. And you can always call the office, too, during

Yeah. Yep. call or email. If you guys need a card before you leave, we'll I'll bring cards out to you. I guess Kayla, the question is, is it best I mean, is there a way to find out what the residents would make them content with, if it were not reszoned, but used as the proposed, what things they would request to be done if they were I mean, because everybody's against the GB because they afraid of the future. And I don't blame him one bit. Mhm.

But that's why I always like PUDs because you can, you know, stipulate you got to have this. You can only do this. You can set different, you know, noise limits. You can set so much more in a PUD versus just a reset. Now, and that's a good question, Dave, though. If we if we made conditions, recommend conditions on this and then and then another business comes in down the road, can they contest that? Well, they can, but uh that's it's a condition.

So, just it's a it should be legally binding, right? I mean they could come back before just like just like in just hours. Okay. Your conditions have to be uh rationally related and reasonable in in scope to the to the objectives of the ordinance. Commitments on the other hand can are not as as limited. They can they can range a lot more broadly and encompass a lot of different things. So, um, and I think they're safer from an enforcement standpoint commitments being a freely given offer of

and the commissioners can accept those at the next stage as well. So, so could we say for instance that I I think this group is is scared of the general business thing but if if could we specifically say that it's it is service industry only or um I guess we'd have to call it a service industry business service based business, service based business only.

Yeah. If if that commitment were offered by the petitioner, the land owner, you could you could you could move this forward subject to that subject to a written commitment being filed. And then, you know, it's up to the commissioners, too. So,

and they would have he would have to write that himself, right? I would caution that we don't want to get too much into the granularity of this um because I'm thinking that probably something like that could be almost applied in every if not every case a lot of our cases and I'm not so sure that's really a

a proven on the part of this commission there's times I'm sure it may be verified at times it maybe not so but I would hate to be in a position to make that call. Um, like we said, I know I don't and I know everyone up here takes change in zoning like this is a a fairly serious um issue for a planning commission to look at and consider and it's not one that we take very lightly. Um, particularly when you're going from residential to a general business. Um, so to expedite procedures, I'm going to go ahead and make a motion if that is okay with the rest of the commission with respect to docka 26-rz-1. Petitioner Jesse Clark requests to reszone 2.62. 62 acres from primary residential one R1, excuse me, to general business. I recommend that we give a no recommendation to the commissioners on this.

A negative or no recommendation at all. I'm sorry. Point negative. Negative. Are you saying no? That would not reason a negative recommendation. Negative recommendation. Positive, negative, and no. You're you're making you're making the no. What a negative re to not reszone is his correct reaction. What are you looking at? Be like I I'm just looking at the Are you clear? Because I'm tired of looking at the no recommendation would be like we are not giving a recommendation. We're statement. And he's saying

a negative recommendation to not Thank you for the clarification. I'm a good Randy translator, I think. And is there a a second motion? I mean, I want to ask the other like I'm What other motion are the two of you thinking of if not seconding that motion? I want to pause the motion for a second and hear what these two are.

You looking at me? Yeah. Or and him, but he's he's not looking. So, I'm looking at you. Okay. Just if you are if you were I don't want to make eyes. I guess I I guess I would say I would I would recommend a no. Not a negative but a no. So to not to send like a neutral recommendation is what you're saying. Yes. No recommendation, right? You would that would be your motion to not send a recommendation either way. Okay. Okay. And what are you thinking? I'm thinking I hate to say it. I I don't like the GB. I prefer something with them, the petitioner, meeting with the residents, coming up with a plan that hopefully makes everybody happy.

Yeah, maybe some landscaping. I think it's some landscaping, some I think there could be a meeting of the minds and something worked out. Mhm. I think the the GB opens it up for too much, but I hate to knock everything down just for without hearing everybody come together and trying to work something out. Respectfully, as a homeowner, we've been promised that before. There's no there's no enforcement. I'm going on 5,400 days of no enforcement. Sir, I'm sorry. The audience is closed. This is a conversation for the board. Sorry. And not that that stuff hasn't happened, but it's a different part of the system.

