Fire Station Building Committee - Regular Meeting

on my cough drop. [laughter] Noting the time in the presence of the quorum, I call the Boxboro Fire Station Building Committee to order. Our first order of business is to get healthy. Our second order of business [laughter] is 911.

Go into executive session. Um, so I move to enter into executive session to consider the purchase, exchange, lease, or value of real property pursuant to Mass General Law Chapter 3A, section 21A6, where the chair declares that discussion in open session may have a detrimental effect on the bargaining position of the town, and to review and approve the executive session meeting minutes from January 5th held to consider the purchase, exchange, lease, or value of real property at that time as well. And to determine whether to make the minutes public, uh we will reconvene in executive in open session after executive session. And I'm going to take uh do I have a second?

Second. And roll call vote. Um Larry I. Uh Allan I. Priya Sund. Maria. Neil and I. Sarah I. Mac. Hi. And Brolan I. which also says we're all here tonight in person for any attendance. Okay, we'll come back. I don't What is that? Yep.

Okay. Um we're back in open session. Um I'm going to invite people for public input at this time. Um members of the public can speak either now or at the end of the meeting, but not both. Uh if you're in the room and you want to talk, please step up to the mic. If you're online and you want to speak, please raise your virtual hand or your real hand and we will see you and unmute you. Oh, we have Barbara online. Okay. Uh Barbara.

Hey. Hi. Uh thank you. Uh I I'm I was struck by your discussion um that the committee had about this traffic light at Stow Road a few weeks ago. Um, and Maria made a comment about moving from Uburn to Boxboro and how people were crazy about traffic lights. And I totally agree with Maria. Um, people don't want traffic lights and I certainly don't want a traffic light. And why people raise the issue is because this is a four-way intersection. And it can really get very dicey, especially in the spring, summer, and fall when the landscaping trucks are out. And one of the largest companies services its trucks on Burrows and on Burrows Road and they go between Burrows and and uh 111 on Stow Road and it can get pretty um complicated there. The DOT report study was done in February when the trucks, bike traffic and foot traffic are not major factors. Um, your committee has discussed discovered that we put flashing lights on the 111 sites, but not so on the Stow Road site where there's a four-way intersection, and that um we would need a regular light there, which I would be very distressed about, and it would also be very costly. So, I hope your committee will really uh consider very carefully the negative impact of having the fire station located where where they're going to have to uh negotiate for a four-way traffic intersection. The issue is not

about the convenience of the neighbors, but how it's going to impede the [laughter] the [clears throat] safety of our firefighters. Thank you. Thank you, Barbara. Is there anyone else? Uh Cindy Margowitz. Cindy.

Um yeah. Hi. Uh good evening and uh just wanted to ask um a little bit uh of additional information. Um on on the current fire station website, you've got a schedule, a uh um tax payment schedule based on um two potential scenarios of a million-doll home or $600,000 home. Um I was trying to sort of understand the model that you're using to come up with that um cost and I'm unable to sort of duplicate the model. So my ask is that you um make the model available to folks um or at least send you know I'll ask if it could be sent to me at least um in spreadsheet form so I can understand it's um because uh I was not able to kind of come up with the same numbers using what I is a typical 30-year um calculation debt schedule. So I was asked that either you make it available to everybody or at least send me a copy [cough and clears throat] of the model um so that I can understand the inputs a little bit better but I was not able to to match up my numbers with the with the numbers you folks put up.

Uh okay the the problem is I don't have the model someone on the fin or this came from Hilltop right? This came from Hilltop. So we just got it in a flat file like this. Um well it it came from a model that that was used by Fincom. I adapted it um and brought that when we used it at the um at the forum before the last town meeting over the library. That's where it came from. So that was based on the bonding company

based on Hilltop numbers. Um so we will look into the numbers and sharing a more comprehensive um view of it. Yeah, I'd like to understand all the inputs um and how the calculations done because as I said I' I've looked at similar schedules and I'm not able to duplicate the model as you're showing it. So I would appreciate that if you can make that available as sooner rather than later. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Anyone else? I don't okay see anyone? No one else online or in the room. I'm [snorts] going to move us to new business.

And so on Monday we um came down to consideration of two sites, 72 Stow Road and 984 Mass A. Our job tonight is to decide which one or two of those we want to put on the warrant for articles for the March 9th uh special town meeting. So I think we should discuss the sites. We can talk pros and cons at the sites, what people are thinking and and kind of go from there. Priya.

