Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

We are all set. Okay. Good evening. The August 2025 meeting of the zoning board of appeals for the city of Bowling Green is now in session. Will the secretary please call the role? Uh Jerry Anderson, present. Jeff Crawford, present. Tim Emer, present. Julie Broadwell, here. Rod Noble, present. Whatever. David Fleger. Jay Sachman. All right, we have a quorum present. The first order of business is to approve the minutes from the June 2025 meeting that were previously circulated. Is there a motion for approval? I motion to approve the minutes. Second. I would second that.

It's been moved and seconded that the minutes of the June 2025 meeting be approved. All those in favor say I. I. Opposed.

Okay. First of all, let me welcome you and uh say that we understand that when somebody tries to tell you what you can do with your property, visa v the city of Bowling Green, sometimes it's hard to understand. And with that in mind, I want you to just please um feel at ease tonight. We're your fellow citizens. We're here volunteering our time. We want to help you out. We want you to be able to do what you want to do with your property and enjoy your rights as property owners. There are a couple things you'll need to do to help us get to that point, but uh that's our goal. So, just just so everybody understands that um our our zoning code was updated recently and it does provide a process that allows for projects that don't strictly conform to the zoning code uh to go forward. And that's through the process of granting a variance. And as I said, in order for us to to be able to grant you that variance, it's up to you to to help us out and show us a couple things that meet the criteria in the zoning code. And first and most importantly is that you give us credible evidence that demonstrates that the strict enforcement of the code would cause you a practical difficulty uh if you if we were to require that code to be enforced strictly. And um secondly, as you offer us your testimony tonight, please keep in mind those seven criteria that were in the packet with your application for the variance. Um, those are the things that you need to address to help us find that you will experience that practical difficulty. And I can't emphasize the importance of that enough. It's you really need to do that for to give us the ability to grant you the variance. So, as we proceed, I'll I'll read the request in the order that they're shown on the agenda. Uh, the planning director will give an overview of the situation and describe the applicable sections of the zoning code. You will then be be invited to present your case and to state with practical with uh credible evidence the practical difficulty that we just discussed that you would face with the strict enforcement of the code. Uh anyone else

who is here who would like to testify either on your behalf or against what you want to do will then be allowed to comment. Um at that point the public comment portion of the hearing will be closed and the board will discuss the case amongst ourselves. We may have questions for you as we go along. Um and then at the end we will either approve your request, deny it or approve it with conditions. Any appeals of our decision you can make to the uh Wood County Court of Common please. Uh this is a quasi judicial proceeding. Uh it is being recorded. if it ever becomes necessary, a court reporter would make a transcript of of the verbatim uh testimony that's given. So, if you haven't already, please sign in at the back of the room. And uh at this time, if you plan to or you think you might want to give testimony in any of the matters before us, um please raise your right hand. And you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help you God.

I do. Okay. Very well. Thank you. Okay. Um, two cases on tonight. The first one is a variance request from Matthew Grimes, 707 North Main Street, has requested a variance to allow the construction of a 30 footx 24 ft addition. It's an attached garage which would encroach 14 ft into the required 20 foot rear yard setback to the west. This property is zoned PR pedestrian residential. Um, and we'll now ask Director Sailor to give us the the uh scoop on this one.

Thank you. So, under the zoning code, article 2, district and zone regulations section 150.34, this property is zoned pedestrian residential district, which is um basically the long way to say the PR. Um, and the tent of the pedestrian residential district promotes walkable neighborhoods with residential uses and some associated businesses. Residents of this district should be able to walk quickly, safely, and peaceibly peacefully to nearby businesses. This intent is achieved through closeness between structures that encourage economical use of land and limits walking distances between neighborhood commercial spaces and adjacent residential streets. The lot, building, and design standards are on the table on the next slide, which is table 11 for the PR. Um, in this circumstance, they are asking for a variance for the minimum rear yard setback of 20 ft. Here's an aerial view of the property. As you can see, it is a corner lot um on the corner of North Main Street and West Reed Avenue. There are three parcels. This home is um pretty old, or dare I say historic. I'm not sure it was built, but I say that because we did not have a file on the property besides a couple recent permits from when they purchased the house. So, otherwise, there really was no um other information or past variances to share with the zoning board of appeals. Using pictometry, here is a view of the house. This would be the view if you were standing on a West Reed looking at the side of the property. And then here is looking at the rear of the property where you can see the existing garage attached to the house. And then here is another view of the side of the property. And then here's a view of the front of the house from North Main Street. Here's a picture of the front of the home from North Main Street. Here's looking a little bit um to the side of the home where you can see that um garage that juts out a bit past the house. So you can get another view of that. Here's another view from more of

the corner of Maine and Reed looking at the house. This would be a view um from West Reed looking onto North Main Street. Here's a view of the rear of the home. A little bit closer up view looking at the existing driveway and house. And there's also a small shed in the back that was indicated on the site plan would be removed if this project was approved. Another view of the house. This would be from West Reed looking a little more west at the um neighboring properties. And again, that shed is in the picture. Here's a sketch that was um part of your packet showing the proposed addition, which again is um for a garage, but it's an addition because it's um attached to the home. We did not receive any written or verbal correspondence from any of the adjoining property owners. An advertisement was placed in the newspaper of general circulation as required. A site notice was placed at the site. The other notices required by the Ministry of Code were posted in the proper time and location. A letter was mailed first class mail to the tax mailing address of the owner and adjoining property owners. Therefore, all the procedural requirements for the hearing have been met.

Thank you. Mr. Mrs. Grimes, I assume, if you would step to the podium and please um speak clearly and into the microphone for us as you testify and state your name and your address for the record, please. Okay, I'm going to go first. Um I'm Matthew Grimes. We live at 707 North Main, right down the street about four blocks away. Um I prepared some items to talk through, so we moved in. Go ahead. State your address as well, please, for the record. The address it's 707 North Main Street. I'm sorry. I missed that. No, it's just right on the It's right on the street. You confirm for me that you swore your oath to tell the truth. Yes. Go ahead and Okay.

