Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

All right, welcome everybody to the town of Batesburg Leville work session for the planning commission. Today is February 16th, 126. It is 638 uh here at town hall complex 12 West Church Street. We've already done roll call and we are going to discuss the new business uh for amending the ordinance to allow tattoo parlors in C1 general commercial zoning district as a permitted principal use and structure. This is not a voting session. This is just a discussion to figure out where we can put them and we will put this on the next agenda. I feel confident we can come to a conclusion. It's currently in industrial correct is the location.

So Rachel has brought up what type of restrictions there may be. We want to follow those restrictions.

Typically with restrictions that I've seen when reviewing other town ordinances and again we can create a recommendation on what we think is best for our town. We don't have to copy and paste from other towns which is what a lot of this already is and why it doesn't actually work for Batesburg. Um, if you want to have restrictions, typically you have restrictions on how many can be within a certain distance of each other. If you don't want to have like 10 tattoo parlors all in the same, you know, 20 acre or 20 yard strip, um, it's really whatever you would want to regulate. I am generally fine with it moving to commercial and out of industrial. Um, I think it makes sense. I just do think there should be regulations on how many can be in a certain area, hours of operation.

That's a good point. Um, you know, like they should probably not be 24hour locations, maybe close at 11 p.m. or something like that. I think we should also look at putting some restrictions on vape shops because there's nothing in that currently for our ordinances. And I think we have five of them. Yeah, we got a lot of them. Yeah. And they're pretty unsightly. Two. Three. Terrible for your health. One more. One at the KJ's and then one at the just three. I think I think they're four maybe. And are they operating? No, they do not operate 24. I think they close at like 10 or 11. Is that a a restriction? Is it actually written somewhere?

No. Just good business practices for a vape shop not to be open after after midnight, I guess. So, do we want to is that something we want to talk about is restricting the hours? Well, I think addressing that focus on tattoo parlors for now, but it's something we might want to address. Yeah.

Well, it's it's not the tattoo thing. You know, when Tom was still at uh the city of Columbia Fire Department, one of the fellas there was really into tattoos and he did it body art. Of course, they had to keep it all covered up. he couldn't have it exposed. But he had always went to Augusta because at that time there was no place in Colombia that you could that even allowed um tattoo farmers. We need one hand so my wife won't do them. And that's the good thing too about tattoo parlor is they're all regulated by DX. So

that was my next question. That's the other that's and that's which is why I would like to get them moved out of industrial and into commercial because we don't want Joe out right outside of town limits having a tattoo shop in his garage basically and you know somebody's close but and can service people in and around the area then that would make things a lot better and

and I think that's a question we need to put out there too to the the public to get a general census. You know, is there a big opposition to it? To my knowledge, not. Like I said, I think it's a a lot more accepted than it used to be. Did you say they would allow them to be in like a strip thing like at Walmart that is an empty place over there? For which one? For the tattoo part. For the tattoo department. Right now. No. Okay. Right now they can't. They'd have to go to the industrial part. I got you. Yeah, industrial is where you put your least desirable um classification. Okay. And that's typically where they stick like uh tattoo parlors, smoke shops, and

adult sexually oriented businesses. Yeah. Um I think tattoo parlors are probably higher than like smoke shops, you know, in my opinion. And if we wanted to, it' probably be smart to regulate tattoo and piercing parlors under the same same category. Yeah, from what I read too, they can't have um when it's a tattoo parlor, it can only be tattoos and body piercings. I don't think they can have other uh like run two different right in in there. It has to be strictly tattoos and body piercings.

That way was over there in front of you. They don't tattoos, but they're not required to do. They just do it. They go hand in hand. But yeah, it is kind of like similar clientele, similar um service. It looked like something written down. Yeah, I've got it. I'm glad that um that's a good thing. You helped us out.

Yeah. Johnny said, and I I could be mistaken, but she thought across from the um police department at one time, you know, where they what was his attention? I just thought it it made it look like a right where's a little dino was that diner shop, the one that was all painted outside. Yes, that's where it was. Just to interject, Riley asked the question or somebody asked the question, um should we write something up? Uh Jay was prepared at the end of this work session if you guys have something written up to get that on the agenda for council. Okay.

What are the hours of operation that we want to set for testing parlors within commercial district? I think what they're saying since you go to them what hours typically I mean I go to 8:00 in the morning but right so they do I mean they are early. They can. It just depends on on what the the owner wants. I mean, in essence, I mean, something like 10 o'clock at night. I mean, yeah. I mean, closing time would be more probably critical than the open. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody want to do it at 6:00 a.m. That's on them. But, yeah, but I would think the latest I think would be 10:00. That's what I thought. Yeah. I'd say midnight.

Midnight. Somebody's getting off from work. They're paying for a 6-hour session. Oh, I don't even know how long. Typically what they do is there's a and there's an hour session. What's what's going around now? It's an hour two, four, six hour sessions that you're paying for and you can't do more than it depends on the person. Mhm. Cuz everybody apply your ex different. But this was an hour session.

This was a hour. I think this one was an hour and a half, but one of my No, this was an hour. One of my cap was a miserable one, but that was a twohour one cuz I mean it's a tree of life and they did a lot of shading and stuff like that. Well, my my first thought is I don't know about um so late in the evening, but you know how many people do a six-hour session? Is that pretty common nowadays? Oh, yeah. Is it? Mhm. I mean, well, the other thing too is if they're in commercial districts, you

let's say let's let's use Walmart for instance. If they they go over here and they opening in Walmart or whatever, there's nobody around. So, I don't I mean, I guess that that's going to be my question or that potentially be a question that I would think. How who how many people is it going to bother with them being I mean obviously if they're jamming out the music just depends on depends on the artist obviously because I went to Tatwway and he didn't play Reggie Against the Machine or you know just crazy music like he he played soothing music um I say soothing but I mean I mean more I mean it was it was music

it was it was new it was newer age music or whatever and it was kind of mellow it wasn't the headbanging you know rock and all that stuff, but I think the noise ordinance would apply to that anyway. So, so how many people would it how many people would it affected if they were in a commercial district? Well, there are some that are closing at 8 and there are some that are closing like at 10. Yeah, I think 10's the happy medium. I think if everything closing at 10, then I guess I mean I'm see what time I guess what time to

the drinking places they have to close at 11. So if we're going to say that, I would say definitely we should make it 11:00 open till 2 in the morning. According to this, the hours of operation shall be no later than 11:00 p.m. when such establishment is located within 600 ft of a residential zone. Oh, okay. So, are we going to put stipulations on on it as far as residential? I mean, if they were to go in Walmart, obviously they're pretty dependent on where they were to go. Yeah. Was dependent on

on that 600 ft, too. If we were to go kind of with the same provision that they have in here for public drinking places and is it the 600 ft from door to door or from door to you know like the church that's one of the problems with alcohol it says when such establishment is located so I would go from the closest to the lot line I would say the the closest let's say for over there the building each building is its on individual property per se like cuz that's what it is on uh Oak Street and u it's a property line street it is Oak Street.

