Inland Wetlands & Watercourses Commission - Regular Meeting

Live streaming is on. Okay. Yep. We got the recording and live streaming. Okay, we're good. Uh where's Adam? I thought there was six. Five. Okay. All right. We'll call the Bloomfield Inland and Wetlands and Water Course Commission to order. Uh, Monday, May 19th, 2025. It is 7:09 p.m. In attendance, we have Paul. Hi. Byron, Len, Adam, and myself. That's five. Five. All right. First order of business, 529 Cottage Grove Road. This is a public hearing that was continued. Um, I was not here, but I have made I've read the minutes and I feel comfortable acting on it unless anybody objects. Um, so do we have a motion to remove it from the table and reopen the public hearing? And reopen the public hearing. So move. Who is that? Byron. Okay. All right. I will call Yep. All right. All in favor say I. I. I. Oppos. All right. Um Peter um George sentence in the

um documents last Friday. Did you have a chance to review them? I did. All right. Um, George, just so you know, I don't, you know, a while back we changed our regulations that all documentations have to be in a week before the meeting or it may not go forward. I understand. I had a a health problem. So, all right. I apologize. Well, if Peter had a chance any other members then didn't have a chance, you know. So just keep that in mind, please. Yes. Thank you. All right. So Peter, where do we leave off on this? There were um a presentation was made concerning this application. Um and the commission took some questions and comments. Uh but there was um some additional information that needed to be submitted uh including George's report um and that's why it was can uh tabled rather and continued uh to this meeting. So George, do you have additional information? And um can I can I actually start off because that was when I did the presentation last month and I think some of the information that was wanted is I'd like to identify yourself for the record. Um my name is Jim Cassidy. I'm professional engineer and principal with the firm of Halis Pearson and Cassidy at 6:30 Main Street Cromwell Connecticut. Glad to be here this evening representing Astero Holding um for the development of this property at 529 Cottage Grove Road. Um can I share my screen? there.

Can you see my screen now? Yes. If you can make it a little bigger, it' be helpful, too. Let's see. See if I can maximize it here. It's about as big as I can go. All right. Okay. I'll I'll blow up on the different parts, but um so we were before you last month. We uh put in a presentation for the development of this property at 529 Cottage Grove Road. I'm not going to bore you with all everything I I said last time. Um but uh just a couple things. Uh again, just a quick overview of the property. This is aerial photo of the site. Uh to the top is Cottage Grove Road. So north is up. The overall property is 4.44 acres of I1 zone land. Uh it is bounded on its uh east or to the right um by the co Connecticut railroad uh coot dot uh railroad rightway. It is bounded on its south and off to the west um by other property of uh the University of Harford who were actually inquiring this property from Northwest Drive. Northwestern Drive is off to the west or to the left. Uh the building you see here at this corner is the Starling Physicians building along Cottage Grove Road. Um we were before you last month. We put on a presentation and we received approval um for the uh wetlands line amendment. Um but we needed to continue uh the site plan approval. Um what we represented last month uh what's really changed um is staff asked us to take a look at what we can do to reduce impervious coverage. Uh we had presented this plan where I marked up in red uh what we can do to reduce pavement areas uh and allow for a safe maneuver of a delivery vehicle through the site. Um what we represented in on that plan is uh the areas you see in green would be areas that we are

reducing impervious coverage from the prior uh the original application. uh areas in yellow areas we had to add a little bit of impervious coverage to make the new circulation work on the site. Ultimately what it did is it reduced impervious coverage by about 3,370 square ft. Um so since such time and a new package of plans you have we did update the overall set of plans. Uh we are still proposing to build the 15,390 foot uh retail or commercial use building. Um but what we did also reduce is the number of parking spaces. Originally we had a 791 parking spaces and we are down to 80 sorry 87 parking spaces at this point. Access to site will still be off Cottage Grove Road. Right turn in right turnout. Uh but we are proposing the second driveway out to northwest northwestern boulevard. James if you could keep it to wetlands. Sure. would be uh because that's where wetlands are. Um so associated with this access, one of the other changes that had to occur is engineering department wanted us to make a hammerhead turnaround at the end of the roadway. That did slightly increase our activity in the wetlands area and slightly increase our activity in the upl area. But overall uh we have a reduction because there's two other areas that we reduce activities in the wetlands and uh in the upland review area. If I go to my activity plan, uh this is the plan that was presented to you last month. Um so I'm just going to blow up on the different areas to show where the changes are. So areas shown in red are where direct impacts to the wetlands. Um so when this driveway comes out to Northwestern Drive, uh we do need to cross the

wetlands uh for the construction of the driveway and some of our site utilities and a small drainage improvement. Um on the original plan we had 1518 square ft. U because of the hammerhead and reconfiguring of this area that actually increased to 1572 feet. So, it's slightly larger as the driveway comes into the site. Uh, additionally, um, there were two little wetlands impacts for this little isolated pocket here and a little peninsula for this area here. Uh, the original area was 190 169 ft. It goes down to 540 ft. So, it's actually a reduction. We reduced the width of the driveway through this area. Um, so it also helped reduce the activity in the uplander view area. Uh originally we're at 41,659 ft. We're now at 35,400 ft. Um so that's for this driveway utilities and also portion of the park lot and storm water management basin. Regulated activity number two was for the outfall of our storm water detention basin. Uh that activity remains the same uh is at 2230 ft. Again, this is about as far away from the wetlands as we can get and making the grates from the detention basin work to this outlet structure. Uh the other area that uh increased slightly um was uh you're George going to talk about it shortly, but we proposed uh in this area I have crossed in green uh is a flood plane mitigation area, but we're also going to use it as a wetlands mitigation area. And George will talk a little bit more about that shortly. Um so you'll see the area in the upland review area uh from the 200 foot regulated area for the water course uh increase from uh 4667 up to 6227. Uh the remaining area cross-hatched in yellow uh is the regulated area from 100 ft from the wetlands uh for the construction of the park lot uh and also the storm water

basin. uh this area was slightly decreased uh from 2795 uh down to 2653 uh by the modifications of the parking lot on this side of the building. Um excuse me. Um the other thing that had changed slightly um was because sorry got to go back one slide. U because we're expanding the mitigation area um at the southeast corner of the property. We'd also given you a plan showing what the cuts and fills uh were going to be in that area within the flood plane. Um on the plan that we had submitted to you originally um we had proposed that the area of cutting uh within the flood plane would be about 406 cubic yards and area of fill would be about 94 cubic yards. Uh this would have given you a net increase of about 302 cubic yards of flood storage capacity. Um but um and again George is going to talk about this shortly. He asked us to expand out this m mitigation area pushing it a little bit closer to the wetlands. Um so we've actually updated it based upon his recommendation uh where the cut's now going to be 549 cubic yards with a fill of about 111 cubic yards. So you're actually going to have a net increase in flood storage capacity of about 437 cubic yards. Um we talked about feasible and prunable alternatives last time. I can review them again if you would like, but most of them that were recommended as we've gone through the process, we've actually incorporated into the plans at this point. I would say the biggest thing to to know for uh feasible improvement alternatives, uh what we did is in the I1 zone, uh the parking along the front of the property is required to be back from the 40 foot front yard

setback. So, we actually went to the zoning board of appeals. We received the variance to allow for the parking to be 20 feet over the front yard sit back which allowed us to pull the whole site forward reducing the activities in the upland area in the the rear of the property. So that has been approved by ZBA that has been incorporated in the plan that was one feable and prudent alternative that we actually did incorporated into the plan. So with that I think George has probably a lot more to say than I do this evening. Um so I'm going to turn it over to George. Uh George, do you mean to share anything? Are you okay sharing your screen? I'll share my screen. Thank you. So, if you dish Okay, there you go. Let me do this if I can figure it out. Here we go. Oops. I can never understand how this works, but let's uh Okay. Can you actually Yep, you can. All right. I don't know if this is too big or too small, but you tell me. Anyhow, so George Logan for the record, Remicological Services. Um, as you might recall, for those of you that were there or reviewed our presentation, I did give you uh some information, basically the basics on this site and its regular resources last time around. At that time, I had not produced a weapons assessment report, which is something that Peters requested, which is typical for your commission to request. I did uh submit it. I had hoped to do it earlier that week, but I had some critical health issues that I had to take care of. And finally the I submitted on Friday and also brought copies over but I had put a draft of the narrative of it to Peter uh the previous day. So he probably had some some ability to review um this

report. So I just want to show you a few things here and talk about um weapon functions and values of the resources and then I'll hopefully end with the actual mitigation package. Uh, George, can can you change your view back to what it was? It was better before. How do I do that? Like this the other way? Yeah. You got to make the the shared screen bigger. Yeah. Maximize your screen, George. How do I do that? Hit the button in the upper right hand corner. Not the X, the one next to it. It should maximize it. Upper right hand corner. Upper right hand corner. In the blue. In the blue line. in the blue line. The blue line. Yeah. Yeah. That was it. Much better. Yeah. Good. Problem is I don't seem to be able to. That's not it. That's it. That's what we were looking for. Okay. Good. No, don't zoom. Go hit the arrow. Hit the the little square again. The problem with with doing that is that then it goes to half my screen. But that's fine. As long as you folks can see it, that's fine. Yeah, technology. Gotta love it. Anyway, um so little cockeyed is because I'm looking sideways. So this is the watershed for the Oman's Brook. And the little thing you see in the bottom there, that's our site. And the reason to show you that is we have obviously a very large over five square miles of waterhed that's coming down to here. The other thing I wanted to show you and this is all by way of explaining the functions and values of the major water course. Um this is kind of to give you a little bit of a landscape context more recent aerial photograph to kind of see the development around it. And here's where

