City Council - Regular Meeting

Robertson going first. That was agenda I had on the phone. No, that's just the other business. So So that last That's going to be last after. That's fine. That's what I wanted to know. Okay. Well, let's get this ball rolling, shall we? My name is John Darrow and I am the chairman of the board for the city of Bingington's Commission on Architecture, Urban Design, and Historic Preservation. I am calling the April 28th, 2026 meeting to order, and I will start with a roll call to my left. Young lady, green light on Jennifer Church, First Assistant Corporation Council. Glad you're here, sir.

Daniel Ne, commissioner. Thank you. Brian Hos, commissioner. Thank you. Jeffrey Smith, commissioner. Thank you, sir. Julia, Erling, planning director. Exicio. Always a pleasure. Tessa Michael, historic preservation neighborhood planner. Honored. Uh, Solomon Patel, planner. Here we are. Okay. Um, are we capable of doing minutes from the last meeting or no? Uh, you should be able to do it from last month, but you won't be able to do it for January yet because Jonathan's not present. So, have you read the minutes from last month that we did and any questions, concerns, comments? Entertain a motion for approval.

I'll make a motion to approve the the minutes from March 24th meeting. I will second your motion. All in favor? I I minutes pass and then we're tableabling the January minutes until we have the appropriate people. Yeah, we we will need Jonathan here and then for you to read the minute minutes and then you can vote on it. Okay. Do we need to make a motion to table that or? Uh no, you can you can

So then I believe without any further hesitation, uh 13 Jackson Street. Do I have a representative? Sir, come on down. Have a seat. Make sure the little green light is on and that microphone. Please tell us who you are and your project working for you. Yes.

My name is James Torto. Uh, we're looking to do the demolition on 13 Jackson Street. Welcome, Mr. Jordano. Always a pleasure. Do you have the file? Yes.

JDT Realy Company LLC would like to demolish a two family house at 13 Jackson Street to expand their existing business. Um, I did find that this house was built circa 1923 architect unknown. Um, as far as the location, it's in Bingmpington Southside East neighborhood twotory 2 unit positioned on the north side of Jackson Street. 2 meters are visible on the east facade. It has a wood frame, concrete foundation, asphalt shingle roof, and aluminum siding. There's a two-story porch on the south facade which is a character-defining feature. The building has elements of folk Victorian uh/vernacular Victorian. It's very symmetrical, steeply pitched front gable roof, one over one windows are found and 6 over6 on the north facade. The condition is fair. Um, as far as significance, the most significant owner of the house that I found was Jacob Couture, who co-owned Bingmpington Pants Manufacturing Company's plant.

Okay. In the interest of full disclosure, um, Mr. Torto and I have been friends for 30 years maybe plus, and he was a tenant of mine for about a year. We have done no business. We haven't interacted. We haven't even gone out so much as for a cup of coffee. You owe me one, by the way. Um, if that presents a problem, I just need everyone to know. There's very few people in town. I probably don't know, but we all Anybody We're good. Okay, then we're good. I just I have to say that because I'm sitting up here. I I didn't recognize you. We both didn't have gray hair back then.

I preferred silver, James. Silver. No, I didn't recognize you either, man. Sorry to see you limping. I hope you're you're doing okay. Good. Okay. Um questions, concerns, comments?

Then I'm going to make a motion to declare a call lead agency. Do I have a second? I'll second. Thank you. All in favor? I. Thank you. And I'm going to make a motion to declare this an unlisted action. Second. Thank you. All in favor. All right. questions, comments, concerns, or we're going to proceed then. Mr. Ne, are you the reader? I typically do the second part, but well then, Mr. Hos, are you the reader? I don't want to overburden Mr. Smith. He's new to our cause and I don't want to get him, you know,

not a so per the city of Bingmpington historic design guidelines uh provide the following recommendations that address demolitions. Do not demolish historic structures that have historic or architectural significance within the city of Bingmpington. Do not demolish a building that contributes to the historic setting and character of a district. Do not demolish a building that contains historic building materials or evidence of historic craftsmanship that would be difficult or impossible to replicate or reproduce. Do not demolish a building that is a rare example of its type, style, period of construction or historic associations. A building should not be demolished without a definitive plan for the reuse of the property. and the reuse of the property should never be a parking lot, which would generally have a negative impact on the overall character of a street. Do not demolish a building when reasonable efforts can be made to maintain its structural integrity. If a historic building is active and is earning a reasonable economic return, it is not appropriate to demolish a building, even if the return is not deemed to be the highest and best use. So, before we agree to that, what is your plan with this property? Right now, we probably would just plant grass in that area. Eventually, we would like to rent the property out to smaller contractors that are looking for staging areas.

Okay. Now, we right now have four or five contractors in there that are renting and it's a uh in a sing double house that's in a light industrial zone. Mhm. And it's um we purchased a vacant land way before we purchased this house and it's just kind of an obstacle in the middle of everything. It gets flooded every time the river floods or even high water.

I think it's been through four floods major. And uh it's just I think beyond repair. So we'd like to just tear it down and improve the property. Okay. So pretty much just a gravel lot. Well, grass for now, but someday maybe gravel for equipment storage. Okay. I mean typically for light industrial in this context. Okay. So, we're done there. I guess with that, I make a motion to declare it um not historically significant.

Okay. I'll second that. All in favor? I I now you're up, sir. Make it count.

You want there? Um it's like an eye test. Uh, will the proposed action create a material conflict with an adopted land use plan or zoning regulation? No. Will the proposed action result in a change to the use or intensity of the use of land? I'd say no. Will the proposed action impair the character or quality of the existing community? I'd say no. Will the proposed action have an impact on the environmental characteristics that caused the establishment of a critical environmental area? No, it's autopop populated it looks. Um, will the proposed action result in an adverse change in the existing level of traffic or affect existing infrastructure for mass transit, biking, or walking? No. Will the proposed action cause an increase in the use of energy and it fails to incorporate reasonably available energy conservation or renewable energy opportunities? I would say no. And anyone can interrupt at this point on on the commission to, you know, make a point if they'd like to. I just I'm going to read them off. Um,

no. Will the proposed action impair the character or quality of important historic, archaeological, architectural, or aesthetic resources? I'd say no. Will the proposed action result in an adverse change to natural resources? For example, wetlands, water bodies, groundwater, air quality, flora, and fauna? I'd say no. Will the proposed action result in an increase in the potential for erosion, flooding, or drainage problems? No. Will the proposed action create a hazard to the environmental resources or human health? No. So, um I guess based off of that, I would have um make a motion for a negative declaration.

I would second your motion. Commissioner, all in favor? I was going to chime in on something that you had said before and I didn't get a chance. You were reading so well. Go ahead. Could I could we redo this or how do I quoted you speak? So is this use which is going to be an empty lot permitted in the zoning regulations

well a new housing would not be permitted. Um so what whatever is existing is grandfathered in. Uh if they were to demolish and just keep it as a green space that that's fine. um any new usage that they propose in the future uh may require additional review. So, it just depends on what they plan to do. If they plan to do anything permanent um that that may require additional approval. So, as an empty lot, they were going to be required to mow it, pick up the plastic bags and all the garbage and stuff that collects it on these empty lots. Yes, they're supposed to maintain it with

for the low-level industrial stuff. We have been doing similar things past few years in your absence. Right. Okay. We have a motion. We have a second. We have a vote, sir. I have a question. Yes, please. Are there any tenants currently living in the building? No. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All in favor again passes. Knock your building down. James. Okay. Let's see who is next here. 23 Mitchell Avenue. Come on down.

Okay. Have to redo this. Afternoon, ladies. Afternoon. Hello. Hello. Please state your name for the record and welcome. Glad you're here. Thank you. Sarah Campbell, attorney with him and Katel representing both the applicant and the contract vendee. And I'm Karen Mackoy, director of construction and safety for United Health Services.

