Public Safety Committee - Regular Meeting

Thank you. I call order this uh January 7th meeting of the public safety committee. You have a roll call, please. Alderwoman Sims here. Alderman Gold here. Audible Harter here. And Auda here. Thank you.

Next item on the agenda is the approval of that agenda. Has everybody had a chance to look at it? And is there anybody that wants to make any additions or redactions? Seeing none, the agenda will stand as submitted. The next uh item on our agenda is citizen comments. If anybody either in the audience or online has any issue with which they want to bring to the attention of the public safety committee, I will give you up to three minutes. Um, it is not a forum for conversation, but it is an opportunity for you to make comments. Uh, please state your name and your address. Steuart Clark, 2331 St. Clair Avenue, St. Louis, Missouri 631.

Good to see you. Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you all. appreciate you uh serving and coming out this this evening and working for the city of Brentwood. Um while I was watching on YouTube the board of alderman meeting, I noticed that this was going to happen. So, I thought I would just come up quickly and offer my assistance because I know you're talking about ebikes. And um as you all know, I've had a lot of experience on on cycling, but especially in the last 10 years on ebikes. So, I've converted all of our bikes to ebikes and um that includes regular bicycles, um tandem bicycles and trikes and tandem trikes and some trikes for uh handicap people. So, um, what I'm dropping off today, I know that this [clears throat] is probably, uh, has a lot to do with young kids out on ebikes acting a fool. And, you know, uh, riding recklessly and certainly, um, you know, our law enforcement needs to be able to correct that situation and do something when they when something happens like that. But sometimes when laws are passed, inadvertently, they can affect other riders. And in the case of ebikes, these are generally people who are a little bit older and who need some assistance in riding. And there's a couple little uh attributes about ebikes that I wanted to make you aware of. So, so you were aware of it. And [clears throat] I know you're going to hear about class 3 pedal assist bikes, what they call class 3 ebikes, which is usually something that says it's over under 750 watt. So, it has a motor on it that's 750 watts. They generally can go up faster than that. And they only provide motor when you're pedaling.

Okay? And uh they don't have a throttle. So, I have an ebike and it's a class 3 750 watt eBike, but it has a throttle. And the throttle is very important from a safety standpoint because I've got two people on this bike and they need to get the bike rolling. So having an independent throttle is critical for safety. It's also critical for while we're in traffic that we have an independent throttle. So um I've got a little document here that I'll leave with you all. You can you can check it when you will, but it says why ebikes, including those with independent throttles, are safer than regular bikes. So, I'm not going to go through it, but you can read it. But it really talks about what I'm talking about. When you when a bike gets moving, it needs to be stable. And when you're older or heavier or you have two people on a bike, you need to reach that stability so you don't fall over. And having a bike that only assists you when you pedal it, as it starts to engage is is problematic and it's really not as safe as being able to, you know, the light changes, you hit the throttle, the bike begins to move and then you can catch up. Those bikes also assist. As soon as we start pedaling, then you also get some assist with it and then you can let off the throttle. So keep that in mind when you read about ebike regulations that an independent throttle is actually a good thing. I guess the other thing I wanted to leave you with as I reviewed the state of Missouri laws and everything is really as it pertains to Brentwood because when we put in the Brentwood boundary, remember we built a 10-ft wide shared use path on the south side of Brent on the south side of Brentwood Boulevard. Very critical. And now we have crossways. So yesterday I was out on my bicycle and and on my ebicycle and when I went to cross Manchester Road, I

went up to the the traffic flashing crossing area. It's not a red light as you know, it just flashes. And it was to get off by the U kitchen conservatory. And I stop there and slowly edge out into the traffic way until someone sees me and then they stop and then everybody stops. And it's great. Um but it's really really important. But what's more important is that there's a 10- foot wide shared use path on the south side of Brentwood Boulevard. So we don't want to restrict the use of bicycles because that's so important because without that with that then it allows Nancy and I to you know leave our house in Brentwood. We can go buy Starbucks, get on our trail system which we built in the city of Brown because we were ahead of our time and then get on the Great Rivers screenway and go under the path and get on that 10 10 foot shared use path and safely ride. Now, we're not hitting the gas and going 20 miles an hour there. Sure, there's limits on that, but um so I have another thing says where you can ride and it says roads and bike lanes, multi-use path and trails like the ones that we have and then also sidewalks. So, you want to be careful when you're looking at ebike restrictions when they say we don't want we don't want anybody riding on sidewalks. Okay. Well, sidewalks is really important. Uh they're super important too when you're riding a tricycle because say you're on a trike, you know, you're a little bit wider, you're a little bit lower, you see some traffic coming either for you or against you, and you say, you know, I think it's be time. I think I'll just roll over here and just get up on the sidewalk because at 36 inches there's there's room. and then you know when you can you can get back out on the road. So I have these three documents where you can ride what a class three pedal assist bike is and why ebikes including those with independent throttles are safer than regular bikes. And I just wanted to to bring those up and give those to you guys and and think about it. And then if you have any questions about ebikes or

