Planning and Zoning Meeting - Regular Meeting

And just, you know, you have the right to say that. Yeah. Well, and I always ask like, "Hey, are you planning on doing an Airbnb?" No, it's not. Yeah. Exactly. You know, and it's I want to know. It's my city. It's in my area. I want to know. Okay. Yeah. No, definitely. Yeah, those guys. We got the whole family. We're missing We're missing. Yeah, Moife. I got to do that. I was assuming he was coming. You want to go? Good evening and welcome to the Bay St. Louis planning and zoting meeting of June 11th, 2025. We ask that you please silence all cell phones and electronics at this time. Um we're going to begin with a short prayer in the pledge of allegiance in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Father in heaven, we invite you to preside over this meeting. Give us unity of spirit even when our opinions differ. Help us to listen politely to other points of view and to remember that we are all a part of the same community. Direct our thoughts, words, decisions, and actions toward the right path in the best

interest of our city. We ask this in your name. Amen. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America to the stands nation for all. Okay. Um, 299 Second Street LLC has been withdrawn if anybody was here for that. But our first item on the agenda is a motion to approve the minutes of May 14th, 2025. Is there a motion? I'll move it. Motion by Mr. Ag. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Romano. All those in favor? I I I. Motion passes. First application is steel application for variance to the zoning ordinance submitted by Susan Steckle. The applicants want to demolish the existing dwelling and construct a new dwelling on the property. The applicants are requesting a 15t variance resulting in a 10-ft setback to the front yard. The property is located at 259 Washington Street, parcel number 149M-2-30-105.0000 275 Third W St. Louis and is zoned R2 residential two family district. Yes, sir. Go ahead. My name is John Ebizoo Senior. I represent Miss Steckle. Uh she lives in Memphis and um I I reside at 315 Hoffman Lane in Wel and I also represent Procon Management and we'll be building a new house. Um, currently the the existing house has been there since 1935 and it exists uh 9 ft from the front uh property line at about 4t from the west and about 17 18 ft from the north. We have proposed that the house will be in

compliance more in compliance than the existing structure which has been approved for demolition through the historical committee which I And um so we plan to demolish the house, reset the new house, which is a little bit bigger. This house, by the way, the existing house is about 700 square ft. Uh the new house is going to be in complian compliance over 750 ft plus a porch. And uh we plan to set it back 10 ft from the front. That's why the 15t bearing at request on the front. And it'll be 8 ft from the left, which is the west, and 20 foot six from from the rear. So, it's in more in compliance than it is now. Um the option to renovate the house was was explored and that's been basically quashed. It's just beyond repair. So, with that in mind, uh she's decided to build and uh we gave her a price and she's happy with that. We'd like to start as soon as possible. She's already put the plans in for uh permit. She's getting under review. She's already spent effort half the money just to make sure she gets it. We've lost four weeks to ask for a variance has been there since 1935. It's kind of kind of a ridiculous request to ask for a variance when it's already non in compliance now. We could have renovated the house, but so the request is not unusual. all the properties in that block. Uh, of the 15 or so properties on that side of the block, the 60 foot wide uh properties, most of them are 10 ft or less away from their front property. There are some that are newer houses that were set back to 15, but none of 25. And if we don't get this variance, you'll have to rent me a variance for the rear to push it back. So I have to get a variant one way or the other. If

you give the 15 15 foot bear to the front and I have no place to go, right? Any comments or questions from the commissioners? Did we have anyone signed up to speak or do your name and address. Brian Schneider, 108 Third Street in the Bay. Uh, I have no objection to the variance because it does line up with everything else on Washington Street, but I just like to for the record ask the question whether this will be a residence or a rental and if it's a rental, whether it be long-term or short-term. That's it. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. M. Steel, who is my client, is definitely going to make it her residence. He lives in Memphis. U she's a widow twice and is longing to come back to Bay St. Louis. She used to come to this house as a child and she's got every intention to own this house and not rent it. And I uh Miss Warner, did you want to speak on this application? I am very pleased that they're going to do something. This has been the neighborhood eyesore for years. It has been so they at least pulled all the dead stuff off. It was completely covered with all kinds of vegetation. So, and actually the the 10-ft uh frontage is pretty much what it is right now. They're basically going to redo, but where the building sits right now is very close to the road and it pretty much lines up with everything else in Washington. So, all for it. If there's no other comments or questions from the commissioner to the audience from Mr. Bazoo, would you Are