Welcome ladies. Do you want to say anything or I'll have read your your application. Let him do he gets paid, you know. Okay. It's up to you. Oh, no. Her pass the Oh my god. Okay.

Uh the applicant would like to de demolish um the property in connection with a planned sale to UHS hospital. The hospital will use the area to improve patient and staff safety for site circulation in connection with the adjacent summit building. Um, what I found for the property, uh, year of construction is circa 1924. It is located in the southside neighborhood. It's a two-story one unit residential dwelling positioned on the east side of Mitchell Avenue. One meter is visible on the north facade. Um, it has a wood frame, concrete foundation, asphalt shingle roof, and aluminum or vinyl clabbered siding. The building has a front porch on the west facade, a back porch on the east facade, and an addition on the east facade. The building most closely aligns with American craftsman or craftsman influence vernacular architecture. Um, some features are reminiscent of American forquare or colonial revival era vernacular homes from the early 1900s to 1930s, which aligns with the year of construction. Uh the main roof is a steep side gabled roof, a front porch with a gabled roof and thick square porch columns. Um there are deep overhanging eaves, symmetrical windows, and simple trim. Most windows are one over one or three over one. Um the condition is fair. Um and I do want to note there is an accessory building, a one-story garage that is east of the building on the lot. The most significant person I found associated with the building is Arthur J. Whan, who is the deputy city assessor for 12 years and a local real estate agent. Um, and that was from 19 he was there 1942 to 1954 in the building.

We don't have any interior pictures. Do you have anything at all? No, we don't have any. It's nothing special from what I'm told. The realtor went in and took a look. Um, and it's not occupied at present. It is occupied but not all the time. Apparently the owner is relocating and is not around. Okay.

Or she would be here today. Um just some more things to add. Um so this request came as a result of some difficulty that UHS is having in connection with the neighboring summit building. And for those of you that don't know what happens in the summit building, um there's a retail pharmacy, a primary care office, outpatient mental health clinic, behavioral health and addiction services, methodone maintenance, the adult community free clinic is located there, um and occupational health. Um so it is a it is a a busy location. Um and the difficulty is the traffic flow um with the adjacent uh driveways. They exist on both sides of the summit building, but due to the number of people coming every day, and Karen just mentioned to me that there's over 300 uh methodone patients, just that one service per day. Um and very many of them arrive in uh cabs or Ubers. Um so there's a real problem with drop off and pickup. Um as you know based on your familiarity with the area, the hospital's right across the street. So it's very very difficult for people to be stopping and waiting. Um so we're the the plan is to utilize this parcel for traffic flow, not parking. We don't plan to put parking up there. Um, but just to improve the ability for people to drop off and pick up, also for people to walk in that immediately adjacent driveway. It's pretty dangerous right now if you had to walk um down it. Um,

and and so that's the plan. The property, just so you know, is located in the C3 medical district. So the legislative body has already made a determination that um you know it's an appropriate area for medical services. Um and again specifically the type of services off offered in this building it is critical that there be an actual hospital close by um just in case it's needed. So that's really the the rationale. So, if I'm seeing the the diagram correct, it is still going to be maintained as a means of egress only, right? And you'll be adding some is that parking to the north side of the

right there. There would just be drop off locations. Drop off. Okay. And the entrance on that side is there. Is there an entrance on that side? On the north building on the ground floor. I know it's a oneway. So, there is a north side entrance. There is which is the which is primarily used by our our methodone clinic. Okay. Okay. And then there'd be a burm created the other half of the existing property if if you get to go ahead to trees, greenery. Yeah. Something between that and the neighbor. Yes. That actually might be nice for the other properties.

Yeah. Yeah. So Sarah, you represent the property owner, not the hospital, right? Both. Both. Okay. They have a common interest here. Yeah. They want it gone and they want it. Well, yeah. I mean, the property owner has an opportunity to sell it obviously. um and she's moving out of the area and the hospital, you know, wants to take advantage of that opportunity to improve the situation. There's not a whole lot of other ways to improve. I'm going to ask a silly question. Yeah.

Because I was reading something about uh with the uh diminishment of of Medicaid. They had mentioned that the general hospital facilities were going to be potentially facing some pretty severe u people cutting and uh potential closing. I just read this last week. If we're going to go ahead to help improve it, what what's the reality going on here? Are are they I'm not aware of anything. I'm I'm not aware of anything today either. Um you know, I our commitment is strong for the community in this population, you know, those that are truly seeking help. Yeah. For um healthier, better.

Just curious because it was in the news and Yep. I saw that in the paper, too. It was kind of surprising because I think UHS has had one of its best years ever. We have Yeah. I mean, it's I like the institution. I I go there with some frequency. Not to create a conflict of interest. I'm sorry. Um Corp Council. Hi. as it's a viable house with housing and we don't have interior pictures. Does the city have a position on it at this time?

I can tell you that I did a search of this property under our um Union City database and I didn't see any code violations. Um at this time I would defer to the board as the board is in the position to make the decision. I will note that um pursuant to the city of Bingmpington historic design guidelines, it does note that a building should not be demolished without definitive plans for the reuse of the property. Reuse of the property should not must or shall, it says should never be a parking lot, which would generally have a negative impact on the overall character of the street.

So, does a means of egress constitute parking? I don't I would argue it does not. That's what I thought. And I think it could be argued that it improves the neighborhood, the drop off sites, but that's still on the pre-existing property. It's not on the potential house to be torn down. But I just want to make sure I couldn't hear you. I'm sorry. The new drive is not connected to the parking lot. It It is connected to the parking lot in the rear. Yes. Okay. But we have no plans to put parking on the lot upon which this house sits. It's a narrow lot. You really wouldn't gain much parking

and like sight lines and everything. Has that been evaluated by the engineers? Yes. Okay. I'm going to say yes.

It should also be noted that that drive adjacent to the building and that parking lot that's on plan East shown here is at two different elevations. So we can't we wouldn't have people leaving that parking lot to take a shortcut to hit that drive. You have to come up and go down the drive that's adjacent the building to come around to use that exit or you can exit on South Washington Street. There are couple three exits onto South Washington from that parking lot shown. The real issue is the stop and drop and safety

when there are 300 people showing up, you know, throughout the day. And that's only one of the uses. That doesn't incorporate all the other uses that the building is normally having.

It's particularly difficult, I think, on the weekends. Well, very early in the morning, you know, as people are are coming to the clinic before they go to work, it's often four or five taxis that are aligning that north entrance because that's the entrance in and out to the methodone clinic. And then on Saturdays, um, Saturday mornings as well, where they only, uh, dispense until one:00, it's off it's also very busy, very congested on that north drive. There's been a a pet that's been hit and near misses with people.

There's two different options on the drawing you submitted and that's just for the barricades to get you around the corner of the building, right? The south Yeah. I mean, this northeast corner.

It It should be noted that this is conceptual. I mean, we haven't really run through the volumes and the traffic patterns. Yes. The two options that are on this plan are do we have it as as jersey barriers to to make sure that we're guiding traffic away from the building or do we use ballards and you know we haven't taken that concept far enough to make that determination you know we'll weigh it against maintenance from a snow plowing from a if there's jersey bears are people going to congregate you know there there's all of these variables that we haven't weighed yet. Does the other parking lot currently have access to that means of egress?

The parking lot on the east side, if you if you see if you go to the southerntherly end of the parking lot, you can get on to that drive and use that means of egress of that easterly parking lot. There are also three access points to South Washington Street. So there's plenty means of egress uh existing from from the parking lots at at the summit building. Thank you. My pleasure. What's what are your thoughts that it will separate the drop off aisle versus the exit aisle? There's nothing called out.