So, you still haven't really needed answers. Well, I just said my thoughts. Well, and I also I mean, this is a different business, a different place, but I also have a challenge with the commitments or the restrictions and then trusting that enforcement's going to control that. And then also just businesses change, needs change over time. Like I know for example, Bill Monroe has really come up against commitments that were made on the prop, what was allowed on the property, the frequency of events in the past and like how that's really affected their business ability to come back business. And I don't know if that's here or what, but there's I and years ago that I heard this. So I know it's not the exact same thing, but it's like

to Ry's point to try and get into this granularity that's controlling what's allowed, what's not. Mhm. And it's really hard to know how those implementations are going to play out and then how it's going to be

um you know truly enforced in the future. Yeah, I would that's my I hate to just outright say that because I see the value of the business in the community. I see that you know again as from a specific nature of that business it's much you know less disruptive than things that have been there in the past or even what potentially could be there but we have to look at the specific location. Um

yeah if it makes it any simpler I mean I think it's to me what I'm really focused on is this is a clear case of spot zoning to general from R1 to general business an area that's surrounded by residential. So, if I had to take it down to the one basic thing, I think that that stands out to me more than anything else. somehow this um

yeah I you know from a from a purely a plan commission perspective I will I will second um Ry's motion of a negative recommendation for okay um so that's that's got two votes so I think now she's got to do her well we got finish two other people haven't talked I haven't talked. Okay. I'm still confused about a no means I mean see if I said no recommendation made may mean that's one of our three choices. Yeah. And that's what Jane said. Yes. Right. It's like basically not taking a positive or negative.

There's three points. You said no recommendation and that one of the three choices. Let the commissioners decide. And then Randy said no. Basically said negative. Negative. Negative. Oh negative. That's right. you you're you're no recommendation. You're a negative and yet the negative. So what I'm saying I'm seconding his Okay. So his his and you don't have the opinion right now. Split still. He's about going to have to read his name.

You're second up. Well, so far that's the only one that's got two two um two motions and nothing else. Yeah. I'm also with you, Jane, because it's like the commissioners are going to just decide it anyway, but I hate to abdicate from a plan, like I said, from a plan commission perspective. I think we can be in agreement that Yeah, I'm really uncomfortable with that kind of an application and our two hours. Yeah. And we had two hours on this, you know, so it just wasn't a willy-nilly thing

and stuff. So, um, so we have a a first and a second motion on the negative, um, uh, recommendation. And I guess we go to Balen, how do we, huh? How do we How do we If you say yes, you're you're agreeing with the negative recommendation. Okay. All right. We're agreeing with Randy at this point. Okay. Okay. Agreeing or disagreeing, but Right. So with the reason to to GB with a negative recommendation to the Brown County Commissioners, if you say yes, you're saying send a negative recommendation. We're agreeing.

Okay. And this is the this is governmental processes. This isn't common sense, people like this. This is the high flutin words you get from your doctor. Okay. So Carol anyway um yes I will state that I'm going to say yes only but because of GB I think that something could be worked out but I and I would hope something could be worked out with them and the residents. Okay. Jen, no. Ranger Jones, yes. Yes. Okay. Motion carries. Board of

And you will take care of getting that to the commissioners? Yes. Okay. Let me before anybody leaves, I'm going to get business cards and set them out here. So, you got our phone number and our email in case you want to know when the commissioner's meeting will be. We still meeting left. I know. That's why I want to look at the agenda. I just knew he probably hadn't heard it yet. She's always y'all can stay for the rest of the meeting if you're late, but in front of me every day.

Bye. Can I ask a question about policy? It doesn't deal with this, but it kept coming up.

A lot of people are talking about it. supposed to be. So, how does that how does that work? Are you supposed to be out driving the county or not? So, it's complaint driven and so if we get a complaint, then we start investigating and a lot of times with businesses, it is hard whether or not someone there's not a sign. You can't tell. Sometimes there's six kids.

Yeah,

I was just curious complaint driven and whenever comes in, we take it seriously and we try to Okay. If you're going to talk, please leave the room because we have the rest of the meeting to uh carry out. Okay. All right. So, we have discussions, announcements, and inspector's reports. Does anybody have any questions on those? We don't have much to say on the financials because we only had one month.

Yeah.

Sure. Something I've wondered about the building inspector, like is there at any point some of these ones that are just on here for forever, like whatever happens. So if they're on there for a really long time, um I know that um say Harmony Tree Resort, they have had to renew their building permit at least once and now the you know the business is for sale. So I don't know what's going to happen with with those permits. Um, a lot of the stuff with the state, getting approval from the state is taking quite a while. So, on commercial buildings, I know that that's been kind of an issue.

What about like the hard truth of timber pavilion that required the reszoning before they they have not yet applied for reszoning. I have an email from Chris Curtain that promises that they will. So, next time I see him, he will be held to that. Yeah. From what I understand, and I've asked around, there's nothing going on in that building. They just had that, and this this is only what I've been told. Um, they just had all that material, and it was going to go bad sitting, so they went ahead and put it up on our property. No one's using it. No one's doing anything with it commercially. If anybody knows any different, let me know.

