Commission Rules Committee - Regular Meeting

At this time, I will open the floor for nominations for someone to serve as the committee chairperson.

I'll I'll nominate, mister commissioner Jared Anderson.

Second. Yeah. I'll second that.

I think Steve reached to it there. So

Move your nomination. Steve.

All in favor of Commissioner Anderson serving as chairman of the Commission Rules Committee say aye. Aye. Any opposed? And there are none. Congratulations, Jared. Do you want me to go ahead with the or do you want me to go ahead and get this going?

Go ahead. Let me do the

vice chair thing. And K. Unless you need a second to

Yeah. Go ahead.

Alright. I'll, open it up for the election of rules committee vice chair. Any nominations?

I'll nominate Rick Carver.

Commissioner French nominates commissioner Carver. Is there a second?

I will second it.

Second by commissioner Giles. Any further nominations?

Move. Nominations seen.

Motion to cease nominations. Any objection? Hearing none, nominations are have ceased. All in favor of commissioner Carver serving as vice chair, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? There are none. Congratulations, commissioner Carver.

Thank you.

Item a, setting of the agenda. We've got a published agenda. Chair will stand for motion to approve the agenda as published. You can you can hit your button now.

Okay. Steve, are you signed in?

K. Got a motion from commissioner Giles to set the agenda, seconded by commissioner Carver. Any discussion? Saying none, if you're in favor, vote yes. If you're not in favor, vote no.

Mister chairman, there are five yes votes.

Five yes votes. Agenda is set as published. Item b one, minutes of ad hoc committee. Review the Blount County Board of Commissioners rules meeting 03/29/2022. I have a motion to approve the minutes by commissioner French. Is there a second? Second by commissioner Michaels. Any discussion?

Yeah. I just where could I see a copy of those minutes?

Right here.

If you push

Oh, okay. Never mind. For the for the I see that. Thank you very much.

Any further discussion? Question

for you? Just wanted to ask you. Is that the last time we met?

Three years ago? I believe so.

I can't thought we met since then.

Not quite three, though. It's not my Well,

it was shy of a month. Golly. Okay.

And these minutes have been sitting here this whole time.

Yeah.

Any further discussion?

No.

Alright. If you're in favor, vote yes. If you're not in favor, vote no.

Mister chairman, there are five yes votes.

Five yes votes. The motion passes. Those minutes are approved. We have been busy, though, since then. I will say that.

Yeah.

Item c, public infinite items on the agenda. Is there anyone from the public wishing speak to items on the agenda? Please line up in front of the podium, single file. There's no one. Move on to item d. New business, discussion and possible action regarding board of commissioners' rules.

Yes, sir. Being being new to this committee. Watch it.

Oh, go ahead, commissioner.

Thank you, mister chairman. Being new to this committee, I've got a list of a few things that I and I'm not even sure if it's appropriate that we put under this rules committee. But I think by any stretch of imagination, this is a pretty loose group in terms of policies and procedures and so forth. And, would this be the proper time to throw out and that's that's my opinion. Throw out some ideas or throw out some things?

That's what I kinda had in plan, commissioner. I'm I'm sure I know that some others have ideas, and I've got some issues that I wanted to bring up. And I I assume if we share what issues we're interested in today, then we can all kind of get a road map together and maybe bring some firm language back to another meeting, of this committee to refine and pass forward.

So may I make the recommendation that I'll I'll give one of my thoughts and then we'll just kinda go around until we've depleted all of those? That's acceptable to the rest of the group? Go ahead. Okay. So the first one I have is reducing the amount of speaking times for the commissioners. And my recommendation would be instead of ten minutes each time, go to five minutes for the first round and three minutes for each of the subsequent rounds.

I wrote it down.

Thank you.

Anyone else? Commissioner Carver?

And the one thing that I was kinda concerned about a lot of times when I speak is to ask a question, and that will give me an opportunity to think about it and then ask another question. Do we have to limit ourselves to just two times speaking on a agenda item? Could that be opened up to where we could have more questions brought to us?

We can do whatever the body wants to do.

Because I think that would help us to because, I mean, when you hear something, then that could spontaneous you know, the next thing is you've got another question to ask on top of that. Or there was another time when I was stopped, and I was gonna move the agenda item to next month. And because I had my two times to speak, I was stopped. So I think, could we not open that? You know, we have the five minute time for our discussions, five and three minute time for discussions, then, and then have the time for the question and answer.

Yeah. And we could definitely do that we wanna recommend that. We could have multiple times beyond two. We could have maybe you could speak three three minutes, three times, or three minutes, four times.

Yeah. With me, it's probably gonna be just thirty seconds of asking a question.

And one of the things that we didn't really so the way we ask questions, the question time is technically all of the answers are also on the commissioner who asked the question. It's on their time. Right. And I think we need to emphasize that because a lot of times people ask a question, and they might turn off their button. That's technically yielding the floor, but they could keep their light on and and they can interrupt the speaker if they wanted to. If the sometimes the speakers go on tangents, I think, and they're answering their question, and they say, I'm gonna respond to your to your question. I'm gonna give you the answer, and I'm gonna take thirty seconds to do that. And then I'm gonna go on for, you know, five more minutes and respond to other things people have said, and they're really not allowed to debate when they're answering questions.

Yeah. They're supposed to come to

the commission to the chair.

Yeah. They're supposed to be answering questions.

Perhaps we can, when when they do answer the question, just stop the time. Maybe they can stop that time, let them answer the question, then start it again for the next question. If if Five minutes of questions and answers.

Pardon? Five minutes of questions and answers?

Well, it depends on how many how many times we're we're gonna speak. Based on what I'm hearing, the speaking time, five minutes and three minutes. And then then the third time, questions and answers.

Something to think about.

I mean, it's something to to think about. I mean, we do

whatever I guess I should've said over there.

Do whatever the proof I

want you

to do. But I, you know, I'm thinking

Jump in, Steve, whenever

I'm thinking the reason we're reducing time is the is is the reduced times that

Are you reckon

getting out of here. Speed. Right. If we do it five minutes, three minutes, and then leave the third time for questions and answers, then that'll give us three times to

That's a possibility. Yeah.