Okay. Um to me I looked at I I mean I know we kept both 984 and store road um last last meeting. I reviewed both of them from a matrix standpoint from an overall like what is best for our town standpoint too and taking into consideration what the chief had to say as well. I think having a site on Massav is is going to be the best option for our town and it the current the 984 site I think is even better than the current location in terms of its proximity to where the high density population is located. I think that's very very important. So, and it's right smack in the middle in my mind in terms of the population density and how it's how it's located. And the price point hopefully is um going to be appropriate for all uh for the town to stomach. And it's away from a neighborhood. We don't have to worry about like traffic and other concerns. We don't have to worry about like other uh neighborhood mitigation concerns. Yes, [clears throat] they're they're a couple of neighbors, but hopefully it is not too too close to uh them that it impacts them too much or the impact that they're going to face is going to be much better than what they are actually dealing with currently. So for all those purposes and then looking at the just the matrix alone like in terms of like how the overall numbers came about even in the matrix 984 scored better than um the store road. For all those reasons, my pick would be to go with

984. And I think the town deserves um a clear site as a committee. We should like kind of bring forth one site and explain to them why we came up with that site and rather than putting all the burden on t folks to make the decision. Okay. Thank you. Other thoughts? Okay, I'll go. So, um, [clears throat]

so first of all, I want to let everyone know what happened at the finance committee meeting the other night because I went and we gave them an update on the two pieces of property that we have that we are moving forward with from Monday to tonight. Um, and because I don't sit here as a community member, but [snorts] I do sit here as a finance committee rep, I wanted to make sure that I understood where everyone stood on this. Um, so we did take a preliminary vote. Um, after much discussion [clears throat] about this. Um, and the committee is split 33. Um because and and primarily the issue with the finance committee is that our job is to to do the best that we can do to keep taxes um you know well within reason and to look at the financial [snorts] impacts that a project or a budget has on the town and make sure that we provide the best possible scenario the least um effect and impact on taxes. So, if you look at this just on paper, strictly on paper, like we're looking at all things being equal, nothing else, this piece of land and that piece of land, 72 and 984, um 984 overall, we came up with the number looks like it's about 2.6 million. Monday night, it was 2.8, but in refining those numbers, it's more like 2.6 million more to develop. Um, and that's from now through construction. Um and so for some FinCom members that was a problem. There was that was a concern because we can get the same programming um on you know a piece of property that works well um not that far off Massav um for a lesser amount. So that said, so we did take a vote. Um, I explained a lot of different things that night, but for tonight, I'm gonna say that I'm um the way I'm going to vote is primarily thinking about that because I am a FinCom member, but also because I've

been sitting at this table for a long time and and getting, you know, input from the abutters. Um, the when we discussed the abuter issue at the finance committee, they understood it, but I I'm not sure they understood what we have been dealing with with the abutters at 72 road. They are very organized. Um they are adamantly opposed to a fire station on 72 Stow Road. Um and while 2.6 million seems like a big delta between the two properties, we had uh an abutter from Burroughs stand at that microphone and tell us that they were they have an attorney. They're going to file a lawsuit in state court. If that doesn't work, we're going to tie you up in federal court and we're going to tie you up for 10 years. That $2.8 $8 million or 2.6 is going to go away really quick. Um and so there's that. There is if we can't pass 72 Stow Road to town meeting or at the ballot um then we have our firefighters again delayed in getting to a decent place to work and live and that's the key. They live there. So um you know I explained all of that but for me it is those two things primarily. I do think 984 is a good location. It's on Massav. Um the chief said that he that part of town is closer to response time is closer to 495 and the most populated area in town which is important. Um so I think not being quite in the center of town is is not that big of an issue because the benefit on the other side of not being there. Um would I like to do it at 72 Road for lesser money? I would. I just don't think that ultimately it would be lesser money. I do believe that ultimately that savings would would quickly dry up in legal fees and delays and we cannot afford any delays. I mean, uh, if this fails in March, we've got another 6 to 12 months and that's, you

know, I mean, that's $4,000 a day. That that's a real number that we can justify and we have justified. So, um, finance committee is 33 and I'm going to vote for 984 for all the reasons I just listed. And I do think, um, I think it's the right compromise, which is what people have been asking us to look for. How can we make this compromise so that we can get the entire town on board. This has divided the town, which I think is is pretty sad. Um, it's not divided the town. It's divided neighborhood with the town, I think, because a lot of people in town don't really know what the discussion is, but I I I just I think we just need to put this to bed, and I think 984 will get us there. So,

thank you. Other thoughts, Mac?

We originally thought 72 Road was the was the right place. I still believe it's probably a a good place. I don't believe it's as good as 984. Um, we've had a lot of discussion with the chief and others about wanting the firehouse visible and on 111 uh for response times. I think that's very important. We tried that. It did not pass at a town meeting. that seems like uh going back and trying that again. Even though obviously there were issues with with zoning and maybe some other issues uh timing issues that that were against us, but it just does not make sense for us to uh go go that direction. I don't think as far as putting two sites up. I [clears throat] have been opposed to that some from the beginning. Um it just seems to me that if we would ask the town to decide on between two things and on one hand they are going to listen to a 10 or 15 minute presentation even though as excellent as it will be from Mary that they that their their knowledge on which to vote is going to be based on 10 or 15 minutes and here's a group of seven people who have been working for a year and a looking at thousands of pages of notes, having experts with our architect [clears throat] and OPM uh to guide us through things. Listening to the chief, we've had a lot of information uh presented to us. I think we need to stand tall and make a decision uh on one on one site that we put forth for the town. We obviously need to explain why we are making that decision. But um you

