City Council - Special Meeting

Here is the name is green district.

See, here is the green district. D and Mr. How about this? You can hear our president.

Could you please announce the time in place? 544 PM.

Please stand for the patient and. so that we may be able to make the best decisions going forward for the city and county. We're not here for any shape, form, or fashion. Everything we do will be done in your son Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.

Hello. My name is Luke Blythe.

I'm from South America. I'm a reporter for which is saying, one nation under God, liberty and justice for all.

All right, we'll get the comments that relate to on the agenda this time. Move to five, approve resolution 26-2138.

Mr. Chairman, I'm from 10 members. In this resolution for operating budget revenues and expenditures for the general fund, this will be beginning July 1, 2026 and end June 30, 2027. Members, I've presented a set of amendments for Just one change before I came in, before I was asked to be moved. Correct me. Memo number five, page five, line 201, column I, instead of 875, that should be 870. You said line five? Memo five, that's line five, 201. That should be 870, instead of 870. And thank you again, Madam Chair, for pointing that out. Well, I was pointing out the amendments I need to make that change. Those brought out by the Finance Committee that day. So anytime we can consider those first, but we just want to go through the budget before council address the amendments or have you all. It's a pleasure.

I have a question. clarification, please, before we start. I think what I requested was misunderstood about the overtime because it's still rolled into the salary no matter what. When you budget salaries, you budget just the regular salary. You don't even factor in potential overtime. Once you figure out the budgeted number or the amount of people working, you still don't add in overtime. That's still a blank check for overtime. So you're not supposed to include that money in there. Once they have depleted the salary amount for the year, then people come back before us to ask for more funding. You don't just give it to them in the beginning of the year.

It doesn't work. That's true, but that's not what that was. Again, when I first proposed it, it was out of what I thought you wanted for as an accountability measure. The salaries are the salaries. I bifurcated them to just show what the historical was because, again, you take police department, the money that was spent in overtime was money that was budgeted for vacancies so this was and again i don't know where the percent came like this was additional money it was not as well i always said it's a distinction without a difference i could separate it because you all wanted a a measure to be able in real time you know whole department's accounting i got this directly from you all so that's why i went into that charter account and the object category for all time so i looked at what the past data was and said okay because of the shortage in certain departments, mainly the police department, were the fact that they were expending overtime from the money that was used for the vacancies that were in the book. So it's not like it was, it was never, I think the only part that was additional money was in for the marshal's office. And I zeroed it out and left the seven the same. I just put it in miscellaneous and received amendments. So here again, I don't know where the misconception came in because that adjustment to the budget was what I believe, and again, I'm not going to believe.

That's why I want clarification to make sure it was just salaries. It was just salaries. No projected overtime.

You go back and look at what it was previously.

It's no different, but with the increase that would typically happen.

So you go and look at what total salaries were. last budget, look at what total salaries is with these amendments, it's the same thing. It was never additional money outside of what was put in the Marshall zone. That was additional.

That's incorrect. Who's one? You want to go by line? I'm just trying to get clarification to make sure.

I'm trying to So when we get to the police department, when he tells us how many we're budgeting, the mass should add up.

Right. If you go by what the budget was the previous year, and again, there is some additional monies that's added because it's time in half. But the bulk of that money was for the vacancies that were in the budget that just happened to be spent on overtime. And again, it's not dollar for dollar. It is somewhat of an increase because you got the half-time part of it. So essentially, you are correct. There's still a half-time.

The one that makes sense, I just want to say, the one that really makes sense would be if it was just going by number of wives for what was budget and what was projected spending and what was budget for this current year. be the fire department if you want to include the overtime. Everybody else is almost efficient. I can walk you through it once we get to meeting.

I'm going to ask the council to let each council finish talking before you interrupt. One more question. Councilor Jay Green. One more question.

I think everybody's kind of saying the same thing. Right. But And in order to understand, we got to walk back to the year before. If you go back to the year before budget, because you looked at what the budget was, I mean, what the salaries was at the end of the year, and you plug those numbers. So you got to go back to last year. And if you budget for just say 12 employees, 12 police officers, you go back and you look for what you budgeted.

Like what she's saying, she's saying you're already computing. Over time, you're saying, I'm doing it because that's what they spent last year.

But if you go there and you look, can't do it now, you know, she's really probably going to have to go back and compute just what regular salary was, not the whole stuff. And then you will see exactly what everybody's trying to say. Because when you just plug in numbers, you can, You had overtime and everything from last year. That's how you projected this year's budget because you're looking at last year's budget. You look at that totality of it. But you got to break last year's budget down to kind of see what we're talking about.

And that's exactly what I did with the proposal because, again, if you look at police, that budget originally was set at $960,000 and it's amended to $19,000. Okay, and then that difference is the halftime. That if you don't budget it, it's going to blow a hole in it. But again, if I didn't separate it, you won't be able to track it. So again, I'm responding to what I thought were requests that y'all were asking to be able to track it in real time. Because again, Mr. Green, you are correct, is that halftime is the additional, but you can't have overtime without planning the time in advance. So it's still built on the previous budget, which is which was 960 official copies. I guess it's good to simplify.

I guess to simplify. The problem is I asked the wrong person. How many police officers did you budget for your department last year?

Good question.

And that's what we'll know. If you tell me how many police officers you budgeted for last year, we can do the numbers. We can run the numbers. And I can tell you pretty much whether you point or not because you plug in numbers right yeah i'm saying you for the action right now how many police dollars did they uh account for last year can you tell me not the problem right here right you plug in numbers i need to know specific details when you refer to the budget they talk about specific right itemized right 50 stuff you got to itemize right so i'm asking you where the department is to show you, Mr. Brenner, speak up, to show me where and how did you come up with those numbers when you talked to the department? But I want to know how many people did you budget for? If I don't know that, then I'm still in the blind. I'm looking at your numbers. But if you give me something to go by, then I can say, well, you're right. I want to refer back to Mr. Brenner.

yeah and the chief could tell you okay i got so many and the hourly rates of this and that again i just pull the numbers add them up and do a projection that was one of my questions so i do apologize the police department kind of makes these two years overtime because what what because it is everything in front of you the 25 26 budget is what is what you can just spend by by tomorrow It's June 30th or tomorrow. Yeah. So, and what you budget for going forward. So if you do add those, the police department, you do add the overtime, it do, it's around the same number as what's projected to be spent by the end of this year.

It's actually less because you look at what's in the amendment over opposing 910. But I don't have a question on that. I have a question. I don't know who that is.

That's the question, I tell you. With the police department salary, does any of this funding go towards the sheriff's department? No.

So it makes sense. There's no line item for that. I can answer that. Point of information.

Glad you said that. Because when I spoke with the attorney last year, we did the numbers. People don't realize that we actually shrink our budget because we cut out the sheriff's department. They said that we had to. Charlie Jones looked into it and said, no, they mandated to patrol. So my thing about it is you got a full budget for the police department, but you're working half the time that we're locked. Does it make sense what I'm saying? I mean, so you're giving us a 54, I mean about a 50, about a 52 week budget, but we only getting 26 weeks of work. Because you got a lot of this overtime computed in. Why is it? That's the question I'm asking. Maybe you can't answer that.

Well, what I can tell you what's computed in is the full-time staff that are currently in the department and the recommended basis that the chief wanted funding. That's that. And if you look at the year ahead, this year and what's in the policy.

I know the numbers. We don't want to go back and forth. We're looking at the numbers. I'm asking a carpet head type question. What I want to know is how and why Maybe you can't answer the question. And how much you have on the budget now? Just give me the last one. It's gonna be $910. $910. And we done cut it. So if we had to pay the share for it, you look back at the budget, how much would that be?

Well, I'm not sure because we didn't have that in this... No, you need to let... Right, but it was, y'all took it out before

and we'll figure it out on a regular time basis, and then we can figure out why the overtime is occurring and how can we eliminate spending. So I can't say nothing with this budget until I know how many people that you actually budgeted for. If it makes sense, I'm not talking to you. You were budget prepared. You're plugging numbers. I'm looking at what you're plugging numbers, but you're also plugging overtime.

Why is it?

And I'm going to defer back to Mr. Grant. This is my question because it seems like you've got a full-time budget, but we're not working. Maybe the chief can answer this. How many days are you working a week? How many weeks are we working? And how many weeks of the year are we working?

Because I think in some of the areas that... Councilman Doty. Councilman Doty. If...

According to the Budget Act, budget for overtime is a legal process. Yes, it is legal. Absolutely. Let there be no misunderstanding. It is legal. But going back a few minutes ago, when I was asking about personnel reports, I told you I counted up, I added up each department's the number of people you had in each department. And I did talk about the department number or the department code, right? So let's say, I know we talk a lot about police fire, but it is what it is on that one. But anyway, let's take the police. They had seven people on standby. So you did not, I'm just using a number. We say that there were seven patrols. You had 12 that you could have. but you had 12 spots, but you did not budget for those 12 spots. We did. But because the rest of those five spots, they went into the actual budget, but they weren't figured in.

They were budgeted, but they weren't filled. And it ended up that the salary that was allocated to that basically went toward overtime. Right, right. What Mr. Green says, that is correct in the sense that that halftime is additional money. But again, most of that was based on the spending that was budgeted for vacancy. And again, if you compare this year and this proposed budget, the spending is less. We're spending less. Still got the extra, I would say, halftime in. That probably, you know, again, The department can talk to more about that, about strategy plans that they have to fully staff the agency, which. You know, in a sense, you wouldn't need as much over time.

So, basically, if you go, if you go off of the personnel report, right. That has your regular salary is listed on the field position. So if you add up those numbers just off the personnel report, because those are all of the people that work for the city, right? So if you add up all of those numbers, and now to get to what's on the proposal, but there should be a number of people that are making, whatever they're making, that should be regular salaries, right? You should have a regular salary report, and you should have an overtime report, for the year. And if you're looking at combining those, do you combine those or how do you do it?

Yeah, it is combined because you have to. Because again, the scenario, I can't speak for the chief, if they're sending people on patrol that are field positions, so there's five positions that are in a budget that are vacant. What is happening is that the salary, regular salary for those five vacancies are being spent on overtime on the seven people that are in the truck. And again, that's why I say it's the same money with the caveat, Mr. Mayor, you are correct. It is additional, but it's only a half time. And it's not full time and half. The time, the one time is the money that's already budgeted. And it's just the extra is that half time, which is, you know, still less than what we spent this year going into next year.

So again, real quick, simply, do we have a report that, and I'm going to say yes, because we have the first bail report. We have a report that says that often our basic salary is right. And then we should have a report what overtime was for the year as well too.

Yeah, I can produce that. Like I said, it's voluminous and you have to go through it. That's why I Added that object category because I heard what y'all were saying. And I was like, well, we can track this in real time. Just going by the object category, again, that comes from the legislative charter of accounts that the legislative order puts out and says we can use. That's why, again, I'm glad you brought that up. Budgeting full-time is legal. Okay? Nobody will get a misconception it's not. So I said, okay, well, we can track it in real time. So every time we do it, we'll have to go through these reports. That's pages and pages because it's separated by department, which I can produce to you, and this is going to be another added document for you to go through just like the bills and currency. I can go through it and figure it out. I can produce that.

All I'm saying is when we get ready to prepare the budget, that's when those numbers become important.

That's why I threw them in here to let you know what the historical is because that's why I put it in the book to let you know, hey, this is what Historically, overtime is, and oh, by the way, outside of the halftime, it's not new money or additional money.

So did you look at the couple years that we had, the historical, with the overtime?

I just did the current year. I just did the current year projected. That's why I put those in the button. To show you what it is. And that's the reason why I put it in there, for you to have that snapshot, because this is what we're doing this year. based on that. Again, that report is gonna just have the field decision. And again, the chief can tell you, you know, what he plans on for, what's in the budget for, filling those positions, and what salary those positions are filled at. And then you can, you know, do the numbers that we've already done. It's just, once we do the numbers, we put it in there. And, you know, again, it's up to the departments to tell you, you know, how to optimize. I'm not gonna have to optimize it. I put a report in there for you to look at so you can do it automatically yourself. Because my whole thing is I heard your question and concern. I tried to remedy it. I had no idea it was going to be an issue. So that's why I backed it out because that would have gave you real time to track this, to have questions for the department because that's what you said. And that, again, this is not extra money outside of the difference between straight time and time and half. Because that's what the increase is. It's the difference between straight time and time and half.

So last question. If you go by what the last year's number was, it ought to be pretty much on the same, on the bar.

Yeah, you can look at it. It's less. We spend less money. So it is less. It's a reduction. And it's for different reasons. It could be what Mr. Green was talking about, the abbreviated schedules Because there had to be a reason for the reduction because the vacancies are still there. The overtime is still there, but we're spending less money. So there's a reason for that. And I guess the chief will be able to tell you, but my assumption will probably be on what Mr. Green was saying is that we're not staffing every day. And that may be the reason why we still spend the overtime, but at a lesser click. I know that I can tell you what I'm assuming because the numbers, we're spending less money than we did last year. We still got the same problem.

And before we go into Council Lady Tappan's next, do anybody have a question for Chief Williams, ELE for family? Anybody got any question for him?

I have one question. Chief, I'm just looking to see your overtime. I think it's because of the way you work your shifts. Is it seven hours, seven hours? How do y'all work? We work 24 hours a shift.

So we're going to get overtime regardless because we work 56 hour work weeks other than admin. So they're guaranteed some overtime. But with vacancies, they're filled of those salaries. The salaries take the overtime. So that's every day, so that's somebody every day. So that's one other time slot every day because we don't have extras. And then any time we have somebody on vacation, which is pretty much every day because fire and police get, I think on the max you get 15 shifts. So if you take all your 15 shifts for a scene, that would be a month and a half, 45 straight days he's all paid. One of those days he's out, you got to pay somebody to fill that slot. So you always got somebody out on vacation, on every shift, and then we're short at least one on every shift. So that's two slots, basically. Then you have to figure in if anybody's off on extended sick leave. So we've had a couple this past year that was off eight months. One was off eight months due to an illness. So that's a spot. You got to pay that spot to fill that slot. So we don't have the extras to step in and fill those positions. If you wanted to cut down on overtime, you had to supply more employees. And I've ran those numbers before, back when Mayor Cotton wanted me to run those numbers. And when I ran the numbers, so basically paying the overtime versus salary employee for fringe benefits, the numbers was tip or tack, but it was not enough difference to go either way. And some of that overtime is also a benefit that keeps your employees here. Because if they was making that bare minimum, I can assure you, you know, the ones at the bottom are probably going to be looking for another job. But there's a happy medium there with that overtime. Sometimes it's tough to fill. But when you can fill it and it gives those employees an opportunity to work a shift or two extra, that's the benefit of the job. Because it's tough to make that overtime on a Saturday night.