this comes what you have here in this on this site and I'll talk about the isolated wetlands in a moment but Beman's broke wetland is probably one of your largest wetlands in the entire town. Uh my estimation is this entire corridor that you see here where you have Washbrooks coming in, you have Philly Brook coming in, you have another semi-permanent water course coming in here that doesn't have a name. All in the wershed of the north branch of the Park River, we all know where that goes. All this green area, which is according to the federal government is about 45 acres. I expect it to be larger than that. So, it's an access of 45 acres, probably closer to 47 48 acres of of a contiguous resource. So, that's obviously pretty significant for the town. What I also gave you was a couple of aerial photographs that are archived sort of kind of past land use. This is the 1965 aerial photograph. It shows you argument abandoned. So, this is coming back. It's kind of a scrub shrubby early successional area here in the uplands and little less so in the little more so meaning more forested in the wetlands and you might see that there's a structure here it's kind of very not very clear uh which has obviously been taken down but this is a lot more clear and that is you see the 1934 aerial photograph basically the entire site is nonforested except for significant trees along the um um you know the the edges if you will. And uh this particular one right here that we're not impacting thankfully there's a white oak that is about 48 to 52 in in DBH. So that's still there. Uh so obviously this is second growth and you see there was a wetland

here that's been taken. Uh a few pictures here kind of show you what we're looking at. This is wetland A, which is the flood plane wetland of Beman's Brook. Uh, this was taken last July. I've been on this site now, I think, five times. Um, the last one was in May. You'll see some photos of that. Uh, this is Bean's Brook at that time. Obviously, not not as much flow as we had the other day when Peter and uh, we were all out there looking at the brook. And, um, this is weton A again. You can see the these areas means that it temporarily floods. Of course, this is in July. So when the when it floods this area obviously has water in it. And now on the far western portion of the site there's a ditched there's a ditch. It's a wetland ditch. Obviously it's regulated and it's parallel to Eddie Street which I think is abandoned. I'm not 100% sure but I think it is. Uh, and this ditch goes all the way down to to the wetland in Beman's Brook and it receives storm water from an offsite detention basin and you'll see that in a moment. You won't see that, but I'll show you kind of where it is and you see it on the plan. So, what we have in the in the primary area, what we call the wetland activity area number one, which you saw in the maps where we're crossing, you'll see some pictures in a moment. Uh that's the overflow for the detention basin that I had to also delineate which is just just to the north of our access strip, our easement if you will. And the water actually flows to this area through an area that's highly disturbed. That's the one we are obviously redisturbing. Um this is wetland B. And as you

probably heard from the previous presentation, there are some isolated wetlands that are on the plateau. So not in the flood plane, but on the plateau obviously higher. And these are isolated and actually from a vegetative portion point of view. Well, these not as diverse. They don't have as many invasive species. Matter of fact, and almost non-existent. Whereas in the flood plane because it has a large watershed and a lot of things come in all kinds of invasive species but yet it has a much higher vegetative diversity and obviously function. Um back to being broke flood plane. This is in April of 2025. Uh you can see the shallow flooding here. And while we're talking about flooding, one of the things that Peter had me do is come back in in April, and this was the date, um, which is usually a good day to go out and make sure that we don't have any vernal pool habitats on the site. None were found. So that's, um, I guess one of the things that requested that we do. Uh, now again, April 9th, Wetland C, and this is the wetland activity area number one. So you can see my car parked there at the edge of the pavement and the road access will come in through here and come right to you. He's looking at this photograph. So this is the area that I said was previously disturbed and the overflow from the detention base and kind of enters here and kind of flows down to the ditch which is which is down here. This is the same area on May 10th which is my last visit and I'm looking from the exact opposite direction. So from here I'm looking northwesterly and from here I'm looking from where the car is roughly down through uh this flooded area. Um okay so uh wetland mitigation area I'll talk

about that in a little bit. Um but when we went out there with uh Peter and we were looking at some um areas where he was questioning wetland delineation, we kind of covered that and and that was uh sort of sort of to say speak to put to put to bed. Um but I was looking always and I was not particularly optimistic at first that I'd be able to meet the 1.5 to1 ratio of creating wetlands. um until we went out there and I knew that um we had to in the uplands take some upland out in order to have our flood storage compensation uh for the 100-year flood plane. And and this was the area that was going to the our level spreader from our second basin was going to be coming down and and and discharging to. So, what you see here is an area that's basically devoid of trees. Uh, lo and behold, there might be a sapling or two and it's just chuck full with invasive species. I mean, chuck full. And this is multifllora rose and aiatic bittersweet. So, this is looking easterly. So, you can almost see the u the opening there for the railroad. Um, you can almost see the railroad bed here. Kind of give you an orientation. And I'm so I'm looking that way. And this is where this wetland mitigation will go. And this is looking the other way from the far eastern end. Looking a little more westerly, probably a little more southwesterly than I indicate here. You can see one wetland flag here. I think that's wetland flag seven, A7. And we're going all the way to A10. And you'll see that on the plans

um off. Now this is again another again May 10th wetland A um past the rain not flooded. This is wetland B and I indicate what flag I'm looking from in a northwesterly direction. Uh RS B22. Uh this is again wetland B and this is the larger of the isolated wetlands. Remember, we have wetland B is the larger one, and then you have this other little one that's on the to the side. That's wetland D. Then, of course, wetland C is the ditch. Um, so this is a view of that. Again, very nice wetlands. And we're only nicking them, the far upper end where actually there has been a little bit of disturbance. I can see some evidence of past agricultural ditching. Uh, and finally, here's another one. Now, one thing that I noted, and it didn't occur to me until I was out there on May 10th, is that this is wetland B again. And I don't see the flags here, but they're right up against the burm. And this is the burm of the spoils from digging digging the ditch. So they took the spoils, dug the ditch many years ago, obviously you wouldn't have large trees on it, and put it over here on this burm, which is probably two and a half, three feet up maximum from here. And I think what's happened, which kind of was indicated in the soils, that this wetland be in part in part was created because of that bur because the water couldn't shut off to the west. Um, this is wetland activity area 2 where we're kind of nicking a little bit of wetland D which is that little isolated wetland. And this is the the furthest flag. Um, Rita, but I didn't. And this is my augur, which I've lost. It's somewhere

out there. I have to go find it again. That's my bad. And don't go looking. And this is wetland C, which is the drainage ditch again. Um, and that's my last B. Now, going back up, I just want to kind of show you some typical things and then I can answer questions on this or I can go to the mitigation. So, it's it's quite obvious that wetland A has all kinds of functions and values. Now I took in consideration the 6 acres of of wetland that was delineated on said property but obviously I told you there's a 47 acres going south. So that kind of informs my my uh functions and values assessment. I'm not evaluating the whole thing, but the one I'm evaluating is still taking into consideration it connection as being part of a larger wetland. And you can see all kinds of primary um principal functions which means that they're at a better than average level and sometimes high. Obviously, we have groundwater recharge and discharge depending on the time of the year. Uh flood flow alteration obviously it's it's significant for flood flow. flood flow alteration which is part of the reason we're doing what we're doing and then of course because of its watershed and the fact that you do have a significant amount of the watershed is developed and has a significant amount of impervious surface um I think my number is 55% of the wershed is developed or in the 50s at any rate and about 16 to 17% of it is imperative surface and usually when you get above it 10% uh wetlands like this will do sediment toxic and pathogenage retention and nutrient removal and transformation is primary and that's obviously something that's good because it protects the water course

itself and obviously wildlife habitat is is a primary function. Um now what I'm going to do is I'm going to switch to the mitigation plan. Um, here's our mitigation plan. And what basically I did, uh, this is at a 20 scale. So, I kind of blew it up. I think U Mr. Cassidy given me a 15 scale, but I figured I could put it. And so, what I've done here is I've shown you the plan. So, you can go back to the plan and see this is exactly what has been proposed. um contour I think about 79 to almost 80 is sort of the contour that we're taking to figure out how much wetland we're creating which is coincident with what's happening in the wetland next door and the fact that you take into the account that you're kind of a little bit of a a slope so you get a little groundwater just recharge and discharge and of course you have uh the overflow of of um our detention basin above. So 4200 square ft is practically two times the amount of wetland that we're disturbing which is 212 I think. So what you see here is um well what you see is what where I've placed the the the woody vegetation the shrubs and those are obviously identified on the on the tables that I'll show you in a moment. One thing I want to show you is that what I've done here is I put a series of of uh red cedars which I like. Sorry I don't like the Austrian pines or the white pines. They're too big. And that's going to create a buffer to our parking lot down to our wetland uh mitigation area. And then what you see here in the

middle and we might have to go slightly deeper. And so our base elevation I believe is 78.5. You're 78 in the wetland. So obviously that's going to be wet. And because we have a little bit of a part of a of the upland that's left here's your wetland boundary means we're going to be retaining water. So this is going to be seasonally saturated to seasonally flooded to temporarily flooded when we have a little bit of a storm. So we have an opportunity to have um button bush here. It's a little open so it it allows for sunlight. Button bush likes a little more light than not. They're semi shed tolerant as probably some of you know. And so I put a little bit of of my button bush here to create a little button bush. And I wouldn't be surprised that this will attract amphibians. I wouldn't be surprised at all. Um and I guess what I'm saying is we go out there and we figure that we need to go to down to 78 in the areas of the button bush, we will do that. And so that's a kind of a typical uh sight adjustment that happens at the time. So obviously it's become a little wetter. Here are the tables. Uh we got two fulls size trees uh 1 in caliber and then we have a bunch of red cedars 6footers willow sixfooters and another 31 shrubs. And you can see the button bush. We have 14 of those. And then we also have I don't show those but those are ones that we usually uh put uh and I obviously I would be involved and I'll show you that and these are 300 plugs of various uh hydrophes and um many of those have a