Do we have to define that in the ordinance? I I think we go too I don't think we need to go super super deep in that because then you start you're going to have to look at every other every other ordinance we have and go through and start all right well like for public drinking places the hours of operation whatever PM site is located within 600 ft of a residential zone then we're going to say from the closest wall to the residential or you know you have to go in there and start adding in all kinds the verbiage if we started doing the church is from property line to property line if I remember right

that one being spelled out I just knew it had to be 600 ft did you work on this for the want to do a proposal the hours of operation shall be no later than 11:00 p.m. and shall not begin before 4 a.m. 4 a.m. Well, that just kind of prevents them from like closing for an hour and then opening back up. I don't think that a tattoo artist on me at 4:00 in the morning, he might fall asleep. Yeah, they probably aren't going to start at 4:00 a.m. But if we set a an end, but we don't set a start. They could just close at 11, reopen at

1:00 a.m. or whatever, you know, 12:30 the next day. We could do 5 a.m. I have no strong preference on the distance between schools. I don't have it being I mean it's your body. Yeah. I don't I don't see there being I don't know then unless it was supposed to be have some kind of influence but see I would think the baking shops would have more of an influence agree then um and you have to have parents sign anyway if you're going to go get tattoo the THC stuff. So,

all right. Anything else you'all want to throw in there? So, you we want to put this on the next month's meeting, we want to open it to a public hearing. Absolutely. Well, did we want to send it? Well, what um Becky had said is if we got some verbiage together, he would put it on council's agenda, right? Goes to council agenda after we vote. Well, I think this is just a work stud. That's what I'm saying. That's right. We have to put it on our agenda for next month.

Move it to then that way once the verbiage is out there, we can tweak it anymore before our next meeting if we want to and vote on it. Yeah. And then if it passes then our vote, then it goes to council and council can say yay or nay. Sure. And we're done. Okay, we'll have to have two readings, but true, but it's out of our hands. It would be hands, right? So, yeah. So, let's uh I say we do that. I say we put it on next next month's agenda. Okay. And yeah, the planning board has accomplished a new ordinance. I'm so proud of y'all. New recommendation.

Right. Just get it to start. All right. I got Riley on getting through the purpose together. No, we won't. Um, all right. Are you all good on that? Everybody? Yeah. All right. Cool. Moving on to part B, review of the zoning ordinances, R1, R1A, R2, and R3. Now, I will go ahead and tell y'all that. Like I said in the email, we can discuss all of this much as we want, as little as we want, whatever y'all feel, but I'm cutting us at 8:00.

I don't care. Like, I love y'all. And I But I have not been home. I've had to work a lot here last several weeks, but cutting us off at 8:00. Plus, some other people have to go to work early early in the morning. And I get up at 4:00, go to work, good. I try I try to think of every time. Yeah. Right. I think well our goal is is it from what we did with the former workshop? Yeah. And that determining is it mostly about the setbacks that we've got some concerns or do does anybody have concerns about Okay. I didn't bring my phone last night.

Right. Right. So, I pulled the phone as soon as I got home and I asked the question that Councilman Joe asked. And the reason is aesthetics. It is an R1. It's supposed to be a neighborhood. It's supposed to have a different look from all the other Rs. And that's basically what I said. I Googled it and it was very simple. And that's the whole reason that it's 5T for the rest and

eightt. So I wish we' had our phone. We could have answered his question on the spot because it's not it was not written in that I could find. Well, it it is just R1 is is the only one that's in a right. It's all a visual kind of thing is to keep it to looking like a residential neighborhood to make it look good. I'll be honest, I grew up in Irma and sorry, I'm big money. Yeah, new friars.

Um parents paid like I think $52,000 for their that house. Um but uh we our houses were in that neighborhood are 10T apart at I mean there might be 15 I think one of our neighbors we had a little bit more but there was a drainage ditch behind our house that ran several different in different houses and whatnot and then it went under underground in a c whatever you call them the cauldrons or whatever the whatever y'all know Colulbert they thank you went under underground and concrete pipe and then as a kid obviously that's really cool so we went through you know neighbors we all went through it and stuff but so there might have been a little more but it's I don't like it obviously I mean it's the neighborhood I live here now we we we far apart

well as you buy if you're buying a larger lot you're going to get more setback back anyway depending on where you put. But you've got to have a minimum. But we could do R1 is a bigger setback which would limit some of the housing in R1 area. It would limit the amount of lots that they could put on an area that becomes subdivided. If you specify that it has a higher minimum setback on any of your boundaries, it would cause them to have to account for that in their when they're, you know, because they instead of putting 199 houses in the one over here, they could have maybe only put 150, you know,

um they squeezed everything that they could into the boundaries that they had and they're going to do that and they forgot about their sidewalks and then that made them even little more, but that's okay. So, what would you want? I mean 10 ft would give you 20 feet between homes. 8 and 8 gives you 16 ft. I think 20 20 ft is way better than than what it is right now. 16 ft. But you're talking about just in our right. Yeah. I mean obviously like and that was the I think that was part of the discussion was you still have to have affordable housing which means you still have to have smaller lots which means

you're going to have houses closer together right and and obviously lower footprints but at the same time in order to have that we could potentially make that into a a different R well cluster homes that falls under different category and that's what a cluster home is for. Yeah. But we need I I think we need a way to have affordable housing without having cluster homes as a like instead of town homes like have like patio homes like that's what cluster homes are. Is that really because I'm just thinking about all the but you think about what what has already been approved to go over by the police department. what I own, by the way,

by the police department that have, you know, that's when we allowed the 6,000 foot lots, the driveway was those are going to have to be uh the 5 foot um or you're going to have them. So, but that is what I'm telling you that is what's selling now. Just like you go down number one highway and all those houses. No, it's not for me, but it is for the the younger generation. here a lot who are I think some of that is fueled by the developers though because that's all that's offered right now.

