Inland Wetlands & Watercourses Commission - Regular Meeting

Becca, are you all set? Yes, it's in progress. Recording. Yes. Wait, do you have the streaming on and the recording? Yeah, it's being recorded. The recording is on. Recorded. Yep. That's the streaming, but we also need to YouTube. YouTube is also all set. They're both They're both on. Yes. Yes.

I only see one. Okay, I see the other one recording. Okay. All right. So, we're calling the uh zoning board of appeals fields and zoning board of appeals to order. Monday, April 6, 2026 at 7:35. The legal notice is um one item for public hearing 180 still road applicants of zoning regulations 3.7B.1 accessory buildings and residential zone front yard accessory structure prohib prohibited for a playground and would accommodate for a playground and would accommodate children in attendance. That's it.

Right. Thank you. Um for attendance we have um Alan Vicovski, Pansy Archer, Seth Pittz, Jackie Isacson, uh Shelby Maben, and Stephanie Calhoun. So the five regular members will be uh voting on this application. Okay. Um, so do I have a motion to approve the minutes as amended? Motion to approve. Was that you, Seth? Thank you. Yeah. And a second.

Second. Okay. Okay. And all in favor? I I Thank you. And Okay, public hearing. Oh, wait, that's the men. Never mind. Okay, sorry. Uh, public hearing. Um, so Joshua, if you would state your name and address for the record and then tell us uh what your uh what you'd like to do and why it causes a hardship. Do we want to read the notice or I did that.

We did that already. Yeah, I'd be happy to. I'm Josh Potit. Uh I live at 21 Greenbryer Drive in West Hartford, Connecticut. Uh and I am the lead pastor of 180 Life Church on 180 Steel Road. We we had the name before we had the address, but it's crazy how that worked out. Really? Yeah, we did. It was It was wild.

So, yeah, we we purchased the property back in June, end of June. We moved in in November. Uh, one of the things that has been incredible is we've been looking for a church home for the last 20 years. Uh, so finally had one. We were in Connard. We're 20 years before that, Connard High School. Uh, and it it's been a ride. One of the the blessings is now having like a footprint in in our area. One of the challenges has been we have a lot of young families in our church. That's a it's a blessing. That's what we aim for. We want that. Uh, however, what happens is we have 80 to 100 kids on a given Sunday. We're not going to count Easter because that is that's even more crazy. Uh and then what we're needing to do is have a safe place for our kids to to play and engage. The reality is we have a culture uh and we had this back in Connard where like we're going to get outside and we're going to we're going to hang out. The kids are doing that anyway. So they're they're in the green space. We've already seen that as the snow dissipated like they're out in the green space already playing. What we're trying to do is have a place that is a little more secure uh and can be a place that can be maybe even a little bit further from the road because right now they're using the full green space uh and bring it back towards the building secured. Hopefully we'd like to have like a fenced area for it uh that can hold our kids be a safe place for them to play while while parents engage in fellowship in the way that we've always done. Uh because of the shape of our property that's the only space that we can do it. Uh we have a very if you look at I I think one of the documents shows the shape of our property. There's no place in the rear or on the sides for us to accommodate a playground of the size that we would need. Uh and so because of that, that's that's the hardship is it's the only place we could do it. Uh and it's a common not just a common practice, it's a it's a big need for our church and most churches have this if you've got a young congregation like we do. And so that would be the the short spiel. I could you can ask my congregation. I can

talk for hours, but I'll I'll leave it at that for you guys. Don't um Okay. And you said you're going to fence it in. That's the plan. Uh so it's got to get voted on by the elders. If this board said it had to be fenced in, then we would 100% do that. Uh if not, I still I still think we would, but I can't make that promise without a vote from our board. Um, anybody on the board have any questions? Um, yeah, I do. How many how many kids is this going to accommodate the playground? Yeah.

Yeah. Best practice would say that it would accommodate between 60 and 90 kids at a time. Uh, we have about 80 to 100 on a given Sunday, but we're not assuming that all would be in there. That includes kids that are three and under. Okay. Uh that that count I gave. And how deep are you digging the um the post down? We haven't gotten that far. Um we would do it whatever to whatever regulation standards there are. And is it the uh is this the company you're using? Pro playgrounds.