And to add to that, what Chief just said, is again, you get away from those legacy costs that invite you in the end when it comes to these unfunded, crude, live buildings when it comes to benefits. So here again, again, I'm going to harp on what Mr. Dobbs said. A budget for overtime is not illegal. And it's essential for this department. And it's always historical. So here again, outside of the fire department, and the Marshal office. And I can't even say that that's extra because that's what he needs to run the department. We have a fire rating that is what it is. And the mayor's part was to police and fire first and do everything else with a spark. So it's one of those things where, you know, I understand the concerns about overtime, but if you look at the trend line and the data, again, we spending less money overall but that still doesn't negate that there's an issue with certain departments. I'm not skating over that, but it's not, from a budgetary standpoint, something that's overly critical outside of when you run a department to the point where you rely so much on overtime outside of the fire, you run the risk of having retention issues, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Okay. Ms. Smith has said twice about Overtime not being illegal to budget. I don't think anybody has insinuated that it's illegal. That's not the point. I think it's not good practice in budget preparing to budget for overtime. And that just comes from years of preparing a budget. So I have experience in preparing a budget. Because you allow one of two things when you just give people, you give people a blank check, or you're gonna bust your budget. I mean, either way, it's not good practice. And that is my point. Nothing that is illegal, never said that.

But it is practice for the platform.

It's not good practice in preparing a budget.

Chief Williams, let me ask you a question. So when we in the budget process, do you give Mr. Rickey's knownness with the broken down For this particular year for the current year.

So, you just started on Saturday. So, Ricky pull those numbers out of the.

So, normally, normally before this, I do normally. So, the, you know, we had, we turned in.

the department roster and any vacancies. So for my department, it's 40 members. So that's what's budgeted for salary-wise. And there's one thing, I don't know where, that'd be a question for Mr. Dickens, that don't reflect. It's in one of these numbers here, but you have to also consider holiday pay. So we get 13 paid holidays. So when you figure that up for an 11-man shift or a 12-man shift, That's 13 days that you pay them double time. It is, it does. So that's in there somewhere, too, and probably on the overtime side. So that's something to figure in, too. That's a pretty big number. But I don't think I answered your question fully, Mr. Tappan, about the shift. So our guys, they work 24 on, 24 off, 24 on, 24 off until they work five. So they're off every other day. And then after they work five, then they're off six days in a row. But they get paid on average. So the average is 112 hours every two weeks. So that's versus an 80-hour employee. They're getting paid on average of 112 hours every two weeks. So that's another number there. So by law, anything over 53 hours is overtime. So that's where they get at least three hours of overtime. to be figured out but as far as the numbers those are salary numbers and then what what you ain't feeling in those vacancies the overtime is it's taking it he's just got it broke down he's got a problem you have an outfit too don't you sir yeah i'll say like some your department give us revenue right yeah so uh fire district number two is actually so they they they consider they take care of 12 of those employees so On the average, you're looking at 1.1, I believe, roughly. Don't quote me. It's close to 1.1 million a year is what fire district number two pays the city just in salaries alone to operate their stations. So when I tell y'all we've got 40 employees, the city ambassador gets compensated for 12 of those employees. So that's really 28 that the city comes out.

I think that's a 1.1 million somewhere. 26.

I think we're all saying the same thing. Yeah, I agree. I think we're all saying the same thing, but they need spots. I think it's about the number of people, even though they're not in that position. That's why it's very important for us to know how many people we have

each one of them. You sure how many? I'm sure four. But also two, which of course is a little different than most, right? If somebody had to fill that position.

And then just like you heard the police, the police used to say the same thing. Just because I hire five people or those four people, those four people don't go directly to that spot and cut that whole time out. They got to be trained to flip. They got to go through the cabin and They got to get trained. And until they really start driving a fire truck, which is almost a year from the time they deployed, they're not going to cut out on that overtime.

And I've got another question for you. That's fine. Let me tell you a little tip.

That's what I was getting back to. I just went to the police chief to get up here. Because you hit it right on the head. When you budget, I keep asking you the numbers. You tell me the numbers. Because they just can't really just go on the street. But I went to him. Thank you for answering my question. If anybody got any questions, I'll give you the numbers and he can explain.

Right. He's short four, so it's pretty much, he's not really just listening to budget because he's four at the same time. It's like 40 minutes. So he really ain't.

I'm short four, but like I said, there was a couple more things, factors, where my own time was higher this past year. Like I said, I had a couple of them. on sick leave, that's just like being short when they're off. You know, if you get somebody that gets injured on the job, it's all six, eight months or even close to a year, you never know. So those things that can come up, they can, you know, elevate that over time as well.

Thank you. Thank you, Chief. All right, thank you. Anybody got, Chief Reed, would you come up, please? I will. All right.

before we go can i do what i typically do just go over the numbers and then uh again the police department uh you go that budget uh is on page 89 lines uh 337 to uh 372. again the uh police department is budgeted uh for total budget of $1.9 million, which is a 3% decrease from what's projected to be the year-end budget expenditure for the police department for this FY25-26. Again, I'll put amendments, the set of amendments that I have, specifically amendment number nine and 10, that's basically just going back to what was done in the past, all of the salary information is just put into regular salaries, and that part-time position, that is the salary of, and Chief can explain, it's the, I want to say, it's one position, I didn't tell you what that position is, but it's one position that is part-time, here again, it's budget, There's 1.9, which is 3% less than what's expended in this current fiscal year. So that budget is actually going down in regards to salaries. Even with that amendment, you're looking at just over a million dollars being spent this year in the budget proposal for the total salaries at $910,000. So there's about a, what is that, about a, I want to say $8,000 difference. So Chief, with that, of the numbers.

Okay. I have a question for you. Now, the amendment says page 8, line 338, number 1, salary is $19,000. But you're telling me the total salary budgeted amount that you budgeted was $1.9 million? No, I already did $1.9 million.

It's 910. No, the total budget expenditure is 1.9.

That's the total. That's everything.

Okay. Okay. Councilman D, I mean, Jay Green. Councilman D Green. Any questions? T Green.

Chief, how many are you budgeting for and how many vacancies are you in? We budget for 23.

Yeah, that's what everyone, including the whole department, we budget for 23. Out of those 23, 12 of them are on patrol, three or four ships.

So how many are you short for your department?

At this point, I'm four short in patrol, and I'm two short in dispatch. That would give me 23 people. Actually, I'm unsure if it's 23 or 24 that we budgeted for.

My figure shows that we budgeted for 23.

16 on step. So, you said.

Right all together information. So, the 23 shifts. When allowing you to run 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Between to read.

Point of information. Point of information.

Oh, you just stated something. 23 number would make you be full-time, work full-time?

Yes, sir. You would have... But... I'm sorry.

But the real hold-up is a patrol career. That is our stick-it. these numbers when you budget these numbers and that's the thing I want to know how many offers did you budget for you're the right person I need that because you even gave me some numbers so when I look at these numbers and I say if you fill these 12 slots because you got five it's not filled right four or five so when you fill those vacancies what are you going to do about the people What are you going to do in the meantime when you have to train those people? Because you can't go right in. So for about six months, you're going to be running sort of a deficit because you got to train those people. When you pull this down, then I guess I'm talking about when I say wasteful spending, I'm trying to see how are we going to be able to fund it when I'm looking at these numbers and Mr. Smith's What he said, just a half. When you address the other people, then you're just going after half.

It's not going to be all over. Right. Let's say tomorrow he's fully staffed. The access will be basically that half time.

Once he's full time, you're going to stop right there. You're exactly right. You're saying what I'm saying. When you fill it up, you're just going to be stuck with that half. My thing about it is because you got to send those people to training. So you're going to have 12 people. Then you're going to be, you're going to have, I just say, I don't know how many you got to send to training. You might have someone that's post-certified. So what I'm saying is, I don't know this if I don't get a report. I got to know how you operate. You can't just come here like Stephen wanted and say, thank you, Chief. So if you got a post-certified, they can go to the streets. I don't know what the department is by retraining or whatever. But just say, if you want younger people to come in, they got to go to the camp. I'm just saying, if you feel those vacancies, but you say you got four already that's coming, three or four, whatever you said in the last meeting, better put them at nine closer. I'm just, brother. And then when you hire four more and you fully staffed, but those four people have to go to the account. Then you got six months to a year that you don't be running in the red. That's why I'm looking at these numbers. I'm saying, probably don't balance it out. It's not a got you thing. It's just that when you do basic economics, you're looking at, once you fill those positions and you gotta take them based on you and Mr. Williams' assessment, you just can't put them in the street. So if you take an employee and have to send them to the academy, how long will it be before from A to Z, from the first, when they leave the academy, when they first get to your police department, how long will it be for before you get certified to get in a car?

Nine to 10 months.

Nine to 10 months that you got to pay another employee a regular salary. You see what I'm doing? Because you can't put that person in. so i'm looking at that's why i want to know about these numbers because your goal is to fully staff police department right so if you're going to pull us that police department we got to see what we got to see how we're going to balance the police department that's we got to see what's suspending because i'm looking at right now we spending for a whole but we're getting because you're working like Well, I'm not going to put words in your mouth because I don't know the numbers, but you work from 12 hours until 24. I would be, that'd be, how many days a week do you think you work? Well, you know, you're the police chief, you know they work. How many days do y'all work actually a week?

We work every single day.

Every day, except every single day. Just bear in mind that y'all work three or four days. So you work seven days a week, but you work 12 hours a day. You either don't work days or not. Three. So I guess when I'm looking at these numbers, I miss it. Go back to what I'm saying. Mr. Smith, it'd be misdirection towards you because you just plugged the numbers. I need to ask the people that actually supposed to give you the numbers. That's why I'm asking the chief. Now you see where I'm going about when you pull the step, what we gonna do and how we gonna get with the man, how we gonna fund. Police Department?

Yes, sir. I think one of the possibilities is because if my anticipation is right, we will have to come back and readjust during the courts. That's what we're going to have to do. If, you know, we don't overinflate or anything, the anticipation, we will be happy to come back and readjust as we move on.

I think that's what Councilman We don't want nothing over in place. No numbers over in place because sooner or later we're going to have to take the police department and keep the police officers. We're trying to streamline the budget.

Again, that is absolutely correct. Again, that's why I'm going to go back to what I said. That's why I thought you wanted to track it in real time because now you'll be able to tell the chief, okay, you're spending this whole time where you are on your funding now. How many people got in Canada? What's the time period for they get on the streets? Just like that said, nine months. We can sit here and calculate and do an amendment to a Q1 or Q2, but you're not going to know it if it's not in real time given to you. But I'm going to produce those reports for you and you figure it out on your own. And I can't do anything because, again, you trade something that's efficient to inefficiency for what? I don't know. But again, I heard, and I thought I heard that's what you wanted to do, because that goes to, that's a tool that you have. Because when you question it, because I'm going to give you the numbers, and you look at the percentage, if it's third quarter, he had 40%, he's going to be at 25%. He goes, okay, Chief, where are you with your staff? How many people you got in the cabinet? What are you planning? And I'm just going to give you the numbers. And say it should be 25%, but it said 40%. So we Spending more, so now to compensate that, I'm going to project out, based on what he's saying, we're going to need this to fund overtime until we get those people on the street. We can't do that if you don't have the data. Right, but I'm just saying, that's the reason why I was in there for you, baby. Do your due diligence. I give you the number, and they explain to you what the number is and what they need in real time.

And that's a statement just for clarification. I know you said you would give us the overtime reports. Yes. And we have to figure it out on our own. No, that's where the department is coming in. The department heads will figure that out for us. Once they produce the overtime amount, the salary amount, they will be able to tell us where they are in their budget responsibility of being a department head. And I'm exposed.

You have 24, you have 24 slots, right?

23 to be at full time. So have we not been budgeting for those full 23 slots? Yes, we have. So why would we have to come back once you pull, come back and do a committee?

If we hire an officer to get on full certified, they have to be trained.

They can't go directly to work. And so meanwhile, the same officers who are working overtime should have to continue to work overtime So that's the only distinction. There's more people. That's what's very important. We know the numbers. That's what we've talked about all night for the last few minutes. How many people do we have? And then it's easy to figure out. Until we get those numbers, everything is time. and we don't know.

Well, the budget has those numbers in it. It's just the real-time adjustments are not in there because those 23 positions are funded in this budget. It's just those vacancies, the chief better tell you what's the salary range for those vacancies. Right, but that number's in there. Yeah. It's just a matter of being explained to you the application and the price. One more question, sir. Mr. J. Green?

I think we all know the same thing. My problem is, when I look at these numbers, William and Mrs. Smith have been broken down in the third quarter. He's not finished up in the fourth quarter. He's right in the sixth quarter. I keep saying you're paying full time, but we get overtime. If we're not working all the time, we're working 12 hours. If it's overtime, Why is it so much overtime that's being computed and you really not, the sheriff department is working one shift and me and Mr. Smith talked about this a little bit when we talked about when you, everybody's got to come off it and rotate. You rotate in, you rotate out. You ain't working but five, you ain't working but, half a shift if you weren't setting days. Somebody's going to be all, I can see the weekends rotating and all this, but how is the overtime so expensive? You see where we're going? If you're looking at, you're just building in money through sun. You're just working one shift. So somebody's got to work. off and somebody got involved. So my question would be is how do you do your off days? I mean, being being out there to ask my question, how do you how do you do your off days? Just like Mr. William spoke about, how do you rotate? How do you do your police officers do they all?

I didn't do they should tell my you work and then tell the day then nights.

five days, one week, and two the next seven days of pay period. The officers that are doing the overtime, each shift does do overtime. So on some of their off days, that's when they're filling in where the night shift would be if we had night shift. And that's where you come in on the Wednesdays, the Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. That's where they're filling in. Now, these officers... have vacation time that they have to use, which they have to do. Then they also have, we've had incidents where we've had officers that have been recruited, and one of them is still on sick leave. We had another one that was out for six months. We got another one that resigned while they were on sick leave. We have to pay people to work in their place. So not only were some of these officers working the shifts on night that we didn't have anyone to fill in the spots where the officers that were injured were. So that's where a lot of that comes from. Then you got to factor in other things such as parade details and things of that nature. But the bulk of your overtime is coming from them coming in and filling those shifts and working in the officer's place when they're out on vacation. Hi, Deagran.