I mean, yeah, most people don't want a lot of upkeep, but from an aesthetics perspective, if we don't have limitations on what they can build, they're going to crunch in as many as they can and then we're all stuck looking at it. Um, I mean, they're going to and I I completely understand it. They're out to make money. At the end of the day, they want to make as much money as they possibly can. Just like if I were going to sell you this used glass of sweet tea, I want to make 50 bucks off of it. But if you're building sweet tea, if you're building a house, you want to build it as as economically as you can

as well. So I mean, everybody's endgame is is the dollar. I think R1 should have a more stringent set of classific or categories for setbacks and those types of things to make it where there will be areas that are more spread out, more spaced out. And then for our two, maybe we're a little bit more generous with that kind of stuff to make it where there is more abundant housing, more affordable housing. So, does anybody have a recommendation for the sunset thing? I put 10 on my little when I was just going through this on my own. Um, I like it. I like to I like 10. I like 10. And I don't think it's real drastic as far as

Right. We're going two feet two feet basically, right? But again, that goes to the R1. And they still have to come to us to say, "Hey, I want to put this as a, you know, R1A or R2, which I really don't know why we have to why we didn't just keep going with the numbers. Just go with R1, R2, R3, R4, so forth. Whatever. And then the question that came up from the citizen today was a corner lot. A what lot?

Corner. You're sitting on the corner lot. You face one road. So your side of the house is facing another road. What is the setback? And I cannot find it. I would think the setback would still be the setback off of the road, right? It would still be it would you would still have to be I thought you were talking about between houses. The side setback is what you were looking at. If the house is facing this street and it's on this side, I think it the setback would apply to what the property line where there's going to be another house built. It's your boundary line. Yeah. So here's the front of the house. There's a street. This is the side of house and this is a street, right? Mhm. Which

so normally if in the past there was 8 foot the next house would be 8 ft. That would give you 16 ft. We're talking about 20 in the future. What happens on this side? You still have to follow the set back from the road. That's not what the way it's written. But I can find Becky. Can you find it? Were you able to find anything? I believe it says to the right ofway somewhere in here that Okay, let's see if we can find that. That's what I thought I saw through when I had to build my house. Find the right looked at so many so many different words

because the citizen believes that these houses are not that are going up. And I told him I would only ask it in general. I wasn't going to ask about a certain lot. Okay. Thought you you wanted to look into it.

So much easier. Here's what I have. Measure from the nearest street right away line. Yeah, that's so that would be considered. It depends on if it's an arterial street or a minor street. Okay, that was my next question. Future work. All right, so we know how many feet that I just like to be able to give them an answer. Would you find that wrong? I mean, I've got the 30 feet from the front yard, but I don't think it's 30 from the side. It is.

When I Googled it, it gave me a couple. It gave me an an in general and it was saying it was double the 8 feet. It was 16 feet which kind of makes sense rather than the 25. Of course that would dictate the size of your house. Um page 56. It's a table in section 865.

What was it? 8- What? Six. 66. 6.6. 65. Page 65. It's on 64. That's getting into subdivisions, isn't it? Thank you. Well, that this would be a subdivision, though. No, this is a regular street in Ber Le just a regular residential area. Um, yeah, it's not subdivision. It's it it goes through the zoning district. Okay. Table 86. Yeah, that's on page 80 or Wait, sorry, I should have brought my glasses to 64.

All right, so we found It's already our one's 35 ft.

So, it does address it. And it also says up there top the structure cannot exceed 25% of the building area. So, yeah, that'll be um that would dictate also Front to Wait a moment. Front to front 30 feet. Front to side 20 ft. Side to side six feet.

I'm confused now. Building. Yeah, it looks like it was I think it should be spelled out. Yeah, it needs to be. Becky, you'll check on that one, too. So, Becky said she'll look into it and see if there's anything she has on it.

I'm saying This table is specifically only applicable to cluster housing developments. So that's really helpful for when we get to that all the non cluster.

Well, I thought it was a good question that the citizen brought up because when I couldn't find it in the ordinances, I was like it needs to be added to the ordinances. And then of course then why does it have it in only why is that table only in cluster housing not in any other one that we have? Oh wait there's another table but that's not for that. That's for nurseries.

Sometimes I wish all the tables were closer together. Another thing that's wrong in our book is the height of the buildings. Yeah, but that just got changed because we just changed. So, do we want to just what do we want to do about this question? Wait till we get more information on it.

Let's go through it. All right. R1 A. There you go.

Minimum setback. So from a public street, what's the minimum setback for a house on the public?

No, that's all right. Right now, the front yard is 30 ft minimum setback. The sidey yard, we want to go from 8 to 10 ft. were thinking right away. The back the rear yard is 25 ft. Well, there's some neighborhoods that like the front yards closer because they think it makes it more of a community. You know, a lot of that's a lot of designs down in Charleston now is they're actually moving the house forward and they're giving people back those long deep yards like Rosewood. I mean,

so if we want to limit because obviously that's where all this stem from was from them be building so many dang houses, but if we if we added two feet on each side of we added five more foot to the backyard, that would start that would kind of slow down. Would you take it away from the front where it's 30 feet set back and then add that five? I mean, I think 30 and just make it even 30 and 30 on front to back and that way. I mean, think of the length of a car. What's the average length of a car? What's the length of a long truck? All right. Because you cuz you drive a a little bitty car

cuz I drive a toaster. Go ahead. I drive I drive a Jeep Wrangler. So, it's it's it's smaller. So you think of a family, you know, with two teenagers and they're adding two more cars in. So you've got to have length for four cars in a driveway now is what most people are looking for. That's what we have at our house. All right. So So what is a fair what is the fair footage for that? I mean I think without being in the sidewalk. I think 30 ft is I mean I think that's So I think the 30 ft less

because we don't want to have to get in where you got on street parking. Could the 30 feet be an exception for a special is that something that could be if somebody came in and had a wonderful architectural design and wanted that type of a neighborhood that is something that we could that the planning board could either well those are those are these are our minimum set exactly

that's all yeah that's all we need is so I I say make the front yard 30 make the backyard 30 the rear yard whatever I mean that's just my opinion I'm throwing stuff out there. That way we can limit in R1 at least we can limit the mass production of cookie built houses as well. I mean because obviously that's what everybody is very upset about that we're having 199 houses and half the property is uh R1 and then the other half is R R1 R2 or was it R1A? I can't remember.

