Housing Board - Regular Meeting

Hey, thanks. You know as well as any of us that just pushing a button is not always that simple. Well, I can do it too on my end. Well, we did it. It just means we can play test it right now. Thank you. So, we're recording right now. We are. And uh we haven't really missed anything other than the approval diminish. So we've done that. Now let's go back. You wanted to do the next minutes or wanting to have we have Oh yeah, sorry. We haven't done that. Okay, let's go do the next Kristen. We've waited for you.

Thank you. And the last time you said dial in in five minutes. Oh, perfect. Uh, there it is. Scan through it. This keyboard. This beep or rap? Beep. Beep. Okay. It actually it actually should say Men beep cuz it's the modified beep. Okay,

that too. I can do that, too. M capital M dash. M capital M dash and then B E. Nailed it. I guess I'll send them both in the CDL then. Yeah, that'd be great.

Perfect. Okay. Um, I would, if people are happy with this, I will entertain a motion to approve the minutes.

I'll make the motion. Thank you, Diane. Do I hear a second? Seconded. Thank you, Britney. Any further discussion? Okay, let's have a vote. I vote I Kareem. I Diane. Hi, Joe. Hi, Britney. Hi, and last but not least, good. Hi. Okay, that's done. Now, there is one person that's not here yet. I know Les was going to come.

He is. He sent me a text saying he'd be zooming in in about 5 minutes. Oh, and that was at 7:04. So, he should be zooming in any minute now. Well, you know, I was just going to get I was just going to give a bit of background information, which I think he knows already. So, why don't we just start talking about it and uh I think he knows all the stuff I'm going to say now.

Is there anything specific you'd like me to pull up? Uh yeah, if you could pull up the that Yes, that. Yeah. And let me just see if I can um let me just give a a brief overview of what it is. Thank you. Thank you, Jim. Thank you everybody else who's here for this cuz this is a matter that has um concerned or maybe bedled would be the right word the housing board for some time. Um and um what I thought I'd do tonight is try to get together all people that are doing the best they can to help us and resolve the matter so we can compare notes and all understand what the situation is. And I'm hoping that we can because of our inherent genius move forward and and uh come up with a plan forward so that we can uh sell this unit to another lowinccome family.

Mhm.

So okay, this unit at 118 Summer is a middle unit between two heated units in Summerfields condominium complex. It was purchased by Geraldine Pierce, I believe in 2019, and she lived there with her son John Pierce for some time. I believe last April, Geraldine passed away. And since then, uh, it's been a matter of concern. uh April Zeiss, who can't be here tonight, and others have reported to us that they they don't quite know whether one person was living there. So, it got the county board's attention. The person who spent the most time by far on this is Wendy who has worked with the uh son John Pierce and his friend and realtor Joff uh Jeff I guess to try to understand what is going on and to resolve the situation. um presently and the whole thing has been uh made more interesting by the fact that winter is upon us. Fran very alertly pointed out that we better do something even if you know didn't have the keys to protect the so we got the fire department to go over there and turn the thing off.

Turn water off. Turn the water off. Yeah. Okay. And I I believe they drained the pipes, did they? That's what I No. No. They did not. Fire department told me they did not have that. They did drain the pipes. Ideally, if you wanted to cold treatment, you drain your pipes, put antifreeze in the toilet, and all kinds of stuff like that. But I don't know about that. They shut the water off from the water main to the unit. But I asked them that they shut the water. You could drain at least that chilling off is all I could do. Okay. Are you in a voter on either side? I'm the president of the carnival association.

Okay. Hi, I'm Kristen. I don't think you've met. You're familiar, but I don't think you've met. I'm Fran Spring. Hi, friend. I And u April is a is another person who's not here. She's she's actually attended every housing board meeting I think for the last four months. Bless her for it.

I can find a recruiter and uh you know and so she's aware of what's going on. Okay. So anyway, so after this pulling out of the fire department, they had a meeting town hall and they decided that the board of health should have a role in this. And I think the board of health uh decided that they would have um seek a court order for Jim uh who's here I think. I don't see where you

hi Jim. Hi Jim to get a court order so at least we could get into the unit and see whether it was okay. And I have to say I'm not quite sure what the status is on that. Jim, would would it be possible for you to tell us what is going on in that regard?

Sure. So, one of the things the meeting that we had with the town officials, again, we're frustrated by the fact that I just can't go into the property. I don't have the right unless I have permission from the property owner to go into the property. Um, and so we seem to be bedeled by getting permission from whoever be the owner of that property. Now, I've worked with Wendy. She's provided me with the probate attorney's information. I've placed a couple of calls. I've sent an email explaining what it was that we're trying to do. Um, the board of health could seek an ad what's called an administrative consent order to do an inspection. That's all we'd be doing. Um, but I have to serve it on somebody. And so, we're kind of stuck in the same position without knowing uh or having somebody we can actually serve this document on. Um, so we haven't we haven't obtained one yet because we don't really know who we'd be serving it on and and the purpose of that would be to go in and do an inspection. Um, and and that's all. I mean, the initial reports that we heard on that Friday were, you know, the the water issue, uh, the issue with, um, you maybe the lack of security because there was a broken window, the potential for pipes to freeze, and then, you know, kind of an odor in the unit. Um, I guess there was some rubbish buildup in the unit. So, those were kind of the particularly the rubbish were the board of health concerns. The other issues really are Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, they would be the owner's issue to fix along with the rubbish, but again, we're having an issue uh contacting an owner's representative. So, that's kind of where we're at at this point.

Okay. Well, thank you for the update. That's very useful. I can piggy back on Jim at the Yeah, go ahead, Chris. Okay. So Jim and I happen to be doing something else and um I brought up 118 Summer Road and I did have permission to go inside the unit. Has anybody from the housing board been in the unit yet? No, not yet. No, we were told by K&P that we shouldn't go in there.

Well, well, you Yeah, I'll get to that. Okay. Well, because I I grew up with them um both Jeff and John, I did have permission from the from John to go in. Um, after talking and learning about the basement door being open, I asked them to put a piece of plywood over it and there is a piece of plywood there. Inside they screwed two plastic covers, so it it is secure. Nothing is going to get in and out of that basement door. Um, it did not smell. They have told me that they are working on taking trash out of there, and I I've even volunteered my nephew on a Saturday to go over with our dump sticker and finish cleaning it out. Who is they? Um, I've been talking to Jeff, the realtor.

Jeff, but Jeff talked to John who gave me permission to go into the unit. But who's cleaning up, Jeff? They are. Jeff actually, as the good news is of his fire, has been paying to have people go in and start taking things out. So, because I also heard that there was a concern about the main water line going to the Senate unit. I did invite the building commissioner to go with me. He has the right to go in because, and I'm just being honest, you know, at first I was like, Wendy, don't tell anyone I went in with me. But, um, he does have the legal right to go in. He went in with me. So, I didn't.

Good job, Wendy. But I just confessed my sin. So, I was like, I'm just going to confess to everybody. There's no point having secrets. And I And I did tell Mike today that um at Catela was in the water line does run down the center on the main beam, which is in the center of the basement. The basement was warmer than upstairs. and Ed did not see an issue because in Massachusetts basement don't typically fall below 50°. So the main water running between the units should not freeze and then my understanding also is that people in either side have water trickling just to make sure on the other end.