somebody tells you something about ebikes and and you don't understand it, just call me and you know we can kick it around. Thanks [clears throat] Stuart. Thank you.

Good [clears throat] evening. My name is Mark Ables, ABLS. Uh I live at 2015 St. Clair and like Stu and Nancy, my wife and I have a tandem electrified bicycle which under the class one 123s would qualify as a class 3 bike. And we've put since I installed the electric power on it, we've put uh 2500 to 3,000 miles on it. And uh uh I've never uh had an accident uh that where I'd run into somebody or hit a car. So we can operate it very safely. The problem as I see it and I see it a lot is that um uh children, boys mostly, but children uh in the age range of 4 to 14 uh are getting on these uh uh powered bikes uh some of which have the little throttles on them. Uh, and they are riding around without helmets and they were zooming through stop signs and you know I I see this two or three times a week in our over here in the Park Ridge neighborhood. Yeah. Just about two days ago I was coming up the hill from Brentwood Forest and there was a young man I'd say he was nine or 10. His helmet was hanging on the handlebar because it was, you know, got not comfortable, I guess. And he was, you know, doing tricks and zooming around to impress the nine or 10 year old girls who were riding their regular bikes. Um, I have seen uh our our next door neighbors have younger children. They don't have the ebikes, but I have seen uh parked in front of their house a powered bicycle uh with a throttle. All

five could possibly have used it. Five was and you know this this stuff is getting crazy. So there has to be and I I know you're trying to address this. I've read about the proposed ordinances and I'm happy to see the way it's moving. Uh but you know, this is a matter of parenting. Uh I'd like to blame these kids, but you know, they only do what they know they can get away with. I remember I was a kid sometime early in the last century, and I did that, too. Um uh we've got to have a law that says when you're 5 years old, you can't go zooming around on one of these things. And when you're old enough uh uh to ride an electric bike, and you you don't have to be 16 to do it, but when you're old enough to do it, you have to wear a helmet. Uh it's it's it's as crazy to ride a bike without a helmet. Uh whether it's an electric bike or a standard bike as it is to ride a motorcycle without a helmet. And I know that's legal in Missouri now, too, but you would never see me doing it. So I think that's that's the key issue you have to address is you look at that class one, class two, class three. Class one is the kind of bike where it only has pedal assist and it has a maximum it has a maximum speed of 20 and pedal assist means that when you are pedaling the uh battery and the motor will help you pedal and as soon as you stop pedaling it all shuts down. So, it really is just an assist. Uh, you can't make it go without pedaling it like a bicycle. And I I think, frankly, if I had a 10-year-old kid and he wanted to get one of those, I'd get one for him and I'd give him a helmet and I'd tell him if I ever uh saw him without the helmet riding the bike, the bike was going away forever. But so it can be

done, but uh the lawyer considering to encourage parents to be a little more involved in these decisions uh would be good uh and would probably uh save some kid from getting tossed off a bike and getting severe head injuries someday. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else?

My name's Sue Cronin. Uh 2645 Salem. Mine's a little different. Um I was um recently aware that we have a sexual offender who lives nearby. Um my daughter lives on Mary Kay and this offender lives on Ule which you have to go on ukulele to get out of Mary Kay. Um, I don't know how far into things you want me to go. Um, other than this gentleman was convicted on six counts of female sodomy. He was working at the Kirkwood Massage Lux. Um, when this transpired, the judge issued a 5-year sentence. He served three months and was put on probation. So, he is now living on ukulele. Um, and I'm just a little uncomfortable with that. I have a daughter and granddaughter that live, as I said, around the corner. There's a lot of little kids that live right around him, not to mention Mark Twain School. Um this is not the purview of this you know Brentwood to monitor him or to um decide what his sentencing is. I understand that. I just what can we do to make our citizenry aware that this situation's going on? I will add that in the court documents, it states in the order that this particular gentleman is not to work in a massage

therapy setting. Currently, where he is living, his dad operates a business out of the home. He's a chiropractor and a massage therapist. This gentleman is also supposed to be employed. I see him all the time. So, I don't know where he's working and if he's at the home or working out of the home, that is a violation of that order. So, anything that anybody can help me with on this, I've got his address. I have spoken to the mayor. I have spoken to Alderwoman Michelle. Thank you. Thank you. Um about this, so they also have information. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Anybody else? Is there anybody online? [clears throat]

