City Council - Regular Meeting

I think the Walton's probably hard to get it here. Yeah, I I suspect so it was timely park which is a little different because then people from out of town, you know, they had buses taking them back and forth. Yeah. Yeah. I went down I went down on Saturday and had a good uh good visit down there. I was tempted to go Well, I had some going on Saturday morning, but was tempted to go to that very last meeting, you know, something up, but I didn't. six o'clock. Okay.

Okay. Uh we'll call the meeting to order. This is the work session for Bella Vista City Council for May 18, 2026. And the first item is review of the minutes. I don't know if anyone saw anything on there that they thought needed adjusting. Okay. Uh secondly, under unfinished business, we have the ordinance prohibiting camping and veh vehicle habitation on certain public property, providing definitions, establishing enforcement procedures, providing exemptions, providing penalties, and for other purposes. And that's going to be on third reading this month. I don't know if anybody we've discussed this a little bit in the past. I don't know if anybody has anything to add or Okay, guess we'll move along. Next one is an ordinance requiring the Bella Vista Advertising and Promotion Commission to publish financial statements on its official website and for other purposes. Uh this is also going to be on third reading. any discussion about this? I just thought I would mention I did talk to Brandon Kelly uh about it. One of the reasons was I thought it might be a three to three vote and I'd have to decide how to vote and uh he doesn't have any problem with it. In fact, some of the recent stuff will be published before we vote. Anyway, I just thought that was a point of interest. Anna,

um I also spoke with Brandon a few times and you know, my first meeting on the AM will be this week and so one of the things that I spoke to him about adding to the agenda for us to vote on um is actually posting the financials along with um the quarterly minutes from the meetings and just doing it quarterly in as long as we're putting the minutes just adding the financials to it. So, I think that can solve um what we're all looking for. Um so, so really, you know, it's up obviously to you, Mr. Harp. You know, we can still vote on this one, but um it's likely going to be voted on before the meeting next week, and so we'll probably already have that in place.

Okay. Uh Travis, hey, thanks for having those conversations with uh Mr. Kelly over at the AMP. I appreciate that. Uh, one thing just to to to mention uh, historically you may or may not be aware of is a previous council member uh, approached to AM about the minutes and um, they agreed outside of an ordinance to publish and keep their minutes posted and they they didn't do so. And so that's why uh, I would feel more comfortable moving forward with the ordinance, especially if they're in agreeance to doing it anyways, then you know it seems like there's there's a there's no harm in in approving this. Uh Wendy,

I also talked to Brandon as well regarding this and um with a very similar vein of asking for the financials to be voted on by the AMP commission to be rolled into the fin uh financial behive document the financials and minutes after our meeting. So again, I think after our meeting on the 21st, I am optimistic that the AMP commission will approve this and that it'll actually not have a need to have a separate ordinance regarding financials. Okay. Um I think we'll move along then to the next item which is uh an ordinance amending section 1643 active permit maximum of the code of ordinances. the city of Bella Vista to increase the maximum number of short-term rental permits from 600 to 687 and for other purposes. You know, previously we had had this is a discussion item and uh I think in the packet there's a mathematical calculation. Now we get to the 6 87 the theory is sticking with the 4% and uh I will mention one thing. I had several after our earlier meeting I had several emails from citizens that were concerned about the idea of people being kicked off for not using their STR and the kind of example I you know that that topic was just discussed in a broadbased way but they were saying things like well sometimes I like to rent it out for three months and not do it for three months. I don't know what other people were thinking but I was thinking like someone not rent it out at all for an entire year. I mean it has to be really dormant. I was thinking more along those kind of lines and or maybe

