Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

the time of 7:00 p.m. and the princip I bring this meeting of the Boxboro finance committee to order. Um we'll do a roll call vote. Um uh so if you say your name and present starting with Joe Stalin present and um Maria Neil and present and um I believe John is on. John Grieven, can you state your name and present please? You're muted.

You know what? Hold on a second. Is he a co-host? Okay, here I'm going to uh hold on. I don't know if they can unmute right now. Can you unmute? There you go. There we go. All right. Yeah, grab a present and um Michelle. Oh, shoot. I'm sorry. I think I was silenced. I was I didn't mean to. I was trying to unmute you. Ryan present. Okay. And I remember now John said he wouldn't make it tonight. He's got a family commitment.

So I'll also note here we have Rajan Hudson, assistant town administrator. We have Hongwa Lee, town finance director. Liz Folks from the school committee. Um Gary Kushner of course and Susan back from the Boxboro News. I think it's all who online at the moment for the group. Um, so first thing is the minutes of November 18. Are there any comments or issues with the minutes? I'll take a motion to approve. Wait, Gary's got

comment. You have your hand up, Gary. Can we unmute? Can you hear me now? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was a typo in the minutes. Maria, I apologize. I misspelled your name. I corrected it already, but I didn't even notice. Thanks. It was right at the bottom. It was the last line or second last line in the minutes. Okay. Okay. So, a motion to approve from somebody. Uh, so moved and seconded.

So, um, moved by Maria, seconded by Joe Stalpin. Um, so we'll do a roll call vote. Uh starting I'll start here on the far left of my screen which is actually Maria now. Maria Neil and I and um we got who we got over here. Um Michelle Ryan I Grieven I Joe Sin Svin I and Newton I Okay. Um

um Tony, I had one thing. I noticed on I just happened to be reviewing the minutes from the fourth and in the initial part it says I'm there and then u below it said it said I was not there and I wasn't. But in the lower part it says that I was present during the roll call vote. Um so I just wanted to make that correction to the November 4th minutes. So you not you were not there on the fourth. I was not there. That's correct. Yeah. Gary, can you make a note of that?

I will check that. Okay, thank you. Um, citizens concerns. I'm seeing Oh, I have a hand up. Elizabeth, Liz, go ahead. Awesome. Thank you, Liz. Um, can you hear me? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Perfect. Um, so Adam has been giving the school committee these lovely little like summaries, and I just feel like it's a good time to, you know, just put it in there. So, um, at our meeting on the 20th because we met like two days after you guys and then our next one's not until right after this meeting as well. So, um, we did look over the annual enrollment report. Um, overall numbers decline across the district. Um, we reviewed the FY25 budget guidelines and confirmed that our, um, we're targeting an operating increase between 37 3.75 and 4.25 range to the operating budget. um even though this is going to require reductions from level services. So um we also noted that this is actually a wider gap than what we've had in previous years. So it's actually going to be more significant cuts than there were even last year because of just the skyrocketing costs that we can't control. Um and then we had our legislators visit which was pretty interesting. We did discuss the chapter 70 formula. um you know kind of the slowness at which everything goes um and you know the legislators really encourage the committee to submit testimony at you know some of these listening sessions that are coming up as well. So we're going to continue to be active in trying to get the formula relooked at uh and get increased aid funding and more on that for what advocacy we may be able to do.

Okay. Thanks. When when does the first pass of the budget come out though, Liz? School budget. Let me double check and get back to you on that. I I think it's like after you guys make a decision. Yeah, it's definitely after late January, right? Yeah. Because they're going to make a decision on the whole whatever option and then be able to put that into the budget. Yeah. It's really late January 20s, Tony. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, thanks Liz. Yep.

So, um, next topic is reserve fund transfers. I received no reserve fund transfers. Nothing from you, Hongwa, on that? No.

Um, so FY26 budget. So last um week we went Maria and I were at the select board meeting and heard the tax classification hearing uh from our interim town assessor. Um and I sent the the actual numbers out today with the materials for the meeting. But um I'll share what I've got for that which is I went ahead and did a comparison sideby-side comparison of what we have um what we had modeled for FY26 and what actually got submitted to the department of revenue. So these are the you know the actual numbers if you like that come through. So if you look at the column G and column H, column G is what we model. Column H is what we actually um submitted to to do. So some notable differences if you go down. So new growth revenue is lower than we had estimated, you know, slightly $9,000 lower, but the trend is not is not good. Um also there is no excluded debt in that calculation. I think that's I think that's correct. I think there's I think the debt we're excluding has all been paid off now. So although we we we actually um and I've got a message in him to confirm this, but I believe that's the case in which case we had allowed for excluded debt in our maximum allowable levy which was not there. So the maximum allowable levy is actually um about a million less than we had modeled in in our model. Um the levy ceiling is slightly lower based on the fact that the town valuation is slightly lower than we had modeled. Um and actually the growth in the town was actually um three 2.7% growth in the town rather than 5% which

is what we had we had modeled. So so it's lower lower overall town value um and lower new growth. So um you know that so that so so the actual calculation then for the tax rate is slightly different than we had. It's 15.39 versus 15.06. Um and the average tax per house is slightly higher than we had estimated based on based on a actually a high a higher house valuation average house valuation that he had in his calculation. So not not too far out. But the the sort of concerning thing I think and the sort of the bullet we've dodged here is that the levy limit and the actual levy are only about $150,000 apart. So we were very close to that levy limit this with with the this year's budget.

So Tony, you're saying that the 8.85 fell off in FY25 going into 26. Yeah. But didn't we budget for that? for debt. Don't we have a budget number for

I don't think there's any excluded debt in the budget this year. I think it's just debt. So whatever was excluded for previous previous excluded debt I don't know what they were back in history somewhere. Is it school stuff maybe? I don't know. So then we should have seen it a number a drop of on the excluded debt that doesn't like a significant drop. I say I got I got a I got a message into Jim to see if we can figure out where that would appear on that chart that he you know the numbers he gave us which I sent out this afternoon. Um and maybe if there is uh some there but the number that he's using is is this number here. So that that you know that math adds up with you if you do the 2 and a half% add in the new gross revenue you get to this you get to his number basically. So I don't think he's including any exclusive debt in his in his calculation

if you if we do the 2% and add new growth. Yeah. I thought um I don't know. I just would think that we would have seen this $800,000 debt fall off in our budget. Even whether it's excluded or not, we budget we we we have debt. We bud we budget for debt servicing, not for debt itself. But don't you think that if we weren't going to service 885,000, we would know that it's well well the amount we're paying for debt servicing has gone down actually over time. So yes, we've seen that go down. Maria, yeah, sorry. Isn't this is listed as excluded debt outside of two and a half? Yeah.

