Council - Regular Meeting

Hey, how are you? Good. Who are you? I'm Ray Junior. That's Ray. Yeah, sorry. We're all good. The last name to meet you. I don't know. I go put my windshields or something. We're live.

I'm going to go ahead and call the meeting to order so we get started. and uh ask Council Kathy Knox to give the invocation for

everybody will bow. Father God, in the name of Jesus, we come to you tonight just thanking you for the opportunity to be here and to serve. Lord, serve this town and let us bring your Holy Spirit into everything that we do. Let eyes be open and ears that can hear what you're telling us so that we're doing what's in the best interest of all those around us. Lord, help us keep peace which passes all understanding amongst us and amongst our area. We just praise your holy name, Father, and thank you for being with us. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen.

At this time, we'll stand and we pledge allegiance by Councilman both. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right. Since this is a work session, there's only a limited number of things that we can vote on. One of those being the approval of the agenda. Do I have a motion to that effect? I move. All right. Second. Do I have a motion and a second to to approve the agenda? It's now open for discussion. There's no discussion. We'll vote. Since this is more than council present, we do have the planning commission. We will do it by voice vote only. All that approved the agenda, please say I. I.

Opposed. Motion carries. The agenda is approved. All right. New business is the review of ordinance on residency requirements for the planning commission commission article 12 and zoning board of appeals article 13. Um would you like me to give a little clarity? Yes sir if you will.

Uh so recently uh council Kaine had nominated a a member for a resident for the board of appeals. the board of appeals calls for the the member to be a resident of that district. That is not the case for the planning commission. And so Steve had asked or council Kane had asked that we have that as a discussion item and possibly change that ordinance to make them uniform. And I'll defer to Council Kane if you'd like to elaborate. Wait, now is this something that the planning commission needs to

Well, you would ask to be part So, this is really more of a council. All right. So, yeah. So, um, again, I mean, you basically summed it up when we redistrict, there were people who were have been in the district for a long time and, um, there was someone and that fits that category that I wanted to appoint, but because he is was registered out of the district, um, he's he's not eligible to, uh, to serve. And so, I think the both should be uniform. um we have a big growing uh town in the community and I think that we're responsible enough to hire to hire to appoint um qualified people uh to both boards. So, u I would ask that at the February meeting that we would go ahead and and approve. Dave, I don't know. Do we need to do that by ordinance or

you have to amend um the zoning ordinance to whichever way y'all want to? Okay. But so if I would just ask council members to uh please um uh support the amendment that will allow us to make both of these kind of even uh in favor. Well, for me the clarity this only council. So, so yeah, just for clarity, it sounds like you're wanting us to go ahead and prepare the amendment to make it where planning commission board of appeals can be from anybody, any resident of the town. Correct. All right. So, so we'll we'll make district.

Yeah. Any resident of the town. Y So, bringing the BZA to be in compliance with what we already have for But does the council have to vote on that before we change it? Yes, that'll be a two reading. That'll be on the agenda next week. We can't that'll match the board of appeals up okay I have one other question that's different that since I read about the membership and it is on the agenda um is the uh planning commission members being compensated in any kind of way

because it says in here it shall receive compensation as determined by council That's a decision we might look at too. They're volunteering their time and that's what they're doing is is difficult. I did it I did it for a few years myself before I got here. Of course, we getting rich off of what we make. And I think we get other rich. But anyway, it you do need something. We can share the wealth. You do give your time and it's important that you show up and you do what you do. It's very important to the town and you should get some compensation for that. Mr. Mayor. Yes, sir.

