Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

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e e e e gentlemen I'd like to call the uh town of Bedford zoning board of appeals meeting to order for uh what are what date is our date today um March 6 uh 2025 my name is Peter michis um this should not be a very nervous session for you guys it's relatively easy um our um assistant over here Kim Kowalski will read the application when you hear your

application red please come up to the to the podium here and present to us what it is you'd like to do what we're doing here is a public hearing so people will be on the zoom call perhaps or in the audience if they want to speak on your application um I will open it up at some point to allow people to talk after we've heard what you're going to say and um if there is nobody then we will probably close the public hearing we will try to reach a decision tonight on your application and um we will go from there I'm joined here by Howard Stern on my left and rosemary Lee all the way on the other end is Meredith black and Roger Grand Len and we have our building inspector here Al Shaco as well so the first one is Lee Owen 84 Valley Road Katona section block and lot 49.1 19-1 D30 residential quarter Acres Zing District the applicant is Seeking a variance to permit an already installed generator that resulted in 25.5% of building coverage where a maximum of 20% of building coverage is permitted in the res residential quarter acre zoning District Article 5 Section 12550 thank you oh lee I believe Lee is on Zoom how are you good you're on the S you told me you'd be on Zoom okay yep hi again so um do I have is there something I should be saying here yeah just tell us what it is well from what I understand you you're saying um the we were all out there before we G we gave her a variance for a generator and and when she did the I guess um the um survey surve back it came back with the different numbers and so we're here to legit to legitimize the numbers is that correct but I didn't see I believe so I didn't see anything in the previous resolution unless I'm misreading it about coverage I so the setback but not the coverage according to their calculations they were under coverage

the original and then when they got the as buil there we go so this is calculated it for I'm not mistaken El would have been in the last marith can we um amend uh our previous no it has to be new because we didn't give a variance for coverage previously gotta is there anyone that wanted to speak on this application can't change it the generator's there just kidding um um these people ex the only thing I would note is that the new variance doesn't supersede or modify the the prior variance so many times we have a Vari a new variance so supersede a prior variance we're changing it in this case it's not it is a standalone variance that doesn't in any way change the original variance that was granted got you any conversation or we should do just uh uh has the formal screening uh with a fence or Landscaping been installed yet or not yet uh there's no um there's a fence around the property but I haven't landscaped it yet just because of the weather okay so that will happen when the weather is right [Applause] okay do we know do we have any sense from the last applic Al do we know on the last application when they brought this in how what our coverage calculations were I'm just trying to look at where the discrepancy [Applause] arose I don't know if I have the previous application packet with me [Applause] I mean the the a meeting agenda says um the generator resulted in 25.5% of building coverage were maximum 20% yeah they came in at 18% right no I'm just trying to understand why is is that's very large discrepancy to have had between applications I'm just trying to understand what what was missed so I'm

just looking might have just spend the numbers I don't know who did that calculation I think the generator got we also are receipt of a um a letter from Craig Johnson at 79 Valley Road who in support of the application just make that a part of the record if I'm not mistaken Le I think it was the generator guy who did that calculation um I'm not sure I don't even remember which calculation it was to be honest with you Meredith it is a small lot so even a couple of square feet yeah no on the math could make a a difference no that's why that's why I was just looking to understand but it's there there's quite a bit of differences just so that the board knows um and these things do happen but we wound up the building for example on the original application was 648 and on the new one it's showing it at 862 the the pad actual for the a for the AC and Generator flag here at 29 um we had that one's not too bad that was at 26 between the two so that wasn't bad but the other one that was really left absent was the open porch at 294 because there are discrepancies that can happen but this is a significant jump in that percentage so even though it's a small lot that's a lot of square footage to have app to do um so you're also saying there were were other discrepancies yeah so there's there were three discrepancies the building itself wasn't properly calculated there's almost 200t difference there and the open porch was totally left left off the application if it had just been a difference with the AC uh generator that was very close to 29 versus 26 so that wouldn't have caused such a big jump but it's the other two numbers that have such a huge a large variable and they weren't included on the the house was incorrectly calculated and that open p

porch wasn't included at all so that's where the error arose um so so those discrepancies caus the number to jump to 25 significantly yeah yeah so just always watching for that I don't have any problem with the variants you know I it's clearly an error but you know it's it's a challenge when it's that significant of an error you know quite frankly it would have been nice to see because the homeowner didn't make adjustments to their house or to the porch and we would have been able to grant them the variance originally around this conversation because the additional six six feet that they added for the AC's generator wouldn't have changed the outcome of that first variant but it would have prevented them from having to return now to do the correction and modification so um I have no I have no problem with the application I just that that's what motion that on it sure thank you oh did were there any did you ask about members of the public to speak on this yeah oh I can now I should ask like um nobody did want to speak on this can I have a motion to close the public hearing some second all those in favor I public hearing is closed go ahead okay um the applicant sorry the board moves to approve the application as noticed in particularly the benefits sought by the applicant cannot be achieved by another means feasible to the applicant in this instance the discrepancy regarding the variance would have Arisen under the first application um if the numbers had been appropriately calculated and the professional did so made an error and so that's where the error Rose um the generator itself is also already installed is consistent with other neighbors uh other areas and neighborhoods uh so in that sense the application that would have been triggered by a need for the additional coverage would not have changed the outcome in any way and there's no other way to have a generator or get to change essentially the footprint of the house or whatnot there were no additional structures added here other than what had been previously thought just the calculations were erroneous there will not be an undesirable change to the character of the neighborhood a detriment to the