And then, um, ask while Carol's thinking back to the comprehensive plan. I mean, do we need to like do something to not like need to in the statutory sense, but like in the okay, we did all this. What do you want? Are you talking about the Herard thing? No, the comprehensive plan. Oh, okay. I think I think we're just dead in the water at this point in time.

That's a good question. I know we've got we've got one commissioner who doesn't necessarily like the plan, how we got to the new plan, anything like that. So, I they can accept it, they can reject it, they can they can leave it sitting for it, they can let D slow death. I mean, there's it's pretty much up to their discretion. Okay. Mhm. But the bottom line is we know it needs to be updated, right? Yeah. Like how's that one what's there worse than what we already have? But Right. Okay. And in the format that people can understand it too. Correct. Would you guys like for me to ask the board of commissioners or a formal update on the I think that would be good to

I think that would be and and if it's that this isn't sufficient, it's like all right well then now what? Like okay what money? What? Let's talk about it. But yeah, what's next? Yeah. I mean, we we have the town board moving on. Yeah. They're already starting to rewrite their zoning ordinance. Mhm. And Oh, that did I see like they're would we go are they looking at us going from an area plan to like that they're going to have their own something? I feel like I read something that was kind of like they have their own. That's what it seems like a a different the worst kept secret in the world apparently cuz I thought I was the only one who was aware of this. I don't even know where I saw I think

it's going to be a couple years before that ever plans out or pans out. So they would essentially be their own enforcement. That would also change us. We would no longer be an area plan commission. That's where I feel like I don't know that it's a way a uh poorly kept secret. It's like insider baseball. It's just like we understand what it would mean if they did this. It like changes the whole and selfishly like what that means for us. Yeah, because we would have to change our rules of procedure, the way that we work, where we get our members from. Yeah, a lot of things would change for

would have but there is something municipal I believe under statute, right? I don't know whether the town over here would qualify as I assume it would but the way there's municipal metro area and advisory advisory, right? The way I kind of heard it was just like saying like a complete a complete entity unto themselves. Yes, that's what I read. Yeah. It must have been in a Democrat article. That's literally the only place I can imagine that I read it somewhere. It was. Yeah. So, okay. But I'm sure it will take a while to Yeah. Oh, we moved quickly.

Well, hey, the town's doing it. So maybe I want we don't have anything on the docket yet for next months. We do we've got a um we did one of these it's been a couple years now on Sam's Hill Road. So it'll be a one lot minor subdivision. Okay. To make a buildable lot um the last one we did was on Sam's Hill. Oh. Um this one is on Sam Hill or No, the last one that we did previously. This one is on Sweetwater Trail, I think. Yes. What hill? Sweetwater Trail. Oh, Sweet Water Trail.

And it was a 2acre tract that instead of being platted as 2 acres before 78 was platted in like March of 80. So, they missed. So, yeah. All right. Dave, do you have anything? I do not. I did have had some conversations with Mr. Nixon about coming in and applying for a subdivision. And uh I think I'm going to have to prepare a complaint and send that to him to see Joe's salty sage. Oh yeah. Did you get a response from him?

He he asked me some questions and I think the best way to answer them is just to send him a draft complaint and say, "I'm going to file this if you don't file your subdivision. Anything else you need to report? No. Okay. Okay. And with that, all those in favor? Yes, sir. I I know I'm not on the docket, but I have a dilemma. So, I have a question. Would you like me to come up here? Yeah. We don't We don't We don't talk from the audience. We talk from the podium.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. my aunt. I guess I am. Uh, my name is David Krenland and this is my wife Rebecca. We are the owners of the Need More Grocery Store and this is what all we were talking about before. Boy, it was interesting. Uh, we uh recently decided we were going to sell our store. Oh, yeah. And our realtor discovered we have never been zoned for business. Oh. And it's been operating since 1954, which is one of the reasons why we're trying to clean up everything so things be more 1954.

1954 is when the store opened. I was on PB still about Lawson's Point and Dean Lawson to begin with as a general. I mean, it's located on State Road 45. Yes. So, state roads are viewed differently typically as we think about zoning and business zoning than a residential area. That doesn't you just have to go through the same process as all of us. And for that one, I would suggest and I think we've I'm Kayla. I think we've talked on I would suggest AB zoning because of what they do um with Lake Lemon being right there. Yeah.