slight shade shade tolerance not you know they like the open um but they can be found on if you have dappled sunlight light. Um, and then of course seed mixes and then um whole bunch of pages of very detailed implementation notes for mitigation probably something you've seen from me before. Um, but here's the last thing I'll show you is this and this is the most important note that this is only going to be done by supervision of someone who has a professional experience for this will be myself or someone else if I decide to take off and retire to Greece or something like that by the time hopefully not not anytime soon I I assure you. So that's kind of where I am at. I will stop sharing and answer any questions that you may have or that you might have from U Mr. Cassidy. Thank you. Okay, Peter, do you have any questions? Um, actually I do. Uh, I was going to ask um Mr. Logan um about the storm water from the um parking lot being discharged into the into the uh mitigation area. Would it be is that part of the overall plan or would it be better to have it discharged, you know, not in the mitigation area? All right. So, it's a smaller portion and Mr. Cassidy can talk about what the watershed in amount of the previous sources. a smaller uh catchment area. The other thing that he probably will appine and and we've we've used these uh level spreader infiltrators um which have an amazing capacity of cleaning the water. So the there's a lot

of pre-treatment before we get to the basin. The basin itself is based on the storm water quality manual, the new the new revisions 2020 T24. Uh, and then we have this infiltrator, which Jim, you can tell me how many of these we've put in and we've monitored over the years. Many, right? Always have a lot of luck with them. Yes. So, yeah. So, our our storm water management system, as Georgia mentioned, we have two basins on the site. Um, this basin in particular is called basin number two, which is the smaller of the two, but it also picks up the smallest area of imperous coverage. Um, one thing we we that did occur with the modifications we made in reducing imperous coverage is we actually had the opportunity to increase the size of that basin. Also, um, the basin was originally designed to treat what we call the first flusher runoff, the 1.3 in as recommended in the 2024 D storm water quality manual. By increasing it, um, we actually have almost double uh the capacity to treat that first inch of runoff. Uh the basin itself is designed um to treat storm to basically treat storm water quality and let it infiltrate back into the ground. Uh it's not really designed for attinuation. Uh again just for treating storm water quality. Uh in addition to um as Georgia mentioned the second uh means is uh by discharging through the outlet structure to the level spreader. Uh no one's ever seen the way we set up this level spreader. What it actually is is a series of concrete galleries like you would have for a septic system. They are four feet high, four feet wide. Um, and we put them in a row. In this particular case, we're looking at a total length of about 40 feet. I'm just share my screen just so it's a little easier to explain. Uh, one second here.

And I'll explain what that means to the wetland when he's done. Okay. Um, so I'm sharing my screen screen again. So this is storm water basin number two. Uh so as I mentioned uh we actually increased the size of it when we pulled the impervious coverage over. Uh the square you see in this is the outlet structure. Uh so what will happen is the water will build up in it uh to a depth I'm sorry of about uh about a foot and a half. Um and that water will allow to infiltrate into the ground uh from the outlet structure. It discharges through a pipe onto this long rectangular area. This is the level spreader that we're talking about. Uh we like to do is we take these 4 foot concrete galleys and what we do is on the downs slope side uh we'll leave the top two feet of it exposed uh and then the bottom two feet is buried into the ground. Uh what this allows to happen is the water the first run of water into it. It's allowed to recharge back into the ground again. But if you have any larger storm events, it discharges to the wear or the openings in the top two feet of the structure across a stone rip wrap pad and then continues on into the wetlands area. What I like about this, and as George had mentioned, I can't tell you how many I've done at this point, and it's been very successful, um, is if you see a typical level spreader, um, typically what people have done is they've dig a long linear trench, uh, and discharge the storm drainage right to that trench, but it's an open trench, uh, that's set at an elevation of zero. Initially, they're great. The problem over time is if they're not maintained and you have trees that fall and die and fall into them, it starts to reduce that length of discharge flow uh that continues onto this wetlands area by having it buried underground. Again, we promote uh groundwater recharge um but also uh maintenance- wise if trees fall on it or if the debris falls on it, it is

consistently this 40ft length. And then you want to try to spread out that flow and make it back into what we call sheet flow uh non-conentrated flow uh to reduce the possibility of point discharge erosion uh to the surrounding wetlands area. So I let George talk a little bit more about it, but we've been very successful in several applications with this particular uh layout. Yes. So here's a couple of of things that are important. Obviously, um I wouldn't want water that's polluted and not properly treated to be discharged to any wetland, whether it's a an existing wetland or a created wetland. So, that's one because of what Mr. Cassidy just mentioned is that we're way above the 1.3 first flush or storm water, the water quality which is being infiltrated into the ground. Um, that means that I would argue that more than 90% of the typical storms that fall will be actually infiltrated before you see any discharge and the only things that going to be discharging are the larger storms. By that time, the ocean takes care of pollution andor everything has been infiltrated and cleansed before it reaches the wetland through shallow groundwater discharge. and then if it gets to the level spreader you have additional discharge. So I am not concerned about um say polluting because there will be more than enough attenuation of of anything. Now the other thing also to let you know that I've done is I there's always one issue with discharges that is difficult and that is salt. Everyone knows salt is highly soluble and so you can't really do much about it. Um if you have organics that helps a little bit and if you have plants that uh are tolerant or somewhat

tolerant of of um salts those that's good too which is what I've accounted for in some of the plants that I've that I've put out there. And so the seed mixes have a wide spectrum of vegetation and I would say about a quarter to a third of them are somewhat salt tolerant to salt tolerant and some of the the other vegetation that I've provided even button bush is somewhat tolerant to um to salt and the the rest of the shrubs as you saw what I did is I put them up a little bit so they're not not going to be in a they're going to be in a saturated or moist condition rather than uh being in a flutter condition. Obviously the button bush don't care but the others do. So yeah, I've taken all into consideration and I think that it will be more than uh adequate for you know the the attenuation will be more than adequate to ensure that we're not going to have an impact to the mitigation area. Any other questions? Peter. Well, while we gain mute, where where are you going to um plow the snow to? Where are you going to store the snow on the site? Um several areas. Uh hold on a second. Let me share my screen one more time. So, we have on this east end of the property, we have a large uh island area uh with large end islands that we put snow in. Uh we have this entire front of

the parking lot and then also down this entire western side of the property that we could put all all our snow. And that's not going to run off into the wetlands with the contaminants from the snow. It's going to run across the parking lot and then off eventually into the storm water basin. Okay. It's not going to run directly into the wetlands area. It has to go through one of our systems to get there. All right. It's not going to affect the traffic flow either, right? No. All right. Um, any other questions from the commission members? Yes, Alan. I had a I had a question. Um Glenn, yeah. Um so the mitigation area um below the basin two um did you say that that area is 4 4,000 square feet 4200 square feet? Is that yes the number the ultimate mitigation area? So, as George mentioned, what we're doing is we're grading uh this area down to an elevation about 78 and a half. So, the line that you see at 78 and a half and then there's uh the upper edge of it will be at elevation 80 is 4200 ft. Okay. I I've I've got the map that I recently got from Peter says 2400 square feet. So So that's incorrect. It's 42. Yeah. So again, so when George followed up with his recommended mitigation, he made the recommendation that we extend it further to closer to the wetlands. Um, so we did update it accordingly, but I didn't reprint all the plans um because I didn't finish games given late last week. Yep. Okay, great. Thank you. Any other questions? Peter, are you there?

Yes sir, I am here. Okay. Any other questions? Um, not for me. Okay. Any questions from the public? Is there any public here? No. All these people in uh attendees are for another application. Yes. Okay. All right. So, we can um close out the public hearing and move forward. We are settled set with all additional information. Right Peter? Yes. Um in fact, I would like uh you were asking if there were questions. I have some some additional statements. Um, you want me to wait for comments or do them now? Um, no, we can do comment your comments now. That'll be fine. Okay. I just wanted to say for the record that I did review um Mr. Logan's assessment report um and the mitigation plan. Um, and I am in agreement with his conclusions uh in the in the assessment report. um the uh the the proposed um regulated activities from what I could see determine um there there really isn't a good uh a good u prudent and feasible alternative uh to the um to the proposed uh wetland filling. Um and if we could I'm just going to ask Mr. Cassidy if he could put up the plan that shows the uh um the various wetland impacts so that

everybody's understanding what we're talking about. Um the driveway out to to Northwestern Drive is the key here on this project. I think without the driveway out to Northwestern Drive, uh it would be very difficult, I think, for the project to um exist or or work. So, um when Mr. Logan was showing you the pictures of the um the one picture where you could see his vehicle in the background, then he said there was another another picture looking the other way. All of that wetland is on the left hand side here. This pink or reddish um thing. And that was that was wetland A. No C. That one's wet wetland C. And if you look to the north there, there's a storm water pond on the adjacent property that drains through this subject property to the ditch water course. Um and that's that is uh that flow is proposed to now be piped through um and there's um there's a uh uh no there is an outfall for that pond which is supposed to be the the pipe that goes to the catch basin but I think it's over it has overflowed. Um, yeah. So, the the uh you know, without without those without these impacts for this driveway, I'm not sure that the project would be would be um tenable. The other thing that I'd like to note is that the driveway may have to shift a little to the south uh to comply with zoning um requirements