Yeah, we're we're not signed with them. We didn't want to sign until we got the variance for obvious reasons, but that's the one that we intend to go with. Yes. And you've seen other playgrounds that they've done and we're happy with it. Yeah, they do a good job. Okay. And you're you're staying out of the sewer ement? Yes. Now, there's a sewer line that runs down the right side of the property. I walked to that with uh Seth. I know you're on the call in the in the wetlands area, Alan. No, but um you'll see the manhole in the street. There's a manhole for the sewer.

Yeah. Yeah, I think it runs on the other side, Alan. Yeah, I I can address all that in my staff report. Pardon? Pardon? He said, I didn't include where the lateral was um just for the sake of not putting it online. Um but that is a known location. I I did talk to uh engineering/wetlands agent staff uh you know about the project on a very preliminary level. I'll I'll talk about I'll touch that briefly in in the staff section. Okay. Anybody else on the board have any questions before we uh see if anybody in the

Just a simple question. If you decide to put a fence up, what kind of fence are you thinking about? Is it a white fence? A pick. What kind of fence would you be putting up? So So we were thinking, and again, nothing is in stone here. It's not going to be um I don't even know the word for the the janky metal fence. We were thinking like a black aluminum uh fence that looks pretty nice. We had uh some good quotes from that. Uh and it looks nice. We don't want something that makes the neighborhood um look worse. We want to bless the neighborhood and make it look better. Well, we could tell them what kind of fence we want. Right. Um I have a I'm looking

um one of the exhibits. Is this going to be in more of the middle of the green or is it going to be up in that top right corner? It's pushed up as close to the building as we can get it. Uh, and it's to the right. So, that top right corner is is pretty accurate. It's horizontal, so it's it's 50 feet deep towards the road. Uh, and then 100 ft wide, so it runs the length almost of the building. is that the the road um to the right of it. Is that where do people enter?

They they enter to the right and so that's a that's a loop. We've got two entrances. We've got one there and then we have one on Mountain Road as well that they can enter from. Right. So the what where they're entering on still they can go around and drop people off at the front of the church and go go around to the parking lot which is to the to the left looking at it. Exactly. Uh what what is the reason it wouldn't you wouldn't want to place it more in the center to maybe keep it further away from the road? We're we're open to that. Um, what do you mean?

So, in the center of the green as opposed to in the top right hand. Oh, okay. There's no road over there. The road. There's no road really there. It's just cars probably dropping off. Well, some handicap spots up there, right? I where cars pass by, not an actual road, but Yeah. Yeah. So, so that drive it's really a driveway. And the the reason we did that was to preserve as much green space as we could. Um splitting it in half is less ideal for us. Uh and so that's the reason that we positioned it where it is. Okay. Okay. Madam Chair, I have a question as well.

Go ahead, Stephanie. Um will the entire green space be fenced fenced in? That is not the intention. No, just the playscape area. Yeah, the the playground area. Yep. Okay. Anybody else? Good questions.

Okay. Um, is there is there um neighbors or public that want to speak? Sorry, I was waiting for the commissioners. I'll I'll do something brief uh if the commission is all set. I have sorry I have one more question I did read it's is this going to be open to the public or the community at certain times I was I saw that yeah the the intention is to have it open during daylight hours okay we will not add any any lighting we would have signage saying that it's closed at night thank you.

Hey, Alex, did you want to give your report? Yeah. Um, let me share my screen. Okay. Uh, can everybody see my screen? Yes. Yes.

All right. Um, so just to go in order of a few few topics of consideration, uh, I can read my staff report, but it's extremely basic. um you know, as was discussed, it's fairly set back from the road. Um but to to basically address Allen's concern, so at one point in time, it was at least proposed um I don't know if it was installed or not to have a septic system here, and this was the reserve. and what happened when they either tied in or tied in originally uh and didn't need to abandon the septic system. The lateral does run pretty close if not through a small portion of it. MDC provided basically as verification to me that they're tied in the location of the lateral, but just an old habit from the other town that I worked at. They didn't like posting utility locations. Not not that that's feasible with every project, but I figured for this one it might be. Uh I did talk to the wetlands agent slash kind of engineering staff about whether you could put a playground like this, you know, excluding the peers for, you know, whatever structure. Uh I believe there's a shade structure in their brochure. Um in the absence of that, you could you could essentially do most most of the playground there. There will be further review, you know, regarding any subsurface features that that type of thing. Obviously, call before you dig. Um, just to address the lateral, which does to some extent go off the side to where either the legacy septic system was or, you know, just the lateral always went this way. This easement's actually kind of a combined not not that we need to get into this, but drinking and sanitary that it doesn't actually their lateral doesn't run to that easement.