maybe they only ran out one time in the entire you know some incredibly small amount but um you know I don't have a proposal to take any action on that at this time. The only proposal is this one to change the 687. I noticed in the latest stats uh you know Sarah Costosta sends us out a list every week and uh last Friday we were at 597 which is the highest it's ever been. So we're certainly flirting with the max but the the rationale isn't that we're getting to the max. The rationale is, you know, because there's so many more houses than there were and our original thinking was 4%. So maybe we should change it because of that. I don't know if anybody else has thoughts about it. Okay. Uh so that'll be on for first reading this uh this week coming up. Next one's a resolution amending the 2026 city budget in an amount of 72,400 to reappropriate funding for delayed 2025 capital projects. I think Taylor had spoken about this at a as a discussion item earlier and uh Taylor did you want to review that a little bit to So yeah, nothing has changed since the work session from last month. Um, essentially the discussion was if there was support to reassign the unspent amount from last year's budget to this year's budget because of the delay in production and delivery, I couldn't actually use that money until 2026. So 2025's projects um are eating up this year's capital um budget for me. But

that was that was with the support of you all. Um if you wanted projects to continue this year. If not, we can wait till next year. Um but due to the conversation held, it sounded like we were generally supportive of continuing the projects for this year. So that's why the resolution's on here as a formal item of this meeting. Could you review those projects for us, please? It's just the two. Um so we had traffic cabinets that had to be spent this year and then the way finding signs for this year. That's the only thing. Those are the only two. Yeah, I think they added up to to the 72,400. Right. Correct. Yeah.

So, wayfinding signage is about 40,000 just right under and then the traffic cabinets that bill ended up being right at 32,400. So, I'm just asking for the amount. Talking about signals, I think uh do we have anything to say about the signal at Mercy Way and 71 in regards to how it functions? Do you mean like the timing or?

Uh, actually I've I've been there a number of times and when traffic is light, you still have a slow ability to turn left southbound to go on to Mercy Way. And I'm would suggest that you ask the DOT to go from the green light to a flashing red light, meaning they have to stop, not just caution, but have to stop if that would allow them to turn left if there's no traffic coming. And a lot of times there's a line of cars wanting to go east on Mercy Way that can't go, but there's no traffic coming from the south. So you can adjust those things many ways and that would be one way to handle handle the off times when traffic is lighter but make everyone stop to make it a safe intersection.

So I have two responses to that. One we had a request like that similarly actually Mr. Harp asked me to look into that last year the year before um and DOT said no they would not allow that due to the site distance that's allowed at that um that corral area on the northbound lane um in that area. there's not enough sight distance for the people turning left on a Mercy Way because of the sight distance on the oncoming northbound traffic on 71. So, they said no, but we did. My second response is we actually just completed a Mercy um entire 71 timing study. And so, they've all been adjusted to um the current daily trips that we have in there. So, those are actually up to date as of last month. Um, and current timing signals for the current traffic, but all of the 71 intersections are experiencing right now except for McNell. U McN is technically over capacity with the amount of daily trips that we're having. But it's it's at the best case scenario that we can get it with with the current um signal that's there.

So, the answer would be no that we can't make that adjustment on Yeah, I already asked last year and DOT said no. There's not enough sight distance for the oncoming traffic going north. Yeah, I remember when they first did that, Jim Waznjak complained about it and they shut him down right away also. That was when it first happened. Yeah. And he was the So, it's a sight distance issue that they say for that speed through there. Yep. It's because of the oncoming turn lane. That's what the sight distance is problematic because of the on oncoming traffic turn lane, the northbound traffic. If there's a turn, if there's a left turner both ways, it cuts down. That's I'm only talking about left turn going south.

Yeah. You can't see the oncoming traffic if there's people in the left turn lane. That's Arkansas Department of Transportation. North hurts your uh the amount of feet you have vision wise. That's why they won't do it. Okay. So, but there's not very many. Well, there will be more cars. But I know what you mean. Once while you're there and there's nobody around, you think I'm there a lot and I sit there and wait and wait and wait and there's nobody coming the other way. I've seen people go through it. I have not.

Okay. Well, I think we're all set on that. Thank you, Taylor. Next one is a resolution approving the mayor's appointment of Nathan Force to planning commission position three for an unexpired term ending March 1, 2029 created by the resignation of uh Jack Wagman and Nathan is here. So appreciate your coming. And uh we had uh I think three applications for this and and he had a really strong background. Okay. Next one is a resolution authorizing the mayor and city clerk to enter into a three-year lease contract with Stronghold Data LLC an amount not to exceed 62,000 18,613 per year per tips USA cooperative pro procurement agreement for the lease of Dell computers and associated equipment and John Mo's here to explain it.