Okay, perfect. All right, so that's that part of it. There was no smell. There was a little bit of mouse poop upstairs, but I did not see any evidence of a rodent infestation. And please know I worked all the way through the foreclosure crisis. I have seen some stuff. This just looked like a place that people had wounded out 40% of their possessions, but there wasn't food everywhere. There there was nothing gross. The bas the garage had four or five black trash bags. There was no smell when I opened the garage door. Um, now granted, it's cold, but even if it was cold, I would have smelled refues. So, what I don't know is if during the time between the fire department being there and there being a smell and Jeff telling me that they're working on taking things out, maybe food trash been removed because I did communicate with Jeff that the neighbors were really concerned about all of this and that it's in our best interest to just keep me things moving forward. So, I did leave a voicemail for Jim letting him know, hey, I went in. This is what's going on. It is going to be up to you whether you still want him to go in. Um I don't know that they're going to give permission. You know, I was going in as a friend. Um somebody that's empathetic to the situation. Jim going in is as a public official and it does it creates a whole different level of whatnot. My understanding is that Mike John's, our town administrator, has a call with their attorney tomorrow and and we'll continue to try to sort it out. My other understanding is that really there's not much we can do. Um we don't own it. It's in probate. They've got to work through the process. And at some point, somebody will be issued the license to sell by the courts because that's what you need. They can't sell it till they have a license to sell. And that's when probate says, "Yep, you've done what you're supposed to do. Go ahead." And

that's what KP Law said. Yep. And And at that point, I I think Jack is going to be the realtor. I don't really know because I don't know how affordable units work. I've never dealt with one. But at that point, it'll go on the market. It's going to stay in your inventory. Now, in the meantime, there was a little note on the door that said somebody from the mortgage company had been there because the mortgage wasn't being paid. And I can see there's an outstanding Well, no, we know. We don't know how much it is. We don't know how much it is.

Well, what I asked Mike to do when he talked to their attorney tomorrow was to um just let them know that the mortgage hasn't been paid. In my experience, that bank is not going to foreclose on that unit because of the deed, because of the complexity, because there's no money in it for them.

So, I don't think you've got a foreclosure risk there. I do think that we've got to work through the process, but at this time, if if you want to do something, I think that the only things you could possibly do are offer to turn the electricity and the heat back on at the housing trust expense. You could pay a plumber to winterize it if you know and again this is more to assure the the two people on either side that their units are safe. You know you could have a pest inspector go in. You can do things like that but it will be at the grace of the owner. They don't have to let you do anything because we don't own it. There is a deed restriction but it does not belong to the town of Box forever. Well, you know, the problem that KMP has expressed is that we can't get permission from the owner because we have no idea who the owner is at this point. Well,

legally, it's it's But John has divided access. John, technically, John is going to be your point of contact. It was his mother's unit. It's in probate. He's the person that's gonna give you permission to go with Nash, but he can't according to uh in fact John's wrote a note to us. The note said he had intent to sell and he g note gave us permission to enter the unit, but uh K&P said that that was not valid. Has not been established as the owner. He hasn't been the the probate hasn't gone through. So, I think that at at this point there really isn't anything you can do. It's not going to freeze. They are working to clean it out.

You're going to have to let it push. You're just going to have to let it go through the process. Okay. Well, as long as long as it's not going to be okay, you know, and it's in a good we wanted to make sure. I mean, I have seen some stuff. I have seen mold growing from ceilings. I have seen toilets full of feces. I have seen that. This is none of that. It's so so Jeff is working on helping him get it moving along and get all the stuff out and it's not in a in a bad state of decay in any meaningful capacity. The water situation has been addressed. Yeah. And what about the window? Uh they they put a a piece of plywood on it outside and they literally screwed like you know the plastic cover to a tote.

They're thick and they're sturdy and there's they're stiff. They literally screwed two of them together on the other side of the plywood. So, it's secure. You would have to work really hard to get in. I'm not saying you couldn't, but you would have to work really hard to get So, the damage the damage we were concerned about is secure. And I don't think you're going to have to do a heck of a lot. Um, the carpets, again, I have seen some stuff. The carpets are going to need cleaning. You can decide if you want to paint it or not. The kitchen was fine. I I I just think it just needs to be emptied and cleaned. That's good to hear it. Well, let's get into that. But Joe has had his hand up. Sorry. Well, Joe, you have something to say?

Yeah, just a couple questions. As a board member and as secretary, I want to get this correct. Um, is the waterline issue, Kristen? Um, so the building commissioner says that's the water that's not a concern. He was not worried. Um, he said it runs down the main beam. So, it's basically in the center of the unit. water is being used and below grade in Massachusetts doesn't typically go below freezing like your basement it was colder upstairs than in the basement when I was there. Yeah. And then my second question, the way you described it, would you say overall it's weatherized or it's be in process of becoming weatherized?

Not weatherized, cleaned out. I think if if you I did not turn any taps to check anything to see if it's frozen. I assumed the fire department had drained the pipes. Um I so I don't know, Joe. I I don't Maybe maybe that's too strong of a I I don't think that's what I meant. I meant that you've seen you noticed some patch repairs and some activity, but just to secure the unit and mitigate any further damage. Would you say it's secure or in process of becoming secure? It's secure.

Okay, great. I mean, it's a piece of plywood and some plastic screwed to the door, but I mean, it's as secure as a window would be. You know, you could break a window, you could pry the plywood off, but it's not like you could just reach your hand in and open the door. Okay, those are my questions. Thank you. Yeah. And because the window was broken and and there was access from outside for things to get in, um, April had a handyman come and um, put some um, stripping over the back of the glass completely off from the outside and and and cover it. There was broken glass inside. So I think whoever the glass has been broken for almost a year.

Oh lordy. Okay. All right. Cuz I didn't touch the glass. We didn't see them outside. Okay. But we were concerned because the glass was broken that slides and we could get inside even though we could see that that that that inside you can see it didn't secure the agreed. Yeah. So we we took April did that that you know we've had various people tell us various things about the state of that unit. Some of the things sound really scary. And what you said doesn't sound so scary at all.

You know what? We might take a video for you. It It wasn't at all. It It wasn't bad at all. There's some furniture. The carpets weren't bad. Like, I didn't think it was bad. So, you don't think that the cost of uh fixing it up would be exceptionally high or anything like that? I I'm happy to see if I can get permission to go back in, especially if they'll let me take some more trash out for them. Um, did I I think it just needs a really good cleaning. I But like I said, I didn't turn on the tub. I didn't check the shower. So, keep your $20,000 budget for now because it's not like I did a home inspection. I just walked through and went, "All right, this isn't as bad as I

Yeah. Well, that's really But why would that be the town's expense, the repair? Now, this brings me to this thing on the screen. Can everybody see this?

I was messing around with numbers this uh this afternoon, actually. I'm sure I'm not sure these numbers are all that accurate. Some of them are just vital guesses. But this, I think, might be something we could do. I think the last time we calculated the maximum resale price, we came up with something like $240,000. And then from in a sale, you have to subtract from those all kinds of big numbers. I don't know what the outstanding mortgage is. I'm just guessing. Oh, I could have looked that up for you. Sorry, I can't do it on my phone, but I could.

Well, the other thing we have to subtract out of there is the nursing home costs. Right. Well, I'm suggesting that maybe to the extent that we can find them, we should take a look at what the numbers are. This is just a number. You can see I try I these are all the things I could think of. The electricity, the lean on the property that's a thousand. Yeah. So, I think one of the things we should do is see what the magnitude is. And maybe because of what Kristen says, the repair and cleanout is not going to be as much as I assumed there. Well, to Wendy's point,

we don't have to pay. If it doesn't belong to you, can can a family understand the family because we don't know who's been licensed to sell. Can they sell it as is? Because typically properties like that are sold as is.

Well, here's what I think. I think the what K&P has said is that the supposition is that the affordable unit should sell the unit in the in the shape that it was to begin with. Now certainly wasn't filled with clothes and piano and everything else. So it could be construed I think that um any cost for cleaning it out or repairing it is his responsibility. In fact, that's what it said in some of the documents. So, I don't know if it's legal, but what about, you know, fixing it and attaching a lean to the property and and so this is the way it would work. And this, if these numbers are right, then the seller, uh, John, I guess,

or whomever, yeah, it would get $59,000. we would get $25,000 which would come from the proceeds. So that's why I put this number down. I mean I don't know what we do if this number at the bottom ends up negative but it doesn't look like then it's a short sale. Then you do not need lender approval. If if he winds up owing more than the property is worth, it's called a short sale. And then you have to get the lender involved and they will give it up. They'll just do it. Yeah. Because the big number is the nursing home. That's the big number. Is that miscellaneous, Wendy? The 24,000.