Tell us what's going on. And as I said, pay particular attention to that practical difficulty issue. Great. Okay. Thanks.

Yep. No problem. Um, so first off, thanks for the pictures because I think it I had some pictures here, but those are much better than what we would have prepared. So, and I would just say the fence, the driveway, the new roof that we put on after we bought the house that we didn't expect to put on and we put a lot of money into this house. We're proud of it. Um although it's a large historic home, there are some things uh mainly for us that cause difficulties. We moved into this, like I said, 5 years ago and probably plan to be in there for the next 15 to 20 years. We'll retire. We'll live there for a few years and then figure out, you know, what we're going to do. I'd say in roughly 8 to 11 years we'll retire and we'll remain there for I think 20 years, 25 years. We'll see what what comes of it. But um although like I said, it's a big house. There is limited storage. We have storage below parts of the house which is a basement and it's a dirt floor and the people that remodeled it put Visqueen down there. So anything we store down there, one, it's hard to get to. There's not a lot of access to it and it it's not that damp, but you could get mold, uh, moisture, things that would damage anything that we put down there. There's storage in the attic as you can I think that picture kind of shows it. Um, there is an attic. It's it's pretty big and it's pretty cool. It's pretty old. Again, it's hard to get to. So, to store anything, it's hard to put anything there. So, we're really building the garage

for access for us to store things and to store our cars. There is there is that garage there, but it's kind of a sharp turn to get in there and it's probably about a onecar garage. We're going to use part of the access to park and then the rest for storage. So, that's that's mainly the biggest thing is we wanted some more room and we wanted it we wanted it for storage. Um, I have some other items here just to kind of plead our case. So, like I said, what's been mentioned here, it's it's a historic home. I don't think it's registered or anything like that, but I think it was built in 1897. We bought it in 2019. Um, people that bought it before us a few years remodeled it. I think it was in disrepair. They repaired it. We made improvements to it. Um, I think people in the neighborhood notice that we decorate. We decorate for Easter. We decorate for Halloween. We decorate for Thanksgiving. We decorate for Christmas. Every Halloween, people stop by and tell us, "Hey, we love your house. We come by." People stop us on the street and tell us that. So, a lot of that storage would be for these large outdoor items that are hard to store in the basement or up in the attic. Um, and then that that's mainly the big parts of that. Um, I would also Go ahead.

Okay.

All right. I would also say if you pull up the picture of the overhead view of the of our house, there's really alleys on either side of our uh street. So like the 600 block and the 800 block, there's not one on our block. So basically, and it's it's a little offset, but our driveway would be to the north of where the alley is. And we repaved that for one, made it better, but um so it it's it's there. And the the houses that are on our same block is what I was trying to get to is the house that's two doors down at the corner of Cromwell and Maine. They've got a house with an attached garage that's probably 6 ft closer to Main Street than us. And then their garage extends 10 ft farther towards the west than us. So then they also have shrubs from the garage to the adjoining property. So, if it's a pedestrian

area, there's no way for anyone to walk through it anyways. You have to walk on the large uh sidewalk that's there that provides more than enough, you know, room for people to walk to and from other houses or businesses. And that um that picture also shows a pool that was there in between our houses, 715 North Main Street. I don't know if they got approval because they've taken it down now and they've moved, but they put a pool up there. So really people don't walk through that area to begin with. I don't know if people would know that it was, you know, somewhere to walk through um at that point. And then I guess the other thing would be um everything we've done has added value to our house. We think this would add value to our house and to the neighborhood. And also it would still leave six feet for people to walk on the west side of our house if they wanted to. Okay,

I think I fit all my points I wanted to hit. Okay, Mrs. Graves, did you have anything to add before we um I was just saying if you state your name and address for the record? Jennifer Grimes. I live at 707 North Main Street, Bowling Green, Ohio. You can confirm confirm for me that you swore your oath to tell the truth. Okay. Thank you. Yes.

Yep. Um I was just uh pointing about too about the people walking through. There would be on the garage between our next door neighbors and ours to walk through if they had to walk through. And just with the um storage again, the basement is mild dewy and it is a uh uh what do you call it? Dirt floor. And then we would have um area for us to park our cars for coverage for our cars. Covered it. Yeah. think that we are. Okay, that we're going.

Anyone else scared to offer any testimony in this matter? All right, we'll close the public comment portion of this and open it up for questions from the board. Matthew, Jennifer, um I walked by your property. Thank you for what you've done with the house or what somebody did with the house. Somebody flipped it, but you know what? A successful flip still needs a buyer. So, thank you for buying the historic home. Uh, a couple of things. That shed, you're under oath. The shed's gone. Yes. Yeah. The shed's going to go

gone. All right. Uh, the h the building that you put up out there, uh, the 30 by 24, the 30 is north and south. I'm trying to figure this out from the drawing here, but you said it wasn't to scale. The deeper area is the east west, right? The deeper area is the east west, right? So, it would go to the west, right? Your back lot line there that you're going to be within six feet of, right? What is directly to the west of that lot line? So, there's a fence, not my fence, in disrepair. Is it the neighbor's fence that faces Rick? If you looked at all the Yeah, if you look at the pictures. And then there's also a shed that's in disrepair and a bunch of overgrown shrubs that's on their property. That's on their property, right? Okay. Knowing that, do they use their backyard?

No. No, they only cut their grass. Okay. What do you use the existing garage for? It's really just for storage. and we've kind of extended our living space there. Right. Okay. Um you knew about storage and parking and all that stuff when you bought the house. Oh yeah. To be fair. Okay. Sure. Yeah. Um the other thing is in your do you have a design for your garage? Is there any effort to make your garage even appear to fit in with the age of the home architecturally or otherwise or is this is going to be people going to walk out and see a standard looks like another garage? Um

I would say it'll be a standard another garage. So, we are going to we are going to have the uh the the roof meet the line of the house and it's going to be the same color everything else too. So, it's it it should look to match. To say it's going to be a house that would be, you know, a garage that meets an 1897 design, I would say no. But, I would say it's a cool home. Like I said, it it there's a lot there, but you'd be surprised. You'd be surprised how divided it is inside and how much there's really not as much room as you think. And then that garage that's existing.