But could you Could you make this dependent on the square footage of the house like under so many square feet or over so many square feet you're required to have? You could um some of this is governed by a lot size too which forces them to make bigger lots and then at that point it doesn't matter what square footage they use. It just forces them to give the houses more space to the math has to the math. And the average should be a smaller square. It's how it's about right. 16. 16 to 18. For what? Which would be your Suburbans, your Expedition XL.

You got to have 30 ft. So, for example, it kind of feeds into it. facility like the minimum lot size for R1 is 10,000 square feet which is like22 acres. So they would have the square footage of the house they built on that lot if they were doing minimum lots would depend on if they could meet the setback. So if they wanted to build bigger houses, they would have to do like quarter acre lots, you know, so it would force them to scale up a little bit, right? Um that or we don't change the setbacks, but we change the minimum lot size from 10,000 square ft to 12,000. Either way, it kind of works.

Just so long as we still have affordable homes, how are we going to fit them in? I mean, I'd be fine with making it halfacre lots if for R I mean, for R1, but only for I mean, you like that's why I'm saying like I think we could change it so that we get rid of R we don't have R1 and R1A. We can add we can go all the way R5 25, you know, whatever something. I'm not saying obviously we're not going to go that far, but what is the typical price of a lot right now in Bixburg le? I don't know. I think it's 30,000, isn't it? They've got one over. I know tabernacle now and it's something,000. I think when I check

if you look at when I Well, I don't want to talk about Yeah. But when I check I think it's 30 is the average. I think it's $30,000. So imagine if you increase these lots so much. Sounds sustainable. Pardon me? Uh nothing. I just said it sounds sustainable. Okay. Um, so there's a three 3 acre lot on Church Street right now that they have not come down on because I looked at it. Uh, it's 155,000. 3.117 acre lot. $155,000.

Just for the lot acre lot and it is not commercial. It is long. It's very very long. It's right. It's right next to um That's not affordable. Shumpert Street, right? It's right there close to Shumpert Street. Is the Is that in his commercial zoning? I think it is. I do know that the the lot where the Dunkin' Donuts is that sold one of those lots sold for 200,000. This is the commercial and it's always and it's right next to Walmart. I'm just saying

this lot right here that part of it I think R1 and then Yeah. then the others is that two the greenish. Yeah. It's this little itty bitty long which I wish I had a like laser pointer but um you can reach lasers. I know. But then then you could actually see like like it's this lot right here. It runs from here all the way back like that whole area right there. And that's it's 3.17 acres. It's approximately according to Lex County GIS, it's approximately 107 ft wide. My house is about 60 ft wide. Yeah, Becky. Yeah.

You can't do anything else with that that lot. I mean there's and that's one one ingress and one egress but but that's $155,000 for No, you're good. Um, I was just going to say on the SC affordable house or on the affordable housing issue. Um, something that you guys don't know that I do know is that um, SC housing has contacted us and we do have um, new housing coming, affordable housing coming into town, but they are buying single lots. So, it's not coming as a neighborhood. that's why you guys haven't. But there's quite a few coming and they are buying some pretty good size lots and building some, you know, some pretty good size threebedroom, two bath

homes. Well, something else that I know that there is a um builder that's looking wants to build tiny homes. And so that's something else we have not addressed but is looking for. We've been discussing that because we've had a lot of citizen interest in building tiny homes. That is not addressed in our ordinance. But I do have I have talked to um they built and he gave me like the minimum. Was it 650?

No, I think it was smaller than that to be honest. I have to find it in my notes here. But there's I've seen a lot recently on um tiny home communities and of course being of the older generation I I think it's a great idea you know that you've got these because we don't need all this house take care of and yet you've got the security of of like people in there. Um, so I don't think it it's a bad idea, but it's something that we need to to discuss. If you want if anybody wants to really look at one firsthand, there's one off of 378 that

on the lake or behind the lake. It's on a pond behind the lake, isn't it? And they're doing rent the lot. They're doing what? You have to pay like a rental fee for the lot. There's one on it, but the There's one in saloon, too. The minimum requirements are the bathroom has to be a minimum of 35 square feet which is a 5x7 bedroom 70 ft 10 by7 if it's separate from building. So total minimum is between 3 and 400 square ft. This is from the state built our international building.

Yeah. I think South Carolina adopted that provision of the IRC. There's going to be we can obviously just use those, but I put this is just me like feedback from everyone, but I was put some of that for tiny homes into R2. That would be correct. R2. And then I think if you have like more than a certain number on one lot, then it has to kind of be governed by like a tiny home park kind of thing, you know, because they're if we don't set a ceiling or so to speak, then we'll have mobile home in essence a mobile home park and then the tiny homes are

falling apart at some point 30 years from now and we don't have to deal with it, but the future will. So you're thinking there should be a limit on how many are allowed before it becomes like you. So say you have a family property or whatever and everybody wants to put their own thing on there. Okay. Well, after you get three or four out there, like it should probably be governed by a higher set of rules, a more stringent rules because then you're kind of turning it into like a tiny home park. But you know, I'm not even allowed to put an RV for, you know, my brother can't come and set up his RV for two weeks.

Yeah. which is another ordinance that we need to because this has been discussed where you would pay a little fee and you're allowed to park maybe no more than certain number of days so it doesn't become permanent resident which makes sense but that's another subject well see then speaking of tiny homes I had thought about several years ago doing multiple tiny homes but having like the kids have their own Mhm. bedroom,

but it was their own little honey home basically, and then have a larger like kitchen area and then, you know, like a living room type deal just as a as long as they were connected by a hallway. It would be allowed. Well, it wouldn't be a hallway. It would been It would I don't want them that close to me. I it would be it would have been connected by like a sidewalk type deal, but that was something I I had just tossed around. Obviously, that is not it's more like a family compound though than it is. But it would be the kids are you know, of course, this was the kids are were way younger and you know, whatever. But still, I mean, that's that's another thing too. How do you

Well, well, now you're you've already thought about how to cheat the system a little bit. So now we have to put in there something about it has to be separated. Well, I didn't think about cheating this. This is this is literally this was a thought process. But we do have some homes that have is the word casita. The Spanish word for that little se is it a casita? Isn't that what they have all out west? And in California you build a little separate house. And we have a couple in town. So something else that needs to be addressed.