about grading next you know grading close to the property line. Um and so there may actually be um a different you know in the end a different uh a different um uh amount of of wetland impact but that's a that's a planning consideration not not a wetlands consideration. So uh you know they're uh they're proposing um uh some wetland impacts. They're proposing some mitigations. So for that as as far as that goes, they're in compliance with our regulations. Uh I made a a list quite a long list of re of recommended conditions. And if the commission decides to move forward uh with um this project after or with with this application, I should say after the close of the public hearing, uh the initial motion should include a statement regarding uh no prudent and feasible alternatives. And if the commission wants to talk more about that, I'm sure we can we can have, you know, some additional discussions. um the wetlands that they're proposing to to impact um are not the high quality wetlands uh that were found down by the by the u uh by beam and brook. Um but they are still you know regulated by by the wetlands act. So that's why they're here I guess. uh in you know I believe um we have uh storm drainage calculations which show uh zero net increase in runoff to the uh to the abuing properties as as is required. Um and the um uh the work uh necessary for the flood

plane mitigation uh was talked about a little bit here but there's some fill and they have to create additional uh volume which they're doing in this common com combined wetland mitigation and flood plane compensation area. So that's that's their, you know, that's the uh uh that's the additional volume they need for what they're filling in the flood plane. And I think I think there was I forget how many 400 plus cubic yards over now. You're you're going to pick up um so here's a summary. You're going to increase flood storage capacity by about 437 QS. So that work although strictly uh fall falls under planning um uh for approval of work in the flood plane it's also regulated activity for this commission. So I wanted to make sure that that that part was clear. Um, I have, uh, you know, I'm not going to read I'm not going to read all of the conditions, but I I'm pretty sure that they're, um, you know, they're, uh, I think that I believe that they are reasonable. I'm asking for, you know, my usual stuff with, um, uh, requesting a bond, requesting, uh, a, uh, an asbuilt at the end of things. Um and some some other ones uh that uh I think are important a total of 26 conditions of approval. Um if the applicant doesn't have any objection to the to the uh proposed uh uh conditions of approval, then we ask

them to make a statement to that effect for the record. Um, so unless the unless the commission has other questions for me, I'm I'm good to go. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had one other question that I wanted to ask Mr. Logan. Um, why did you find it um necessary or to differentiate wetland A from the other wetlands? Well, wetland A is a very distinct system. So, this is a riparian wooded wetland um that's associated with a major brook in town and it's in a different landscape position. Whereas the wetlands up top, those are isolated. So, they're in evaluating them, you have to evaluate them separately. So, each evaluation unit is each ecological unit sits by itself. So there's whereas there is obviously they're juxtaposed one to another. So you have the isolated perched wetlands. So these are perched uh so the groundwater is shallow. They're perched on those soils that are there uh not associated with beamman's brook. So that's typical for wetland scientists to differentiate um try to figure what the evaluation units are and we characterize them separately based on soil types. For instance, you have aluvial soils down in for the beams broke. You don't have alovial soils for the isolated wetlands. Um, so when the soils are different, the paramaterials are different. So the outwash materials versus the aluvial materials and then they're they're basically different different systems. So we always do that. We always characterize them try to figure out which units are obviously they're as I said they're

juxtaposed so they have a ecological connection which is quite obvious and that will continue but we characterize them based on a whole bunch of series of different parameters as to um different wetlands for instance um you could have had here if you had a slope and you were in till you might have had a um a shallow wetland on a slope. So that would have been a shallow groundwater discharge wetland versus one that's a perched one here. So it's it's different. So there's variety of classification systems that we use. And next time I'm before you, Lord willing, and I do a wetlands assessment, what I'll do, which I didn't do this time, uh, is to give you all the different classification parameters that we use as as wetland scientists to characterize different wetland systems based on drainage, hydraologic regimes, soils, geomorphology, etc. Right. So from the commission's point of view though um any impact to either of those kinds of wetlands the mitigation would be similar though right? Yeah similar obviously. Yes. I mean wet a wetland is a wetland is a wetland. So in in this town you have a a guideline a lot of towns don't where you want a minimum of 1.5 times the impact. that doesn't matter if it's a it's a wetland that's disturbed or not. So, in this particular case, we were very fortunate, I think, um to find an area that was conducive to wetland mitigation without taking a lot of trees or any trees for that matter, except at least next to the wetland. Obviously, we're taking a few trees up for the flood storage compensation, but it it's a perfect area. it's hydrarology is almost there.

So we don't have to be digging big holes. And and the other thing that I wanted to mention is by creating a wetland next to the most valuable wetland means that that wetland that we're creating by by that by that factor alone becomes more valuable. Whereas if we put it somewhere else was isolated uh in an upland area, we could dig a hole and put a liner and create a a wetland. It wouldn't have been as valuable. So where it is is probably and again we were very fortunate. I was not optimistic at first that we would be able to do that, but we were we were able to do that. Great. Thank you. You're welcome. All right. Uh, does the applicant agree with all the conditions uh by staff? Um, I'm going through them right now. Uh, so far I'm up to 20. It looks okay to me. Keep reading. Could we uh table this the next meeting or? No. No. I would say we're we're good with them briefly. I'm going over them quickly. Yeah. He says I'm texting the applic. the green light. It's okay. Yeah, me the applicant's okay with him. So, you're in you're in uh we're in agreement with the 26 conditions of approval agreement with staff. Okay. Yes. All right. So, is there any uh further comments? Is there any comments from the public? I don't think there are no comments from the public. Any comments from the uh commission? Uh Mr. Chair, I just want to add one thing. Um, I realized uh as I was looking at some of the materials ahead of this meeting that

um I should probably uh note that um because the uh property owner that's looking to sell is University of Hartford. my husband who's uh an independent he's self-employed he has a contract currently with University of Hartford he teaches one course there uh but he's a 1099 employee we don't have any financial interest in the university but in the interest of clarity and um full disclosure I want folks to be aware of that association in my household and they've made no contact with him about this project correct Correct. Okay. I I'd love more contact from the university like benefits and such, but not going to happen. Yeah. I have no problem with it. Nobody else does. The applicant have a problem with it? No, we don't have any problem with it. Okay. Okay. All right. Um, so is there a motion to close the public hearing? Moved by Got it. And since I jumped in, I'll second. Seconded by Paul. Uh, any further discussion? All in favor say I. I. I. I. Opposed. Abstain. It's unanimous. Okay. So now, what's the pleasure of the commission? Should we vote on this tonight or kick the can down the road? I really don't we don't really need any more information. Yeah. No reason why we can't vote on it tonight unless somebody objects.

I agree. All right. All right. Who's gonna make the motion? Dave W. Dave. Uh, Will Cox told me that Paul was going to do it. I will I will be happy to do it if it if it uh if it inspires regret that Kevin wasn't here to second. I will take pleasure. So, uh, all right. Let me, uh, see here. Um, hey, I'm sorry I said Dave Wilcox. I know, you know, it's Kevin Wilcox. Yeah, it's all it's all it's all good among commissioners. Yeah. Um so, uh let's see. I'm going to uh make a motion to approve the application for um 529 Cottage Grove Road and 12 Northwestern Drive. uh unique IDs uh 1880 and 1881. Um uh applicant is a stero holding company and uh that the application be approved with the conditions set forward by the uh wetlands agent and with uh further amendment uh that uh uh it's noted that there are no addition additional prudent and what is the other term? Feasible and prudent uh uh alternatives to the project, right? And there's only one zero at the end of the the first ID

number. Oh, okay. And uh what do we have a map date on that? What's the most current map? So in including the Am I okay to speak? Sorry. Yes. Yeah. Including the revisions that George made in his wetlands mitigation report, the the last revision date would have been May 18th of 2025. That's yesterday. Yep. I got the report Friday, so I made the changes. All my fault. All right. Well, we're glad you're feeling better. Yeah. Appreciate it. It's a little rough, but we're good. Good. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Glenn. Yes. Yep. Okay. All right. All in favor say I. I. I. Um opposed abstain. Chair votes I. It's unanimous. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much and have a good night everyone. You too. Take care. All right. Thank you. Next application. Wetlands map amendment for 579 Northwood Drive and 9 Westlytown Road. What do we have for that? Peter, I'm promoting uh Tim Hulie and uh Sean Simco. Do you guys want me to promote John? Why does John Casey have his hand up? Yes, if you could promote John Casey as well. He is uh our land use attorney on the

project. Uh he's just here more as the applicant's representative. He'll do a quick introduction and then Sean and myself will take it from there. Okay. So, uh m Mr. Chairman, we need to u open the public hearing. Do you want to give the uh this applicant the benefit of um the public hearing uh breakdown and what they need to do with only five members present? Yes. Um all right. The way we proceed with the public hearing is this is for strictly wetlands issues. is we don't want to hear about parking, traffic, anything of that nature. Um, since we're only are five, you need four in the affirmative to for a motion to pass, which means if the vote is 3 to two in favor, it does not pass. And you have the option to wait till next meeting and see if we get more members to attend or you can proceed now. Um, what's your pleasure on that? For the record, Mr. Chairman, good evening everyone. Uh, my name is John Casey. I'm a partner with the law firm of Robinson and Cole. We represent uh Burns Construction, the applicant uh here. Uh, I think we are ready to proceed this evening. I believe uh Mr. Castaldi still is waiting for some addition he requested some additional information. So my understanding is that the hearing on the map amendment will proceed and we'll get about 90% we we'll be able to present about 90% of what

Peter has requested and then the second public hearing on the regulated activities. Uh we may just want to open that and we can give you a brief overview but then continue it because we just um over a week ago we received comments and I believe Tim and his team at BL is working on satisfying those. So we don't want to present a project uh that's going to be changed even in a minor way because I think some of them obviously will have impacts on your uh review and decision. So if I if I have that right, I think it's makes sense for us to present to the five of you tonight. Maybe hopefully that a a member will be able to watch the uh tonight's video and be prepared to to act next month. Do I have that right, Peter? And Mr. Chairman, yeah, Peter, is there sufficient information to do the uh map amendment? Uh yes, there yes there is. Okay. All right. So, you want to proceed with the map amendment. Okay. Yeah. And I would I would recommend uh and and I agree with Mr. Casey that the the permit application should be opened as well. That public hearing should be open and a and a and a brief presentation made. But there's going to be additional information. So, I also agree with the recommendation to take second one. All right. We'll we'll discuss that when we get to it. All right. So, is there a motion to open up the public hearing for the map amendment? Paul, what do you say? I was just catching my breath from the last motion, but yes, I I will I will move that we open uh the public hearing.