Yeah. That's just a suggestion. Yeah. I mean, I those people got ideas too.

So when we went to the ten minute deal, I thought that's a lot of time. And then when I realized the first time that we called somebody to the podium and asked them a question, and they took eight and a half minutes of the ten minutes, it was I was like and and then and then I got shut down a minute and a half later. I'm thinking, well, so while I I could see where, you know, we can probably get more straight to the point with five minutes like commissioner Giles is, maybe laid out on the table. And then commissioner French has, you know, notated that if the time could be stopped, so my question would be to the clerk. It was that an issue, and was that why we went to the way it is now?

Is it is it an issue to stop the time when someone you know, instead of it taking off the time of the speaker, was it an issue? Is that why we went to ten minutes and the speaker's time was our time as well?

Okay. So I'll I'll show you how that the speaker works or how the timer works.

Okay.

Alright. So you have been speaking, and then you you ask a question.

He he hit stop.

And it stops, and it's nine minutes and forty nine seconds. So he the speaker answers the question

Start.

And I start it again.

So it is was it a

thing that I am paying 100% attention.

Right.

I think you know? I'm and and I do. I I I do try.

So I guess, you know, my my opinion on the matter would probably weigh heavily on is that something that you're willing to

I'm I'm at I will do whatever you all ask of me to

do. Okay.

I I work at the pleasure of this board.

Well, I know. But I I you know, sometimes I'm sure that that

Let you

I know that sometimes that could probably get, you know, consuming. Maybe it could be passed to someone sitting back there. I don't know. To keep up with the time only, you know, with all the other things that you've got, you know, going on up here. But, I also, to Rick, commissioner Carver's point, sometimes I just have a question.

And I don't really have anything to say, but I do like to ask the question, but it then it counts as one of my so maybe maybe if we queue to to speak and we get the floor and we do it in less than thirty seconds to answer the or to ask the question, should it count to you know? I I don't know. These are things that all good good things brought to the to the topic and the line to to discuss. So I'm I'm all there. I'm I'm ready.

Yeah. And and, sorry, I wasn't ready.

Go ahead.

And, you know, just to remind this committee, we're a committee. We we put our thoughts together, put them on paper, get them finalized, and then we take them to the full commission for approval. We can't we can't do it.

Right. Right.

Whatever comes out of this committee goes to the full commission for approval.

Mhmm.

And it's up to them, or it's up to the

Yeah.

We can recommend 21. Hey. We've discussed this and thought thought of things, you know, from different points, but is this the Yeah. Desires of the board.

Alright. Any other ideas on speaking time? Because I think probably the best way to handle this is we'll take these ideas and bring some alternatives back to our next meeting on these things, and we can pick which one we like the best and tweak it.

Sure.

And if we if can agree on something, we'll

send it forward. If we can't, we'll keep working on K.

Go ahead.

Well, I've I've got the other item I have written down is the idea to make this, a permanent committee instead of an ad hoc committee.

Oh, we did that.

Oh, have we done that already? Yes.

Alright. Well

When

we did that

Boy, they quenched about taking my my rec the fruit. I like that. Oh, golly. I'd like the well, then I've got one other item, and then, John, I'm gonna turn you loose. Steve. Steve or somebody. I've I've like to discuss the time of our meeting. Start meeting meeting time.

Start time.

Start time. Because there's so we've got so many committees. And if we we've got a budget committee at 05:00, and it's over at 05:15. The longest one was yesterday. It went or two days ago, it went to 05:30. Now there are a few that are a little bit longer. But In general. Then we've gotta sit here for an hour, an hour and a half, the ones that attend the budget committee. We gotta sit here for an hour, an hour and a half till the meeting starts. And I've heard the argument.

Well, you know, we gotta give the people a chance to to get here. Why don't you look out the audience? And I'll tell you what, Pull up the archives and see how many people's been in this audience the last year meetings. If they wanna come, if I don't care what time it is. If they wanna get here, they'll get here. If it's at 05:30, it they'll get here. If it's at six, they'll be here, the ones that wanna come. So I I think we're wasting a little too much time. We get started earlier. We can get out of here.

So and what time that is to start? You can we can have two or three suggestions, bring it up to the the full commission, and let them make their choice.

So when when I came on commission in 2018, we had one time for commission and one time for agenda.

And I'm saying make it both. You're right. Make them both the same.

Yeah. So I'm I'm just clarifying that if we did do something, I think it would affect both meetings. Exactly. A concern and I I know that very rarely, commissioner French, that we have a very long budget meeting.

Right.

But they do happen. And then as well, a lot of times, our beer board or our which is a very random, you know, scheduling. It doesn't necessarily happen every month, but, a lot of times those meetings are, within that

Yeah. In between.

Gray area between the between it and 06:30. And then zoning, you know, zoning hearings or, things of that nature, are able to be you know? And a lot of times, it doesn't take us all the way to meeting time. However, it does give, if we did have a a a longer budget meeting and we did have a beer board meeting. At that point, it does give some of those people that had been in those committee meetings, ample time to use the restroom and get refreshed and kinda reset their mind.

But I I think there is maybe, a half an hour there that that could be looked at. But, I feel like if you take into consideration the the public opportunity to get here, I I would I wouldn't I know that that doesn't happen a lot as well. But I I

There were two people at the last agenda meeting. Two public people.

Yeah.

The meeting before that, I think that we had six, I think. I'm I'm just saying if they wanna be here, they'll be here. Mhmm. It and, I mean, I know your suggestions. I'm not saying do it. I'm just saying take some options to the full commission and let them vote on it. And let you know, we can go from there.

I would probably suggest we just take one option. To me, I think the only option we've really got on that one is do we move it to 06:00 or not.

Okay. Just given that we've have an issue with that.

Just given that we've got a window to get the, agenda put together from budget to to workshop and It's plenty. So You know? Yeah. Perhaps that'd be enough time if there is a short budget meeting to have another zoning public hearing or something in there. Mhmm.