So, libraries now off. The question is, is there anything that we have outside of two and a half that's still there? And that's is that what you're talking about? We know that. We know that. We know what debt we have because we got, you know, look at the dashboard. Well, we have debt, but most of our debts inside of two and a half. It's part of our operating budget, right? But it doesn't matter because we report the debt. The only time we worry about excluded or not excluded is when we're doing modeling to figure out what our debt levy is or what our um levy limit is. What

I mean that just seems like a big number. Like you see how it like kind of casually went down 23 24 then it went down in 25. So I mean I think it's worth it's worth it's worth asking the question and I only really spotted it this afternoon when I was going through the numbers here. So I've got to put a message into Jim to ask that question. has her hand up. Do you have a question? Do you have a comment? Believe this is the treasur, the DE1. She just entered this info in the gateway uh just last week. So, I can send you that info. Um the total she put it in there is 724,960 for FY26 excluded as excluded debt. Yes. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. That makes more sense in terms of these numbers here. that's gone in that M. So then I then I need to go back to check with Jim on his numbers then because um I think he's not included then that debt in his calculation as I see it. Oh, can you repeat the number again please? Uh 724,960 724 960. Thank you. Yes. So that makes me feel better. At least we're accounting for it somewhere. Yeah, that number would be the the into the gap between the levy limit and the levy.

So, it means we had about a million dollars of of which is where we thought we were. Where we thought we were. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't I don't really know why. Um unless we've been reporting it wrong. Yeah. You got to talk to Jim about that because that should be somewhere. You think? Unless he doesn't report it on his form, his classification form, but it's still um the calculation brings us to 28196591, which would imply that he is not using in that calculation, right? I suggest check on that. Maybe I'm making a mistake somewhere myself. So, I mean, I'll check on that with him directly.

He might not use it because that is normally under the treasur collector's office. So, like Hungwa said, um if a person was going to submit it, it would be our treasur collector, except this form that we got this information off is specific to um the tax rate, right? It's a tax classification and that $724,000 should be in that $15 number, 15.39.

Well, no, not necessarily. All it's is all it's in is it's in the it's in the the levy limit number. It's not in the tax calculation. It's not it's not a an expense. It's just um an amount you can allow in your levy limit. You know the levy it's in the budget. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay. So that that's why it's important to get it right. But uh Yes. Because it's a huge difference.

Yeah. Yeah. And it won't affect the levy limit next year because the levy limit is based on the previous year which is the top line there not not on it's not on excluded debt number. So as that goes down that won't affect the the actual 2 and 12% levy limit. Right. But if we're But if we're missing a million dollar or $800, $700,000, right? I mean, well, it just means that the submission would have been wrong if we if that's correct. But but I'm not, you know, I'm not saying he's wrong, but I mean something we don't understand here, I think.

Yeah. But for us and for modeling, that's a significant difference for us within that levy limit and what we'd be looking for for an override. Yes. Because next year we need to, you know, it'll be probably like 600,000 or something. Yes. That'll be part of our levy limit, right? So, yeah. Yeah. So, it's important for that reason to as we model out going forward what you know what our what our level is going to be for next year. And the um the FY23 24 numbers, those are actual DR numbers off that form. Yeah. Yeah. So, we have so we've been reporting it to the state with those numbers included.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. I must have got it. Yeah. That came from the the gateway, right? The Right. That came from If that came from the gateway, then we need to figure out. Now, the thing is it could be reported differently. The treasurer could report it and then when they go into the gateway, maybe they do something to verify. But that's what we need to figure out. But as long as these other numbers have come through the gateway, at least we know that we've been looking at the levy, maximum levy properly. Yeah, Gary also has his hands up. Hey Gary, go ahead. Yeah, I'm looking at the assessed value. Anybody understand why we dropped $40 million in assessed value of the town?

Did he talk about that? I don't remember him mentioning. We didn't drop We didn't drop, Gary. We went from 25 to 26. We we actually increased it the FY26 model. Sorry, model versus

so it grew less. It grew by 2.7%, we modeled 5%. So we we we overestimated the actual growth of the property values in town, which is a question I actually asked um the assessor at the meeting at select board was are we have we have we been up are we up to date with our with our property assessments and value assessments in town if we haven't grown that much? He thought we were okay. So what you know, so in other words, are the values of houses being captured correctly in this number?

So is there any way that we can get a more solid number from the assessor for FY27 as we start budgeting and get the reports together? not solid, but like more of a like make sure we're checking these numbers and they make sense, right, as we do this, I guess. Um, because we only went up two and a half%, but we showed it a 5% increase because we've generally when we do our budgeting on we've always used that 5% on the average on the value. Yeah, we could consult with him, couldn't we, and say, "What should we put in here for an estimate?" Yeah. Based on what you were seeing,

right? Because he's seeing stuff come across his desk. um when stuff it gets recorded and stuff. So that's you know he's understanding what's moving and what the values are doing in in Boxboro. Right. Right. Right. I think that's a good idea. We should do that. I mean I think I think we just you know this is this is all in a way fine-tuning of our system um that we haven't really had before. Yeah. It's concerning. This makes me nervous.