Okay. Thank you. And I'll close citizen comments and move on to reports of the committee chair. As the chairman, I do not have a report. Uh Aldwoman Sims, no report. Thank you. Ald Alderman Gold, no report. Thank you. Aldwoman Harter, just want to say um I was at the um early childhood center today and Red came and it was a big deal and the kids loved it and officer Petite was just fantastic with the kids and the way they asked all these silly questions and he just answered them so seriously and it just it just made made my day. It was just wonderful. So, thank you.

Uh number five, we have a city administrator report. We do not have a report. Thank you very much. Now we're moving on to the department reports. First is the police department. [snorts] [clears throat and cough]

Happy new year.

Happy new year. Uh under the crime report, I'm kind of being the uh chief's messenger tonight. He wanted you guys to know that on January 28th, he wanted to do a comprehensive year-end crime report. So, I'm currently punting that to him. Um, I will tease that that crime is down across some of our major categories. The next item would be the uh re retail holiday detail that we deploy from Black Friday until New Year's Eve. Uh, that was very well staffed and very well received by the businesses that I spoke to because the officers are so visible. In fact, some statistics during that time in our retail areas, we had only had six documented shopliftings and five arrests were made and all five of those arrests were in at during the crime was being committed. It wasn't a follow-up. The retail officers made the arrest as the calls came out. Next item would be we started in December 22 officers completed training from the 0311 tactical. uh they were trying them out for our um scenario-based training. Uh I observed three of the four sessions. I'd say that it's incredibly effective to get some people from the outside to take a look at our officers and see what kind of tactics we're deploying and the feedback we're receiving uh has been very good. Uh we have three of the employees of the company. Two of them I know pretty well. These were officers that retired um experienced a lot in their careers, so they have a lot to offer and um a lot of advice to give from their experience. Under the uh PD kitchen update, it was a mild renovation. Full disclosure, my notes say it was not very exciting, but it was under budget, so that's good. And then uh just a note

uh so year end we're kind of looking at some of the things that happened throughout the year. So there will be four chief's letters of commendation to four officers actually from one incident and then we'll eventually have be voting on our officer of the year and both of those items we're going to add to a board of alderman agenda coming up. So any questions? I I actually have one and it has to do with one of our public comments, the woman that spoke with regard to the I'm assuming that she got the information from the registry that's required to be maintained by the state of Missouri.

Do you get ever get complaints from neighbors uh suggesting that somebody is violating the terms of their parole? or if you do, what do you do with it? Not that often, but typically what I can say is right now we are investigating that that's been made that's been brought to our attention. Okay. So, we're currently in contact with that person's parole officer. Um, basically the guidance we're given as far as the notification to the public, the state registry just looks at it as the registry is online. That's our notification to the public.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much for that. Uh our fire department. Oh, he's online. Yes. Uh good evening from Orlando. Uh doing a mic check. Happy New Year, Ed. Thank you. You bet.

Uh yeah, I appreciate you guys uh giving some grace. I know this was a presscheduled family vacation, but uh I was able to the flight was a little early, so I was able to find a soft spot here in the hotel. So uh basically all I have is the uh the monthly update uh from the December meeting that was missed. Probably uh most important of note is uh the hiring process as you know with Chief Castrol resigning and also have a resignation from uh firefighter paramedic Cosmos. Uh we have uh two active openings. So we do have a hiring process that uh reopen application period uh that'll end next Friday. And then we have uh testing on the 20th, 22nd, and 24th as noted in the uh in the documented air conditions. Um I anticipate um a lot of activity on that. Um and more than likely an eligibility list uh in anticipation of uh perhaps some other retirement and movement later on of the year. So um if we do get a list, it'll be a year uh it'll be good for a year. So, we'll be in good shape if we have any other any other vacancies. Uh, the training tower is progressing um as scheduled. Uh, we're still on track for um occupying that, started using it in the early spring. And then the new fire engine continues also to be on track. The last communication we had, we were supposed to go up to Wisconsin on January 19th for final inspection. I don't think that date's going to be um good because we have not heard anything in the last week or so and I know there's uh two trucks ahead of ours uh from this region. Um and those guys are up there right now. So probably by the end of the month, sometime in February, we'll be up there and do a final inspection. um the uh mo uh section there. Um I have uh Mr.