Good evening. Um yeah, this is routine business at this point. We've been doing a lease like this for approximately eight years now. So every year we have computers that are three years old and have to be refreshed. Um and also we have computers that are five years old that we purchased that are some of those are going to be replaced with this lease as well. So, u that's the intent basically is just to uh you know refresh the old computers.

Uh Travis, I'm sure you've done your due diligence on this, but just for peace of mind, how much are we saving by leasing them versus if we own them? Well, I think that um you can save quite a bit in terms of u frustration and headache and things like that because um you know most people who have a computer that ages uh it increases the amount of help desk time we spend on it, the amount of frustration we get the complaints, oh my computer's awful slow, when am I going to get a new one? When am I going to get a new one? Um and also in terms of recycling because you know when a lease is expired we return the computers to Dell and they're properly disposed of and things like that where if we purchase the computer then we have to figure out you know do we send to the recycler do we try to sell them get some sort of salvage value out of them all that kind of stuff. So, um, you know, the upfront dollar cost doesn't look like much, but, uh, but I think you do save in terms of worry and headache and, uh, just peace of mind.

Any other questions? Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. Thank you. Then we have uh, mayor, could I ask we Yes. Uh for consent agenda, is there any desire of those E, F, and G to to either put those on consent or not put any of those on consent? We just haven't addressed it. Any thoughts about that? E, F, and G. I'm good with F certainly. Okay.

Okay. So, EF NG all we we we've ex I'm not I'm not trying to beat a dead horse or anything, but we we have an appointment for a commission there and there's been some talk about not wanting to put those on consent in the past and so yeah, that's true. We left those off consent so that the person would get the uh recognition. Yeah. So, maybe just do ENG then. Okay. Thanks for bringing that up.

Sorry. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Uh, then we had some discussion items. First one is continuing education training session for new and returning elected officials and that's council member Hughes.

Yeah, thank you so much. Just knowing that other cities in our area, I know Fagville requires their new newly elected members of council, mayor, clerk to attend a training session, which we we had offered ones, which is very nice, but having required one, I think, will really help get people in place in those new spots. But also on top of that, I know that laws change, things change, and having a refresher maybe, I don't know what y'all think of it, every two years where the entire council, mayor, clerk, maybe attached to a work session or another meeting instead of having to be a special meeting, could just have some continuing education about decorum, about FOYA, about things not to do, things that are best practice. Are there any thoughts on this as a general

I think Taylor didn't didn't Taylor I think you offered there was some kind of training class that we that was available a couple years ago at least I think the planning commission does it is it year correct yeah we've done kind of you and I sat together when we both got elected at the same time with Jason and for the newly elected Cassie came in Taylor came and and they kind of gives a little rundown as before we were actually in office. But I think maybe having refreshers for all of us because do things do change at the state level all the time that impact us and I want to make sure we are doing our best job to be on top of it.

Shay,

um I like that idea. I think every other year sounds good. I think annually might might be a lot. Would um does the municipal league offer something like that or how would we So I reached out to them. They offer trainings online that you can attend. If you happen to attend one of the AML conferences, they have all those beautiful um out um breakout sessions that you can attend. That's if you're able to attend or if you on your own go and sign up for these things. I did ask if they would ever like do a regional like, hey, come up in the NWA region and maybe we could all attend one together if They're busy.

They're busy folks. Travis, sorry. Yeah. I just don't like the mandatory part because if you if you mandate training and someone doesn't attend, then what's is it punitive in action? So, I I I think it's a phenomenal idea to offer training, but to make it mandatory is I don't I'm not sure that's something that I could support right this second. I I believe the U league offers every other year after the election cycle uh training classes at the January conference.

They do, but you have to be able to attend. And so if we have people on council who can't attend whatever reason, work, family, weather, family sickness, this is g opportunity that we could all have a little learning and education refresh because I think we all desperately need it. just awesome.