I thought it was bigger than it was, but I'd say it's like 24 by 20, maybe 24 by 20. It's like a square, but it was built in the 60s. They when I was moving stuff around, I see where they poured the slabs for the concrete. Yeah. And it's not designed to match the the the 1897 design of the house either. So, we would just be extending that extension. Yeah. And through the front of the house, looking back, you would not see the garage that is placed on, it's going to be the current garage or the new garage going on right on top of the concrete that's already there. Yes. Yeah. And so, the current garage technically encroaches already into the setback.

I would say yes. I I was kind of surprised where the property line was. So to the to the north, I think we're about as far north as we can go. Mhm. And then we're just extending it to the south, you know, with within that zone. But again, I think the way that it at least the way that I read it is our property because where the porch is, it's 20 ft away from the street. The property needs to be the adjoined property. Anything we add on needs to be 20 ft from the west, which like I kind of pointed tried to point out there, the other houses next to us are closer to North Main Street and they extend further than we do. We're just I guess we're just asking to extend further out, but we'd still have 20 ft or so in the front of our property.

When I drove by, it looks like that shed is right up to your neighbors. Mhm. And that's how far the garage is going to go. like how did you get or who put the shed there that's so close to the other person's property. I was confused by that. So So the only records of probably anything we put the fence and so we had to get a permit and then I had to get a permit to get the shed or we had to get a permit to get the shed. So the city gave us the permit and I think it's supposed to be 5t away from there and I think it's it's pretty close to that, right? So yeah. Yeah. You're able to walk between our shed and their that shed is just a metal shed. There's no foundation to it. It can just be taken apart and taken down, picked up in a hole and moved. But your your new garage would go up to past where that shed is now.

No, that's not correct. It would it would be six feet from the property. So, you think the shed is 5T now? So, it' be six feet. Okay. So, it'd be further it'd be further east than where the shed is. So, the west end of the property is this way. The the shed the garage would be further west. And the way you're going to build the garage is so that you would drive up the driveway. You'd drive straight into your garage. Okay. So you're Yeah, but the it would be farther from their property line because that shed we got permission from the city to put that there and told them right where we were putting it. And I don't think that's five feet from their property line.

Yeah. Yeah. I was surprised that the shed was so close and we had to get them to come look at it and approve it. So, yeah. So, the encroachment is on the encroaches to the Reed side, not the right to the west. The encroachments to the house that's Reed to the back. Yeah. To the west. Okay. Got it. I think it will leave like six to seven feet between our house and the house on Reed Street. That's our neighbor. I don't I don't know that address. Have you had any communication at all, verbal or written with your neighbors to the west?

I have not. Um we they don't really come out much and we we do talk to them. You know, we wave high. We say that things recently. We've had a couple of uh couple of deers that have been out there and we've talked about that like it's kind of funny that they're sitting there eating the the shrubs and they kind of go along the property line and no long street. What's that? Wrong board. Wrong board. Right. So, we we do talk to them about that, but I didn't I didn't walk over to them and say, "Hey, we're planning on building this. Are you okay with that?" But we knew letters were going out to them. They didn't say anything to you.

No. And the next door neighbors that are on the opposite side own the gas station down here, and they haven't said anything to us either, and we talk to them quite often, right, when they walk by. I I would say the only neighbor that we really know well is Michelle who I think is a tenant of the property across the street on Reed and we haven't talked to her but again our our neighbors they're not outside as much as us. They're not there. We don't it's not like we you know have cookouts or anything together. We we kind of see them in passing away.

Is there any thought of tearing down the existing garage so that the garage would be closer to the house? I mean, I guess I can't picture it. So, you'd have a So, what would happen with that garage door that's on there now? Because you'd be building

it. It would stay there and it would just be a joining of the property. It So, you'd basically open it up and the way the way it's really designed is so it's 30 ft wide. The first like 14 ft would be just the roof and the back door, back wall. Also, you kind of drive into it and then the other part would be storage for other things. So, the 16 ft would be there and I and this and it would connect with the roof. Yeah, it would connect with the roof line and just be there. I guess we hadn't thought about it, but we just envisioned, hey, let's just extend it. Yeah, it would. And it's kind of it's kind of coming to evolution. When we moved in there,

we have three daughters. We were there for about four months. COVID hit. Two of them were living with us. They're all they're all out of college now. Um, but when CO hit, they were all there. So, we had a lot of people in a small space, right? So, it's kind of evolved and we just made the garage like a a storage area more than an actual garage. Um, it's kind of stayed that way and then we're like, hey, we need some more space because we move all the stuff up and down up the stairs and down the stairs around these tight corners and we just wanted more storage and then a place to park the cars. So, we hadn't thought about that, but we like the way it's situated now. We're just looking to add on rather than tear down and add on.

You have a contractor who's going to do this work for you? We do. It's USA Pole Barnes. We actually put the uh put in for the building permit and the zoning permit at the same time. And the building permit is just waiting on they've approved all of our designs. We've given everything to them. They've approved what we want to do. They've approved the footings for the garage. They're just waiting on the zoning permit or approval. Can you talk to me just a little bit more about the design and what it's going to look like? Is the siding going to match the siding that's on the house as well as be the same color? I would say the color is going to match. It will be like a pullb barn type of feature. It's going to be metal.

It's going to be metal. Yeah. Yeah. any windows in the in the uh we weren't planning on Yeah, we weren't really planning on having any windows. So, the the the north facing would be a a wall, the west facing would be a wall, a partial wall on the south side, and then a divider wall in between with a door that's opening. We didn't plan on putting a door or windows on the back side. So, if you would envision it kind of be an open space like a a place to park your cars or what's the word I'm looking for? Carport.

