Plan & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening. I'd like to call this meeting to order. Bloomfield Town Planning and Zoning Commission, Thursday, April 24th, 2025 at 7:05 p.m. First item on the agenda is a roll call. here. Here here. Thank you. Next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes for the February 27th, 2025 meeting. Is there a motion to approve? So moved. Seconded. Are any corrections? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying I. I. I oppose abstension. Chair votes sign. Next item on the agenda is the approval of the March 27th 2025 minutes. Is there a motion to approve? So moved. Second. Any further discussion or corrections? Okay. All right. Chair will retract that and entertain a motion to table the March 27th, 2025 minutes. So moved. Second. It's been moved and second. Any

further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying I. I. I. Oppose. Abstension. Chair votes sign. Mr. Chairman, I just um point of information for all of you. We hope to be interviewing um recording secretaries in the next couple of weeks. And so, um, hopefully by our next meeting, we'll have a, um, professional recording secretary available for the meetings. All right. Thank you. Next item on the agenda is a public hearing. Uh, we opened this at the last m meeting, but before we get into it, I just want to go over our procedures on how we pro, uh, how we go about our public hearings. Uh, we first hear a presentation from the applicant. We'll then take comments from our director. We'll then take questions from the audience. We'll do questions from the commission. We'll do comments from the audience. Then we'll do comments from the commission. And then the applicant will have one last chance to make any closing remarks before we close the public hearing. With that said, is there a motion to reopen the meeting from uh our April meeting of the application 1301 Blue Hills Avenue, special permit use and revised site plan for section 4.4.C.4.b and 6.2.H for a commercial kitchen within a convenience store and a 30% parking reduction in the I2 district. Applicant is Amin B. Lee, property owner, Khalid LLC. So moved. Seconded. It's been moved and second. Any further discussion on reopening this application? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Abstension. Chair votes sign. Is there anyone here to present on this application? Uh, just come to the

podium. State your name and address, please. Push that little button. How y'all doing? My name is Amin Lee. Um 627 Brighton Parkway, apartment 4104, Bloomfield, Connecticut 06002. What else? Hey, would you like to tell us what you plan on doing? Well, I'd like to open up a um little commercial restaurant. Um I have two food trucks as it is. Um I decided to spend help the community find jobs. Um better opportunity for the um community. Um give out good food and good good um partnership owners. [Music] Um make the the town a little better place with good food. You know you happy we got good food. Hot, fresh. I ain't sitting there all day. Made the order. I'm ready to feed y'all now. Yeah. Um I love cooking. It's my passion. I'm just anxious and determined to get it started, you know, and that's about it. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Uh Jonathan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um we have been working with this applicant for some time. Uh we've provided you with a staff report. Um this is a tight site. Um we think the staff um can be supportive of um of the drive-thru um and that service. Um we do not believe that the site is of sufficient size uh to provide um sufficient parking

for um any sitdown service either inside or outside and um we as also on a very very active uh intersection in town. Um so we would recommend we as we have in the uh staff report um that um that um the commission does go ahead and prove it but does not um does not allow um any sitdown and that um the site needs to be operated presently under the existing site plan that the commission approved uh previously and if the applicant does wish to um revise particularly the traffic pattern uh um they will need to come back before the commission with a revised site plan. Okay. Thank you. This time we'll take any questions from the audience that's relevant to this application. Questions only. Where? Oh, excuse me. Excuse me. If you have any questions, you have to go to the podium and state your name and address, please. I got to sit down. No, you have you have to. For the record, this has to be on the record. U Paula Jackson, 57 Brookline Avenue, Bloomfield, Connecticut 060002. I just had one quick question. I just wanted to know where exactly is this place supposed to be located. Excuse me. Um did you go back to the podium, please? It's just better to stand there while we do your whole application. Um 1301 Blue Hills Avenue, Siko, the gas station. Ma'am, I can answer that question. It's at the intersection of Old Windsor Road and Blue Hills Avenue. It's it's where the new Sick Cold Center gas station is. It's across the street from Cumberland Farms and the Dunkin Donuts diagonally

across. You're welcome. Uh are there any further questions? Linda, is there anyone online? All right. Uh, we'll start with the commission. We'll start down. Uh, Commissioner Goff, any questions? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I'm trying to understand completely what is Yeah, I know exactly that corner. Um I think for a while that building the the gas station was there was not operational is that's correct. Yes. So has this been is it operational now? Yes. Okay. And it's serving as a there is a gas station there. Yes. And there's a convenience store inside with a drive up window. Yes, sir. You work there now or you have food? No, I have my own food truck. You have your own food trucks? Yes, sir. So, you're um what you're what you're doing here is you're partnering with people who are currently running the convenience store, gas station to have some space in the building in order to provide food and of various, you know, what's presented here is either uh drive-thru or sit down, whatever. Yes, sir. Okay. It was the sit down wasn't really a sit down was just like a waiting. So just in case somebody older or anything they need to sit down, they can sit down because I was going to put a table there, but just so they can wait, but it's nowhere to put like a little couch chair or something like that. So I put a little It's not sit down for eating. You you you had the if someone ordered food and they didn't want to get the food from the drive-in window, they could come inside. You know, some people get gas, they might put some food in there, but majority of

them do it on like online so the drive-thru can run through. Okay. Less traffic. So, it's more like a drive-through online call or call in pick up. So, so right now you're operating two food trucks. Yes, sir. And you're going to continue to do that, too, or is Yes, I got family. Okay. Okay. Who Who run the food trucks? They do every whatever I need them to do. Okay. Uh Okay. Um and I I I see the [Music] um yeah, the question I had had when I read this initially was what was corrected about the parking spaces? because that was unclear to me because it talks about it one place and that got corrected. Um, all right, no further questions. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Commissioner Marshall Neely, any questions? Hi, thank you for coming. Thank you. Exactly what direction would the drivethru be? Would it be in back of the building, on the side of the building? That's already there. It's um go to the back or we to the side. Okay. Would you happen to know approximately not not definitively approximately how much traffic goes over there? Is it like um you know like over where that location? Yeah. No, I don't know like is it really busy? Is it moderately busy? It's on the day I guess day time like any other area because there's a lot of warehouses over there. Guess around when they get out of work it probably be a little busy around there. Okay. I I was just wondering whether or not it would impede any traffic cuz that's a heavy a heavy road. 18 what is that? 180 something 187. Mhm.

Um, so I didn't know whether or not that would impede um traffic with the amount of business you um you're going to pull in, but I'll I'll leave that alone. And your hours would be 6 to 10. 6 to 10. Okay. That that's all I have. Okay. Okay. Commissioner Balden. Uh thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I think I'm so confused. So, I think all y'all are the the gas station already has a convenience store. Yes. Okay. You're going to be inside the convenience store. Are you preparing the hot food from the food truck? No. In there? Yes. There's a kitchen there now? No. That's what we going through this for so we can get it put in. Okay. Um, so are you leasing space from these from the current owners or are you the owner? No, he's the owner. Okay. So, and I'm going to go back and forth between the applicant and and the director here. So, the parking issue is resolved, uh, Director Coleman, if they don't serve hot food, but serve the prepackaged food because you wouldn't have the ability to sit down and eat food, right? But they're in they're commissioner. They are proposing to install a full service kitchen and would be preparing the hot food and whatnot, but it would only be a drive-thru. That's what we we would we would support a drive-thru. We would not support additional sit down. So that basically there's no on-site parking. They're going to drive through, pick up their food, and leave. The other thing I would note just as an aside since I you gave me the opportunity to speak is we were not aware of the potential that the food trucks might be parked there. We would not support that that they should not be parked there at all. That it's a very very tight site. I know the site. Yeah,

I know the site. Um so that's why we don't think there ought to be any sit down at all. But it's it's proposed to be a full full commercial kitchen where the food would be prepared. But it would only be a, you know, a drive-through window pickup. And thank you, Director Coleman. So, your hours of operation are going to really be from 6:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. That's a long day. Okay. Um, the waste pickup, I see a note here about waste pickup. Um, between um a regular refuge and then chemicals or oil or what have you. Are you responsible for the waste removal or or is the owner of the gas station responsible? I am. Okay. Um I think that's all I have. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes. Uh Commissioner James. Yeah. My um question is for uh the planning department. Um you make a note about if the property owner wishes to modify the existing layout or traffic circulation plan. That is something that was approved um in 2022. The existing site plan that they're operating under now with the gas station was approved in 2022. They have discussed a a modification to that site plan, but it has not been formed. And if they want to operate that, they need to come back in with a revised site plan. So they they should not be making any modifications to the traffic pattern uh and the parking locations. Okay. Until they come in with a with a revised site plan. Okay, that's it for me. Thank you. Okay, Commissioner Mlette. Uh I I just want to clarify. Um I get

the drive-thru, I get the hot food. um and no intention for sitdown service, but I think I heard the applicant um mention that and as would any other gas station and fast food, if you were going in to pay for your gas, they would be able to order there and pick up takeout as well. Yeah. Okay. Just wanted to clarify that that it wasn't exclusively drive-thru, but that the additional parking concern I I would assume um would be the primary concern um is people already coming in for something else. Yeah. Or that it wouldn't be a long stay. No. All right. Thank you, Commissioner Blunt. Hi. Thank you. At the very beginning, you clearly stated that you love to cook. It's your passion and you really want to serve good food to folks and that's amazing. I looked at the um the menu looks great, but in the staff recommendation um the town is saying that um it's recommending that you focus on the sale of prepackaged food items that are ready. I don't know where they got that from. I don't do nothing prepackaged. So, I don't I can't make cheese steaks prepackaged. Right. And French fries. Yes. Right. Or chicken wings or whatever's on my menu. So, no. But those things can be made pretty quickly. You know, less than 10 minutes. Less than 10 minutes. So, anyone who's parking and waiting for the food would be there for about 10 minutes at the most. Yes. Of course. Or it depends on, you know, the how busy I am at the time, right? like any other, you know, restaurant. You're confident that there's enough parking for Yeah. 13.

That's enough, I think. Okay. Great. Thank you. You're welcome. Uh, Commissioner O'Brien, do you have any questions regarding this? No. Um, do we have any commissioners online? Okay. Um, yeah. I I guess basically I've I haven't seen this concept. I've seen prepackaged food and gas stations, sandwiches, and stuff like that, but I haven't seen basically like a a full-blown restaurant where you I shouldn't say a full-blown restaurant, but Isaac's Isaac Bagel Isaac Bagel in Blue Hills. Yeah, but they're not a gas station. You see gas stations? Um Subway and um Sicko. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Yes, sir. And they got sit down. Oh, okay. And I I I I apologize for that. Okay. I have no further questions. This time we'll entertain comments from the audience. Is there any comments related to this application? Yes, please. Okay. The only comment I got to get my name and stuff again. Yes. Well, what Jesus Paula Jackson 57 Brooklyn Avenue, Bloomfield, Connecticut 060002. Only comment that I have is that what's wrong with it? Because we get tired of just plain hamburgers. I mean, I work at a job that has pre-wrapped food and when you

microwave it, it ain't the same. So, I'm for you. That's my cop. Thank you. Uh any further comments from the audience regarding this application? Yes. Yeah. Okay. We'll start with the commission and we'll start with Commissioner O'Brien. Any comments? [Music] Um I read the staff report. I think that they they did a good job on highlighting the issues and if the commission so felt that they wanted to approve it and they wanted to incorporate the the recommendations of the staff, I think that that that would be a good decision. Thank you, Commissioner Blunt. Um my only comment would be that it seems like a difficult uh location for this kind of a business, but I would hope that um you know it it is a success. Thank you. If approved. Yes. Uh Commissioner Mallet, I would agree with Commissioner Bl, but I I also think that it's it's a needed um use in that area with all the warehouses. We already have Cumberland Farms. have Dunkin Donuts. Um, so if you grew out of the space and caused traffic, it might not might be a good problem. Um, so that's my comment. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner James. Um, I want to thank you for choosing to try to do your business in Bloomfield. I drive by the site often and I remember when it was um just an abandoned property and to see it uh now a functioning gas station and the potential addition of um some food

options. I'm really excited about that. Um I would wish that you'd be so successful that you'd be too big uh there'd be too many not enough parking spaces and we could that's an issue we could deal with down the line. But I really wish you much success and um thank you again for choosing Bloomfield. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Bolton. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, listen, I I I think it's a fantastic idea. Um, I I I go to Isaac's a lot, but I don't get any food from the second Isaac's. You won't be going no more. Um, so I know that it's a concept that certainly works. Um, I don't eat meat, so I won't worry. I got something for you. Um, I do my my only concern is still though, you know, the the the parking impact. Um, and uh, I'm sure you're going to be successful. So, I I think these guys will be coming back uh with a revised site plan because I think park is going to be an issue. But I certainly wish you the best if the approved. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay. Uh, Commissioner Marshia Neely. Thank you, Mr. Chair. U, thank you for bringing your business to Bloomfield. I love it when we have new um businesses coming into the town. It means something special. I go by there all the time. And uh the only reason I would say no if I said no is because I'm trying to lose weight and you're going to put weight on me, especially with the word gourmet. Mhm. Um, I just want to say thank you for all of your efforts and if this thing passes, I'll I'll look for something that's vegetarian. Yeah. Thank you, I'mma bring it to you. Okay, Commissioner G. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I I'm excited about your enthusiasm for your your food. Uh, I think this I think having the food at this kind of

convenience store um especially hot food can be a very good thing. Um, I haven't noticed I I I the comment about Isaac's and the the location for Isaac's too, but I don't notice that this much around here, but I do notice in the summer when I'm traveling, uh, sometimes in Maine and and places like that, you'll go into a convenience store and they will have a section where they have, you know, someone doing hot pizza, not from the box, but the kind of thing you're doing. Um, so I I'm I am supportive of this. Uh, I think the only thing that bothers me about it is that the um, you know, the I'm not too hot on drive-throughs. Uh, I actually sort of hope at the end of the day you and I think what you will get is potentially more business where people call ahead and walk in and walk in and pick pick it up. All right, let me break it down to y'all. Okay. It's not No, I don't make food fast enough to do a drive-thru. Drive through. The drive-thru is basically used for pickup only, right? No, I understand. It's no order right there. It got to be from the front. Yeah. Cuz I don't make food. It's just people in the parking then it' be too much. So, it was just going to be a drive-thru only take out. That's it. Everybody just keep moving. Get your food and go. How you doing? Just go. That's it. So, there's no ordering right there. You got everything got to be from the phone or online order. Okay. Okay. Oh, you can't order. You can't So, so if if someone comes in I know this is a question, I guess, but uh so if someone comes into the convenience store and says, "Oh, I really I see your sign. I really want a Philly cheese steak." They can eat. Well, they can't eat. They can. We're not allowed, but they can order. They can order and just wait. They go. Yeah. Okay. Okay. They pumping their gas. Food be done by the time they pump their gas. Okay. Anyway, I think this will be a great I think this will be a good