Let me just get the info stuffed here. Uh uh public hearing on the wetlands map amendment for 57 and 9 Northwood Drive and 9 West Dudleytown Road. And uh the unique IDs for those are 5085, 5084, 5086, and 5087. Um applicant Burns Construction Company. Okay. All right. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Adam. Yep. All in favor say I. I. Opposed? It's unanimous. Okay. Who's here to represent them? Uh for the map amendment. Um, for the record, attorney John Casey from the law firm of Robinson and Cole representing the applicant. Um, we are here uh with our team to present this map amendment and as you're aware, as your regulations require, it's an application to amend the official map of the inland wetlands and water courses based on a recently uh based on recently delineated wetlands. our team here. I'm not sure if anyone else is out in the waiting room or you watching, but um there's Ken Ken Jr. and Joe Burns are the principles of Burns Construction Company. Uh their intent is to um make this site a contractor yard. Uh but also with us tonight is Tim Hul from uh BL Companies, professional engineer, as well as Sean Simco, the soil scientist um from BL Companies. I'll just state for the record I believe this afternoon

uh Jordan um Busloitz from BL uh delivered the sign affidavit and the mailing receipts to the land use office at town hall. I think we've we've checked that procedural matter and with that uh unless uh Peter has anything to add on procedurally I would turn it over to Sean to uh review the property his delineation and the new proposed map. Yeah, we did receive both the public hearing sign affidavit and the notice uh certificates of mailing from uh from the applicant today. So that part is is done and we're good to go. Okay. All right. So do we have uh you going to share a map? I can share my screen. I think if I can find out where to do that. Share button should be on the bottom. Oh, there it is. right in front of me. Here we go. Okay. So, for the record, my name is Sean Simco. I'm with BL Companies. I am the certified professional soil scientist and the professional wetland scientist that uh did the delineation and sitewalk for this project. Uh the initial wetland delineation was done back on October 17th of last year. I located two wetlands on the site. Uh wetland B. We can't see your screen yet. It turned green. You have to hit it one more time. Typically, let's try when you select the screen you want to share. Can you see it now? Nope. Share. Oh,

there's a share button. Oh, I got I bet you can see it now. Okay, there we go. Uh so yes, this is the uh the wetlands located on site um back in October of last year. Wetland B is a forested wetland in the northern area. Wetland area is A is also a forested wetland down here. Um there is a covert that connects both of these areas from the north to the south underneath the uh existing uh parking area. Um, basically like I said, this was done back in October of last year and then on I believe May 1st of this year. Uh, we had our site lock with uh several members of the wetland committee and we went out and did the normal procedure uh to verify the wetland line. Uh, we dug a lot of holes uh specifically in this location here to make sure um the line was as far east as it uh should have been. Uh there were a few skunk cabbages in this location here. So we uh dug quite a few holes to make sure the the wetland line was accurate. Uh same as down here, we we took uh additional uh soil uh observations just to make sure the line was correct. And there was also a suspect area in this location here. um a very small depressional area that we looked at the soils and concluded that the soils were not uh poorly drained hydric soils. Um so yeah, that's the long and short of it. Um if anyone has any specific questions regarding the wetland delineation, um I'll just keep it keep it brief. Uh Peter, do you have a staff report? Yes. um in your packet it's uh uh 15 pages in I think 16 pages in

something like that. Um we did get a um uh uh delineation report. Um I I included in the commission's agenda packet the the bound copies of of the uh application which included um some uh additional information but also included the the delineation report. So um I would I visited the site a couple of times uh uh uh on two occasions with members of the commission and Mr. uh Simco on one occasion and uh there were some you know areas that I had some questions about which we looked at in detail uh with Mr. Simco and those areas were the areas that I had questions about uh turned out to not not be wetlands. Um the uh uh um let's see, I'm trying to see. It was uh yes, it was May 1st that we were out there with um Mr. Simco and some of the uh some of the flags uh that uh were missing in the field were were rehung or relocated. Um the uh the delineation uh I believe is is accurate. Um I have some concerns that uh some of the uh on-site activities may have uh encroached into the wetlands uh in the area of wetland flag uh A1 and A I think it's 25. Yeah, it would be in this area here along. Uh, some new concrete blocks were were placed there. Um, and the the actual

point for I think it was wetland flag 25 as I recall. Um, was partially in the material that the I'm sorry, was within the material that was placed to so that they could put these concrete blocks down. um in the uh uh you know in in the other areas in on the site. Um particularly um west of wetland A um there was also some some minor encroachments uh in that area. Um but otherwise I think the the soil you know the soil flagging is accurate. Um uh the uh area uh of of wetland A uh was holding water. It was a pond on on uh most of the days that or on all of the days I should say that were out that I was out there. Um and in fact uh when test holes were dug um inside and outside of the wetlands on this site, the groundwater table was found to be very shallow. Um and and there was um you know we had been at that time um uh not have we didn't have a a lot of excess rain at that time although it had been uh it had been rainy and um I don't think the uh the wetland the wetland a um or the the pond that's in wetland a doesn't really have an outflow. So, it's it's isolated um in as far as the pond goes and the wetlands as as Mr. Simco mentioned are connected uh with a pipe under the back parking lot behind number number five. So, my recommendation to the commission is to

approve the application um and modify the official map uh to include the two wetland areas delineated by the soil scientist um with four conditions um including uh submitting a revised plan. um three uh paper prints and one uh fixed line myar for signing and the myar to be s uh to be filed on the land records. Um and if we can look at a uh a plan you could can you share the plan that has the wetland flags on it, the flag numbers. I believe Tim could share that. I'll stop sharing for you. Yes, I do have that up. Give me one moment here. Can you see my screen now? Yep. Yes. Uh, is there a specific side you wanted to see? Yeah. Let's start with uh the right hand side here. B wetlands B. Okay. I'm going to highlight this as we're talking just so it kind of pops out a little bit more. So, my recommendation is for the commission to to adopt uh um to modify the the map uh from flags B7 through B16. So, that's B16 and B7 is right here or to the clo to the property line closest uh to those points. Um the uh does this map show the official wetlands on it? It does not. No, it does not. I don't believe we have a map that includes the the official wetlands from the the town approved map. Do we have the wetlands map amendment plan?

Uh this is an existing conditions I believe. Yes, I can pull that up in one moment. Uh, I apologize for not having that up. Okay. Yeah. Then zoom in on this. See the the official map is in the dash dot line. So they um Yeah. I don't know. Can you uh can you hit the the max button? Make this bigger. Ah, yes. I I think we're looking for the upper right hand corner again to to full screen it there. That where just the flag was, Peter. Oh, that didn't work. Okay. Um, go back. Sorry. So, no, what I'm what I'm saying is is that we have to we have to figure out a way to make the the official line match up with with the flagged line. So, my recommendation is to do it at wetland flag 17 um 16 B7 through B16. So, it'll be at the property line over here. On the other side, it gets a little more complicated. If we could look at at that side, please. the a side. Yes, sure. So, um as we as we saw out in the field, um there's a gap between in the lower leftand corner between 13 and 14, I think. And there's also a gap

um in the wetland uh further north. 13 is here, 14 is there, and then there's a there's a gap uh between um I can't I can't read them here. I think it's 11 and 10. Uh there yeah, I believe no, between 11 and 10 should be closed. Uh between 13 and 14 is definitely open, but there's the corner up there by wetland A10. Basically, that corner is open. There's drainage to what is the west um basically to the top of the the screen. There is that is open and drains in a a ditch uh constructed ditch that goes up. Yep. But but it it also the wetlands also extend to the to the left here. That's actually to the south on this plan. But they they they um they continue on to the next property. And as I recall, they were continued. I mean know that the opening was between between 11 and 10. Uh no, that should all everything between 10 and 13. There's is that gravel drive or gravel um parking lot um from the adjoining uh property to the south. Um, I'm not sure that we're on the same page here. Uh, there there is a gravel parking lot, but it's not immediately adjacent. It's it's it's off and and I believe the wetlands extend to the to the on this drawing to the left. It's actually to the to the south um onto the property at 15 Northwood Drive.