Hetley's reviewing some documents that we're received from EMSMC. Uh we can anticipate um a reduction in the charges for one half of a building and then an increase uh in the other. Based on the percentages, it looks like it's going to be a wash. Um we'll still be uh collecting the same amount of money, but um it'll be charged at different tier levels. So, uh, we're going to be continuing to monitor that situation. Uh, we are ahead of collections for the year so far for the stuff that I've taken care of since I've been handling buildings. And then, um, just as usual during, uh, cold weather, we've had some pretty major recent alarms. Uh, one that was in Brentwood was at the mattress firm. We had a vehicle drive through the side of the building. Uh, the dude walked away from the accident unharmed, but left a hole in the side of the building. So, uh, fire marshall, building official, um, they're able to act on that pretty quick and then get the business to, uh, get open that break. And then we've had some out of town fires with Rockville and Webster, um, just because of the bitterly cold weather and then, um, some errors in um, rehabbing the house in Webster that we had two fires in two days at that same address and it was the same same issues. And uh finally, so the monthly performance measures that we usually give you and that you see in the weekly city administrators report are going to look way different moving forward. Uh the old infra system is being decommissioned um at the end of this month and there's entirely new platform. Um I was able to check some of our uploaded alarms yesterday and calculating performance measures 90th percentile uh breaking out travel times and turnout times is going to be a little bit difficult until we can get the system navigated, but uh rest assured um we'll get you the data that um that you need to show that the fire department is meeting the performance measures that we set. Uh with that, that is the monthly update. I'm more than willing to entertain any questions or

any comments. Thank you for the report. Anybody on the committee have any questions for Chief? Go ahead. I just have one question, Chief. You know, yesterday there was a lot of conversation about the burning smell that everybody could smell from all over the area because of controlled burns that were happening in Forest Park. Is the is the are the municipal departments notified about those and what kind of communication maybe can we do uh to pre I'm sure you you you might have received calls for it. So,

uh ironically, no, we didn't receive any calls. Uh we did notice the odor of smoke. Uh probably the most recent u incident of that was um over the summer and that was actually from the um wind patterns uh from wildfires up in Canada and up in Idaho and Montana. Usually if it's a prescribed burn and it's done by the Department of Conservation, they'll post that on their website, but I don't believe um they will notify any entities except perhaps maybe city of St. Louis wherever the burn is actually taking place. Uh we can certainly monitor that and um I do have a contact at the uh conservation department from uh Rockwood's reservation. I can certainly reach out to him and see if there's anything they can do to just notify us if they're going to be burning in the area.

Thank you. You're welcome, Ed. Thank you very much. Enjoy your vacation. Yeah, I'm at Disney, so you can tell what's going to be happening here tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Thank you.

Yep. Thank you. uh public works. Uh have a few um department updates for various projects. Uh Manchester Road, the electrician expects to go out any time during January. There's the uh control cabinet that's on the north side closer to Dorothy. That's what's controlling the six lights that are out on the north side. So basically from Dorothy to what used to be I think was like beautiful nails that strip mall that's up on the hillside there closer to Magdalene or St. Mary Magdalene. Uh there are two on the south side which did work and now they don't work. So we just figured when he goes out there have him look at those because there's one right to the north on the south side of Manchester just north of the tunnel. It's one of those decorative lights that runs parallel to Manchester Road. I know that parks is looking at the other decorative lights that are in the landscape islands, which those are independently controlled. Um, so we should be getting those all squared away. Um, I think that's it for that. Yeah, because there's the damage light they've ordered. It just hasn't arrived yet. That's when he'll come and do the cabinet. That's the one over by the self storage. Uh, Mcnite Road, we did get an update. It looks like the last component, which are some push buttons. Those are what's holding up the order. It looks like February 12th. Unless I want to switch to a different push button, which I don't think I do, unless they can show me that everything's the same as what we already have.

It did. Um, we're waiting.