So, I guess what we do now, uh, Jason, you kind of got together with the new counselors and told them about FOYA and a few other things. What I've done the last couple of cycles uh when we had new members elected before they took office in that December after we found out the winners uh we invited them all to come invitation and uh to I would give them and you all were there you know exactly what we talked about just how the agenda works how the basics of FOI how to be careful with your email um what all we can do for you the um just some basics on process and procedure of the council, those sorts of things and and answer and to answer questions because there's are questions obviously and then I know that um Taylor would present a zoning and planningformational session about all that and and answer questions and about what they do and then really I guess anybody else at the city could also come in and and talk. I don't remember. Um, C decay I think Cassie talked a little bit about how the communication part worked and all that. So, it's always kind of been a Q&A and and uh sort of a thing just but I also wanted all of you to know, you know, if you have something you want to propose, you know, you shouldn't have to wait 90 days to kind of get a feel for things. You you should know immediately how to do something if you want to do it. You've been elected. So, u we started doing that a couple of cycles ago and u I I think it was helpful. I you know, but whether we need to do it on a continuing basis. Uh I think probably the staff could could do that if that's something the council wanted to do. If you're already elected to office and we have multiple members of council, that's going to have to be a public session rather than a meeting in the office. So, the benefit or if you want to call it that or the we could have a a very small

meeting with just a small group. It doesn't have to be open to the public. uh just so that we can just be a little more informal, answer questions and and uh you can get together and talk a little bit before you take office because obviously you know there are rules about that too. So which we talk about during that training. So um Wanda did you did you you and I tal when you took your position I think we met maybe I I don't recall. And there are clerk issues as well for new new council people. Um I would see there would be value in the returning council people meeting the new newly elected. There's just a lot of different things

important. So that's that's what we've done in the past. But so if we were going to do something, are you talking a resolution or a policy or what's Well, it's not my suggestion. It's it's Miss Hughes's suggestion, but I if you're going to do something, you could adopt an ordinance that would require it.

And uh understanding Mr. uh Harp's uh statement, it's an ordinance. If you don't follow the ordinance, it's an ordinance violation. So there would be a compulsion to follow it. uh you could have passed a resolution and and say that they'll be offered and suggesting that members attend but not requiring it. You could there's really no limit to how you want if if you want to do it or how you want to do it. It's just up to you. Okay. Okay. The next uh discussion item is about bike park traffic and that was council member Hart.

Yeah. Thanks, Mayor. Uh, I just had one person come up to me and and question me about the city's plans for the increased traffic in the bike park. And I I told him I honestly didn't know if there was anything happening behind the scenes in preparation for it. Uh, one of the things that I was able to tell him that I knew is that, you know, 71's a state highway. Um, so we'd be limited, I would think. But he said um he's noticing a lot of people pulling off to the side on Ulden Drive just to like look and watch and observe and he's concerned. I guess he travels that road often. I didn't know what to tell him and I didn't know if we have any plans in place or if anybody has any ideas or suggestions on because I think it is going to potentially be problematic. And anyways, I just didn't know what to tell him. So I I told him I'd find out.

Yeah. Uh Tim Cook, I wonder if you would want to address this. Um as far as the bike park went, you know, they had their soft opening this last weekend. They actually uh provided vendor pay for us to work the light with that. Uh that was for all three days along with the bike race that we had. um we never had to manually operate the intersection at any time during that. So we worked it Friday, Saturday and then they uh cancelled our Sunday. So the volume of traffic that we saw into the bike park was uh easily managed by the traffic light and its own operation. And now I know we have a very lot larger race this coming weekend. We'll see a larger influx, but we're going to also be there again. So, we'll be able to report back to you about what we see and what it occurs. As far as Old Ham, um I hadn't had any reports about people pulling over causing any traffic hazards, but we can address that with the laws that we already have on the books about people stopping and standing in the roadway. Um if it becomes a more major problem, if we do see statistics like that, you know, we can move with some where we've done it in other places. some no parking signs also where that can also add us another statute in for addressment on it. So, um that's the all I see right now is that the traffic that we're seeing out of the bike park again is just open, but I can report what we how we uh handled this weekend. We didn't have to interact with it at all. Again, we'll see a lot larger influx. We'll have 18 of our officers out just working spots for the bike race, not counting the ones working the intersection of Mercy. So,

uh, Craig, you say 18 officers are going to be working that event. Yes. Singularly, that one event, 18 officers committed to that.

