City Commission - Regular Meeting

The presentation, oh

I'm calling this meeting to order at 5.30. The minutes from May 6th, the members from the Legislative Committee, Mr. Mark Pettigrew and Mr. Richard Richardson from the Downtown Development vote to serve this community very militantly and they will be missed on this board, their voice and what they bring to this committee. I understand, so I do accept any resignations.

I don't have any comments, but they'll be missed.

The first item on the agenda is the amendments to the policies and procedures, specifically information about the agenda. This is something that was voted on in a couple, probably three or four meetings ago, changes to that part of the council rules. And the amendments were done in red so that we could see them, but it was just, changing when we got information. Thank you. The agenda of the manager and clerk shall prepare an agenda for each regular special meeting of the commission and its subsequent committees. Items of business may be submitted to the clerk for review by the mayor, commissioners, and city officials. After staff review, those items will be sent to the appropriate committee for discussion. The deadline for items to be submitted to the clerk's office and for all city staff to submit items to the manager's office for consideration. is the end of the day on Friday. All items shall be properly prepared on the standard template and shall contain a suggested motion for commission of consideration as well as, these are the additions, as well as any supported data in the agenda item not submitted in its entirety by Monday at noon will not be considered for the upcoming committee meeting. The manager and the clerk may make exceptions in the case of emergencies. Requests from governmental entities and authorities of city boards and commissioners shall be made through the manager's office by 12 noon at least two weeks prior to the commission meeting. The manager shall review the request and make a recommendation to the clerk to add the presentation to the appropriate committee or commission agenda. That's preparation, that's part of the agenda that was voted on in our committee, I'm sorry, in our commission meeting. That item is the distribution committee agenda package we provided to the commissioners and all committees at least 48 hours before the scheduled regular meeting or at least 12 hours before a scheduled special meeting. Commission agenda package will be provided to the commissioners by noon on Thursday prior to the regularly scheduled commission meeting. Those are the additions to that particular agenda item for preparation, I'm sorry, distribution. Amendments to the agenda at the commission meeting note as outlined in the ordinance chapter two, sections 2.7 through 18 for arbitral support. Any members of the commission may request that the agenda be amended to add an item for discussion. This shall be done only at the time of the approval of the consent calendar. The commissioners making a request shall state the reason or reasons for making the request. The commissioner shall state the proposed amendment to the agenda and is recommended to supply a resolution or other appropriate information backing the reasons for the request. That was the added information because that was not in our council rules that they needed to provide the resolution. A separate motion shall be made in the form of one move to suspend the rules to add in order to change the agenda. The motion must be seconded and supported by a two-thirds majority vote. That part was added because there was not a number added in there as to how many people can approve that. So that was added. If the motion to amend the agenda passes, the agenda item shall then be taken up immediately and must be approved by the majority vote of the commission. The commission may not amend the agenda in violation of the state statutes, charter, or city ordinances. That is what was added. And the original policies and procedures is on the other page. See if I have any comments or questions about that particular item that we voted on in the city council meeting. I think it was in April 1st or 2nd of April. Do you have any questions or comments about that?

Did we vote it on in April? No, I...

I have some comments.

What's going on now? I would like for the record that it be... that you be aware that some of this tightening of the schedule, like, for example, stuff has to be done by... Hold the button.

Some of this tightening of the schedule, like agenda has to be sent out by noon on Thursday and whatnot, from the beginning, some of it will not work in terms of some things. And I only say it as a statement of fact. I pointed out when some of this discussion started earlier that much of the stuff that goes on the agenda has to go through the manager. Every third Thursday, I go from home to the airport board to start airport board meeting at 930. I leave there and go directly to the Joint Sewage Board for their meeting that starts at 11. I often don't even get to City Hall until 1, 115, 130. got no opportunity to do anything with anything because the night before was Wednesday and we're here to whatever time. So, you know, I just want to mention that. I think and understand that perhaps some of our members might not be cognizant of what the mechanics of what we're dealing with is because we don't have the money to have the depth of management in a number of these areas I have to fill in and with all of these things that I have going on that's just like today I've had meetings over most of the entire day. I got a break after the last meeting about an hour ago to go over final preparations for this. I get emails that I'll be catching up on the weekend because I can't keep up with them. Same thing, phone calls I got to return. I've got an employee that's out with a serious illness, and I'm having to do all of that stuff too now. So I'm doing whatever I have to do to make it work. I'll comply with this to the absolute best of my ability, but I do want people to understand that there's a built-in problem with this to start with.