Hey, Chief, on your five, how do y'all work? How many hours do y'all work?

We work 12.

12.

So you work an 84-hour pay period. Well, you work in 12-hour shifts, seven days. It's in a pay period. And a two-week pay period? Yes, sir, you have two weeks. So the regular amount of hours that the officers would give if they weren't getting any overtime would be 84 hours per pay period. How many hours on each swing shift? When the swing shift works, if you don't have anyone injured, it's going to be three working. So on the regular, on the normal, how many hours do you have on the shift?

Three. Councilman J. Green?

I guess my question would be like, they worked at the mill, and they worked 26 hours a day, because they opened 24 hours a day. But if you couldn't have, you shouldn't. I'm just thinking, why are you using the same formula with your officers as overtime, and you working half of what you used to be? You still look like you're still formulating that overtime and stuff based on the 24-hour rotation.

still over 12 hour rotation i think but it's a department in america okay well please do we tried to uh fill in where we could and um at one time when we did change and try to get some help from the so until we were able to fill those spots people complained they said that we shut the police department down I only had like five officers. So I did gain some more officers. When we were able to gain those officers, we started rotating just like we had been doing and trying to cover the night. But then that's when the other dilemma came in. Officers that are working are getting worn out. And at the same time, they're being worn out and they start calling in. sick you still got officers who have to take vacations and the law says you have to let them be off and the law also says you can't work them but a certain amount of hours and you have to let them be off those you said you said they're burning out when you track that thing it's also burning burning out so they're burning out in 12 hours

My thing about it is you, how many officers do you usually have to run a shift? I think we had got out to three. We said we had to have three because you said you weren't going to do it with two. I'm a pretty good member. You said three. So if you've got the people that's coming, it's going to put you at eight or nine. The overtime should greatly decrease once all of these people are back up and on their shift. Right. It will decrease once you get staff. Well, I know we planned on getting staff already. That's what I'm talking about. Well, because we don't want to keep going down this road over and over and over again. Like when you said last time, I went back and I looked at the tape. Y'all don't be going looking at the tapes. You said that about the overtime. When you came up here before, you had to give a raise when the mayor came up. We was going to give you a $1 raise, but something came up. First, we gave you a $2 raise. But then the next year we came up, and the mayor came in, said, we need to up it. Gave him another $2. Now, I ain't real good at math all the time, but I think two and two equals four. You asked for a $4 rate. And a listener said, well, we didn't give it all at one time. Do you know how hard we had to fight just to get those $4 when the mayor came in, first time we talked about it, said we got to give them more money because they actually pulled out am i right we gotta give we gotta make a way because he actually pulled out so i'm saying all that fighting we did it's like i don't want people i don't want to seem like as we didn't do something because i don't know the appearance that we kept your hands tied and the reason we still in this predicament because we did everything we've done i go way back mr jones ago we Say we was paying the share department, right? We cut the share department. Let's say it was a bunch of money. We done given the police department $4 hour raise because we said we needed it. I'm just saying as a council person and as finance chairman, I do everything I can to make sure that we up and running. So it goes back. We got to keep following the ball back. We can do it all we can. And he said, we're gonna be up and running. Let's be up and running. So you got nine officers. Money, that's why we're trying to streamline. So we might have to up the pay rate. That's why we're trying to get everything streamlined. So if you can see the streamlining, whether you will be able to fund the police department not because you know you just can't just go say you're going to give them a raise and and the money don't don't justify you know the budget don't justify you have to find the money in the budget because you have to do a continuous stream a lot of money coming it can't be just one-time money you have to actually look at the budget and see if it's sustainable like playing a chair performance that's not sustainable and we really that problem really police of that problem so I just want to clear the space for the public.

Hey, one more time. How many police officers do we have? Eight. Okay, so that's roughly probably like, each police officer probably get like 1,104 hours overtime a year. So if you do that on a rough end, what's the average, what's the base pay of the police officers? 17, 12 hours, y'all. i did it i did it eight times 25 that's 220 220 000 over time but we won't we're not paying them i'm trying to figure out that's how we're spending it yeah that's perfect because we doing we doing each officer work 84 hours every two weeks there's four hours of overtime each goal is awesome they automatically yeah that was like this one i was doing a basic face made up i'm looking around 25 dollars out cheap um i was just trying to see how we get to 900 000 based on our police officer we can include overtime so each police officer get four hours right every two weeks that's i guess that's that's that's yeah that's not any of the other old times if i can like each police officer

hours overtime that's just that's based on the board it's way more i mean i almost speak with the chiefs and that's what he wants on average are we saying without the extra work you're doing mr smith yes sir

So point of information, would you elaborate on what you just said? Would you answer, I know you're not department head, but you kind of answer Councilman D. Gray's question, because I think you're right on what I've been talking about.

Right, but Mr. Gray, you were doing it at four hours of overtime per officer. According to the chief, they're doing way more than four because of the short staff. I'm not sure what's the average. They're doing five on. Two hours. So what are they averaging?

That four hours of overtime is kind of like when you cheat. We're just telling people that this is overtime that they're going to get regardless. This is overtime that they're going to get every pay period.

Yeah.

I've been working in extra days.

Right.

Extra days.

It's not. It's not. Yeah. Yeah. Because I want to know.

I was going on like seven days. So I was doing it.

So I guess TV probably should give them, uh, some type of report on these extra days that these officers may be working in addition to what they have. I think Mr. Gray is trying to calculate that gap.

If you do the eight officer times their base pay, you just do a base pay, right? Give me that number. Strictly base pay only. What would your number be? like so if you do just six at base pay what would it be what would it be for 20 years because i'm only 17 i was around and someone you're going to be in between probably 38 to 40

You're saying what the salary is going to be, right?

Yep.

It's going to be around $38,000 to $40,000. I would go on the low end and say $38,000. All of them don't make the same. Some of them make...

I had to balance the budget.

I just did historical numbers and extrapolated from that. But yeah, you are absolutely correct. But we get there when we, you know, there should be somebody and if that's the case, we got to be spending it where it's coming from.

I can make this decision that the administration will recommend as we go. That's what the purpose of doing quarterly revisions. But because that's the way, because if we, the first category that's under, that's 10%, when we're supposed to be at 25, those are the targets.

But you've got to balance one of these questions over at the table. Because I didn't say that we're under the table to see what the chief thinks. You spoke about the chief. Because I just budgeted over. The numbers I got in my calculation was like $2.3 million. But your project is spending for the police department is $909,500. So what do you get in the numbers? Just sold it, Dan. Why would you want to store it? He can give you the information. Because I just said, he just told me this. He just told me each office goes $48,000. You said $48,000. I bought it. 40,000 miles. So we got six off, right? We should do it at the base. We're going to do this. We're going to do this. 40,000 times six. That's one. Every time for you. So what did you do? Because you asked the question.

If I made historically, well, our budget would have been 2.1 to 2.2 million. Historically, that's what our budget really is.

It's on the high end. You're not on a budget right now. Now, if you do them four times, too.

No, that's 240,000. The inputs that we've been given is based on the store, right? Again, there's some outliers that weren't contemplated that Chief and I hadn't talked about. But, again, it's a good starting point in regards to developing the budget for it, just to know.

Yeah, because when he was talking, I did, my name was wrong, but we talked about 40,000 times, six to eight hours a year, and that's like 320 grand in eight hours. But we're spending almost $20,000 on overtime.

No, that's... If you do it, that's not...

If you do it, overtime...

$40,000. That's $320,000.

Yeah, it should be average, I would say, between $200,000 to $275,000 on that range, if you look at it. Which is a good thing to do when you're talking about developing a budget. Overestimate your expenditure or underestimate your revenue.

Yeah. It's actually cheaper from previous years because it was the one point something. That's why I was seeing where you get the numbers from. I mean, I'm not.

They've been historically overflated, too. We got to understand that, too. Yeah, but all the budget from previous years have been overstated. So, again, I always took that five-year actual more so than what was actually budgeted because there's more of a. with the information that you have at the time. So with that being said, that's kind of part and parcel of looking at what's going on over the last two fiscal years. We're going to be within that certain range, the same range. As we look at what's been changed in this budget, we move in about, let me go back to it.

Jay Green? Chief. Yes, sir. We're going to move on to something.

We, you know, we got this problem with crime in the city. And when I first got on the couch, we got some, we got some breadwinners of candidates throughout the city. And then a few months ago, So my question is, roughly, how many cameras do we have up and running that can see inside the city of Madison? We got 21 cameras in the city of Madison. Did you order some more or did you count them?

I wanted some, yeah, well, I think it's 24 more on the way.

Well, I guess my question is, we got cameras up and running, working on the police, but because you don't know, I, this guy, account for a lot of them go to big cities. So my thing about it is, we got all these cameras, Do we have anybody that's going actually looking and monitoring the cameras? Or do we, they just acting like Steven wanted. They there, but they can't see. We use them all the time. Well, my thing about it is, and I guess what I'm getting at, and that's what I'm talking about, streamlining the budget. But we might have to get somebody that their job is just to monitor those cameras, because that will save the police officers a lot less work when you've got somebody that's dedicated to that because all these shooting and all this and we got 21 cameras my goodness and we ain't seen nothing well i think that we we've probably seen some i just don't know i mean they don't pick up let me finish a lot of the questions because it's very uh it's very serious because we got you know Not just on your watch. You know, he's a police chief. Like I tell you, when you're the captain of the ship, everything comes to the captain or the co-captain. The mayor is the captain. You're the co-captain. This is your department. We got a lot of unsolved murders. And I don't want people to think before you was chief, right? This is way before super seizure attack. But it don't matter. That's what I'm saying. We want to make sure that our police department, we got them strategically to win. You know, you got your detectives and all that. So I'm saying if we can get the cameras up and going to act as law enforcement to see something, we can have our police officers probably doing something else. Because we got a lot of unsolved stuff that we got to let people know that they're not forgotten. Like, you just don't want to just two or three years and say, this is a city of bastards. If you wait them out, you'll get away with the crime. That's the thing I keep harping on, the money. We've got to streamline in these cameras. We've got to strategically place them in our crime areas, and we've got to monitor them. There's no sense in having something if you don't monitor it. We didn't have enough. Well, Bastrop, small town of Bastrop, you've got 20 cameras, 21 cameras, and that's a lot of cameras for a small town. For a small, yeah, for a small city.

I didn't say we had 21 locations. You're asking how many cameras we had. I said we had 25 cameras.

Well, I mean, you got up in function. No, I said how many cameras do you have up in function?

21. That doesn't mean that we have 21 locations. We have 21. Some of those cameras have four cameras. Some of these locations have four camera heads on them, four cameras.

So, I mean, well, I don't want to put you to these feet. Let me break it back to you because I'm just being a lay person because that was kind of, that was kind of right push. That was kind of the right hand, technically, but you know what I'm referring to. How many locations, not cameras, how many locations within the city of Bastion are those cameras located?

right at 18 locations and if you got 21 so i think with two or three on one time some of them have double cameras that's fine people wanted to say you got 21 location well i guess what i'm getting at is i think i want to get into day-to-day operations I think it's a public safety.

Of course, because I got about 20 calls on my phone in Texas. People want to know why we're not doing nothing about crime. I didn't ask you where the county is located. I mean, we have a function in the city. And you said we got two or three on there. And you said we got 20. And I just asked you. I'm in location. I didn't ask you specific location, but I could give you my recommendation. They should be in high crime areas. So I'm not trying to get into where they're located because I want all criminals caught. In order for the bears to grow, we've got to solve crime. And the big guy in the sky is part of it. So, I mean, we're trying to get out. What's up? You know, when you say we can't want to get out, it's hard to retain officers, but it ain't hard to retain and keep the cameras up and going. What I'm getting at is sometimes you have to think outside the box. And I think the cameras will be a great deal. I just want to make sure that we monitor them and that we strategically put them in location. So that's a good thing, what I was just saying. Because, I mean, these people won't question and answer. And I just I told him I was going to ask the chief. I'm answering. You give me an answer, and the mayor give me an answer, and all that. So people heard the chief. They know we got cameras up. But some people don't believe it. We had to pop out and show them. We got cameras.

He was the favorite man we saw for many crimes. For many crimes.

That's all my questions. Anybody else got a question? Not the chief. But I got one more question. Yes, sir.

Well, yeah, I would go down. I don't want to do it.

I was going to go straight down to your question about the reason why I was going to go straight down.

And if you have questions on those areas, we are just having to have the council do it because again everybody might not have questions on every department so it just depends on how y'all want to do it whatever works no no whatever y'all want to do because if you only have questions those answer your questions yeah we know there's a revenue um we i think we get accomplished for me Again, administrative expenses, they start on page two, line 88 through line 171. Again, the administrative budget is $4.2 million, which is a 26.5% reduction. Again, I did propose two amendments for administrative expenses. Again, that's moving that budget Line page 2, line 89, increasing that 10,000, line 91 on page 3, reducing that 10,000, and just rolling that into regular salaries.

Oh, yeah, that's one particular one that I've heard of. If you want to add anything? remember if you want to add in my 89 and 90 that'll give you your projected spending for suppose would you give an in the end of this this year could be a june 30th because you get your budget you project to spend 936. so if you add my 18 89 and 90 uh or you have something then you got part-time employees Did it give you roughly the 956? I'm not sure what the 10,000 was.

Well, the 10,000 was just because there was somewhat a little bit of overtime. But just to cover the basis, just in case there's some extraordinary opportunities for overtime, again, if they're not able to flex in the comp time, it's just to adequately prepare just in case, you know, third, fourth quarter, there may be some issues with overtime. So, again, that's just a cautionary measure and, you know, appropriate money in that category. But historically, there's not been a whole lot of overtime. Again, I just balanced the budget. And that was just one of the categories that was left off.

Yeah. I like 991, not adding to 89. Where do you want to put it? You don't have to put it on the page. Right now, it's going to be the expenses don't exceed the revenues. Yeah, I said that. Because it's still going to be in there. No, no. I'll change it.

I'm going to do it. You're going to change it? Yeah. That's the whole thing is to change it.

oh yeah just keep going with that all right so so i'm not sure who to ask this question you are because the administration you are america but um so we did budget 800 8000 you know um we projected to spend nine what time oh you're back on seven okay yeah so you can read on it so we we did we are your project between because i'm sure your numbers are coming from

second quarter but your normal your extra year today normans within second quarter that's uh what you got to understand is that the part-time employees administration that's you that's that's that's a separate to make sure that we account for full-time people so when you get the report you start calculating your numbers it'll match up

you got four-time people like you have five council members you got other four-time people that's where that salary so if you add all those together it's going to be close to what just broke in there like this so that's that's why if you had 89 and you had 89 and 90 together and if you what you projected the spin at the end of it yeah because it's not separated in the current budget yeah so that's why i think you know if you like an angle said before council I'm going to say, if you have to go over, you always come back for the board. Well, you're not choosing, per se, because you're just in the numbers.