No, miscellaneous was a sort of combined realtor fee and other additional annoying costs that get added when you sell a house. It was It's 10% of the sales price is what I figured. How much do they nursing home? We don't Nobody knows. Okay. I think somebody told me not to ask. I think Mike maybe told me not to ask. Okay. Well, or maybe KP KP Law told me you could ask, but they don't have to tell you.

Well, I mean, it would to me it would be a good idea to see if something like this could work. I mean, that's the way to go. We wouldn't pay for this. He would pay for out of the proceedings. I have a couple concerns. One is that um if they utilities are shut off. So, one of our other um owners didn't it was a 40 and they didn't have a will. it took three years um to go through probate. So volume tuning is off and go through the summer with no air conditioning. Then it could get moldy inside. So I think you know it really needs to be cleaned out completely and somebody needs to open windows or do something so that it doesn't get destroyed. Um so that was a that sounds like it was a situation without a will. My understanding is that they were able to find renewal for this one.

I think they that's not the case, right? Yes. So, um yes. So, that's another So, just there's a couple things that Al did not mention. So, we had sent an email or we had sent a I had sent a letter on behalf of the housing board with Al's permission with KP Laws knowing well they actually helped me write it and and that said like all of these things you know need to be taken care of. Um and Ben what was your other question? You said something will

Oh, sorry. So, so yes, the will was found and that was what was told to the lawyer because KP law said if the will was found that needs to be given to the probate attorney because you can't just not follow through and then the court has to decide is that you know it has to go back to court and the court has to decide you know if they're going to count that piece of paper as a will and that changes some things. So, you're saying that that's it might not be a valid will.

Well, it was notorized. It just it was notorized and it looked, you know, it's been around for a while. Okay. But I mean, hopefully hopefully that means the process will be a little bit quicker than Yeah. Yeah. That'd be great. I think sometimes it's squeaky wheel too, you know, if the other I I'm familiar with the other unit that took three years. I think part of it is there's no squeaky wheel. We are squeaky wheel. There's lots of squeaky wheel. The other one didn't have a squeaky wheel here. Yeah. At any rate, no, but I you know, all right. Okay. Okay. Well, what's wrong with actually trying to figure out what the the numbers are and see if

for our own purposes? Yes. Well, to see if this is viable. Yeah, this would work. I guess the reason is cuz it's not your job. I'm just going to be blunt. It's my family's job. We don't own it. We have no responsibility for it. We're trying to be good neighbors and we are taking steps towards that. But I don't think this is a good use of your time and energy at this time until you do know how it's going to be disposed. That's why I think our interest is just to keep being that squeaky wheel and make sure the process keeps moving. No. Well, I don't think for me our interest is getting a lowinccome family in there and and if we

and if if figuring out a way to get all this done expedites that it seems to me that is our job. But I think what you need to do is wait until the court appoints a representative of the estate, an executive or It is there is that's already been done. Okay. Well, then is that John or who is it? No, it's this guy in Fall River. Okay. And is that who Mike's talking to? Yes. And that's the guy that I sent the letter to. That's the guy Jim Greery sent the letter to. I talked to him once last fall and he's

And just so you know, like my opinion about this guy is I called the gas company. They, you know, he hasn't done anything. They didn't know that Geraldine died. The mortgage company didn't know that Gerald Dean died. No. Like so you notified them of all of that? Just those two things. Yeah. Okay. The what we have to focus on is Mike does have a meeting with that person tomorrow. Yes. So let's get the next set of information. Let's find out what their plans are. You know, will Mike goal? What's the goal of that call? Yeah. So, yes, I got an email today too from them

and I I and Mike got a few calls and they, you know, Mike hadn't answered. So, and he tried to call back and then they called me because I sent the letter and then, you know, so I sent this letter like over two months ago. So, um, yeah, Mike said they played phone tag today. I I know I was in several meetings with Mike today, so he had a busy day. I'm going to say I'm going to suggest that you wait and find out the resolution from tomorrow's meeting. Oh, yeah.

Um I think it's I think it's great if you ask Mike to say the town would like to work with you to resolve this problem. We have some funds. We'd like to be partners with you. And then you have to wait for them to respond. They have to accept your help. And then I think it's entirely possible that you can create a repair writer where you say the affordable housing trust is willing to do I'm not an attorney but willing to do XYZ to help expedite the sale of this property the buyer or I'm sorry the seller is going to have to agree to it and then that basically gets written into all paperwork so that when it closes the town gets reimbured. So you don't need to do a lean um because it's going you know if it moves forward like that it's a friendly proposition. We want to partner with you to get this parcel back into our affordable housing production.

Well, that that sounds like it's the kind of thing we should be trying to head for. Yeah. And I think if you or Ian could talk to Mike tomorrow and just, you know, at the board's direction. I'm not boss. You guys are. Well, I direct, but I have a question. Yeah. So Ian, you have a you have a good bra for all this. Yeah. You said the repair rider. I'm not entirely familiar with

it's just it's just you're going to have a legal agreement. I'm calling it a rider. You'll have a if if they accept the town's offer of help. You'll determine exactly what that help is. It'll get written out. It'll be specific. And then the executive of the estate or the administrator of the state and the town would both sign it. Then we would all know exactly whose responsibilities are what. whether that's money with for reimbursements or getting contractors in. And I think that Mike should depending on how you all feel about it. Um, you know, do you do you want to talk to them about getting electricity back on? Do you want to talk to them about getting the heat back on? Do you want to talk to them about setting a plumber in to winterize it? I don't know if that's something DPW can do. I don't know. But that's going to be your decision because that would be using it for housing trust funds.

And I myself don't see the point. I I have to say um because we can't show it to anybody certainly. It just Oh, it's to protect it that it's to it's to her point about air conditioning and humidification and all that. The only reason to put the heat and the electricity back on would be to manage the climate. Would the town recoup that money from the estate? Would the town You would write that into the agreement. That's what I'm saying is you have to decide as the housing board and trust what do you want to offer in order to get the work done with guaranteed reimbursement at the sale. We got a hand up over here. Very patient.

So would that Fran in the room? You got the laptop in front of you. You can't see her. So that Oh yeah. So would that come um money be taken up before any leans, any other like the nursing home or the utilities? How does that feel? And also how do we can we fold in the condo fees that are going to be outstanding for the other?

That's going to be an attorney question. I don't know about the condo fees and I it's also an attorney question because with any sale there is an order of operations per se. You know taxes get paid first then leans then other obligations. So again, that that's an attorney question. Um if there's not enough money at the end of the day, who gets paid and who doesn't? So So the what you just proposed for the repairs of the unit, does that get paid after everybody else?

That's an attorney question. I'm loathed to answer that. In my experience, that is going to be last, but that doesn't mean it will. I I can't answer. I don't have the legal we need to ask before we agree to do this. Well, that's why it it probably to me might be a good idea to estimate what these numbers are as best we can now to see whether we're talking about makes sense to America. I mean, these numbers and some of them are just wild guesses show that

and and can I just can I just say something like if if you guys are talking to John now. So, like say if my mom died and I had and I had to take care of her house, even if she was in a 40B, like I'm a responsible person that's going to make sure the electricityy's on, that's going to make sure the heat's on. So, and so now that we know John is the rightful heir, shouldn't I mean, wouldn't that typically be his deal to make sure that these things are happening? But he's got a personal representative that's been appointed.