The question I'm getting asked the most from citizens is we do have a very large generation that is becoming the age now that they need to move back home but still want to feel independent. So I'm getting a lot of can I put a tiny house in my backyard if I have room for my mom to have a mother-in-law suite? And then last week I had one where it was a pretty common situation too that a family and they have an adult child with special needs that he wanted to feel independent. So can we put a tiny home so he's close enough we feel safe but he feels like he has his own home. And in that situation there wasn't anything in the ordinance at that time that I could do for what they were zoned. So, their options were either reszone, which they didn't have the acreage

to um or we said you can subdivide, your lot's big enough, you can subdivide it, give him his own lot and put a a smaller house on that lot. But, you know, there's not going to be a definitive line. It's the invisible eye. Yeah. cuz I got I have a nephew that's special needs and I've had him since his dad died 10 or 12 years ago and he was he was wanting he's 30 something years old but he can't he wouldn't be able to do it on his own. So he thought about uh what if I I buy a small bill make we'll have to see and so he feel like he had his own place.

They're doing it. I know several in Gilbert that they've done the home attached it. It's a a tiny home. It's in the backyard. That's what a casino is. Yeah. Uh and it's for the parents that So that's that's an ordinance then that it that you know needs to be written up and a cassita and a tiny home are really the same thing.

So I got about an acre lot behind my house in town. I did see when I I can't remember what I was looking at, but there was uh I was looking through one town, they had provisions. So, I think we need to have provisions for tiny homes pretending like they've got a lot of land and they want to put one on there for the first time. Like, what are our rules for that? Right. Um but there was an exception in this one for like an existing dwelling like you have a home and you want to add something like that on there. I think there should be a framework for that because it's

conceptually no different than like a shed or you know a big outposting or something. So yeah, I think that would be a a shoot off of like our main provision. We do need something in place for tiny homes since there has been so much right interest in it. So and you again going back to Rosewood I think about how many garage apartments there were. I mean maybe they still are. There are lots of them R1. Yeah, everybody has a carriage house that people live in. Yeah. Or both. Oh, yeah. R1 and R2. R1A or R1. R1A.

I would say R1A definitely because it's the manufactured housing residential industry in But before we get too far off what we're going to we were talking about initially the setbacks the front and yeah and let's let's let's solidify what we want to say here. I like that. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Let's just let's solidify what we're going to do here. That's a point of order. That's the I mean that's just my suggestion.

Point recogniz point of order recognized. Good. So we decided that we got 30 in the front, 30 in the back. Or what do we decide? And 10 and 10. 30 30 and 10. But we're still we're still questioning. We're still going to try to find out about the side road on a corner lot. Yeah. And we may may have to look at a municipalities to get that answer or Becky said she'll look into it. Who would you call them?

I'll call Mascum too and consult with them. So, we won't set that vote up for next week then. No. No. I knew we were going to have like I figured this was going to take a whole lot longer because I mean because also we have to do that up there that's got to be 100% updated too and that's I mean obviously all that's going to be part of this comp plan but like I was looking and I was like oh well all of this like Main Street for instance in Leville it's all I think is R1

welcome to my But what do we have? What do we have? What do we have on Main Street? We have funeral home with the um I don't want to say it. The the what? Say it again. The funeral home. What's behind it? The home. Thank you. I didn't I didn't want to say I didn't want to say the the dumb down version. Sorry. Because that's where that's where Brain was at at that point. Uh the crematorium, but that's an R1 district. I mean, I think you have like we talking about an exception that What about um like cemeteries? Cemeteries. They're an exception, I think.

Is that an exception? Cuz I thought they had one. I know. They're not commercials, my understand. But you sell special exception. It is a permitted exception. special exceptions are ones that have to be heard by the board of appeal. So, I did miss that. Okay, my bad. Did you hear that? I didn't. Um, if you're talking about the main the main corridor there, I would just say this week I had a lady come in. She is right uh let me see here. She's in one of these homes right here kind of right across the street from where Poulry Festival happens.

She's grandfathered in as C1. There are three apartments in the house. They are lit. All three apartments are rented out. One tenant is moving out. They own it. So, they're turning that into a coffee shop. It's going to be mixed use. They'll live above their coffee shop. But, she's grandfather bench because she's a C1. So, we do have some and I think just as the zoning, I would like to see some things like that just kind of cleaned up a little bit because we just have so many that are out there not being used for what they're zoned for that it gets pretty blurry and confusing. So, has talking about Main Street, especially

has there been any movement on the industrial zoning for the old Burlington site? There has. There has been. Um we have to go back to your point. We have interest in possibly purching but there is um an issue with if that concrete is broken through perching as industrial though. Oh um no one okay

cuz that's the our big fear was to try to get it changed to see one before somebody came in to put industrial there. Well, the town is thinking about um you know, looking at it, but the problem is if you break through that concrete at all, so we're going to have to have that looked at. Does it disturb the uh soil? And it's very expensive to have EPA come out. They should have kept the middle up and made apartments like they did what they should have done. But I what what what was there before? Burlington. It was Yeah, it was a cotton and it was a fertile cotton place. Yeah. Is it a circle site?

I don't know. I just I haven't got like what's all in the soil, but they concreted over it to sort of help. But now that concrete's so old and broken up that if you're rebuilding over that and you can ensure you don't mess with anything, possibly you could get away with it. But that's going to be next to impossible. It's it's one reason it sat for so long is though they did um the soil abatement um because it had so much leaded paint stored in there is what I was told initially but I thought it came out from under that that they had done the soil study and gotten a

a clearance acceptable uh I think they did to put the concrete on top of it because that sort of seals old whatever. I don't know where they would have This is new concrete since it was to tore down. No, this is concrete that was already done. It's got hazardous hazardous waste on it. But they but they did I know it was a long study that they did possibly. Yeah. But so the site allegedly

under the EPA federal laws, if it's designated as a surplus site, which is hazardous waste, anybody in the chain of ownership, if there's ever any like leaks, they can go back and the EPA can make them pay for cleaning it up. So if it goes into the water table and there's all these like remediation efforts, anybody that's ever had an ownership interest is on the hook to help pay for that if the EPA comes in and takes over. So most people don't want to buy them. So if you do find somebody to buy it, you want to sell it to them as quick as you can. Yeah, I wouldn't buy it, but I also put a lot of money to buy and you want to be 90 years old when you sell it. Yeah, so it's free and clear.

