Billings County Commission - Regular Meeting

confirm. Okay. Thank you.

Well, it's a special meeting today and we only have one thing on the agenda, so that's all we can discuss. Um the item is um um cameras, surveillance uh in Billings County. And so the meeting was called because of uh there was some cameras put up um with without I guess u county commission permission without a uh a policy in place without anyone knowing. And so um I visited with Jared about it and he said, "Yeah, you need to call a special meeting to get all surveillance stopped and and then we'll move forward." So um I guess the first thing would be is all of the surveillance um taken down or shut off? It is. Yeah.

And you said you shut all of yours off, too. In the courthouse, too. Or the courthouse had a motion to put that on back in 21 when I came on. We made that motion. Mike and I did. Just want to make sure they're all Yeah, that's good. That's good question. And Kyle had told me there was one on his back in 19 or 20, but he still chose to take him down and just Yeah, that was that incident. Yeah.

And then is there any it you know we got a lot of phone calls. I did I mean over the weekend and um is there any surveillance or GPS tracking on any vehicles from anywhere on the sheriff's office? Well, there's not track or obviously our CA system that we use communicate with dispatch GPS for officer safety and that happens with the ambulance too. Huh? We we haven't ran CAD for years. you used to run it. Whether the system switched to stopped

and we used to have uh fleet medicics and the road crew uh some of the road crew equipment, but that was discontinued. It was through Verizon wireless. I think we have an obligent, don't we? For some reason, I think that's through John Deere. Factory installed option. Anything that is factory installed there, but it's on new vehicles, too. They're always telling you to change your oil or something. Yeah. I I think it was back even. Yeah. And we don't have nothing else, right, in the not that I'm aware of. So, okay.

So, I guess um I feel that before it's over, we're going to have to make a motion that all surveillance stops until we have um some sort of plan. Maybe we got to have a department meetings. Maybe we got to have a group together and then we all a committee come up with a plan to have it written into the policy book and unless nobody else has something else that's go ahead and hear that so that we uh before we end the meeting I guess

I guess I just like to hear the state's attorney's you know opinion and and just a little bit explanation on cameras and just I don't know just fill us in I guess. Yeah, sure. Uh can can you all hear me? Okay. Yep. Yes.

Okay. Um there is no uh state law or otherwise that gives any clarity or clarification on surveillance cameras on public buildings. Now there's numerous entities and agencies around the state that have a a policy on it. um they're Bismar parks and wreck uh various police departments, different cities, you know, for for public safety. But the the issue or the concern legally speaking is all surveillance cameras that are attributable or attached to, you know, public entities. Um, all of that surveillance footage is subject to open records requests. And so the concern is that it needs to be the the data and the video footage needs to be maintained at a at a central location with identified authorized users. um so that it it can be you know the data and the information collected is stored in a location that can be reviewed or footage can be pulled if there was ever an open records request for certain information. Um, I don't want to speak on behalf of the commission, but I I think that cameras are a a good thing, you know, and when used appropriately, um, you know, for for safety purposes, for response, you know, for um crime um mitigation, you know, nobody's going to deface any of public property in the county, but there there needs to be some

kind of a U discussion on, you know, where they will be installed, you know, what what types and kinds, who has access to the material that uh the the data and the footage that's collected, that type of a thing, which this just came up, you know, on Friday. It was the first I've heard of it. Um and so just did a little a little generic research and then just collection of information, you know, to be able to at least say that uh it needs to be monitored and and probably uh the data and information collected on a server of some sort as opposed to you know I we don't know enough about you know the cameras that were installed um you know where they where they came from and where the information is being stored. Um, you know, so that was the the discussion to uh probably cease that operation on those until there's a a plan or a policy about about having those and on what locations and and buildings, etc.

So, on your open request in video footage, how long would that could that request be or how long do you have to keep that camera footage or data? Um, that's a very good question. I don't I don't know.

Okay. Um, I can I can check the um the open records laws regarding it and and see if there's any guidance, but there would be, you know, I I would assume that that any policy um would would be, you know, for records retention purposes, just like say a police department or perhaps even the sheriff's department. Um, 90 days or any any number of time that's set. Um, just know that that the information is only kept for a certain amount of time, whether that's dictated by the the information technology outfit that's that's uh hosting the the data or the servers. because even you know from speaking from law enforcement side um that data if it's not downloaded and preserved is usually written over at predetermined periods maybe Dean can can speak to what the sheriff's department policy is but it's not kept forever. So yeah,

um if if certain information is not requested in a timely fashion, say 90 days, chances are it doesn't exist. Then when we added the the new cameras, that took away from the storage capability of the server. So I think it's like 90 days or less right now. Two months right now, 60 days. So uh but yeah, we've had requests that have come in. I mean, we've dealt with those from the Midora PD do to name a couple. And if something happened, can you extend that two months?