you here for steel? Do you want to speak? He's like, "Nope, [Laughter] Martin, you can sit down." Martin. Uh, so we will be more in compliance because we'll be 10 foot instead of N. It exists right now. 9 ft. Yes. And um, well, I'll entertain I'll make a motion. Motion by Mr. Cranky. Is there a second? Second by Mr. Romano. All those in favor? I I I I Motion passes. Thank you very much. Please be present at the next city council meeting, Tuesday, June 17th at 5:30 p.m. Okay. The next application is Murphy application for a variance to the parking requirements of the zoning ordinance submitted by Christina Murphy. The applicant intends to demolish the existing building and construct a new building. The applicant is requesting to be allowed 9 foot by 18t parking spaces to the required parking space size of 10T by 20T for new business construction. The property is located at 1151 highway 90 partial 137L-35-00007.00 0 part second Bay St. Louis. The property is zoned C3 Highway commercial business district. Yes, ma'am. Go ahead. Yes. Christina Murphy, 5823 Marin Street, New Orleans, Louisiana. Um, like the paper said, I'm requesting a variance for the parking lot sizes to be 9 by8 instead of the regular 10 by 20. I just bought this lot maybe a month ago, and I intend to build a laundromat on it. Um, and the lot, the shape of the lot is a little bit awkward. um you know it's got three it's surrounded by three streets and then there's a 25 foot set back from the highway so then that you know makes the the lot even smaller um so it really limits the size of the building I can build if I have to do the 10 by 20 versus the 9 by8 the 9 by8 really does give me a significant amount

more space to do just a little bit more of the building um and that's that's really it that's really all I'm requesting and just so everyone knows 9 foot by 18 foot is a standard parking size space that just city of Bay St. over time has increased to 10 foot by 20 because there's so many larger pickup trucks and stuff like here. Um so if there's any questions for Miss Murphy from the commissioners. Um I do have Wait, can I just make a comment? Yes, sir. The standard F-150 is between 17.4T and 20.5 ft. So you would preclude proper parking for the most popular vehicle manufactured in the country. That seems to me like a recipe for unhappiness. Not greatness. Yeah, I actually um we did talk about this with my contractor and the laundromat's goal is to be about 50% wash and fold. And there's actually a drive-thru on the layout if you look at it. So while there's not a lot of parking, even if we do the full size 10 by 10 by 20, I can only fit five, which is the minimum requirement for the number of machines that I'd like. I still can only fit five even if I do 9 by8. But again, the goal is to have most of the business be like drive-thru wash and fold. So I'm I'm comfortable um with my business plan to limit the parking sizes to forego, you know, for more wash and fold business versus self-s service. But if your lots are only 18t deep and somebody shows up with a Ford F-150, they won't be able to park there or they'll have to take much space. Well, you can't make the truck shorter. Right. Right. The way the architect has it laid out