May I speak?

Mhmm. Go ahead.

As far as zoning public, you know, those are usually not very long. We try to work those in. As far as beer board goes, we could just say that those are going to be on the third Thursday of the night. First reading is this month. Second meeting is the next or second reading would be the next month.

I think that when people have applied for beer permits, they anticipate a couple of months because most city councils and all who have to do those approvals, its first reading is this month. Second reading is the next month. So we could still you know, we could follow those guidelines and just say that billboards will now be held the same night as commission meeting at five or 05:30. More than likely 05:30 because those are are quick meetings. And even if the time that you're recommending is 06:00 on Tuesday nights after the budget meeting, that would still give us enough time to get those items moved to the workshop agenda.

Has there been some issues about the, attorney, though, being here?

About what?

On his time frame where the attorney can be here for that, but we're gonna do the final and and do the sign up.

That that might help their schedules out too. Because they only come for the second reading.

Yes.

And if they knew that those were always gonna be on the third Thursday, the same as the commission meetings, they now that we have two, Scott, Stewart, and Craig share those responsibilities, then they would know that that's a possibility for that night. So

Okay. That makes sense.

Yeah. I've yeah. That, that pretty well lays it out. You know, if we had it more of a dedicated night for each reading.

I think that would work well.

Yeah.

I agree.

Anyone else on meeting time? Okay. I wanna bring up one of my items, and that is a budget consent calendar. So one of the things that I've been thinking about is we have a lot of budget items, and they they should all be scrutinized, and everybody should read them and and vote on them conscientiously. When we're taking a vote, we could put those items on one budget consent calendar if they meet certain criteria.

So for example, if something passes the budget committee and it does not have any abstentions when it comes out, it doesn't have any no votes when it comes out, everybody else is a yes, and it's under a certain threshold, say, 250,000, then the presumption is that's gonna go on a budget consent calendar for the workshop. Any commissioner can pull it off, anything on that agenda, just the same as the regular consent calendar for a separate vote. But if everybody thinks it's a noncontroversial item and they don't wanna have any special extra time spent on it, then we can vote it through as one consent calendar in the same way as the regular consent calendar.

But I think I heard you say, just reiterate, that if any commissioner that had an issue with pulling an agenda item off would have that authority and right to do so.

Same as the regular consent calendar. If any commissioner and it only takes one. Right. One commissioner says, I want to pull this off for a separate vote, It's gonna come off.

Great idea. And

it prevent that.

And it is a separate consent calendar for the budget? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

What was the dollar threshold?

Well, one I've been thinking about was if it's a budget amendment of 250,000 or less

Okay.

Then it would be eligible to be. If it's if it's above that amount, it's automatically not it's gonna be separately discussed. And I'm sure anybody's got thoughts on what that threshold should be, and I'm open to whatever suggestions we've got. We've got a lot of items that are well under that threshold, and sometimes we have a lot of them for different departments.

That might help with maybe cutting down the time between it too, and we might be able to put another we might be able to put another meeting in between that. It'll cut down on the budget committee time. Well, the budget No. The budget committee still meets.

Yeah. They

wouldn't they wouldn't they wouldn't be able to do it. That's right. Yeah. Thank you.

Alright. Any other issues or thoughts?

Steve, did you have did you have any? Or I'm sorry. Commissioner Michaels? Did you have anything that you wanted to any new business that you wanted to add to potential discussion?

I would I would request that that we reevaluate you know, we have we have an agenda meeting, and that meeting is to determine whether something moves forward to full commission. Several years ago, I think it was this committee since I've been on commission and I was on this committee, it was recommended that we had two sponsors for resolution. And I agreed with that. However, it's been my experience that tactfully, politically, that can be used that can be weaponized to get something pulled off the agenda, and and it has been. I think that everybody up here is, of sound mind that if they think something needs to be brought to the county commission, they should be able to do so.

And it should be up to the body to determine whether it moves forward to the regular commission meeting or not. So I don't know that we need a rule to oversee a, the whole body to whether something makes it to that body or not. So I would like to recommend to remove having to have a co sponsor for resolutions just because it has been used as a weapon in this commission.

Look. Can I make a statement about the resolutions also?

Yeah. Go ahead.

So we've had a few times where we've had resolutions submitted past the deadline. I'd like to make sure that we do stay on that deadline time so that the proper process of the clerk and the mayor has the time to read those and review and have everything in place. So having resolutions put in past the deadline kinda puts a situation on us also.

Yeah. And one of the things I'm actually gonna be sending out, I haven't had a chance to do so because I need to confer with with some other people in the budget and accounting department is I'm gonna remind all the commissioners about our deadline because there are but I also wanna address we have some inconsistencies on our time frames in the rules, and I would like for us to clean those up. So there are some references to things need to be submitted five days before the meeting is is gonna be there, is gonna be held. There And are some places where it prefers to working days. Well, working day is different than a calendar day, of course. So I think I think it all needs to match and have kind of the same

It says working days here.

It says working days and

Clerk has at least five working days prior to the date of the meeting. Right.

But, you know, I had that discussion today with the representative Moon, And the his his thoughts or opinion as as a farmtarian was it's five days, and you don't count weekends or holiday or national holiday. Those are the only, yeah, five working days like like, Brick said.

Like, it says the resolution.

Well, and that's what that's what state code says. Yeah. I think if we're gonna I think we need to be code says. We need to be consistent in our rules, and we probably just need to say that because if you're just reading the rules by themselves in isolation

Yeah.

You're not necessarily gonna go look at the state code that says Right. That says that.

Actually, state code.

And you could argue if it's got two inconsistent phrases that it means something different. So I think we need to I agree. We need to clean it up and say, this is what we mean. Alright. One last thing that I wanted to bring up and have you all be thinking about is, we have over several years during public comment time.

