Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

sold the property. It might have been. Yeah. Okay. They have a couple. They have two in Brockton. Yeah. Um, one uh is owned by another car, used car person [snorts] and then the other one's over by Walmart. I buy a lot of cars from them. Just a heads up, I can hear someone's TV in the background. Just Just so y'all know, not sure where it is. We are now live. Just Okay. And the streaming is good. Isaiah, streaming is good. We're not live, but the streaming is good.

Okay. So, um you can probably start that whenever whenever Tony gets back and then um everyone's here now, so she can start the meeting once that's up and running. Okay. All right. I'll start now, brother. All right. I'm ready to go. Good evening everyone.

Go a couple. Here we go. All right. [snorts] Good evening everyone. Tony Gonzalez, [clears throat] chair of the planning board for the city of Brockton. Call in tonight's meeting together for January 6, 2026. Oh, the agenda says uh 25th. [snorts] You might want to correct that. Um Isaiah. Um we have a brief agenda. First we're going to do roll call. And I start with Oh goodness. Flipping back and forth. Where is my people? There's my people. Matthew Gallagher [snorts] here. James Sweeney here. Marty Crowwell here.

Yolanda Spanola here. All right. Tony is present. All right. Ah, [clears throat] so for the agenda, um, can is there a vote to accept last month's meeting minutes, please? Motion to accept November 25's minutes? Second. Second. All right, roll call. Matthew, yes. James, yes. Marty, yes. Yolando, yes. Tony, [clears throat] yes. All right. Next, uh, we added two shy releases. Um, are you going to take those, Evan? [snorts]

I can. So, um, the first one is Braor. So, um, if you guys remember the Braor Extension subdivision that came like I a year ago or so. Uh, they have been, uh, at work on that. It was 12 lots. Uh, you all are holding all 12 right now. Uh, they are coming back and asking for five of the 12 to be released. Uh they we have had letters from the engineering firm uh and the DPW uh verifying that they've done everything they all the work like what work they've done up to this point so far.

Uh so I don't see any problem with releasing these lots. Uh they're asking for lots one through five. All right. Is there a motion? [snorts] Motion to approve. Second one five. Second that. All right. Roll call. Matthew. Yes. James. Yes. Marty. Yes. Nolando. Yes. Tony. Yes. All right. Thank you. Next one. [snorts]

All right. The next one is on the other side of town. This is the Mia Meadows that is off of North Quinzy Street. Uh they are basically coming up to the end of this. They had come back to swap their shy. I a few months ago uh they you guys released the rest of the lots in exchange for a cash basically. So right now um you guys are holding about a quarter of a million dollars like $250,000 uh in shortity for them. Uh they've been hard at work. They're actually the [clears throat] only things left they have to do are is install some curbing and some sidewalks. Uh and again we also have uh the DPW has

[snorts] uh what's it called? Inspected everything and said everything is [clears throat] is good. So they are asking for the release of $162,550. Uh and the board will hold the remaining $83,000. Uh so I don't see any that that should be enough uh to cover all the remaining work. Uh, I don't see any issues with releasing that. Um, so if you guys agree, just you'll want to state the actual amount as well, and I can repeat it if you need to. So, it's 83,000 that we'll be um keeping finish the or holding. So, they finished the curbing and sidewalk and [snorts] we'll be releasing $162,550.

Correct. Correct. Is there a motion? Uh just on on the motion, Madam Chair, uh do they get an occupancy permit if they don't? Uh Evan, they they shouldn't. But uh I mean I if they don't and they walk away with it and the city needs to finish it, I would say that that would be reason to hold an occupancy permit. But also, I'm not the one who makes those decisions. That would have to be from the building department. But um that makes sense to me.

Yeah, just curious. I don't know why you we would issue it if it's not done, but I'll I'll motion uh to release uh to hold 83,000 for the remaining lots. I'll second and just you'll want to um state the amount that you want to release as well. 162,550. I'm sorry, Evan. Can you repeat that number? Yep. It's 162,550. Okay. So, I'll motion to release 162,550 uh from Mia Meadows and to hold 83,000. Thanks. A second. All right. Um, roll call. Matthew, yes. James, yes.

Marty, yes. Yes. Yes. All right, thank you. [snorts] Um, moving on. Um, is JK Homegrren Engineering Scott ready to go for 985 Belmont Street? [snorts] There he is. Let me move him over. He should be rejoining. And hey, Scott, is there anyone else with you that you need to move over or is it just you? Okay, just you. No, sorry, just me. All righty. It's all Hey, Scott.

Good evening, board members. Good evening, Madam Chair. Uh, happy new year to everybody. I know it's too Scott. January 6 and it's kind of late to do that, but it's the first time I've seen all you folks. So, uh, I have a, uh, well, first, Scott Farrier from Homegrren Engineering. I have a site plan for you folks to look at at 985 Belmont Street. Uh 985 Belmont Street is at the corner of Belmont and Coolage. Uh directly across from Manley Street next to the roadway apartments. Uh currently the site of Avon Auto Brokers. And if I can share my screen, um did you send a request, Scott?

I just did, Isaiah.