addition. I've seen this kind of thing before. Uh but again, just as a general principle, uh I think that drive-throughs are not what we want to encourage. Um I realize you're doing something different. It's just a pickup option. Thank you. Okay. And my comments, I'll apologize. Uh I've never been in Isaac's 2. I've only been in Isaac's in the center of town. So, I had no idea that uh that they have a uh hot food service like that. So, with that said, um I'm in full support of it. Um and I wish you the best. Thank you. And thanks for coming to Bloomfield. Thank you. Was there anything else you'd like to say before we make a motion to close this public hearing? Oh, no. I just want to say thank you. Okay. With that said, the chair entertain a motion to close the public hearing. So moved. Second. It's been moved and second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying I. I. I. Oppos. Extension. Chair votes sign. This time the chair entertain a motion on the application. Mr. Chair, I motion to approve the request by Amin B. Lee for a special permit use to allow a fast food restaurant within an existing gasoline service convenience store under section 4.B.C.4.b. Any other uses provided is not prohibited in section 1.3.A A at 1301 Blue Hills Avenue with the following conditions as listed in town staff report dated dated dated uh no it's not dated is today's date

dated April 24th 2024 25 2025 Seconded. Okay. Is uh there second? Second. Uh Commissioner Bolton seconded. Mr. Chairman, if we could just um clarify in point number three that the hours are 6:00 to 10, 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. And I would um request that um the maker of the motion take a a friendly amendment from a member of the commission that would add item number 12 that specifies that food trucks would not be parked on site. Thank you. Okay, Mr. Chair, I will make a friendly amendment that food trucks not be specified on the Can I say something? Thank you. You accept that amendment? I will accept. Why is my food truck keep being mentioned? My food just just letting you know that that's where I'm starting from and I'm going my food has nothing to do with this. No, we're just We need that in our our You won't have a problem though. application. Nervous. Food choice had nothing to do with it. Okay. Uh that friendly that friendly amendment was accepted. All those in favor of accepting the friendly amen amendment signify by saying I I oppose. Abstension. Chair votes I. Mr. Chairman, another interruption. Um Commissioner Blint is the sitting alternate this evening. Uh Mr. Chair, I think Mr. Peters has joined us. So, we don't need an alternate. Okay. Yep. Like Leon's here. Then you would have a you'd have a full full house and um you would not need an alternate.

Thank you. Okay. I'm not sure if he was even here for the whole application. I just kind of seen his face. He didn't participate in it. So, we'll we'll get one. I I I if we're going to put it on the on the record, I've abstained because I didn't hear the full application. Right. Thank you. Next item on the agenda is also a public hearing. I would ask the secretary if she would read the legal notice. Notice is hereby given that the town plan and zoning commission will hold a regular on th a regular meeting on Thursday, April 24th, 2025 at 7 PM hybrid meeting in person at 800 Bloomfield Avenue council chambers room and virtually via Zoom to consider the following 95 Rescue Lane aka 30 Megan's Court per town assessor's card special permit and site plan application for per sections 4. C 4.4.C. C.4.B and 4.4.C.4.U of the town of Bloomfield zoning regulations to allow a construction excavation establishment with outdoor storage of materials and equipment in the I2 zoning district applicant and owner Orlando Excavations, Inc. Okay. Thank you. So, anyone here from that application? Please take the podium. State your name and address, please.

Good evening. My name is Patrick Ruiz. Um uh the address of the project is 95 Rescue Lane and I would like to tell you a little bit about um our company. It's our family company. uh Orlando Excavations who is the applicant and that um we've been working in town for over 20 years 23 25 years um the company has been incorporated um in 1994 over 30 years our main office is in chap currently uh all our office shop everything is uh located over there what was it chapling our office, main office, chap. Chaplain. Yes. North Windam towards Rhode Island, Route Six. So, it's about 45 minutes from here. Uh but for some reason, all our projects uh has been in Bloomfield, West Harford, Farmington, all in this area for many many years. We don't do much work in that area for I would say yes over 25 years. Um, we've been working directly for the town, uh, several clients in Bloomfield, um, South Windsor, West Hart for Farmington, and we've been finding that having a secondary place in Bloomfield is good uh, for our daily operations. So we came across this property um which we we knew the owner previously and we did some work for him and we were able to secure uh this location. Our intention basically is to have a place where we can storage

equipment, storage material and be able to go there um not every day but every other day uh get the materials that we need, go to the the job site, come back. We actually we we are working currently like probably less than a mile away. Uh we are doing a project um save a tree uh and again for some reason always bloom k is you know our home since many years. So the idea is having a place where we can go uh storage top soil storage gravel um pipes construction materials and being able to access it during the day. Use whatever we need whatever we don't need retrieve it and so on. uh we aren't planning to make any kind of business. We are not planning to have selling anything from there. We are just um storage for our own uh uh for our own purpose. Um, I will say I've been asked about traffic. Um, and if I can come out with how many trucks or what kind of traffic we're going to have, I will say I wouldn't tell you exactly what how many trucks or how many uh vehicles going to be going in going out because we really are it'll depending how many projects we have in the area. I would say in a week, maybe three days a week, we're gonna have traffic coming in. Maybe one day a week is going to be 10 trucks coming in, coming out. Maybe the rest of the week is not going to be any traffic going in, going out. We did try to minimize the

area. The area is about um 18 acres. Um after trying to consider uh what we need for our operations, we really don't need much. We are again this is a family company it's very small um small medium side um we try to minimize we are using out of 18 acres we are using uh five acres uh with a driveway and honestly we don't need a building we know we going to have to um get the structure so we are uh choosing to utilize a 30x30 garage basically for just fittings, pipes, um any kind of small materials. But again, we are not looking to have their um bathroom. We are not looking to have anybody working full-time. So, it's going to be just somebody. If I send a truck, uh if we are working in the area and I send a truck, I have some leftover. Let's put it for example, Tapsoy. I send it. Okay. Put it in there. and then dump it and then maybe send somebody to go and stockpile the materials and call it a day. That's that's a typical day for us. Uh another day we need some top soil that we storage there for another place. I send the truck the truckloaded and that goes back to the site. Um we do I've been asked to uh what kind of work in related to contamination if we do remediation we do not do any kind of remediation we just basically we're a site uh work u company we do paving uh we do concrete um but mostly is earth

work and utility work we do sewers water lines um and earth work you catching fields and stuff like that. Uh the equipment that will be storage on site will be an excavator, doer, um truck, um nothing really major. Um and and again, it's not not as many piece of equipment that we have, but everything will be there. Maybe one day I need an excavator in West Harford. Uh and I don't have a place in West Harford. is small. Well, I just storage there in the next day so I don't have to bring everybody from Chaplain which is an hour away from here. Um in the future I probably will explore um establishing an office here because again mostly all are uh businesses in this area but it's not right now is and it's no at this point. So, um I don't know uh if I can explain a little bit more. Just let me know. Okay. Thank you. Uh Jonathan, thank you, Mr. Chair. Um again, we've been working with this applicant. We um staff has a number of issues with this proposal. Um first of all um outdoor outdoor storage is not a permitted principal use uh in this zone and since there is no it is as a permitted accessory use uh but there is no other structure or anything proposed at this time on the building. So this has to be viewed as

the principal use of the property at this time. Um and so it would be our opinion that um if the uh applicant wants to move forward with outdoor storage as a principal use, they should first go to the zoning board of appeals to seek a variance um for that permit. That aside, um there are a lot of um un um I'm trying to think of the right word. Um unknown is is not necessarily but we do not have clarity um on the the maximum amount of materials that is going to be stored there, the height of the materials that are going to be stored there, the types of equipment and machinery that wants to be stored there. uh noise and mitigation, soil, erosion control, and all that. That is still outstanding as is the town engineers report because he was unable to get his report because he was out of town um in time. So that um in general, the commission the staff does not support the application as submitted. Uh if the commission wishes to move forward, we would first recommend that you continue the public hearing until we provide an opportunity for the town engineer to submit his report. And if you were to move forward in in in your decision and wisdom to approve this application, we have a number of conditions we set forward that would that would at least pro require him to provide to the staff. um um noise and dust control, height of materials, type of equipment that was going to be there. That all is listed on page three of the staff report. Uh but um in short, the staff has does not support the application as presented.

Thank you. This time we'll take any questions from the audience related to this application. Bay of Topel 42 Brighton Parkway. Um, if this application were approved, would the business be able to expand beyond what they are currently talking about without further getting further approval from this body? Jonathan, I'm sorry. I was having a conversation with one of you. If you could repeat the question, my apology. If this application were approved, which I'm not in favor of it, but I'll talk about that later. If this application were approved, would the the business be able to um expand beyond their the storage space that they've proposed without additional approval from this body? They would have to be they'd have to get additional approval from Okay. So, it would be limited to the five acres. That's correct. I see. And and and the location of the piles and stoages, storage material and equipment would also have to be specified. Okay. So that we can so that there's ability for us to do compliance on site. Thank you. Any further questions? Okay, at this time we'll take questions from the commission. Uh we'll start with Commissioner Peters. You have any questions? So the question I would have that stood out to me, um have you sought out to do a traffic study on what this would

impact? Because that's I think that's what the overarching thing that popped out to me. Um there's a lot of assumptions being made, but I don't feel like it we we haven't much clarity on how this would impact um incoming traffic into the community. So, have you attempted to get a official traffic study done? We did we didn't feel the need at this time. We can explore that if it's needed. Um again we were based uh we are right next to um another three four other construction companies and what we are proposing I I can even say to you you know pretty much it's not going to be more than 10 drugs a day because that's what is normal for us. um we can do it but it's basically a triac um a normal triac uh two or three times a day um that I can say you know without no problem but no to the answer to your question we didn't feel the need this is the first times I hear it we do work with other kind of projects with uh traffic styles but we didn't feel the need because again our our operation is not that big it's is you know it's small but I will consider if you feel they need it. Yeah. Uh this would be my only question but yeah I I would I would um you know urge you to do that big or small. I mean it impacts the community in any way and it changes you know the obviously the flow of traffic and and and commuting and stuff like that. So I would I would assume that you would you know figure out how that actually impacts the community and and um in its full you know in the full the full scope

of things. So I would I would urge you to do a traffic study to figure out how that is actually impacting the community. So no other questions for me if I may. And the only uh neighbor in this is a dead end road. The only neighbor that we have is uh Simon Foundation. Um and if it's something that we we we consider it, we will treat this as any other um shop site and you know we work close I work close with Peter Castali all the time and that's one thing that we are and you can ask him anytime we are big in uh sweeping the road if it's something goes to the road tracking pass dust control you know we have the trucks to um apply uh water when it's need to so that kind of things related to traffic. Uh we did consider you know uh keeping dust and stuff to be honest. Again it's a dead end. It's basically just just us but uh again we can we can pursue the road if it's if it's needed. Uh we are fully committed to uh dust control and keeping the road you know safe for neighbors. We we we know that it's important for everyone. Okay. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner O'Brien, any questions? Yeah. Is this an expansion for you or is your relocation from someplace else? Um, yes sir. We we were basically for the last 20 years we were doing the as you might know uh all the snow plowing and maintainance of uh Gopako. later they um decide to sell the property after I think 20 years that we've been working for them and that uh all our places we were storing all the equipment there and what we were doing

in there is basically the operations that that we want to move and just having a very area um over there it was a little smaller for us we were able to to do everything that we want to by doing this you could consider a yes an expansion. But uh the in the way I see it is a way for us to expand the places that we can go because at uh our previous location we were unable to have you know our machines and say okay I send my trailer pick them up go here from there and again when we talking about machines which I know you are worried I can give you detailed list of the equipment that could be there size model uh normal um excavation doers. Um, again, it's not a lot. I can I can provide the list of the question. I guess what the the purpose of my question was is the staff said that they didn't have very much information on what you'd actually store there and I was wondering if you had a storage yard now that we could go look at. Um, yes, you can actually go to my office in Chaplain or uh Linda is familiar and Peter Castali is familiar with my operation or even if you've submitted pictures of what that looks like. Yes, I can do that. I can do that. Definitely I can do that. And it's, if I may, it's uh it's one of our let's see that we we go to a town like Torington that sometimes we do work in Torington. It's like two hours from our office. Uh it's a little less from here. What we normally do sometimes is we get in touch with um either a local um construction company, sometimes a farm and we ask them, you know, can we storage our equipment here? Can you

storage our material? For example, back in 2010 2012, we did this in uh Manchester where we had you know all the equipment there and later on we move it to uh Glastonbury. We We kind of move as the work needs call us. So if we need to go to Leechfield, we go there and we're going to have to locate somebody. It happens that again for some reason all our our home has been you know Bloomfield and South W and this around right now we are working in South Winds or we are working in Bloomfield. So this particular location will make our daily operation better. So by then yes we can consider like a little expansion of the company and size. So when the previous location back in um Copakaco probably we were having an acre. This is five acres. That's why we said it's no way that we're going to be able to use more than five acres. We are being safe with five acres. So our previous operation was an acre. Thank you. Session of Blint. Thank you. I have a couple of questions for the town staff and then one question for the applicant. Yes, ma'am. Jonathan, in the um staff report, your zoning analysis lists um residential and PLR um locations east, south, and west of this parcel. Do we know how many units are located and how close they are to this parcel? We do, but I don't have them in my head.