nearby properties again there's no change in the physical structure uh beyond what already had previously existed and there was a a problem in the num so again there's no change in the neighborhood here caused by this the variance itself um is substantially it's over 5% increase almost a 7% increase from what was originally shown and proposed but it's uh that's not the only factor that we look at and again this was caused by erroneous calculations on the original application not any changes to the development of the site itself the variance uh requested will not result in any adverse physical or environmental effects on the neighborhood or Community the alleged difficulty in this case I would argue was not self-created there was an error uh in the original calculations had they been presented in totality with the original apption in all likelihood it would have been approved to begin with and so the only way to correct this and it was discovered upon uh providing the survey that was required by this board is to come and get a variance in order to correct this this error and the application the applicant is seeking to do that the approval of the proposed variance would be subject to the following conditions uh you need to essentially close out your building permit and then it is it already installed now at this point since they were doing a certified yes okay so close out the building permit and you're going to have your certified ads built uh survey completed and then submitted uh back to the building department prior to the issuance of the certificate of that's what she submitted was the as built for that's why we're here okay so that's already been submitted and it's and the plantings and the plan seasal and the other conditions on the original application for Vance have been fully satisfied at this point is that the board no it needs to be she needs to do the planting when it gets nice when it gets so the conditions as U the conditions on with regard to the first variant still stand and that the applicant still needs to provide and maintain formal screening uh with the Landscaping that was part of the original application that's continued uh

condition of this particular variance as well and the variance is granted in accordance with the plan submitted to the board uh dated 107 2024 and submitted on January 13th 2025 I'll [Applause] second m Mr Stern yes M Lee yes Mr van Lin yes Miss GL yes Mr mallis yes Lee you got it all right thank you so much thank you thank you take [Applause] care Peter lascaris 412 Bedford Road bever Hills section block and lot 6017 d352 one residential quarter acre zoning District the applicant is Seeking a variance to permit a two-p par garage and a second floor bedroom expansion addition to a pre-existing legal residence where the sidey sa back results in 11 feet where 15 ft is required in the residential quarter acre zoning District Article 5 Section 125-1 evening you want to come to the microphone oh want to get introduce yourself you can stand there and [Applause] talk uh testing yeah everyone you are I'm Peter lascaris okay yeah and your house is the red house yes okay did you guys come by and look at yeah we we do come out and look at the various sites but yeah well it was difficult to see a number for your particular house at least I couldn't find one this it by the mailbox is this

numbers down below well I only found I didn't even see it there I saw it only because I could see the other ones 816 814 but I anyway I assumed that the red one was your yeah the red one's mine it's it's on the mailbox there's some numbers I haven't put them on to the I don't want to put holes in the new masonry got that it's not really new but I still don't want to put holes in them so I just lay them on there and the wind don't doesn't blow them off so so tell us what it is you want to do well I I'm running out of space I got I got two little kids and you know so I'm just trying to make a little bit more Elbow Room trying to make the bedroom bigger and add a little to the living room and that's it oh a two-car garage as well and I'm also going to you know I have to once that's done I have to clean up the driveway I have to put I'm going to put I think I don't know the you know the cement you know the like Tic Tac Toe going up so it doesn't wear out you know but I don't want to put the asphalt because it's better if it goes sucks it down right but I want to clean it up you know and then um I need more Elbow Room you know I need a two I want to put a two-car garage and you know so you're you're um what I saw there you have a driveway up to that's past on the right hand side there was a driveway that goes up on the left hand side there was a well it looks like a driveway except that it's there's all already a lot of water run off of it see what that is there was a big blue truck up at the top my truck so what that's where the garage is going to go the garage is yeah you right along the building yeah but up there on that side where where the blue truck was yes got but not all the way up there halfway up halfway

up okay so you'll enter it come out and then the um uh what was your question as far as the uh oh so there's a underground drain that comes from on top of the hill nobody knows where who put it there the the highway department doesn't know who put it there they won't they won't they don't acknowledge that they put it there so I have to maintain it so that driveway is kind of inherent because you always got to go up there and then you always you know it's always going to be the driveway there because that's where the driveway that's where the the drain d goes under that driveway the right side driveway or the left the left side left side the left side okay and that's where you're talking about putting the pavers yeah not pavers those interlocking the ones that have a Target and the back the back a Target okay they have holes for water to go through they yeah the water goes in yeah yeah that's better than yeah that's what I'm looking at I mean not 100 right at the bottom there's that large drain and that's the one that nobody knows who put it in that you saw the large drain yeah yeah there's two of them there there's one going right on my property and then further down there's another one yeah and then it goes into the into the into the town water I guess now is that a common driveway the one that goes out to De Center Road the the circle is common what about the big driveway going out to Bedford Center uh for to Bedford Road the one that I drove up and walked I walked out yes that that's that's uh there's four houses I believe the four or five houses that feed off of that so are they all responsible for maintaining that because that one a lot of well that this is an ongoing thing we've been having but we we've kind of resolved it where the guy everyone's

kind of chipping in we're and we're GNA pave the front part of it going like you say all the way down to Bedford Road and they offered me money but I held off because I wanted I knew that I was going to be doing work and I wanted to let the dust settle right and and then so they all offered me money yeah but I said hold your money cuz I don't want to throw it away yet common driveway so they're all so here's his place right here no not so you're at the top of the hill you're going to bump out the house for the two-car garage and then on top of the garage is going to be the expanded for the bedroom yes ma'am okay no big surprise I mean I'm you know I I was thinking about doing a bigger renovation you know but I figure just get something done because the kids they're you know they're they're out growing it you know like got one in college and she's like Dad I'm like this you know in the dorm she's in the dorm she's in right she's so it's not much it's about I programmed her she's but you know it's about time I did something because it's it's a very small house yeah it looks big from me it looks big but it's believe it or not it's like something like 1,400 Square fet some crazy small number you know so I have some storage you know I have a the shed in the back I have some storage you know but the stor the storage helps I have upstairs these two rooms that look like the part of the house but they're just storage rooms that's all they are is there anybody that wanted to speak on this application in the audience no anybody on no there's nobody on the zoom call if I can have what's that no I was going to say if I can have a motion to close the public hearing so moov second all those in favor I public hearing is closed yes okay so I just want to point out a couple things for the homeowners so um you obviously did a great job of making sure on your zoning data that you got your coverages laid out here