May. While we're talking about membership,

I'd like to have a clarification for the town attorney. Um, council has the shall have the authority to remove any member for a cause. Uh, can you define the state statutes do not define nor do our ordinances define cause. What would be a cause for a council member to attempt to remove someone from the planning commission? I I would I would you know think that that for calls in this situation would mean something that has affected or will affect the operation of the planning commission. on

fa attendance uh fail to participate uh failure to be knowledgeable of the uh ordinances and the items that are presented before you you know things like that some so any one of those or any combination of those I think you you know it depends on how how egregious it is you know I mean if it's a constant thing and then obviously attendance if they're not if they're not showing up to meetings then or participating or participating or being prepared or anything like that. Yeah. Right. Okay. Thank you. Yes.

All right. So, we've got that prepared. We'll have that for on the agenda. What about Paul's suggestion? I think I think we'll just include that in the budget process. Okay. All right. Cool. We'll we can have that discussion for we'll take it out of pause. That's good. All right. Well, if that's all the discussion on item A, we'll move on to item B and that's the review of the zoning ordinances. And that would be R1 is the first one here. Mr. Mayor. Yes.

Point of clarification. Are we talking about all the or ordinances or just the ones that's listed? Well, the discussion the way I listed it on here was all of the residential zoning ordinances R1 1A 2 3 and then subdivision ordinance. Uh because the topic of conversation from the council meeting was the possibility of or a discussion regarding a moratorum to housing. So we put all the residential zoning as is open for discussion. All of them. That's all that we got. Yeah. 1, two, three, one. And so why didn't you just put more? Well, that allows us to discuss those items. Okay. I mean I

I mean All right. We're just talking about you can't vote on anything anyway tonight. Okay. And you got to start somewhere. This is definitely a start. Um, since everybody's got a copy, right, it's not going to be necessary to read this thing out. Or you want me to read it? Oh, no.

If if I may, I mean, okay.

Um, you know, there are several items that uh staff has identified. We have Becky here with the planning. U there are several items that I have had people address with me such as lot size particularly in R2. Um and we've also had a discussion with regards to street lights and the subdivision ordinance. Um hopefully y'all have some ideas and suggestions. Certainly planning commission being here uh hopefully can add ideas because they have probably greater depth of knowledge on the subdivision ordinance than the rest of it. So they have gone through that several times recently. So this is that opportunity to talk about things that you know y'all want to see change to. If we're wanting to talk moratorum we have to have a plan of what that moratorum is going to address what we will try to fix during that time. So now is the time to put that on the table. Discuss it if that's the case.

All right. I got a question myself. Yes, sir. The comprehensive plan, does it or does it does it or does it not address some of these ordinances?

It it it will it doesn't really get into the weeds of the ordinance. No, it it will leave that up to council. It will talk about land use and perhaps different zoning recommendations, but it will not get into the weeds. They're not going to say they're they're not going to make recommendations to change your lot size or if I may. Actually, our zoning ordinances are to support the comprehensive plan. Comprehensive plan is not to be built around our ordinances. It is to be built around the requirements of the community as it grows. So essentially from my standpoint, we're we're trying to get the cart to push the horse. We need a comprehensive plan. Then we can go through the ordinances and adjust the ordinances to fulfill the comprehensive plan. I agree with Councilman Hall. I don't think that it's now is the time for us to be discussing this. We don't know even though you know they should be getting us a comprehensive plan soon. I don't know how we can really say how we need to change or how how we can vote to make changes or not vote but plan to make changes until we see what we need to change. M

I concur Mr. Mayor if I may. Yes sir. The the easiest way to understand it is the comprehensive plan is the way the town wants wants it to look for the next 10 years. The zoning ordinance is used to enforce the comprehensive plan and make it look the way you want it to look. That's if you want to break that's really the reason easiest way to Yeah. But if we don't know how the new comprehensive plan is going to look, then it's we can there's really no need to change ordinances until you know what tools you're going to need to make it look like you want. So, I mean, you know, I don't I don't mind talking about these. Will the chair entertain a motion to adjurnn?

Second. Have a motion and a second to adjourn. It's a privileged motion. There's no discussion. May I say something? No, you cannot. This is a privileged motion. It cannot be discussed. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. How do we vote on that? I'll vote on it by asking you all in favor of adjourning, please say I. I. Opposed? No.