So I mean, I mean, I've noted that. So you just keep going. Any other questions?

I'd like to know what employees are included in these administrative salaries.

You have, you have, you have, again, it's full-time or part-time. You got city council, city marshal, you got department. I thought we had, I thought we separated. Oh, we did, not the city marshal, but the city, So you got, let's see, one, two, 13, 14, I'll just, there are, and again, that's in the report. What report? The HR report that I sent to y'all.

I want to report where it was automatically divided up into the park. I don't want to have to go through a report and have to.

Right, move it forward. Mr. Doty has already indicated that I can't go back through that report. But again, it's based on the current employees that are assigned to the admin And when you get to the report, it'd be Department 1, Department 11, Department 2. You got the street. You got the city court. You know, it's just, it's street. I said main street. Main street.

You got it. So we don't, we can't, we don't have an exact number, how many employees that we're pulling out of administrators.

6 minus 5, so that's about 20. And again, I didn't add all those up. Numbers are all what they are, but they are people that we have .

18 is 28.

So this is roughly about 30 employees, 31. And I may miss one or two, but they're 30 something. Again, they're in that report.

All right.

Ricky, you want to go to Edmond or you want to go to? Yes. All right. So everybody, you can probably. Y'all want a little line up. 110. And it's a question. Is this strictly for Jill? Yes. Okay. So I guess the reason, because we live in, I'm sorry. Okay. So when we do just give us the contract, I do their work. Yeah. Yeah. The reason I'm asking is because we budgeted 75,000 and you look into, well, you say you, you're looking to spend a hundred thousand.

Well, that was, again, that was built on based on what was going on prior to that. Cause I was spending, I mean, those numbers are just, you know, it was spending a lot. It's not in the contract.

Prove, I don't know what's in it. Could you say, could you say you're going off numbers, and it's pretty cute, but if we get into the contract with Jill, is it just like y'all contract is like a certain amount? I don't believe it is when you have to go back and reference that one that you're talking about. So I guess that might be legal, so I'm going to turn it on information.

All your Oliver contracts, Okay. And it only needs down from there.

So, it didn't work. It was just a question. Yeah. Because that was in the notes. Yeah. You know, because we had to get the report that he, you know, the report that he gave us when we went in and talked and we had to take his name for writing. Is it safe to say, right?

Yeah.

Okay. Okay. So, let's go to line item 112. And this Streets and Light, Mary, you might answer this one for me. We're looking at $242,000, and you projected it to be $295,000. Sure. And this Enlighten us, like, when it comes to Streets and Light, what do they pertain to? That's the energy cost.

The energy cost has been going up. And then, like, again, you plug in the numbers based on Q3. Okay. You plug in numbers.

I'm going to...

point all anything for the budget back to rick smith it's the feeling it's going to be a company well what i think is asking what we what we what it's for it's not a but i can know when i'm going to to look at the budget we're adopting because we're adopting the numbers that we're adopting now based on what you projected to spend so that's why i was asking because then we with the 295 that we budget for Because the CMF, that's like a consistent spending because it'll sell whatever it pertains to when it comes to 295. I'm going to ask you.

Yeah. I mean, that's the street and traffic. I'm assuming that, I mean, Mr. George, you probably can tell me exactly what that is. That's something y'all been paying for years. And I get it. I'm not sure.

I'm going to ask you a question because we was also told that we only have, what's on one? What's on one? What's on one? different ways so um because i'm asking you it was not a it was just to know what we when we say we don't have one street lights and we say she like we we budget or she likes and chooses you know traffic lights we don't have one traffic light i don't know if that's

I believe that's the one track, like we had to replace everything, the module and everything. The project was previously allocated during the year, but the actual expenditure came when the approval came through and the request for proposals, I believe that's only the previous administration, but I think it finally came due and was paid during the budget cycle that we had. I remember that to be the figure we had in the module. But yeah, that's the figure for the, I believe that would be the figure for the street light that we actually did have to replace. So we had to go in and we had to replace the whole computer system. I don't know why we bridged it again.

That's what I'm pointing out. Absolutely right. We've been looking at this for like tracking this for two or three years. And it keeps being here over and over. We got away from them. a red light, we put a four-way stop sign in there. So I had to discuss the last year. I'm like, why do they keep putting this in here? And it don't even make, it should be stricken out.

It should be down to zero. Now, you don't want to do this because it's also the street side, isn't it? That's why I'm saying it.

He's like, keep going, keep going. What I'm saying is, that right there, it says street and traffic lights.

Right? Streets. It's a broad statement. It can fall anything. That's why I'm here asking questions. A lot of stuff can fall on the streets, if I'm not mistaken. That's why I'm asking what it would pertain to when we're saying streets.

Well, Mr. Jones said last time, Mr. Betty Harper said, we had two. One, two. And we gave away one and we was always, and we ended up with another one is because they went to bed and we took over one. And I asked the question, if we can't replace the one about the liquor store and the four-way stop, because it was so awesome. We can't replace that.

Why don't we take on another? This is another item on here. Then you go X, Y. I'm asking the question. I'm asking about streets. This is a fence. So we can cut out a fence. And you ask me, we can move to somewhere else. That's the point of why I'm asking. Because it's the question I'm hearing. Do you want me to get to this? Yeah, it's up to you.

Again, that is an expense that's been on the books. And I have no reason or information to take it out because we're still preparing the cost.

I feel your reason. It's been on the books. By being here, we've been on the books because they didn't put it in the journal. It just allocated a special thing knowing you wouldn't know you. What do you call them moving the money? It's been, it's been there for ever since I've been on the council. It's always had that street light and stuff and I had the whole like, let's know.

Can I just put this is rocking on my hair. So the reason I was asking. What's the 295 for? Because then I was going to go to my question on 315. And then, sorry, you don't want to answer the question.

So let's go to the 315. We have zero. We originally did zero. And then we projected to spend $100,000 on a pool.

And the reason I'm asking, because now we budget the next current discount. Currently, you're coming up with 25,000 and we need more money to get the pool up and running for the kids. So now we can take away from the street lights if we don't need the 295 and put it over to get the other one for the pool. That's probably safe. Because if we don't reduce that expense for streets and tractor lights, then we can put this on the more recreational for our kids. But I don't know how to move it. I don't know if the administration need it. So it was like Devin said, the 295, we already fixed it. So while we budget another 295, hey, let's give you opportunity, our demonstration opportunity to get the pool up and going. So what was going on with the $100,000? How far did that take us with the pool? Because we utilized $100,000 for the pool. So do we need another $100,000? We don't really need the 295 for the streets and traffic lights. Let's put that elsewhere for these benefits.

I get that, but we still, we spending money, again, I'm going to see if I can pull this in GFA. We're still spending money in that street and traffic light. There's certain line items, if there were, if it was in the budget prior to this coming in, I kept it in. If we were spending money out of it, I don't have a justification for removing it. I'm not going to remove it. So give me a second, I can pull it. Again, I don't know exactly where you are.

Your year-to-date. Right. Your year-to-date. But see, but then it also, we spend the money, but I don't know if that's what was right to what he just said, us replacing one particular tracker light. Because your year-to-date, even though you gave me numbers from February, your year-to-date, at that moment, from July 1st to February, the administration spent $193,000 on this particular line, right? So, I mean, you're looking forward to spending another $101,000. See, that's what's going to go in. So now you just jotted in your book. But at some point, at some point, you're not going to be able to answer this question because if you just jot down numbers, then if you say, now I'm about to, we're going to spend another $101,000 on wood. I want you to get that number. You have to have some support that you're going to spend $101,000. Correct. So what are you spending for $101,000? Because apparently you have that number. What you're doing is tracking what you already spend. But see, now when you said right, so now if you go to your protected spending, that means that you are going to spend that $101,000. Because then you would have the $295,000.

Right, because it's based on this data that's historically coming in. So again, I don't know when this line item was originally on your expenditure report for admin. It was in there when we got it. We spent the money out of the category. So here again, I'm trying to pull it.

We steered those money for this administration. This is where we are. We don't want to get into the no rules. They are phrased as Americans. So where we are now is in, okay, so, you know, Captain Jones said that was 295 for the fact that, like, that we don't need to repair it again if we just repair it. So now it's 295, so do the administration need it? If we need it, hey, let's put it back to help out with some other things, other questions that are more recreational, because everybody gets it. The goal is, because Councilman Green also asked Chief Foyle, hey, maybe hire somebody to strictly wash the cameras. So if we can cut down on expense, that's where you can add it somewhere else. But we won't know anything. try to pull up we already saved ten thousand that's ten now we're gonna move into the waiting and everything i don't know how much you're facing about four times just watch cameras what i'm trying to do is just me speaking for myself make my suggestion that's it everything we know you can get me out the way

So that's why when we was talking last time, because he was going to answer, Jay, and then, see, that was confusing to me.

See, when it was confusing to me, well, we projected the budget for them. Because when you say you projected the budget for them, it's something that you see on your end that's saying that you're going to spend this amount of money. Well, no, because he said projected spending. That means that, Jay, that's what he said. So listen, so what we, I guess my alarming point is what you budget for and you projected spend and you change your, now you change the new budget to what you projected spend. So that's what I'm trying to see. Is this going to be the same expenditures for this current year that we're going to go into?

But I want to know without asking that question. The short answer is yes, because it's based on Yes.

Yes.

which is has the current value in it all right well you know one thing in the 295 we're not we're not replacing another trade with a point of inflation mr mr mr brennan is right i'm looking at what are you looking at because i'm pulling something up i'm looking at one of the invoices and they have several different but that's that's four that's the interesting reason that's not good

I need to find out.

Because if you don't say that, then we won't pay. We got Andrew. I'll see. I'm trying to listen. You got to be up there.

Attorney Jones over there. Why are they getting this? We don't speak right away.

And you're right, because I'm looking at what they're spending out of it. I've got to go back and look years past because we had this conversation with Jones. We was wondering what this money was here. And they said, the previous administrator said, we need this to prepare real life. They weren't spending nothing else out of it because it was set aside. But we actually spending stuff out of it.

So, see, here's the thing. You cannot, you cannot, you cannot say. Streets are sort of fun and to place it into like park. So this particular item is on the administration, but that's what I'm saying. It can fall on. You can read me wrong, but you can. If you had a particular eye on administration, you can fall on anything that's administrative, right? It's general policy. Yeah.

So it didn't have to be. And then when they came, they said, we actually had the money. It was going to cost so much to keep repair, but like,

We couldn't keep doing it, but they kept putting it in here over and over. And I'm like, this is for street lights and red lights. It's not a street light, we don't really have one. So I'm like, Ms. Locke, you got me thinking. So what are we spending it on now? We used to just, it just was sitting out by itself. You're paying the utility people. It should be, whatever you put in there, it should still be in there if you ain't using it, if we haven't used it for real life.

What is that going to be used for? We have that. Can you just say, can you just say, can you just say, can you just say, can you just say, can you just say,

You know what?

Can I share something?

You know, when I was speaking about the year today, that's why I was kind of like, If it was a more closer date, you know, it would be a more easier answer to answer. Because then you know what those numbers are.

I have a point of information.

And I'm looking, we're looking at actual year to date actual from 2-28-26. So what is the last time these numbers were current? Are they current now? So we would have current year to date.

Current unit dates is a snapshot that is required to develop the budget. The projections are based on the actual, and the only column in this budget that's going toward projections is G. What I'm anticipating based on Q3, projected out to the end of this year. It's just an assumption based on current training. When you put it in there and you do a five-year action, you'll see what that number is. for that particular agri-capital. And then if it's somewhat skewed from G, then you look at, then I say, okay, well, what's causing it to go up? Again, one example is benefits. They've been going up this way. So the five-year actions are going to be way less than the current trend of two years. So I look at the last two years, and I average them, and I pop that number. So these are just projections. These are based on historical data only.

I guess to know where we actually are with these numbers, we need current numbers. February, we're in the end of June. Where are the current numbers? Are there current numbers?

You will have current numbers when we do close out for Q4. There is no way possible to be able to give numbers to pass a button before June 30. Even if things were posted same day, all day, that's still probably, you know, at least a week or two variance to where, you know, okay, if we did close out or did it at the end of May, take seven days to get those actuals because you got to have time for the posting. Then we got to advertise it. Then we are right here where you don't have time to do it. Because here again, whether I do a Q3 at the end of February, do it at the end of March, end of April, you still got to project to the end of the year. It's a projection. So whether I project for remaining 12 weeks or remaining six weeks, again, the fewer number of weeks, the more accurate it will be. but it's not saying that the 12 year, the 12 week projection is not going to be the same as the six week. It's just, I can't argue that it's not going to be more accurate than waiting, you know, two weeks out, but we don't have the luxury to do that. And the budget act don't require us to do that because again, you're supposed to amend your budget periodically. Anyway, these budgets are assumptions that you're not going to have anything concrete. Because that budget don't work like that. You know, again, I can tell you what sales tax is for this year, but if the economic conditions are not the same for an entire month, it either can be more or it can be less. And the foothold will be if the economy tanks. If we give instead of $60 million in sales tax, four. How am I going to project that? You can't. So that's what I'm saying. You do the best you can with what you have and knowing that all these numbers are essential. they're not gonna be spot on because guess what? They give us a 5% standard deviation.

That's the point you have to adjust. And Ricky, you're actually right. But column E is actually here today. It's actually what we're doing right now. It is supposed to be real time. So my question is, are we current? Are we reconciling? Are I mean, are we doing our due diligence?

That is not correct. The columns that you have to have, go to the budget.

By now, you're talking about the budget act. I'm talking about our current year-to-date numbers, year-to-date. Are our numbers coming? Have we reconciled? Have we done what we're supposed to do?

The current year numbers for the closeout year, I haven't run them. Yeah, so what she asked me, this is what she asked me. So the question is, I don't know if that's right.

So the number, so let me try to recognize you. That's one of the law.

Just take it back.

That's insane. E is not an actual figure of money that you've used up there?

No, it's actual as of year of date. I'm sorry. It's as of that date, I'm right on it. Okay, February 28th. So now my question is, I'm just putting this out.