know the the the governmental process that we have in this country is that people elect people to represent them to make decisions. and people elected a select board here and the select board appointed a group of seven of us to uh study this because not everyone could is going to spend the time that we have uh looking at all these uh all this information. So we've looked at a lot of things and I don't know what the board is going to uh decide but uh my two pieces are that we should just put one one site forward and I will be supporting 984. others. Talon,

one of the things that we've heard from the very beginning of our process was cost, cost, cost, cost cost. And we looked at a variety of sites, a wide range of costs to procure those sites. And we've come down to the two sites that we're talking about now, 72 and 984. And I think it's important for people to realize what it costs to pay for the extra $2.6 million difference if we were to choose 9.84. If you have a $600,000 home value, the cost to incur and pay for that extra $2.6 million is about $50 a year. If you have a million dollar house and you're going to finance that extra $2.6 6 million cost. The cost to you is about $80 a year. Point being that the cost of these two properties is so close together, it's almost irrelevant to choose based on cost. So, what's left? We did uh studies at 984 to ensure that the past history of the site wasn't hiding anything untored that would cost us money down the road. Um the abutters are very much in agreement with selling the property for the purpose of having a firehouse on it. Um it's in an excellent location on a major road through the town where it's visible, easy access in both directions. Um and I tend to agree now. At first I was worried about the cost, but I'm no longer worried about the cost after we've drilled down and find out what the real cost is. I'm uh in favor of the 984 site. Get it out of the residential neighborhood, make it visible to everybody in town, easy access in both directions. The chief's in favor of that site as well as he was of the other site. Uh so I've kind of convinced that

we don't need to bring two sites to town meeting. I think uh we've chosen the proper site if we bring forward 984. Great. Thank you, Larry or Sarah. I think all the points have been made and I agree with 984. I think the the one um point that hasn't been made although we talked about it being a highly visible and central site is it's going to be the largest investment we've made in this town in the history of the town and it's going to be a beautiful building and we should be proud of it and we should see it and this site allows that to happen. Great Sarah.

Um, we've gone on a quite the journey on this committee. [laughter] Yes.

Um, looking at all the different sites, taking all of the, you know, different concerns into consideration. Um I think my understanding of the whole process and following my logic and then also factoring in listening to the community um has really developed over the last year and a half. If I can reflect for a moment um although I understand the resistance to the stove site, I might not agree with it but I can understand it. Um, but I think ultimately the best thing that we can do um is to get this fire station built. And for all of the reasons that everyone has just said here, um, and the data that we have to show to back that up to um, is that we can get this fire station built um, and we can get it with the programming that we need in it. And I think our first responders deserve, personally, I feel like they deserve the best, but for the sake of being on this committee, I will say they deserve it at a reasonable price. Um, so I support 984 only. I think 70, again, 72 Road has a little too much resistance that um I don't think ultimately it will be the best for the community. Okay.

Thank you. I think you all make excellent points. I would add a couple points. Um, you know, I've heard [cough and clears throat] some people say that in considering the abutters, we are considering political issues over economic issues. But I firmly believe political issues are economic issues. And I think that if it were to result in delays, either because we can't get the twothirds vote at special town meeting or the 50% vote at the ballot, there's a significant cost impact. We're already seeing that over time. Um I'm a little concerned because we went to town meeting. I lose track of time. Did we go in October or December? One or the other. October, I guess. and we asked, would you be willing to pay up to 16 $6 million more to get it out on on um Massav? And it was a 50/50 split. And it was reasonable for us to say the $6 million more because the 1300 would have had that differential um and we were trying to ask in one question about everything. Um with the 50/50 split, but we're we're below half of what that differential we were asking. And I do think that it would get chipped away over time if we have delays. And I agree we need to move this project forward. So, I'm also in favor of 984 and I would entertain a motion.

I would move that we our committee uh make a recommendation to the select board and to prepare for the March 9th town meeting that we go forward with uh 984 as our site for a new firehouse. I'll second. Second. Okay. So, I heard Mac move and Maria second. Um, and we're all in the room. So, all those in favor, please say I. I. I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? That's unanimous. Thank you for that. Um, so we should have balloons or something.

I know. [laughter] I want just at least a second to say congratulations to us for getting this far. Yes. Yes. [laughter] And you know, I mean, you know, things happen in a funny way. This property wasn't even on the table before we lost the vote. Yeah. Um so, you know, maybe it's serendipitous we lost the the other vote. Um I don't know. But um everything happens for a reason. Yes. Yeah.

And for the best. So, we need to we need to vote the funds for the um site design and bid estimate. And then we're going to need to vote two warrant articles, one for 984 and one for the design and bid funding. Um I I have to pull out the design and bid from the last [clears throat]

That's not going to be it. I have so much paper from this project that I can't even keep track of it all. This packet. Okay. Um [cough and clears throat] so as you'll recall um when we reviewed the the site design fees on Monday there were slightly different figures based on the different properties and so I am trying to page my way through and not finding it. Is this what you want? Nope. Um and maybe I didn't print it. So, uh, is is Jeff online? Jeff is online.