We're going to call for a division of the House, please vote. We'll vote by show of hands. All in favor of adjourning, please raise your right hand. Okay. All opposed, please raise your right hand. Motion does not to adjurnn does not pass. Yes,

I've got some questions on some of the setbacks. They tend to differ some as you go through each R one, R2, whatever. And I don't really see why we have a difference in them. Uh it seems to me it be should have one set back for everything. I've seen setbacks too and it's there there will be some differences in there and I don't I don't know well some areas you have 6,000 foot lots other areas you have 10,000 foot lots right setbacks

well the setbacks will determine actually the the setbacks and the requirement for the maximum coverage of the lot will determine how large of a house can be built from that. Yes.

So you're trying to maximize the amount of available space. uh it is possible and I haven't gone through the all the calculations but I believe it would be possible uh if the setbacks are not the way they are for a situation a lot could requiring 40% maximum 40% coverage I think it's 25% for arch yeah maximum coverage one difference of five to three feet

from the front back inside. And to me, that's minimal. But anyway, that's that's all I really want to talk about just looking through this start with. And also, I don't see where they call out articles. I'm not finding it in this document here. Maybe I would look it or whatever, but trying to go through ahead of time.

What we've got is R1 is 8T sideyard, 30 foot front yard, 25 rear. R1A is 25 front, five side, 20 rear. R2 is 20 foot front, five side, 20 rear. R3 is 20 foot front, 5 foot side, and 20 foot rear. Well, I did a little bit of talking and digging myself today and really the setbacks according to the people that I've talked to are the most important part of the whole thing because that's what determines whether we got houses that are in here like this, right,

that are so close you can touch, right? Or whether we have lots houses that are built like the newer houses that are being built on Raw RS Drive. probably the same amount of square footage but a decent setback to the sides and they're not so close together. Basically, we're going to have to decide whether we want Batesburg Leville to look like what's going up in Gilbert beside the road or whether we want it to look like what we're kind of accustomed to now. And that's where setbacks are important and why we have to settle

back that uh involves EMS and fire department which they should be available to comment on whether or not 5 foot which will give you 10 foot between houses or 8 foot which is 16. Uh if there is no fence uh and there are requirements that stipulate there. That's my whole objection to side the sidey guard set back. They should be farther,

but you can get inside 5 foot and you got have you had stricter building codes which I don't know I guess Lex County does our building inspection. We utilize safe build third party but they're enforce a lot of you know fire resistant materials that got to be used and I I personally I don't like seeing houses You could always have a minimum 8 foot minimum. Does the enforces the international building codes? Do they also enforce our zoning codes?

So that is part of the plan review in in advance. But then Becky, I think that elaborate on that. Sorry, just took a bite. Um, no they do not. So um the international building codes we adhere to but they do not they do not influence our zones. Is that what you're asking? Okay. The question is do they enforce both or only the international building? And then my followup question is if they do not enforce both who enforces these? I I do believe that the inspector does measure at the start when the footing comes off of the property line. I do believe that is part of that initial

to make sure that but you're telling me the town of Hburg does not have a formal policy dictating who will be responsible for enforcing the code going off the top of my head I don't have that in front of me but I do believe that is that so we have a code enforcement officer what does he enforce he mainly enforces international property maintenance code um yeah he does not do building inspections he is not a building official Um the the measurement I believe is done with the footing coming off of that property line at the very beginning. That's when the measurements

there's a lot more things involved in the zoning requirements. I mean uh well you ask specific just just the setbacks. Well that's part of the plan review with with our our staff is to to verify lot size to do the plat review. All of that is done up in some ways. I would say I enforce that because as the zoning admin because they send me the site plans and I make sure that it adheres to our ordinance, all of our setbacks and then I put my sample approval on it. it goes to Lexington County for it goes on through the process and eventually ends up to Lexington County. But the act but the actual measurement to make sure that they're

we have a we have a zoning ordinance that says that on R1 maximum coverage of the property is 25%. Uh that includes sidewalks, driveways, uh outuildings and other structures. So, uh, who comes out and who enforces that? Now, I can tell you who enforced it when I built an indoor swimming pool. You have an indoor swimming pool? Yeah. But it's been a long time ago, so I guess. Yeah. I'm just trying. It was enforced by the building. We work for the panel.