We've kind of adopted some customs and some, informal rules on speaking. So one of those would be we've we've we've said you can only have one speaker at a time that comes up. You know, you have to address the chair. We've got a few of those kinds of things that I think it would be better and in the public interest if we codified them and set in the rules. Here are some guidelines for public speaking so that people know in advance and maybe have have them put in our rules, have the commission agree on them, and then perhaps we can print them on the back of the speaking cards or have them available for the public to be aware of what you know, so that they don't get embarrassed when they come up and try to bring up three people and then like to tell them no.

Right. We only have one at a time, and it's and it's come up. But if you do it for one person, you gotta do it for everybody. So

I agree. I think that's pretty good. We just need to come up with what items we need to put on that. Right?

Yeah. And it'd probably be good if you all if you had a chance to to look at see what other jurisdictions do even outside of Tennessee for for public comment time, there are some good guidelines out there that are viewpoint neutral, but just you know, someone gets up and wants to play a trombone, I'm gonna stop them. You know? And we can't we can't have a rule for everything, but it'd be good to have some normal things in there that people are aware of.

So I don't know if this is where we need to address this, but, I also Well, Gay, is is this where we might introduce maybe doing something with this billboard in front of my face? And

I think that that is in the plans. I think that IT is looking at lowering the monitors and doing some re reworking up up in here.

Okay. What about audiovisual equipment for?

That. A

source of online live?

Yes. They and I'm I'm not sure if that is and Justin's not here, and I'm not sure if Paul but they they are gonna be putting more cameras, and then they're looking at the options of easier access for the meetings live by either YouTube or Facebook.

Okay.

So though Justin is kind of spearheading all of that.

When when what kind of a timeline I mean, is this something before the end of the fiscal year?

Or It

is it gonna have to go through is it gonna have to go through budget process for

Probably so. Mhmm.

So if it has to go through budget, we probably won't see it till next year.

Possibly not. Not until after the budget's approved. I'm not sure. Unless he has some money left over floating around this year.

Okay. So with that being said, we probably need to keep it on our radar. And if there's things that need to be addressed around those changes, we might we might think about the rules because

I I think that they are going to somewhat outsource the meeting coverage and that these cameras and things are possibly worked remotely so that they they pan in on, like, four commissioners four commissioners that you know, they they would come in closer and maybe one back here that would tie in on the speaker. So they they are looking at some changes, some pretty big changes, I think.

Okay. Well, I'm I'm just saying from a standpoint of if we have, you know, some kind of a media a social media presence, we might look at some rules from this committee, on how that we really don't know how it looks. I'm just saying maybe we start we need to think about it. Need to be be thought processing.

I I do know that when Justin and I'm sorry. I'm probably speaking more than I should be. But when Justin and I met about this about a month ago, the YouTube option seems like a more possibly better in some ways because if it's through a Facebook page, we cannot control comments. Mhmm. Not that we want to control people's comments, but things can get out of hand and spiral very quickly. And, you know, do we want that?

Well, I'm I'm pretty sure

that But, I mean

could turn comments off on on things.

But I don't know that we can because it's a government.

Oh, okay. Yes. There might be some

rules think that we can. Okay.

So that that is something that we're

Well, e either way.

So Yeah. But I think, in the years several years back, it was a YouTube video. The the meetings were on YouTube, and that that worked really well. So I think that that and then if people I guess if they wanna record that and put it on, then it it's out there. There. Mhmm. And we can't control that part of it. But if if we are responsible for that Facebook page, then we cannot it's free speech.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. We just need to be thinking about those things that could possibly come down the pike.

And I I think ease for the community to be able to watch the meetings Mhmm. Is what we all desire.

Yeah.

We we want them to because it is difficult to access our meetings and watch them live. It you had to go in, you know, several different ways, and and it's difficult. So we do need to make it easier for the public to be able to view the meetings.

Well, I feel like that maybe some of the reason that we don't get much feedback or people aren't, involved anymore than they are is because they're disconnected from what we're doing. And we can say, well, they know what the meeting time is, but we change it every two years or three. Looks like we're gonna do that again. There's just if we we just need to make it easier for for people to find us. I think we would see a little bit more of a response if if they knew it was, you know, there.

But they can access it now on our government webs website. Right?

Yes.

That's what I thought.

Yeah. If you've got a degree in, IT.

Must be smarter than I thought then if you can get there.

Okay. If I was paid by the hour to find something on our website, I'd be a rich man.

Any other thoughts or items?

Yes, sir. I have a few more. And and, again, if this is not appropriate or if it's not the correct topic, you'll correct me. There's no doubt. I'm I'm calling this professional meeting protocols. I've never been involved in, I shouldn't say, that isn't fair. That isn't fair. But I come from I come from a background to where you don't eat and drink during meetings, that you don't use your cell phone. And if you do, you have to get up and leave the room, especially texting. And I've had at least one encounter in here where someone's watching a sporting event on their personal device.

Is that acceptable? I'm I'm asking. I've not found anything that says we can't.

Which team were they rooting for?

Not going there, sir.

How much money do I have on it?

My my my point is if there's anything documented around that, I haven't seen it. So if if we do have I personally have some interest in setting some parameters and some guidelines around that, that we do need to get it documented. And I I don't want I'm not gonna wanna come across as critical. These are questions that I that I literally have. You and I've had some of these conversations in the past. So would the rules committee address something like that?

That's definitely something we can we can talk about and put forward. I don't think there's anything

Nothing off the board?

Nothing particular right now that in the rules that would govern them.

Well, I'll use the I'll I'll use the other night as an example. The amount of texting or whatever people were doing, you could pay and you when they when they sit there and go I'm like, I don't know who they're tech I don't care who they're texting. Is that permit should we do that? To me, that's Well, I doesn't feel professional.

I think that we're all adults up here.

I would I don't disagree.

And and I mean, I

But I wouldn't let my kids do that.

Do what?

I wouldn't allow my children

Oh, I wouldn't to do

that in a in a professional setting.

Sure.

So I I I hope you're not saying that adults should be able to do that.

Or are you?

No. I'm I'm telling you. I'm not gonna tell John Giles what he can and can't do from over here. I I mean, I'm just saying.