building coverage and pervious and whatnot um be very careful if and when you touch that driveway about creating more impervious than what you have because it will affect your numbers you don't want to wind up coming back to us for a variance on the driveway I see you have it's marked as existing asphalt where that is so that's already flagged as impervious but you also have a gravel and dirt area obviously so before you change that to if you if you were to change it to an impervious subject make sure that you either talk to the building department probably building Department's best idea help you with the calcul to make sure you don't trigger a variance unnecessarily because as you point out don't make more impervious don't don't as black top yeah you can add some you have room on your property to do some according to the percentages but you want to be very careful driveways tend to get people very quickly inadvertently over that number so just point that out because you mentioned the neighbors are interested in contributing and making changes and this is on your property so a lot of times we have a situation where we have a shared driveway and the flag driveway um is it feeds in but here you have most of the shared areas are on your lot your lot is the one that winds up carrying the burden of that the board does give consideration for that but be very careful is what I'm suggesting going forward okay so and I only mentioned that because you did make note of potentially changing it and the Neighbors being interested in changes and this is on your lot so it would impact you and having to you talk about the circles the yeah if you touch the circle okay or if you expanded the existing asphalt driveway to make it wider things that add more as to that driveway are going to complicate your life so be mindful of that talk to the building department before you take a step lat just suggestion is you're going to need a Nas buil survey so you you get your your uh surveyor on board from the beginning and go over with them exactly of what you have impervious what because everybody looks at things differently

like the grass papers Johnson will look at that half and half 50% imperious 50% impervious because of the concrete structure of that type of lot so keep them in the loop and they'll give you the numbers as you go so you can avoid coming yeah even though they're a nice bunch of corre but I would comment that your idea on your driveway I'm sorry man I I like it's all his driveway though roseary large even the large entrance if there's if there's the differences so there are times when you can have a common driveway or Common Road that has shared ownership in it there's other times where it's simply an an easement of egress or um egress um or access so you're saying the entire access uh driveway that's run down now is all his property that's there's nothing on here nothing in indicating otherwise he and then there's probably an easement across it but ownership fee ownership sits with you know gentleman here okay but I think that uh what what I agree with is your the driveway that you're repairing up to your house you're using some perious pavers so you cut down the amount of hard cover like asphalt on that so you reduce it and that's a good idea so congratulations on that one it is yeah no no it looks I thought the main driveway uh was common driveway it's surprising me you did ask that before I'm sorry if I said yes it's like I actually own it but they have an easement through it what she said hopefully they'll get that work done yeah we're we're getting there a couple you know everyone's being a little you know said well we have some money we're going to let's do this first part I said hold off because I knew I was doing something and I didn't want to have big trucks coming in and ripping it up and no no and with driveway and impervious you want to be mindful it it tends to be a problem for people um I don't have any problems though with the

proposed addition or the setback here that's being requested it's from it's 11 ft versus what uh is 15 I know that it significantly drops and you know he could he could reduce down that addition a little bit to scale it but that's really eats into more the footprint which is the idea is to create a little bit more space in there and he's really under in terms of the actual both impervious and building coverage I don't problem with no no problem you want to make a motion sure uh we're ready to make a motion on your property on your on your application [Applause] I get the right name just put it [Applause] there uh the zoning board of appeals related to an application um by Peter lascaris Thursday March 6 2025 uh requesting uh per to permit a two-car garage and a second floor bedroom expansion addition to a pre-existing legal residence and the sidey setback results in 11 ft where 15 ft is required in the R1 qu a zoning agenda um related to this application the uh applicant has indicated that he is U adding a putting in addition in a two-car garage due to the size uh constraints on the house it's uh rather small at400 ft and he needs more space to accommodate his family in our discussions uh the board has pointed out that it is uh very good to M to monitor that there is no further increase in impervious Surface by repair or replacement of uh of driveway uh materials and also that the uh the change the benefits sought by the applicant cannot be achieved by another means feasible to the applicant there will be no undesirable change to the character of the neighborhood or

detriment to the nearby properties rather an improvement of the existing property uh the variance is not substantial and the variance requested will not result in any adverse physical or environmental effects on the neighborhood or Community rather there will be an improve Improvement of the exterior of the property and uh the alleged difficulty is not self-created but it uh it is necessary in terms of the accommodation and the family uh requirements but that is only one of the factors that we consider in making a decision and it is not the determination of of our decision so the approval of the proposed variance would be subject to the following conditions one the applicants shall use their best efforts to ensure the building permit is issued within one year of the board's approval of this variance and then diligently pursue such construction to completion two the applicant shall submit a certified as built survey including building and impervious coverage calculations to the building department prior to the issuance of the certificate of occupancy and three the variances granted in accordance with plan submitted to the vard dated January 17th 25 January 17th [Applause] 2025 a second [Applause] Mr Stern yes M Lee yes Mr van Len yes M black yes Mr mallace yes you got it thank sir do you want these plans back I don't know the answer if you take them you won't need them if you don't take them you'll need them okay I'll take and it always costs more to print them and stamp them yes good nice to see you good job thank all right good luck app 325 Bedford Road LLC 325 Bedford