Uh, yes, this event. And it'll be vendor pay also. And Because this is a concern that I had a year ago. I've been beating this drum. I was the only one that showed up to the planning commission meeting when the planning commission was talking about this. And that was my concern at that time was traffic. And ironically, there was five kids lined up today when I was coming home from work lined up to cross two old across five lanes of traffic. I mean, I have been so concerned about the traffic and then because we're going to have a circus six months out of the year, you know, every single weekend's going to be a this or a that. And my concern is that everything's funneled down into that one intersection and then you're going to have people trying to cross the road at Dairy Queen or just just jumping across five lanes of traffic. I don't know how we're going to do that. And that was my concern then. And that's what the question that I had to Blue Crane, all of those was I mean they they've got a an over a walkover on 8th Street in Bentonville. They're building a giant oval out there in Bentonville also. So I know they can construct something to put the the bike traffic either over or under. And nobody wanted to talk about it. So here we are. And I guess we're just going to find out, you know, the hard way. You know, I don't know if it's going to be fatality, wrecks, you know, whatever it's going to take, but 71 is going to be I think it's going to be a nightmare. I mean, I I hope I'm wrong, but I don't know how we're going to every single weekend if there's an event and we're going to have the one light, you know, in the middle right smack dab in the middle of town that's going to be

manually operated. I just don't know what that traffic is going to look like. I don't know how I don't know how the police have anticipated the influx. I was asking for a realistic traffic study at that time, too, because I don't think, you know, you've got people that have day passes to this bike park. It's a 240 vehicle park or parking lot. What if you have 100 people with a day pass? Where are those other 120 cars going to go or 140 cars going to go or 100 cars that are waiting for a parking place? We're gonna have a problem. I mean, that that's my concerns. And I'm not I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong or anything like that, but that's I have been really concerned about this. And I've had multiple calls, you know, people asking, you know, how we're going to handle, you know, people coming down old, you know, how are we going to handle novice riders, you know, children, they're going to be riding on our streets. How are we going to navigate that? So, there's a lot of concerns, you know, getting into this whole thing. Um, and I just I don't I I think we kind of walked oursel into a corner on this whole thing. I I hope we're wrong, but the infra infrastructure was not there to begin with. And that's what I was trying to get in place some thing to get access. And so I I just don't know how we're going to take everything through one one signal light without having traffic backed up to, you know, Rearen or whatever. And again, the concern that I had was anybody traveling northbound, if we have an ambulance and we've got a pile of cars waiting to turn left and everything's backed up, I don't know how you're going to have emergency services coming down because you can't go on the right side because the pylons can't go in the middle because there's

an island. So, these are all things that I've asked and nobody wanted to talk about. So, we'll see how it goes. Well, to clarify on the 18 officers, I think a lot of those are at different crossings and yeah, right now there's races that leave out of Bentonville and we have all kinds of officers working at those cross. I I don't have a problem with those. I mean, it's I think we're talking about two different things. Yeah.

So, I mean, with the bike park, um I think initially what we saw was we didn't have really a traffic issue on that. Now the major races that we have right now we have four during a year. This will be the largest essentially race that we have and that's what I was mentioning that this coming weekend um we're going to have uh 18 officers out on Friday, 18 officers out on Saturday and then it'll be scaled back to five on Sunday to support that race. And one thing you said Tim, vendor pay, they are paying for those officers to work but taxpayers are not. Right. That's exactly right. in the same as as working that intersection and it's two different vendors that we're dealing with.