I'm not 100% sure what the point of this coming back to this committee is because it seems like it's the same thing that we had already presented unless was there a change that I missed. So I'm not understanding what the purpose of that is. But I will say, Mr. Little, I feel like you have expressed that concern in one of the other times we've discussed the same thing. And I would just say yield to the part where it says the manager and city clerk may make exceptions in case of emergency. I mean, that's the only suggestion I have is that If it's an emergency, it's an emergency, because I'm not understanding why we're bringing the same thing back and forth, back and forth. Maybe I'm missing something, which I'm willing to admit that, but I don't understand what the point of it being here is when it's the same exact thing that we've already went over, and there's no new or updates to it unless, again, I'm missing something. Do you know what my opinion is? So, it's in the same exact form.

So, what's that?

At the last commissioner meeting, I think that they just said that they didn't agree with some of the stuff that had been on there, but nothing really was changed besides adding what Commissioner Fields wanted to do. So then everybody, they just agreed to push it back to legislative to be looked over again. But it's still the exact same.

I have some questions about new language. When I see new language, and I'm glad they put it in red because it brings it to my attention. But new language and items of business may be submitted to the clerk for review by the mayor, commissioners, and city official. Can you tell me how that will be done? especially with the commissioners. That's my job, so I want to know how. And and and what? When, how, when and however this is going to happen?

And it sounds like because the word may isn't in there, it asks for it.

I'm sure that's what that means.

It doesn't mean, it don't say shall, it says may be submitted to for review. So if you wanted to, if you wanted to review the agenda, we get the agenda when we get it. So if you had questions about it. So it says the items of business may be submitted to the clerk for review by the mayor. Okay. Wow.

No, I'm understanding what Commissioner Henning is saying. And so I think that kind of answered my question that the process that we're going through now is the process they're speaking of in that line of, OK. So we didn't vote on the 2 thirds. last time?

I was under the impression that that was just the rule.

It wasn't in our council code, so that was an addition. That's why she added it. Because if you read the original, it's not in there.

AND THE IMPRESSION THAT THE CLERK WAS JUST SAYING THAT IT HAD BEEN MISSED, AND SO IT SHOULD HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THERE. SO SHE JUST CORRECTED. SO HE WAS CORRECTING ONE OR CHANGING ONE THING. SHE MADE THE CORRECTION. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

NOW, WHEN WE COME BACK IN AND THE STATE LEFT, THEY LEFT US WITH A LOT OF POLICIES AND A LOT OF THINGS. we personally had a hard time getting anything on the agenda at that time and uh... so the procedure of suspending the rules came out of desperation trying to get something done by the commission you were there so uh... i don't want to make it hard on us by saying that we have to have documentation because if you know the first time that we submit suspended the rules all we had was what we wanted we suspended the rules and said what we wanted and and voted on it and it that's the way it happened but this one gives a little bit more things that we have to do. And it wasn't necessary when we did the first suspending the rules. Okay, recommended. I guess I can't put no action to that unless somebody tells somebody to do something. Okay. My other question, and this is on policies and procedures altogether. when the state came in, the first thing they did was ask the residents to change the government to a meritorio-run government. And the citizens didn't do it. So it didn't pass. But then we look at all of these policies and procedures that they changed, and we wonder sometimes why it's dysfunctional Why we can't seem to get our group together and do anything for the people, it's because of these policies and procedures that have never been looked at. No, I won't say looked at because we did change one policy and procedures right after 13 or 14. And that was just to say co-chair and vice-chair. And that's all we got out of it for three or four years was changing it from a vice-chair to a co-chair and getting people to understand what the difference was. So now there's still some more things on the policies and procedures that we need to look at. And I would like for you to put it back on your agenda for us to dig deeper into our policies and procedures.

Our recommendation to city clerk at the last meeting, because we won't tackle the whole thing at one meeting. We'll do one policy at a time to actually look at it like we're doing with this agenda. So that works best versus putting all of those policies on there and looking at them. So if there's one in particular that you would like to look at next time, we'll add that, and then we'll just keep looking at them that way versus adding all of those policies at one time.

So will it go in line with the policies, policy one?

Two meetings ago, I want to say we had, what items was on the agenda dealing with the policies and procedures? We did, I don't have it in front of me. Council rules. Council rules. And there were changes made to it and nobody looked at it. So to me, it was a waste of my time and a waste of our time and the people that were here.

