City Council - Special Meeting

uh and then once the public meeting adjourned you go into the specialty so uh mad pro tem members uh we uh can start the uh public hearing item number one on the public hearing doc uh yes agenda to consider levy an additional or increased military without further voter approval or adopting the adjusted bill rates after reassessment and rolling forward, putting rates not to exceed prior year maximum. So at this time, there's public hearing, public comment, I guess, public can come up and make comments in regards to that. Yeah, call, let's take a little call. Let's take a little call and see if this is cool.

Take a little call. Ms. Hempel, 7, District 8. Here. Mr. Henry Doty, District B. Mr. James Green, District C. Mr. Derrick Green, District D. Mr. Howard Locke, District C. We have a quorum for the public hearing portion of the agenda.

At this time, the public hearing is open. Anybody who wishes to make comments regarding this is free to come forward and make comments.

Okay. Mr. Bradford.

I'm already been informed.

Okay. I wasn't going to scoot on normally. Okay.

All right. Just want you to get the hearing is now closed. If there would be a motion to adjourn the public hearing.

I second.

All in favor? Aye. I pose here. You're there. You call me to order. Okay. Oh, roll call for this.

And it's happened. District eight here. Mr. Henry, district B here, three, district C, Mr. Green, district D and Mr. Power, block, district E here.

Well, we thank you for the day that you've given us. We thank you for all your mighty works and wonders. Lord, I pray that whatever you do in this meeting, that you will get the glory out of it. Lord, I pray for our hearts and our minds that we may steer clear, that we may be clear

Can we get a plug to come in?

you can come up to me i think that of course i see you number eight here the discussion proposed 26 27 physical that general budget and tax budget someone said that right so general sula When will that budget be available for public view? And when will it be posted? You know, how will we be noticed once you do it? This is a discussion, I guess, tonight. Once you get to the discussion, are you going to post it for the public to have it?

I'm going to take up his time, but I'm going to give all the information. I don't want to take Mr. Brett's time.

Okay.

That's all I couldn't have. If you'd like to tell me now, I appreciate it for my time. If I might be leaving.

You can give me the time.

Should I give you the time?

We're going to post the budget starting Monday. June 1st. It'll be available for views.

We'll post it at the official journal.

The first consideration of the council will be at the regular meeting in July.

And we also have the first public hearing on the first proposal. OK. If I'm understanding right, it'll be posted June 1. I can come and get a copy. I mean, we'll do the copy anytime after June 1. You can pay for a copy if you want. Well, I thought you were going to post a copy first.

Yeah, I mean, if you want to look at it.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you want a copy, you can pay for a copy. Yeah, I can look at it. Or maybe get a copy if you want to do that. That's a secret. And while we're having a discussion, I would like to speak with counsel. i would like to speak to council about maybe considering that this is a 26 27 budget that maybe we can find some fun to find youth create some jobs over the summer food that's not concerned but if we can i know money tight everywhere we go but if we can strap some type of funding into the budget maybe high 25 years for six weeks before they go back to school i think that'll help but we have several organizations trying to work with our young people And I think that, you know, we all need money, they need money, and that may cut down on crime. I like for the council to consider that they can find the funds to do this, you know. And I think we'll be doing more. Thank you, Mayor, and thank you, council.

Anybody else? On that kickback of what George had said, summer program if we can get one up. Appreciate you for that thought. Awesome. Announcements. I'd like to thank our very own Mr. James Green, Councilman James Green, Councilman Doty for serving in our country and all the other vets out there. And we also have June 10th day on June 13th will be Saturday. We're planning on having activities in the gym, basketball, and softball on the fields and just enjoying. So y'all come out. Any more announcements? All right, we'll move to five. Resolution 26-2135. Does everyone have a copy of the resolutions?

What I was going to say was, is those resolutions 26.2135 and 26.2136, those resolutions over the year that we were, the previous year that we were here, I heard many comments from others about, hey, we'd love to see that rate adjustment category line, and then what the 26 rates would look like. So you have that resolution, and you also have the 26, 21, 36.

That resolution has the rate adjustment But we listed all 10 of them because on previous years when we were doing this, people said, hey, one listed 10, one listed six. So we made them match. We showed what the rate adjustment of each resolution would do. One states the same, one shows the adjusted rate.

So that you can have that year by year comparison of knowing what all our rates look like.

Councilman Doty? Yes, Your Honor. Mr. Jones, the one particular .

Do we have, is this money from the village, is this gonna go into the actual sewer use fund, or is this money the general fund, or how will this money be allocated to?