Oh, yes. During the meeting? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not gonna go, Steve, and and so it wasn't you. Well I concur.

I I don't like it when people wear hats through those doors right there. It's just something I don't wear a hat in a church sanctuary, and I don't wear a hat in a government building. But I'm not gonna tell people they can't. I just it it tells me a lot about a person. No.

Well so so let me try to be as clear as I can, commissioner. If that's not an acceptable behavior to this commission, I think we need to tell people. Because I as I said, I don't if I brought if I brought a Hardee's burger here with me, I don't know that I've seen anything that says I shouldn't, but common sense is don't do that. And, again, I'm not trying to be contrary here. I'm just saying, I think we do need to. And and, again, I'm a rule follower. We don't like to rule. Let's change them. But let's get let's make it real clear and binary so everybody understand what the expectations are. Does that make sense to you?

Yeah. I have to agree. I've I've been in I don't know how many different settings in in business world and in the community organization world and where you don't turn your cell phone off. Now I'm not saying you don't have your cell phone. It can be on you because I'm sorry, but there are emergencies every now and

then.

Yep. And and people have to be notified.

I'm not turning Right. You're right.

But you don't you don't like, commissioner Yalisey, you don't sit there and text. We're here to conduct the business of the county. I'm sorry. But and we need the full attention of everybody to do that. And I'm sorry if you're sitting there texting.

Oh, I agree.

You're not paying attention to what's going on in this business meeting, and the people elected you to represent them in this meeting. So so how can you make an informed decision when you're busy texting or whatever and not listening to the issue that's that's come before you? So bottom line, I I have to agree. I I I don't mind having cell phones here in case of an emergency, but don't use them unless it is an emergency.

Commissioner Mahend, just to be clear, I completely agree. If you were to say I can't bring my cell phone in here because I'm

still there. I would never tell you that.

Yeah. And I know that. And I'm not suggesting that, sir. I'm not either because I have children and grandchildren and invent a merge if I get one, I'm gonna remove myself and go outside.

I I will abide by whatever rule, but I will fight all that tooth and nail. And I agree with a 100% what you said, Ron.

I I bitch.

I'm just glad some of us show up.

Well, it's true. And That's another Final final comment on on with that. I've got a list here that Charlie Curtis sent me years ago. And if you look at it, it says items to consider for local groups and cell phone use and whatnot.

Well, I don't think we have anybody

Oh, yeah.

Necessarily interrupting a meeting, do we?

I mean interrupting a meeting. I'm just saying they don't use their cell phones there.

What do you Well, I I I'll tell you this.

No. They they're not interrupt I'm not standing there. Well meeting.

Right now Yeah. Here here mine's in my back pocket. Yeah. But sometimes it'll be out here during the meeting.

Yeah. Mine is too, but it's on mute.

If I pick it up sure. I always try to do that. I mean, but I think everybody in here has accidentally left their cell phone on possibly one or twice.

Once or twice. But

if I pick my phone up during one of our meetings, I put it down because I when people see me with my phone in my hand, like you said, it tells them that I'm not in I'm not listening

That's what it is.

Or engaging in the Right. And we are here for us specifically to be engaged with what we're doing. Right. And so while it is a distraction, and I'm I I wish I could take that thing and throw it out to wind and never see it again or get a flip phone, but you it just you can't, especially if you do business. But I don't know that we need to maybe we need to have some statements that come from the rules committee just reminding other commissioners.

I don't know that we I don't I'm not gonna vote for put your cell phone in a basket at the door when we come in. I'm not gonna vote for you're

gonna get you

out if we don't turn turn calls. Said that. Nobody said that. I know.

But Nobody said that. We're just talking about using. Now to to an I've I've got a question about one comment you made. Mhmm. If it's not if your phone does not go off on mute and you look at it and it's you pick it up and look at it. And if it's not an emergency Yeah. Yeah. Why should why should you even pick your phone up at all if you don't if you you know? That's what I'm saying. You you know, it's there in case of emergency. Now I can I can if it's mute or on, vibrate

Right?

I can hear it vibrate and then look at it. And if it's an emergency, yeah.

Well, there there'll be there'll be times when, something during the day, business wise or something. You know? And and just like right there, it it's it's been in my pocket since I walked in here. And a lot of times, that's where it's at during the meeting. But if I have it laying out here, maybe I'm expecting some kind of correspondence of, I'm here.

I got it picked up. It's dropped off. You know, whatever. And maybe I'll be looking for that, but I I I really you know, I'm I think I know where that's coming from, you know, your you know, the initial mention of it.

But I've noticed it, and it seems just an observation of my been at this for two and a half years, and it seems I've been at the thank you. I've been at this for two and a half years, and it seems like like it's almost getting worse sometime. As a matter of fact, somebody texted me during the meeting the other evening, and I was like, nope. Not going there. And I just I just refused to answer. And it came from somebody

Yeah.

Inside of this room

Yeah.

During the workshop stage.

Maybe that's maybe that we we definitely need to address that. You you you probably shouldn't correspond with others. Right. Yeah.

And if I can build and I I'm not sorry for bringing it up, but you mentioned the other thing. And, I'm gonna ask this in the form of a question. Do we have an attendance policy?

Our attendance policy is state code says that all members shall attend the meetings. It says shall

That's not may.

Well, if you if you look at some of the other local county commissioners, they have rules that say if you miss x amount of meetings over x amount of time, there are consequences.

What does it say those consequences are? Because

As I was reading those today, may I get back to you, though? Yeah. I think Knox County was one of them that had it. Because I I I don't wanna I don't wanna say and then miss missquote myself or mistake something. One of the things that drove me to to draw run for commission is when I tried to educate myself and came in.

One of the things I noticed that oftentimes, a certain seat or two seats seemed like they were vacant at least 50% of the time. And believe it or not, that was one of the motives behind me run going, wow. You know? If if you've been elected, the least you can do is be here. And that was probably over an eight month period that I that I that I was attending prior to being being elected to this illustrious board.