Is that a lot? Well, there is a condominium complex that is fairly close. Yeah. And there's there's actually a single family home that it may be across the street, but it's the only single family home in that location. But there is residential within the area and then there's commercial light industrial to in the other direction. Okay. Buts. And then also, Jonathan, um the list that you've got on page three, would you consider adding a traffic study to that? Absolutely. Okay. And then my question to you, sir, is um that I believe you have received the staff report. Yes. And on page three of the items listed out to provide information on, are you okay providing all that info? Yes. Um, one of the things that uh I uh been back and forth since day one is um we really don't need the water and sewer connections because again we are not planning to have a bathroom. If that's the case that we need it uh we will install a bathroom. Um but again it's going to be empty but yes I I if that's the case yes. Thank you. Okay, Commissioner Mallette. Um, so there's been a couple questions on on traffic studies. Um, on on average, how many uh trips a day u you can say in and out are you expecting? Okay, let me describe you a normal day for us or an average week. But a normal day for us will be no more than two probably in the morning in a normal day and no more than two or three trucks in the afternoon.

Now if we have a like I have a pile there of 2,000 yards um which they were referring about how many yards of material we going to have. If I have a pile that I been storage of 2,000 yards top soil and I do can come across a project where I need a,000 yards, I will start getting it from the project and maybe I said I have a week but we are flexible. We we can manage that. I'm not going to put a 100 trucks in one day. I can probably do if that's the case, which can be the worst case scenario. Uh, and it hasn't been happening in long time, but uh I'm giving you the worst case scenario. I will have a truck every hour. Okay. Going in in and out every hour. On average, knowing there's some variation, um, on average, that's what I'm saying. Worst case scenario, eight eight hours. Let's put eight trucks in normal day. I would say probably two to four trucks a day and two in the morning, two in the afternoon. That is uh m bringing in material holding a material. I may have a trailer loading equipment and unloading equipment which is the other part of the operation. One is the storage material. The other is storage in liquid which again so on average going into that that you can say six strokes a day but no every day neither but that that would be an average. Okay. Um I I know there was recent traffic studies done for for the buses and um the the other development that is probably diagonal to that. So that may be something uh that is referenced could

be referenced uh buffers. Uh so on the property knowing there are some developments um that was was mentioned what type of screening or barriers on looking at the map it looks like maybe 300 feet from the maybe 3 to 400 feet from the proposed center. um storage areas and and where kind of the circles are here on the map to the the actual property lines. Is there is it naturally wooded? Is it topographically going to screen from the neighbors? Um actually the property is 18 acres but we have our frontage is just 60 ft. We have a 300 feet dryway from the road to the actual 18 acres is three almost 300 feet of dryway that we have to do. Everything is watered as right now. Um I think at some point they um they harvested but uh probably over 20 30 years ago. So basically we are proposing get the driveway in and then we expand about 400 ft to the right and 400 to the back. We are keeping over 200 ft uh of um of buffer to the right. If I'm facing the property to the right it's more to the left and to the back is over 400 ft too. And everything will be wood. So we are not planning to cut more trees than what we need. Uh that's kind of what we minimize the area to right there. Yeah, we kind of minimize the area uh to five acres. Then even that's a little under five. So for that center section, is that baked

into our conditions that they if they were to expand they'd have to come back? It's a given. A given. Okay. All right. So there's the buffer. Then the the other question would be on on our regs themselves. I I think it it was mentioned and I'm I'm pretty sure we have used and and we run into this situation occasionally especially in the industrial zones the uh what is it the any other use not pro prohibited and then the uses not nothing that is not ex explicitly allowed. So, we have this I'm not sure if that's something as far as our regs that we can clarify because I think in the past we've kind of just defaulted to we have the discretion for any other uses not explicitly prohibited. You do we didn't think it applied in this situation because of the it's a primary use versus an accessory use. It's it's it's an permitted accessory use. So it is defined as a permitted accessory use and it is a permitted primary use in other zones but not in this and but not in this zone and we are interpreting it at this point to be a principal use and therefore we think that if they wanted they would need to go the variance route through the zoning board of appeals that that the uh clause you're speaking to commissioner would not apply in this particular situation. That's not to say that the commission can disagree with the staff. Obviously, ultimately the decision um rests in your um in your in your hands. Okay. Um and and I could see two routes, right? The the variance

um which is never the ideal option. the the other option would be the you know an amendment um to actually clarify that language whether it's primary or secondary uh I know um I I think approvals for a similar site there was a building and that's what they kind of founded the principal use on versus here to to the staff's um you know research and review that there there is No principal use. U those are my questions for clarification. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Commissioner James. Um yeah, I I guess I wanted to clarify maybe town staff. What's the five? It's five acres you're proposing to use of the 18 acres. And on that five acres now, what is what's there? Just nothing. Trees. It's just trees. Just trees. It's in the area. It's partially clearly in the area. Partially clear probably an an acre is clearly cut, you know. It's is it's is there an existing driveway, dirt driveway. Uh it's overgrown, but it's it's an existing driveway dirt and a little probably half an acre or so clear in the middle. Okay. Um I won't I won't steal anybody's thunder on the commission, but um I know trees are very important, so I'm curious Um, are you aware that there is um like in cutting any trees? Well, I guess you would minimize you you're saying you're going to minimize any I I brought my daughter with me tonight and that she's vegan uh you know trees and uh my wife the same and uh this is uh something that we always discuss

because every time we go to a site um and it's it's a little bit the the the price to pay for sometimes uh develop something And I'm fully aware and that was one of the reasons that we tried to minimize and we went to five fres to be honest even in those five fres we are not using the five figures we are using a lot less because the detention pond is incorporated in those five figures I think that area is probably three and a half acres which already is the actual area where we're going to be um uh stockpiling and actually it is already three times larger than what we had in on. So to the question if we are planning to expand or it's more than enough again for us and again this is a family company. We do what we you know just to keep going. It's no big plans to keep we just went a little safe. So if we have a little bit more room we can put a little bit more room. We were talking to Linda and she was concerned about the how tall the piles would be which again that was one of the reasons that we went a little bit wider so we can put the piles a little not as high. Um and yes we will minimize if we get approved you know the amount of trees we I I don't like it personally. I don't cut it at home. I I feel it and that u but sometimes is what it means. Um there is project where we cut some trees and then we replant you know as much as we can in another areas. Okay. I guess I I feel I I know what you Okay. Thank you. Um and uh just to clarify also you be doing any pickups drop offs during the day like what hours

or what time frame would that be? Um for our own things um we start at 7 and again we are very mindful of uh the working hours. We want to start before 7 and 5 will be the latest but normally you know our operation hours is 7 to 3:30 uh normal construction time but thank you very much. You're very welcome. Thank you Commissioner Bolton. Thank you Mr. Chair. Um, I guess not withstanding some of these procedural issues here with uh the permitted use and versus the accessory use and the potential need to go back to ZBA. I clearly understand what you're doing and and what the need is. The bulk of your business is is probably what utility um mostly site work, mostly earth work. That's what we like to do, you know. So obviously, but yes, you did it. If it's if it's site work and you you have tops fill or processed or or whatever you're hauling in. Exactly. You have it on site most of the time. So the majority of the material Exactly. But age site. Exactly. For example, if I have a site, you know, I have to strip soil and if you put a parking lot, it's going to be excess top soil, which is the most commonly, you know, material. So I take that to the yard and I going to need it in another project. So, I get it. Go. I I I certainly get it. But it it seems to me it is going to be in fact minimal storage because the bulk of you're obviously you're making money off the top soil that you're selling back to. It's no such a scene as making money, but when you have it, nobody wants it. That's So, it seems to me that because the bulk of your work um is going to be art work, material is going to be staged on those particular projects. And so this site utilizing you know 5 whatever acres it is it's going to be minimal.

Um obviously if you're moving any contaminated or hazardous material we don't do it nor could you by law remove we don't do the uh the uh site where hazardous material is restored. Um, I think that's that's all the question I have because there's so much that's been requested that you haven't submitted that it's going to be tough to move forward. But, uh, thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Marshall Neely. Thank you. I Excuse me. Sorry about that. I I was going to inquire about the uh contamination and dust control and so forth and so on, but all of this has been addressed and and we know what the uh town's report is 1 through 7. So with that being said and with um my colleagues already asking some of the questions that I had, uh I don't have anything else to add to that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you uh Commissioner G. Great. Thank you, Mr. chair. Um I guess I'm going to take a little bit different attack. We've heard a bunch of stuff about some of the technical the technical aspects which I think are somewhat irrelevant. Um when I guess biggest question, how do you think this benefits Bloomfield? Well, I would say that for again many years I've been in town and I've been able to sometimes uh been able to um share some of our work and because our project our projects are in town. If a neighbor many times comes and he says, "Okay, I need some dirt. I need some top

soil. I need this. I need some gravel. We more than once uh we say just go take whatever you need. And that was our approach and uh in Kopako our stockpiles material were there our salt uh was there uh because we were doing a snow uh and every neighbor that uh came to us every time they saw me or saw somebody just take it whatever you need. We try uh to be as helpful as we can. Um being in town uh make make our uh prices sometimes if I going to work uh for the town or I going to work for a neighbor be lower. Um and basically I think uh that will be the main contribution on being able to have the access to the material somebody needed they can have it many times I send IR here I am there many many times so you when town town staff you know it's very clear that this is a primary use you want to use this space for storage and did when is your reaction when town staff tells you that the zone zoning laws do not allow this to be a primary use in this in this zone. Um well, this is something that we've been talking if I give you a little bit background in this project. Um even in the beginning when we knew that Copakaco was being sold, our material was growing and that uh we I got a I was approached by Linda says, "Listen, the material is getting a lot. we got to look another location and the town helped me to get the list of properties that they were for sale at that time and I was able to secure this uh

property even before we we starting with application. So we got the property before we knew what we can do with intention to do this because it was an I2 zone. But when I start the whole process and I didn't know this um that I needed it to have an structure, I said okay I I can put an structure there and the problem is not a structure because at some point I would have I would love to have a building well with an office maybe a shop garage because it's our main area. Bloomfield again is where is the center of all our operations. The problem and I even started with a preliminary design for a building. The problem was when I start um finding you know all the utilities and the fees what I need to do to acquire that and I really don't need the building right now. What I do need is the land. So, I kind of abandon the idea of putting the building if I can do a garage where I can use um again I don't need a main office right now. What I need is to move my operation, you know, from what it was here. Um I won't say that I'm I'm surprised because we've been talking along all the time. I was hoping to have a little bit the opportunity and that have a little bit the time because what I need is time to catch up some breath start, you know, with the with the deposit the storage area and then with a little bit of time I can start working in an actual building. As of right now, what I can do uh is a garage to have an structure in place. I can put a bathroom in there if it's need to per code but if you are in my position the only thing that I need

right now is a place where storage my material and I understand you know the code is the code but and I'm willing to do what is need to like have a little bit the time to you know touch my breath. So when you when when you went to the town and town staff um gave you a list of properties, they were aware that you were currently storing your storing your materials at Kopakaco. So I assume that a lot of the area you were storing your materials on was already concrete. I've I've been back behind Lowe's and seen piles of material. I assume that that was us. That's the same operation that we want to do here, but now because it was a concern in how high the piles were, we just made it a little wider so we can So, um, did they suggest any other, um, developed land, uh, concrete places where you could potentially store your materials, not on, uh, undeveloped land where trees would need to be cut down and that kind of thing. We were going back and forth with everything but this location was the the one that I really you know uh kind of su us because it is in an area where it's another construction companies and even so the neighbors and the apartments uh and we are very aware that they are there actually we did uh back in 2008 2009 uh I actually work uh in the field street we developed those two subdivisions in the back so we we did the side work there and Malori Ridge. Uh actually we were going to do that. This this was a a land that it was approved for six lots commercial lots back in 2009 2010. Uh and you know we were involved in that project at that time beating and trying to get that going for

for for Mark. So I was aware of this project and uh I knew the owner. That's kind of what it made it all this a little bit more uh convenience and I knew he had this for many years and uh we were able to work with him uh and that's kind of what suit us. Um thanks. I don't have any more questions. I'll have some comments. Great. Yes, sir. Hey, thank you. Um Commissioner Aina, I see you joined us. Uh, I'm not sure how much of this you heard whether or not you have a question in regards to this application or not. Um, I don't have a question at this time, Mr. President. Thank you. Please. All righty. And and I I don't have any questions. I'm going to reserve mine. I think there's like seven or eight outstanding things that you need to bring back here before we can even proceed with this. and and you may even have to go before the zoning board of appeals uh before you come back. So, I'm just going to reserve mine so we can go to comments. M excuse me, Commissioner James, I'm going to make a motion to table this uh public hearing until uh our next meeting. continue this public hearing until we um receive the engineers report and the applicant has a chance to respond to some of the um planning department's um comments or requests. Okay. Is there a second? I'll second that. Okay. It's been moved and second. Any further discussion regarding tableabling this until our May 29th meeting continuing? I'm sorry. When is it? It's May 27. Oh, okay. The week before. Yeah. Okay.