So generally speaking, sewer funds, give you an explanation of all these millages. These millages are what are right back to our bonds. Our bonding is based on it. Our sewer bonds are paid out of our sewer bonds. And if I'm incorrect, I'm just going to speak up. The sewer millage goes to sewer operations, which goes into our sewer fund. The one that indicates a general fund, the top one, that would be something that would go into our general fund. That would be bonding based on our general fund collections and proceeds.

Is there a... Is there a number that you're looking to bring in from each one of these, or is it already out there?

Correct. There is a number that each one of these villages is designed to bring in. That number is tied to the bonds that are related to it. So bonds are like loans. You get a set amount from that loan or that bond. the millage is designed to repay back that amount that you've loaned. When the millage is not sufficient to pay it back, that money would then come from probably some other fund or general fund, and it's in violation of the bond contract. For the banks lending us money based on that millage, based on this, we agree that we will collect or the mortgage payment or the loan. So the reason why there's increases is, or rate adjustment, is because we're collecting lower than what is required to pay the loan back. So that comes, if you don't collect enough to pay the loan back, then you're in violation of the loan terms. I'm sorry, can you repeat that? We're currently not collecting enough to pay the loans tied to these rates. So what happens is, is by law, they go through, they look at it and say, this is what you would have to collect to be able to pay the loan note that you agreed to pay. The reason why this goes to the state is, is because on all bonds, I'll call them loans because it's easier to think of them as loans. The state is co-signed with you. If you default on your bonds or your loans, that's interchangeable term. then that can affect not only your city's rating, it affects the state's rating. So the state mandates and the loan terms or the bond terms mandate that you collect enough money to pay the notes.

If you don't, then you're in violation and you can actually have your interest increased.

It hasn't happened to us, but we're going on year four where we have not increased. Yes.

Mr. Jones, just for the record, these were already approved by the voters. We just haven't been rolling them up year to year. So this is nothing new. We're just increasing the state of flow. I just want the people to understand this is nothing new. This is something that has already been approved by the voters. We just haven't rolled it up like most municipalities have. So I just won't, you know, you're saying that we, we, we're trying to be compliance with the law, but just for the record, it's citizens voting in the city of Bastrop for these millages. We just haven't been rolling them up. So this is nothing new. It's not like we coming up, texting a new text. This has already been on the book. We're just rolling them up so that we can be in compliance with the law. And so we can have money to operate the city.

These villages were all voted on by the voters. They all pass by majority votes and. It puts the real burden on the council because y'all act as administrators. The owner said, hey, we're in agreement. We're willing to pay this. We want to do this. But they put the council, the city council as the person who oversees to make sure that there's enough. Right collected to pay the notes and so. All that is occurring is that you're performing a function that is mandated by law that you collect to do it. So although a tough vote, it was voted on by the voters. It is just something that is clerical that y'all are doing. And during my time here, at no point have we had village on the voter ballot. These things were done a lot of times years, 15, 30, 40 years ago. And they've continued for us.

Thank you for the presentation. We were talking about how much money was each one of these villages going to bring in. Do you have that number or is that just something that can't be determined?

It can be determined if you actually look at the notices on the ordinances that originally came, the resolutions that came out. There's a notice that went out to the public that was advertised, and it was advertised at least 30 days in advance to show that the total amount of adjustment would increase the overall collections by 30,000, which would bring it to equal It would bring it to so the overall amount of adjustment is just going to increase 30 spread across all these villages. If you have an idea, so. Mills 1 middle is 1 dollar for every 1000. So, to give you an idea that when you add up. These rate adjustments. You are looking at, that's 33, that's 45.65. So you're looking at 55 cents on every thousand dollars. That's what you're looking at. You're talking about a 65 cent adjustment.

Okay. Again, I'm just, I want to be, I want to be clear. Is there, is there a number that we have already, that we're going to receive? Yes. I took all the numbers.

The overall amount of millage that you will receive based on these adjustments is $2,726,970.20. What is related to the increase, that 65 cent increase?

$30,434.94. So out of what is ordinarily

$2.7 million paid in millage that's received by us, it will cause an additional $30,000 to be collected.

One last question for now. The sewer use, the millage for the sewer system, Are we gonna, I know we had talked about it once before. Are we gonna pay any money like admin fees or anything out of the sewer use fund?