The carport kind of area and then a then a garage area. Garage/ storage area. Maybe I missed this. The carport enclosed or open? The carport's open with I guess the open side would be facing Reed Street. So you would just drive into So if you're if you're looking at this picture right here, we would just extend the roof line down 30 feet, drop a wall, the west side would be 16 ft of storage and in between would be like a covered area where you drive in. Both our cars would fit. Yeah, both our cars would fit.

Right now we park them out in the weather, so we just figured we'd leave an open space for the cars. Any other questions? Any final thoughts, Julie? If it's supposed to be 20 ft from the property line and it's going to be six, I'm I'm not comfortable with that. And even if your neighbors don't have nice yards and things, that's that's really not a consideration for me. I mean, I get what you're saying. Your neighbor has a beat up fence and shrubbery and things like that, but it just sounds like a huge massive thing to go there, and I I do get about storage. Um, but I think that's I mean, that's why we have a zoning. I just think it's taking up too much space. I guess if I'm allowed to, my counterpoint to that would be is I can stand in my driveway and I can look and see nothing but rows of houses to the south that are still in that area and look north and see nothing but houses and other things that are in that same area. So me adding a garage would just be house house. Right now it's just house house driveway houses. Yeah,

I appreciate your observation on that, but we, you know, we don't go by precedent and as I mentioned in the opening, we are working under a new zoning code. My concern is the practical difficulty in the seven criteria. I keep a little worksheet myself with the seven criteria. All of them don't apply, but in this in this case, um, is the variance substantial? That may be one of them that you recall is in the in the packet. And in my estimation, it is it's quite a considerable variance percentage-wise uh from from off of 20 feet. Um and uh the other thing will the essential character of the neighborhood be substantially altered? And my concern there is that you point out that it is a a historical home, at least historically significant. And I feel like that character will definitely be altered with a a poleb barn structure. Um, frankly, it's not up to us to tell you what to build it out of, but I'd be a lot more comfortable if uh not only the color matched, but the sighting on the house matched and maybe a window or two in there to match the windows in the home to make it look like it fits in a little bit better. And then finally, the last one, would granting the variance result in the spirit and intent of the requirement being observed? And again, I have to say that no, I don't think so because of the extent of the variance and the the impact that I feel like it would have on the on the adjoining neighborhoods. That those are my comments.

Uh for me, I think uh there's no what the variant they're asking for is for the rear yard. if if you can show me where the rear yard is on this, you know.

So, if it was just by uh if this was considered a sideyard, we wouldn't even, you know, need a variance. So, to me, it's not that uh big of an ask. Now, setbacks are important because they reduce the risk of a catastrophic fire and I don't think I mean it's already very close so I don't think it would really enhance the risk of a fire and visually like from Main Street I think it would look pretty much the same.

Yeah, you wouldn't see it. and and from the other street it it would be tucked back in there with the building line of of Reed Street. So for me, this doesn't seem like that significant of a variance. I I agree with Tim. Right now he can park he can park cars right there. They're just not in a garage and it's already packed in tight there. No, I I agree with you. I don't think it's that I don't think it changes the character. And Jerry, any final thoughts? Yeah. Um I love your house, by the way. Had my eyes on it at one time.

I remember when the house was empty, was an eyesore and you just drove past and said that I just feel bad. Yeah. Because you could see what could be done and somebody got that vision and somebody did something. So as I looked at this, when I was out there, it's like that where they're going to be that back line. That's all I'm looking at cuz that's all the variance is is back there, right? You're getting close. You get six feet away. What's back there? And I didn't see that it would inter it's not going to interfere with anybody's view. It's not going to interfere. I wanted to know that's why I wanted to know what's ex right directly behind you. And then you tossed in pole barn. Wow. And that's

I mean it's going to match the house. It's going to be the same color. If you want us to put a window on the front or a window on the back, if that makes it more appealing to Bowling Green, then we can do that. It's going to be the same. It's going to be the same. There's not going to be It's not going to be in front of the garage. It's going to be the same line of the roof of the garage. That's our You're not parking inside, though, are you? Yes. You're parking under a It'd be like a carport. In between like a carport. Yeah. And a garage. Okay.

But it's going to be the same black roof that's already there. I'd hate to set a kind of a precedent of us determining maybe I like a pole barn and you like I'm looking at the I'm looking at the house. I'm looking I could see if it was from the front of the house and you would see it then yes, but nobody's going to see it except from the side of the house. So I don't think that that takes away from that beautiful house. And part of it is enclosed where you would be storing your stuff. Yes, there'll be storage, two cars, connect.

By the way, do you get your kids home to help put up all those decorations? You You would think so, but no, that doesn't every once in a while, right? Okay. Reminder, we can either approve, deny, or approve with conditions. So, if there's no further final thoughts, is there a motion for the disposition of this request? I would move that we approve the uh the request as presented. I'd second the motion.

All right. It's been moved by Mr. Crawford, seconded by Tim, uh that the request be approved as submitted. Correct. Okay. Any further discussion. Mr. Secretary, if you call the role, please. Uh Rod Noble, no. Tim Emer, yes. Julie Broadwell, no. Jerry Anderson, no. Jeff Crawford, yes. Okay. I'm afraid your request was not approved. Uh, as a reminder, if you

Mr. Chairman, could we then consider um approval as amended? Could we approve? Could we consider an amendment to the It would have to come from you guys. It's your ask. I'm That's pretty irregular. I don't Never been Facebook before I think. Okay. You said we could approve disapprove or approve with conditions. I was asked yes or no on that. Nobody asked me about conditions that I'm just asking about that Rod is to is there a way to do that? The motion was to approve it as it was submitted down. So, okay. Heather, am I missing something? Can someone else make a motion to approve it with conditions? Yes.

I don't believe so, but I'm not the city attorney. I know it's normally what happens is when the motion's made, if it's if the motion is not approved, then your remedy is to appeal to the court of common, please. Um I I don't think we can I don't think we can change that. I suppose I don't think everyone on the board understood that when you made the motion. Yeah, you just said to approve as I don't I don't think Mr. Anderson knew what the approval process was. Well, I think he I was not going to approve as submitted. So, I'm I'm comfortable with that. But he asked after the after the proceeding after the said approval, disapproval, or approved with conditions.