Okay. Any any more questions on this one? Um okay, next topic on about the 26 budget is an update on the on the bands um situation. Um here we go. So just this is this is an update of the slide I showed for the last dashboard with the current the current new ban that was taken out on in November of this year. um and where we now stand in terms of what's been banned um prior to to a bomb being issued and what's still outstanding is being voted but not yet we haven't yet taken out the loan. So, one thing to couple things to note here. One is on the top line, the ATM22 road maintenance, that's gone down because we paid off 37,500 in principal on that on that loan, which we had to do because of the time the time that that passed since the ban was taken out. So, that's gone down that number. Um you you'll also see that for ATM 2024 road maintenance that money has not been taken out yet. Um but the 25 has been taken out. So I'm not quite sure why one and not the other. But the reason it's not been taken out in 24 is that apparently Ed used money he had from elsewhere from the state for that road maintenance in that year. So did not need that money basically. Mike's telling me,

which which is fine. It just doesn't make sense why we would skip that year. I mean, you just you know what I mean? You should be taking it in the order otherwise we have stuff hanging out there for longer. Yeah. And I think that may be a treasurer question, frankly. Um so we essentially have 300,000 that we have voted and haven't didn't need to use in that year. So the question might be do we need in the next town meeting to take another 300,000 or can we use that 300,000 for the 26 road maintenance that saves a chunk of money in the budget? Yeah.

Would that article to move it from one to the other? A warrant article? No. No. He can just use it for the roads. The way it's written is it's it's for road maintenance. It just happens to be voted in 2024, but he can use it for whatever year. We would just basically skip a year. Okay. On this. Um I guess I don't understand because our roads are there's roads that we have that are pretty atrocious. So not understanding why we're not using all of the road maintenance money as it cover we talked about a long time ago.

We talked about it last year. Um, we had because we uh we talked about it a year ago because we had the ARPA money and that was kind of the balance. We were using ARPA money for that and that was the balance. I think that culvert if I'm not if I'm not mistaken is the one that I might be wrong over on Liberty. Yeah, but he's Yeah. Yeah. But was never done, right? It's not been done. Yeah. But again, Yeah. Why Why are we not doing these projects? We're getting the money out for them, but we're voting and we're not they're not actually banning. I guess we're not spending voting. Yeah, we're not Yeah, but we voted it and haven't actually used the money. So,

I think it's a question for Ed Budget Saturday, actually. Yeah. Yeah. And so, what would we do? Just not bring another Warren article to perhaps next year if we still have money, right? Because we seem to have one of these every year to do the roads and stuff. So, yeah, I think we I think we we've got a year bonus. I think we don't need to. Yeah. So, we just would bring mine to the next annual in May or whatever. We still have the money potentially. I'm not saying we don't, but you know. Yeah. Yeah. No point. There's no point taking voting money that we're not going to use if we, you know, if we got money there that's already voted that's usable

for long term. Um, you know, Maria mentioned why not use it and do more roads. Um, I remember Ed mentioning that the cost of the roads is is skyrocketing because they're petroleum based and you know the all the materials and every basically everything that goes into the roads is so expensive. So could it be advantageous in a long-term strategy to use some earlier than rather than stick to the three since we already have it sticking to 300,000 every year we could get ahead on something that

question Michelle you have your hand up. Yeah, I have more of like a tactical question. As things like this, like the the DPW chunks of money gets used, is that something we check once a year? Do we have like visibility in that in clear gov? Like as things happen? How how often do we check in on these? Um, we don't, you know, until we see a ban's been taken out, we don't know whether he has spent that money or not. I don't think except for now because Tony's been working on this financial dashboard. So now we have a clearer picture. We could check on this quarterly if we wanted to. Right Tony? We could do. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Because So Michelle, before we didn't have any of this transparency at all and Tony created a lot of this. Um so I think we could look at this quarterly if we wanted to. Yeah. Thinking it could be a really Yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure what's going to change though because if we're not going to take out a new ban on any of this stuff until next year now, I don't think. Well, why not? Um, we could I mean, we could pull the trigger at any time. So, if the for instance the fire engine replacement, right, the 1.2 2 million that's voted. Um we will trigger that ban

or bond whatever um when it comes off the the initial assembly line before it goes to be upfitted. We need to pay for it. So if that happens in April, then that's when we would trigger the bond because we have to pay for it in April. So maybe we would take new bands in between between each each year. Yeah. Okay. In which case these bands they would just move over, right? Well, in which case we should keep we should look at this this this this dashboard then every quarter as you say and get updates from from Hongwa. Yep. Yeah. I mean these are these are definitely sizable chunks of cash. So I feel like it'd be good to just kind of keep tabs on what to expect on a quarterly basis.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Gary, you have your hand up. Yeah. I'm not sure you're you care, but the capital plan does include the road plans for the next about six or seven years with the amounts planned for each one. Does it have amounts planned over the next uh 3 years if you're interested in seeing it? But but um if they sp if they find money elsewhere for those roads, what what happens then? Like you know what Ed's saying to us is that there's money from the state he could use for for well there's two sources of income for roads chapter 90 and the and the money we bond at town meeting

right okay it just it it still seems strange to me that money is there that he hasn't used and uh

so if he's not doing so if he's doing small road maintenance right he's going to use the chapter 90 money because that comes in we vote to accept it every year that's that thing that we vote to accept every year that's in an account that can only be used for road maintenance. So if he's just m, you know, let's if he's filling cracks and doing something like that, potholes, he's taken it out of that money. This was put into place so that we could bump that up and we would be able to pave long stretches of roads. Um, and that's where I'd like to understand what, you know, what are we doing here? because we have money and what is the schedule to start paving some of these roads? I think they do street

and again I have that in the capital plan if you want to see it. Is it by So Gary is it by street? So like does it say Hill Road will be done? Yes. Yeah. Next year's Middle Road, right? And this year was Burrows. They just finished. Um Middle Road is FY27 along with Cobb. This year FY26 he only did Codman Hill. I thought we did Burrows too. Burrows was previous FY25. And does it have dollar amounts next to those? It does. So what does next year look like? Can you just So FY27 he's looking to spend uh 437 almost 438,000 between Kobi and middle.

So he's got 600,000 here plus whatever he's got from the state and he gets around at least this much from the state every year. So Tony, maybe it's it's Capital Saturday. We talked to Ed about this and maybe he needs to come in and tell us what his chapter 90 funds look like. Yeah, I did reach out to Ed. I'll try to connect with him before capital Saturday if possible. Um yeah, I'd be good. Don't expect to hear from this week with the snow, but um we'll see. Okay, so I'm I'm keeping track of questions for budget Saturday and capital Saturday. And so that question is Joe, um what is this plan? But more importantly, what is the chapter 90 fund balance that he has? Okay.