Haven't haven't gone that far, Jeff, to be perfectly honest with you. Um that's that's some of the assessment as to as to working with Keystone as to those options to see which is going to be the safest right for those people that are staging and waiting for traffic uh for caps and they'll talk about storm water and the landscaping as well between the buffering property. I mean well as you all know better than I we'll certainly have to go for site plan and permits when we get that far. So that will all be addressed with the design development.

There was a few staff comments from planning department on here too. So they probably will be answered in in the next step that you go at. Okay. And I think that the challenge I have and I guess I didn't speak up on the last one is that there's two units of living space that are now going to be removed from the city of Bingmpington. It's not like we can pick up and move the building, but as we are fighting on the other side to bring more housing here. We lost two on the first application. We're talking about two here. We're going

young lady with first board action council building economic housing, if you will, though it's overpriced and we're going to lose housing. That's why I asked the city's position on it. I wasn't clear. One thing I'm to kind of in the balance is like just the kind of the social pathologies too that you know you're you're dealing with a a treatment clinic healthcare with the housing and so you have two crisises that are like socially oriented. Um and that's like one of the context I'm looking at.

In addition, if I could just add this is also not zoned residential. This property is zoned hospital. Um so obviously that there was some thought process into expansion of the existing hospital and what might be appropriate in terms of boundaries for that and this property lies within that. They've gutted out the neighborhood already for the expansion. It's all right. That's a good one. Thank you Sarah. That helps. Anybody wish to make a motion one way or the other?

I would just know that if you whatever you decide if you decide to approve it that you make a conditional approval to have the final plans be submitted to the planning department for review before. Okay. Well, I think that I I'm going to make a motion to declare COD lead agency in this. I'll second. Thank you. All in favor? I. And then I'm going to make a motion to declare an unlisted action. Second. I'll second. Thank you. Got to get quick over there. Everybody's in favor. Okay. All eyes are on you.

All right. Uh, the city of Bingmpington historic design guidelines provide the following recommendations that address demolitions. Do not demolish historic structures that have historic or architectural significance within the city of Bingmpington. Do not demolish a building that contributes to the historic setting and character of a district. Do not demolish a building that contains historic building materials or evidence of historic craftsmanship that would be difficult or impossible to replicate or reproduce. Do not demolish a building that is a rare example of its type, style, period of construction, or historic associations. Buildings should not be demolished without definitive plans for the reuse of the property. The reuse of the property should never be a parking lot, which would generally have a negative impact on the overall character of a street. Do not demolish a building when reasonable efforts can be made to maintain its structural integrity. If a historic building is active and is earning a reasonable economic return, it is not appropriate to demolish the building, even if the return is not deemed to be the highest and best use. The proposed demolition does not appear to be in conflict with these guidelines. Um, therefore, I make a motion for a negative declaration of historic significance.

I'll second that. All in favor?

Okay. Give me just a minute. I've got to find another piece of paper I've misplaced. Okay. No, still give me a minute. I'm sorry, folks. Shan was nice enough to point out my shortcoming and I'm trying to correct So could you say on the record what you said to me while I'm looking for my missing

I was just saying that the impact statement uh seeker part two uh for every box that is not marked by the staff you as all like group needs to collectively decide whether it's going to have no or small impact or or moderate to large impact as a group not just you know reading up the list. Um and obviously if you decide it on anonymously then you say it's not going to have impact or it's going to have a small impact. So just moving forward. Okay, we all understand that. Who's up for this one? That'd be me. Start straw, didn't you?

Will the proposed action create a material conflict with an adopted land use plan or zoning regulations? No. Will the proposed action result in a change in the use or intensity of use of land? Yes. Small but none. Small impact. Driveway on both sides of it already. Will the proposed action impair the character or quality of the existing community? So that'll diminish part of it and it'll improve the other part of it.

Small to I I would say small impact. Will the proposed action have an impact on the environmental characteristics that cause the establishment of a critical environmental area? That's already checked. Small impact. Will the proposed action result in an adverse change in the existing level of traffic or affect existing infrastructure for mass transit, biking or walkway? It will, right? It's going to drive more people out that way. It's going to be a means of egress that I would argue it might be better traffic pattern, but it'll be more traffic. It's probably going to be the same number of vehicles just safer. Correct. Okay.

Small impact. Yeah. Will the proposed action cause an increase in the use of energy and it fails to incorporate reasonably available energy conservation or renewable energy opportunities? No. Less energy than a building. Will the proposed action impact existing public and private water supplies or public and private wastewater treatment utilities? No. No. No. Will the proposed action impair the character or quality of important historic, archaeological, architectural, or aesthetic resources? No. No.

Will the proposed action result in an adverse change to natural resources? Example, wetlands, water bodies, groundwater, air quality, flora, and fauna? That's already checked. No. Will the proposed action result in an increase in the potential for erosion, flooding, or drainage problems? Yeah. Planning approval conditional, right, for that? Yep. The uh were any of you on board when Ken Ellsworth was the the chairman? I replaced him.

Okay. So, being Keystone, I'm I feel pretty confident that he would understand what's required so as not to have anybody come back at at the firm. You got you have a good firm, by the way. Okay. Yeah. With the proposed plan, only 50% of it, less than 50% is proposed to be the driveway. Yeah. The other 50 to 55% is Yep. So, we're good with no green space to know. So, I would say no impact. Yep. I agree with you. Will the proposed action create a hazard to environmental resources or human health? That's already checked. No. So based on the above, I make a motion to declare this a negative declaration.

I would second your motion, sir. All in favor? I I make it pretty. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you folks. And I do understand that as a condition to that the we need to come back. Uh did you vote for it to be not historically significant? Is that did you Okay. But okay. So it would be a conditional approval for a conditional approval. Okay. Thank you, Sarah. Did we vote to approve the demo? Do we? I think we we voted to declare negative declaration.

Make an amendment to the uh motion to carry that is a conditional um approval based on um you coming back for final approval. All in favor? Second. Second. All in favor? I Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. We just want to see you again. That's all. Okay. Last but not least on the schedule of business, 500 Gillian Drive. When you get seated, sir, state your name, please. David Yakabelli, owner of 500 Gillan Drive in Bang.

Thank you for being here. Now, in the interest of full disclosure, once again, not that I didn't know Sarah Grace, but she's been before us enough that we're good there. Um, my co-promoter for the Bingington Shriners Antique Show does house cleanouts and sales. He called my wife to look at some clothing about two or three weeks ago. I accompanied her on the visit and it turned out to be at the gentleman's house that is coming before us. I did no business with the gentleman. No money changed hands, but I did walk around the property quite extensively because I was intrigued and I saw the carriage house and I don't think we have a conflict of interest, but I have to to say this and look for some response to proceed. Corporation council.

Yes. Yes. Yes. So, we're good to go. Yes. Okay. No conflict of interest exists. Let us proceed. Sir, make your case.

Uh, the home at 500 Gillan is uh been in need of a roof for I don't know the the amount of time uh decades. And that's probably the the beginning of the problems, but uh it has had little to no maintenance during that same time period. So, water has poured down to the interior of the house and destroyed it. Um there are some drill holes in the exterior where it looks like some blown in insulation may have been put in many years ago. And uh all of that has become water soaked and molded the interior and exterior of the home. Um just extensive water damage throughout. Uh in the basement we have a crumbling foundation. It's an old stone foundation. The one side that takes on water from the driveway uh deteriorated pretty good.

Mr. Hakabelli, how long have you owned the property? Uh, the property closed in January, I believe. So, you've owned it since January, correct? So, you bought it knowing with all these issues and problems. Have you done anything to temporarily cover the roof or No, no, it I it was shot. Or maybe the photos are up here. They weren't in what I printed out. There was a lot of photos of the interior. Do you have any photos of the building as well? I I have There we go. Okay. I have uh photos for everyone. If I could hand them out, that would be great. Pass them out at this time just so we can

I'm just going to state again. Here's a property that I guess was going to remove some housing units whether they're ideal or not. Uh the roof certainly looks straight and I know in some of these photos that we had had you had sent some stuff last meeting and there's some modern amenities in there. So there was recently someone living there like this. I believe they were living in it until they sold it to this gentleman but the previous owner responsible for neglect. Look that looks like Reynolds. I mean it's Yep. beautiful wood floors. I just the challenge is another bit of housing gone.