Did we sort of clear up R1 or there any more things in R1 that we want to talk about? What about like if it's off of a public road? Is that going to be a little farther? Well, we don't have anything for that currently. So, right. That's what I'm going to follow up on that for cluster. It's currently 35 for the ride away. Yeah. If if it's like if that's what you're measuring your setback from. So, for R1, we want that to also be 35. We'll have to do this for every every housing classification,

right? So for our R1 houses, if their boundary is a public road, what's their setback from the public road? Do we want them right up on the road or we want Well, and you know, some some are now requiring that they do screening for Well, when we get to subdivisions, that'll be down R1. Okay. So R1, we're good. 3030 for front, 30 for front, 30 for back. Yeah, but what about the oneoff type situations where it's not like where they're they're measuring from a right of way or something like that. Do we want them to still be 30 or is it going to be 35 or is it going to be five? You know what I mean? Like if it's a weird lot right on a public road.

Well, that's going to call research and find out if something's already established for that when it's on a corner lot. It's not. It is not. It is not. That's what I'm trying to say. Oh, okay. Right. We don't have it in our ordinance. I was going to research to see what their suggestion would be for what they've done in other municipalities. I said 35. Okay. All right. Done. Everybody good with that? I'm good. 35 or 40, right? 35. 35. Let's do 35. 35. 35. In 10 years, we'll let them push it back or forward. There'll be another another group. Absolutely.

Got to leave him something to do. Are we on tiny houses now? That would be Was there anything else in in R1 that we wanted to? Yeah. Any other I mean I think I think you feel like everything pretty much was just basically setback. Do we want to look at storage buildings? Uh I have a question.

Okay. So 7-2.3 permitted accessory uses and structures. Solar energy systems. This is a big one that I've been dealing with a lot. Um people are setting up solar arms and photogenic um processing stations and things on their property to sell solar energy back into the grid and also have like solar um solar farms. So I felt solar energy systems was pretty vague. So I put in like a caveat that it has to be fixed to or directly supporting a residential dweller. Otherwise it's almost commercial.

Yeah. Otherwise it kind of does make it seem like you can put any kind of solar energy system in an art one. Like that's almost like selling vegetables out on your front porch or something. It's a borderline. You got to get a business license. Yeah. That's what I'm trying to say. You got to get a business license if you're going to sell. I mean, really, or you have to pay that fee solar panels or something like you're making money off of

you're not like pay $5. So what what did you say on you're talking about 713C solar energy systems? Um well so solar energy systems is permitted. It's 723. It's permitted in all of them I think. I think R1 R1A R2. I I just put some language in here basically couching it that it has to be like directly related to your house like a solar panel or something like that. You can't have like a little You can't have a little power plant station in your front yard that

you can sell back to the You can sell back to the electrical company, but you're not selling you're not putting a You're not generating it and it's not like a large scale commercial grade. Yeah. Well, I just I said that it has to be affixed to or directly supporting a residential dwell. I like it. Does not specifically say does not permit commercial solar energy collection, transmission or retainment system. What about any outbuildings, other parcels that if somebody was like covered swimming pools and things like that? Well, or even talking about like a little if you had other structure. Yeah. If you have

directly supporting a residential dwelling or out there, I mean, they sell those little units that you put on green houses and things and they're separate. They don't tie back into your They're all They're independent. Rachel, you should have been the chairman chairwoman. It's 2026. It's chair person.

She is completely gender exclusive. She is I'm not calling you old, but that's what I'm basically calling you. Okay. There was there was none of none of the nonender I think that's right. And y'all trying to get me in trouble tonight. No issues. Facts are facts. There's a lot of undergrad. That's right. Was there anything else that we wanted to add, take out, fix, reword?

Uh what's the distance on storage? I think that was that is so close to people's property lines. I think we should look at that and decide does it stay or go. Let me see if I can find it again. I meant to put post

it should be under accessories. Maybe it should be under storage. Storage car. Yeah. Prohibited uses inhorn. Prohibited. Prohibited storage of building materials, storage of parking. Is that what you're talking about? Or you talking about storage building? You're talking about the distance from the like set the set back from the neighbor's level. I thought it was

it's in six something. We're still in R1. We're still in fourt. it back from the side. I was looking for an email 4T lawn mower.

All right. So 63. I mean, we have to be grandfathered in. There's some that are Oh, say I'm I'm thinking of my our own. Me, too. I am, too. But this is 6-12 and it is it's just defined side and rear yard setbacks for residential districts. It's 4T from your property line. Um and then dumpsters, garbage and trash disposal facilities shall not be permitted in the side of regards to 10 ft from the property. So we leave it at four. Um so the accessory so

that would be what about So and I'll use mine for instance because I I want to do this and I'm glad we were looking for that or I'm glad we come. Well, this says accessory structures and accessory uses cuz I have a garage use could be a pool and then I have approximately 12 ft to the property line. I wanted to put a a lean to off my garage. That would be considered that, right? I mean, that would be considered I think we're talking about a separate that that would be a structure coming off of my garage, but they still have to stay to 4 foot, right?

I would hope not. I mean I I can't I mean about you especially with lot sizes your houses and what you can put on there. You know somebody may not want to have but somebody you know um chicken coops are a big thing now. That's what I that's why I thought we should discuss that. Y'all can't chicken. Well, I'm I'm just saying that it to me a lot of it is personal preference. I may not want to have chickens, but if you do, it's okay, right?

Um but I I just think we can get too restrictive, too. Now, um I mean, some people don't want their next door neighbor's dog house to be 4 feet from the property line. You know, you have to consider all that. My camper parked beside my garage to the property line, right? Like I mean that's where it sits right there. But that's why I wanted to put a leanto off of it. But but I think it if you attached it to your garage then it becomes an extension of your house and now you're going into the setback, right? No, not if it's the extension. Well, your garage is your garage a standalone? It is.