So the sewer use fund has been discussed. And I will tell you that currently, previous to this, this year with administration, the contract servicing of general funds, which is why you saw a large surplus in sewer funds. That contract should be paid out of sewer funds because that is servicing your sewer system. So after this year, you will have a realistic view. You won't see this big surplus in sewer and wonder, why do we have a surplus but our rates are still up? Why can't we decrease our rates, which is the most frequent comment that is asked of Well, that's because when you go to decrease rates, you have to look at what is the cost to administer the sewer. If you looked at what we were saving each year in that fund, the leftover surplus in the sewer use fund, you think, hey, we should be able to decrease. We have $500,000, $600,000, $700,000 still in there. What was happening was that when Viola came in, they repaid it with the general fund, not the sewer fund. are now paying the biola contract out of the sewer fund so after this year you will see for one of the first times actually how much does it cost to administer our sewer system and then we'll be able to determine and look at things to see if there is uh the ability to have a rate study to see if rate are rates where they need to be so that that has been mr smith and and the administration america have worked hard mr jay green with the finance committee have worked hard

the monies that we have in the sewer use fund now, right? Okay, and to add this on top of it, the millage rate. Okay, so we're paying Biola, we're gonna be paying Biola out of the sewer use fund, right? Correct. Okay, so we paid about, what, 1.4 or something like that every year. So in, let's say in three or four years time period, We've got $9 million now. And this is just a number. I don't know what the actual number is, but I'm just throwing that one out. We've got $9 million now. If we pay $1.4 million every year out of the sewer use fund for Viola, that's going to decrease that fund year by year. And then we still have to use, we have to pay for a project container that comes out of the sewer use fee as well too, right?

Correct. Let me answer that. Because we discussed that. I had the budget prepared for you to do that. You got to understand, look at the breakdown of what funds the sewer use. We charge our citizens a sewer use fee that we collect from people's water. And we also have bond proceeds that are attributed to the funder. So any spending that we would spend More likely than not, it's going to be money on sewer projects, which the bond money is for. So it's not for it to hoard and to keep in the bank. It's to be used for sewer projects to upkeep our sewer infrastructure. So the money that we charge our customers in that sewer use fee is more than what and just the sewer use that's paid, that's collected by peoples. And then what's attributed to the actual fund balance, which I don't have balance sheet completed, but I have it for when the budget is posted Monday, goes towards that as well, because all of that sewer costs. But we're not paying, in a sense, what you call administrative fee through bond proceeds. If you break down the budget and look at it, if you want to match it up like this, we're basically paying it out of the fees collected as opposed to the bond proceeds, if you want to look at it in a macro sense like that.

The only reason why I pose that question is because Again, we were paying out of the general fund, right? So now we're going to be paying all of that out of the sewer use fee. And that number is going to continually drop every year. And that's just by order. That's not going to encompass any projects that we may have to pay out of that fund. So how do we, at some point, project is going to come up because i think the last thing we got going on is that uh 400 000 that was a capital uh outlay project right we only uh had to manage 100 000 but residents right so again my question my question is how how long is that money uh gonna last uh

in a super huge fund because again if you're paying a million and something every every year how long is that not getting uh going on to the extent because if you if you do those numbers we collect 1.9 and then we paid 1.4 so we got down to 500 000 that's considered to use cash because that's what we took the fee so we got fund balances over nine million dollars it depends on what projects we got coming up. But if we only spending, you know, 10 to 25% of each project, that's technically what we have to fund our consumer use. So depending on how many, you know, 25% of a million, say a million dollars if we get a project every year, you subtracting that by a quarter million dollars each year. With a fund balance that significant, it's going to be a while before it's depleted. So here again, that's what the purpose of passing the tax is to maintain the infrastructure. So in the event that we run out or run low and we need to rewrite something, we have the ability to do that because again, you see that you're maintaining infrastructure based on the money that we prove. So it's just a matter of making sure that those projects get identified, we fund them and we complete them.

Again, the question is, they're not posed for any type of other reasons than just getting the best information we can. Because when I ask those questions, you know, we're asking people every day and everybody has a different question about a different topic. So I try to educate myself the best. You know, when we come in here and we talk and we ask questions and we discuss things, I can obtain that information. So when I pass that public sector, then I can get the best answer possible.

And I guess from the front end, I don't know why I was doing that like that initially, because again, you take $1.4 million out of the general fund that y'all could be allocating at other places when you have a specific dedicated fund to carry out the very function that you're having that cost and infrastructure that's directly related to sewer. I couldn't understand why it was done like that in the genesis of it. I don't know why it was done that way. corrected that and moving forward um that's just what we are we can talk about that a little bit more we can get into it so what you have for you is resolution 21 26 21 35 which would be the resolution to maintain uh with no rate adjustment

And then the other resolution that you have before you is resolution 26-2136, which is the resolution that would accept rate adjustments.