right now, they would all be the same size. That would include one um handicap parking, but they'd all be 9 by8. What's the What's the backup distance from the parking like from the space between spaces? It's there's 25 ft in between because there's four regular on one and then there's handicap on the other and in between is a full 25. You can do that. That'll work. Even if they stick out a little bit, that'll work. Um I don't and I would just like to say like I know sometimes we have site plans come in with variances and stuff before they started spending money on this. I said you know I had grave concern that I know traditionally parking variance like it 315 Main Street. It was originally they had two parking variances. either we get you the 20 by 10 parking spots or we can make them smaller and get 23 parking spots if that required. And I want to say y'all, this commission, not y'all individually, said, you know, we'd prefer the parking size over the amount of parking spaces because anybody remembers back then. So before she started spending money on it, I was like, make sure you have the park, you would be able to get that granted and then if not alter then you can alter plans from it. I mean, I still agree with that sentiment. I rather her get the business the business be the best that it can be and the right size. It's not too tight in, you know, St. Louis is one of the only cities that has not the 10 by 20 is wave. I don't I mean, I'd understand if it was like a downtown business and new and tons of parking, but with the way people in and out such a mixed schedule. It's not like a set amount of time that not everyone's going to go at 9:00 a.m. to wash, you know, wash their clothes.

So, it probably in and out more flexible. And I know you can make it that that the turning radius having that much backup space. In addition to that, right? Yeah. Gotcha. Um, I did not have anybody sign up to speak, but if there's anybody in the audience that would like to speak for against the application, you're welcome. Um, I'll entertain a motion. There's no other question. There's been a motion to deny. Is there a second? Second by Mr. AG. Is uh all in favor? I I nay I So uh motion passes and the application fails for two no 3 to 2. So but please be present at the next city council meeting that's Tuesday June 17th at 5:30 p.m. and it'll be in this room. Okay. Thank you. Okay. 299 Street has been withdrawn. The last application is Tero application for variance to the zoning ordinance submitted by Shane Tero. The applicant has constructed an 8 foot privacy fence. The applicant is requesting a variance of 2 feet to the fence height requirement resulting in an 8oot fence. The property is located at 321 St. George Street, parcel 149F-29-17.0000, part 375 First Bay, St. Louis. The property zone R2 residential two family district. And just before I get started, I just I think seen off the packet somewhere. Just to be clear, and we've had this in the past, the looking like she only The fence is already constructed. So, if y'all have pictures in there, it's already an eight. It's

with an 8 foot an unpermitted 8 foot fence. I think you already I think I've seen everybody. They have a lot of exhibit, but it's a it's a full I'm sorry. You can put your name and address for us. Shane Tero 321 St. George Street. I reside there. That's my residence. That's not a Airbnb or anything like that. We're there all the time. Um, so I had a 6oot fence previous to the addition of the of the making an 8, right? And it wasn't intentionally an 8ft fence. I just went around with a tape measure. If you look at all of the the documents I sent, I just went around with a tape measure seeing whose windows can see inside my fence or inside my home or inside my windows or you know or whatnot. And I just came up with a number and decided to go that high. So So just the louvered part is two feet. It's the louvered part. The louvered part is two feet. Yes. And some places are like 7 foot 4 in. Some places are 7 foot n in. It's not 8 foot all the way across the board. Right. And when did you construct this fence? Probably about a month ago. Okay. More or less a month ago. So it's part of it. You constructed the the the add-on the add-on. So I had so I had a really to start with I had a really ranky dink, you know, wooden fence with 4x4s every 10 feet. That was just about fallen, right? It was it was the lap of So I'm like, well, I need a little privacy, but I also need to reinforce this. So I went back with 4x sixes. the gray portion. That's the original fence, the gray. But this is all yours. That's correct. And you've added levers all the way around. That's not your name. Yes, ma'am. They have a picture of it on there as well. Um I um I'm sorry. Any questions first for Mr. Terry? So the gray is actually six foot. The gray is actually six foot or maybe even five less than six foot. It may be even less. And that was kind of rinky dink, you