Road Bedford Hills section block and lot 6014 d5- one Central Business zoning District the applicant is Seeking a variance to permit the installation of a third wall sign 2124 Square ft with 12in lettering where two all signs already exist and where a maximum of two signs are permitted in the Central Business zoning District article 11 section 125-10 B1 good evening good evening my name is Robert Spano I'm asking for the third sign I have permitted two signs already I'm asking for the one on the back side of the building the backside facing as you approaching the building from this direction facing this this side yes facing oh this way yes oh okay not not parallel with the road uh no perpendicular he's got he's got one on the face parallel he's got one on the outside that on the side Other Side Drive in you can't see that D so gotta the signs you've got are beautiful thank you if the same style I got well ex I don't know no they they're all good they're light they're really nice that lady with you who's that lady it's a good song I nice all right we miss you yeah um I don't have any problems I don't have any problems I don't either I don't either Roger make a motion so um sure so is this this is just a regular I just I just want to point out so there's a couple things we talk about signs a lot I don't have any problem with the application I just point out too we have a lot of sign applications that do come in and here we don't have any window signs that are being put up nor do we have signage going even over the canop here they're really looking for the building to do it so I think the applicant is seeking to limit the signage on the building but are still

allow it to be identifiable for different approaches and it's not lit right am I correct it's not lit it's not lit so um and you're not moving you're not moving the red awning from there to there yeah no no no um so I think that that's you know we've SE a lot of different sign applications that come in and I think this is one where you know the applicant while it's an access to the code isn't really looking to push the envelope to totally paper the entire building or all the doors or all the windows yeah I agree and you're coming at it from different uh entrances in other words you're crossing over or you're driving on Adam Street Etc so it's it's important for it to be visibility for those people who are they're not bright yeah no they look like they're almost brick color it's kind of interesting how they blend in that's beautiful yeah the way that they're designed allows you to see it from the intended angle without it feeling intrusive as wrapping around the building or elsewhere which is why you need more signage that you need yeah you need to finish we're going to need to get you a microphone if you keep talking yeah uh anybody by the way wanted to speak on this application no hearing seeing nobody can I have a motion to close the public hearing so moved all those in favor I I public hearing is closed Roger okay I make a motion to um to Grant variance for um 332 Adam Street 325 325 I'm sorry am I on the wrong one oh sorry very cl25 sorry 325 Bedford wrote um for a third sign on the building which exceeds the uh the minim the maximum of two um this board in particular has found that the benefit to the applicant by granting variants outweighs any alleged

detriment to the community and determining the following the benefits so by applicant um although can uh cannot be achieved by another means feasible the applicant and that there will be no undesirable change to the character of the neighborhood or detriment to the nearby properties and the variance requested is U not substantial in this particular case due to the particular way in which the signage is proposed and and the U The Limited uh site that it's on being the back of the building it's away from from the the the nearest property line variance requests will not result in an adverse physical or environmental effect on the neighborhood community and the alleged difficult although self-created but that's not the only one of the factors to be considered by the board making its decision and is not determinative approval of the proposed variants would be subject to the following conditions the applicants will use their best effort to ensure that a bill in permit is issued within one year of the Court's approval and this variance and diligently pursue the such construction to be completed uh the applicant shall submit a well actually we don't need an asil no we don't don't need an asilt Ser survey and that the variance is granted ordance with the I have the plans received on February 3rd 2025 January 3rd 2025 second all second NOP Howard seconds Mr Stern yes M Lee yes Mr van L yes M black yes Mr mes yes you guys got it thank you very much have a good evening thank you Mr Mrs Spano you did a beautiful job with that building

thank I know what it looked like before you bought it you looked at it all the [Laughter] time hold on one minute hold on um you did you put it in the application thank you again you good night thank you one [Applause] second I know I don't know why is it well no it's supposed to be good until the 18th I know but they only gave us 40 minutes and and it just ran out and right now it's it's converting the meeting into a recording so I got to give it a second and then I'll see if I can log back in another one yeah I'll see if I can log back in but I'm only on 26 SEC 27% charge of the zo don't look at me then were're supposed to continue you told me it was going to be good to the 18th now I'm wondering if it was I hope you could even set up a meeting say again I hope you can even do it that was one of the things that they were changing who's that typing is that Gina must be Gina oh okay hi Gina just Shing just Lee was on we got her done oh good here we go here we go we're back are we back Gina you have to start it I think to initiate it oh okay okay give me I'm I'm only

6% I'm going to have my snack now I'm up to 60% Microsoft exactly I'm doing this for you Kim so it's something be fun who would have guessed and what are they converting it to Russian good big it looks like that sometimes those transcripts could be a little funny well we better talk fast if it's going to knock you off every 40 minutes yeah well we I don't think we have another 40 minutes to go thank gosh you can do it we can do it got to 3 and 40 let's go you you had a bunch of stuff going on at rurn this week yeah yeah we're finishing up my my work and we have the sale going the road work or something or something over there or no road work my contractors in sale of um Cals I think they're working on it 13 acres went to the town I think they might be cont I thought there was some work there was being done at the intersection or something no okay this she need to close out what need close out some things have to close she'll have to close them out I know she's not but they told me closing within two weeks and like a month ago we told you we need stuff do you know who's buying no damn it that I can't help you with I I want know if there's kids my kids want [Applause] kids every time someone buys it's an older person one it's a nice house I haven't been inside it but