All right, you should be all set. There we go. All right. Perfect. So, this is uh the existing conditions of the site. As I said, at the corner of Coolage and Belmont, uh existing Avon Auto Brokers. U everybody knows the site. Across the front of the building is an extensive uh area for the for the cars for sale. Little bit of a drive around. Uh some paving in the back. An extensive drainage system. They have a a drainage detention pond on the side. Uh what we're looking to do is is pretty much start from scratch. Uh if I go to our site, we're looking at proposing about a 40 by uh by 130 foot uh tunnel type of car wash. uh kind of the modern car wash where we would enter in off of Coolage Street uh and then go through the pay kiosk stations, enter in through the uh the front of the tunnel facing Belmont Street through the tunnel and uh out the backside to at that area you would have uh two options. You could either exit back out onto Cooler Street and ultimately to Belmont, or you could enter the vacuum area, vacuum your cars, and then head back out onto Coolage Street. Uh the exit out onto Belmont Street would be an exit only, and it's an emergency exit only. Uh really at

there's really no opportunity for anybody to to come out and exit onto Belmont Street. It would be signed as a right-hand turn only. uh and it's curved that way. So obviously you wouldn't want to cut through the two lanes of traffic to to head up uh Belmont Street. But uh with the design of these facilities, once you get through the pay station, you obviously know you want to go to the car wash. You would enter into the tunnel and and uh and exit back out onto Coolage Street. Uh we've gone through two tech review meetings. Uh had some minor questions, mostly some landscaping issues, uh things like that. One thing that did come up with the the fire department and uh and the planning department was uh the hours of operation which uh at the ZBA we agreed to 7 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. 7 days a week. And also the question uh as to whether or not the facility would be gated and uh again that was a concern that the ZBA had uh just from other car washes in the area. Uh so we do have gates proposed across our entrance on Coolage and across our entrance uh exit out onto Belmont Street that will be open by the uh facility operators uh each morning and then closed again at night. Uh really everything else is is pretty cut and dry. Madam Chair, the the detention pond is going to stay. Uh it's going [clears throat] to be new d uh new curbing, new pavement, new landscaping, uh a couple of additional drainage areas to handle the roof runoff. Uh we did go to conservation commission and uh received an order of conditions from them uh a couple of months ago, I believe, back in November. So, we're uh we're clean with conservation. We had a peer review uh through the conservation commission that we went through to to get the drainage and the site plan approved. Uh and that's really all I have, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Scott. Um so my first concern that you partially addressed was that exit onto Belmont Street and you said it would be for emergency purposes only. How's that going to be flagged for emergency purposes? because that is a quite um before the meeting started, I made mention that I bought a lot of cars from Avon Auto Brokers and getting in and out of that exit was quite dangerous, especially [snorts] when my um son, 19-year-old son with his new license was driving. But how is that going to be as an emergency exit only? [snorts]

Uh there is I'm going to zoom up if I may, Madam Chair. There is uh signage proposed uh right here at the at the corner. You can see this little symbol right here. Uh that will say no left turn, right turn only. Uh I mean, you know, besides that, there's there's really no reason once you get through the pay stations, you've obviously committed to your car wash. There's no reason anybody would would go out that way, Madam Chair. Okay. [clears throat] Thank you, Scott. Um board members, other questions? [snorts]

Yeah. Uh Madam Chair, if I may. Scott, can you just take me through the green space specifically uh that's on Belmont Street in the corner of Coolage? Certainly, Mr. Sweeney. Uh one second.

There we go. So, this is our proposed landscaping plan. Uh most of the the landscaping that we have, we're really not proposing anything on Belmont Street. uh just to prevent any sight distance issues from cars that are waiting on Cooler Street at the light to get out onto Belmont. So, this will remain a uh a landscaped area, basically a green area up in the front on Belmont Street. And then uh the rest of the site, as you can see, is is pretty heavily uh landscaped, proposed landscaping uh with a lot of trees and shrubs. You've got the light at that corner, though, right Scott? Yes, there is a traffic. So, it's not like you're navigating that without a a street light.

Agreed. So, you know, nothing in the front. Um, could you put something in the in the front there to have some sort of some greenery? It doesn't You don't have to be overwhelming with it, but uh could we do anything up there? How about three trees, Mr. Sweeney? [snorts] Where whereabouts? I think we could put one uh there's a a concrete uh kind of a walkway right now uh getting to the site that would remain. So, we could probably go just off to the side of that and then

I I should say two I think would work better. Mr. Sweeney, if we came off the the front corner of the building right here where my cursor is and then a second one right here where the parking lot kind of makes it sweep. Could you throw the third one near that big one uh that's closest to the corner on Coolage right over here? Yeah, certainly. One more on Coolage and two on Belmont. I just think it would it would help that location, that corner quite a bit. [clears throat] When you say trees, do you just mean small shrubs? No. Here's uh the trees here that we would uh that we typically do in in Brockton. The paper birch is one kind and then the red maples. Uh those are nice.