Chief, is that uh pay adopted by ordinance and how old is that? I would imagine that the police charge like the fire department charges a hourly rate or

it's not adopted by ordinance. So, uh what we came to is with our sister agencies, you know, where essentially you're not trying to poach from other entities. We've agreed on an hourly wage and then also we work with the mayor and uh about when we do vendor pay because one of the problems that you would run into almost in any organization is that if someone has vacation or they take off and we're requesting to get a bulk of our manpower in there, it wouldn't be a time and a half. So with vendor pay, whether you're if you're off or not and you don't reach your 40, you still get the vendor pay, which is double time. So, and and I understand your concerns. I I filled a lot of phone calls about concerns about public safety, people on roadways, and all I can do is always report to the statistics that

I understand. And uh and our job is to deal with the situation that I have in front of me. And I know they're working on building a better crosswalk down there. And I'm sure as time goes along, if there's more inclination flux, we'll re-evaluate and we'll develop a plan. And at that time, we'll definitely brief the mayor on what our plan is and how to deal with it. Uh Shay, but but just for clarity, I think I heard you say that on opening weekend, we had officers on standby to manually intervene with that signal should traffic back up. And at no point they had to intervene on opening weekend. Is that right? Correct. Yes, we were. Was it?

They were actually down there. If on Friday and Saturday, you would have seen our police vehicle right at the intersection because they were paying us to be there and we never had to manually operate that light. And it was a soft opening. Correct. Correct.

It was Yeah, I was there all three days and Friday was the crazy day of the three days. Um, you had a question about the overflow parking and like the need for cars waiting. So on non-markets days, which markets only on Sundays from 8:00 to 1, they are that's their space. That's their parking lot for overflow parking lot. And they're working on that crosswalk right now to get that finished. I think should be finished in next week and a half or so to go goes all the way across from Allen's all the way up to the bike park. Exactly. And so that will be I think a big help. I'm concerned about it too. make sure people are safe. But that's at least be a pathway forward until the rumors of a tunnel or a overpass for pedestrians and for cyclist can come to fruition.

Well, my point is is that you're you're tunneling bike traffic to one point. One point. And so, you know, just say that it's it we we have a just a great turnout and you have tons of people here. How are we going to how are we going to do that light? Are you going to let 20 bikes across and then five cars or, you know, because that area already is prone to congestion just like uh you know, uh Mr. harp and wells, you know, just just that left turn light alone is is a pain, you know, and I just don't know how we're going to navigate that on days where you've got traffic both ways. You got 100 people waiting across at one point and then how how are you going to get that and and have that situated where you're not having people just losing their mind sitting in traffic? Well, one of the things that we always try to train our officers on is most the time when people feel the need they need to interject manually. You don't. The light is like said, uh, Taylor said, has a study that's meant to move traffic flowingly. And since the bypass has come in, compared to how our traffic used to be, it's it's it's

decreased drastically. So until I we really see something that I think that becomes a concern for us at the PD, then then I think then we would bring it to the mayor's concerns at that time. But I I don't see anything remotely close to that. Oh, and I know this is all hypothetical. I mean, I'm not predicting the future or anything like that. I mean, but those are the concerns that I have looking down the road is what what it could be.

I I understand that. And like I say, I I take a lot of phone calls and everybody always gives me the what if my child's hit on the bike. And my thing of it is is that we provide the best possible service that we can, we address issues that are brought to our attention and try to correct the issue or if it's something that is out of the PD's realm is to bring it to the mayor's attention. Okay. Yeah. And I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I know. No. Please don't misinterpret what I'm getting. Not Not at all. I just I understand your concern and I'm I'm I'm trying to tell you what I'm trying to do for for the you know the city. So,

well, as I recall back in the planning commission, uh at the time uh Craig's referring to that blue crane did indicate they done a traffic study and they thought it was a manageable situation. So, but those traffic studies are done on the existing structure. Correct. I mean, They they did the traffic study when the buildings were still up before anything was demolished and all. They have to base it on estimates of potential future use and then current add that to the current use and they do their engineer magic on it and okay come up with something. That's fine.

Well, thank you Tim. That was helpful. Uh the next uh discussion item is construction permit fees and that's council member Hughes.

So also talking about Oz Bike Park. So, I had a resident reach out and with a rumor they had heard that Ozike Park had paid zero dollars in permit fees. And I thought, well, surely that's incorrect because that'd be crazy. And so, I reached out to Taylor and she was able to confirm that they had paid at least a real cursory search that she did for me at least $68,000 in permit fees. So, it was a relief. I was going through the the list though and there was one that had a building permit fee for the part of the lift and the original I think total of the fee was about 22ish,000 and there was a fee reduction by the mayor of about $17,000 on it. So they paid about $6,000 instead of the full um 20 almost 22 on that one. And I was just trying to figure out because I know that I don't think money is an issue for the particular company at hand. And it's not like this is a hospital or a new library or a fire department. So for the community goods, it's a business. So I was trying to figure out a bit understanding of why that would been reduced.