Okay, we'll make a resolution that we, I mean, I'll make a motion that we accept resolution 26-2135. Second. Second.

resolution that would keep the rate sustained.

Well, I just asked. She said we needed to accept both of them.

Well, we need to clarify. We need to. Oh, yes. We would have to vote no on 21. Yes, on both of them. You turn to the mic. Okay.

I'll call for a previous motion.

Councilor Locke, can I get a roll call here?

Ms. Angela Patrick, District A. Yes. Mr. Henry Doty, District B. Yeah. Let's vote. Doty, would you vote?

Getting the vote.

Yeah.

Thank you. See. Yes, there is a green district D. And this is the power plot district. Yes.

And for clarity, I have a bunch of caution.

They always advise that you both both of them because. If the 2nd, 1 that does the adjustments does not carry and the 1st, 1 that kept them saying it does, and you don't have a situation where you don't have any. Oh, let me get Mr.

hold on hold on give me one second hey

new resolution 21 uh 26 21 36 this is the resolution that would uh apply the rate adjustments as uh i would note that rate adjustment fire department number three is a point one two rate adjustment although it's a point one one and the thing i've notified miss holmes that we would amend that before.

Which one is that again, Mr. John?

This is the rate adjustment for any fire department. It says on the rate adjustment category line, it says 0.11, which is about halfway down those. It's actually 0.12. We'll amend that to reflect that it's 0.12. It goes from 1.38 to 1.4. It's just the incorrect reflection of the difference in the two rates.

Okay, I'll make a motion. then we accept resolution 26-2136 i second the motion yes mr henry doty district b yes mr james green district c yes mr derry green district e

mr howell with block district e yes okay

um

as it goes to item seven i would just ask that the council so those rates other authorized rates those last four rates on those resolutions are the rates that are not changing i would just ask the council make a motion to adopt those authorized rates did not change

I make a motion to adopt those authorized rates that did not change.

I get a second. Councilor Dowell with a second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? That's good. I want to thank Councilman Locke. I know I don't have to, and Councilman Green for coming today to make this happen. I appreciate y'all. I want to thank all the councilors. They came because we needed them. Let's go with eight. Discussion on the proposed 2026-2027 general sewer and cell tax budget.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'll call 10 members. Again, you have a proposed budget for this sewer use, sales tax. It's pretty straightforward. not a whole lot of changes regards to the whole um total budget revenue side is 2.5 million dollars um and but the expenditures are also 2.5 million dollars there is a a um requirements of $386,000 to come out the fund balance, to balance the budget for this year. So there'll be a net, it's about $386,000 to kind of give you an idea of the rate that the fund balance may or may not decrease because a lot of that depends on the interest collect every year. So I would probably say anywhere from $250,000 to $400,000 it will decrease its product to be expected.

Mr. Smith, did you have a copy of the proposed changes? For the sewer? No, not for the sewer, for a genital. You said the discussion was proposed.

Right, proposed. So I don't know if y'all have any questions about the sewer use. Any members? Mr. J. Green, do you have any questions? All right, in regards to the sales tax, again, this budget is pretty straightforward, pretty routine as it always is. We have about $2.6 million of revenue. match 2.6 million dollars expenditures um there is about a little over a million dollars of funding coming out the uh fund balance uh and it's mainly to fund these uh capital projects so any questions about sales budgets All right. So again, to go back to the general fund budget, I think we went through every, somebody took my foot. I think the committee meeting went through every, I think, department, I did, in the updated budget, I did rule, made the city marshal a standalone department. I took it out of the administration as previously contemplated. So again, we plan to post the budget and advertise it in the official journal beginning Monday prior to be open to the public for 10 days, the 10th day is the day before the next regular council meeting, which council meeting, we have public hearing in regards to the budget proposal. And at that point, we'll go into what I call regular order to where the council, you can consider the budget. Again, at that point, you can make amendments, you can mark it up where the council sees fit. If you attach, I put a document here that you can kind of use in your preparation for any changes that you want to make. Just a suggestion, I just put that together to kind of aid you in your process if you wanted to. So typically how this goes, I'm pretty sure just by recent history, it's never been really done like this because I don't think that you really had a regular order before. But the administration budget is proposed, it's put together. We're going to announce it. public will make comments on it during public hearing. And at that point, it's on the council to review, make adjustments, and ultimately adopt. At that point, you'll be put on the clock. You have to pass the budget by the end of June, by June 30th. So at that point, you can take the budget up and consider that whole meeting, or you can take up parts. and you can schedule a meeting every other day if you wanted to, because it'd be a 24-hour notice to post it until y'all go through it and put in a posture for final passage, and then y'all pass. So that's the process that we are in. Again, we did make a couple adjustments, because the mayor did want to create some part-time positions for the summer program for the youth that mainly came out of the access that Madam Pro Tem that you identified that was in professional services. So I reduced that and moved that into part-time positions mayor is working on uh setting that up and trying to decide how many positions he wants to create with that number of money so we can count back into the number of uh part-time student positions based on that number um and again we're going to regular order the budget is proposed by the administration for consideration for the council uh at that point you know y'all on the clock got the budget as is the June meeting, or you can take your delivery process and you have to call special meetings between that meeting and June 30th and set the budget up.