know? It was it would it would blow in the wind, right? Let me go and show maybe you could show them what it looks like. Now this is his house, right? That's the privacy and that was right. Right. Yeah, that's And it's not it's not obstructing any view or you probably only see about vehicle wise, you know, you probably only see about 12 foot of the fence to be honest with you. The front the front section is all you're ever going to see is is the front is that one front section from the street, right? But that front section from the street is an important section because directly across, if you read the notes, directly across the street from me, that's a house with a twotory window, right? And again, I have women and children and everyone swimming in my pool, playing the backyard, and and these people sometimes they in that window just staring out the window, sometimes they not, right? And I have a sixoot fence, but my house is elevated two feet and my neighbor's house is elevated two feet, which realistically makes it a four, right? So when there when they're when they're on their porch, they can see inside, see everywhere, you know, I just I like my and I think it's beautiful, you know, the way I constructed it. I went I so I rode around town and if you look at some of the pictures of other 8ft fences within just a couple of blocks of me. Uh mine's probably the best looking 8oot fence you're going to see. Right. I looked around trying to get ideas. You know, I try to get ideas and that's what I ended up with. So I'm your neighbor, Mr. Tero, and I noticed it and do you on him? Who? I didn't. Yeah. Was it you? This is what I heard at 8:00 in the morning and my wife said, "Did you prove that?" I said, "No, must

be and I don't find it objectionable." And and to be honest, I just I just figured I had I had I had the fence footprint already and I saw all the fences around the neighborhood. I'm like, you know what? I'll throw it up in a week and and it's not personable. I agree. It it looks very nice. I'm just so against a foot and I do intend to paint it. I understand, you know, but listen, and I and I understand that you're against it, but when I'm on my back porch, I know we have back. Yeah. Privacy and my back door neighbor actually said, "I'm so glad you're doing this because when I'm on my back porch, you can see me. I can see you. I don't want to see everybody. We used to have a big line of trees, right? Like all kind of trees and all different things. And my neighbor ended up and that being said, I did have some letters that several people signed in support." Yes, ma'am. That's all neighbors, most all my neighbors down my street. Let me read the letter and then I'll read to you everybody who signed it. It said, "I'm signing this letter to address the recent addition of a two-foot extension to the fence at 321 St. George. I believe this enhancement not only provides additional privacy, but also significant significantly contributes to the overall aesthetic appeal of the property. The extension has been thoughtfully designed and constructed to complement the existing surroundings, adding a decorative element that enhances the beauty of the entire yard. Once painted, this addition will further integrate into the landscape, creating a more polished and cohesive appearance that adds value to the property and the neighborhood as a whole. Um, Miss Miss Catherine Lozano, that's my neighbor right across the street. Loan Tammy 121 Ingman Doug Netherland 319 St. George. My neighbor right here, James Kimble, 121 Ingman, Lloyd Budro, 408 St. George, and Scott Leo, 500, uh, Riverview Drive, and Shane Leblanc, 137 Main Street. Um, I do have some signed up to speak as well.

Mr. Netherland, did you want to come up and say something? And those those individuals that signed that those papers, I handed them this packet. So they so and I didn't know if you guys got it. So I brought a bunch of them and what I did was I hand them the packet after they look the packet. All right. Thank you. Because I didn't expect anyone writing their own letter. You know, appreciate you talking to your neighbors. Good evening. I'm Doug Netherland, 319 St. George. Shane and I actually share a driveway to our parking spot together. I car uh but uh I was there under the construction. He was out of he was out of country. So I watched this guy build fence and he did have a hard time shoring the old what he's talking about to that old fence up to make everything fit good and and and withstand wind and all that. So, this fence is very well built and I can tell you from expansion walking in his back door, it actually was my sore because he has a neighbor that has a storage uh facility in the back that was real highly needed to be replaced. But, you know, that's me personally, we didn't see that. But, they've done a very good job and I'm all in favor of it. Don't have a problem with Thank you, Madam Um, Mr. Bob Gowen. Gen. Yes, sir. Good evening. Bob Gan, 327 St. George. Ironically, I was passing by the house. I'm right down the street and I was passing by his house and I stopped by. I said, "Look at this. How nice it looks." He He really did a good job in putting it extra two feet uh put by the two extra dollars in it. And All I can say I have no objections whatsoever and I