House recording in progress so I'm good to go 536 Bedford Road LLC 332 Adam Street Bedford Hills section block and lot 60113 D4 light industrial zoning District the applicant is Seeking a variance for a total of three installed signs where two signs are permitted in the light industrial zoning District sign one a and 1B are flat wall signs 97.5 square ft each with 36 in lettering where a maximum letter height of 12 in is permitted if a fix less than 100 ft from the center line of the nearest road and sign two is 40 is 4.8 squ ft with 12in lettering is a fixed to a canopy where sign is not permitted on a canopy in the light industrial zoning district and where the total area of all signs on the lot is exceed 1.5 Square ft for each horizontal linear foot of the facade or 97.5 squ ft² in the light industrial zoning District article 11 section 125-10 A and B1 and 125-1 122h evening good evening zoning board members my name is Christopher olera I'm a representative Westchester Metal Works the tenant at 332 Adam [Applause] Street so we uh we installed the three signs um with not knowingly we we did not know we had to pull a permit we found out um we're trying to correct the issue and uh legalize them uh the we

have two logos one on each side of the building so that can be seen uh based on which direction on Adam Street you are driving and then we have a small canopy above our office door labeling office um and it has our wmw above the canopy um the main reason we put the canopy was uh safety concern uh during the winter months uh I large icicles were forming above the office door and constantly falling as the sun would melt them and caused the potential Hazard uh present so we put a 2ot 11 w sticking out canopy to cover the swing of the door so uh people coming out of the office are safe and we labeled in the canopy office so uh people approaching the business know where to enter because there's no literature uh indicating um I drove by today and um I had no problem with any of those signs the only thing I had a problem with was the huge wmw on the side um just because um I thought the size of the Westchester metal Works was all appropriate um and you can certainly see it correct it was just just a gigundo 3ot if those are 3 fet it look bigger are those the 3ot lettering correct the Westchester Metal Works is 12in high letters and the wmw or or company logo at 3ft letters yeah that's the only problem I that's the only that's I only had problem with the the 3T High sign but the rest of it I thought was fine and even over the canopy was fine too um that was that was relatively modest and you needed a place to see how to get into the building so correct I agreee with you on that one anybody else I agree I I agree and that I don't have a problem with the three sides but I I do take issue with the size of that W yeah like it just it's it's out of it's out of scale I mean it just is really out of scale and that's my concern is you know like we see a lot of sign applications and we have to be

mindful of where we give distance in here there's a reason why we had the 100 foot set back and there's a reason why we've looked at that as far as scaling so do if that was CVS well I I actually didn't have a problem with it I thought it was appropriate for the size and scale of the building and also there's a downward slope on from the roadway to see the building so I thought it was appropriate to have the signage where it could be seen from the road because it does go down uh somewhat of of a slope correct so um I I thought they were appropriate for the industrial building in the area over there in terms of the size and scale of that building which is probably one of the biggest on that whole Road thank you I mean we don't have signs going above the roof height um which is a big code requirement uh we try again we have 262 ft of Frontage on the road um and we just felt like uh the sides one on each side would be more appropriate cuz again the building has a tapered roof and putting a sign on the Frontage of the road with all the windows you didn't want to cover any of the windows um the best place to put these signs r on these ends and again as you said that the building is lower from the street to make it a little visible um I I appreciate it's not lit or anything of that sort we have no PL the other thing is is this a a landscaping plan you have in in here uh it's a site plan yeah site plan correct I see you're putting up some Landscaping there uh we used the site plan from the the building owner we are just an tenant um again I put these drawings together myself and trying to uh address the violations in a timely manner so to get a survey would take a little bit longer um so you're releasing the building from correct we we have a negotiation to buy uh the property

within two years so we're we're waiting to close on a previous location to purchase this one so we're leasing to purchase yeah I actually as I said I thought the signs were very appropriate for the industrial use of you're building the steel uh you know they weren't as shabby though they were nice nicely done so my opinion um I I I like the signs but in looking at the neighbors across the street Therapy Center arway Ren sport kitchen and M River their signs don't exceed the lettering doesn't Exceed 2 feet and what I'm concerned with is if we allow 3 feet I can see other PE other businesses on the Block coming back and asking for larger lettering and I think that might change the complexion of that roadway uh since it's not going to be used at night not lit up uh I'm not sure that uh it can't be accomplished with two feet of lettering versus three feet of lettering to avoid uh Neighbors coming back and asking for the same benefit of the uh bigger lettering that's my comment I'd also add that on the U one the very large sign the WM correct I don't even have a problem with the metal bar across the top um you know it's just it's just the three letters themselves that's all that's the one I'm that's what I'm referring to as as to additional people coming back every decision we make is individual decisions based on circumstance my thought is the majority of those buildings are not the size and scale of this building they're all all smaller buildings so how why they would come asking for that size I don't know if that would be the case but I know that our decision is made very individually on each application is there anyone in the

audience that wanted to talk on this application I don't see problem who's that who spoke you want to go up to Ray and talk do you want to go up and say something oh great Monte Gaza I just I pass the road every day and I see the work that going on the building I see no problem at all okay I mean aesthetically I don't I don't have a huge problem with it I think it would actually look nicer if the letters were thinner but is this is this your logo your letters because the drawing letters are different from what you actually made I'm assuming you made them in the shop correct we made it ourselves um again now making a drawing U to copy the exact font that we made it was a little difficult you know I'm working with fonts off the computer um so I try to match it as best as possible on the drawing um but size height and width are direct match on the drawing I wanted to um if there was nobody else some wanted to close the public hearing do I have a motion so moved all those in favor I I public hearing is closed I mean I I don't also don't I also recognize the fact that you know this is tough to set up a bad I'm I'm very worried about President we see sign applications all the time we see people constantly trying to push the limit and I don't see something that different differentiates this application this placement from someone else they have their their main logo underneath that runs the length of the building this is a long building you know like the pitch of the roof is not unique to the building there's other buildings in the vicinity that have the same con conceptual pitch and scale and so I'm very my my concern is not with the design and again not with the idea of having a third sign on this building similar to what we just approved before like you I understand wanting to have the visibility but I do have a problem