I saw that it has been a finding on past the budget. So, you know, We're going to be transparent and work together. If y'all see something that you don't like in the budget, we can adjust it and fix it and get this thing passed on the fly. Councilman Doty.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Smith, let me begin by saying I wouldn't say a deep dive, but had to go back and balance some of the department against what was on the personnel report. If you go, let's see. I want you to follow along with me.

Just hit me with a line and page number. Yes, sir.

It should be going back to page 10 of 11. That's the last page. That's where I'll start. Okay. For regular employees, you have a salary of $725,000. Okay. Did we budget for all 12 police slots? The reason why is if you go by what's on the personnel report, again, let me back up one quick second. That's why I was asking about the organizational chart because there are some jobs that are attached to the city or any organization that are essential and necessary to function no matter what's going on out in the environment. With the 725,000, was I went by the personnel report and I got all of the fire salaries and those salaries from the fire from just those 13 people we have working now was $701,000. And so I know we have a spot for 12 positions for patrol in the police department. So if you match What's on the personnel report? All the personnel report does is show you what we have on hand. I can't see if we have slots that are not filled. Again, that's why the organizational chart is more important. And I know we discussed that. But again, this is in going back and looking at it two or three or four more times. The salary data is $725. personnel personnel report is you got seven patrol. You got four uh four uh dispatchers and then you have a chief and assistant chief. Well those other five slots of the twit that we that we did last year uh they're not they're not on there. I don't see how I don't see how uh we're budgeting uh for those extra five slots because it's supposed to be 12 patrol period.

What you're not calculating, Mr. Doty, you look at line 335 and 337. I broke salaries down into regular employees and I counted for the overtime. Because what happened during the course of this current fiscal year is that the positions that were originally contemplated in the budget weren't filled. So to compensate from those positions not being filled, officers had to work overtime. So in the event that the chief, he's not here, you know, had tried to resolve some of the staffing issues, we will have it in the budget because we won't be paying officers time and a half. We can replace that $215,000. And I don't know what the average salary would be because if you fill positions, they could be entry-level or could be somebody with experience. So that $215,000 is probably enough to fund probably five to six vacancies. Well, I think maybe four to five vacancies depending on when they come in. So you have to look at salaries in totality to do that because that's one of the things that, that's the reason why I broke it up to see if we can track this because we want to be able to not spend money in overtime, turn those, that overtime funding into permanent position. So the money's there. It's just I slide in the whole time because it's based on the trajectory that we spent this current fiscal year and years in past. So that's the answer to your question. That's where the funding will come in. for those additional positions. But again, the chief can explain to you his plan for us moving forward and filling positions. So that's where money will come in.

So the basic, one of my questions still would remain, how do we, if we don't know how many slots we are, that we're supposed to budget for. And then we put a salary number expense out there of $725,000. Again, I had to go back in. I had to do a deeper dive to realize that those extra, not extra, but those other five slots were not budgeted for. So if we're not budgeting for it on the very top line of where the actual salaries is, Again, as proposed to overtime, I guess that's the way to do it, but I would just assume if we were going to do it like that, because again, let's say you fill those other five spots and they're incoming and say they're $25,000 right there taking out that $215,000.

And then you make an adjustment and we're going to have $215,000 in overtime. No, we need it because those positions are filled. Again, I think the chief addressed that during the course of this fiscal year. He wants so many shifts and I think it's three officers per shift. Again, he will be able to tell you that. I can just recall, I think he wants Is it four shifts with three officers per shift? And some other kind of structure with that. But again, this is the same level of funding that was in this current year's budget separated because we want to be able to track overtime because we're hoping that the chief will be in a position to recruit, fill these full-time positions so we won't need to spend $200,000

don't feel those positions and we have to spend it in overtime because those officers have to do the work okay and then that's why we put it if we don't feel those positions or leave those positions uh budget for those positions off the top uh and we don't feel then you still have 200 200 over 200 over time you're looking at again if i if i was in the department and i was running the department and i saw the only thing that i don't we spending it anyway i'm just i'm just breaking it out so we can monitor it so i'm just not i guess i'm trying to understand

the distinction without a difference because I usually, it's usually just rolled all in together into one. I separated these because Mayor wants to monitor overtime.