And just my comment, I know you're looking for that, but regarding this particular issue, so we've already seen this in legislative. You've already pushed it to the full commission. We know Mr. Little's comments about the reality of it happening. I'm just not clear because this is the same thing. Nothing has changed. So in theory, you could push this through again and we can get to the next commission meeting. What are they going to do, bring it back to us? I think what should have occurred is the people who had major issues should have provided comments specifically on what the issues were. And then when we got to this meeting, we could have reviewed them. But to look at the same piece of paper that we looked at it, pushed it through, now looking at it again, I mean, this is not logical. Because if you push it through, then on a Monday meeting, we could have that same conversation, right?

If I could just share my recollection, and you'll correct me if I'm wrong, is that when this came up at the commission meeting, Commissioner Clark Griffin raised an objection because she said the only change that had been asked for that she was aware of was one that Commissioner Fields made about the change for stuff being done by Thursday, and she was saying all the rest of it. She didn't understand why it was there. That's what I recall, and I may be in error.

Just to add to what Mr. Little was saying, that's correct, but if you look at the original versus the new, you'll see that that was a change, and then also just the correction Tiffany made with two-thirds. There was no other changes, unless I'm just not reading it right. But if you compare it, you'll see the fact. Maybe it's the coloring of the ink. Maybe that's the confusion.

Who is focusing on?

So what if we just say, use what Warren said, Commissioner Warren said, if there's questions about it, then maybe just have people do notes on it, and then we can know exactly what's not being understood.

IS IT POSSIBLE TO DO THAT BEFORE IT GETS PUSHED TO THE FULL COMMISSION? I'M JUST THINKING THAT IF IT GOT PUSHED BEFORE AND NO ONE WANTED TO VOTE ON IT, COULDN'T THAT REPEAT ITSELF?

I'LL EMAIL THIS OUT TO ALL THE COMMISSIONERS. with a note just saying that, you know, this was at legislative last night and we just want to know what issues that you're having with it and what would you like to, you know, discuss about it. You know, what section do you want to discuss and what is the discussion about? I'll email that out to everybody and then maybe we can get some answers before the next meeting.

But we once you get the answers, is it possible then for it to come back to legislative to discuss that? We could do that. I mean, that's what I'm asking. Yes. I don't want to just need whatever everybody else. So, yeah, we can do that. But the benefit of that is we could discuss it. I mean, do you have a comment, Commissioner Henry?

No, I'm pleased. I think that's a good idea. We need to do that.

So I'll send that email out and then I'll let them know that we need their, what their part of the discussion is so that we can bring it back to legislative and have a discussion about it.

Mr. Little, if you want to bring up your point again next time.

Most certainly. Because if it's not going to work, we need to know that it's not going to work and why. So...

tried to explain that but didn't seem like anybody was listening because it's not, I mean, when you are having to function as the Director of Public Works, the HR Director, the Community Development Director, the city manager, and anybody else that's missing, you've got to step up. You don't own your schedule. You're moving to deal with whatever the city needs most. And it doesn't lend itself to, and I mean, I've worked in normal places where you've got all these folks and the manager just says, take care of this, do this, get me a report back by this, and you know, you can do that with schedules, but that's

The next item on the agenda is a resolution to approve transfer of property for bus and outdoor apartments to the Benton Harbor Housing Commission. So I was reading this information. So they didn't own that property?

They had to... The land that both Harbor Towers, which you transferred some month or so ago, and the Atlanta bus was owned by the city and was not owned by the Housing Commission. And in order to implement this RAD provision, they are saying they have to own it. This has gone through some recent discussion between Peter Lazicki, the attorney for the Housing Commission's consultants, and Sarah, our attorney, and this is what was forwarded.

Ms. Alou, do you know, so under financial impact, the city will receive $50,000 a year, but it says in lieu of property taxes, do we know approximately what those would have been? I mean, is this higher, I guess is what I'm asking? It's lower? Okay. Okay.

I believe the point is, though, that housing commissions traditionally do not pay property taxes at all. This is not dissimilar to what we have with Project T. Are there any more questions about this particular item?

Are there any questions or comments about this item? So are they looking to start that renovation?

I believe so. They're indicating that if all of this is finalized this month that they would be able to conclude their business with HUD and start drawing money to do the things that...

So they don't understand that they're going to have another board to handle these projects

They're setting up an LLC underneath the Housing Commission that will take ownership of and carry out this development. That mechanism, I understand, is necessary in order to facilitate a portion of this project being sold to a private developer FOR THEIR PARTICIPATION IN THIS FOR THE 15-YEAR PERIOD THAT THE TAX CREDITS ARE ISSUED THAT THE PRIVATE DEVELOPER TAKES ADVANTAGE OF.