um just to address that. So, not that it's the most relevant um to this particular application, but it is outside of the flood zone. So, there is some there is some FEMA flood zone on the property. This is out of it. There's a very small amount of wetlands along the property boundary and more so on the abuing property uh to the east. This is out of that as well. And again, any and all additional approvals, you know, we will sort out with the applicant. If if there is an agent approval for any upland review act regulated activity, you know, we'll we'll sort that out. And if if someone in TPZ wants to see additional screening, maybe maybe we can talk about that as well. Um, what else? So, what has happened very recently is I've been getting a lot of feedback from the neighbors. So, I did want to address someone who wasn't able to attend the meeting. Uh, they did submit an additional exhibit today uh before the cutoff. So, I'm going to introduce it to the record as well as just give some clarification on c certain technicalities that weren't um necessarily the right words for certain things, but you know, their opinions, their opinion. Uh, they wanted to submit this as an exhibit. So, I'm going to introduce um feedback

from a neighbor. So, uh, she stated that she is opposed to the variance. Um, you know, the first point of clarification is that I, in my opinion, this isn't a recreational use independent of the church. Um, it is ancillary to the church's function. Um, essentially a place for kids in attendance to to literally play um of a playground in the front yard of the property. The front yard playground is restricted by zoning in our residential zone for good reason. Uh again, and this is me just reading it into the record, uh playground is not essential to the purpose of house of worship. It is a pleasant amenity, but not mission critical. If it were critical, the owners could have purchased a different property. The front yard playground built to accommodate 80 to 100 children. Uh and again, just reading this into the record, would degrade the quality of life for the residents of this zone. The application does not mention plans to erect a fence. That would completely screen the playground and children using it. 80 to 100 children is quite a number of children. The application does not mention hours that the playground would be in use. No specific uh restriction of hours are mentioned. The application does not mention whether additional lighting may be used or what hours. Dimensions 50 by 100. um you know as reported by me as they've been speaking to me uh about their desire to submit an exhibit does not seem reasonable to accommodate 80 to 100 children who would spill out of the area lacking fencing and probably even with the fencing in place. The application includes brochure of playground equipment but does not indicate dimensions, color or size of pieces of equipment being considered for purchase and again no indication of erecting screening fence even if consider conditions of approval are imposed upon the applicant. The changes made by central playground including the activities visuals noise lighting and overflow would negatively impact the quiet enjoyment of the residential properties in zone. Please deny the appeal. Thank you for your kind attention to my comments. Um, so just

the most important was it signed? It's um, no, it was via email. Um, and where does this person live? That's important for us to know. Uh, so this is the direct to butter across the street. Um, okay. But the for me the biggest point of clarification, this is not an appeal. Uh, this is a variance. Uh, and essentially we're here to discuss basically whether there's hardship due to the shape of the parcel. Um, as stated by the applicant. uh that what we're here to discuss is whether the the playground can go in the front yard.

So um you know with respect to the fence uh I believe we have discussed that and we can discuss that in further detail. Uh if the board feels that there's a specific type of fencing that um you know would make this more appealing you know they that's something that we can discuss. Uh I think as far as hours we have discussed that there's there's no utilities or lighting running to it. So uh if the board is comfortable with daylight uh I believe that that has been addressed as well. Um you know clarification on the occupants uh I don't necessarily know that if the neighbor feels the playground is too small is any different than having no playground. Um so I don't see that necessarily as a detriment. uh you know just more so some sort of balancing of you know what the church feels is appropriate for their their attendees. Uh the application includes a brochure but does not include pieces of equipment. I just think that's further down the line than this variance is. Essentially what we're here to discuss is um whether it can go in the front uh due to the size of the parcel. um you know that's that's the only conflict that's direct with the zoning regulations. Um but you know in in ways of mitigating that conflict and acknowledging the hardship if you know if the board feels there is one you know the fencing any landscape screening or hours restrictions you know are definitely reasonable if the board feels that they should be included. Um but yeah, I do feel like this letter addresses any of the negative sentiment. Al received uh equal amount of positive sentiment. Uh you know, it's just like any other application. Um but anyone who wants to submit an exhibit can submit an exhibit.