So, are we are we at a point that possibly we need to go back that direction? I would like to see us do that. Excuse me. I'm I'm confused. I I was invited to a work session and it says it's for both the planning commission. Well, you you can, but you no one can when you asked the question a while ago. I'll clarify why. A motion to adjurnn is a privileged motion and it cannot be discussed by anybody. So, you can't make a comment. You can only vote and that's why you couldn't speak at that time. You can speak now. So we can speak.

Yeah. That was only for that start on the side. Yeah. This 10,000 foot lots. So you can Yeah. Once that motion is open for all of us now. That's why we're working together. You're going to say when you hit the one that says 17 units per paper. That's why I'm trying to that's in here, but we do not we do not address that tonight.

No, I'll just bring it up. But in our spelled out in case everybody I'm sure everybody has read every page you know there is planning districts uh you can have up to 17 houses per acre 17 units per acre.

But I think my concern is I think you really need to look at the pros and the cons of the lot size. You almost need to have a board up here where you write down the pros and the cons. Um, and I'm sorry, I'm going to get nervous about this. Um, minimum lot sizes, they reduce housing affordability,

right? So that's the con one of them. When you reduce housing affordability, you also reduce diversity. And I think we need to discuss that. What's the minimum lot size? The very minimum lot size spelled out in our 6,000. 6,000. I'm sorry. It's not single family. It is for single family. It is 6,000. for uh subdivisions it is 6,000 plus 2,000 for each additional that's for R3. Yeah.

So 2,000. So you can have a and it's a maximum of four units. I'm not sure R2 would only do patio homes that would be single family. Sure. So, I think what really needs to be looked at is I don't know how you minimize. Do you allow somebody to come in and build a certain number of them and say you've reached that number of smaller lots, smaller homes so that we are inclusive. Go ahead.

Okay. So, I think you're making the mayor's point because that's what the comprehensive plan will do once we take a look at it and we can designate areas where you do have diversity in in housing and uh mixed use housing. We can we can talk about that per lot. you know, you can have x amount per lot so that you do have uh diversity and you can also identify parts of the town where you um where you want to put uh more dents

and you can create overlays which are areas at which we suspend or modify the zoning ordinance for specific applications uh worker oriented or starter houses. I would say if we don't know what kind of houses we want, what kind of zones we want here, we won't know if we want that comprehensive plan or not, you got to look at the comprehensive plan. We won't know if we're in agreement with that comprehensive plan because we don't know what we want to get a chance to vote on discussion. You get a chance to vote on I know, but if we don't know what we want before looking at it, well, it's already started.

So, but for clarity, you'll have a chance to review it and then discuss and tweet. So it it's not just something but I think they go hand in hand. So we in other words and I'm just throwing this out there. We may want to add another um zone in here where

where we have a place where it's only 14 that it's 14,000 foot. So you can only put 3,000 houses or we may want to go with a diverse subdivision where you would have hard R1 and hard R1A in it. So if we know what we want, then we'll know if the comprehensive plan is matching what we want in our town. So when we is presented to us, we can say yay or nay instead of somebody telling us what we should do and then we have to work our stuff into what they decide. We have to be very careful because we don't want to get to be a neighborhood that will only allow people who can buy big lots. Right. We have to be open to everybody.

Exactly. Yes ma'am. Something that we've discussed as a planning commission group is um we have already have some interest in tiny homes.