think it adds to the overall appearance of the neighborhood plus gives him privacy and his name is privacy. Okay. Uh Lloyd Budro 408 St. George I pass by that almost every day two or three times a day. Not only accents but it's security too. Short as I am I can reach up you know get get on thumb fence a six foot f I can't do that you know so um the only thing I'm saying is is I don't have a problem with it. Uh I like thank you very much. Um anyone else I would like to speak for again? Yeah, that's tero. Yeah. On you that maybe you might have looked at an ordinance and ask permission ahead of time. I did not. I I you know we've been looking at this and I'm like I just I I need to do this and and again drove around looking at all the other fences. I'm like well everybody else got one. I'm going to put one up too. And not to just go say and then it's something we hear in the building department all the time. He is from South Louisiana and not every municipality requires people to get building permits for fences. There's some that don't even require four per pools or roofs either unless you're doing a wholeation. We have to get and I live in the country. I got 15 acres of not to say like obviously it's wrong, but they're like legitimately pleading the ignorance. Actually, sometimes it's like we never had to do this where we live. And I'm like, I looked it up and they're they're not lying. They really don't. The thing of it is is everybody in B St. Louis basically wants privacy. You you get so many people who come in here who say that they want a 8ft fence.

I want a 8ft fence, but I mean it's just our bylaws, you know. Um it is definitely I like the addition, but it's like to me if we go and say like this is okay. Everybody else who wants a eight foot fence, everybody else who wants privacy, everyone else who doesn't want to look at their neighbors or whatever, they're gonna want the same thing. You know, I'm gonna ask question. I mean, I hate to do that, but there's so many there's so many people who had, you know, had to cut down, you know, those two feet before we've had that happen. I mean, there's multiple Who's been here with a stop work order? I mean, did you was good for what about all the ones that already existing? If I have to take mine down. So, if I take mine out, all of these addresses that I listed, will we go back and ensure that each one of these other fences are torn down? Well, what you're going to hear is, you know, I'm just asking those may have been approved. We approved one two months ago. I don't know. Yeah. The ordinance that we're operating from now, it's 2017, but 2010 is when it was pretty much originally adopted. I don't know what the ordinance was previous from 2010. Today, it might have been pre-existing non-conforming. I don't know. Yeah. I have no idea. I mean, and you know, and and again, I'm not even trying to make it about eyes, but if you if you ride down my street, you look at my neighbor's house, I'm telling you, I agree that it's a goodlook 8ft fence. It's an 8 foot fence, right? Not allowed. Straight up. The issues that you brought up, privacy and everything else is the same issue that every other property owner in the

city has. If you want privacy, you go to the kill or you go to rural Hancock County. The nature of the beast is that if you're going to live in the city, you're going to give up a certain amount of privacy. I'm pretty sure that when you bought the property, you looked across the street, you saw that there was a two-story house there. You probably looked to the other side and you said, "Hey, I can see the windows." So, while I'm sympathetic and I think you've done a really nice job, it ain't allowed. And it's not allowed for a reason because if we let this one go, suddenly we're going to have eight foot fences in the entire city and it's going to look like that game you used to play with the kid with the corn fields, you know. So, so what do we do about the other one other eight? Well, that is something that I think needs to be brought up with the city, but I mean today we're like ruling on this one, you know, and I and it's not fair. And like I said, I everybody wants a eight foot fence, you know, like it's just it's privacy. I literally live on Washington. There's F-150s passing around my house all the time. I can't walk out into my backyard or do anything without somebody probably looking over my, you know, fence. I have a six foot fence. It It's unfortunate, but like you said, if you live in a city, that's kind of the rule of the game. Yeah. I honestly I never really, again, I live in the country. I never lived in the city before. I've never lived downtown before. I never lived anywhere before. I have a format on, you know, if I need a fence, I build a fence. I I I I mean, I just, like I said, it wasn't even about the 8 foot. I just went with a tape measure and looked and see what I had to do. Yes. Can you come up to the mic and stand just so we can hear you if you don't mind? I have a prophecy issue, too.