There's Yeah, there's there's some other oak trees that are proposed, but we would go with with one of those two trees. Madam Chair, the rest of there are a lot of shrubs. The the little smaller symbols are are actually shrubs, but I think in this area, Mr. Sweeny's talked actual shade trees. Uh Scott, could we go with the red maple? Would that be all right? Sure. [laughter]

Okay. And that and that that is all I have, Madam Chair. makes James happy. Um I mean they do they are nice but um and you know he's right there is a street light there because uh we have an issue with another corner and there a homeowner has a a shrub that has now grown into a tree and it's it's very dangerous trying to get on uh the Tory Street. So anyhow [clears throat] just got to be careful with that. All right, any other questions?

Uh yes. Uh madam chair um a question that I have is just in regards to how uh water management is going to be on the site and if uh how um yeah like how do you all uh plan to keep the the water that is being used on the site on the site and uh going to the systems and not into our um

Yep. No, that's a good question. And we we've done a couple of these car washes in the area and it's it's a it is a uh you know, with the new technology, they don't use a lot of water. The water is constantly recycled. Uh and on this plant here, we have uh what we're calling reclaimed tanks and piping. These a series of three tanks right here. Uh where the water there's drains in the floor within the car wash. Uh the water is cycled through these tanks and then brought back into the car wash building and continually uh reused. Uh the washville car folks [clears throat] that that are the applicants, they they have a a bunch of car washes uh all over New England. Uh they have service contracts with pumping companies that come in and maintain uh this series of tanks to make sure that the the water is clean and all the sediment is removed and disposed of properly. So there is no uh no runoff from the actual car wash that gets out into the parking lot that gets uh added into the drainage system.

On that spot, is there any um green resources like rainwater or [snorts] solar or anything? There really is nothing proposed, Madam Chair. Nothing like that with the you know the actual mechanics of the car wash. I was just asking wondering. Thank you. Um, anyone else questions? Madam Chair, could I just ask Scott? Scott, they are not connected to city water, you saying?

No, they are they are connected to city water, but uh you know just for for the bathroom facilities and uh but that that's really it. They do not uh they don't constantly use water every time they wash the cars. It's basically one time the tanks get filled and then after that they just keep getting recycled. The water does good. Yeah, it is. Thank you. It is. Yeah. All right. So, is this open for public comment? Is ladies and gentlemen, if anyone would like to comment on this, please use the raise your hand icon and you will be allowed to speak. Uh, and I don't see anybody raising their hand, Madam Chair.

All right. Is there a motion? I'll I'll motion to approve with standard conditions and also add uh three red maple trees uh in addition to the landscape. Uh two on Belmont Street and one on the Coolage side intersection. Perfect. I will second that with an emphasis on the red maple trees. [laughter] All right, roll call. Matthew, yes. James, yes. Marty, yes. Yolando. Yes. Tony, yes. All right. Thank you. Thank you, folks. All right, Scott, I guess you're up again for 651 Belmont Street.

Madam Chair, I think we missed um a segment. The ANR is just a heads up. We did. If you guys want to wait until after the next site plan, you can or we can do it now. No, I just wanted to make mention of it so that we remember. That's all. Thank you. Thank [snorts] you. I um don't have the new uh agenda printed, so I'm trying to work off my SC screen. Um all right, Scott, 651 Belmont Street.

All right. [snorts] Uh again, Madam Chair, board member Scott Faria, Homegrren Engineering. Uh kind of an exciting project here. 651 Belmont Street. I'm going to request to share again, Isaiah. Uh there we go. So 651 Belmont Street is the the Shaw Plaza. Uh you can just barely see it on my sheet. The very top of the of the page, Shaw's uh supermarket. Over towards the right, the building over to the left is the liquor store, the dental office, and H&R Block. Uh so we are proposing a Chipotle restaurant with additional retail space. Uh right there on Belmont Street. Uh this is the signalized intersection. Just to the left of the intersection is the Bank of America and Taco Bell. Uh so as all you folks know, there's the existing uh Boulevard entrance that comes in off of Belmont Street to get into the Shaw Plaza. Uh there's a curb cut right in this location here. And then at that point, it's pretty much a free-for-all through the plaza and and all the way down out to the next plaza and ultimately out to uh back out to West Street. Uh so we've had this proposed plan kicking around with the planning board uh for almost a year now and and uh the new thing with these Chipotle restaurants, they have a a pickup window uh a drive up pickup window, not necessarily a drive-through lane. can't order there, but for mobile orders, you can come across and uh and pick up at the Chipotle lane is what they call it. So, because of that, with all of these fast food restaurants with drive up windows, uh it kind of gets messy dropping them into an existing parking area with existing traffic flows. So, in working with the planning department, uh we came up with a uh a scheme that basically creates this

boulevard entrance right here. Right now there is no uh landscaped islands within the parking area at Shaws. So we're proposing these three landscaped islands across the travel way. Uh we'll be curbing in another landscape island. So this will force anybody that wants to go to Chipotle or the retail space to enter all the way around and uh and swing around. The drive-thru lane [clears throat] uh would then come across this way exiting back out uh either into the plaza or out onto the the driveway to get out onto Belmont Street. Uh the other good thing that we talk about with these redevelopment projects, these old plazas that have been there uh for all of our lifetimes really don't have any uh any drainage and any drainage that they do have certainly don't meet storm water guidelines that we deal with currently. So, uh, the best thing about these redevelopments is we get to to take a a portion of the parking lot and get it into our, uh, modern drainage system and, uh, and get some storm water management and get some clean water going back into the into the groundwater as opposed to everything sheet flowing, uh, across the parking area. Uh besides that on on this one uh madam chair the one thing that came up with the planning board um through the tech review process looking at the Starbucks that you folks approved a few years ago just down the road uh there's a lot of pedestrian traffic where people kind of cut through the landscaped areas that were proposed and uh the landscaping really hasn't had much of a chance to take at the Starbucks. Uh so because of that uh Evan uh requested that we put a uh a short fence just a 3-ft high rod iron fence pretty much across uh the front of our uh of our Chipotle site uh right on Belmont Street just to prevent people from from cutting through the landscaped