Um I think the other point of conversation was whether there are basketball courts or really courts of any kind. That was another thing that was brought up by residents prior to the hearing. So, I'll let the applicant describe whether there like a basketball court, tennis court, pickle ball court is part of this. That was a that was a question that was brought up, not necessarily by this exhibit, but by others who had called um just curious. Um so, with that, I'll leave it to the applicant to

I guess describe uh describe the playground a little bit as well as whether there's a basketball court. love all those sports. None of them are a part of this variance. Um, and so this is purely a playscape area for the kids as well as probably some picnic tables for parents to be able to sit and not have to to stand the entire time that they're having fellowship and watching the kids. And I I just want to mention, I know she went on about it being a residential neighborhood, but um I lived on Maple Avenue and two two houses down from me was one of the town's public playgrounds. So, I mean, it's it's it was never a problem having a playground in the in the neighborhood. Okay. Um, is that Do you want to say anything else right now, Josh? Joshua?

Nope. No. Okay. I'm I think you had said there's somebody in the waiting room, right? Was Alex done? Yeah. More than happy. Now, we can ask him questions if we have them afterwards. Okay. Yeah. There's there's at least one neighbor who said that she is in the in the waiting room and wants to be engaged. Okay. Well, Miss McCarthy, would you like to speak? Uh, just please state your name and address for the record. I think you have to promote her or turn on this microphone.

Jackie McCarthy. Okay. I just did. Yeah, you have to turn on your microphone. Jackie, you need to put your microphone on. Yeah. Okay. Are you talking? No. Jackie, are you Would you like Yeah. Can you please state your name and address for the record and then ask your question or make your comment?

Excellent. Thank you so much. Uh my name is Jquelyn McCarthy. I live directly across the street uh from where the play playground will be. Uh directly across literally from 180 um Life Church, 180 Mountain Road, which I love Joshua by the way. Uh Josh and I have partnered in the past regarding snowplowing that has gone on. Uh so he's a terrific neighbor. Uh the my address is 165 Still Road St I LL West Hartford, Connecticut directly across my living room window looks out. So I do have concerns. Um, I guess the first is noise. We have a lot of people in this neighborhood who work from home. If this is open during the day and especially in the summertime when it becomes, hey, here's a great playground. parents are going to come and kids are going to be, you know, if it's 80 to 100 kids or even 60 kids, how are we as residents supposed to be working from home with noise? Um,

do I respond to that? Playgrounds are one minute, Josh. Okay. Was that so you want him to respond to that or do you have more you would like to say? I have many questions but Joshua, you know, if you can kind of give insight like Okay. All right. Josh, you want to address that first?

No, I think it's a valid question. One of our goals with this is to be a blessing to the community and so we obviously don't want to be disruptive. Um there are things that we can do to help mitigate. Um so we we don't plan to eventually we would like to have have bushes in front which is going to help um cut up the uh the sound noise a little bit. We don't expect on a given random day to have that many kids. That's largely going to be that's a Sunday um experience for us which most people aren't working at that time. Uh but we do want to be mindful of that. We know that people are working. We will um Jacqueline, we will absolutely make sure that it's not disruptive. We'll stay in touch on that. The plan would be if there were issues, we could set buffers in between to help mitigate sound noise.

That would be perfect because I work in technology. So all the changes that my teams do are on Friday evenings through Sunday evenings. A lot of conference calls, a lot of discussions, lot of meetings as we implement technology. um we can't do it during the week. Uh so yeah, that would definitely uh and I'm sure we can partner. Um another question is so we're looking at a variance, not a zoning of residential to um commercial. No,

yeah, that was my I understand. So it's variance. So we're are we approving a variance tonight and then whatever gets picked can be implemented like the fencing and the the variance itself will be will be uh voted on tonight but we don't know what's planned. So how can well the so varian that's not for us board of appeals

we deal with variances the town would work with um the applicant on um on on the rest of it. We're just giving him permission to do uh what he would like to do or not give him permission, whichever way we go on that. But don't we need more detail before you can even like approve a var? I I've worked with wetlands in West Harford because I'm in wetlands. So So you're just going to grant the variance

and then from there the plans are approved. I'm just trying to understand the process because I very well understand wetlands and um developers coming into the neighborhood. Um so yeah, variance gets approved tonight and then from there Josh and 180 life church works directly with the town and yeah,

so the neighbors have no input after tonight. This is the only public hearing regarding this application. However, am I on mute? Okay. No. Um the biggest point of clarification is just this is only because the playground is in the front yard. Uh essentially due to