Um, so Peter, wasn't there a burm there? What I Yes, there there is a burm. Unfortunately, this plan doesn't show the the uh So, what my uh my recollection was, and maybe we need another visit to see it, is to where that where that gap is. I believe if the gap is right at A10 then the wetlands extend into way into the next property. Uh well the way I delineated in the field is I I put flagging and points along the that gravel parking lot of the adjacent property to the south. So, I kind of went over the property line a little bit between A10 and A13, marking the edge of that wetland. So, that should be a solid wetland line there going up to that gravel fill parking lot. It does definitely drain between A13 and A14. It absolutely drains and continues to the south onto the adjacent property. But between A13 and A10, I delineate a solid wetland boundary along that gravel parking lot. Okay. Um would it help to have an aerial I could bring in? Yeah, I was going to ask for that or just or even the the plan we were looking at before with contours on it. Whichever you prefer. I can do either one. I have an area. Okay. So, I have Town GIF just so we could see approximate property lines here, but I'm happy to go to a different image if you prefer. Um, but zooming in, we do have the corner of that that gravel yard on the would that be the the western abuing

parcel here. And this is the the corner of our property that we're discussing. Uh, in this that would be the that southwestern corner. Okay. And can we can we see because we can't really see a lot on this. U you know the I believe the um the gravel parking lot is quite a bit further from the from the property line and those flags were right along the property. So can we see the existing contours please? Uh yes. Um I believe I have to take it out of full screen to flip sheets. So give me one moment. I can flip back to the survey plan. Here it is. Okay. There you go. Yeah. So the the there's a burm right there shown in with those contours and I believe the gravel parking lot is further to the left on this plan or to the south. So there and I also believe that there's an opening um so roughly in that area. Is that that where you were thinking Peter? I think you had marked that up on I know that we haven't gotten to the the full permit yet, but I believe you had marked that up on the full permit as well. So there So this I'm sorry, this plan doesn't look like the other one. Am I missing something here? You've got wetland flags um A13 and A 12 near the bottom of this page and then 11

Uh maybe I'm mistaken. I thought maybe I thought the one at the top here was was right at the corner. Yes. Uh there was an update. It looks like we did not get the update reflected in that survey, but the wetlands map amendment plan is correct. That one uh this does have a newer revision date on it. Okay. So my uh my recommendation was to uh uh modify u the official map modified to include the two delineated wetland areas at wetland flags B7 through B16, A14 through A25. um A25 through A1, A1 through A10, and A1 through A13. Line should be open between flags A 10 and 11 and A13 and 14. So, Mr. Simco, what you're saying is that it you don't think it's open from the whole way from from 10 to 11. That's correct. When from A10 to 8:13 I delineated the actual boundary of the wetland, it it goes to the the gravel fill area of that parking lot to the south, which is to the left of of the screen here. Okay. So, I mean that that's what I I took the line right up to their gravel fill as it stood on October 17th of last year. So, that that is the boundary of the line. Okay. Uh I'm okay with that um with that delineation. And as I said uh earlier,

I'm recommending that the commission uh approve the application with those four conditions of approval. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um any questions from the commission? Does the applicant agree with those conditions? accept them. Just uh for the record, John Casey again, I just want to be clear. So the fourth in the in uh Peter's memo, there was four recommend recommended conditions of approval. fourth was modifying to include to make the changes that we just discussed. But what I just heard was Peter saying that he was uh he accepted the delineation as uh Sean explained and as shown on the wetlands delineation map that Tim had up. So I just want to make sure that that's clear. So there there wouldn't be four conditions of approval. There would just be the three. Peter, are you satisfied that the fourth was um explained properly and cleared up? Yeah, the the fourth condition um really just lists um where uh the map will be amended at what wetland flags. Ah, okay. I don't think there was a question at wetland B, but there was a question at wetland A. Um so the uh Would you ex would you strike the last sentence of number four? The line should be open through flags A 10 and 11 and 13 and 14. No, I would I would cross the 10 and 11. It is open between and it is open between 11 between 13 and 14. Correct. Okay. Yes.

Okay. With that clarification, I think the the applicant is satisfied. Okay. Any other questions from the commission? Any questions from the public? There is no public. Any comments from the public? Any comments from the commission? Any last words from the applicant? No, Mr. Chairman. Okay. Is there a motion to close the public hearing? You're muted. Paul crickets. Paul, you're muted. You did that on purpose. I did. It's Freudian slip. Um, yeah. I'll I'll keep my streak going. Um um I I will uh I will make the motion to uh close the hearing for the map amendment on 5,7 and 9 Northwood Drive and 9 West Dudley Town Road with the approved uh with the approved uh conditions by staff. Yep. uh and with the change uh agreed to in item four that strikes that the line should be open between flags A10 and A11. Okay. Is there a a dated a map that has a date on it that we're referring to? We're talking about map WM1. uh should be dated December 9th of 2024. Really? Okay. All

right. Are you good with that, Paul? I am good with that. Okay. Still unmuted. Is there a second? Seconded. Seconded by Adam. Adam. All right. You're my Kevin tonight, Adam. Yeah. Um, nice. Okay. So, all in favor of closing the public hearing say I I I I uh abstain oppose. Um it's unanimous. So that's to close the public hearing. Right. Well, now that we got a vote on the uh No, we we to close and then we made another motion to approve with conditions. Correct. You're correct. Okay. So, that's approved. So, now moving down to the second item. Hold on, folks. I think we had a mixup. I think there should be uh a motion to uh close the public hearing separately. No, I don't think I don't think anyone second the motion to close the public hearing. I think both made it. I don't think there was a second. Was there a vote? Well, it wouldn't have been if nobody seconded it. I think we just maybe ran on it. Let's back up. So, Paul made the motion. Yeah. To close the public hearing. Is there a second? I'll second it. Who was that? Who said that? Glenn. That

was Glenn. Second. All in favor say I. I. Opposed? Abstain. It's unanimous. Now, Paul, you're making a motion to approve, right, the stipulation by staff for the to the the amendment uh on uh 579 Northwood Drive and 9 West Dudleytown Road. Uh the unique IDs 5085, 5084, 5086, and 5087. And um uh the wetlands map dated uh again that was was it December? Yeah, December 9, 24. Yep. December 9, 2024. and subject to the conditions uh set forth by the um uh wetlands uh officer uh with the one change in condition for striking that uh the delineation line be open between flags A10 and A1. Okay. And that was seconded by Adam. Yes. I won't speak for Adam, but yeah. Yes, I did. Yes. Seconded. Okay. All in favor say I. I. I. I. Opposed. Abstain. Chair votes I. It's unanimous. Okay. Sorry about that. Um, okay. Okay. The wetlands permit. Um I, you know, I don't like to backtrack. I mean,

if you want to give a small presentation, you know, I have no, you know, I do have a problem with, but I'll allow it. But if we're just going to backtrack at the next meeting and it could be changed, you know, again, for the record, John Casey from Robinson, Nicole, for the applicant, I I I'm of like mind, Mr. Chairman. Um, I mean the short presentation is the properties are going to be merged. The building will stay the same. We're going to do improvements on the um the existing parking and then we'll uh to the north of the building and the rear and we'll create a contractor's yard to the south. There was um comments uh by the wetlands agent uh that we are working on now and we expect to have those uh presented to the town to Peter for his review and ample time prior to your next meeting and we would expect to give a full presentation at that time um to describe the property better than I just did from a real expert and uh along with all the changes Yeah. So I don't think they're very significant, but there, as you know, you know, a little change here or there in wetlands permitting can make a big difference. So So that's where we are. I think you I would ask that you move to open it, but I think it's been noticed and published in the paper. So I think we need to open and then continue. Okay. So is there a motion to open it? Paul, what are you doing? So move. Is there a second? Byron. By Byron. Uh, yes, I made the motion. Oh, you made the motion, Byron? Yes, he did. Yes. And then someone second it, I

believe. Okay. Who seconded it, Paul? I seconded it. Adam. Adam. Much to my relief, both of you. All right. All in favor say I. I. I. I opposed abstain. It's unanimous. Um so we have it open. We got a short overview by their attorney. Uh unless anybody wants to hear more, I think we should just move on to the next meeting in next meeting with the uh public hearing. Any commissioners object to that or I think we need a I think we need a vote, Mr. Chairman. Well, we'd have to close the public hearing. No, no. To continue. To continue. Yeah. I mean, yeah. To continue. Yeah. But we're we're we opened the public hearing and now we're deciding whether we want to hear any presentation and then we'll continue it. Okay. Yes. So, just continue it. Everybody's happy with that? Yeah. But I think I think we need a vote to do that and and we'll vote to continue it. Okay. Is there Mr. Chairman? Yep. Sorry again for the record, John Casey. I would just say we we made our presentation and and we will, you know, I guess we were technically before we opened the hearing, but I know uh I think it's in it's in the record. Everything's being recorded. I would just sometimes people members of the public do show up the first meeting and they can't show up at a later meeting. Uh so since it's technically a public hearing, I'll leave it to your discretion, but just to make sure no one feels that they're not able to make a comment, right? That's all I would say and we'll incorporate all the uh attorney Casey's comments before the public hearing into the public hearing. Thank you, Chairman. And uh there is no public here. So

without seeing the crowd behind me or around me, it's hard to know. Uh so thank you for clarifying that on the record. Is there a motion to table this to the June 16 June 16th meeting? So moved. Made by Byron, seconded by Paul. Second. All All in favor? All in favor say I. I. Opposed abstain. It's unanimous. Thank you. We'll see you next month. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, members. Have a good evening. Yeah, Paul, you got to be quick. I'm off my game. I'm off my game. All right. Uh, new applications, none received. Wetland agents received and approved, none. Enforcement actions. Yeah, I I did actually receive a wetlands agent permit uh since I published this agenda. Uh and it's for 1355 uh sorry third I think it's 55 or 1335 Blue Hills Avenue. Um the uh there's a a facility there uh it's uh the name of the company is TOPS and they do countertops and they have Huh. The old Alvin Alvin. Yeah. The old the old Alvin property. Oh yeah. Yeah. Uh and they have a water cutter for their for their countertops to cut the stone. Yeah. And the water cutter uses u a recycled recycled water. They can't use dirty water, but the cutting just like cutting with a saw generates some dust

or some some grit. I think it's pretty fine. So they they want want to build a uh an outside in ground tank to temporarily hold water for this cutting process. Uh it's recycled in internally. Uh there's no discharges out. Uh but the hole that they already dug uh is is in the upland review area. So I made them come in with a wetlands agent. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. The hole they already dug. Yes. Um I forget the number. Um but it's not a huge tank. It's not like a you know it's not it's not hundreds of thousands of gallons. It's a relatively small tank. What happens to the sediment? I asked that question too. They the sediment is filtered out and um that he said that they make bricks out of it that can be used for um um you know not for building buildings but for landscaping and stuff. He says or sometimes it goes to the to the landfill but they uh they uh they don't want to pay for a lot of clean water. So they're paying to fill the tank once and then they're recycling that water over and over again. So what is that back up to? The Canain farm. No. Uh it uh let me look. I don't know. I can't think right right off. Um it's a fairly deep lot off of Blue Hills Avenue. Yeah. So it uh Yes, it does. You're absolutely right, Alan. That's pretty good that you knew that. Um yeah, to the south there's some un undeveloped property owned by um the