But bottom line is that it's just I just I just wondered if we had an attendance policy, I hear what you're saying. And I would like to see us tighten that up a little bit. And, again, and there's a difference between excused and unexcused. And I realize people don't these are let's face it. When you come into these roles, we make $405 a month. If you break it down sometimes, we're making 48¢ an hour for the amount of time we put into this thing.

He makes 405 a month?

That's before taxes.

That's yeah. After taxes, Steve, I make $35.12.

But I was gonna say,

I'm getting cheap. Beside

I get my my beliefs my belief is if you have asked the voting public to put you into this position, the least that you can do is to show up.

I I I 100% agree with you. There's not anything, but I here's what we've gotta be careful. And, again, I agree with you. I agree with everything Ron said and, you know, commissioner French said and you've said.

I'm I'm wrong.

But we we gotta be careful. These are elected positions. Yes, sir. And we have to be careful not to take beliefs or values and make rules out of them because everybody, obviously, doesn't have the same morals and values or disciplinary, self disciplinary

I couldn't I couldn't agree with you more, sir. But I think if we if we have those things identified, and for someone like myself who said, okay. I wanna run for county commission. And I saw those rules.

You'd know coming in.

You if I said you you gotta attend 75% of the meetings, I'm like, I can't do that.

But we don't have any power if if he doesn't or they don't or she doesn't. We don't have any jurisdiction or power or statute behind us that says, oh, well, he's not attended 75%, so now it's time to reap reap the what you sowed. And we we have we don't have any disciplinary power.

I I concur. I I concur. Same way with train our annual training. I asked the question. I said, so I've gotta have we've gotta have these hours of training every year. But what if I say no? I'm not gonna do it. And when I was in Nashville last time around, they said, well, we're thinking about not allowing people to run. And Jerome came back and said, that's not that's not gonna happen. We're not gonna put that type of restrictions on folks saying if you don't do your training, you can't run the next time around.

So and I I recognize that. But once again, I just think it's as you said earlier, Steven, I completely agree. We're adults. Now not everybody is mature and is community minded as some of the others. But the bottom line is if I can look at this and I know, okay, I can't eat and I can't use my cell phone, I've gotta go to 75% of the meetings, I can make an educated decision. What I what I concern is when we have 21 people, and this is my observation. We have six or seven people who run this commission. When I say run, deal with a lot of the issues. Everybody else seems very quiet. I wish we had 21 people that spoke up and expressed their points of view, and I realized that isn't realistic.

We'd probably have to start at noon then. We'd probably have to start at noon.

Yeah.

So, anyway I

I I you know, maybe, you know, as far as discussion on on what you brought up, maybe we we can print some some things that we feel like or

Just some guidelines.

Yeah. Yeah. We can print those and and hang them in the on the back of the door in the office in there. I I just don't know if we can I don't know if that's a a subject that we need to bring to the committee and to the commission?

It's great. We got 21 commissioners. They're the ones that make the decision. You take to them what what we think ought to be looked at.

And let the group decide.

And let the group vote. Let them vote. We I'm not speaking for the other 16 commissioners.

Okay. Tell them. Not

speaking for these. I'm not speaking for the other four here. I'm speaking for myself.

Uh-huh.

And I'm saying, hey. Let's take it to the commission. Let the commission vote.

So I wanna go back to the cell phones. Now I don't text while I'm in here. If somebody tries to text me, I just say I'm in a meeting. I hit that little button there. But there has been times where what we're discussing, I I go there and I'll research it. So I'll go into the state codes or whatever or just look to see what that means just to verify or try to get more information as I'm trying to. So I have used it as a tool to find more information. So

Yeah. I did that. That's easy. I did that last night. That's okay. Or Tuesday night, I did that Yeah. In the meeting.

But, yeah, for as is texting? No. I don't.

But if if if I have a serious problem with it and I'm down here and I see rock commissioner Giles down there, and he's he's down there like this.

Playing Pokemon?

Again, it goes back to we're adults. What he's doing, that's on his conscious. I'm not, and I can go to sleep at night. But I'm what I'm my my and I'm just saying, how you can't regulate what people are doing on their phone in here. You can I I can I can feel like it's wrong, but I don't know that we can say, you know what?

You probably don't need to be doing that. You know what mean? If you wanna have that conversation with them out in the parking lot that you know, whatever the body desires, I will I will support.

Okay. Well, I think, we need to probably get some language that we can actually debate and refine if we're gonna you know, and then vote it up or down next time. Okay.

And I'll follow-up with you with some of the things that I've that I've seen in there, especially around, absenteeism and so forth.

Okay.

Okay.

So we got down professional meeting protocols as one one thing to talk about, attendance, language as another. What other issues do we

Why this is a question. Why can't we have a county law director or a county attorney in our in attendance at our meetings?

I agree.

How many times have we gotten that weren't nobody's here?

They called me on the clock at that time.

So I'd like to have some Aren't they

on the clock? They're being paid at that time

of the year? That's one thing. And and I'm not saying that's you know, you know, they're they're gonna be paid if they're here Yeah. On their hourly basis. Second issue that I would just throw out there, and I'm not saying I'm taking a position one way or the other.

I'm You're an attorney. No.

As an attorney, if I'm if I'm here and I'm the county attorney, for example, there are a lot of issues that will come up, and it's not something that they can answer on the spot.

You may not have the resources.

Gonna be qualified. It's going to be, well, I I can give you a hunt for an indication of what I think it will be. Mhmm. And so I'm not sure how useful it would be to have them present when they're gonna have to say, well, I'll get back to you. And I just sat through a two hour discussion about something that wasn't legally contentious. It was contentious for other reasons, and we're paying that back. Sense. So

okay. Thank you. Just just a couple of other things. And then a lot of this has come up as a result of what's happening in our school systems. Do we have a code of ethics? I know that there is a comprehensive governmental reform act of twenty two thousand and six that states that we don't have to have and each county has to have it. But as I look into and get into some of the issues with and, again, I'm it probably happens with us too, but in BCS. Let me let me keep myself I go out

this weekend. Can't hear you, John.

DUI. An indecent exposure.