Um, the solar lights, I'm drafting something with the communications manager and we'll get that out and just hand deliver like a postcard or something for the folks there on Mary Kay and Douglas. Uh, sidewalk cutting, they already started. So out in Brentwood Forest, I know they did some of the private stuff and then now they're doing our public uh areas. So they worked at North Swan Circle and Swallow. I don't know if they finished that. If they did, I know they were going to pivot, go to Renwood and just start knocking everything out with this good weather. They think they'll get done in just a few days and then they'll notify us and send us pictures and elevations and all that. Uh the one thing that's not on here, which I added as a note to myself, there's a we were going to talk about it anyways at public works, but there's a a decorative metal fence that's on Litzinger Road Bridge. It's on that south side that was damaged. A motorcyclist went through it. So, it's an insurance claim. I know we have a fence contractor. He already ordered the panels that go up. Uh he said he's got it on his schedule. It should be completed by January 16th. So once we put the new panels on, get the bill from and we'll turn it into insurance and get the reimbursement back and that's it. Anybody on the committee have any questions?

Dan, thank you very much. Thanks. Yep. Um, next is the consent agenda. Uh, it consists of the meeting minutes from November 19th. Everybody had a chance to look at them. Would anybody offer any changes? Hearing none. Can I get a motion to um accept? Do we just accept it or do we adopt it in any way? Right. So, uh to accept the consent agenda as submitted. So moved. Second. Been moved and seconded. Is there any further discussion? All those in favor say I. I.

Any opposed? Thank you. We turn now our attention to old business and it is the ebike, miniike, motorized scooters and that entire definition of stuff. We have um in my opinion a really comprehensive uh ordinance to consider. And so what I I guess should we have introduce this? Should we Okay, that'd be great. Yeah, that'd be great. I didn't know if I should if I was supposed to call on you or not, but I knew that you were working with the with uh our attorney.

Yeah. So, I talked to Jim today a little bit and um I guess to pick up from last time we were addressing I guess to jump right in, there was a concern over the park trails as far as the we're talking about the minibikes and the way they're classified. Actually, before I even start there, what do you guys want to jump into first? What I was going to ask you is this. So the the four areas main areas that we identified was the fact that the collection of ordinances that we have now um made no differentiation between motorized and non-motorized in terms of bicycles and especially electric powered things. Correct.

Um and so one of the areas we saw was that we needed to have age restrictions. Um and that was one area. Then another area was we needed to have location restrictions and ver and uh classifying the different roads that this could be on and what we're going to what we're going to allow for on everything from multi-use trails to sidewalks to the various types of streets we have in the city. And then there was one was an effort to see if there would be a way to in the case of uh a minor operating one of these vehicles illegally, can we somehow link that to parents? Um and in terms of fines and things like that. And then last but not least, I think the last one was the fines themselves, whether they could be increased because I think at the current state there are $25 fines, I want to say. Uh,

correct. Yeah, it would it wasn't much. Yeah, those are the four areas I remember. Does anybody on the committee have anything else that they I mean as a general topic, not as not necessarily specific. Oh, no. I mean, I have some specific questions, but Oh, okay. Okay. So, why don't we just take those kind of one at a time? whatever one you want to start with first and we'll talk about what changes have been proposed and then if you don't mind we'll have a kind of a back and forth about it. Okay. Where would you like to start

I would like to point out that so when I talked to Jim today so the way that these are classified now and I know some of the concerns from the public is that the electric bicycles are still functioning like bikes. They're allowed to be on the roadways. They're allowed to be on our paved trails. That's not effective. They're also allowed to be on the sidewalks. Where we get into it, and what I wanted to clarify today was that the way I'm understanding this and Jim clarified is that the and let me get the term correct. The motorized alternative vehicles,

right? So, your scooters, your minibikes, your pocket bikes, the go-karts, the way that this ordinance form is right now, that those are essentially only allowed if the rider is under the age of 17 and has no driver's license, could only be used on private property like someone's driveway. Like, we're not letting them on the street and we're not letting them in our parks or paved trails. Yeah. There in in the definitional section we identify uh bicycle, electric bicycle and then we also identify all three classes. What constitutes class one, class two, class three

um similar to what both um a couple of our residents brought to our attention during public comment. Um and then also the electric mobility transportation device, the electric personal assisted mobility device, the electric scooter and then the as you say the motorized alternative vehicle and then the nonmotorized alternative vehicle just by way of definition. Um, so generally speaking, these changes put the ebikes to call them that all three types in a sort of a different subset category than the other uh electric vehicles or the motorized vehicles. [clears throat]