Mhm. That's what I would suggest. They can go for GB if they want to. So do we have to go through the complete process correct of we just about got we might have the store sold in the next couple days. So I mean you So what could have happened like what Mr. Clark could have done this would be common that a purchase agreement would contain a requirement that like the reszoning is going to be done and if it doesn't happen then the purchase agreement is null and void null and void like that they're purchasing it with the understanding that it'll be reszoned and so you wouldn't close until a you know you would need to build in time. Kayla can help you understand there's like

you know you it's to it's past time to be on the march. I thought maybe we were going to walk out of here. We couldn't open the doors in the morning. Well, you hear how long it takes to enforce anything. So, not to not to knock the I was nervous. Uh not to knock No, I'M NOT TRYING TO KNOCK THE DEPARTMENT. But it's like an administrative process with the courts, with the whatever. It's complaint based. It's clear, you know, that it's a discovery. You know, you're trying to rectify it once you discover it. So, you still have to go through the same process. It's not a guarantee of anything, but the material facts are different. Residential. Yes, it's R1 and it's on State Road 45. And since 1954, there's been a business there.

Yes. There you go. was hoping to just get grandfather. What would Dave say? Well, yeah, that's true. I don't know what since 1954 is part. Yeah, that's I mean it might be grandfathered Dan and if it were that the limitations would be it couldn't expand. It could continue to exist but it couldn't expand and that would be a question then for your buyer whether they're buying it with the understanding of modern zoning expanded they would have to come back here and get res. Well, if it's I think we do. We have pre-existing non-conforming. Yeah. Nonconforming. Yeah. What's the like year cut off for that?

Well, the ordinance wasn't adopted until 64. So So how' they get it wrong on zoning? It's kind of, you know, seems like somebody made a mistake. I think here's what people really don't know what's all around the county. They think, you know, people really don't get out and around and see what's there. So, and then nobody ever checked the map after. Obviously, they just made up here how they tested it. I was just as shocked to learn the zoning as I was telling them and their realtor and the only way that they find out different problems for um Yeah. resolutions because somebody calls it including question. Yeah.

Or somebody's appraising it and needs the zoning for appraisal or they're selling it. Well, the event would come back and bite is bad and we look bad when that happens because it's like, well, you haven't done anything. And Mr. Clark had some good points here this evening, but we don't have the wherewithal, the resources or anything else to really do a comprehensive enforcement against that, do we? No. Yeah. I wouldn't like So, we need to contact you. I can see both sides. Are you working with a realtor? You said carpenter. Okay. I mean, I would recommend like that they reach out to Kayla to I mean, it's going to have to be if you have a buyer potentially lined up. We were told that they were going to negotiate.

Okay. Well, so you got to understand what they want. You know, your realtor can help with that conversation. Do they need require the zoning? Are they willing to move ahead with a, you know, grand having your realtor talk to Kayla to understand the timelines? Because from any point that you would apply for reszoning, you're at least two months out from it being done. um your schedule, right? It's our schedule and then you heard it's the commissioners on top of that. You know, it's a month out from us that the commissioners would even hear it. Yeah. So, it's not quick, but Well, that brings up a really good point that someday I think we're going to we're going to have to discuss this issue with how do we handle these when they come in to us. I mean,

what do you do? I mean, how many options do we have open to us? They come in say I'm in violation. and I know it, but I want to come into compliance now. Okay. Thank you very much for coming in and I'll tap them on the back and say have a good day. Well, I think like Dave was just saying when people are making efforts to come into compliance, they're not actively trying to enforce against those people at that time. Like, you know, if this person applies their subdivision, whatever, it's like, okay, yeah, we don't need to file against you. Yeah. So, I was thinking like we have our liquor license and we've we've had little hiccups here and there. So, there was times we just had to shut down. We couldn't sell any liquor. Yeah.