islands. Uh, as you can see, this green area, we've got considerable landscaping proposed and that fence also [clears throat] uh continues down the roadway uh and kind of alongside our building. So, it'll really force any pedestrians to continue using the sidewalks and the facilities uh to get around to the front of the building. Uh so, we've done that. We do have, as I said, extensive landscaping proposed. Right now, when you drive through the plaza, within the parking area itself, there is no landscaping at all. There is some landscaping at the boulevard entrance. Uh we're proposing uh trees to be planted within those landscaped areas and also some additional uh additional plantings along this landscaped area to beat Mr. Sweeney to the punch. I will show you the landscape plan. And we do have uh some shrubs proposed along Belmont Street. not the big trees. Uh but we do have a series of shrubs proposed all the way down the street within that landscaped area. Uh so hopefully that would uh that would suffice and take care of it. There's uh with all of these uh you know with all of these uh retail spots in the lease, they they have certain uh requirements as to what we can do in front of the building. Obviously with Chipotle and the other retail space being pretty close to the street, they wouldn't be thrilled if we had trees uh you know either maple trees or the other birch tree proposed right in front of the site and cutting down on their uh on their visibility. So hopefully in this case the the shrubbery we have across the front will uh will suffice and will satisfy the board. Uh any questions? I'd love to answer. Madam [clears throat] Chair,

no I don't have any um other board members. Man, chair Scott, I just have to tell you, I think this is great. Number one, I love Chipotle first [laughter] first and foremost, but number two, the Shaw's parking lot is a nightmare. It is because there's absolutely no no directed ways to go. So, this is going to really improve the site. And I love the Chipotle Lane. Is that what you said? That's what it is, Miss Growl. So, you can call ahead, get there, your food will be ready. You don't have to get out of your car and you drive up the Chipotle lane. Perfect. Very clever. All right, that's all I have. Madam Chair, you're like Santa Claus tonight, Scott. Exactly. Yes, [laughter] ma'am.

Madam Chair, I do I do have two points uh to address. So, Scott, um this drive-thru is a little bit unique in the fact that the car lane aims towards the street. So when you're sitting there waiting for your food, the cars and the headlights aim towards the stop vehicles on the street at Belmont. Am I correct in saying that? Yes. Right in this area here. So what is blocking that? So if you're at that stop light, are you just are you just taking on the headlights from the side? Is there any shrubbery that's blocking that? It's it's unique because none of the other drive-throughs on that street aim at the street. You're right. when you're at when you're at the window.

It is interesting. And uh we we have this uh these shrubs proposed here, but again, the they're lowlying shrubs. Really nothing that's going to uh that's going to block that. As I said, we've got the the fence proposed, but it's a rod iron fence. That's certainly not going to uh not going to give us any shield from the lights, Mr. Sweeney. No, I mean would one midsize in that green space, you know, I don't think that would kill vis visibility to a giant Chipotle, but on the low, you know, if it's chest level, it might block from, you know, glaring light with people at the light. Just see what we have proposed there. Uh, I [snorts] can just see my

Jim. Is it the same as McDonald's? McDonald's is goes it's parallel to the street. Yeah, the McDonald's you're going along Belmont and then you're heading back towards the plaza. But these [clears throat] shrubs here, Mr. Sweeney, these seven shrubs that I've got right here. Uh those are the the compact junipers, which hopefully I've got a picture. Yeah. How how tall do they get? I mean, well, when you're at McDonald's, if we're going to nitpick, I mean, you're when you're ordering your food, the your headlights are facing directly onto Belmont. So, I there at that point. Thank you, ma'am. I don't think this is um um you got a car in front of you, though, so it's it would block it.

I mean, no, not always. [snorts] I I think honestly, Mr. Sweeney, the these are planted at 18 inches high. Okay. You know, so they're going to grow. So, you know, your headlights are 30 inches off the ground. So, I I think those would provide a little bit of that screening that you're looking for ultimately. Okay. All right. And I guess I'll move on to my other issue. So, this entire lot does not you I think you had said does not conform to the green space that's sufficient for any any development. Correct.

Correct. So, you know, one thing that I thought of, so you don't want to block anything in front of the, you know, in front on Belmont Street. However, it looks a little lopsided with the development on the left and then there's just open parking, you know, massive parking lot to the right. Would there be any chance of you do you see where the fence comes to an end at the right side where that iron? Yeah. Right there. Yep. So, and this is all on one parcel, correct? Yes.