15.

15 YEARS. THAT'S TYPICALLY WHAT THEY ARE. SIMILAR TO WHAT WAS DONE WITH FIDELITY BUILDING.

SO THEY WILL JUST BE

the board for this project or is it going to be for the total housing commission will still exist and would be overseeing the entire thing but underneath they'll have this LLC referred to I believe the name of it is just a moment I'll tell you exactly um It's called Benton Harbor.

Yeah, sometimes I'll see, and then they'll also have another entity that will have a housing corporation that will do some things, and then there's another one that will be involved. That's basically how this would be all set up.

affordable housing solutions, limited dividend housing corporation, LLC.

You know, when I hear people looking out for our most vulnerable and bus avenue and harper towers is one of our most vulnerable group of uh residents and if there is no nothing that's really going to be accountable or hold their feet to the fire to do the right thing in this society the right thing is whatever they do So I just want to make sure that our residents in these two facilities are protected. They're just not given away willy-nilly to do whatever they want to do to them. Because I've seen some horrible things that came out of the vineyard project, and that came from our own housing commission and Cornerstone. So I've seen some horrible stuff that happened, and I don't want to see those kind of things happen again. So that's what I got to say about it. And if I'm going to ask maybe legal or somebody to really make me feel comfortable that this LLC and whoever else they're going to work with are going to treat my people right.

It's my understanding that this will have a board, the LLC, of five people, two of which would be members of the existing housing commission, and the other three would be appointed otherwise. And I suspect one would probably be representing the private investor that would be involved in it.

That's pretty good. Three to two. That's a winning formula. Whoever got the three. So, that's shaky. Thank you for giving me that, but that doesn't automatically make me feel shaky. You don't have the top boat.

You said two housing commission, right? Then two appointed and only one investor, right? Two appointed.

And I'm not totally sure about the makeup of the three, but I am almost certain that because the whole purpose is to get the private investor involved, they're going to have at least one seat. But I'm not totally sure about how the other two are appointed.

Well, maybe we can get that answer before we have to make a decision. Maybe we can get an answer to that before we have to make a decision.

So, Mr. Little, would you be able to find out the two appointed? Is that like a Benson Harbor resident? Could it be a Benson Harbor resident or if a commissioner wanted or whoever? Yeah, for those two appointed. Okay.

I also think this project is important.

People that live in those apartments need updated facilities. Those little World War I or World War II boxes that they live in need to be updated. And I remember my mother living in that apartment before it became like it was, and it still was not the best solution for housing. So I think the people there deserve new housing. And I think we need to do what we can to help new housing for low-income people succeed.

No, that's not new housing.

No, but I'm saying the rehabilitation of those particular units because they are old.

They do the same thing in Vineyard Project. They've been thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars in it, and everybody got new cabinets and new dishes and this and that. It didn't last three years. Do you know how old the Bus Avenue project is?

I remember the overpass over the top of it. You could walk from, yes, you could walk right across the top.

So, yes, I do remember.

I was young, but I remember.

Yeah, it's an old project. They're tiny. They've been worn out.

They used to have three doors, but now they have two. They got two.

Did they? Oh, well, see, sometimes improvement is not the best. So I just want somebody to be there to watch. And it's saying that it's going to report back to the council. And that's definitely what we need. Because a lot of stuff hasn't been coming back to us. And when we get slapped with it, we're like, wow. So I agree.

So far. Make a recommendation to move it forward for the 15th meeting. The resolution, the third item on the agenda is a resolution improving the tax exemption ordinance for payment in lieu of taxes for Harbor Towers and the Bus Project apartment. And I think this is still related to the LIHTC project, too. So, yeah. Okay.

Thank you. Thank you.

it I'm sorry but would be sped in a max pick wasn't is what percent but at basically what it would be. It's projected that over the 15 years that could amount to $750,000 being paid to the city over the 50-year period.

General fund?

Yes, over the 15-year period, just like taxes. We get a pilot also on Project T and other projects like this.

Any questions about this particular item? Mr. Isom? Mr. Isom, do you have any questions about this?

After the 15 years, what happened? It goes back. 15 years.

Housing Commission will have a first right over refusal to purchase the property I believe that right or refusal will last for 45 days, I think And during that period if the Housing Commission elects to purchase it I They get it. If they don't, then it can be to somebody else. We just experienced this with Fidelity Building. Their 15-year period ran out last year. They made the offer to us to purchase it, and we neither had the money nor did we really feel to get into that role with them, and so it was sold to the people that it was sold to.