Okay. Yeah. Uh the the permit fees on this particular project uh on the building itself uh the building permit fee was $8,020. The impact fee was $50,160. The searchcharge fee that goes to state, that's $1,000. And the plan review fee was $100, which is too low. We didn't have our uh since then we've changed our plan review situation now on the bike lift which is what you're referring to. The uh impact fee was $2,98. So it's much less than the other impact fee and that's because it's based on square footage. Even though the bike lifts very dynamic, it doesn't have square footage like a building. The plan review fee was $2,619.81. 81 cents and that's because we had changed our quite appropriately had changed our rules about plan review because it is pretty significant review and the search charge fee for the state was a thousand that's always uh the case. So there's a mathematical calculation of the fee on the bike lift or on anything and our permit folks did that calculation came out to $17,000 and some dollars and uh blue crane uh I guess you I would say protested that and the the thing about the uh permit fees is uh well I had you know Jason involved giving me law and whatnot and and the mayor can uh wave a permit fee or even make it zero. And but the thrust of the argument was,

you know, this is an expensive structure, but it's not. If you would build a building that was as valuable as that structure, your permit people would be going out many, many times to, you know, do electrical inspection, do a plumbing inspection, do a, you know, all kinds of different inspections. In fact, even on a house, our people end up going there a number of times and maybe the total fee is $2,000, $3,000, something like that. So, one of the theories of a permit fee is it has to be consistent with how much work is done. Well, in this case, and the reason Blue Crane pushed back on it, in this case, uh the, you know, it's a structure that somebody else reviews and says whether it's okay or not. you know, some engineering firm with with the technical expertise in that and they show it to our folks and our folks review it, look it over, but it's not like a building where you're running out there 10 times to look at it and review this and review that. So, uh, they pushed back on the fee and I lowered the permit fee from 17,000 to $250. But the rationale was that in the meantime, you know, they're doing things like Walton related entities. You know, the Mercy Way Bridge, they're paying paid 20% of it, which is 1.4 million. Then we're talking about extending the the greenway pass to Metfield. It's 3.5 million. They said, "Yeah, we'll pay the 20%." That's $700,000. So, you know, some some people with the a city suggested to me, why are you arguing nickel and

diamonding these people when uh you know, they're doing spectacular things with money for us? But you know the main thrust of it was uh well first I thought they paid some really significant money on the building particularly the impact fee of 50,000 and just the fact that we didn't review that like we would a building and you know it was relying on the expertise of others to say that it's okay. So that that was uh the thrust of what went on and and uh I was comfortable with it and thought it was you know it's one of those things where some people would say oh that's fair and other people would say it's not fair and

you know it's subjective but I was comfortable with it. How did you come up to that number? Well they wanted it to be zero and I said I don't want to do zero. Yeah but it was reduced by what 16,000. It was quite a big $920 $2010 cents. It's a very specific. Yeah. So, how did you what was the formula that created that you know 10 cent you what came up? How do we get that number? The 250 it wasn't a percentage or anything. It was just uh I just didn't want it to be zero. I wanted to be some to be some significant number. So

So we just made Sorry, I'm not trying to be obtuse. So, we just made up a number or because again 16,92210 is a very specific. It's not like, hey, we're giving you five grand off $15,000. It's a very I'm just trying to wrap my brain around it. When people ask me questions, I can explain to them and it makes sense. Yeah. I saw someone made a comment on uh I don't look at Facebook a lot, but somebody made a comment that uh hey, they got some kind of special deal. You know, I didn't view it that way. I viewed it as an unusual item and uh you know there was there was significant discussion before we got where we got

but there's no reasoning of why we have that particular number and not like around like 5,000 10,000 16,900 $2210. It's just a very oddly specific Yeah. Well, the original number is a calculation and the permit person actually has a, you know, you just take it costs X dollars and then you do the math and it comes out this that's where that comes from. But that's my point. Item uh with that kind of value, the project valuation on the lift was like 8.2 million and some.