It you really can't because it's it writes over it unless there's something that we're aware of that happened or took place. But I think initially it was the capability was like six months if I remember right with just the few cameras that we have. But now that we added those, it takes down on the storage of the server. So, but I know Grant did some research and actually kind of looked, you know, what's currently out there, whatever, too, as far as a draft plan if the commission's interested in any of that. Marcia, I had a question

and and maybe just a comment for future discussion is, you know, is whatever policy the commission makes or what have you, you know, just that once that time frame is up and it's written over or there is no data to collect, there wouldn't be any open records issue in that. So, you know, depending on how long you guys want to keep it, the longer you keep it, the longer open records requests can be made on it. So,

I and I would agree with that. It's you we we would not be in a position where we're going to have to store this stuff for for years. Um unlike you know certain you know written records and things there's there's just too it would take too much data and information uh storage to store it for any extended period of time say 6 months you know given the volume of of information collected I do know just some of the requirements you have to post the facility too that it's being monitored 24/7. So if you look at the front door that comes into the courthouse, there's a sticker that's on the door saying that it is being monitored 24/7. So okay, anyone else on this uh matter? Um I don't know if we need to have a motion or not. Um,

Mr. Chairman, can I say a couple things? Sure. Um, so obviously I talked to a lot of road crew people. I talked to EMS people. Um, however this is handled, I think it needs to go forward with a nice straight even keel. I do know morale and trust has been broken between department heads and their crews whether road career EMS because of this surveillance. Um, it's also been brought to my attention the EMS ones. Not only were those professionally installed, but there's also some Ring cameras put up that have voice and stuff on it. Not sure where those are paid from or who paid for them. 2019. And who's paying the subscription?

There's no subscription. Okay. So, there's other cameras being put up and I think that all needs to be stopped. And I do know between EMS and Road Crew, you have some trust to bring back. with your people. Well, that's how my calls came in, too. It's pretty disturbing when they called. So, um, how how can you do this? How whatever. So, it it just we're going to deal with it and we're going to end it until we come up with a policy of some sort, whether there's cameras or not, Mr. Chairman.

Yes. The reason the cameras were brought up is because there's been traffic in and out of the road and bridge yards going past fuel tanks. You'll work on a Friday when the road crews not there and you'll see tracks going past the fuel tanks. You'll see tracks in the yards that you can't explain. Um, you know, right now the fuel prices are high. Last time the fuel prices were high, there was people stealing metal from the oh up on across from dad's people running around doing stuff.

It made sense to put cameras up. I don't distrust the road crew, but you have a lot of expensive property sitting outside the road and bridge buildings that should be protected by camera and probably should have been done years ago, not just in this time frame. Okay,

I agree with you 100% and I do. I just think that this spring brought forward like we're doing now should have probably happened before that happened because we should know. I always said if I find out about something that I don't know about, that's where I'm going to get agitated. And I got considerable amount of calls and I I couldn't answer. And I almost thought they were blaming me because they thought we'd get some motion at the last meeting and did it. And I'm just like I don't know nothing about it and I didn't. I just think the format of coming forward not against cameras. Not at all. I'm not against it. So

and the ones I've talked to, they're not against it for the surveillance side of it at all. It's the who can see it, who's got access to it, and not the oh, what are you doing? You just left the building or what are you doing here? That's what they're concerned about. They're not concerned about the surveillance side of it.

I'd like to see that if we move forward, however, pick a central deal to where it goes to that's, you know, whether it's neutral and all that. I think that helps out. Uh just think there's ways we can move forward with this if we want to and you know, each department head can plan something out, get back to us and however we're going to handle it. But I but I think that was a general concept of I think they were feeling like somebody was picking on them. You just got to try and we just need to bring that morale back a little bit now cuz it's tough. It is. I'll be honest with you. But we'll get through it.