So your classic Yeah. pedal assisted. Your your electric bicycles, class one, two, and three are separated from what we've broken down in here as far as electric scooters, motorized alternative vehicles, and then the non-motorized alternative vehicles, which would be things like roller skates, rollerblades, skateboards. Essentially, electric bikes are now their own category, almost like they're protected from a lot of the rules that we're putting in place based on the complaints that we've got over safety. because the complaints really haven't been centered around, you know, someone on an electric bike. It's it's the it's um then in the types of roads we identified um we differentiated I think I guess is the best way to say it between residential roads and then the roads that sort of bisect and then border the city.

Correct. you talking about how it's um no person shall operate or use an electric MTD AMD or non-motorized alternative vehicle like rollerblades and skateboards on our main thoroughfairs. Think of like your county roads like Brentwood, Eager, Mcnite, and Manchester unless they're crossing the street in a crosswalk. Okay. um questions you want to ask?

Yeah, sure. Um so the um the micromobility transportation devices are the ones that become the problem areas on our main thoroughares for children, you know, people that aren't adults classified as adults. Is that is that right? Yes. So your e scooters, little electric scooters. Yeah. and and those are the ones that we're saying are now going to be prohibited on the roadways. They are able to drive ride a lot of those on sidewalks. Is that right? Right. Those can be on the sidewalks.

Okay. And then I had a question on the um the helmet laws [clears throat] is so section 375130 and um a it's it it shall be unlawful for any individual to operate uh or be a passenger or on an alternate vehicle just just as alternative vehicle unless an individual wears protective headgear um that is properly fits and fastened securely. Is this consistent with St. Louis County and the state of Missouri helmet laws or is this an additional um

additional ordinance? It'd be our own ordinance. Yeah, that that is our own ordinance that we've come up with. I actually don't know. I'd have to refer to Jim on that. But I'm question because I think whatever we do should be consistent with the state of Missouri essentially state of Missouri and be at least comparable to whatever our surrounding municipal or or county is pertaining to helmets. Yeah. Pertaining to helmets should be similar or the or almost the exact same language. So, I just want to make sure that whatever we're passing isn't some But I can either look at our municipal code currently under this or I could look at [clears throat]

I could Yeah. And and then um the only other question that I had was uh on uh boy, where are we? Um then the parks regulations under skateboarding which is I I think it's under skateboarding split into two different things here but an L but then at the very end uh it says use of gas powered or electric minibikes mini motorcycles pocket bikes go-karts electric skateboards onehe self-balancing electric skateboards and self-balancing hoverboards or boards hoverboards are prohibited in city parks including sidewalks, pathways, and trails within the city parks. To me, electric skateboards, one wheels, um, hoverboards, I don't really see a problem with those in our parks, on our trails. Um, I mean, those are that's where you want the kids to be. And usually the kids are with their with their families and they're, you know, so I just want to kind of make sure that we're not being too uh restrictive or legalistic about these. And I I agree with some of the public uh comment that, you know, you can't legislate parenting. Sometimes it's just about, you know, um people being better parents with the concerns that we have. So, I just want to make sure we're not overlegisating our park areas to where, you know, now the police officers have to decide, do I go and, you know, cite this kid who's just having a, you know, find time with their family. I I just don't want to like inadvertently put a bunch of laws in there. So, I' I'd like to check into that first.

What section was that? Well, it's in the parks section, which parks L is what? Yeah, parks L, which is pretty So, section, where is it? Uh 22 225.40.040. Yeah. Item L. And it's at the end, which is weird because it's kind of in Okay. A skateboarding or I guess skateboarding and use of alternative vehicles. So, I just want to um it's it's L L