He doesn't work for him. He doesn't He doesn't work for John. John still is in John has been determined as the next of kin. There's no one else. So as a responsible next of kin, you would do your own thing to turn on the heat and and turn on the electricity. What is the exact status of this person who's talking to Mike Gamor? I thought he was personal representative. Well, at the court,

he's a personal representative. Okay. The nursing home, they are owed money. They went to the court. They probated. They went to the court to say, "We are owed money. I don't know how much." And the court and they and they went to the court and said, "There is no will." And so, but there's John there. It's this is all like online in the court documents, but John is the next of kin. So, you know, he would get this will or no will. And so, the court said, "Okay, we're going to res we're going to make somebody the person that probates the estate." So they made this guy and I asked him when I talked to him last fall I'm like how did you get this and he says he does lots of these. So this guy was appointed he raised his hand and and they appointed this guy to probate the the estate. So, and he's got a bond from the nursing home that if he cleared this all, he gets that bond. But KP told us that he is not working for the nursing home. He is working for the estate. I I think Wendy, I hear what you're saying and I 100% understand and respect your frustration. I think that we're going to learn a lot more after Mike talks to the attorney tomorrow. I think that if this group can put together either a list of questions for Mike or, you know, give Mike some direction, I I think we'll be able to move forward. We're just going to have to We're not going to be able to do it tonight, though. You know, we're just going to have to wait until we get more information. I mean, I agree with what Al said before Wendy uh chimed in just then that it's still worth our time to collect as much hard numbers as we can. And I know

Kristen kind of was saying it's not our job or like it's not worth our time, but I think it is because that would determine like whether or what kind of agreement we might try to enter into with the owner or like what kind of repairs we might write. Like having a sense of how much profit is potentially to be made would determine whether it's worth us investing $10,000 in repairs based on whether there's even you know any money that could potenti Right. Like that's that's the value of doing this exercise, right? Could happen simultaneous. Yeah. Exactly. That's that's kind of what I'm in the nursing home. What how long was she in the nursing home? I wasn't

I know. I think she was there about a year, but I have to have to confirm because the wild card is how much right that started in November. All that I thought November too that was November is we don't know for sure but November is when the wild party started and and she died in April. Okay. Some we Yeah. Fred and I both missed it. What started in November? That's when she went to the nursing home. That's correct. when Oh, we don't know. I don't know that. I don't know that that's when stuff started that there was police activity at the residence.

Okay. Oh, what if we um Well, not unusual though. What what if um in terms of Mike's conversation tomorrow, I'm just throwing this out as an idea is what if Mike says we're trying to understand how the town can help the state the estate move forward. If you, Mr. Attorney, believes there will be enough funds to reimburse the town, we would be interested in assisting with some of the repairs and the cleanout. And that way you're you're keeping it really loose. You're being very clear that the town is only going to help if they're going to get their money back. I don't know if we can trust this attorney though or like I don't like I don't know what his interests are. Like it it doesn't

he's being paid to settle the estate. So we can trust him because he's got statutory responsibilities. So yeah. Yes. This is someone who does this all the time. He has statutory responsibilities. Sure. So I I So I I think that's the question. If if there's some reason we're not supposed to actually know how much they owe in the nursing home, I I don't know. But it seems to me you could be asking his questions to help you decide what makes the I did I asked him and he wouldn't tell me, right? But Mike is going to ask the questions now for better or worse. Now he's talking like a good way to skin the cat. There's probably other ways to skin the cat,

but I think it it it does move us down the road if we can come up with a general scheme that we're working toward. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do is let's push it on down the road a little bit. Yeah. Get some more information so you have the information to make a good decision. So, if there's a lean on the property, wouldn't it say how much that lean is for? Yes, it does. So, there's there's documentation someplace about that. If the do you know if the nursing home actually put a lean on the property? Um, not to my knowledge. Let I have all the court stuff printed out. Let me just quickly look through it. But I mean, I would have I've looked at all the I've looked at all the court stuff. I I don't know where.

Well, you could Well, don't don't don't you ask the um you can ask the attorney tomorrow. All right. All the details. I mean, there's nothing in the court documents that say there's nothing in the court documents that say anything about they just said the petitioner was from the you know his name he's it's from the life care center in Littleton. The executive director petitioned the court. Okay. Because they are a creditor because they're owed money. Okay. Joe has his hand raised. Joe,

thank you. Um, as a BHB member, I just want to I'm sorry I may have missed this. Um, is somebody in our group, Wendy, um, Kristen, I don't think it's you. Is somebody gonna have time to speak with Mike before the call tomorrow? I just Okay. Thank you, Ian. Sorry. Yeah. And I can I just texted him too and I said, "Can you ask the lawyer how how much the estate owes the nursing home?" And he said, "Sure." Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Could you restate your question too cuz you had framed it um nicely. You said we're trying the town is trying to understand how to best move forward.

Yeah. The town is trying to determine if it's now I don't know what I said. I don't know. And now you said it so nicely Kristen how it's recorded. Yay. I think you said how we can assist. I don't know. Oh, how bad is that? Isn't the right how do I mean this might just watch it. Thank god we were right now. The idea is how much you know I guess the intent of my question was if is there um enough liquidity in the property for the town to be able to assist with repairs and cleanup right because we need to be able to be sure that we can recuperate the cost. Yeah.

Yeah. What I heard was you proposed that might open the topic of well, is it possible that we could work together? Yes. And for the town to help with the repairs, but we have to make sure that there's enough money around get paid back. We'd like to be good neighbors and good partners. You know, we understand as part of our Yeah, exactly. It's however Mike wants to say it. And that that's a Christian way to do it. I'd like to be a good partner. Yeah.

I'm like, that's so fine. Why are we being so nice? I'm like, we have a vested interest in this unit being resolved and resellable. It's a housing crisis, right? Like there's a need for this like and we're stewards of this property. And I'm think that's just me personally wanting to not be quite so like kind about it. Like that if there's no utilities, your unit's going to get destroyed and he it would maybe push him to do it quicker like cuz he has vested interest in selling it. Right. That's what I'm thinking. He has the world. Aren't we both? My understanding is his only investment. Only investment. But that way anyway, I think we've got a plan forward. I think we have to keep Sounds good to me. So, you're going to

Yeah, I'll play tomorrow and then we'll have to somehow we have we have to housing board has to learn what how that went and and then figure out what to do. I just got one more thing. So when you're calculating the numbers, there's 247 a month condo fees acrewing every month. 247. Yeah. So I don't know what where that how many months? I don't know. I don't know when I'm not sure how far back it goes, but And there's also that mold 247 every month. And then there's also that other mold thing that they're dealing with. The mold that the pump house or something. There's some

Oh, there was a Was it a special assessment? Yeah, special. April. Yeah, April was talking about the like I think it was the cleaning power washing to get rid of like algae and mold or something on the outside. Everybody thinks it's a major problem in the whole house with mold inside the house. Anyway, so I say I I think you need to get a ballpark estimate of the kind of expenses that might be involved and I think that would serve us well. That that's my Yeah, we have game plan. condo fees. Yeah. Hey, Al. Yes.

Is there any is there any precedent with any of the other resales that you've done that that the town has helped, you know, do the repairs and not to my knowledge? Mhm. No, we got involved in one case, but that was kind of like being depicted, but it was nothing like this. That was over 10 years ago. Yeah. Quite a while. So, I propose that we move on to the next topic. Does anybody have any words of wisdom that they want to add to this? I think we're quite wise enough on this topic. Okay. All right. Especially,

you guys are doing awesome. Just don't give up. You just have to be patient. These things take time. Sure. You're doing great. Thank you. Now, let's see what is next. Okay. Box B. Uh, I just put it there because we always put it there. I don't know if there's any problems, Wendy. Are there any problems? Anything you want to sell? Tell us about BAP. No, we just it's just the same as usual. People are coming off, people are coming on. Okay. But there's no problem about no policy decisions or anything like that. Um, not to my knowledge.