Tiny homes is a different animal alto together and it's not here. That's true. But if we've got people looking at us to do tiny homes, it's something that we we've got to address. So the the planning commission has has talked about having these discussions prior to council coming and that and then coming to council with our recommendations with our thoughts. Um I kind of think this workshop is is a little bit uh premature with combining us when we ourselves haven't prepared what we were going to bring to you to even consider. Um and so we're hearing a lot from you about things that we've discussed that we haven't formulated yet.

The planning commission if I'm not the station gets that the plan before the comprehensive plan before we get y'all see it first and then you then you come to us the first seven out of correct me pardon my uh manners but the first seven of 10 units have already been made available. Yes. Yes. Since September. No. Um it may have been September when the first six that was late. That was in the fall. I think we just received the seven. This is Oh, it's Yeah, it's been a few months since

does move separately. Let me just I just wanted to I was single for years. No. And the first house I ever bought was a twob house with a minimum lot. Y'all, I would have never been able to afford a home had this home not been available. Now, some of you may call it a cluster home, and there is ordinances for cluster homes. So, you know, that may be something that we want to consider. And like I keep saying is what I'm saying is it opened the whole door for me,

you know? I mean, it improved my credit. It gave me buying power. It changed my life. And that's what I worry about. I worry about young people trying to come into our town. You want your children back in town, but they can't find homes in town. And then what if I want to downsize? You know what? If my gosh, you know, I can still walk, talk, whatever, and I just want a smaller home. So, where what I would like to see is trying to find balance. That was my point. You know, if we we may want to add some more in here, the tiny homes, the larger homes or the mixed use situation. So,

so we are we're not just limited to these four. Well, I I will interject here too. There's a lot of discussion about houses that are going down Highway One towards Gilbert and but it's something if you will notice even as jammed up, it's not a house that I would want to be. I grew up in in California where they had track housing and let me tell you all those houses were three feet apart. Yep. And um but if you will notice most of those houses as soon as they're finished they're occupied they are selling. So a developer is going to build what is what the what they make money what they what the demand is developers

and it's just like Laurel has said the a lot of young people can't avoid and they don't want a big yard they don't want a big yard they don't they want to come home they want to have their little a little bit of bit out front a little bit of backyard to grill but they don't want to keep up they don't want to have to I think we have to consider the times of change um and and what it what we're um addressing now is a as a a different climate.

I guess I guess my confusion was everything said 10,000 foot lot and then we had different side setbacks rear front. that I I didn't understand that why we have those different setbacks on different 10,000 square foot lot. Maybe we need to break those out from 10,000 to 15, you know, something like that. I mean, I can't see somebody having a big old yard lot and then put a five, you know, go to a five yard 5 foot set back just to the cave. It doesn't make sense. I you understand what I'm trying to say confusion.

Yeah, but I I do think too how many people would do that. Not me. You know, not like clarification. A lot of those mirror the county. They can always be changed. Second, sir. A lot of those setbacks mirror what the county provisions are. A lot of this is just copy and paste from other municipalities. So, we can tailor any of these to be what is within the vision of the town. All of this is changeable and that's what this is all about. First, first we have to put a goal up for you know let's not play with that's why I think this is premature. You can run all day.

But we did want to hear from council all along. We kept saying we'd like to hear from councils but we're at least kind of moving in the same direction. Lauren, can I ask you a question? Yes. Um, have you has planning a couple of things? One of the houses that are here particularly up by the police department. That's that's really not but what by the police department. Oh, Beth Road, right? Huh? Beth Road area. Beth. Okay. So,

if I'm not mistaken and Jay, I don't know if Becky, I don't know if y'all have looked at this, but most of those people are from outstate. They empty nesters. And so we have to look at who's coming to base. A lot of young people are not coming to base. See, that's not true about the the one the base on the right side. The those are all young people that are those houses. Well, that's why I asked the question. So I don't I don't know. My experience has been that they were um well young people but from where

someone who sold a $400,000 house which is probably equivalent to what you could build here for 200,000. All right. They sold a $400,000 house in Mars Plains, New Jersey. They come down here and they look and they can afford it. The average we have a lot of problems in this state. our income tax, our car tax.