L. Yeah. Again, I think our our biggest concerns are are are uh residential streets that have a lot of high traffic that have kids that are unattended with they don't have parents with them and they have no helmets and they're just not they're not abiding by any uh laws. I understand that the reason we want to do something to our ordinance is to make sure that you all have the ability to actually do something about that. Um,

okay. So, the way I read that the way I read that right now is that they're they're not permitted on ARC equipment, pavilions, decks, railings, furnishings, but that they are permitted on the pathways, right? They just have to yield. They just have to yield

are prohibited. But it says are prohibited in city parks, including sidewalks, pathways, and trails within city parks. Those that's the last line that is in that. That's why it's confusing to me. It seems like we're sort of allowing it in the first part of the ordinance, but then prohibiting it at the end. But unless we unless we got mixed up on our draft. The drafts I have I think is the same one where we we get to the part where it's Yeah. prohibiting them on the playgrounds and on the unpaved park trails use of skateboard, scooters, roller skates, bicycles, alternative vehicles. Yeah. Check on

pave sidewalks trails is permitted. Okay, I see we could tweak it because it does include the hoverboards, electric skateboards, one wheel self. So, I'm I'm I'm okay with prohibiting electric I mean uh uh gas powered and electric minibikes, motorbikes, pocket bikes, go-karts. We should prohibit those on trails. I get that. But okay, it that that last line seems to contradict what we're allowing. Sure. Let me make a note of that. I can let Jim know and we can tweet that. You know,

it looks like maybe just taking out a few words. Yeah. If you take out electric skateboards all the way to hoverboards, you remove that, it cleans it up. Okay, I get it now. All right. Sorry. It's No, no, that's okay. Oh, I know. Yeah, there's a lot of information in this. Yeah, I had to read it several times, but Okay. Anybody else have any questions or

The only question I had was I was going through some of this. They had mentioned um the scooters for the disabled that it kind of went in with the can't go on the sidewalks and stuff and I'm like these poor little ladies that are in the, you know, Shnook's grocery cart or or something. I just want to make sure that Let me make sure because then that would fall fall under Do you know what section you may have? It was 375.110 if I hit it right. I don't a quick reading tonight that

that no person shall operate an electric scooter on any street, road, or highway in the city. Electric scooters may be operated on any sidewalk, bicycle, or multi-use path. Is that what you're No, it was more um I guess it might have been I I can't find where I was, but it it was I it said something about no scooters and that was fine, but I didn't I don't want to exclude the um the disabled. Right. Right. So, um yeah, three. So, and whatever that key AMD thing is is a mobility for the hover for the disabled. So, I just I don't want to be discriminated.

Electric personal assisted mobility device. Right. Right. [clears throat]

Yes. One of those times where I am grateful to say I'm not the lawyer. Um, would it be possible for our city attorney to maybe give an executive summary? I mean, I I want to make sure we address our concerns that we heard tonight, but I agree with you, Alderwoman Harter, that

I I imagine that ADA is probably addressed somewhere. If we could just kind of get an executive summary of these are the main concerns and here's where those concerns are addressed. I think because you know I can tell a lot of work went into the drafting this ordinance and I imagine that the intent was probably to not make it so you can't rollerblade on a sidewalk. Um and that I think and just to kind of get if the if the lawyer could kind of say this is really what we're doing if you want to get into the minutia like here's the section I think that would be helpful rather than us kind of like taking our pens out

uh to subsection 10. Well, I can reach out in the context I so I'm sorry to interrupt you. Um [clears throat] and so so I think that would be helpful if the um our city attorney could do that. And then um my other question was how how do we track with other municipalities? I mean are we in line? Are we cutting edge? Are we constrictive? [laughter] There's this I I I get that I think my observation is one of the reasons why is kind of comprehensive is because ebikes they're you know they're all based on com you know our laws are kind of based on combustible engines. My understanding is is we're we're ahead as far as trying to address it and and break things down. Yeah.

Was there a particular I mean to you know area we looked to so we weren't cutting for whole like San Diego for example. I mean I don't you know I'm actually not sure. I know that he I know he shared with me that he took a number of ordinances um from other municipalities and then didn't cut and paste because he found number of them didn't quite well they didn't quite really lawyering is way more nuanced than

yeah but but but he did look at other sources to try to come at some so what I can do in in the form of a kind of a rationale to him is I can send him an email and say the committee has a concern about helmet laws. Can you answer that question? And then in the larger context, can you provide us an executive summary of of you know just sort of annotating this section saying here's what my thought was when we did when we said this here's tell me where this is happening in this right hard to read. I think you need to have kind of a trained eye to read these kind of ordinances. And I just think that would be I think that would catch everyone up to speed in a very effective way.

When the definitional section gives me a headache, I know [laughter] I'm in over my head, right? Um so yeah, I can ask I can absolutely ask for that. Yeah. And then and Right. And we can print it out. Okay. Well, let's Does anybody have anything else specifically that they've read to this point that they want to discuss? If not, I'm going to take the alderwoman's suggestion and uh move on to the next Yeah, move on to the next thing here. I mean, do we feel like the that with some of that clarification, does it need to come back to this committee or is it is it something we feel like it probably does? Okay.