We have spent, all right, maybe $93.70 for- That pig line I was talking about yesterday.

oh no yeah that's what you said 193. 193 correct that's what that's what i thought you have an invoice yeah that's why i'm trying to pull up i'm just reporting when i run the front report that line that's what it gives you see and then we're trying to backtrack so i can read to you what the invoice said so i can answer mr green's question so now i'm figuring so now now i want to

following, because I think when I was speaking, I was told we really had this on the station, so it be going to my head. So now, so when, just take that particular line that we on, you see that it's budget 242, right? Y'all see that at the time of barrier, $193 was spent. See, now when you see the reminder of 101, but then you have projected spending of $299, You just said, now projection is an assumption, but when you increase the budget, how do you know it's going to increase by $20,000?

Because I was just projecting. What I did was you look at, I think that was 34 weeks. That date represents 34 weeks. So we got 52 weeks left. So what I did was I averaged that 34 weeks was spent per week. How many weeks left? And that's what that number, and then you add them together, that's how you do it.

So now my question would be, what did you see from to make you say, hey, well, now we need to increase the budget for the 50 years going forward, but we don't only need to do the 2.2, we gotta do the 295. I'm gonna go to the Q3, because I've got it this time.

Number five. Q3, for that line item. The 65% was the target based on that end year to date thing.

We can do it. We can do.

So actually that number was at 63%. So I actually reduced it to 295. Because based on the year to date from the amended budget, it was less than that.

Again, we did that Q1. And again, we inherited the numbers and we just used them and we just rolled on with it. So again, that was at 63%. That's just to give you a snapshot of what the projection will be. That should have been at 65, okay? So to project it out for what we anticipate with the projections should be what's at 65 minus 100, that's 35%. So what I did was 35% should be what's been for the remainder a few weeks in the physical year and that's what that number represents in that column um in that column f you know so you add f and e that's how you get g and i'll use g in my five-year actuals to get a projection so whether i did it at week 34 or week 42 or week 50 it still should be the same

i mean i know like how you get you when my question would be asking is what are you seeing in real time to make you to make you say i know what you were seeing in real time as a fair bird yeah because you had the numbers for that right but given so just like i said the last meeting it's a four months difference right now what are you seeing now they said oh well it's going to be additional because almost on your end

based on the average, see it, based on the five years.

You can't go to two-year previous because everybody just said that for the past couple years that just to pick a line, it was never been EULA. I don't think that's true, but I can go back to that. I'm not looking. Right. I've been asking y'all for a long time, so I don't want to go over this.

All I can say, it was in the budget. that we inherited and I think it was in the budget before that. I don't know how far out it went, so it might be two-year average, might be three-year average, whatever it was, it was an average.

So in hindsight, so do you see what is the particular line, so you see that it's going to be best to keep it at 2.95?

Based on the historical data, yes. Because it should be within a 5% variance one way or another, either up or down. Point of information. People, for example,

weren't you looking at stuff? What did you spend up at the third quarter? What documentation did you have to show that you spent that 193? What would you spend it on? I run the report. Whatever's inputted in the system. What? What? I'm going to ask you again. Maybe somebody else can answer. What was it spent on? I don't know.

We're trying to find the invoice so I can tell you. Oh, that's what I'm waiting on. Yeah. I've been trying to engage in that and do this at the same time. Oh, you say you ran a report? Yeah, I ran a report, and the novel's been an input.

So you ran a report, and give you, I don't want to give me an extra unit date right now, if you're just running a report.

Yeah, I can't, I don't know how long it would take, but it, do you want me to find an input? No, I can't, but it...

I'm asking the administration what we...

You can zero it out. But here again, I didn't go and independently verify an expense that's been on the books before we got it. So I can't just use it. But if those bills come in and there's a repercussion that we don't pay it, I'm not trying to end in that debate. Because if we get

i guess i can't agree with you on this because when i asked you about the expenditure part of it we we ain't saying it but i'm telling you when we look back we went through with that red light and that's been john i mean mr jones even said it

That was for that red light. And he said that we spent money on it. But I think, I'm thinking back, we didn't do that. We just, we asked Ms. Alford. She just decided it was going to be too much, too much upkeep. We saved $200,000 for red light. And he's spending this kind of money every year to upkeep one red light. So what I'm saying is something else is being paid out of this one. I don't mind it. uh item besides the street and traffic light because that's 193 we don't have any lights so something is being paid out of it like element green alluded to if we can get rid of this and and maybe this maybe this money will fall on the streets but you got a lot of street money listen to what i'm saying is we can erase it without like you see i'm saying whatever projects they've been paying for If you show me what they paid for, I can tell you if it came out of street funds or whatever. It could have came out of street funds. Because we got a tax for street funds. And this is street tips. That's what I'm telling you. It should have been in the street. This here is itemized out because it was for red lights. It was for street lights and red lights. That's why you don't see it over in street funds. You follow me?

Right. And the other one of the questions early on is why it's not in the streets. Well, here again, that was a line item that was already in the budget prior to coming in. And there's current expenditures being spent out. Why would I question whether or not those expenditures are valid? Why would I question whether or not they're going to the future? I guess the question for you is not correct. Can I find out what we did? She's going to try to pull the invoice so I can just tell you. I can just look at this entry and we've been paying it and there should be an invoice. And again, all these payments are bills and claims. Everything that you get, every input that I have for the budget when I run these numbers, the inputs y'all get every month. So this information is in bills and claims.

If I had a bill and claim from last month,

Flip it, I can tell you exactly what it is. And who came. Who came for me and Jim, I can tell you exactly what it is. Because all the information that I get when I hit that report, y'all get every month. Because all this stuff is in bills and claims. All expenses are in bills and claims. So there's nothing that comes in the report that I give y'all towards these budgets that y'all don't already have.

Absolutely. I'm assuming you guys worked on that.

Yes, you can pull the invoice and see exactly what it is. It should be more than just that.

Yeah, it's got to be more than just that one invoice. Because again, the original budget was 242, right? And then it was quickly amended in 401 to 295, right? No, it was more than that.

It was more than that because it ended up in Q3, it was a reduction. I don't have that one in front of me. It was a reduction.

What I'm looking at right here, it says the original budget is 242, right? And then column E says actual year-to-date. That's 193. That's what you spent. So in between the original budget and the actual year-to-date, there had to be a reason why it needed to be increased.

because of the rate that it was going. And it actually was the ultimate decrease because the original, but again, those original numbers, we inherited. So I can't justify those numbers because I don't know where they came from. All I can tell you is when we put the village together, because the only thing we really fundamentally changed was salad. If you go back and look, that's the only thing that we kind of stripped out because we knew they were very overinflated. Everything else, that's the reason why there was the issues with the street, we ended up having to take those things off. Those things we kept because we had no rhyme or reason to say, hey, I'm going to take this out. For what? We didn't have any reason to keep it. I mean, to take it out, we had all the reasons to keep it because we don't want to take something out of the budget that later is an expense. And then y'all come in, well, why y'all take that out of the budget? So we did. So I can't really, when I'm asked questions about the original budget, I can't really say it other than my projection is based on the actual and It's just a, it's not an exact science because budgeting is not an exact science. So, you know, saying that this number I'm projecting, we're here, that's 34 weeks out. And you're telling me that if I give you numbers 50 weeks out, of course, it's going to be more accurate. But it should be within that 5% deviation, which at the end of the day, that's what we are plotting. A standard deviation is either 5% up or 4.5% up or 4.5% down, and you're good with the budgeting. So here again, with that standard deviation, I'm confident in going with the sterile numbers because if it's out of whack before the end of the year, we're going to fix it because we're going to see it. Like that one was 63%. It should have been at 65%. It was an ultimate reduction in Q3. So that's why I'm saying these numbers, I mean, I don't know how to say other than what I keep saying is based on history. are an assumption. And Mr. Green, if the perfect world, I will give it to you two weeks. You know, we have to post it 10 days. I'll give the actuals to you 12 days before that. I mean, 15 days before that. Then run it to where I won't be no more than four weeks out. If we didn't care about not having an audit finding, then we can do budgets. in August, every year, and it'd be perfect. You have 100% of it, because guess what? At the end of the day, it'll be closed out. It's a reason why they allow us to make these projections, because I can give you an absolute more accurate budget in August than I can give you in March, or even when I give you the proposed budget. But if we don't care about the part-time, let's do it. Let's do it. I'll wait until the fourth quarter. We close it out. I'll give you actual, then that will be 100% more accurate than I give you. We can do that. But what I'm saying is that ain't how it works. But again, I'll do whatever y'all want me to do because, again, I get these numbers based on the information that's inputted. And again, every data point that I have, y'all get every month.

Mr. Riggins, thank you. Thank you for that information. What I'm more concerned about now is the numbers aren't important, but What I'm more concerned about is what it was actually spending on.

Yeah, and we have invoices. Ms. Martha was here, and that question came up. If anybody brought that in to finance, she would be able to tell you. How many times has she asked, but what's this right here? And she would put an invoice to tell you. She's just not here because, here again, we're not at that stage because that's the kind of dialogue that should be going on in finance and not at the proposed budget because We got to have people here to give you an answer. Because I'm just going to tell you, we're spending this money in this category. I just can't tell you exactly what it is. But we got an invoice for it that somebody's going to pull for you.

That's a lot. Let me first of all, I'll just give you exactly what you're saying. Our concern, because we were here last year and we had that same issue. And we want to know about it. It should be eliminated.

I mean, I'm going by what you're saying and what you're saying is true. It should have a sunset somewhere. Maybe this year is a sunset. It's great. It's spot on. In Q1, we do a budget reduction. We got New York City.

You got your answers. You got your answers. Point of information too, Mr. Smith. Point of information. Mr. Law spoke about that. You see, you plug in numbers, right? I don't care if you were up to date. If you had everything up to date now, you still couldn't answer the question I just asked you. You couldn't answer the question, where's the invoice? You're still looking for the invoice. That's the whole problem. We're telling you, before you were in your position, We know what that lighting was for, but now something else is being paid out of it, and it wasn't designed for that. Because when Mr. Jones said it was for the red light, it was all for the red light, because we was like, we didn't realize we didn't have one or two red lights. We were like, why did we send this much aside for one red light? And then when it's time to fix a red light, didn't have the money because they said it was going to be what was it what happened what we have is a couple of imports from uh and these are street lights these two different street lights

and then i i i would say doing q4 was multiple property exactly um these charges but they're different locations for street lights different amounts so they listen so everybody i'm not saying what you're saying it wasn't told to y'all but i got three different inputs from three different locations

the same uh around about the same month and this is more than one street like what point of information i was cooking i was that's the other question but i would keep that information that's for going keep going i'm sorry i was going to say oh yeah if you you got no dead boys in there right now right from interesting okay so what are what are the numbers on those

Part of the reason for what it was paid for and when.

This is from, this is current. This is due, well, it was due on June the 23rd. This was $19,000 at Streetlight. And it has 1A, 1E, 1D, 2D, 2B, 2A. And it got the kilowatt hours and then the amount for each one. Then, of course, you know, they had all these charges. They all said real stabilization. Okay. So, look, I've got one in Days of Commerce, MLK and South Commerce, Highland Road and Vassal Pie. Vassal Pie, what is that? Street Bar. Street Bar. Oh, I said that's one street. Hold on, hold on. That's just counting on the locations. So, yeah, that's the question. Because, again, that's the cost. Again, I can't speak to what we all were told. But just what she's giving me, that's a recurrent cost. Let me actually push. Just take it back.

All right. when we're looking at these just for understanding what the rules are but we're looking at this is when we're looking at heat it's a real time number yeah that's the actual as of that day that's why that's real time that's real time though so the next question is it possible is it possible if you send energy it might be coded wrong you would take it out this line i don't know because the only invoice is six street like here again

I'm just kidding. During the next, if you find Anthony, we can get Ms. Monica to be able to ask all those questions. Because here again, if it's something that's on a sunset, she'll be able to tell us. Point of information, Mr. Brick.

Yes, sir. You think we, do you think we got red light or street light in all those places you just? No, I was just going by that. What I'm looking at may not be what I'm looking at. It's not that. We have two street lights that we, um, responsible for.

You just called out about five or six. And again, I'm just going by what's this. I don't know what's what. Ms. Monica, if I had to tell you, because again, no number. It could be Ms. It could be Ms.

I don't know. It could be Ms. Cohen. Because we don't have those men in the red light. You just called out.

No, no.

Pull back. I just told you. Well, tell me what's true, like, that I'm missing that you talked about.

no no when i gave you i'm looking at gfa i'm just going by the account and just add those names so you see stop but the first stop is like that ain't street lights locations those are the accounts and they just named you there so there may not be there's an interview of this product well it could well you have injury in other places That could be energy bills, coal to ground, it could be. Awesome. But again, when I run the numbers that I inputted, that's what I got. So the question is, is it finance when you do a bills and planning? Ms. Monica, who does that, she'll be able to tell you, and she can verify whether that's been miscalled. I can't tell you, Ms. Cole.

And maybe I can make it a little simpler for you. Tony Jones was here when all this transpired. You probably said, why is it not in streets? All right. Because it wasn't designed for streets. We had one red light or two red lights. That's why it was broken out into streetlights and red lights. That's why I put, am I right, Mr. Chairman? That's why I wouldn't open these streets. It was separated out, it was segregated out to stand alone. So if something happened to that red light, we had the money already appropriated and advocated for it. Now, I don't know what can transpire since then, but just think about it, Mr. Smith. If it would, at that point, it would be in streets. It's segregated out just in case something happened we wouldn't have to go find the money because it was already set aside specifically for the red light. It was not designed for nothing else.

So what this property is, this property, that was put in there for that particular street lighting. But at the same time, energy bills. So the name property needs to be changed. And again, it was my commitment to tell you exactly what's what because we may just have to change the name.

Because what I'm getting at, we talk about streamlining and spending. So what Deep Ridge is right. If you can Instead of spending out of this, if it's in streets, you can spend it out of streets. And that money can go into the general fund and fix your pool or whatever you want to do.

But if what you were saying was true and the nature of the spending for those streetlights sunsetted and they're still using this title, the title should probably be updated. I can tell you right now, the energy bill that we're paying, some of that is probably that, if not all. Yeah, I mean, energy is a monster. Again, it's good that you pointed it out, because now, you know, build Q1, we could do a deep dive in it, and if that line item title needs to be changed, and we audit everything that's going in there, and if it's all energy, we just need to put, you know, utilities energy, and keep it going. You know, so... And that's what a lot of times I've noticed and you'll see here and there, I've changed titles to certain things because they shouldn't be called what they call. And cause this confusion on his face. One of them is a, uh, that I changed to give you an idea. Viola reimbursed us dollar for dollars for certain costs. If you go and you look at it, I showed it to you that I renamed it because it's not a true expense because you know, we billed them back. So they, we paid $50,000 worth of this expense. You're going to see on revenue side, $50,000 because they reimbursed us. It was named incorrectly because it was, was, was seen like we paid for it and not being reimbursed. So this could be one of those things. And again, we're going to further streamline some of these things and eliminate some of these object capital because a lot of these are redundant, unnecessary, and they can be, Like I said, I'm looking at one. I probably can merge four of them to be one. And that's probably what needs to happen. But that's a good question, Mr. Green, because that may not be something that's going to totally fall off. It's probably a line item that should have been something separate from this. And when that, I guess, repair ended, it should have went away.