Jeff, can you pull up the site design fees across the three properties?

And Mary, I can do that. Thank you. Yeah, I was going to say I think Steve's probably got it. Okay. Thanks, Steve. Yeah, I always forget which one you both contribute to that. [snorts] There's that. Nope. Then there's a lot of paper.

Okay. Yeah. Can you see that, Mary? Uh, that's the total product. Uh, yes, but it could be bigger. One more grid like that. Yeah, that's good. Right, Mary? You want the total which is right here? Yes. And the it's the total for 984. Yes. So that is that the 27? Yeah. 2,765910.

Okay. So, we went through the detail on what's in in included in these figures and it's for the site design in um three phases with cost estimates at each phase and value engineering and then putting it out to bid, pre-qualifying the biders and then selecting the lowest responsible general bid. So, Mary, can we just explain that once we have that? Yeah. We will have the number for construction once we do all of that work. We will have the actual construction number. No longer a conceptual estimate.

So when we come back to the town after the March meeting next year, whenever we will have that's when we we're telling the town that this 2.76 brings us to a point where we have an actual construction number to vote on. Exactly. And we have worked as a team, the board and our consultants with community input to value engineer to the most responsible number as coste effective as we can be while we also meet the needs of the program. Okay, that's correct.

Okay. And if people are in agreement with that, I would take a motion to approve the site design and bid funding in the amount of $2,765,910. So moved. Second. So I heard Pria move and Allan second. Any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. I.

Any opposed? Any abstensions? That's unanimous. Thank [cough] you. Okay. So, we're going to move to the warrant articles. Um, so we have the article for the firehouse design and bid funding. Um we So now it'll say to see if the town will vote to raise and appropriate transfer from available funds, borrow or otherwise provide up to $2,765,910 more or less to design, prepare construction drawings, pre-qualify contractors, bid the construction, and determine the lowest responsible general bid for a new firehouse including all related and incidental costs or take any other relative action there too. Do we want to modify that motion in any way? And I will say some of us were at the training last night on um campaign finance law. Um I learned some new things. This was my third time doing it. I shouldn't have been learning new things, but I did. And one is that um we the town cannot talk can't talk about the ballot vote really um in any way um except for to say there's an election, but you can't talk about the ballot vote and even what's on it. And and so but he did say you could put it into the article, the motion. So you could say something like contingent on uh uh majority vote at

at the ballot box. Yes. Yeah. I thought that was interesting too. I think that training was a different perspective than we've gotten in the past. It definitely was. Yeah. So I learned a couple things too, but I do think so I was thinking about that. I think that if that's the only place we can talk about it because we can't the town can't send out a reminder or anything like that and we can't even do it in the summary or in the recommendation. It can only be up in that motion. So, I don't know if we want to add it to the motion. I think I think we should. Yeah, because it is contingent. I think that's how we tell people this is all well and good, but if you don't go vote, combine them. Yeah. At least say add the vote, you know, this is contingent.

Yeah. is instead of to see if if the to see if the town will vote to instead of raise an appropriate transfer from available funds borrow or otherwise provide is it just to borrow contingent on a a success a majority ballot vote. I actually think we should just put that at the bottom. Um, so after their two comma,

it should be contingent upon a successful majority vote on March 17th and then we should send it to the woman from KP who told us to do that. Yeah. To make sure that's okay. co. So, contingent upon a successful majority vote in favor. What's a It's a twothirds vote, Mary. No, at the bottom 50%. You're right. I'm sorry.

In favor at the ballot. And should it say uh so that part's fine, but should it say Mike to see if the town will vote to um borrow and appropriate? Is it raise and appropriate? Is that what the the phrase is? It's not borrow. I think it be can be just borrow because that's that's all we're going to do. Yeah. Right. Borrow, right? And we're not raising and appropriating. Well, I mean technically we are for the It has that listed in there too. Borrow or otherwise. Yeah. Yeah. So, like all the different ways you can get the money. I mean, conceivably, we could put like it's on the tree. Go out back and pick it off the tree. Shake the tree harder.

This language gives the town the flexibility to say we're going to move a h 100,000 from here and borrow the rest if we chose to. All right. That's fine. Okay. And are you going to put the date of the at the end? I don't know if we should put contingent at the bot. I would put the date and see if that's allowed. Okay. have it sent to contingent upon a successful majority vote in favor at the ballot election. Yep. To be held to be held on March 17th. held [clears throat] on March 17, 2026.