See? So So it's ours. So that's different. And it and and we also have a lean too on the side of ours. something about it would have to be four feet from your setback. Well, it is under that. So, we're I can do one off the bat for the for the lawn mower. So, we're good. Okay. All right. So, we're leaving that one. Yeah, we don't. But, I mean, like we don't have to change it. I promise. Okay. Moving on. cluster housing as a permitted special exception for all in R1.

Yes. No, I don't I don't think I don't I mean I think well you and I discussed that before I think as a sidebar but it's in it's in all three cluster housing is in is a permitted special exception in all of them but then there's also the four like cluster housing and is there one for the No, it has no it's a permitted special exception in everything in all three of them. I think it's even a permitted in commercial. I think we should take it out of R1 because that's going to be like our our highest classification. Yeah, it could be in I think it could be in all the other ones, but a subdivision could have cluster homes for special exception

currently unless we recommend that it be taken out because we want our R1 to be stringent, right? We don't for aesthetics clusters. So I I agree. I I think take it out of R1 for sure. Then I have us in R1A. All right. R1A. How are we on time? Any We got about We got 20 minutes. Almost. Al almost. I think we Anybody want to change anything on the R1A or anybody have any thoughts? Rachel, I mean, no. Okay.

You don't have anything? Not on this one. So, we have the same verbage for solar. Yes. Same river for solar. The setbacks on this one are 25, five, and 20 currently. Yeah. 25 in the front, five on the sides, and 20 in the rear. And we still have the 10,000 foot lot size. Yes. For cluster home for R1. Okay.

Manufacturer for single family. five feet on the sides. See, I feel like I feel like the R1A should be an extension in essence of R1. Yeah, put it. I like the 82 because I mean like manufacturer housing like houses now they're buddy of mine or a guy I work with, he's looking at them and they're 6x6 outer walls. Like they're built better than some of these houses are most 1970 homes.

I mean, you're running a 2x6 as an outer wall. Like that's that's pretty stout. I mean, they're not. So, I mean, my thing is is you're going to spend 200 you spend upwards of $200,000 for a So, 2,000 square foot. Does this also cover modular homes? Yeah, it should. It should be I think modular comes like the ones that you took a look at. Do we need to off of Saluda Avenue? Do we need to call it? That would be my one suggestion for R1A is to make a very distinct between modular and manufactured. Um,

does modular need to be only an R1A? Does it need to be do we just consider it a regular stick built home? But I mean it's basically in my opinion modular home. It's more of a stick built. So I would say we put the modular homes in the R1. And we are getting some um what if we just put them both in R1. That way it's just that way there's no distinction between the two. Does that work? Anything else? Yeah, there's going to be a lot of people grandfathered in. But yeah, recently I've been I've been R1 for modular and R1A for manufactured.

I think it that should stay. I think a modular is now built like a regular home. Isn't that what you're saying? No, I said the manufactured homes, not the mobile homes, not mobile home like a single wide type like the manufactured homes that are like double wides. They are 2 by six out of the walls and so on and so forth. And you can obviously you can take the frame out from underneath them. Take you know well that's a requirement and that be done for any for our for for our ordinance. Yes. But a mod modular home, you're just building certain parts of the structure in a factory, shipping it, and then it has to be put together. It's not quite like a

module is not the same thing as a manufacturer. Exactly. That came on a manufactured, you're just putting two buildings together. Exactly. Have the same. So, so modular should stay on. I think Yeah, I think we should keep them in keep them. We put them both in there so that way you don't have to really Yeah. I mean they both I would keep one as R1 and the other one is which one do you put as a R1 or modular not the manufactur module. It is just a house.

So is a manufactured home if you if you take if you take the wheels and the frame out from underneath it. The manufactured home is now a modular home comes on a truck and is dismantled off the truck and then put together on the lot. Right? It's not You're not shipping in a modular house. You're not shipping in these three rooms on wheels. It doesn't come in on that type of wheel. I think it comes in on trucks. So, does it really matter how it comes in versus how we're stabilizing the foundation? I'll cons cuz I think what we're what we're really right we already get caught up in is how it's shipped

but the end result is what is it sitting on is it sitting on a foundation right modular is on a foundation manufactur it's not and so but we still have to make sure that it's underpinned the manufactured home has to be underpinned but not be a certain amount of years of it being the age right I think what's in there now that addresses that is is good as far as I just don't think we have anything that specifies modular home which is different. So in the definition section I have in my own notes that we need a definition for modular home because there's only manufactured and mobile

and then also I have in my notes that I've been asked this more than once. Um people that are purchasing manufactured home our ordinance just says the house must be permanently attached to the ground. They're asking how does it have to be permanently attached to the ground. So I have just been saying there has to be tie-ins in a concrete slab, right?

Because that's what I know, but that's not what's written here. So I have been argued on that point. So I don't know if anybody wants to take that into account too. Some of the definitions need to be a little clearer. So if it has to be the tie in that it has to be on a would you say a foundation? It has to have a a masonry not it's not the foundation like almost has to be mason either concrete block orick brick the skirting has to be it goes yeah that can't be

cuz I've seen them where it's on that yeah but I mean it it goes up under there but it's still you technically with the manufactured house you still this is what take all that off put a a tongue or whatever it's called the trailer back there and move modular house you can't do that exactly it is on a a foundation that's what it looks like right there that's a that is a modular home that is what I was a man I'm sure you put on the probage I don't think so either

because then you get your you get you get your um title from the from the DMV for a manufacturing home. Well, I did my concrete block and then I had here's a here's the bottom basically modular bricked up right up underneath the edge of it. This is the bottom of it. This is what the bottom looks like. That's just that's a house just with rafters and correct. That's what I'm saying. But that's what I'm saying. like a the manufactured homes are very similar to them minus the fact that they're coming on a trailer. Like this is the trailer that it came on.

I mean, granted, it's on a trailer and they use a crane to pick it up and put it together and then attach it. But a manufactured home stays on. It's basically still on the the frame that it was delivered on. It all they do is remove the wheel and the tongue. That's all. They take the whole frame out. No, no, they don't. One's and one's not. One's licensed to the DMV and one's not. But you can be titled it if you put permanent foundation. Correct.

Which is what is required in our ordinance anyways. So, I would still think you could I would I still think that they should be together because they're basically the same. I know they're not, but in essence, they're kind of so similar. Does that make sense at all what I was saying there? Yeah, I somebody else asked I see a closer similarity to a modular and a stick build house than I do a modular and manufactured house.