Councilman Doty? Mr. Smith, did you say we had a light? No, no, no.

I missed. I just was reading what was on here. Ms. Monica will be able to tell you exactly what's what.

I don't know what it was that you had in your hand.

It didn't happen at all. I was reading from GFA. Stop me because that may not. I may not read right. I don't want to confuse you because I'm not the one that's because I don't input anything.

Okay, yeah, let's go to line 132. And then now I can, you can sign your projection on this one. So we budgeted $4,000 for 25 community unit date as a period of 28, which is real normally $146,411. is the remaining $54,589, which projected to spend, for this particular line item that was budgeted at $4,000, projected to spend $201,000. Then for the current year, the 26-27 when we adopt them, we're having an increase by $71,000. That's the question. Why are we increasing that by $71,000?

You got to look at, and this is why I'm glad you brought that up, because that's one of those things that we consolidate and eliminate. You go to line 135, look at that amount. was again that was what was originally budgeted that those expenditures should have gone in 137 because those will not prepare maintenance to any equipment so that's where that's where that change comes in to like okay you take that put that there because that 4 000 was wrong and the 135 line 135 to 136 was I would say $4,000 wrong, but that $136,000 and the $4,000 should have been $1,000. You're telling me, so you're taking me back to $135,000.

You said repair and maintenance of equipment. So you're saying we obliged at $136,000. We haven't used anything. We haven't repaired not one equipment item. Not out of admin.

Again, that money should have been in materials and supplies based on what we look at and evaluate the expenditures. So that means we purchased, we bought the purchased $200,000 worth of materials and supplies? We did. In the current fiscal year, because we bought additions to put into...

I told you that before.

um the last meeting when you said 4 000 i said 4 000 was wrong well in the sense that that 135 shouldn't have been where they shouldn't have had that 136 because the administration don't have equipment to repair like public works so it should have been always put in in my estimation and moving forward it's going to be materials and supplies and that's what it is you know so because just to have some we have to we actually should see those those um purchases because we have to prove that amendment when it's time to adopt a budget yeah but that's assuming that we're gonna have uh fifty fifty four thousand dollars worth of expenditure we may or may not have item you know it'll be up there we're gonna have to adopt the regardless because Yeah. Right. So whatever that calls out is, it's going to be that amount. So we're going to have to.

So that's the hope. So now going forward, you feel that we're going to be purchasing 75,000 worth of material and supplies now? Yeah, based on. You can't go out past prior history based off this particular line. So that's what I'm saying. So going forward to $75,000, that's what we're going to be purchasing for the next fifth of the year. We're going to have to stay within that.

We're going to have to stay within it. Because if we get to a point where we spend more, then something acute happens. Because again, this is for acute stuff.

But also, too, if we do lower this particular expense, if someone oversees it, it's when you come back before us and ask us to allow the administration to spend it. Well, the only question I have is... I get you saying why, but that's what we ask them. It has to be a plan in place so you can... Because we can't go past practices for this particular line because prior to prior to now, it was only budgeting $4,000, but going forward. So this particular line, is it legitimate that we're going to be estimated to be spending roughly $75,000?

And the thing about, to answer your question, I would have to go back to the five-year actuals and see what was in that account that we zeroed out, because they could have been using it. But you can't go back to it.

under what we consider repair and maintenance.

I don't know, they could have been using it for the same thing, but just using it out of that category. I think it's a better expense category to use today. So I'll probably put those two together. I just don't have to file the actions in front of me. So it's a semantic thing. It's all about semantics. Because I'm eliminating line items because we don't need all these lines. Right. And to me, that's a better catch-all to put it in. So, again, if you want to reduce the budget, at this point, it's better to do it during one of the quarterly reviews because you have next year's data to go by.

But also, you know, the moment we just recommend going wrong. So the moment that we adopt, right, we adopt the budget, you can spend up to 75,000 right then. If there's a Q problem that we need, just like I know you're not right.

That is true. Because again, like we had a key problem with the app additions because you know, that's day to day operations, you know, and you don't want to hamstring. And it's a $75,000. We're not talking about $100,000 or $200,000. $100,000 or $25,000 or more?

I don't understand. It's not even about $100,000, but it's $75,000. Actually, we was putting it down and we replaced it. Something more recreational. But if it's the true expense that you see going forward, I don't want to touch it.

Yes, because you're going to always have acute property. Here's the thing. People... When you're doing your budgets at home, you know, you can try to set aside money just in case something happens. Because if you don't, then you have a problem.

Because I can lower it and put that money elsewhere, Ricky, because just based off this particular line I'm in already, we budget $4,000. I mean, the minute we traded it, it's flowing down by $200. So we still can lower it.

But if you spend it where you're moving to, then you're back at the same problem. What problem? If you move, say you reduce this by 25 and send somewhere 50, and by the time the acute problem comes, you spend that 50 that you moved. I'm glad you said that.

Just look what just happened. You just budgeted this particular online with $4,000. So acute problem happened. You still spent $201,000. I didn't put the $4,000 in. But I'm saying it. So you can't say it can't happen just because the budget is low, right? Just say if I put this amount at $10,000, right? And then the administration runs into an acute problem and you still, it shows you still over and spend, it's on us to say, hey, we approved that amendment because the administration got paid. Because you can't just, because of the reason why I said it, you can't just say, we holding you to what we are budgeting for because we budgeted for this particular line at $4,000. You spent $201,000. Well, you projected to spend $201,000. So when I'm saying going forward, if I'm going to lower this to $10,000 and move the other $55,000 to food, then if something happens, you're still going to spend it. It's going to have to approve that amendment.

No. Why would we owe it?

You just did. Your administration just did it. I'm telling you. Look at number 136. You blitzed it at $4,000. Year-to-date on your numbers was $146,000. Yes.

In the Q3, I've combined those two lines.

So when we adopt the budget, we're going to be amending this line right here?

No, you're adopting the proposal. The only column that you approve of is that. Other stuff is just what I have to put in the budget. But we're talking about when, because now you've got to come back to us to adopt the amended budget. We're going to do it because the auditor has recommended us to do that periodically. We're coming back to you regardless because that's what we're supposed to do.

So when you come back before the doctor amends budget, does the particular line item be an item that we are mending?

If it's a regular course of things. Then you have to run the course and have special meetings. I'm answering your question based on the numbers, but here again, from a policy standpoint, You got to let, at some point, you got to let the administration run day to day. We are.

We're not busy.

Councilman Dowie.

That same line, 137, you're talking about 4,000, then more, 201,000. That line type was omitted in Q1. Q1 and probably Q3, yes. Yeah, Q1, it was omitted for $201,000. It was omitted to where it's at now, 201,000 in Q1.

went back and i didn't work yeah because that was we combined those two and it was and then it was given the budget authority to be able to buy that yes sir that's because that acute problem came so this one because you put the forward at 136 i think it should have been before we did the the amendment would say that acute problem wouldn't happen right it would have been 140 in that book so so what two times did you compile again now 135 and 137. 135 is on page three. Again, I'm not trying to defend the original budget because I didn't put some numbers together. I just made it just, the only numbers that we changed was everything else I kept. Yes, sir, that's absolutely accurate. That's absolutely accurate. That budget we got inherited. Remember, we got it later. And the only thing that we changed in a significant way was salary. We made a few modifications here and there, and it wasn't until Q1 and then Q3 that we changed. That's a little bit correct. We didn't have any input other than what we changed. The original budget, $4,000.

You made the adjustment in Q1. What he's saying is, When you make the adjustment in Q1, you got the money, where did the money come from? The money came from the base of the money. No, it came from the general fund somewhere. It came from one another line up. I think that's what he's saying. He's saying if you do the budget, if you take it out and you put it in the general fund somewhere, when you go over, you're going to have to get it before the council. He's saying you got nothing on day-to-day operations because Whoever did the budget, regardless, it wasn't $4,000 in there. All of a sudden, you amended it to, you did it to 200 some thousand. The money came from somewhere. That's what he's saying.

The council approved because we had to spend it in other places. Yes, sir, that is absolutely right. But here again, it's easier to start from 140,000 to get to $2,010 than it is to get if we only put $30,000 in.

That's my only point. From that standpoint, it's easier to go. For the sake of looking at this budget, just looking at the budget, y'all saying the same thing pretty much. You're saying it's easy to start. It's easy for me to start at the middle of the thing and run down the yard. You just started at the beginning.

This is at the beginning. I'm saying you're saying two different things. Get done.

right no what he said is easier but you said it it ain't right regardless of what you're saying even if you've been doing even if you budget a long quarter you spend score one you still always spend it so there's no difference y'all approve that change and guess what i can just go back to my faith about what the lord is the body going forward to put his money into food to help americans move on and if he was if he runs a true problem in q1 we could do the same thing

If everything is equal, yes. But if that money is gone, then you're at a detriment. That's all I'm saying because you can't have both assumptions. You can't have one assumption, Mr. Green, and not have the other. That's what I'm saying. Those assumptions have to go both ways. One direction.

That's all I'm saying. We're talking about the pool. So the mayor, you'll have to answer this question for me, please.

what point are we at with the pool because we're talking about moving funds are we close to opening the pool no we actually was giving up but we had to stop and uh go ahead and finish boxing park and we're gonna jump back on on the pool house and get it fixed because the roof is messed up and once the pool house is fixed make sure the pump is functioning right. And if the pump is functioning right, then we don't save a lot more money. But if it's not, we have to spend a lot.

So how much money do you think you need? Because we only budgeted like $25,000. You may need more than that. But we're talking about moving money. We need to know like an amount.

And I'll get that. I'll get that. But actually, we've got to wait until we fix the pool house. Then we got to get the hamburger out. So I don't want the workers to cut their hands on it. So I had to get them to the place. Once we do that and figure out if it's the function or not, then we'll know exactly. So it sounds like a great idea to move some money to the pool. I agree. Mr. Gray.

Yeah, well, the reason I would.

The reason, because I come in and I, you know,

I heard administration vision, you know, especially when it's related to some of these benefits to the community. So I was, yeah, I was trying to make a suggestion what to put there so we won't have to run into any issues. But, you know, I think even with speaking from the pool, we did get to do some work there already. Yeah.

And I didn't want to ask no question for you, but I'm working hand in hand with him on that. You know, yeah that's all it is i don't want to ask what you got we do this all right let's go let's go that's it for me administration i still would like to put it down you can't i mean you can't uh

Yeah, I mean, I could put them all in one bag. All right. Yeah. Which one? Oh, material and supply.

Okay.

Now, they just mean just at the end, we, you know, I'm sorry.

Say it again, please. Okay. material supply, supply. What are you talking about? Number, uh, that's 1.37. So this is going to be about coming up. He said, you got to do all this repair. Cause it's all that assumption. You know, we don't try. Get the pump out fixed so when it rains, it won't get on the electric handle. We can change the electric handle out and turn the power on and see how the motor is going. If that motor is still good, then we're good. But if not, we have to do that. Once we do that, we can go to Tyson. What pool do we have?

Have we seen an estimate of what the total number or the actual number would be to fix everything associated with opening the pool?

I know what Council Lady Tappan just asked. We won't know that until we fix the pump house. Once we fix the pump house, then we can get the helmet fixed and once we get the helmet fixed. We can turn it on and see if the motor run. If the motor run, we good. So if not, so at least $25,000, we're kind of going to be dedicated to it. Yeah, to that pump out. Okay, once they're there, then we have to come back. Probably have to go out and put some more money over there. We might be good. No, we're going to wait. No, we're going to wait. We can move it. We can use it in Dyson. Mr. Green, did you want me to put that $10,000 into that pool? Well, original. Yeah, because, you know, he just.

No, I'm talking about from the original agenda that you made on the 7th.

All right, city marshal. Okay. So,

She has three budget positions, right? Yes. Okay. Okay. Well, as far as the salaries, I didn't look at the salaries. And I guess I'm not understanding about the pay. The report I received, her salary is less than her employee's salary. Yeah, I mean, but we don't know how, we don't know any of the details. That's why I wanted a report from each department. But nobody in the department can answer that because she has her own report. I said I was looking at the salaries and her salaries actually list in her employee salaries. So in all to be fair, I was trying to understand the breakdown of how she gets paid You know, so we want to be faithful whenever we do.

Right. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

So I'm glad you're here. And the reason I'm asking, I guess it's for you and Ricky, well, and I previously asked a question and it was to, said Jeff had to do a lot of work this year. So when we went to have our foot, this became an issue for us, City of Marshall. So I want to ask you guys, because Mr. Ricky said, all right, if y'all want to put a budget, I'll define this on you guys. So I want to take this, because it comes to, because this particular department, we talked about inside the audit report, and he asked us, Andrew and I went together, he asked us, how are we funding a department that is in the audit themselves? So how do we know what we should be giving? So I want to ask you guys. All right. I have no idea. He made it clear to me, we need to see about it. So I'm asking you guys. He was telling us about, his question, correct me if I'm wrong. He said that, I don't know, I can't remember how it came up. He was just like, yeah, we need to be mindful of the funding entity because he said we have no control over it once we, once we, Like right now, we have the control over there, but we just, when we're involved, we just send the money. So how we know this is what we should be paying? What they mean is why I'm here.

Well, I know Senator Katrina Jackson, Andrew, and Representative Adrian Fisher told us we have to fund so much to them. Right. They said a dollar amount.

We had to do something. No, but let me kind of, chime in. He wasn't really talking about the dollar amount. He was just talking about the whole process. He said each department should be able to submit an audit based on the things they've done. And I know I've been asking a lot. How many court summons been served? Things like that. He said we should have a detailed report before we run a standalone department like

said we should ask for it hello how long have we been uh yeah let's see um i don't know uh two years now yeah just here yeah he just told me that well well he told us yeah but he never spoke that word no more yeah i mean but you know we didn't let him he told me i believe so and i'm saying it and i'm saying it openly so that's why i asked because

and and the reason another reason why is last meeting you were saying about audit findings and you want to direct them so if we're going to run into identifying based on the situation we listen to our auditors then what do we do and i'm asking that's why x7 was legalized because the reason i said it because and you've been a clue we i got calls and we said the identifying is on you guys and you you said that last meeting so now when Mr. Joe said something about how to find it. And you said, I don't want to be all of you got a reason because in some of the words, we don't have a budget. You said, I'll find them y'all. So now we're just in it. It's just we talking about this budget. Why he said, I don't know.