Can we now do it? And you can approve with conditions. I'm just asking if that was an option. I'm observing he's new to the board. I don't think he understood your own rules. The the motion should have been to approve it with a condition. So, I'm going to say that, you know, we're we voted on the motion and it wasn't approved. And then is that not something we can absolutely can't do? Correct. But what's normally happened is once you've already voted on a motion, um it could be requested again, but it would have to be a little different. So, maybe they show it five feet um smaller or they add a couple windows, so they'd have to come back with a different request.

Okay. I I guess what what you're saying I I said on boards a couple of them but you didn't offer that up as a thing. You just said as approval. So do you do you get to make do the approval? Do you you know there's no point arguing. I said in the opening that we can either approve, disapprove or approve with conditions. All I did was reiterate that right before. I guess I guess I didn't understand that and I don't think everyone on your board understood that. I did. And I think I think it was you can do one of the three, not one and not the other. The motion uh was it was motioned to approve as submitted

as written. It went through. We voted. It didn't pass. You can resubmit, but it's closed tonight. Is that where we're at? Yeah. Yes. I got I guess just for a point of clarity on my on my point. So, as written, as we put in, it's denied. Can you hold for one second? I think we may have some clarification. And I Okay. Sorry.

We apologize. We're just This is an unusual procedural thing and we're just talking Um, I've been here 17 years and we've never done it that way. We've, you know, you vote on the motion, you've made a decision. Um,

that's all I can say. Okay. Nervous.

Okay. So, what we're clarifying over here is that with council, and I think this is Mr. Anderson's question, is that you've had a motion, it's been voted down. Can you make a second motion with conditions? So, it would be a different motion. Council does use that procedure, which would lead us to believe that the city attorney, you know, would rule that that is valid. We apologize that he's not here and we don't have that answer. Um we certainly understand this is an unusual um progression of things here, but that would be our advice that if you're willing to accept a second motion, but that's up to the board.

I feel like that's being citizen friendly. These folks are here. I'm trying to get your thing built, but there are concerns and they're legitimate concerns. That's where we're at.

All right. Well, I I will go ahead and make the decision then that if someone cares to make a motion that uh amends the request in some way that's satisfactory to that individual that you know we'll go ahead and entertain that. Is there such a motion? I would move that we consider approval of a variance to build a structure uh that does not go as close to the backyard as we are right now. The the lot line I think it should be something God I wish it were I mean I built a p I built a pole barn in Middleton Township but it was sighted. It matched the house. It wasn't metal. You guys are taking a historic house and I'm trying to find out. I'm not trying to design the thing for you, but do you see the the the hangup we're having with with does it have windows? Does it have doors? Can't the cars be inside? It's a kind of alluded. I think I think you're going to be better off

coming back next week resubmitting and I guess just for a point of of clarity, right? We we've gone through the process of getting a bid, going through the whole thing and then putting in an appeal. We couldn't come last month because we were unavailable at the time of your hearing. But basically, we instead of going to court over this variance, we could put in a second variance, which would probably be getting other proposals to build a house that that matched or build a garage that matched the thing and and recessed it, I guess, closer to the house, right? So, it wasn't so close to the property line. Is that what you're saying? Submitted other variants, amended, and come back.

I think you heard our concerns. Mhm. Um, and what I would suggest is that you refile, address those concerns, and we'll consider it next month. And I'm I'm sorry. I I sympathize with where you are, but, you know, I think it was it was clear enough that we can either approve, disapprove, or approve with conditions that was stated at least twice. The motion was made to approve it as it was submitted, and that motion was voted down.

I thank you. if you come can come back. I'm not going to speak for anybody. I I told you what my concerns are. Um we may not have we're minus one member tonight. I don't have any idea how that person would have looked at it. We may be minus two of these people next time. I don't know. But um I I asked for an amended motion. I didn't get one. So, I think we're back to where we started that uh the original motion was was voted down and and your best course is either to appeal to the court of common please or come back next month with a an altered request. Okay, understood. Thank you for your time. Thank you guys.

Y Okay, second case. Um, and I know from experience you're not Ally,

and I apologize, but I don't remember your name. Uh, but Quick Trip has requested the following variances to allow for the construction of the following signage at 120 Freeway Court zoned IC Interstate Commercial District. One uh one 229 square foot 80 foot tall pylon sign, which is not a permitted sign type in section 150.84 84 sign regulations table and would exceed the 112 square ft maximum size allowed. One 108 ft 22t tall pylon sign which is a truck scale sign which is not a permitted sign type in section 150.84 sign regulations table. One4 ft wall sign which would exceed the 112 square ft maximum size allowed. One 14 square f foot wayfinding sign which would exceed the maximum three size of three square ft and the maximum height of 3 feet. One 38 ft 6'8 and 1/2 in tall monument sign. Two canopy signs 20 ft each. Two wall signs 20 square ft each which are in compliance with the sign regulations. However, all signs in total would exceed the maximum number of three signs allowed per business by six signs for a total of nine signs and would exceed the 336 ft maximum total sum of all signs by 317 square ft. Total sum of 653 square ft. And if you all got that, God bless you. Um Heather,