Is there any further discussions on continuing this application to or May 22nd? Mr. Chairman, motion to table is not debatable. Okay. Then continue. Thank you. Oh, well that's what I was doing. Okay. Uh, all those in favor of continuing this hearing until our May 22nd signify by saying I I I oppose abstension. Chair vai. Mr. Chair, may I just add one thing to to town staff? Is it clear to the applicant that he may have to go to the zoning board of appeals first before he comes back here? Um the commission did not act on that particular situation. We can if it's a consensus of the commission that they believe the proposal is a principal use and a principal use is not permitted then yes the applicant would need to go to the zoning board of appeals. you did not take a action on that particular piece. But if the if if I get a sense of the commission that that's your consensus, then we will inform and meet with the applicant as soon as possible and inform that that if he needs wants to move forward, he's first going to have to seek a use variance. Well, I certainly with the assessment of the printed use. So, could you meet with him? Absolutely. Okay, great. Okay, we're continuing that until May 22nd. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. We might just want to explain to members of the audience if you were here to comment on the application that you'll have that opportunity at the next meeting. The commission did not close

the hearing, but they have just continue it till the next meeting uh to allow the applicant uh time to um to respond to a number of the issues that were raised this evening. Okay. Thank you. Next item on the agenda is also a public hearing. I would ask the secretary if she would read the legal notice. Notice is hereby given that the town planning and zoning commission will hold a regular meeting on Thursday, April 24th, 2025 at 7 p.m. hybrid meeting in person at 800 Bloomfield Avenue Council Chambers room and virtually via Zoom to consider the following regulation amendment application per section 9.6 of the Town of Bloomfield zoning regulations to amend section 4.5. D.3.G to allow drive-in windows in the GWD zoning district applicant 925 Blue Hills LLC. Thank you. Is there anyone here for that application? My name is John Kushman. Um, my address is 359 Carriage Drive, Glastonbury, Connecticut. I work with Muhammad Adnan. Thank you. My name is Muhammad Adnan. Uh, my home address 69 Glenn Eagles Drive, Southernington, Connecticut. Uh, we own a piece of the property at 925 Blue Hills Avenue, Bloomfield, Connecticut. Okay, you can proceed. And the request here tonight is to allow us to enhance the building by uh adding a drive-thru in the back. I do have a

drawing of how the stacking and the drive-thru would go. Would you should I put it here or pass it around? Sure. Um M Mr. Chair, does is Linda have that on the computer? Uh I that shown but I could definitely give you a GIS but that was not shared by the applic. Oh, okay. Point of order. We'd be happy to do it. Point of order. Sure. Yep. Yeah. Um I think what all we're looking at is a text amendment. We're not looking at any plans for any buildings or any any any sites. This is a text amendment to a zoning regulation we have for a specific zone. So I frankly I don't think it's relevant to be looking at a business operation. They're asking for a general a general zoning a general change in our zoning regulations or everything. This is not a spot zoning issue. Okay. Right. Right. So, is there anything you want to say regarding that without showing us the site plan? No, it's it's the gentleman's trick. We're just looking for an enhancement to the building by adding a drive-through window. Okay. Jonathan, Mr. Chairman, the uh Gateway District um a relatively new district. It was um purposely um structured um to limit drive-ins. Uh there are obviously a few that are grandfathered in. The staff's belief is that um they ought that the uh district ought to remain the way it is and um we do not support opening it up to drive-in windows and drive-throughs. We think that would begin to um uh inappropriately affect uh the purpose and use of the gateway district. We'd

also note for the commission's information that you will need to continue this public hearing uh to allow uh us to receive for the commission to receive uh any report that the capital region council of governments may want to submit by statute. This was referred to them. Um and they have uh 35 days to respond. that time has not expired yet and we have not yet received a report from the capital region council of governments. Um so that um it will be necessary for you to continue this hearing um once the deliberations this evening are completed but in short the staff does not support this proposed amendment. Thank you. Um are there any questions from anyone in the audience regarding this application? Okay. Okay. Here I am again. Paula Jackson, 57 Brooklyn Avenue, Bloomfield, Connecticut. What are they planning on building over there besides just a drive-thru? What are they selling? Just adding a drive through for what? In the existing gas station for what? Pick up like, you know, pick up what we Mr. chair this am irrelevant am I missing something what do you if you're going to have a drive-thru what are we this is not a site plan she she just has a question I'm going to allow her to answer that question what are we driving through what is it I'm I'm not supposed to do that no I just want to know what do we pick it up if we drive through there coffee donuts um bagels whatever that is ordered at the point of ordering And then you But isn't this where Isaac Bagel is right now? They don't have a drive-thru. I know, but you plan on

taking Isaac Bagel to build the drive-thru to get rid of stuff that they mean to sell stuff that they're already selling. No, we're not doing that. We're just adding the drivethru. And it's much better for the customer. It's more convenient. That's Oh, I'm one of their customers. So, I just wanted to know that because I'm one of their customers and I don't need a drive-thru. I just order what I need. I go pick it up and I go. So, a dry suit for me was not necessary. Okay. Uh, state your name and address, please. My name is Kendall Andrews, 20 I Road, Bloomville, Connecticut. Um, my question is, um, I see you talk about putting a drive-thru in, but, um, also in that area, the traffic is already crazy coming out of the coming out of the gas station, the car wash, Isaac Bagel. I think that would be terrible. And like I said, um, I go to Isaac's, been there for eight years, one of the best breakfast places in in Bloomfield. Um, Ellie is one of the greatest people I know. You know what I'm saying? She treat us with love and a drive-thru. Makes no sense. The traffic is is is crazy already. But the gas station, the car wash, subways, Isaac's. At least we can sit in Isaac's, eat, or if you get your take out, then you can take your time going out. But a drive-thru going there would be a disaster. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Are there any further questions regarding this application? If not, we'll start with the commission and we'll start with uh Commissioner Goff. Thank Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I guess I just have one again.

This this isn't really any questions about your plans at all. It's really a question of the Gateway District and why why we zoned it that, you know, why the town zoned it. uh I was not on the commission at the time why the town zoned it that way to begin with. So my question to you is when you came up with the idea that you wanted to make a text amendment to uh the current regulations um how many people in the neighborhood did you talk to get to sign a petition um get agreement that they wanted a drive-through window? We didn't survey the neighborhood. You did not. We made the application. We have to speak it to Miss Anna. Okay. Um, so I guess a question for staff is what did you advise them when they made the comment that they wanted to change this change to to bring this forward. I did not speak with them directly, but my assistant did, so I'll let her respond. record. So, Linda, excuse me, Linda, do you mind? Okay. Lauraniano, assistant director, building and land use. Um, so I was approached um by the applicant um actually with my the zoning enforcement officer, Alex Samalot. Um the applicant wanted to uh just come in and see if he can have a drive-through restaurant at that location. uh to relocate uh the conversation was he wanted to relocate a Dunkin Donuts that existed two buildings down on a standalone to be relocated to um the Isaac's Bagel area. Um and going through the regulations, we informed

them that drive-in windows are not a permitted use in the district. that when the regulations came into effect, the new ones in 2008, 2009, they did away with drive-in windows. So any other drive-in windows in the gateway district were grandfathered in. Um, a use variance is really hard to get. There is no legal hardship. Um, we don't give legal advice to staff, but we just give them what the regulation states. Um and we just advise them that, you know, staff wouldn't support um a use variance because there really isn't a legal hardship here. Um you know, they it's fully occupied. There's restaurant a restaurant there. Um so, uh the only other advice was, you know, that they could apply uh they wanted to know what options they had. Well, you can apply for a tax amendment, you know, if the commission finds that drive-in windows are appropriate. Um, that would be the only option uh for him to proceed with with what he wanted to do. Um, it wasn't a guarantee, but it was an application where they would state, you know, their purpose and um, and if the commission found that drive-in windows were appropriate in the gateway district, it's up to the commission um, to make that determination. So, that was the advice that he was given. Thank you. Thank you. Um, I guess I have one one other question for staff. Maybe it's a little bit forreaching and I think I know the answer, but let me just confirm it. Um, so the Gateway District when it was established, the town already had some kind of structure that drive-in drive-thru windows and stuff were allowed. So when we passed the gateway district, we simply prohibited future ones, right?

So we could I mean the town could um if we if this commission determined since you know part of our plan of conservation development is we want to get away from we want walkability, we want different modes of transportation, we would like to tame the automobile um that we could change our regulations in all zones to no longer allow drive-throughs. Obviously there would be a lot grandfathered in, but that would be we would have that option going forward. Is that correct? Yes, you would. You you have full discretion in terms of um how you want to um promulgate your regulations. Great. Thank you. No more questions. Mr. Chair, I just add one other thing. Commission should also be aware that a um significant street gate project continuing the work that um has been done on on Blue Hills in the Hartford area is now just commencing uh in the uh in the Blue Hills and that section. It's a little south of there, but on Blue Hills Avenue, the contract has been awarded and that work will begin. So, there's a streetscape project that's going to be done. And uh and u another reason why the staff was not particularly supportive of any additional drive-thru, right? And that streetscape project, I was on council when that was brought up. And that streetscape project is to make that area walkable, pedestrian friendly, etc. So, thank you. Hey, thank you, Commissioner Marshall Neely. Thank you, sir. Uh I I'm I'm wondering why would we want to why would you want to um do that? We with the Dunkin Donuts, you can go into Dunkin Donuts. You can drive through over there on Blue Hills Avenue. You can sit down in there if you like to on Blue Hills Avenue. I personally don't see a need to uh move that from that location. and and then you you have

subway and you have um you know other things going on. And I do agree that the traffic coming out over there when you go to the car wash or gas station or even to look at some cars that are for sale over there um is just so congested. And then when uh you know I I'm thinking about the streetscape project, there's going to be um some other issues that we have to take into consideration. Personally, I I kind of have a problem with drive-throughs myself, and I um when looking at everything would like it to stay the way it is, but could you explain to me what the reason is for your wanting to move that? Strictly because customers love drive-thru windows for donuts and coffee. It it's proven all over again at all the establishments. Starbucks now never did it before. Now they have drive-thrus. It's it's a customer convenience aspect and u we have like we have a 20 sites not and we have a drunken donuts on other sites and it's looked like it's more convenient for the customers to come in and much easier like they could going inside and making you know uh it's much easier more convenient for the customers to have a drive-thru. Okay. So you're you're you're explaining that I understand what you're saying. I think about the emissions from the cars that are going to the drive-thru and they're sitting there and you have, you know, the fumes coming out. I I think about that. And then I al also think about someone like me who likes to walk and I don't like to walk around when there's walk around cars when cars are waiting in line. I also feel as though it's healthier for people to get out of their cars. You know honestly that's why I know he's not we want to show the way the layout is is completely

nobody going to be have there they can still is the same thing we have a piece of land which is not usable they drive around that's the where we're going to put the drive-thru over there but once again no this is not a site application this totally completely understand but I I do understand we're kind of getting too much into Sure I end this thing type application with the questions. So if we can kind of move on to just the text amendment and focus on Okay, then I I'll end it right there. Sure. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Bolton. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have no questions for the applicant. Commissioner James, um I I hear you when you say um that a drive-thru is more convenient for customers, but can you describe to me how this would be better for our town, for our community? Simply people have to get to work on time. They like to get through, get a cup of coffee, and go in every town. It would be more accommodating to customers. Um, and I guess this particular area, um, there are some grandfather drive-thru areas. Um, you know, we talk a lot in our, um, commission about like places like Cottage Grove Road where there are a number of drive-throughs. Um, can you just tell me why we should add such a reg such a amendment for this area when there are existing areas with drive-throughs simply to be able to compete with those existing drive-throughs? Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Mlette,

two questions. Um, do we know how many grandfathered I I'm just thinking KFC and Duncan in the Gateway District. Is it just two or are there more than that? Am I asking be be about a half a dozen? Oh, okay. So, I'm I'm a little under counting. Okay. And and then the second is for the applicant. Normally, when there's a text amendment, I think there's some consideration for our conservation and development. Was was there any um alignment or or uh reasons that that would support putting changing this amendment to include drive-through windows in a special district or you know our gateway district? I really can't address being able to change the zoning in the gateway district. We're just looking for it at the site that we have there and with the flow and everything and the convenience, we think it'll be accommodating to the customers. Okay. Thank you. No further questions. Okay. Yeah, I think Linda gave us a good background on what they're trying to do and the whole purpose of the text amendment. So, um, Commissioner Blunt, any questions regarding the amendment? uh one for the applicant and one for the town staff. Do you believe that if we change the uh regs and include drive-in windows, would it increase traffic to that intersection? It may increase it some. Um people already drive on there for coffee and and gasoline and uh there's the existing customers would be more convenience by being able to just drive through. We don't think it

would increase traffic that much more on the site. Okay. And for the town staff, um is it that intersection um where the most traffic accidents occur in town? It's one of the highest. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Um, Commissioner Peters, any questions? Uh, no questions for me. Thank you. Okay. Uh, did Commissioner Aina drop off? Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, I'm sorry. Uh, Commissioner O'Brien. No, I I don't really have any questions of the applicant. I I just wanted to reiterate um what had been said, which is generally you do a text amendment um to implement something that you have in your plan of conservation and development. And um the applicant I haven't heard say what would what's in the plan of conservation and development that would support such a text amendment which would be a prerequisite. Um and uh the consideration has to be from the town line all the way up through in terms of not any one particular site. So, uh, if the gateway district in the, um, existing plan is going to remain in the new town plan, then I would not think that it would be something that you would want to contemplate. Thank you. Um, and I don't have any questions regarding this, so we can go to comments. Any comments from the audience regarding this application? State your name and address, please.