But just what this guy did. So he said, it's an odd fund to fund an entity that hadn't . He said, how are we doing something? Yes. It was a question. How? So he's saying, if you give them enough money and they're not in compliance, that's the issue? I don't know. I don't remember. Go up to the .

Elspendote?

He asked the question, he asked the question, why were we funding the martial law? And we don't have a detailed report from him. We were either supposed to give a budget or some kind of financial statement. Have they provided anything to the city?

Well, I don't think they prepared a financial statement. Well, he said they should. Yes. So I don't know. I don't even know if they did.

she has some idea of maybe what that is supposed to be but there is some information that is supposed to come up unfortunately having to do with either a financial statement or or a budget there is some information that's supposed to come from the city march process to the uh to the administration and they're supposed to use that in the process of working on their budget

Mr. Jones, because of the market office and how she classified, instead of doing a regular audit, what is that that she has to file? Something like an affidavit? What is it called?

She's under 500,000, and the revenue she can do in an affidavit is an audit, which has to be done, which is historical. It's been done by Ms. Greer. I don't know if Ms. Greer has done it previously.

So that's probably the document that we probably should get. I think so.

So in Revoa, I know Mr. Merrick just asked the question how long he been out of it. We said two years. So we just never was the thing to now. So it's kind of like legally.

Legally, I've discussed this before with other people. Legally, the question I believe is for clarity. is the question that since there is the marshal's offices behind on their audits and not submitted audits, do we have to fund the marshal's office? The legal answer to that is yes. We are bound by state law that came into being in not last session, but the session before that says that we must fund the ordinary and reasonable expenses of the marshal's office. It doesn't say with a caveat that it's an audit. However, not having an audit makes them ineligible for grants and other things like that. You can't pursue state funding grants or anything like that until they come into compliance with the audits. But it does not prohibit us from funding them, nor does it mean that by law, is there an exception?

Mr. Jones, you was here when I was here. You was in the office when we talked to the people in Baton Rouge and you were part of the conversation. If it wasn't for Mr. Jones, the Marshal would not have gotten a dime because the people in Baton Rouge said that law that was passed was not designed for veterans. specifically it was designed for standing alone martial arts they couldn't afford their life insurance and all that other stuff but first of all here they said y'all are doing way more than that because you pay all the salaries you pay all that people i'm telling you what i'm saying what they said on the phone this is not here They said, you're already doing it. So if you do anything else, they said, thank you, because you don't have to do nothing else. This was not designed for a city like Bastardville. It was designed for small municipalities who the Marshall Law was shutting down because they couldn't afford to stay open. So somebody got with the legislators. You know how it works. And they said it was meant to be. And it's offered out, it's called. And that's why she went and measured the square footage of the office, did all the light view, computed, computed the phone, and said, we're paying way too much. As far as everything that we've done, it's true fact. The attorney is not here right now. I already know. We've been in compliance. I've just been trying to just say, hey, let's send $8,000, just be thankful. You know, instead of letting, boom, $190, something because, If it wasn't for Mr. Jones, just really just saying, okay, myself and the council, it would be like, we already doing it because we already paying the salary. So it's not like that we're not doing what we are always supposed to do. Ms. Jackson was right. You know, Mr. Fisher was right. But when you start doing your due diligence and you start calling the state, we already in compliance. So my thing about it is I don't, nobody, no audit being turned in and all that other stuff. But I'm looking, and my point is, when I said I wanted her to speak, because when I look at these numbers and you break down the number, I just gave you everything that we paid for, and we paying for all the salaries, we paying for the healthcare and everything else. So my thing about it is that we supplying all your needs and everything, like 98% of your budget, All I ask for is to see the expenditure, see what are you spending out of your office, and what kind of income that you're bringing in. So therefore, remember we talked about waste of spending, and we talked about tightening up the budget, because we want to fund our own police department. So we already doing what we said we was going to do, and we already meeting our obligation. So therefore, I would ask you, Mr. Rickey, don't continuously go up on these numbers. We probably look at because we already doing by law what we're required to do. So I don't want nobody to get misinformation saying that we're not trying to fund the Mars office. The attorney sitting right here, he can tell you, he can attest to the fact that we already doing way more than the bare minimum. We doing way more than the bare minimum. looking at these numbers see it went up and i would make a strong suggestion that we go back down to that 79 and if they need any other money they come to us with um they come to us and show us the need for the money and just versus versus us just putting it there show up why do you need that money so we can ask the questions because if you asking the city to up the money that we've been giving you show us the justification show us why i think that's fair so i'm asking this council so let's go back down to whatever comfortable whatever number you guys feel comfortable with i'm all with it but that's that was that was my thing i'm sorry that's why i mentioned

I don't really know what type of But I just want to make sure, just going forward, that this body, from what was told, because we paid this man $100,000 to tell us the stuff that he told us. So I just want to make sure we don't even know how to find this on us. And then also, too, I don't want to, because we just made sense and I heard it properly, I don't want to hold nobody to, like you said, let the administration do what the administration do. So... You guys are the administration, but not really the challenge. Speaking on behalf right now.

Yeah, I mean, you look at this budget, Mr. Smith, I actually didn't want to face it because a lot of that stuff that I was computing and calculating and what should have been calculated then is not in here. So, no, no, no. What I'm saying is, if I'm looking at the numbers going up here, but If I use the formula that the previous administration used, it's going to be more than this because we're not segregating out for utilities and space. We probably did phones or whatever. But I guess what I'm saying is when you look at the overtime, we don't have any control over that department once we give them the money. We give the person the money and they spend it as they will. I guess what we need to try and do is make sure that we give them the money. I'm not saying it's not use appropriate, but I'm just saying that we should get something from that office showing the revenues and the expenditures. necessary for them to operate and if you just just draw a numbers out of your head that's not a good way to practice business I really don't think I really don't sit on thing my council was legally are council okay I really don't think my council was

Legally, is his body okay? Yes. This body has to... Let the record reflect.

This body underneath the law has to provide for the reasonable ordinary expenses of the marshal's office. That was the change in the law in 2024. It was the 2025 law. that heads into that, that you have to have ordinary, reasonable expenses in the marshal's office, which caused that big debate over what it is. There is a lot of what your elected LLAs and auditors deal with. They deal with things like, hey, have they submitted their audits? And that's what they look at. From an audit standpoint, yes, they're out of compliance for not having the audits, but nowhere's in that Louisiana law does it say that you as a council get to not fund them. You still have a statutory duty to fund what is reasonable and ordinary. And where that came from was a Bossier case. It was a Bossier case. Obviously, the Bossier is Shreveport. There's a Marshall's office. They got the budget. Court, the Supreme Court said that, hey, you don't, all you have to do is provide them space and stuff like that. You don't have to provide ordinary reasonable expenses, kind of like the court system was. So they had the next year in 25, they had the statute amended to where we just don't have to provide specs, we have to provide operating expenses. Now, as a practical standpoint, from what I hear you saying is that, hey, you come to us each year and tell us this is your operating expenses, but we don't know what your operating income is. So we're just working on what we give you. There ideally has to be some income coming in and y'all want to see from them, hey, what the income is and what are you getting in addition to what we give you. Because as Mr. J. Green said, once you allocate that number to that subdivision, that person, they control their own budget that is not voted on by the council. That's fine. And so generally speaking, the order of preference of how that works is that you would ask for a budget, they would submit a budget request to you. You would take that budget request based on the line items and things or the details they give you, and you would scrutinize it and you'd say, okay, I see why to this dollar figure, let us go through and see if that's ordinary and reasonable amounts. And then you would vote on what is ordinary and reasonable.

So now, Ricky, for a budget perspective, I mean, I don't know what you're looking at for us. I don't know what you're looking at, but I guess, you know, with us, you know, as Ms. Angela said, and the board said, you know, overtime, if somebody happened to do overtime, they had to do it in Seattle. Right. My amendment is $8,000. Now, for what the administration sees, figure out what we need to give. You know, whenever the administration let us know, we can sit down from that point. But my statement was different from that $8,000 overtime. Yeah, I got that in the government.

What we give that money to them is their money. But he also said in the same room,

you something so you'll be able to analyze it and see how much you want to give how much you are able to give or what do they actually need we haven't been presented anyway so how can you ask us to pay based on something given to somebody else we haven't received let's bring out the saying we cut this down in certain areas don't, there's no justification for increasing. I've not seen it. You projecting something, I haven't seen it. Nobody from the office presented anything else. I'm gonna find next year, but I haven't seen anything from the office this year.

And we haven't gotten anything in regards to that affidavit that Mr. Jones was talking about. Because I mean, when you go to legislative office, So it's not going to pull up in your reference. I said there was that affidavit that's required that hasn't been filed in quite some time. And that's one of the things that I wanted to reference in regards to documentation. There is none. And this budget is just based on continuation of the current budget. Continuation.

I guess we could save for here.

Because a lot of it's been dealing with group insurance and all that other stuff. When you itemize it out, it's pretty much standard. So my thing is, why did you increase the 79?

That was basically just purely the projection of this current year. Because there's no five-year actions for that. Because I gave one line item just like appropriation lump sum, I think maybe a couple of years ago. And then this past budget was based on what it looks like now. I guess that's my question.

There's other stuff that's out of our control, like insurance and all of those. We want to continue this. like the Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and all that stuff. Y'all got to think that way. The group insurance and all that, we can't do anything about it. But I think we need to stick with just what you said. You said rejection. I think we'll be safe to continuously do it. Let's just go back to the 79s and take out that overtime and leave everything else the same.

Yeah, the 8,000 is coming out already. So you want to reduce from 80 to 79?

They won't do. I'm looking at somewhere. About 80?

Yeah, 80. It's 80 now. But you did on your amendment. You put in that 8,000. Let's keep it at 80. Did I put that at 80?

No. I didn't put that. It's 80. I didn't put it at 80. Okay. We're going to make sure.

Okay. I'm telling you. So you're well aware that we don't want to see 80.

80 is in the budget. I didn't put, I eliminated overtime. I didn't add it to that. Because I told y'all the one, and Councilman Green kind of poked me in that. I said the only one that was extra was Marshall. But in fact, the police department That was the only one that was extra. So I just cut that.

With a lot of the changes that's been implemented and all the other stuff that we city got going on in the Marsha's office and stuff, we should be able to decrease that, hopefully next year. Because it'd be like, I think it's the second year that's been passed. Mr. Jones, how long since it's been passed and yet that was mandated that we point out i believe this is the third year going on third year whatever so let's do the third part so just so everybody knows next year we're going to require that the office provide us debt to justify whatever cost that they can incur and if not then be well aware as chair i'm going to recommend that we give to Mr. Jones and we do the bare minimum.

Councilor Layton. Okay. Well, I'm probably speaking out of turn now because I was just going to ask that our marshal submit to us a report about her office revenue. The chairman said next year.

I'm just making recommendations. Yeah.

You know, I think it's an excellent idea. No, I would like to at least see a report, you know, pretty soon. She's out seeing something. She could submit a report just to give us an idea of the revenue that all this is producing.

I'm looking at just overtime, capital so what 20 a year maybe 15 16 and then you got the other boards how many other boards that they do security for that they have to be here did they be yeah they be a zone i'm just kidding i have no idea i'd be a big meeting they come along

and historic zone and city council. We have a lot of them.

We don't deal with the parents' school system. No, we don't pay them. The school board pays them for that.

And then when they got to go out sometime and serve, they can't catch people during the day and they try to hide and they go out and have a fire. I can see the person. I'm just trying to get the check. That's true. All right, that's about it. Bill Daniels on that. Did y'all get anything else on the motion?

Let's move on. We got airport public works. We did the fire. We did police, park and rec. Members, I'm just going to see which ones y'all have questions on in regards to the remaining ones we had. All these are pretty straightforward. I think we had a discussion already about public works and park and rec. on the previous meeting. We never really got into, again, that was quick. The airport, well, you know, it's 147, which is 11% decrease. The municipal center is 107, which is 72,000 decrease.

um we did that finance we did that last meeting i just want to retread questions that y'all have already done because those are uh because i remember

We had questions about, and I re-answered the question from Mr. Doty before that you asked. I think it was in finance. So it's just whatever questions you have, because I don't know what we covered and what we haven't covered. Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about. We're going out and waiting until we get to it. Right. I don't want to belabor if y'all didn't have any questions. So I'll just say, at this point, we've kind of hit everything except airport, municipal center, and I'm talking about the course of all the meetings. And because Marcy Marshall was one, we didn't get everything else. So what did we do about? Everything that I put out over time, I zeroed out. Yeah, I don't see that on the. So you didn't you didn't insert it in order.

And you put it into 201. Yeah. See, that's why I don't understand. Because the budget increased almost $200,000.

Yeah, we just went through that. Yeah, that is streets, cemetery, garage, Yeah, what was the, I'm sorry. I'm blank. Patrol. Yeah, I think that's fine. And then part of that are vacancies and some of the employees that were on the books that are not on the books that still had placeholders for salaries. We had some people that were out on extended, I won't get into medical stuff, but those are all those employees.

Did we do that? When did you do it? We did it last week. Yeah, we did. Oh, we were talking about today.

No, no, no, no, no. No, today we talked about it because I think you asked it in finance. I was like, Mr. Doty asked and I gave the number. Somebody, I don't know. Yeah, I know. Somebody asked it. I think I might have taken one next. I thought maybe I missed them. No, I didn't want to go over something that we retread unless you had something specific because we hit that before because me and Mr. Doden had a long conversation. But again, I can say whatever questions y'all have, let's do it.

We got questions.

I don't have a mark next to line 282. What do we do with that?

282.

No.

282, those are part-time. Those are not a reduction. Those are part-time. Red Park Regulation has two part-time employees. 282.

And then maybe 95 back?

Let me finish that. Two that are historically there. We added three part-time coming up this fiscal year. So they're, what did I say, five part-time. Those are five part-time positions.

282. 282.

Yeah, those are five people for that one.

Question, point of information. Are people applying to work at the City of Asheron?

In a position.

In a position, like actually on the streets. So how many people have retired?

Like five, five people. Okay. Yeah, five people.