Okay, great. Let's move on to the next topic. That would be the annual report which I've distributed to already in pull that up. I believe it's right here. Yeah, there it is. Now, this has been gone through several editorial cycles, so might be practically perfect for the who knows. Uh, but anyway, if we approve it tonight, I'm going to submit it. And, uh, so what do you think?

I mean, I read through it briefly before the meeting and nothing stood out to me as needing agregious correction. All right. Well, uh should me should we vote to approve it and then I will forth with uh submit it. Um okay. Do can I hear a motion that we uh accept the um annual report? I'll make a motion. Thank you, Joe. Uh do I hear a second? Seconded. All right. So, let's Thank you, Al. What was Thank you for writing it.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it it's good to think about these things. You you learn a lot when you think write things like this. Anyway, uh I vote for it. I'm not particularly unbiased though. Joe, did you vote I or I or no? I Okay, Corine. Hi uh Diane. Hi and Britney. I Ben I

did I leave out anybody? Okay. Therefore this is approved. Okay. Now on to the next I think the letter to to

Oh yes there is. Now this has been se through several editorial cycles and people have actually made some very good improvements on it. We can go through and and make it even more perfect. But there is one question I have about this that I don't think is resolved and it is where should we send it? I mean I don't want to just send it to the EOC. we needed to send it to a person. Um, and I had a novel. I had a weird weird thought,

you know, why not why not send it to David? I could rephrase it. And this would be D something David could use in his arsenal arsenal to to show people, look at this really matters. There's a there's a there's a you know housing board out there that that's having problems. In fact, they have a concrete example 118 suburb uh where they you know they're it's a problematic thing. M

I mean if a if a trust was legal for an affordable unit we wouldn't be having the problem with 118 summer and you know and so that I don't know what you think of that but that that would be one thing I might suggest.

I think Karine was trying to chime in on something that's okay. So when when um David had left the meeting, he was supposed to send us where we were supposed to send like the the contacts of of where we were supposed to send this directly to. So I think we need to probably re reach back out and circle back with him and just find out. Yeah, I agree that I mean I like where your logic is for sharing it with David, but I think he explicitly was kind of like I want these people to hear from someone not me, you know? Like I think that that was the value to us writing a letter was that they were the the people who were you know uh upholding this guidance or this wisdom

would benefit from hearing another advocate besides David. Another example is 80 summer road took three years to go through probate and a unit was the vacant in three years. Oh really? I didn't realize

they just sold like two years ago I think just two years ago. We've got multiple examples. Yeah, you were the person who dealt with David. I think David should be in the certain trust to I think there's no harm in in me reaching back out to David and if David does have a contact then I'd say that's the best path forward. Right. I know that David didn't want to be, you know, the person doing all of this or the person tied to all of this, but I I think that the way we drafted this letter keeps it uh, you know, on our own accord that we had him come in. He spoke to us and we thought it was an important issue enough to to take forward with the AP E O LC. And if he has someone that he wants um us to send it to then then by all means we'll follow that

send it monthly too like couldn't like I'm sure EOH sorry go ahead you had your hand up we just send it to our representatives we can send it to Dan Cena and that's what I was thinking yeah that we're on the same page I'm like EOHLC must have generic they'll know where to direct it representatives I don't want to do anything to embarrass David politically and I don't know the politics do you think that there's a dance.

No, he he told us he wanted us. He encouraged this. This was not something he needs help. He wants us to and you know, we offered. So, I don't think I mean certainly if Ian's going to circle back with him, he can double triple check with him. But I think we should email it off to him and I think I agree with Finnen and Britney. This is where our reps are and the other one. Yeah. And um they're the ones that change it. So maybe the ones to talk to. Maybe since we're going to contact him anyway, it would be prudent to tell him what we were thinking of doing. See if he objects. I mean, I don't think we ought to do anything that makes him

send David the letter and say, "Hey, this is the letter. We'd like to send it out. Um, we're thinking of sending it to Dan and Jamie. Is there anywhere else that you think we should direct this to?" And there might be current political actions at the state level that this would be relevant to. Um, and and Dan and Jamie will know more. Um, but I'm sure David is probably plugged into whatever is happening at the state level. Yeah, he's a good guy and he has a friend. Yeah. So, I don't And Joe, were you trying to say something? Yeah. Joe,

I just wanted to reiterate. I came away with that David has been trying to be an advocate already for this and he's not a state employee, so he's not there's no conflict. Um, I think he's going to support us advocating to elected officials broadly. So yeah. Yeah, I agreed. Well, Dylan, that is a big problem. I don't know why everybody, it's crazy. Everybody sort of agreed with David to this. They just don't have the time to work on it. Yeah. Or the willpower. I have one comment that's not related topically at all, but the uh salutation of dear sir or madam is not particularly is like not particularly gender inclusive. Could we say like to whom it may concern? Yeah.

Cuz like you never said not. I thought there was I guess I guess it's archaic now. But yeah, well just in general to not use gendered language is a good practice cuz you can't presume like someone is male or female like they could be transgender. They could be I know I know it's not related to housing topics. I definitely am showing my age. I too I meant showing my age. I don't feel like I was sexist or anything else but No, I wouldn't call it sexism. I would just say it's excluding people who don't who are not cisgendered. So people who don't identify with the gender they're assigned at birth. It's exclusive of that population and we don't people.

So it's again it wasn't topically related. It was just one small everything you can do to get me out of stone agent here or other interested change or oh what the whom I may concern or something yeah okay that sounds good so thanks for indulging me you're right um so we have a plan on that we're going to talk to the end I'm going to stop using And um and after we get some guides, we're going to send this thing out. It's okay to send it out without any further review from the housing board.

No, looks good. Looks good. Okay. Yeah. What is next? Okay. We have we have one application. I think that might be something um if if we're sending this out, we can maybe update you on question a second example about number 80. You could you could write you guys could write another letter. I like no having having a different perspective probably 80 summer that's an affordable unit. That was yeah Ted Tonley. Maybe we should add to that letter.

All right. No, I I think it would be better for you guys to have another letter that kind of reiterates the same thing. One example there it took seed seven months but we had one two years ago and it took three years. So well if you write a letter you can speak to your perspective as part of a a condo association and the problems that you've run into with you know having this restriction on the the trusts on 43 units. So it didn't it it just left an empty unit. It didn't the people paid the condo fees. So it really wasn't a hardship for us. It was an empty affordable unit empty for 3 years. So that's what that's why I'm saying it probably should be included in this and not with Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. It didn't impact us at all. It was a quiet neighbor. Quiet neighbor. Exactly. It's bad because it keeps uh there's three years of home ownership that my point is recent too. Yeah. Okay. So no that's not included but I think Fran I'll be glad to help you with the letter. Why does it impact affordable housing? Yeah, I'm I'm going to interrupt here. Um I think should include it. I I think is there is she saying that the 80 summer road that happened several years ago was also an affordable unit of Boxboro. M correct?

Yes. Then it should be then I think we should put something in there. I I I agree. It's it's it's under our purview. And if we're trying to hit home that this is an issue now, it's not an issue just once. Now it's been an issue twice. So I think secondary to this primary thing that we're currently in, we should make some sort of mention. It doesn't have to be super explicit. It can just be just a brief mention. But I do think that should be in there. Okay. You just saw two years ago it was negative.

Let's add it. So, how about something that says like like right after where it says meanwhile oh uh we're not there but the the right where it says presently the box housing board right at the at the end so meanwhile the BHB cannot carry out essential repairs and maintenance what if it's as simple as this is not the first time yes this has occurred just a few years ago there was another unit uh another 40B unit that ended up vacant for 3 years because of this issue like something Really simple. That's great. Sounds good to me. Do it. Done. Okay, great. Um, Ian, do you want me to share this with you then? That'd be great. Thank you.