so the variation of the zoning rigs is just whether you can have a uh an accessory structure in front of the building. So technically the only conversation that we're having right now is the hardship and the mitigating factors such as fences, um visual screening with the buffers, uh including uh the bushes, uh hours restrictions, essentially whether that is enough to grant the variance to have it in the front. um just due to the scope of work, you know, it being a playground, uh it is unlikely that there would be another public hearing. However, the applicant will work with town staff to make sure things like the what we had talked about briefly before such as the sewer lateral um you know, we do have zoning regulations about screening things like that. you know that can also be part of the discussion but the only thing that needs a variation of basically what the regs are is whether it can go in the front. So that's what is at the level of of a public hearing. We have regulations saying accessory structures don't go in front of the the principal building and this this would be if approved. This is the only aspect of a playground just from a scope of work standpoint that would require a public hearing unless the wetlands agent feels like there is substantial impact um or feels as though there's regulated activity I should say and you know I'm speaking to people with a a fair amount of familiarity some of which on the commission and and obviously yourself if there's regulated activity you know that that would be a topic of conversation with inland wetlands water courses is that's not what we do here. I have spoke to the wetlands agent, you know, that would be a commission that if the wetlands agent felt there's regulated

activity there to be discussed, it would be um and there are zoning rigs about screening, you know, that that can be a conversation with staff, but not with neighbors. Yes, this is the only public hearing to my knowledge, unless the wetlands agent feels differently than he did in our preliminary conversation or this all of a sudden elevates to a special permit, which I would imagine is unlikely for a playground. Alex, I the other thing is I I think the reason they're picking this place, this this part of the property is because they want to stay away from the wetlands, which are There's

which are to the side and and and back of of the building. So this is the only time neighbors can speak out. Yes, it is. Yeah. For a playground,

I I need to understand the noise, the volume. What are we going to do if I mean there are people that that Josh, you probably don't know this, but you know, that's where uh a lot of stuff goes on at night. uh you know so all of a sudden it becomes like a playground for Bloomfield, West Hartford, Hartford. Uh kids drop their uh parents drop their kids off in the summertime. What restrictions are going to be there? You guys don't deal with that. You're just going to say no time.

That just doesn't happen though. I mean, I've I've already playgrounds all around our town. Okay. And that just doesn't happen. Clearly, I have no input. Josh, I got to say based on there are no structures. There's very little information now. None of us can speak up again, Josh, as neighbors. But you you have your chance right now to say what you want to say. Yeah. I I don't approve this. Okay. because I am directly across the street. Alex, I spoke with you earlier today. Um, you know,

the question is, are you asking for stronger restrictions or do you just flat out just don't like the concept of I don't have enough information to make a decision as to whether or not I would want this. Thank you very much for your time. Clearly, you guys are very What was in place? Why don't you give an idea of what you're looking for? This was to go through.

I would like to know what kind of fencing, what kind of barrier so I can do my business work from home over the weekends because I work in technology for large companies. Um I I personally love the idea. I know they will do aesthetically what kind of fencing uh what kind of barriers, what kind of arborites can you put up to block it, to block the noise and you know because you prove it and then it goes in and then all of a sudden our neighborhood changes.

Well, he say that they were talking about down the line putting up some um bushes to to help out with sound travel. Um, what what other than that would you be looking for? I'd like to know what uh materials they're using. What what equipment have they selected? How large is it? I see you laughing at me, Jackie. No, I'm not I'm not laughing. I have a lot of questions. So, just I I'm not laughing. I understand. I understand. I'm looking at You guys do not care about the questions. No, we do. We absolutely they might be down don't have answers for what I'm asking.

We we don't have answers. They just they might be downstream of what this commission does. So this but I can't speak up once it's done. So I'm done. Thank you. Good night. Um Josh, are you are you thinking of a playcape like the one you uh that we received? So something along those lines like we're not tied to that specific separate swings. Correct. Yes. Okay. So and likely some sort of shaded structure as well. Yeah. Jackie, can I add? Yes. Just Yes.

Okay. So my envision of this is that um with the variance I'm going to request a fence no higher than 4 feet uh of vinyl material which can be any color you want and with some kind of plantings around the around the fence uh for um to shield it from I I don't think we should go there And I'll I'll tell you why. We can do that. Why not?

I'll tell you why. Because um we just pulled out all our shrubbery at our synagogue because it's a place for people to hide and it's a security issue. So I I don't want to tell him that he needs to do these plantings because religious institutions sometimes are targeted and um you have a playground there. That's why I think we absolutely have to be fenced in. But um we had a lot of shrubbery around ours and we were told by by the security companies to get rid of them.