Canain Estate now, I guess. Yeah. So, is there a u a brook back there? There is a water course back there. Yep. Um, it flows uh from uh west, I'm sorry, northwest to southeast across like the Southerntherly property line. Um, and it eventually drains down and under Old Windsor Road um near West Dudleytown intersection. But yeah, my if if you uh well, I can do this, I suppose, can't I? uh we have this new technology. So I'm going to share my screen and I hope you all can see this. Yes. Okay. So it is 1335, not 1355. Um, and there's a uh uh there's like a gravel driveway back here and and the the hole that they dug is in this corner right here. So, it's pretty close to the brook. Yes, it is. Um, and one of the things we have on our new GIS, which is kind of neat, um, are one foot contours. So these these heavy ones are five feet. So the the brook is down here at 130. The site is up here at 150. So they're 20 feet above the brook. And the hole is maybe 4 feet deep. And that's a sandy soil, too, isn't it? Yes, it is. And this hole will be a concrete line. It's not going to just leech into the ground. Okay.

So, it's going to be it's going to be like a fuel tank encased in concrete. Uh, yeah. I think it's my my understanding again is that it's, you know, it might be a 5 foot by 10 foot by 4 foot deep hole. That's the size of it. It's not huge. Yeah. So, how'd you find that if it's in the back of the building? Um, our our eagle-eyed building officials pointed it out to me. Oh, they when they were when they were reviewing or when they were inspecting in the field, I think some other work, you know, because and I I don't know how these how these uh water jet cutters work, but you know, you need you need some it's fairly sophisticated equipment. probably need, you know, uh, you know, electrical work and certainly plumbing work. Something has to drive that pressure up. Yeah, I've seen it. It's a mess and water is everywhere. Yeah. You know, well, that was that was my only agent permit uh to come in since the meeting. Um, so you feel comfortable doing it? Yes. Okay. Yes. I have no problem with it. If you run into a problem, then have them come here before us. Oh, yes. You know, I will do that. Yeah. But it's a messy process. I've seen it, you know, just a lot of water. Yeah. I mean, and it was where do you saw the when you saw it? Were there floor drains? Drains in the floor? No, it was it was a halfbaked operation. Okay. It's my understanding that that there that there will be a floor drain that will drain through this filtering system that they're going to All

right. Anything else? Oh, enforcement actions. So, with Lincoln Drive there, I have not had any communication with um the gentleman at 53 Lincoln Terrace whose name I can't remember right off. Uh Mr. Mirage. Mirage. That's right. Um but um at the last meeting the commission wanted him to, you know, to um approve the two-year plan. Um, I sent him the the two-year plan and I haven't heard anything back. He's scheduled, I believe, to be heard again in at the next meeting in June. Um, regarding the enforcement action at 61 East Dudleytown, I was out there today uh this afternoon and they have moved the material that was encroaching into the wetlands out of the wetlands and they have installed temporary erosion control measures that are much better than the ones that they had before. Um, so I'm satisfied with that aspect of their progress. Um they too are coming back uh I think in June maybe July um with a uh with an application uh for the whole site. I think it was June they were coming was it? Yeah. Okay then maybe it's Mr. Mr. Mirage we're not hearing till July. I don't think they were the same date but could be wrong. Uh so that's the updates there. Um, yeah. If you go out to Lincoln Drive again, let Lincoln Terrace, let me know. I'd like to walk it with you. Okay.

And give him some time to do something, but I got a feeling he's not going to do much. Okay. Uh, you know, regarding that, we had um the occasion several years ago of uh issuing a um a fine that was regard, you know, as part of a it's part of a notice of violation. Um we filed something on on the land records for that. Right. Right. Maybe that's something to consider, you know, if if we don't get any action on on Lincoln. I think that's something we should do now. Um just so that, you know, we forget about it and it slides through the crack and six months down the road he sells the property and the new owner says, "What's this?" Um, it was on Crystal, Crystal Lane that we did that. Yes. Yeah. For the new members, that's uh a contractor. They had two houses. We ended up finding them $20,000. It was over a year's time. Um, and we put 10,000 on each house. One house we sold. The other house he hasn't sold. I believe he's renting it. It looks like he's renting it, but there's still a notice of a violation on the land record. So, when he goes to sell it, the town will get the $10,000. Yeah, I believe the both properties have sold and we that fine was was paid. Was it? Okay, good. Yeah. Do you remember what it was called? What we did? It wasn't a lean. It was something else. It was an assessment of

fines. I think that's what we we called it. Yeah. I don't I don't recall. No. But that's something I mean right now all we have is a uh uh two-year plan with you know the possibility of funds. Yeah. Well, you know what? So maybe on the next agenda next meeting put an agenda item and notice of violation to be posted on the uh land records. Okay. as an agenda item and then we can discuss it. Sure, I can do that. Any other violators? Oh, no. No. Uh, none that I observed. You wanted that uh lingan terracing on the on the June agenda, right? Yeah, please. Okay. Okay. Um I can if if you're okay, I can give a brief status of some ongoing projects. Okay. Um the uh um the condominiums at uh Ryfield Village um are getting close to being finished. They had I want to say 92 units on Ryfield Hollow Drive or Ryfield Village Drive. Uh and they're they're down to their last one or two buildings. So, that's going to be, you know, that that that project will be finishing up very soon. Um, we're trying to get

through the last requirements for um the final CO at uh the apartments here in town at 20 Jerome Avenue and the uh um the project at 10 uh Mosy Drive, which was a cannabis grow facility. Uh apparently they're done too and they have requested a final um final inspections. Um the uh condominiums at uh 17 Watkins Road are moving ahead. They're going to be starting construction um this year. Um and we had a pre-construction meeting um but there were still a bunch of technical um revisions to the site plans um that were uh communicated to them. Um we have uh a new town engineer um Rob uh Troyier. Some of you may have met him and um you know he takes a slightly different approach to um how we communicate what we want on the plans to the to the applicants. Um and it involves uh marking up a set of plans on uh on the computer. Um, and it generates a um a PDF of the plans with the the recommendations called out um with arrows and and notes. And it also generates a list um in text form. So you can submit, you know, we we typically would submit a recommended conditions, I'm sorry, recommended revisions in list but not in plan form. And he wants to do both. So, we're we're I'm still working through how all of that how all of that

works, but um there was a you know, a large uh set of these revisions that were sent back for 17 Watkins Road and and uh we're waiting for that and for them to post their their bond and then they're going to start over there soon, too. Um, the other one that I wanted to mention that got off the ground this month was uh the project on Douglas Street 59 57 or 55 I think it was 5759 Douglas Street um and they've they've uh cleared the land and they're getting ready to do their um mass earth work. uh erosion controls were inspected the other day and are in good shape and they have um you know some uh tree stumps to dig out and uh they're going to start earthwork over there very soon. Um it's a self storage facility. I don't know if I mentioned that before. Um but those are those are the projects that come to mind. I'm sure there's other ones out there. Um, I don't know if the commission members have any questions about specific projects. Um, but I'll certainly try to answer them if you do. Can't think of any. No. When's the library going to be done? I don't I don't know what the date is for the for the completion. Sir, did they take down the trees uh next to the brook? I know there were some that they were going to take down. Yes. Yes, they did. Um they uh we talked

about it at least six months ago with with with the guys. Um the um the project included this quite long foot bridge across the across the brook, right? Um and it arrived on the site in three pieces. Uh and they had to um connected I don't know if it was welded or bolted or both. um in the parking lot across the brook then with a crane lifted up and turn it 90° and there was a clump of trees in the way and they talked with me about it and said we we got to we can't clear uh we can't clear the trees because they were 40 feet high or something and I said okay if you're going to take those out then you got to replant them you know with with more and so there that is part of the plan um I had a meeting with the architect, I believe, um, not too long ago. And one of the, uh, one of the things that we asked them to do is to take care of the invasive species along the brook on both sides. And so, uh, they had Japanese knotweed growing there, which is very hard to get rid of. uh and they're they're working on uh getting it uh you know uh graded out properly and they have cut down all the Japanese knotwheat but it's going to continue to grow and they want to um give it another year or two of cutting down the Japanese knotwheat before they finish the actual landscape plantings along that uh what would be the uh the east side of the brook. So, and they didn't think they would be

able to get that done before um they were ready for a CO. Um so, we're going to have to cross those two bridges when we get there, but for the most part um it seems to be moving along. Um I you know I don't get over there every day or even every week but there's there's a you know a lot of work happening and uh it looks like they're getting close to being ready to open but I don't I don't know what the date is. Okay. All right. Anything else? I guess we got a vote on the uh minutes. Yeah. Anybody have any on the draft April 21st minutes? I had a couple of things. Uh Peter, on page two, um item two, you you mentioned Andrew Quick and Andrew Quirk. I don't know. I can't recall which it was. I think it's Quirk, isn't it? Uh, that's the property we were just talking about. The uh they were moving stuff out of the wetlands. Yes, I think you're right. So, uh, it's just in in the first sentence you say Andrew Quick and I think uh several other times during the the recap you say quirk. So yes, it's quirk. Okay. So then if you just fix that first one. Yep. And then um one, two, three, fourth paragraph down that ends with official wetlands map. You just need a period. Still on