Okay. All right. Any change to the summary? No, that's the language we've already agreed on, right? Yeah, we have. Um, just

and then the recommendation I changed based on our discussion. So, it still has after considerable evaluation analysis of 19 sites and plans for the new firehouse. Um, the FSB has recommended a location for the new firehouse. The next critical step is to design the firehouse and get bids for the new firehouse so we know the actual cost. At this time we have a conceptual estimate but the design phase involves three interactive phases of designing the building getting cost estimates and value engineering to keep the building at the lowest cost possible while meeting the functional needs. At the end of this process we would bring the lowest responsible general bid for the firehouse to a future town meeting for a vote. The town has been engaged in this process for about 15 years and we have made excellent progress with significant community input. It's now time to take this important next step. Additionally, we have learned from experience that construction costs continue to accelerate. So, a project like this will only cost more in the future. Current escalation costs are approximately four to 5% per year, subject to change with future construction market conditions. and our assessment of the current firehouse clearly shows that we need a new firehouse now. Thus, we recommend that town meetings support this request for new firehouse design and bid funding now to move this project forward.

Perfect. I think that reads well. Come on, Alan. [laughter] Come on, Alan. Don't you agree? Oh, I see some green. I was only going to suggest it's nothing wrong [laughter] where it says subject to change with future construction that you stick in there it's $4,000 a day [laughter] because people wonder where why do we keep saying that that's where it comes from. I've heard some people annoyed that we keep saying that and so I wonder if it irritates people. I don't know but I can go I'm six of one half dozen of the other.

I I actually there are people who ask I mean Fincom asked that the other night. I told him and then one of the fincom members took out his little calculator and was doing it and I'm like and he goes yeah it's $4,000 a day [laughter] you know um so bad idea we could say are approximately four to five% per year about $4,000 a day a day yes per day people need to understand I mean I think people really do need to understand right now when you talk about percents that's not dollars right but when you talk about dollars It's real money. $4,000 a day is a mortgage payment and then some. Yeah. Per day.

More than my monthly, right? Pay more. [laughter] Okay. Um so, um so you can put the money, the dollar amounts will all be put in there. The 2.75 and change. Okay. Um yes. Um so we have that goes at the top. Is it anywhere else? It's here in the second in the summary as well. Yep. Um, okay. So, I always get confused. Do we need to vote the motion and vote the recommendation or do we just vote this whole thing as one piece?

I think we'll hold as a one piece. No, you do separate because you have to vote to for the article to to recommend that this article be placed by the That's what I thought. But I thought you all thought I was not sure last time I get

because we could because the vote for the recommendation could be divided but we may all agree to put it forward for the warrant. So that's why you do two separate votes. So, can I have a motion for the warrant article to read to see if the town will vote to raise and appropriate, transfer from available funds, borrow, or otherwise provide up to $2,765,910 more or less to design, prepare construction drawings, pre-qualify contractors, bid the construction, and determine the lowest respons responsible general bid for a new firehouse, including all related and incidental costs, or take any other relative action thereto contingent upon a successful majority vote in favor at the ballot election to be held on March 17th, 2026.

So moved. Second. Okay. Any discussion? Sarah, what happens if KP Law comes back and says that it needs to change? Do we have to have like another quick vote? No, we can we can um if the change is we can add to the motion. Um the intent is the same. Yeah, the as long as the intent is the same. Any changes that need to be made, we approve of that legal says we have to. So if KP law says you got to take out that whole thing. Yeah. Um which would be counter to what they said last night, but whatever. Um that would be okay. or if like we have to drop the word um you know more or less whatever it is as long as there's not a substantial change to the wording that Mike can make that change. Okay.

So we should So are we going to add that like somehow add that to the motion? Okay. And um to the motion I'm adding that any minor adjustments can be made based on input from legal counsel. Yes. Y okay. Um, so Mac, did you Yes, that's fine with that. You moved it. And who seconded it? Alan. Allan. Mac moved. Allan seconded. Um, all those in favor, please say I. I.

Any opposed? Any abstensions? Okay. And then um you have the recommendation and we amended it to at the parentheses to say about $4,000 per day, comma, subject to change, etc. Yeah. Yeah. So, can I have a motion to approve the recommendation as edited? So, moved. Second. So, Mac moved and Allan seconded. Any discussion? So, um I'm [clears throat] sorry. Yep. No, that's what we're here for.

Do we have to vote to recommend this and then vote the recommendation or is that all in one? Like we voted the is it just voting the recommendation? Typically you you do separate typically do one one to recommend it and then and then this the next vote would be the actual wording of the recommendation. Right? So it so it wouldn't be inappropriate to do two votes here. to recommend. And then because that's how we get the numbers to the recommendation, right? Yeah. Okay. So, do you want to go in the regular order and first vote our recommendation?

Vote to So, I move that we vote to recommend um the acceptance of the fire station bid funding as presented this evening in this article to the select board. Recommend to the select board. Second. Okay. Any discussion about this? Actually, not to the suck board to ATM to downtown recommendation. We've already recommended town meeting. Yeah. Okay. You second that. I second that. Okay. All right. All those in favor of this article, please say I. I. Any opposed? Any abstension? Would you speak to that about our responsibility to the select board and where are we and where is that in this process?