So would it be too much to take the next parking spots going the other direction on that whole lot and even out the parking spots? So if that's what 23 spots until you get to that point right there. Yep. So if you went and for that middle section as deep as you know as deep as the parking lot spot is all the way over till you get to 23 on the other side and you had a middle section of green with curbing. It would at least even out the parking lot [clears throat] even out that whole area because when you know with one development on one side it's

and [clears throat] plus the property doesn't meet green space. I think it's a nice counterbalance to at least create some drainage through that and opening up that to green space in the middle and then you still have parking on the other side if in the future you're going to do something else. Just so I'm clear. So you're talking right in this area here. Yeah. I've got 25 spaces from from the corner to this landscaped island. So you're saying go another 25 down Belmont Street and put another landscaped island. So let's just say from the other from the opposite end count 25 spots and then whatever is in that middle section it might be 15 to 20 spots. I got you

as deep as you know as whatever size rectangle that is make that all green space and retain it with curving that that way it it looks a little better and if we can get some trees in that space it will not block the visibility. However, it'll look a lot better from the street and to the public and the community. It'll Yeah. It'll be symmetrical those two landscaped islands. Yeah. Yeah, we we can certainly do that. Mrs. Sweeney, I'm just not sure how many spaces that may be in a motion.

It's it's one space. That's pretty much what we do. The the spaces are uh as you know, they're 9 by 20 spaces. We pretty much just keep going 9 feet and block off one of them for for landscaping. So, it doesn't mess up the the existing striping that's out there. They would just put the curbing within one of those spaces. So, it's okay. You know, it's a relatively easy fix. But it would be that whole middle section. Just so we're on the same page. Yes. Almost as large as the parking you've got on the street towards Belmont Street on that section. It's about that big. It's probably almost 20 spots. Oh, you All right. So, I'm I'm I I was misunderstanding. So, you're saying losing 20 spaces

on the right side. It's You don't have it on the map there, but it's on the parcel. [clears throat] You don't Do you Do you see what I'm saying? Yep. Let me just try to get to the overall plan. Here we go. So, here's the overall plan. Okay. So, here's where our fence ends. Here's that proposed landscape island. Okay. So, I mean, essenti essentially since it's like that, I didn't know the fence went all that deep.

I mean, if you had a nice rectangle chunk off the front that you could, you know, I don't know what that may be. If you want to leave another, it'll be less than 25. But to have a middle section that kind of balances the whole thing. One, two. Yeah. So, what we've got now, we've got 25 spaces here. Yeah. And then 17 on the other side. I mean, if you could do 10 spots, at least it would be towards the middle. Does the Do you need up until that gate? Yeah. The the uh the problem, Mr. Sweeney, we're we're right at uh we're right at the zoning and unless the zoning ever got rewritten for the the parking requirements, but for parking. Okay. So, you have to be on the other side of that.

Yeah, we're right. That's no big deal. Yeah. [clears throat] I mean, if you could leave seven spots and have the middle 10 green, I I think that would that would be great. I think that gives that property a little bit more green space, especially in the front. It doesn't block Chipotle. [snorts] I I would agree. It would just we would then be in uh in zoning violation. How is that? You know, for the for the parking spaces where for the plaza? No. No. So, you don't need all the spots in the on the property, right?

No, we do. We've I've got one extra space entirely. We've got 386 spaces. And uh actually, I I don't We need three We have 386 and we need 386. So you you need every space on that lot. According to zoning, [clears throat] realistically, no. But according to zoning, yes. [snorts] I don't know. I just without it, I just think it still looks kind of like a mess. But that's just me being honest. You know, I think you need some green in front of that massive lot, but it is what it is. Any other questions, board members?

Yeah, Madam Chair. I guess uh just to follow up on James thing, could we provide a waiver for that or no? Uh zoning, it would have to go to the ZBA. Yes, the ZBA. Okay. Um I guess my question um is more in regards to like that sidewalk that exists on uh Belmont going onto the um the plaza because right now it doesn't look like there's going to be an extension of that sidewalk. Um I don't know if that's something that cuz we're talking about pedestrians walking uh you know in that area. I I imagine students from Brockton High trying to go to that Chipotle or trying to go to Shaw.

Uh there is that I love that you guys added that uh crosswalk right there. Um but if we are thinking there's that um sidewalk over there in that intersection uh you know students are already um you know dealing with the the traffic they're walking into traffic uh sometimes on that road. So I don't know if if you all have considered extending that sidewalk uh a little further up.

Yeah, I we really didn't. the the crosswalk right here was something that was brought up by the planning department. Uh you know, so there's getting across the street from Brockton High, there's another crosswalk uh across the the entrance to the plaza that would get you to this sidewalk and then uh another concrete sidewalk here and would get you into our plaza and if you needed to, you could go around and get to the get to the shores. So that would be the most direct route and get you uh you know get you off of the the traveled way as as quick as possible. So that that was the solution we came up with the planning department.