Fantastic. What is next? Still Oh, okay. I hope we have one application in and I actually want to talk about one thing because You know, we've talked about how we're going to review the applications and, you know, but that has been in the context of a in-person meeting without the Zoom component. And I got to thinking about exactly how we are going to do this if if we're on Zoom.

So, I have a suggestion. Actually, it's not just me. It's me, Wendy, and Becky Harris have been talking about how to do this in a perhaps alternate way that would be more efficient and faster, too. And I wouldn't open any possibility of uh looking like we're doing anything inappropriate. I mean, the central part of this problem is that some people on the housing board qualify for this assistance,

right? So I mean somebody could look at this and say even even though it's not true and we're also and um so this is the idea actually was Wendy's idea is to have a um three people uh review the documents. These three people would be would be Wendy um and two volunteers from the housing board that that are not eligible for this program. This is exactly how we review the BE applications. So there's precedent and she we have discussed this with Becky. She says it doesn't cause any problems uh you know legal legalitywise. One could have meetings but not necessarily. I mean one could just the three people could just communicate with one another by email and quickly review these applications, make a decision and go forward with the grant. we wouldn't have to wait for uh uh you know me the housing board and then the application that's in already could be quickly reviewed and we wouldn't have to wait for a housing board. It it seems a lot simpler to me and certainly gets us out of any problem we might have about inappropriateness or perception of inappropriateness or anything like that.

So what do you guys think about that? I think it sounds great. I just want to clarify. You said three people. You, Wendy, and two BHB members. No, just two. Okay. So, if two people want to You and two members basically. No, no, it' be me and another member and Wendy. Oh, I see. Thank you. One additional. Okay. Yep. And I don't have to volunteer. Maybe I shouldn't volunteer. I do too much anyway. But, you know, if two people other than me want to do it, it's fine with me, too. Okay. But I'm interested in the program. So that's why I wanted to do it. But you know, so if you guys think this is a good idea, is that sexist? That's probably sexist.

You guys, yeah, you should. Yeah, it's not. It's gendered. I wouldn't say sexist cuz just sexist all of you. I like people colleagues, fellow board members. Got to get a little creative with it, you know. Fellow geniuses as you can. Can I step in? If you got folks folks think this is a good idea, then let me ask for volunteers. Joe's hand is up. Joe,

I just wanted to say that I'm very much in support of this approach. Um maybe we add on one more thing just for comfort and whoever gets chosen to do this um maybe just a short memo after the review happens to report back to the BHP. That's it. Like like a form, like a review form. Here's what we did. Here's how we did it. Here's the result. Here's our report to BHP. Are you volunteering, Joe? I can help either build the process and or be involved. I'd be interested in being involved. Well,

I'm more interested in help building the process um and maybe maybe making a memo standard memo form for the group that the reviewers could use. But I don't know if I necessarily have time to be a volunteer in reviewing, although if needed, I could make time. Well, and but you can help with writing mellows and everything else. That sounds good. That sounds good. Well, okay. Um, what about me and Finn? You guys can I just say one thing?

Yeah. So the way I do it with the modified beep is I I when I give the scenario to the other two people from well-being, they don't have a name. Like I'm the only one who knows the name, but all of that stuff is redacted. We should not see any non-public information. We don't need to see a name. Yeah, that's so that I'm just let so I'm trying to figure out how that process, you know, is is going to happen if things are so the only the housing board or emailed or whatever.

The aminimity. If there's a privacy concern, then we could take my recommendation away for the memo. I was just wanting something. Oh, no. I was talking about I wasn't even talking about your memo. I'm talking about the actual So when Wendy, can I interrupt? So when you get that application, because now you're kind of just the go-to, right? When you get that application, whoever else is on that team, whether it's Finn and and um Al or whomever, you three can openly discuss the names and concepts and whatever. It's Yes, of course. Okay. I don't do that with my other

when that report piece that Joe was talking about comes to us. We don't need we don't want addresses and we don't want names. We just need to know, you know, there was a window. It was part of, you know, it fell under the the the the confines of the program and this was the amount that was issued or whatever or authorized and then move on from there. That's all we need. Just I don't even do that. Like my people don't even know who the names are.

Yeah. So, but but when it's in the privacy, and I think this is part of why Al was saying what he was saying is because we we want to make sure that we're on the up and up, but we also want to have that respect with the confidentiality. And you do an absolutely amazing job when you sit there and you report with with the BEP program and the BAP program, right, for both of those. Um, so yeah, so we can just kind of follow your lead with that. But when you're, you know, behind closed doors and discussing it, there there shouldn't be there. I I don't think there's an issue with that confidentiality piece. Okay, agreed. Okay. Uh do we want to vote on this then? Uh yeah, I guess we should vote

that this is like the way we're going to move forward. Um, see, um, I move to vote to adopt a threeperson review team to include two BHB members and Wendy, presumably Al and Finn, for HOPE applications going forward. How's that? Sounds good to me. Anybody any sound good to everybody else? Okay. Do I hear a second? I second. All right. If there further discussion. Very well. Let's vote. Joe

I me I uh Kareem I am I. And Britney I. So that's a done deal. And I Oh, I'm sorry. I seconded. Yeah, obviously exclusion. Yeah, but okay. Very good. So, we're done with that. What is the next thing? Oh, the physic uh Oh, I do you have do we have any update on the housing production plan thing? I know Alec was trying to send in get some money, but I don't know how that's

Yeah, so we submitted to the um Oh, I used to know all the acronyms. um for the MAPC their technical assistance program TAP. There we go. TAP funding. Um and we will find out sometime around February whether we uh got the regional uh metropolitan area planning organizations funding for that. And then state grants uh those applications don't come around until June is when they're due. So we still do have time for that. In the meantime, Alec and I have uh we met brief we discussed this briefly last week or before Christmas um about what this next year will look like since we're taking the approach to um hopefully get uh outside funding. And that would mean taking this summer and this fall to do I call it table setting. Um where we as a board are making coordinated efforts to do some outreach to the community. Um discuss amongst ourselves where we see needs in the community. um gaps of knowledge or research and uh directions that we would like to take this plan. And we think that the town um or make informed decisions on our outreach of where this plan should be going so that once we do acquire funding for this plan, we can take those uh first steps in the right direction and we're not just kind of sitting with whatever consultant be it MAPC um and trying to define that process, but we go in with a really clear vision of of how we want the the plan process to proceed. Um, yeah, that's that's pretty much all I have on that. Joe, did you Oh, sorry.

No, no, you can go jump first. I thanks Ian. I think you may have answered my question, but order of operations um summer and fall like tableabling outreach will m be in summer. I'd say summer for now. I remember actually now uh Alec had proposed obviously this is all proposed and some goals set for this but I know he wanted uh to see something at the end of the summer kind of culminating whatever research outreach um or or uh tableabling that we do do. Um so co so my question is

is will MAPC I'm sorry MAPC will we already have notification of TAP funding by then and will they be involved or is the Yeah. Yeah. We'll have notification of TAP funding by then. Um we would have only recently submitted our state funding grant in June. Um it's lovely. Uh yeah. So, so we'll still we'll have like half of our funds by the time we're doing most of this work um and seeking the the the rest of that.

I also think that it bolsters our our our application in case for the state grant when we apply in June and give them this, you know, pre-planned outreach uh effort.