So it's not that they're going to look at it and say, oh, we got all the overtime to spend.

We're spending overtime because we're short staffed.

relying on the current officers that we have to work so again i'm trying to i'm trying to answer your question in a way because i don't fully understand it let me let me please let me let me see if i can clarify this a little bit further if we've got 12 slots patrol slots what i would like to see is those 12 slots budgeting for if i only see seven slots budgeting for And then we have to make up for it over time. Then again, to me, I would think that we would want to make sure that from the very beginning of the budget year and the process that we budget for another job. Remember, we cut 12 spots. And again, this is just not police department maintained. I saw it throughout other departments as well. But I'm starting, just starting with the police department I just don't, I don't understand where, why we would not budget for the whole 12 to begin with and then work with a number, work with a smaller number on overtime, whatever you wanna do, because again- Because you're gonna overstate your budget, Mr. Doden, and we're not doing that. Is that what you're supposed to budget for?

No, we're budgeting what we're supposed to because in a perfect world, we don't want this much overtime because we want those permanent positions I just separated it as an accounting thing so we can track it. Because if separating it bothers you, Mr. Doe, you could just add it together in your mind and say this is salaries for everyone. Because it's just an account entry.

Again, you go back to the organizational chart. If you're going to prepare an organizational chart, then how would you put that on there? Would you put those 12 slots on there or would you leave them off? If you're doing a chart, and that chart is going to list the amount of jobs in a specific department. So what do you do if you do an organizational chart? How do you list or not list those jobs if they are in the budget?

You list them as vacancies. And if those vacancies are filled, then we're not going to spend $215,000 of overtime. The scenario that you just gave, you fill those positions and there's 175,000 to fund those, you subtract that from 215. And when we do the budget adjustment, because those positions are filled, you will have the same total salary down in those three columns. It's going to be the same. It's just going to be allocated differently because we're not going to need to budget $215,000 in overtime because those positions are actually filled. because if i didn't break this out with the dollar if you add the 725 plus the 215 that's the total salary for regular employees that includes those vacancies there's no there's no uh i don't want to say this there's there's nothing preventing the chief from hiring three officers for the four shifts that he wants because we have the budget for it's just broken down these three different categories uh because i do think they have one part-time switch over um and take that out to uh 725 because i think they have one uh she's part-time i think is the um the detective so that that change is going to come but it still will come it's going to reduce to 725. so again mr doughty this is just to look at what the current trends were because we don't pace to spend seven hundred and twenty five thousand dollars regular employee salary and then 215 or overtime because we don't have the staff and staff police staff at the levels that the chief wants so the current officers are having to work overtime we have to pay those time and half at least so it's more expensive to pay overtime that's why it's this incumbent on position because again we're going to be right at the same number it's going to be balanced and at the end of the year we're going to spend over 200 000 in overtime because we haven't had no spot to feed because it's easily to fill them and just make a journal entry moving that money from that category to regular salaries when the only reason why i'm separating this though is to track Because I could have done it like it's always been done. Just dump all that whole number, which is going to be almost a million dollars in salaries and just leave it like that. And what it would tell you then? It's the same thing that she would come up here and tell you. This is my current staff. This is what I want. And this is what it would be. It would be the same thing. It's a distinction without a difference.

Again, you have to make a big, big, big, big thing out of it. If you did it like that, But back to the, again, this is just talking. If you do it like that, and you went back to the whole way of doing it, and you put both of those numbers together, and you operate out of the million-dollar price, then tell me how would you track that as well, too? How would you know who worked overtime, how much overtime you worked? There could be a report that's generated, right?

Yes, I got the numbers.

Okay, so it's basically the same thing. The only thing I have an issue with is not budgeting for the correct amount of stocks that we're supposed to pay.