If that was a building, we'd spend it. And so it comes out the permit fee should be 17 grand. If that was a building, we would have spent a tremendous amount of time looking at that building. You spent pretty significant time just looking at one house really. So I mean that the time and effort wasn't really in the vague vicinity of that really. So so that's why what was done was done. myself. But I, you know, I feel like you, you know, one thing people have to realize with no matter who you're dealing with, they're human beings and they have human type emotions. And uh, you know, they would naturally have a feeling like we're doing the last stuff for you and then we paid big bucks on this building and and now you're not being fair to us. That's the feeling they would have. In fact, you're being clearly unfair to us. Travis,

did you does anyone at the city even, you know, certified or able or have that expertise to go and inspect this lift? Because special inspector

Yeah, it's a it happens. But in a rare coincidence, uh our chief building inspector used to be in Las Vegas, so He is used to specialty type items where outside people have the expertise. You know, there's a lot of amusement park type things there and whatnot. So uh he he's familiar with the process but that part especially where it's supposed to be commensurate with the you know you otherwise what the reason they make rules like that they being the people make the laws is they don't want you just sitting there making stuff up about you know what the fee is. They want it to be something reasonable. So, you know, having to do with the effort you make. So, and I felt and they had we had all these other fees, you know, as you said, we still got almost $6,000 on that particular item and $59,000 some on the building. So, I didn't feel like, you know, they were skating or anything. It pretty fair amount of money really. So, that's the story. Anybody else have a comment?

Anna, I can see it both ways and I I understand, you know, when you're in a negotiation or in a partnership, you know, you want everybody to win, right? Everybody wants to feel like they're they've gotten what they wanted. The only thing that comes to mind for me is some of the small businesses is they're opening small businesses and they have to pay all the fees that are assigned to them. um and they don't have the kind of money that Blue Crane has. So, that's the only thing that kind of, you know, rubs me the wrong way a little bit. Well, you voted yes, but I do understand um kind of both ways. I'm sorry, Travis.

The the council adopted those fees and you voted yes to them. So, you you were responsible for that. The impact fees. Yes. You we we as a small business license fees, the fees that small businesses have to pay. $25. Yes. We're not talking about $25. We're talking about permit fees is a totally different thing. The council adopts those, not the mayor.

Yeah, I don't understand your point, but thanks for interrupting me. It's just one of those things, you know. It's also uh uh you're dealing with somebody who uh um is interested in ongoing business with the city. And the list of people who are interested in ongoing business with the city of a significant dollar amount is quite short. I don't know if you've noticed that, but Larry,

I guess an observation would be is that we shouldn't be charging fees uh whether it's in our schedule or not if we're not going to do something to enforce the code on that particular phase of construction. I think what you're talking about is really the merrygoround uh that goes up the hill, right? The chairlift. Isn't that what the big deal is? Yes.

And so that that's really a I think a state regulated item on the project. They've done detailed reviews because it's open to the public as are the roller coasters in Missouri and other places. And I think down in in Little Rock, there's some things down there where they have the public involved. And those are those are projects that are immensely and closely reviewed by the state um commission. Um and and so we have little input in it except for some of the connections of electrical and other stuff that goes on whether where they interconnect to the existing utilities. And so I I I don't have any problem with what the mayor did on that particular issue.

Well, actually that was our original argument is this is a state issue, not a a city. You don't need a city permit, but we did do a city permit. But it's an argument that it's Yeah. Yeah. State functional. So, well, I think that's pretty much it unless someone else says Travis, uh, the only not on the agenda, but one thing that I was made aware of is the local newspaper, the Weekly Vista, is still advertising work sessions for 5:30 instead of 6. So, I know if we sent them that information or not.

Okay. Thank you. Yeah, sometimes it takes I'll mention that. I think we noticed something before where it was listed. It takes a while to get the the new word out to people, but I appreciate that. Okay. Uh, with that, we're adjourned and we'll be next Monday at 6. Thank you. Tuesday. That's right. Next Monday is Memorial Day. Thank you.