page two. Yeah. Okay. Yep. And Oh, I see. It's in the first sentence. Yep. After the word south on the south what? South side. Uh, wait, where are you now? I'm sorry. I'm in the one, two, three. I'm in the fourth paragraph. The property owner submitted a survey of the southeasterly part of the property showing present limits of the operations on the south. Yep. That fine to me. What I'm saying is at the absolute end of that paragraph there's no period. Oh my goodness. Yeah. No, on the other I understood that to mean on the south side of the property. I mean Oh, okay. you know, limits of the operations. You could say to the south, but uh I you know, it read fine to me. Okay. I'm going to say to the south. Okay. I'm I'm no Katie Blint. That's all you're going to get out of me tonight. Okay. Anybody else? I didn't I didn't see anything. Okay. Byron, what about you? Okay. All right. Is there a motion to accept the minutes as um corrected? Make motion to accept the minutes as corrected. Made by Glenn, seconded by by Adam. All in favor say I. I. I. Uh abstained. None. So it's unanimous. Okay. Uh any comments from the public? Now, let's uh let's do other business

because I have a a big project for other business. Oh, you waited to the end, huh? Well, it's other it's other business. It's almost uh All right, other business. What do you got? Some of the commission members may recall a couple years ago uh the uh Metropolitan District um was doing uh sewer lining projects all over town. Yeah. and they have to cross wetlands and they have to get into some pretty um mushy areas. Uh and they did the easy ones they told us in phase one a couple of years ago. Now they want to do phase two which is not the easy ones. So this process involves um setting up uh bypass pumps and isolating a section of pipe between two manholes. Then they clean the pipe and they put in a a a rubberized plastic kind of a liner that's soft and they fill the liner up either with hot water or hot air to cure it and it extends the life of the of the pipe. It eliminates one of the biggest problems with old sanitary sewers is that they get a lot of water coming in from in the pipes from the ground. Um, and it it uh it definitely extends the life of the of these pipes, many of which are uh 4 foot sections of 18 and 24 inch concrete. They're, you know, built in the 1950s. Um, and early 60s in in MD in MDC's wisdom, they built a lot of these sewer mains uh right along the brooks. Um, and I think they figured that if all of the brooks flow into Hartford, the

sanitary sewers will too if we build them along the brooks. Anyway, so they have to get into some pretty pretty uh um wet areas. In 2023, they came to the commission and got uh um you know, went through the procedure and got a got a permit from the commission. Um, uh, they're also going to need permits from, uh, the, uh, DP who reviews the Army Corps permits, and they may actually have to go for individual Army Corps permit. Um, but they uh, they wanted to uh, uh, you know, they they wanted to present it before they came in with an application. Um, so we're at the pre-application stage. I told him it's going to go going to go to the wetlands commission. Um, but the question for you guys is whether you think it would be uh advantageous to have a public hearing for this project. Uh, and that and the pipe sections are all over town. They're not all in one place. Are they going to do all of them at once? Uh, no. Application for all of them at once? Oh, yes. The application would be for the entire project. Okay. Now, two things on Crystal Lane. I noticed all their pipe stacked up there. Is that the pipe they're going to use? I don't know. I haven't been over to Crystal Lane in a while. Recently? Yeah. Yeah. Like uh this month? Yeah. There was a bunch of pipe there. I I know at one time they were working on it over there, but I thought they were done and then I saw a bunch of pipe. I don't know what that What did the pipe look like? Was it green or was it black? Black. Black with I think yellow stripe. And how big?

Uh, it wasn't more than uh five, six inches. Okay. That could be gas. Black with a yellow stripe could be gas. Yeah. four or five inches is is big for gas but not but too small for water or now there there is if you've driven down there you've seen the the MDC is also doing a water main replacement in that whole neighborhood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's another big project for them. Yeah. And the other thing is they came before us for that project on um off Kadic Grove Road. Where was it? It was through the woods by Dunkin Donuts on Kott Road and it went I think that was I think that was part of phase two. Uh phase one rather. Oh, I think that was part of phase one. That was an easy one. They did the easy ones first. Yeah. What I'm saying is that was an easy one. Right. Right. Uh, wow. So, I I think um I think it, you know, it it uh I think it would be good to have a public hearing. Um the uh the requirements of public hearing that they notify everybody within 500 ft of the project. That's going to be a lot a lot of people for this one. And I didn't if they do them in sections and not everybody at once. Yeah. But they're coming in for a permit for the whole for the whole thing. So we if we did a public hearing, they'd have to notify everybody within 500 ft of that of that line, you know, all around town. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe that's okay. You know, it's a fairly big project. All of

the All of the impacts are supposed to be temporary, which is good. No permanent impacts where they have wetland areas or even water courses that they need to cross. They'll be using um timber mats and some kind of temporary bridges to get over the water courses. Um, and in some cases they're going to be working in some fairly remote areas or areas that people don't don't go through a lot. And uh um even longer than a few years ago, maybe five or even 10 years ago now, the MDC had a had a project um where they went through and they clear cut all of their rideaways. Um, yeah, they took the trees out and it was in preparation for this kind of a project that were this lining project. So, they may have to cut a little bit of vegetation in a couple spots, but for the most part, these easements where the water where the sewer is is is open. Probably these pipe these pipes you're talking about, Peter, are are sewer pipes. They're not drinking water pipes. Correct. They're sanitary sewer pipes. And for the most part, they're the main pipes. Um, in the street, you have sanitary sewers that, you know, eight maybe up to 12 in in diameter. But when you get outside of the street and you start picking up the, you know, the bigger uh, you know, multiple neighborhoods, the pipe sizes have to go up. And some cases, they're 24 inch or 24 inch concrete pipe is a pretty good size pipe. So, yeah. Uh, they're not digging up and going to replace the pipe. They're going to put a liner in the pipe. They may dig a hole and place a liner, but they're not digging them all up and putting them in. Yeah.

They're going from manhole to manhole. So, there's no excavation at all, right? Uh, they talked about uh having to uh create some temporary ramps where things are steep or some minor grading that will um allow them to get in there. uh moderate um amount of the area is is uh is you know not wetlands. Um they have also as I'm talking about this I'm remembering um they have a uh on their plans they have a 2015 I think wetlands delineation but only in the 20 foot easement. Um, and I haven't seen detailed plans yet, but I'm guessing that they're probably going to be pretty close to what we have for for wetlands. Um, and I don't think we did a map amendment for the last for the last one. Um, but what do you think? Do you guys want to do uh a public hearing? I think it could be pretty ugly. I mean, I my instincts tell me that if they were going to do a section, wanted to get a public hearing for one section of town and then another later on, that would be fine. But to send out 500 letters to people that say that they're doing this project, I I think you're looking for a nightmare. But I'm a pessimist. So you know okay so then I will not initially let's hear from the rest of the commission you know well is is there given it's a sewer

system um usually people are not as interested if it was a a drinking water system they they'd be all over that. Yeah. But but a sewer system, you're probably not as into that. Uh but is there is there a requirement uh that we have to hold a public hearing for this? Uh there is not a requirement. Um the requirements for public hearings are if there's a uh significant wetland impact or water course impact. um if the commission decides that it public uh a public hearing would be in the public interest. And the third one is if uh uh I think it's a signatures on uh 25 people can sign a petition requesting a public hearing and those are the three requirements. So, um, like the last application that we heard tonight, they don't have any significant direct wetland impacts, but I recommended strongly that they have a public hearing for their permit application because of the of that um uh petition uh issue. Um, it's and the petition is to have a public hearing when one isn't scheduled. So if you schedule a public hearing, then that petition, you know, is is no longer something that can be applied. I mean I mean there's no impact to the wetlands. There's no impact to the drinking water. Yeah. The the Well, Peter, you said there is a there is a temporary wetlands impact. Yes. So, as they move equipment in and out of there, I presume, right? They have a mitigation.

Pardon? They put down a mat like when they do clear cutting treat harvest. So, it's temporary and they have a standard mitigation plan for that. Um, I mean, are there conservation lands they're they're engaging in or anything like that that's going to bring out the land consery or or interests like that? I mean, it would seem to me that if we we just heard if we just um did a standard permit with the commission, we would see and have all that on the record for any concerned citizen rather than, you know, an extravaganza hearing covering, you know, points all over town. Yeah, it's Yeah, it it is problematical. I mean, uh, some of the, uh, some of the land, um, I'm sure is under conservation somewhere along the line. Um, they have a right of way on it or Yeah. typically they have an easement which says, you know, we can go in and work on our on our plant, on our system, maintenance. And that's kind of what they're doing. They're doing long-term maintenance on these pipes. Um so they said that uh the machinery necessary to do the lining does not require heavy equipment. The only heavy equipment they would need would be to to do grading or to create uh temporary ramps and it would be temporary grading. They'd have to put it back all for access, right? Byron, do you have an opinion?

You're muted. Um, yeah. I don't know. I I think I agree with you, Chair Chairman Allen. Um, it might be more trouble than what it's worth. Um, yeah. But that's just my opinion. Well, Um, also the commission can decide after they see a presentation that they want to have a public hearing. Okay, let's do it that way. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, um, yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. So, when they're ready to present, we'll we'll know more. Yeah. Like if a thousand people show up, then we got to have a public hearing, you know? Okay. All right. Is that it for other business? Yes. All right. Um public comments from the public? Nothing. All right. Is there a motion to adjurnn? Make a motion to adjurnn. Glenn does the honors and seconded by Paul. Sure. All in favor? I I abstain. Um it's unanimous. Thank you, gentlemen. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Let me uh turn off the live streaming service here and stop recording. Yes.