And the other thing I'm telling you that this administration does not want to fund vacancies because essentially they're already funded. They're just in the form of overtime right now. So I'm not going to fund or we're not going to ask the council to fund regular salary overtime and then the vacancies that we hope to fill because you inflate the budget. And if you don't have revenue to match it, then you're going to deficit spend for no reason, at least on paper. So that's why we're going to amend the budget every quarter, because this is another tracking mechanism for accountability. That's all. It's the same number. It's just I'm showing you what that number represents. It represents overtime and . And if the chief is able to fully staff his office, his department, then those salaries are going to come out of what I earmarked as overtime. Period.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay. And I expressed my concerns about this when we were talking about the budget. Two weeks ago, rule of thumb, you should never calculate overtime into your budget. It's supposed to come out of the salaries you use to staff. You should base it always around just your monthly needs. So I am not in agreement with separating the overtime from the base salary. If it comes out of the general amount that we spend every month, if we are doing quarterly meetings like we're supposed to, we will see where we are with the overtime. And when we see where we are with the overtime, time, then we might have to regroup, revamp, and try to figure out another way. We need to try to push and have a job fair or something, but it should not be separated. It should come out of the monthly salary. And I understand you said there's a tracking mechanism, but there's work to tell you how much overtime you have used every pay period.

Councilman, uh, councilman, uh, information for Mr. Jones, uh, mayor, most specifically you, this police chief is not here to answer. When we passed the budget last year, we gave the county, we gave the police officer the reign. That's bringing, we need to, we need the chief here and we need resident supervisors here so we can address certain issues that we thought we had resolved by the last time around. That's why we need to gauge last year to this year. When you talk about overtime, I kind of understand what Mr. Smith is saying when he looked at it, and I understand what Councilman Teffin is saying. When we're looking at the overtime slots, he's saying... Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Okay, well... what the problem is is the chief said that last year that we was going to be up to certain numbers because we gave we gave grace and from the looks of it they calculated that oh let's say the overtime is gone is when you calculate the overtime i think what he's trying to do is separate it out so you can see how much overtime you spent and you can just equate that to how many officers that he could have hired without providing overtime. When you look at the breakout of overtime and you do the base average, you say, hey, we spent X amount on overtime. That could be three regular police officers. I think that's what he's trying to, that's correct. I think that's what it's all about. Councilman Doty, when you say about the 12 slots and you look at it, I kind of agree with you. When you're looking at it, you budgeted for seven slots. But in actuality, it's 12 slots. But you're saying you're not thinking for those slots are really not filled. So you're not going to budget for those. So you're saying every quarter you're going to come back in case the chief happens to hire another person. And then you're going to subtract it from that. And you just keep going up and up. Each quarter, hopefully he'll get to 12, but we have been at 12 and maybe last three or four years. So you're not looking forward, you're looking back as to what has been budgeted for the last couple of years. You're doing a snapshot in the past versus the future. That's how you're drawing up your budget, point of information for you.

and that's that's absolutely correct because again these are actual numbers not aspirational things and it's fine to be aspirational but like councilman green just said we had hoped to have 12 slots three each year but that's not the reality so if we don't budget based on the reality then i'm not sure what we're doing because here again this is what the reality is And I'm making sure that y'all have real time information to the extent that I can give you. So we can track this not only from an administration standpoint, but the council standpoint, because you should be able to know this because again, there are situations, like I say, the chief can answer those. And again, this is just a discussion. We're going back to the regular order. So when y'all considering the budget for adoption, of course the department Right. And again, if he knew that y'all had hearings on the budget and you had public safety for that day, he will be here.

Point of information, officer. Not to point anybody out. I'm talking about everybody that has a contract with the city that the department did. When we get ready to do the budget, when we get ready to down to the crunch numbers, we need to have everybody to come in for us and state their case as to why you need X, Y, and Z. Right. because that's what accountability is about. When you start looking back over what we're spending, everybody has to be held accountable. We need to know why, what services are you providing, and what are you doing? Like Ms. Tappan stated, she's looking at the overtime. Ms. Smith is looking at what they spent last year. Ms. Tappan is saying she don't want to budget that overtime in from last year. She want it kind of segregated out. You actually budget in last year, and it goes to what Councilman Doe is saying, you budgeted for seven because you make it up for that 12. That's an overtime. But I know what you also saying too, if you don't budget that overtime, we probably gonna come up short. So it's a catch 22. But I think each department here, anybody that does vision with the city, They need to come before us and tell us exactly what are you doing to get city money? What type of services are you doing? What have you done in the past? What do you prepare? Are you prepared to offer the city in the future?