with the scale of those those letters because I think it's going to set a precedent and while today we say up maybe the other neighbors wouldn't do it we we we did see CVS coming in and trying to get much larger signage we have seen people scaling back based on what they hear the zoning board doing and not doing and if we approve three-foot lettering here and we don't have a really distinguishable reason why this one should is is separate from future applications or other applications I think it's going to start to set a precedent that it's going to be very difficult to walk back from what can we approve so so there are two pieces to the variance and there's different ways to do it so you have the size of the the lettering is one of the pieces as to the three feet here on these letters and the other one is three signs so those are both of those applications are here and are before us because the part of what it rolled into on the third sign is that they go over on the square footage of of totality so yeah I don't I I don't have a problem with the three signs it's just the three initials I will you know for the purposes of Aesthetics I will tell you I agree with rosemary I mean it looked really nice I think you know and and and it's appropriate given you're a metal company for what you did it's beautiful we just have a problem with you know three-foot sign it or those 3-ft initials are very just very large and I think you can accomplish what you need without without out them there because we're worried about the other people other people in town trying to copy the same thing and how do you say if someone comes back with four initials or five initials I mean it's it just gets to be uh so if it if it's uh I mean I don't want to I wasn't like not liking sign it's an aesthetic question the board we don't the board does not judge Aesthetics that is not our role in any so my comments about scale has nothing to do with me liking the aesthetic or not liking the aesthetic but it is a matter of saying like the is here for a reason and it helps really keep all of the designs within a certain parameter without feeling like you're you're going

down the strip somewhere where there's just signs in your face at every particular angle you go and so every time you make a decision that varies what the rules are so for example the three signs we're opening the door for someone else to say well why shouldn't I have three signs maybe we should ultimately change the law but in the meantime this person got three signs why can't I the three signs I can understand again from the visual and the different approaches that you take and particularly with the canopy and needing to add that for protection and stuff and wanting to have that label to distinguish an entry all of that makes makes perfect sense to me and I think is a good reason to allow it but I I struggle with the the oversized letter did you write in here to be removed so the wmw I was told that when we filed that the W the canopy is now considered a new roof level so that's not by code because W this is what you're asking for also for a variance for it would be nice to keep it I don't mind this one this one this one's removed the cat the office is what we office is what was noticed what was on top was not cuz he was removing that okay I'll remove it because would have been a different section okay another variance yeah can we approve this no wasn't noticed it wasn't noticed okay right and because that requires a different variance on a different code provision Ro so I noticed in if you want to come back for this one another one I mean that's easy enough I can that one ask you a question on your on your on the title block on the drawing the letters are in a curve correct which is is that your basically your logo that is our logo and a curve I'm telling you that would be really cool seeing the the curve of the roof if you could make the letters smaller and and curve them and kind of get this that would be even a better while factor I think and that would help help the meet the

variant um limits I think I mean what you could do or what what we could do is we could approve it and it depends on the board's pal you know interest you know my point I'm interest I would beable to the three signs but not to the to the additional the three-foot lettering right that allows him to have the signs and added up and he can always come back to adjust that other piece of it um if he so desires if he wants to modify this the design if he wants to modify the size because it's also going to change the square footage calculation here when you do that so just question if we were to agree to n um make the top letters you know let's say 2 feet um instead of three um do we have to come back to zoning board and or can we just submit an as build so so we could consider that now because what's before us is seeking three feet and the variant if you mod if you say well I'm willing to do two feet that's less than what was noticed so that would fall within the legal parameters of what we can do for uh what the public is aware of the application and that's something that we could could look at and consider today if you would like now the one thing with signage though is when you get a sign variance the signage is is essentially approved as shown on the plans or as consistent so when you reduce the size of it you still have to keep that the lettering generally consistent like proportion if bring it down that would be acceptable you couldn't change the design of the the initial you follow correct that would keep them the same just decrease the font uh size of the wmw to the two foot to the two foot Max heite and I think as Roger said if you wanted to design it in that curve that matches your your logo that's has to come back or he has to show it because the sign winds up being

approved as shown in the drawing so he can scale back the size cuz we can mark that but he can't change like the design aspect of it unless unless he should like draws it out now to show us what that looks like because the variance is for the size okay so if he drew Drew if he puts it on the draws it onto the drawing on the plan you cannot I cannot say it goes on the little thing here he has to go into his scale drawing and kind of show it generally what that looks like and that could be what it does what we could do if you want to let wait okay to allow you a moment if you would like to do that we do have one more application tonight and we could just simply hold this for a few minutes if you'd like to take that into consideration otherwise we can proceed with um considering the application with the two foot reduce lettering just as in the font and as shown but if you want to consider it it's still tonight we we could come back to this after our next application if you wanted to look at the lettering for a minute and weigh in whether you want to change the design of those a little bit or whether you want to keep them consistent gotta but you can either you can either you know we can either think about dropping what you have there now down two to a twoot or have it do the curve thing that you want but it would have to be drawn onto the thing shr the size want come back next month for that part if he wants to hold it open if he wants us to also hold the application open for a month there's no harm in that is there is there a problem for you in a delay uh there is no problem I just I have open violations because of these signs if he if he does decide to do the come back and he wants to keep those letterings above the door can he add to the it would have to be noticed as a new application noticed as new application coming back anyway off I'm okay you don't care about those no I don't care about those we can so we can either let you consider it tonight or and and bring