Good point, Jackie. Because pe because you know Yeah, I understand. A shooter will hide behind a shrub. But just a fence, a vinyl fence would be fine. Yeah. I mean, that's that's what we ended up putting in. Okay. So, no higher than four feet. I mean, for sightines, if he if he in the future wants to put some shrubs in and and I know there are people that are dealing in Connecticut with with security for religious institutions and they think it's a good idea that that I I would leave that up to him. I would not make it a definite that they have to.

Okay. Yeah, you're right. Cameras are a beautiful thing. I have cameras on my home. Okay. So, you keep an eye on the place. So, so, you know, there's an additional problem that you're you're not looking at is that when the congregation gets out of the church, they're going to be standing around in front talking. There's nothing anybody can do about that. So, kids playing in the playground, you know,

you're over you're overreaching. I you know I could tell you from personal experience, Jackie, that I lived um across the street from a church. I lived on the corner of Maple and Malard. I don't know if you know Bloomfield and there's a church directly across the street and yes, it was noisy on Sunday mornings. And that was without a playground with a playground all the way in the back, but it was noisy. There were cars turning around in my driveway. There were um I am cutting out and I cannot hear you at this point trying to see what's going on.

There is a lot of increased traffic and that's beautiful. I mean it is I'm I'm excited. Can you guys hear me? Yes, we can. The younger generation. So yes, but you know traffic has increased. So now during the summertime when I'm still working, but I guess you guys don't deal with that. That's uh it doesn't matter. But the other thing that it doesn't matter what I'm trying to say, Jackie, not regulated. Okay,

Jackie, the thing I'm trying to say is, as Allan said, it's going to be noisier because people are going to come out of the church and they don't get in their cars immediately and drive off. They talk, they chat. It it it gets a little noisy for a little bit. It hasn't been so far. Well, and so we're talking about It's winter and it's cold. Well, no. We've had some really gorgeous days on Sundays. Um, it's going to change the dynamic of the neighborhood. Well, it's always

and I know Joshua, I can partner with him, but to say we're not going to put up our bravites to block barriers, I I just I understand that's not your job. you're going to approve this variance tonight and the rest of the neighborhood is just going to have to put up with whatever gets structured, installed. Um, I'm I'm I'm hearing your messaging. Thank you, Jackie. I will point out that what Jackie said about the shrubs is my what she said I believe is doesn't want the town to be liable for insisting that they put up shrubs and then there's a problem down the road. They can do whatever their experts say they want as far as shrubs go, but we're not taking responsibility for insisting on it. Correct, Jackie?

That that's the way I feel about it. Yes. Yeah. All right, let's move on. Okay. Um, are you all done, Jackie? Yeah, I think I'm going to have to sell my house if I can't work from home. Um, okay. Anybody else on the board have any there? There isn't anybody else in the public in the in the waiting room, is there, Rebecca? I can't really see that. No. Uh, Jackie was the only one.

Okay. Thank you. Okay. Anybody on the board have any last questions or comments that they'd like to make before we close um the public hearing? So, so far we have only heard from two neighbors. Jackie, that's speaking now and the letter. Correct. Okay. Do we know how many neighbors? How many neighbors are around? Lots. Lots of neighbor. Pardon me. Lots. There's a lot of neighbors. Yeah, there were a lot of letters and all the neighbors received information that this is going to happen tonight. Am I correct? Yeah,

it's in the newspaper. It was in the newspaper twice. And there's a sign that they have to put up which I'm assuming you had it up, right, Josh? We've had it up and we sent out about 35 letters to connecting neighbors. Okay. So, there's there's neighbors on Mountain and there's neighbors on on Still. Yeah. There's a a house on on the mountain that's right there, right behind, you know, whichever way you look at it.

Yeah. It's worth mentioning that I've had some amount of positive feedback from people calling in. just the amount of them, you know, when it's when you feel like you're fine with the playground being near your house, uh the amount of effort to write a letter to the town, uh or attend the meeting might not necessarily be there, but uh I have received plenty of phone calls um all approximate, maybe about three just expressing general support. Um but you know I guess not not enough enthusiasm to come in after 7:30. Yeah.