Yeah. Uh I think when you read, you know, the guidelines, it's going to say that we need to have a plan for the the reuse and it's certainly a large piece of property right of the city of Bingington, perfect for a development, multiple family. 35 acres. Is that what I It's pretty large. Correct. Yeah. in access to the property. Is that off H Hotchkiss? No. No, it's off of Gillan. Oh, it wrapped It wraps all the way around Hotchkiss. Wow. It's a a dirt dirt path. I had numbered all of the uh pictures. So, I thought if anyone saw a picture that was of interest to them, I could try and address it.

Yeah. I mean, this is a rarer example, too, which is John, how did you

I'll chitchat for a minute if if that's okay because I was up there. The There's two structures to the main house. The original one probably went up around late 1850s, 1860 with a later substantial addition about 1870s to 1880 because you have the introduction of some American aesthetic movement stuff. Cool as can be. Um, very few of the rooms was the ceilings on both first and second floor if not the floors compromised because of water, black mold. If you look at now I'm give me a second for a picture. I had it in my hand like if you look at picture number 13, which is the gas man coming in that they drilled to get in there. I was standing there looking and when I was in the cellar, the foundation wall underneath where they drilled that gas pane and never covered it up. The foundation is uh buckling and the the structures already collapsed. There's about three or four places in there that I witnessed that. I think that is number 22. You can see the water and the gas line coming through. 23. Um, really cool house. Really cool elements.

Look at the fur floors. The carriage house is to die for. Fortunately, that's not coming up here today. Those panled walls. Yeah. Um, I I personally think it's more of a project for pass to come in than to try and and save with the amount of black mold and different things that I saw in there. Um, I actually put a tissue over my face when I was walking through because I have some respiratory issues and I just You were in there. Do you have an opinion?

Well, I I do love the house. beautiful from a from a historic preservation standpoint. Um it has quite a storied past um having the original owner as um Charles M. Dickinson, quite a prominent figure in Bingmpington's history. Um it has also a history later on as a bed and breakfast. So it has been a staple of the community. Um so I do want to point out that and emphasize the significance in Bingmpington itself. I'm going to point out number 51. Also, that material was holding water while I was in the house. And the floor below the clothes rack by that mirror would not sustain weight. It was already compromised to the floor below it. Um, I'm not trying to be devil's advocate here and I do architectural restoration. In my opinion, unfortunately, I think it should come down. That's an opinion I can only express.

And we don't have any proof that it should. We don't have any structural engineer survey. No hazardous materials survey or any Did you do any of that, sir? Structural engineer. No, there's been an asbestous survey done. I would recommend checking with Rebecca and code because I uh searched this property under um city uh the database earlier today and I saw that she had submitted a request for an inspection to be done. I'm not sure if that was completed. When was it? Um it was

it was done about roughly two weeks ago from what I can recall off the top of my head. So it would be worth checking in with her to see what if anything has been done. Did you have a code inspection done, sir? Rebecca and David came to the house. Okay. And and walked through the home. And that's noted in the in the staff report. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. In one of a small paragraph uh what page on you know one Yeah, a four at the top.

I'll just read it. Um so according to a city building inspector uh some rooms inside the house were so unsafe it was not advisable to walk in them. There are large structural cracks in some rooms and severe water damage on the second floor as well as some spots on the first floor. According to the applicant, the building is unsafe and un inhabitable. The uh do you mind if I speak please? This is your time to

Okay. Uh the bathroom area with the u someone has put the sheet to redirect the water. So that was supported by a a piece of pine pine tree which goes down onto the lower deck which hits nothing but a rotted out uh deck board. So, uh I I do believe it would shortly that side of the house will come down where the bathroom is where you're seeing that sheet. Um I I just I don't see a piece of the house that doesn't have some water damage or some needs some repair. I'm gonna step.

Yeah, that's dropped probably six to eight inches at this point. I mean, you can I think you can see it in the photograph. Um, can I stop you for one second, sir? Um, the board wishes to recognize and welcome Commissioner Jonathan Weissberger. Please state your name for the record. Jonathan Weissberg. And time. Time? 1:10 p.m. He's in. Thank you. Okay, go ahead. Sorry about that.

That's okay. Uh, you know, I I personally recognize the the architecture and the significance of of the home. Um, I guess I guess you know we're all people here and I and I understand that it's I wouldn't have been interested if it was an unattractive piece of property or an unattractive home. Um, what it would take to put that home back together is frankly more than I can I don't see how you'd put it that back together. Um, financially you'd be you'd be bankrupt. I don't know how to how I don't know what amount of money it would take to dig out that old foundation to repair that old foundation to repair.

So, let me ask another question going forward. So, I have an opinion about it, too, and I'm looking I like the second floor door that goes nowhere like the Winchester Mystery Mansion. Um, should you be successful today, there are significant architectural elements inside, planning on reusing them when you develop the carriage house? Planning on calling past in for some salvage. It's not just going to get all bulldozed, right? Absolutely not. I, you know, I I don't wish, but I, you know, I wish I was wealthy enough to to do something like that. I guess I I No, I'm going to try and take whatever I can from the home and salvage it and repurpose it.

Then I'm going to stop you once again, sir, because I don't want to live here all my day. I'm going to make a motion to declare this an unlisted action. Second. Thank you. All in favor? I. I'm going to make a motion to uh declare a call to lead agency. Second. Thank you. All in favor? I I I Okay, Jonathan, I think it's his turn to read.

Right. Don't you get penalized for being late? Give him the long compatibility with historic guidelines. The city of Bingmpington historic design guidelines provide the following recommendations that address demolitions. Do not demolish historic structures that have historic or architectural significance within the city of Bingmpington. Do not demolish a building that contributes to the historic setting and character of a district. Do not demolish a building that contains historic building materials or evidence of historic craftsmanship that would be difficult or impossible to rep replicate or reproduce. cannot demolish a building that is a rare example of this type, style, period of construction, or historic associations. A building should not be demolished without definitive plans for the reuse of the property. The reuse of the property should never be a parking lot, which would generally have a negative impact on the overall character of a street. Do not demolish a building when reasonable efforts can be made to maintain its structural integrity. If a historic building is active and is earning a reasonable economic return, it is not appropriate to demolish the building even if the return is not deemed to be the highest and best use. Tell them what to do. Motion to declare not historically significant.

I'll second your motion due to condition. All in favor? Yes. No. Maybe. I'm sorry. A motion to declare it historically not significant due to condition. I deny. I'm against it. That's okay. So, we have four in favor, one against. The motion passes. Okay. Number two. And I side with you. I just

Yeah, that's fine. I There's not enough I mean, I can understand the applicant wanting to tear it down and not really wanting to tear it down, but not having, you know, a lot of options uh at this point. But we don't have anything other than the applicants, you know, concerns. Um, even code walk through, you know, I don't know if code can provide a letter of, you know, impending doom of the building. I know they're not an engineering firm, but I've seen that happen in in buildings before. Um, in their letter, well, that's from the Yeah, yeah, that's not the wording that's in the code

the application. I wonder if they can provide something that's maybe a little more meaningful or or the applicant can hire, you know, an engineer to do an evaluation and provide a report, but the shortcut might be uh the code department. Is she in her office? Jenny, potentially they could follow up with that code real quick and ask if she's available, please. Sorry to make you work. When Dave and Rebecca did go through the property,

um Rebecca refused to go into the basement because it was so uninhabitable. Um David went down. But I just just to give you a level of level of gross, right? I I was in the basement. Yep. In the building. not a tear down person, but it was bad. Yeah, none of us are. Yeah. See if she can reach code just to get them on the record. Okay. Okay. Bear with us for a minute.