A lot of people cannot accumulate the wealth necessary. Our income tax is very punitive to renters. I have no pity for those people who just simply say, "I don't want home ownership, then they can pay the uh 50% penalty plus pay school taxes." A renter, a poor person or a young person starting out and they're renting. All right. where you and I or most of us own our own homes. All right? If we do so, you know, that h house, $250,000 house is taxed at 4% assessed at 4%. If it is not owner occupied, whether or not it's owned by a major corporation or whether it's my mother-in-law's house, it's taxed at 6%. Not only that, but act 388, which is the worst act that the South Carolina legislature ever put in, school taxes, all right, because it cut school boards, you know, uh, injury intended, cut school boards loose, all right? Uh, because state is paying my school taxes. They're paying your school taxes except for certain bonds. for for a renters, not only they say my school tax would be $3,000, if a renter if I rented my house, I'd have to charge that renter $4,500 because they have to pay the full full load. So, there's no So, we have to make a lot of different changes. There's changes coming. Fortunately for us old folks, uh it's the homestead exemption uh is being changed finally after al not only that the teach you people who came here from the north or far west you now have to you will now have to be 65 not 60 and you will have to live in

the house five years before you so you can't move you can't sell your $400,000 house in Jersey move down here at the age of 60, one year later have homestead exemption. So there's a lot of things can but I don't know many houses uh whatever uh we need to make some uh workable uh worker occupied houses and young people houses just follow up with uh with Lauren real quick. Um, so have we thought about annexation so that we don't congest the town with houses cuz it's a free fall now. All the developers, you know, we talking about what we want. Developers want to maximize their profit on the property that they own. So, um, annexation may be a way to ease the congestion in the town proper. And I remember when Lexon went through this growing pain, it was ugly. You know, you had new money versus old money

and the streets weren't wide enough to do all the things, you know, to house all the people. So, we I'm just throwing it out there that we may need to look at annexing uh to maybe meet Lexington proper or to meet um Aken proper or to go down towards San Hill um and 39 um with annexation. So you grow you grow the town and you grow the tax base and you don't congest the town and developers, grocery stores, all that stuff will will come where the people are. So you're still getting the revenue. Are you saying that we should forcibly annex people? No. No, never forcibly.

Never because they have That's what that's what Lexington did. Yeah. They were their water system. They said, "Oh, you're you're on our water." So now we're going to annex you in. You have no choice basically. I mean that's I'm just trying to figure I'm not I'm not suggesting we y let's keep it in order please. Too much cross talking one person at a time. Mr. Mayor Mr. Well, no. No. Joe, is that uh I'd like to make a

motion that we adjourn and wait till the planning commission can look at the comprehensive plan and come back to us with recommendations of what they think. Uh that's what we got them for. Let's don't sit here and bicker back and forth trying to solve anything because we're not going anywhere. comprehensive plan and let them put in their two cents worth to us so we can move forward. Is there any discussion? No discussion on a motion to adjourn. We have a second. We have a second motion on the motion to adjurnn. Who gets to vote? Everybody. Everybody that's in here gets to vote. This is a joint meeting and you just can't discuss

a motion to adjourn. Mr. Mayor. Yes sir. Um this is a meeting this is a meeting called by town council and the planning commission has been invited to the meeting. So only members of town council can vote on motion to I'm sorry I thought this was a joint meeting.

Do we have a second? A motion and a second to adjourn. privilege motion. It cannot be discussed. Only town council members can vote. All in favor, please raise your right hand. Opposed? Motion carries. We are journ. When will the compound

good to see you again? I know what you got on the shirt. I will be right over here. Would you