And that's why I said we're going to come back to a regular border because I don't think that y'all have ever done it before. Because what Mr. Green is talking about is part of regular order. Because when we put the budget out, that's a proposed budget for the community to get its first look at it. Then when y'all start the appropriation process, which I've never done before, which this administration is giving y'all an opportunity to do, if everything that Mr. Green is talking about, if y'all can set up a scale right, I want to. So, okay, the first meeting, we're going to look at it, and then we're going to set a series of meetings after that to consider the budget. And we're going to take administration in this day. We're going to take public safety this day. We're going to take public works this day. I have which way you want to set it up. Whatever the regular order looks like is whatever regular order y'all set. So here again, we're trying to get back to regular order. Administration has put together the budget proposal. And it's a proposal. It's not for y'all to rub a stamp. It's not for y'all to say, go ahead, man, do this. We're going to facilitate our responsibility to enroll. We're going to put it out there, have it advertised, make it available for the public. And then y'all start the appropriation process. How that looks? You can get input from the administration. Or y'all can come up with it yourself. I like what Mr. Green is talking about. Y'all can separate it. Y'all can take up departments on this day and you set whatever schedule you want to set. We can do that in the finance meeting before the next record meeting. Y'all can set appropriation schedule, how y'all want to look at it. Because again, any adjustments that y'all want to make, the council will have to approve it because that's part of the appropriation process. I know it's new. because it's never been done. And we're trying to work with you because we're doing our role and y'all role is to adopt the budget, mend it, mark it up, do whatever you want to do with it, set it up, find a passion. The only thing I ask is passion before you're on 30.

I got one other point of information for you, Mr. Smith. One other point of information. And I like when you break into overtime because that's what I said. We want to speak to the department heads, and to anybody that's responsible for managing their department. Because when you show us the overtime from last year, you break it out. We want to go look and look as to why did you incur overtime. So it's accountability. When I see that you spent X amount of dollars on overtime, why? We do a spot analysis and see why. Why is it costing your department so much money in overtime? Is there another way that we can go about reducing overtime? So I'm kind of glad you're breaking it out. That gives us a snapshot as to how the department is ran and where their efficiencies are. And we can look and ask them about overtime, whether it's personnel or just operational costs of the department. Let's bring up a string. I'm saying we really need to speak with those persons that are in charge of each department that we, that we, if we identify a problem, we need to speak to the person that that's directly over the department. So we can get some insight as to how the department is being ready and what can we do to cut costs.

because this administration is not going to have dual budgets to where, okay, we got a budget. So what we can do accountability oversight and not give that to you all. Cause we could have rolled all this up. Now y'all always done it. Now support the regular order process and let y'all figure it out. While the administration is able to have these numbers to track everything, to make sure.

I understand. I understand. I really do. And I'm not having a problem with the way it's broken down. That's not an issue. How it was done in the past and all of that, all of that, all of that good stuff, bad stuff, that has no bearing on what we're trying to accomplish here right now. No bearing. If we say we're going to work together, then let's forget about what happened. a year ago, two years ago. If we say we're gonna operate, we're gonna work together, then that means that there's gonna be some discussion topics that may go a little bit longer, then that's a lot of hype. So again, what happened a year ago or two years ago, I'm so far from worried about that. I'm worried about what we have in front of us. That's it. So let me ask this question. Do we have... Do we have, in each department, do we have the number of employees that are in each department? The exact number of employees. Do we have, like the fire hand, how many employees, if you're allowing, since Chief Williams is here? No, no, no, no, no, no. This department, again, I'm asking, what I want to know is how many employees do we have in each department? That's a number that ought to be readily available and started off the top of your head. I don't care what day it is, what month it is, what year it is. A department head ought to know how many employees that they have in their department, right? So if they know, then the rest of us should know.

That would be addressed in a very normal way. We're not erect. We just have questions.

put it out there because we're in a discussion.

That's good to say. You want to know this when you get to doing that department. That's noted. The chief heard it. We heard it. You should have an answer when you do regular order because if you don't, you should have a problem because you've already asked for it and that's given to you when we take it up when y'all start the appropriation process.

If it's not, then you hold those people accountable. These were put on here for discussion, right? These topics were put on here for discussion. So we're in order with what we're doing, right?

Right.

Okay. Just want to make sure we're in order.

I have one more comment, Mayor. I will say we did have a pretty stringent process last year of going through the budget, line item by line item. We had a lot of long meetings, a lot of discussions. We amended a lot of line items on the budget. So this is not the first time that we've done this. We spent hours on hours. doing it. Bishop Bradford can attend today and Mr. Brennan. So we did, we did have this process before.

What's the process?

Stages. This is on a different stage. Oh, oh, oh. I'm just saying we've done, we have, last year we did, we went through all the stages. Y'all did that one, right? It's not YouTube. We've done it before. No problem at all. Anybody else? No discussion. Next little gentleman.

Anybody got anything else? I need a motion to end this. All the best.