You know, and I understand too the the cost. That's what I do all the time and the costs are super challenging to build new construction. It will blow your mind. And the the cheapest is to reuse what you have. And I know it's a my understanding is tough animal. Bring the carriage house up to make it his home. So that's not listed here. So that is going to remain. Can you bring up exempt that from this? Yeah. And that will be fully maintained. And this is what he's part of my conversation. He's hoping to do some salvage to bring stuff in to bring it up.

It's a cool carriage house. I'm thinking 1850s board and batten. It's It's killer cool inside. So doesn't have the same rot rotted sill around the perimeter. Water damage infiltration of the foundation. I just don't want to get here again next year when this has to be torn down too. The tree has to go away from the upper left but it has no valleys. The other one the biggest problem was the valleys are all retaining water and then the rot set in. I mean, the moss on the one roof alone, that's 20, 30 years of growth, it's just a bad thing.

There's there was a a hole in the roof of the barn when I purchased it, which I've already repaired. So, it's not my intention in the least to tear the barn down. It's in my intention to bring the barn up. I have to make a pit stop while she's trying to reach code if you'd excuse me for just a moment. Jacob, will you clarify? Do you intend to live in the barn or build a different house where 500 Gillan is listed and live in that house? For the record,

uh, I think whatever I can make happen, one of the two, one of the two, either build a new structure or, you know, or or live in the barn. I don't know. Those are a lot of decisions from where I'm at. But either way, the old barn is is beautiful, and it's just my intention to do whatever I can to keep it going. So, is this Was this a multif family?

I don't know if I know the answer to that. Not it was a single family that I purchased it from. Okay. Actually, it was a single gentleman single family. However, it was operated as a a bed and breakfast at one point. So, in last century, any idea when Wait, you probably have it in your research. Sorry.

No, it's all right. Uh it was operated by Judith B. Kiering who uh was the owner from 1972 to 1995. So around that period. Okay. We're waiting for the code enforcement officer. Um, we did have our vote on the previous. I'm going to ask that you read the second part just in the interest of not being here until four o'clock this afternoon. Who has part number two? Dan or Mike? Oh, you.

Oh, I got this. Will the proposed action create a material conflict with an adopted land use plan or zoning regulations? That's already checked. No. Will the proposed action result in a change in the use or intensity of use of land? Nope. I don't believe so. Will the proposed action impair the character or quality of the existing community? They improve it. Sorry. No. No. Will the proposed action have an impact on the environmental characteristics that cause the establishment of a critical environmental area? No.

Nope. Will the proposed action result in an adverse change in the existing level of traffic or affect existing infrastructure for mass transit, biking or walkway? No. No. Son, can you?

Will the proposed action cause an increase in the use of energy and it fails to incorporate reasonably available energy conservation or renewable energy opportunities? That's already checked. No. Will the proposed action impact existing public and private water supplies or public and private wastewater treatment utilities? That's already checked. No. Will the proposed action impair the character or quality of important historic, archaeological, architectural, or aesthetic resources? I don't believe so. I don't think so at this time.

No. No. Will the proposed action result in an adverse change to natural resources? Example, wetlands, water bodies, groundwater, air quality, flora, and fauna. That's already checked. No. Will the proposed action result in an increase in the potential for erosion, flooding, or drainage problems? Don't believe so. Probably approve it. Will the proposed action create a hazard to environmental resources or human health?

Don't believe so, but I'm going to ask that we hold off on the final determination to after code is spoken before us. And while we have some idle time, let's go back to the proposed action impair the character or quality of important historic, archaeological, architectural or aesthetic resources. You're thinking small impact at least. So I would I would say the other box moderate to large just the fact of the history of the house and the new character that's put into the staff report here. It was a spectacular house. It's fantastic.

You know, I when I purchased my home 20 years ago, our roof had collapsed in several places and the only thing that saved my house was it actually collapsed into the third floor bathtub. So, the water had drainage and his collapsed to the basement, everywhere. I mean, the ceilings, the walls, um, nothing was able to drain it off. I wouldn't spend a night in there, but that's just me. So, if this part two is determined to be negative declaration that he's allowed to de demo the property, right? So, we talked about past having the opportunity to salvage. Where does that get written in any of this at all?

That'll be uh in the motion when we push it forth. It would be a conditional approval. I believe we'll you'll have to go back on your approval for the building to be considered um in histo on a historical and make the motion. Don't get comfy. Come on down. Come on down. Just take a seat here. Make the motion as a conditional approval to allow to implement the conditions you wish to do. So,

young lady, please just push the green button. State your name. Sir, come on along. I don't have another chair for you. You can grab one if you want to. So, you are the inspector. Okay. Please state your name for the record. Glad you're here. And sir, please state your name for the record. Dave Watson. Thank you, Dave. Before we make our final vote, we need something from your office to tell us is it a habitable house? Is it deteriorated beyond repair? Would you live there? Yes. No. Maybe.

Currently, no. Okay. Did you find it to be unsafe and structurally unsound in your in your capacity as as your office allows you? Parts of it. Yeah. Okay. Jeff. Jeff, do you want to ask some questions? Um, in in your past experience, you've probably issued some sort of letters of like non-habitability, right? for for properties like right in this case. I mean, I don't I didn't look before we came down here, but I don't remember if we um gave an unsafe structure letter on the property or not. Okay. Um but yeah, I mean parts of the building are definitely have issues. So, you have another copy of your pictures. Could you just hand the gentleman for a minute? We just

So, so there may have been an unsafe structure letter issued on this. I'm not sure while back. I'm not sure if there has been. I think that would be great for the files if and if that's the case. Take a quick glance. So, we just want to make sure we're all safe on our board. I mean, it's a really cool building obviously, which is why he bought it. Has a lot of architectural details and things. And just from the photos, you know, in my experience, I'm not afraid. I've seen a lot worse. But I haven't been in the building, which is why you all are here. I mean that's why we essentially we had recommended to get a structural engineer to look at the building because you know I mean we have we have some experience but not to that level you know so um yeah some rooms we couldn't go into because of the structure but

right it's a very large property so that's why we had you know recommended to get an engineer to look at the building because it's beyond our expertise right so okay when I first Thank you I'm sorry go ahead

when I first uh went in the building uh last fall. There was not these cracks in the third second floor. When I went back in after purchasing it, going through, you know, the buying process, we had cracks, structural cracks all upstairs. Uh 48 49 uh you can see it in 46 over the doorway. I can see it in 43 above the doorway. Um but those are all within the path. 39 is a big one. That's a big one.

Is that 39 39? Yeah, 39. I guess 39 and 40 are about all the same crack, but those are new. That's within the past six months. I'd like to reference the code for the board's consideration

um under section 18-84.1 section B. This is for the procedure for determination of historical significance for demolition. Section B states that deterioration caused by deliberate neglect of maintenance or repairs by owner shall not be considered valid grounds for a negative determination of historic significance or for the approval of a demolition permit application. Um we just heard that there are new cracks. However, it sounds to me, and I'm not an expert in this field by any means, but it sounds to me that a lot of the structural defects may may have uh likely predated his ownership. However, I think it would be in the board's best interest to review an engineering report to know for sure what's going on with the property.

Okay. When was this property last inhabited? When was it last inhabited? Yeah. Yeah, I purchased it from the owner who was living there and they were living there at the time on the couch. So, when you viewed the house initially with the realtor, you didn't see those cracks. Somebody was living there and most likely heating the space. Say that again. I'm sorry. When you viewed the house for the first time with the realer, somebody was living there at the time. Correct.

And you didn't see any of those cracks. U they may be structural. Um, but the space was most likely being heated. And if this was last fall, you purchased the property, it went, it sat through the winter, maybe unheated, most likely. The closing wasn't until late January, early February, and I left the heat on. Okay. So, the heat was on during that whole time. Correct.