Okay. Good. Hung Hunga's got her hand up. Oh, Hungwa. Go ahead. Um I remember last year we received money chapter 70 came in came in around $76,000. How much? 76,000. That was for chapter 90. 90. Um, here's the exact 76591. That's not a lot of money. That's not much. Yeah. Yeah, that's not much. So, is that why we started doing the 300? Yeah, I think I think there's some some questions for Ed about the whole spending program, I think, on this. And yeah, chapter 90 sounds low. It used to be almost equal 50/50. That's what I thought, too.

Um, I thought we were running closer to chapter 90 was like 200 and change last year. Yeah. So maybe Ed can give us a history on that. But more importantly, what's he got sitting in this balance fund balance? Unless we get multiple payments over the course of a year, maybe I don't know how it comes in. Okay.

Okay. Um so next topic then is um the FY27 budget. So had a meeting with the select board last week about the budget strategy. Actually let me share let me just stop this and share a different presentation actually. Um give me a minute. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, just to remind everybody, these are the budget guidelines that um we had sort of come down to. Well, I think have you all seen this one? I think we discussed it last time we met this version of the budget guidelines. It was like a streamlined version of what we had originally talked about. Um so two budgets, A budget and B budget. A issue when you override passes and B is human override fails. Um what um Mike is positioning this as level services and level funded within his guidance to the town. Uh we're looking at 5.5% um or less or and 2% or less for B. um for the A budget freezing positions, hours and salary adjustments, you know, within the within the contracts and uh CBA limitations and B would mean would mean reductions to meet the target and therefore warrant articles um you know minimal but we will do some with bonding and free cash. Um so shared this with the select board as well as the budget strategy which is which is this this here these these bullet points here which is we'll

continue our line by line reading the budget maintain the levy limit increase up to 5.5 targets um operate within our financial policies and the idea that we would anticipate an override every 10 to 20 years so sort of plan for that. Um and then fund major capital investors by bonding. So we discussed these with the with the select board. Um and first at the end of the process actually not in the beginning but that they the voted to accept the budget guidelines and the strategy with actually no modifications. So that was good I think that we're aligned in terms of what we're trying to do. Um the other point discussed was that the first pass of budgets will be available next week from the from the town. So next week's next time's meeting on the 16th, we'll be able to look see have a first look at those budgets and I'll I'll send them out as soon as I get them. Of course, um one of the topics we talked about was the level services budget a um and the 5.5% increase. So one of the contradictions in that is the fact that we have said level services but we don't know really know whether level services is 5.5% or or some other number. So that was a question from the select board to say well what is a true level services budget look like. Um and something that Mike is working on to get back to us. Um I also noted at the meeting that we're not all agreed on 5.5%. there was there was pretty strong push back from from from the fincom on a lower target than 5.5% even for for the A budget. So I'm just recognizing that is not fully agreed yet. Um budget B level cost which means

effectively less than 2%. Um we noted obviously significant health care um which is about 20% apparently increases and pension increases for both budgets. So that will impact other parts of the budget that are not you know able to increase. Um there's discussion point about what should the budget target be for the school? Should it be based on should it a be based on the box assessment or the actual school budget increase? Um and I think there's disagreement between within fincom I know and probably within select board about which which which number you give the school do you give them 5.5% as a a budget target or do you give them 5.5% as an assessment target um so we discussed that the last meeting so that's still I think an open discussion topic um and the school committee do request clarification what the Budget target is as soon as possible so they can work on their on their B budget Yeah. Um and we also recognize that some of these targets may have to change based on the first part of the budgets um as we as we sort of move through the process. So those are all the I think discussion points we had um with the select board. Yeah, just throw it open for, you know, comments and and discussion.

Well, if not, we'll move on. It's awfully quiet. That 20% healthcare increase. I mean, like thinking about that with level funding, I mean, where do you pull that amount? I mean because healthcare is one of the largest costs and one of the largest increases on that cost. So what how do you So it means other part

yeah have to go down to absorb that that cost because that line of the budget has to go up. Yeah. Can't that can't change. So the other part will need to be lower. That's a town manager decision or I mean we we give guidance and vote on when they bring it to us but who who makes the who puts the things on the chopping block? they have um we do well no we give them a target number right and then once they bring it we say yes or no but I mean who makes the actual decisions on on if we give the guidance that it has to stay level cost and then there is a 20% increase in the healthcare I mean I'm just curious like who

well it's level cost it's level cost overall or level services overall you know it's 5.5% overall so what Mike has to do is look at the budget and he knows that that line he can't change. Therefore, the next line he gets to he has to he has to move down more. You know, it can't be 5.5%. That needs to be needs to be 2% increase to sort of, you know, do the math on that. So, that's the that's the challenge he has to sort of put together that combination I think and present to us

for us to actually then review that. What level of granularity are we going to expect from the first pass? Like is this down to line item or is this just like bucket bucket line item being it be it will be clear go Michelle. Okay. So we'll have full like visibility into what was changed and we can compare apples to apples with A and B. Yeah. You'll have you'll have last year's number um for each line item. You know there'll be sal there'll be salary line items. there'll be you know um program line items in there with last year's amount and this year's amount

and should we expect like anecdotal information like say you know budget A has a line item for 1 million and budget B has a line item or the same line item for 500K um anecdotal info on like why and like what we're missing if we go to budget B um don't know how they could present that I mean there were comments on each line I change. Okay. Or they can put comments on each line. Um

yeah, we and clear gov they have where you can put comments and and notes on um any changes for um any of the budget line items and we've been meeting with department heads this week and they've been explaining some of the changes and also we've been making additional comments on each of the line items. So you should have access to that information. Okay. Awesome. Thank you. And that should be there now actually Michelle in Clear Gard. You got a clear go. I have issues myself. I was just I was just logging in to try to to take a peek at that, but I thought I'd just ask. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't going to look until it's sort of final, but I think it's it's I think it's pretty close now.