Yeah, I think it probably does. And then and so generally speaking, we didn't really touch on the other two other two things. We we did touch on the um so the age restriction. Does anybody have a philosophical problem with the 17? You know, can you just give me the the high level of of why 17 was chosen? Actually, I 17 might have just been a slide of tongue. It's driver's license. Okay. So 16. Yeah. So, in my mind, I'm thinking a juvenile and I probably said 17, but as far as the way this is written, you need a driver's license. So, you could be tied to that. Okay. So, anything under se under 16. Well,

yeah. I mean that [clears throat] um so what if So, so yeah, if somebody's not if somebody So, basically, it's it's more it's not an age thing. It's more age plus driver's license. So, somebody's over the age of 16 but doesn't have a driver's license and you and you you you see them driving ere erratically, then does that mean that I mean that's I guess that's the question, right? Well, I mean that so I I know that that was tying it to the license had a sort of a safety underpinning to it. The idea that to get a license you have to have passed

street, you know, you had to have some familiarity with street signs and things like that. And then you also had to be because there's also a thing in here about hand signaling and you know and and things like that. And that's the kind of stuff you'd learn, you know, in driver's ed, you know, to get your license. So, if you are an adult and you've, let's say, lost your driving privileges, um, but you need to get to work. I mean, what how does this good point addressed? Or if you're 15, you're 15 and you pass the driver's written test and you're practicing, you still know all the question.

I think on those two, I think we're just kind of getting in the weeds and moving away of what we what we're after here, which is the concern of the young young operators on these little electric scooters. I mean, I guess I I don't know much of a population, but if if you've lost your driver's license or you don't have the ability to drive your a car, I don't think that necessarily means if you're an adult that you can't drive an electric bike, right?

It wouldn't stop No, it wouldn't stop you from being on an electric bike, period. You could you can ride a bike because the electric bike is classified as a bicycle. And so the age the minor status or like that has to do with the alternative the motorized alternative vehicles. Yeah. Micro and and and Yeah. Okay. Well, so then then question for that category. I mean saying that if you've lost your driver's license, you can't drive those kind of Currently. The ordinance does say that would would say it that way. Yeah.

You can't have it on a city street if you don't have a driver's license. There's somebody in Canada that was recently cited for that. They were driving a a little Jeep. Does that mean I can I I'm left with what is it? 35 cc's I can drive. Yeah. You have to get a bicycle or switch under gas powered at a at a capped amount. I mean, I feel like that's an unintended consequence. Um yeah, I but I think that way it's currently written, I think that's the way you could interpret it. That's something we need to address.

I think the overarching concern was kids driving these things in in Walgreens and driving past the Yeah. Yeah. Um and [clears throat] then can I ask a question? Will there be a campaign to get the this new information out to all the parents? Absolutely. I think that's one of the biggest components [laughter] of it. If it were to pass and and we kind of work out some of these these kinks and we get something passed. Yeah. It would be a social media campaign and and Yeah. Yeah. Because I think that a lot of that has to do with the parents are unaware of it. Sure. Because

they're at work too and the kids get on the bike and you know play around, right? Okay. So, with that in mind, I will um I'll put something together. I'll copy you guys in, but I'll send it to Jim and uh we'll I guess I do have one on the on the question of communication on these type of things where it it obviously the the ordinance is being developed for young kids in the community. Um do we ever reach out to the school districts and say because it will impact kids that are in the district?

Oh, what do we Yeah. Have you have you looked at this or you you know you have these issues? Um did we do that with with this ordinance? We haven't. No, we have not notified the school district that we're working on an ordinance like this. I mean that might be that's what you're asking. Yeah. Since we're not in a position to pass anything up to the board yet, it might be an interesting conversation to have is just let the district know that, hey, we're working on on an issue that's come up in the community that affects the children that are part of the district. Um, see if they have any input.

Thank you very much. Thanks, Um, moving on. We're going to move on to uh number nine, new business. We have none. Uh, last item on the agenda is citizen comments. Is there anybody online or in the room that wishes to address this committee with regard to any issue of public safety in Brentwood? You've be given up to three minutes. Please identify yourself by name and address. Okay. Nobody here. So, I declare citizen comments closed. And seeing no other items on the agenda, I uh adjourn this meeting.