So are you saying that we have more you got more positive than negative? Is that correct? No, it's hard to say because of the the general sentiment. I don't want to I don't want to put anyone's opinions over anyone else's. It's just worth mentioning that I did receive a fair amount of positive feedback. And just one more point of clarification. Uh I had said that the letter was from the abuter across the street. It's the abutter at 901 Mountain Road. Just a point of clarification. Thank you. Because I was going to ask you the address. So it's 901 Mountain. Yeah, according to GIS,

which is is it shown here on is it on the same side of the street as No, it's northwest. So, it's basically corner to corner with the entrance. Okay. Entrance up at the top there. Yeah, it would be it'd be northwest of the property. Northwest. Okay. The one that has a playground in the back potentially. I don't have the area layer on. Okay. Okay. Anybody else on the board have any any questions or comments?

One more question. What time do we have what time is service? What time is actual service there, please? We have services at at 9:00 and at 11 on Sundays. And what other do you have services at all during the week? Uh not not a typical contemporary service. We've got like young adults uh ministry and and student ministry throughout the week. Uh but none that would really be impacted by the playground and none are actually that large largely attended.

I also wanted to I mean you're you're breaking up. You hear me? That's better. Shelby, sorry. I just wanted to you know state that we have noise ordinances. have that you and noise or it's disturbing. We do have noise ordinances in town. I'm not encouraging to call, you know, law enforcement at every turn, but you're breaking up. Show me. You are breaking up. I I I get the gist of what you're saying.

Can you hear me better? little bit. Yeah. Try again. So, yeah, I was just I know you heard I think most of it or like you said, but I was just talking about the noise or whenever she gets to noise ordinance, she goes out on us. You notice that she Why does Sorry. Can you hear me now? Yeah. Okay. Don't start at the beginning though. I was that can be enforced if

so I I think what Shelby is trying to say is that we do have a noise ordinance in town and it can be enforced if it need if if there's a problem. Is that what you're trying to say? And just Okay. All right. Um anybody else? Um Josh the owner um you do have a great relationship with the with Jackie am I correct? Yeah we do. Yeah. Do do you know that she is on the fence? Really not don't want to support this. Did do you have a discussion with it?

No. So she hadn't reached out to me until this meeting. I wouldn't say that it's a frequent conversating that we have. It's just every every now and again. We try to help wherever we can. Yeah. So she So that just came up. She reached out to you today prior to this meeting. No, during the meeting she was the meeting she was trying to get her mic to work. So you you didn't have a discussion before this? No. No.

Okay. Well, so in addition to speaking to your um your your internal commission, uh you mentioned them as elders, you know, are you open to just having a conversation with Jackie, assuming she's also, you know, willing to have a conversation with you for all the ambiguities that aren't part of this. Not that it would be condition of approval, but you know, just in a general sentiment, you know, as their neighbor, would you be willing to just sit down with them and see what see what they think beyond the scope of this variance? Uh whe whether you approve this or not, there's there's no scenario where I don't reach back out to Jackie and follow up and make sure that she's cared for in this.

Thank you. Um Okay, I'm I'm all set. Are the rest of the commissioners all set? I'm good. Seth, you've been very quiet. You Wait a minute. Seth, he has to recuse himself. Yeah, Seth is recused. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't hear that. Up for a lawsuit. Yeah, I I I sent out a a email last week to everybody about that. Oh, I I don't think I saw that. So that Okay. So that means that Stephanie will be voting tonight.

Be voting tonight. Okay. All right. Thank you, Seth. I'm sorry. Um All right. Well, um you want to close the public hearing. I have a motion to close the public hearing. So move. Second. Seconded by who seconded it? Stephanie. Okay. Thank you, Stephanie. Okay. All in favor of closing the public hearing. I I

I Okay. All right. For that's the public hearing. Okay. Does somebody want to make a motion um to grant the application? Um I mean I think the big the big the big thing is that there really is no other place to put this on this property um because of wetlands. Excuse me. Point of water. You might want to ask him if there's any opposing. You only asked said I. No, we said I to close the uh Everybody said I to close it. Any any oppositions or unanimous? Yes. Or or

was it unanimous? What was unanimous? We voted to hear we closed the hearing and everybody voted to close it. Okay. The public hearing. Yes. But we we didn't vote to approve or disapprove.

No, but I'm just saying whoever would like to make the motion needs to make sure that they state that um that because of the wetlands and the shape of the property, this is um I guess the only place they really could put this And I would put and I would put the fence in there as well. Whoever want So who want who who would like to make a motion I guess is the question.