Okay. Yeah. I guess uh it as long as we're thinking about how people are moving on foot with this space. Um the other difficulty is this heavy line right here is the limit of the state highway layout in the sidewalk ends right here. So we've got whatever that is 15 or 20 feet uh of your construction would need a state highway permit which isn't okay necessarily easy to get since it you know it isn't controlled by us. It's the state that would make it pretty difficult especially since it's a newly constructed uh roadway and sidewalk system. [cough]

All right. Um, yeah. I mean, I think the solution that you guys currently have makes sense. Um, and then for if they are going to leave Chipotle to continue walking onto uh that parking lot to go to Shaw, how do you all imagine that working out? We do have sidewalks all the way around the building. Uh and then from there I you know I think it's just uh they would just walk it you know through the parking area as you would currently. Okay.

But we can at least get people you know safely around our building with our proposed sidewalks. Um, would you be I guess like I'm I'm trying I'm just trying to think like how could we at least communicate to because that is that area is already pretty difficult for you know vehicles moving through that parking lot and if uh and I and I know we're like trying to reconfigure it to make it safer for all users. Is there any way we communicate like that walkers are cross would be crossing to go towards Shaws? Like could we add a crosswalk where that um A is or we could certainly uh I mean again it's Yeah, I mean it's private property. We we don't you know we wouldn't have any issue turning a putting a crosswalk right in this area. Uh

yeah, I'm just I'm just trying to think of different solutions. No, I Yeah, I understand what you're saying. Just to make people aware of uh primarily kids cutting through the parking lot. We we could certainly put a crosswalk in that area. Great. Thank you. So, if this um passes and we'd want to make that a condition, [snorts] please. Okay. Um, thank you Londo. Any any other questions? All right. I'll open up to public. Madam chair, there is nobody here. Okay. Is there a motion?

Motion to approve with standard conditions. Uh, in addition to adding the crosswalk. Is there a second? Second. All right, roll call. Matthew, yes. James, yes. Marty, yes. Yolando, yes. Tony, yes. All right. [snorts] Um, now we'll move backwards to the Thank you, folks. Time. [clears throat] Good night. Good night.

Excuse me. Going backwards to the ANR for Elden Keith Field. Evan.

All right, let me let me pull this up. I forgot how to do. All right. So there was uh this was submitted as an ANR meaning they are saying that uh this does not require the planning [clears throat] board's approval to move forward and are asking the board to v basically verify that fact. Um, unfortunately, uh, after my review, I disagree that this qualifies as an ANR. This, uh, to me, this shows a subdivision. This is splitting one piece of property into two lots, as you can see, lot one and two. Uh, just in case you guys don't know where where this is, this is actually the the big field uh, behind the Boys and Girls Club, and this is part of the Boys and Girls Club uh, project. uh which is a great project, but that's irrelevant to what we're looking at now. Basically just kind of making a determination on if if this meets a legal threshold or not and how they go forward with [clears throat] the submission. Uh so uh again right now uh since lot one the little one on the side here has no frontage

[snorts]

uh and it's required this the the zone it's in R3 is required 100 ft of frontage. Uh this is basically they you can't really do this. Um, if this was extended all the way to West Elm and it had 100 ft, then this would be this would hit the requirements for an ANR and you wouldn't have to go through the subdivision process. As it's drafted right now, this would need to be resubmitted as a definitive subdivision. Now, this can be fixed very easily by just changing changing some wording around on this. they just need to revise some wording and then it could qualify as an ANR. Uh [clears throat] spoke to the applicant about that. They were going to do it and I've never heard back from them. I reached out to them again and I still have never heard back from them. So, uh my recommendation to the board is to make a finding that this shows a subdivision. Uh and then if the applicant [clears throat] revises it, resubmits it revised then as an ANR then they can just go forward.

But as [clears throat] it stands now, I would not endorse this as an ANR. So basically we need a motion to approve or deny this ANR. So I would with the recommendation. [snorts] Yeah. So, what I would do for a motion is I would uh say motion to determine this shows a subdivision. That that's what I would kind of do it as because you're because you're what you're doing is making a finding whether this shows a subdivision or not and whether it needs approval or not.

All right. Um board members, do you have questions? Yeah, I'm just curious, you know, if this didn't meet the standard, you know, why was it even on the agenda? Well, because the board has to make a decision one way or the other. That's basically why they're coming to you. They're saying, "Hey, we think it's this. Do you guys agree with me or not?" What What's the Do we have a reasoning as to why it was it is the way it is? Why they made this way? I'm not sure. I don't know if they just did it incorrectly or not. I have already brought the deficiencies up to them and told them what they need to fix in order for it to be able to go forward and I just haven't heard back from them. So, I don't I don't I don't know.

How did you um communicate this to them, Evan? On the phone. I had I had a phone conversation with them. Phone conversation. Yep. And then I reached out to them in email again as a followup. So, you do have it in writing. Okay. Good. [snorts] Well, [clears throat] uh, Evan, does it the entrance is near the easement or close to? Am I correct? So, right now, you don't look at the whole project. You're just looking at the lots that are being created. Yeah. But I know the whole I know what the whole project is. So, it does matter why it's mapped out the way it is.

Sure. But also it doesn't a little bit because again this is literally just for how they is this is basically making a determination for how they submit and how an approval process goes forward. I guess I guess I'm just afraid of it going back and forth back and forth. I mean how do we avoid that? Because if there is a legitimate issue here you know here we go again you know.