so under article 4, generally applicable standards, section 150.82 is the sign regulations and there's a sign regulation table that I'll show you later. Under P, we define a wayfinding sign as a a permit is not actually required. However, no wayfinding sign may have a sign height that exceeds 3 feet or exceeds three square feet in size. Under the table which is labeled as section 150.84 table 28. This property is zoned interstate commerce IC. Under the next category are sign types permitted. So you can have an awning or canopy sign, monument sign, projecting sign, real estate sign, sandwich board sign, temporary sign, wall sign, and wayfinding sign. Um so you cannot have a pylon sign under sign types. It's not an allowable or permitted sign under the sign regulations. Um, also the maximum number of signs per business is three. Unless you're a um, multi-tenant building, it would be a maximum of two. Um, under the sign area per individual sign, you're allowed to have a maximum size sign of 120 square ft. And then the total sign area of all the signs together can be a maximum of 336 square ft. Um, additionally, a wayfinding sign is normally not calculated as part of that maximum of three signs. However, um for the variance, we went ahead and added it just because it technically, you know, is much larger than a wayfinding sign anyways. So, we thought it would be safer to ask for that and put it as part of the request. Um so, here's an aerial view of the property and you'll see there it's two parcels and it fronts um East Worster, South Umbbridge Road, Freeway Court, and Expressway Drive. Using pictometry, here is a view of the property. This would be facing north. So you'll have the Meyer gas station across the street and then there's a hotel

there to the east. Another view of the property. Here's a view from East Worster. And then here's a view. This would be facing west. Here's a picture of the property. This would be um the portion if you would be standing on Freeway Court. Another view from Freeway Court. This would be facing west. Another view from Freeway Court. This would be facing more southwest. Um, this is a view from East Worster Street of the property. Another view from East Worooster and that would be Dunbridge adjacent to the property. This would be a view of the property from Dunbridge. This is directly at the intersection of Dunbridge and East Worster. Here's another view from Dunbridge. This would be facing more southeast. And then this is a view if you were standing on Expressway Drive facing north. So to the left of the screen would be Dunbridge. Another view facing north from Expressway Drive. And then part of your packet was um the site plan. And um we tried to break it down a little bit so you could follow all the different signs, but basically the proposal would be the two canopy signs saying the QT. Um and then there's a scale sign that's 97 square ft proposed. And then there would be signage on the building which would be three wall signs. Um and then again there's the directional sign or we call it a wayfinding sign in the zoning code. um that's proposed there that would help direct trucks to the right portion of the property. And then proposed is the pylon sign which would be 229 square feet. And then the pylon would include a digital reader sign showing the price.

So here's a view of the sign on the canopy. These would be 20 square ft. As mentioned before, two of those. Um, there's a little bit closer view of the dimensions of the sign. Here is the scale sign. That would be a little over 22 feet tall and um 108 square ft. These are just closer up views of things on the scale sign. So, the entry and exit um really helping with directions. Um the scale sign also has um a smaller square sign that juts out um from the scale that has a speaker in it. So it's a little more functional than just you probably honestly can't read it. Um just want to make sure you knew what everything was on the sign. Um this is the main I would call it the main wall sign that states quick trip. And then this shows the main wall sign with the two um other wall signs there on the building. Another more detailed view here again is a more detailed view of the wayfinding sign for trucks which would be approximately 14 square ft and 5t tall. And then here is a proposed pylon at um 40t tall I believe that says. And then um 229 square ft. And then here's the sign with the digital reader board. So I assume they'd have it, you know, open soon and then once open they'd want to use the price points. And here's a closer view of the top of the pylon sign. And then a closer view showing the dimensions of the price signs. So we did not receive any uh written or ver verbal correspondence. You'll probably recall you saw this project I think maybe about a month ago was it

June and for other variants. So this is just concentrated of course upon the signage. An advertisement was placed in the newspaper of general circulation is required. A site notice was placed at the site. The other notices required by the Ministry of Code were posted in the proper time and location. A letter was mailed first class mail to the tax mailing address of the owner and adjoining property owners. Therefore, all the procedural requirements for the hearing have been met. Okay. Thank you. Let's come to the microphone to state your name and your address for the record. My name is Wes Bler, 209 West Stone Avenue, Greenville, South Carolina. Can you confirm for me that you swore your oath to tell the truth? Yes, sir. Thank you. Tell us what's going on with the signs. Can I pass these out to y'all? Sure. What was your first name? Wes.

Wes. Thank you. And I'm sorry I didn't get your last name. The paper's ruffling. Piler Piler. You have a copy of this for the city, too. Thank you. Yes. [Applause] Good to see you again, young man.

Thank you. [Applause] Okay. Good evening. It's uh great to be back here in Bowling Green. Uh thank you for taking the time to listen to Quick Trips variance request for signs. Um, I will go through Heather went through each I was going to go through the sign plan and kind of go through each one, but Heather did a great job with that. Um, so if if it's okay with you, I'll go straight to the variance criteria. Um, and then we can I'll refer you to the comparison chart midway through here. Uh, number one, whether the property in question will yield a reasonable return or whether there can be any beneficial use of the property without the variance. QT wants to make sure there they are not at a competitive disadvantage with other similar uses in the area and would like the same opportunity as they have when it comes to signage and brand visibility. Whether the variance is substantial, it is significant from the written code, but not what is currently built along Worster. it would not create a noticeable or significant difference. Number three, whether the essential character of the neighborhood would be substantially altered or whether the adjoining properties would suffer a substantial detriment as a result of the variance. It would not. The fuel station across from Worster has two pylon signs, one along Worster and one on Dunbridge. The fuel station further east on Worster

across I75 has two pylon signs. QT is seeking only one pylon sign. As you can see from the comparison chart, QT is within only 103 square feet from its competitor. So, it's very comparable. If you exclude the interior truck scale sign, which we feel should not be included as it's not viewed from the rideway, QT has five square feet less than the fuel station across I75. We feel the truck scale sign is moreformational for the truckers once they are already in the parking lot. Number four, whether the variance would adversely affect the delivery of governmental services. No. Number five, whether the property owner purchased the property with knowledge of the zoning restriction. Yes, QT was aware of the signage requirements at the time of purchase. However, the request for additional number and square feet of sign stem from a commitment to customer safety. Effective signage reduces potential frustration and makes it easier for the customers to make a safe turning movement. Uh this is especially crucial in complex locations like large commercial areas where navigation can be challenging. Signs serve as a clear guide ensuring customers arrive safely and contribute to a positive overall experience. QT also wants to provide Bowling Green a modern, consistent, and visually cohesive development that aligns with QuickTrip's national design standards. The proposed signs reflect the company's uniform architectural style which emphasize clean lines and brush aluminum finishes that increase visibility and brand identity without appearing bulky or intrusive. Number six, whether the property's owner predicament feasibly can be obiated through some method other than varants. No. And number seven, uh whether the spirit and intent behind the zoning requirement would be observed and substantial justice done by granting the variance. uh substantial justice would be done based off the precedent of existing commercial businesses along Worster. Um so the other sheets in that