Okay. Any other comments, questions, thoughts? Well, I guess we'll have a first look at it next next meeting on the 16th. We'll have a have the budget. So, that's the question. Who is anyone going to the next meeting? And who should Tony post a forum? What's I mean the next um I mean next BCOM meeting, right? But it's being presented on Monday night, right? At the select board meeting. Select board. Um so if anyone wants to go Yeah, I plan to be there whether in person or I think I should go as well, I guess.

Yeah. Um yeah, if anyone wants to go to the select board on Monday to hear it presented um for the first time, feel free, but let me know because if if we can be more than three of us there, we need to post a quorum. It would be it's interesting to hear the comments from the select board, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, okay. Next topic is the fire station building committee. Oh, that's me.

Um, okay. Uh, so I think last we spoke, uh, we still hadn't disclosed the address of the property, the that new piece of property we were looking at. So, at our last meeting, which was two nights after we um met, we um we we made that property public. So, that property is 984 Mass a kept secret in Boxboro. I realized this, but um and it's the tree master's property next to Mark White's property. Um and so at that point we had an awful lot of pieces of property on the you know on our list. So we um voted essentially to keep the top three and what we ended up keeping um and this is somewhat in order of what um actually it's not in any particular order. We ke ended up keeping 984 Massav which is that piece of property Tree Masters has 1300 Massav and 72 Stow Road. We took off the 502 because we had gotten more numbers on the swing space and there were some people in the community that said our numbers were wrong. They were way too high for the swing space at about 3.7 million. Mike got numbers um and had proposals from the two companies that residents had told him to check and he came in at over $4 million. So that number went up, not down. Um so we took 502 off because that just the programming doesn't work well on that property. Um, and the swing space just added $4 million that was then basically, you know, you could burn it in a fire pit and it would be equivalent because once we were done building, um, we just take the swing spaces down, give the tents back and we had nothing to show for it. So,

the swing space didn't lend anything because the project wasn't great on 502. So, we we voted to take that off. We voted to remove the Massav property 750 800 Massav which was that blue house near the construction road and we voted to take off the two middle road properties. Um so what this the properties that we've kept the three properties that we kept the there's a cost for every one of those properties. The cost basically ranges from 1.2 2 million at the lowest cost for a piece of property to up to about 4 a.5 million um at the highest cost of the property and then there's one that falls kind of in between. Um so there will be a cost for property and and and at the moment what we're doing is we're doing engineering work um b test borings environmental stuff on 984 and 1300. So to get that information and then we will hopefully be making a decision on where how we're going to go forward to town meeting. Um I don't I think it might be then we have a meeting on Thursday night. Um I think it's this Thursday and if it's not this Thursday it's our following meeting. We just have to wait for we're trying to make the deadlines but at the same time we have to wait for the environmentals and all the test borings and everything else the engineering reports to come in. Um and really that's pretty much what we talked about. Um we just at this we're we're kind of in a holding pattern until we understand better all the different engineering reports and then we go from there.

Okay. Does anyone have questions? Um, it is still our intention to go to a March 9th meeting, I think it is, um, with a, uh, an ask for design funds and property purchase. And depending on where we land with respect to if we end up with the most expensive and the least expensive, we're going to bring two pieces of property forward. But, you know, it depends on where we land. We we it would ideally bringing one piece of property forward would be the best thing to keep it you know simple but we we may need to give the town some choices. So um that is our plan.

Thank you. Um school committee John's not here so I don't know updates from him. Um unless Liz you want to say anything about the strategic options updates. Do you have any more insight for us? Um, so I do know that they're meeting tonight to kind of codify what they had um, discussed two weeks ago, which was the removal of those um, additional options, the ones that were more um, you know, like the outliers. And one thing that they're discussing tonight, which I'm going to be interested to see, is whether they present three or two options to the school committee. So, uh, more to come on that because they're literally meeting right now

and they are discussing and voting very soon. Apparently, there's a few people who have texted me and said they're about to vote. So, we'll know in a few. I do know that the communities in town, both parents and just community members alike, have still been um providing feedback to the school committee and we're very appreciative of it. I don't think I've ever read so many emails in my school committee email, but I'm doing it. I'm reading them all. Yeah. No, it is. It's a really big deal for families, especially a lot of, you know, two schools, Billard and and Conan, right? Those are the two most affected schools. So,

um, and the box at Hall at all. And I got to say recently we um as the school committee got the opportunity to tour all of the elementary schools and it was really cool especially seeing like we saw the same lesson taught like four different places in four different ways which I thought was really interesting. But it's just really nice. We do have you know six very distinct communities within town and I don't envy future me at having to come up with something to prop to move forward with. Great. Thank you. Um, okay. Next on topic is the um or just organizationally um the annual report I sent around everybody. Please have a look at it and any comments you've got. Um, Hongwa, I will be coming to you with some help with numbers on that. Make sure they're accurate um as I work through that. You you haven't seen that yet, but I've got some numbers I need to check with you at some point. That's due in January the 6th, I think. um calendar. I think um tomorrow night we have the Boxboro leadership forum. Who Who's going to that?

I'm going. I'm going to be there. Um too, but I'm I think I'm not going to be able to attend or maybe um maybe partially attend, but maybe not. Yeah, we're posted for a quorum anyway, Tony, even if anyone else shows up. Um the one thing that is on that agenda though that everyone should be aware of is um new growth and the problem we're having in town with new growth and that I think is going to be a really important conversation for all of the boards, the school because of the budgeting implications and everything else. So um we'll have a lot to report back hopefully.

Okay. Um committee reports. Um John Grieven, we'll start with you.