Okay. because those those cracks um I guess for the record I am a structural engineer and the cracks without seeing what's supporting the structure could be structural but they could also be just shrinkage of the plaster due to cold weather. So I wouldn't I wouldn't be so quick to say that they're structural cracks. they may just be plaster cracks and unless the structure underneath has settled or in some way shifted u that may not necessarily be a structural issue.

So I mean overall I'm kind of inclined to take the advice of corporate council with it would be good to see a structural report. I think we see this a fair amount and I kind of brought it up in the guidelines where it's like that edge that knife edge between very rare structure that is definitely worth preserving and then kind of that that gray area where is it possible to preserve it. So um I would be interested in that before doing a final vote on this. Um I don't don't want to speak for the whole board but I you know let me know how you guys feel about that. I'll go with the I'll go with the majority. Um, but I was looking back at pictures 22, 23, and 24. And again, I've been in the building. Um, I think that shows rather significant compromising to the structure of the foundation. And these are three separate walls underneath the the building. Um but given reference for structural engineering, if that's what you think is in our best interest at this time, then we should be okay. So there we go.

Then um if I may add, um I did not see any letter from the building department and in the system that we share. So they just did the sided smoke, but there is no letter on file.

Okay. We need a letter from building construction. And uh got another question for you, Dan. Aren't you glad you attended today? Um my inclination is to take the vote and either approve or or not approve it for uh potential demolition pending the structural engineers report. And if it comes in negative, he would have his approval to to go ahead. If it comes in positive, then he would not have his approval. Is that a appropriate means of pushing forward rather than have to come back for a whole another meeting? I'm asking for advice. I don't know.

Yeah. I I don't know if that would be appropriate. I would have to get back to you on that. Um my I'm inclined to say it's not appropriate that you would have to adjourn the vote. Okay. Um see what the report shows and then convene to vote after that. Okay. That's that's what I just needed some working stuff. So I I do request this to be tabled. Yes, that's just right where we're headed. So, par our uh reference from corporation council and from our uh staff member Tessa, I'm going to make a motion to table uh 500 Genan. Am I pronouncing that right? Uh Gillan.

Gillan. Um pending a submission of a structural engineers report for a final vote and approval. Also, that being said, we would like to see something from building construction coming down. Sir, can I So, of course you can. The only reason that we would write an unsafe structure letter in this instance would be to like bypass an asbestous survey, which wouldn't really benefit the owner at all because you're not allowed to take asbestous material to the landfill anymore. So, it'd be very costly. It would be probably less costly if you got an asbestous survey on the property because then you could find out if it didn't have any as, you know what I mean? So, that's why the unsafe structure letter is not going to really determine anything other than that.

Okay. So, I don't know if we're going to actually write an unsafe structure letter for that because we we actually walked around in the building. So, an asbestous survey can be done in the building. Is there anything that we would ask um of that department at this point? What's your question? I'm sorry. Do we So, they're not going to do an unsafe letter because it may dealt with asbestous. Um would we be looking for a letter about living conditions? um safe otherwise is it habitable? Is it uninhabitable? Yes. Um because they indicated earlier that they it is beyond their area of expertise to make that determination.

Okay. I I think I was asking if we needed something from code office for the file. I don't believe so because they have already performed the inspection. So at this point we would need um an expert engineer to inspect the property. Okay. So, now I'm back on track again. Thank you for coming down, guys. Go have coffee, whatever. We appreciate your time. Okay, we're going to make a motion to table this pending a review of a structural engineers report. Anything else that we need to put in this at this time? So, we can put this on the agenda for next month's meeting. Correct. If not sooner. Yeah. Right. If we get

I would be immediable to a special session if if we get the information depending on if we can schedule. Okay. Second. One second. Second. All in favor? I. Okay. You need to get us a structural engineers report. Okay.

Okay. And then ASAP get to this nice group of people over here, Shayen and Tessa, and maybe we could do a special session for you without having to wait till next month. Okay. But next month is coming up literally in next week. So hurry. Thank you, sir. Thank you for being here. Okay. So that takes care of scheduled business. We have Mr. Graasso here from the Robertson uh Center of the Arts and Sciences. Is that the correct title? I grew up there 30 years ago. What do you call yourselves now?

That doesn't seem as impressive. Geez. No, it's it's it's all good. I mean, that that I literally when I was 14, that was my stop and ground. Mhm. Yeah, that must be science, right? Kick back and look at the pictures. Michael, do you want to give your spiel on Robersonson or Robertson? For the record,

it's Robertson. My mom knew her. Thank you, sir. Michael, welcome. Glad you're here.

Looks pretty cool. I think we got a good plan in front of us. I'm excited about it. Um, name for the record, sir. Michael Graco, executive director of Roersonson Museum. Thank you for being here, Michael. My pleasure. Um, do I start? Do you want me to talk? What do you want me to do? You can start talking.

Okay. Uh, Roersonson is in the midst of a capital campaign that hopefully will wrap up at the end of this year. Um, the museum sections have not had significant construction done on them in a while. Uh the last edition that was put on was the Bingington Visitor Center back in the 1990s. Prior to that it was the Ford wing which houses classrooms and our collections vault that was in the 1980s. And then of course there is the uh what we still call the modern wing um that was built in the 1960s. So we are looking at doing some upgrades to the facility. much needed. Uh hoping to improve our sustainability both financially and environmentally. Um a lot of the black glass spandrel that you see on the museum currently is all single pane. Um actually we can't get it anymore. It's too large. Uh we tried to replace a piece and it was like $15,000. So we 86 that and that's why there's an astronaut on the side of the building now. Um the other glazing that's on the window again all 1960s single pained. Um my office is up in that area and during the winter it's about 96 degrees in there. Um so we're trying to make some corrections to that both for comfort but also for our collections objects. Robersonson houses about 35,000 objects in total. 25,000 of those are um the threedimensional collection of the Broom County Historical Society. We house all of their 3D stuff as well as our own. Um the overarching plan is a reconfiguration of interior space. Um and also I guess what I would call recladding of the building envelope. Um

this is to make it more accessible on the interior. um improve flows and that kind of thing. Um but the exterior needs significant work. We have a lot of broken glass that we've been unable to repair. Um some of you may remember the original design of the main wing uh that had these large vertical fins on it. They were aluminum and from what I what I'm told uh they were actually very cool. They um covered I think two of our three-story building and there was a sensor on top of the roof that would watch the sun go across the sky in the 1960s and they would turn a little bit to block the sun out. Um that worked for approximately two years and stopped because the building was originally conceived um by an architect from the southwest who did not understand what ice dams are. So that didn't last very long. Um, those fins were removed back in I want to say maybe 2008ish. They'd become unsafe. Um, so we want to get back to that kind of architectural style by in um adding in the verticality of this new design that's been created. Uh, reducing the glazing particularly in gallery areas so that the windows all face northwest. Um, so there's no direct sunlight coming in into their those gallery spaces, but we still get natural light. Um, so yeah, that's the basis of the uh design concept. Thank you, sir. Questions, comments, gentlemen, ladies? Big project for sure. um our purview would it be just the

exterior of the building or because this was a public building are we also the reconfiguration for some of the public interior spaces as well my understanding is we have both in this type of project because it is public okay and it has nothing to do with the mansion so it just be the public display spaces and curated spaces so it wouldn't be the offices it wouldn't be the lower level I think we can kind pair that down a little bit to figure out what we That's looking at as I understand it. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before. I'm probably going to be wrong again in my life, but probably not on this one. That's my understanding. Um,

is there a difference between open to the public and publicly owned? Thanks. So, depending on I understand the difference with our authority to

if I understood the guidelines We have purveyance over obviously exterior and over public areas with it. So security mutual life would be my example. The exterior of the building certainly falls before us. But that beautiful double staircase marble entry also falls before us. Past that I don't think we have much say. Maybe a hallway here or there, but I don't think so. Um, and this go this is going back I think Peter Lange was around at the time when we were doing this stuff that that sort of hallway. The Bingmpington Press building we have say over the outside and we should have had say over the remodeling of the main entryway in the first floor. None of that seemed to come before us. Thank you Mr. Anzeroot. Can't answer that question but you know things just happen. Um, so with this, we have say over the outside and we should have say over the the main galleries, the entryway where they're proposing the cafe and um but not the offices and the private areas. I I don't think we do. If you are reconfiguring public space to private, so and I'm going to drop back. You used to have the Edwin Link Gallery up on the second floor. I I don't know if it's still there or not. I haven't been up in a while. that would come before us. But if you're going to make that offices, you still would have to come before us to get approval to make that offices and not public. That's my understanding. Again, I could be wrong, but that's as I understood it because it's been public for 20, 30, 40 years.