So so I'll tell you exactly how they can fix this. They can rename lot two to lot one. They can rename lot one to parcel A. They can add a note on here that says not a buildable lot. And they can add they can get rid of this note that talks about a variance that's irrelevant. And instead add into that what the uh intention for this piece of property is, which is really to be um what's it called? It's going to be added to the one over here that has the Boys and Girls Club on it. So, if they write that out and say that this is not to be used on its own, it it's it's it's seems nitpicky, but it's just the the legal precedent for how to deal with this and they just need to change some wording on it and then they could have this could have been taken care of weeks ago. So, I'm not sure why they haven't

I don't the lack of response is is um just silly. They could have just responded and cooperated and it wouldn't even it wouldn't wouldn't be before us. So, right. And just just let me be clear, if you guys determine this as a subdivision, it's not a denial. It's not like they can't come back. It just means that they can't go forward to the registry yet. They either have to come back with this plan through you guys as a subdivision or they have to revise their plan so it meets the qualification so they can just go forward to the registry. Evan, could we just could we just postpone this? I know that I work very closely with the Boys and Girls Club in Metro South. Unfortunately,

I hate to like postpone them or delay them. You know, they do a lot of like great things for our local community. Um, so let me just So there's no way to it's again this this is the applicants shortcomings.

Just again, I I'm all for this project. I hate that it's taken so long. It's kind of frustrating that they're doing sloppy things like this, but this is unfortunately the Mass General law. And unfortunately, uh, there's a time limit to when the board has to make a decision on these. So there there's no you got, yeah, you can't really push it back or anything. You have to make a determination one way or the other. And again, it's not based on how you feel about anything. It's basically like this either meets a legal threshold or it doesn't. It's it's one or the other. And then and again, not it's not it's it's not going to affect anything really. He could they could make these revisions, send the new plan into us tomorrow and be good moving forward. So,

but would they still have to wait for the the next meeting for us to approve the ANR? We will talk about that in the next item. But it like before we discuss that as it as everything stands right now, is that a yes or no? Um I honestly because we would essentially have to approve it if they resubmitted the the work, right? They unless we approved it today contingent upon them changing it.

You can't do that because as soon as you guys make a determination that it doesn't need approval, it's now out of your authority and you cannot resend that or do anything else. Even if even if it's incorrect. Can Madam Chair, can I just jump in? Sure. Evan Evan, are you saying that if this is not a subdivision? It is, but they don't want it to be. So, they have to take it back and make it an ANR.

Yeah. So, so there's there's a legal definition for what a subdivision is. Uh, and anything that falls within that legal definition needs to go through the definitive subdivision process and be approved by the board. uh if it doesn't hit those threshold to be a legal subdivision, then it doesn't need the approval of the board. They technically can just go forward to the registry. They don't actually legally need you guys to endorse this. It's good practice because it has your eyes on it and your verification that they're not trying to do something that they shouldn't. But [clears throat] uh as far as I'm aware actually, so Matt, this actually might answer your question. There there was legal precedent set a few years ago from a case in Brockton, I believe, uh that says as long as a plan basically qualifies as an ANR, mean like approval not required, that they can move forward. Now, I don't know how that works logistically, who reviews that, [clears throat] but um I I don't I I don't think kicking this back tonight will really affect the project at all. As long as they just do what they're supposed to, which there's no reason for them not to

as long as they resubmit it the way that you had suggested. Yeah. which realist the way that you've described it shouldn't be an issue for them to do because they're not planning on using right now lot one as anything buildable right like I said I know this seems a little nitpicky but it's it's legal stuff we have to be accurate yeah I I I feel like you've been very helpful and I asked how you communicated you had a conversation then followed up with an email and [clears throat] then there was no response so I'm all for the boys and girls up too. But where's where's the followup in to the suggestion that he offered? So, [snorts] um well, it's the law

open up. We don't have to open up this to um public, right? No, this is not a public for uh Okay. Is there a motion? I'd like to make the motion, but I don't know exactly what it is. Evan, are you saying that we should we should So I So what I would what I would do is I would uh what would I say? I would say um you're basically making a finding. So you want to you're determining that this is a subdivision. So the motion is basically um I make a motion to uh yeah determine this is a subdivision. I guess

you're either going to pass it or or pass it as ANR or not. If we deny it, Evan, uh are they able to still resubmit? Yeah. There. This is again, this is not a public hearing or anything like that. You're not even if you determine it's a subdivision. It's not a denial. It's just you're just saying no, this is not correct for us. Like as it is now, you can't move this forward without our approval. Now, they can just go back and change it which is correct. motion to not move forward with with an approval. [clears throat]

Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, you can you can do you can So, basically, if you basically what what you're trying to do here is determine whether this shows a legal subdivision or not. So, if you find that it's a legal subd so basically the denial in this point would be you finding that this is a a subdiv a legal subdivision. So, if you say like, you know, motion that the board determines that this is a uh meets the qualifications of a legal subdivision and then everyone says that, then that would kick it back for them to either revise or come back uh resubmit through the definitive subdivision process, which I don't which they're not going to want to do.

I don't know why they would do that anyways because again, they just have to change some wording around and they're fine. All right. So, the motion I make the motion that we determine this as as a legal subdivision. And I second that motion. Okay. Roll call. Um James, yes. [clears throat] Matthew, yes. [snorts] Yolando, yes. Marty, yes. Tony. Yes. All right, Tony, you're getting sicker.