My name is Sean Shelton and I live at 57 Brooklyn Avenue in Bloomfield. Um, I would like to say that adding the Dunkin Donuts to that location would be a horrible idea because Okay, before before you go there, this is really not about adding the Dunkin Donuts. This is strictly regarding whether or not we want to change the text amendment to add. Actually, we shouldn't even know what it is. Okay, go ahead. Um because already like there's traffic all over and when you drive past Dunkin Donuts you could see that there's a long line and adding it to that location the cars will be all around the building and knocking a small business business is just not okay and yeah that's thank Yeah. Uh, how you doing? Uh, I'm Jeffrey Rodriguez. Uh, 15 Boys and Drive. Um, I'm the head chef at Isaac's 2. My mother Ellie owns it. We've been there for almost nine years now. Um, on the whole drive-thru, not even talking about anything else. Miss, uh, Speeder, Russell Speeder's car wash, just moved in. Talking to them, their targets to do a thousand cars a day out of there. the old car wash, not even close to that. So that intersection, he got hit twice in this in our like eight years being there. We've seen more accidents there. So just to get any sort

of more flow through there, our parking lot is packed because we work hard. We, you know, have support here. I see everyone here. Talk about convenience for the drive-thru. There's not much more convenience than seeing someone's car pull up and having their meal ready because we know who you are. We're in the community. We're trying to stay in the community. So, adding anything else, our parking lot's full. We got landscapers coming in with trailers. They have one way out. That's the back way. That's where the drive-thru is supposed to go. They come out to the street. You're not taking a left in either one of those gas station lots. You're pulling out to the car wash street and you're spending, you know, a good 3 minutes there at 4:00 in rush hour trying to get out. So, I don't see how any sort of flow there would make anything more convenient than what's there. Um, and you know, we just we want to continue supporting the community and something like that's going to knock us out and we've been there a long time to start at zero again. So, that's all I have to say. Right. Thank you. Uh, any further comments? Anyone from the audience? Okay, we'll start with the commission. Commissioner Peters, any comments regarding this? Sorry, I thought I was going to unmute myself. Um, my only comment to this is I've been hearing from the applicant that this would be good for the customer, but I have not heard from the applicant that this would be from the community. And the reason why this should be differentiated is because uh drive-throughs, yes, it it encourages fast service, but it doesn't um encourage community engagement. Um I I can speak for myself. I don't typically frequent places or establishments that have um drive-throughs just because they're

in the community. I go there because I can get something fast and leave. So that in itself will obviously exacerbate what we've all been talking about um traffic and potential for accidents and that's it is what it is. So the comm community the customer base does not necessarily reflect the community and I don't see anything that encourages community growth which is what we're supposed to be promoting. So for me, this doesn't look like an ideal proposal for a change because it does not build a stronger communal bond. It just uh encourages more revenue for that particular establishment, whatever the establishment shall be. And that would be that's that's all I have to say about this. All right. Thank you. Uh Commissioner, I see you're back. Um did you hear this application enough to comment on it? Not at this time, Mr. Chairman. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner O'Brien, any comments? No, sir. Commissioner Blunt. Um my only comment would be that this doesn't seem like a benefit to the area considering traffic and the um number of accidents that occur and that less than a mile away there's already a coffee establishment that is a standalone drive-thru. Thank you, Commissioner Mlette. Um, I think it's going to be hard to support a blanket. Um, changing from excluding to including. Um, I could see there might be a lot or something that was large

enough and far enough away um, in the entire district that it might work, but now we're really carving out and being very specific. I would not be in support of of uh just a a blanket going to including drive-through windows and gateway district. Thank you, Commissioner James. Um I speak as a resident of the area. I live very close to Blue Hills Avenue and um I I just feel strongly about it being somewhere that I can walk, run, bike. Um, and it currently doesn't exist in that way. And I'm very excited to hear that there's some street work going on over there in that, especially in the intersection because, um, it's very difficult to navigate if you're not in a car. Um, and so just the idea of making it easier for people to remain in their cars, not engage in the neighborhood, which is a neighborhood that I live in, that um, I believe, you know, me and my neighbors would love to be able to move around and feel comfortable um, and actually reduce traffic if if that's even possible um, in the area. So uh I do feel strongly that um for anyone remaining looking to any business is looking to remain competitive there's certainly ways to do so. Um I don't think increasing um the number of drive-ins in on Blue Hills is the necessary is necessarily the answer for that. Um there's a lot of businesses and a lot of people that frequent that area and um I think you'd be surprised by people's willingness to commit to um establishments that don't have drive-ins. So um it's not an end all beall. It's not a perfect solution for anything to have a drive-in and um I think we can figure out a way to uh promote businesses in the area without

um without drive-ins frankly. So, thank you. Okay, Commissioner Bolton. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I don't have a problem with uh drive-ins um driving windows, I should say. Um, but you know, we we as a commission, and this was before my time on the commission, um, that zone, um, that gateway zone was established for for for a reason, and, um, I I certainly support the other, uh, commissioners here. We're we're trying to foster, you know, community, right? And um certainly making areas more walkable. Um is a is a great goal. Um but making text amendments like that um broadly, I know for me I I can't support that. Um considering we have establishments already in that zone, um which I've, you know, frequented Dunkin Donuts over there, it's great. Um but the folks that already grandfathered in, um are lucky. But I I don't see that supporting such an uh such a text amendment would would be a good good idea for that for that district. So those are my only comments. Thank you, Commissioner Marshall Neely. Uh thank you, Mr. Chair. I I I can't support that either. Um, and I I concur with Commissioner Peters, but I also know that on Cottage Grove Road, there is a drive-thru um, Dunkin Donuts. And when I when I go there, the the infrequent frequent times that I do, it's very hard to get out of that little space because of the traffic that's going back and forth. I also realized that, you know, the town we're trying to um we're trying to create a

more vibrant, peoplefriendly town. And when I think of all of the drive-thru businesses that could be here, I think about um sitting at the table and everyone's looking at their cell phones and texting and no one's interacting with each other. And when I when I walk the trail or go somewhere in Bloomfield, I want to be able to stop and talk to people or sit down and say, "Hey, how you doing?" or shake hands or whatever. And I don't get that from um from drive-throughs. Also, I I look forward to the streetscape and uh the uh the new Blue Hills Avenue area. So, with that being said, I I just would not ever be able to support that. Thank you, Commissioner Bell. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, obviously, I can't support this. Uh, I brought the point that I don't think this is an appropriate way to do text amendments. Um, I don't think this is an appropriate text amendment. I also don't think it's an appropriate way to even do text amendments. Um, and I'll say something a little bit more about that in a second, but I do want to riff just a bit on what Commissioner Marshall Neely said. Um, I meant to bring it, but I forgot. I was looking at the agenda yesterday and I was reading through this stuff. I'm currently reading uh Jonathan Hate's uh recent book uh uh The Anxious Generation about the loss of childhood. And part of the reason for that loss of childhood is that um too many people as Commissioner Marshall Neely said are staring at their phones instead of talking to each other instead of instead of walking in the real world and embodied uh you know being embodied in their physical presence. And we have done this to ourselves with our devices but we've

also done this to ourselves with our cars and our automobiles. And we need to change the way we interact and structure with each other. I also do not frequent places that um do drive-throughs. Um I do not think they are the comment that they are good for the customer. Um I think we're all poorer for them. Uh that doesn't mean that they might not be more convenient, but I think our way of life is poorer for them. And at the end of the day, maybe I experience that more than I do the extra five minutes I have to wait to get a cup of coffee. So, uh, I'm not in favor of this text amendment. Uh, I think we should also as a commission um revise section 96A of the or I guess it's 96A point uh.3 of the application requirements. Um, I do not think people I think there has to be for for text amendments um initiated by residents or property owners. I think there has to be some level of buyin from the community and I think they should have to submit a petition uh indicating that people uh do want this change. Uh I think this is all about the I think this is about drive-ins. To me, it's not about what business goes there. Uh, but I als I think we set this up as a gateway district for a reason. And, you know, we've mentioned the streetscape. We also uh this commission uh I think approved uh a very positive apartment development on Blue Hills Avenue. And I appli I was not at that meeting. I applaud my fellow commissioners because I think that's a very very good development. Uh I think it you know it gives affordable housing to people. Um it it makes it it puts

activity there to walk on that new streetscape. Uh but if you recall most of the conversation that people were worried about was the traffic. So we are not you know we are making progress on the gateway district and I want to keep that progress. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Um, and my final comments would be, um, I'll go back to Commissioner O'Brien when he spoke in terms of our future plan of conservation and development and how that was not part of the plan for the Gateway District, that type of usage. Um, I'm also concerned more with the traffic in that particular area. Seeing the Commissioner Goff just brought up, we just approved several months ago a senior housing uh, complex with probably a couple hundred units there, which is already going to increase the flow of traffic. And uh the last thing I'll say is I I just um I think with the newly approved streetscape renovations that's planned for that area that once again it probably would not be an appropriate usage for that facility to to uh relocate or any facility with a drive-in to relocate in that in that area. So I would probably u be against it also. With that said, uh Jonathan, a question for you. We It's not I know you had mentioned that we were still waiting on a report from from Crag regarding this. That's correct. Is that necessary before we make a deliberation on it? We have to give them the opportunity that they are not they

are not required to submit a report. They most normally do, but we should not close the hearing until their 35day period expires. I know that's an inconvenience and a bit, but that applies to both this and the next public hearing because they we're still inside the 35 days that they're allowed to respond. So, technically, you should continue this hearing to your next meeting. Um, you can just open it and then and then vote. You don't have to obviously go through all the procedures. Okay. Thank you. So, it wouldn't be necessary to make any closing uh remarks on your application yet. The chair entertain a motion to continue this public hearing until our May 22nd meeting. So, moved. Second. It's been moved and second. Any further discussion? Um I'd like to make a comment on that. Sure. Um, I think we allow Crag folks to make comments to us, but I don't think we have to abide by those comments. No, you don't have to abide by them, but you have a statutory requirement to allow 35 period. No, you certainly you do not have to abide by them. They're they're advisory purely. So what would we be in if if we voted? What would we be in violation of? State statutes for referral times. Okay. Thank you. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying I of continuing this public hearing to May 22nd. I I oppose. Abstension. The chair vai. Thank you. We'll see you May

22nd. Okay. Next item on the the next item uh is also a public hearing and I'll ask the secretary if she read the legal notice. Yes, Mr. Chair. Notice is hereby given that the town planning plan and zoning commission will hold a regular on meeting on Thursday, April 24th, 2025 at 7 p.m. hybrid meeting in person at 800 Bloomfield Avenue council chambers room and virtually via Zoom to consider the following regulation amendment application per section 9.6 six of the town of Bloomfield zoning regulation to add a new section 6.14 inclusionary zoning and amend section 2.2 to add affordable housing related term definitions applicant town of Bloomfield Town Planning and Zoning Commission. Thank you. Uh Jonathan, thank you Mr. Chairman, members of the commission. Uh these uh proposed regulations uh reflect um uh the uh many conversations very positive and excellent conversations that the commission's had over the past three or four meetings about inclusionary zoning and the draft regulations. Uh these these regulations incorporate the uh minor suggestions made at the last meeting. have been reviewed um with the folks at GMAN and York who think they are an excellent set of proposed regulations. Um and jumping ahead um the staff would uh would um enthusiastically recommend um adoption by the by the commission. Uh I think we it reflects a very good balance between um requiring in requiring inclusionary zoning and

affordable/workforce housing and still u maintaining um a proper business uh model uh for applicants and developers. uh that it's not um overly um burdensome on them to meet these requirements and still um have a profitable operation as they go forward. So we would um staff again would support them and again as we indicated uh earlier uh we're these are also affected by the statutory 35day review by Crag and after the commission con completes its um questions and deliberations. Um it would be necessary to continue this hearing uh again to the May 22nd u commission meeting. Be happy to answer any questions. Okay. Thank you. Um, will you be here representing this uh amendment? Say again. I say will you be kind of representing this amendment on behalf of uh staff? Yes, sir. Okay. All right. Is there any questions regarding this um text amendment from anyone in the audience? And Linda, is there anyone online? Oh, hold on. She might have a question regarding this. Unice Medinter, 46 Newport Drive, Bloomfield. So, I have a question with regards to the text amendment. I'm not sure I'm 100% clear as to um what exactly we're hoping to achieve in terms of affordable housing and the um the

amendment that we're trying to make. If you could just clarify before I ask my question, please. What we're trying to do is it is um it is a strategic policy of the town council and of um the commission's plan of conservation and development and of the commission's affordable housing plan to increase available affordable housing within the town. And um as in a variety of communities, um what this regulation would do would would be require um applicants of residential developments that are over 10 units uh within the development, whether they're single family or rental or condominium, to set aside 12% at a minimum for affordable housing. that housing would be available to people who do not exceed 80% of the um average medium income for uh the Hartford County. So is that mandatory that the developer would have to comply with that 12% requirement? They would either have to provide that or they would have to make a contribution into a housing trust fund. And how would that housing trust fund work to provide affordable housing? That housing trust fund is a fund that has been set up by the council. It is still actually establishing its policies and procedures uh so that it can work with both commercial developments and individual residential developments. Has that housing trust fund operated in any other municipality that you can have a track record as to how that would work in Bloomfield? We are looking at others. Um there is not one that would be exactly similar to this one, but the the one that that's

been the most effective one uh and is funded is actually in Mansfield, Connecticut. Um so Yukon Yukon Law School recently held a um seminar for one of a better description um with regards to affordable housing bridging the gap wealth gap in terms of racial inequity. um one of the speakers that was there um a very senior attorney um addressed the problem of affordable housing. Are you familiar with the concept of Noah? I am not. So one of the things he mentioned was Noah being naturally occurring affordable housing. from experience having been an attorney working in planning and zoning and fighting for affordable housing is that these kind of a prescribe affordable housing in 50 years hasn't worked. Noah naturally occurring affordable housing is where we ultimately they have come to the conclusion from the southernest part of the state all the way to the northernest part it hasn't worked trying to create affordable housing and that that's something we should allow to happen naturally I'm not sure as a town government we tend to want to use the word affordable housing and I find it to be more of a catchphrase because it sounds good. One of the things I found is that we can't as a town say we're going to do this housing thing to make affordable housing when our actions and otherwise directly conflict with affordable housing. How does our actions conflict

with it? So, I understand the amendment that you're trying to make. I'm just asking that when you make an amendment that it's actually not just a catchphrase and that it is actually something that you provide us with true data to support that this is something that will work, can work, has worked and why it will benefit the town. That's all I'll say to them. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Uh, any further questions regarding this text amendment? Anyone online, Linda? Okay, then we'll start with the commission and I'll start with Commissioner Goff. Any questions? No, I'm I I you know, I comment on this obviously I think Commissioner spent a lot of time on this. Um, I'll make a comment to the person who just spoke when we get to the comment section. Um, but I do uh I did have one question because I did go through it from last time and I did um in the density bonus in the definitions density bonus question uh section. I did request that the it said the last uh statement that says this encourages the development of affordable housing while giving developers the opportunity to maximize their investment. Uh again, I would ask that that word maximize be changed to realize because again, as as the uh the uh planner pointed out, what the idea of this is is that we want to pass something that will give the developers a chance to make a profit. I'm not, you know, it's not my intention necessarily to maximize their profit. My intention is to make sure that they can realize uh their investments. So, I would I would ask that that be changed. We apologize. We should have picked that up. Yeah. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Marshall Neely, any questions? Um, actually, I I do not have any questions right now. I'm absorbing what I heard, so I'll hold off until it's time to to uh speak. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Bolton. Thank you, Mr. here. Um, under the commercial linkage share, uh, Director Coleman, it says 10% of the building permit fee. So, it's going to be inclusive and not added to the current building permit fee. Say again. Sorry. Yes, that's correct. Last time there was a legal issue that was by someone. I think it was raised. We did not um did not get an we we did raise it with the with the town council. We did not get a response but I think we it was obviously the consensus that there would be in would be in conclusive not additional to and if it and if it was additional two uh that would have to be set by the town council what the legal issue was I think whether or not we can charge that addition whether it was um it was an it was an unfair fee. Yeah. Um, you know, I'm all for affordable housing work in the space. I

not see a not it would not be added. It would be and and the council would have to make that decision. It would, you know, it would be it would it would take a portion of the building fee and place it into the housing trust fund the 10%. Are you saying that if we approve this portion? They could. Yes. In terms of any fee structures that are in here, that's ultimately an ordinance that has to be approved by the council. for the horse. Wait for that. No, I think we need to put it in place first and then we and then we move it up the up the ladder. as your expert opinion here is you think help us that field. I think it's I think it's it it will assist us in getting affordable housing. Um, we've already had conversations with some developers about about this potential ordinance and about having and and anytime I meet with a developer, I tell them that basically if they want to move forward, we need to have some affordable component. I think this is structured and Gman and York clear also agrees that this is structured in a manner that it should not discourage developers from coming in. Obviously, time will tell uh but it's our professional opinion uh that this can work effectively both for the community and for developers.