Um I thought we had to recommended to the select board. We've recommended the article to the select board. Right. This we're recommending what's in the article to ATM

because so our recommendation to the select board is made through our wording of this and giving it to them. But because of the timeline we're on, we I have to turn these around I think by tomorrow morning. Um so we know what I'm doing tonight. Um, and so there's not time to do a back and forth. And they're paying attention to our process. They know we're recommending this. They could conceivably come out and vote. They could put 72 on the warrant and we can't stop that. Um, so they can consider what we're saying. They could change it.

So that will that be true of the warrant article for the buying the land too? That that's all we have to do with the select board? We are making our we're so we're doing many things at once tonight. We're making a recommendation to the select board. We're not actually voting that because we're voting it through the article that we're putting forward. And is that acceptable to them as a process? I believe it is. It's what we did last time. Okay. We haven't done it differently. So, all right. [clears throat] Okay. So the our recommendation is 70 and now I'd like us to vote this recommendation as amended. So that goes back

the wording to right the wording to Mack made that motion. Allan seconded it. Any discussion on that? All those in favor please say I. I.

Any opposed? Any abstensions? That's unanimous. So, we're all set with the new firehouse design and bid funding. We're going to move to the 984 purchase of property at 984 Massachusetts Avenue. So, the way we have the article worded right now is to see if the town will vote to raise and appropriate transfer from available funds, borrow, or otherwise provide the sum of And here we're going to put um $2.4 million plus what it closing costs

are costs relating to like completion of the purchase. Although wait a minute though. Are we hoping that Mike has this information before it goes to the printer? We are. Okay. So, we don't need to put that in there because we don't want to put plus closing cost because if let's assume it's $5,000, that's going to be in the number. It's going to be$2 million or whatever. So, so what we need to vote, our motion as we vote it is going to be $2.4 million plus closing cost within reason. Like, you know, we should cap those closing costs. It's like $200,000. We need to have another conversation kind of thing. Yeah. But right. Does that make sense to do it that way?

Okay. More or less to purchase for public safety purposes a part certain parcel of land located at 984 Massab Boxboro Mass shown as we'll have Alec put in the assessor's map and parcel number and containing approximately do we know the acreage? Approximately four and a half. and we'll get the exact number. 4.5 acres. This includes the land acquisition cost and related expenses for the purpose of constructing a new firehouse and for all other related fire and emergency medical services or emergency management purposes. That language is taken from the zoning article.

Good. and further to authorize the select board to enter into all agreements and execute any and all documents as may be necessary to affect said acquisition or take any other action relative there too. Any other changes to [clears throat] that? Okay. So, do we want to make this have to go to the ballot box? Oh, yes, that one. Yeah. Yes. So we want the same comma contingent upon Y.

Okay. So can I have a motion to approve the warrant article as amended? So moved. Second. Second. Okay. I heard Maria move and Pria a second. We have the summary. In the summary, we're going to add the appropriation of it's going to be the 2.4 million plus the closing costs. So, now I would like our recommendation on whether we support this warrant article. So, if someone wants to make that motion,

I move. Okay. Do you want to do this matter? Go ahead. Um I move the fire station building committee recommend to the select board the purchase of property at night and not the select board though this oh to um town meeting the purchase property at 984 Mass a for the construction of a new firehouse second. Okay. So Pria move I mean excuse me Maria moved Pria seconded. Any discussion? All those in favor please say I.

I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? That's unanimous. So that's a 70. Okay. And then here we have the recommendation which I edited a little from our last meeting. So after considerable evaluation and analysis of 19 sites for viability, the fire station building committee is bringing forward one property for town meeting to vote on. The FSBC has put significant time and effort into the site selection. Overall, we evaluated 19 properties for the project. After initial assessment, we assessed five properties in depth, including 984 Massav, 72 Stow Road, 1300 Massav, 700 to 832 Massav, and 502 Massav on 14 criteria, including total project costs, how well the site could meet the operational needs of the fire department, the impact to a butters, and sustainability. Based on these criteria and all the data provided to [clears throat] us, we felt strongly that 984 Massachusetts AB offers an excellent solution for the town. Um, I'm going to consider whether we strike this next part, but the property acquisition cost and estimated build cost is approximately $2.6 million more than the 72 Stow Road option, the least expect expensive option. But the 984 Massav property is conveniently located on Massachusetts A and is not in a residential neighborhood. Based on all these factors, the fire station building committee recommends this purchase. I'm wondering if we should drop from the property acquisition cost all the way through the butt and just say the 984 Massav property is conveniently located and is not in

I would agree with that. There no sense reminding people. Well, it's it's also not comprehensive enough. It's just it's a little bit of this and a little bit of that and I don't think it's helpful. Yeah, exactly. That may show up in a FINCOM recommendation just but because we we're dealing with the money side of it. Right. Right. So, in some fashion. Absolutely. That's fine. [clears throat] Um but it could be in the [cough] presentation as well. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do think there's a few things that we talked about tonight in these articles that I want to go back when we get there and say we got to talk about this in the you know when we when we present is there I was going to say is there anything else that we think that's a pro that we should list there right

because the next sentence says based on all these factors true um we I mean just being closer to majority of the population I think it's that's a big yeah I was also thinking that Um, I don't know how to say this, but it can fit the programming that y we Yeah. Yep. feel. Yeah. I can fill in the blank. You know what I mean? The 984 Massachusetts AB property is conveniently located in Massachusetts Avenue. Is not in a residential neighborhood. She sounds like a a realy commercial.