So should we ask why would a manufactured house or modular why would a ma why would a modular home BR1 would be yeah AI because it is constructed to the exact same local, state or regional building codes IBC IRC as traditional sitebuilt homes. Unlike manufactured homes, they are permanently attached to a foundation, making them indistinguishable from sightbuilt homes in land use, value, and appearance.

There's a lot more, but yeah, that's summarize it for y'all. Don't you love your phone? I told Siri I love, but she said she couldn't comprehend that. And AI does lie because AI just takes everybody's only as good as the information you feed it. So if it's being fed false information, it's going to tell you essentially because they function look and are built to the same code as traditional housing. They are permitted in R1 low density residential zones. So

So do we want to now define that in R1? Do we want to make it a definition in R1? Well, let me clarify. Becky, did you say that you've actually had that question? You know, if if we're actually ha have already had a question about that. I've had it twice, then it's something that we need to address. Um, since it's already come and and I for one think it should go into R1. I do too. Let's take a little informal showing of hands so we can kind of see who's and what can't. Okay. for for modular to be an R1 or R1 A.

All right. How many for R? Well, here we're doing a show of hands. We need your hands. R1 and R. Okay. So, everybody from currently is saying that they're telling them R1 or R1A can have a R1. Do you want do we want to to put it as R1? Do we want to leave it just like it is? Well, currently they're allowing them in R1 and R12. So, by showing of hands, who would like modular homes to be allowed in those two? I would

yeah if it's if it's already but is it in our ordinances have we defined it? So we do need to define it but I I think it should be in both. Okay. I love this group. You sure got y'all got more done tonight than last. We got minutes before cutting off. It's about It's five minutes. It's about five minutes. I mean, keep rocking. What's next? R2s.

R2. Oh, one thing I wanted to mention in the next meeting if something comes up that we have to vote on, do we want to go ahead? Let me put this to the chairman chairperson. Do we want to go ahead and set time aside to keep moving through the ordinances? Like so if we have a 30 minute meeting, do we want to continue? Well, we don't know until the beginning of the month anyway as to what's going to be on the list or what's going to be on the other first of the month. So, just be So, you're saying so should we just mentally be prepared that we may have another two-hour meeting?

You're saying if I don't have an agenda, right? Or you have an agenda, one or two items on the agenda and it's done in 30 minutes. Do we continue? because we do the actual meeting and go into a work session. Yes. Is everybody good with that next month? That's fine. Okay. Yes. We do have just FYI, we do have two neighborhoods coming most likely to you guys in the next few probably month or two. Is that the one over by the school? Repeat, please. I'm sorry. There's going to be some new neighborhoods coming to you guys in the next like month or two. Yeah, that's that's the one that everybody on Facebook discussed today already. So we were incorrect. Okay. That is not that is not. So you read it. I'll try to have it like

there's no I'll have it in by the end of the month. That way it's on the next. Okay. All right. So see I I just don't feel like I should correct them. So we're going to Riley's going to clean up kind of what we've already done. So we got we got through R1. You got through R1A. We're going to keep everything. Well, we got the setbacks for R1. We got every all that done. So, we'll clean those up. We know we're going to have one thing on the agenda for the tattoo parlor moving to C1 with the ex the exceptions and all of that. So, that'll that'll and that'll end up being V I guess V under C1 because there's already it goes all the way to you I think already. So, do we want to address Tony Holmes then next week?

Next meeting. Well, that's depends on what we have on the agenda. If we don't have anything else, are y'all good with doing what we did tonight and going again till 8:00 to try to get through R2 and then R3? Yeah, that'll get us through those. And then for for the work session for the work s we'll do we'll basically adjourn from the actual meeting where we voted for whatever if if we don't have anything else and it's just the tattoo to C1 then we'll adjourn and go straight into a work session and we'll go into R2 and R3. But Sean, we have to have that public hearing.

Well, that's only that's only You guys want the tattoos on your agenda for next month? Yes. Right. So you can vote on it, then it can go to a public hearing. Is that No, it goes to a public hearing first. Well, then it can go to council. No, it goes first. It goes to a public hearing here. We can we're allowed to have the public hearing. Yes. And we vote after he closes. Sean will close the public hearing. Then he opens up our meeting and then we vote and then we vote and then that goes to council. then we can go to a work session.

But I think once I email this out, I think on our agenda after that is going to be voting on these recommended changes that we've gone through tonight so we can pass these down. Pass these out to to council as well. Yeah, I like that. Um, one other thing I would just like to Sorry, this is kind of a big one. Okay, so I'm getting a lot of questions about Airbnb short-term rentals. A lot of people are very very interested in R1. Can I have a short-term rental? Can I turn my house into Airbnb? Also, rentals. We do not organize short-term rentals, Airbnbs, any of that.

But they have to have business license. So, right. But what what zone would that what zone would your house be in that you can or would it just be I don't Is it special? Would that be a special permitted? Could we find out what Colombia did? I mean, but if you want to have a a home office in at your house, you can have them all under home occupation then, right? But Airbnb. I don't know how I feel about that. I mean, again, it goes back to limiting with the whole short-term rental kind of like

if it's like a I think if it's like a a true Airbnb that you're doing like all the time, that would need to fall in a rental property, something. Yeah. In a certain category, but Well, just doing it but rental property if you're weeks out of the year. I don't know. If you own a house though and you rent it out, same thing. Yeah. I mean, that's up to you guys. But that's a that's a business. That's a business license. I have a friend that did shortterm and he just had to stop. Lexington made him stop. Licensing is crazy because it's rowdy. Yeah. But I mean if if Well, you have to limit parties, too. That's another thing they're writing.

But I think we need to research before our next work session to That's exactly what I'm asking. That's that's a the tiny houses and the Airbnbs is but let's do our research on on those and see what other how other people are dealing with because we would have to just buy and you can ask your what's the difference and it's also on YouTube versus a bed and breakfast. I recommend that we deviate from Lexington County on some of these I do too. I think they did a great job. So, okay, we're going to do better. But with our location, with us being so low close to Augusta and you have

the Masters, people are already renting out their lakehouse and their houses here in town. They'll rent them for a week. I'll rent you a room. Yeah, absolutely. So I I tried to check in the different chairs as about too