Yeah, sure. I got a a couple brief updates quickly. Um, Reconcom didn't have too much other than they're going to CP CPC Thursday um for the last part of kind of their phase three of three of all the playgrounds everywhere in Boxboro. Uh, you know, the first was the smaller structures at Flare, which was gosh, I don't know, 6 7 8 years ago. redid Liberty and then the third is replacing the main aging structure um at Flara to as part of the 2030 master plan and get it into ADA compliance. So that's really kind of the last thing and then hopefully there's no more playground updates or requests for like the next 20 years or so. They'll all be done. Um, we haven't had a sustainability committee meeting since we last met, but I know there were a lot of questions about the um, swap shed and why is it closed and all that kind of stuff. So, I did a little digging and there actually is a page up on the transfer station that says, at least for now, to use, and I think this is why we needed to staff and volunteer, but I haven't, like I said, had a chance to talk it over. Um, you need to show a proof of residency um, to use the swap shed. Um, so even folks who don't have a transfer station sticker can still go and use the swap shed. Um, so I think they were checking those cuz I uh I know Kate had mentioned that a few folks showed up that were like were from out of town or whatever and she's like no, you can't drop stuff off here um or you need to you know you got to live here to do stuff. Uh but then also they're still helping people learn and understand um that donations need to be approved by a swap shed volunteer before being left. And you know depending on the condition of it, they could be refused or there may just not be enough space in the shed or anything like that. Um so that's I think that's part of the reason they still just need volunteers there to keep it open. Um but that's just what's posted on the website right now. Uh but after our next meeting I'll also see if I can get any further details.

um on that and then the last thing I have water resources committee I finally had a chance to meet with less about that. Um the main takeaway from there is they are not going to ask for any money from us which was great news um to hear that um at least for this upcoming year they're really focused on so the Weston and Samson report provided a a really long list of gosh what is it here um eight recommendations um but the main one they really want to focus on this year is uh developing educational materials for residents about their septic systems and wellwater testing because a lot of folks who have moved into town or have lived here for a long time really um at least from what they've gathered don't really know a ton about maintaining their septic system or um how to test their wellwater and understand what's actually in it. So that's that's their main goal for now. Uh but otherwise no no further updates for my committees.

Right. And I um hold on I have a question for about sustainability. Last night on the planning board meeting, they did the climate change. There was a report that they did like the climate change almost a master plan. I forgot what they called it because I was cooking at the same time. Um

it was really very interesting. Um it was kind of dense, but it would be great, John, if we could get a copy of that because um there's cost implications not just for the for the residents, but for the town as well on some of this stuff they're looking to do. Um and I know they presented it to the planning board, they've presented it to the select board. Um if there's cost implications to the town, which you and I have talked about some what those costs are, um I really feel like it should be

we should at least look at it. It was a really interesting um Ian presented it last night and I thought it was it was really interesting. They did a lot a lot of work around it. That said, they only a lot of it is based on a survey. Um and my understanding is they had 140 people who responded to the said survey and to make these kind of they had listed like 10 or 12 maybe options

that were big changes, pay as you throw go and all of this stuff. um for 140 people like that is not representative our of our town I don't think so that was one of the questions that came up last night but I think you should all at least get see it and if we want maybe have them come in and talk to us about long-term costs on it because I think that we have to be aware of the changes they're looking to make um before it ends up in front of the town and and really understand the cost implications on their plan. So Okay. Yeah, I can definitely look into that. Thanks. Uh Joe Stoppin.

Sure. Um I emailed um Liz uh the chair of the um conservation commission, Liz Marowitz. Um haven't heard back, but I did review the um the video from the meeting where they discussed the CPC application. So I have the rationale from their PowerPoint and their discussion. Um I invited comment from Liz if she wants to respond for anything else to share to us. Um but the primary uh ration that they provided in their meeting to each other um were the federal funding uncertainty. So with everything going on with the federal government and um programs potentially being cut, more uncertainty on streams coming into them just having more of a buffer to withstand any sort of um turbulence there. Uh they mentioned that the $10,000 uh limit that they've had has been the same since around 2018. Um, so hasn't increased since then. Before I think it had increased a few times, but it was always in a warrant um a warrant article. So since they moved to um the way they do it now through CPC, it's been 10K since 2018. Um they did mention that internally and informally it's a one or twoyear request um sort of to bump up and do some um work um but that after one or two years they didn't expect to need to stay at that level. Um they identified readiness um as part of that federal funding uncertainty. So um they mentioned you know identifying parcels, appraising them acquiring them if that's an option. Each of those things can cost $10,000 or more. So, it's generally $10,000 to appraise uh a a parcel. Um acquisitions can be $10 to $20,000 on average. Um they also have to do map upgrades which they believe they can use CPC funds for. And then the final point, which wasn't in their PowerPoint presentation, but that they kind of have had a revelation of during their conversation was that

their current open space and recreation plan expires in fiscal year 27. And in order to um establish a new open space and recreation plan, it costs 20 to $30,000. That's usually a warrant article if they say they're going to use these funds for it. Um I'm not sure, but that's that was part of their rationale for um you know why this year requesting a funding increase. Um you know, they they confirmed that the current trust fund balance is 46K as was noted in our previous meeting and that is the highest ever that it's been. Um but they believe that those other um items were a positive rationale for the increase. Joe, were they about

Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Well, I I was just wondering, were they specific about like you mentioned that they're worried about federal or state aid getting cut? Were they specific about for what? Like are they are they sustaining any programs right now that they would lose funding for that they'd have to use the 46k for? or was it just like a general unease?

Um, I mean it was a little bit of both. There's definitely a general unease that was sort of um, you know, um, vague. U, but they they do have several programs that are ongoing. You know, I don't want to misspeak on the costs of them or the exact programs without it in front of me. Um, but reviewing on the meeting, they they did have I thought they had a reasonable rationale. you know, I come from uh a place where I, you know, conservation's in in my heart as well. So, you know, trying to be very um you know, balanced in my my perception of these things, balancing our fincom responsibility with the you know, the critical need to do conservation in a town like Boxboro. So, personally, I think that it's a reasonable rationale. I'm waiting to hear comment from Liz um just for any anything that wasn't part of that summary. Um but we'll see um when it comes down, I guess. Yeah, I think that makes sense and it's definitely reasonable. I think what I'm after is right now when we're being so fiscally aware of every single dollar that's, you know, in and around Box Bro, even if it comes from CPC funds, um I just want to be specific about what we're using things for, right? To me, this still comes off as like we're we're stashing away funds for something. Um

yeah, I think that's going to be sort of universal, you know, like I think we all know that there's some weird stuff going on and there, you know, um but yeah, I mean there's um there's definitely a balance we have to take on that. Uh you know, CPC conservation, those are sort of the the things that go away when the feds cut programs. So but but the funds would still be there in CPC presumably. It's just, you know, when they're not earmarked for conservation, they're still there in in the in in the account somewhere for future.