Sorry, I'm trying to think of a way to ask this question without sounding argumentative. No, no, go ahead. That wouldn't be you, Michael. It's fine. This We are the best commission in the city of Bingington. You ask any way you want. No doubt. Um, the building has been reconfigured hundreds of times over the course of the last 70 years. So I'm trying to understand how COD has purview about what exhibits we put where and if it does

not not exhibits over the space. So you're in the main building, new the new wing. That's I'm not talking about the mansion. The long gallery on both the first and second floor ground level to me is first floor. And so they've been public uh art gallery and and exhibit space since day one that I can even think of.

And I believe we would have purview over that area. So if you're going to change exhibits, we we don't particularly care. We're happy because we like variety. Um if you were going to do a little reconfiguring with say uh temporary walls or stansions so you can hang more artwork don't really care. If suddenly that wing becomes office space then we we care. So the distinction would be change of use from public use to private use. Okay. consider an office to be private, although it's within your your entity, but it's not like I I would not walk into your office thinking I have the right to look around

because it's your office. And the same thing with everybody else. Got it. Okay. So, the spaces that are currently public will continue to be public. There's no change.

That's And if not, just let us know and you certainly have allies. Um but we just need to know. So when you say it's been changing shape for the past 40, 50, 80 years, whatever. Yes. And the city has unfortunately not had a COD commission andor not had a commission that totally understood its responsibilities which have continually been changing because of Shipo and whatnot and also not recognize the authority to to make the world a better place which is really what we're trying to do. You know, that's that's a huge amount of of what we're we're trying. Other comments, questions, anybody? Yeah,

I think I was kind of getting the root at like what are the character defining features that says this is Robersonson that I might be focused in on. There's a lot going on that's going to be touched and needs to be touched. You know, what are the few things that, you know, we might be concerned about and what are the other stuff that he's got a lot of approvals he's got to go through anyway. So, not just us. We we we help the situation. Okay. We're here to help. We really are.

So, you're in the in the process now of starting up taking this information and and putting it more in detail. Okay. So, there will be more steps along the way where we can maybe be kept up to speed as to what the progress is. Okay.

Sure. My um my interest in having a discussion about this now is that we are going to be moving forward with our architects within the next few weeks. Um they're coming for a walkthrough tomorrow. We'll have contracting done within the next hopefully two or three. Um and there is not a scenario in which we are going to hand off the schematic design to the architects as it currently exists and then change it. So, if there are comments about the way that the exterior looks, now is the time. I like it myself. I thought it was cool.

Also thought it's kind of long overdue. That's just me. Yeah. I mean, obviously the observatory is just for me a feature. We weren't there as kids. Now, I see in the plan that you're going to turn into a conference room, uh, you know, possibly, but no, the planetarium is where it is. maintaining that that round uh shape I think will be good and it looks like and your renderings you're keeping that yes it's it'll stay exactly in the same place it has a giant dome and my office looks over it'd be hard to move that dome so the outside the inside might not be a planetarium anymore it'll still be a planetarium all right so the it says conference room here but

that's a different space that's not the planetarium gotcha It is also just round for I think you know keeping that courtyard off of Front Street is important. Yep.

Um that big hole so you can see the whole facade of the building. I think I'm just rattling off a bunch of stuff here because you're asking for it, Mike. You know, um I look at the back of the building where it says Bingmpington Visitor Center sign. you know, the the upper part of the building looks like it's kind of on peers or plints. It's a little more open on the ground floor than it is above. And it looks like, at least on these renderings, you're kind of keeping that some of those columns that come through on the corners of the train room and around your entrance, you're keeping the entrance in the same location.

Yes. Um I I I think there's nothing interesting about the the glass curtain wall system that's there now other than it's structural. Uh so that that'll be a challenge to to redo that. Um but $15,000 pieces of glass. Um I I don't know. I mean I I there's not one single thing that stands out. Maybe interior there might be something. I think more importantly that it's goes into the 21st and 22nd centuries.

Like you said, it's been redone so much and just on that walkthrough that I went through for this project. Kudos to you all, you know, functioning in that building. I'm kind of happy to see the cafe because when I go there, I'm usually there for hours and it'd be really nice to get a cup of coffee or something snack on. I think it's great. I'm excited. Are we Go ahead. Thank you. Get him a conductor's hat, Jonathan. Are we being asked to render an opinion or just

Well, you're supposed to provide comments that you have. So that way this would be like final sort of period to provide comments. So they can take the comments and implement them for a final design since they don't want to go back and forth with their architects uh due to limited budget in that aspect. So they want to provide the final version yeah implement the board's comments to the architect and then my understanding is that then they will come to you all for a vote. Is that the I assume that's the requirement. Okay.

Any comments about the proposed exterior as presented at this time? It's kind of hard because these have been around for for a long time. I I just think if you just keep us up to date when you're architects get another set of drawings, ship it to us. We can look at it. If we have any comments, we'll let you know. Yeah, we could email my way to produce it firsthand. I don't want to be a hindrance. I think if we're kept along the way, we can see the progress and what reality will be. Where's the flag pole going to be? I You mean the three of them that don't have flags on them currently? Well, I'm thinking the new one you'd have a flag pole somewhere.

I'm uh I am actually a very patriotic person and I think flag code is very important and the reason there are no flags is because we do not currently have a way to light them correctly. Ah, cool. Thank you. We got to do a flag display one time. Be fun. Any other comments, suggestions? Then I'm going to thank Mr. Graasso for his time and understanding and wish him all the best in this project going forward. Thank you very much. Cool. And I will second that. All the best. Cool, Michael. Thank you. Any other new business at hand?

Any other old business at hand? And I'm going to kick my dead horse here. All right. Um I I would like to have a broader discussion on neighborhood encroachment. I understand that the um hospital that what is it 23 Mitchell is zoned for hospital is it a medical neighborhood? Okay. Neighborhood medical. Um but this is the second property that's come to us to be torn down um for expansion of parking for the hospital complex in that neighborhood. And

we denied the first one because it was just parking, right? This was it's that one's I think was taken down. They gutted the goddamn they gutted the neighborhood. Yeah. So I mean separate from this this is a discussion that we need to have and um carry it through to the planning department. Um I mean that was an appropriate decision that was made here but I want to take it a little further. Well, they're going to go for the next house in a couple years and the next house and the next house in the church in Johnson City on Main Street. Are they Are they going to take that down? Yeah. No. Are they proposing?