I I can't hear you. I I'm sorry.

Okay. I'm I'm asking the question, do we have a code of ethics? And I'm gonna use myself as an example. I go out this weekend. I get arrested for DUI, standing behind the car, urinating, indecent exposure, blah blah blah. I'm convicted. If my jail time does not conflict with my meeting time here, so what? Is is that can I still be a commissioner if I do that? And I'm just you and I'm just asking because I don't know.

Got it. Got you, Shav.

So I'm gonna preface this inside. I'm looking at my phone, and it's related to the issue.

Okay.

Looking at the code

of ethics. For the clarification.

For the clarification. But, also, don't think that our ethical we have to adhere to the code of ethics. I don't think there's a mechanism. For example, if there's a commissioner that has an issue, where they violated the code of ethics, I don't know that there's

There's no course of action.

No course of action, back to what commissioner Michaels was saying, no remedy for this body to take, to other than to censure that person, which, of course, is nonbinding. Right. That's about as harsh as it gets from the commission's power. Otherwise, it's up to the voters at election time, or if it's something that would be the subject of an ouster suit, then that could be pursued. That's that would be very difficult for you have to get 10 freeholders in the district, and they've gotta file an actual lawsuit, and it has to go through this whole Okay. Process.

Again, when I ask that question, I I'm coming from a, really, a perspective of ignorance. I I I didn't know. And as I said, as I read some of the issues that have gone on with our local school system and think we're all familiar with that, that we don't need to rehash that, that there are things that happened over the years or over the decades, and we scratch our head and go, what? How did we get here? And I just it made me think about us.

And and I'll refer you back to this code of ethics that I just pulled up. It is the one that came up was adopted by resolution number zero seven zero four zero one four, and that is to adopt a code of ethics for officials and employees of Blount County government. I don't know if it's been updated since then, but that was the initial resolution, and it refers to CTAS directing, being directed to prepare a model of ethical standards.

But, again and I I I mean, I'm not arguing, John. I've you know, I've if if if we could implement something like that, I would be all about it. However, what commissioner Anderson or chairman Anderson's reading is guidelines that are given to an employee who has come to Blount County government for gainful employment, Blount County government gives you know, grants that, gives them employment under conditions. And we they can say, these are code of ethics, and you must abide by them. If you don't, your job's at risk.

We're in a different setup. We're in a different ballgame. Yeah. Being elected officials or elected elected holders of of our seat. Our our, ethics board the the the the board of ethics is is, the constituency. And their their choice of whether that we continue if we put our name on the ballot

I see.

Is based off of you know? So it's it's it's hard to enforce any disciplinary, you know, in own people on this body in any you know, we can always have our opinions.

Mhmm. Out outside of this outside of this, meeting room no. I I agree. It it it'd be hard to to press charges. However, there are rules against your actions inside the meeting. Mhmm. There are things going on that and the the very strict rules against how you conduct yourself in these meetings.

Does that fall under the civility code?

Probably. Part of that, yes. Okay.

That's one of the reasons why we address the chair as opposed to, sure, going towards that

And a lot of

that commission.

Commissioners in Robert's rules.

Right. Right.

You know, I've got a an abbreviated summary that I you know, you can't say anything about another commissioner's motives. You can't say that another commissioner is lying. You just say they're mistaken, you know, or or the fact is mistaken or I believe it's this.

Right.

That's where a lot of it

is today. You can't you can't say, well, I think the commissioner you can't read the commissioner's thoughts and say, hey. You know, you you can't read his thoughts, so you can't speak for him and say, I think you're thinking this or this or how you're thinking. You can't do that.

We're not supposed to.

Well, that's true.

Because I've been told I've been in cahoots with realtors before, and I'm like, I don't even know a realtor. Yeah. So, anyway But if you are

refer if if someone gets up here and they say, you know, they don't refer to another commissioner being in cahoots with so and so. You know? They just say, I feel like it's being presented this way, you know, or it's thought that this, they're not referring directly, and that's allowed. Know? There's certain things that

I understand.

That are allowed because they don't violate the letter of the civility regulations.

Yes, sir.

If we're gonna get really over over, in my opinion, overzealous about it, we would say, well, you violated the spirit of what that is, but it gets real gray.

I understand. Well, personally, I appreciate the five of you educating me this evening because it there's been a whole lot of education for me, and I do and I do appreciate that. And if you want me to leave now, I will. No. No. I won't either. Anyway, thank you so much, and I've got a couple other things that based on what I've heard, I'm gonna let slide because I think I I can answer those questions for myself based on what I've heard. So thank you.

Alright. Does anybody else have any, points or ideas? Not that we are precluded from pursuing them in the future, but, I think that was a good start for tonight.

What what is our are we gonna meet monthly or quarterly or what?

I don't know that we need to meet monthly as long as we meet and do this process every year. I think we've said in the rules when we enacted this. Yeah. We we've we've said our only requirement is to meet annually to review the rules. I think what I would like to do, and I'll defer to what the the committee wants to do, is probably meet at this same slot in about a month and have some definite language if the time is available. Yeah. And Absolutely. Maybe get some recommendations refined and sent on to the commission.

Yeah. I I think I think when when I was thinking about this being a standing committee, one thing that I was thinking was you know? And I and I agree. I think, you know, until we until we like, this is our first meeting that we've ever had as a standing committee, and the I think that these are all valid issues. I think that they need to be addressed as timely as possible so that month to get back with more, definite language to to then be presented the next month to so we're talking probably May, say March, April, maybe April before any of this hits the commission.

Now, I don't necessarily think that we should only meet annually. We could've stayed at ad hoc committee to do that, but, maybe, I think, quarterly. Because I I I would. And I and I think this is something that wouldn't this board decide or this committee decide within itself what that timeline look like, or would it have to go I guess it would have to go to the commission ultimately now for approval, Jerry.