What criteria does the commission use on approving one or not approving one? I don't approve any. What what I mean that's pick and choose. So I Well, I can answer one thing because I recently got a fence built. So when I went and asked for approval to build this fence that I just built probably in December, I was presented with a book because I even asked the same thing. Why can't I have a eight foot fence? Right. They presented me with a book. What is the name of the book? It's the No, it's the zoning ordinance. It's a But it's also a book that also says that in certain cities in Mississippi, because I read it, that you cannot exceed over a sixoot fence. And we are one of those uh cities who adopted that ordinance. It's uh certain structures and what else? Yeah. In there. Yeah. So what? So she wanted an eight foot fence like she did so bad and she looked at the rules and says I in my backyard I can have a sixfoot and she's like well it's my front yard set back that I got to say like she I and I sympathize. I I don't want to make it seem like I don't feel for you. I literally put the city through so much stuff trying to prove why I should have a 8oot fence and they came back and slapped me back to back with everything. There's like no way getting around it. And like I said, I just feel like it would be so unfair for us to go and say it's okay and then they have the city has their own bylaws and we have to uphold those. I hear what you're saying, but I know it's unfair. As a resident, I just think that's kind of unfair. I'm not saying right or wrong for him. You can support some and deny others. And and that's the same thing. get some consistency disapprove all of them or approve all of them. And just just for the record and think for anybody this is

a recommendation body. So it's this is the public hearing so everybody could have to input and obviously the city council is going to go listen to this and see notes that they have people of support and they may or may not send it to a recommendation of approval or denial. But the city council is actually the one that is a yes or no. This is a recommendation body plus the public hearing. So, next Tuesday when it goes before city council, I hate to speak off term, but I feel as if there's been times where it has been denied here and overturned at city council. And I'm not vice versa. I'm not saying, you know, you're right or wrong. I'm just saying trying to get some consistency and understanding and I understand your situation. Okay. It was so hard she got on the board. Shoot. It's like I'm changing. Yeah. I And I was on the board when this whole thing was happening. Like I said, I feel for you, but and they put me through stuff and I'm here. I get it. I understand. If there's no other uh comments or Yes, ma'am. Miss Warner. Oh, were you signed up? Yeah. Go ahead. There's an easy answer. It's called a green fence. You can plant bamboo, you can plant ily agnus, there's all kinds of shrubs you can plant. Then you have a solid fence. You have beautiful greenery. You're cleaning the air. So that's plant a green fence. A fast growing one, right? How tall can I plant? It's tall. As tall as it wants to grow. She can get he can get topiaries. There's nothing against tok the you know on Cena. Yeah. Bamboo is a problem. Yeah. Well, that's

so actually my neighbors in the back they had bamboo and they came and they they got got rid of all bamboo because it just it's just so bad. It goes in the yard. It it goes all over. But I mean, I I already feel the way this is going and and and I'm sorry about that, but I feel like I built the best beautiful It is. It is a nice possibly get and and and I guess it really if it doesn't go through, it really upsets me that that there's others with, right? And and that's the thing, right? So, I think I guess that's that's the biggest deal, right? Because when I wrote around looking how to do this, I saw some and I'm like, I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like it. Here's my beautifification idea what I'm going to do, right? And it looks lovely. Absolutely lovely. And once I paint it white, it is going to be beautiful. So, that's all I got. That's all I have. You know, thank you. I would ask for your support, but you know where I go. Um, I'll entertain a motion. I'll make a motion to deny. Motion to deny by Mr. Ag. Is there a second? Second. Second by M All those in favor? Nay. I I I 3 to two. So, the application fails, but please be present in the next city council meeting, Tuesday, June 17th, 5:30 p.m. And that will be in this room as well. June 17th. Yes, sir. Next. Next Tuesday. Next Tuesday. Um, the last agenda item is a motion to adjourn. Is there a motion? I'll make a motion. Motion by Mr. Cranky. Is there a second? Second by Mr. Romano. All those in favor? I I I