Yeah. I I just think they they typically use uh funds from elsewhere and the 10K keeps them afloat. Um they shouldn't be afloat. They're part of like they they have a budget. This is supposed to be for emergency. This is the frustration I have with the increase. They have $46,000. This is supposed to be for Maria Neland owns 100 acres of land and drops dead tomorrow. Her family wants to sell and town meetings in 7 months. We got to start doing like you know we want to jump on this property. That kind of that's mentioned if that does happen this year um you know it would cost 10,000 for an appraisal 20k to acquisition and then they have

then they have 15k left to do map upgrades and establish a new open space and recreation plan. So, I think they're just feeling a little bit squeezed. Even though I don't I don't think it's bringing anyone down to zero and it's not dire. I I think they have reasonable um uh rationale in a vacuum without taking into account that every other commission and board is also feeling that same squeeze. So, you know, I'm not all I can do I'm just the messenger. Um but I do they had a good I I think they had a good rationale based on my um understanding of of the way that they presented it. So yeah, I'll look forward to connecting for more candid conversation. Not picking on you at all, Joe. I'm just I'm trying to understand like

there it feels to me that there is urgency or there is something and I'm trying to dig at what the something is. Like if they are seeing around a corner, that's great. I want to be able to see around that corner, too. Um, so I'm like all for conservation, all for using the funds, but we need to be specific because if we say, hey, we gave them an extra increase for something. I just want to be able to say what the something is, I think. So, if you could keep us posted on whatever Liz comes back with, that would be super helpful. I'm sure I'll hear more on CPC on Thursday also, which is the public hearing. So, yeah, they bring this to CBC on Thursday.

Yeah, I have conversation on it. So, so if I to paraphrase this then what they're asking for is they want to build a fund up so that if something becomes available short term that we can't get to a town meeting we can sort of opportunistically pick up a piece of property for conservation. We can't do that. The town they're not allowed to buy property for understand then. Yeah. So what so what's it town vote? They just even I I think even if it's not bonded and it is only the select board. They're a committee of the select board. The select board is the only one who can buy a piece of property. They don't even have the legal purview to buy a piece of property.

So what's the money for then? That's that's what I'm trying to understand is what's this what's this float for and why can't it just stay in the in the CB CB you know CB in the CPC funds until it's needed. And and again, I'm not picking on you, Joe, because you're just a messenger bringing the news back, but I'm just trying to You get the messenger both ways. Understanding. Yeah. Understand what it is they're looking to do. Yeah. Um and do we understand what they typically do with the 10,000? Cuz it's probably that plus the other items I mentioned. My guess is Gary understands because he stood up for years and and said no to it. Gary, do you have any input?

He's still there. I will say that when we originally created the fund,

it was only for if if a piece of property came up, they had to do some assessment and it could be five or seven or $8,000 to do the assessment, whatever the number was. So, we created the fund with $5,000 each year. Um, as Joel said, sometime around 2018, they bumped it to 10,000. I got up in stage four for the next seven years and said no. We agreed on 5,000 just to create this basic fund. I got overruled every year. I finally gave up about two years ago. Um it's not a slush fund. It's not supposed to be a slush fund. It's supposed to be there just in case again a piece of property comes up and you know for the uh road the um survey that we talked you just talked about Joe the land and recreation

open space said that should be a warrant article. Yeah. Um anything like that purchase land if you remember we bought land last year for a dollar on summer road but they had to go to town meeting to do that. It's not up to you by without approval. I think they did three acquisitions this year if I recall and they they mentioned based on their constraints they expect if you know if next year there were similar opportunities they would maybe only be able to do one of those. They may have through the trust. The trust is a separate organization that has does have money. Okay. Yeah. That's not a town organization. And it's a private organization cuz the only land we bought was uh for dollar for uh recreation was summer road.

So if land was purchased Joe it was through the trust which is again Mia just said that's a private that's a private group. Yeah I just a process question. I mean we so as FINCOM do we get to weigh in on this as CPC funds? We still get to weigh in. I mean, I'll be there on Thursday weighing in on fiscal fiscal responsibility because in general though, Maria, not I don't think.

Yeah. So, we can So, we can't tell CPC how to spend their funds. But Michelle, I we've had members on the FINCOM who have been members on CPC who because the, you know, the FINCOM said, "We're not going to support this on town floor voted against certain things." And Michelle, I'm not saying you should do that. I'm just saying. So like for instance, Steel Farm, there's always FINCOM has never been 100% supportive of all the Steel Farm renovations. So we had one member who was me representing CBC that voted against it. We also will take a do a recommendation and we can vote against it on the warrant, but we can't tell them how to spend their funds and we shouldn't

because that's their thing. There is I I think Michelle might know for sure. There is definitely a conservation bucket. There's different buckets. There's unrestricted CPC funds and then there's conservation, recreation, historical. Yep. That's right. Right. So, they have a bucket of money that they can spend, but it does not mean they should be that money doesn't go away. It's going to remain in that bucket. So, if this year it's 10,000 and they don't touch it, next year it's$10,000 more, it's $20,000. That bucket is always going to be there for them. So,

I think that's why they were saying, you know, one or two year. They they said they wouldn't they didn't want to put that in their request because they didn't want to be stuck to it in case they you know needed to to stay at that higher level beyond the two years but that you know anecdotally internally they were presenting it and proposing it as a one or two year increase just to kind of get a buffer. Um you know the the the section of this PowerPoint was called strengthening the conservation trust. Um and it didn't mention that the Sudbury Valley Trust provided regional guidance on this. So it is coming from somewhere other than just fear. The problem is this isn't a trust. This is the conservation commission for the town. The Boxboro Conser um conservation trust is a private entity. Sideberry trustees is a private entity. And so the trustees can can put forward whatever guidance, but but they're not a a municipal agency. And so we need to the the conservation commission is a municipal agency. And I think that's where I understand what you're saying, but like that's where I have some reservations around this cuz they they got guidance to create themselves a fund that they shouldn't be h they shouldn't have that much money in a fund.