Sized to um easily fit the program. Yeah. easily and allow sized but somehow um one of the questions that came up in fincom is is there flexibility on that site because we had 13 acres on 72 road there is flexibility to to fit the program it's not just size I mean there's also flexibility do we do a one story do we do twotory we have a little bit more flexibility in design so should it's should we say instead of is size say has flexibility to fit the program yes I think so

has flexibility to fit the program. Um, and is located um well to serve the needs of the population west. [laughter] um the but but not just the population to to serve the um more populated area of town. I don't make I want to make a correction on that.

Y it's not that it's the more populely populated areas are there that I just want to clarify that it's not that the majority of the population is there. It's our densely populated housing units are there. Right. That's all. So is located well to serve the more densely there it is populated areas of town. Yeah. Based on all these factors the fire station build committee recommends this purchase. Good. Perfect. Okay. All right. Can I have a motion to approve this recommendation as edited as revised? So moved.

Second. So Pria moved and Allan seconded. Um all those in favor please say I. I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? That's unanimous. Um Mike, can I ask will you have closing costs for Tuesday or approximate closing cost for the FINCOM meeting on Tuesday? I will try. I don't know if I'll have them by then because I don't know how much uh work council will have done from the night before last until Monday. But if I can, I will. Just if we just get some number approximate. Um, yeah. So, that would be great because they're going to want some number. Yeah. Because if he was in court for three days, he probably won't have even been able to scale, right?

You know, how much time it's going to take, but I I'll uh I'll touch base with But like, you know, I mean, we know that some of the stuff is fixed costs. Yeah. And then there'll be hours fixed cost, but the the hours is going to be the the larger amount, right? Um, but I'll I'll touch base tomorrow. Um and if I don't have it then then again Monday. Okay. Okay. I'm going to make an editorial comment. Um this is really significant

and I want to thank Context Jeff and Emily. I want to thank Steve at Vertex and Mike and the chief and all of you for getting us here. It's been a lot of work. It's been a lot of work in a difficult environment with a lot of um a lot of input, but not always pleasant input from the community. And um I I just think we've really stuck it through, done the job. I you know, this isn't what we recommended the first time and nobody is concerned about that. We made a good choice based on new information and I am very very pleased with how we got here. So, thank you all

and thank you for your leadership to get us here. All right, so that takes us to public outreach. Um, we've talked about that. We talked about that Monday. The only update there is, uh, Alec has sent out information to the boards. um and he sent out information asking if anyone um you know anyone who wanted to reserve a table and then he immediately emailed me and said well you have the most articles I already have your tables um and he said we're going to have four tables so that's what we're going to want to prepare for

can I make one observation um you know before you get too far away from talking about the sites back at the time when you unan unanimously brought the other site forward that was the best site based on the information you had at that time. Absolutely. Right now you are bringing forward the best site based on the newer information that you have and looking at all of the sites you've reviewed. So anybody who might and I I don't think anybody would but if anybody would say well how can you recommend that? Well it's based on new information. you have a lot of new data and analysis and and community input that have brought you to a new point and you've looked at sites that you had were not available right previously.

That's right. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. All right. Um so that takes us to approval of the January 5th minutes which I have to say I was surprised we even got because that was Monday. Yeah. [laughter] Um but she did them expect them quite quickly. Um, so any comments on the minutes? Ellen's got notes. [laughter] We'll get out of the way. Yeah, exactly. We don't like Okay, come on in. I have a a question on uh the very last paragraph on the first page. The first sentences stated that phase one and phase two analyses have been completed for both sites. Didn't we? We only did a phase one on

He did say that and then he corrected himself as he was talking. So um he stated that the um it's really the phase one environmental analyses have been cleaned on both sites and the phase 2 environmental assessment on 984 Massav. And then two two lines down below that it says mass a at contain ledge.

Some areas of the 984 mass a site contain ledge and there may be need for some ground improvements depending on the building placement. Yeah. So that at should be site. Then um the second page right in the middle it says Miss Lovado stated that and I know what Miss Lovado said but without sitting here in the room and knowing what she said people reading this are not going to believe that 984 Mass a double the cost of 72 Stow Road. And that's not what Sarah meant. She meant the cost of procuring the land. No. Yes.

But it doesn't say that. But we knew what it was. But no one else will. Okay. Miss Lovado stated that based on the cost comparison of procuring the land, Massav is almost double the cost of Stow Road. Yes, that's a really good point. Yeah, that's it. Okay. Any other comments? Can I have a motion to approve the January 5th minutes as amended? So moved. Second. Allan moved. Pria is seconded. All those in favor, please say I. I.