I just imagine more parking is always the big thing. They took down the church that was right next door. I don't I don't know. I don't That'd be a cultural crime. Yeah. Um, do we need something from from city council legislation about Well, I'm going to talk with planning and we would most likely review it and possibly propose an an amendment to chapter 410 or to that that zoning area of the area and just classify it as a R3. So should a recommendation come from us to go to city council to consider it or should we

you you can do a recommendation of the changes you would like to be made. Um and then there will be RL submitted to have it approved by the city reviewed and approved by city council. Um but they would have the final vote to implement that portion. Should the recommendation go for planning commission to review this proposed modification to the zoning uh in that area? Well, are you trying to change the zoning in that area? Is that the recommendation for from card or is that just

I'm not sure how it ever got away from being residential considering it was a neighborhood. I I don't know when that happened or how long ago it happened. Maybe like some sort of overlay district where we understand it's medical but it's also key to that thriving neighborhood there. It's nice to drive around and not see asphalt everywhere. And well you here when they were trying to tear the other house down and we gave an adamant no and said well we need to expand parking and I said go up. There's no reason you can't put a parking ramp in as compared to just taking down you know another 10 houses. You achieve more parking. save the house. Yeah. I mean,

yeah. And you know, where where some of the people that don't have cars, nursing staff, candy stripers, whatever, going to going to live. I mean, a lot of want to live in close proximity to be able to commute to and from work. Everybody doesn't have a car. Shame we get sick. Would need such a structure. So would you like um the planning department to review this and potentially I I would I think that would be appropriate all in favor have planning review this for for consideration to kind of be more problematic for tearing houses down in a questionable zone district. I'm going to go with yes. Go with yes.

It should be on the radar like you said for housing just in general. Yeah. because it's it's eradicating they're still behind. You know, they're spending what is it? Uh $160,000 a unit first action council to build a unit and we just tore down two. We can spend up to 250,000 per unit and that's that has happened. That's more than my house cost. I don't think there I just want to note that if um discuss

23 Mitchell A is going to be subject to additional review then the property owner should be aware of that because from a legal standpoint I'm concerned about detrimental reliance on the decision rendered today with her decision to sell the property to UHS and UHS thinking okay we have the property now we can put down this um I thought we had the conditional approval in there for the motion. Did did we not

or it was conditional approval in the sense that they would have to submit a final plan to the planning department that complies with the guidelines. So they would have to do landscaping and all these other criteria um they would need to meet. But that that's as far as I I don't know anything about Yeah, I don't think that is sufficient. I think we would have to go back to the property owner and advise them that it would be subject to additional approval because I could see that becoming a problem legally if they aren't on notice of that in advance. Okay. Then I'm I'm going to suggest you tell us first rather than after. But that's not there.

I wasn't aware that this was going to be subject to additional review. Um had I known that I would have put a statement on the record. Okay. We didn't know either. Yeah, but we're we're trying to work this out for the best of the city, the betterment of the city. Um the it is. Yeah, but we also need the neighbor. We need housing. I'd make bank. That's got chestnut woodwork inside and some pretty stuff.

What they provided was on the final plan. Uh they just pro like a preliminary plan and we made a comments from the planning department is in the staff report. So um they obviously did not address those comments and they even sent us an email saying that this was just you know sort of a draft copy. It wasn't final plan. So once Yeah. So like we knew that there was going to be a final plan that they would have to come up with that addresses the points made in the staff report. So um they still how to do that. they can't just you know demo the house um without having that plan be submitted and we will review it and also submit it for card as well.

Okay, I do want to emphasize um both I and Solen had asked multiple times for interior photos and questions to be answered and they were not. Okay. Could you just have a memo to us about what you said going ahead so that when they're before us again I can submit that into the record? Sure. Some idiot. Thank you very much. You're welcome. See, I know I'm an idiot. I don't have any disclaimers about that.

Um before I guess administrative work before we depart, our next meeting is next week. We only have one applicant so far. It's the Kilmer mansion. Um, now we can if you is that for security or something? I think I believe it's it's for a signage. Okay. Um, so I'm on the board of directors at Kilmer which would make me have to recuse myself from this. So make sure if you have the quorum for it.

I guess that's my next thing. Um, we could do a special I don't like to do too many special sessions. That kind of throws us off the schedule. Um, but with our situation, we could do a spe special assessment middle of the month. That way, moving forward, we'll be back on schedule with every first of the month.

I'm going to interrupt you for a second, and this wasn't really public information. I'm scheduled for surgery on the 18th of May, and I'm going to be MIA probably for several weeks, a month or afterwards. I could do something via phone. I could do Zoom. I don't believe I would be capable of coming in to visit with y'all. It's just replacement parts, something to worry about. I will be taking a position with the city of Pingmpington. Congratulations. So, that might be difficult to maintain my commissioner status. I'll be in the engineering department. Uh the engineering department. Yeah. But I was going to make the announcement next meeting because it's

Does that present a conflict for him to remain on the board or do we have to Hello. How are you? We're so glad you're here. So, if he assumes the position with engineering, could you find out if he still can sit on the board? Yeah, I would definitely have to get back to you on that. I don't have an answer for you today. It's okay. I didn't either. That's why I'm asking. I'll be Yeah. When do you start that position? Uh May 11th. Okay. So, you'd be around for the next actual meeting and then after that, we're not sure. Would you still like to be on the commission if it works out that you can be? If I can. Correct answer. Good.

We had another question about um county employees if they could be on our commissions. So, yeah. Okay. Thank you. Are you ours going forward because we lost Robert? Yes. Oh, thank you. I would like the board to officially recognize the young lady here as our new representative corporation council. We're glad you're here. Thank you. And and I hope you find our commission to be the most fun and entertaining one in all the cities.

So, I guess we're it's likely that we may not have a special session. Um this is assuming that Dan cannot be on the commission because he's an employee of the city and there will be conflict of interest. This is just assumption. Um in that case we are we will be looking for I mean we're still looking for two more members to join the commission and we'll be looking for three members. Joe from uh Phelps Mansion ever respond. He said he Okay. Well speaking with him. Okay. Um, is this the Kilmer mansion or is this coming for the signage? Because I'm not aware of um showing up.

Is it Kilmer mansion or temple concord? It's Kilmer for like a signage that does not require a permit like a sign permit, but since it's a landmark property, it it needs to come before card. If you could show me what it says, I'd be kind of curious. I've been on top. And then I want to get back to uh Walnut Street to see if we can generate a letter before they close. I want this guy to know what he can't do to that property. I don't want to suddenly see windows and brackets and and the port kosher disappearing and the the windows out of the church. That's has to go to the real estate agent because she would have to in full disclosure give it to the potential buyer. the age.

So, will we have a quorum for April or May? If it's Temple Concord, I don't have a problem. If it's Kilmer Mansion, I have a conflict of interest. I have nothing to do with the temple. Okay. At all. So, tell me what the sign is. I could probably tell you. Okay. Because I'm I'm available. Okay. But if you do have a conflict of interest, then we need all other four members present. And this would be before Dan assumes the position. So it be fine and I'm not sure I'll be available on May 5th, but I'll offer

opinion in advance. And then using uh Walnut Street as as the precedent, we need to uh start doing this for other properties within the historic district, landmark properties, so when they do come for sale that they know exactly what's what's going on rather than have Johnny Munchko sit in here and read us a riot act. Not that he didn't know, but you know, but this is this is what you have to conform to or like a form letter. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have a problem being the signatory if it is appropriate, but I don't know if it should be your office or Yes.

So, the application that was submitted, it it names Temple Concord as applicant

and About time they got someone good. front doors. I'd also be

It was brought to their attention by attorneys. trespassing.

Right now, because I have to recuse myself, we went over what the application is. I can't be here. Jeff doesn't know. We don't have a forum as of right now. Um, we're hoping that can change, but because of the project is about the mansion and not the temple, I I can't do it because I'm on the board. That that is definitely there wasn't anybody here I didn't know, you know, yes, I was born here. I think Jimmy Torto put my driveway in like in 1987 or

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah's dad and her mom were were at my wedding. I go to her brother's restaurant all the time. Okay. Anything else before I make a motion to adjourn? Um, no. You can go ahead. We'll talk about the service off. Then I'm going to make a motion to adjourn the April 28. What's today's 28th? 28, 20026 COD meeting. Thank you. All in favor.