Yeah, that's my feeling. I'm looking at the application. I don't see any updates uh based on the original application. And you're you're right, Maria. It's open space, recreation, community housing, and historic resources. This one is like lumped into open space, but like candidly the granularity is not there. So, I fully expect to have this discussion on the floor on Thursday. And like spoiler for my my update, like CPC is having their public hearing on Thursday where we're going to be talking about the things I mentioned a couple weeks ago, which is the conservation commission, cemetery restoration, schoolhouse number two, the playground, um, and the the town hall roof. So, we're going to be openly chatting about them and I'm assuming voting on those on Thursday.

I don't think I'm misunderstanding, but it seems like even in this PowerPoint, it's conflated a bit between, you know, the CPC request and the trust fund. They literally say strengthen the conservation trust fund. So, so Phil, last time we we gave John Grieving a hard time over the swap shed. This week we're giving you a hard time. turn. Let's go back and swap. So, so it's sort of balancing out over time. So, yeah, don't feel bad. Okay, Michelle, as you as you're speaking, you can give your updates as well.

Yeah. Yeah, that was my main update. Um, I think we already touched on, but like the EDC received uh the state grant and they're putting together their economic development plan or they intend to. Um, so looking forward to staying involved in that. But my main entree this week is the CPC public hearing. Um, so that's this Thursday and you're all welcome to join if you'd like to hear more about these projects. Turns out playgrounds are just ridiculously expensive. Um, so John, thanks thanks for the diligence there. I was able to get the full packet and we are getting as many discounts as we can, but it does look like with the dilapidation and we're not in compliance with several like ADA requirements, etc. and it was last updated in 1999. Um, and as I think John, you mentioned, this is the last playground to be renovated. So, coming around on how expensive playgrounds are. Um, but still some open questions on the conservation commission specifically.

Great. Thanks, Michelle. Mia. Okay. Maria's like losing her voice. Um, I have a couple things if you give me one second. Oh my god. I'm sorry. Okay. Anyone want to tell? Okay.

Um I went to the planning board last night and this was I don't know what number meeting but it's been about a year. There was a Campanelli who owns Beaverbrook over by the old Cisco property looking for their master plan to be able to bring in basically are looking to get a master plan approval so they can start constructing buildings and build out the property. Um and shockingly or not, it was continued to January 12th, 2026. So that would make it almost a full year in the planning phase. They have spent the last three meetings with Campanelli um talking about last night one of the planning board members wanted to know if they were going to fix up the basketball court and the fence cuz someone complained the fence was down um which isn't really this is one of the reasons we I think we're stalled on new growth right because we have these people in these planning board um these these these meetings for the this site plan approval that are taking Last week the guy was there was 8 months from Massav. Um, and then once the the plan gets approved, there's a 120day appeal process. So, you know, you can't start construction tomorrow even if your plan gets approved. So, this is the type of thing I think there was select board members on the meeting last night as well. um that will be discussed tomorrow night at BLF is new growth and everyone's kind of responsibility um towards making sure that we're kind of staying steady and doing what we can to bring in revenue by redeveloping um these properties that are in front of them. Um they also discussed the master plan changes. Tony, they didn't mention

our change. It was a very quick um conversation. I don't know if they took all the changes and they like are going to vote on it down the line. It was just a joint meeting with the select board. Um and they're saying that the plan expires in 2030. Normally it takes two years to put a plan together. So, they're already talking about getting the money to go back out to get the mass um MS the planning massive planning association to come and help us do a master plan that would go out 15 years from 2030. Um so that was that. The housing board is meeting tonight. I talked briefly with with Joe today because I had some kind of senior moment and panic that he was actually the housing board rep and not me. Um, but they're meeting tonight and they're talking about a housing plan, production plan. Um, that's going to cost approximately $75,000. Um, and they're talking about funding tonight. And there's four options. Two of which is grant funding. Um, that that reduces that number from 75 down to either zero or 15,000, but delays the plan for for a year. The other two options are some grant funding and the rest coming out of the trust, the housing board trust. They do have a trust fund. Um, and that is either 35,000 or 75,000. So, um, depending on when we end, they may try to bop on there. It's not our purview per se, but if they run out of money in the trust, then we're going to have to start funding the affordable housing because we have to, you know, we have a board, we have a commission, and we're going to have to start making sure that that affordable housing, um, we've been lucky over the years because we have this trust money that we've used. Um, and then that also leads into them

selling Stow Road because they need that money. they only have somewhere between I couldn't get an accurate number $140 to $180,000 in the trust. So, um I suggested to to the chair tonight, I emailed him and said grants and a year delay with you know grants with very little cost is much better than using half your trust fund when you have all these other programs because then you know who's going to pick up the rental programs? They have a rental program. They have a hope program which helps families that own the affordable housings maintain them through the years so that everybody, you know, can be maintained, the houses can be maintained. Um, and that would quickly run through the trust money. So that was as much as I have in that update. Um, with respect to the schools, um, Kristen is going tomorrow to that hearing for the deesca everyone today. Tony, are you going to that?

No, we'll be going to

Okay. Um, she's going to that tomorrow. And for I I my understanding and you can I don't know, Liz, if you heard this too, but apparently option 5V1, which turns Blanchard into a preschool, um, has been taken off the table and voted unanimously to take that option off the table. So, we will be keeping Apparently Liz did not hear this. Um, I did ask four people who texted me like this was the official vote and they said yes and you can report out to FINCOM. So that's so I don't know what other options are on the table but that particular option which I think was the biggest concern to Boxboro parents and Boxboro community is now off the table. Um, and that's all

great. Thank you. Um so my two were just a select board which we've already discussed the uh tax hearing and the budget discussion and then I went to personnel board and and I presented them with the budget strategy and and the and the budget options and uh obviously quite concerned about that in terms ter terms of personnel planning but uh they have an update on that now. So that is all we have I think. Anything else from anybody? Then I'll take a motion to adjurnn. Second. Okay. Okay. So roll call to adjourn. Uh so Maria

Neil and I. Um Joe I. John I. Michelle Ryan I and Newton I. So I declare the meeting officially adjourned. Thank you all. Thank