Okay. Thank you, Commissioner James. Um my one question, I had a conversation uh with a neighbor um about some some zoning uh inclusionary zoning or how to get more affordable housing. And I asked her to forward it to planning department. I don't know if you guys received it. Um but she mentioned [Music] um to h for the developers to have some skin in the game having a regulation that gets a portion of their the the property owner uh revenue um as a part of a condition to develop in town. I guess I'm curious any comments from planning on such a such a um strategy. Um that one I'd have to think about quite frankly before I gave you a complete answer to see what the ramifications were. Sure. Sure. I mean we're continued anyway so maybe next meeting we'll have some comments on such a such an option. Um that's my one question. Thanks, Commissioner Mallette. I don't have any questions, so I'll I'll have some comments. Thank you, Commissioner Blunt. The two questions that I uh was planning to ask were actually asked by a member of the audience who spoke. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner O'Brien. Yeah, I'd like to uh commend the the um whoever wrote this and brought it forward. Um actually the issue of housing and affordability is one of the reasons why

I went into planning as a youngster more years ago than I want to tell you. Um and I have written affordable housing regulations in other communities in the state of Connecticut. I have seen them work. Uh they do work. This can work. The only thing I I'm always uh reluctant about is setting the waiver fee too low so that the developer feels like it's a cost of doing business. I'll just pay the pay that fee and not supply the units. Um, and what we're really looking for units. I would like to agree with the woman who spoke that uh we haven't provided enough affordable units and but that doesn't mean that we haven't afford provided units. It's it it's like Commissioner O'Brien. Yeah. At this portion we're doing questions. All right. You might want to save that. Uh my only my only comments suggestion on here and I don't know when it's appropriate is the um as somebody who's been a bureaucrat um you have a report being submitted to an office and I always wonder like who's in that office going to get it and read it and I would suggest you might indicate who who it goes to. If it goes to the building official and sits on his desk or her desk, I I don't know that they would have the same input than if it sat on the planning director's desk. That would be my only suggestion. That's in your annual monitoring says it'll be submit to the office. Jonathan, can you answer that?

We can do that. Okay, we can be more specific. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Aina, any questions? Yes, I have a couple of questions. Um, given that Bloomfield from my understanding has rather limited opportunity for additional development. Um, also limited uh availability of develop development for affordable housing. Now this particular proposal um what is the expected outcome? So that's question number one. Then how is it expected to increase affordable housing or maybe I should ask is the intention of the uh of this proposal to increase affordable housing? So that's the question is the intention of this to increase affordable housing and then um what is the expected outcome by using this method um then also I'd like to know what is the model that is being used to that will indicate that this this um I don't want to will uh result in increased affordable housing and then also So um they've me it's been mentioned that is um the there's an income um ratio that's being used of 80%. Is it 80% of what is it 80% of AMI average median income in the area? That's another question which if so if not because AMI

is what is being used in affordable housing. So therefore what EMI is being used is it normally what I've heard so far or what I've learned so far according to my knowledge is is usually in the range of 30% to 50%. So I suppose with the 80% uh that has been mentioned and lastly how does um the fee arrangement how does that result in increased affordable housing if indeed that is the intention of this proposal. So those are the questions that I have. Commissioner the um the 80% that is 80% of the AMI of the Hartford County as set forth in the state statutes which is what's referenced. Um the fee in lie of uh would go into a housing fund. And that that housing trust fund is um is set up purposely uh to um assist um in um both the rehabilitation and the construction of um workforce and affordable housing. those policies are still putting in put in place but that is the purpose of that fund that the funds would go into the regulations themselves um despite what um the um resident indicated earlier um is based u prepared by in part by a consultant who has um extensive experience with in both drafting and in effectuating affordable housing throughout the state of Connecticut and

in some other states uh believes um that these regulations um uh will um provide um additional affordable housing and will not discourage developers from um um developing within the town of Bloomfield. Are we able to look at a model that will um achieve the outcome that is desired in Bloomfield? The the consultant basically developed this based on a model that they on an economic model that they have used in a variety of locations. Will it be possible for us to be able to see that model and the outcome and the expected outcome and how they they use this model for Bloomfield. We can speak to that consultant. See if we can get you that. Thank you. Okay. Commissioner Peters, any questions? No questions. Okay, thank you. I don't have any questions either. Oh, excuse me. Sure, Commissioner Blunt. Um, this is just for the staff. Uh, under section 6.14.B FeLoo. Um, number two, it seems as though we say CPI for the first time in the document and we don't spell it out. So for folks who don't know what it is, can we just indicate fully? Yep. Thanks.

Okay. Thank you. I don't have any questions. Uh we'll go to comments. Anyone in the audience with comments? Thank you. Uh Brian Zelman, 15 Conquered Street in West Harford. Also uh one of the builders and operators of the residences at Washbrook at 65 Jolly Drive. Um I'm here today to speak against uh this one-sizefits-all policy uh that will result in fewer units being developed in the town. Uh I grew up here. I've lived here almost I don't live here currently. I've lived here almost half my life. uh have been fortunate to be able to build several projects uh and give back to this community through through those projects. Um we're working all over the state of Connecticut to try to increase the housing stock which includes projects of all varieties. the luxury product that we built in Bloomfield. Um entry level product in in New Britain. Um working on some capital A affordable projects. Uh you know, excuse me, 4% uh LITC products projects. Um uh most of the affordable units in our projects that are not capital A affordable projects um have been outside of a mandate. For example, we're building 48 luxury units uh in the town of West Harford on Farmington Avenue. Um and uh the permitting for that was through the town council by special permit. Uh and they expressed that they desired to have affordable housing uh in the town and we offered two units uh and our project was approved and and that was a consideration for uh for the approval. Um the this commission has been very willing to listen and work with builders like us to make regulation changes uh necessary to support redevelopment such as when we did the Connecticut GI uh facility we did a bunch of uh text amendments and zoning changes uh and

also for our washbrook projects. Uh I think the last time I was here you said please don't come back for any more changes on this one project. Um so I'm not here for that. Um, please understand my ask today is out of a desire to keep additional barriers um from preventing more housing being developed. We need housing of all of all types. Um there's several studies out and recent articles highlighting those studies showing that at a minimum in Connecticut, we're shy about a 100,000 units of housing. um th this one-sizefits-all policy, it just raises the bar and barriers uh you know, economically, right? Economic growth in our state is directly tied to our ability to grow the housing supply. I was at uh Mnt Bank in Bridgeport a few weeks ago at a um at a forum that was moderated by CBIA. It had a lot of stakeholders in the room, Department of Housing, uh manufacturers uh from all over the state. And the consensus, you know, basically is we need housing supply, supply, supply, uh will, you know, will hopefully drive the affordability down, create economic growth, uh, you know, allow job growth, you know, etc. Um, construction costs are up over 40% in the last 5 years. Interest rates and capital costs have more than doubled. Now, rents have increased drastically um but they have not outpaced the increase in expenses uh specifically insurance uh labor expenses to operate properties um and and also taxes uh which are a huge consideration for our projects uh in in Bloomfield and in other towns. Uh this is you know this could be compounded even more by the yet unknown impact of tariffs on on construction. Right? We have a few projects in the queue right now and

we're kind of sitting and waiting to see what's what's going to happen. Um what is the the projects that we built in the town uh wouldn't it if the 12% requirement um was in place at the time that those projects started uh they wouldn't have penciled. We wouldn't have built them. It it just it wouldn't have worked. delta between the rent um under the under the 80% AMI and the rents that we're getting um would would not meet requirements uh from the from the lenders to meet debt service coverage ratios. Uh and it just it it wouldn't have been a good investment for for lenders for equity uh etc. Um but we have plans for another 40 units on Jolly Drive, which was the last project that I uh mentioned. Um, and we're not sure if that's going to be able to be built right now. Uh, you know, we've been trying to talk to the town for some time about, you know, about a tax arrangement because the taxes effectively are the largest operating expense. Um, and obviously it's not under your purview, but all the, you know, unknowns about the taxes and bill rate right now have us at a little bit of a standstill. I think there's a conversation to to be had there and there may even be some uh you know some some trade-offs in in giving a few units uh you know affordable in exchange for some tax consideration if you know if there's a conversation to be had there. Um several years ago the town of West Harford um had some public conversation about creating a 10% mandate uh for affordable housing across new developments. I don't know whether it was you know 10 units or more or four units or more. uh at the end of the day they didn't uh they didn't implement that. Almost every project that's been uh built in West Harford since that discussion happened has some level of affordability effectively under what what this woman mentioned as a you know as a Noah as an organic thing. The town expressed the desire for it. the

developers understood uh when they came to the table uh that that's a consideration in the in the approval process and the town gained affordable units in exchange for that. They also gained uh since around that time there's been three uh capital A affordable projects developed in uh in West Harford. One one just recently completed in in West Harford Center which is higher economic uh constraints. So, you know, my message is um there are other types of policies that can support housing growth. Some of those are around around taxes. Um West Harford create used ARPA money to create an affordable uh housing fund that uh sort of a revolving loan fund they use to support affordable projects. So, you know, adding adding cost to a project is different than figuring out other tools to support projects. Um, the state has a lot of those tools. There's also a workforce housing program that DOH is facilitating with local banks. Um, and I I might I might be off on this a little bit, but if there's a mandatory uh affordability requirement, it would preclude developers from participating in that workforce uh program, which has tens of millions of dollars allocated to it by the state to facilitate workforce housing, which is anywhere between uh 30% and 120% AMI in a percentage uh in a in a healthy percentage of the units in those types of projects. But that pro program does not work um if you're uh giving those rents away by mandate as opposed to willingly as part of your uh program. So um you know I would just encourage you to you know take one developer's viewpoint that this will certainly impact our looking at projects in you know in this town and in in any town. Um so look 12% of zero is

you know is still zero. So thank you for your time. Thank you. Point of order. Mr. Chair, what what is our time limit on citizen comments? Um, well, I mean, we haven't had anyone here, so we really haven't uh there hasn't really been a need to kind of like enforce anything. Ununice Medinter, 46 Newport Drive, Bloomfield. Um, thank you for sharing some of your insights. Um, I would strongly encourage this commission to vote against um, having a, for one of a better word, and to kind of sound blunt, an extortion from developers. If we want luxury housing, we build h luxury housing. Affordable housing is important, but this plan does not in any way, shape, or form indicate how we will provide affordable housing, which is needed and necessary for Bloomfield. We have no plan as to how this housing trust work, how it's going to be spent, how is it going to create um house, affordable housing. The only thing we do know is that we are going to ask developers for 12%. We have all different kinds of people living in Bloomfield. Some who needs and some who want. I work with I'm a realtor. I work with clients from those who want starter homes and those who want luxury homes. There's different markets for different people. Having the develop forcing a developer to pay 12% is not the road to go. I'm not a developer, but I can tell you without a plan as to how this housing trust idea is going to work and implement, I encourage all of you listen carefully, read properly, think about

it. Where exactly does affordable housing come in? You're mandated to make these decisions. It's an important one. Think about it carefully before you vote for this. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Um, we'll now take comments from the commission if there's anyone online. Linda. Okay. Um, we'll start with Commissioner Peters. Any comments regarding this text amendment? Commissioner Peters. Okay, we'll we'll go to Commissioner Aina. Do you have any comments regarding this text amendment? Yes. Uh Mr. chairman. I think that um since Broomfield has uh limited um opportunity for development, we need to seriously look at how this um the development, you know, we should be working for the well-being of the people of Bloomfield. So we have to make the best use of what's available in development to contribute to the quality of life of the people who live in Bloomfield now. So I think that um we need to try to take take a very very serious look at this have some hard numbers study and understand all the tools that are available. It's you know again this is not anti-developer or

anti-development. is just uh to look at the best the best fit for Bloomfield to you know understand what we are trying to accomplish and the best tools for us to accomplish this. Um, you know, first we need to understand all the uh factors that the staff had used to come to this to arrive at this and then we need to know the potential outcome, understand what is going to happen if we you know and we need to be able to look at the numbers, look at the models, look at all the aspects of it and see what is the best way to go given Bloomfield and his situation. There are many other tools um you know the tax credits and things like that and also to understand the AMI that is appropriate for the Bloomfield community that are here now how that is going to benefit or affect the people who live in Bloomfield now. So I think we need to take the time to study this, understand it, explain to us so that the so that people of Bloomfield can understand it because it will affect the people who live in Bloomfield now. So that's what I think we should we should do. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Okay. Thank you, uh, Commissioner O'Brien. Um, I've looked at models like that. Uh, you can put pen to pencil. Um, I'm sure this gentleman knows his um his business. Um, but if the market is there to build housing, in my experience,