it up after the next or we can either rule so three things we could rule on it now MH we could rule at it based on what you're suggesting just reducing the two feet you could say I want a few more minutes to consider so can you just hold it until the next until we finish processing the next application corre and then even then you could say I need the month to decide hold my application open okay um or I if I can make why don't you why don't you why don't you come back next month with what you want because you're they're already up on the building yeah um you know instead of rushing through it right now okay and uh do that can I just consult with the owner of the company right now yeah that's fine that's fine soon as we we uh will be uh okay with it now again a violation yeah it's on the violations are all on hold because you're here seeking to to resolve it they're on hold and the the application fee will will be the same taking those three foot letters and just dropping them two feet doesn't seem to make a lot of sense what Roger suggested doing your curved instead and having it drawn properly at two feet would make much more sense so what we can do is we'll continue the you can continue the hearing and then that won't require us to Ren notice or you don't have to do anything other than to decide how how You' like potentially to modify the application and we'll pick up the discussion next month then and then they will not have to file any new application or payment it's still there no payment there no application if though they do look at and say this is how I'd like to see the the plan modified what I suggest is that you submit that in advance of the meeting so the board can look at that and have that as a topic of conversation we you always have the opportunity to present it that night too if if you find you're up against a time constraint or an issue for some reason you still can present it that night because your your variance application that's out there deals with

the threefoot lettering so that that when you come back theoretically it's going to reduce that so that's okay when do you you need to to submit let's go for the next next month but we want to subm the is there a minimum submitt date or by if I have like 10 days before the meeting that's fine and it's April 2nd we're thinking of moving it to Wednesday on the second no problem thank you board members than Youk thank you thank you had a nice job cleaning up the the building it does make a difference [Applause] that single Windows exactly that's right Nicholas and Haley at aopa 12 Rock Road Katona y was that right section block and lot 49.1 14-2 d24 resident Halfacre zoning District the applicants are seeking a variance to permit the construction of a roof over a pre-existing legal front porch which creates an increase in the height of a dimensional non-conforming structure and where the front yard setback to the porch resulted in 32.9 Ft where 35 ft is required in the residential Halfacre zoning District article 3 section 125-1 D and Article 5 section 125-150 okay what are you really doing are you really just extend we're here because you're just extending that roof line over that porch well the reason is the porch That's there is 2.1 ft over the boundary it was pre-built it was there when we got there but it was

coed for you know the setback we are putting a roof on and we're also doing a partial second floor addition but that's not part of the variance okay part of the variance is we're going to put a roof over the front porch I'm sitting there at the street looking going what are they doing yeah well we're just replacing the decking cuz it's starting to rot so we're going to put composite decking down put a roof over it that's really what we're doing here for the variant kind of like the other application where the ice was falling down on the head you know I hope not yeah that's not happening to us well on your neighbor down the street did it with pillars it looks like and uh on the other side of the road there's a 19 yeah oh okay yeah yeah so I don't have any problem I have no problem it's not out of character no is any body that want to speak on this Ray you want to speak on this one no okay do you drive by it all the time come on by okay um can I have a motion to close the public hearing so all those in favor I public hearing is closed um I will make a motion that we uh Grant a variance to prent the construction of a roof over a pre-existing garage as noticed for 12 the garage 12 12 Rock 12 Rock Ledge Road in Katona um doing so we believe will not U cannot be done in any other way it's feasible to the applicant there'll be no undesirable change to the character of the neighborhood or detriment to nearby properties the variance requested is not substantial the variance requested will not result in an adverse or physical environmental effect on the neighborhood or Community the alleged difficulty is self-created um but um that's just one of our factors to considering a fairly in this case fairly D Minimus um if it approved you will uh use your best effort efforts to ensure that a building permit is issued within one year um of the approval and then diligently pursue that to construction to completion the applicant you'll uh you'll then have to submit a certified as built survey including building and impervious

coverage calculations to the building department prior to the issuance of a CFO but I I would wait and do all of that with the other work that you're already planning on doing on the house itself anyway okay so Peter you you put in there the the roof over the legal front porch right yes okay yes it's as it's noticed strictly as it's noticed okay I also heard earlier you said Rock lege one word but on our tax forums it is two words but on the street it's it's one word yeah yeah I don't know where that came from yeah I put two Google our system way if you Google two it doesn't show up if you Google it as one word it shows up it shows up on uh on navigation I'll so technically my ta I don't pay the taxes of the Rock Ledge is that what it is because it's two different words locations you want pay two tax could next time you're you're in Kona go to the um um post office and ask the post off postmaster what they have because that's what the legal you know when people send you stuff and that's we need to finish the vote we have a vote do you have a second second well wait a minute plans hold on the plans I show are um June 9th 2024 and last Revis on August 27th 2024 sounds good thank you um agreed last Revis January janary January 3rd 23rd 23rd 23 25 yeah2 23rd 225 we'll use that okay thank you and that was Roger second yeah Roger second Mr Stern yes M Lee yes Mr van Len yes Miss Black yes Mr mallis yes you got it thank you pick up your extra copies so you won't need them life is simple you'd be surprised when you do need them though well that's the key is Al coming back yeah I think he just went to go lock up the doors and stuff so thank you no

because I I want I wanted to no right he was speak he spoke on that oh he spoke on that thank you guys thank you the chairman you want to talk about this no problem takes a while I know it's you know I know it I well I don't really know can I have that one you know I know a little bit more I I and it's frustrating I okay but before you get down especially because it's pre-existing Rosemary has indicated that she can't be here on the 3 is there any way we can we can move the meeting to the 12th do so I mean the second the second the day before Wednesday the second does that work for everybody that should be fine okay I will smooth does that work for you I have to go back and look at my C okay I don't have an you you look at your calendar yeah it works for me too I'm good for it you're good for it okay so find so find out if that works and then yeah we'll put out an email so Rosemary Rosary Kim it works for everybody but Rosemary will let us know if it works for her tomorrow the second tomorrow moving so you'll let me know tomorrow and if it's good for Rosemary on the second we're moving it to Second if not we'll just keep it the third is that what we'll do yes yeah um hey R thank you com I wanted to ask a question next time bring some Li next time bring some Libations everybody knows wa question could you return your C because Mr van Len has a question for you no not a question I'm just wondering going back to the generator application tonight so that that discrepancy right I me it in the we found the discrepancy no I understand no we found older resolution there was an older resolution with Mr M