Okay. So, I I would like to make a motion um all of what Jackie has stated and all of the options that we must look at um as far as fencing and in lie of um there be uh a report put forth to inland wetlands and other commissions that have to um look at and abide by um the legal the legal ease of this variance. Um, I would like to bring forth a motion that we approve um the variance.

Okay. With with the reasons that I stated. With the reasons that you stated. Okay. Do I have a second? I have a second. Including the fence. Including the fence. Yes. A nice fence. Uh, beautiful fence. Okay. All in favor of the motion? I I. Anybody opposed? Any abstensions? I Okay. Well, you're you're not voting. We took you out of the mix totally. So, we have five yeses. It's unanimous. Is that what I'm hearing? Yes. Yes. And I'm abstaining.

Thank you. Well, you you can't You're not voting. You're not. Okay. Okay. I got you. I got you. You're not voting. Stephanie took your place. Yeah. Okay. All right. So, um, thank you, Josh, uh, for coming in and work with the town. Yeah. Thank you so much. Like, I know this takes time and effort and energy for you guys. Thank you for taking the time to to hear us out and to help us with this next step. You're welcome. You're more than welcome.

You're more than welcome. Yep. And um I don't have any old business, right? There's nothing new, Alex, that we've heard from Do I Do I disappear at this point? Yeah. You're all set unless you want to hear. All right. Thanks y'all. Appreciate you. Okay. Take care. Um no just just everybody check your email about the training. Um to some extent that is available. Uh I have heard that um maybe I don't have anything closer ever.

Well I don't understand why they have slots for the virtual. Um you know this is a this is something that's heavily encouraged by the state neither here nor there. But if you can sign up please sign up. um you know in the event that you haven't had training in the past four years. Um so definitely anyone new but just just worth mentioning. I sent you guys a link um and we'll be in touch if you were able to get in. Is it we can't get in virtual town can reimburse you? Um we can't get in virtual. Is that what you said, Seth?

Yep. Yep. I tried and I couldn't. They said it's full. And my question was, are we going to get reimbursed for mileage if we have to drive there? I I I brought it up internally. Um, we'll we'll be able to figure it out. Uh,

I don't It's just bizarre to me. Yeah, they there's a number of slots because I remember I had attended something like that uh some time ago just for my own training purposes and they had brought up uh that they limit they limit the number of seats virtually which is frustrating. Um but if you can't attend in person please do. Is anybody here thinking of attending in person? Well, I I was think I had thought giving it thought and I asked the question about if we're going to be reimbursed for mileage given it where it is and I'm still waiting for an answer on that.

Well, the answer is yes. I I spoken internally. It would be good if if more if a few people want to go, it would make sense to carpool. Where is I had I had planned on going. Had them. Oh yeah, I thought Oh yeah, I saw that. I saw actually I had that under new business. I was going to bring it up. So thank you for bringing it up, Alex. Um

yeah, I'll I'll continue to have an eye out for more training, but that's the that's the perfect one, you know, that's the commissioners of land use boards training, you know, 101. Well, Alex, are there other boards that are being invited to this in of our Yeah, so it it covers wetlands as well. It covers Z. It covers TPZ and in most towns they call it PZC. Same thing. Um I'm I'm cons I was just thinking if people wanted to go together, it's not just us, it's other it's

Oh, yeah. No, it's a very popular um amongst several basically any related land use commission. Uh I I do think it's unusual that you know it to some extent being required that they don't have they have a fixed amount of virtual seats but we'll just we'll just work with what we can. Um and just please go if you can. Everybody has everybody else's email. If people are thinking of going, maybe um you can shoot the rest of us an email and see, you know, what others are doing.

Hopefully not. Um so they do it around election time as well, but it was just too recent. Um I wasn't able to get any any spots. And to be honest, my concern now is that it's been it's been enough time since it was open. I I encourage everyone to go. I don't know that there's any seats left for in person either because that definitely there's a fixed amount. Um so worth looking into. And if you do get in, let me know. Um but if not, we're just going to, you know, I'll have my eye out and let you guys know whenever things come up. This is the best training in terms of what they offer though. So, it is unfortunate. I know there's a site plan reading one um after that and while it would still count um just for like a credit hours type of situation um in a perfect world they would do this again soon. So, I'll I'll keep an eye out and we'll uh keep you in the loop. But also, please try and if you can't get in, you can't get in. Um, that might be the case as of right now, even in person.

That's crazy. Anybody have any anything any other business? No. No. Um, okay. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? So, move. Thank you. And second by Allan. Yeah. All in favor? I thank you everybody. Bye.