um, a regulation like this works. I've seen it work. Um, and if I was a voting member on the night it came before us, I would support it. Thank you. Okay. Um, Commissioner Blunt, before we get to you, I think Leon is back. Commissioner Peters, any comments? Yeah, sorry. I apologize. I was having a little bit of trouble unmuting. Um, I think my comment would be, you know, a couple commissioners have spoken about this. Um, I do not want to grant developers or anyone who like a like a 12% onetime fee to then produce or generate incomes that don't that aren't sustainable for the residents of Bloomfield. But I don't know what the answer would be for a future I guess I don't want to say tax, but something that would commit them to Bloomfield to fully implement this um inclusionary zoning um cost. And I do want to clarify uh to the commissioner aa who asked the question uh and um and the the woman the woman who um asked the question as well or presenting that uh question about what is um low income or or um affordable housing. It is it is and it has been stated that it is um applicable to the average wage or the average income to Bloomfield residents. So, our affordable housing is in um it it isn't it corresponds to Bloomfield residents. It's it's not the same for West Harford residents or Harford residents. It's Bloomfield residents and how the general income for Bloomfield residents is and that's where that number comes from. So, if that's not as transparent as we would

like it to be, we should offer that to the community. So what that means to the community is fully understood. Um after thinking or hearing about everything that's been said today, I do think we need to look at it a little bit more because I do I don't think um certain questions have been answered. Um, I was in full support and I am in leaning in support of this, but I just feel like there are a little bit of unreadiness for the community and I do think we need to dial back and look into that a little bit more to for to provide additional clarity because that that doesn't seem that doesn't seem um readily apparent at this moment. So, those would be my comments. Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Blunt. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I'm not a voting member of the commission tonight, but I've had very mixed views on this. Um, both positive and negative. I think it's been well done. Uh, we've spent a lot of time talking about it. I appreciate the efforts of all involved, but I I feel like we're in one way discouraging um developers. And if it's true that there are state workforce efforts that this could potentially um derail uh that would help us develop more affordable housing, then I think we should stand back and look at that um seriously. But I I would hope that overall even if we do approve this as a commission that we could also look at other creative ways

to encourage naturally occurring housing. It seems as though you know based on our size, our demographics, you know, and the natural evolution of the existing housing inventory that there are cycles and, you know, maybe things like tax credits and and congregate housing for the elderly, other options might benefit our town in addition to what we've already developed here. That's all. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Blunt, I mean, I'm sorry, Commissioner Mallette. Commissioner Mallette. Um, I just want to thank staff for um, you have listened to us for a while and and and just drafting these and just getting a really good baseline here. Um, I I I do have some reservations and I'll I'll go through them quickly. Um, but I'm glad we've we've gotten at least to to this point. Um, I'm a little concerned it it it might um disincentivize some potential development. I mean, we've heard some anecdotal uh notes tonight and it it could be burdom in in some respects. Uh I would have loved to see more of a sliding scale. So, currently we're at if you do 10%. We may grant density bonuses. Now we're starting at you must do 12. Um so I I would have loved to see maybe some compromise there. Um where uh we have a little bit more discretion. I I do love

and I think I mentioned this last time that as part of uh that we do have the discretionary modifications. I think that got gave us a lot of wiggle room. So that was one one point that I really didn't like. Um, I really don't like the commercial linkage. Uh, that that's a just been a concern of mine. Uh, partly and and I'll go into one of my other concerns is the housing trust. The fact that it is it's not really well defined on how that will be exactly managed. Um and you know is it going directly to providing units whether it's it's creating them or rehabilitating them or you know can it go on to other things that you know are to use the term earlier um they're they're ancillary or they're secondary to the primary which is providing an affordable unit. Um I think we touched a little bit on you know probably defining a little bit more on the reporting requirements. I think that's another overhead, another ownorous thing on especially a small developer who you know probably is not doing a lot of management or you know paperwork. Um, so those are my hesitations in giving this like a full support, but I I am very happy we've at least landed. But that that 12% must is probably one of my biggest having that as our starting point versus the 10%. And then you we will consider um you know density bonuses and also realizing that yes that the some of the financial components might have to be done with the town and also there's just the larger economy and where we are in this cycle of of real estate. Um because

at the end of the day, a developer, they've got to show the performer to be able to get financing and and do their projects regardless of what units and that it has to make sense. So that that's my uh my take on it. Hey, thank you, Commissioner James. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I know the commission um is very familiar with how uh important affordable housing is to me. Um, I sit here during almost every single public hearing or application and ask developers, do they have affordable housing in their developments? And if it's not required, the answer has been no. So, I'm interested to see. It's interesting to me to hear that if it's not required in a neighboring town, they always offer it. Whereas when it was it's not required here and it's never offered, it's never a part of the plan unless it was required for a density bonus. Now, I appreciate the public hearing because it tells me what's the percentage. If it's not 12%, what is the percentage that would work? What's the compromise? Because I can't sit through any more applications where I'm looking at $500,000 homes, $800,000 homes, $3,200 apartments. People of Bloomfield cannot afford that. There are seniors who want to downsize. There are families that are growing that want to have their own places to live. And it is not affordable. We don't have it. And naturally occurring affordable housing happens when there is a lot of new units

on the market. We are only so big in Bloomfield. We don't have an endless capacity for development. So we those older units don't become more affordable because there are no more there there's not as many new units. They're all prices are going up for every across the board. Prices are going up. We saw it. We see it now. It's going to continue to happen. The instability in the nation and the lack of affordable lack of affordable housing or just housing units in general makes that more costly for people. So, as a regulator, I feel that we have to put something in place to require the developers to have affordable units if they want to build in Bloomfield. I think that the right developer who was able to make it work, is able to do some negotiations with our town will find a way to develop and if we have to adjust the percentage, I'm comfortable with that. I I think we can find some sort of compromise if if if that if that exists. But if it doesn't work, we can come back to the table and amend our regulations. It's not we are we have the authority to be able to change our regulations and in a certain period of time if we feel that we aren't getting any new developments, we can adjust it. We can change it. It's it's not set in stone forever and ever. But we have to do something for our residents. And I understand it's hard for developers to make it work, but our residents are frustrated. They don't want to see more developments with half a million dollar homes. We just can't stomach it. And this regulation ensures that if you want to build in Bloomfield, you're going to have affordable units at 80 for people making no more than 80% of

area median income. And that is actually consistent across Harford County. And I'm looking it up. For one person, 80% is somebody making no more than about $55,000 a year. And for a family of three, it's about $71,000 a year. So, we're really asking that you build units where people who make these amounts can afford to pay for where they live and pay their bills and not be burdened by the increase how expensive housing is right now. We don't want people to feel that it's unaffordable for them to live in Bloomfield. It has to be a place where people can afford to live. And we have seen application after application for these luxury units that people cannot afford in Bloomfield. And we want to see something change. I think this regulation allows for that that to happen. And we as a commission can revisit it if we feel that it is prohibitive to the development of new units in town. Thank you. Uh Commissioner Bolton. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Before I begin, I I I want to um welcome uh Commissioner O'Brien to uh to our uh humble uh TPZ. Um he may not remember me, but uh I do remember him when uh he was the director of uh planning um and zoning for the city of Hartford and I've worked on I think we did um the um public safety complex together, maybe a few others on the Jim Ke. So I am honored to to be on the dis with you. Um, and I hope I never have to speak after him too much because just a plethora of knowledge and experience. Um, a few schools together and we did a few a lot of schools. Yes. Um, everyone um, on this commission knows that I I have a background in

construction management. I do work in the space of affordable housing. Um, I started off working with the Harford Housing Authority. Um, doing work now with the New Haven Housing Authority and um, the DEC uh, money that's out there. um and the and the department of housing money that's out there to try and uh combat the fact that the state of Connecticut and the country at large just has a huge um uh housing uh shortage and crisis um that not too many folks are offering from the federal level down to the state level um offering too many solutions. I do uh commend uh Governor Lamont on his uh investment of $15 million into the CT home uh program that he just announced. Um, and I believe there's another program going to be associated with that through the Department of Housing that the city of Hartford is investing. I believe it's $2 million to make it a total of $4 million between the city of Hartford and uh the state of Connecticut. Those are the types of things that need to occur more um to try to combat and solve this uh uh housing uh crisis. Um, I have a hard time supporting um this plan, not because I don't support affordable housing. I work in the space. Um, I I do believe that um we are a we're giving the developer an out, b we're extorting the developer. And I I don't like either. Um, I think that the current affordable housing plan percentages um established by the connected general uh uh statutes of 10% um is it it is a minimal, right? And I I certainly um share Commissioner James' position that often time we have developers come through the town of Bloomfield who just say, "Listen, that's not the space we work in and uh and we don't want that." Um, and and I think that's wrong and I think we we have to

uh be more aggressive as a as a body. I want to thank uh Mr. Zelman for um for showing up tonight because I wanted to hear from an actual developer um because it's easy for us to sit up here um and and make these type of decisions. I don't want to see development stopped or slowed down in in the town of Bloomfield. Um and I do believe that if if something like this is to pass that you're going to take your business elsewhere. Um, and I think that's unfortunate. Um, I don't remember with the Jolly Drive I was on the commission then. I don't believe you had any affordable units in in the in that in those developments. I don't you can correct me if I'm wrong. I don't believe you do. Um, I believe you told us that those were market rate. Um, I I I don't support that either. I I think that obviously the market should drive these decisions, but we're not going to solve the housing shortage and crisis with this. This is not going to do that in my humble opinion. Um, I I put together the budgets for the housing authority and when I when they say to me that these are supposed to be affordable housing, I'm like, where? You're at 225 250 a unit. I mean, these are bare bone units. I don't I I just don't get it. But it's supply and demand. Um, I I commend uh staff, um, Commissioner James and others who work to really put this together. Um, the commercial linkage I'm not a fan of. Um, I don't really care about the 12%. I I think any percentage you put the state has already said, listen, you should be able to give at least 10% and make something like that happen. Um I still support that. Um I I I I don't know that with the current development that we have in town, um what's going to potentially occur and happen buildoutwise with the center of town development, I I I don't know that we're going to see or realize any real um positive outcomes with this. Um, but uh I I do I do have a few issues with it. And uh I I wanted to at least thank thank the folks that came out because

it's important that the residents come out and and and and businesses, the developers that do business in the town come out and and let us know how our decisions are going to impact, you know, your ability to um to build in in this town and make money. And so, thank you. And uh thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Marshall Neely. Oh, you just had to have me go after my colleague here. I I have to um I want to start by saying there's an act, right? A political act which is uh a problem, a concern, a situation. And from a legislative legislator's position, that act, you know, can go to the house. The house is going to recognize any discussions about what that act is and they'll vote on it and send it to the Senate. The Senate is going to either vote on it and approve it or not approve it. And so oftent times the Senate will approve it but not come up with the steps on how to make it work. We're here trying to come up with the steps on how to make it work. I've testified many times at the LOB and even though it passes, legislators can't figure out how to make it work. I did like to hear I appreciated hearing Noah because naturally occurring uh affordable housing sounds good but I don't think affordable housing is a $4,000 a month rent for someone who uh is trying to move into Bloomfield. the cost of of a

home for a single fam for a family of two or three kids. They can't afford the home, but they love the town of Bloomfield. And we're not able to make it work. We're at that level now where we need to come up with some kind of process to make it work. I understand from the developers point of view that their their goal is to to um have their income or to make money on what they're doing, but you have to come down to a level where you're thinking about the average citizens in the town of Bloomfield and the median income. I I can't I can't sit high and look low. I knocked on doors. I talked to people who needed a roof on their home or wanted to sell their home and move somewhere else, but the cost of moving somewhere else in Bloomfield was too high for them. So, where are we? We're on the legislative level where we're trying to figure out how to make it work. and maybe we should go back and think about some alternatives or something. But I just can't sit here and and and think, well, if we build another luxury apartment building on Jolly Drive or if we build another luxury apartment, even if it's not on Jolly Drive, somewhere else, I don't think that's serving the majority of our community. I do not want to cut out developers. I do not. But I concur with Commissioner James because she's she's talked about it almost every meeting that we had. She is pro- social

justice for the people in the town of Bloomfield trying to find a solution. So I am saying to everyone that I don't know whether I agree with it 100% 70% 90% but I do know that we have an issue we have an act in Bloomfield that needs to be resolved and if that means we have to go back to the table and look at Noah and look at some other things and come up with some other suggestions then maybe we should do that but I am not going to say that inclusionary uh inclusionary housing is something that we're we should just automatically say nope definitely not. We need to come up with something and if we can't all agree with this um go back to the table and look at what we can do for the people in Bloomfield. That's all I have to say. Okay. Thank you. Uh Commissioner Goff. Um thank you Mr. Chair. Uh it's going to be a long evening. Um but I did have quite a bit to say on this subject. Um try to be brief. Um first of all I I I I agree with um my col mo most of my colleagues. Um I do think it is time we do something about this. I think we have debated this for a long time. I think we have a very workable uh draft or workable amendment. Uh as pointed out this is not something that has to stay on the books forever. Um, I want to come back to the natural occurring affordable housing in in a moment. Um, you know, this this commission before I was on it passed AUDs. Um, that's supposed to help. I don't think it has at all in Bloomfield. Uh, and that's not here or there. You know, it just it's another it's another tool.