packet that I provided um one was the comparison I jotted down some notes when I was here two months ago with the competitor down the street and that's why I was just showing you a side by side. Um pretty close if if you look at that the wall signs Quick Trip is only plus 19 square ft. um actually have one less than they do. Uh the canopy plus 15 uh pylon, they have 91 more. Um Quick Trip is proposing a monument sign. Um where the competitor didn't um and the scale and the directional um like I said in the we're we're 103 square feet uh off of that, but if you exclude the truck scale, pretty close. Um, another is the kind of shows you the the graphic, the rendering of what those the the canopy signs, the building signs, what they really look like to scale. Um, and with that, love to entertain any questions.

Can you can you tell us more about the scale signs? The scale sign is just uh really it's just to direct the trucks onto the scale. Did Did they like drive under it? They drive under that's why it's what 22 feet tall, right? Okay. Um so yeah, it's and that's why I consider a pylon. But yeah, it's Have you considered any other designs for that? That's above me. Yeah, I I can I don't know if they've ever done a scale without a truck with a scale sign to be honest like this like Yeah, but we can ask.

I I don't know. I'm I'm trying to get educated here, right? Just to clarify, I appreciate your your table that you did, but we we aren't bound by precedent and comparison to other users. And you mentioned that earlier. I understand. I don't I don't doubt the desire to not be at a competitive disadvantage, but that's really not up to us and probably something that at least I don't think I could find a practical difficulty, okay, situation on. So that said, I just wanted to make that clear that we we don't go on precedent and and the comparison while I appreciate the information,

right? Yeah. Again, I I heard that and I completely understand. They just don't want to be at a competitive disadvantage and um but I do understand y'all can't go by Preston. It does speak though to changing the character of the of the neighborhood or the area. I mean it's just that's one of the seven criteria as well. Is it in line with other businesses or like businesses in that area? Well, the character of the neighborhood is going to change dramatically with the construction of the the truck stop. So,

any other questions? Wes, I'm all for directional signs because I really when pulling in somewhere, I really agree with that having that's a real safety issue is people know where they're going. So I don't have any problem with the directional signs. I guess my one I think somewhere it's the height of them. Is that part of the problem? Is that where we're way off on the varian? The square feet and correct me if I'm wrong. The square feet of the directional sign and the height the square feet of the directional is 14 and the height is five. The sign portion is only less than two feet. But I think the issue what what was the max for the directional sign?

I thought you were asking about the pylon though. Is that what you're asking about? I'm ask So I'm I'm fine with the directional signs because I think when you're going in somewhere it's confusing. I'm all for that because I get turned around very easily. Um, but I'm asking about this the height of the pylon is what? Oh, sorry.

Um, so basically it's a little more than that. The zoning code does not allow for pylon signs. We only allow for those sign types I listed in the table. So, for example, if you want to do something comparable, they have a monument sign proposed. And um, their monument sign does meet the requirements of, you know, within a monument sign. So, a maximum height and the square footage. So they're really asking for something that's not permitted per se. So the height, I guess you could say, yes, it's too tall. It's also too large. Just too large. Okay. So I would be against that. Okay.

Yeah. And they're they're proposing 80 foot pylons on which is 229 square feet. Similar to Well, we've talked about Preston. I won't I won't bring that up. Now, how tall is your biggest sign? Okay. 80. All right. How tall is their biggest sight? I don't know that. Well, come on. You know everything about that. Come on. I just know that there's five in the area. I don't I don't know the heights. Um I've asked we're going to look into that. Right.

I could review the file. I was not able to find the height, but it I mean the sign was likely built in the gosh early 80s late 70s. You know, a lot of the sites along East Wooster were either built, you know, before they were in the city and they were later annexed or they have a variance or they're legal non-conforming because the sign was constructed with a permit back in 1978 or whatever date. So, I'd have to have some time to research that. So, if we go with an 80 foot sign and there's a 65, then they come back and they say we're at a competitive disadvantage. Do we get into this who sign is bigger thing? I hope not. I'm just asking. Yeah. Um, competitive disadvantage. Your competitor is our competitor. Yeah. Who is it? Yeah.

Speedway and 7-Eleven. Okay. They're not a truck stop though, are they? They are not down the street. No. Okay. You'll compete for some gasoline sales. Correct. But you're a truck stop and they're not. And food, kitchen, convenience store. And they have a convenience store. Correct. Yep. Gotcha. Thank you, Tim.

Yeah, I mean I think the way signing finds make uh way finding signs make a lot of sense. A high percentage of traffic accidents happen at gas stations. In fact, there's even a fatality not far from here at a gas station recently. Uh and you know, it has a big footprint. So, I understand uh you know, wanting to have extra signage. Um, however, the pylon signs, I think the code is pretty clear that those are uh not permitted. So, as uh as written, I would not support the variance. Jeff, did you have any questions?

Um, I don't have any questions. The my I have I guess a comment. I would think you're well while you're right agree that the character of the neighborhood will be altered. it's coming there it and the what I was referring to on the seven criteria whether the essential character of the neighborhood would be substantially altered but this looks like every other business like this to me these this the signage when I see these pictures that so it doesn't this request seems reasonable to me

I dare mentioned the word approval with conditions. Again, I get the impression that you aren't authorized to most likely. No, I know the 80 foot is an issue. They're willing to go below that if that's a if the 80 is the hangup or if if the whole thing is no pylon at all. We chatted a little bit after the last time you were here and I think you've got a lot of experience and I don't I don't doubt I imagine you've run into issues with signage before because these highway signs just aren't popular, right? And and Bowling Greens wrestled with this for as long as I've been around here.