Yeah. All right. This really doesn't have anything to do with this per se, but it's a nice segue. Um, at BLF, we did talk about putting together a group of people to talk about our housing inventory because we have, you know, 1,200 houses worth $250,000 less, another 900 with over a million, and there's a really small amount in the middle. And honestly, the only way to address it and and BLF is looking at it in multiple ways. We're not seeing any new growth. We're coming up against Box for Leadership Group. So, it's members of um the big boards for lack of a better word

and um select boards. I got Yeah. So, um we're looking at the fact that we we've had limited growth. We don't have a lot of businesses coming in. So, the economic development committee will be working on trying to attract more business, but in the meantime, we do see there there's just a der of housing in that mid-range. And the only way to address that is going to be with zoning. So what we're hoping is to put together a group of people that um can help solve this problem because we we've got to change the zoning from one and a half acres and or we've got to I shouldn't say it that way. I'm saying it wrong. We need to create pockets of however the planning word wants to do it of areas where you could have higher density units with common septics and common wealth so that we could build moderately priced housing. I am going to be putting a lot an ANR lot on the market for one house for $450,000 because that's all that can go on that lot is one house. So that's what a piece of land is worth now. So a builder can't build small. We have basically zoned out the ability to build moderately priced housing. So we we think it's important that for the diversity of our town, for the health of our town, for you know um our our fiscal sustainability that this is something that we should talk about. And if the town says no, we don't want to do it. Okay. But we do think that that we've got to pull someone together and you will be invited to participate with that. You know, someone who does, you know, we're not there yet, but that's we did talk about that. You know, you're talking about something that's kind of my uh my uh pipe dreams. You know, when we of course the housing board tends to concentrate on affordable housing and maybe rich people tend to concentrate on multi- multi- billion dollar management, but is anybody

looking at the whole spectrum? Is anybody asking the question, what would the ideal spectrum of housing be for a community like Oxboro? And if we can identify the ideal spectrum um what can we do to achieve it? Maybe it's zoning like you say but um I think since we're above 10% we in our housing production plan could we have the liberty to adjust to to address this more general question? Yeah.

I mean you know it's crazy. Why should we just concentrate on one end of the spectrum more the other? Shouldn't we look at the whole thing and see what what's good for Boxboro? It's a whole

Cuz that is what we're missing. That 500,000 to 800,000 there. That that is where the bulk of the buyers that I see are coming in. People want to move here for the schools. They want to raise their kids here. It's a beautiful town and they can't. There isn't anything. There's nothing. So, so, so again, we are cognizant of that. It did come up because of taxes. It did come up because of our levy limit and the fact that we've had no new growth. So that it is being driven right by financial rationalization, but I also think there are a fair number of people in town that do think we need to open the doors to more of a diverse population. Yeah. All decisions don't. Yeah,

and I'm using the word diverse as economically diverse just to be clear. Yeah. I mean, one of her things. Why? But you because you're opposed to like ethnic diversity. No, I just want to be Yeah, because you girls are No, you're not. You're women. Al, save me. Save me, Al. Sorry. I was just teasing you. I'm so sorry. Joe, did you Joe, I think did you want to say something? Yeah. Uh Kristen, thanks for sharing that awesome information. I'm glad it's being

uh prioritized. Um I'm not asking for I'm not asking for a BHB member to join the leadership group, but I am asking for somebody from the housing board to be part of that specific discussion. Whether that's our chairman Al if he has time or a delegate. I really think the housing board has to be at the table with that discussion. Yeah. Our next meeting, our next BLF meeting is um Fox forum. Did I say group? It's BLF. Sorry.

Our next meeting is February 15th. I haven't put the agenda together yet. We're probably going to be getting ready for town meeting at the next meeting. So, I think Joe would be after that, but um 7 o'clock on the 15th, but I I'm pretty sure on the 15th 7 of January or February. Oh, January. Okay. Yeah. Um at any rate, I I'll keep you apprised because we do have to put it together. Yeah, that's right. I think u we are just we're all boxers ask me what to do what's best for box be myopic and so that's a good idea. Thank you.

Well, you need to know there's going to be a lot of people that are going to say we need to preserve open space. We need to preserve our water. There's a reason for the zoning. But we're all going to have to be open-minded, I think, and get way up here and look down on it and figure out solutions that meet everybody's needs.

You you mentioned an inventory and uh I don't think I mentioned, but this was driven by a need for datadriven um solutions and and uh information for the residents. So when you said inventory, it clicked, I was like, that's a huge part of this thing that we're doing over the summer to prepare for that is is getting this inventory that you're talking about. So hopefully there'll be a lot of really good information that we unlock and are able to to to get out to residents to get them to start thinking about this. So Oh, we're really going to need you and Alex to be part of it. No, no question. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you very much. Thank you, Joe.

Um, let's see what's next top. all the public resources said I have the trouble is I I'm really one of the spirit people who's against blind copying but I think that uh that notice has been sent to everybody. That's what I was told from Rebecca. Do you mean the training about that override? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. You got it. Yep. I'll be there tomorrow night virtually. I I I included it because, you know, I think Thank you, friend. Thank you, friend. And I hope I hope April gets qu. Oh, yeah. Me, too. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

Anyways, right. Um I included it because, you know, we do add stuff and it's Yeah. Good to know how you get yourself into trouble. what's allowed and what's not. Yeah. Yeah. No, now I will tell you we are not going to need an override this year. We are absolutely going to need an override next year. So the select board and the FINCO will be asking people to start thinking about above that because it 100% we are going to have an override next year. All right. And so that I'm glad you got it and I think it probably would if you could attend it would be useful for future

things and we will be advocating things in the future. Yeah, I definitely appreciated when Becky followed up with an outside of typical work hours option. My new job, but like my old job, I used to have so much flexibility and now I have zero flexibility. A lot of people said that I am with that. Yeah. Yeah. I was really I was like, "Oh, thank you." Yeah. No. And thank you to KMP for accommodating. Definitely. Yeah.

And let's see. The final item under new business is the divorce application. I don't see any need to discuss this in detail. I didn't include all the the ticklers. It doesn't involve any affordable housing, but it does show that uh we they are proposing to make one dwelling into two dwellings and I think you know that's another thing that we ought to uh be aware of and and consider. I mean, you know, it it it's certainly possible, but anything from um you know, what do they call them? Accessory apartments

to actually making another separate dwelling is u is it increases our housing supply and even if it's not affordable, I think it has a beneficial effect on the price of housing and so on. So that's why I included it just for your attention. So, is she did um Kathy have to go before the CVA because it's a square footage 940 versus uh no special permit. Oh, special permit. Okay. So, yeah, I I included all that stuff. You can read it more.

Yeah. How did how did you become aware of this? Was Mary did the zoning board pass it on to you? Yeah, I'm part of the stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so sometimes I just ignore those things, but you know, I thought, you know, okay, this doesn't involve affordable housing. So per se, it's not our business. However, um it does create more housing. Yeah, it is our business. It also helps us seniors stay in if it that if that's Kathy's personal house, that's allowing a senior to stay in town, rent legally rent out the other half of her house. And that's part of what ADUs are for, right? Is to help people stay in their homes.

And my understanding of the ADU thing is that we now have you can have one ADU by rate across the state. Is was that like a new law all the maximum of 900 square ft. That's exactly why Kathy is uh before you know 30 something feet over. 44 square ft over Oh, thanks for bringing this to our attention. Um, I think we should probably look at these in the future, but I from my perspective as housing board, we should be overly supportive of ADUs. I agree.

I think so too. I think we shouldn't be too myopic in our views. I mean, anything that creates more housing really serves the interest of affordable housing in my opinion. So, I and we ought to be open-minded in that regard. Yeah, agree. Will you be responding to I I thought I would respond and say something like we we appreciate the fact that new housing will be developed as part of this and we encourage um creative housing creation. Yeah, creative housing development like ADU. Yeah,

I don't think I qualified or I was qualified to talk about the details, but that would make a general state of the month. Agreed. Okay. Uh oh. And the next meeting, what's next? That's the next thing. Yeah, the last thing. The next meeting. I'm I think we should keep it at January 27th. Even it's even though it's closer that's fine. Um but we tend to have a lot of stuff on the agenda and you know we do. Yeah. We're so efficient that we do it.