Um, you know, I'm totally in support of what we have promulgated here. Um, I'm, you know, be willing to vote this ahead, although evidently we cannot because of the CROG, uh, the CROG, um, uh, waiting period. Um, but I think it's important we get something on the books and I think this is a good start. Uh, I will address specifically the 12% versus 10%. Um, if you can get the legislature to repeal uh 830G, which I do not think should be in place, uh, if you can get the legislature to to repeal that, then we could start at 10%. But as long as we have a or as long as we have a requirement that um prevents us from controlling our own future and I suggest you look at a number of towns that are currently being sued uh unless we have have a um you know something that lets us control our own future. Uh I don't think it's really you know I think it's something we need to do. So 12% is above the 10% minimum in in 830G and therefore as we add new apartment complexes we will um we will be above the limit not not asmmptoically approaching it. Um, as you all know, we know that the recent senior housing we um the senior housing that we approved on Blue Hills Avenue, they came in, we're very happy to do 10%. So, that that was great. That was not a mandated. Um, they also said the night they were here that if we had asked if we had if we had upfront said 12%, they would have been happy to they would have done 12%. At the time they came in, they had already penciled everything out and and so they were they

they were they felt reluctant to do that and I would not force them to either. Um or tried to for you can't force them but um I think they I think they did a really good job. Um so I like what we have now as a first step. That does not mean there aren't other solutions. that doesn't mean there aren't other things to do. Uh in terms of in terms of the my biggest problem with the affordable housing debate is it gets hung up with two words. One is affordable, the other is housing. I don't think I don't think Connecticut has a housing crisis. I think we have lots of housing. We have mispriced housing for a lot of the population. As Commissioner Marshall Neely said, I think the idea that we need more units, we need ever expanding infinite growth is the basic misconception of both economics and what's driving us downhill. Um, we heard it from Mr. Zelman. Growth, growth, growth doesn't pencil out profit. I need tax abatements. Your taxes hurt me because we don't want to give back to the community. You know, taxes, taxes are a burden on us. Taxes, why should we pay? Why don't the residents pay? So there is a whole difference in economic thinking between that type of developer and the type of developer that we would like to create a flourishing community because you know the markets the system we've created as commissioner Marsh Commissioner James as several others have pointed out it isn't working right we have I I had a senior call me

today a friend of ours whose bank account got scammed and she is having a very difficult time and one of the reasons is she cannot she has housing but she spends probably 50 60% of her income on housing and as we all know that's a formula for disaster. So, uh, I do appreciate people coming out and giving us, um, opinions, uh, and they're just basic philosophical differences between, um, what some people want to see in the community they live in and what other people want to do, uh, come into the community and provide. Um, I think this regulation is, this amendment, um, gets us moves us forward. And I, as I said, I'm I'm ready to vote for it, but it sounds like we need to wait till next time. So, thank you. Okay, sure. You're allowing you're allowing people to comment after the fact. I'm going to let them comment. Um, just you know, I'd be happy to keep it kind of brief. Uh, understood. I'd be happy to uh include uh affordable units in our projects uh in in this town uh or any town. Uh the the proposal adds an economic burden which is already very high for the reasons that I've mentioned. I think uh as I suggested earlier um if there were other tools such as uh tax incentives to accompany that to help equalize those costs uh the deals would pencil for the banks to loan uh and for investments to be made. Um almost every project that we're undertaking in other communities uh

except for Bloomfield and the recent one that we completed in West Harford are uh public private partnerships. I'm happy to have a an offline conversation with with any one of you. We want to be partners in the communities and work together on solutions. Um we're uh we're going to be working in East Harford um on the former Showcase Cinema uh a blighted property. They haven't had any market rate product built in that town for over 50 years. So we're working with the state and the town. Um there's public there's public money involved. Uh and and the really the driver that fuels that project is a 27-year tax abatement. Um sorry, a tax fix. We're never looking for a 100%. But we want to have the taxes as a known quantity without the unknowns of changes in budgets, mill rates, etc. And for the most part on that project and several others, uh the taxes are accretive, right? That property today uh receives the town owns it. It gets 0 in taxes. So, it's a win-win. new housing is built, uh, the town gains taxes as as opposed to nothing. Um, there's a lot of communities out there that that want housing. It sounds like Bloomfield wants housing. I want to build housing in Bloomfield in the community in which I, you know, in which I grew up. Um, but it there, you know, there has to be some more tools and it has to be done uh, collectively as, you know, as partners to achieve the goal. So again, I'm happy to work with, you know, staff, uh, talk to any of you individually to create solutions that can that can, you know, incorporate affordable housing, but also make the project affordable for an investor to develop and create the the product in Bloomfield. I don't want to build it elsewhere. I would like to be able to build it here. All right, Mr. Chairman. Um, I just want to reiterate that you probably all know that if this is an open public hearing, there cannot be individual conversations with an

developer. That's illegal. So, the gentleman's suggestion that he can talk to you offline about this with a pending public hearing is a non-starter. Okay. Well, he maybe he's intending to talk with staff. Uh speaking outside of the actually, Mr. Chair, I I I agree with my colleague Commissioner O'Brien. This is completely inappropriate what we have. You know, I I think I think Mr. O'Brien addressed to us in terms of can't do I I understand that. Hopefully, you're not going to reiterate what No, I'm not going to reiterate that. What I'm going to say though is there's another point of view of 25 27year tax fixes. There's another point of view that this is all a racket. This is all a, you know, you know, I pay my taxes. Maybe I'd like a 27-year tax fix, right? I mean, okay, Commissioner, let's let's not get personal. It's not personal. He's making a conceptual statement. He's saying he can't he can't build housing unless he gets a tax abatement. And my view is that why, you know, why doesn't the citizen have the same argument that that's just okay? I'm okay. I'm going to make my comments cuz I think everyone else has made theirs except me. All right. So basically what I like to say is one I think um we definitely has to get something on the books regarding inclusionary zoning. I I think that's a must and listening to my colleagues it seems as though that there

is a consensus that affordable housing is needed and I agree with that also. I think where we have to continue to put our heads together at is trying to find a sweet spot. um 12% may be high. Um maybe we can, you know, work something out a little bit different. I know Commissioner James mentioned about this is not concrete, which is not. We can always go back and change the text amendment, request a change. Um but we do have to get something on the books. We do probably need to find a sweet spot where we won't discourage but encourage maybe continue to try to have some sort of dialogues have staff has some sort of dialogues with developers to see exactly where that sweet spot would be for them where Bloomfield would still be attractive and yet we can still obtain uh affordable housing component that actually works. So, with that said, I'm going to um probably make a motion to continue this hearing because there's no no closing remarks yet. Uh we'll make a motion. Oh, the chair entertain a motion to continue this. So, moved till May 22nd. Oh, you had a hand. Oh. Um, Ken McCclary asked for the Zoom link. I think he wanted to make a comment. Sorry, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Sorry I couldn't get in and the registration link wasn't working for me. Um, I support the inclusionary zoning in our community. Um, I'm sorry I

couldn't be there tonight. Um I um had class tonight. Um and so just getting out and I wanted to put my lend my voice to the the table. Um you know there are certain uh communities that um well certain policies here in our community that has benefited the developer. And I think one of those things, one of the policies that have has driven the market um particularly drive Jolly Drive and heirloom flats um with the luxury uh apartments is the plan luxury residential. It has had an unintended consequence on um affordability in our community and families like myself and others that I hear um are um finding it very hard to afford um housing in Bloomfield. And so I think this is the right step um in a in um a right step to help uh provide affordability and make housing affordable in Bloomfield. I believe housing is a public good. Um and it should be this body's um goal to protect that public good and make sure that our uh zoning laws um help to amplify the public good of having uh safe, decent, affordable housing in our community. Um, and just like every other um, uh, business, um, the developer is looking for ROA, return on their on their investment, ROI, excuse me. Um, return on their investment and their balance sheets and income statements and all of the things that they submit to the bank um, to do their due diligence, they will just adjust their numbers. Um, I don't think it's going to put a burden on it um, on on on developers. um they will figure out a way to do it because um it's something called opportunity, right? Um there's opportunity in this

community. Um and yes, the market will drive um housing and that presents opportunity. And so asking for if 10% is our goal and we're asking for two more percent, I don't think that is going to be such a burden um that that's going to drive them away from the opportunity of the redevelopment in Bloomfield. And I think this inclusionary zoning um helps um Bloomfield residents and people who looking to live in Bloomfield um benefit in the economic development growth of our community and not just a certain population. So thank you and I hope the commi commissions will put the commission will put their personal opinions aside and think about the residents of Bloomfield and our future residents of Bloomfield. Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you. Uh, at this point, once again, I'm not sure if that motion ever made it to the floor, but the chair would like to entertain a motion to continue this public hearing to our May 22nd meeting. Second. Any further discussion on it? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying I. I. I. Oppose. Extension. Chair votes I. Mr. Chairman. Yes. The staff would like some guidance on what you like us to do going forward. Okay. Well, I think there seems to be a consensus that the way it's written right now, um, it seems to be members want to want to put something out there, but they're just not sure that this one, the way it's written, is exactly what they want to support. So, I'm I'm I'm I understand that, M. Mr. Chairman. That's why I'm

asking for some guidance if you want the staff to continue to um massage uh these these regulations so that at your next meeting uh we can respond to um to what you might like to see differently. Okay. Commissioner James, um, if we ask for changes in this zoning tonight, what happens with the public hearing process? Is the public hearing on what we've drafted as of April 8th? You've responded to conditions in the public hearing. Unless we make really substantial changes, um, it's my opinion that that, uh, you can still act on it at your next meeting. Yes, that's what we'd like to do. I understand that, but I but maybe you can't do it immediately, but quite frankly, the staff, we know there's some specific questions that needed that you wanted clarified, but the staff is quite frankly not clear on what changes you'd like to see and what's been prepare prepared, Mr. Chair. Sure. Commissioner G. Yeah, I I think as far as I can see, um the the structure the the conversation here is um some of us are happy with the draft we have now. Um some folks probably will never be happy with the draft. Uh but I think there are a couple of places that you know there's some discussion about whether it should be 12%. Should it be 11? Should it be 10? I think we I think we can hash that out next time. I don't think that's something for staff to do. Um I think that you know there are a few

things that need that you were asked to be clarified and I guess the um the piece of information is the question of uh if you did the workforce development would you lo you know would you would you lose opportunities for other programs I think that's a research a research question um and I think that Um uh Commissioner Peters, there was one other thing with um what attack the tax um incentives the tax incentives in term I mean I don't think we state that in the document but you know um was that and tax incentives are the purview of the council not okay so so yeah okay all right so so my thing would be I think anything that is a change in in the document is something we would discuss that we could we could we you know it's not something for for staff to do at this point. [Music] Um would it make sense to have a meeting prior to the next public meeting to continue to hash this out among the commission? That may be appropriate. Also, um we have some time constraints because I'm going to be away for a period of time, but um maybe what we can do is in the next week we can um massage it, see if we can get some answers, get that out to the commission and and then they can review it and if at that point you you feel there's a need for a special meeting, then we can call a special meeting. Okay. All right. Yeah. I I think what they mentioned on the workforce thing was a state program. Yeah. And that if we put this in place that we wouldn't

the developers wouldn't be able to we wouldn't qualify. Right. So they need to look at that. Okay. All right. Moving on. Uh the next item on the agenda is under new business and that's uh discussion on the plan of conservation development. The final draft. Mr. Mr. Chairman, we um we have distributed it to you or revised um [Music] um future land use map which I believe incorporates um the changes requested by the commission at the last meeting in terms of having transition zones uh indicating where agricultural um retention might be appropriate. Um we borrowed off of the 2012 plan for that and and at this point um staff would quite frankly believe we're at a point where we could um um begin the 65day statutory review process uh referring it to Crag, putting it out on the website uh referring it to um to anyone who wants to see it uh making it publicly available uh in that 65day period. Obviously, the commission will have any opportunity to make any additional changes and corrections that they want to make, but I think we've gone as far as quite frankly, we've gone as far as we can go. And if we want to wrap this up um by June, uh we ought to institute the 65day statutory review. And I would recommend that the commission just um make a simple motion um um implementing that statutory requirement. Okay. Uh before we do that, did anyone have any questions on this land use ma'am? Okay, good. All right. So then Oh, Commissioner James, you making a

motion. Oh, okay. Go ahead. I motion to um move the PC draft review to the statutory review. Is that it? Statuto 65day review. Statutory 65day review. I second that. Okay, it's been moved and second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying I. I. Oppose. Abstension. Chair both signs. Next item on the agenda is the town center plan planning referral per CGS chapter 13 chapter 132 section 8-1 191. Mr. Chairman, this is a statutory referral as you indicated under CGS chapter 1328-1 191. That's the MA town center master plan that's been prepared for the town centered economic development commission um by Gman and York. It has been officially referred to us. uh we are required to to make comments. Um basically a comment back to them that it is uh if we believe so and staff does believe so and we've drafted a fairly specific um proposed resolution to this effect that it is that the plan is in accord with the POCD and we believe staff that it's in accord with the existing 2012 PC. It's in accord with the proposed COD. It's in accord with the town's center master plan that was done prepared by back when in essence it's in accord with every plan that this commission has and we would recommend that the that the commission approve um what is a specifically worded resolution to make sure we cross the eyes and dot the tees um as this is an official process that we have to go through. And secondly, if the commission has any other comments, uh we would suggest that

that be in a separate communication uh that I could draft on your behalf if you want me to do that. But I would first uh recommend that the commission pass the proposed resolution indicating to the town center economic development commission that their proposed plan is in accord with the uh existing and proposed POCD. Okay. At this time, chair entertain a motion on that. I motion to approve the resolution stating that the draft town center master plan is in accord with the town's existing and proposed plan of conservation and development. I'll second that. It's been moved and second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying I. I oppose abstension. Chair Volzai. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, point of personal privilege. Yes. First, I'd like to uh join in what other in welcoming uh Mr. O'Brien to this odesk group. Um, many of us do know him from before. My assistant actually worked for him in the past. Um, and has a real familiarity with him. I think we are very fortunate to have his knowledge and talents uh join us and I think we we and the town will benefit from from his presence on this on this group. Secondly, um it's sort of a this is a good and a bad. I would like to recognize uh Commissioner Blend who has um informed me um and maybe some of you that effective tomorrow she has submitted her resignation uh from this commission and the wetlands and watercross commission and I would personally and on behalf of the

department like to thank her uh for her exemplary participation commitment and uh to both commissions uh she will be missed she's moving on to bigger and better things and nothing better and um we wish her all the success and we hope that she uh does not remain a stranger and thank you Katie for everything. Thank you. Thank you. Um Mr. Chair, yes. Yeah. No, I and you know I enjoy and all that. I did want to come back for one second to the plan to the um town center plan. Yes. Um you mentioned uh the planner mentioned other comments on it. Um and I don't think we went to do it tonight. It's getting late. But I would point out that I think there are I think it's on page 74 or 76. There are a couple of suggestions they made about the TP, you know, the planning the the town planning and zoning commission in terms of helping development in the in the center. Uh, one of which I know is a long time um uh on the list of uh uh the planning department, which is the use of special permits for every every business in the town center type of thing. Um, and there are a couple of other things. So I would, you know, it might be a good thing for us on to sort of get a to make a short list of those or only a couple and have a discussion with it so we can give them feedback on those specific items. We'll do. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Well, where did I put that? Uh, was that old business, John? Did you uh make the comments under uh for Katie? I did.

Okay. So, at this point, the chair entertain a motion to adjurnn. So, move there. Second. Your last one. That goes.