You know, until we got our license redone and back, I guess. Yeah. I think this is a different Yeah, that's a different And historically, you know, they people in this situation have been given grace, right? Because they're selling their business. They've How long have you all had it? Uh well 15 years 14 years for us but it's been in the family for 40 41 years. Yeah. His parents bought the store in 1982. So yeah nobody saw any issues. So you got a good look at the process tonight but your facts are materially different. So it would be a very different conversation around your request. Now that's one of the problems that they're all

right. They're all different right? you know, and it's very difficult to have a cookie cutter kind of solution to it. But I really do think that we need to we need to think about this a little bit. Yeah. Cuz it's also a pain for the staff as well as for the planning commission. How do you want to handle this? How do we need to approach these things? And I don't know. Yeah. Cuz as of right now, it's like, well, let's try to get in compliance. That's the big thing getting into compliance and then allowing Is there some way you document that like whatever non what you call it something non pre-existing nonconforming

nonconforming pre-existence? Yeah, that's that is a defense to an enforcement action. Yeah. So, um, and basically, uh, you have to establish that it was generally known in the neighborhood as an existing use prior to the adoption of the zoning ordinance, which probably wouldn't be a a a tall hurdle in in this case. Um, so it's not really something done proactively. It would just be if enforcement was brought against. Yes. Okay. But I did want to say something about spot zoning if I may because it has been brought up.

In Indiana, spot zoning is is a zoning that does not comply with the criteria that that Kayla listed on her report. So you have to give reasonable regard to the comprehensive plan and responsible development and growth and and property values in the area, but not a single one, none of those are in and of themselves dispositive. Like it could be it could be against the comprehensive plan, but it could still be you could determine that it was responsible development and growth. So, you know, putting a business zone in the middle of a residential area is not necessarily a spot zone. And here's an example. You have a a large residential area. You want to have a commercial node in there to service that that residential community with a a convenience store or a gas station or something. So, that would make sense. So, it wouldn't be spot zoning. Spot zoning is just zoning that's that's not rational essentially.

It must be based on considerations other than public health. That opens up a little can of ration. Well, but yeah, kind of like the farmhouse up there on Spearville Road and you got Gatesville store and you got I mean just they are great little businesses. It's great to have them. So when you need something it's there. I mean Mhm. So I I think that the worry of what's allowed in our GB versus what certain things I think that's what got everybody and that's what kind of concern well and I think there's also you know the challenge of when there's a clear history of it not being conforming. You knew that you bought it. You moved ahead like there's all again it's the facts of every case it's like

well that doesn't look great. You are you know the pickling you're getting into. Well, I don't think there's probably any residents in this county that would be happy that all of a sudden someone comes in and wants to reszone the property next to them to GB when they've been living there for 20ome years. It's written residential cuz they know I mean or they will know what that opens up and that group does know because of hard truth hills. True. Yes. Right. They have a very clear example of what happens. They do. So, um maybe that begs the question though. Maybe we should tighten up a little bit on what's allow card launch under I mean general business. Mhm.

When you ask the commissioners for an official up I mean they know this. This is what's like frustrating but it's like we can't for us to go and try and address all these other things. It's like if there's not a comprehensive plan there to give that framework. There's not tying our hands behind our back, right? And you can give examples of businesses are coming in. There's not clear ways that they fit into the ordinance. Like we want to Why are you Yeah. I think I think you should get rid of uh telegraph office and put in the general contract. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I mean it is that this is clearly a a problem. Yes.

Here. And it is like a gray area that you just have to put them into the like more permissive category because there's not a better match. We could only go by the map we have. Right. Exactly. Yeah. The map and the table that we have. Oh, sorry. We got off track. Did we answer your question? Well, you found an interesting evening to tell. You did. So, but of course, very different situations. Yes. Mhm. Yeah. All right. Well, she was asking Kayla, what do they need to do? I think bas like for apply for a reason. You guys have that paperwork and that package, right? right here. Okay. Have their Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's like whether you want to You may not want to apply for the reszone if they're fine with the kind of nonconforming. It's going to stay the way it is. Maybe the realtor should talk with the realtor been informed of the zoning. Yes. They're the one they're the one. Yeah. Well, I just mean for them to understand the options because that's got or maybe really the buyer's realtor needs to get because their buy the buyer is the one who's going to be affected by

you know Dave what you just said I think would go I mean how is your typical planning commission never going to know that about the definition on spot subing? I mean I've heard three or four different renditions of spot subbing. It's quite really it's quite confusing. Everything I've heard is negative in most cases. So we should have support and development from our legal council on certain subjects that we would like to have as clarification or this is my interpretation of what the slot subbing actually consists of and what you need to look for that type of thing. Yeah, be happy to

we all use the term tonight. I think just about all of us. Yeah. Well, it was brought up numerous times and I'm sure you wouldn't you wouldn't find two people out there probably could agree on exactly what it means. So, I think it's really important that we know that we're hearing what our legal council is telling us what spa zoning action is.

Okay. So, I'm just Oh crap.

All right. We didn't. Do we have a motion to adjurnn? I make a motion we second. Second. All those in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. That back. Let her in the meeting. Can you give me just like that?