I can tell you that I I won't be in favor of any motion that involves these these pylon signs. And as I stated, I understand Speedway is your competitor. That was a long time ago. That pylon is there and they're putting a sign that's greater in square footage than is permitted, but that pylon's there. You're proposing something new under a new code. Understand? And to me, that's significant. And to me, with all due respect to to Mr. Crawford, an 80 foot tall, 224t sign or whatever would alter the character of the neighborhood in my opinion.

So that's I'm I'm real firm on that. So, having said that, and again to open a can of worms, but if there were a motion to approve this as submitted with the exception of the signs that are not permitted, these the pylon signs, I could support that. Yeah. So, the variance would be adjusted from nine total to eight and then the reduction of the square foot. Is that how just basically remove the one pylon? That's the one that's not permitted, right?

Well, technically we're considering the truck scale a pylon sign also. So that's what he's asking for um confirmation on what you mean or clarification. Yeah. So let's go back for a minute and talk about this. Um, I've heard one opinion that we should approve it as submitted. I think I've heard three that have objections to the pylon signs. Um, with the clarification that the scale sign is a pylon sign. U, Julie, does that change your thinking any?

Yeah, I guess I did not realize that. I thought the scale you you're talking about this one here that's still considered a pylon. I was thinking I'm looking at this. So that's my phone. It's also a pylon size. Yeah, that's what I just heard from him say. So can the scale sign Maybe that's what Tim was talking about. Rather than driving under, can it be to the side and be smaller or something? I don't Is that what you're I mean that's I don't know either. I don't know that answer to be honest. Okay. Like I said, I've never never seen Quick Trip do anything other than Okay. the prototypical sign, but I we've heard from Jeff Jerry, any comments down there at that end on this? No, I'm good. Thanks.

Okay. Tim, can I ask you Tim a question? Is your issue with both of these? It it's mainly mainly with this sign that to me is uh is significant significant variance. He's talking about the 80 foot pylon sign and I think I'm hearing you say the QT not the scale sign. I would be okay with the scale sign.

I was until I realized that's also pylons. So if I say no to pylons then yeah that's the sticky wicket. I but I am no to pylons. I'm clear on that. I've seen at other truck stops those scale signs and they're very much like what you're employing here. And uh even though it's a pylon sign just to clarify again what's the height of that one?

22 feet. I guess I would be okay to compromise with doing away with the 80 foot pylon sign and allowing the the 22 foot scale pylon sign um and approving the rest of it as submitted is my feeling. It is sort of in the middle of the footprint of the parcel so it doesn't maybe seem as significant. So, well, you certainly want them to know where the scales are. So, that's why I didn't have an objection to that. I thought that was a directional sign we were talking about. So,

that seems like it to me, too. Yeah. Tell people where they need to go. Yeah. Okay. Any final thoughts from anybody before we dispose of this one? Is there a motion? I'll make a motion to approve the variance request as submitted minus the 80oot pylon sign. Second. I would. Thank you. Okay, it's been moved and seconded. Any discussion? Mr. Secretary, call the role, please. Uh, Jerry Anderson, yes. Jeff Crawford, yes. Tim Emer, yes. Julie Broadwell, yes.

Rod Noble, yes. Your variance has been approved with the condition that the pylon sign is 80 foot pylon sign is not included. Sounds good. Thank you all so much for your time. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Anyone here to visit us from the lobby? Mr. Herold? I was not I was not sworn in. It's lobby visitation. Do you want me sworn in? You swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth will help you guide. I do. State your name and address for the record, please.

Thank you. William Herald, uh 10:30 Kiaat Avenue, Bowling Green. I have been coming to zoning board of appeals meetings started in I got to say this right. I started in the 1980s and I haven't gone the entire time, but I would be I think you'd be hardressed to find anyone that's been to more meetings other than perhaps Heather and and Lori. Um, and Judianis, uh, and I've seen a lot of, uh, issues. I've seen the the characteristic of uh zoning board of appeals as a group and you get different personalities. Uh and I want to tell you that I am really impressed with how you handled the items tonight. You you asked the right questions. You approached it the right way. All that without Judy being here, which is amazing. And I just want to encourage you. Yeah, there were a few glitches tonight, but you you were very thorough and I want to thank you for that. And I cannot imagine why this room isn't packed for zoning board of appeals meetings because what would be a better place to be than here for these meetings? So, thank you and and keep up the good work. for your comments. Appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you.

Um, we've discussed a couple of times and uh I know between ourselves from time to time about the potential for getting together for a work session, for lack of a better term. And I think this evening is a perfect example of why that might be constructive uh to talk about things like how we make motions, how we get to the point where requests can be amended. Does it have to be done by the applicant? Can we do it? Can we attach conditions? All those sorts of things and discussion of that crazy god-awful term practical difficulties that we all wrestle with and just how the meetings run in general. Um, we talked about we talked about doing it this evening. I knew that David wasn't going to be here. I'd really like for everybody to be present. So, um, if we don't have too heavy of an agenda, actually I told my wife I'd probably be home by about 7:45 tonight, but u if we don't have too heavy of an agenda in September or October, does everyone plan to be here for those?

I do. Those meetings? Yes, Jeff. Yes. Okay. I sent a message to David Flegger today asking him if he would be here and I didn't hear back. I'll reach out to him and to Jay and um hopefully we'll get a September or October. Is that okay with you, Heather? Yes. One of those.

Hopefully Jeff and Jay can be here one of those months for sure. And we will send out a notice and add that to the agenda and spend I don't know half hour, 45 minutes. I'd hope wouldn't take any longer than that. I' I'd have an agenda put together with some talking points and, you know, we could just sit and hash some of these things out so that um we're on the same page and when we're faced with issues like we were tonight, we don't have to fumble around and and uh we know we'll know how to deal with it hopefully. So, sound good. Great. Okay. Great. Is there a motion to adjurnn? to mood.