I do have one question about this project. I've been getting a lot of people asking me, so how are they going to, to the chair, how are they going to do moving people out or just move everybody out? One floor at a time or even a bus project, how are they going to do that?

I honestly don't know the answer to that. I would suspect that the way normally these are done, probably a building or whatever time they would get them resituated and get that done or whatever. I'm not certain. Thank you.

I don't know if it's relevant, but I do know the high-rise over in St. Joe, when they renovated that, they moved the residents to the over in Benton Township by Walmart. They have like an extended stay. So I don't know if they're doing that, but I know that's an option.

I don't know. They was renovating, I think it was Burien Homes, and they were doing one building at a time. They didn't do them all. The people, I'm not sure. If they moved them into another apartment until they finished, I'm not sure.

Well, Vineyard, their first process was to eliminate residents. if they were late in payment or doing whatever it is that they were doing. That was the first process. When that happened, then they went to the ones that was there, and they got them hotel facilities. You know, history will repeat itself if we don't stop it. You know, when I look at that grandmother, that she got evicted for $87 at the Vineyard Project. She got evicted. So we have to be real cognizant of what's going on with our people. They're not brick and mortar. They're humans. And we need to make sure that we do for them, make sure that they're not being abused. And the Housing Commission did that. And I'm afraid if they do the same thing with Bus Avenue or this place over here. So it's going to be really important to the city manager that he reports back to the council. WHAT'S GOING ON. AND BELIEVE ME, THE PEOPLE KNOW TO CALL SOMEBODY NOW. SO WHEN YOU HEAR THEM CALLING AND STARTING TO COMPLAIN, THEY GOT THINGS TO COMPLAIN ABOUT. THEN WE SHOULD BE LISTENING.

I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND. AND THE HOUSING COMMISSION all of this is accountable to the help but is up closing yep the art And that relationship has to be back and forth on a continuous basis to make sure that they are being treated.

Clerk, I think it was three years ago where each board that reported to the commission came in and would give a quarterly report. Could you make notes that that needs to continue to happen? They need to do a quarterly report so we know what's happening with the Housing Commission, the Dollar Eye used to do that. They would come in and they would give a report about what's happening, any updates, and then it stopped for whatever reason. I don't know.

Anything to share information is a good thing.

And just as a side comment, as I've said a number of times and I've said in this instance, this project is subject to Section 3. And here's a real opportunity for that to have some impact because it's a number of the kinds of jobs that residents and people could PARTICIPATE IN. BUT THE ONLY WAY THAT HAPPENS IS IF THE PRESSURE IS THERE TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S COMPLIANCE.

I'VE HAD THAT CONVERSATION, BUT I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY MOVEMENT CONCERNING SECTION 3.

THEY'RE NOT YET EMPLOYING PEOPLE.

THEY'RE NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT IT NOW. THAT'S PART OF THE PLAN IS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

But it is written into the documents and so forth.

And could you, for them to speak to that, those specific things, resident complaints about how the process for moving people in and out of the facility, Section 3? Thank you.

And I might add, I believe these documents require two readings, so this will be the first one coming up on the 15th, and it will give time for these concerns that you're asking to get answers.

Thank you. TO APPROVE THE ORDINANCE TO ADMIT CITY CODE REGARDING BENTON HARBOR HOUSING COMMISSION. STILL IN LINE WITH WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT?

THIS PARTICULAR ITEM, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IS SIMPLY TO, FOR THE CITY COMMISSION TO AMEND IN ITS CODE THAT The Housing Commission has a right to do all those things specified in state law for it. That's basically what it's saying. Thank you.

The Housing Commission shall have all the powers and duties vested or permitted to be vested in the Housing Commission by Public Act Number 18 of the Extra Session 1933. As of hereafter amended, any laws hereunto and hereafter enacted which are supplemental Thereunto, it being the intention of this article to invest in the housing commission all powers and duties permitted by law, including but not limited to the following, the Benton Harbor Housing Commission is authorized to act as a follower for the purposes of issuing of bonds or notes in accordance with the provision of Act 18. All deeds, mortgages, contracts, leases, purchases, and other agreements regarding real property, including the briefings to acquire or dispose of the real property, shall be approved and executed in the name of the Ben Harmon House of Representatives. I move to add the ordinance. I move the ordinance to take effect immediately upon its passage. I move the ordinance to apply by law. So this is the city updating its ordinance regarding the housing commission. Any questions in regards to that particular ordinance?

No, it's kind of straightforward. Are there any public comments? Are there any public comments? You want us out of here, you turn that air conditioner on.