I think we just said in the the rules, we have to meet at least at least annually. Well, it says to meet annually. I think we can meet. I think that means we should probably change that Mhmm. In our first rules package. But, I think it needs to we need to meet at least annually. If we wanted to change it permanently to a quarterly, we could. I don't know that we

Well, what about what about biannually? That that would give us an average six months. You know? Hey. Is there anything if there's not?

I'm fine with either one of those as long as we can meet. You know, I think once we get something that we need to consider, I don't think we should preclude meeting a second time for that to deal with those issues.

Sure.

Sure. So

Yeah. I I did not wait till the meeting. I mean, I I think it's it's it's like the mission. The chairman ought to be able to call a meeting as needed Yeah. If we need to.

And I think that's that's part of what the rules say where all the committees rule all the committees follow the same procedures as the overall commissions.

But at the same time, if what if the chair doesn't agree with what I wanna bring to the rules committee?

Well, maybe you

can at the mercy of the chair.

Vote for a better chair next year.

I would say I would say biannually. I I would like to

I like your first shift. What? Quarterly. Quarterly? I like your first shift, but that hit me first.

Would we begin that in June since if we don't address these issues till

No. I think we need to be at at the chairman's discretion on me, what we talked about tonight.

Okay.

And if he's got something ready to go next month, I'd say let's meet next month.

Yeah. Okay.

I'm gonna

these issues. Yeah. Because we've I've I've had about eight commissioners come to me with those different issues, but most of them about the same things we talked about tonight.

Well, I mean, I'm

They're looking they're looking for some kind of, suggestions, at least, to vote on.

Hey. Listen. I'm I'm, I'm, I'm okay with Yeah. Meeting again before the end of this month to get them on the agenda for for March. I'm okay with that.

If we got them ready in time yet. Right. I agree. Yeah.

Jared, did you get my only one sponsor needed?

I think I put that down. Yes. Yeah. Recon we've got that whether we need to have a cosponsor, two sponsors for resolutions, or not.

There you go. Yeah.

Just to just to recap, if that would be useful to anybody, I have down as our issues, speaking times, questions and counting towards time, or how we handle those, overall meeting start times for the workshop and commission, budget consent calendar, two sponsors are one for resolutions. I have handwriting, can't read. Oh, calendar days versus working days inconsistencies, public comment guidelines, social media slash video online and live stream, professional meeting protocols, attendance policy, code of ethics, and then lastly, rules committee meeting frequency. You mentioned Jeff.

Yes.

That's

right. Cell phones would be under professional meeting protocols. Under those, I have texting, eating and drinking, sporting event, no hats, no phone use except for research for commission something. Those are my notes.

Commissioner Anderson, I'm gonna direct this question to you, but actually direct it to the whole committee here. Would anyone have an issue with me reaching out to a few of our other commissioners, especially those that are relatively quiet during our meetings to see if they have any additional issues that are important to them that we could bring back to this committee? I'm asking your thoughts.

I don't have a problem with that except for sunshine purposes. I think we should probably have our clerk email the commissioners and say if they have any issues that they want the rules committee consider, have them sent to the clerk. Yeah. And then she can share them with us either by email or through the next meeting.

Okay. Yeah. I got it.

Great great point. Thank you.

Alright. Any other any other issues? Did I miss anything? Okay. Let's talk about next meeting time, which is our next agenda item, and I'm trying to very carefully pull up this month.

Are you on your cell phone?

On my cell phone.

We all move them out.

Yeah. I'm I'm looking at dates. Yet. I'm looking at dates. No

protocol yet.

I've not even got mine on.

That's right. I I trust in you, mister commissioner, chairman, Jared, whatever you want us to call you.

K. So Commissioner Anderson, chairman, Jason.

Meeting is the twentieth. Planning mission, I believe, is on the twenty seventh.

We could do February 27 if you wanted to meet that soon.

That that might be planning commission night.

Is that planning commission night?

Is that the last the four Thursday? Back it up to that too.

The April is planning

We're gonna need more time.

That's twenty seventh. The twenty fifth?

For an hour about what issues you wanna talk about.

I'm sorry. What did you say?

February 25, the Tuesday of that week.

Of the last week.

Let me are you on the website?

There's Animal Center Advisory Board at 6PM that night.

Okay. What

about well, is 05:00 too early for for you all to get here, Steve?

Not me.

Jared? I'm fine with 5PM. On Tuesday? Mhmm. The twenty fifth. Let me look.

I get to do. Is that the

how many

Tuesdays is that?

It's not here, is it?

He's gonna It's at it's at it's

the last Tuesday of

the month.

It's it's That'd be the fourth day.

They've been made here sooner. Yeah. No. That's not. Animals he has to go out to the animal center. Oh, okay. Sometimes they meet here. Sometimes they don't. So that's that'd be tough.

When when's the deadline date for March? What would that be?

The first Tuesday? The deadline for what?

Or get on the March agenda.

Okay. So The items

would be the

The meeting is on the eleventh, so we have to have everything by March 4.

Okay. Would So we just need to make it happen before then.

What if

wanna put them on

Well, I think February 29.

That sound that sounds great.

Or the thirtieth.

Whatever.

February doesn't have those days.

February 29. That's that's a late year, girl. That's late year. Yeah.

You bet with testing you. I was just Oh

god. So planning commission on the twenty seventh is at 05:30. So what if we did

What what day is that? When

That's a Thursday, February 27. What if we did 06:30? Surely, they'll be done at five five

check my schedule. Oh, after the, yeah.

After planning commission?

I don't have an issue. Who's bringing dinner, though? No. We

can't eat, Ron.

Well, no. We hadn't voted him in. So

we don't So, we

I mean, we That's right.

At 06:30 on the twenty seventh?

Let's tentatively plan 06:30 on the twenty seventh, and if something comes up, we'll adjust.

That's after planning.

Yeah. Planning commission will be at 05:30, and then we'll do this at 06:30. And if they're not done yet, we'll run them off.

Hey. Watch it. Well, we used to have some meetings when I was on the. I know. They used to get home.

Okay. Any other business? Any other comments? Any objection to adjourning?

Second one. Yeah.

Alright. Hearing no objection. We're adjourned.

Thank you.