Please remember to uh let Diane know uh or me know but Diane wanted to collect any topics you'd like to discuss cuz it's pretty easy to to uh for Yeah. overlook something. Sure. Try to make I didn't send out a message today this meeting because Al and I agreed with the timing. It wasn't necessary. But do feel free to say something if you have something to say and that includes Corine. Thanks Diane. Sounds good Diane. Thank you. Okay.

Hey you know you guys I just thought of something. Um D Do you need to let the board of health know whether you want Jim to continue pursuing access to that unit? Cuz basically said, I don't know who to send it to. Well, technically, we do have a name now. You could send it to this attorney, but I'm just wondering if you need to give Jim some direction. I mean, is there any reason to help?

Yeah. Uh, yeah. Is there any reason to stop it? Like wouldn't it couldn't it still be I guess we don't need to get if you've been in the unit I guess we don't need to have them in there anymore. I I don't think you do and I don't know but I also don't know the pros and cons of going it forward but I but I do know that Brian Lynch said that um the board of health had actually voted to ask him to do this and I don't want there to be any loose ends. Good point. What do you think? I don't even know why that popped in my head. Sorry. That's good.

That's how these things work, you know. I mean, part of me is like I don't see it being harmful for him to continue to try. Like if they already voted and it's it's all on the up and up, like I don't see any downside. Maybe it's just like a progress update. Like he can confirm what you saw or can say, "Oh, it's actually cleaned out more." Right? Like it seems like that we only have information to gain, right? Like I don't I don't see any reason to go through the steps of being like, "No, no, no. We went through all this. Now you can stop, but I'm open. That's just my gut reaction." Oh, sure. Okay. Well, that's what it is. And and we have Jim one day a week. So we taking him away from other things. So

Okay. Yeah. So that's a Yeah. perspective I didn't have. I mean Yeah. We belong to a consortium. So we No, I think he come I think he comes in twice. Maybe twice a week. Okay. Even I'm getting it's limited. The plan is taken. Yeah. I mean, I could be convinced that it's worth stopping. Well, I could get uh send some email to Brian and say uh we decided we we didn't realize that we had the access to the orphan that we or just that we were able to gain access. Yeah.

Yeah. and u please uh tell Jim that he doesn't have to keep trying or something like that. I think that's reasonable.

Is there is there a way just to kind of pause it versus saying we don't need it because now I'm afraid if we do need him to come back in some capacity, it's going to have to go through all of those channels again to be revoted on and things like that. I I don't know how it works with the board of health. I I think I mean I I think that um the way I see it is you asked the board of health for assistance and now you could say we're okay for now. We'll let you know if we need you to reop for lack of a better word. You know, I think a better word just letting him know at this time we're all set. But don't throw away the paperwork. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. If we can do that, I think that makes sense. Agreed. Um, you want me to do that? Somebody else want to do it? No, I can I can reach out to Jim. I've been in communication with anyone. And like I said, I'm going to offer if they'd like me to do a couple of dump runs for them. Um, it's a box for trash going with my sticker to the Boxboro transfer station. I don't want anyone to get mad, but but I'll see and that would then I'd be able to pop in again. Sure. I'm generally a fan of using waste management systems. So, I'm like, h, no, no complaints here. I stopped the sharing cuz now we're not we're talking about something else. Yes.

I didn't realize we were back to summer road. I kind of zoned out. Oh, no. And then I heard trash and then I heard Kristen dump sticker. So, I'm like, wait, I'm missing something. Hey, Kristen dump. Well, I think we decided I think we decided that. So, all right. I think we're done. So, who's going who's So, who's going to talk? Ian, do you want to um reconvene in the morning? Find out what time the meeting is and um we can go talk to him. Yeah. Are you in tomorrow? Yeah. I'm going on vacation Thursday. That's one of the reasons I'm not in there because I don't want to get sick.

You're smart. Yeah. No. Uh, I'll I'll get in touch with I'll try to find out when Mike's meeting, but tomorrow morning and I just asked Kelly, but yeah, I don't know what time it is. I can't see it being super super early, but we we'll get in there in time. Okay, great. Well, uh, I will entertain a motion to Oh my god, this is the earliest ever. Don't you How dare you? I can't believe you said that out loud. No, it'll never happen again. No, I want to hang out for longer. We have something we can talk about. I vote to adjourn the meeting. Do I adjourn the meeting?

Okay, you move. Can I ask one question? Yes, you may. How did we feel the hybrid meeting went? I think it was good. I think it was relatively easy. I mean, I didn't touch any of the tech, but wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I was living in dread fear all week about this. I know you have. I feel like it was just as cumbersome. Oh, go ahead, Diane. Yeah. Yeah, I think it went okay. I'd just have to learn Joe's trick of raising his hand. There's a button on the bottom.

Yeah, I know. I saw that. and and I can come in too like next time because I know Ian lives far away. I again I just didn't want to do the germs this week. I think we can handle the owl going forward. Yeah, I think we were just as um you know uh verbose and and be able to listen and talk as we are in person. I don't think it was really that different to be honest. Okay. Well, so far so good. All right. Sorry. I just wanted to ask. We'll do it again next time. And um thank you so much, Ian, for your help. No, it's nothing.

Does that mean we need to make sure that there's always like are you committing to always being in person or like you know what I mean? Like do we need to always ensure that someone is here? I usually prefer to come in person too. Oh yeah, I was just it just it would have to flesh it out right now for having there's no reason to not change in the future, but I would vote for having another hybrid meeting. Seeing how that goes.

I am a fan of hybrid forever. I just mean do the people who are going to be here rotate, you know, like in person? Like does it change? Like say you're traveling or something and you're like in a hotel room. for technology setup or for what?

Yeah, exactly. To to to use the Owl digital meeting tool essentially to be in person. I it's not something we have to decide right now. It just occurred to me that there's potentially a situation where like me, Finn, and Al can't be the people in person that at that meeting, you know, just hypothetically. It's not I don't think it's going to be an issue. set a reminder to uh reach out to board members at the beginning of the week to like just get an intention or something who's going to be here, who won't be here.

And uh I mean, as long as you know, one person's here, then it should be good enough. Yeah. Again, I don't think it's going to be a huge issue, but it just occurred to me that that might be something we have to ask. Like when you're when you send your email and you're like, "Can board members let me know if they're not going to be in attendance?" It's almost like can board members indicate their intention to be in person or on Zoom. Do you know what I mean? Is that what the other boards do? Do they actually tell people to say whether they're going to be in person or

Well, the only hybrid I can think of that has been doing hybrid for a while is Conscom and all of the members always come in person and that's just how they do it. Uh other than that, you know, EDC EDC did hybrid. I know Aby's here, so uh she can speak to that, but that was the same situation where I believe all members, maybe one was remote. Um but yeah, I think with, you know, it's totally fine to do hybrid, but with there being three of us here, obviously there's a preference for some board members to be remote. That's totally fine. it wouldn't hurt to reach out um the the week prior just to get a gauge that someone will be here. If someone's not here, then you know Wendy or I can stick around and and make sure that the that the in-person um part of the meeting is it goes smoothly.

And I'm close I'm close by. So it's nice to not have to come in every time though. Yeah. Again, I think tonight the way you did it, the way you did it for this meeting works just fine. And I think if you can't if something changes, just let us know. Yeah. Okay. Great. Go team. All right. Well, still there's nobody has moved to adjourn. I I think Oh, you did? I assumed you were frost. Yeah, I I moved to a but no one seconded. Okay, we have a second. You're thinking about it. I don't know why everybody's counting.

It's not like it's not five. I'll second. I'll second. I'll second. Okay, let's vote. Uh Britney I

You're so silly. What a what a hard worker. Uh Joe, uh hi Karen. Hi Diane. Hi. And me. All right. I've been We're returning anyway. How do you like