I know. I need [clears throat] to take and get to bed. [snorts] Um, so now we're off to the last item on the agenda, which is an ANR discussion. What is this about?

So, this touches exactly on Matt's concern about having to wait to next month to re-review one of these. uh the board can delegate that review authority to the planning department staff if they want to. Uh it's in it's in your subdivision rules and regs uh that you can delegate that it basically instead of having to bring it to a meeting and have the board make the determination. We can do it administratively in the planning department. meaning somebody comes in and we can look it over and say, "Yep, that's an ANR." And we can you can they can endorse it right away and they're off. They don't have to worry about waiting. And if it's not, and in this case, I can say, "Oh, nope, it's not." Go back and fix it and come back instead of having to wait for the next meeting for you guys to make the decision again. Uh there's also per mass law these are supposed to be the board is supposed to make a action on these within 21 days of proper submittal or else they get um constructively approved. Uh, and since you guys only meet, you know, we only have meetings once a month, that opens the possibility up for somebody to throw something in, you know, saying it's an ANR right after like one meeting, having a 21-day period up before the next meeting, and then getting it approved. Now, it might not have been a subdivision. It's it's honestly, it opens up. To get around that, you either need to have a meeting every other week

or you run the risk of people taking advantage of that to circumvent subdivision control and board approval on things. Now, I don't know if that actually will happen, but it is a possibility. So like if this was submitted prior to the 21, you know, 21 days ago or 22 days ago, this would have automatically been approved because we hadn't we wouldn't have met. And so actually and so and so actually um I didn't mention but actually this was submitted over 21 days ago, but they didn't do the proper submission procedure with the clerk, so it doesn't count.

But yes, otherwise it would have been. Evan, how could we make a a clause in there that you can't submit one of these until you're within 21 days of a meeting? Why are we allowing Why are we allowing them to come in on their terms? Why don't we allow Why don't we put Well, I Yeah. No, I don't I don't It's because a lot of the submission is regulated by state law. Um, and basically we can't tell them not to do that. They just have if they But what's the what's the submit? What's the state law for submission?

They have to uh I forget but they have to go they have to go and get something official from the clerk uh like a certified mail and everything. Um do you know how other towns are handling city or towns are handling this 21day period? So, a lot of I know a lot of towns they meet twice a month. We had been doing it as like a waiver uh with the submission. It could still be they could still do that if you want to. The law department has kind of said that's not the best way to do things. Um [clears throat] I don't

What is your suggestion? What is your suggestion that we um take a vote on allowing the department to decide if it's ANR and then we sign off on So what yeah I I mean my suggestion is is yeah let me handle it for you guys. Um if there's ever an issue that someone disagrees with my decision they can always request to come to the board because it's technically your authority. But how would we know about it Evan? Honestly, like once it gets How would we ever know about it?

Uh, we can we can just figure out how we want to do that. I mean, if you want if you decided to do that and you guys wanted to keep up, I could email you every time one comes in with it and my what my decision if you want. Uh, I don't know what what do you guys I mean it's all it's all up to you. I was just my per as one board member. I think that's what the board's job is and that's the separation of the board and the department. Mhm.

Do you think that it would make sense to have if we did I mean, how often did this does it happen where we get submissions and we miss the 21day mark and they automatically get approved without coming in front of us? Is it often? Um, honestly, it might be one of those things that happens more than it should and just no one's paying attention. Well, and why can't we go with Jim James suggestion with submissions have to be with, you know, within 21 days of So, if you want I can look into this more if you want. We can we can you don't have to make a decision tonight. Yeah. Talk to us.

It's fine. Let's see. Um I will say though that that will affect this though because then I'll have to send this back to you guys next month. And that's that's fine. But can you please um get this in front of legal with James suggestion and see if that's something that we can Sure. vote into. Okay. So sure. So just if I'm getting this just make sure we're on the same page. So you guys want to make sure you guys want all these to come before you still to be able to have your eyes on these and make these decisions. We want to figure out more so if we can change the backend process to uh you know not deal with some of the issues that could arise from that.

Okay. Well, the 21 day they have to submit it, you know, with the within the 21. I'll look into that. I can't guarantee that we can do anything about that, but I'll I'll look I'll Yeah, I'll see what there is. Chat with legal are doing too. No problem. No problem. Okay. Well, there we go. That was just a discussion. So, no no vote needed. Uh that's that.

All right. Um so quickly before we adjourn, I just want to um congratulate our newly elected [snorts] um mayor um Moses Rodriguez, congratulations and our other city councilors um and other officials. They have a lot of work to do for us. I feel like I've been on this board um a hundred years and we've passed a lot of things and we've we've had some new businesses come and some growth, but um the city is just financially, you know, we need a lot more um businesses and growth coming into the city and hopefully this new government body can help our beautiful city of Brockton. So on that note, [snorts] is there a motion to adjurnn?

Motion to adjurnn. Second. Second. All right. Roll call. Marty, yes. [snorts] Yolando, yes. Matthew, yes. James, yes. And Tony, yes. All right. Good night all. Feel bad, Tony. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Good night, everyone.