And if we're going to be using it for criminal activity, all that data has to be controlled and secured and whatever. Otherwise, not going to be able to use it. So, I don't know what kind of cameras did did you buy or just cheap ones from the plan was to put the cuz the controller was right there. It was a you don't have to pay a subscription and it was just going to go on the tablets in the office. So, you review it if you seen something when you pulled in in the morning. Okay? Cuz that's one thing to consider is that if we're using it for any criminal activity, it's got to be it's got to be controlled basically. Otherwise, it's not going to be it won't have any evidentiary value at all.

Can you explain control Dean? Controlled like us for for example here we've got a server that's locked all in the basement. We're the only ones that have access to it. So basically you can go back and prove that it wasn't all tampered. So if you have like 15 people that have access to it now you in Jared's terms he'd have to have 15 people that he has to bring into court. Okay. You know that makes sense I guess. So is that something we could add to? I mean if we wish forward we add that to have this as a deal. Yep.

So we could go from buildings up there in district one or field. We might have to increase our server size.

Probably have to increase our service space. But with the transition to RTC, they have more than enough capability. They're already monitoring the schools up there. The the foundation here in town, all those currently because of the event are feeding into our office and the capacity is there, the abilities there. If they're going to be our cameras, then we need to upgrade the server space. Just have one question. If there's an issue, say something is missing or you know, say from the courthouse, something missing from here or the road shop or EMS or your guys' office, would that department head be able to make a records request to you guys to receive the data from that day or whatever it might be?

Okay. Just walk down and say, "Hey, can you review?" And ultimately, if charges, we're going to be the ones that Yep. Absolutely. But yeah, cuz you guys won't know if we're not we're not going to be looking to, you know, we're not going to be monitoring who's coming, who's not going to work. We're not going to be looking at any of that criminal type activity or if there was an incident, you know, that happened then. Yeah. I mean,

one of the things that brought it up also was you're sitting at the shop visiting with one of the guys and someone comes ripping in the yard 25 mph, flips around and tears out of there. Well, if they hit something, you're not going to know it if it's on the weekend at night time. Cameras are a good thing. Yeah. Mhm. The deterrent factor. Mhm. That too. Deterrent factor. So, but it just has to be done right. I guess that's the thing. So,

so I guess um I feel that maybe we need to maybe let the sheriff department I'm just talking and let them maybe lead this thing and and then maybe we get some I don't know if it's a committee of the department heads or just whoever what everybody give them I think we need to get started on it right away. And I think having Jared make a there's something with the commission meeting I lose my voice but have Jared make a a policy recommendation to us and then you know we can talk about the the actual procedure of it you know once the policies in place if that

I think department head should be involved I think it'd be good department but just to have a draft something to work from instead something to go by jar did you all that jur.

Yes. Yeah. And I've, like I said, I pulled some language from multiple different public entities around the state um just to compare it and look at it because there is nothing in statute. You know, it is surveillance is common in in all public places. Um, but some departments have actual policies that I've already seen now. So, we can mimic those of other law enforcement agencies or, you know, there's there's cameras, you know, that are monitored by the like the city of Dickinson Police Department, you know, the traffic cameras and all those other things. Um, so yeah, we can pull something together and modify it to make it work for the county, you know, for the department heads to review and then bring it to the commission, you know, for a a determination if that's going to be appropriate.

Okay. The the only other thing I would add um about some of these cameras, whether it be, you know, at the road department or EMS or otherwise, um just have to make sure that there are no cameras installed in any area where there is an expectation of privacy. uh whether it's, you know, obviously there's none in many bathrooms that I've heard, but uh entrances to, you know, locker rooms, dressing rooms, other other places where there's an expectation of privacy. Got to make sure that that there's none of that stuff, you know, going on. So,

okay. I don't think you need a motion until he creates something to review. It's just the direction to hold off until the policies in place. Yep. I I think we're good, too. So, um I think we'll just move forward and wait for something from you, Jared, and and maybe uh the next department meeting get the ball rolling a little bit there and then we can go from there if that everybody agrees to that. When is the next department? Thursday. So it' be April 28th. That's two weeks then. Two weeks.

Yeah. You got time in two weeks, Jared. Yeah, this week will be busy, but uh ne Yeah, I I can get that done and and have it ready to to present. Okay. or when when uh the announcement comes out, I can forward a digital copy to the department heads to start taking a look at ahead of the meeting. Okay. Okay. Anything else on this matter? Someone want to make a motion to adjurnn? Yep. Second. All in favor? I motion not meeting. Meeting is ajourned.