going back and for 24 Point left so it's not that much of a jump oh okay so here I put it at at the top here's the old one so what happened was what was confusing is that the person who gave it in I guess was the contractor and he gave in the 18% so showed it that it was under this older one it is right right making I think uh so so it goes back in 200 what year was that 12 oh so it was an old yeah 12 12 so old data it was old data and and and it was it was given a variance for 24.6 so you really did so you didn't get that big of a difference but my question is then in the process do I mean you looked at that data too and you followed that or I'm just trying to I'm just wondering didn't see the old one the see the old one at the time that application came in and that's why it was in there okay so it they already had a variance but the numbers they gave me were less so were less so we don't know if they had removed something or whatever but I mean and remember what we had discussed before this is a situation there was multiple things on here yeah before so they were given that variance yeah when somebody comes in and gives it less you don't know what they've done in the field what they've done you know to minimize there's no rule against nothing against the electrician but there's no rule against a contractor filling in the data because what are they B supposed to a professional remember what we yeah I I know what you're saying but if it's just for the generator as I brought up to everybody in December and everybody agreed that we would not ask for coverages right if they were just for an emergency generator or for utility something just for that needed to be there and then it just pops up the end you're not asking for that data anymore because it's not really fair to the homeowner either right because a lot of times you're asking just for a generator so the homeowner now is going to give

you what they're going to try to give you all the data and there it's always going to be wrong anyway and in this case she came for a setback so we would have asked for a setback as built and not coverages exactly she just came before we made that change so in in essence our maybe our next step should be then if if there is a next step if we want to to ask for changes in the in the zoning that like up to what is it generator path 8 square ft so up to maybe 10 square feet is is is is exempt it's like a even if it went over right even if the even if 20% was 2500 and you added 10% would wouldn't we want that cushion then to even avoid having to um let that 10 10 square foot tank should have tanks above well and doing stuff like this also C I mean it caught it caught an an error there should have been a coverage variance granted at the time they got the the variance here for that generator there was an error in their submission and even this there is still a discrepancy between what was previously proved and the generator and granted now it captures the generator but the idea is we want to make sure they're capturing all the data now the the question is did they when you submit the applications do they have to check and see if there are prior variances or do they rely simply on us on you guys to do the searches they rely on us you do the searches for it yeah let's say they're a new owner they would they may not have the record in this case individual submitted a different thing that kind of threw it all you know I heard what Roger said about who's doing the calculations if it's the generator you know installation group they're all over town they're doing so many and you know shouldn't we expect the right calculations from them no this is okay let's start over again because if you're only doing a generator

I don't think it's fair to ask that the contractor who's doing a generator go and do all coverages so now it's up to the board if the board wants them to hire a surveyor for each application for emergency generators that's up to you if it is a inclusive if it's something that is more than just a generator the architect the design professional is giving us the the that's why we tried to make end up with an ASU survey because we asked for yes asking for an asilt survey for just yes but we do ask sets now if it's just a generator we agreed that they just give us setbacks and no coverages yeah because it's a a utility is needed no matter what I understand but but this came up with the oil tank at the end of the year but the expense for an ASU survey and that process was and coming to the board back to the board was made anyway so I'm saying if we if an as survey is required then it should have been done this is only happening if there's a setback issue right forget forget about coverages if I come to you with just a generator and I have an issue because we have a code here that states that in the front you need the full setback regardless sides and rear you can do oneir I I I get it what I'm saying okay listen all I'm trying to say is if you'd like to go back to what you did before then we're going to just for generator then we're going to have to ask for coverages so people are going to have to pay you saw how many people complained if it's just for that we're only asking for the setback and then the the survey is coming back only for the setback not coverages for utilities so how did this survey come back with coverages because this was done prior to that this was Prior this is when you asked for coverages we just did this in dece got it got it got it got it got it got it got it that's right we did it

have to draw I see what happens when I'm not here what are you guys going to do no we no she you're right we what we agreed to was on on a generator we would just have the surveyor make sure that it the setbacks that they it fit the right place that issue of them screwing up the counts exactly so if they're just getting a generator F out a building permit and they they're not submitting anything if there's no setback issue save them 700 bucks on a full here I say save them on underground tanks because I don't count that towards Z okay Al let me straighten let me hear straight with if there are setbacks it will come to the board yes if there are no setbacks and it's just the coverage and just the generator just the generator then it's a building permit cor I remember there was one that you did I think it was January and I think you did it and I stopped you when you were going to ask for the um the um no no no no you did the As bill for the setback but I stopped on the coverages because I reminded everybody what we had agreed on December and it's just if there's no setback and it's just a permit for the generator it's going through the building department and not to the variance oh no no of course just like any other application it's going through just as if they have a setback issue we only deal with the setback and when you ask for an asbo just ask for the for the setback to be verified that they need what ex so when they I'm trying to follow when they when they get their permit that the generating through your depart dep what paperwork do they have to submit after the installation to your building department records well when they give us in most cases it's far behind the line so if we can tell where it is did they do did they do an asille they give it no no not if they're if they're well within the setbacks if there's a question of the setback then we make them get an ASO but when they show it to us they give us an old site plan old survey and they show us that

they're back enough right so they we Grant calculate coverage or anything like that they just use okay that as long as we understand what's going on with that generators are going in through the building yeah okay can I have a motion to close the to close the public hearing so moved we were we're we're we're adjourned if you want to continue this conversation I think we want to make no for