Any opposed? Any abstensions? That's unanimous. Any other updates? Okay, seeing none, I will move us to public input at the end of the meeting. So, anyone online, please raise your hand. Anyone in the room, please step to the mic. I see one hand raised. I see two. So, so I'm hopefully unmuted. John Marowitz. Okay, John, are you able to unmute? Don't know if it's my I don't think it is. Can you hear me now? Yes.

Yeah. Congratulations on picking a site. I know it's been a lot a lot of work. So, congratulations on getting there. Thank you. I just had one question. Um, it's been a while since I heard. So, you're going to do design at, you know, for a building. How large is the building that you're looking at? Is it the same? Is it because it it was the building was a different size for different sites. So, what are you looking at for 9 984?

So, it's the same size as 72 Stow Road. We did not design a building, even a conceptual design, because we didn't have funds for that. We just made sure we could fit the same building on the 984 site. And so it's 20,000, I think 800 square ft. Okay. All right. Thanks very much. Thank you. Congratulations again. Thank you. And I don't know who that is. Mark Barbadero, I'm assuming. And Barb. Okay. Mark. Uh, yes it is. Okay. Mark Barbadoro.

Um, I just wanted to uh thank the committee and say, you know, you really did the right thing because you um you took you had two potential sites and one was making the large portion of that neighborhood very unhappy and the other site um is going to make a large portion of that neighborhood happy to have the fire station. So, you put the needs of the neighborhood, the voters, the taxpayers ahead of maybe some of your um individual preferences for a site. Um, and that's the right thing to do is to think about the neighborhood and the taxpayers who will be impacted by this. So, you're doing the right thing and you should uh sleep well uh after making this decision and you can probably expect this thing to pass at town meeting and the uh harder vote, the ballot um is going to be far more likely to uh pass. Um so, great with that. But I think the real battle is going to be when you start telling people about how much their taxes are going to increase because in the interim period, their taxes already going up. My neighbors taxes went up by $2,000 in this most recent tax bill and they're shocked. And I think that's a lot of people are going to have the sticker shock. So remember, you got the first part of it done. That's going to pass. You're going to get some design money. Now you got to design on the cheap the most affordable building that you can possibly build or it's not going to pass at all. But uh great job. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Uh Becky,

thanks. I just want to congratulate you all on making this decision. I do want to say I I have heard from residents who say, "Well, I think it needs to be a 72 because it's the cheapest and it's what we wanted." I think you're going to need to be prepared to answer that. I know I'm going to be prepared to say, well, they were threatened with lawsuits by the neighbors, which would have kept us in litigation for 5 to 10 years, and at the escalation cost, it would be way more than 984 sto um Massav. 984 Massav is going to be a great location. The neighbors there are thrilled. So, that's great. I mean, I think you guys really It was a last minute ad and you scrambled to make it work, which was awesome. So, I want to thank you for all you've done. Um, I'm going to count on Mark to be at town meeting holding signs of me out in front. [laughter]

I am hoping that people get to town meeting and to the ballot to support this. I will say that and I'm allowed to say that. You are allowed to say that. Cheryl,

hi. Um, first off, I want to thank you folks for all of your hard work, for all of the uh moments where you took the higher ground and um you um had to deal with some very emotional arguments. Um, and it's just sad that the national ethos seems to have invaded

this essential uh project. And I do hope that the people that have caused um they've ignored a lot of the hard data and the hard facts that were presented um have caused these delays in this project. And I hope those same people are prepared to um deal with the questions about the taxes because I got my tax bill to um uh the point of of several uh neighbors and there is a concern. I do support the Massav site. I do believe that some sort of meteor crashed after town meeting and gave us this opportunity, but we're going to have some hard questions that are going to have to be answered now. Um, and I I thank you again for all of your hard work on this. Thank you.

Thank you. And anyone else online? Nope, I don't see anyone else online. Okay. So before we adjourn um so we would normally I think have a meeting next week. Um but I think we've taken all the votes that we need to and so I think we can skip next week and go well maybe maybe we had the 15th on the calendar. Oh um when do we usually meet? Yeah, we usually meet the 2nd and fourth Thursday, right?

So that would be the 8th and the 22nd. We were holding the 15th in case, but I think in case isn't here. So those of us who want to can still go to the BLF meeting. Great. Yeah. [laughter] Um but that doesn't need to get rescheduled. So I'm going to say no meeting on the 15th unless you all disagree with me. Yeah. No, that's great. Okay. So now we get to go to BLF. Oh, wait. No. Um this is not relating to that but I want to really thank you Mary. It has been very contentious a lot of times and all our emotions were running high and you kept us all calm and focused on the goal and we are where we are thanks to your leadership.

Well thank you. I think sometimes my voice got a little stressed or high but we all do our best. So great. Okay. Um and with that I would take a motion to adjurnn. So moved. Second. Okay. Maria moved. Larry seconded. All those in favor, please say I. I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? That's unanimous. Have a great night. I agree. I think we should all sleep well.