And we got- Public works? Yeah.

Okay.

So you know the- You go to the street,

like probably seven, but they go to street ends of the parking lot. Full-time, full-time? Full-time. Okay. Because, you know, the sheriff, not the sheriff, but the prison, they pulled all eight of their workers, so we just bounced back from that. Yeah. Why didn't they pull? They said, they don't want to do no more business. Well, they got it. But then when they told them, when they got it, he leased it there, you know, and said, But, you know, what they're doing is they put the workers in, send them to school, but we have them in the assembly to mail them the more money they make, the more they pay. Maybe just to mail.

That's the big thing. I mean, you got something to do with the administration. I don't know who that is. I mean, employees. I know Mr. Dota was asking this. I'm asking this for a reason. I'm looking at the budget. Mr. Smith had that, didn't you?

I had Mr. Smith with that. Yeah, we have. Mr. Smith had that. Oh, you got it too? He got it. That's what I want to talk to him.

was going to cook what i mean yeah you want to pull this gift ain't doing no no but he's supposed to be doing i don't think he's doing a plug-in number am i right mr that's right so mr mayo should be the one that you're giving me yeah i mean yeah okay what i have is uh approximately without my customer approximately uh 30 employees total and you got um hold up you said 30 right all right

Is that with the new hires? There were five new hires. That includes that. Now, this may be off one or two. Okay, you said 30? 30, right. So, two in building and maintenance, three in cemetery, two in animal control, Ten in streets, three in garage. And we have some summer workers as well, which I don't think that's not part of the 30. The mayor hired eight summer workers, six guys and two young ladies. Divide those up, three in parks and rec, and streets. Now the total amount, I got 10 FTE, is that right in the parks?

Parks are right, total? Parks, no, no, no. All those are going to, park recreation, all of those are going to have two full-time and five part-time. Rest of those are going to, are being put into footworks.

These are the 25, 800?

okay i guess my my first thing is i'm excluding it i'm talking about when you say you have 30 workers right 30 in this department the i missed out tell me it was approximately okay guess what

And do you know how many we budgeted for?

Well, that includes the five that we just hired. So what we budgeted for, I'd be able to expand it.

It's an additional four that you got the Public Works Director. I don't know why something's wrong with the tool here.

Yeah, hold on. HOW MANY DID YOU BUDGET? HOW MANY PERSONNEL DID YOU BUDGET? YOU SAID YOU GOT 30, RIGHT? I'M TRYING TO SEE HOW MANY WE BUDGETED.

HOLD ON THE SCREEN. I THINK I CLOSED MY SHEET. What's my HR report? What's my HR report? My HR report. Oh, that's funny. How many?

About 32. And that was with five vacancies plus the... The three individuals that are in a long-term disability, there are three positions that should be converted into vacancies because when they, their salary is still on the books, just in number only, and they can be converted into full-time. So that's going to make up that. Okay.

Let me go slow.

How many? 30. 30 is working. So how many did you add to it? 32. Plus with the program, there's 32 jobs.

So we're just too short. Plus the, I call them vacancies because the names are still there until that happens. So I would say another five. Even though I count them not as a vacancy, but I count them the same. Yeah, because they're still there. They're still there, but they're coming off. Right. So, those two vacancies, and then plus two, I guess, budgetary vacancies, and the public works.

So, let me know this. So, if you got 30, and you say you budget for 32, correct, but you got five, that's awful with it. they actually can still count the same. It's three. It's three. It's three. I'm just looking at the numbers. And you included the public board staff. Yeah. So by all assumption, we should be on the first step. Yeah, well, two, you know, yeah, should be.

He said 30 and it's 32. But we're directly on a vacancy.

That's a true vacancy. That's public works in all the public works that you just gave. The reason I asked a question, I mean, you budgeted for it, and that's probably why they're talking about this overtime. I want to go real slow. So if you budgeted for 32, and the mayor got a summer program that you're gonna have 15, where's the money from? It's in the regular salary. Right. But if you budget it right, you wouldn't have that much money because you wouldn't budget, because we didn't budget for 15 extra people.

We budgeted for those eight weeks for those people. We budgeted for eight weeks for 950 eight weeks for 15 people so that that's that's probably not even a salary for one thing so it's in the budget so it's not 15 people for 52 weeks it's eight weeks and then the first week that it starts so i mean it's i don't care if it's for three days you're missing my point it's in the budget

So are we at recreational? I don't know. But you got a question, Mr. Green? Yeah, I was going to the next. I think that you guys voted.

Yeah, because that was one of those categories where we had, again, just time got away. We had mentioned developing the food truck park. And that was some of the funding that we set aside to try to develop that. We won't have time to do it this fiscal year. So that's gonna get dramatically reduced just because we just didn't have time to put it together. So that's something that we'll work with the council once we get to the point where we got some mock-ups to do and put a price to it. And then that's something that we would come back to council. I'm sure we're not gonna be able to do it for the $30,000.

No, no, no. I thought you was asking about the recreation. I was asking about 281 and 282. 281 is $55,000. 282 is $95,000, which gives you a total of $150,000. hundred fifty thousand and the reason i was asking because well what line are you i'm sorry i thought you thought something else 281 282. yeah the same recreation 281 282. yeah and we we projected this thing at this end of the year 290 000. so that's 100 right because of consolidation all right yeah that's the people that's important they're talking about this corner yeah yeah yeah

Because they all going to be one street apart from the street and grounds crew. And they're going to take the public works record and they take care of all the grounds and all the streets. So those positions just got moved to public works. So you got four. That's why you only have, you know, that $50,000. That's two employees.

But we did. So we did. We did. Yeah, unless you got, you got another, all right.

This looks great.

Page six, line 237. Are we all ready?

No, you already.

I didn't say already. We already talked about this. Did we talk about this?

We did. It was 07 this morning. Yeah, I don't know. So we ready to go to minutes for seven?

No, we ready for the, we not, so for 201, page 521, we, We're not increasing the budget by that $45,000. We're taking out that $45,000. Because you definitely see, because you added it back. You got it on here, the amendment, page 5203, delete zero. But then at the top, you got page 5201 to insert 875, which means you deleted it, but you put it back in salaries. You're just going to delete this.

just the overtime and again for the ones this doesn't mean the employees can't have overtime which is in this particular line yeah it goes back to just the regular sentence i mean yeah because it really wasn't so uh it's whatever y'all want to do it's just whatever we can uh you want to delete that But it would look like they spoke on a regular basis.

All of the overtime is supposed to revert back to the regular setting. And I think with 45,000 there, I'm getting number five to delete and insert. It's still the same number, but you're

That's it about point information.

I know we normally, um, economic development money. Is what is going to happen? It's a 7.

It's.

so you used to be no public working on reparations no there are parts of rec that we moved over to public works because they the mayor's consolidating uh different departments So they're going to be working, instead of separating, they're going to work all the city facilities, parks and grounds and streets. They're going to work as a big one unit. So instead of separating between cemetery, park and reg, street, they're all going to be combined into public works and they're going to be one crew. And the public works director is going to deploy them as they see fit to cover the stuff that they separated to. So, you know, these people, they're going to take care of the cemetery. They're going to take care of the parks and the streets. They're going to work on streets. They're going to work on drainage. They're going to work with the public works director, tell them to go. It's more efficient to have them in one big crew than to have them separated because if you just take care of the cemetery and you've done the cemetery, what are you doing with the rest of it?

Oh, no, I get it. That's all they've been told. Yeah. So on 201, the projected spending of 514, is that included? What was the line on? 201. So is that included?

Yeah, that's all of the positions that were moved. They got all in one category. That's the 32 that I was talking about. All that, that's in there. Yeah, so that's in the 514. See, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's this year. OK, that's not what I'm saying. Yeah, no, no. Yeah, that's not what I'm saying. We just . Yeah, it's going to be somewhat skewed, because the projected, the proposed is the consolidation. You see what I'm saying? That's the consolidation. It's all in the consolidation. That's why Park and Rick went from what it was to the 55, because those positions went .. Yeah, I see. Yeah, yeah. It's all the same money, it's just .. Which is more efficient to do with that forest management of your human resource.

That's what I was looking at. Yeah, that's what I did.

Yeah, because I see that if you look at, as you look at recreation, it's still a curve.

I have a request. Line 160. I know we are Morehouse Humane Society co-sponsors. I would like to up their budget by $5,000 if we can get that is line item 160 but they did they do a whole lot if we possibly oh we can do tell me mr green took the 10 i mean we can put the 10 there and keep the budget balance

what other funding do they get besides us i don't know nothing about the amazing society

irrelevant what i'm saying if you don't require the city marsh to do the same you can't pick and choose i'm asking what this is they strive on donations they have fundraisers but i think they run to our power so to ask a question i have i have no idea what is it going to be is it going to be

salary we're going yeah we're going to give it to a salary operation that's the check that goes to them yeah and that's how it always been i don't know i don't know what they do with we send the line item they send over invoices you send it to them so we really don't know that you like they out they utilize in the total

It's been on the books for a long time. I'm not sure where it originally came from.

It's just one of those continuations. It's one of those things y'all been paying for for years. I have no idea. I don't know. They have Walmart and different places to donate.

If someone come up and hit you, you're talking about

See, the martial law, you won't mandate it. She show up the reason that she needs the money. I think it's.

Yeah, they, they aren't revenue producing department. Yeah. You gotta be, I know there's a difference between revenue producing and donations.

Well, we, we, we, we.

So I'm not sure.

So I concur. I mean, y'all can vote on all of them.

Yeah, I'm just saying. Y'all can do them separately. I'm going to run down the amendments. I don't know if y'all want to do them all together. One at a time is whatever y'all want to do. When we finish. Just putting it over there to the side.

Yeah.

no i got it marked down but i mean i can run through all of them at one time that's that's what i thought it's whatever the council wants to do all right so this presenter It's whatever. We've been bouncing around. Whatever counts. I don't know what questions you have. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

Whatever questions I have. The questions I have will be for what we're doing right now.

I've got a point of information. Say your name. When you just say, how many folks we got at the humane society? Oh, I don't know.

We got maybe one employee. Hit a dog. So, It's two, right? Two, yeah. Yeah, but they paid in public works.

Yeah, public works. I'm going back to public works. Okay. I'm breaking down the numbers again. Yeah, public works. Yeah. So another question, point of information. Do the dog, do the person in the teenager side, do they clock in? Are we, do we, are we, who oversees that person?

Mr. Winfield and Kyle. They actually work with the city.

They actually work for the city of Nashville. They actually have a time clock, clock in, however you want to do it.

So we're responsible 100% for that person.

Mm-hmm. Yes, sir.

Okay. Okay.

Uh-huh. Do y'all have anything on the municipal center? Police department? All right, that's it.

How are we doing it in the municipal center with the funding, the revenues?

Are we including that tax? The hotel? And then, of course, you know, you get rental.

Yeah, the questions on the budget before we get into the members.

All right, members, I'll pass up a set of amendments to addition to those. Amendment 1, Amendment Line 89, Mr. D Green, I said it would be deleted and inserted and put 748, 1,150. We'll go back to what was originally proposed. and it's deleting line 91 to zero. That was amendment number two, Ms. Lyon, 91 to zero. Amendment number three, 145. I'm trying to keep it balanced. That number can be zero. Which one? Amendment three. All right. Amendment number four, 175.

You said page four. Amendment three is page four, line 145. Yeah.

Yeah, I was balancing the budget with all the amendments that I had, so. Y'all can keep it there or keep the zero. I was just bouncing, but I didn't want any percentage change. Okay. That was my next question. When you're making these amendments, are you putting it back to the general fund or are you reallocating to some other department? I reallocated because I wanted to balance the budget. No, no. I'm telling you, when I proposed the amendments, I did that to keep the variance at zero. Was it off? No, from the overall budget, so that you don't have to have 5% concern one way or another you didn't have. So that was the easiest way to do it, just when you reduce it, put it somewhere else, keep it balanced. You don't have to do that. I did that because that's just my practice. When I balance the budget, I keep it balanced. That's just my practice. That's my practice. You don't have to do that if I say you can reduce it to zero. It whips over.

So what did you move the $55,000? Did you pay this on whatever? $455,000. We're talking about line 145, right? That's why I was concluding. Line 145. What'd you move? Line 145 was zero. This is a 145 on here. That's why. Line 145. 3, page 4. Yeah, page 4. What did he say? He said... page four line 145.

Yeah, it's zero. What I did when I produced something, I put it in another category to keep it balanced. So I put it there because the proposal budget was zero. So y'all don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. You just put it to zero if you don't want to move it anymore. Yeah. I'll look at this one. How do you read? Oh, you look at the proposal, but the 945, column I, and see where we are.

That's all we see. On here, you got 145. This was on page four. You see, you got amendment number three on our form. We got page four on 145. Page four, line 145.

That's miscellaneous. What are we talking about? Column I. Right, because I deleted the next line item, which was the marshal's office. I deleted the 8, and I put it somewhere. If I'm going to do something, I'm going to put it somewhere because I want my number to stay in variance of 0. We don't have to do that. I said y'all can put it at 0 if you want to. It doesn't really matter. Whenever I make journal entries, I keep it balanced. It's a long program. I'm not trying to have anything that's not balanced. I don't care if the revenues exceed expenses. It has to stay balanced in what I do. Just because that's just a rule of thumb. So that way it keeps you straight in my book. So I always have it balanced. So whatever adjustments I make so I don't forget. Because if I practice doing that, then I may do it on the expense side. And then it's really out of the way. So if I'm going to reduce something, A, I'm going to move it somewhere else, make the net zero. We don't have to do this.

You don't have to do that.

But it's my practice. And y'all don't have to do it because my practice is always going to keep me out of trouble. So here again, that's whatever the council wants to do. We do zero. So let's let's let's let's put on each one of these independent. so we don't have to have this issue. Maybe number one is midline 89, insert and delete. We'll actually keep it the same. In the book, that'll be $748,150. The most important. I think the most, that line might be $748,150.

All in favor? In the vote?

All right. Number two, page three, line 91, column A, reduces deadline line to zero. I have a motion.

I have a motion. Second.

I'm making zero.

Second. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Aye.

I have number three, men's line, page four, line 145, column E, insert and delete, and that is zero. So moved. Second. Second. All in favor? all right maybe number four minutes like four i mean page four live uh what what's it what's that five columns all right motion by councilman page four line 175 column i and delete insert that that line to be zero to zero you got a motion on the floor i think second by council deegering all in favor and opposed motion carries member number five page five five one oh For 201, call on high, delete and insert. That number should be $870,000. In a motion.